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Page 26 Senate Friday, 21 October 2016 sustainable jobs for people who do wish to take out a home loan and own their own home. So we do give loans in those areas, but we also— Senator McCARTHY: Could you give numbers on notice? Mr Bator: Yes. CHAIR: As there are no further questions for IPA, I thank you very much for participating today. Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations [11:26] CHAIR: I welcome Mr Anthony Beven, Registrar of Indigenous Corporations. Mr Beven, do you wish to make an opening statement? Mr Beven: No, thank you, Chair. CHAIR: We will go to Senator McCarthy. Senator McCARTHY: Minister, I understand from the article that I am looking at that in March this year you requested that the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet investigate a senior official, Mr Anthony Beven, over emails. Could you provide a progress report on where that might be at? Mr Eccles: Matters such as these are handled by the corporate area of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, rather than the Indigenous affairs area. So I would need to get an update and perhaps provide it later in the day or take it on notice. Senator McCARTHY: So you can confirm that that is taking place, Mr Eccles? Mr Eccles: It has taken place, yes. But I would need to check any further details with the people with the line responsibility for these sorts of activities. Senator McCARTHY: So you will be able to provide that to the committee later today? Mr Eccles: I will see what I can do. That will certainly be my best endeavour. Senator SIEWERT: I want to follow up on a particular case. Could I have an update as to where the case of the Ngallagunda Aboriginal Corporation, a Gibb River road property, is up to? Senator Scullion: Perhaps in broad terms. We need to be a bit cautious. Senator SIEWERT: I am aware of that. I also know that it is extremely complicated. Senator Scullion: I have a very clear understanding of where we are at. It might be useful to provide you a more extensive brief if that is what you require. It is quite complex, but there is an end to the complexity. You can get through it in about an hour. There have been a couple of issues. First of all, there were some questions around whether or not a meeting was held and held properly. Senator SIEWERT: Whether it was held and whether it was properly constituted. Senator Scullion: Indeed. Of all of those matters, further meetings have been held and have been reconstituted in any event. So it is a historical fact. We can get some advice on that, but it has no real material impact on what is happening now. The facts are that there is some action in the Supreme Court. That action is around a contractor that had an agreement with Gibb River Station. Senator SIEWERT: Well, it depends on— Senator Scullion: And there is some issue around that. I am not sure that is going to be a part of the case, and Mr Beven can give us some advice on that. I have to say that there is only some contention around that. Before they went to court, in the mediation process, they were provided with some advice from the independent mediator about the draft agreement that was signed. I think it is reasonable to say that despite that advice they have decided to pursue this. That is something that is going on. There is also the added issue that despite how the contractor would think of and put weight to that particular agreement, another contractor, contrary to an agreement or non-agreement, has now been employed and is there and there is some action to prevent them from continuing their work. The issue for the Gibb River people is that this whole Supreme Court challenge raises the spectre, because of the activities leading up to the court case, of them being likely to have costs awarded against them. This is because they have been provided with independent mediation, which they chose not to take on board to that extent. The chunky issues are: if it is awarded against them, the only asset they have—and this is freehold—is Gibb River Station, and that is of great concern to all of us— Senator SIEWERT: Yes. FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Friday, 21 October 2016 Senate Page 27 Senator Scullion: And the remainder of those parts still lie with the Supreme Court. Senator SIEWERT: Okay. What about the action that ORIC is taking, though? And I want to come back to the briefing—I will accept that briefing. Senator Scullion: Yes, sure, and any others you want to have— Senator SIEWERT: Actually, I will resolve that first. Minister, can I indicate my acceptance of that briefing? I would appreciate that very much? Senator Scullion: Yes, certainly. Senator SIEWERT: Thank you. Mr Beven? Mr Beven: We have had an involvement with Ngallagunda Aboriginal Corporation for a number of years now. This started back in 2014, when we visited the community and provided some governance training to the directors. It is a very small community and so we provided some very hands-on assistance to them in how to run their small corporation. Since that time, there have been some disputes within the membership of the community and the corporation, and differing views as to where the corporation should go. As a result, a number of complaints and inquiries have been made to our office over the last couple of years. In March of this year we conducted an examination of the corporation. We flew out to the Ngallagunda community and also to Derby, where some members of the community also live and transit in-between. Senator SIEWERT: Between the two, yes. Mr Beven: The examiners were there in March of this year. We had some difficulty accessing the buildings and documents at the community— Senator SIEWERT: And I understand that there is concern about how that was caused, too? Mr Beven: Yes, that is right. In the intervening months we have been working with the corporation to get access to those documents. We have done that. Then, on 29 July this year, we issued a show cause notice to the corporation, asking the directors to explain why the corporation should not be placed into special administration. The corporation made representations to us as part of the natural justice process. We have gone back to the corporation to clarify some matters they raised in their representation, and those were due on 14 October but, as you would be aware, there have been large bushfires going through the Kimberley and one of those bushfires was on Ngallagunda and Gibb River Station, where the Ngallagunda community is. The community were actively engaged in fighting the fires, so we have given an extension of time for the corporation and its directors to respond to the show cause notice. So it is taking longer than usual, but there are very specific circumstances that warrant that in this case. Senator SIEWERT: When have they been given to to respond now? Mr Beven: Until 28 October, which is next Friday. That is obviously subject to the bushfire and the impact that it has had on the community. But at this stage the community is indicating that it can respond to our request by 28 October. Senator Scullion: I think this is emblematic. I share the concerns of many who are involved in this area about, frankly, the low level of a complete and comprehensive understanding of the consequences of many decisions as a board, including entering a court process where it is likely to have costs awarded against you. We need to all think about how we need to have confidence in ourselves—that in all of those boards we have a trigger. If they are going into something like that, that is very specialist advice. Whilst they had independent advice, I am still anxious about the level of knowledge that is actually required, particularly when it comes down to land that is not Aboriginal land—it is held in another way—that it will go. I acknowledge and I share your anxiety about those matters. I am working with ORIC and I am more than happy to work with you after the brief to see if there are other things we can do in terms of the education and capacity of the boards. Senator SIEWERT: Thank you. Senator McALLISTER: We appreciate that Mr Eccles is going to come back to us about the status of the investigation into Mr Beven. Mr Beven, you have an opportunity, I suppose, to respond to allegations that have been made about you quite publicly. Would you like to do so now? Senator Scullion: I am reluctant to not allow, because it is not within my capacity, but I would say that this has been investigated. We said we would provide on notice an answer comprehensively to that investigation, and I think that is where it should lie. I do not think an opportunity should be provided here for any other things. This involved Mr Beven himself. I think it would be more useful if we allowed the question on notice to be provided FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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