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Page 28 Senate Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Senator KIM CARR: What about non-routine? What is the benchmark there? Ms Crome: It will depend on the issue. If it is identified as urgent correspondence, we will seek to turn it around within 24 to 48 hours. Senator KIM CARR: Are you able to tell me how often you have met the targets? Ms Crome: I would have to take that one on notice. Senator KIM CARR: Is there any noticeable departure from the targets? Ms Crome: Not to my knowledge, but I would prefer to take that on notice. Senator KIM CARR: How many items of correspondence do you receive? Ms Crome: Thousands. Senator KIM CARR: I would expect would be the case. However, is there a process in place for the monitoring of correspondence in terms of determining which category a correspondence matter would fit into? Ms Crome: We work with the ministers offices in relation to correspondence and line areas across the department to help determine what categories it might sit in. Then all correspondence is captured through our electronic system. Senator KIM CARR: So there is a log. I presume a DLO talks to ministerial advisers. Is that what happens? Ms Crome: That is correct. Senator KIM CARR: You would identify that there is a problem if an item of correspondence is in the ministerial office for too long? Ms Crome: We seek to look at correspondence with the department and track responsiveness from the department's perspective. Then we work with the DLOs if we receive feedback that something might need to be addressed. Senator KIM CARR: I used to always encourage the department in my time to actually tell me if there was a bit of correspondence sitting on an adviser's desk for too long. Do you do that? Ms Crome: Yes, we will go in to the DLOs if we believe there is something that we have not seen returned to the department. Senator KIM CARR: Let us take the recent case of the dispute with the Indonesians over the training program in Western Australia. You can correct me where I am wrong. I am told that correspondence was received from a General Gatot, who, it is put to me, is a friend of Australia and known to be very friendly with Australia and who raised concerns with the minister in regard to the training program in Western Australia. Did that occur? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: No. Senator KIM CARR: It did not happen? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: No. The process that we went through to understand the issue that we had, which took a little bit of time, was initially through post in Jakarta and our defence attache talking to myself and the Chief of Army. Senator KIM CARR: So the general did not write to an Australian minister in November of last year? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I will check, but I do not believe that Panglima, who is the Chief of Defence over there, ever wrote to the minister. He wrote to me in response to a letter I wrote to him. Senator KIM CARR: This is General Gatok. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Nurmantyo. 'Panglima' is his Indonesian title. Senator KIM CARR: My apologies. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: No, that is all right. Senator KIM CARR: So you are saying it did not happen? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: No, he wrote to me in response to a letter I had written to him when it became apparent that we had had an issue with the language training in WA. I will get the exact dates of the correspondence, but that was the general flow. On 24 November the head of Australian Defence staff in Jakarta was advised by a commander of the Indonesian armed forces assistance for intelligence that we had had this issue that has been widely publicised. It had come to our attention just in the couple of days before that we had had an issue, so on 23 November I had written to Panglima, my counterpart. On 24 November the Chief of Army had signed a letter to his counterpart in Indonesia. On 9 December Panglima signed a letter to me acknowledging my 23 November letter. Then the correspondence went backwards and forwards. There were a couple of other FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Senate Page 29 correspondence—Chief of Army to his counterpart. But that was the initial correspondence trail in this. Then there were discussions through post with the Indonesian armed forces just a bit more on the cooperation and those specific areas. Senator KIM CARR: Why did it take so long to resolve this matter? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: First of all, we had to do the investigation or the inquiry, which was quite detailed in this. We had an initial idea of what the issues were, but we needed to get to the bottom of that. Then, because there were potentially affected people, there is a legal process we need to go through as well, which we kept tight. But it took a couple of weeks to get that through over the Christmas period and into the new year. It was as tight as it could be. Then we did provide updates to the Indonesians. On 16 December the Chief of Army sent an update to his Indonesian counterpart and then back on 11 January I signed a letter that provided an update to the commander of Indonesian armed forces, Panglima, on the progress as well. So we were talking to the Indonesians throughout this. Senator KIM CARR: Minister, your intervention came much later? Senator Payne: Yes, in terms of the public engagement. I think I held a small media conference in early January. It was at the end of the first week of January if I recall correctly. I communicated by letter with my colleague Minister Ryamizard. I spoke to him by telephone as well and I wrote to him again a second time. I did that, of course, in consultation and coordination and with the engagement of the senior leadership of the ADF. Senator KIM CARR: So at no point were you contacted directly by the Indonesian— Senator Payne: No, Senator. I am as sure as I can be in here, without going back to my office to check the records, that I did not directly receive a letter from the general. In fact, that would not be normal. Senator KIM CARR: And you are satisfied that the downsizing has not left you underserviced in regard to support from the department in any of these areas? Senator Payne: Yes—I have no critical observations to make in that regard. We work very closely together. The process is as the CDF has set it out. Senator KIM CARR: I will come back on that. Senator FAWCETT: Can I just ask a couple of questions on workforce. Secretary, you may be able to answer the first one. I know you made some comments on civilian workforce. This is going back again to the portfolio budget statement. There was an expectation that the workforce would stabilise at around 18,200 from 2016 to 2017. I am just wondering if you could give us—if I missed that before, can you just refresh me? Mr Richardson: Yes. We have a ceiling of Defence APS of 18,200. We are currently at about 17,300. As I mentioned, we are building back to the 18,200. The reason we took it well below that is that we need a different workforce mix, particularly in shipbuilding and in cyber. Senator FAWCETT: I guess that was my next question in terms of your workforce plan—identifying the gaps where you need to grow capability or competence as you reach that 18,200. Are there any areas where you have significant gaps? Are the cyber and shipbuilding the only two or are there other areas? Mr Richardson: Under the white paper, as part of the white paper, the government outlined its plans in respect of growing the cyber and cybersecurity workforce. That is in place. Senator FAWCETT: Can I take it from that that the effort that you have talked about in previous estimates— to actually go across and essentially do a job description for each of the roles so you have a baseline of where your skills requirements are and where your skills assets are—is complete now? Mr Richardson: We have done most of that. There are still some gaps, but we have done most of it. Senator FAWCETT: On the ADF workforce, the comment in the PBS was that it was under the funded strength when the funded strength was 59,209. But now the workforce would grow to 62,400. I am just wanting to get an indication as to—it is early in that period, but are we on track to move toward that 62,400? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I will get the exact details, but a lot of that growth is in relation to projects that come online as well and then also some growth in our cyber workforce. I can get you an update offline on that. I will take it on notice. Senator FAWCETT: I also have the same question I asked the secretary in terms of analysing where the actual skills requirement is versus an audit of where your skills capability currently sits and closing the gaps. Can we get an update on that as well? FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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