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Page 20 Senate Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Senator LUDLAM: Interesting. Does the Australian government support the US in its alleged proposal to bring back the use of black sites, where torture has been carried out in the past, operated by the CIA? Mr Richardson: I am simply not aware that that is the intention of the US administration. Senator LUDLAM: The New York Times obtained a draft executive order drafted by the Trump administration. I might obtain that and table it for you and then we can go into a bit more detail. Mr Richardson: I would simply note, Senator, that the administration subsequently denied—and whether it was right or I don’t know—that there was such a draft administrative order. So you are going to present an article from the New York Times which the administration has already denied. So there is nothing that I am going to be able to do with the article that you give to me. Senator LUDLAM: I won't bother, then. Secretary of State, Mr Rex Tillerson, has likened China's artificial island building to Russia's taking of Crimea. Does the government agree with his perspective? Mr Richardson: On what occasion are you quoting him, Senator. Senator LUDLAM: I think it was during his confirmation hearings, but I can double check if you like. Mr Richardson: Okay. Since then, Sean Spicer, the White House Press Secretary, has made statements. Mr Tillerson himself has made statements and Secretary of Defence General Mattis has made statements. Indeed, recently, when he was visiting Korea and Japan. I would simply leave it at that. To go back to something that the Secretary of State in answer to a question nine hours into a confirmation hearing is very selective when the Secretary of State has since said a range of other things, as has the administration, both through the White House and the Secretary of Defence. Senator LUDLAM: Are you guys having trouble establishing what US government policy is? Mr Richardson: Not at all. Senator Payne: None whatsoever. Both the Minister for Foreign Affairs and I have met with our counterparts in recent weeks. I have met with Secretary Mattis at NATO headquarters in Brussels. Foreign Minister Bishop met with Secretary Tillerson, the Vice President and the National Security Adviser in Washington last week. There is absolutely no trouble whatsoever. Senator LUDLAM: That is fascinating. President Trump has said the United States, ‘must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes.’ I believe that quote dates to before he took office. He also said, ‘Let it be an arms race.’ Does the department or the minister, if you wish, agree with this strategy to make the world a safer place? Senator Payne: You can select as many statements of the President before, during and after the campaign process, the inauguration of whatever that might be. But I do not think it is constructive at all of us to be asked to comment on each of those and we are not going to. Senator LUDLAM: This relates directly to Australian military doctrine. Does the Australian government support a nuclear weapons build up? Senator Payne: The Australian government's position on nuclear non-proliferation and our views in relation to nuclear activities in the region, particularly recently the DPRK, are very clear. You know what they are. I am not going to sit here and engage in a statement by a statement commentary on those that you selectively choose from during a campaign, part of a campaign or anything like that. Senator LUDLAM: Is that because there is no point in putting any stock in stuff that comes out of this fella's mouth? Why we would need not be able to reflect on what our closest ally and security partners policy or changes in doctrine– Senator Payne: I will happily speak to you about government to government engagement, which we have been pursuing since the inauguration and confirmation– Senator LUDLAM: But not anything regarding the President’s weird outbursts? Senator Payne: It could take a very long time. Senator LUDLAM: That is true. Senator Payne: I know that your colleagues love you very much and are very tolerant, but I am not sure that they want to listen to all of that for as many hours as you wish to pursue it. Senator LUDLAM: I will let them speak for themselves. Although I appreciate the sentiment. Mr Richardson: With due respect, your characterisation of the Trump administration's comments are highly selective and, by any objective standard, are misleading. To pick out one statement that was made over a month FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Senate Page 21 ago when there has been a range of other statements since that have been consistent and clear, and US policy is clear, is selective to say the least. Senator LUDLAM: You guys are doing an amazing job of making this fella sound sane. That was a comment, not a question. CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Ludlam. We will pause there. Senator KITCHING: Unlike Senator Ludlam, I’m not going to question what I consider the vital nature of the US Australia alliance. However, I would like to ask about the delegation that was sent to Washington on 8 February. I am referencing an ABC report. I noticed Lieutenant General Campbell is in the room. CDF, can I ask, did the Lieutenant General Campbell lead that delegation? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: No. Senator KITCHING: Who led the delegation? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: It is an issue for the Department of Immigration and Border Protection. I am not sure. I think it was the secretary. But not this secretary. Senator KITCHING: No. Who made up the delegation? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: That will be a question from them. I was asked by the secretary for Lieutenant General Campbell's to be able to participate because of a personal issue of the commander of JTF-HD, the Joint Task Force for Homeland Defense, at the time. Lieutenant General Campbell had been the previous commander to JTF-HD. He had the experience and the knowledge to be able to provide one aspect of the details that were required for those meetings. Senator KITCHING: So he was making those representations. What I am really asking— Air Chief Marshal Binskin: If you just ask straight I can give you the answer. Senator KITCHING: Obviously we have a mission there. I'm wondering why our ambassador to the US, Ambassador Hockey, was not able to make those representations on Australia's behalf. Senator Payne: The government makes its own decisions about government to government representations. That is not at all surprising. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: It is not unusual for teams to go to any of the nations to talk about any of the issues. We always have delegations moving in an out of our major partner nations to talk about a variety of issues. Senator Payne: And that has worked right across government. Senator KITCHING: Have there been other ambassadors to the US who may well have been able to make those representations Ambassador Hockey, appointed by the current Prime Minister, was not able to make those representations. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Not at all. Senator Payne: That is a completely spurious observation. Mr Richardson: As a former ambassador to Washington, I might note that delegations from Australia to the United States on matters like that is not unusual. Perhaps it does reflect on the ambassador. Perhaps I need to rethink the job I did there. But certainly, on both sides of politics, it is a very common thing to do. Senator KITCHING: There is a proposal for a movie showcasing the Australian US military relationship and it is due to air on 4 July 2018. Are you aware of that? Senator Payne: 100 Years of Mateship, yes. Senator KITCHING: So you are aware of that, Minister? Senator Payne: In the broad, yes. I am not in it! Senator KITCHING: Do you feel that Ambassador Hockey is concentrating on those types of issues rather than on serious policy issues? Senator Payne: What I feel, Senator, is that if you have questions that relate to the role of the representative of the government in Washington, they are matters for that Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, just for starters. But secondly, I think Ambassador Hockey is doing an exceptional job in Washington. Senator KITCHING: I think Mr Richardson you said that the force posture cost sharing agreement in relation to Northern Australia was settled recently. Was that discussed at the meeting on 8 February? Senator Payne: It was settled in October last year. It is not part of the considerations of the meetings in February you have referred to. FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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