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Page 14 Senate Friday, 21 October 2016 Senator Scullion: No, it is 20 as in the real number. Senator McCARTHY: Twenty people? Senator Scullion: Yes. That is locally in Mutitjulu, but we have another avenue—women, particularly in the domestic area, that come from the APY lands. We are trying to expand that. I will get those numbers in a moment. Senator DODSON: Mr Fry, how successful is that whole arrangement with native title holders and commercial arrangements? Is it panning out across Australia in commercial, environmental and management arrangements? Mr Fry: Thank you very much for that question. As I said earlier, I have had the opportunity to get some quality time and information to look at that particular question. I think it is fair to say that over the last 20 years there has been a very serious acquisition process of properties. In that time frame, as with all businesses, there has been waxing and waning of their performance. As I indicated earlier, the ILC is transitioning to position itself so that it will address that very question so that we can provide further capacity and, definitely, capability assistance to drive the wellbeing of those assets that are acquired and divested for Indigenous bodies. The frame around land is that there was a very pointed recruitment of the CEO, who has a very strong background in that area. Needless to say, the number of hours that we have spent going over this has certainly occupied a lot of our time. I can assure you that we cannot fix it all in one go, but we will certainly make the right steps towards that. It will be on an incremental basis and then exponentially, we would like to think, through this effort these particular Indigenous organisations will start to flourish a whole lot better than they have in the past. Senator DODSON: I think underpinning your opening statement was the notion of some kind of merger within the two organisations. At what stage is that, what are the likely implications, what consultations are taking place and what functions will be incorporated? Mr Fry: Again, I came into the organisation looking at two very large institutions effectively operating as separate silos to each other, servicing the same client, and not bringing their combined grunt to the sort of aspirations and demands and requirements of its client base. With respect to the word 'merger', that is certainly not something that we are seeking. What we are doing is making sure that both organisations continue to operate separately to each other but develop a very highly fluid, collaborative model so that the intellectual property of both groups is focusing on specific matters that may be relevant to both organisations at the same time. There has always been the situation where an Indigenous organisation, if they have had to talk to an ILC and an IBA on a particular project, have flown in from, say, far-flung Western Australia to talk to ILC in Adelaide, then they have to go and talk to IBA in Canberra. It does not make sense, to me, in terms of cost efficiencies and how you do business. Probably in the past year we have certainly ramped up our output to meet with Indigenous organisations in a combined sense. I call it the investor run with the two chiefs, in particular, and we might take specific individuals with us rather than have expertise in a specific matter that the client is requesting discussions on. There is no talk of merger, there is no work in that space. It is no surprise to anyone that the papers that I have given have talked about a shared services structure, which is back-office functions, and making sure that we at least test proof of concept around that before we go any further. Senator DODSON: You are more talking about a co-location? Mr Fry: That is one of the things that we would look at in any regard, because I think it makes really good sense. Senator DODSON: Economies of scale, I can understand that. Mr Fry: If you come to town and you have to go to one office which is on one side of town to talk to the ILC and then you have to go to the other side of town to talk to the IBA and you are constrained by travel arrangements or accommodation, it just seems a little bit strange. Senator DODSON: So the separation of the boards would be retained? Mr Fry: Absolutely. Senator DODSON: What are the terms and conditions of the loan in relation to Voyages? Mr Fry: So there is no absolute confusion on this I will hand it over to John or Jodie. It is probably better that Jodie speaks to it because John, as you know, has only been in the job for the last four months—even though I have a very high opinion of his capability. Senator DODSON: Thank you for your assistance. FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Friday, 21 October 2016 Senate Page 15 Ms Lindsay: It is a $65 million loan from the Commonwealth to the ILC, interest and principal payment from day one. The interest rate is benchmarked to a publicly available published interest rate in the budget system, so it is effectively the cost of funds to the government. The terms and conditions of the loan are that the Commonwealth have taken the same security over the assets as the other financier, ANZ. They have secured the loan through security over the assets of Ayers Rock Resort. Senator McCARTHY: Can you define the assets? Ms Lindsay: Ayers Rock Resort, as you know, is accommodation and a town centre and lots of land. There is a mortgage over the land, there is a mortgage over the shares ILC hold— Senator McCARTHY: How many shares? Ms Lindsay: It is 100 shares in the ILC. The ILC own 100 shares in Voyages. There is a mortgage over the airport lease with the Northern Territory government and a general charge over all assets. That is consistent with the same security arrangements that we have with ANZ, who are the other financier. Senator DODSON: I want to ask about the training packages on the pastoral leases and just how effective they are. Are you getting numbers coming through there? I know in the Kimberley there are a few places where this is happening. Mr Fry: Yes. Thanks again for that question, Senator. I will pass to Jodie or John, or Tricia Button, who might have those numbers in specific terms. Mr Maher: The effectiveness of that training program has been really well received across the top end. Obviously that is where the training predominantly takes place. You will see, through the annual report that has just been released, that in fact employment outcomes through both ILC and land management projects, which include that kind of training, are well over the target. It is 1,000 people. Also the total number of Indigenous training outcomes enabled through ILC land acquisition and those training programs you referred to, Senator, have had a 91 per cent completion rate. Out of 3,014 participants, 2,745 Indigenous people have been trained through those programs and other programs that the ILC itself would run. Senator McCARTHY: And how many of those have gone on to full-time work? Mr Maher: That is a question I cannot answer because sometimes we do not know where they go. A lot of them are employed back through ILC and its subsidiaries, being NIPE, but other corporates do take on those trainees—such as AACo, CPC et cetera. Senator DODSON: Maybe that is a matter you could take on notice. Mr Maher: We can take that on notice and try to get— Senator DODSON: It will be interesting, because you seem to be having good success with the training. The secondary level of that is: are they going into mainstream employment somewhere? I was going to ask a question that has just drifted out of my mind. I will come back to it. Senator Line, have you got one? Senator LINES: Yes, I want to ask a question on NIPE—National Indigenous Pastoral Enterprises. If you cannot give us this answer today, you can take it on notice. I would really like you to tell us what is the balance between the NIPE investments into its own pastoral interests and in southern Australia? What is that breakdown? Mr Maher: I will not tell you in percentage terms; I will take that on notice. I will say that we have 13 properties north of the Capricorn, if you like, and we have one property in Tasmania. Senator LINES: I am interested in the balance of investment between those and what is happening across southern Australia. Mr Maher: Yes, and as we speak we have one in Tasmania. It is very heavily skewed towards the north. Senator McCARTHY: So just to clarify: earlier you said 14 properties. So it is 13— Mr Maher: Yes, 13 across the top and one in Tasmania. That is the 14. Senator DODSON: Mr Fry, I have just recalled the question I want to ask you. We had in the Kimberley, as the minister would know, the development of a meatwork—privately owned I presume. There is no interest that you people have got in it, or the ILC. I am just wondering what the impact of that particular entity now in the Kimberley will have on the properties that Indigenous peoples or the ILC have interests in across northern Australia, given that you have got the smaller operation out at Gunbalanya? Mr Fry: I will hand that over to John to give you a more defined response, but I thank you for that question. One of the things we are doing is looking at exactly what is the best business case model for us. Is it to be solely in live export? Is it to diversify into abattoir production? And the range goes on. So this question, and the other questions that the senators are raising, I am actually quite pleased with because these are all of the things that we FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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