PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES - United Kingdom Parliament

119 Universal Credit
9 MAY 2012
Universal Credit
120
[Chris Leslie]
housing association, but that is ending, so there is a
great deal of anxiety about the continuity of housing
entitlement.
As I have said, 15% of council tenants do not have
access to the internet. In fact, 15% have no access to a
bank account and a further 15% have only a basic post
office account with limited functionality. Therefore,
nearly a third of social tenants might not have mainstream
banking capabilities available to them, yet we expect
them to move in fairly short order to that monthly
budgeting arrangement. Hundreds of thousands of people
up and down the country, particularly those who do not
have bank accounts, are massively mistrustful of the
banking system—they are fearful of the overdraft charges
that can hit them if they are unable to plan or manage
their cash flow over that monthly period.
It is with those points in mind that I ask the Minister
this: is there any flexibility in the roll-out of universal
credit to allow weekly or fortnightly payments for those
who absolutely need them, or is she absolutely firmly
sticking to monthly payments for everybody? That is a
crucial question and I would be grateful if the Minister
addressed it.
It would also help if the Minister could give us a
better sense of the dates for transition to the central system
as we move away from local authority administration.
There are currently 380 localised IT systems in local
authorities up and down the country, largely to deal
with housing benefit. They will be phased out as we
move towards a central system, with one IT system at
the Department for Work and Pensions and one at Her
Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. What resources have
been available for the transition for councils that have a
residual responsibility for some activities over the period—it
will be 2017 before full roll-out?
We are starting the process of passing over responsibility
to the DWP in October 2013, but some councils will
process housing benefit until April 2014, and full migration
will not happen until 2017. How will councils be able to
do this? It will remain a significant burden for local
government, and local council tax payers need to know
whether Ministers will meet those costs. It is not necessarily
as big an issue in my area as Nottingham city council is
a unitary metropolitan authority that has several different
functions, but for some district councils housing benefit
is 25% of their turnover, so it is a somewhat mission-critical
activity. They need to know to what extent they will still
be in the business of such administration. What really is
the commitment of the Government to a local roll-out
of universal credit? Will it still be a local service or will
they shift in short order to that central arrangement?
As I read through the documentation, several secondary
issues arose. What about pensioners? Many are still
reliant on housing benefit, but universal credit is an
in-work benefit, so who will be responsible for the
administration of housing benefit to pensioners? That
is a specific question and I would be grateful for the
Minister’s clarification. Obviously, if local authorities
are no longer involved in the administration of housing
benefit, how will pensioners continue to receive it?
There will be two vast centralised computer systems,
and the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee and
the National Audit Office are already voicing anxieties
about these arrangements. The DWP is moving to the
“Agile” methodology, and Computer Weekly had a report
recently in which it said that a leaked report from the
Cabinet Office major projects authority suggested that
the
“Agile methodology remains unproven at this scale”.
An amber risk rating was attached. Is that the case?
What is the Government’s assessment of the risks of the
change to this system by the DWP? The HMRC computer
system will take a real-time approach to the PAYE
process, but again reports suggest that the timescale has
slipped beyond the April 2013 target. Can the Minister
say whether that is true?
If we are to contract out much of this activity, will it
be sent offshore? Will the work under these new
arrangements be done in the UK, or will much of the IT
or contact centre work be done in India or other countries?
That would be another helpful clarification.
Another important issue has to be the many thousands
of staff who currently work on housing benefit in local
authorities up and down the country. Unison and other
representatives of the work force have also asked about
this. I gather that the Government have decided that
TUPE will not apply to those who work in housing
benefit administration in local authorities. So there will
be a massive redundancy programme in local authorities
and no take-up of those staff in the new, centralised
arrangements. If that is the case, how will the Government
respond to the massive redundancy costs involved? Will
the Government compensate local authorities for those
costs? Can the Minister say how much that will cost and
how many staff will be affected? A lump of money was
set aside at the beginning of the spending review period
for the transition to universal credit. Have the assumptions
behind that sum stayed the same or have they changed?
As the Minister will know, the Opposition have spotted
that she and many of her colleagues are under the
shadow of the omnishambles and that the Government’s
record on competence has already been questioned.
When it comes to universal credit, their reputation for
competence is definitely on the line, and it has to be
proven that they can fulfil their promises. This is a
major risk not only to the Government’s reputation but
to all our constituents, especially the most needy.
9.55 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work
and Pensions (Maria Miller): I congratulate the hon.
Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) on securing
this debate. He is fortunate to have secured such an
important debate.
It is fitting that the first Adjournment debate of the
Session is on universal credit, because the Gracious
Speech today underlined the Government’s commitment
to building a fairer, more responsible society, to supporting
families to do the right thing, to making work pay and
to ending the something-for-nothing culture that gained
a foothold in this country for too long under the previous
Administration. Universal credit is at the heart of delivering
on that commitment.
Universal credit will deliver a simpler and fairer
system, and our reforms will put work, whether full
time, part time or for just a few hours a week, at the
centre of the welfare system. As such, it will extend a
ladder of opportunity to those previously excluded or
marginalised from the world of work. The current