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Page 42 Senate Friday, 21 October 2016 Senator McALLISTER: The brief is dated 12 October 2015. Its title goes to the report by the Northern Territory Children's Commissioner into an incident at Don Dale. You were aware of that report at 12 October 2015, were you not? Senator Scullion: Indeed. It has been provided. Senator McALLISTER: Yes. Thanks, Chair. CHAIR: We will now suspend until 1.30 pm. Proceedings suspended from 12:46 to 13:31 CHAIR: We will resume questions under outcome 2 in the general category. Before I hand back to Senator McAllister, I should note, I know there are a number of senators who have an interest in this topic and want to ask questions. Perhaps, Senator McAllister, if you have got a good block to ask and we can then move on. We can certainly come back to you. However, if there is a good block and we can move onto others, that would be appreciated. Senator McALLISTER: That is no problem, Chair. Minister, you held a press conference on 26 July in Canberra. You were asked by the journalist: Did you get briefings on those Northern Territory inquiries and, if not, why not? Your answer was: Well, you know, you don't know what you don't know. No, I didn't and I don't know why I didn't but the fundamental of why I didn't was that it is in the jurisdiction of the Northern Territory. Do you stand by those remarks that you made on 26 July? Senator Scullion: Absolutely. Do you know what I was asking questions on, Senator—and that is the important thing, isn't it? I was asking questions about the 7.30 report material. That is what the media conference was about. Senator McALLISTER: Minister, the question you were asked was: did you get briefings on those Northern Territory inquiries? And you said: No, I didn't and I don't know why I didn't … Yet, in your evidence today, you have confirmed that, as early as October in 2015, you were in possession of briefings from the department that set out the fact that the Northern Territory Children's Commissioner had made a report on horrific activities at the Don Dale centre. I ask you again: when you were asked, 'Did you get briefings on those Northern Territory inquiries?' and you said, 'No, I didn't and I don't know why I didn't,' do you stand by that statement? Senator Scullion: I had read neither of those reports at that time, which I have acknowledged. Senator McALLISTER: Had you read the briefings though— Senator Scullion: No. Senator McALLISTER: because earlier in your evidence you said that you had. CHAIR: Please allow the minister a bit of an opportunity to answer the question before asking another one. Senator Scullion: I am, as always, trying to be as helpful as possible, Senator. I had acknowledged that I had not actually read those reports. When I made that utterance, I had not read the report but I had seen the 7.30 report, how shocking it was and I had not received any briefing on that—that was for sure. The briefings, the conversations and what I had seen in the media had nothing to do with what we saw on the 7.30 report. Senator McALLISTER: Minister, you weren't asked whether you were briefed on the 7.30 report. You weren't asked whether you were briefed on Four Corners. You weren't asked whether you were briefed on anything except this: did you get briefings on those Northern Territory inquiries? That was the question from the journalist, and you said no. How can you reconcile that with the evidence you have provided to the committee today? Senator Scullion: Because the conference and the context of all the questions were around the graphic brutality— Senator McALLISTER: So you misunderstood the question. Senator Scullion: Senator, if you will let me finish. CHAIR: Please allow the minister to answer the questions. FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Friday, 21 October 2016 Senate Page 43 Senator Scullion: which was in stark contrast. What I was portraying was that I had not seen any of this before. We had not heard of any of this before, and I had not had briefings on any of this before; I certainly had not. There have been plenty of others around the place who wish they had, but I had never received any briefings at all that matched any of the graphic circumstances that we saw on the Four Corners report. Perhaps clumsily, that was the point I was making then and that is the point that I am making now. You would try to make the point that somehow in a word here and a word there I had sought to mislead and all these sorts of things. This is very simple. I had no briefings that would lead me to suspect that those matters that we had seen on the 7.30 Report were occurring, and I stand by that. Senator McALLISTER: Minister, you told us earlier today that you had checked your records but you do not have a recollection of asking the department to generate a media brief for you or a question time brief for you on this issue of the Children's Commissioner's report and Don Dale. Have you checked your records? Senator Scullion: No, but I would be very surprised if my suspicion, which I have indicated earlier, that that was not the case, is not the case. But, no, we have not completed checking our records. Senator McALLISTER: Minister, on 3 August you gave an interview with Radio National Drive and you said that you had asked the department back in October to provide some information and it was essentially what was in the media. Senator Scullion: That is right. Senator McALLISTER: How can you reconcile your evidence today that you did not ask for the brief that was generated by the department with the statement you made on 3 August, which was that you had asked the department to provide you information? Those two things are completely inconsistent. Senator Scullion: Indeed they are. Can I just go to their importance. I was speaking on Drive— Senator McALLISTER: On the radio. Senator Scullion: On radio. I can remember I was in a remote part of Arnhem Land standing in a place where I could actually have some coverage. In my mind I know, at some stage, I wanted to say at the very first opportunity that I had had a question time brief. I knew I had read the question time brief and I read it in the media, but I wanted to acknowledge immediately that there was a brief and that is exactly what I did. Senator McALLISTER: But you said that you had asked for the brief, and yet today you say you did not ask for the brief. Senator Scullion: When I say I asked for the brief, my office may have asked for the brief— Senator McALLISTER: You said earlier that you did not believe that was the case. You said you believed it had been generated by the department. Senator Scullion: Look, perhaps I misled Drive. Perhaps it was the department that provided us a brief in any event, but to be fair and frank to Drive I was just simply saying and making the point that we had received a question time brief. Who actually generated that was in a conversation where I was saying, 'Look ,Patricia, to the best of my knowledge' whatever I said 'I think we either asked for one or we provided one'. I did not think that was particularly material. You might not think that and we will later find out today whether that actually came from the office. It certainly did not come from me, but when I say 'I' I mean the office generated a brief. The reason that sparked that was that I was told by my office, 'Yes, we did have a question time brief'—I can remember that now—and I said, 'All right, I will do the best I can do to clarify that,' at the time. Senator McALLISTER: Well, you have either misled the ABC or you have misled this committee on the question of who generated the brief. Is that correct? Senator Scullion: Well hang on— Senator McALLISTER: It cannot be both. Senator Scullion: I have said we have taken that matter on notice and we will be able to get an exact answer. I am just trying to be fair dinkum here. I do not think it came, necessarily, from my office. I did not actually think that it was important at the time to the Australian people whether my office said to the department 'can you get it' or the department said to my office 'can you get it'. I thought this was actually about kids in detention—a really important issue to Australians, particularly to Territorians. That is what I thought this issue was about. You may place importance on saying I misled people, but that is absolute garbage. What I actually said is what I thought happened at the time. Senator McALLISTER: Do you consider being truthful with the Australian people and being accountable to the Australian people is important? FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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