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Page 6 Senate Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Major General Mark Kelly, AO, DSC, Repatriation Commissioner Major General Dave Chalmers, AO, CSC, First Assistant Secretary, Commemorations and War Graves Division Mr Tim Evans, Assistant Secretary, Commemorations Branch Ms Alison Hale, Acting Assistant Secretary, Communications Branch Mr Ken Corke, Director, Office of Australian War Graves Ms Carolyn Spiers, Assistant Secretary/Principal Legal Adviser, Legal Services and Assurance Branch Australian War Memorial Outcome 1 Australians remembering, interpreting and understanding the Australian experience of war and its enduring impact through maintaining and developing the national memorial, its collection and exhibition of historical material, commemorative ceremonies and research Program 1.1: Commemorative ceremonies Program 1.2: National memorial and grounds Program 1.3: National collection Program 1.4: Exhibitions Program 1.5: Interpretive services Program 1.6: Promotion and community services Program 1.7: Research and information dissemination Program 1.8: Visitor services Dr Brendan Nelson, Director Ms Leanne Patterson, Acting Assistant Director, Corporate Services and Chief Finance Officer Ms Anne Bennie, Assistant Director, Public Programs Mr Tim Sullivan, Assistant Director, National Collection Major General Brian Dawson (Retired), Executive Manager, Spirit of ANZAC Centenary Experience Committee met at 08:59 CHAIR (Senator Back): I declare open this hearing of the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee. The committee will begin its examination of the additional estimates for 2016-17 with the Department of Defence until 6 pm, Defence Housing until 6.30 pm, the Australian War Memorial after the dinner break and the Department of Veterans' Affairs until 11 pm. The committee has fixed Friday, 21 April 2017 as the date for the return of answers to questions taken on notice. I ask my colleagues to provide written questions on notice by Friday, 10 March. Under standing order 26, the committee must take all evidence in public session. This includes answers to questions on notice. I remind all witnesses that in giving evidence to the committee you are protected by parliamentary privilege. It is unlawful for anyone to threaten or disadvantage a witness on account of evidence given to a committee and such action may be treated by the Senate as a contempt. It is also a contempt to give false or misleading evidence to a committee. The Senate, by resolution in 1999, endorsed the following test of relevance of questions at estimates hearings: Any questions going to the operations or financial positions of the departments and agencies which are seeking funds in the estimates are relevant questions for the purposes of estimates hearings. I remind officers that the Senate has resolved that there are no areas in connection with the expenditure of public funds where any person has a discretion to withhold details or explanations from the parliament or its committees unless the parliament has expressly provided otherwise. The Senate has resolved also that an officer of a department of the Commonwealth shall not be asked to give opinions on matters of policy and shall be given reasonable opportunity to refer questions asked of the officer to superior officers or to the minister. The resolution prohibits only questions asking for opinions on matters of policy and does not preclude questions asking for explanations of policies or factual questions about when and how policies were adopted. I particularly draw the attention of witnesses to an order of the Senate of 13 May 2009 specifying the process by which a claim of public interest immunity should be raised. FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Senate Page 7 The extract read as follows— Public interest immunity claims That the Senate— (a) notes that ministers and officers have continued to refuse to provide information to Senate committees without properly raising claims of public interest immunity as required by past resolutions of the Senate; (b) reaffirms the principles of past resolutions of the Senate by this order, to provide ministers and officers with guidance as to the proper process for raising public interest immunity claims and to consolidate those past resolutions of the Senate; (c) orders that the following operate as an order of continuing effect: (1) If: (a) a Senate committee, or a senator in the course of proceedings of a committee, requests information or a document from a Commonwealth department or agency; and (b) an officer of the department or agency to whom the request is directed believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the officer shall state to the committee the ground on which the officer believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, and specify the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document. (2) If, after receiving the officer's statement under paragraph (1), the committee or the senator requests the officer to refer the question of the disclosure of the information or document to a responsible minister, the officer shall refer that question to the minister. (3) If a minister, on a reference by an officer under paragraph (2), concludes that it would not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the minister shall provide to the committee a statement of the ground for that conclusion, specifying the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document. (4) A minister, in a statement under paragraph (3), shall indicate whether the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee could result only from the publication of the information or document by the committee, or could result, equally or in part, from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee as in camera evidence. (5) If, after considering a statement by a minister provided under paragraph (3), the committee concludes that the statement does not sufficiently justify the withholding of the information or document from the committee, the committee shall report the matter to the Senate. (6) A decision by a committee not to report a matter to the Senate under paragraph (5) does not prevent a senator from raising the matter in the Senate in accordance with other procedures of the Senate. (7) A statement that information or a document is not published, or is confidential, or consists of advice to, or internal deliberations of, government, in the absence of specification of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document, is not a statement that meets the requirements of paragraph (1) or (4). (8) If a minister concludes that a statement under paragraph (3) should more appropriately be made by the head of an agency, by reason of the independence of that agency from ministerial direction or control, the minister shall inform the committee of that conclusion and the reason for that conclusion, and shall refer the matter to the head of the agency, who shall then be required to provide a statement in accordance with paragraph (3). (d) requires the Procedure Committee to review the operation of this order and report to the Senate by 20 August 2009. (13 May 2009 J.1941) (Extract, Senate Standing Orders) Witnesses are specifically reminded that a statement that information or a document is confidential or consists of advice to government is not a statement that meets the requirements of the 2009 order. Instead, witnesses are required to provide some specific indication of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document. Department of Defence [09:02] CHAIR: I welcome Senator the Hon. Marise Payne, Minister for Defence. Good morning, Minister. Senator Payne: Good morning. CHAIR: I also welcome the Secretary of the Department of Defence, Mr Dennis Richardson; Air Chief Marshall Mark Binskin, Chief of the Defence Force; and officers of the department. Minister, do you wish to make an opening statement? Senator Payne: No. CHAIR: CDF, I understand that you do, after which I will invite the secretary to make an opening statement. FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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