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Page 36 Senate Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I do not know if he had access to cabinet documents. He did not. So I do not think he is in a position to make a full assessment, to be quite honest. I think you will find that, canvassing most of the people he canvassed, that was a working level view without full access to what the government consideration of the day was looking back 13 or 14 years. Senator LUDLAM: Because there has never been a full public inquiry into the decision making behind the invasion of Iraq, this is the best we have had to work with so far. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I do not think it fully covers all of the aspects, so I would not take some of the lessons that you might be trying to take out of it. Senator LUDLAM: He does not have access to cabinet documents and I do not think he claimed to do so. So there is a political story there, I guess, that he does not have access to them. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: It is not a political story. That was not the intent of the review that he was doing. The review he was doing was at the tactical level and lessons learned for that level of Army that they could put into place in the future, because we always do lessons learned. It was his decision to then delve more broadly than that. Unfortunately, he did not have access to all of the information required to do that. Senator LUDLAM: The lessons that he was learning from those on the ground at a working level, as you put it, were that our participation was largely pointless and entirely political. Does that concern you? Is that a decent enough reason to put your personnel into harm's way? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I think you are going into a generalisation there. Senator LUDLAM: He is actually quite specific in the document. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: That is his opinion. Senator LUDLAM: Does it concern you that personnel in your care or in your predecessor's care were put very much into harm's way for what are essentially political rather than military or tactical or strategic objectives? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Again, it is his opinion. We operate in accordance with what the government's strategic intent is on the day. Senator LUDLAM: What strategic objectives did Australia achieve through its involvement in that war? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I think if we go back into that we could be here all day. I am happy to take all of that on notice and provide those details to you. Senator LUDLAM: Okay. If you are taking matters on notice, can you tell us what the total spend of Australian military operations in the Iraq War from 2003 to 2010 was? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: We can do that. We can give you a list. Senator LUDLAM: And the total number of casualties on all sides of that conflict. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: On all sides? Senator LUDLAM: Yes. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: We will take that on notice. Senator LUDLAM: I would greatly appreciate that. Do you dispute that central finding that Australia joined the war solely to strengthen Australia's alliance with the United States? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Again, I was not privy to the government consideration of the day. But, given the general knowledge that I did have, I would dispute that that was the only reason we went into that. There were far broader concerns about what was happening in the region leading up to that and around that time. It is all widely known. It is all public access information if you care to go and read it. Senator LUDLAM: I have read a fair bit of that material. My view before having come across this dossier was that our objectives were political and not at all as described by the Howard government at the time. This appears to back those contentions up. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: You will have to go back and talk to the prime minister of the day. Senator LUDLAM: We will see if we can get him in front of an inquiry then. President Trump has said that he is seeking to increase US defence spending by $70 billion—that is in Australian dollars—or about nine per cent. This is since his inauguration. He has proposed one of the greatest military build-ups in American history. I understand that Australia and other allies—Japan, South Korea et cetera—have been under some public pressure in recent months to increase our defence spending. Maybe this is best directed to you, Senator Payne. What discussions or correspondence has the Australian government entered into regarding Australia's defence budget since the turnover in the US administration? FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Senate Page 37 Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I think before the minister and the secretary get a chance to talk about that, the reference point that the US administration incoming president was using was a NATO standard of aiming for two per cent of GDP. Any reference that we would have on being able to answer that would be what our current percentage of GDP is and what the goals of the white paper are. Senator LUDLAM: The goals of the white paper are to reach two per cent. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: So we are actually at the point where I would think the US administration would come from. Senator LUDLAM: That arbitrary settling of a target of two per cent of GDP has been criticised from within and outside of the Defence establishment because it is utterly arbitrary. Shouldn't we be deciding what capability we want and then figuring out how much it costs rather than just setting a completely artificial benchmark? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: It is iterative. You work along the capabilities that you would require, what the strategy would require us to fund and what is affordable and then you would be able to set the targets in that space. Senator LUDLAM: And that number magically arrives at two per cent for Australia and every— Air Chief Marshal Binskin: It did not—not 2.0 per cent. It is a goal that is a common reference around the world for what is an appropriate amount of spend. Senator LUDLAM: For countries with totally different strategic circumstances to Australia, it magically arrives at two per cent? Senator Payne: I do not think you can expect any of us to comment on the matter for other countries. But clearly what we have set out as a government in the defence white paper and in the Integrated Investment Program, which is underpinned by that, is a capability development program—and support to the key enablers, for example, of defence that literally make it work every day—that is targeted, carefully planned and based on a full structural review which preceded the development of the white paper and the Integrated Investment Program. As that Integrated Investment Program and the spend associated with that tracks, we are able to indicate that Australia will reach about two per cent of GDP spend on defence in the year 2021. That is something which I and the Prime Minister have spoken about regularly in the public environment. In terms of the observations of the United States, it is true to say that Secretary Mattis, in discussions with his NATO colleagues in Brussels at their most recent meeting, raised this with them. Australia was not and is not part of that discussion. As regards any correspondence or engagement, I most certainly very strongly advised Secretary Mattis of where we were, what our plan was, what our Defence white paper set out and what our Integrated Investment Program set out. I indicated to him that that would achieve a spend of two per cent of GDP by 2021. But, more importantly, it would satisfy Australia's capability needs across Airforce, Navy, Army and the Defence organisation and the things that it needs to do to properly address capability and serve the nation entirely appropriately. Senator LUDLAM: Thank you for that. I was not expecting you to go into details of that conversation. But, since you have, did the secretary— Senator Payne: It is a public statement. Senator LUDLAM: Did the Secretary of Defense invite Australia to make a greater contribution either in procurement or in military commitments around the world? Senator Payne: No, not at this point. I have also said that publicly. Senator LUDLAM: That is okay. That is what you said publicly a few days ago. It is worth bringing it up just to see if there are any updates. Are you expecting a request for a greater commitment of ADF resources or personnel? Senator Payne: There is a new administration, a new Secretary of Defense, new secretaries of the services and a new National Security Adviser. I would expect any responsible administration to review their strategic commitments, as any new government would in Australia. What flows from that we will wait to see. Senator LUDLAM: Is any contingency planning underway for a greater commitment of Australian personnel or resources to anywhere in particular overseas? Senator Payne: We are constantly reviewing our commitment. It is not caused by or as a result of changes in the US administration or, for that matter, any of our other allies or partners. We are constantly reviewing our commitments. Government is regularly informed of and advised by the Chief of the Defence Force and the secretary of the department in relation to those matters, as you would expect and as should be the case. As I said, we will wait to see what comes from any review that the United States makes in relation to its strategic commitments. FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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