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Page 12 Senate Wednesday, 1 March 2017 attending. I think the recognition is most certainly there from the government of Iraq and from the United States as leader of the coalition and from our normal counterparts in the international context. The building partner capacity mission is a particularly apposite example, I think. If you look at the numbers that have been trained by our soldiers in conjunction with the NZ DF in Taji, we have trained over 16,000 regular Army personnel in the Iraqi security forces, which has made a significant contribution to what they have been able to achieve in the past in terms of their actions. Since the extension of our training activity, we have trained almost 2,000 police. They are used in different ways and there is different nomenclature in terms of what they are called by the Iraqi government. But there are almost 2,000 of those, whose role will be to pursue stability in areas that have been liberated. In those very simple terms, that is an indication of the pretty extensive contribution from Australia. Senator FARRELL: What is the purpose of those people after liberation? Senator Payne: Police. Stability. Senator FARRELL: Right. Senator Payne: Stability in communities that have been liberated from Daesh. The government agreed to that extension of our training activities from our building partner capacity activities in Taji. Senator FARRELL: You mentioned that there are a number of additional countries now involved. Can you tell us who they are? Senator Payne: I would have to get a full list for you. But I do know that the most recent addition to the table in Brussels at the last meeting was Lithuania. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: There are about 64 nations involved one way or another in the coalition. Some of that might be financial support or political support. There are just over 30 that are contributing forces one way or another. When you look at the component, there are a small number of nations and then there is a smaller number again that are doing strikes. Our contribution is right up there. As the senator, or the minister, said, it is valued very much by the Iraqis. Senator FARRELL: She is also a senator. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: She is. But she is my minister. Senator FARRELL: It’s not Christopher Pyne? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: We share a lot of ministers. I am very proud to have the senator as our minister. I have lost my train of thought. Sorry about that. Senator FARRELL: I have distracted you, CDF. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: It is valued. As the minister said, whenever we talk to the Iraqis, and I met with my counterpart, the CDF, in January, the first part of the conversation is always the value that they place on the support we are giving them. If you look at the senior Iraqi government participation in the graduations at Taji, it is either the defence minister or the PM, that level, who will turn up to those graduations. That is the significance that they see in the support that we give them. Senator FARRELL: Have you been to some of those? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I have not been to the graduations, no. Senator FARRELL: The minister mentioned additional countries. You have talked about the variety of contributions you can make. Have those new countries also been actually providing military forces or are they countries that are supplying financial contributions? Senator Payne: Some of them do; some of them don’t. We will take on notice to provide, as is available publicly, a list for the committee. Senator FARRELL: Thank you. Just talking about task group Taji: did you say that we have completed all of the training? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: We continue to complete their training. Units come through on a four-, six-, eight- or nine-week training course. It depends on the requirement for their on operations. It depends whether it is police or army. It depends on what they are going to do afterwards. We have had some units, as I alluded to, that we trained initially who have come back through for refresher training prior to them then moving to the next front. That is where we are seeing the change in their capability, their attitudes and their ability to work together as units, when they do come back in after they have been out fighting. Senator FARRELL: Does that mean that you are seeing them more than once in terms of training? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Some units, yes. FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Senate Page 13 Senator FARRELL: And you are noticing an increase in confidence? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: There is an increase in confidence. And, as I mentioned in my opening statement, a battle-hardened approach to what they are doing. We are seeing it in their employment of tactics, how they manoeuvre and how they coordinate, improving with each iteration as well and with each assault. In the assault of Mosul we have seen them change their tactics and improve how they coordinate between the CTS, the federal police, the regular army and how they are manoeuvring. So we are seeing that improvement month to month as the operations continue. Senator FARRELL: You would say that was partly because of the training that we are giving them? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: It is definitely because of the training that not only Australia is giving them but other members of the coalition as well, and the building partner capacity. Then there is also the work that our Special Operations Task Group is doing in conjunction with a couple of other nations, working very closely with counterterrorism service. We are definitely seeing the input of the mentoring, the advising and the assisting there being played out in operations. Senator FARRELL: Did you say we have trained 16,000? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: If you look at the total, it is about 19,000 when you combine everything. I think the minister mentioned 16,000 Iraqi army and then there are police on top of that. Senator Payne: There are 2,000 or so police. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: When you add it all up it is about 19,000. Senator FARRELL: I think you mentioned in your opening statement about the retaking of east Mosul. Now activity is focused on west Mosul. Can you give us any clearer picture of what is happening there? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I think what you are seeing in the open source media gives you a good idea of the operations and the intensity of fighting that is going on in west Mosul. Senator FARRELL: All right. I want to read out a little media report from 22 February and ask a question about it. It said: But an estimated 750,000 civilians are under siege across the Tigris River which is home to the old city with narrower streets and denser terrain. Australian Defence Force chief of joint operations Vice Admiral David Johnston— Not to be confused with the Senator— warned there is likely to be IS (Daesh) sleeper cells among the civilian population in the city's east who will conduct terrorist attacks to delay the offensive in the west. Do you have any advice on the number of civilian casualties arising from the ground offensive? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I do not have advice on the number of civilian casualties, but I can say to you that everything that we do in our operations aims to minimise civilian casualties. When they are in a war zone, and it is a tight urban area, that is difficult to do. But part of our processes and what we work with the Iraqis with is always to look to minimise civilian casualties in the operations. That being said, we are working against an adversary, ISIL, who do not care about civilian casualties. In fact, inflicting as much damage as they can on the population is a part of their operation. It is a tragedy. As we get into the closer urban fighting in Mosul—and it is tighter, as the old city of Mosul is on the western side–that could become more of an issue. It is just something that the planners will have to take into account and those on the ground will have to factor in for their operations. CHAIR: Can I just ask you to stop there for a moment and I will go to Senate Fawcett. Senator FAWCETT: Mr Richardson, can I move on from your opening statement to the budget overview? I would like to talk specifically about table 1.3, budget measures, which I note has not been updated in your additional estimates. I have raised a number of times in the past the issue of transparency of absorbed measures and I am pleased to see in this table there are some footnotes that actually highlight some absorbed measures. Having highlighted those, are they the only absorbed measures in the budget or are there others that have not been flagged? Mr Richardson: No, that would not be the totality of absorbed measures. Senator FAWCETT: Could I commend you for identifying some and request that, where possible, any individual amount that can be identified as an absorbed measure is? I repeat my request in the light of what we have seen in the past where a lot of back-of-house functions were hollowed out as a consequence of absorbed FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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