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Page 12 Senate Friday, 21 October 2016 Senator Scullion: Well, they are part of the ILC. In fact, one of the directors of the ILC, I understand, is the director of Voyages. Senator DODSON: There has been some discussion that the intent of the land fund in the ILC may be modified or changed. Can you clarify that for us? Senator Scullion: There has been no suggestion on the public record or anywhere else and there have been no utterances from me apart from a consideration about the advice that has been provided over many years about the investment parameters that are legislated around that. It is probably of less focus at the moment because the general interest rates around the place are pretty poor at the moment, but there were times over the last few years where the size of the fund could have been making a lot more money in terms of where they made the investment, but the investment parameters are so conservative that the levels of interest that have been available are not what the financiers tell us is the case. So we have been having some discussions, but that is the only discussion we have been having around the land fund, and this is in response to a number of people in the financial area that have said that the actual legislative rules around the land fund and how it can be invested should be refreshed and advice sought from financiers about whether or not those are still appropriate. Senator DODSON: So there is no intent to change the purpose of the fund? Senator Scullion: No. There has been absolutely no discussion with me about anything else about the fund ever except for those matters and the notion of land. We have had that extending to sea country. I have had that discussion with you. Senator DODSON: My understanding of the land fund was that it was primarily to assist those Indigenous peoples who were not capable or were not going to pass the test under the native title laws in order for them to get access to a fund in order to buy land to assist them. That is still the purpose? Senator Scullion: That is the single purpose. Senator SIEWERT: Senator Dodson, do you mind if I ask about that proposal about sea country? There has been some discussion at this committee in the past. Minister, have you got a time line for when you might progress that? Senator Scullion: I will allow the organisation to answer, but the reason I brought that up at the meeting is that, since the Akiba case, quite clearly the fund is there to fund people who do not quite make the connection to country, because of displacement. Since the Akiba case, it is my view that those circumstances would now exist and have been shown to exist. If you do not quite make exclusive possession but the nature of the connection is there in exactly the same way—in fact an identical way—that previous investments have been made in land, it would flow then to investments in sea country such as access rights. If you can build a cattle yard, why can't you build a wharf—all of those sorts of connections. Senator SIEWERT: I understand that. When we had the inquiry into my bill, for example, there was strong support for expanding it into sea country. How close are we to seeing the program? Senator Scullion: There is a question that exists about whether or not you need legislative change about land. Is it 'land'? Well, that is our word, but it is a continuum. I understand we are still seeking some advice about whether or not that change is required. Senator SIEWERT: Okay. How soon is that? I am trying to look at how soon the changes can happen if they can happen, whether they are through a regulatory process for the definition of 'land' or through a legislative change. Senator Scullion: I will seek some advice on that. I wanted it to happen yesterday, but the process moves a little slower than that. Mr Eccles: It was something that was discussed only a couple of days ago between John, other members of the board and me. We are taking it offline to work together to map out a process. Senator SIEWERT: Okay. Senator McCARTHY: How much annual payment does the ILC receive? Mr Maher: We are legislated to get a minimum of $45 million a year. We are budgeted to get $51 million for this financial year 2016-2017. Senator McCARTHY: How is that money distributed? Mr Maher: I might pass this to the COO. Ms Lindsay: The money comes directly from the land account. The land account is a fund that was established to fund the ILC in perpetuity and to provide a secure and reliable income stream to the ILC. The FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Friday, 21 October 2016 Senate Page 13 legislation actually requires for $45 million indexed in 2010 dollars to be paid to the ILC each year annually in October. Senator DODSON: Was there a 10-year sunset on that? Ms Lindsay: No, in perpetuity. Senator DODSON: Someone must have negotiated something worthwhile! I think in the second reading speech there was a 10-year sunset on that. Ms Lindsay: The 10-year sunset was to establish the fund, so there was an appropriation from government for 10 years to establish the fund. Senator DODSON: So you are still getting access to that capital in the account. Ms Lindsay: Absolutely. Senator DODSON: Okay. Senator McCARTHY: You were talking about Voyages there, but would you be able to let us know a little bit about your involvement with the NCIE and also National Indigenous Pastoral Enterprises? Mr Maher: Both of those organisations are wholly owned subsidiaries of the ILC, as is Voyages, and they are governed by a board where two directors from ILC are on those boards. One of those directors will be the chair of NCIE or NIPE as well. They are subsidiary organisations. NIPE, for example, manages assets over 14 properties across Australia. NCIE is our National Centre for Indigenous Excellence, based at Redfern, and is an organisation where we educate and train Indigenous people and non-Indigenous people in catering, in tourism and in other areas as well. We also run social services out of that asset for the local population. Senator McCARTHY: What is the employment ratio here for Indigenous people with NCIE? Mr Maher: The employment rate? Senator McCARTHY: Yes. Mr Maher: The employment rate is 50 per cent. Senator McCARTHY: And the total employment? Mr Maher: Eighty people in total are employed and 40 of those are Indigenous. Senator LINES: Has that percentage gone down since it opened? Ms Lindsay: No, it has consistently been around 50 per cent. Senator McCARTHY: Can we go through Indigenous employment and overall employment at Voyages? Mr Maher: As of 31 August, Voyages had 381 Indigenous employees. That represented 36.1 per cent of the employment. Senator McCARTHY: Was that 36.1 per cent of the total workforce? Mr Maher: Yes. Senator McCARTHY: What is the number of the total workforce? Mr Maher: It is 1,056. Senator McCARTHY: Given that it is on Anangu land, would you be able to break down the percentage of Anangu? Senator DODSON: Chair, I would like to raise a matter. As a native title holder, I have an arrangement with the pastoral company of the ILC in Broome. I will not ask any questions in relation to the ILC, but I do understand how some of these matters work. CHAIR: Fair enough. Thank you, Senator Dodson. Senator McCARTHY: I just want to know the percentage of that staff who are Anangu. Are you looking at those figures? Mr Maher: Going off the annual report— Senator Scullion: I think the question is about local people, probably from Mutitjulu. Senator McCARTHY: Yes, that is right. Senator Scullion: Can we take that on notice? We will find that out in a few minutes. I suspect it is under 20. If you are talking about Anangu outside of the Northern Territory, I think the number goes up by about that same quantum again. It is still quite low in comparison with the other Indigenous employers. Senator LINES: Is that 20 per cent? FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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