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Page 10 Senate Wednesday, 1 March 2017 program globally called Dandelion. We have nine people in Defence as part of that program on the autism spectrum with special skills and we have rolled out the Defence administrative assistance program in Townsville, Amberley, Enoggera, Holsworthy, Victoria Barracks Melbourne, Edinburgh and Stirling and are about to roll out in Robertson in Darwin. That program employs people with intellectual disabilities. Some 115 to 130 people with intellectual disabilities who did not previously have a job now have a job with Defence. We do that on a business proposition. We work in partnership with different community groups and those individuals are providing service to Defence which we were not previously getting. On the policy front, I would simply note the challenges of North Korea, the South China Sea, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. I would also note, obviously, the work that is now going on with the new administration in the US. In that context, I would note that we have completed the force posture cost sharing agreement with the US in respect of their activities in northern Australia. Other issues, of course, are the legacy contamination issues on the estate and the need to expand certain training areas, particularly to meet ADF requirements. Finally, looking ahead, I would note that APS numbers in the budget in Defence will come under some pressure over the next four years. I am not by any means suggesting that that will be unmanageable, but I think it is worth noting because there appears to be an assumption sometimes made that there is slack in the Defence budget. I would simply note for the record that that is not the case. It is going to tighten up considerably in the next three to four years as shipbuilding and other activities start to bite. Thank you. CHAIR: Thank you, Secretary. We will go to questions. Senator Farrell. Senator FARRELL: CDF, you gave us an outline of some of your activities. In respect of the Middle East, have you seen any changes in the disposition of tactics employed by Daesh since we last spoke? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Yes, we have. If we go back two years, Daesh were fighting as a formed group out in the open, manoeuvring quite well and more along a conventional line than an insurgency. We are still seeing them fighting along conventional lines. We see their weapons of choice are still vehicle borne improvised explosive devices. The assaults that the counterterrorism service are conducting on Mosul, the first line of defence that comes at some are multiple VBIED attacks. So these could come just as vehicles that are loaded up but are more likely now what you would hear termed Mad Max vehicles. There is lots of steel around them with small slits for the drivers to see and they are predominantly suicide attacks. Senator FARRELL: Mad Max 4 vehicles or— Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Not one but the two to four regime. But you get the idea of the vehicles that are going against them. They are coordinated now with what we are seeing as a predominantly growing threat, which is the unmanned aerial systems. I will call them drones, because that is what most people call them. They are the little commercial ones that you can buy. You are seeing a lot of those now starting to appear over the battlefield armed with grenades. They are small weapons, but it is enough to create havoc and, if you are in the wrong spot, to kill you. So we are seeing a marked growth in that area as well as Daesh now starting to work the defences in what is a very tight urban environment, which is western Mosul. I would say the growth in the commercial UAS is the area that has changed since we last got together. Senator FARRELL: How do you defend against drones dropping— Air Chief Marshal Binskin: There are a number of ways of doing that. I would not propose we talk about it in the open. But it is anything to kinetic to other modes of being able to disrupt them. They are limited in what they can do, but in close urban fighting they have the range to be able to create problems to the assaulting force. Senator FARRELL: Has there been any notable change to the threat posed to either our own forces of coalition forces? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: No, I do not believe so. We continue to monitor the threat environment that they are a part of. They are moving with the headquarters of the CTS as they move forward in the assault. So we have our people at forward operating bases but we keep a very close eye on the threats and risks that they may pose. They are the same threats and risks predominantly that we faced throughout the last couple of years. Senator FARRELL: So things have not changed in that respect? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: No, but I will say that it is still a risky environment that they operate in. Even though they operate at the headquarters level, it is still a risky environment, so we keep a close eye on it. Senator FARRELL: I want to talk about a few aspects of Operation Okra. I know that you mentioned some of them in your opening statement. Could you tell us how many FA18s we have deployed at the moment and are they classic or Super Hornets? FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Wednesday, 1 March 2017 Senate Page 11 Air Chief Marshal Binskin: They are classic Hornets at the moment. As you know, we are approved to deploy up to 8 Hornets, whether they be super or classic. Currently they are classic. We normally have six in country for operations in the base in the Middle East we operate from. At the moment, temporarily for a couple of months, we have a seventh aeroplane in theatre. This is predominantly from an administrative point of view. We are across doing an exercise with one of the countries in the Middle East. This is part of our normal exercises. At the time we were doing what we call a 'tail swap' of aircraft. About every six to eight weeks we will swap a couple of aeroplanes out to bring them back for a deep level maintenance back in Australia. As part of that tail swap, we did an exercise in country. To reduce the number of tail swaps we do, we left an extra aircraft in there for a period of a couple of months. The rate of effort has gone up a little bit in support of Mosul. We could have done that with the six aeroplanes. The seventh just makes it easier for the maintainers and takes an administrative costs from one of the swap outs away. Senator FARRELL: I think you mentioned how many times we have flown, but I'm not sure you have distinguished between Iraq and Syria. Would you be able to give us that information? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: You are more after the FA18s, I would imagine. Senator FARRELL: Yes, I am. Air Chief Marshal Binskin: The Super Hornets flew 418 sorties in total. That was all in Iraq. The classic Hornets have flown 1,749 sorties in total, of which 48 have been in Syria. Senator FARRELL: On average, how many missions are we flying daily or weekly and on how many occasions have our pilots fired their weapons? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I will not get into the daily rate of effort, but I am happy to talk in camera a bit more about what the rate of effort is. The super Hornets employed 278 weapons during that time, and they were the first rotation through. The classic Hornets have dropped 1,425 precision weapons in total, of which 67 have been in Syria. Senator FARRELL: Have any RAAF asset been fired upon while undertaking operations since the last estimates? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: I have not had any reports of them being fired on, but that does not mean that it has not happened. Although they do operate in an environment that is well clear of the predominant number of weapons systems that are in Iraq and Syria. That doesn't mean a soldier hasn't picked up a gun and shot something at them. But the chances of that doing anything is quite slim—touch wood. Senator FARRELL: Can you tell us how our contribution to the war effort is compared to the other participants? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: The Australian contribution is a substantial contribution. You can talk about whether it is the second-largest after the US in the coalition in Iraq. It is difficult to compare because some nations are doing something on the ground, others are doing it in the air. But when you look at the combination of what we are doing with our task group, we have the strike aircraft, the tanker, the Wedgetail airborne early warning and control aircraft and the building partner capacity at Taji, which is about 300 Australians. You can also look at the 50 or so embeds we have in coalition headquarters and the special operations task group that sits around about 80. You do that combined air and land and it is a substantial contribution. And it is a valued contribution for Iraq. Senator FARRELL: Obviously the United States is doing most of the work. How do we compare with the other countries around our size in terms of contribution? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: If you look at our deployment compared to other countries that are involved, I would say that we are pretty much to the top of the coalition. It would depend. For example, if the French had an aircraft carrier in, that would increase their contribution. When the aircraft carrier is not in it reduces their contribution. But consistently, I would say we have been probably close to leading the other coalition nations in just size and what we are doing with our force. Senator FARRELL: Is that recognised by those other countries? Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Yes, it is. Senator Payne: And by the government of Iraq, Senator. Most definitely. There are 34 or 35 countries who participate in the large minister’s meeting of the counter ISIL coalition, the most recent meeting of which was held at NATO headquarters in Brussels about 10 days ago, which I attended. In the small ministerial group there are about 12 members—that is, 12 of the larger contributors. In the past months, each iteration of the counter ISIL meeting has seen an increase in the numbers participating. And new ministers, and therefore new countries, FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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