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Page 40 Senate Friday, 21 October 2016 would reckon that is a pretty polarised set of facts. My remark 'piqued my interest' was about the media; it was not about the facts—and that is what I said. Senator McALLISTER: What do you mean by the media? Senator Scullion: When I said, 'It didn't pique my interest,' I was referring to the media, not the matters of fact around the children. Senator DODSON: But somehow or other the media had woken up and this terrible thing was upon us, despite a royal commission. Senator Scullion: I am just saying that I had been in a situation, and no doubt you had, almost of shock of seeing what we had seen on the Four Corners report. In comparison, the matters that were in the media at the time did not add up. They did not, and that is why we now have a royal commission. Senator DODSON: I can appreciate how that happens. There was a report—I am not sure whether there was a press release, but there was a report—on 5 October, which one of the officers might recall, where it was suggested that the NT police were investigating the reports of abuse at Don Dale. Were this matter and what had taken place ever reported on in any of the numbers of categories of briefs that you may have had? Were there any charges laid? Mr Matthews: It is possibly an NT government press release or report. I think it probably is referring— Senator DODSON: It is an ABC one. Mr Matthews: I think it is probably referring to investigation by the NT government Child Abuse Taskforce, which is through NT policing. There were specific instances, I think, that are particularly around that set of circumstances— Senator DODSON: In relation to that report? Mr Matthews: Not so much the report, but they would have been through the chain of events through that period in August. Some of those matters, and I think possibly some from prior, had been referred through to the Child Abuse Taskforce, and so in the normal course of events— Senator DODSON: I understand. I am just asking a very simple question. There was a report that the police in the Northern Territory were investigating the allegations that had been raised in relation to the Don Dale centre. Mr Matthews: I believe the background of one of the question time briefs that have been released under FOI notes that the Child Abuse Taskforce is investigating some of the matters of those incidents. Senator DODSON: So you cannot tell me whether there were charges laid or not? Senator Scullion: We can take that on notice; that was some time ago. But I agree, there was— Senator DODSON: It would have been useful if charges were laid. It may have arrested the awfulness that we have been seeing. Mr Matthews: It is always a difficult thing for us to get a line of sight on a jurisdiction's policing matters from the Commonwealth— Senator Scullion: But we will find out what happened to that investigation, if that would be of use to you. Senator DODSON: Yes. Senator McALLISTER: Can I come now to the question time brief that I think we are talking about. Just for clarity, that is question time brief 15/794. I assume you all have that in your papers. Do you recall receiving that brief, Minister? Senator Scullion: No, I recall it being in my question time pack. I carry it down there dutifully every day. Senator McALLISTER: Do you read them before you go into question time? Senator Scullion: I am across most of them, yes. I understand that they are available. Usually, you become more across them if somebody shows sufficient interest to ask a question. There were no questions asked, but I do know they are there, yes. Senator McALLISTER: You had read it. Presumably, you would read it privately before you read it in the chamber. Senator Scullion: Correct. Senator McALLISTER: How did that brief get generated? Did your office ask for it? Senator Scullion: I am not sure. They generally get generated because these are issues du jour in question time. Sometimes you will have a broader question time brief—it might be incarceration issues. Within that, there FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Friday, 21 October 2016 Senate Page 41 might be five subsections. That gets added to and changed, but there are different reasons why they would be generated. If it was a matter that had been canvassed in the media at the time, which it had been, it may have attracted attention from the other side by way of a question. So that is why it would have been— Senator McALLISTER: I am really not asking for a general description about how that function works between you and the department. I am asking: on this occasion, did you or your office request a question time brief on this set of issues or did the department initiate it? Senator Scullion: I did not request a question time brief. That is not usually how it works. Senator McALLISTER: On this occasion you did not? Senator Scullion: You will have to ask the department. If the department can assist, they should do so. Mr Tongue: We would have to go and check. Some question time briefs we initiate; some question time briefs we are asked by the office to generate. There is no indication on the documents of question time briefs how that process occurred. I would have to make some inquiries to establish that. Senator Scullion: I will have to check because the other side of it is whether my office asked, and you can get the answer from them. It is probably easier to get it from us, but to the best of my recollection that will not be the case. Senator McALLISTER: What will not be the case? Senator Scullion: I do not recall my office saying, 'Listen, let's go and have a question time brief,' on that particular matter. Senator McALLISTER: To the best of your recollection, it was not something generated by your office, but you would like the opportunity to check your records. Senator Scullion: Indeed. Mr Matthews: To clarify, in terms of generating them and of the background material, they would be drafted in the department. Senator McALLISTER: I understand. The brief refers to a number of specific announcements, including the Law Council calling for urgent action over the report into the Don Dale Youth Detention Centre. Do you recall that aspect of the brief? Senator Scullion: What was that date? I am sorry, there are so many documents I just cannot get them in front of me. Senator McALLISTER: There are many documents, it is true. Mr Matthews: It is a media article attached to the question time brief. Senator McALLISTER: Do you recall that? Senator Scullion: I can recall in general the question time brief that talked not only about those issues but about those people who were obviously finding it equally— Senator McALLISTER: For completeness, can I confirm that this is the first brief that the minister received on these issues? Senator Scullion: I am not sure if somebody has the chronology. Mr Matthews: That one is, I think, the one that was put up on 12 October as the first of the question time briefs, but, subject to the FOI, as the minister said in his opening statement, the issue around the Vita report was covered in a meeting brief of a meeting with NAAJA on 18 February 2015. CHAIR: I note that we are just about due to break, and I am sure we will be coming back with this issue, so, Senator McAllister, if you are happy, we will resume in 45 minutes. Senator McALLISTER: I have just a couple more questions I would like to ask. CHAIR: If they are very quick, I am happy for you to, but I am sure we will be revisiting this issue at length after lunch. Senator McALLISTER: Can we just confirm that the question at the top of the question time brief—because of course a question time brief anticipates a question in the chamber—is: 'Are you aware of the report by the Northern Territory Children's Commissioner into an incident at the Don Dale juvenile detention centre'? If you had read the brief, which you said you had, you must have been aware that there was a report by the Northern Territory's Children's Commissioner into the incident at Don Dale as early as 12 October 2015. Senator Scullion: Sorry; can you ask me just the question? There was a lot of— FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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