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Page 34 Senate Friday, 21 October 2016 I welcome the scrutiny and the heightened focus on these issues in the public arena that has come about as a result of the Four Corners report. This attention rightly holds the government accountable for how they treat children and young people in their care. I intend to work closely with state and territory governments to ensure that the incidents that happened at Don Dale Youth Detention Centre cannot ever be repeated anywhere throughout Australia. This will include working with jurisdictions on how the findings of the royal commission can be used to inform future reforms across youth detention facilities nationwide. I thank the committee for allowing me to make an opening statement, and I now welcome questions. Senator McALLISTER: Could we get a copy of that? Senator Scullion: I am happy to table my opening statement. Senator McALLISTER: Thank you for providing that overview, Minister. I think you will be unsurprised that committee members wish to talk about the set of issues you have canvassed. I would perhaps like to understand first the circumstances around the screening of the Four Corners report. When did you first find out that Four Corners was intending to screen a program about Don Dale detention centre in the Northern Territory? Senator Scullion: About midday on the day that it was aired. Senator McALLISTER: So there was no advance notice? You had no indication from other sources? Senator Scullion: I had advance notice at 12 o'clock in the middle of the day that it was to be aired that evening. Senator McALLISTER: How did you find out about it at 12 o'clock? Senator Scullion: I am pretty sure it was from my media adviser. I am not sure whether the ABC had rung him or he had rung the ABC. I am not sure exactly how that came to be. My media adviser told me that there was a matter, and that generally the matter was youth detention in the Northern Territory. I clearly have an interest in it. Senator McALLISTER: What did you do then? Senator Scullion: I asked him to ring the ABC and say, 'Listen, I am not able to watch it tonight. Can I have a forward copy? I would really like to see it now.' Senator McALLISTER: What was the response? Senator Scullion: They were not able to allow me to see something earlier than when it was shown on the night. They said that I would have to see it with everybody else. Senator McALLISTER: Did you speak to anybody about the prospect of this program airing? Senator Scullion: Sorry—'about the prospect'? Senator McALLISTER: You knew the program was about to air. Did you speak to anyone in the government about it? Did he speak to any of your colleagues or ministerial colleagues? Senator Scullion: No. All I had was the information that something was going to air about youth detention. That was it. I said, 'Yes, I have an interest. I would really love to have a look at that program. I won't be able to see it when it runs tonight. I would love to have a look at it immediately up-front.' Senator McALLISTER: So you did not speak to the Prime Minister at that time? Senator Scullion: No. Senator McALLISTER: Or the Attorney-General? Senator Scullion: No, nobody. I have already said I did not speak to anyone. That would obviously include the Treasurer and the Prime Minister. Senator McALLISTER: Did you speak to anyone in the Northern Territory government? Senator Scullion: I did not speak to anyone. Senator McALLISTER: When did you watch that episode of Four Corners? I think you said you watched it on iview. When was that? Senator Scullion: I did. It was later in the evening. It was close to when it aired. It was not long after it aired. It was probably an hour and a half or so later. I am not sure what the time was. I watched it on iview when I returned home. Senator McALLISTER: I think you indicated in some of your media comment that that was after the Prime Minister rang you. FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Friday, 21 October 2016 Senate Page 35 Senator Scullion: No. I had a missed call from the Prime Minister. After I had been where I had been, I rang the Prime Minister. It is something you do straight away, invariably. He said, 'I've seen this. Have you seen it?' I said, 'No, mate. I'm going to see it when I get home.' He said, 'Great. Give me a ring when you've seen it,' so I did. Senator McALLISTER: So he rang you. It was a missed call. You rang him back. He said, 'Take a look at the footage.' You went and looked at the footage in the late evening. Did you call him back later that evening? Senator Scullion: Yes, that is correct. It might have been the next morning, but to the best of my recollection I called him back after I had watched it at home. Senator McALLISTER: Was that the only contact you had with the Prime Minister that evening—those two phone calls? Senator Scullion: Yes. Senator McALLISTER: Did any of your office staff see the footage at the time that it aired? Senator Scullion: Yes. Senator McALLISTER: Right. So they had seen it. I think the answer to this based on your earlier evidence is no, but they did not have advance access to the footage? Senator Scullion: Not to my knowledge, no. Senator McALLISTER: I will come back later on to talk a bit about the process of establishing the royal commission, but was that canvassed in the conversations you had with the Prime Minister that evening? Senator Scullion: Sorry? Senator McALLISTER: Was the decision to establish a royal commission canvassed in the conversation you had with the Prime Minister that evening after you had seen the footage? Senator Scullion: I am not going to go to those conversations. I think, as a matter of principle, I would rather not provide the answer to the question about a conversation I was having with the Prime Minister. Senator McALLISTER: Were you consulted about the establishment of a royal commission? Senator Scullion: I was. Senator McALLISTER: Did you speak to any of your other colleagues that evening after you had seen the footage, or after you had received notice of the missed call from the Prime Minister? Senator Scullion: No. Senator McALLISTER: Anyone in the Northern Territory government? Senator Scullion: I did not speak to anyone; that would include the Territory. Senator McALLISTER: Just the Prime Minister, on that evening. Senator Scullion: Indeed. Senator McALLISTER: You mentioned in your opening remarks the Vita review. That report, as you said, was publicly released in February 2015. Was the minister's office ever briefed on the content of that report? Senator Scullion: I think it is useful to preface my answer by saying there are principally three types of brief. There is a brief which is a formal brief, which you read, and you sign that you have received that information as a brief—as all ministers would have. There are generally two other sorts of briefs. Both are information briefs. Generally speaking they are for meetings with people or as a preface to meetings, or they are—as we would know—question time briefs to anticipate questions in the Senate—and for meetings, to anticipate what may be discussed in a meeting. So no, I did not receive any formal briefs on that matter, but I did receive a question time brief. And, as I have indicated in my opening statement, there was a later, exhaustive process that revealed that in the background of a meeting brief with NAAJA I had received some information on those matters. Senator McALLISTER: I am asking specifically about the Vita report and whether you were briefed on that, in any form. To be honest, Minister, I understand the reasons why you may seek to distinguish between information provided to you in different formats, but I think the common understanding of the term 'be briefed' is that somebody who works for you provides you with information about an issue that is relevant to your portfolio responsibilities, and I think that probably encompasses all three of the briefs that you describe. I am happy for you to distinguish between those in answering, but I would hope that you would not— Senator Scullion: Well, the reason I am, Senator, is that the question is that when I said publicly, 'I have not received a brief on the matter,' I was not saying that I had not received a briefing, it was 'a brief'. And that is what I was referring to. A brief is significantly different from a briefing. A briefing is what people would invariably say is when someone comes and visits you and provides a briefing. This is not about semantics, because it is about FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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