qronika+303

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com

yovelkvireuli gazeTi

gamodis samSabaTobiT N1 1 (303) 21.1.20

.2020

fasi 2 lari

amiran saluqvaZe:

`moTmineba

da Sida

sazogadoebrivpolitikuri

Tanxmoba unda

gveyos, rom

teritoriebis

dabrunebamde

nabij-nabij

mivideT!~

gv. 2

valeri gelbaxiani

sakonstitucio

sasamarTlosgan sisxlis

samarTlis kodeqsis

180-e da 182-e muxlebis

gauqmebas iTxovs!

ratom Caagdo SokSi amerikuli

koncerni GILEAD

gv. 4

SCIENCES-i saqarTvelos

gv. 20

`saqarTvelos fosta~

saerTaSoriso

skandalSi exveva?!

saxelmwifo auditis angariSma?

gv. 22

rogor moatyua

saqarTvelos mTavrobam

okupirebul teritoriaze

mcxovrebi qarTvelebi?

gv. 36

ègvipturi warmoebis wamali

suicidisadmi midrekilebas iwvevda~


gv. 2

gv. 24

paata daviTaia: `moskovi afxazeTis

dakargvas ar Seegueba~

gv. 10

gia xuxaSvili:

nino burjanaZe:

murman dumbaZe:

ìvaniSvili unda

dabrundes premierministris

postze~

gv. 8 gv. 14

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

òpoziciis mTavari

berketi opoziciuri

magidis erTobaa!~

gv. 30

`biZina ivaniSvili

aslan abaSiZes

saidumlod Sexvda~

1


ra gavlenas iqoniebs medvedevis mTavrobis

naaxalwlevs cnobili gaxda,

giorgi abaSiZe

rom ruseTis mTavroba, premier

dimitri medvedevis meTaurobiT,

sruli SemadgenlobiT gadadga. mTavrobis gadadgomamde mosk-

ovSi vladimir putinis federaciis sabWosadmi yovelwliuri

mimarTva gaimarTa. analitikosTa nawilma Tavidanve ivarauda,

rom mTavrobis gadadgoma SesaZloa, vladimir putinis im ini-

ciativebs ukavSirdebodes, romelic man am mimarTvis dros

gaaJRera. kerZod, zemoxsenebuli mimarTvisas putini ramden-

ime sakonstitucio cvlilebis iniciativiT gamovida da dumisa

da federaciis sabWos uflebamosilebis gazrda daaanonsa.

amasTan, dagegmili cvlilebis mixedviT, federaciuli sabWo

sakonstitucio organo xdeba, sabWos ki sakonstitucio sasa-

marTloebis mosamarTleebis daniSvnis ufleba eZleva.

aseve icvleba Zalovani ministrebis

arCevisa da daniSvnis wesi,

anu axali proceduris mixedviT,

Zalovani profilis ministrebi

federaciis sabWosTan konsultaciis

Sedegad dainiSnebian.

dagegmili cvlilebebis mixedviT,

icvleba mTavrobis daniSvnis

wesic, rac imas niSnavs, rom cvlilebis

amoqmedebis Semdeg, mTavrobis

meTaurs, ministrebsa da

moadgileebs, duma daamtkicebs.

cvlilebebiTve uqmdeba sakonstitucio

SezRudva zedized or saprezideno

vadasTan dakavSirebiT.

cvlilebis mixedviT, sakonstitucio

sasamarTlos miecema ufleba,

gaauqmos da gadasinjos federaciuli

kanonebis konstituciuroba.

amavdroulad, sakanonmdeblo

gadasinjvebis inicirebis ufleba

mxolod prezidents eqneba.

aseve igegmeba minimaluri xelfasis

gansazRvra da pensiis indeqsacia,

romelic ar unda iyos

ufro naklebi, vidre ruseTSi gansazRvruli

saarsebo minimumi.

amavdroulad, mkacrdeba prezidentisa

da prezidentobis sakandidato

moTxovnebi.

cvlilebebis Tanaxmad, ruseT-

Si cxovrebis savaldebuli dro

10-dan 25 wlamde izrdeba. prezidents,

ministrebsa da mosamar-

Tleebs erTmevaT ormagi moqalaqeobisa

da sxva qveyanaSi cxovrebis

nebarTvis ufleba.

ruseTis prezidents an prezidentobis

msurvels ar unda hqondes

sxva qveyanaSi cxovrebis

nebarTvis dokumenti, rogorc mimdinare

droSi, aseve _ warsulSic.

yovelive amis garda, ruseTis

prezidentma, vladimir putinma,

wamoayena iniciativa referendumis

Catarebis Sesaxebac. kerZod, referendumi

sakonstitucio cvlilebebis

sakiTxze unda Catardes _

putins surs, ruseTi saprezidentodan

saparlamento respublikad

iqces, sadac ZiriTadi Zalaufleba

premier-ministrs eqneba da, amgvarad,

meoTxe saprezidento vadis

amowurvis Semdeg, kvlav SeinarCunos

mmarTveloba.

SegaxsenebT, rom putins saprezidento

vada 2024 wels ewureba,

Tumca putins Tavis mimarTvaSi ar

daukonkretebia, ras apirebs am vadis

amowurvis Semdeg.

ise, qarTuli politikis kuluarebSi

ruseTis samTavrobo cvlilebebi

zogma sabWoTa kavSiris

modernizebad miiCnia. zogadad,

putini rom sabWoTa kavSiris reanimacias

cdilobs, aq axali araferia,

Tumca „qronika+”-sTan saubrisas

analitikosi amiran saluqvaZe

medvedevis mTavrobis gadadgomas

modernizebuli sabWoTa

kavSiris Seqmnis dasawyisad ar miiCnevs.

amasTan, saluqvaZe arc imas

elodeba, rom ruseTis axali mTavroba

sagareo politikas Secvlis

da, magaliTad, okupirebul teritoriebTan

mimarTebiT rame siaxle

iqneba, anu qarTveli eqsperti

ambobs, rom yvelafer imas, rac

CrdiloeTSi moxda, ufro Sida

moxmarebis saxe aqvs, anu putini

cdilobs, rom 2024 wlis arCevnebamde

xalxis guli rogorme moigos

da saprotesto muxti CaaxSos.

„qronika+~ gTavazobT intervius

brigadis general, analiti-

kos amiran saluqvaZesTan:

_ putinis mier ruseTis

mTavrobis gadayenebis Semdeg

zogierTma qarTvelma eqspertma

ivarauda, rom yvelaferi es Sesa-

Zloa, modernizebuli sabWoTa

kavSiris Seqmnisken gadadgmuli

nabiji iyos. batono amiran, am

mosazrebas iziarebT?

_ Cems pirvel poziciaze davr-

Cebi, romelic am cvlilebebis gaxmovanebis

Semdeg gavaJRere, anu

putinis mier mTavrobis gadayeneba,

Cemi azriT, ori faqtoriTaa

gamowveuli. erTi faqtori Sidaa

_ bolo erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi,

gansakuTrebiT ki, bolo TveebSi,

ruseTis sxvadasxva qalaqSi sakmaod

mwvave saprotesto aqciebi

vixileT. ricxovnobis mxriv, ruse-

Tis masStabebidan gamomdinare, es

aqciebi SesaZloa, mwvave ar iyo,

magram balotnaias saprotesto

talRis Semdeg, msgavsi simwvavis

aqciebi ar yofila. es aqciebi bevr

Sida processa da movlenas ukav-

Sirdeboda, anu xalxi, erTi mxriv,

bolo arCevnebs aprotestebda, meore

mxriv ki _ demokratiasa da sityvis

Tavisuflebas. yvelaferi es

ruseTis xelisuflebam, Cemi

azriT, Zalian kargad gaiazra.

_ ruseTis xelisuflebam ga-

iazra Tu putinma?

_ yvelasTvis gasagebia, rom xelisufleba

putinia _ yvela saxelisuflebo

Stos, ra sistemac

unda SemoiRos, putini erTpirovnulad

akontrolebs. mokled,

putinma dainaxa, rom aucilebelia

yuradRebis gadatana. amitomac,

erTi mxriv, samTavrobo cvlilebebi

daiwyo, rac karga xnis

ganmavlobaSi ganxilvis mTavari

Tema iqneba, miT umetes, rom

aprilSi ministrTa kabinetis axali

strategiis wardgenas apireben.

meore mxriv, putinma garkveuli

socialuri paketebic gaaJRera,

rac, Cemi azriT, sistemuri ki ara,

ufro epizoduria. magaliTad,

saubaria pirvelidan meoTxe klaselebisTvis

skolebSi ufaso cxel

kvebaze; aseve klasis damrigeblebisTvis

xelfasebis 5 aTas rublamde

momatebaze, rac as dolarze naklebia.

yvelaferi es 2026 wlamde

unda moxdes. putinis bolo

saprezidento vada 2024-Si iwureba,

Tumca es programebi kidev ori

amiran saluqvaZe:

`moTmineba da Sida

sazogadoebriv-

politikuri

Tanxmoba unda

gveyos, rom

teritoriebis

dabrunebamde nabij-

nabij mivideT!~

weli imuSavebs, Tumca SemdegSic

gagrZeldeba Tu ara, rezervebze

iqneba damokidebuli.

_ erTi sityviT, putini masis

gulis mogebas cdilobs?

_ ra Tqma unda. is xom „mzrunveli

nacionaluri lideria”, Tumca

am terminis Sesaxeb ufro vrclad

qvemoT visaubreb. yvela es

programa ekonomikis Zireul cvlasa

da modernizebas ar emsaxureba,

Tumca putins axali premieris

imedic aqvs, radgan sanam premieri

gaxdeboda, Tavis sferoSi warmatebas

miaRwia _ iseTi sagadasaxado

`prezidents sxva funqciebic SeunarCundeba, anu

mTavrobis erTpirovnulad dakompleqtebis

ufleba, axali sakonstitucio cvlilebebiT,

romelic muSavdeba, parlaments gadaecema,

kerZod, parlamenti premieris kandidaturas

SearCevs, mis mier Sedgenil ministrTa kabinets

ki parlamenti daamtkicebs, xolo prezidents

mxolod is valdebuleba eqneba, rom axali

ministrTa kabinetis Semadgenlobas xeli

moaweros. es, daaxloebiT, iseTive modelia,

rogoric CvenTanaa. saerTod, bolo wlebSi

ruseTma Cvengan bevri reforma gadaiRo~

Tanamedrove sistema Seqmna, rogoric,

daaxloebiT, CvenTanaa da gadasaxadebis

amoRebis mxriv

garkveul warmatebas miaRwia.

amas garda, putinisTvis arankleb

mniSvnelovani 2024 wlis

Semdgomi periodisTvis mzadebaa _

2024-Si mas ufleba aRar eqneba,

rom prezidentis posti daikavos

da, rogorc Cans, am kuTxiT cvlilebebis

ganxorcielebas ar

apirebs, Tumca am mxriv bolo

Tveebis trendia saintereso.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ ai, „edinaia rosias” liderebi,

magaliTad, nemerovi, putins

prezidents ki ara, „nacionalur

liders” uwodebs, rac SemTxvevi-

Ti araa. am termins, cxadia, saku-

Tari nebiT ar iyenebs da, rogorc

Cans, aseTi miTiTeba aqvs.

_ anu unda velodoT, rom 2024-

Si ruseTSi „putinizmi” ar dasruldeba

da putini ruseTis pre-

mierad mogvevlineba?

_ cxadia, putini TavisTvis

garkveul Tanamdebobas moimzadebs

da Semcvlelis moZebnazec

imuSavebs, anu ukve Tqva, rom ruse-

Ti 2024-is Semdegac saprezidento

respublikad darCeba, rac imas ni-

Snavs, rom prezidenti SeiaraRebuli

Zalebis mTavarsadali iqneba.

es Tanamdeboba ruseTSi yovelTvis

seriozul berketad miiCneoda

da miiCneva. amas garda, prezidents

sxva funqciebic Seunar-

Cundeba, anu mTavrobis erTpirovnulad

dakompleqtebis ufleba,

axali sakonstitucio cvlilebebiT,

romelic muSavdeba, parlaments

gadaecema, kerZod, parlamenti

premieris kandidaturas SearCevs,

mis mier Sedgenil ministrTa

kabinets ki parlamenti daamtkicebs,

xolo prezidents mxolod is

valdebuleba eqneba, rom axali

ministrTa kabinetis Semadgenlobas

xeli moaweros. es, daaxloebiT,

iseTive modelia, rogoric CvenTanaa.

saerTod, bolo wlebSi ruseTma

Cvengan bevri reforma gadaiRo.

_ diax, asea. magaliTad, saqarTvelos

msgavsad, „kanonieri qu-

rdoba” ruseTSic ukve dasjadia.

_ igive SeiZleba iTqvas sazogadoebriv

servisebzec...

putins kidev oTxi weli aqvs da

iqidan gamomdinare, TavisTvis sabolood

romel Tanamdebobas

SeirCevs, aravin icis. kidev ramden

sakonstitucio cvlilebas ganaxorcielebs,

arc es viciT, magram

axlandeli mocemulobiT, prezidents

mxolod is ufleba rCeba,

rom Tanamdebobidan premieri da

ministrebi ori mizeziT _ ndobis

dakargvisa da movaleobis arajerovnad

Sesrulebis gamo _ gaaTavisuflos.

es prezidentis xelSi

sakmaod seriozuli berketebia.

mokled, putini izrunebs, rom 2024

2 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


gaSveba ruseT-saqarTvelos urTierTobaze?

`rac Seexeba imas, rom afxazeTis Sida movlenebSi ruseTi Caeria da

situacia daalaga, es pirvelad ar momxdara. ver vityviT, rom ruseTs

xajimba ar awyobda, magram Tavidanve Canda, rom igive surkovi soxumSi mis

gadasayeneblad Cavida - moskovma dainaxa, rom afxazuri sazogadoebisTvis

xajimba miuRebeli gaxda. aseT dros ki rusebi yovelTvis imaze midian, rom

arasasurveli pirovneba martivad Camoweron~

wlis saprezidento arCevnebisTvis

seriozuli kandidati SearCios da

araa gamoricxuli, prezidentad

isev medvedevs amzadebdes.

_ ase ratom fiqrobT, batono

amiran?

_ medvedevi uSiSroebis sabWos

mdivnis, anu, praqtikulad, putinis

moadgiled gadavida. amitom araa

gamoricxuli, rom medvedevis Semdegi

Tanamdeboba prezidentoba an

uSiSroebis sabWos mdivnoba iyos.

_ Tu movlenebi am scenariT

ganviTarda, putini, Tqveni azriT,

ra Tanamdebobas daikavebs?

_ savsebiT dasaSvebia, rom putini

isev premierad mogvevlinos,

Tumca arc isaa gamoricxuli, rom

dumis zeda an qveda palatis xelmZRvaneloba

airCios, magram ar

mgonia, sakanonmdeblo saqmianoba

misTvis sasiamovno da misaRebi

iyos. iqidan gamomdinare, rom

putins ukve ise moixsenieben,

rogorc „nacionalur liders”,

araa gamoricxuli, saxelmwifo sabWos

Tavmjdomared gadainacvlos.

am versias isic amyarebs, rom aqamde,

daaxloebiT, 20 wlis ganmavlobaSi,

saxelmwifo sabWo arakonstituciuri

organo iyo, axla ki

putinma am sabWosTan mimarTebiT

sakonstitucio iniciativebi gaa-

JRera, romlis Tanaxmadac, saxelisuflebo

vertikalSi sabWos

garkveuli berketebi gadaecema.

mokled, Cans, rom putini bolomde

Camoyalibebuli araa da sxvadasxva

StosTvis saxelisuflebo

berketebis gadanawilebaze muSaobs.

amaze isic metyvelebs, rom

mTavrobis daniSvnaze dumas garkveuli

uflebebi ukve misca.

_ batono amiran, yvelaferi es,

saboloo jamSi, imas xom ar emsax-

ureba, rom putinma didi xnis

ocneba aixdinos da modernizebu-

li sabWoTa kavSiri Seqmnas?

_ putini sabWoTa kavSiris aRdgenaze

wlebia, muSaobs _ oci welia,

xelisuflebis saTaveSia, magram

ver vityviT, rom am kuTxiT

rame gansakuTrebul warmatebas

miaRwia.

sxvaTa Soris, damoukidebel

saxelmwifoTa Tanamegobroba sab-

WoTa kavSiris daSlisTanave Seiqmna,

magram dsT-s saqarTveloc gamoaklda

da _ ukrainac.

rac Seexeba ruseT-belarusis

kavSirs, putini sagrZnob warmatebas

am kuTxiTac ver aRwevs da

lukaSenkosTan mudmivad Widaobs.

vnaxoT, momaval oTx weliwadSi am

ori saxelmwifos gaerTianebas

moaxerxebs Tu vera. sxva mimarTulebiT,

ekonomikuris garda,

evraziul kavSirs vgulisxmob, seriozuli

araferia. Tu marTvis

modelze vsaubrobT, ar vici, magram

sabWoTa kavSiri, pirvel rig-

Si, 15 respublikisgan Semdgari

sivrce iyo, magram is, rac 20 wlis

ganmavlobaSi ver gaakeTa, ar mgonia,

putinma darCenil oTx weliwadSi

SeZlos, Tu, ra Tqma unda,

pirdapir agresiaze ar gadavida.

rogorc giTxariT, mTavrobis

gadadgoma ufro Sida moxmarebazea

gaTvlili, anu erTi mxriv,

protesti rom CaaxSos _ xalxs

Tavi ise moaCvenos, rogorc mzrunvelma

mamam da „nacionalurma

liderma” da, meore mxriv, 2024-

isTvis moemzados, Tu ra formiT

mogvevlineba da rogor politikur

sistemas Seqmnis.

ise, dasaSvebia, rom saxelmwifo

sabWo ssrk-s politbiuros daemsgavsos,

magram politbiuro ufro

partiuli iyo, saxelmwifo sabWo

ki gubernatorebisgan Sedgeba da

ufro sxva modelia, anu Cinovnikebisgan

dakompleqtebuli organoa,

romelic putins saSualebas

miscems, regionebi akontrolos.

_ batono amiran, ramdenjerme

xazgasmiT TqviT, rom putins ukve

„nacionalur liderad” moixsenie-

ben. zogadad, naTelia, rom bolo

dros mxolod ruseTSi ki ara,

dasavleTSic nacionaluri idee-

bi TandaTan popularuli xdeba,

rac trampis magaliTzec naTlad

Cans, anu faqtia, msoflio icvleba.

hoda, es globaluri cvlileba

da amasTan, ruseTSi ganviTare-

buli procesebi saqarTveloze

rogor aisaxeba?

_ yvelaferi es Cvenze pirdapir

gavlenas ar moaxdens.

_ ufro konkretulad?

_ Cems poziciaze vrCebi, rom

ruseTis samTavrobo Tu sakonstitucio

cvlilebebi Sida moxmarebas

emsaxureba. sagareo mimarTulebiT

ki ruseTis politika

ar Seicvleba. aseve politika arc

okupirebul teritoriebTan mimarTebiT

Seicvleba. sxvaTa Soris,

evraziuli kavSiris gafarToebac

rTulad warmomidgenia. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

evraziul kavSirSi saqarTvelosa

da ukrainis CaTreva

SeuZlebelia. marTalia, afxazeT-

Si wagebuli pirveli omis Semdeg

dsT-Si ki SevediT, magram ar mgonia,

rom es nabiji meoredac gadavdgaT,

miT umetes, ndoba nulovania

_ 2008-Si verc dsT-Si yofnam

gviSvela da verc _ sxva faqtorma.

_ sxvaTa Soris, ruseTis

samTavrobo cvlilebebamde erTgvari

bunti okupirebul afxazeTSi

daiwyo, rasac e. w. prezi-

dentis gadadgoma moyva. amasTan,

niSandoblivia, rom e. w. afxazuri

èdinaia rosias~ liderebi, magaliTad,

nemerovi, putins prezidents ki ara,

`nacionalur liders~ uwodebs, rac

SemTxveviTi araa. am termins, cxadia, sakuTari

nebiT ar iyenebs da, rogorc Cans, aseTi

miTiTeba aqvs~

opoziciis calkeuli warmomadgenlebi

TbilisTan pirdapiri dialogis

iniciativiT gamodian. yve-

laferi es ruseTis mTavrobis

gadagdebis konteqstSi xom ar

unda ganvixiloT?

_ amas ruseTis samTavrobo cvlilebebTan

ar davakavSireb.

_ ratom?

_ es absoluturad calke procesia.

_ es Tema gavSaloT.

_ afxazeTSi saprotesto aqciebi

Semodgomaze, anu maSin daiwyo,

roca adgilobrivi „kanonieri

qurdebi” mokles. amJamindel saprotesto

aqciebs, romelic xajinbas

gadayenebiT damTavrda, metwilad

swored amas ukavSireben, Torem e.

w. arCevnebi gasuli wlis seqtemberSi

Catarda da iqauri konstituciidan

gamomdinare, maSinve

Zalian kargad icodnen, rom es e.

w. arCevnebi gayalbebuli iyo, anu

am „konstituciaSi” aseTi Canaweri

yofila, rom meore adgilze gasulma

kandidatma, jamSi, gamarjvebul

kandidatsa da gabaTilebul

biuletenebze naklebi unda miiRos,

magram ise gamovida, rom

gabaTilebuli biuletenebis raodenoba

meore adgilze gasulis-

Tvis rom daematebinaT, xajimba

prezidentobas ver gaiformebda.

aqedan gamomdinare, e. w. sakonstitucio

sasamarTlom xajimbas gamarjveba

da, saerTod, arCevnebis

Sedegebi baTilad gamoacxada, Tumca

rom ara zemoxsenebuli kriminaluri

dapirispireba, yvelaferi

es ar moxdeboda, anu imis katalizatorad,

rac bolo dros afxazeTSi

moxda, kriminaluri garCevebi

miiCneva.

rac Seexeba imas, rom afxazeTis

Sida movlenebSi ruseTi Caeria da

situacia daalaga, es pirvelad ar

momxdara. ver vityviT, rom ruseTs

xajimba ar awyobda, magram

Tavidanve Canda, rom igive surkovi

soxumSi mis gadasayeneblad

Cavida _ moskovma dainaxa, rom afxazuri

sazogadoebisTvis xajimba

miuRebeli gaxda. aseT dros ki

rusebi yovelTvis imaze midian,

rom arasasurveli pirovneba martivad

Camoweron.

ise, kremlis poziciis miuxedavad,

adgilobrivebi arCevans mainc

TavianT Wkuaze akeTeben, Tumca

afxazeTSi ruseTs uzarmazari

berketebi aqvs _ samxedro baza,

ekonomika, kriminaluri kontroli.

Sesabamisad, e. w. arCevnebSi

vinc unda gaimarjvos, kontrols

mainc SeinarCunebs.

rac Seexeba pirdapir dialogsa

da Cvens molodins, aqtiurebi

unda viyoT.

_ da es aqtiuroba raSi unda

gamoixatos?

_ bevrma politikurma liderma

gaaJRera, afxazeTSi rac unda

moxdes, mainc araferi Seicvlebao,

magram, Cemi azriT, gverdiTi damkvirveblebi

ar unda viyoT, radgan

es Cveni teritoriaa da Cvens

gasakeTebels sxva ar gaakeTebs.

_ „gasakeTebelSi” ras gulisx-

mobT, batono amiran?

_ konfliqti, maincdamainc,

omiT ar unda gadawydes, radgan

ruseTTan dajaxeba TviTmkvlelobis

tolfasia, magram Cveni pozicia

aqtiuri unda iyos da komunikaciis

arc erT formatze ar unda

vTqvaT uari. es ruseTTan ki ara,

Cvens teritoriasTan saubari iqneba,

Tumca afxazebi Seecdebian, rom

Tanatolis statusiT gvesaubron.

ise, romelime afxazma liderma

rom ganacxados, mzad var, saqar-

Tvelos SemadgenlobaSi davbrundeTo,

soxumSi sakuTar pozicias

maSinve dakargavs. saerTod, imis

dabrunebas, rac omiTaa dakarguli,

wlebi sWirdeba. amitom moTmineba

da Sida sazogadoebrivi Tu

politikuri Tanxmoba unda gveyos,

rom saboloo miznamde nabij-nabij

mivideT. sxvanairad araferi gamova.

pasiur reJims ki is moaqvs, rom

orive mxares Taobebi izrdeba da

ndoba, jer kidev, SemorCenilia,

razedac Sambasa da bJanias gancxadebebic

metyvelebs, anu komunikaciis

resursi jer kidev arsebobs.

mas Semdeg ki, roca politikaSi

am xalxis SviliSvilebi movlen,

dialogi da saubari gacilebiT

rTuli iqneba!

_ batono amiran, gamoricx-

ulia, rom konfederaciis idea

gacocxldes, romelSic afxazeTs

farTo uflebebi eqneba?

_ es ase martivad ar moxdeba.

_ ratom?

_ dialogi unda daiwyos sxvadasxva

formatiT da SeiZleba, uamravi

Sexvedra dagvWirdes, raTa

Semdegi Tanacxovrebis pirveli

konturebi gamoikveTos.

aqedan gamomdinare, kidev erTxel

vimeoreb: yvelafer amisTvis

moTmineba unda gveyos da, amasTan,

pasiur reJimSic ar unda viyoT!

komunikaciebis gzebs Cven unda

veZebdeT! rac Seexeba konkretuli

liderebis gancxadebebze reaqcias,

aqac gonivrulebi unda viyoT

da vicodeT, rom iqauri nebismieri

politikosis Seqeba Tu proqarTulad

gamocxadeba am politikoss

mxolod avnebs. is politikosi

ki, romelsac mtrad gamovacxadebT,

iq SesaZloa, warmatebuli

gaxdes. mokled, gonivrulebi unda

viyoT da gauazrebeli moqmedebebi

yovlad miuRebelia! deokupaciis

sakiTxSi mTeli politikuri

speqtri erTiani unda iyos. yvela

saxelmwifos, vinc ki am kuTxiT

warmatebas miaRwia, grZelvadiani

mizani hqonda, rasac nabij-nabij

mihyveboda da Cvenc ase unda moviqceT!

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

3


`jandacvis saministrom dRemde ver SeZlo sistemis awyoba,

C hepatitis eliminaciis pro-

Tamar rostiaSvili

grama saqarTveloSi farmacev-

577 10 07 06

tul koncern „gileadisa” da aSSis

daavadebaTa kontrolis centris

daxmarebiT ganxorcielda. aRniSnuli programa afinanseb-

da mkurnalobas da ara _ kvlevas. kvlevis Rirebuleba ki 160

lari gaxldaT, rac rigiTi moqalaqisTvis arc ise patara Tanx-

aa. ra Tqma unda, iyo gamonaklisebi, magaliTad, jandacvis samin-

istrom omisa da samxedro Zalebis veteranebisTvis programaSi

CasarTavad saWiro kvlevebi 70%-iT daafinansa.

C hepatitis eliminaciis programis

dasawyebad saqarTveloSi

inficirebulTa raodenoba, specialuri

populaciuri kvleviT,

150 000 adamiani unda yofiliyo

(Tu ra kvleva iyo es da ramdenad

sworad ganisazRvra „ce” hepatitiT

daavadebulTa ricxvi, „qronika+~

am sakiTxs uaxloes publikaciaSi

daubrundeba). yovel SemTxvevaSi,

jandacvis saministros mier

warmodgenili kvlevis mixedviT,

sami wlis ganmavlobaSi mkurnaloba

50 000-mde pacientma gaiara.

darCenili 100 000 adamianis

samkurnalod ki saministrom eliminaciis

meore etapi gamoacxada.

da ra xdeba am dros? maSin,

rodesac C hepatitis eliminaciis

programaSi pacientebis Casar-

Tavad 100 000 adamiani jerac gamosavlenia,

Zvirad Rirebuli

medikamentebis nawils vada gauvida.

„qronika+” amis Sesaxeb naxevari

wlis win werda, maSin, rodesac

auditis daskvna ar ido. rom

aSS-s federaluri biuros (FBR)

warmomadgenlebi saxelmwifo usafrTxoebis

samsaxuris antikorufciuli

saagentos TanamSromlebTan

erTad C hepatitis eliminaciis

farglebSi medikamentebis

ganawilebaSi darRvevebs iZiebdnen.

medikamentebi TveSi 3500

adamianis mkurnalobaze iyo gaTvlili,

magram 2017 wlidan 1000

adamianze meti ar sargeblobda

mkurnalobiT. rogorc qarTuli,

ise amerikuli gamoZiebis winaSe

dadga sakiTxi _ iyo ki saqarTveloSi

amxela kontingenti inficirebuli

„ce” hepatitiT da

ramdenad sworad Seisyides

medikamentebis partia?

saqarTvelosTvis kompania

„gileadis” mier naCuqari wamlis

jamuri Rirebuleba 2,6 mlrd aSS

dolari gaxldaT. amasTanave,

gamokvlevebis daufinanseblobam,

gansakuTrebiT regionebSi (Tbilisis

meria CaerTo nawilis dafinansebaze),

pacientebs saerTod

gaucrua imedebi.

axla ki Sepirebuli auditis

angariSi, romelmac rogorc

qarTuli, ise amerikuli mxare

SokSi Caagdo.

saxelmwifo auditis samsaxurma

Caatara saqarTvelos okupirebuli

teritoriebidan devnilTa,

Sromis, janmrTelobisa da socialuri

dacvis saministros konsolidirebuli

finansuri angariSgebis

auditi, romelic moicavs

finansuri mdgomareobis Sesaxeb

konsolidirebul angariSgebas

2018 wlis 31 dekembris mdgomareobiT

da masTan dakavSirebuli finansuri

Sedegebis Sesaxeb konsolidirebul

angariSgebas, fuladi

saxsrebis moZraobis Sesaxeb konsolidirebul

angariSgebas, kapitalSi

cvlilebebis Sesaxeb konsolidirebul

angariSgebas, biujetisa

da faqtobrivi Tanxebis

Sedarebis konsolidirebul angariSgebas,

aseve maTTan dakav-

Sirebul danarTebs, mocemuli

TariRiT dasrulebuli saaRricxvo

periodisTvis; garda mosaxleobis

sayovelTao janmrTlobis

dacvis saxelmwifo programis

farglebSi „socialuri uzrunvelyofis”

muxliT gaweuli xarjebisa.

Cveni azriT, uaryofiTi mosazrebis

safuZvlebis abzacSi aRwerili

sakiTxebis konsolidirebul

finansur angariSgebaze gavlenis

mniSvnelobis gamo warmodgenili

konsolidirebuli finansuri

angariSgeba samarTlianad ar

asaxavs saqarTvelos okupirebuli

teritoriebidan devnilTa,

Sromis, janmrTelobisa da socialuri

dacvis saministros konsolidirebul

finansur mdgomareobas

2018 wlis 31 dekembris

mdgomareobiT; aseve misi saqmianobis

konsolidirebul finansur

Sedegebs da konsolidirebul fuladi

saxsrebis moZraobas im wlisTvis,

romelic dasrulda

mocemuli TariRiT „sabiujeto

organizaciebis buRaltruli aRricxvisa

da finansuri angariSgebis

Sesaxeb”. saqarTvelos finans-

Ta ministris 2014 wlis 31 dekembris

#429 brZanebiT damtkicebuli

instruqciis Sesabamisad,

materialuri maragebis arsebiTi

nawilia jandacvis saministros

socialuri momsaxurebis saagentos

finansur angariSgebaSi aRricxuli

C hepatitis programis

farglebSi usasyidlod miRebuli

medikamentebi. centralur aparats

„sxva danarCeni materialuri

maragebis” angariSze 2018 wlis 31

dekembris mdgomareobiT aRricxuli

aqvs 121,285 laris materialuri

maragebi, romelic, saministros

SefasebiT, Semdgomi

gamoyenebisTvis gamousadegaria.

socialuri momsaxurebis saagentos

sxva danarCeni materialuri

maragebis angariSze, 2018 wlis 31

dekembris mdgomareobiT, aRricxuli

aqvs C hepatitis marTvis

programis farglebSi 560 645,083

laris vadagasuli medikamenti. vadagasuli

medikamentebis Sesaxeb

informacia Semdegia: interferoni

_ 1 222, ribavirini _ 5 547, zepatieri

_ 2 268, sovaldi _ 16 834,

harvoni _ 205 003. saagentos ganmartebiT,

medikamentebis vadis

gasvlis ZiriTadi mizezi iyo is,

rom 2017 wlis ivlisidan mkveTrad

Semcirda beneficiarTa momarTvianoba.

aseve programis amoqmedebis

Tavdapirvel etapze

(2015 weli) ZiriTadi samkurnalo

preparati iyo sofosbuviri (sovaldi),

romelic samkurnalo re-

Jimebis mixedviT iniSneboda sxva

medikamentebTan (interferoni da

ratom Caagdo SokSi

amerikuli koncerni

Gilead Sciences-i

saqarTvelos

saxelmwifo

auditis angariSma?

àRniSnuli mosalodneli valdebulebebisa da

ZiriTadi aqtivebis Sinaarsisa da daniSnulebis

Sesaxeb informaciis arwarmodgenis faqti

finansur angariSgebaSi zrdis finansuri

angariSgebis im momxmareblebis mxridan

(parlamenti, finansTa saministro) araswori

gadawyvetilebis miRebis SesaZleblobas,

romlebic afaseben saministros mier

momsaxurebis miwodebis adekvaturi donis

SenarCunebas. arasrulad (Semcirebulad)

warmodgenili informacia iwvevs saministroze

gasanawilebeli sabiujeto resursis Sesaxeb

araadekvaturi gadawyvetilebis miRebis

SesaZleblobasa da safrTxis winaSe ayenebs

beneficiarebisTvis samedicino servisebis,

rogorc miwodebis SesaZleblobas"

ribavirini) kombinaciiT. 2016 wlis

Tebervlidan aRniSnuli preparati

Canacvlda axali Taobis

medikamentiT _ harvoniT, romlis

mixedviT Seicvala samkurnalo

reJimebi da aRniSnulma mkveTrad

Seamcira Tavdapirvel etapze

gamoyenebuli preparatebis (sofosbuviri,

interferoni da ribavirini)

moxmareba. aseve, saagentos

ganmartebiT, arsebobs mkurnalobis

TviTneburi Sewyvetis an

gardacvalebis faqtebi. saagentos

mier warmodgenili informaciiT,

mkurnalobis reJimebis

gaTvaliswinebiT, vadagasuli

medikamenti warmoadgens saSualod

Semdegi raodenobis pacientis

samkurnalo saSualebas

(cxrili #7).

finansur angariSgebaSi moklevadiani

aqtivebis saboloo naS-

Ti gazrdilia 560 766 368 lariT.

C hepatitis marTvis saxelmwifo

programis farglebSi 2018

wels 41-ma samedicino dawesebulebam

daafiqsira 25 495 Setyobineba.

monitoringi saerTod ar

ganxorcielebula 80%-Si, kerZod:

33 samedicino dawesebulebaSi,

romelTac dafiqsirebuli aqvT 20

095 Setyobineba, ar Semowmebula

SetyobinebaTa 79%. amasTanave,

Setyobinebebi dafiqsirebulia 9

regionSi, saidanac 5 regionSi

monitoringi ar ganxorcielebula.

2018 wels, sayovelTao janmrTelobis

dacvis programis farglebSi,

332-ma samedicino dawesebulebam

daafiqsira 1 423 085

SemTxveva, saidanac Semowmebulia

23%, sul 333 431 SemTxveva. monitoringi

saerTod ar ganxorcielebula

35%-Si, kerZod, 115 samedicino

dawesebulebaSi, romelTac

wlis ganmavlobaSi dafiqsirebuli

hqondaT 70 035 Setyobineba.

saagentos ganmartebiT, efeqtiani

monitoringisTvis SerCevisas prioriteti

eniWeba gadaudebeli stacionaruli

momsaxurebis (gansakuTrebiT

kompleqsur, ramdenime

programuli kodis Semcvel da

gaxangrZlivebul) SemTxvevas, ri-

Tac aris ganpirobebuli, Ziri-

Tadad, ambulatoriuli, dRis stacionaris

(gegmuri qirurgiuli

operaciebi, ZiriTadad _ ofTalmologia),

monoprofiluri SemTxvevebis

nakleb prioritetuloba.

janmrTelobis dacvis programis

farglebSi 2018 wels 14 250 Setyobineba

daafiqsira 43-ma samedicino

dawesebulebam, ganxorcielda

4 583 SemTxvevis monitoringi.

aRsaniSnavia, rom 7 samedicino

dawesebulebaSi dafiqsirda 1 329

SemTxveva, TiToeulis mier dafiqsirebuli

SemTxvevebis 84% da meti

Semowmda maSin, roca 11 samedicino

dawesebulebaSi, romelmac

1 266 Setyobineba daafiqsires,

monitoringi ar ganxorcielebula.

mTeli wlis ganmavlobaSi xarjTaRricxvis

cvlilebebiT, 16

programuli kodis SemTxvevaSi, 87

920 387 lari gadanawilebulia

sxva programebidan an sarezervo

fondebidan, maT Soris, dekember-

Si _ 67 378 729 lari. aRniSnuli

qmnis calkeuli programis farglebSi

dagegmili RonisZiebebis

dafinansebisTvis saWiro saxsreb-

4 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


rom mTelma mosaxleobam gaiaros skriningi~

is deficitisa da dasaxuli miznebis

Seusruleblobis risks. amasTanave,

mosaxleobis sayovelTao

janmrTelobis dacvis programisTvis

saministrom sabiujeto

ganacxadiT (Wers zeviT) moiTxova

720 000 000 lari da daumtkicda

704 000 000 lari. sxva programuli

kodebidan gadmotanilma

Tanxam Seadgina 56 410 090 lari,

saidanac dekemberSi gadmotanilia

47 360 090 lari, programis biujeti

ki, masSi ganxorcielebuli

arsebiTi cvlilebebis miuxedavad,

wlebis ganmavlobaSi mzardia.

„C hepatitis marTva” biujetis

kanoniT 15 400 000 laris odenobiT

ganisazRvra, Tumca aTvisebulia

mxolod 4 741 000 lari, 10 656

000 lari ki gadanawilda sxva programebze.

saministros mxridan

warmodgenili ganmartebiT, dabali

aTvisebis maCvenebeli gamowveulia

pacientTa raodenobis

klebiT. aRsaniSnavia, rom es qveprograma

bolo wlebSi mudmivad

dabali aTvisebis maCvenebliT xasiaTdeba,

rac biujetis dagegmvis

etapze saministros ar gauTvaliswinebia.

aseve gamovlinda SemTxvevebi,

romelic ar warmoadgenda

gauTvaliswinebel gadasaxdelebs

da SesaZlebeli iyo amis gaTvaliswineba

biujetis dagegmvis etapze.

kerZod, saministros 2014

wlidan 2018 wlis CaTvliT periodSi,

„soflis eqimis” programis

farglebSi, kontraqtiT gaformebuli

eqimebisa da eqTnebis erTjeradi

gasacemlis dasafinanseblad

auTvisebeli Tanxa „socialuri

uzrunvelyofisa” da „saqoneli

da momsaxurebis” muxlidan

gadahqonda „sxva xarjebis” muxl-

Si. aRniSnulma Tanxam 2018 wels

Seadgina 588 000 lari. mosaxleobis

miznobrivi jgufebis socialuri

daxmarebis qveprogramidan

sxva programebze gadatanili asignebebis

odenobam 39 304 000 lari

Seadgina, maSin rodesac saministros

mosaxleobis miznobrivi

jgufebis socialuri daxmarebis

qveprogramisTvis saqarTvelos

mTavrobis sarezervo fondidan

2018 wels miRebuli aqvs 2 688 077

lari, „socialurad daucveli

mosaxleobis mier moxmarebuli

eleqtroenergiis Rirebulebis

nawilobrivi subsidirebis Sesaxeb”

saqarTvelos mTavrobis 2015

wlis 30 ivlisis #381 dadgenilebis

Sesasruleblad. aRniSnuli

RonisZiebis dasafinanseblad,

saqarTvelos mTavrobis sarezervo

fondidan Tanxebi gamoyofilia

wina wlebSic: 2015 wels _ 1 158

000 lari, 2016 wels _ 3 812 079

lari da 2017 wels _ 2 789 347

lari. damtkicebul biujetSi

buferuli xasiaTis qveprogramebis

arsebobis xarjze xarjTaRricxvaSi

xSiri da arsebiTi xasia-

Tis koreqtirebebi ayalibebs damtkicebuli

sabiujeto parametrebisgan

gansxvavebul prioritetebs.

faqtobrivad, saministros 2018

wlis 31 dekembris mdgomareobiT

valdebuleba aqvs, romelic vadisa

da Tanxis dazustebas saWiroebs.

auditis obieqtis informaciiT,

sayovelTao janmrTelobis

dacvis programis farglebSi,

angariSgebis modulSi 2018 wels

samedicino dawesebulebebis

dafiqsirebuli Sesrulebuli samuSaoebis

jamuri Rirebuleba,

romelTa inspeqtirebac 2018 wlis

31 dekembris mdgomareobiT ar iyo

dasrulebuli, Seadgenda 201 299

806 lars. aseve warmodgenili informaciiT,

samedicino dawesebulebebis

mier moTxovnili asanazRaurebeli

Tanxebidan, saSualod,

3,56% koreqtirdeba. informacia

saagentos referaluri momsaxurebis

programis farglebSi,

2019 wels anazRaurebulisa da

2018 wlis Sesrulebebis Sesaxeb,

sul _ 882 570 lari. faqtobrivi

mdgomareobiT saministros 2018

wlis 31 dekembers valdebuleba

hqonda, romelic saWiroebda dazustebas

da pirveladi dokumentis

miReba-Cabarebis aqtis Sedgenas.

Sedegad, 2018 wlis 31 dekembris

mdgomareobiT, 2019 wlis

mosalodneli xarji da valdebuleba,

2018 wlis Sesrulebebis

Sesabamisad, Seadgens 195 016 102

lars. ar aris asaxuli informacia

im ZiriTadi aqtivebis Sinaarsisa

da daniSnulebis Sesaxeb,

romelic saministros SeZenili

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

`medikamentebi TveSi 3500 adamianis mkurnalobaze iyo gaTvlili, magram

2017 wlidan 1000 adamianze meti ar sargeblobda mkurnalobiT. rogorc

qarTuli, ise amerikuli gamoZiebis winaSe dadga sakiTxi - iyo ki

saqarTveloSi amxela kontingenti inficirebuli `ce~ hepatitiT da

ramdenad sworad Seisyides medikamentebis partia?

saqarTvelosTvis kompania `gileadis~ mier naCuqari wamlis jamuri

Rirebuleba 2,6 mlrd aSS dolari gaxldaT. amasTanave, gamokvlevebis

daufinanseblobam, gansakuTrebiT regionebSi (Tbilisis meria CaerTo

nawilis dafinansebaze), pacientebs saerTod gaucrua imedebi~

aqvs devnilTa grZelvadiani sacxovrebliT

uzrunvelyofis mizniT.

aRniSnuli safuZvliT aRricxuli

ZiriTadi aqtivebis sabalanso

Rirebuleba Seadgens 120 623

024 lars, xolo daumTavrebeli

ZiriTadi aqtivebisa _ 40 258 656

lars. aRniSnuli mosalodneli

valdebulebebisa da ZiriTadi aqtivebis

Sinaarsisa da daniSnulebis

Sesaxeb informaciis arwarmodgenis

faqti finansur angariSgebaSi

zrdis finansuri angariSgebis

im momxmareblebis mxridan (parlamenti,

finansTa saministro)

araswori gadawyvetilebis miRebis

SesaZleblobas, romlebic

afaseben saministros mier momsaxurebis

miwodebis adekvaturi

donis SenarCunebas. arasrulad

(Semcirebulad) warmodgenili informacia

iwvevs saministroze

gasanawilebeli sabiujeto resursis

Sesaxeb araadekvaturi gadawyvetilebis

miRebis SesaZleblobasa

da safrTxis winaSe ayenebs

beneficiarebisTvis samedicino

servisebis, rogorc miwodebis

SesaZleblobas”.

ai, mokled, ra weria „im” skandalur

angariSSi.

`vadagasuli medikamentebi es aris sruli kraxi

ara marto qarTuli mxarisTvis, aramed,

aranaklebi, - kompania `gileadisTvisac~

daviT sergeenko saxelmwifo

auditis samsaxuris am angariSma

(romelsac „qronika+~ eqskluzi-

urad aqveynebs) SokSi Caagdo.

misma gancxadebamac ar daayovna:

„saqarTvelo am medikaments

iRebs ufasod. saxelmwifo auditis

samsaxuri valdebuli iyo,

rom raRac ganfaseba gaekeTebina

am donaciaze da vvaraudob, rom

maT aiRes „vikipediaSi” an raime

aseT portalSi nanaxi 2016 wlis

fasebi, sadac es marTlac maRali

Rirebulebisaa. 2018 wels es

medikamenti ukve rvajer naklebi

Rirda, Tumca amas ar aqvs mniSvneloba.

erTaderTi mniSvneloba

aqvs SedarebisTvis _ Tu igive

fasebs aviRebT, gamova, rom dReis

mdgomareobiT Cven ukve 17 miliardi

laris medikamenti gvaqvs

daxarjuli im 65 aTasi pacientis

mkurnalobaze”.

anu saxelmwifo eqspertizis

biuros TanamSromlebi araprofesionalebad

gamoiyvana. aSS-is

gamoZiebis biuros agentebic sul

„vikipediaSi” nanaxi fasebis gamo

Camovidnen saqarTveloSi! raRac

ar maxsovs, msgavsi gancxadeba

gaekeTebinos yofil jandacvis

ministrs amerikuli mxaris mier

Catarebul gamoZiebaze _ ki iyo

maSin gasusuli! maleve gadadga

Tu gadaayenes...

yofili jandacvis ministris,

zurab WiaberaSvili gancxadebiT,

marTalia, oTxi wlis ganmavloba-

Si, skriningis Sedegad, 123 000-ze

met adamians daudginda C hepatitis

savaraudo diagnozi, magram

ganmeorebiTi, e. w. konfirmaciuli

kvlevis Sedegad, daavadeba

daudginda mxolod 64 200 adamians.

maSin romel meore etapze da

ra 150 aTas daavadebul pacientzea

saubari?

zurab WiaberaSvili:

_ 2015 wlidan, rac C hepatitis

aRmofxvris programa daiwyo,

Tavad me minimum 8-jer mqonda

Sexeba samedicino dawesebulebasTan,

aqedan 6-jer profilaqtikuri

laboratoriuli kvlevebisTvis.

arc erTxel arc erT

dawesebulebas, miT umetes, laboratorias

CemTvis C hepatitis

skriningisTvis „swrafi testi” ar

gaukeTebia. arada, TiTqos martivia

xom? mixvedi poliklinikaSi,

saavadmyofoSi, avtomaturad

sistema gitarebs skrinings (sabolood,

2019 wlis martSi Cavitare

testi da amaSi gadavixade 24

lari). jandacvis saministrom

dRemde ver SeZlo amis awyoba,

rom mTelma mosaxleobam gaiaros

skriningi, rac aucilebeli sawyisi

etapia imisTvis, rom am daavadebis

srul aRmofxvramde mivideT.

amiran gamyreliZe ambobs:

„2,8 milioni mozrdili adamianidan,

vinc cxovrobs saqarTvelo-

Si, ukve skrinirebuli gvyavs daaxloebiT

1 750 000, anu 60%-ze

meti”. kiTxva: SeiZleboda Tu ara

programis mTel qveyanaSi gaSla

ise, rom igi soflis eqimis doneze

davides da mosaxleoba mTlianad

swrafad moicvas? da isev,

SeiZleboda Tu ara 2019 wlis

agvistomde wamlamde misasvleli

yvela etapi _ „swrafi testi”, „dadasturebis

testi” da diagnostikuri

kvleva _ ufaso da geografiulad

xelmisawvdomi yofiliyo?

2018 wels jandacvis saministrom

„C hepatitis eliminaciis

programaze” 15 mln. laris daxarjva

dagegma da mxolod 6.4 mln.

lari daxarja, xolo 2019 wlisTvis

dagegmili 11 mln.-dan pirvel

9 TveSi mxolod 4.3 mln. hqonda

aTvisebuli.

kidev iciT, ra aris saintereso?

rodesac jandacvis saministrom

dainaxa programaSi CarTvis

dabali maCvenebli, ra sainformacio

kampania Caatara? konkretuli

magaliTebiT Seafasa, ramdenad

efeqtiani iyo es kampania?

am ori yofili jandacvis ministris

debatebis fonze, mxolod

parlamentis jandacvis komitetis

Tavmjdomare kaki zoiZe kiTxvaze,

rom iyo Tu ara xarvezebi programis

dagegmvaSi da ganxorcieleba-

Si? _pasuxobda, ra Tqma unda, iyo,

aris da, albaT, iqneba, rodesac

msoflioSi pirvelad akeTeb ra-

Racaso. magram mTavaria, rogor

da ramdenad swrafad da efeqtianad

reagireb am xarvezebzeo.

xarvezebis aRmofxvraze ra

mogaxsenoT, magram amerikis SeerTebul

StatebSi, Gilead Sciences-is

mier warmoebuli „sovaldis” 1 abi

1000 dolari Rirs, xolo preparat

„havroniT” mkurnalobis 12-

kviriani kursi _ 89 000 dolari.

qarTuli mxaris mier am preparatebis

SeZena „gileadisTvis”,

realurad, investiciaa: proeqtis

warmateba daexmareba kompanias

msoflio masStabiT C hepatitis

eliminaciis programa danergos.

rac mTavaria, saqarTveloSi gankurnebuli

kontigenti amerikul

kompanias daexmareba, dafinansebuli

programebis aucilebloba

dausabuTos sxva qveynebis mTavrobebs.

ase rom, vadagasuli medikamentebi

es aris sruli kraxi

ara marto qarTuli mxarisTvis,

aramed, aranaklebi, _ kompania

„gileadisTvisac”.

5


ègvipturi warmoebis wamali

„qarTulma ocnebam” moaxerxa

Sorena marsagiSvili

da mravlismnaxveli saqarTvelo

599 92 16 22

kidev erTxel gaaoca. jandacvis

sferos warmomadgenlebma, yove-

lgvari sindisis qenjnis gareSe, gvamcnes, rom C hepatitis

marTvis programis farglebSi saqarTvelos mier usasyidlod

miRebul 560.645.083 laris Rirebulebis medikamentebs vada

gauvida. mravalxelisufleba gamonacvali amiran gamyreliZe,

romelic daavadebaTa kontrolis erovnul centrs xelmZRvanelobs,

ufro Sors wavida da iqiT dasdo vali aRSfoTebul

sazogadoebas _ jobs, naSTi dagvrCes, vidre dagvak-

ldeso. albaT, mxolod mas SeuZlia naSTi uwodos naxevari

miliardis Rirebulebis vadagasul wamlebs.

C hepatitis mkurnalobis

programa saqarTveloSi ramdenime

wlis win daiwyo. am programis

farglebSi 58.000 adamianma

ukve gaiara mkurnalobis sruli

kursi. es programa 2020 wels

unda dasrulebuliyo, magram

man kidev ramdenime wliT gadaiwia.

aRniSnul programas amerikis

SeerTebuli Statebi afinansebs.

am programis fargleb-

Si aTeulobiT aTasi adamiani

ganikurna.

C hepatitis programa

saqarTveloSi ukve ramdenjerme

gaxda seriozuli skandalis

mizezi. rogorc amboben, erTerT

skandals Seewira daviT

sergeenkoc. saqarTvelosTvis

saCuqrad gadmocemuli ZviradRirebuli

wamlebi ruseTSi

Sav bazarze moxvda. mediaSi

gavrcelebuli informaciiT,

amerikelebma am saqmis gamoZieba

daiwyes. mediaSi daiwera isic,

rom qarTul mxares es wamlebi

ruseTSi afxazebisa da osebis

daxmarebiT gahqonda. programis

farglebSi mkurnalobis kurss

afxazebi da osebic gadian.

aris eWvi, rom wamlebi, romlebzec

gviTxres, vadagasuliao,

gayidulia, srulad Tu ara,

nawilobriv mainc. gaqra Tu ara

wamlebi, es gamoZiebam unda

daadginos. gamoZiebas „ce” hepatitis

mkurnalobis programis

mimarTulebiT sxva samuSaos

Catarebac mouwevs. adamianebis

nawili, romlebmac mkurnalobis

kursi gaiares, daviT sergeenkosa

da amiran gamyreliZis winaa-

Rmdeg sarCelis Setanas apireben.

isini axla TurqeTisa da evropis

qveynebis klinikebSi

mkurnaloben. programis dasrulebis

Semdeg maT RviZlze simsivnuri

wanazardebi ganuviTardaT.

„ce” hepatitis samkurnalo

kursi gela CxeiZemac gaiara. mas

dRemde mwared axsovs, rogor

idga aseulobiT adamianTan er-

Tad saaTobiT wamlis rigSi da

rogor awvdidnen celofanSi

Cayril wamlebs fanjridan policielebi.

axsovs, Tu rogor

Caanacvles amerikuli preparati

egvipturiT da rogor imoqmeda

aman pacientebze.

C hepatitis programis bnel

mxareebsa da mis savalalo

Sedegebze gela CxeiZe „qroni-

ka+~-s esaubreba:

_ sazogadoeba SokSi Cavar-

da, roca gaigo, rom „ce” hepatitis

samkurnalod gamoyofili

560 milionis Rirebuleb-

is wamlebs vada gauvida. amiran

gamyreliZem gviTxra, rom

jobs, naSTi darCes, vidre dag-

vakldeso. amaze ra komentaris

gakeTeba SeiZleba?

_ naxevari miliardis Rirebulebis

wamlebs rom vada gauyvanes,

es saSinelebaa, magram

aranaklebi saSinelebaa is, rac

mxolod im adamianebma viciT,

vinc es kursi gaviareT. Tavidanve

minda giTxraT, rom es ar

yofila mkurnaloba, es iyo mxolod

wamlebis muWaSi Cayra.

pirvel nakads sovaldiT da

ribaveriniT mkurnalobdnen.

adamianebis nawili, romlebmac

es preparatebi miiRes, dRes

evropisa da TurqeTis klinikebSi

mkurnaloben. maT Soris var

mec. vinc am wamlebs vRebulobdiT,

Zalian bevrs RviZlze simsivnuri

wanazardebi gagviCnda.

arada, gviTxres, rom vinc es

kursi gaiara, RviZlze simsivne

aRar ganuviTardebao.

_ am wamlebma gamoiwvia sim-

sivnuri wanazardebis gaCena? es

dazustebulia?

_ arc erTi evropeli eqimi ar

ambobs, rom es sovaldis an ribaverinis

bralia. Turqi eqimebi

ki pirdapir amboben, rom Rvi-

Zlze simsivnuri wanazardebis

gaCena „ce” hepatitis arasworma

mkurnalobam gamoiwvia. aq kidev

erTxel unda davazusto, rom

rac Cven gaviareT, es ar yofila

mkurnaloba. mkurnaloba saxelad

erqva, Torem kursi mxolod

wamlis gadacemiT Semoifargleboda.

dRes pacientebs ukve harvoniT

mkurnaloben. es sovald-

Tan da ribaverinTan SedarebiT

uwyinari da efeqtiani preparatia.

rodesac aq „ce” hepatitis

mkurnalobis programa daiwyo,

es wamali maSinac arsebobda,

magram Cven, ratomRac, sxva

preparatebi _ ribaverini da

sovaldi avirCieT.

zemoT giTxariT, rom kursi,

romelic Cven gaviareT, ar iyo

mkurnaloba. mkurnaloba sul

sxva ramea. sanam CvenTan es programa

Semovidoda, qarTvelebi

„ce” hepatitis samkurnalod

evropaSi midiodnen, iq ltolvilebad

bardebodnen. iqauri

xelisufleba maT „ce” hepatitze

mkurnalobda. mkurnalobis

kursi an samTviani iyo, an eqvs-

gela CxeiZe:

àrasaTanado

mkurnalobis gamo C

hepatitis programis

monawileTa nawils

RviZlze simsivnuri

wanazardebi gauCnda~

Tviani. am adamianebs an wiTeli

jvris klinikaSi awvendnen, an

romelime arasamTavrobo organizaciis

klinikaSi, an ltolvilTa

banakSi. mTeli am kursis

ganmavlobaSi isini eqimebis mudmivi

meTvalyureobis qveS iyvnen.

wamalsac ki eqimebis meTvalyureobiT

svamdnen. Zalian bevrma

Cemma nacnobma gaiara evropa-

Si wlebis winaT es kursi da Sin

gankurnebuli Camovida. CvenTan

rac xdeboda, amas ar erqva mkurnaloba.

es iyo adamianebis damcireba,

Seuracxyofa, abuCad

agdeba.

_ ras gulisxmobT, roca am-

bobT, rom es iyo adamianebis

damcireba?

_ am yvelafris momswre Tavad

rom ar viyo, ver davijerebdi,

rom aseTi rame SeiZleboda

momxdariyo. damcireba iyo aba,

ra?! _ aseulobiT adamiani rig-

`yvela Cvengani mainc damSvidebuli iyo, radgan

vicodiT, rom vinc `ce~ hepatitis mkurnalobis

kursi gaiara, mas RviZlis kibo ar

ganuviTardeboda. axla Tqven gelaparakebaT

adamiani, romelsac 5 kera ganuviTarda

RviZlze. amJamad evropaSi vmkurnalob~

Si videqiT gareT, sicxeSi, siciveSi,

wvimaSi da saaTebi velodiT,

Tu rodis mogvcemdnen

wamlebs. TveSi erTxel mivdiodiT

wamlebisTvis. erTi Tvis

marags gvaZlevdnen. dacva fanjridan

gvawvdida xolme celofanSi

Cayril wamlebs. ori Tvis

Tavze momiloces, ganikurneo.

amis miuxedavad, 12-Tviani kursi

daminiSnes.

_ Tu gankurnebuli iyaviT,

ratom daginiSnes damatebiTi

kursi?

_ asea saWiroo. meti ganmarteba

ar mouciaT. wavikiTxe

saTanado literatura da 12-

Tviani kursi arasad yofila.

amaT, ratomRac, raRac gansakuTrebuli

midgoma hqondaT.

pirvel etapze amerikuli

warmoebis ribaverinsa da sovalds

gavaZlevdnen. am preparatebis

nawili inglisuri da kanaduri

warmoebis iyo. ori Tvis

Semdeg, ratomRac, egvipturi

warmoebis ribaverinis mocema

daiwyes. wavikiTxe, rom egvipte-

Si „ce” hepatitis mkurnalobis

programa Cavarda, iseve rogorc

CvenTan, iqac ver moabes Tavi am

programis ganxorcielebas. mkurnalobis

programa, marTalia,

Caagdes, magram fabrika aaSenes,

sadac ribaverinis warmoeba daiwyes.

gvaZlevdnen egvipturi

warmoebis wamlebs da amiT Semoifarglebodnen.

sruli pasuxismgeblobiT

geubnebiT, saer-

Tod arafers akontrolebdnen.

arc is ainteresebdaT, ras vWamdiT,

arc imas gveubnebodnen,

SegveZlo Tu ara fizikuri

datvirTva. sruli ukontroloba

iyo, TiTqos, arc ki exebodaT.

_ saerTod arafers akontr-

olebdnen? es warmoudgenelia.

_ warmoudgenelia, magram

asea. sisxls vabarebdiT TveSi

erTxel, eg iyo da eg. sxvas rom

moeyola, ar davijerebdi, magram

es yvelaferi sakuTar

Tavze gamovcade.

„ce” hepatitis programis dawyebidan

maleve aRmoCnda, rom

ribaverinis moxmareba suicidisadmi

midrekilebas iwvevda. es

Cvenma jandacvis sistemamac

aRiara. amis gamo fsiqotropuli

wamlebic ki dauniSnes programaSi

CarTul pacientebs, ra-

Ta isini suicidamde ar misuliyvnen.

_ am programaSi CarTul ad-

amianebs hqondaT suicidis

mcdeloba? Tqven iciT aseTi

faqtebis Sesaxeb rame?

_ konkretulad arafris Tqma

ar minda. statistikas Tu moviSveliebT

vnaxavT, rom im periodSi

sagrZnoblad imata suicidis

faqtebma, gaxSirda suicidis

mcdelobebic. es faqtebi

seriozul Seswavlas saWiroebs.

adre Tu gvian, maT mainc Seiswavlian.

saubari imaze daviwyeT, Tu

rogor gauyvanes vada naxevari

miliardis Rirebulebis

wamlebs. CemTvis es didi mou-

6 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.



lodneloba ar yofila. ribaverins

ise gvaZlevdnen, rom

wkipze iyo. vadis gasvlamde

erTi Tve rom hqonda darCenili,

maSin gvirigebdnen wamals.

Tan ambobdnen, rom wamlis gamoyeneba

vadis gasvlidan erTiori

Tvis Semdegac SeiZlebao.

amas sxva medikamentebzec ambobdnen.

_ ar aprotestebdiT, rom

vadis gasvlamde cota xniT

adre gaZlevdnen am wamlebs?

_ ar vaprotestebdiT, radganac

kurss wamlis vadis gasvlamde

ramdenime dRiT adre vasrulebdiT.

yvela Cvengani mainc

damSvidebuli iyo, radgan vicodiT,

rom vinc „ce” hepatitis

mkurnalobis kursi gaiara, mas

RviZlis kibo ar ganuviTardeboda.

axla Tqven gelaparakebaT

adamiani, romelsac 5 kera ganuviTarda

RviZlze. amJamad evropaSi

vmkurnalob. aq ar meubnebian,

rom am wamlebis moxmarebam

gamoiwvia es yvelaferi. mxolod

imas amboben, rom SesaZlebeliao.

wamlebi sawyobebSi gamoketes

da rogorc amboben, arc is

raodenoba Cans im vadagasul

wamlebSi.

_ gaanadgures, gayides, Tu

sad gaaqres?

_ es gamoZiebam unda daadginos.

mxolod varaudis doneze

SemiZlia saubari. am saqmeze,

wesiT, gamoZieba ukve dawyebulic

unda iyos. naxevari miliardis

Rirebulebis wamlebis vadis

gasvla ar aris arc patara da

arc SemTxveviTi ambavi.

CvenTan aseT saqmeebs ar iZieben.

viRac raRacas ityvis, amaze

saxelmwifo ganerviuldeba,

iyvirebs, iCxubebs, mere gabrazebul

xalxs dialogze daibarebs.

ramdenime TveSi gamoCndeba, rom

naxevari miliardis wamals vada

gauvida da sawyobSi imis naxevari

wamali iqneba, vidre unda

iyos. gamoZiebam saswrafod unda

daadginos: viRacas gadaucvales

raRacaSi es wamlebi

Tu gayides...

_ gasul wels informacia

iyo, rom amerikelebma ruseTSi

Sav bazarze aRmoaCines maT

mier saqarTveloSi gamogzavni-

li wamlebi. amboben, sergeenko

amas Seewirao. iyo varaudi, rom

Cveni xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebma

wamlebi ruseTSi afx-

azebisa da osebis daxmarebiT

gaitanes.

_ afxazebic da osebic Rebulobdnen

am wamals. isinic Cven-

Tan erTad idgnen rigSi. ar gamovricxav,

rom ruseTSi maTi

daxmarebiT moxvda es ZviradRirebuli

wamlebi. „ce” hepatitis

mkurnalobis programa ruseTSi

sadazRvevo xaziT mimdinareobs.

iq es wamali ufaso ar aris,

rogorc CvenTan. wamlis Sovna

SeiZleboda mxolod sadazRvevo

kompaniebisgan. mere Sav bazarzec

gaCnda es wamali. aris

eWvi, rom is iq saqarTvelodan

Sevida.

`daviT sergeenko da amiran

gamyreliZe quCaSi Tavisuflad

ver unda dadiodnen~

daiwyos gamoZieba da yvelaferi

gairkveva. gamoZiebam isic

unda gaarkvios, Tu ratom Caanacvles

amerikuli ribaverini

egvipturiT. amerikul ribaverins

mxolod ori Tve viRebdiT.

egvipturi wamlis yvela ukmayofilo

iyo. saaTobiT gviwevda

rigSi dgoma da erTmaneTs vesaubrebodiT.

_ ratom iyaviT egvipturi

preparatiT ukmayofilo? ra

gverdiTi movlenebi hqonda

mas?

_ nervuli fonis gamwvaveba

moyva am wamlis miRebas, _ Tavis

gakontroleba giWirs da advilad

brazdebi.

mokled: saqarTvelos Zalian

bevri moqalaqe vmkurnalobT

evropasa da TurqeTSi. Cven gaviareT

„ce” hepatitis kursi da

RviZlze simsivnuri wanazardebi

gagviCnda. bevri verc axerxebs

samkurnalod wasvlas. evropeli

eqimebi marTla mkurnaloben

„ce” hepatits, saqarTvelosgan

gansxvavebiT.

_ Tqven rodis gaigeT, rom

cudad iyaviT?

_ SarSan, ivnisSi, gavrilovi

rom Camoiyvanes da aqcia daanonsda,

Cems ojaxTan erTad

goridan Camovedi TbilisSi

protestis gamosaxatavad. aqciis

dasaSlelad cremlsadeni

gazic gamoiyenes. meore diliT

cudad viyavi. vifiqreT, rom an

momwamlavi nivTiereba iyo aqciaze

gamoyenebuli, an „ce” hepatitis

mkurnaloba ar iyo dasrulebuli.

wavedi da gavesinje

„ce” hepatitze. damades Tu ara

aparati, egreve miTxres, _ vaime,

simsivne gaqvT ganviTarebuli

RviZlzeo. es iyo 21 ivnisis dilas.

mas mere vebrZvi amas. 5

wanazardi iyo. oTxi lokalizebulia,

erTiRa darCa.

_ mag erTsac daamarcxebT.

_ ver getyviT, magram imedi

maqvs. Cemma ojaxma moisurva,

rom SeenarCunebina meuRle da

mama. yvelaferi gavyideT da

evropaSi wamovediT. uZvires operaciebsa

da mkurnalobas gavdivar.

Cems dReSi, albaT, bevria,

magram umetesobas ar Seu-

Zlia am mkurnalobis gavla. ra

unda Tqva adamianma, veRar vigeb.

_ yvelaferi gavyideo. e. i.

Tqven ixdiT am mkurnalobis

fuls?

_ egRa akliaT, mkurnaloba

dagvifinanson. Zalian mZime

saqmea. saubaric miWirs. me amis

ase datovebas ar vapireb. ukve

vesaubre advokatebs. isini

Tanaxmani arian, am saqmes xeli

mokidon. daiwyeben muSaobas da

kidev bevri rame gamoifineba.

daviT sergeenko da amiran

gamyreliZe quCaSi Tavisuflad

ver unda dadiodnen, isini cixeSi

unda isxdnen.

am Temaze saubrisas sul rig-

Si gatarebuli dro maxsendeba.

Tavad kondicionerebian oTaxebSi

brZandebodnen, Cven ki saa-

TobiT videqiT quCaSi wamlis

rigSi. ramdenjerme vTqvi da

kidev gavimeoreb: es Zalian damamcirebeli

iyo! dRemde ver vxsni,

Tu ratom Secvales amerikuli

preparati egvipturiT?

Tu cvlidnen, kanaduriT an inglisuriT

mainc SeecvalaT.

gamoZiebam amazec unda imuSaos.

gamoZiebam unda daadginos,

Tu ratom gvaZlevdnen wamlebs

mxolod maSin, roca maT vada

gasdioda?! es ubralo damTxveva

ar iqneboda. damTxveva rom

araa, es axlaxan damtkicda. Tavad

aRiares, rom naxevari miliardis

wamals vada gauyvanes.

vimeoreb: TurqeTis klinikebSi

myofebs Turqi eqimebi pirdapir

eubnebian, rom maT RviZlze

simsivnuri wanazardebi

arasworad Catarebuli mkurnalobis

Sedegad ganuviTardaT.

mainteresebs, amxela programa

rom daviwyeT, gvyavda Sesabamisi

specialistebi? amboben, rom

evropaSi gaiares staJirebao.

evropaSi Tu gaiares staJireba,

rogor moxda, rom wamlebis mu-

WaSi CayriT Semoifarglnen?!

evropasa da TurqeTSi wamalsac

ki eqimis meTvalyureobiT svam.

aq erTi Tvis marags parkSi gviyridnen

da saxlSi gvatandnen.

imasac ki aravin akontrolebda,

vsvamdiT Tu ara am wamals. imaze

aRarafers vambob, ra damcirebulebi

viyaviT, fanjridan wamlis

mowodebas rom velodebodiT.

_ amas ukve ramdenjerme gau-

sviT xazi, Tan iseTi simwriT

ambobT, warmovidgine, ras gr-

ZnobdiT rigSi myofi adamiane-

bi.

_ amis warmodgena Znelia.

„ce” hepatitis mkurnalobis

kurss mTeli saqarTvelodan

Camosulebi gadiodnen. yvela

raionSi aris saavadmyofo. xom

SeiZleboda, adgilze daerigebinaT

maTTvis wamlebi?! SeiZleboda,

magram _ ara! TbilisSi

atarebdnen TveSi erTxel. erTi

qalbatoni iyo zugdididan, 70

wels mitanebuli. buRas agdebda

saxlSi, iman SemTxveviT urqina,

qali daeca da saavadmyofoSi

moxvda. iq gaiges, rom „ce”

hepatiti hqonia. CaerTo am programaSi

da TveSi erTxel zugdididan

TbilisSi Camodioda da

saaTobiT idga wamlis rigSi.

SemTxveviT ar aRvniSne, rom

imasac ki aravin akontrolebda,

vsvamdiT Tu ara saerTod am

wamlebs. iyvnen iseTebi, romlebic

am wamals ar svamdnen.

_ ratom ar svamdnen? aba,

ratom CaerTnen am programaSi,

Tu ar dalevdnen?

_ zogs daavadebis Zalian mZime

forma hqonda. maT icodnen,

rom rac ar unda wamali daeliaT,

ver gadarCebodnen. sasikvdilod

gametebuli adamiani, romelsac

saxlSi puris fuli ar

aqvs da parkiT miaqvs 80.000 dolaris

Rirebulebis wamali,

Tqveni azriT, ras izams? mgoni,

amas Zneli mixvedra ar unda.

_ yiddnen adamianebi am wa-

mals?

_ yiddnen! adamians eubnebian,

sasikvdilod xar gadadebulio!

icis, rom araferi eSveleba,

mis Svilebs ki xorci ar uWamiaT

didi xania. gayidis am wamals,

aba, ras izams?! ramdenjer

yofila SemTxveva, rom adamianebs

gaWirvebis gamo sakuTari

Tirkmeli gauyidiaT. ufro martivad

gayiddnen am wamals.

_ ruseTis Sav bazarze maT

mier gayiduli wamali xvdeboda?

_ es gamoZiebam unda daadginos.

marto am adamianebis gayiduli

wamlebi ver moxvdeboda

rusul bazarze. aq ufro bneli

saqmeebia. amis dadasturebaa,

naxevari miliardis wamals rom

vada gauyvanes. amaze aucileblad

unda agos viRacam pasuxi.

am programis garSemo seriozuli

gamoZieba unda Catardes. am

programiT viRacebma Zalian didi

fuli iSoves. roca aseT did

Tanxebzea saubari, im erTi kacis

gareSe verafers gaakeTebdnen.

es mxolod Cemi varaudia. ar

gamovricxav, im erT kacsac gverdi

auares da mis gareSe gaakeTes

Zalian didi fuli. eseni

xom yvelani komunisturi warsulidan

modian.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

7


`biZina ivaniSvili unda dabrundes

„qarTuli ocnebis” Tavmjdom-

nene injgia

are, biZina ivaniSvili, 7 wlis man-

591 71 39 98

Zilze sazogadoebis Warbi ndobiT

amayobda, Tumca Warbi ndoba Warbma

negatiurma damokidebulebam Caanacvla. „erovnul-demokratiuli

institutis” (NDI) axali kvlevis Tanaxmad, ivaniSvilis reitingi

katastrofulad daeca. „ocnebis” lideri mxolod 17%-s mos-

wons. mis mimarT uaryofiTad 49%-ia ganwyobili.

amis paralelurad, opozicia

„qarTuli ocnebis” liders moldovis

araformaluri mmarTvelis,

vladimir plaxatniukis beds

uwinaswarmetyvelebs.

moldovaSi, romelic qveynis

sididiTa da mmarTvelobis stiliT

Zalian hgavs saqarTvelos,

oligarqia 2019 wels daemxo. plaxatniuki,

ivaniSvilis msgavsad,

mmarTveli demokratiuli partiis

Tavmjdomare da yvela msxvili

biznesis mflobeli iyo. sruliad

moulodnelad moldovaSi vi-

Tareba Seicvala da oligarqi

vladimer plaxotniuki saxelmwifos

mitacebaSi amxiles. araformalurma

mmarTvelma qveyana datova,

aSS-m ki is Sav siaSi Seiyvana.

gaiziarebs Tu ara plaxatniukis

beds ivaniSvili? aqvs Tu ara

2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebamde

reitingis gamosworebisa da

xelisuflebaSi darCenis potenciali

miliarders? da ra politikuri

mocemulobis winaSe dganan

mmarTveli gundi da opozicia?

aRniSnul TemebTan dakavSirebiT

„qronika+~ eqspert gia xux-

aSvils esaubra:

_ mTavrobam anakliis ganvi-

Tarebis konsorciumTan xelSekruleba

Sewyvita. metic, ganacxada,

rom konsorciums pirgasam-

texlos gadaxda mouwevs. aseve

iTqva, rom mTavroba Rrmawylo-

vani portis asaSeneblad axali

investoris moZebnas iwyebs. xaz-

araZem da jafariZem ki ganacxa-

des, rom davas saerTaSoriso

saarbitraJo

sasamarTloSi

gaagrZeleben. ra mizans emsaxureboda

mTavrobis gadaw-

yvetileba da am mocemulobaSi

ra perspeqtiva aqvs am proeqts?

_ am proeqtis Cagdeba an Tundac

gadavadeba saxelmwifo interesebs,

samwuxarod, azianebs,

gamomdinare iqidan, rom anakliis

proeqti didi geopolitikis nawili

gaxda. rogorc Cans, amerikul

mxares garkveuli strategiuli

daintereseba aqvs am proeqt-

Tan dakavSirebiT. mogexsenebaT,

Sav zRvaSi balansi ruseTis sasargeblodaa,

im dros, rodesac

natos wevri ramdenime qveyanaa

SavizRvispira qveynebs Soris:

rumineTi, bulgareTi da Turqe-

Ti. anaklias Savi zRvis usafrTxoebis

sistemis formirebis saqme-

Si SeeZlo da, imedi maqvs, jer

kidev SeuZlia, seriozuli rolis

TamaSi. anakliis proeqtis ganvi-

TarebiT Cven geopolitikur funqcias

vaZlierebT, rogorc usafrTxoebis,

aseve ekonomikuri

TvalsazrisiT. rodesac ekonomikuri

funqciis gaZlierebaze

vsaubrob, ar maqvs mxedvelobaSi

sakuTriv saporto gadazidvebi,

am SemTxvevaSi vgulisxmob ufro

lojistikur infrastruqturas,

romelic SeiZleba anakliis irgvliv

ganviTardes da dasavleTaRmosavleTs

Soris ekonomikur

aqtivobaSi seriozuli roli iTamaSos.

ase rom, anakliis Rrmawylovani

portis proeqtis konservacia

an Seferxeba, bunebrivia,

grZelvadian saxelmwifo interess

seriozulad azianebs. rac

Seexeba perspeqtivas, igi Zalian

bundovania. ar mgonia, rom xelisulebis

amocana am proeqtis

saerTod gauqmeba iyos, maTi

amocana am etapze iyo proeqtze

kontrolis aRdgena, gamomdinare

iqidan, rom xelisuflebisTvis

konsorciumi, rogorc Cans,

politikuradac miuRebeli mxare

iyo, magram es Tema gaxdeba sadavo,

yvelaferi gadainacvlebs

saerTaSoriso arbitraJSi, rac

TavisTavad Seaferxebs proeqtis

Semdgom ganviTarebas. im viTarebaSi,

rodesac proeqtis sakiTxi

saerTaSoriso sasamarTloSi ixileba,

bunebrivia, civilizebuli

investori am dros alternatiul

investicias ar ganaxorcielebs,

yovel SemTxvevaSi, manam, sanam am

davis perspeqtiva gairkveva, Sesabamisad,

am periodSi proeqtis

ganxorcielebis erTaderTi Teoriuli

Sansi rCeba, rom TviTon

biZina ivaniSvilma an masTan afilirebulma

jgufebma moaxdinon

proeqtis aqtivizacia, Tumca es

Teoriuli Sansebia. Zalian samwuxaroa,

rac xdeba. ziani ukve na-

Telia, es ziani ra masStabis iqneba

da ra saxes miiRebs, amaze gadawyvetileba,

jerjerobiT, arc

arsebobs, amitom unda davelodoT

movlenebis ganviTarebas.

_ garda imisa, rom xelisuflebis

mizani iyo anakliis por-

tis proeqtze kontrolis aReba,

garkveulwilad, mTavrobis gada-

wyvetileba rusul interesebs

xom ar emsaxureba?

_ ar mgonia, rom am SemTxveva-

Si xelisuflebam rusuli dakve-

Ta Seasrula. saerTod, Zalian

skeptikurad vuyureb im koncefcias,

rom xelisuflebaSi raRac

jgufi rusul interesebs atarebs.

me mgonia, rom xelisufleba

sakuTari Zalauflebis gamyarebaze

fiqrobs da am proeqts Zalauflebis

gamyarebas ukavSirebs. xelisufleba

mzad aris rogorc

proeqtis aqtivizaciisTvis, aseve

proeqtis konservaciisTvis. xelisufleba

mzad aris, rom instrumentad,

am did geopolitikur

vaWrobaSi, rogorc dasavleTis

aseve ruseTis mimarTulebiT, am

proeqtis bedi gamoiyenos. Tumca

is, rom ukve xelisufleba Camoyalibebuli

iyos da rusuli interesebidan

gamomdinare gadawyvetili

hqondes proeqtis konservacia,

_ ase ar vfiqrob. ar

mgonia, rom dReis mdgomareobiT

ase cudad iyos saqme.

_ NDI-is kvlevebis mixedviT

biZina ivaniSvilis reitingi negativis

maCvenebliT pirvel adgilzea.

es ricxvebi, rac am organizaciam

gagvacno, ramdenad Seesabameba

realobas da ra nabije-

bi unda gadadgas ivaniSvilma

Tavisi reitingis gasaumjobese-

blad?

_ erTia, pozitiuri damokidebuleba

adamianisadmi da meorea

misi reitingi, rogorc politikosis,

anu pozitiv-negativis

jami. SeiZleba, adamiani ar uyvardeT,

magram mas aRiarebdnen, rogorc

Zalis centrs. Sesabamisad,

vfiqrob, rom biZina ivaniSvilis

gia xuxaSvili:

`ramdenic ar unda

ugrixo adamianebs

xelebi, daaSino

da daaSantaJo,

amas, saboloo

jamSi, perspeqtiva

mainc ar gaaCnia~

politikuri wona rom gaezomaT,

is axlac pirvel adgilze iqneboda,

magram radgan misdami negatiuri

damokidebuleba gaizoma, ase-

Tia samwuxaro realoba, rom mas

antireitingi Zalian maRali aqvs

da es bunebrivic aris, radgan

qveyanaSi Zalian bevri problemaa

dagrovili, praqtkulad, yvela

mimarTulebiT, rogorc socialur-ekonomikuri,

aseve Sida da sagareo

politikaSi. biZina ivaniSvili

gansakuTrebiT dazianda mas

Semdeg, rac, faqtobrivad, piroba

misca mTel sazogadoebas da

Semdeg sakmaod ucnauri formiT

gadaagdo mosaxleoba proporciul

arCevnebTan dakavSirebiT, anu

man sityva gatexa. marTlmsajuleba,

romelic Zalian ar moswons

xelisuflebas da TviTon mudmivad

sisxlian 9 welze saubrobs,

ès ricxvebi imas gveubneba, rom proporciuli

arCevnebis SemTxvevaSi xelisufleba,

praqtikulad, garantirebulad kargavs

Zalauflebas. zustad amitom wavida biZina

ivaniSvili reputaciul, Zalian seriozul

zianze da datova Sereuli, maJoritaruli

saarCevno sistema~

swored es marTlmsajuleba iyo

im sisxliani 9 wlis erT-erTi

mniSvnelovani komponenti da am

marTlmsajulebis sistemis reintegracia

moxda. am yvelaferma is

gansakuTrebiT daaziana da, Sesabamisad,

aseTi mocemuloba gvaqvs

_ mas Zalian maRali antireitingi

aqvs da miuxedavad imisa, rom

ivaniSvilis, rogorc Zalis centrs,

yvela aRiarebs, mis mimarT

pozitiuri damokidebuleba kritikulad

dabalia. es viTardeba

im fonze, rodesac dasavleTidan

Zalian SemaSfoTebeli signalebi

modis, Tu ase gagrZelda, man Sei-

Zleba yovelgvari legitimacia

dakargos dasavleTis TvalSi. es

xdeba im dros, rodesac sul male

arCevnebi unda Catardes, ramac

SeiZleba, wiTeli xaziviT gaiaros

mis momaval perspeqtivaze.

_ opozicia biZina ivaniSvils

moldoveli oligarqis beds uwi-

naswarmetyvelebs. moldovaSi

gasul wels oligarqia daemxo

da araformaluri mmarTveli

plaxatniuki qveynidan gaiqca. is

aSS-m Sav siaSi Seiyvana. aqvs Tu

ara ivaniSvils Sansi, rom igive

bedi ar gaiziaros da amisTvis ra

nabijebi unda gadadgas man?

_ mas aqvs Sansebi. amaze ukve 3

welia, vsaubrob. imisTvis, rom

saxelmwifoebrivad sworad wavides

procesi da mas politikuri

gadarCenis Sansebi mieces, sami

nabiji unda gadadgas. Sors var

im azrisgan, rom plaxatniukis

precedentis pirdapir analogiaze

visaubro, magram aSS-s mxridan

plaxatniukisTvis sanqciebis

dawesebis formulireba ase

JRerda: mas dauweses sanqciebi,

radgan misi korufciuli moRvaweoba

azianebda moldovaSi

demokratiul institutebs. gamomdinare

iqidan, rom amerikuli

politikuri elita precedentuli

azrovnebisaa, anu Tu Seiqmna

precedenti da mere viRacam

daumtkica, rom garkveuli analogiebi

arsebobs, isini am precedents

didi ganxilvebis gareSe

iyeneben analogiuri SemTxveveb-

8 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


premier-ministris postze~

ànaklias Savi zRvis usafrTxoebis sistemis formirebis saqmeSi SeeZlo da,

imedi maqvs, jer kidev SeuZlia, seriozuli rolis TamaSi. anakliis proeqtis

ganviTarebiT Cven geopolitikur funqcias vaZlierebT, rogorc

usafrTxoebis, aseve ekonomikuri TvalsazrisiT~

isTvis. aqedan gamomdinare, es

realuri xifaTis matarebelia,

magram iqidan gamomdinare, rom

plaxatniukis dacema daiwyo

arCevnebis Semdeg, vfiqrob,

ivaniSvils am wlis noembramde

aqvs dro, anu Tu mis winaaRmdeg

rame meqanizmebi CairTveba, es

iqneba arCevnebis Semdeg, manamde

mas aqvs, jer kidev, dro, rom yvelafris

garkveuli reformireba

moaxdinos, rom am formulirebis

qveS ar moxvdes. am formulirebis

SemTxvevaSi saubaria Semdegze:

1. demokratiuli institutebis

komprometacia: qveyana-

Si darRveulia instituciuri

wesrigi, anu Crdilovan avtoritarizmzea

saubaria, rodesac

qveyana instituciuri centrebidan

ar imarTeba. aseTi analogia

SeiZleba davinaxoT dRevandel

mmarTvelobaSi. mogexsenebaT,

rom TviTon ivaniSvili TiTqos

institucionalizebulia da am

dros aris gancda, rom is iRebs

yvela gadawyvetilebas, sazogadoebac

pasuxismgeblobas yvelaferze

mas akisrebs. Sesabamisad,

pirveli nabiji, rac man unda

gadadgas, aris is, rom aRadginos

instituciuri wesrigi. instituciuri

wesrigis aRdgena ki

erTaderTi gziT aris SesaZlebeli,

es gza martivia: is unda dabrundes

premier-ministris postze.

sxva gza, rom, magaliTad, is

saerTod wavides politikidan, ar

mgonia, qveynisTvis sasargeblo

iyos, _ biZina ivaniSvilis CamoSoreba

gadawyvetilebis miRebis

procesidan kidev ufro damazianebeli

iqneba, radgan vxedavT,

dRes vinc aris xelisuflebaSi da

am adamianebis xelSi Cemi mteri

Cavarda; 2. oqtombramde seriozuli

nabijebis gadadgma, igive

socialur-ekonomikuri kuTxiT,

rom gaWirvebuli adamianebis ukmayofileba

gadalaxos, _ es Seu-

Zlebelia, ivaniSvili amas ver gaakeTebs.

Tumca arsebobs nabijebi,

romelic mas SeuZlia swrafad

gadadgas da amiT, garkveulwilad,

imedis naperwkali gaaCinos

xalxSi. es nabiji aris seriozuli,

kargi gagebiT agresiuli,

antikorufciuli RonisZiebebis

gatareba. amis gakeTeba SeiZleba

swrafad da efeqtianad. am meore

nabijiT igi, garkveulwilad, reabilitacias

moaxdens qarTul sazogadoebaSi;

3. mesame nabiji ki,

rac mas am pompeos formulirebis

mTavari safrTxidan gamoiyvans,

es aris opoziciasTan saarCevno

sistemasTan dakavSirebiT

garkveuli konsensusis moZebna,

oqtomberSi arCevnebis demokratiulad

Catarebis garantireba,

sakuTari statusidan da politikuri

wonidan gamomdinare,

aseve Rirseuli, faqtobrivad,

uxinjo arCevnebis Catareba konkurentul

garemoSi. Tu is am sam

nabijs gadadgams, vfiqrob, mas

rCeba xelisuflebaSi darCenis

Teoriuli Sansi, welgamagrebul

da reabilitirebul biZinad. xelisuflebaSi

romc ver darCes, is

SeinarCunebs mTavars: keTildReobas,

pirad usafrTxoebas da

welgamarTuli gaagrZelebs moRvaweobas

an opoziciaSi Tu politikaSi

darCeba, an gaakeTebs imas,

rasac adre akeTebda. me visaubre

imaze, rac sworad mimaCnia da,

faqtobrivad, Tqveni gazeTis meSveobiT

vTavazob ivaniSvils. mgonia,

rom es aris saxelmwifoebrivad

swori nabijebi da piradad

misTvis, _ kargi. am SemTxvevaSi amovdivar

misi gulSematkivris

poziciidan. rodesac vambob, rom

gulSematkivari var, viRacebs

Zalian ukvirT, me ar var misi

politikuri gulSematkivari,

piriqiT, xSir SemTxvevaSi, CemTvis

kategoriulad miuRebelia, ra

politikasac is atarebs da me misi

mkacri oponenti var. rogorc

adamianTan da pirovnebasTan, mis

ojaxTan, bunebrivia, bevri rame

makavSirebs. mas, rogorc pirovnebas,

vgulSematkivrob, Sesabamisad,

vfiqrob, rom Cemi valia, mas

SevTavazo reabilitaciis programa;

miuxedavad imisa, rom is

politikurad absoluturad

ucxoa da masTan TanamSromlobis

perspeqtivas am etapze verc vxedav.

_ Tqven araerTxel gisaubri-

aT imaze, rom ivaniSvils gare-

mocvaSi iseTi adamianebi hyavs,

romlebic mxolod misTvis sasia-

movno informacias awvdian. am

etapze, ramdenad iazrebs is Se-

qmnil viTarebas da rogoria misi

premier-ministrad dabrunebis

Sansebi?

_ rac garedan Cans, iqidan gamomdinare,

vfiqrob, rom mas realoba

dakarguli aqvs. vambob

kidevac, rom mas saerTod ver

vcnob. rodesac erTad viyaviT, is

sul sxva azrovnebis adamiani iyo

da amden Secdomas namdvilad ar

uSvebda. dRes meCveneba, rom mas

garkveuli alternatiuli realoba

Seuqmnes da im alternatiul

realobaSi, garkveul politikur

bunkerSi acxovreben, sadac gaT-

`me visaubre imaze, rac sworad mimaCnia da,

faqtobrivad, Tqveni gazeTis meSveobiT

vTavazob ivaniSvils. mgonia, rom es aris

saxelmwifoebrivad swori nabijebi da piradad

misTvis, - kargi. am SemTxvevaSi amovdivar misi

gulSematkivris poziciidan~

iSulia yvela komunikaciis saSualeba

da raRac erTi, absoluturad

gaugebari arxidan miewodeba

informacia. adamiani gadawyvetilebebs

iRebs misTvis miwodebuli

informaciebis safuZvelze.

vfiqrob, misi informaciis

miRebis arxebi Zalian SezRudulia,

sterilizebulia. ver vityvi,

rom amas viRac garedan

ukeTebs, es misi arCevania, TviTon

arCia „cxovreba mSvenierias” vi-

TarebaSi operireba. aqedan gamomdinare,

is adamianebi, vinc mis

irgvliv arian, mis am survils,

rom yvelaferi kargad aris, SesaniSnavad

aRiqvamen da garkveuli

gamaZliereblis rols Tama-

Soben. mgonia, rom aseTi viTarebaa,

Tumca ar gamovricxav, rom es

yvelaferi Seicvalos, radgan bi-

Zina ivaniSvili Zalian kargi taqtikosia

da namdvilad aqvs am vi-

Tarebidan gamoZromis potenciali.

zustad amitom vTavazob mas

raRacebs da vcdilob, es kedeli

raRacnairad gavarRvio da mcire

eWvis marcvali mainc Cavagdo mis

aRqmaSi, rom mTlad ise kargad ar

aris yvelaferi, rogorc misi

garemocva eubneba bolo dromde.

_ NDI-is kvlevebs davubrun-

deT: xval rom saparlamento

arCevnebi tardebodes, „qarTul

ocnebas” 20%, „erTian nacionalur

moZraobas” _ 13%, „evrop-

ul saqarTvelo _ Tavisufal

demokratebs” 8% miscemda xmas,

anu kvlevebis mixedviT jamurad

opozicias imaze meti adamiani

uWers mxars, vidre „qarTul

ocnebas”. ras gveubneba es ricx-

vebi da am monacemebis mixedviT

SeiZleba Tu ara prognozireba?

_ es ricxvebi imas gveubneba,

rom proporciuli arCevnebis

SemTxvevaSi xelisufleba, praqtikulad,

garantirebulad kargavs

Zalauflebas. zustad amitom

wavida biZina ivaniSvili reputaciul,

Zalian seriozul zianze

da datova Sereuli, maJoritaruli

saarCevno sistema. yvelas

kargad gvesmis: maJoritaruli

saarCevno sistemis pirobebSi

20% sakmarisia imisTvis, rom

100%-iani Sedegi miiRon. yvelam

viciT, rom maJoritarulis SemTxvevaSi

yvela olqSi meore turi

gardauvalia, xelisufleba opoziciis

daqsaqsulobisa da sisustis

pirobebSi pirvel adgilebze

gava. administraciuli da materialuri

resursiT, meore tureb-

Si, Tundac 20%-iani legitimaciiT,

xelisufleba moaxerxebs ma-

Joritaruli arCevnebis mogebas

da amazea mTeli gaTvla, amavdroulad,

yvelas kargad unda gvesmodes

isic, rom es igive Zalauflebis

uzurpaciis tolfasia,

radgan 20%-iani legitimaciiT

100%-iani Zalauflebis miReba ar

qmnis stabiluri politikuri

procesis safuZvels da, Sesabamisad,

Cven, erTi mxriv, winasaarCevno

problemebi gvaqvs, magram

postsaarCevnod kidev ufro seriozul

problemebs unda velodoT

da es aucileblad unda

gaiTvaliswinos xelisuflebam.

_ Cven vxedavT, rom xelisu-

flebasa da opozicias Soris ar

dasrulebula kamaTi imaze,

Catardeba Tu ara proporciuli

sistemiT 2020 wlis saparlamen-

to arCevnebi. Tqveni azriT,

rogor dasruldeba opozicia-

xelisuflebis dialogi?

_ proporciuli arCevnebis

Catarebas im saxiT, rogorc

Tavidan iyo naTqvami, bunebrivia,

skeptikurad vuyureb, radgan

konstituciuri procesis organizeba

SeuZlebelia, Tumca arsebobs

adaptirebuli germanuli

varianti, romlis miRebis Teoriuli

Sansi, jer kidev, Cans, _

mravalmandatian olqebs vgulisxmob.

aseve arsebobs xelisuflebis

SeTavazebac, romlis mixedviTac,

100 deputati proporciuli

wesiT, xolo 50 maJoritarulad

airCion, rac, garkveulwilad,

odnav ukeTesi aris imaze,

rac dRes gvaqvs. ase rom, politikur

procesSi gamoCndeba, ra

iqneba SesaZlebeli. TviTon biZina

ivaniSvilis interesebSia, rom

legitimurobas safrTxe ar Seuqmnas.

mudmivi krizisebisa da ryevis

pirobebSi rom ar viyoT, maqsimalurad

unda dauTmos opozicias

da Seecados, arCevnebi moigos

ara xelebis gadagrexiT,

aramed pozitiuri dRis wesrigiT,

axali imedebis talRis gaCeniT.

pozitiuri dRis wesrigi aris

erTaderTi universaluri meqanizmi

imisTvis, rom grZelvadianad

darCe ZalauflebaSi, radgan ramdenic

ar unda ugrixo adamianebs

xelebi, daaSino da daaSantaJo,

amas saboloo jamSi, perspeqtiva

mainc ar gaaCnia, _ rac ufro

agresiulad moqmedeb, ukuqmedebis

Zalasac zrdi. niutonis kanonia,

bolos da bolos, qmedebaukuqmedebis.

biZina ivaniSvilma

axali imedi unda SesTavazos sazogadoebas,

igive antikorufciuli

RonisZiebebi unda gaataros

da erTi-ori bobola rom vixiloT

korufciisTvis dasjili,

es sazogadoebis mxridan misdami

damokidebulebas, garkveulwilad,

gamoasworebda. rac Seexeba

opozicia-xelisuflebis dialogs,

vfiqrob, es procesi jer

ar dasrulebula, bevri dro ar

aris darCenili. vfiqrob, ianvar-

TebervalSi sabolood unda Camoyalibdes

yvelaferi. imis iqiT

gadaweva ukve aRar SeiZleba, radgan

saerTaSoriso standartiT

arCevnebamde 1 wliT adre ukve

unda dadgindes wesebi.

9

kremli Tavis gagorebul falavan

xajimbas, albaT, aRar gamoiyvans

asparezze. aSkaraa, rom

afxazebs ar surT mkveTrad prorusuli

xelisufali, moskovs ki

proafxazuri mmarTveli ar sWirdeba

soxumSi. „evropeli demokratebis”

lideri, paata daviTaia,

„qronika+~-Tan ambobs, rom kremlma

ukve ipova kaci, romelic

proafxazebs brZolas dauwyebs.

ra misiiT midis alika arZinba

soxumSi? ratom ver itanen afxa-

zebi xajimbas? ra gegmebi aqvT

Zveli Taobis afxaz politiko-

sebs? ratom ar SeiZleba sergei

Sambas ndoba? axsovT Tu ara en-

gurs gamoRma afxazeTi? ras

akeTebs oficialuri Tbilisi? _

am Temebze paata daviTaia gve-

saubreba:

_ afxazurma opoziciam xajim-

ba aiZula, rom gadamdgariyo. win

vadamdeli saprezidento arCevnebia.

rogor ganviTardeba movle-

nebi?

_ am arCevnebs opozicia moigebs.

opoziciis kandidati, savaraudod,

aslan bJania iqneba,

romelmac, wesiT, unda gaimarjvos

kidevac. bJania im afxaz politikosebs

ganekuTvneba, romelTac

marTla hgoniaT, rom afxazeTi

damoukidebeli respublikaa.

xajimbasgan gansxvavebiT, is namdvil

damoukideblobas uWers mxars.

bJaniasac da mis Tanamoazreebsac

kargad esmiT, rom

damoukideblobis miRweva Zneli

iqneba, amas ruseTi ar dauSvebs.

maT ruseTTan faruli omi mouwevT.

am procesebis damlagebeli

aleqsandre anqvabi iqneba. anqvabi

idga opoziciis ukan, romelmac

xajimba Camoagdo.

es ukanaskneli ramdenime dRe

aWianurebda Tanamdebobis datovebas,

imedi hqonda, rom kremli

gadaarCenda. kremlma mas

raSid nurgalievis saxiT maSvelic

gaugzavna. ruseTis uSiSroebis

sabWos mdivnis moadgile Sexvda

rogorc xajimbas, aseve opozicias,

Semdeg orive mxares erTad

daelaparaka, magram araferi

gamouvida. nurgalievi, jer kidev,

soxumSi iyo, roca afxazuri

opozicia xajimbas miadga da Tanamdebobis

datoveba kidev erTxel

mosTxova. isic moerida situaciis

kidev ufro gamwvavebas da

Tanamdeboba datova. misi gadar-

Cena moskovmac ki ver SeZlo.

_ es niSnavs Tu ara imas, rom

kremlma afxazeTze kontroli

dakarga?

_ amas gadaWriT ver vityviT,

magram aSkaraa, rom moskovma afxazeTze

kontroli dakarga. minda,

yvelam icodes, rom kremli amas

ase iolad ar Seegueba. afxazeTis

10


`moskovi afxazeTis

mZimed daiwyo 2020 weli ok-

Sorena marsagiSvili

upirebul afxazeTSi. iqauri

599 92 16 22

opozicia raul xajimbas prezidentad

arCevas ukanonod miiC-

nevda da gasuli wlis Semodgomidan moyolebuli Sedegebis

gabaTilebas iTxovda. naaxalwlevs afxazi opozicionerebi

prezidentis administraciaSi SeiWrnen, rac soxumSi aslan

bJanias dabrunebas daemTxva. es ukanaskneli SarSandel

saprezidento arCevnebze opoziciis kandidati unda yofil-

iyo, magram rusebma mowamles. man germaniaSi ramdenime Tve

imkurnala. savaraudod, opoziciis kandidati kvlav is iqne-

ba. vadamdeli saprezidento arCevnebi aq martSi Catardeba.

mimarTulebas daubrunda putinis

TanaSemwe surkovi, romelic

bolo wlebi ukrainis Temas kurirebda.

surkovi soxumSi Tavis

kadrs agzavnis, romelic gazafxulze

partias Seqmnis. saubaria

alika arZinbaze. mis partias „momavali

afxazeTi” erqmeva. es adamiani

aqamde kremlis aparatSi

muSaobda da ukrainis sakiTxiT

iyo dakavebuli.

_ es is alika arZinbaa, romelic

saakaSvils xSirad ekamaTeboda

xolme, roca is odesis guber-

natori iyo?

_ es is arZinbaa. es axalgazrda

vladislav arZinbas naTesavia.

alika arZinba Tavidan bolomde

rusuli suliskveTebiT aris

gamozrdili. aSkaraa, rom rusebi

afxazeTSi seriozuli revan-

SisTvis emzadebian.

_ arZinbas daxmarebiT undaT

revanSis aReba?

_ moskovi mixvda, rom bJanias,

kvicinias, anqvabs afxazeTis

damoukideblobis ideebi awuxebT.

es moskovis interesebSi ar Sedis.

isini afxazeTis mmarTvelad iseT

kacs amzadeben, romelic respublikis

srul integracias moaxdens

ruseTSi. erT-erTi aseTia arZinba.

masze kremli did imedebs amyarebs

da, albaT, did jildosac

dahpirdnen, sxvanairad es axalgazrda

kaci kremlSi aseT warmatebul

karieraze uars ar ityoda.

ukve daiwyo muSaoba misi partiis

Seqmnaze, romelic mxolod

axalgazrdebiT iqneba dakompleqtebuli.

es ruseTis mxridan sakmaod

Wkvianuri gaTvlaa. saprezidento

arCevnebidan sadRac or

weliwadSi es partia Zalian gaaqtiurdeba.

isini an kontrolqveS

aiyvanen prezidents, an _ gadaagdeben.

jer arCevnebi ar Catarebula

da moskovma axlave Caudo

naRmi bJanias.

_ mas naRmi SarSan zafxulSi

Caudes, roca mowamles da

arCevnebs CamoaSores.

_ bJania ki ar mowamles, faqtobrivad,

mokles, magram is gadarCa.

_ gadarCa, magram anqvabs mainc

ver ajobebs, is kaci Svidjer

aafeTqes da Svidjerve gadarCa.

_ esec imaze miuTiTebs, Tu

rogori miuRebelia aleqsandre

anqvabi ruseTisTvis. moskovma

kargad icis, rom anqvabi afxaze-

Tis momavals ruseTis SemadgenlobaSi

ar xedavs. ufrosi Taobis

afxazi politikosebi realur

damoukideblobas uWeren mxars.

isini antirusuli ganwyobis matareblebi

arian. es imas sulac ar

niSnavs, rom maT saqarTvelos mimarT

simpaTiebi aqvT.

proafxazuri orientaciis

politikosebi ruseTis Tavis

tkivilad iqcnen. kremli nel-nela

cdilobs maT CamoSorebas. afeTqebebiT

da mowamvliT rom verafers

gaxdnen, axla Tavis gamozrdil

kacs uqmnian partias, raTa

afxazeTi mTlianad miierTon.

_ Zveli Taobis afxaz poli-

tikosebze raki vsaubrobT, ras

fiqrobT sergei Sambas gancxade-

bebze? afxazuri separatizmis ma-

mis separatistul gancxadebebs

qarTuli sazogadoeba gulaCuye-

buli Sexvda.

_ Sambas gancxadebebiT gulaCuyebul

sazogadoebas minda

vurCio, rom emociebi daiokos. ar

paata daviTaia:

`kremli

soxumSi

situaciis

asarevad

arZinbas

naTesavs

agzavnis~

`bJania im afxaz politikosebs ganekuTvneba,

romelTac marTla hgoniaT, rom afxazeTi

damoukidebeli respublikaa. xajimbasgan

gansxvavebiT, is namdvil damoukideblobas uWers

mxars. bJaniasac da mis Tanamoazreebsac kargad

esmiT, rom damoukideblobis miRweva Zneli

iqneba, amas ruseTi ar dauSvebs. maT ruseTTan

faruli omi mouwevT. am procesebis damlagebeli

aleqsandre anqvabi iqneba. anqvabi idga opoziciis

ukan, romelmac xajimba Camoagdo~

10 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

Rirs afxazuri separatizmis mamasa

da qarTvelebis dauZinebel

mterze gulis aCuyeba. CemTvis

misi gancxadebebi arafers cvlis.

sasikeTo araferia maTSi, man

Zalian eSmakuri gancxadeba gaake-

Ta da sanam aRvfrTovandebiT,

cota davfiqrdeT xolme.

afxazuri separatizmis mamam

Tqva, rom qarTvelebTan pirdapiri

dialogi surs. mas miaCnia, rom

saqarTvelo afxazeTs, rogorc

suverenul saxelmwifos, ise unda

daelaparakos. igive gaimeora bJaniam.

aris axla erTi Jriamuli, _

ra kargia, afxazebs CvenTan dialogi

undaTo. xalxo, maT saqarTvelosTan,

rogorc TanasworTan,

ise surT saubari. ar mesmis, ra

aris aq sasixarulo? aravis uTqvams,

rom afxazeTi saqarTvelos

SemadgenlobaSi unda dabrundes.

_ marTla saocaria, ers ratom

auCuyda ase guli Sambas gancxa-

debebze? aseT dialogs xajimbac

ki gvTavazobda.

_ iTxovda. sul ambobda, gvaRiaron

da mzad varT, TbilisTan

dialogisTviso. Sambas gancxadebiT

gulaCuyebul qarTvelebs minda

vuTxra, rom afxazebs marTla

Tu surT qarTvelebTan saerTo

enis gamonaxva, amas Riad arasdros

gaakeTeben. es saidumlo samuSaoa.

_ ratom ar gaakeTeben amas

Riad?

_ imitom, rom es ruseTis interesebSi

ar Sedis. Tbilisis gamo

soxumi moskovs ar gaanawyenebs.

Tu ramea, Cumad imoqmedeben afxazebi.

Cveni da afxazebis interesebis

Tanxvedra unda moxdes. sakmaod

kargad vicnob afxazeTs,

afxazeTis konfliqtsa da afxazuri

separatizmis fuZemdeblis,

sergei Sambas gancxadebebze did

imedebs ar davamyareb.

_ Samba dRes ra TamaSs Tama-

Sobs? STabeWdileba mrCeba, rom

is TamaSgare mdgomareobaSi imy-

ofeba da aseTi gancxadebebiT

unda yuradRebis mipyroba.

_ is aravis TamaSs ar TamaSobs.

is sakmaod gaiZvera politikosia.

sakuTar Tavze muSaobs. mas surs,

rom misgan iseTive legenda Seiqmnas,

rogoric arZinbazea. unda,

rom xalxma is afxazeTis ganmaTavisufleblad

CaTvalos. is TiTqmis

20 weli iyo afxazeTis e. w. sagareo

saqmeTa ministri da afxaze-

Tis mama hgonia Tavi. sakmaod didi

warmodgena aqvs sakuTar Tavze.

sxva ra unda vTqvaT im kacze,

romelic ambobs, _ xajimba moviyvane

me da xajimba waviyvane meo.


dakargvas ar Seegueba~

_ man ranairad moiyvana? ram-

deni iwvala kremlma xajimbas

gaprezidentebaze.

_ sisuleleebs ambobs. xajimba

moiyvana kremlis specsamsaxurebma

da gauSva anqvabma.

_ anqvabi vaxseneT da xajimbas

gaSvebis Semdeg ras gaakeTebs?

prezidentad xom ar iyris kenWs?

_ anqvabi, albaT, ufro araformalur

mmarTvelad Camoyalibdeba.

mas aqvs amis gamocdileba.

15 wlis win sergei baRafSi misi

proeqti iyo.

_ maSin Tavadac surda saprez-

idento arCevnebSi monawileoba,

magram registraciidan moxsnes.

_ maTi kanonmdeblobiT, saprezidento

arCevnebSi monawile

piri ukanaskneli 5 wlis manZilze

afxazeTSi unda cxovrobdes. anqvabi

ki moskovSi iyo wasuli, iq

cxovrobda da amitom moxsnes is

registraciidan. maSin baRafSis

proeqti gaTamaSda. axla ar vici,

ra posts daikavebs is. ufro mgonia,

rom premieris posts airCevs.

gaaCnia, rogor ganviTardeba movlenebi.

prezidentad ara mgonia,

rom kenWi iyaros. is erTxel ukve

iyo prezidenti da kremlma xajimbas

xeliT Camoagdo.

_ mas premieris postic ekava.

es posti mas baRafSma SesTavaza.

_ araa gamoricxuli, meoredac

daikavos es posti. SeiZleba, isev

CrdilSi darCes da araformaluri

mmarTveloba amjobinos. is,

kvicinia da bJania erTad iqnebian.

es triumvirati uxelmZRvanelebs

afxazeTs uaxloes periodSi.

_ Samba ar iqneba maTTan? isini

mainc erTi Taobis politiko-

sebi arian...

_ maT Soris raRac uTanxmoebebi

iyo da saerTo enis gamoZebna

gauWirdebaT, magram SeiZleba ra-

RacaSi mainc gaerios Samba. miT

umetes, rom afxazeTSi bevri rame

Seicvleba. zemoT giTxariT, rom

kremlis administraciidan wargzavnili

arZinba iq partias Seqmnis.

es partia kremlis interesebis

gamtarebeli iqneba.

alika arZinba da „momavali

afxazeTi” kremlis yvela davalebas

Seasruleben. moskovi Zalian

sworad moiqca, rom Tavisi kadri

gazarda afxazeTisTvis. Cven vin

gavzardeT? gavzardeT ki ara,

saerTod ar gvainteresebs es

Tema. xom SeiZleboda, Cvenc vinme

gagvezarda?! SeiZleboda, magram

ar gavzardeT.

_ gazrdiT aravin gagvizrdia,

magram gvyavs devnilobaSi myofi

legitimuri mTavroba da umaR-

lesi sabWo.

_ legitimuri mTavrobis wevrebi

mxolod sakuTar xelfasebze

arian orientirebulebi da ojaxis

wevrebis dasaqmeba ainteresebT.

qveynis xelisuflebas afxazeTis

Tematikaze muSaoba parlamentis

sxdomis Catareba hgonia, sadac

okupirebul regionze isaubreben.

am sxdomaze iseTi xalxi iyo miwveuli,

visac afxazeTze warmodgenac

ki ar hqonda da aTas

sisuleles bodialobda.

_ Tqveni zemoT TqviT, rom

alika arZinbas axalgazrdebiT

dakompleqtebuli partia an da-

iqvemdebarebs momaval prezidents,

an Camoagdebso. es Camogde-

ba kargad daamuRames afxazebma:

ramdenime wlis win anqvabi Camo-

`Sambas ndoba ar SeiZleba~

agdes, axla _ xajimba. male,

rogorc Tqven ambobT, jerac au-

rCevels Camoagdeben.

_ afxazebs sul sxva raRac

aqvT damuRamebuli. iq realurad

ar arsebobs saxelisuflebo mmarTveloba,

iq gvarovnuli mmarTvelobaa.

yvelafers gvarebi da

uxucesebi wyveten. uxucesebs did

pativs scemen da maT Tu rame

Tqves, kremlis winaaRmdegac ki

wavlen afxazebi. moskovma gadasarevad

icis afxazeTis Tematika

da uxucesebis fenomenic ar dar-

CeniaT SeumCneveli. maT axalgazrdebze

gaakeTes arCevani. Seuqmnian

partias alika arZinbas da

kargad daafinanseben. „momavali

afxazeTi” Tavis saqmes gaakeTebs.

_ es partia uxucesebze met

avtoritets moipovebs?

_ ara, magram es uxucesebi asak-

Si arian da odesRac xom gardaicvlebian.

_ sxvebi Sevlen xanSi da isini

daikaveben maT adgils.

_ ase aRar gamova. nel-nela

sxva Taoba modis da maTTvis ux-

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

ucesebis azri aRar iqneba iseTi

avtoritetuli, rogorc axla

aris. arZinbas partia ori wlis

mere gaaqtiurdeba. SeiZleba, ufro

adrec aamoqmedon. gazafxulze

arCeuli prezidenti Tu

kargad gamoadga kremls, maSin

aclian da axalgazrdebs 5 wlis

Semdeg gaaaqtiureben.

am axalgazrdebs kargad daamuSavebs

kremli da maTi wyalobiT

afxazeTze totalur kontrols

daamyareben. moskovis amocana

soxumisa da cxinvalis mierTebaa.

mas iseve surs am ori regionis

mierTeba, rogorc yirimi miierTa.

_ afxazebs ar surT ruseTTan

mierTeba.

_ magitomac undaT afxazeTze

totaluri kontrolis damyareba.

amdeni xania CaliCoben da am sakiTxze

afxazebTan ver dalagdnen.

osebTan es ukve mogvarebuli

aqvT. imaT orjer mainc Caatares

referendumi da ruseTis SemadgenlobaSi

Sesvlas dauWires mxari.

afxazebi rom ar uwevdnen

`moskovma kargad icis, rom anqvabi afxazeTis

momavals ruseTis SemadgenlobaSi ar xedavs.

ufrosi Taobis afxazi politikosebi realur

damoukideblobas uWeren mxars. isini

antirusuli ganwyobis matareblebi arian. es

imas sulac ar niSnavs, rom maT saqarTvelos

mimarT simpaTiebi aqvT~

rusebs winaaRmdegobas, cxinvalic

da soxumic ukve ruseTis nawili

iqneboda. Tan es ramdenime

wlis win moxdeboda.

_ osebs ase Zalian Tu undaT

ruseTis federaciaSi Sesvla, mx-

olod maT ratom ar iReben?

_ ase ar awyobT, Tan moskovisTvis

mTavari samiznea afxaze-

Ti. am regionebis mierTebas dasavleTidan

ruseTisTvis damatebiT

sanqciebis daweseba moyveba. calcalke

Tu miierTeben, gacilebiT

bevri sanqcia gamouvaT. urCevniaT,

erTi xarji gawion. rogorc ki

afxazebTan mogvardebian, CaTvaleT,

rom orive teritorias miierTeben.

_ xajimbas ra bedi eweva? mas

SeeSvebian rusebi, Tu kidev Seat-

enian am kacs afxazebs?

_ ara xajimbas Tema daxurulia,

es ukve aSkarad Cans. is SeiZleba

afxazeTis parlamentis wevri

gaxdes, magram meTauri veRar

iqneba.

_ aSkaraa, rom afxazebs xajim-

ba ar uyvarT. ra aris amis

mizezi?

_ imitom ar uyvarT, rom is

kremlis davalebebis Semsrulebeli

iyo. imitom ar uyvarT, rom

kremlTan iseTi xelSekrulebebi

gaaforma, raze xelmowerasac sxvebi

ar Tanxmdebodnen. mis mier

xelmowerili dokumentebiT rusi

samxedroebi da specsamsaxurebis

TanamSromlebi ganusazRvreli

uflebebiT sargebloben. mkvlelobac

rom Caidinon afxazeTis

teritoriaze, maT aravin mosTxovs

pasuxs. Zalian cudad iqcevian

rusebi afxazeTSi. afxazebi maT

mimarT ukve uaryofiTad arian

ganwyobili. ase rom, xajimba

damTavrda.

_ kargia, xajimba rom damTav-

rda, magram amiT CvenTvis rame

icvleba? vakeTebT saerTod

rames okupirebuli regionebis

mimarTulebiT?

_ am mimarTulebiT araferi

keTdeba da arc momavalSi igegmeba

ramis gakeTeba. Tu gamkeTeblebi

iyvnen, aqamde gaakeTebdnen

rames. darwmunebuli var, gegmac

ki ar aqvT. piradad me maqvs gegma,

Tu rogor unda vimoqmedoT.

afxazeTi Cemi cxovrebis nawilia.

yvelas vicnob, yvela vici, vin ras

warmoadgens da arafris mofiqreba

ar mWirdeba.

_ gegma maqvso da axor-

cielebT am gegmas?

_ gegma ramdenime welia, rac

maqvs, magram ranairad ganvaxorcielo?

amis SesaZlebloba arasdros

momeca. Tanac, es Cemi gegma

da afxazeTSi dabrunebis strategia

aravis aRar ainteresebs. is ar

ainteresebs arc mTavrobas, arc

sazogadoebas da rac yvelaze cudia,

es strategia Tavad devnilebsac

ar ainteresebT.

_ xelisuflebas vatyob, rom

ar ainteresebs, magram xalxs ar

mgonia, ar ainteresebdes.

_ ar ainteresebs. afxazeTi da

cxinvali mxolod sufraze axsovT.

iq ityvian sadRegrZelos,

asweven Wiqas da amiT mTavrdeba

yvelaferi. sadRegrZelos Sesmis

Semdeg ukve aRar axsovT cxinvali

da soxumi. rogor SeiZleba,

saxelmwifo gerqvas da okupirebul

regionSi viRacaze ar muSaobde?

Cveni saxelmwifo aravisze

muSaobs, arafers akeTebs.

Cven iq unda gvyavdes Cveni interesebis

gamtareblebi. xalxis

gadmosabireblad nebismieri forma

misaRebia: iqneba es finansuri

daintereseba, SantaJi, muqara... magram

unda vmuSaobdeT. samwuxarod,

ar vmuSaobT.

_ es imas xom ar niSnavs, rom

Cvenma saxelmwifom sabolood

Caiqnia xeli dakarguli region-

ebis dabrunebaze?

_ calsaxad minda giTxraT, rom

afxazeTi da cxinvali mxolod sadRegrZeloebis

doneze darCa. ar

minda sityva „xelis Caqneva” gamoviyeno,

radgan jer kidev vitoveb

imeds, rom am mimarTulebiT

cvlilebebi iqneba.

_ 8 agvistos da 27 seqtembers

dakargul teritoriebs yvela

ixsenebs da es imeds maZlevs, rom

Tema daviwyebuli ar iqneba.

TqvenTvis ar aris es optimizmis

safuZveli?

_ am gaxsenebiT ufro sakuTar

Tavs axseneben xalxs. dakarguli

teritoriebi rom stkiodeT, ra-

Rac strategia da gegma eqnebodaT.

saerTod ar muSaoben cxinvalisa

da afxazeTis mimarTulebiT.

rodesac soxumSi areuloba

daiwyo, yvelaferi imaze miuTi-

Tebda, rom xajimbas Camoagdebdnen.

es araerT interviuSi vTqvi.

Tbilisi sul sxva prognozs ake-

Tebda. es metyvelebs imaze, rom

afxazeTTan aranairi bma aRar

aqvT. raRac bma rom hqonodaT,

Zalian iolad amoicnobdnen iqaurebis

ganwyobas da mixvdebodnen,

rom xajimba damTavrda. amis

gasarkvevad agenturuli samuSaos

Catareba ar iyo saWiro. socialur

qselSi afxazur forumebSi

SeiZleba gawevrianeba da iqidan

bevr rames gaigeben.

piradad me yvela afxazur gazeTs

vkiTxulob, vuyureb afxaze-

Tis televizias da vici, ra ganwyobebia

iq. amaTac SeuZliaT amis

gakeTeba, magram Tema ar ainteresebT.

simarTle Tu gindaT, mec

daviRale afxazeTze saubariT.

gana imitom, rom aRar minda am

kuTxeze vilaparako, imiT davi-

Rale, rom am Cems saubars Sedegi

ar moaqvs.

11


`wels anaklia davTmeT, momaval wels _

gega silagava

2020 wlis politikur molod-

inebTan dakavSirebiT „qronika+“

esaubra eqsperts usafrTxoebis

sakiTxebSi, xaTuna lagaziZes:

_ mogesalmebiT, dadga 2020

weli. Cveni saubari, erTi Sexed-

viT, banaluri kiTxviT daviwyoT,

_ rogoria Tqveni molodinebi am

wlis politikur cxovrebasTan

mimarTebiT?

_ radgan mainc axali wlis

pirveli dReebia, optimistur

notze daviwyoT da vityvi, rom _

molodiniT savse! Tumca arc mTlad

siraqlemis poza gvargebs da

vTqvaT isic, rom gamowvevebic

aranaklebi gvelodeba. Tundac

vnaxoT, weli rogor daiwyo: e. w.

prezidentis gadadgoma afxazeT-

Si da vadamdeli arCevnebi; ruseT-

Si premieris cvlileba da sakonstitucio

reformisa Tu sakonstitucio

gadatrialebis daanonseba;

iran-amerikas Soris urTier-

Tobis ukiduresi daZabva; „meored

mosvla” qveynis SigniT _ morigi

premieris gadadgomisa da ivaniSvilis

premierad dabrunebis

molodini; amerikis axali elCis

daniSvna saqarTveloSi, romelic

Tavisi ficis sityvaSi xazgasmiT

aRniSnavs, rom „wlevandeli saparlamento

arCevnebi mniSvnelovani

SesaZleblobaa qarTvelebisTvis,

aCvenon msoflios, rom is

progresi, romlisTvisac amdeni

iSromes, Seuqcevadia. mouTmenlad

veli saqarTvelos mTavrobasa

da samoqalaqo sazogadoebasTan

TanamSromlobas Tavisufali

da samarTliani saarCevno

procesis mxardasaWerad”. anu

elCi xazgasmiT ambobs, rom misi

erT-erTi mTavari misia saqarTveloSi

samarTliani saarCevno

garemos uzrunvelyofa iqneba _

dameTanxmebiT, sakmarisze meti

mizezi gvaqvs imisTvis, rom 2020

wels maqsimaluri yuradRebiT da

pasuxismgeblobiT SevegeboT.

_ diax, 2020 weli arCevnebis

welia. Cvenc viziarebT aSS-is ax-

ali elCis paToss, Tumca isic

kargad gvesmis am qveynis odnav

mainc moazrovne adamianebs, rom

es iqneba, albaT, erT-erTi yve-

laze rTuli arCevnebi. magram

amis paralelurad Cndeba Zalian

mniSvnelovani, gnebavT, hamletiseuli

kiTxva, _ marTla ase mZimedaa

saqme? marTla yofna-aryofnis

sakiTxi dgas dRis wesrig-

Si?

_ es iqneba arCevnebi, sadac sasurveli

Sedegis misaRebad ruse-

Ti yvelaze metad ibrZolebs. ganvlili

8 wlis ganmavlobaSi ruseTma

srulad moaxdina saqarTvelos

sainformacio sivrcis okupireba

da ganuwyvetliv axorcielebs

fsiqologiur-diversiul

operaciebs saqarTvelos mosaxleobaSi

kapitulanturi ganwyobebis

Canergva-gaRrmavebis kuTxiT,

saqarTvelos xelisuflebis

mxridan nulovani winaaRmdegobis

pirobebSi. uaRresad simptomaturi

iyo anakliis portTan dakavSirebiT

batoni roman kakulias

gancxadeba, rom saqarTvelos xelisuflebam

anakliis portze

uari ruseTis muqaris gamo Tqva,

raTa TiTqosda qveynis usafrTxoeba

gadaerCinaT. 90-ian wlebSi

SevardnaZem azerbaijanisa da

TurqeTis maSindel liderebTan

erTad qveyanasa da regions ruseTisgan

alternatiuli energoderefnis

funqcia SesZina da swored

amis gamo ruseTma masze ori

teraqti ganaxorciela. man es fasi

gadaixada imaSi, rom saqarTvelo

provinciuli postsabWoTa

qveynidan aSS-isa da evropis strategiul

partniorad qceuliyo.

axla ki sad migviyvans aseTi daTmobebis

gziT siaruli?! wels anaklia

davTmeT, momaval wels, muqaris

SiSiT, CeCneT-saqarTvelos

damakavSirebel gzas gavxsniT, Semdeg

_ evraziis kavSirSi SevforTxdebiT

da ase 4-5 weliwad-

Si somxeTsa da belaruss gadavaswrebT

ruseTTan siaxloveSi.

sityva Sors rom ar gagveqces da

arCevnebis Temas davubrundeT,

swored am gavlenebis SesanarCuneblad

ibrZolebs TavgamodebiT

ruseTi 2020-Si saqarTvelos saparalamento

arCevnebSi da am gavlenebis

SesaCereblad unda vibrZoloT

Cven _ saqarTvelos mosaxleobam.

amitomac aris wlevandeli

arCevnebi ase mniSvnelovani.

_ viyoT realistebi, dRes, _

bukvalurad dRes, _ ar geCven-

ebaT, rom arsebuli politikuri

viTareba, rodesac arCevnebi isev

Sereuli sistemiT unda Catar-

des, TiTqos, mTavar opoziciur

Zalebsac awyobs? saaxalwlo qe-

ifebis fonze vgoneb, Tavadac ar

axsovT is sakiTxi, romelic ramdenime

xnis win qarTuli politikis

dRis wesrigis nomer pirv-

el sakiTxad miiCneoda. iseTi

STabeWdileba rCeba, rom diax,

mTavar opoziciur Zalebs ar

surdaT proporciuli arCevnebi,

magram radganac „ocnebam” am

Temaze sakuTari xeliT aifeTqa

naRmi, rogorc „gavrilovis

Rames” moaxerxes Temis kargad

gaxureba, xelisuflebis dis-

xaTuna lagaziZe:

`sakuTari

partiebis SigniT

demokratiis

mowinaaRmdege

liderebi

qveyanaSi

demokratias

aaSeneben?!~

kreditacia da meti arc surT

realurad. Tqven ras xedavT da

rogor afasebT umniSvnelovanesi

Temis sadResaswaulo miviwyebas,

romelsac, ra Tqma unda, pe-

riodulad gaaxseneben metwilad

dasavleTs, magram amis iqiT ar

wavlen.

_ telekompania „mTavari” am

mxriv gamonaklisi iyo: mTeli misi

winasaaxalwlo eTeri „ocnebis”

lustracias emsaxureboda. Tumca

imaSi unda dageTanxmoT, rom

politikurma partiebma proporciuli

arCevnebis Tema 20 ivnisidan

maleve miiviwyes, arada,

maTi gamocdilebis patronebs

ratom unda hqonodaT iluzia,

rom „ocneba” amas ase martivad

daTmobda? ratom ar imuSaves

proporciuli arCevnebis Cagdebis

prevenciisTvis?! pasuxi ar

maqvs. sxvaTa Soris, aseve ar maqvs

pasuxi, ratom ar imuSava opoziciam

mTeli ZaliT saprezidento

arCevnebis meore turSic. Tumca

àravin icis, ra mzaddeba ruseTSi; midis

putini da `mayureblad~ anu Crdilovan

mmarTvelad rCeba; Tu midis, maSin visTan

gviwevs saubari - ar unda gvainteresebdes?!

roca politikur Zalebs aseTi strategiuli

mimarTulebebiT xedvebi ki ara, interesic ar

gaaCniaT, mere imedgacruebuli amomrCevlis

ra unda gvikvirdes?~

ar mgonia, opozicias proporciuli

arCevnebis Cavardna awyobda.

_ me ar vsaubrob opoziciis

srul speqtrze, gansakuTrebiT

dabalreitingian partiebze. Tum-

ca visac „Sinaganad” ar surda

proporciuli arCevnebi, maTac

„ocnebis” es qmedeba sakmaod

efeqtianad gamoiyenes mmarTveli

partiis winaaRmdeg da es abso-

luturad logikuria. sxvagvari

qceva gasakviri iqneboda, Tumca

axlandeli Semguebluri pozac

xom bevr rames niSnavs...

_ daviwyoT imiT, ra moigo

opoziciam? _ Tu gamarjveba undaT

_ veraferi; amerikis mxridan

xelisuflebis mimarT gamkacrebuli

toni _ ki batono, Tumca

iqac kongresisa da saxelmwifo

departamentis pozicia srul

TanxvedraSi ar iyo: erTi ufro

xistia, meore _ naklebad. Tumca

amerikis axali elCis zemoT moyvanili

gancxadebis Semdeg, sadac

is samarTliani arCevnebis Catarebaze

xazgasmiT saubrobs, ara mgonia,

saqarTvelos xelisuflebas

kargi dReebi daudges. miT ufro,

rom opozicia moldoveli oligarqis,

romelic, imavdroulad,

mmarTveli partiis Tavmjdomarec

iyo _ ploxotniukis mimarT

amerikuli sanqciebis dawesebis

Semdeg gulmocemulia da maqsimalurad

imuSavebs ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg analogiuri sanqciebis

SemosaRebad, rasac mxolod

ivaniSvilis premierad dabrunebam

SeiZleba SeuSalos xeli.

_ iseTi STabeWdileba rCeba,

rom xelisuflebaSi aravin

fiqrobs am mimarTulebiT an

ironiiT uyureben am SesaZle-

blobas...

_ saocari sityvebi amovikiTxe

2 dRis win amerikel kongresmen

malinis Ria werilSi gaxariasadmi,

sadac is saqarTvelos xelisuflebis

winaaRmdeg amerikuli sanqciebis

dawesebaze saubrobs:

„rogorc warmomadgenelTa palatam,

aseve senatma miiRo da prezidentma

daamtkica zedized ori,

yovelwliuri sabiujeto kanoni

2019 da 2020 wlebisTvis, romelic

saqarTvelos mTavrobis progresirebad

mtrul qmedebebze

demokratiuli Rirebulebebis,

Tavisufali sabazro principebisa

da amerikuli biznesinteresebis

winaaRmdeg wuxilebs asaxavda.

pirvelad saqarTvelos Tanamedrove

istoriis ganmavlobaSi,

Tqveni qveyana aSS-is sabiujeto

kanonebze msjelobisas uaryofiT

Suqze da sifrTxiliT ganixileboda.

im uaryofiTi trendidan gamomdinare,

romelic me aRvwere

da am trendis SeCerebis xelSesawyobad,

gaizarda SeSfoTebis gaJRereba

da aseve mowodebebi sanqciebisa

da sxva sadamsjelo zomebis

Sesaxeb. me reformis Sesaxeb am

mowodebas vuerTdebi da wlis

dasawyisSi aSS-is warmomadgenlobiT

palataSi saqarTveloSi patiosani

biznespraqtikis sanqciebis

aqti warvadgine”, _ netav, Tu

xvdeba xelisufleba axla mainc,

sadamde miiyvanes sakuTari Tavi

da rogor gamouval CixSi Sevidnen?!

_ 2016 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebis Semdeg, TviTmmarTvelobis

arCevnebis Semde-

gac, Cven vsaubrobdiT saarCevno

sistemis gaumarTaobaze. maxsovs

Tqveni mosazreba, rom opozicias

mxolod arCevnebis win ar unda

axsendebodes saarCevno kodeqsi.

axlac igive viTareba gvaqvs _

dRes aravis axsovs saarCevno

kodeqsi. an axsovT im doziT, ra

iqneba maTTvis sasargeblo, an

rogor moirgon arsebuli mode-

li. am mxriv ra gveSveleba? anu

ra eSveleba Tavad saarCevno

process da ra vuyoT kodeqss,

romelic erTia, rom xarvezebi-

Taa savse da meorea, rom arasa-

Tanado administrirebis gamo xelisuflebebis

gamarjvebis ga-

rantiaa. garantiad vgulisxmob

viTarebas, rodesac amomrCevel-

Ta Tundac 40% rCeba saxlSi.

sxva situaciaSi vin da rogor manipulirebs,

es didi xania, kar-

gad viciT.

12

12 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


evraziis kavSirSi SevforTxdebiT...~

_ xazgasmiT unda iTqvas, rom

dRemde saqarTveloSi ganxorcielebuli

yvela saarCevno cvlileba

mxolod im dros xelisuflebaSi

myofi partiis mier Zalauflebis

SenarCunebas emsaxureboda.

arada, Tu gvinda liderebis

axali Taobis gamoCenagazrda

da is, rom partiebi xalxis

interesebs warmoadgendnen

politikaSi da ara sakuTari qarvaslebi

hqondeT gaxsnili, maSin

idealuri iqneboda regionulproporciuli

an mravalmandatiani

maJoritaruli Ria, anu

preferenciuli siebiT arCevnebis

Catareba, sadac siaSi myof

politikosebs amomrCeveli ani-

Webs numeracias sakuTari simpa-

Tia-antipaTiis mixedviT da parlamentSic

is xvdeba, vinc ama Tu

im partiis siaSi amomrCevlis yvelaze

didi mxardaWeriT sargeblobs.

arada, am sistemaze qarTuli

politikuri partiebi TiTqmis

ar saubroben, radgan es liderebis

mier marTvis sadaveebis Sesustebasa

da partiebis SigniT met

demokratias niSnavs. es ki ar awyobT.

hoda, gekiTxebiT, liderebi,

romlebic sakuTari partiebis

SigniT demokratias ewinaaRmdegebian,

qveynaSi demokratias aaSeneben?!

_ axla ukve cxadi xdeba, rom

qveyanaSi aranairi mesame poli-

tikuri centri _ Zala ar iqneba.

amas xels uSlis rogorc xelisu-

fleba, aseve opoziciuri spe-

qtri. Tu vinme cdilobs gamoC-

ndes da gvqonda amis ramdenime

mcdeloba, orpolusiani partiu-

li media maSinve iwyebs axali

Zalisa Tu personebis marginalizebas.

aseT viTarebaSi, umniSvnelo

cvlilebebis garda, elodebiT,

rom saqarTvelos parlamentis

momavali Semadgenloba arsobrivad

gansxvavebuli iqneba am-

Jamindelisgan?

_ obieqturi xelis SemSleli

pirobebis garda, mesame politikuri

centris gaCenas saTanado

politikuri liderebis aryolac

uSlis xels. aviRoT igive mamuka

xazaraZe, romelsac arc finansebi

aklia da arc _ mxardaWera mediis

mxridan, magram aklia mTavari

_ gamarjvebis energetika da

brZolis Jini: sad unaxavs mag

dalocvils preskonferenciebiT

mogebuli arCevnebi?! is sworad

dagegmes, rom xazaraZe-jafariZis

winaaRmdeg gamarTul sasamarTlo

procesebs programisa da xedvebis

prezentaciebisTvis gamoiyeneben,

rom mTlad sasamarTloTi

ar gadaifaros maTi politaqtivoba,

magram es xom ar aris

sakmarisi arCevnebze, met-naklebad,

seriozuli Sedegis dasadebad?!

Tumca problemad rCeba „nacionalebTan”

identificirebac _

arada, ganze gadgebi da opoziciuri

erTobis winaaRmdegi gamodixar.

_ raoden samwuxaroc ar unda

iyos, qarTveli obivatelis da

ara mxolod maTi _ qarTuli

politikuri speqtris warmomadgenelTa

Tvalsawieri am globalizebul

samyaroSi Zalian dapataravda.

Cven, realurad, rusTave-

ùaRresad simptomaturi iyo anakliis portTan dakavSirebiT batoni roman

kakulias gancxadeba, rom saqarTvelos xelisuflebam anakliis portze uari

ruseTis muqaris gamo Tqva, raTa TiTqosda qveynis usafrTxoeba gadaerCinaT.

90-ian wlebSi SevardnaZem azerbaijanisa da TurqeTis maSindel liderebTan

erTad qveyanasa da regions ruseTisgan alternatiuli energoderefnis

funqcia SesZina da swored amis gamo ruseTma masze ori teraqti

ganaxorciela. man es fasi gadaixada imaSi, rom saqarTvelo provinciuli

postsabWoTa qveynidan aSS-isa da evropis strategiul partniorad qceuliyo.

axla ki sad migviyvans aseTi daTmobebis gziT siaruli?!~

lis gamziris iqiT ver viyurebiT.

ar vgulisxmob imas, rom Cven

trampsac ki vaswavliT Wkuas da

_ makronsac; lamis zepirad vic-

iT TariRi, rodis daingreva

ruseTis imperia da a. S. vgulisx-

mob imas, rom realurad araferi

viciT im safrTxeebisa da gamo-

wvevebis Sesaxeb, romelic Cvens

regionSi arsebobs da im proces-

ebs, romelic uSualod axdens

gavlenas qveynis _ qarTuli sax-

elmwifos perspeqtivebze. am

mxriv ra molodinebi gaqvT 2020

wels? miT ufro im movlenebis

fonze, rasac vakvirdebodiT aSSiranis

sakmaod safrTxis Semcve-

li movlenebis dros.

_ erTi mxriv, negatiuri _ radgan

TviT demokratiuli dasav-

ìgive mamuka xazaraZe, romelsac arc finansebi

aklia da arc - mxardaWera mediis mxridan,

magram aklia mTavari - gamarjvebis energetika

da brZolis Jini: sad unaxavs mag dalocvils

preskonferenciebiT mogebuli arCevnebi?! is

sworad dagegmes, rom xazaraZe-jafariZis

winaaRmdeg gamarTul sasamarTlo procesebs

programisa da xedvebis prezentaciebisTvis

gamoiyeneben, rom mTlad sasamarTloTi ar

gadaifaros maTi politaqtivoba, magram es

xom ar aris sakmarisi arCevnebze, met-naklebad,

seriozuli Sedegis dasadebad?!~

leTic ki Zalian aWrilia Rirebulebebisa

da prioritetebis

mxriv da amis magaliTad safrangeTis

prezident makronis

sityvebi gamodgeba, romelic

erT-erT saitze gamoqveynda, sadac

is acxadebs, rom mzad aris

ruseTTan ufro axlo urTierTobebisTvis,

rac masTan erTad

evropis usafrTxoebis arqiteqturis

agebaSic gamoixateba, miuxedavad

imisa, rom ruseTi xangrZliv

brZolaSia, konfliqteb-

Sia Cabmuli Tavis mezoblebTano.

meore mxriv, _ pozitiur molodinebs

qmnis saqarTvelos mimarT

amerikis axali elCis Riad mxardamWeri

mowodebebi. mokled, imis

Tqma minda, rom arc siraqlemis

pozaa gamosavali, magram realobis

gaTvaliswinebac gvmarTebs.

_ ar vici, ramdenad dameT-

anxmebiT, magram Cemi emocia unda

gagiziaroT: erTgvarad Sokic ki

miviRe, rodesac aSS-irans Soris

daZabuli urTierTobis dros

qarTuli politikuri speqtris

erTi nawili Riad iTxovda xelisuflebisgan

poziciis dafiq-

sirebas da usafrTxoebis sabWos

sxdomis mowvevas Sesabamisi gada-

wyvetilebisTvis. aseve Riad ga-

keTebuliyo aSS-is mxardasaWeri

da iranis dasagmobi gancxadebe-

bi. CemTvis cxadze ucxadesia,

rom aranairi Ria gancxadebebi

vaSingtons Tbilisisgan ar

sWirdeboda. ratom, esec cxadia

da am Temis gaSlas ar vapireb.

magram Sefaseba minda, _ ramde-

nad pragmatuli iyo aseTi saxis

gancxadebebi da ramdenad sworad

moiqcnen xelisuflebis calkeu-

li struqturebi, rodesac am

narativs ar ayvnen? iqneb, zogadadac

axsnaT, ramdenad mizanSe-

wonilia kuluaruli politikis

gasajaroeba kritikul viTareba-

Si? amas gekiTxebiT, rogorc sferos

eqspertsa da profesion-

als.

_ es is SemTxvevaa, roca saqarTvelos

xelisufleba windaxedulad

moiqca, magram iranisgan da

axlo aRmosavleTisgan gansxvavebiT,

romelTa kargi specialistebi

saqarTveloSi namdvilad gvyavs

da arc informaciis naklebobas

ganvicdiT, Tqveni Tqmis ar iyos,

Sokis momgvreli iyo, roca aRmovaCne,

rom sruliad politikur

speqtrs warmodgena ar aqvs da

arc miiCnevs saWirod, rom hqondes,

Tu ra xdeba im qveyanaSi,

romelic saqarTvelos usafrTxoebis

Tavze dakiduli mTavari

maxvilia da Tanac, karis mezobeli

_ ruseTSi. iq mimdinare bolodroindel

movlenebze: premierisa

da konstituciis cvlilebebze

qarTuli politikuri speqtris

gamoxmaurebebma gvaCvena, rom Cven

sruli politikuri xeibrebi varT

ruseTSi mimdinare procesebTan

mimarTebiT: aravin icis, ra mzaddeba

ruseTSi; midis putini da

„mayureblad” anu Crdilovan

mmarTvelad rCeba; Tu midis, ma-

Sin visTan gviwevs saubari _ ar

unda gvainteresebdes?! roca

politikur Zalebs aseTi strategiuli

mimarTulebebiT xedvebi ki

ara, interesic ar gaaCniaT, mere

imedgacruebuli amomrCevlis ra

unda gvikvirdes?

_ ra Tqma unda, gverds ver

avuvli afxazeTis sakiTxs da iq

ganviTarebul movlenebs. maT

fonze sakuTar Tavs davusvi

kiTxva, _ xval rom dadges, met-

naklebad, xelsayreli momenti da

afxazebi wamovidnen molaparake-

bebze, viciT, raze unda vesaubr-

oT? viciT da gaazrebuli gvaqvs,

risi daTmoba SegviZlia da risi

_ ara? cxadia, aq viTarebis Semfaseblad

da, gnebavT, momlapar-

akeblad ver gamogvadgebian is

adamianebi, romlebic acxadeben,

_ arafers vuTmobT! gvaqvs ki

saxelmwifos rame saxis konsensusi

am sakiTxze, Tu rogorc gvCve-

via xolme, fors-maJorSi unda

miviRoT gadawyvetilebebi da

mudam cudsa da uaress Soris va-

keToT arCevani?

_ analogiuri _ politikuri

xeibroba gvWirs afxazeTis mimarTulebiTac:

arc „momlaparakebeli”

adamianebi gvyavs da arc informacia

gvaqvs, ra xdeba afxazeTSi

da ar gvaqvs gana imitom,

rom ar aris xelmisawvdomi,

aramed _ ar gvainteresebs. aranairi

mzadeba „SesaZleblobebis fanjris”

gaxsnisTvis _ ekonomikuri,

socialuri, mentaluri, saxalxo

diplomatiis doneze _ arc xelisuflebisa

da arc danarCeni

politikuri speqtris mxridan.

_ da isev qarTul politikur

cxovrebas davubrundebi, _ ra

aris is maqsimumi, risi miRwevac

SeuZlia opozicias arCevnebis

dRemde Sesabamisi SedegisTvis da

ra aris is, rasac daTmobs „oc-

neba” sakuTari Zalauflebis

SesanarCuneblad?

_ „ocneba” arafris daTmobas

ar apirebs, opoziciam unda daanaxos

xalxs _ ras sTavazobs ukeTess?

opoziciis jamuri reitingi,

romelic NDI-is bolo kvlevebiT

„ocnebisaze” metia, niSnavs mxolod

maRal opoziciur ganwyobas

sazogadoebaSi, magram _ ara

opoziciuri partiebis gamarjvebas,

radgan opozicia erTiani sxeuli

ar aris. magaliTad, vinmes

warmoudgenia, rom „patriotTa

aliansi” „qarTul ocnebas” uganebs

da romelime opoziciur partias

Seekreba? kvlevebi cxadyofs,

rom xelisuflebis mTavari

gamowveva opoziciis erTianobaa.

amitom axla xelisuflebis mTavari

mizani iqneba, rom nebismieri

formiT: garigebiT, mosyidviT,

SantaJiT, daSinebiT _ opozicias

gaerTianebis saSualeba ar misces.

Tumca opozicias „oqros rezervi”

aqvs.

gagrZeleba 23-e gv.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

13


am da sxva mniSvnelovan Temebze

„qronika+~ „erTiani saqa-

rTvelo _ demokratiuli

moZraobis” lider nino bur-

janaZes esaubra:

_ xelisuflebasa da opozi-

cias Soris ar dasrulebula

kamaTi imaze, Catardeba Tu ara

proporciuli sistemiT 2020

wlis saparlamento arCevnebi.

sadResaswaulo periodiT gan-

pirobebuli pauza xom ar

Seanelebs saprotesto muxts

sazogadoebaSi?

_ es pauza absoluturad

bunebrivi iyo, amaze Cven gavakeTeT

kidec gancxadeba. ubralod,

araadekvaturi iqneboda

1-2 ianvars an Tundac 7 ianvars

opoziciis aqtiuri Sexvedrebi

da komentarebi yofiliyo am

TemasTan dakavSirebiT. yvelafers

Tavisi dro da adgili aqvs.

RvTis wyalobiT, jerjerobiT,

da imedia, asec iqneba, procesebi

mSvidobiania. aqedan gamomdinare,

iseTi forsmaJori ar

iyo, rom axali wlis dReebSi

isedac datvirTuli da Sewuxebuli

adamianebi kidev ufro

dagvetvirTa. Zalian samwuxaro

realobaa is, rom ver vnaxe adamiani,

romelsac saaxalwlo

ganwyoba hqonda, Cemi CaTvliT.

miuxedavad imisa, rom Zalian

miyvars axali weli da gacilebiT

ukeTesi ganwyoba SeiZleba

mqondes, vidre bevr adamians,

imdenad mZime fonia qveyanaSi,

romc ar giWirdes, mainc ar

gaqvs saaxalwlo ganwyoba. amitom,

bunebrivia, swori iyo, rom

garkveuli pauza aviReT, maT

Soris, amas ganapirobebda diplomatiuri

korpusis aryofna

qveyanaSi da isic, rom procesi

daiZra. rac ar unda ilaparakos

xelisuflebam, rom am Sexvedrebs

Sedegebi ar hqondao,

faqtia, Sedegebi aris, maT Soris,

sazogadoebisa da axalgazrdebis

aqtiurobis TvalsazrisiT.

Tqven gaxsovT, xelisufleba

ambobda, rom saerTod

ar apirebda saubars da aranair

sakiTxs ar ganixilavda, magram

miuxedavad aseTi kategoriuli

gancxadebebisa, maT calkeuli

winadadebebis SemoTavazeba

daiwyes, maT Soris, sakonstitucio

cvlilebebisac. ase rom,

Zalian bevria damokidebuli

imaze, ramdenad mkveTri da Tan-

14

òpoziciis mTavari berketi

jer kidev gaurkvevelia, ro

jer kidev gaurkvevelia, ro-

nene injgia

gori saarCevno sistemiT Catarde-

nino

591 71 39 98 ba 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebi.

xelisuflebasa da opozi-

cias Soris kamaTi ar dasrulebula. dialogis procesi log-

ikurad dapauzda axali wlisa da sadResaswaulo periodis gamo.

2019 wels, mas Semdeg, rac „qarTulma ocnebam” sakonstitucio

burjanaZe:

cvlilebebi Caagdo, opozicia da sazogadoebis didi nawili am

faqts aqtiurad aprotestebda. „erTiani saqarTvelo _ dem-

okratiuli moZraobis” lideri nino burjanaZe acxadebda, rom

revoluciur scenars ar gamoricxavda. ras fiqrobs am gadmo-

saxedidan revoluciur scenarze? ra berketebi aqvs opozicias

imisTvis, rom 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebi proporciuli

saarCevno sistemiT Catardes?

mimdevruli iqneba Tavis moTxovnebSi

opozicia da ramdenad

seriozulad iaqtiurebs sazogadoeba

da gansakuTrebiT,

axalgazrdebi. vfiqrob, opozicia

namdvilad SeZlebs, xelisuflebis

mxridan bevri mcdelobis

miuxedavad, proporciuli

arCevnebis moTxovnasTan dakav-

SirebiT erToba SeinarCunos,

radgan es ar aris romelime

partiis moTxovna, es aris sazogadoebis

dakveTa, brZola ki

Zalian mniSvnelovania.

_ ra berketebi gaqvT am

mocemulobaSi opozicias imisTvis,

rom xelisufleba aiZu-

loT, proporciuli saarCevno

sistemiT Caataros 2020 wlis

saparlamento arCevnebi?

_ mTavari berketi aris opoziciuri

politikuri partiebis

Tanmimdevruli brZola da

opoziciuri magidis erToba,

radgan es aris pirveli SemTxveva

saqarTvelos istoriaSi,

rodesac yvela politikuri

partia simpaTiebis, antipaTiebisa

da mtrobis miuxedavadac

ki, gaerTianda erTi moTxovniT

ivaniSvilisa da „qarTuli ocnebis”

winaaRmdeg, rom movipovoT

proporciuli, Tavisufali

da demokratiuli arCevnebi.

Zalian mniSvnelovani berketia

sazogadoeba da media, es yvela

qveyanaSi gadamwyvetia da mas

Cvens SemTxvevaSic principuli

mniSvneloba eqneba. umniSvnelovanesia

saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis

zewola, radgan igi

Zalian aqtiuri da mowadinebulia,

rom qveyanaSi normaluri

arCevnebi Catardes.

_ gasul wels araerTxel

aRniSneT, rom ar gamoricx-

avdiT revoluciur scenars,

Tu xelisufleba proporciul

arCevnebs ar dasTanxmdeboda.

ra SemTxvevaSi SeiZleba ganvi-

Tardes es scenari?

_ revoluciuri scenaris

ganviTarebis aranairi survili

ar maqvs, radgan Zalian kargad

vici, rom yvelaze naklebad Zaladobriv

revoluciasac ki

yovelTvis mZime procesebi

moyveba. rodesac revoluciaze

vsaubrob, es Cemi survili ki ar

aris, piriqiT, es aris Cemi SeSfoTeba,

rom SeiZleba viTareba

am gziT wavides da xelisuflebas

vafrTxileb, rom es aravi-

`revoluciuri

scenaris

ganviTarebis

aranairi

survili

ar maqvs~

Tar SemTxvevaSi ar unda moxdes!

ase rom, es vaiviSi, rac

„qarTuli ocnebis” trolebma

atexes, TiTqos burjanaZes revolucia

unda, arc erT Cems sityvaSi

msgavsi araferi yofila.

revolucia arc 2003 wels mindoda.

CemTvis rom daejerebina

maSindel xelisuflebas SevardnaZis

xelmZRvanelobiT, „vardebis

revolucia” ar moxdeboda,

magram iqneboda evoluciuri

ganviTarebis gza. aseve

arc saakaSvilma daijera, rasac

veubnebodi da, praqtikulad,

revoluciamde miiyvana qveyana.

revolucia ar minda, aramed

qveynis evoluciuri ganviTareba,

magram ugunur xelisuflebebs

Tavisi araswori moqmedebebiT

qveynebi revoluciamde

mihyavT da Cvens xelisuflebas

vafrTxileb, rom es ar moxdes.

vaitrolebs kidev vetyvi, rom

didad Tavs nu Seiwuxeben, radgan

me ar vkiTxulob ugunuri

da uwignuri adamianebis, 5 miliardis

brwyinvalebaze gayiduli

adamianebis komentarebs.

Tumca informacia maqvs, ama Tu

im gamonaTqvamze rogori interpretaciis

mibmas cdiloben

kudad.

_ mediaSi vrceldeba informacia,

rom SesaZloa, premierministris

postze biZina iva-

niSvili dabrundes. eqspertTa

nawilis azriT, amiT „qarTul

ocnebas” xelisuflebaSi dar-

Cenis Sansi eqneba. iziarebT Tu

ara am pozicias?

_ jer erTi, ivaniSvilis politikaSi

mosvla Secdoma iyo

imitom, rom oligarqi xelisuflebaSi

mosvlas ar unda cdilobdes.

roca xelisuflebaSi

Zalian didi biznesmeni modixar,

es ar niSnavs, rom politika

kargad ici. marTalia, ivaniSvils

egona, yvelafers sam Tve-

ès monacemebi xelisuflebisTvis

katastrofulia, radgan arasdros yofila

xelisuflebisadmi ndoba aseTi dabali. miT

ufro, arasdros iyo ndobis vardna im

masStabis, rogoric am xelisuflebis

pirobebSia iseTi struqturebisadmi, rogoric

aris Tundac jari an prezidenti~

14 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

Si daalagebda, magram vxedavT,

rom ukve 7 weli gavida da absoluturad

araferi ar dalagebula,

ubralod cxovreba im

adamianebma dailages, viszec

ivaniSvilma aqcenti gaakeTa. mis

politikaSi mosvlas me, Tavis

droze, imitom mivesalme, rom

misi saxsrebidan da SesaZleblobidan

gamomdinare, is saSualebas

iZleoda, saakaSvili usisxlod

gagveSva da es, ra Tqma

unda, mniSvnelovani iyo. is

unda darCeniliyo premier-ministris

Tanamdebobaze. rodesac

pirvelad gacxadda informacia,

rom ivaniSvili gadadgomas

da CrdilSi wasvlas apirebs, me

mas Riad mivmarTe, rom ar wasuliyo,

radgan zustad vicodi,

ras gamoiwvevda Crdilovani

mmarTveloba. axla misi dabruneba

ramdenad uSvelis situacias,

rTuli saTqmelia, _ is,

rogorc partiis Tavmjdomare,

dabrunda da piroba mogvca,

rom yvelafers daalagebda, magram,

realurad, veraferi dalagda.

rac Seexeba xelisuflebis

ara absoluturi, aramed

raRac nawilis SenarCunebas,

amis Sansi ivaniSvils namdvilad

eqneba, Tu is adekvaturad moiqceva,

arCevnebs normalurad

Caatarebs da am erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi

ar Seecdeba Savi fulis

gamoyenebas oponentebis,

mediis, sasamarTlosa da prokuraturis

winaaRmdeg. aseT

SemTxvevaSi mas namdvilad eqneba

SesaZlebloba, rom xelisuflebis

raRac nawili misi kontrolis

qveS darCes.

_ NDI-is axali kvlevebis

mixedviT, xval rom saparla-

mento arCevnebi tardebodes,

jamSi opozicias imaze meti

adamiani uWers mxars, vidre _

„qarTul ocnebas”. raze metyvelebs

es faqti da rogor un-

da gamoiyenos opoziciam es

mocemuloba?


opoziciuri magidis erTobaa!~

_ CemTvis ufro mniSvnelovania

is, rasac zogadad vxedav

sazogadoebaSi. am SemTxvevaSi

NDI-is kvlevis tendenciebma,

rac sazogadoebriv ganwyobebs

gulisxmobs problemebTan dakavSirebiT,

namdvilad asaxa realoba.

rogorc wesi, am kvlevebs

axasiaTebs, rom tendencias

sworad aCvenebs, oRond Zalian

didia cdomileba, rodesac sakiTxi

exeba politikuri partiebis

an liderebis reitings,

magram, TavisTavad, NDI-is kvleva

zustad daemTxva imas, rasac

sazogadoebaSi vxedav, _ seriozul

ukmayofilebasa da nihilizms

xelisuflebis moqmedebebis

mimarT. es monacemebi xelisuflebisTvis

katastrofulia,

radgan arasdros yofila

xelisuflebisadmi ndoba aseTi

dabali. miT ufro, arasdros

iyo ndobis vardna im masStabis,

rogoric am xelisuflebis

pirobebSia iseTi struqturebisadmi,

rogoric aris Tundac

jari an prezidenti. samwuxaroa,

rom es kvleva xelisuflebis

Zalian mZime realobas

aCvenebs, Tumca xelisuflebas

amis danaxva ar unda.

_ kidev erTi mniSvnelovani

angariSi gamoaqveyna gavlenianma

uflebadamcvelma orga-

nizacia Human Rights Watch-ma,

sadac naTqvamia, rom 20 ivniss

mTavrobam mSvidobiani aqcieb-

is dasaSlelad gadametebuli

Zala gamoiyena. samarTaldamcvelTa

mier Cadenili kanondarRvevis

dausjeloba ki saqa-

rTveloSi problemad rCeba.

amasTan dakavSirebiT xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi amboben,

rom organizacia „na-

cionaluri moZraobis” mier

kontrolirebadi arasamTavroboebis

miwodebul informacias

eyrdnoba. raze mety-

velebs mmarTveli gundis es

gancxadeba?

_ es am xelisuflebis absolutur

ugunurebaze, ucodinarobasa

da ususurobaze metyvelebs.

Human Rights Watch-Si, Sei-

Zleba, romelime opoziciurma

partiam an gavlenianma arasam-

Tavrobo organizaciam Tavisi

mosazreba miitanos, magram absoluturad

Secvalos Human

Rights Watch-is ganwyoba da dokumentis

Sinaarsi, es warmoudgenelia.

imisTvis, rom xelisufleba

mixvdes, „nacionaluri

moZraoba” ar aris yovlisSemZle,

mas vurCev waikiTxos

Human Rights Watch-is 2011-

2012 wlebis angariSi, sadac

aseve Zalian mwvaved aris gakritikebuli

„nacionaluri moZraoba”

2011 wlis 26 maisis movlenebis

gamo. e. i., maSin, roca „nacionaluri

moZraoba” xelisuflebaSi

iyo, ver akontrolebda

Human Rights Watch-s da axla

akontrolebs?! yvelafers saz-

Rvari aqvs, Tumca am xelisuflebis

ucodinarobam absolu-

`rac ar unda ilaparakos afxazeTisa Tu cxinvalis regionis xelisuflebam

an warmomadgenelma, sanam iqidan mkvidri mosaxleoba gandevnilia da sanam

devnilebi TavianT saxlebSi ar dabrundebian, manam veranair

samarTlianobasa da demokratiulobaze ver isaubreben. arCevnebsac

yovelTvis eqneba è. w.~ TavsarTi. is, rom dialogTan dakavSirebiT signalebi

gaCnda, es nebismier SemTxvevaSi sasurvelia~

turad yvelanairi zRvari gadalaxa.

meore mxriv, Tu romelime

organizacia da, maT Soris,

Human Rights Watch-i aseTi

advilad samarTavia, opozicias

ufro advilad SeuZlia marTva

Tu xelisuflebaSi myof da 5

miliardis patron biZina ivani-

Svils?! Tu SesaZlebelia romelime

organizaciis marTva, ma-

Sin gainZrnen da TviTon mar-

Ton. Cven xom viciT, rom rac

Human Rights Watch-Si daiwera,

maT Soris, sasamarTloze, prokuraturasa

da a. S., es namdvilad,

is samwuxaro realobaa,

romelSic dRes vcxovrobT.

_ okupirebul regionSi

bolo Tveebis ganmavlobaSi

mZime politikuri krizisia, 10

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

ianvars ki ruseTis mier okupirebuli

afxazeTis e. w. umaRlesma

sasamarTlom seqtember-

Si Catarebuli saprezidento

arCevnebis Sedegebi gaauqma,

xolo Tanamdebobidan gadadga

okupirebuli afxazeTis e.w

prezidenti raul xajimba. es

movlenebi ra kuTxiT SeiZleba

gamoiyenos Cveni qveynis xe-

lisuflebam?

_ ver getyviT, rom CemTvis

raul xajimbas gadadgoma mosalodneli

iyo, magram is, rom

am e. w. saprezidento arCevnebs

mZime Sedegebi moyveboda, es

naTeli iyo, radgan xajimbas ar

hqonda maRali avtoriteti da

iseTi monacemebi hqonda pirvel

turSi, rom namdvilad

`sainteresoa Tavad premieris figura, romelic

ruseTis prezidentma vladimir putinma

daasaxela. yuradRebiT wavikiTxe am adamianis

biografia da namdvilad Zalian saintereso

adamiania, romelmac uzarmazari reformebi

Caatara sagadasaxado-safinanso sferoSi,

imdenad mniSvnelovani reformebi, rom yvela

saerTaSoriso organizacia aRiarebda am

reformebs, rogorc samagaliTos~

Zalian seriozuli gayalbeba

sWirdeboda meore turSi mosagebad.

man Secdoma dauSva, ra

Tqma unda. sjobda, saqme aqamde

ar misuliyo da arCevnebi

normalurad Catarebuliyo an

konsultaciebi yofiliyo

opoziciis warmomadgenlebTan.

es ase ar moxda, ratomRac, iqac

moqmedma xelisuflebam yuri

moiyrua da ar gaigona sazogadoebis

meore nawilis azri.

roca aseTi viTarebaa, garkveuli

krizisi gardauvalia, Tumca

namdvilad visurvebdi, nebismieri

Sida krizisis SemTxveva-

Si de faqto xelisuflebaSi

iyvnen adamianebi, romlebic

mzad arian, saqarTvelos danar-

Cen nawilTan an centralur xelisuflebasTan

dialogi awarmoon,

radgan rac ar unda ilaparakos

afxazeTisa Tu cxinvalis

regionis xelisuflebam

an warmomadgenelma, sanam

iqidan mkvidri mosaxleoba gandevnilia

da sanam devnilebi

TavianT saxlebSi ar dabrundebian,

manam veranair samarTlianobasa

da demokratiulobaze

ver isaubreben. arCevnebsac

yovelTvis eqneba „e. w.” Tavsar-

Ti. is, rom dialogTan dakav-

SirebiT signalebi gaCnda, es

nebismier SemTxvevaSi sasurvelia.

ar aris gamoricxuli, es

iyos signali ara mxolod

saqarTvelosTvis, aramed moskovisTvisac,

didi albaTobiT,

asec aris. nebismier SemTxveva-

Si, amas gonieri xelisufleba

pozitiurad gamoiyenebda, Tumca

SeZlebs Tu ara dRevandeli

qarTuli xelisufleba qveynis

interesebis sasargeblod moqmedebas,

ver getyviT.

_ politikosebis nawili miiCnevs,

rom okupirebul afx-

azeTSi proafxazuri Zalebi

cdiloben xelisuflebaSi mos-

vlas, rac dialogis wamowyeb-

is SesaZleblobas gvaZlevs.

Tqven rogor uyurebT am process

da aRiqvamT Tu ara opoz-

iciur Zalebs proafxazur

Zalebad?

_ Cven unda velaparakoT absoluturad

yvelas, xelisuflebis

yvela nawils afxazeTsa

da samaCabloSi, Tu gvinda

problemebis mogvareba, _ amaze

ori azri ar arsebobs. Tumca

Cveni qveynis xelisuflebam

Zalian bevri dro dakarga da

axlac kargavs. rac Seexeba

opoziciur Zalebs, Cven ar gvaqvs

zusti informacia imasTan

dakavSirebiT, Tu ra xdeba afxazeTSi,

vin ra poziciazea da

vis pozicias ra ganapirobebs.

am SemTxvevaSi mravalkiTxviani

amocanaa da Zalian bevri sakiTxia,

romelic SeiZleba ganapirobebdes

ama Tu im gancxadebas

da pozicias, amitom amas

Rrma Seswavla sWirdeba da arc

zedmeti gancxadebebis keTeba

mimaCnia sworad.

_ ruseTis mTavroba premier

dimitri medvedevis meTauro-

biT sruli SemadgenlobiT

gadadga, medvedevi ki mixeil

miSustinma Caanacvla. amis paralelurad

putini sakonstitu-

cio cvlilebebis iniciativiT

gamovida. rogor fiqrobT, ra

mizans emsaxureboda am momen-

tSi mTavrobis gadadgoma da

rogor SeiZleba, ruseTis Sida

procesebi aisaxos mis sagareo

politikaze?

_ vfiqrob, ruseTSi mniSvnelovani

gadawyvetileba miiRes.

sazogadoeba didi xnis ganmavlobaSi

eloda mTavrobis seriozul

ganaxlebas da axal premier-ministrsac.

faqtia, axali amocanebi

daisaxa axali reformebis

gasatareblad, romelic orientirebulia

qveynis socialurekonomikuri

mdgomareobis gaumjobesebaze,

reformebis ganxorcielebaze

da es, ra Tqma unda,

nebismieri qveynisTvis Zalian

mniSvnelovania. sainteresoa Tavad

premieris figura, romelic

ruseTis prezidentma vladimir

putinma daasaxela. yuradRebiT

wavikiTxe am adamianis biografia

da namdvilad Zalian saintereso

adamiania, romelmac uzarmazari

reformebi Caatara sagadasaxado-safinanso

sferoSi, imdenad

mniSvnelovani reformebi, rom

yvela saerTaSoriso organizacia

aRiarebda am reformebs,

rogorc samagaliTos. mas axasiaTeben,

rogorc Zalian saqmian

da seriozul figuras, ase rom,

es ruseTisTvis sasikeTo cvlilebebi

iqneba. imedi minda viqonio,

rom im blokebSi, romelic

sagareo urTierTobebs exeba,

konkretulad ki saqarTvelos-

Tan urTierTobas, iseTi tendencia

ganviTardeba, romelic xels

Seuwyobs rusul-qarTuli urTierTobebis

gaumjobesebas.

15

qveyanaSi mimdinare procesebze

„qronika+“ istorikoss, saqarTve-

los uzenaesi sabWos wevrs,

saqarTvelos damoukideblobis

aRdgenis aqtze xelmomwer beJan

javaxias esaubra:

_ mogesalmebiT! mimdinare

procesebi sakmaod bevri adamianisTvis

aRiqmeba rogorc yoveld-

Riuri movlena. realurad Tan-

amedrove epoqis istoriis

formirebis process vakvirdebiT.

gasagebia, rom erTi weli sakmaod

mcire droa istoriisTvis, magram,

amis miuxedavad, saintereso iqneba

Tqveni Sefaseba, _ rame for-

miT aris Tu ara SesaZlebeli,

2019 weli saqarTvelos, Tundac

politikuri istoriis fur-

clebze darCes? anu, realurad,

gasuli wlis Tqveneuli Sefaseba

mainteresebs.

_ CemTvis ukanaskneli Svidi weliwadi

aris ukansvlis wlebi da

maT Soris aris es 2019 welic. gansakuTrebiT

maSfoTebs, rom nelnela

ikargeba saqarTvelos mosaxleobaSi

Tavisuflebisa da damoukideblobisTvis

brZolis Jini,

sadRac qreba... etyoba, yoveldRiuroba

da ekonomikuri siduxWire

erT-erTi mTavari mizezia am ganwyobis,

Tumca, vfiqrob, es bolo

periodis zogadi problemacaa.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ sadRac es patriotuli heroika

aramoduricaa, uxeSad rom

vTqva, Tumca Cven isev gvaqvs problema

_ saqarTvelos teritoriis

didi nawili okupirebulia da safrTxec

arsebobs, radganac vfiqrob,

arsebuli xelisufleba kolaboracionistulia...

ise, 2019 wels

mainc SesamCnevia opoziciis gar-

Rveva _ met-naklebad, wina wlebTan

SedarebiT. gansakuTrebiT sasiamovnoa

axalgazrduli samoqalaqo

moZraobis gaaqtiureba, aseve ufro

meti nawili mosaxleobisa TandaTanobiT

gaerkva xelisuflebis

ormag TamaSSi da mgonia, is dRes

ufro gabedulia da momavali wlisTvisac

ase iqneba...

_ axla erTi ritorikuli kiTx-

va minda davsva: ra gvWirs aseTi,

rom araTu sxvisi gamocdileba da

magaliTebi ver gaxda CvenTvis an-

gariSgasawevi da dasafiqrebeli,

aramed sakuTar mZime Secdome-

bzec ver vswavlobT da dReniadag

araTu vimeorebT, axal-axal _

ufro mZime Secdomebs vuSvebT?

_ Secdomebis gareSe arc erTi

politikuri moZraoba ar arsebobs

da sxvac aravin gvyavs Cvens mdgomareobaSi

myofi qveynebidan, romelTac

unda gvaswavlon rame. Cveni

Secdoma is aris, rom ar gvyavs

Tamami da Tavisufali politikuri

moZraoba da gansakuTrebiT gvaklia

uSurveli da mamaci inteleqtualebi.

imperiis monobis qveS

xangrZlivma yofnam da aseve iman,

rogorc Cven warmovadgineT Cveni

warsuli, istoria, rogorc lavireba

imperiebs Soris, daRi daasva

Cvens azrovnebas. amdenad, gviWirs

Tavisufali arCevanisTvis brZola,

raRac pragmatulis Ziebis msurvelni

xSirad advilad vxvdebiT

imperiis tkbili kveris msxverpli...

miuxedavad arsebuli mZime mdgomareobisa,

Cven mainc gvaqvs didi

garRveva damoukideblobis gamocxadebis

Semdeg da es Cvens qveyanaSi

SedarebiT warmatebulia, vi-

16


àfxazeTis gareSe saqarTvelos

armaz metreveli

dre nebismier postsabWoTa qeyana-

Si _ garda baltiis qveynebisa. es

yvelaferi imis imeds maZlevs, rom

2020 warmatebuli iqneba.

_ ufro davkonkretdeT, afx-

azeTis Tema mainteresebs. Cven

odesme mogviwevs afxazebTan da-

laparakeba. miuxedavad Cveni maq-

simalizmisa da survilisa, rom-

elic xSirad emociur gancdebs

eyrdnoba, politika mainc pragma-

tizmia. ra realobac ar unda

Seiqmnas, arsebobs wiTeli xazebi

_ es afxazebisTvis aris kulturuli

avtonomia, romelsac ara-

sodes dasTanxmdebian, CvenTvis ki

maTi damoukidebloba, romelsac

aseve arasodes davTanxmdebiT.

rogoria Tqveni damokidebuleba

am sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT?

_ es yvelaze rTuli problemaa

da umTavresi sadardebeli mTeli

erisTvis. afxazeTis gareSe

saqarTvelos erTianoba warmoudgenlad

mimaCnia. afxazeTis dakargva

niSnavs Cveni mexsierebis didi

nawilis xelovnur amputacias.

pirvel rigSi, araTu unda davelaparakoT

afxazeTis mosaxleobas,

aramed Cven deklarirebuli

gvaqvs yvela dokumentiT, rom afxazeTi

saqarTvelos ganuyofeli

nawilia da es sakiTxi unda iyos

cocxali da ara ise, rogorc aq _

simboluri afxazeTis mTavroba,

romelic sruliad usicocxloa,

rac ufro dro gadis, raRac

balzamirebul lenins magonebs,

rom cocxalia, rom unda gvaxsovdes,

magram ar arsebobs...

saqarTvelos xelisufleba

yoveldRiurad unda icnobdes da

grZnobdes afxazeTis majiscemas,

ra xdeba am teritoriaze, ra Zalebi

moqmedeben da amis Sesaxeb

yoveldRiur informacias unda

awvdides saerTaSoriso organizaciebs

da maTgan reagirebas iTxovdes...

es aris yvelaze mniSvnelovani...

afxazeTisa da cxinvalis regionis

da misi yoveldRiurobis

miCumaTeba, am sakiTxis ukan gadaweva

ufro da ufro gvaSorebs

maTgan. Tu gaxsovT, da es minda sxvebsac

Sevaxseno, SeiZleba Cemi

citireba ar iyos zusti, magram ase

maxsovs: 1994 wels, rodesac saqar-

Tvelo Sevida dsT-Si (damoukidebel

saxelmwifoTa Tanamegobroba,

_ red.), anu ÑÍÃ-Si (Ñîäðóæåñòâî

Íåçàâèñèìûõ Ãîñóäàðñòâ), romelic

aris rusuli imperiuli gadmonaS-

Ti, am dRes parlamentis sxdomaze

SevardnaZem ganacxada, rom erTerTi

mTavari mizezi saqarTvelos

aq gaerTianebisa unda yofiliyo

afxazeTis dabruneba saqarTvelos

erTian sxeulTan da Tan dasZina,

rom es droulad unda gavakeToT,

beJan javaxia:

`saqarTvelos unda

hqondes Tavisi

axali narativi

qveynis istoriuli

mexsierebis Sesaxeb~

Torem xuTi wlis Semdeg gvian

iqnebao.

_ maxsovs es faqti. naxsenebi

xuTi welic maxsovs...

_ axla mainc Tu darwmunda vinme,

rom es iyo mxolod satyuara,

radganac iqamde _ 1992 wlis damdegisTvis,

SevardnaZes Jurnal

„komersantisTvis” micemul interviuSi

naTqvami hqonda, rom misi

mizani iyo saqarTvelos dabruneba

dsT-s SemadgenlobaSi da es Seasrula

sworedac 1994 wels. rodesac

isev ucxourma presam hkiTxa,

_ ratom aqamde ar Sevida saqarTvelo

dsT-Sio? upasuxa _ xalxi ar

iyo mzado... warmoidgineT, rogor

moamzada SevardnaZem da ruseTma

saqarTvelo dsT-Si Sesayvanad:

kriminaluri qaosiT, ekonomikuri

siduxWiriT, omebiT saqarTvelos

sxvadasxva teritoriaze da afxazeTisa

da cxinvalis regionis

dakargviT...

Cven da Cvenma xelisuflebam

unda imoRvaweos ise, rom afxazeTic

da cxinvalis regionic aris

erTiani saqarTvelo da mimarTos

yvela Rones, raTa ganaxorcielos

de iured saqarTvelos kanonebi am

teritoriaze. saqarTvelos nebismieri

xelisuflebis mier miRebul

kanonebsa da dadgenilebebSi unda

iyos miTiTebuli maTi gavrcelebis

SesaZlebloba da pirobebi okupirebul

teritoriebze...

_ sakmaod mZime amocanaa da

uaRresad rTuli arsebuli real-

obis gaTvaliswinebiT. ar

vgulisxmob formalur mxares,

aramed faqtobrivs...

_ aucilebelia, Tundac adamianis

uflebebis dacvis farglebSi

gavaaqtiuroT saerTaSoriso asparezze

afxazeTisa da cxinvalis

regionis problemebi. ramdeni

xania, ar gamarTula farTo ganxilva

afxazeTidan da cxinvalis

regionidan devnilTa dabrunebis

sakiTxze. rogorc Cans, arsebuli

xelisufleba saTanado doneze ar

icavs okupaciis kanons, dRemde

dausjelia oTxozorias mkvleli

da am sakiTxs ver misces farTo

rezonansi...

_ zemoT gkiTxeT, ra SeiZleba

iyos afxazebTan molaparakebis

pirobebSi politikuri daTmobis

sakiTxi an piriqiT?..

_ vin ras ar daTmobs, es drois

sakiTxia... es teritoria aris saqarTvelos

istoriuli teritoria

da aq arc arasodes yofila sxva

romelime eTnosi, garda qarTvel-

Ta da afxazTa. Cven ar unda Segvewyvita

brZola am teritoriaze

ZirZveli mosaxleobis uflebebis

aRsadgenad, maT dasabruneblad

saxlSi. diax, amas unda mivaRwioT

saerTaSoriso asparezze da Sem-

`vin ras ar daTmobs, es drois sakiTxia... es

teritoria aris saqarTvelos istoriuli

teritoria da aq arc arasodes yofila sxva

romelime eTnosi, garda qarTvelTa da

afxazTa. Cven ar unda Segvewyvita brZola am

teritoriaze ZirZveli mosaxleobis uflebebis

aRsadgenad, maT dasabruneblad saxlSi. diax,

amas unda mivaRwioT saerTaSoriso asparezze

da SemdegSi am teritoriaze mcxovrebi xalxi

TviTon miiRebs gadawyvetilebas~

16 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

degSi am teritoriaze mcxovrebi

xalxi TviTon miiRebs gadawyvetilebas.

sruliad gaugebaria,

rac xdeba. maSin rodesac rusebi

sxva qveynebis teritoriaze rusi

xalxis uflebebis dasacavad ibrZvian

da iq qmnian anklavebs, Cven ver

SevZeliT Cvens ZirZvel miwaze misi

istoriuli mesakuTris uflebebis

dacva...

_ magram isic unda vaRiaroT,

rom absoluturad sxvadasxva

mdgomareobaSi varT. Tumca es ar

niSnavs, rom Cveni Tanamoqalaqeebis

uflebebis dasacavad ar vi-

brZoloT...

_ arc niSnis mogebiT minda vTqva,

magram zviad gamsaxurdias

dros miRebuli kanoni afxazeTis

respublikis mimarT isev gasaaqtiurebelia.

anu pirveli rigis

amocana aris yvela Zalis mobilizeba

ltolvilTa dasabruneblad.

aqve Zalian cudia is, rom amjerad,

yovel SemTxvevaSi, ase Cans, Cemi

azriT, bolo wlebSi Zalian gaaqtiurebulia

Zveli, sabWoTa nomenklatura,

Tavisi saeWvo warsuliT.

_ es aSkarad Cans, magram Tqven

amiT risi Tqma gsurT?

_ aseTi biografiis adamianebi

Canan dReisTvis ufro metad, maT

Soris, vinc afxazeTze saubrobs.

_ gasagebia...

_ es qaosi qveyanaSi, romelsac

xelovnurad qmnis arsebuli reJimi

rusuli miTiTebebiT da aseve

ekonomikuri siduxWire, specialurad

iqmneba, radgan yuradReba

gadavides yoveldRiur Tavis gatanaze.

es rusuli imperiuli

politikis maxasiaTebelia.

Zalian bevrgan unda ismodes xma

afxazeTisa da cxinvalis regionis

Sesaxeb. meti unda daiweros

rogorc am problemaze, iseve misi

gadaWris sakiTxebze, warmoSobis

mizezebze. ar unda Seneldes qarTveli

adamianis mexsierebaSi afxazeTi

da samaCablo...

mogviwevs saubari afxazebTanac

da yvela sxva xalxTan qveynis er-

TianobisTvis. rogorc Cans, mniSvnelovani

xdeba ekonomikuri sakiTxebis

gadawyveta da winsvla

rogorc politikuri, aseve ekonomikuri

mimarTulebiT...

_ zemoT wiTeli xazebi vaxsene

da am konteqstSi arsebuli praq-

tikidan gamomdinare, rCeba ori

realuri modeli _ federacia da

konfederacia. am sakiTxebs miva-

pyroT yuradReba. nurc is dag-

vaviwydeba, rom afxazebi gasul

periodSi erTsac gvTavazobdnen

da _ meoresac. dRevandeli gada-

saxedidan Cven es Sansi xelidan

gavuSviT. am modelebis avkar-

gianobaze visaubroT.

_ yvela sakiTxze unda visaubroT.

vfiqrob, arsebul reJms am

sakiTxis gadawyveta ar SeuZlia. es

wlebi, rac es xelisuflebaa, Cven

ufro davSordiT sakiTxis gadawyvetis

SesaZleblobas. mmarTvelobis

forma unda gansazRvros iq

mcxovrebma mosaxleobam, romelic

iq iyo omis dawyebamde. arc erTi

daTmoba, romelzedac Cven wavalT,

sadac Selaxuli iqneba afxazeTis

teritoriaze nebismieri mcxovrebis

ufleba (vgulisxmob omamdel

mosaxleobas), ar migviyvans sakiTxis

gadawyvetamde, piriqiT _ dagva-

Sorebs mas. am teritoriaze ise-

Tive uflebebi aqvT iq mcxovreb

qarTvelebsac, rogorc _ afxazebs.

afxazeTis sakiTxi aris rusebis

mier xelovnurad Seqmnili. rode-


erTianoba warmoudgenlad mimaCnia~

sac Cven damoukidebloba gamovacxadeT,

maSinve miviReT signali

gorbaCovisgan, rom isini moaxdenen

zewolas avtonomiebze. amjerad

Cveni pirveli rigis amocana aris,

moviciloT es ivaniSvilis reJimi,

romelsac arc xalxis legitimacia

gaaCnia da Tanac kolaboracionistulia.

SemdegSi ki yvela samecniero

wrem, pilitikurma da samoqalaqo

organizaciebma, unda daiwyos

muSaoba, Tu ra gzebi unda davsaxoT

okupirebuli teritoriebis

mSvidobianad dasabruneblad...

_ okupirebuli teritoriebi

ar aris romelime calkeuli xe-

lisuflebis Tavis tkivili da

sazrunavi. es sakiTxi saerTo

erovnuli, saxelmwifoebrivi kon-

sensusis Tema unda iyos. Tema,

gnebavT, idea, romelzedac Tanxmdeba

ara mxolod romelime xe-

lisufleba, aramed politikuri

speqtri, sazogadoeba da saxelm-

wifos moqalaqeebi. xom ar fiqr-

obT, rom am Temaze diskusia unda

gaixsnas da Cven mivideT saerTo

niSnulamde, rodesac iqiTa mxares

zustad ecodineba _ diax, Cven ar

vTanxmdebiT damoukideblobas,

magram vTavazobT Tundac raRac

konkretuls?

_ diax, sworedac es aRvniSne

ukve. aucilebelia diskusia Cven

SigniT da aseve meti waxaliseba

samecniero wreebisa da SemoqmedebiTi

jgufebis, raTa maT izrunon

imisTvis, rom rusulma rbilma

Zalam, rusulma propagandam ar

daazianos kulturuli mexsiereba

Cveni istoriuli warsulis Sesaxeb.

Cven unda gaviazroT, rogor

muSaobda sabWoTa propagandis manqana

Cveni qveynis dasanawevreblad

da axla sworedac unda mivmarToT

mTeli Zalisxmeva aqeTken. Cven

axla varT gansakuTrebuli gamowvevebis

winaSe. damoukidebel

saqarTvelos unda hqondes Tavisi

axali narativi qveynis istoriuli

mexsierebis Sesaxeb, is teqsti,

romelic ganamtkicebs qveynis er-

Tianobas...

_ SesaZloa, auditorias, mkiTx-

vels gauCndes gancda, _ ratom

vmsjelobT ase gancalkevebulad

afxazeTze da imasve ar vimeorebT

e. w. yofili samxreT oseTis av-

tonomiur olqTan mimarTebiT?

Cven am mimarTulebiT saerTod

sxva gamowveva gvaqvs, _ vgulisx-

mob imas, rom cxinvals srulad

marTavs ruseTi da iq osebisTvis

ramis SeTavazeba Tavze nacris

gadaayraa. afxazeTSi ki saerTod

sxva realobaa. iqneb, amitom am

regionTan dakavSirebuli prob-

lemis Tqveneuli gadawyvetis

modeli gaaJReroT.

_ vfiqrob, rom midgoma erTnairi

unda gvqondes. sruliad uadgiloa,

rodesac Cveni warsulis gayalbebas

gvTavazoben imisTvis, rom

ar gavaRizianoT imperiuli Zalebi

an maT mier marTulebi. ar arsebobs,

yalb istoriaze raime realuri

aSendes. gvWirdeba mamaci

adamianebi, ase vTqvaT, „uvercxloni”.

Cven mZime amocanis winaSe vdgavarT

da kidev erTxel gavimeoreb,

es aris ivaniSvilis reJimis

mier imperiuli zemoqmedebis Sedegad

Seqmnili qaosi yvela mimarTulebiT.

gangaSi unda gamovacxadoT,

rogorc dakargul teritoriebze,

iseve qveynidan gadaxvewil

TiToeul moqalaqeze...

magram dRes aravis surs amis

gagoneba. daakvirdiT, nebismieri

`pirvel rigSi, araTu unda davelaparakoT afxazeTis mosaxleobas, aramed

Cven deklarirebuli gvaqvs yvela dokumentiT, rom afxazeTi saqarTvelos

ganuyofeli nawilia da es sakiTxi unda iyos cocxali da ara ise, rogorc

aq - simboluri afxazeTis mTavroba, romelic sruliad usicocxloa, rac

ufro dro gadis, raRac balzamirebul lenins magonebs, rom cocxalia, rom

unda gvaxsovdes, magram ar arsebobs...~

masmedia (albaT, vfiqrobT, drom

moitana) erideba nacionalur sakiTxebze

msjelobas. gasagebia, rom

es dReisTvis frTxil da gansxvavebul

midgomas moiTxovs. amas

mxolod Tqven akeTebT da aseTi

mediac Zalian iSviaTia, vinc Cveni

azriT dainteresdeba, im adamianebis

azriT, romelTac qveynis

damoukideblobisTvis ibrZoles.

_ mesmis Tqveni wuxili...

_ amas imitom vambob, rom mgonia,

meti pasuxismgeblobac gvaqvs.

Tumca inerciulad 1992 wlidan

xdeba Cveni marginalizacia. Cveni,

rogorc sakuTari, Tavisufali

azris mqoneTa. Torem ise bevrs

vicnob, vinc es warsuli ramdenime

politikur Zalaze kargad gayida

_ dawyebuli SevardnaZiT, Semdeg

saakaSvilTan, ivaniSvilTan da axlac

dadian erovnuli moZraobis

liderebis suraTebiT kabinetidan

kabinetebSi. vfiqrob da mawuxebs,

rodesac bevri Cemi kolega wers,

_ Cven damoukideblobis aqtze xelmomwerni.

minda ganvmarto, es xelmowera

imas ki ar niSnavs, rom

Cven movipoveT damoukidebloba,

aramed es aRniSnavs imas, rom Cven

erTmaneTs sityva miveciT, rom

davicavdiT damoukideblobis

principebs. amdenad, maqvs saTqmeli

da valdebuleba...

_ vaRiaroT, rom calkeul

SemTxvevebSi Cven istoriul orT-

abrZolaSi, anu sainformacio

omis farglebSi, istoriis war-

moCenaSi davmarcxdiT. amas hqon-

da ramdenime mizezi, erT-erTi ki

Cveni dardimandobac iyo. vgu-

lisxmob imas, rom imdenad darw-

munebulebi varT Cvens simarTle-

Si, ramis mtkicebac ki gveuxerxuleba

_ es msubuqad vTqvi. rodesac

mimdinareobs polemika istoriul

WrilSi, erTi umTavresi argumenti

gvaqvs _ ena da istoriuli

Zeglebi. ra iyo afxaz mTavar-

Ta (da ara marto) sametyvelo ena

da ra enazea warwerebi istoriul

Zeglebze? vgoneb, dResac vagebT

am sainformacio oms. sad xedavT

gamosavals da arsebobs Tu ara

SesaZlebloba, rom gardatexa

SevitanoT am mimarTulebiT?

rogoria am mxriv istorikosebis

roli da ramdenad arian isini aq-

tiurebi?

_ sworedac amaze vsaubrobdi,

rodesac zemoT mogaxseneT istoriul

mexsierebaze. amitomac vfiqrob,

rom namdvilad arsebobs Sesa-

Zlebloba, ufro meti sinaTle

SevitanoT am sakiTxSi. istoria

aris mecniereba, romlis interpretacia

xdeba droSi, Tumca es

srulebiTac ar niSnavs, rom mis

koniunqturas emsaxureba... Cven

bevri ram unda davZlioT, unda

viswavloT Sroma, drois ganawilebis

principi.

_ 2020 weli daiwyo. qarTuli

politikuri speqtris erTi nawili

miiCnevs, rom es iqneba umniSvnelovanesi

weli qarTuli sax-

elmwifosTvis. calkeuli pirebis

Sefasebebs Tu movismenT, erTgvari

deJavius mdgomareobaa, rad-

gan aseTive Sefasebebi iyo 1990

wels, 1995 wels, 2003 wels da

TviT 2012 welsac ki. Tqven ra

Sefaseba gaqvT am mxriv da rogo-

ria molodinebi?

_ mec vfiqrob, gardatexis weli

unda iyos, Tumca, rogorc Tqven

aRniSnavT, mec ase meCveneba, rom

SesaZlebelia, igive miviRoT, rac

Tqven mier dasaxelebul e. w. gardatexis

wlebSi moxda. Cven ar gvaqvs

gansazRvruli amocana, ra gvinda

qveynisTvis, ufro zustad, arc

arsebuli mdgomareoba gvaqvs Sefasebuli

Sesabamisad. ase brZola,

rodesac yvela irazmeba erTis winaaRmdeg,

anu erTaderTis winaaRmdeg,

konkretuli momentis samuSao

gegmad misaRebia. magram is erTaderTi

imdenad aris mniSvnelovani,

ramdenadac mas aqvs mTavari monis

roli. frCxilebi rom gavxsnaT,

vfiqrob, Cveni brZola rusuli imperiuli

Zalebis winaaRmdeg unda

iyos mimarTuli da ara erTi konkretuli

rusi bolSevizoidis Tu

oligarqis winaaRmdeg. unda vTqvaT,

rom arc filipe maxaraZe, arc

sergo orjonikiZe, arc kandid

Carkviani, arc eduard SevardnaZe

yofilan diqtatorebi, isini, ubralod,

rusuli imperiis daqiravebuli

monebi iyvnen, romlebic piradi

keTildReobisTvis yvelaferze

iyvnen wamsvlelebi. imaTTvis,

visTvisac gadamwyveti aris titulebi

da stomaqi, _ samSoblo,

qveyana, saxelmwifo, kanoni, samar-

Tali mxolod faratina sityvebia.

sworedac erT-erTi amaTgania bi-

Zina ivaniSvili da Tan, saubedurod,

ufro mdabio, yvela zemoT dasaxelebulTa

Soris, radganac mas

politikuri terminebiTac apelireba

ar SeuZlia da arc arasodes

yofila arc erT politikur Sekrebazec

ki, sanam xelisuflebaSi

movidoda da amdenad zemoT dasaxelebul

monebTan SedarebiTac ki

ufro rTul arsebasTan gvaqvs

saqme. is, ubralod, mejRanuaSvilis

tipis moazrovnea, romelmac

mxolod erTi sityva icis: yidva, _

albaT, sxvadasxva uRlebaSi.

_ magram politika ar aris mxolod

xelisufleba da cvlile-

bebi demokratiul samyaroSi

xSirad ukavSirdeba opozicias,

romlis amocanac xelisuflebaSi

mosvlaa...

_ axla meore mxare, opozicia...

aq Cven ar gvqonia da arc gvaqvs

opoziciuri moZraobis kultura.

Cems mowonebas mniSvnelovnad „nacionaluri

moZraoba” imdenad imsaxurebs,

ramdenadac es aris

pirveli im politikur partiaTagan,

romelmac SeZlo arseboba xelisuflebis

dakargvis Semdeg da

moRvaweoba, rogorc opoziciam. es

kargi niSania Cveni politikuri

ganviTarebisTvis, miuxedavad imisa,

rom CvenSi arsebuli Raribi

politikuri kulturis gamo xSirad

e. w. eqspertebisgan da Jurnalistebisgan

gvesmis, rom mmarTvelobaSi

am Zalis mobrunebas SeiZleba

ewodos revanSi. arada, rogor

fiqrobT, ganviTarebul dasavlur

qveynebSi ra xdeba?.. xom brundeba

is politikuri Zala xelisuflebaSi,

romelsac erTi periodi uari

uTxra amomrCevlma da uari uTxra

imitom, rom ar iyo kmayofili misi

politikiT. aq isev muSaobs e. w.

bolSevikuri „wminda Tu umwikvlo

partiis efeqti”. am dros xelisuflebaSi

isev is „umwikvlo bolSevikebi”

metyveleben.

_ es sxva polemikis Temaa, Tumca

opoziciuri partia dasavleT-

Si xelisuflebaSi brundeba gada-

àr unda Seneldes qarTveli adamianis

mexsierebaSi afxazeTi da samaCablo...~

xalisebuli saxeebiT da axali

programiT, axali ideebiT. ara

mxolod imiT, rom „me” kargi

viyavi da „eseni” cudebi arian an

me amaTze ukeTesi viyavi... magram

amaze msjeloba axla Sors

wagviyvns da arc aris am inter-

vius mizani. is mainteresebs, ram-

denad xelovnuria politikuri

orpolusianoba, anu orad gayofili

politikuri speqtris da-

pirispireba?

_ ras niSnavs or banakad gayofili

da or RerZs Soris dapirispireba?

es miuRebelia... ise, rogor

fiqrobT, usufaSvili, meuRliTurT,

ar aris nawili „qarTuli

ocnebisa”? da ratom aris „nacionaluri

moZraobis” „damnaSave re-

Jimis” wevri nika melia? an Tundac

„nacionalebidan” wasuli ugulavabokeria

isev „nacionalebi” da qocebidan

wasuli beselia, WiWinaZe,

levan gogiCaiSvili, levan koberiZe

mesame Zala? an saidan gaxda

axal damoukidebel Zalad xazaraZe

da „qarTuli ocnebis” prezidentis

aparatis TanamSromlebi?..

es yvelaferi masmediis „monapovaria”.

erT-erTi sisuste isic aris,

rom politikuri dRis wesrigis SeqmnaSi

ufro miSvnelovan rols

masmedia asrulebs, xSirad dRis

wesrigsac qmnis. es miuTiTebs

politikuri Zalebis sisusteze.

_ geTanxmebiT. gansakuTrebiT

sustebi ki ara, umweoebi arian

politikosebi, rodesac brZnuli

saxeebiT akeTeben komentarebs

iseT sakiTxebze, romelzedac

arasodes ufiqriaT... iciT, ra

mainteresebs? _ politikuri

Zalebi amboben, rom bevri partia

parlamentSi da zedmetad Wreli

politikuri speqtri kargia

demokratiisTvis. Tqven ras

fiqrobT?

_ gansakuTrebiT mZimed meCveneba

is, rom iseve, rogorc SevardnaZem

1992 wels, parlamentSi Seiyvana

yvela politikuri Zala, misi

mTavari amocana iyo gamsaxurdias

erovnuli xelisuflebisadmi dapirispirebis

Seqmna. aseve moxda

2003 wels, rodesac mixeil saakaSvilma

gaaerTiana Tavisi politikuri

qudis qveS opoziciuri

Zalebi da 2012-Sic ase xdeboda.

ufro mZime is iyo, rac SualedSi

xdeboda, TiToeuli Sekrebili

politikuri Zala kerZo partiuli

miznebiT aRWurvili ibrZoda decentralizebisken.

axla Tu gadavxedavT

am politikur partiebs,

ufro sworad, figurebs, igive adamianebi

arian, romlebic xelisuflebaSi

mosvlis Tu parlamentSi

moxvedris mizniT erTiandeboda

Zlieri politikuri figuris qolgis

qveS. axla Cven SeiZleba biZinas

reJimis dasamarcxeblad gaverTiandeT,

magram Semdeg parlamentis

arCevnebis dros unda iyos meti

principuli da ideologiuri er-

Toba...

ufro unda gafarTovdes politikuri

speqtric da gansakuTrebiT

axali saxeebic gamoCndnen. ar

vfiqrob, rom es axali saxeebi maincdamainc

ucnobi adamianebi an

mxolod axalgazrdebi unda iyvnen,

axali SeiZleba iyos kargad daviwyebuli

Zvelic. minda, Zalian minda,

rom 2020 warmatebis weli iyos

Cveni qveynisTvis da didi imedic

maqvs. am imedis CasaxvaSi mniSvnelovani

iyo 2019 weli.

_ didi madloba saintereso

saubrisTvis.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

17

Tengiz abloTia

afxazeTSi morigi revolucia moxda, rac TavisTavad ar

aris kargi movlena _ revolucia kargia ramdenime aTwleul-

Si erTxel, magram rodesac is xdeba rutina da xelisuflebis

Secvlis erTaderTi, normaluri saSualeba _ es niSnavs, rom

qveyanas seriozuli problemebi aqvs.


koT afxazeTze, rogorc saxelmwifoze.

bolos da bolos, romeli

qveyana SeiZleba CaiTvalos ufro

metad saxelmwifod _ saer-

TaSorisod aRiarebuli avRane-

Ti, Tu taivani _ mowesrigebuli

superqveyana, romlis damoukideblobasac

aravin cnobs

aTwleulebis manZilze? kiTxva,

albaT, ritorikulia. nuTu,

vinme ityvis, rom avRaneTi?

maS, ras gveubneba afxazuri

saxelmwifoebriobis Sesaxeb is

faqti, rom ai, ukve meored, xelisufleba

soxumSi revoluciuri

gziT icvleba?

erTi mxriv, ra Tqma unda, es

kargia. magaliTad is, rom verc

erTi afxazi lideri, putinis

xeldasxmulic ki, ver grZnobs

Tavs imperatorad, romlis Zalauflebis

sakiTxic RmerTebis

doneze wydeba. kargia isic,

rom Zalovnebi ver uTxrian

Tvalebs protestis gamosaxatavad

quCaSi gamosul moqalaqeebs.

kargia, rom mobezrebul

liders ver Svelis veraferi _

verc fuli, verc administraciuli

resursi, verc Zala,

verc putinTan megobroba, verc

5 kilo kartofilic ki. afxazebi

yovelTvis mzad arian, gauSvan

saxlSi politikosi, romelsac

realobis adekvaturi aRqmis

unari Ralatobs.

Tumca amiT afxazuri revoluciis

dadebiTi mxare iwureba,

danarCeni _ uaryofiTia.

Tavad is faqti, rom aseul

SeuiaraRebel adamians SeuZlia

saxelmwifos moryeva ramdenime

saaTSi _ mTeli Tavisi aparatiT,

mTavrobiT, saministroebiT,

Zalovani struqturebiT _

imas niSnavs, rom araviTari saxelmwifo

realurad ar arsebobs.

Tanac ara mxolod saer-

TaSoriso, aramed yvelaze dabal

donezec ki.

kargia, rom Tvalebs ar

Txrian, Tumca saxelmwifo,

romelic ver exeba prezidentis

administraciaSi Sevardnil adamianebs,

xval aseve ver Seexeba

kriminalsa da yaCaRs, ver miuCens

Tavis adgils kriminalur

avtoritets, ver daSlis brbos,

romelic gamovida quCaSi damnaSave-naTesavis

ganTavisuflebis

moTxovniT.

susti saxelmwifo ver daiWers

maRalCinosnebisa da cnobili

ojaxebis Svilebs, ver ai-

Zulebs yvela savaWro obieqts

qviTrebis gamoweras, ver Sea-

Sinebs bizness imdenad, rom yvelam

gadaixados gadasaxadebi.

manam, sanam afxazuri sajaro

struqturebi ar iqneba mzad

mkacri da arapopularuli zomebis

misaRebad, maT Soris, Zalismieris,

arc erT gadatrialebas

Tu revolucias ar moyveba

araviTari dadebiT Sedegebi.

bevrs saubroben, rom afxazeTSi

TiTqmis yvelafers ruseTi

akontrolebs da asec aris,

Tumca gasaTvaliswinebelia,

rom araRiarebul respublika-

afxazuri revolucia _ sisustis niSani

am SemTxvevaSi ar visaubroT

saerTaSoriso statusze, araRiarebaze,

imaze, rom araviTari

afxazeTis saxelmwifo ar arsebobs,

imaze, rom iq yvelafers

wyvets ruseTi da a. S.

faqti isaa, rom arsebobs

saxelmwifoebriobis ori ganzomileba

_ erTia saerTaSoriso

legitimacia, meore ki _ realuri

cxovreba. sul araa aucilebeli,

gaeroSi ijde imisTvis,

rom infrastruqtura gamarTo

da wesrigi daamyaro sakuTar

teritoriaze.

saxelmwifoebriobis xarisxis

gansasazRvrad saerTaSoriso

aRiarebaze aranaklebi mni-

Svneloba aqvs, ra siswrafiT

xdeba wyalgayvanilobis dazianebuli

milis SekeTeba _ am

mxriv Cven SegviZlia vilapara-

18

`manam, sanam afxazuri sajaro struqturebi ar

iqneba mzad mkacri da arapopularuli

zomebis misaRebad, maT Soris, Zalismieris,

arc erT gadatrialebas Tu revolucias ar

moyveba araviTari dadebiT Sedegebi.

bevrs saubroben, rom afxazeTSi TiTqmis

yvelafers ruseTi akontrolebs da asec aris,

Tumca gasaTvaliswinebelia, rom araRiarebul

respublikaSi TamaSis wesebi gacilebiT ufro

mouwesrigebeli da qaosuria~

Si TamaSis wesebi gacilebiT

ufro mouwesrigebeli da qaosuria.

ruseTi, asea Tu ise, saxelmwifoa,

sadac ase Tu ise, muSaobs

moqmedi saxelmwifo manqana,

ase Tu ise, moqmedebs kanoni,

biznesi ixdis gadasaxads da

aSkara danaSaulis gamo adamianebi

cixeSi midian.

ruseTSi arsebobs mkveTri

da gasagebi TamaSis wesebi, romelsac

met-naklebad yvela

icavs da organizebuli kriminalic

ki cdilobs, garegnulad

ar gascdes kanonis farglebs.

afxazeTSi ki sruli qaosia,

daaxloebiT iseTi, rogoric

iyo 2000-iani wlebis dasawyis-

Si saqarTveloSi _ ar moqmedebs

araviTari kanonebi, araviTari

saxelmwifoebrivi centralizacia,

Tundac im doneze,

rac aris ruseTis CrdiloeT

kavkasiis respublikebSi.

am realobis Sesacvlelad

araa sakmarisi erTi politikosis

gaSveba da meoris mosvla _

18 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

dRes afxazeTis ganviTarebis

mTavari mowinaamRdege arc

ruseTi da arc saqarTveloa,

dRes afxazeTs aferxebs „WeSmariti

afxazoba”, iseve rogorc

saqarTvelos _ „WeSmariti

qarTveloba”.

tradiciuli afxazuri mentaliteti

SeuTavsebelia yovelgvar

progresTan da winsvlasTan

_ es aris patara, Camor-

Cenili, sofluri eris TviTSegneba

_ zustad iseve, rogorc

„WeSmariti qarTveloba”.

Tumca, am mxriv, afxazeTSi

gacilebiT ufro didi problemebia,

vidre _ saqarTveloSi,

sadac mosaxleobis umravlesobam,

gansakuTrebiT axalgazrdobaSi,

aRiara „mamapapuri qar-

Tvelobis” usargebloba da arakonkurentunarianoba

Tanamedrove

samyaroSi.

Tu saqarTvelos aqvs raime

miRwevebi, is uklebliv yvela

dakavSirebulia swored am Zveli

mentalitetis did nawilze

uaris TqmasTan.

afxazuri sazogadoeba ki

amisTvis mzad araa. afxazuri

tradiciebi, „afsuara” _ dRemde

iTvleba erovnuli TviTSegnebis

ZiriTad safuZvlad. „afsuaras”

siswore arasdros da

arsad ar dgas eWvis qveS, amaze

saubaric ki ar aris.

afxazebi bevrs laparakoben

cud politikosebze, uvargis

politikur elitaze, magram

arasdros _ „WeSmarit afxazobaze”,

romelic, realurad,

am yvelafris safuZvelia.

swored amitom revoluciebi

midi-modis, saxelisuflebo

klanebi icvleba, Tumca realuri

viTareba uaresdeba da uaresdeba

_ da es gagrZeldeba

manam, sanam afxazebi ar aRiareben,

rom problemebis Tavi da

Tavi swored dromoWmuli „WeSmariti

afxazobaa”.

jerjerobiT am aRiarebis

kvali arc ki Cans, Sesabamisad

_ revoluciebi kidev iqneba.

Tamar rostiaSvili

577 10 07 06

2019 wlis pirvel ianvars amoqmedda

e. w. axali sagranto programa „awarmoe ukeTesi momav-

lisTvis”, romlis ganmxorcielebeli unda yofiliyo

ekonomikisa da mdgradi ganviTarebis saministros saagento

„awarmoe saqarTveloSi”. zemoxsenebuli programa saqarTve-

los mTavrobis iniciativis, „nabiji ukeTesi momavlisken”,

xelSewyobis mizniT SemuSavda da gamyofi xazebis gaswvriv

vaWrobis waxalisebas iTvaliswinebda. xsenebul iniciativas

xeli unda Seewyo savaWro urTierTobebis imgvarad waxalise-

bisTvis, rom SesaZlebeli gamxdariyo gamyofi xazebis gaswvriv

ekonomikuri urTierTobebis gafarToeba, axali SesaZle-

blobebis ganviTareba da rogorc Sida, ise sagareo bazrebze

wvdoma. aseve saqarTvelos okupirebul regionebSi _ afxaze-

Tis avtonomiur respublikasa da cxinvalis regionSi (yofili

samxreT oseTis avtonomiur olqSi) mcxovrebi mosaxleobisTvis

ekonomikuri sargeblis miRebis axali gzebi da Sesa-

Zleblobebi ufro perspeqtiuli, alternatiuli bazrebi.

es iniciativa, ra Tqma unda,

yvela doneze iyo SeTanxmebuli,

kerZod, saqarTvelos parlamentma

mxari dauWira 2018 wlis 6 ivniss.

axla kidev erTxel CamovTvaloT,

ra unda ganxorcielebuliyo

aRniSnuli grantis farglebSi:

gamyofi xazebis (afxazeTis avtonomiur

respublika, cxinvalis

regioni (yofili samxreT oseTis

qti gamoikveTa: 7000 laramde erT

beneficiarze, romelsac unda

ecxovra saqarTvelos okupirebul

teritoriaze; 15 000 laramde

beneficiarTa jgufs, romelic

unda Semdgariyo ori beneficiarisgan,

maT Soris, erT beneficiars

unda ecxovra (an saqmianoba

hqonoda) saqarTvelos okupirebul

teritoriaze; 20 000

laramde beneficiarTa jgufs,

avtonomiuri olqis teritoriebi)

gaswvriv vaWrobisa da masTan

dakavSirebuli ekonomikuri saqmianobis

xelSewyoba, agreTve, TanamSromlobisa

da ndobis mSeneblobisTvis

safuZvlis Seqmnis

mizniT inicirebuli yvela idea.

axal programas unda uzrunveleyo

gamyofi xazebis orive mxares

mcxovrebi mosaxleobis er-

Toblivi warmoebisa da partnioruli

proeqtebis mxardaWera.

programis beneficiarebi unda

yofiliyvnen afxazeTis avtonomiur

respublikaSi an cxinvalis regionSi

(yofili samxreT oseTis

avtonomiuri olqis teritoriebze)

legitimurad mcxovrebi 18

wels miRweuli fizikuri pirebi,

aseve saqarTvelos kanonmdeblobis

Sesabamisad registrirebuli

mewarme subieqtebi, romlebic

saqmianobas legitimurad axorcieleben

afxazeTis avtonomiur

respublikaSi an cxinvalis regionSi

(yofili samxreT oseTis avtonomiuri

olqis teritoriebze),

agreTve 18 wels miRweuli saqar-

Tvelos moqalaqe fizikuri piri

da saqarTvelos kanonmdeblobis

Sesabamisad registrirebuli mewarme

subieqtebi, romlebic saqmianobas

axorcieleben saqarTvelos

kontrolirebad teritoriaze.

dafinansebis odenobas rac Seexeboda,

aq metad saintereso punromelic

Sedgeba sami beneficiarisgan,

maT Soris, minimum, erT

beneficiars unda ecxovra

saqarTvelos mier kontrolirebad

teritoriaze; 35 000 laramde

beneficiarTa jgufze, romelic

unda Semdgariyo oTxi an meti beneficiarisgan,

maT Soris, minimum,

erT beneficiars mainc unda ecxovra

saqarTvelos mier kontrolirebad

teritoriaze.

SerCevis pirvel etapze programaSi

monawileobis msurvel

pirebs unda SeevsoT da daeregistrirebinaT

eleqtronuli biznesgegma.

ganacxadi Sedgeboda

rogorc aucilebeli Sesavsebi

velebisgan, ise Tavisufali teqstis

fanjrisgan. SerCevis meore

etapze unda ganxorcielebuliyo

biznesgegmebis Sefaseba da gamovleniliyvnen

gamarjvebulebi.

rogorc sagranto pirobebSi

ewera, beneficiarTa dafinanseba

ganxorcieldeboda warmodgenili

proeqtiT, igive biznesgegmiT,

romlis Semdegac gaTvaliswinebuli

iyo saqmianobis ganxorcielebisTvis

saWiro ZiriTadi

(aRWurvilobisa Tu manqana-danadgarebis)

da sabrunavi saSualebebis

SeZena, sakonkurso komisiis

mier dadgenili wesiT.

sagranto moTxovnis mixedviT,

gamarjvebulebi, kerZod, 10 gamarjvebuli

15 ivliss unda gamoecxadebinaT.

erTi weli gavida da

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


rogor moatyua

saqarTvelos

mTavrobam

okupirebul

teritoriaze

mcxovrebi

qarTvelebi?

sagranto programa, romelic parlamentma

daamtkica da romelzedac

konkretuli biujeti iyo

gamoyofili, faqtobrivad, Cavarda.

yovel SemTxvevaSi, „qronika+~is

xelT arsebuli informacviiT,

300-ze meti sagranto ganacxadidan

arc erTi ar dakmayofilebula.

aqve gTavazobT ss „awarmoe

saqarTvelos” mier gacemul pasuxebs

im kiTxvebze, romelic Cveni

gamoZiebis bolo etapze maT

srul absurdulobas daadasturebs:

_ dafinansebis SemTxvevaSi

rogor gadava SeZenili saSuale-

bebi administraciul sazRvarze?

_ piri Tavad uzrunvelyofs

SeZenili saSualebebis administraciul

sazRvarze gadatanas,

aseve komisia ganixilavs calkeul

SemTxvevebSi daxmarebis SesaZleblobebs.

_ sad unda realizdes miRe-

buli produqcia?

_ mxolod okupirebul teritoriaze

warmoebuli produqciis

realizaciaa SesaZlebelia

saqarTvelos kontrolirebad

teritoriaze, aseve SesaZlebelia

saqarTvelos kanonmdeblobis Sesabamisad

misi eqsporti.

_ gamyof xazze produqciis an

nedleulis gadatanis dros uw-

evT garkveuli Tanxis, reJimis

mier dawesebuli „oficialuri”

gadasaxadis gadaxda. SesaZlebelia,

Tu ara aRniSnuli „gadasax-

adis” grantis TanxiT gadaxda?

_ grantis TanxiT aRniSnuli

xarjis dafinanseba akrZalulia.

_ okupirebul teritoriaze

Sesvla problemuria, rogor

unda moxerxdes iq warmoeba?

_ beneficiari unda iyos okupirebul

teritoriaze legitimurad

mcxovrebi piri, romelsac

aqvs aRniSnul teritoriaze cxovrebisa

da saqmianobis SesaZlebloba.

_ konkretulad ra dokumentebi

unda warmoadginos okupire-

bul teritoriaze mcxovrebma

fizikurma pirma?

_ fizikurma pirma unda

warmoadginos saqarTvelos moqalaqeobis

damadasturebeli dokumenti

an neitraluri dokumenti

an registrirebuli unda iyos,

rogorc okupirebul teritoriaze

legitimurad mcxovrebi piri

da miniWebuli unda hqondes piradi

nomeri.

_ ramdenad SesaZlebelia war-

moebisTvis saWiro danadgaris

importiT SeZena?

_ grantis TanxiT danadgaris

importiT SeZena SesaZlebelia mxolod

im SemTxvevaSi, Tu danadgaris

ganbaJeba ganxorcieldeba

saqarTvelos kontrolirebad

teritoriaze, qveyanaSi moqmedi

kanonmdeblobis Sesabamisad.

_ rogor ganxorcieldeba war-

moebis procesis monitoringi da

vin ganaxorcielebs mas?

_ procesis monitorings saer-

TaSoriso organizaciebi ganaxorcieleben.

_ savaldebuloa Tu ara okupirebul

teritoriaze mcxovrebi

pirisTvis saqarTvelos kontrolirebad

teritoriaze gadmosvla

amxanagobis registraci-

is dros?

_ savaldebuloa amxanagobis

yvela wevris registracia, winaaRmdeg

SemTxvevaSi, amxanagoba daregistrirebulad

ver CaiTvleba.

_ igegmeba Tu ara treningi

aRniSnuli programis fargleb-

Si?

_ programis farglebSi treningi

dagegmili ar aris, Tumca

survilis SemTxvevaSi, SesaZlebelia.

_ grantis TanxiT SesaZlebelia

arsebuli warmoebis gafar-

Toeba, Tu SesaZlebelia starta-

pis dafinansebac?

_ programis farglebSi Sesa-

Zlebelia, rogorc arsebuli, aseve

startapbiznesis dafinanseba.

_ ramden xanSia SesaZlebeli

warmoebuli produqciis real-

izacia _ magaliTad, saqonlis an

frinvelis SemTxvevaSi, produ-

qciis gayidva?

_ programis beneficiari valdebulia,

profili SeinarCunos

grantis miRebidan momdevno 12

Tvis ganmavlobaSi. produqciis

realizaciis vadebi programiT

gansazRvruli ar aris da damokidebulia

warmoebis periodsa da

xarisxze.

_ dafinansebis Tanxis ramdeni

procenti unda gaixarjos Ziri-

Tad da ramdeni procenti sa-

brunav saSualebebze?

_ grantis Tanxidan 80% Ziri-

Tadi saSualebebisTvis, 20% ki sabrunavi

saSualebebisTvis unda

gaixarjos.

_ SesaZlebelia Tu ara sa-

transporto saSualebis SeZena?

_ satransporto saSualebebis

SeZena akrZalulia (jer sad xarT!

„qronika+~).

_ SesaZlebelia Tu ara gran-

tis TanxiT traqtoris SeZena?

_ diax, grantis TanxiT Sesa-

Zlebelia agraruli teqnikis, maT

Soris, traqtorisa da motoblokis

SeZena.

_ biznesideis ganxorcielebis

procesSi saWiroa Tu ara beneficiaris

finansuri Tanamonawile-

oba?

_ aRniSnuli programiT beneficiaris

Tanamonawileoba ar

moiTxoveba.

_ grantis mopovebisa da warmoebis

ganxorcielebis SemTxvevaSi,

savaldebuloa, Tu ara da-

finansebis Tanxis dabruneba?

_ miznobriobis Sesrulebis

SemTxvevaSi (beneficiari valdebulia

grantis Tanxa gaxarjos biznesgegmiT

gaTvaliswinebuli

saWiroebebis dasafinanseblad)

Tanxa ar dabrundeba.

„qronika+~ Semdeg nomerSi „awarmoe

ukeTesi momavlisTvis” grantSi

monawile, okupirebuli afxazeTis

teritoriaze mcxovrebi im

pirebis interviuebs dabeWdavs,

romlebic, gamodis, rom Cvenma

mTavrobam moatyua. aseve sad wavida

grantis fuli? ramdeni iyo

sinamdvileSi biujeti da ramdeni

daixarja sainformacio kampaniaze,

romelic „awarmoe saqarTvelos”

farglebSi” Catarda.

19


xodorkovskis strasburguli precedenti,

putinis msgavsad sakuTari

giorgi abaSiZe

xodorkovski „ocnebasac” hyavs,

anu saubaria kompania „svetis” pa-

timrobaSi myof direqtorebze. ufro konkretulad da gasage-

bad rom vTqvaT, axlaxan evrosasamarTlom xodorkovskis

saqmeze morigi gadawyvetileba gamoitana da erT dros ruse-

Tis yvelaze mdidari adamiani udanaSaulod cno, anu xodorkovski

im epizodSi gamarTlda, romlis Tanaxmadac, mas puti-

nis sasamarTlo komerciuli xelSekrulebiT gaTvaliswinebu-

li valdebulebebis Seusruleblobas edaveboda da amis gamo

mis winaaRmdeg sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsiT gaTvaliswinebu-

li ganaCeni gamoitana. mokled, strasburgma daadgina, rom

analogiur saqmeze adamianis cixeSi gaSveba ar SeiZleba.

rac Seexeba saqarTvelos, iuristma

da advokatma valeri gelbaxianma

sakonstitucio sasamarTlos,

jer kidev, gasuli wlis

martSi mimarTa da sisxlis samarTlis

kodeqsis 180-e da 182-e

muxlebis gauqmeba moiTxova, radgan

gelbaxiani miiCnevs, rom es

orive muxli saqarTvelos konstitucias

ewinaaRmdegeba, Tumca

vidre am Temas gavSliT, xodorkovskis

istorias SegaxsenebT:

xodorkovski, Tavis droze,

ruseTis yvelaze mdidari adamiani

iyo, romelic navTobkompania

„iukoss” xelmZRvanelobda da,

pirdapir Tu iribad, politika-

Sic ereoda. swored amis gamo

daewyo problemebi da 2003 wels

TaRliTobisa da gadasaxadebis

damalvis braldebiT daapatimres.

2005 wels moskovis meS-

Canskis raionis sasamarTlom igi

damnaSaved cno da 9-wliani patimroba

miusaja.

2007 wels xodorkovskis axali

braldeba wauyenes, rac fulad

maqinaciebs iTvaliswinebda da

damatebiT 13,5 wliT Tavisuflebis

aRkveTa miusajes.

2013 wels putinma xodorkovski

Seiwyala, Tumca sakuTari uflebebisTvis

brZola am ukanasknelma

evrosasamarTloSi ganagrZo.

rogorc vTqviT, ramdenime

dRis win strasburgma xodorkovski

im epizodSi, romelic komerciuli

xelSekrulebis dar-

Rvevas exeboda, gaamarTla. evrosasamarTlos

es precedentuli

gadawyvetileba ki, rogorc valeri

gelbaxiani ambobs, imis safuZvels

iZleva, rom sakonstitucio

sasamarTlom misi sarCeli

daakmayofilos da saqarTvelos

sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsis

zemoxsenebuli ori muxli antikonstituciurad

cnos.

valeri gelbaxiani, advokati:

_ 2019 wlis martSi developeruli

kompania „svetis” direqtorebi

_ givi jiblaZe da Tornike

janeliZe daiWires.

_ „svetis” direqtorebis dap-

atimrebis sababi ra gaxda?

_ am adamianebma, rogorc sam-

Seneblo kompaniis direqtorebma,

mosaxleobas binaTmSeneblobaze

winare xelSekrulebebi gauformes

da, rogorc wesi, sajaro reestrSic

daaregistrires, rom am

xelSekrulebis safuZvelze mosaxleoba

binebs miiRebda. imisTvis,

rom mSenebloba dawyebuliyo,

„svetma”, xelSekrulebis

safuZvelze, mosaxleobisgan fuladi

Tanxa aiRo. mSenebloba ki

daiwyo, magram vadaSi ver dasrulda.

_ ratom?

_ amis sxvadasxva mizezi arsebobs,

maT Soris, is, rom samSeneblo

kanonmdebloba ramdenjerme

Seicvala, ris gamoc nebarTvis

nawilSi, ase vTqvaT, administraciuli

SeboWva moxda, anu meriebma

„svets” samSeneblo nebarTvebi

ar misces, amitom dawyebuli

mSeneblobebi gaCerda. amasobaSi

vadebi dairRva. mosaxleobam

iCivla.

_ „svetis”, ase vTqvaT, klien-

tebs, mSeneblobis safasuri

gadaxdili hqondaT?

_ diax, zogs mTlianad hqonda

gadaxdili, zogsac _ nawilobriv.

_ es kompania korpusebs Tbi-

lisSi aSenebda?

_ diax, ZiriTadad, TbilisSi,

Tumca erTi korpusi baTumSic

hqonda.

mokled, „svetis” direqtorebi

pasuxisgebaSi sxvisi qonebis

miTvisebis braldebiT misces, anu

sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsis 180-

e muxli TaRliTobaa, 182-e ki _

sxvisi fulis miTviseba. erTi sityviT,

jiblaZe da janeliZe

daakaves da sasamarTlom orives

Svidwliani patimroba Seufarda.

_ „svetis” direqtorebs gamo-

Zieba, saerTo jamSi, ra Tanxas

edaveboda?

_ daaxloebiT, 6 milioni dolaris

ekvivalent lars, Tumca

ar dagaviwydeT, rom samSeneblo

samuSaoebis nawili Sesrulebuli

iyo, anu „svetis” damfuZneblebs

`vinaidan mxareebs Soris samoqalaqo

kanonmdeblobiT gaTvaliswinebuli

xelSekrulebebia gaformebuli da amasTan, es

xelSekrulebebi sajaro reestrSia

daregistrirebuli, amitom yvela es

xelSekruleba kanonieria. aseT SemTxvevaSi,

roca or mxares Soris samoqalaqo dava

warmoiSoba, romelime mxaris sisxlis

samarTlis wesiT devna ar SeiZleba.

Sesabamisad, zemoxsenebuli sarCeliT

sakonstitucio sasamarTlosgan viTxov, rom

sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsis is muxlebi,

romlebic aseTi interpretaciis saSualebas

iZleva, antikonstituciurad iqnes cnobili~

valeri gelbaxiani sakonstitucio

sasamarTlosgan sisxlis

samarTlis kodeqsis 180-e da 182-e

muxlebis gauqmebas iTxovs!

mosaxleobis fuli jibeSi ar Caudevs

_ karkasebi gakeTda. mosaxleobam

imis gamo ki ar iCivla,

rom fuli mopares, aramed imis

gamo, rom mSenebloba gaCerda, magram

amis miuxedavad, prokuraturam

saqme aRZra da „svetis”

orive direqtori pasuxisgebaSi

misca.

sxvaTa Soris, ganaCenis gamotanis

Semdeg sagamoZiebo organosTan

konsultaciebi gagrZelda

da axla saproceso SeTanxmebaze

mimdinareobs saubari.

_ dRis wesrigSi saproceso

SeTanxmeba ratom dadga?

_ valdebuleba sxva kompaniebma

aiRes, anu mSeneblobas isini

daasruleben, magram am SemTxvevaSi

me imis Sesaxeb ar vsaubrob,

samarTlianobis saswori

vis mxarezea.

_ aba, raze saubrobT, batono

valeri?

_ Tavis droze, anu gasul

welsve, sakonstitucio sasamarTloSi

konstituciuri sarCeli

Sevitane da konkretuli sakiTxi

davayene.

_ anu?

_ vinaidan mxareebs Soris samoqalaqo

kanonmdeblobiT gaTvaliswinebuli

xelSekrulebebia

gaformebuli da amasTan, es xelSekrulebebi

sajaro reestrSia

daregistrirebuli, amitom yvela

es xelSekruleba kanonieria. aseT

SemTxvevaSi, roca or mxares

Soris samoqalaqo dava warmoiSoba,

romelime mxaris sisxlis samarTlis

wesiT devna ar SeiZleba.

Sesabamisad, zemoxsenebuli

sarCeliT sakonstitucio sasamarTlosgan

viTxov, rom sisxlis

samarTlis kodeqsis is muxlebi,

romlebic aseTi interpretaciis

saSualebas iZleva, antikonstituciurad

iqnes cnobili.

amasTan, Cems sar-

CelSi adamianTa

evrokonvenciis

meore damatebas

mivuTiTeb, sadac

gasagebad weria,

rom evrosasamarTlo

komerciuli

da saxel-

Sekrulebo davebisas

warmo-

Sobil iseT valdebulebas

ar ixilavs,

romelic gadaxdis

uunaroa.

mokled,

evrokonvenciis

es Canaweri imis samarTlebriv

safuZvels maZlevs, sakonstitucio

sasamarTlos winaSe davayeno

kategoriuli moTxovna, rom

sisxlis samarTlis Sesabamis muxlebSi

normatiuli normebi Sesacvlelia.

kerZod, arc erTi im piris

dapatimreba ar SeiZleba, romelsac

samoqalaqo xelSekrulebiT

gaTvaliswinebuli valdebulebis

Seusruleblobas edavebian.

_ Tqvens sarCelze sakonsti-

tucio sasamarTlos ra reaqcia

hqonda?

_ gasuli wlis martidan, lamis,

erTi weli gadis, magram sakonstitucio

sasamarTloSi Cemi

sarCelis ganxilva jer ar dawyebula,

Tumca, vfiqrob, am saqmis

ganxilva daCqardeba.

_ amis Tqmis safuZvels ra

gaZlevT?

_ xodorkovskis saqmeze evrosasamarTlos

gadawyvetileba

swored am sarCelis analogia.

_ anu?

_ xodorkovskis saqmeze strasburgma

daadgina, Tu valdebulebis

SeusruleblobasTan

dakavSirebiT dava samoqalaqo

xelSekrulebis safuZvelze warmoiSva,

ar SeiZleba, rom piri

sisxlis samarTlis pasuxismgeblobaSi

mieces.

mokled, aqedan gamomdinare,

vimedovneb, rom sakonstitucio

sasamarTlo Cemi sarCelis ganxilvas

daaCqarebs da strasburgis

aseTi mkveTri gadawyvetileba

misTvis saxelmZRvanelo iqneba.

_ batono valeri, saqarTvelos

xelisufleba evrostruq-

turebis rekomendaciebsa Tu

SeniSvnebs, rogorc ityvian, erT

yurSi uSvebs da meoreSi atare-

bs. Sesabamisad, ratom ggoniaT,

rom xodorkovskis saqmeze str-

asburgis gadawyvetileba Cveni

sakonstitucio sasamarTlos-

20

20 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


romelic `svetis~ saqmes Tavdayira ayenebs!

Tvis erTgvari saxelmZRvanelo

iqneba?

_ sakonstitucio sasamarTlo

gansxvavebuli organoa da misi

gadawyvetileba mxolod saqarTveloSi,

ase vTqvaT, ar rCeba, anu

vebgverdze inglisur enazec

qveyndeba da mas mTeli msoflio

kiTxulobs. aqedan gamomdinare,

sakonstitucio sasamarTlo imis

sawinaaRmdegod wasvlas ver gabedavs,

rac evrosasamarTlom daadgina!

mokled, darwmunebuli

var, rom sakonstitucio sasamarTlo

Cems sarCelSi miTiTebul

moTxovnas absoluturad

daakmayofilebs!

_ sxvanairad ar gamigoT da,

optimisturad, mgoni, tyuilad

xarT ganwyobili, miT umetes,

rom sarCeli, lamis, erTi wlis

win SeitaneT, sakonstitucio

sasamarTlos ki ganxilva jerac

ar dauwyia.

_ es vadebis saqmea, anu sakonstitucio

sasamarTloSi sar-

Celebs rigiTobis mixedviT ganixilaven.

Cems sarCels ki rigma jer

ar mouwia, Tumca mas Semdeg, rac

es sarCeli ganixileba, dadgindeba,

rom yvela is saqme, romelic

saqarTveloSi sisxlis samarTlis

180-e da 182-e muxlebiTaa aRZruli,

gadasasinjia! sxvaTa Soris, am

muxlebiT adamianebi arian daWerilebi.

_ ise, xodorkovski, rogorc

maxsovs, putinis SurisZiebis

msxverpli gaxda. aqedan gamom-

dinare, xom ar unda CavTvaloT,

rom „svetis” direqtorebic

politikuri represiebis msxver-

plni arian?

_ xodorkovskis saqmeze evrosasamarTlom

politikuri Wrilis

gareSe, anu imis Taobaze imsjela,

ruseTis sasamarTlo samarTlebrivad

swori iyo Tu ara, rodesac

xodorkovski cixeSi gauSva.

erTi sityviT, strasburgma

Tqva, xodorkovskis devnis samarTlebrivi

safuZveli ar arsebobda

imitom, rom evrokonvenciis

meore SesworebiT, Tu or mxares

xelSekrulebaa gaformebuli

da igi ukanonobis gamo ar

gauqmebula, maSin romelime mxaris

sisxlis samarTlis devna

dauSvebelia da Tu devna mainc

daiwyo, es imas niSnavs, rom devnis

obieqti udanaSauloao.

_ evrosasamarTlos pozicia

gasagebia, magram xodorkovskis

msgavsad, „svetis” direqtorebic

politikuri angariSsworebis

msxverplni xom ar gaxdnen?

_ sasamarTloSi politiuri ki

ara, samarTlebrivi aspeqti ixileba,

Tumca, amis miuxedavad,

sasamarTlos gadawyvetilebas

politikosebi gamoiyenebn da

ityvian, rom xodorkovski politikuri

da ukanono devnis msxverpli

iyo.

_ batono valeri, konkretulad

miTxariT: „svetis” xelmZR-

vanelebs „ocnebasTan” kargi

urTierToba hqondaT?

_ kargi urTierToba rom hqonodaT,

ra Tqma unda, ar daiWerdnen,

magram amas axla mniSvneloba

ar aqvs. xodorkovskis saqmeze evrosasamarTlos

mier gamotanili

gadawyvetilebidan gamomdinare,

imis Sesaxeb vsaubrobT, rac

saqarTveloSi samarTlebrivad

moxdeba.

mokled, Cems konstituciur

sarCels pasuxi sWirdeba da es pasuxi

urayofiTi ver iqneba, rad-

àr dagaviwydeT, rom samSeneblo samuSaoebis nawili Sesrulebuli iyo, anu

`svetis~ damfuZneblebs mosaxleobis fuli jibeSi ar Caudevs - karkasebi

gakeTda. mosaxleobam imis gamo ki ar iCivla, rom fuli mopares, aramed

imis gamo, rom mSenebloba gaCerda, magram amis miuxedavad, prokuraturam

saqme aRZra da `svetis~ orive direqtori pasuxisgebaSi misca~

gan evrosasamarTlom msgavs saqmeze

gadawyvetileba ukve gamoitana.

Sesabamisad, yvela analogiuri

saqme gadasinjvas daeqvemdebareba.

_ e. i., „centr pointis” saqmec

gadaixedeba?

_ diax, yvela msgavsi saqme gadaixedeba

da Tu vinme ityvis, rom

es politikuri devna iyo, diax,

ase iqneba da aseve samarTlebriv

nawilSic gamarTldeba.

_ batono valeri, sisxlis samarTlis

180-e da 182-e muxleb-

iT, rogorc vici, saqarTveloSi

bevri adamiania gasamarTlebuli,

Tumca Tqven garda sakonsti-

tucio sasamarTlosTvis sxva

advokatebs ar miumarTavT. amas

riT xsniT?

_ aba, sxvis magivrad ra giTxraT?

konkretul sasamarTlo ganxilvaSi

vmonawileobdi da rogorc

ki am saqmeSi CaverTe, ganvacxade,

_ vinaidan saerTo sasamarTloebi

samarTlebrivad swor

poziciaze ar dganan, sarCels sakonstitucio

sasamarTloSi Sevitan-meTqi.

mokled, sakonstitucioSi sarCeli

Sevitane da amiT, rogorc

iuristma da advokatma, mxolod

moqalaqeobrivi ki ara, samarTlebrivi

valic movixade. strasburgis

sasamarTlom ki Cemi samarTlebrivi

pozicia daadastura!

_ ise, analogiur saqmeebze

saerTo sasamarTloebs mkacri

sasjeli ratom gamoaqvT xolme?

_ saerTo sasamarTloebi

prokuraturas eqvemdebarebian,

anu rasac prokuratura Seitans,

imas arCeven. am SemTxvevaSi, saqme

prokuraturam Seitana, romelic

sasamarTlom ganixila da daadgina,

rom prokuraturis brali

swori iyo da am adamianebs cixe

miusaja. me ki vambob, rom swori

arc prokuratura iyo da arc _

sasamarTlo. strasburgis gadawyvetilebis

Semdeg ki yvela sasa-

`sakonstitucio sasamarTloSi sarCelebs

rigiTobis mixedviT ganixilaven. Cems sarCels

ki rigma jer ar mouwia, Tumca mas Semdeg, rac

es sarCeli ganixileba, dadgindeba, rom yvela

is saqme, romelic saqarTveloSi sisxlis

samarTlis 180-e da 182-e muxlebiTaa aRZruli,

gadasasinjia! sxvaTa Soris, am muxlebiT

adamianebi arian daWerilebi~

marTlo iZulebuli gaxdeba, sakuTari

ganaCenebi gadasinjos!

_ roca „svetis” direqtorebs

brali warudgines, mTavari

prokurori SoTaZe iyo?

_ ara, ara.

_ raxan sityvam moitana,

Tqven, rogorc advokati, mTavar

prokurorad SoTaZis SesaZlo

meored mosvlaze ras fiqrobT?

_ Cven rac unda vTqvaT, Tu

ivaniSvilma gadawyvita, Zalaufleba

mis xelSia da SoTaZe mTavari

prokurori meored aucileblad

gaxdeba.

simarTle rom giTxraT, me,

rogorc advokats, SoTaZesTan

komunikacia mqonia da is sakiTxebi,

romlebic davuyene, CaTvala,

rom samarTliani iyo da gaiTvaliswina,

anu piradad me masze Zviri

namdvilad ar meTqmis da morali

da sindisi imis saSualebas

ar momcems, masze cudi vTqva,

Tumca Tavad procesi, rom am Tanamdebobaze

sxva kandidatura

ver moiZebna, ivaniSvilis garemocvaSi

arsebul sakadro krizisze

metyvelebs. sxvaTa Soris, SoTaZe

mTavari prokurorobidan, Tavis

droze, ki ar gaaTavisufles,

aramed, gadadga.

_ diax, magram gadadgoma skan-

dalis fonze mouwia.

_ gadadgoma politikoss ukan

dabrunebis Sanss aZlevs. ai, gan-

Tavisuflebis SemTxvevaSi ki So-

TaZes dabrunebis Sansi aRar eqneboda.

_ SeiZleba, magram mTeli „ocneba”

SoTaZes Rirseuls uwodebs

da es gadaWarbebuli Sefase-

ba araa?

_ sxva advokatebi, magaliTad,

zaza xatiaSvili, mas Zalian akritikebda,

razedac vuTxari, _ yvela

sakiTxi, romelic SoTaZis winaSe

davayene, gadaamowma-meTqi. ai, magaliTad,

„gviCianis saqme”, romelic

Sesabamisad ar gaxmaurda.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ saqarTvelos sasamarTlo

praqtikaSi „gviCianis saqme” erTerTi

yvelaze sainteresoa _ adamians

sxvadasxva dros samudamo

patimroba oTxjer miusajes, mere

es sasjeli 15-wliani patimrobiT

Seucvales, anu yvela instanciis

mier mkvlelad iyo miCneuli da

sasjels aTi weli ixdida. sinamdvileSi

ki udanaSaulo iyo da

cixeSi ijda.

SoTaZes am saqmeze axali sasamarTlo-samedicino

kvleva mivutane,

romelsac Suamdgomlobac

axlda, Tu ratom iyo gviCiani

udanaSaulo. miTxra, damitoveo.

sxvaTa Soris, am saqmeSi SoTaZe,

Tavis droze, monawileobda _ sasamarTloSi

saproceso prokurorad

gamodioda. mokled, meore

dRes SoTaZem damireka da miTxra,

_ unda SevxvdeTo.

_ SexvdiT?

_ diax, SevxvdiT da miTxra, Tu

yvelaferi, rac aq weria, sworia,

maSin Cemive iniciativiT moviTxov,

rom es adamiani udanaSaulod

iqnes cnobilio.

erTi sityviT, xelaxali kompleqsuri

eqspertiza daniSna da

xelaxali gamoZieba daiwyo. sabolood,

im daskvnamde mivida,

rom gviCiani udanaSaulo iyo da

saapelacio sasamarTloSi Suamdgomloba

Seitana, rom is sasjeli,

romelic misjili hqonda,

gauqmebuliyo da adamiani udana-

Saulod ecnoT. saapelacio sasamarTlom

SoTaZis Suamdgomloba

ganixila da gviCiani udanaSaulod

cno! sxvaTa Soris, TiTqmis

arasodes momxdara, rom prokurors

sakuTari brali Seecvala!

_ es faqti SoTaZis sasargeblod

metyvelebs, magram, batono

valeri, weRan TqviT, xelisuflebas

sakonstitucio sasa-

marTloze gavlena ar aqvso. amas

riT xsniT?

_ gavlena ki aqvs, magram iseTi

ara, rom sakonstitucio sasamarTlom

TeTrze Tqvas, Saviao,

Tumca sakonstitucio sasamarTlos

SeuZlia, sarCeli ar miiRos,

an Tqvas, analogiuri saqme ganxilulia

da xelmeored ar davubrundebio,

magram evrosasamarTlos

gaxmaurebuli gadawyvetilebis

uaryofas ver moaxdens.

_ vTqvaT, ise moxda, rom sa-

konstitucio

sasamarTlom,

strasburgis gadawyvetilebis

miuxedavad, Tqveni sarCeli ar

daakmayofila. evrosasamarTlo-

Si waxvalT?

_ Tu Cemi klientebi moisurveben,

ra Tqma unda, wavalT, magram

Tu saproceso SeTanxmeba

gaformdeba, mere gasaCivreba

aRar SeiZleba. ise, sakonstitucio

sasamarTlo sxva sasamarTloa

da sasjelis samarTlianobas

ki ara, imas ixilavs, sisxlis samarTlis

kodeqsis esa Tu is muxli

saqarTvelos konstituciasa

da saerTaSoriso samarTlis

aqtebs Seesabameba Tu ara.

_ im SemTxvevaSi, Tu sakonstitucio

sasamarTlom Tqveni sar-

Celi daakmayofila, „svetis”

direqtorebi, rogorc udanaSaulod

gasamarTlebulebi, saxelm-

wifosgan kompensacias miiReben?

_ bunebrivia.

_ batono valeri, xodork-

ovskis saqmeze evrosasamarTlom

gadawyvetileba rodis gam-

oitana?

_ ramdenime dRis win.

_ anu es imas niSnavs, rom xo-

dorkovski cixeSi ukanonod

ijda?

_ diax, am gadawyvetilebiT

xodorkovski udanaSaulod miiCnies.

_ e. i., putins misTvis ko-

mpensaciis gadaxda mouwevs, ara?

_ diax, evrosasamarTlo kompensacias

gansazRvravda da, rogorc

vici, ramdenime milionzea

saubari.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

21

nene injgia

591 71 39 98


„saqarTvelos fosta” SesaZloa, seriozuli saerTaSoriso

skandalis winaSe aRmoCndes, ufro konkretulad kretulad ki saqme exeba

„fostis Sesaxeb~ kanonproeqts, romlis iniciatori ekonomikisa

da mdgradi ganviTarebis saministroa. kanonproeqti iTval-

iswinebs, rom Tu universaluri momsaxurebis gaweva finansurad

saqarTvelos fostam ver SeZlo, es unda dakompensirdes safos-

to sferoSi moRvawe sxva kompaniebidan, rogoricaa, DHL, TNT,

FEDEX da UPS. . aRsaniSnavia, rom msgavsi praqtika evropis mas-

StabiT ar arsebobs. am kanonis miRebis SemTxvevaSi iseTi ko-

mpaniebi, rogoricaa DHL, FEDEX da UPS cxadia, am pirobebs ar

dasTanxmdebian da bazars datoveben, rasac saerTaSoriso skandali

moyveba. msoflioSi cnobili brendebis mier qveynis datoveba

ki swored imis signalia, rom konkretul qveyanaSi in-

vestorebisTvis sasurveli garemo ar aris.

`saqarTvelos fosta~

aRsaniSnavia, rom msgavsi Sem-

Txveva moxda TurqmeneTSi, rasac

Zalian didi skandali moyva, _

„Turqmenfosta” bazris monopolistad

iqca, ris gamoc DHL-ma,

TNT-m, FEDEX-ma da UPS-ma bazari

datoves.

Tu ratom dgas saqarTvelo

igive safrTxis winaSe, „qronika+~ma

aRniSnuli saqmis detalebi

gaarkvia da rogorc aRmoCnda,

saerTaSoriso skandalSi gaxvevis

mizezi SesaZloa, „saqarTvelos

fostis” direqtor levan CikvaiZis

mizanmimarTuli qmedeba iyos,

rom igi bazris monopolisti

gaxdes.

sanam uSualod detalebs gagacnobT,

SegaxsenebT, vin aris levan

CikvaiZe da rogor aRmoCnda

is „saqarTvelos fostis” direqtoris

Tanamdebobaze:

2012 wlis noemberSi „qarTuli

ocnebis” mier mTavrobis dakompleqtebas

ekonomikis saministros

mxridan fostis mmarTvelis

cvlileba moyva, maSindeli ekonomikis

ministris moadgile dimitri

qumsiSvilis gadawyvetilebiT

levan CikvaiZe saTaveSi Caudga

„saqarTvelos fostas”, „latariis

kompaniasa” da Sps „eqspress”.

dimitri qumsiSvili „qarTu

jgufis” yofili TanamSromeli

iyo, CikvaiZe ki _ „qarTuli ocnebis”

mxardamWeri. levan CikvaiZe

2012 wlis arCevnebis periodSi

organizacia „amomrCevelTa ligas”

xelmZRvanelobda, romelmac

saparlamento arCevnebze dakvirveba

da paraleluri xmis daTvla

awarmoa. amomrCevelTa liga erTerTi

pirveli iyo, romelmac sazogadoebas

„qarTuli ocnebis”

gamarjveba amcno. swored es gaxda,

savaraudod, CikvaiZis dawinaurebis

mizezi da mas „saqarTvelos

fosta” Caabares.

CikvaiZem, fostaSi misvlisTanave,

brZaneba gamosca da Tanam-

SromelTa absoluturi umravlesoba

mudmivi an mravalwliani

kontraqtebidan erTTvian kontraqtebze

gadaiyvana, erTTviani

xelSekrulebis vadis gasvlis Semdeg

ki TanamSromelTa nawili samsaxurebidan

gaaTavisufla. ufro

konkretulad ki, 2012 wlis noembridan

zafxulamde, 150 Tanam-

Sromeli daiTxova, maTgan 65-ma

sasamarTlos mimarTa, 38-ma procesi

moigo. 38 adamians saqarTvelos

fostam 900 aTas larze meti

ukve gadauxada.

garda imisa, rom CikvaiZem samsaxuridan

ukanono ganTavisuflebebiT

finansurad daazarala

„saqarTvelos fosta”, is mosvlis

dRidan dakavebuli iyo naTesavebisa

da axloblebis dasaqmebiT,

nepotizmi misi marTvis stilis

ganuyofel nawilad iqca:

rogorc ukve aRvniSneT, 2012

wlis arCevnebis dros CikvaiZe

22

„amomrCevelTa ligas” xelmZRvanelobda,

fostis xelmZRvanelad

daniSvnis Semdeg amomrCevelTa

ligis mmarTveli 10 delegatidan

9 delegati daasaqma mis daqvemdebarebul

saxelmwifo kompaniebSi:

„saqarTvelos fostaSi”, „latariis

kompaniasa” da Sps „eqspresSi”.

„amomrCevelTa ligis” wevr-

Ta nawili, romelic CikvaiZem fostaSi

daasaqma, 2012 wlis arCevnebis

dros „qarTuli ocnebis” mxardamWerebi

iyvnen. amas adasturebs

maT mier socialur qsel-

Si atvirTuli fotoebi „ocnebis”

maisurebiT. aRsaniSnavia, rom

„amomrCevelTa ligis” prezentacias

2012 wels levan gaCeCilaZec

SeuerTda. mogvianebiT, gaCeCilaZis

Svili da misi Tanagundelebi

CikvaiZem misdami daqvemdebarebul

kompaniebSi daasaqma. im periodSi

fostaSi CikvaiZem daasaqma

axla ukve umravlesobis rigebidan

garicxuli deputati biZina

gegiZe _ levan gaCeCilaZis megobari

da warsulSi politikuri

partniori; fostaSi komerciul

direqtorad daniSna gaCeCilaZis

kompaniis direqtori, radio „ucnobis”

yofili komerciuli

direqtori, viqtor wilosani; finansuri

departamentis sabuRaltro

samsaxuris ufrosad _ Jana

balasaniani, romelic aseve radio

„ucnobis” yofili buRalteri

iyo; „saqarTvelos fostisTvis”

marTvaSi gadacemul saxelmwifo

kompania „eqspresSi” daasaqma sakuTari

biZaSvili luka CikvaiZe. am

konkretuli faqtebidan aSkaraa,

rom CikvaiZe zrunavda sakuTari

axloblebisa da naTesavebis keTildReobaze

saxelmwifos kuTvnilebaSi

arsebuli kompaniebis

xarjze.

CikvaiZis daniSvnidan 1 wlis

Semdeg „saqarTvelos fostis

mogeba 0 lari iyo, xolo CikvaiZe

saqarTveloSi erT-erTi yvelaze

maRalanazRaurebadi adamiani gaxda,

konkretulad ki:

2012 wels „saqarTvelos fostis~

Semosavali 61 mln. lari iyo,

xolo mogeba _ 7 mln lari. 2013

wels Semosavali 47 mln. laramde,

mogeba ki 494 000 laramde Semcirda.

2014 wels Semosavali 54

mln. lari iyo, xolo mogeba _ 0

lari. ganulda salaro aparatiT

miRebuli Semosavlebis odenobac.

Tu 2012 wels salaro aparatiT

miRebuli Tanxa 21 mln. 721 aTas

lars aRemateboda, 2013 da 2014

wlebSi sakontrolo salaro

aparatis gamoyenebiT aRricxuli

Semosavlis odenoba nulia.

rogorc 2017 wlis konsolidirebuli

finansuri angariSgebidan

irkveva, jgufis wminda mogeba

2016-2017 wlebSi uaryofiTia

(zarali) da, Sesabamisad, 2 252

aTas da 326 aTas lars utoldeba.

calke aRebuli „saqarTvelos

`saqarTvelos fostis~ direqtori ukve 2012 wlidan TaRliTuri sqemebiTa

da nepotizmiT marTavs kompanias, Tumca rogorc CvenTvis gaxda cnobili,

mas sxvadasxva etapze lobirebdnen gavleniani pirebi, maT Soris,

janyaraSvili, kvirikaSvil-qumsiSvili, aseve biZina gegiZe da faqtia, rom

mas axlac hyavs lobistebi `qarTul ocnebaSi~

fostis” SemTxvevaSi ki 2017 wlis

zarali 409 aTas lars Seadgens.

cxrili #1 asaxavs jgufis finansur

maCveneblebs bolo 2 wlisTvis.

2017 wels, wina periodTan

SedarebiT, daaxloebiT 23%-iT

gaizarda jgufis Semosavlebi,

magram xarjebis ufro maRali

tempiT zrdis Sedegad 16%-iT

gaizarda saoperacio zarali da

1.5 mln lari Seadgina. aRniSnuli

zarali nawilobriv daabalansa

saprocento Semosavlebma da

sakurso sxvaobidan miRebulma

mogebam, Sedegad, wminda zarali

326 aTas laramde Semcirda. samagierod,

gaizarda xelfasebisTvis

gankuTvnili Tanxa: 2012 wels

fostis xelfasebze 14 mln lari

daixarja. 2013 wels _ 19 mln.,

xolo 2014 wels _ 21 mln., levan

CikvaiZe ki saqarTveloSi erTerTi

yvelaze maRalanazRaurebadi

adamiani gaxda: marto 1 wlis

ganmavlobaSi, xelfasis saxiT, man

157 aTas larze meti miiRo, anu

TveSi _ 13 aTas larze meti.

direqtorma, romelic TveSi 13

`CikvaiZem, fostaSi misvlisTanave, brZaneba

gamosca da TanamSromelTa absoluturi

umravlesoba mudmivi an mravalwliani

kontraqtebidan erTTvian kontraqtebze

gadaiyvana, erTTviani xelSekrulebis vadis

gasvlis Semdeg ki TanamSromelTa nawili

samsaxurebidan gaaTavisufla. ufro

konkretulad ki, 2012 wlis noembridan

zafxulamde, 150 TanamSromeli daiTxova,

maTgan 65-ma sasamarTlos mimarTa, 38-ma

procesi moigo. 38 adamians saqarTvelos

fostam 900 aTas larze meti ukve gadauxada~

aTas larze mets iRebs, ver daiangariSa,

ra ujdeba kompanias

universaluri momsaxureba?

giorgi kvirikaSvilis ekonomikis

ministrad yofnis periodSi

saxelmwifom 300 000 dolari gadaixada

da didi oTxeulidan

erT-erT auditorul kompanias

KFMG-s daavala gamoeTvala, Tu

ra ujdeboda „saqarTvelos fostas”

universaluri momsaxurebis

ganxorcieleba. rogorc „qronika+~-isTvis

gaxda cnobili, CikvaiZem

kompanias mizanmimarTulad

arasworad miawoda universaluri

momsaxurebis ganmarteba, rom rac

SeiZleba meti gamosuliyo xarji.

KFMG-m im ganmartebiT, rac

CikvaiZem miawoda, jamurad, daaxloebiT,

11 milioni daiTvala.

rogorc gairkva, levan CikvaiZem

isev daiqirava KFMG da mizanmimarTulad,

igive ganmartebis

Tanaxmad, aTvlevinebs kompaniis

finansebs.

„saqarTvelos fostis” direqtori

ukve 2012 wlidan TaRli-

Turi sqemebiTa da nepotizmiT

marTavs kompanias, Tumca rogorc

CvenTvis gaxda cnobili, mas sxvadasxva

etapze lobirebdnen gavleniani

pirebi, maT Soris, janyaraSvili,

kvirikaSvil-qumsiSvili,

aseve biZina gegiZe da faqtia,

rom mas axlac hyavs lobistebi

“qarTul ocnebaSi“.

auditis samsaxurSi „saqarTvelos

fostis” direqtoris mxridan

savaraudo kanondarRvevaze miu-

TiTeben. es daskvna 2019 wlis 15

marts gamoqveynda. uwyeba ganmartavs,

rom saqarTvelos samoqalaqo

kodeqsis mixedviT, warmomadgenels

ar SeuZlia, warmodgenili

piris saxeliT sakuTar Tav-

Tan, rogorc mesame piris warmomadgenelma,

dados garigeba. „saqarTvelos

fostis” direqtorma

„saqarTvelos latariis kompaniasTan”

SeTanxmebebi gaaforma. xelSekrulebebs,

rogorc fostis,

ise latariis kompaniis mxridan,

xels awers erTi da igive piri,

romelic erTdroulad aris

22 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


saerTaSoriso skandalSi exveva?!

orive kompaniis generaluri direqtori.

saubaria fostasa da latariis

kompanias Soris qonebasTan

da davalianebasTan dakav-

Sirebul urTierTobebze.

„latariis kompaniasTan dakav-

Sirebul or SemTxvevaSi _ qonebis

gadacema droebiT sargebloba-

Si da qonebis gadacema davalianebis

sanacvlod _ darRveulia

saqarTvelos samoqalaqo kodeqsis

moTxovna sakuTar TavTan

garigebis dadebis dauSveblobis

Sesaxeb. kerZod, xelSekrulebebs,

rogorc fostis, ise latariis kompaniis

mxridan, xels awers erTi

da igive piri, romelic erTdroulad

aris orive kompaniis generaluri

direqtori. msgavsi garigebis

dadebisas SesaZloa, arsebobdes

interesTa konfliqti.

pirisTvis, romelic ori sxvadasxva

mxarisTvis debs erT garigebas,

rTuli gadasawyvetia, romel warmodgenil

mxares Seuqmnas saukeTeso

pirobebi. erTisTvis upiratesobis

miniWeba avtomaturad moqmedebs

meore mxaris sawinaaRmdegod.

am SemTxvevaSi latariis kompaniisTvis

davalianebis sanacvlod

qonebis gadacemasTan dakav-

Sirebul sakiTxSi, erT mxares

warmoadgens 100%-iT saxelmwifo,

xolo meore mxares 70%-iT saxelmwifo

da 30%-iT kerZo sakuTrebaSi

arsebuli kompania, romelic

sakuTari ekonomikuri miznebidan

gamomdinare moqmedebs”, _

aRniSnulia dokumentSi.

erT SemTxvevaSi saubaria 2018

wels davalianebis sanacvlod

latariis kompaniisTvis qonebis

gadacemaze. „2018 wlis dasawyisSi

gaformebuli morigebis aqtis

safuZvelze, gadasaxdeli 661 728

laris sanacvlod, Sps „saqarTvelos

fostam” Sps „saqarTvelos

latariis kompanias” sakuTrebaSi

gadasca uZravi qoneba, saerTo

farTiT 1,858.85 kv.m. ssip _ saxelmwifo

qonebis erovnuli saagentos

pozicia am tranzaqciasTan

dakavSirebiT bundovania da gaugebaria,

eTanxmeba Tu ara saagento

valis sanacvlod qonebis gasxvisebas.

Sesabamisad, saxelmwifo

auditis samsaxuri ver darwmun-

da, ramdenad daculia maregulirebeli

normis moTxovna da

SeTanxmebulia Tu ara sakiTxi

saagentosTan, aseve ramdenad mar-

Tlzomieria fostis qmedebebi

saxelmwifo qonebis aseTi formiT

gasxvisebasTan dakavSirebiT”,

aRniSnulia dokumentSi.

SeZlebs Tu ara „saqarTvelos

fosta” gaxdes bazris monopolisti

da gaexveva Tu ara Turqmene-

Tis Semdeg saqarTveloc msgavs

skandalSi, am kiTxvebze pasuxi

jer ar gvaqvs. es ukve damokidebulia

imaze, gaagrZelebs Tu ara

TaRliTuri stiliT muSaobas

CikvaiZe „saqarTvelos fostis”

direqtoris postze.

`qronika+~ komentarisTvis `saqarTvelos

fostis~ direqtors levan

CikvaiZes daukavSirda,man Cvens

satelefono zarebs ar upasuxa.

me-13 gverdidan

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ bolo kvleevebis Tanaxmad, mosaxleobis

TiTqmis naxevari gadauwyveteli amomrCevelia.

swored es aris is „oqros rezervi”,

romlis sakuTar amomrCevlad qceva

opoziciam darCenil TveebSi unda SeZlos.

_ TbilisSi jdomiT da mxolod

teleekranebidan qadagebiT am „oqros”

daTreva Zalian gaWirdeba. ukacravad, Se-

gawyvetineT...

_ zogadad, am tipis kvlevebSi sxvadasxva

SekiTxvis pasuxebi erTmaneTs avsebs da

Sors mimavali daskvnebis gamotanis saSualebac

Cndeba. amis sailustraciod moviyvan

erT magaliTs: 64% ki aris ukmayofilo

mTavrobis muSaobiT, magram roca partiebis

mxardaWeraze midga saqme, jamurad mxolod

40%-ma icis, vis aZlevs xmas. am kiTxvebze

pasuxebis erTmaneTTan dakavSireba

imis naTel suraTs gvaZlevs, rom xelisuflebis

mimarT negatiurad ganwyobili

amomrCevlis mniSvnelovani nawili, jerjerobiT,

arc erT opoziciur partias ar aZlevs

xmas. anu opoziciuri xmebi jer srulad

partiebze ar gadanawilebula. es aris

amomrCevlis is didi politikuri masivi,

romelzedac opoziciam unda imuSaos, Tu

unda arCevnebze dRevandeli Sedegis gaumjobeseba.

vfiqrob, e. w. teqnikuri, anu saer-

To opoziciuri sia da maJoritarul olqebSi

saerTo opoziciuri kandidatebi aris

opoziciis yvelaze mZlavri berketi gamarjvebisTvis,

daqsaqsuli opoziciis SemTxvevaSi

gamarjveba bevrad ufro rTulia.

_ gverds ver avuvli „Savi siis” Temas.

ratom „Savi sia” da ufro kreatiuli sxva

ram ara _ ver vxvdebi. SemiZlia, varian-

tebic ki Camovwero, magram, rogorc

ityvian, idea fuli Rirs. ra politikuri

efeqti SeiZleba amas moyves da gnebavT,

dividendebi politikuri procesisTvis?

xaTuna

lagaziZe:

`sakuTari partiebis SigniT

demokratiis mowinaaRmdege

liderebi qveyanaSi

demokratias aaSeneben?!~

amas ufro opoziciis kreatiulobis kon-

teqstSi gekiTxebiT...

_ sxvaTa Soris, mixvdnen „Sav siebTan”

dakavSirebul Secdomasac da saakaSvilis

bolo gamosvlis dros 20 ivnisis Temaze

wamosrolil frazebze sazogadoebis nawilis

ukureaqciasac da sapasuxod saintereso

ram SemogvTavazes „vanos Sous”

bolo gadacemaSi, sadac saakaSvili gadatrialebis

Temas sakmaod niWierad Tavad

aSarJebs da aneitralebs. vano javaxiSvilis

replikis fonze: „ra qveyanaa es ukraina,

sadac iumoristi prezidenti xdeba da

prezidenti _ iumoristio”. saakaSvilis

agresiuli imijis iumoriT Semsubuqeba

kargi svla iyo mis mimarT arsebuli SiSis,

met-naklebad, gasaneitraleblad da

gvaCvena, rom is niWier reJisorTan erTad

kargi msaxiobic aris. mokled, kargad

moirgo xalxosnuri imiji.

opozicias kreatiuloba aklia erTad

da cal-calke: axali, araordinaluri

midgomebiT xalxis gaoceba. sami ZiriTadi

faqtoria, ris gamoc Camouyalibebeli

amomrCeveli opozicias jer kidev ar uWers

mxars: pirveli _ es aris imedgacrueba

maTi warsuli qmedebebis gamo; meore _

opoziciis did nawils ar aqvs sistemuri

xedva da strategia, amomrCevels ras

SesTavazeben ivaniSvilis gaSvebis SemTxvevaSi.

Tumca, am mxriv, gamonaklisia giorgi

vaSaZis „strategia aRmaSenebeli” da mamuka

xazaraZis saprogramo xedva „lelos”

dafuZnebis RonisZiebaze; mesame faqtori

ki, rac aucilebelia amomrCevlis dasamuxtad,

aris is, rom xalxs, qveynis Senebis

strategiasTan erTad, moqmedebebis iseTi

taqtikuri naxazi unda daanaxvo, rom Seni

gamarjvebisa da Seni kargi strategiis realizaciis

SesaZleblobaSi daarwmuno. amis

gaTvaliswineba aucilebelia opoziciis

gasamarjveblad.

_ ukve intensiurad saubroben imaze,

rom gaxaraias male mouwevs Tanamdebobis

datoveba. mizezebs mniSvneloba Sesa-

Zloa, arc hqondes. ase davsvaT sakiTxi,

_ ramdenad gaamarTla man momxreebis im-

edebi da ramdenad Zlieri an pozitiuri,

sasargeblo premieri aRmoCnda igi?

_ gaxariam, jerjerobiT, veraferi

moaswro premieris postze. imasac ver mivxvdi,

ra moigo gaxariam 20 ivnisis sakuTar

Tavze aiRebiT?! Tavad mas Tu aqvs damakmayofilebeli

pasuxi am kiTxvaze?!

_ dabolos, mainc, ras fiqrobT, ra

aris qarTuli saxelmwifos nomer pirve-

li amocana 2020 wels, dRis wesrigis

umTavresi sakiTxis _ arCevnebis parale-

lurad?

_ mosaxleobis dacva sainformaciofsiqologiuri

terorisgan, romelsac

gare mteric da Sinauri „moyvarec”, anu xelisufleba,

mis winaaRmdeg erToblivad

awarmoebs da rac wlis bolos „feisbuqma”

oficialurad daadastura; sagareo politikaSi

_ sakuTari adgilisa da rolis

Rirseuli gaazreba da siraqlemis pozaze

uaris Tqma; axali politikuri liderebis

asparezze gamosvlis xelSewyoba, inovaciuri

ekonomikuri xedvebi da ganaTleba,

rogorc mudmivi orientiri.

_ didi madloba, rogorc yovelTvis,

saintereso da damafiqrebeli interviu

gamogvivida.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

23


`xalxs, nawilobriv,

„2019 wlis 20 ivniss biZina iva-

giorgi abaSiZe

niSvili wkipze iyo, kidev cotac

da es reJimi daemxoboda”, _ es

gancxadeba saqarTvelos mesame prezidentma, mixeil saakaS-

vilma ramdenime dRis win „mTavar aqcentebSi” gaakeTa da aseve

Tqva, rom maSin opoziciam momenti xelidan gauSva.

„Cemi azriT, momenti gaSvebul

iqna. es ar iyo is, rom vinmes SeTqmuleba

hqonda. ubralod, Tavis

Tavs Tavad amboxebda biZina

ivaniSvili. Tavisi TavxedobiT

moaxdina xalxis reaqciis provocireba.

axla mivxvdiT, rom ukan

dasaxevi gza aRar arsebobs, ukan

niSnavs saqarTvelos ganadgurebas.

dRes opozicia yvelafrisTvis

mzad aris. me piradad

mzad var, Tavi Sevwiro bolomde

Cemi sisxlis bolo wveTamde.

wels saqarTvelodan ivaniSvils

gavacilebT. qarTveli xalxi gamogvyveba

ukan, roca dainaxavs,

rom liderebi bolomde wiraven

Tavs. Cven gvyavs liderebi, maT

Soris, Tqven. nika meliam aCvena

saocari gambedaobis magaliTebi,

igive Jorika ruruam aCvena es

magaliTi. Cven gvyavs xalxi, vinc

aCvenebs am magaliTebs”, ganacxada

mixeil saakaSvilma.

eqsprezidentis am xmauriani

gancxadebis Seswavla Sinagan saqmeTa

saministrom maSinve daiwyo.

„erT-erTi mediasaSualebis

eTerSi yofilma prezidentma,

mixeil saakaSvilma, gaakeTa gancxadeba,

romlis mixedviTac, „2019

wlis 20 ivniss biZina ivaniSvili

wkipze iyo. cotac da es reJimi

daemxoboda. maSin, Cemi azriT,

momenti gaSvebul iqna”. aRniSnuli

gancxadeba warmoadgens sakmaris

safuZvels varaudisTvis,

rom 2019 wlis 20 ivniss, mixeil

saakaSvilis uSualo monawileobiTa

da xelmZRvanelobiT, ganxorcielda

saxelmwifo xelisuflebis

Zaladobrivi gziT damxobis

aSkara mcdeloba”, _ vkiTxulobT

Sss-s gancxadebaSi.

aris Tu ara saakaSvilis gancxadeba

imis mtkicebuleba, rom

gasuli wlis 20 ivniss opozicia

xelisuflebis damxobas gegmavda?

_ am kiTxviT „qronika+”-ma

iuristsa da adamianis uflebaTa

damcvel lia muxaSavrias mimar-

Ta, romelic ganmartavs, rom Tu

mtkicebulebebis erToblioba ar

arsebobs, eqsprezidentis zemoxsenebuli

gancxadeba ar SeiZleba,

xelisuflebis damxobis utyuar

mtkicebulebad miviCnioT.

amasTan, muxaSavrias garkveu-

li kiTxvebi opoziciasTanac

aqvs da am konteqstSi ambobs,

rom adamianebi politikaSi qveynis

ki ara, sakuTari keTildReobisTvis

modian, Tumca ufle-

badamcveli imedovnebs, rom am

realobas axali Taoba Secvlis.

_ qalbatono lia, ramdenime

dRis win saqarTvelos mesame

prezidentma, mixeil saakaSvilma,

„mTavari arxis” eTerSi ga-

nacxada, 20 ivniss, „ocneba” damxobis

zRvarze idgao, rasac mxolod

mmarTveli partiis warmomadgenelTa

sagangebo brifin-

gebi ki ar moyva, aramed, Sss-m

gamoZiebac daiwyo. Tqveni,

rogorc iuristis SefasebiT,

arsebobs samarTlebrivi safuZveli,

rom saakaSvilis zemoxsenebuli

gancxadeba aseTi aJio-

taJis safuZveli gamxdariyo?

_ aseTi seriozuli danaSaulis

wardgenisTvis mxolod

saakaSvilis gancxadeba sakmarisi

araa, miT ufro, im pirobebSi,

roca am saqmeze dakavebulic

aSkarad politikuri devnis msxverplia,

Tumca Cveni prokuratura

politikuri dakveTebis

Sesrulebas ukve ise mieCvia, rom

gamoZiebis kvalifikacia saer-

Tod dakarga.

mokled, aseTi tipis gamoZiebisTvis

saakaSvilis gancxadeba

SeiZleba, erT-erT arapirdapir

mtkicebulebad CaiTvalos. sxva-

Ta Soris, Cveni konstitucia ambobs,

ar SeiZleba, adamiani gancxadebis

safuZvelze pasuxisgebaSi

mieceso. aqedan gamomdinare,

saakaSvilis gancxadeba, Tu Sesa-

Zlo damxobas sxva mtkicebulebebis

erTobliobac ar adasturebs,

samarTlebrivad gamyarebuli

ver iqneba.

ise, yvelas gvismenen da

gviTvalTvaleben da Tu aqamde

masalebi ar hqondaT, axla ki

gamoZiebas saakaSvilis gancxadebam

gaunaTa goneba, es cxadia,

sakmarisi ar aris.

_ sxvaTa Soris, am saqmeze

irakli oqruaSvili patimroba-

Sia. brali nika meliasac aqvs

wayenebuli. Sesabamisad, saakaSvilis

gancxadeba ar SeiZleba, dam-

atebiT garemoebad CaiTvalos?

_ 20 ivnisis saqmeze gamoZieba

isedac midioda, Tumca ar mgonia,

rom aseTi seriozuli ganzraxulobis

gansaxorcieleblad

mxolod sami adamiani iyos sakmarisi.

minimum, damxobis gegmac

cnobili unda gaxdes. erTi sityviT,

xelisuflebis damxoba

iolad dasadasturebeli araa,

Tu, ra Tqma unda, ar gaviTvaliswinebT,

rom saqme gvaqvs

saqarTvelos prokuraturasTan

da yvelaferi es politikuri

dakveTis nawilad gamoiyureba.

_ e. i., „ocneba”, tradiciulad,

cdilobs, rom saakaSvilisgan

„bua” Seqmnas da sazogadoe-

ba SeaSinos?

_ diax, swored asea.

_ qalbatono lia, yurSi mo-

mxvda, weRan rom TqviT, yvelas

gvismenen da gviTvalTvalebeno.

masobrivi TvalTvalisa da mos-

iyo, rac piruTvnelad Seasrula.

axla ki, rogorc Cans, swored es

„damsaxureba” ufasdeba, anu xelisufleba

roca isev krizisSi

aRmoCnda, tradiciulad, karuselze

midis da SoTaZesac Zvel

adgilas imitom abrunebs, rom

sxva gamosavals ver xedavs!

zogadad, „ocnebas” demokratiuli

marTvis unari ar gaaCnia,

rac axali kadrebis moZiebasa da

maRal Tanamdebobebze Tavisufali

adamianebis daniSvnas gulisxmobs.

SeSinebuli ivaniSvili da

misi garemocva cdiloben, rom

xelisuflebaSi darCeniT saku-

Tari biznesebi, monapovari da

„monagari” gadaarCinon. amitom

maTTis mTavaria, situaciaze kontroli

SeinarCunon da aqedan gamomdinare,

hgoniaT, Tu prokuraturasa

da, saerTod, Zalovan

uwyebebSi sakuTari warmomadgenlebi

eyolebaT, es kontrolis

seriozuli garantia iqneba, magram

ase ar aris.

_ ratom?

_ imitom, rom „ocnebis” avtoriteti

Zalian Seryeulia!

arCevnebi karsaa momdgari da Cavardnebi

_ cxovrebis donisa da

pirobebis gauareseba, finansursa

da ekonomikurze rom araferi

vTqvaT, politikuri krizisi

vinmes unda dabraldes. hoda,

samTavrobo karuseli, romelzedac

laparakoben, swored amas

emsaxureba, anu ivaniSvili gamova

da ityvis, _ es xalxi ar gamomadga

da amitomac Sevcvaleo.

es martivi scenaria, romelic

xelebis Sewmendis mcdeloba iqneba,

Torem darwmunebuli var,

Tavad Cemze metad arian informirebulni,

sazogadoebam zurgi

rogor aqcia da maTgan kargs

arafers moelis.

simarTle giTxraT, sociologiuri

gamokvlevis Catareba ar

micdia, magram meeWveba, Cem gar-

Semo vinme iyos, visac „ocneba”

moswons da kidev unda, rom xelisuflebis

saTaveSi ixilos!

mokled, ar mgonia, rom es amlia

muxaSavria:

`yvelas gvismenen da

gviTvalTvaleben,

amitom satelefono

saubrebis dros

mniSvnelovans

arafers vambobT!~

menis, ase vTqvaT, sindromi „na-

cionalebis”

mmarTvelobis

dros arsebobda. axla ki, mgoni,

pirveli xarT, vinc masobriv

TvalTvalze daiwyeT saubari.

amis safuZvliani argumentebi

gaqvT?

_ diax, viTareba arc axla

Secvlila, anu ver mivaRwieT,

rom im masalebis e. w. gasaRebi,

romliTac faruli Canawerebi

iqmneba, neitralur mxares hqondes.

Sesabamisad, mosmena da

TvalTvali kvlav xelisuflebis

berketia, romelic kanoniTac

ganimtkica da romelsac, bunebrivia,

iyenebs. am ambavs ise miveCvieT,

rom satelefono saubrebis

dros mniSvnelovans arafers

vambobT. am konkretul SemTxvevaSic,

rogorc Cans, satelefono

saubrebiT konkretuli da

saTanado mtkicebulebebi ver

moagroves da raki saakaSvilma interviuSi

is frazebi Tqva, hgoniaT,

rom gamoZiebisTvis sakmarisia,

magram ase ar aris!

_ raki mTavari prokuratura

vaxseneT, barem, SoTaZis „meored

mosvlasac” SevexoT, miT umetes,

rom yofili mTavari prokuroris

mTavar prokurorad dabruneba,

albaT, wlis erT-erTi skandali

iqneba. Tqveni azriT, „oc-

nebas” SoTaZis dabruneba risT-

vis unda awyobdes da, saerTod,

iziarebT „qocebis” narativs,

rom SoTaZe Rirseuli adamian-

ia?

_ ver getyviT, SoTaZem prokuraturaze

ra Rirseuli kvali

datova. Tu Rirsebad gadadgoma

miaCniaT, am niSnis gamo namdvilad

ar unda dabrundes.

saerTod, Tavis droze, SoTaZe

imitom ki ar gadadga, rom profesiulma

sindisma Seawuxa da am

nabijis gadadgma politikurma

alRom ukarnaxa, aramed misi

gadadgoma ivaniSvilis dakveTa

àseTi tipis gamoZiebisTvis saakaSvilis

gancxadeba SeiZleba, erT-erT arapirdapir

mtkicebulebad CaiTvalos. sxvaTa Soris, Cveni

konstitucia ambobs, ar SeiZleba, adamiani

gancxadebis safuZvelze pasuxisgebaSi mieceso.

aqedan gamomdinare, saakaSvilis gancxadeba, Tu

SesaZlo damxobas sxva mtkicebulebebis

erTobliobac ar adasturebs, samarTlebrivad

gamyarebuli ver iqneba~

24

24 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


opoziciac atyuebs!~

bavi kargad dasruldes.

_ ras elodebiT?

_ arCevnebamde ramdenime Tvea,

romelic, minimum, aseve ramdenime

skandals moitans, Tu movlenebi

kidev uaresad ar ganviTarda.

_ qalbatono lia, ratom

ggoniaT, rom arCevnebamde kidev

araerTi skandalis mowmeni

gavxdebiT?

_ Secdomas Secdomaze uSveben,

pasuxi ki aravis moeTxoveba.

im sazogadoebaSi ki, romelic

demokratiul cxovrebas ukve

mieCvia, aseTi raRacebi aravis

gauva.

_ mainc, rogori „raRacebi”?

_ magaliTad, is, rom gaxaria,

imis nacvlad, cixeSi CaesvaT,

daawinaures. aseTi nabijebi sazogadoebis

bunebriv ukureaqcias

iwvevs.

_ geTanxmebiT, magram sazoga-

doebaSi bunebriv ukureaqcias,

vfiqrob, opoziciis calkeuli

nabijebic iwvevs. ase, magaliTad,

20 ivnisis Semdeg „antiocne-

belebi” gaxarias samagaliTod

dasjas iTxovdnen, axla ki „Sav

siaSic” ar Seiyvanes. sxvaTa

Soris, opozicia amas Savs ki ara,

20 ivnisis sanqcirebulTa sias

uwodebs. pirdapir gkiTxavT:

Tqveni dakvirvebiT es opozici-

is Secdomaa Tu „ocnebasTan”

faruli garigebis Sedegia, rom

bobola „meocnebeebi” siis miR-

ma darCnen? sxvaTa Soris,

opozicia magnitskis siiT ima-

rTlebs Tavs, masSi putini ar

iyo Seyvanilio...

_ roca gvWirdeba, ruseTTan

paralelebs vavlebT. roca

gvWirdeba, vambobT, CavexseniT da

iqiT Tavis mibruneba aRar gvindao,

magram iciT, ra meCveneba?

_ ra?

_ yvelafer amiT opoziciam

samomavlod, anu xelisuflebaSi

mosvlis SemTxvevaSi, „imuniteti”

SeinarCunos da pasuxi araferze

moeTxovos. swored amitomacaa

„Savi sia” „W” klasis da ara _ im

pirebiT dakompleqtebuli, romlebic

Seqmnil viTarebaze pasuxismgeblebi

arian.

saerTod, rogorc xelisuflebaSi,

aseve opoziciaSic, Cveni

bedkruli saqarTvelos Svilebi

arian, romlebic bolo wlebis

ganmavlobaSi sakmaod SeTamaSebulad

cxovroben. es wlebi didi

droa saimisod, rom „nacebsa” da

„qocebs” Soris araformaluri

garigeba araTu Semdgariyo,

aramed mtkiced dabetonebuliyo

kidec.

swored amitomac isini mesame

Zalis gamoCenasa da imasac, rom

qveynis mmarTvelad demokratiuli

principebis gundi movides,

yvelanairad xels uSlian. xelisufleba

da opozicia yvelafers

akeTebs, rom skamebis Sesanar-

Cuneblad saarCevno kanonmdebloba

moirgon.

mokled, opozicias hgonia,

`rogorc xelisuflebaSi, aseve opoziciaSic, Cveni bedkruli saqarTvelos

Svilebi arian, romlebic bolo wlebis ganmavlobaSi sakmaod

SeTamaSebulad cxovroben. es wlebi didi droa saimisod, rom `nacebsa~ da

`qocebs~ Soris araformaluri garigeba araTu Semdgariyo, aramed mtkiced

dabetonebuliyo kidec~

rom momavalSi umravlesobaSi iqneba

da „ocnebas” winaswar uTanxmdeba,

Sens danaSaulebs ise,

rogorc wesi da rigia, ar gamoviZieb

da imaze, rasac momavalSi

Caviden, pasuxi arc Sen momTxovoo.

zogadad, politikaSi adamianebi

imitom ki ar midian, rom

qveynis ukeTesi mowyoba da sazogadoebrivi

cxovrebis gaumjobeseba

undaT, yovel SemTxvevaSi,

maT, vinc axla politika-

Si arian, piradi mdgomareobis

gaumjobeseba da cota maRla

acoceba surT, radgan danarCens

zemodan gadmoxedon!

_ e. i., xalxs opoziciac

atyuebs?

_ nawilobriv, ra Tqma unda,

atyuebs! aba, „nacionaluri mo-

Zraoba” morals rom gvikiTxavs

da adamianis fundamenturi uflebebis

darRvevaze niangis cremlebs

Rvris, axla amas ra hqvia?

_ hoda, ai, aqedan gamom-

dinare, ra garantia arsebobs,

rom wlevandel arCevnebSi xe-

lisufleba damarcxdeba, anu

sazogadoeba opoziciis mimarT-

ac nihilisturadaa ganwyobili,

rac, albaT, „ocnebis” wisqvilze

asxams wyals, ara?

_ yvela logika, ra Tqma unda,

aqeTken midis, magram yovelTvis,

roca aseTi pesimisturi Cixis

winaSe aRmovCndebi xolme, erTi

aralogikuri argumenti maxsendeba.

_ kerZod?

_ es qveyana RvTismSoblis

wilxvedria da bolo momentSi

mogvivlens viRacas, romelic

gadagvarCens da gvixsnis!

es, ra Tqma unda, mesianisturi

idea araa, magram vfiqrob, roca

yvela gaisigrZeganebs, marTlac,

ra mZime situaciaSia qveyana, pasuxismgeblobas

TiToeuli Cengani

aiRebs da ityvis, aRar gvinda,

mogvbezrda, yvelam Tavi dagvanebos

da saqmes CveniT ise gavakeTebT,

rogorc qveyanas sWirdebao.

mokled, asea Tu ise, mainc

mgonia, rom aseTi gundisa da

politikosebis gamovlenis perspeqtiva

jer kidev arsebobs!

_ geTanxmebiT, rom pasuxismgebloba

TiToeulma Cvengan-

`Cvenma axalgazrdobam, romelic usazRvrod

meamayeba da miyvars, Tqva, arsadac ar waval

da Cems samSobloSi Rirseulad vicxovrebo!

amitom adga da quCaSi gamovida. mere ra, rom

talaxi Seasxes da am axalgazrdebis

misamarTiT Zalian bevri ugvani ram iTqva.

Cven yvelam gulisgulSi viciT, ra gvinda~

ma unda aviRoT, Torem mesia

ivaniSvilic gvegona da, sab-

olood, sadac mivediT, yvelani

karagd vxedavT!

ise, zogi mesame Zalad mamuka

xazaraZesa da mis „lelos” miiC-

nevs. qalbatono lia, Tqven,

rogorc uflebadamcveli, ras

fiqrobT, xazaraZe, romelic

arcTu Soreul warsulSi „ocnebis”

mexotbe iyo, minimum, ad-

amianis uflebebze unda

saubrobdes?

_ am kiTxvaze ase gipasuxebT:

me mis gundSi ar var da amiT,

mgoni, yvelaferi cxadia!

_ Tu davakvirdebiT, yvelas,

vinc „ocnebas” gaemijneba,

opozicia sixaruliT uRebs

kars. mxolod xazaraZis ki ara,

beselias SemTxvevaSic ase moxda.

e. i., xval „ocnebas” ivaniS-

vili rom gaemijnos, opoziciam

SeiZleba, isic „Seifaros”, ara?

_ diax da swored amitomac

vambob, rom orive mxares am bedkruli

saqarTvelos Svilebi arian

_ amoralurebi, orpirebi da

uprincipoebi. rac xdeba, imaSi

gasakviri araferia! gasakviri

sxva ramea.

_ mainc, ra?

_ uzneoba ise gamefda, rom

zneobrioba dasacini gaxda! uprincipobac

ise gamefda, rom

principuloba umciresobaSia da

aranormalur movlenad iTvleba!

uprincipobis iseTi zeimia, rom

ivaniSvils eqvTime TayaiSvilsac

adareben! ai, es xom Ceni amoralobis

kvintesenciaa!

_ sxvaTa Soris, sanam ga-

naTlebis axlandeli ministri

eqvTimes Seadarebda, Tqvenma

yofilma saqmianma partniorma,

manana kobaxiZem, ivaniSvili Tanamedrove

ilia WavWavaZed gamo-

acxada! hoda, am Tanamedrove

iliasa Tu eqvTimes mxolod

qarTuli sazogadoeba ki ara,

saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobac

„fexze kidia”. ai, am mocemulo-

bidan gamomdinare, risi imedi

unda gvqondes, qalbatono lia?

_ Tavis droze, galileo er-

TaderTi iyo, visac sjeroda,

rom dedamiwa sakuTari RerZis

garSemo brunavda.

_ ukacravad, es ra SuaSia?

_ imis Tqma minda, rom yvelaferi

grovdeba, Tan ar dagaviwydeT,

CvenTan demokratiuli

faseulobebis damkvidreba xelisuflebis

angariSze yvelaze

naklebad aris. es Cven, anu im

adamianebma movipoveT, romlebsac

dasavluri Rirebulebebi

mogvewona da gadavwyviteT, rom

unda dagvemkvidrebina, raSic xelisufleba

yovelTvis xels

gviSlida! yovel SemTxvevaSi, piradad

me, ar magondeba, rom

romelime xelisuflebas uflebadamcvelebisa

Tu dasavluri

demokratiuli Rirebulebebis

momxreebisTvis xeli Seewyos!

diax, Cvens sazogadoebas

moTxovnileba aqvs, rom namdvilad

demokratiul qveyanaSi

icxovros!

Cvenma axalgazrdobam, romelic

usazRvrod meamayeba da miyvars,

Tqva, arsadac ar waval da

Cems samSobloSi Rirseulad

vicxovrebo! amitom adga da qu-

CaSi gamovida. mere ra, rom talaxi

Seasxes da am axalgazrdebis

misamarTiT Zalian bevri ugvani

ram iTqva. Cven yvelam gulisgul-

Si viciT, ra gvinda.

_ ra gvinda?

_ gvinda, rom iseT qveyanaSi

vicxovroT, sadac aravin dagvCagravs,

sadac Cveni sakuTreba daculi

iqneba da Tu vinme Cvens

uflebebs daarRvevs, sasamarTlosa

da prokuraturas mivmar-

ToT da es darRveuli uflebebi

aRvidginoT. sxvaTa Soris, sasamarTlo

da prokuratura swored

amitom arsebobs!

erTi sityviT, Rirseul cxovrebaze

saqarTvelos erTi moqalaqec

ar ityvis uars! adamianis

uflebebi ki am Rirseuli

cxovrebis mTavari atributia!

gasagebia, rom viRacebs undaT,

sazogadoebas tvini mouRricon

da raRac sisuleleebSi daarwmunon,

magram es xom ar Wris!

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom ar

Wris?

_ Cven postsabWoTa sazogadoebis

warmomadgenlebi varT da

viciT, ideologiis xrikebi

rogor da ranairad muSaobs!

diax, Cven boTlidan ukve amovediT

da ukan veRaravin Cagvabrunebs!

ai, umTavresi swored

esaa. mokled, mimaCnia, rom am qveyanaSi

cvlilebebi Zalian iolad

da swrafad SeiZleba. bolos da

bolos, msoflioSi saqarTvelos

sididis qalaqebia, romlebsac

meria patronobs. Cven ki, xelisuflebs

yvela Stos pirobebSi, cvlilebebi

rogor ver unda movaxerxoT?!

vimeoreb: amis gakeTeba Zalian

martivad SeiZleba, Tu arCevnebis

dRes TiToeuli Cvengani gaixsenebs,

rom uRirsi adamianebi

Tavze ar unda davisvaT da ar

unda vaboginoT!

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

25

situacias isic amZafrebs,

rom xelisuflebas problemebi

gundis SigniTac aqvs. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

analitikosTa nawili

mianiSnebs, rom „ocnebaSi” gavlenis

sferoebisTvis gadanawileba

kulminacias aRwevs da SesaZloa,

isec moxdes, rom ivaniSvilis

gundi iseTma cnobilma saxem

datovos, rogoric, magaliTad,

Tbilisis meri kaxa kalaZea.

sxvaTa Soris, politikur kuluarebSi

imis Sesaxebac saubroben,

rom kalaZis ganeitralebis

mizniT, ivaniSvilma, SesaZloa,

dedaqalaqis Tavkacis garemocvis

masobrivi daWerebi daiwyos.

Tu yvelaferi es gamarTlda,

maSin „ocnebas” opoziciisTvis

winaaRmdegobis gawevis

unari aRar eqneba da iZulebuli

gaxdeba, mTeli resursi Sida

buntis CaxSobas moaxmaros.

imaze, rom xelisuflebaSi bunti

mzaddeba, kidev erTi garemoeba

mianiSnebs _ Tanamdebobis

yofili pirebis „meored mosvla”

daiwyo. yovel SemTxvevaSi, mTavari

prokurori, didi albaTobiT,

kvlav irakli SoTaZe gaxdeba.

ras emsaxureba es „meored

mosvla”? _ „leiboristuli partiis”

erT-erTi lideri, giorgi

gugava ambobs, rom ivaniSvils

kadrebis nakleboba aqvs da msgavs

nabijebs swored amitom

dgams. amas garda, gugava „qronika+~-sTan

saubrisas arc imas

gamoricxavs, rom „ocnebaSi” monebis

ajanyeba daiwyos.

„monebma yvelaze sastiki

SurisZieba ician”, _ ambobs giorgi

gugava da dasZens, rom Zveli

kadrebis dabrunebiT ivaniSvili

swored am buntis Cacxrobas

cdilobs.

rogor ganviTardeba proces-

ebi da vin iqneba pirveli „mona”,

romelic „ocnebis” Tavmjdomares

aujanydeba? _ „qronika+~

gTavazobT intervius „lei-

boristuli partiis” erT-erT

lider giorgi gugavasTan:

_ batono giorgi, meored

mosvla, praqtikulad, daiwyo _

sxva Tu araferi, ager, irakli

SoTaZe mTavar prokurorad

brundeba. imasac amboben, rom

biZina ivaniSvili premierobisTvis

emzadeba, zaqaria quc-

naSvili ki _ deputatobisTviso.

mokled, ra moqmedebaa, ra vi-

Tarebaa?

_ yvelaferi es, daaxloebiT,

imas hgavs, adamianma garderobi

„seqend hendSi” nayidi tansacmliT

rom ganaaxlos. meored mosvla

RaribaSviliT daiwyo, axla

SoTaZe modis, romelic bulgakovis

cnobili nawarmoebis personaJs

hgavs. ganaTlebis minis-

26


ivaniSvilis samTavrobo

yvelaferi imaze mianiSnebs,

giorgi abaSiZe

rom wlevandeli weli poli-

tikurad Zalian cxeli iqneba, anu

sakuTari poziciebis daTmobas, arsebuli mocemulobiT, arc

xelisufleba apirebs da arc _ opozicia. Sesabamisad, bavSvic

ki xvdeba, rom saparlamento arCevnebi didi wivil-kivilisa

da cema-tyepis akompanementiT Catardeba.

trad Cxenkelic meored movida,

romelic ivaniSvils diTirambebs

uZRvnis. mokled, es milevad

reJimSi myofi xelisuflebis

ukanaskneli dReebia. am xelisuflebas

sakadro deficiti

aqvs, rac naTlad aCvenebs, rom

figurebis cvlilebis miuxedavad,

arsebiTad araferi Seicvleba.

_ is, rom „ocnebas” kadrebis

nakleboba aqvs, axali araa, magram

Zveli saxeebis „gacocxle-

ba” mainc ras emsaxureba? bolos

da bolos, am qveyanaSi iseTi

karieristebi namdvilad moiZeb-

nebian, romlebic arc „ocnebis”

CasaZirad ganwirul navSi Casx-

domaze ityvian uars.

_ gasagebia, magram is adamiani,

romelsac Tanamdebobaze daniSnaven,

ivaniSvilis maRali sandoobiT

unda iyos aRWurvili.

amas garda, ivaniSvils iseTi kadrebis

daniSvna sCvevia, romlebic

komprometirebulni arian

_ aseTi adamianebi advilad

imarTebian. SeuZlebelia, ivaniSvilis

mTavrobaSi TviTmyofadi

da Tavisufali pirovnebebi

iyvnen. mas monebi da mosamsaxureebi

sWirdeba! dRes mTeli saxelmwifo

sistema oligarqis interesebs

emsaxureba da ara _

saxelmwifos! arada, wesiT, xelisufleba

xalxis mieraa daqiravebuli

da amitom sajaro

interesebs unda atarebdes!

erTi sityviT, ivaniSvili da misi

mona figurebi saxelmwifos arsebobas

safrTxis winaSe ayeneben!

_ batono giorgi, es adamianebi,

romlebsac Tqven monebs eZa-

xiT, xelisuflebaSi aqamdec

iyvnen. hoda, Tu ivaniSvils monebi

sWirdeba, maSin ratom gauS-

va an axla ratom abrunebs maT?

modiT, es „qocuri algoriTmi”

SoTaZis magaliTze amovxsnaT.

_ SoTaZe ivaniSvilma ki ar

gauSva, aramed, garemoebam da

situaciam aiZula, rom gaqceuliyo

_ saraliZis saqmeze sazogadoebas

mkveTri, samarTliani

da masobrivi protesti hqonda.

amitom situacia xelidan rom ar

gaqceoda, ivaniSvilma SoTaZe

zvarakad Seswira. amis Semdeg,

erTi Tavisi mosamsaxure, „udiplomo

sasiZo”, TadumaZe uzenaes

sasamarTloSi gadaiyvana da mTavari

prokuroris vakansiis

Sevseba gaxda saWiro.

saerTod, SoTaZe, rogorc

Cans, kargi Semsrulebelia da

mafiozur binzes-garCevebsac

eswreba xolme _ amis Sesaxeb xazaraZem

ganacxada. aqedan gamomdinare,

ivaniSvili SoTaZesTan,

rogorc Cans, komfortulad

grZnobs Tavs da, misive sityvebiT

rom vTqvaT, davalebis bevrjer

gameoreba ar sWirdeba,

giorgi gugava:

òcnebis~ monebma,

SesaZloa, Tavis

gadarCenis mizniT,

patroni sakuTari

xeliT daklan!~

Torem vTqvi da kidev vimeoreb,

rom normaluri, kvalificiuri

da principuli adamiani am xelisuflebaSi

muSaobaze ar dasTanxmdeba,

radgan „ocnebasTan”

urTierToba sazogadoebis yvela

fenaSi ukve saZraxisad iTvleba.

amasTan, am xelisuflebis

dasasruli gardauvalia!

_ batono giorgi, elodebiT,

rom am politikur meored mos-

vlas ivaniSvilis gapremiereba

daagvirgvinebs?

_ gaviTvaliswinoT, rom

saarCevno welia.

_ diax, magram es ivaniSvilis

SesaZlo gapremierebasTan ra

kavSirSia?

_ „ocnebas” lokomotivi

sWirdeba.

_ anu?

_ marTalia, iCemebs, magram

ivaniSvili analizis didi unariT

ar gamoirCeva, Tumca gadarCenis

instinqti aqvs gamaxvilebuli

da, Sesabamisad, grZnobs,

rom mis reJimsa da mmarTvelobis

maxinj sistemas safrTxe emuqreba,

anu SesaZloa, Zalaufleba

dakargos. Zalauflebis dakargvas

ki yvelafris dakargvad

aRiqvams. aqedan gamomdinare, ivaniSvili

iseTi svlebis gakeTebas

cdilobs, romliTac Tavs gadairCens.

_ anu ivaniSvili fiqrobs,

rom Tu Crdilidan gamova da

mTavrobis meTauri gaxdeba,

amiT Tavs gadairCens?

_ isic gasaTvaliswinebelia,

rom ivaniSvili Sida safrTxeebsac

grZnobs.

_ ra „Sida safrTxeze”

akeTebT aqcents, batono gior-

gi?

_ ivaniSvils SesaZloa, mTeli

sistema CamoeSalos, amitom es

safrTxe rom gaaneitralos, amis

gamo, albaT, iZulebuli gaxdeba,

Crdilidan gamovides da premierobaze

formaluri pasuxismgebloba

aiRos!

ìvaniSvili SoTaZesTan, rogorc Cans,

komfortulad grZnobs Tavs da, misive

sityvebiT rom vTqvaT, davalebis bevrjer

gameoreba ar sWirdeba, Torem vTqvi da kidev

vimeoreb, rom normaluri, kvalificiuri da

principuli adamiani am xelisuflebaSi

muSaobaze ar dasTanxmdeba, radgan

òcnebasTan~ urTierToba sazogadoebis yvela

fenaSi ukve saZraxisad iTvleba. amasTan, am

xelisuflebis dasasruli gardauvalia!~

26 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

_ sxvaTa Soris, kuluarebSi

amboben, rom erT-erTi pirveli,

vinc ivaniSvils gaemijneba,

Tbilisis meri kaxa kalaZe iqne-

ba. am mosazrebas iziarebT?

_ saerTod, ajanyebis dros

patrons yvelaze sastikad monebi

uswordebian xolme! am gaqsuebulma

deputatebma, mTavrobis

wevrebma da Sua rgolis warmomadgenlebma

fuli iSoves. axla

ki xelisuflebis mimarT sazogadoebis

damokidebulebas met-naklebad

grZnoben da imasac xvdebian,

xalxs maTi da maTi sanaTesavos

misamarTiT ra dedis tirili

aqvs atexili.

amasTan, saerTaSoriso koniunqturasac

grZnoben da amitom,

Tavis gadarCenis mizniT, Sesa-

Zloa, TavianTi patroni saku-

Tari xeliT daklan. SurisZiebis

dros monebi yvelaze sastikni

arian, raTa momavalSi rogorme

Tavi gadairCinon!

mokled, ivaniSvili grZnobs,

rom Sida safrTxe mxolod

kalaZisgan ki ara, sxva figurebisganac

modis! amitom Seecdeba,

rom vertikali gaamyaros da

premieris posti daikavos.

_ e. i., gapremierebiT ivaniS-

vili „qocebis”, ase vTqvaT,

gulismosagebad Sida buntis

CaxSobas Seecdeba?

_ aba, meored mobruneba ki

ara, ivaniSvilma monarqis gvirgvinic

rom daidgas, mis mimarT

sazogadoebis damokidebuleba

ar Seicvleba _ xalxi mas ise

icnobs, rogorc TaRliTs, gadamgdebs,

qveynis damaqcevarsa da

saxelmwifos CamomSlels! aqedan

gamomdinare, ra statusic unda

hqondes, veravis guls veRar

moigebs! am maxinji saxelisuflebo

sistemis saTaveSi formalurad

mxolod imitom

moeqceva, rom Sida gadatrialebis

msxverpli ar gaxdes!

_ sxvaTa Soris, „endiais”

bolo gamokiTxvamac naTelyo,

rom ivaniSvils Warbi ndoba

aRar aqvs. ise, batono giorgi,

albaT, imasac miaqcieT yura-

dReba, rom politikur meored

mosvlamde uwmindesma meored

mosvlaze iqadaga da ganacxada,

apokalifsamde SesaZloa, ram-

denime dReRaa darCenilio.

_ patriarqma Tavis qadagebas,

albaT, ufro politikuri


`seqend hendi~

`xalxis suverenuli uflebaa, rom damoukidebeli saxelmwifo hqondes da

iseTi daqiravebuli xelisufleba hyavdes, romelsac airCevs! Tu vinme

Seecdeba, rom es suverenuli ufleba waarTvas, maSin xalxisgan umZimes

risxvas daimsaxurebs!~

datvirTva misca, radgan saxarebaSi

macxovari ambobs, meored

mosvlis Sesaxeb mxolod mama

RmerTma icis da sxvam aravino.

amitom patriarqi meored mosvlaSi,

rogorc Cans, samefo karis

gadatrialebebs gulisxmobda!

_ giorgi batono, aT wuTze

metia, vsaubrobT da maxvils

ivaniSvilze svamT. arada, im sia-

Si, romelsac mediam „Savi sia”

uwoda, opoziciam ivaniSvili ar

Seiyvana. ratom?

_ es sia „Savi” ar aris.

_ aba, ra feria, anu rogor

hqvia?

_ es „sanqcirebulTa siaa”,

romelsac metaforulad, Sei-

Zleba, 20 ivnisis sia vuwodoT.

„Savi sia” Jurnalistebma arasworad

aitaces, Semdeg ki saxelisuflebo

ruporebma gamoiyenes,

raTa am siasTan Savbneli mogonebebi

daekavSirebinaT.

_ Savi Tu sanqcirebulTa,

amas mniSvneloba ar aqvs. mTavari

isaa, rom am siaSi opozi-

ciam arc ivaniSvili Seiyvana,

arc _ gaxaria da arc _ sxva

romelime gavleniani Tanamde-

bobis piri. amixeniT, ratom?

_ am sias absoluturad sxva

datvirTva aqvs.

_ mainc, ra „sxva datvirTva”?

_ 25 welze metia, politikur

JurnalistikaSi trialebT da

analizis gakeTeba yvelaze

ukeTesad SegiZliaT.

_ madloba komplimentisTvis,

magram Tu SeiZleba, kiTxvaze

mipasuxeT: zemoxsenebul siaSi

ivaniSvili, gaxaria da Tanamde-

bobis sxva gavleniani pirebi

ratom ar SeiyvaneT?

_ am siis mizani im sajaro Cinovnikebis

warmoCenaa, romlebic

ukanono davalebebs asruleben

da kanonis moTxovnebiT ki ara,

dakveTebze muSaoben! aseTi sajaro

moxeleebi mosamarTleebi,

policiisa Tu administraciis

TanamSromlebi da „zonderebi”

arian. siis mizania, am adamianebis

saxe sazogadoebas kargad gavacnoT,

anu TiToeul maTgans

diskomforti Seeqmnas da icodes,

rom misi pasuxismgeblobis

sakiTxi aucileblad dadgeba.

amasTan, saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobam

am siaSi Seyvanil adamianebze

garkveuli SezRudvebi

unda daawesos.

sxvaTa Soris, magnitskis sia-

Si putini ar SeuyvaniaT, miuxedavad

imisa, rom yvelam Zalian

kargad icis, ruseTSi politikur

procesebs putini warmar-

Tavs! rac Seexeba ivaniSvils, misi

sakiTxi mravali welia, dayenebulia

da amis Sesaxeb sazogadoebamac

icis.

_ ivaniSvilis sakiTxi sadaa

dayenebuli?

_ Salva naTelaSvilma ivaniSvilis

sakiTxi aSS-is senatsa da

kongresSi daayena da misi dosie

aSS-is finansTa saministros Sesabamis

departamentSic devs.

_ mere, amiT ra icvleba?

_ amaze reagireba kritikul

situaciaSi moxdeba. saerTod,

Cven gvinda, rom es sia qmediTi

iyos. masSi ivaniSvili da gaxaria

rom SeviyvanoT da maTze sanqciebi

dawesdes, es imis niSani

iqneba, rom dasavleTma saqarTvelosTan

diplomatiuri urTierToba

Sewyvitos!

_ Tqvens msjelobaSi logika,

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

cxadia, aris, magram sanqcire-

bulTa siaSi, magaliTad, SoTaZe

ratom ar SeiyvaneT, romelsac

sajaro Tanamdeboba, meored

mosvlis survilis miuxedavad,

jerac ar ukavia?

_ weRan SemTxveviT ar vTqvi,

20 ivnisis sia-meTqi, anu Cven aqcenti

20 ivnissa da mis Semdeg

ganviTarebul movlenebze gavakeTeT.

es sia muSavdeba da naxavT,

masSi vinaa Seyvanili da Ti-

Toeuli maTgani 20 ivnisTan

rogor aris dakavSirebuli.

_ aTvlis wertilad 20 ivnisi

ratom aiReT?

_ 20 ivniss reJimi yvelaze

sastikad moiqca _ mSvidobiani

momitingeebis, anu im adamianebis

sisxli daRvara, romlebmac

okupacia gaaprotestes! Tu mTavar

prokurorad meored daniSvnis

Semdeg SoTaZe am kurss

gaagrZelebs, am siaSi, bunebrivia,

isic aRmoCndeba!

_ sanqcirebulTa siaSi,

rogorc yuri movkari, sakreb-

ulos usafrTxoebis samsaxuris

ufrosi, suliko kedelaSvili

SeiyvaneT. 20 ivnisis movleneb-

`Cven gvinda, rom es sia qmediTi iyos. masSi

ivaniSvili da gaxaria rom SeviyvanoT da

maTze sanqciebi dawesdes, es imis niSani iqneba,

rom dasavleTma saqarTvelosTan

diplomatiuri urTierToba Sewyvitos!~

Si am adamianis brali ikveTeba?

_ xom giTxariT, rom siis Sedgenisas

aqcenti 20 ivnissa da mis

Semdeg ganviTarebul movlenebze

gavakeTeT. suliko kedelaSvili

ki, romelic sakrebulos usafrTxoebis

samsaxuris xelmZRvanelia

da gansakuTrebuli agresiiT

gamoirCeva _ Tavis uflebamosilebas

scildeba da am

siaSic swored amitomaa Seyvanili!

_ es sia opoziciaSi bzars

xom ar Seitans, miT umetes, rom

siis SedgenaSi „kanoni da samar-

Tali” ar monawileobs?

_ aranairi bzari! rac Seexeba

„kanonsa da samarTals”, imedi

maqvs, rom qalbatoni Tako amas

Rrmad gaaanalizebs da Sesabamis

daskvnebsac gamoitans! giTxariT

da kidev erTel gavimeoreb: Cveni

mizani oligarqiuli reJimis

damarcxebaa da gvinda, rom yvelaferi

es arCevnebis gziT

moxdes. siis Sedgena Cveni TviTmizani

ar aris. ase rom iyos, yvelas

SeviyvandiT _ ivaniSvilidan

dawyebuli, gaxariaTi damTavrebuli

da bednierebi viqnebodiT,

magram am siis datvirTva absoluturad

sxva ramea.

_ simarTle giTxraT, ver gav-

ige, es „sxva rame” ra aris?

_ saSualo rgolebi, romlebic

ukanono davalebebs asruleben,

kanonis moTxovnebs

scdebian da mSvidobiani moqalaqeebisa

Tu politikosebis

winaaRmdeg uxeS Zalas iyeneben.

isini unda warmoCindnen da

maTze sanqciebi ganxorcieldes,

Torem Tu umaRlesi Tanamdebobis

pirebs SeviyvanT, maSin es sia

am etapze araqmediTi gaxdeba.

geTanxmebiT, rom yvela ubedurebis

saTave ivaniSvilia, gaxaria,

farcxalaZe, TadumaZe Tu

kalaZe ki misi msaxvrali xelia,

magram yvelafer amis damarcxeba

am siiT ki ara, opoziciis

qmediTi nabijebiT unda moxdes.

es sia, ubralod, prevenciaa.

_ keTili, magram ar mgonia,

rom am siis gamo romelime

„qoci” SeSindes da ukanono

davalebebis Sesrulebaze uari

ganacxados. kidev erT Temas

unda Sevexo, batono giorgi,

romelic opoziciis poziciebs

ar amyarebs, anu mxedvelobaSi

maqvs mamuka xazaraZis „lelo”.

yvelam kargad viciT, rom jer

kidev weliwad-naxevris win xaz-

araZe mosaxleobas mouwodebda,

saprezidento arCevnebis meore

turSi salome zurabiSvil-

isTvis daeWira mxari. axla ki

„lelos” damfuZnebeli erT-

erTi yvelaze pirgamexebuli

opozicioneria, Tumca sazogadoebis

absolutur umravleso-

bas misi gulwrfelobis ar

sjera. mokled, xazaraZe da misnairebi

opoziciis imijs dar-

tymas xom ar ayeneben?

_ Tavisi poziciis nayofs xazaraZe

axla sasamarTloSi krefs,

anu man sakuTari Tavi daazarala.

_ e. i., SeiZleba CavTvaloT,

rom sistemis SeqmnaSi xazaraZem-

ac dado aguri, ara?

_ opozicias erTmaneTze mze

da mTvare ar amogvdis.

_ anu?

_ bevr rameze Cven gansxvavebuli

Sexeduleba gvaqvs, magram

opozicia erT magidasTan imitom

dajda, rom proporciul

arCevnebs mivaRwioT. proporciul

arCevnebze ivaniSvilma mxolod

mTeli eri ki ara, mTeli saerTaSoriso

sazogadoeba „gadaagdo”.

proporciuli arCevnebi erTi

Zalis mier xelisuflebis uzurpacias

gamoricxavs. hoda, xalxma

swored proporciuli arCevnebiT

unda gadawyvitos, parlamentSi

romeli politikuri Zala

sWirdeba. ai, Cveni TanamSromloba,

aqciebi da yvela is RonisZieba,

romelsac opozicia axorcielebs,

swored am mizans emsaxureba,

Torem imas aravin ambobs,

ariqa, erTmaneTze gadareulebi

varT da samisdRemCio fic-vercxliT

SeveduRabeTo. Cven, yvelas,

gansxvavebuli politikuri

platforma, ideologia gvaqvs

da saxelmwifos ganviTarebasac

Cveneulad vuyurebT! pirdapir

getyviT: oligarqia da msxvili

biznesi, romelic politikas ganagebs,

piradad CemTvis, miuRebelia.

_ damisabuTeT, ratom?

_ oligarqiam da msxvilma biznesma

politika SeiZleba, saku-

Tari miznebisTvis gamoiyenos da

amis naTeli magaliTi ivaniSvilia.

_ ivaniSvils ver gautoldeba,

magram oligarqis simptomebi

xazaraZesac aqvs. hoda, mis-

aRebi ratom aris?

_ axla Cveni saxelmwifo ise-

Ti didi safrTxis winaSe dgas,

rom yvelaferi es droebiT gverdiTaa

gaweuli da konkretul

sakiTxebze vTanamSromlobT!

aqamde Cven Soris mZime dapirispirebebic

arsebobda, magram

vimeoreb: dRes Cveni qveynis yofna-aryofnis

sakiTxi dgas da

swored aqedan gamomdinare vTanamSromlobT!

_ vnaxoT, es TanamSromloba

rogor damTavrdeba.

ise, batono giorgi, gaqvT

imedi, rom opozicia xelisuflebas

aiZulebs, rom demokratiuli

da samarTliani arCevne-

bi Caataros?

_ swori formulireba moaxdineT

_ diax, Cveni mizani demokratiuli,

samarTliani da mSvidobiani

arCevnebia, romliTac

arsebuli oligarqiuli sistemis

demontaJi unda moxdes! axali

wlis dReebi miilia da isev aqtiur

qmedebebze gadavalT, radgan

xelisufleba iZulebis re-

JimSi movaqcioT da proporciul

arCevnebze wamoviyvanoT

_ hoda, kiTxvaze mipasuxeT:

ra garantia gaqvT, rom „ocneba”

proporciul arCevnebze wa-

mova?

_ Tu ar wamova, ufro did

dartymas miiRebs.

_ anu?

_ Tu xelisufleba arCevnebis

gayalbebis gzas daadgeba da Zalauflebis

SenarCunebas ase Seecdeba,

maSin protestis ufro

mZlavr talRas miiRebs!

xalxis suverenuli uflebaa,

rom damoukidebeli saxelmwifo

hqondes da iseTi daqiravebuli

xelisufleba hyavdes, romelsac

airCevs! Tu vinme Seecdeba, rom

es suverenuli ufleba waarTvas,

maSin xalxisgan umZimes risxvas

daimsxurebs!

27


skandaluri interviu

opozicia „ocnebis” mxilebas

giorgi abaSiZe

saerTaSoriso asparezze iwyebs,

rac imas niSnavs, rom e. w. Sav sias

adgens, sadac Seyvanil Tanamdebobis pirebs, wesiT da rigiT,

dasavleTma garkveuli sanqciebi unda dauwesos. sanqciebi,

SesaZloa, xmamaRali naTqvamia, magram arsebobs molodini, rom

adamianebs, romlebic zemoxsenebul siaSi moxvdebian, minimum,

evropis qveynebSi gadaadgileba aekrZalebaT. am etapisTvis

„Sav siaSi” mxolod xelisuflebis dabali eSelonebis ramden-

ime iseTi warmomadgenelia Seyvanili, romelTa saxelebi da

gvarebic farTo sazogadoebas arafers eubneba. swored amitom

„Savi siis” SedgenaSi partia „kanoni da samarTali” ar monawileobs.

amasTan, Tako Carkvianis politikurma gundma opoziciis

is sakoordinacio sabWoc datova, romelic propor-

ciuli arCevnebis sakiTxze muSaobs.

arsebobs Tu ara garkveuli

uTanxmoeba opoziciis SigniT? _

am Temaze „qronika+“ „kanoni da

samarTlis” erT-erT liders,

irakli Rlonts esaubra. Cven imiTac

davinteresdiT, saparlamento

arCevnebSi „kanoni da samarTa-

li” damoukideblad gamova Tu

„Zala erTobaSiasTan” erTad iqne-

ba? am Temaze Rlontma saubari ar

isurva. samagierod, vrcel inter-

viuSi ramdenime skandaluri min-

iSneba gaakeTa da arc imis Tqmas

moerida, rom opoziciis calkeu-

li liderebi saqmis sxvisi xeliT

gakeTebas arian miCveulebi.

_ irakli, „kanoni da samarTa-

li” e. w. Sav sias, rbilad rom

vTqvaT, abulingebs. ra xdeba _

did opoziciur erTobas bzari

Seepara?

_ siamovnebiT gipasuxebT mizezebze,

ris gamoc e. w. Savi sia am

SinaarsiT miuReblad miviCnieT.

_ mainc, ra mizezebia?

_ daviwyoT imiT, rom Cven

aravis vabulingebT.

_ aba, ras akeTebT?

_ im pozicias vafiqsirebT,

romelic mosaxleobis interesebTan

maqsimaluradaa daaxloebuli.

saerTod, xalxis dakveTa xelisuflebis

marionetebisa da zonderebis

mxileba araa, rasac politikosebze

ukeT Jurnalistebi SesaniSnavad

akeTebT da amisTvis madlobas

geubnebiT. xalxis didi nawili

opoziciisgan met efeqtian da

zust moqmedebas iTxovs xelisuflebis

winaaRmdeg, romelic yoveldRiurad

iseT Sav laqebs qmnis,

rac qarTul interesebs gamousworebel

zians ayenebs da qveyana,

praqtikulad, daclilia _ qarTvelTa

migracia 2 milionamdea gazrdili

da maT mdgomareobas, vinc

jer kidev darCenilia, yvelani vxedavT.

mokled, romel Sav sias davuWiroT

mxari, romlis saTaveSic mTavari

figurebi ar arian? im Sav sias

davuWiroT mxari, romlis pirvel

nomrad uzurpatori ivaniSvili ar

figurirebs? Cveni kritikis mizani

opoziciis gaZlierebaa. kolegebma

unda gaacnobieron: mas Semdeg,

rac xalxis namdvili dakveTis Sesrulebas,

anu xelisuflebis damarcxebas

SevZlebT, kanonma im pirebis

Savi sia unda Seadginos, romelTac

saxelmwifos saxeliT braldebas

politikuri gavlenebisgan

daclili prokuratura wauyenebs

da, obieqturi gamoZiebis safuZvelze,

samarTliani sasamarTlos

gziT moxdeba rogorc xelisuflebis

mTavari figurantebis,

aseve maTi marionetebis mxileba da

samarTlebrivi pasuxisgeba. iciT,

ra xdeba?

_ ra?

_ vakvirdebi da aSkaraa, rom

bevri opoziciuri partia da lideri

saqmis sxvisi xeliT gakeTebas

mieCvia.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ ai, magaliTad, partiebis garkveuli

nawili Jurnalistebs zurgze

gawevT da imiT kmayofildebian,

roca mediiTa da presiT agorebul

sakiTxebze komentarebs

akeTeben, anu fiqroben, rom es sakmarisia,

magram ara, batonebo, es

tivtivia da ara _ funqcionireba.

zemoxsenebuli siac, Tavisi SinaarsiT,

am mocemulobasTan axlos

dgas, anu opoziciuri partiebi

qveynis dasavlel partniorebs im

pirTa nusxas awvdian, visac gadaadgilebis

SezRudvebi unda

daudginon.

_ mere amaSi cudi ra aris?

_ e. i. mavans aqac sxvisi xeliT

surs saqmis gakeTeba. qveynis SigniT

qveynis xsna Jurnalistebs miandes,

qveynis gareT ki _ ucxoel

partniorebs? aba, aq sad Cans am

opozicionerTa funqcia?

e. w. Savi siis figurantebs qveynis

dasavlelma partniorebma sanqciebi,

maT Soris, Tavisufali

gadaadgilebis SezRudva unda

daudginon, magram gvaviwydeba, rom

es arcTu martivi saqmea da Tuki

gvsurs, rom am saqmes qirurgiuli

sizustiT mivyveT, ki batono, magram

CavrToT avtoritetuli arasamTavrobo

organizaciebi, raTa

igive qveynis partniorebTan es sia

ise ar wardges, rogorc opoziciur

partiaTa subieqturi xedvis

produqti, aramed, rogorc qveyanaSi

moqmedi sazogadoebrivi da politikuri

klasis erToblivi Sexeduleba,

Tumca vimeoreb: am sias

mxolod maSin davuWerT mxars,

Tuki pirvel nomrad oligarqi da

mis karze mdgari xelis biWebi dasaxeldebian,

amis Semdeg ki _ sakanonmdeblo,

aRmasrulebel da sasamarTlo

xelisuflebaSi Canergili

yurmoWrili borotmoqmedebi.

_ gare damkvirveblisTvis ise

Cans, rom opozicia sakuTari

principebis erTguli araa. ase,

magaliTad, „Zala erTobaSia” mudmivad

prodasavlurobiT ape-

lirebda da irwmuneboda, rom

prorusuli orientaciis partie-

bTan saerTo arasodes araferi

eqneboda, Tumca prodasavluri

Zalebi nino burjanaZis gverdiT

mSvenivrad grZnoben Tavs. es or-

magi standarti araa?

_ opoziciur partiaTa gaer-

Tianeba, kerZod, „Zala erTobaSia”,

Tavidan bolomde proqarTul da

iluzoruli erToblioba, sadac

bevri ver gebulobs, roiali sad

dgas.

saprotesto muxts isic anadgurebs,

rom bevri opozicioneri

lideri telekompaniebSi xSiri vizitiT

kmayofilia da fiqrobs,

rom xalxTan ase ufro axlos dgas.

arada, saprotesto muxts is dabali

standarti amcirebs, romelsac

opozicia aseTi uprincipo er-

TianobiTa da svlebiT gamoxatavs.

sworad gamigeT: am nawilSi me da

Cemi gundi mesame pirSi vsaubrobT

da es principuli gadawyvetilebaa.

dRes Semdegi mocemuloba gvaqvs:

aravin aRar kamaTobs, rom xelisufleba

unda Seicvalos, magram Tu

opozicia xalxs maRal standarts

ver SevTavazebT da ver davarwmunebT,

rom es brZola pirdapir xalxs

ekuTvnis da TiToeuli opozicioneri

xalxis namdvili nebis gamomxatveli

varT, muxti ki ar daziandeba,

TviTon procesi Seva Cix-

Si, anu xalxs opoziciis mimarT

ndoba daekargeba, rasac oligarqi

da misi klani, teqnikuri da administraciuli

resursis gamoyenebiT,

marjved gamoiyenebs. amis

daSveba ki ar SeiZleba da swored

amitomac vambobT, rom meti efeqtianoba,

sizuste, siTamame da xalxTan

meti axlo kavSiria saWiro.

amas garda, mTavaria, saqarTvelos

TiToeuli moqalaqe davarwmunoT,

rom am brZolis Semoqmedi opozicia

ki ara, qveynis interesebia!

diax, xalxs simarTle Tamamad da

damajereblad unda vuTxraT, rom

Cveni mizania, biZinas xelisufleba

mravalpartiuli politikuri

speqtriT CavanacvloT, raTa parlamentSi

meti pluralisturi sivrce

da demokratia iyos. isic saTqmelia,

rom biZina ivaniSvils mixeil

saakaSviliT an romelime sxva

maRalreitinguli lideriT ar vcvliT.

ufro xmamaRla unda davadeklariroT,

rom ivaniSvils mravalpartiuli

koaliciuri ZaliT

vcvliT, sadac yvela xalxis mier

miniWebuli mandatis farglebSi

unda iyos!

_ irakli, gulwrfeli iyavi da

Tqvi: opoziciidan vinmeze xom ar

gaqvs eWvi, rom farulad „oc-

nebasTan” TanamSromlobs?

_ xelisuflebasTan mokavSireoba

mravali formiT xdeba. erTerTi

pirdapiri garigeba politikuri

angarebaa, meore ki _ ara-

irakli Rlonti:

`bevri

opoziciuri

lideri saqmis

sxvisi xeliT

gakeTebas

mieCvia!~

dasavlur politikur platformaze

myarad mdgari erTianobaa da

amaSi vinmes mxridan eWvis Setana an

mizanmimarTuli qmedebaa, an _ sibriyve.

uaxloes warsulSi am gaer-

Tianebam yvelaze nayofieri opoziciuri

asparezoba SeZlo, rac

cifrebSia gamoxatuli da rac

sakmaod mimzidvelad gamoiyureba.

gulwrfeli rom viyo, piradad me,

irakli Rlonts, ufro meti moTxovnebi

maqvs igive am gaerTianebasTan,

radgan sakmaod TviTkritikuli

var da mimaCnia, rom am

formatisgan ufro meti aqtiuroba

da sizustea saWiro, raTa originaluroba

da ar daikargos da mosaxleobis

maRali ndobis xarisxi

SeinarCunos da ganaviTaros.

_ sxvaTa Soris, isic, albaT,

mxolod qarTuli opoziciis

Taviseburebaa, rom taim-autebs

iRebs. piradad me STabeWdileba

meqmneba, rom saprotesto muxtis

mizanmimarTuli dasusteba xdeba.

vcdebi, irakli?

_ da vinmem ganacxada, rom taimauts

acxadebs? amis Sesaxeb ar msmenia.

axali weli iyo da am dros

piketireba da quCis saprotesto

aqciebi saWiro araa, Tumca, albaT,

naxeT, bevri opozicioneri axal

wels parlamentis win Sexvda imis

simboluri ilustrirebisTvis,

rom brZola grZeldeba da manam ar

dasruldeba, vidre xalxi da qveyana

klanisa da rusuli uRlisgan

ar ganTavisufldeba. ai, rac Seexeba

saprotesto muxts, is formatebi,

romelic sazogadoebis mxardaWeras

ar iwvevs, namdvilad

azianebs. magaliTad, es arafrism-

Tqmeli e. w. Savi sia da ideologiur

simyares gacdenil partiaTa

`maSin, roca me da sxvebi aqtiurad

vupirispirdebodiT ruseTs saqarTveloSi,

korufcias, kriminals, nepotizms, ironiul

gadawyvetilebebs, xalxis mizanmimarTul

gaRaribebasa da oligarqs, batoni mamuka Ria

Tu konspiraciul vizitebs awyobda am

ukanasknelTan. Tuki me 2012 wels, axalgazrda

kaci, vxedavdi rusul safrTxes òcnebis~

saxiT, ratom ver dainaxa es am adamianma?

cxadia, dainaxa, magram maSin misTvis ufro

mniSvnelovani biznesi iyo~

28

28 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


irakli RlontTan

pirdapiri msaxureba. mirCevnia,

arapirdapir mokavSireobaze visaubro,

Torem pirdapir mokav-

Sireebs xalxi isedac cnobs da

vimedovneb, yvela subieqtis axlandeli

gadawyvetilebis lustrireba

moxdeba. saerTod, gansakuTrebiT

patara qveynebSi SeuZlebelia,

rom vinmem rame damalos. amitom

mirCevnia, arapirdapir mokavSireobaze

visaubro. am tipis kavSiri

maSin yalibdeba, roca opozicioneri

zustad ver aanalizebs process,

xalxis nebisgan Sors dgas da

imiT kmayofildeba, rom politikur

toqSouebSi Cans da kvlevebSic

Tavi damkvidrebuli aqvs. ai, esaa

yvelaze didi problema. zogadad,

nebismier saqmeSi saWiroa dauRalavi

Sroma, yoveldRiuri fiqri

progresze, siaxleze. tyuilad ar

vTqvi, rom „Zala erTobaSiam”, romelic

Zlieri da rezultaturi

erTianobaa, originaluroba ar

unda dakargos, radgan es gamousworebeli

TviTziani iqneba. roca

xalxi Sengan yoveldRiur problemebze

aqcentirebas iTxovs da roca

emigracia, sikvdilianoba, korufcia,

nepotizmi da komunalur

servisebze fasebi maRalia, amas-

Tan, bavSvic SimSilobs da moxucic,

aseve gazrdilia tarifi

transportze, sawvavze, samedicino

servisebze, medikamentebze da

daucveloba Tu dausjeloba ukve

standartia, ai, aq unda iyos opozicia

maxvilgonieri da swored am

Temebze unda axdendes aqcentirebas,

raTa xalxi darwmundes, rom

opozicia mis xedvebTan TanxvedraSia.

aba, Tu opozicioneric im

standarts sTavazobs, rasac xelisufali,

xalxma ra qnas?

sxvaTa Soris, xelisuflebis

wisqvilze im opozicionerTa

poziciebic asxams wyals, romlebsac

maRali ndoba aqvT, magram maTi

quCaSi an televiziiT danaxva

xalxs aRizianebs. amis miuxedavad,

isini yvela Zvel Tu axal resurss

iyeneben, rom tribunasa Tu

televiziiT yelmoRerebulni gamoCndnen.

es swori midgoma ki ara,

sakuTari Tavisa da qveynis Ralatia.

diax, bevri e. w. lideri xalxs

Zalian mobezrda da axal kadrebs,

axal liderebs iTxovs! didi bodiSi,

magram liderebi cidan ar

cviva, anu saprotesto muxts isic

azianebs, roca zogierTi yvela

resurss iyenebs sakuTari TviTrealizebisTvis,

axalgazrdebs asparezs

ar uxsni da yvelgan eCxirebi,

raTa poziciebi SeinarCuno. imedia,

qadags aravin damiwyebs, rom

liderma es mojadoebuli wre

unda gaarRvios da asparezi moipovos.

es Teoriaa, rac bevrjer

vcade. sirTuleebi Cems politikur

saqmianobas axlda da, principSi,

axlac asea, Tumca bevri

Tanatolisgan gansxvavebiT, ar

viRlebi da brZolas vagrZeleb!

yovelTvis erTi pozicia mqonda:

vinmes sateliti ver viqnebi! Tu am

tipis kavSiri mogwonT, Tqven

gaxdiT Cemi sateliti!

_ zogadad, gasagebia, rom yve-

laferze _ kargi iqneba Tu cudi,

rac qveyanaSi xdeba, pasuxismgebe-

li xelisuflebaa, magram mgonia,

rom garkveuli pasuxismgebloba

opoziciasac ekisreba. Seni gadasaxedidan

razea opozicia pasux-

ismgebeli?

_ Cemi gadasaxedidan, patara

`garwmunebT, kremlSi Seqmnili

krizisi, siRaribe ruseTSi da

kremlis Sovinizmi saqarTvelosTvis

male pozitiviT dasruldeba!~

qveynis mimarT maRali pasuxismgebloba

xelisuflebasac aqvs da _

opoziciasac. TiToeuli politikosi

am Sinaarsis azrs unda atarebdes,

Torem politikur TeoriebSi

ra weria, es meorexarisxovania.

diax, xelisufleba, pirvel rigSi,

valdebulia xalxis winaSe, magram

roca xedav, rom Seni xelisufali

valdebulebiT kavSirSi sakuTar

xalxTan ki ara, kremlTanaa, opoziciam

yvelaferi unda gaakeTos,

rom kremlis figurireba dasruldes

da es mxolod maSin iqneba

SesaZlebeli, roca misi nebis gamtari

xelisuflebis mmarTveloba

dasruldeba! Cemi saxelmwifoebrivi

xedvebidan da damokidebulebebidan

gamomdinare, dRes yvela

pasuxismgeblobas vakisreb opozicias,

cxadia, aq sakuTar Tavsac

moviazreb _ 2012 wlidan moyolebuli,

roca sxvebs eZinaT an am xelisuflebis

karze idgnen, me aqciebs

ise vaorganizebdi, rogorc

SemeZlo da gamomdioda. dRes, am

situaciaSi, opoziciam unda vikisroT

pasuxismgebloba yvela

sirTulis daZlevaze, rac am klanis

demontaJiT unda daiwyos!

_ Cven, yvelam viciT, rom pro-

porciuli arCevnebi demokratiis

kuTxiT wingadadgmuli nabijia,

magram irakli, adamianebs, rom-

lebsac SiaT, arCevnebis Catareb-

is wesi naklebad ainteresebT.

hoda, gana, ukeTesi ar iqneba, rom

opoziciam strategia Secvalos

da wina planze ufro populis-

turi Temebi wamowios?

_ opozicia xalxTan ufro axlos

rom iyos da mxolod televiziiT

ki ara, pirdapir, erTierTze

esaubrebodes mas, merwmuneT,

es SekiTxva dRis wesrigidan

moixsneboda, magram radgan es

kiTxva aqtualuria, isev Cvens, anu

opoziciis sisustes vxedav, rom

sworad ver agvixsnia, ramdenad

mniSvnelovania saarCevno sistema

`kremlis msaxuri e. w. prezidentis

ìntronizaciaSi~ wvlili mamuka xazaraZem

Seitana da amis Camorecxva advilad ar gamouva!

sxvaTa Soris, es qalbatoni, Cemi azriT,

saqarTveloSi rusuli specsamsaxurebis

erTguli elCia. mokled, kritikuli var mamukas

mimarT, magram yvela opoziconers, maT Soris,

gvian gaRviZebulsac, warmatebas vusurveb!~

da swored amiT iwyeba moqalaqeebis

winaSe mdgari yvela sirTulis

daZleva!

_ ise, gulwrfelad rom vTq-

vaT, xalxs iseTi opoziconerebis

ar sjera, rogoric, magaliTad,

mamuka xazaraZea. „lelosTan”

kiTxvebi Senc xom ar gaqvs?

_ ara, ar maqvs, radgan me pauxebi

maqvs, „leloSi” bevr adamians

did pativs vcem, iq vxedav saintereso

da progresul axalgazrda

potenciur liderebs, romlebmac

araerTi mimarTulebiT

miaRwies warmatebebs, magram am

adamianebs batoni mamukas faqtori

naklebad saxarbielo mdgomareobaSi

ayenebs.

_ ratom?

_ maSin, roca me da sxvebi aqtiurad

vupirispirdebodiT ruseTs

saqarTveloSi, korufcias, kriminals,

nepotizms, ironiul gadawyvetilebebs,

xalxis mizanmimarTul

gaRaribebasa da oligarqs, batoni

mamuka Ria Tu konspiraciul

vizitebs awyobda am ukanasknel-

Tan. Tuki me 2012 wels, axalgazrda

kaci, vxedavdi rusul safrTxes

„ocnebis” saxiT, ratom ver dainaxa

es am adamianma? cxadia, dainaxa,

magram maSin misTvis ufro mniSvnelovani

biznesi iyo. is droc magondeba,

roca gzis fulic ki ar

gvqonda axalgazrdebs, ar vmuSaobdiT,

ar gveqonda Semosavalis wyaro

da xSirad fexiT davdiodiT

aqciebidan aqciebze, diplomatebTan,

brifingebs vawyobdiT da

xom ar ggoniaT, rom vinmes vinmeze

naklebad SegveZlo pirad interesebze

morgeba da konformistul

sivrceSi yofna? rogor ggoniaT,

„dalagebebi” didi sirTulea am

qveyanaSi? ubralod, arsebobs Sublis

ZarRvi da arsebobs principi,

romelsac zogi Ralatobs da zogi

_ ara. an xar lideri an ara da ar

mjera droebiTi liderebis! batonma

xazaraZem Tavad axsena, rom

ruseTidan valdebulebebis gareSe

SeuZlebelia kapitalis gatana. Tu

amdeni ici da gesmis, raRas esaubrebi

am kacs amerikul proeqtze

maSin, roca pirdapir geubneba, rom

ar esmis, ra unda aSS-s Sav zRvaSi?

rac mTavaria: kremlis msaxuri e.

w. prezidentis „intronizaciaSi”

wvlili mamuka xazaraZem Seitana

da amis Camorecxva advilad ar gamouva!

sxvaTa Soris, es qalbatoni,

Cemi azriT, saqarTveloSi rusuli

specsamsaxurebis erTguli

elCia. mokled, kritikuli var mamukas

mimarT, magram yvela opoziconers,

maT Soris, gvian gaRviZebulsac,

warmatebas vusurveb!

_ zogadad, xom ar movida dro,

rom politikaSi sruliad axali

saxeebi movidnen?

_ eg dro didi xania, mosulia,

ager, ramdenime dRis win vnaxe igive

„lelos” erT-erTi warmomadgenlis,

daviT usufaSvilis gancxadeba,

rom momaval xelisufleba-

Si mzadaa, kvlav parlamentis

Tavmjdomare gaxdes. Zalian gama-

Riziana am damokidebulebam! ar

mesmis, Tavad ar uqmniT es momxveWeloba

da „nagloba” uxerxulobas?!

axali kadrebis, potenciuri

liderebis gareSe fass dakargavs

nebismieri procesi da es unda gaigos

yvela opoziciurma subieqtma.

opoziciaSi ai, aseTi adamianebi

arian xelisuflebis pirdapiri Tu

arapirdapiri dasayrdenebi

_ yovelive zemoTqmulidan ga-

momdinare, opozicias ra meqa-

nizmi aqvs, rom 2020-is arCevnebi

„ocnebam” ar gaayalbos?

_ jer arCevnebamde mivideT...

mgoni, vCqarobT. meqanizmi gulwrfeloba

da, vimeoreb, xalxTan axlos

yofna da qveynis dasavlel

partniorebTan meti muSaobaa.

_ kidev erTi Tema: vladimir

putinma mTavroba gadaayena. irak-

li, Seni azriT, es saqarTveloze

ra gavlenas iqoniebs?

_ garwmunebT, kremlSi Seqmnili

krizisi, siRaribe ruseTSi da

kremlis Sovinizmi saqarTvelosTvis

male pozitiviT dasruldeba!

_ „endiais” kvlevebiT, kaxa

kalaZe „ocnebis” yvela liderze

reitingulia, es imas xom ar niSnavs,

rom Tbilisis mers „ocneba-

Si” problemebi Seeqmneba?

_ ar vici, ver getyvi... eWviani

da kompleqsebiani kacia biZina,

RmerTma uwyis, am faqtze rogor

ireagirebs.

_ rac Seexeba momaval saparlamento

arCevnebs, „kanoni da sa-

marTali” damoukideblad gamova

Tu „Zala erTobaSiasTan” erTad

iqneba?

_ amaze komentars axla ar gavakeTeb,

radgan gundSi siRrmiseuli

msjeloba ar gvqonia. Cven vmuSaobT,

vcdilobT, xalxTan axlos

viyoT da jer kidev bevri gvaqvs

samuSao. erTs ki anonsad getyviT:

„kanoni da samarTali” rusuli interesebis

gamtar erT partiasTan

erTad ar iqneba da amis Sesaxeb

Tavmjdomarem, qalbatonma Tako

Carkvianmac, detalurad ganmarta.

_ sxvaTa Soris, „endiais” bolo

kvlevaSi „kanoni da samarTali”

ver moxvda. amas riT xsni?

_ „kanoni da samarTali” axalgazrda

politikuri Zalaa, Tan

rogorc giTxariT, jer isev bevri

gvaqvs samuSao, vmuSaobT da Sedegebic

iqneba.

_ bolos, irakli, ra uSvelis

am qveyanas?

_ korufciis Semcireba, nepotizmis

sircxvilad qceva da kriminalizeba,

progresuli axalgazrda

liderebis qveynis samsaxurSi

Cayeneba, mokekluce, fuqsavati

politikosebis arenidan gawveva da

meti demokratia. xelisuflebas

xalxi unda marTavdes da ara xelisufleba

_ xalxs!

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

29


`biZina ivaniSvili aslan

„qarTuli ocneba” mesame vadiT

Sorena marsagiSvili

gegmavs xelisuflebaSi mosvlas,

599 92 16 22

opozicia ki amuSavebs strate-

gias, romliTac Semodgomidan

qveyana unda marTon. maT eWvic ki ar eparebaT, rom ivaniSvi-

lis partia damarcxdeba. marcxi im SemTxvevaSic iqneba, Tu

arCevnebi proporciuli wesiT ar Catardeba. samomavlo gegmebze

opoziciis nawili evropaSi wavida mixeil saakaSvilT-

an sasaubrod. maT Soris iyo murman dumbaZec. „qronika+”-

sTan saubarSi dumbaZe ambobs, rom saakaSvils momavalSic Sex-

vdeba, _ mis gareSe saqarTveloSi xelisuflebis cvlileba

SeuZlebelia. misive TqmiT, qveynidan gadaxvewilma mesame

prezidentma biZina ivaniSvili ukve daamarcxa. dumbaZe dar-

wmunebulia, rom es marcxi oficialurad Semodgomaze

gaformdeba. xolo Tu ivaniSvili marcxis aRiarebaze uars

ityvis, mas aslan abaSiZis bedis gaziareba mouwevs.

murman dumbaZe:

`jer arCevnebamde

Soria da

saakaSvilma ukve

daamarcxa

ivaniSvili~

ra akavSirebs ivaniSvils aba-

SiZesTan? ras sTxovs dasavle-

Ti „qarTul ocnebas”? ratom

aris maTTvis ufro momgebiani

arCevnebis proporciuli wesiT

Catareba? ra gegmebi SeimuSaves

mixeil saakaSvilTan erTad? ra

axsovs xalxs warsulidan? ris

daviwyeba ar SeiZleba? _ am Te-

mebze „emsaxure saqarTvelos”

lideri murman dumbaZe gve-

saubreba:

_ Tqven „nacionaluri moZraobis”

wevrebTan erTad SexvdiT

mixeil saakaSvils. Tu sai-

dumlo ar aris, raze esaubreT

qveynis mesame prezidents?

_ im Sexvedras mxolod „nacionalebi”

ar daswrebian. iq sxvadasxva

opoziciuri partiis warmomadgenlebic

iyvnen. es Zalian

saintereso da nayofieri Sexvedra

iyo. 2016 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebis Semdeg damebada

azri, rom saqarTveloSi xelisuflebis

cvlileba mixeil saakaSvilis

gareSe SeuZlebeli iyo,

radganac saqarTveloSi yvelaze

meti mxardamWeri mis partias

hyavs. ivaniSvilis gaSvebaSi es

adamianebi mniSvnelovan rols

Seasruleben. es ar aris pirveli

SemTxveva, roca mixeil saakaSvils

Sevxvdi. Cven 2018 wlis saprezidento

arCvnebis winac SevxvedrivarT

erTmaneTs. maSin me

gaerTianebul opoziciaSi viyavi

ukve.

_ rogori iyo Tqveni pirve-

li Sexvedra? ar gagiWirdaT im

adamianisTvis xelis CamorTme-

va, romelmac 26 maisis aqciis

darbevis gadawyvetileba mi-

iRo? 2011 wlis 26 maiss Tqven

sastikad gagiswordnen saakaSvi-

lis zonderebi.

_ ar gamWirvebia. sxva Tu araferi,

saakaSvilamde bevrad adre

CamovarTvi xeli biZina ivaniSvils,

radgan mimaCnda, rom „nacionaluri

moZraoba” aucileblad

unda wasuliyo, amas ki ivaniSvilis

gareSe ver gavakeTebdiT.

_ ivaniSvili 26 maisis dar-

bevasTan ra SuaSia?

_ biZina ivaniSvili darbevis

mxardamWeri iyo. is mxars uWerda

2007 wlis 7 noembris darbevasac.

2011 wlis 26 maiss, roca me

aqciaze videqi, is saakaSvils ukravda

taSs. roca „qarTuli ocnebis”

Seqmna gadawyda, Cems TavT-

an didi brZola ar damWirvebia,

rom ivaniSvils Sevxvedrodi.

aseve iyo saakaSvilTan Sexvedrac.

mimaCnia, rom cvlilebebia

saWiro, rac mesame prezidentis

gareSe ar gamova.

_ da amitom apatieT mas 26

maisi? daiviwyeT is darbeva?

_ me 26 maisis darbeva ar damviwyebia,

magram, amasTan, vacnobiereb,

_ opoziciis konsolidacia

aucilebelia da isic kargad

vici, rom saakaSvilis gareSe

arsebuli xelisuflebis Secvla

SeuZlebelia. am SemTxvevaSi Cemi

piradi grZnobebi meorexarisxovania.

mTavaria, qveyana rogori

gziT wava. Tu is ganviTardeba,

sxvebTan erTad mec kargad viqnebi,

ganviTareba Tu ar iqneba,

verc me viqnebi kargad da verc

_ sxva. ase rom, saakaSvilTan Sexvedris

dros warsulze ar mifiqria.

sxva strategia da sxva

gegmebi mqonda.

_ ra strategiaze saubrobT?

_ romliTac opoziciam unda

imoqmedos. CvenTan xelisuflebis

damarcxeba maSin aris Sesa-

Zlebeli, rodesac opozicia gaerTianebas

axerxebs. ase moxda

SevardnaZis dros, ase iyo, saakaSvili

roca gavuSviT da saqmes

iseTi piri uCans, ivaniSvilsac

erTiani ZalebiT gavistumrebT.

2018 wlis arCevnebis pirvel

turSi opoziciam, praqtikulad,

mougo „qarTul ocnebas”, magram

meore turSi miviReT is prezidenti,

romelic gvyavs.

mixeil saakaSvilTan Semodgomaze

dagegmil arCevnebze visaubreT.

ganvixileT yvela detali,

yvela niuansi. araa gamoricxuli,

rom uaxloes xanebSi kidev

SevxvdeT mas. mimaCnia, swored

mas unda SevuTanxmoT yvela

detali, radganac is qarTuli

politikis faqtoria. gansakuTrebiT

mis amomrCevels unda

mivaqcioT yuradReba, romelic

ramdenime aseuli aTasia.

_ TqviT, yvela niuansi da

detali ganvixileTo da Segi-

ZliaT, ufro dawvrilebiT

gviTxariT, raze saubrobdiT?

_ aq dasamali araferia. Sexvedra

ramdenime dRe mimdinareobda

da bevr rameze visaubreT.

Cveni mTavari salaparako Tema

„qarTuli ocnebis” damarcxeba

ar yofila. ufro imaze vsaubrobdiT,

ra iqneba xelisuflebis

Secvlis Semdeg.

_ ukve darwmunebuli xarT,

rom xelisuflebas SecvliT?

_ biZina ivaniSvili da „qarTuli

ocneba!” ukve dasrulebulia.

es Semodgomaze oficialurad

gaformdeba, Tu manamde riggareSe

arCevnebis Catareba ar gaxda

saWiro. aqedan gamomdinare,

sworad viqceviT, imaze rom vsaubrobT,

ra unda gavakeToT, roca

xelisufleba Seicvleba. Cveni

azriT, pirvel rigSi, saqarTvelos

im moqalaqeebs unda gavu-

CinoT samSobloSi dabrunebis

survili, romlebic sazRvargareT

arian gadaxvewili lukmapuris

saSovnelad. Cvens qveyanas

Zalian didi perspeqtiva

aqvs. amis maSinac mjeroda, roca

saakaSvilis oponenti viyavi da

amis axlac mjera, roca masTan

erTad opoziciaSi var. saqarTvelo

imsaxurebs, iyos namdvili

evropuli qveyana. Cven mzad varT

nebismieri gamowvevisTvis.

Tu biZina ivaniSvili 2019

wlis 24 ivnisis danapirebs Seasrulebs

da is gadava proporciul

saarCevno sistemaze, es, pirvel

rigSi, misTvis iqneba kargi.

Tu arCevnebi arsebuli, Sereuli

sistemiT Catardeba, maSin is yvelafers

dakargavs. amas, rogorc

gamocdili politikosi, ise

`2016 wlis saparlamento arCevnebis Semdeg

damebada azri, rom saqarTveloSi

xelisuflebis cvlileba mixeil saakaSvilis

gareSe SeuZlebeli iyo, radganac

saqarTveloSi yvelaze meti mxardamWeri mis

partias hyavs. ivaniSvilis gaSvebaSi es

adamianebi mniSvnelovan rols Seasruleben~

veubnebi „ocnebis” liders. misgan

gansxvavebiT Zalian didi

xania, rac politikaSi var. „ocnebis”

liderma arc Tavad icis

da, albaT, arc sxvebi eubnebian,

Tu ra safrTxe SeiZleba Seuqmnas

mas Sereuli sistemiT arCevnebis

Catarebam.

Sereuli sistema iseTia, sadac

gamarjvebuli Zala yvelasa

da yvelafers Seisrutavs. „qarTulma

ocnebam” ise gaafuWa saqme,

rom maT aravin miscems xmas.

xalxi opoziciis sasargeblod

gaakeTebs arCevans. Sesabamisad,

opozicia Seisrutavs yvelafers.

is daakompleqtebs parlaments,

mTavrobas, gadainacvlebs municipalitetebSi.

biZinas „ocneba”

mwared damarcxdeba! SeiZleba,

saerTodac gaqres politikuri

asparezidan. arCevnebi proporciuli

sistemiT Tu Catarda,

„ocnebas” Sansi aqvs, raRac xmebi

aiRos da politikaSi darCes.

ivaniSvils es ar esmis, rac misi

problemaa. mTavaria, rom Cven

swor gzas vadgavarT. opoziciis

taqtikuri monaxazi da gegma

ar icvleba. aqciebi da piketebi

gagrZeldeba. Cven isev davdgebiT

quCaSi da moviTxovT, rom

xelisuflebam danapirebi Seasrulos.

gavagrZelebT urTier-

Tobas da konsultaciebs dasavleTTan.

gansakuTrebiT im qveynebTan,

visac surs, rom saqar-

TveloSi demokratiuli arCevnebi

Catardes.

_ piketebi da aqciebi gagr-

Zeldebao da cota xom ar dagagviandaT

opozicias protes-

tis ganaxleba?. ardadegebi

raRac Zalian gagigrZeldaT.

aman sazogadoebaSi ukmayofile-

ba gamoiwvia da eWvebic gaaCina.

_ ardadegebi gagrZelda, magram

es Cveni brali ar aris. sazogadoebas

saeWviano araferi

aqvs. saqarTveloSi am periodSi

arc saparlamento cxovreba aris

aqtiuri da Cveni aqciebi efeqtiani

ar iqneboda. ianvris mesame

dekadaSi regionebSi ramdenime

aqcia gaimarTeba. didi aqciis

TariRic gamocxaddeba,

romelic dedaqalqSi Catardeba.

icodes „ocnebam”, rom aqciebis

fonze mouwevs muSaoba. maT pasuxi

unda agon xalxis gadagdebisTvis.

qarTveli kaci bevr

rames aitans, magram sityvis gatexas

aravis apatiebs, maT Soris,

arc biZina ivaniSvils.

mniSvnelovania is faqti, rom

CvenTan erTad danapirebis Sesrulebas

iTxovs dasavleTic.

maTTvis sulerTi aRar aris,

rogor Catardeba saqarTveloSi

arCevnebi. am dReebSi dado fici

saqarTveloSi aSS-is axalma elCma,

romelmac pirveli is Tqva,

rom saqarTvelo normaluri da

demokratiuli arCevnebis Casatareblad

unda iyos mzado. es

xelisuflebis misamarTiT gakeTebuli

Zalian seriozuli

mesijia, rom „qarTul ocnebas”

arCevnebis gasayalbeblad xeli

ar waucdes. xelisufleba amtkicebs,

rom maT xalxSi didi mxardaWera

aqvT. maSin yvelaze

metad maT unda awyobdeT arCevnebis

demokratiulad Catareba.

Catardes demokratiuli

arCevnebi, dae gaimarjvos iman,

visac xalxi uWers mxars.

_ darwmunebuli xarT, rom

aseT SemTxvevaSi xalxi „qarTul

ocnebas” ar dauWers mxars?

_ eWvic ar mepareba. „ocnebam”

arc erTi danapirebi ar Seasrula.

maTi mosvlis Semdeg siRaribem

da kriminalma moimata.

imis magivrad, problemebi moagvaros,

xelisufleba abdaubdobs.

yovel sam-oTx TveSi axal premiers

gviniSnaven. es qveynis sta-

30

30 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


abaSiZes saidumlod Sexvda~

bilurobaze uaryofiT gavlenas

axdens. amas dasavleTSi Zalian

cudad aRiqvamen.

xalxs mobezrda aseTi yofa.

xalxi ambobs, gvirCevnia, movides

stabiluri xelisufleba, romelic

4 wlis manZilze stabilurad

SeZlebs qveynis marTvas. 4

wlis Tavze konkurentuli wesiT

an darCes xelisuflebaSi, an

im ZaliT Seicvalos, romelic

masze ueTesi iqneba. jer arCevnebamde

Soria da saakaSvilma

ukve daamarcxa ivaniSvili. imitom

borgavs es ukanaskneli. „endiais”

bolo reitingebs Tu daakvirdebiT,

„ocnebis” lideri bevrad

CamorCeba mesame prezidents.

mas uswrebs is kaci, romelic

skaipiT ekontaqteba Tavis

partiasa da xalxs. simarTle Tu

gindaT, es ar mixaria. es qveynisTvis

kargi ar aris.

_ ratom ar gixariaT?

_ saxelmwifosTvis cudia,

roca qveynis mmarTvels reitingSi

ugebs is kaci, romelic

2013 wlis niembridan saqarTveloSi

aRar yofila. merCivna, ivaniSvils

moego, magram miSam ajoba.

simaRliT da nabijebSi ki ar

ajoba, aramed daamarcxa tempSi,

ganviTarebaSi, qveynisTvis perspeqtivis

SeqmnaSi, siRaribis da-

ZlevaSi, politikur reformebsa

da kidev bevr rmeSi. sabednierod,

saqarTvelos moqalaqeebs

es yvelaferi axsovT da amitomac

damarcxda ivaniSvili arCevnebamde.

_ saqarTvelos moqalaqeebs

2007 wlis 7 noemberi da 2011

wlis 26 maisic axsovT.

_ Zalian kargia, rom axsovT

da es arc arasdros unda

dagvaviwydes. es TariRebi arc

mixeil saakaSvils unda davaviwyoT,

yovelTvis unda SevaxsenoT.

amave dros, arc 2019 wlis 20

ivnisi unda daviviwyoT. „qarTuli

ocneba” am dRes damTavrda.

arc girgvliani unda daviviwyoT,

magram roca mas gavixsenebT,

iqve unda vaxsenoT, rogor moikla

policiis ganyofilebidan

gamosulma 15 wlis mozardma

Tavi. gardacvalebebSi ki ar unda

vejibroT erTmaneTs, aramed

imaSi, qveynisTvis vin gaakeTa

ukeTesi.

Cvens xalxs axsovs, rogor

gamovZveriT wlebis winaT Cabnelebuli

da Casvrili qveynidan:

qurduli samyarodan gamovediT,

korufcia damarcxda, ganviTarebis

tempi Zalian maRali iyo,

saerTaSoriso sazogadoebam

gvcno, uamravi ucxouri investicia

Semovida, brendebi aSenda

saqarTveloSi, qarTvelebs axsovT

rabaTi, mestia, siRnaRi...

kargi gvaxsovs, magram mxolod

warsuliT ar unda vicxovroT.

win unda gavixedoT da momavalze

vifiqroT. momavali cvlilebebsa

da opoziciaSia. amayad

SemiZlia vTqva, rom uaxloes

momavalSi didi politikuri reformebis

momswre gavxdebiT.

erTi didi garRveva dagvWirdeba

da 5 weliwadSi aRmosavleT

ùtyuari informacia maqvs, rom 1992-1993 wlebSi ivaniSvili Carteruli reisiT

ruseTidan orjer Camofrinda baTumSi da orjer Sexvda aslan abaSiZes. es

aslan abaSiZis zeobis xana gaxlavT. Cven maSin misi opozicia viyaviT da mas or

rames vedavebodoT: es iyo didZali narkotikisa da didZali iaraRis Semotana

aWaraSi. erTic da meorec man ruseTidan Semoitana. narkotikebi da iaraRi

aslan abaSiZem Tavis mxardamWerebs dauriga~

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

evropis qveynebs ekonomikaSi unda

davewioT. saqarTvelos amis

perspeqtiva aqvs. saqarTvelos

mosaxleoba imsaxurebs kargad

cxovrebas.

_ Tqven „ocnebis” erT-erTi

lideri iyaviT. iciT maTi Sida

samzareulo da maTzec gkiTxavT

raRacebs. ukan rom abruneben

wasul Cinosnebs, es ras niSnavs?

xalxi ar hyavs ivaniSvils?

_ am mobrunebis serias Tvals

vadevneb da roca vxedav, rom

igive saxeebi brundebian ukan,

aWaris regionis mmarTveli aslan

abaSiZe maxsendeba. mas hqonda

mmarTvelobis aseTi stili.

viRacas jer daawinaurebda, mere

gaagdebda, mere daabrunebda da

kidev ufro daawinaurebda.

ivaniSvili aslan abaSiZis prototipia.

isini TiTqmis arafriT

gansxvavdebian erTmaneTisgan

ar varga es sistema, ara! Cveni

amocanaa stabiluroba da ganvi-

Tareba. aba, ase sad gagonila? _

gayara adamianebi da axla zogi

daabruna, zogis dabrunebas momavalSi

apirebs. isic ki ar viciT,

ratom gauSva wina premierebi.

ivaniSvilis msgavsi adamianebi

politikas ver Seqmnian. politika

imaT unda Seqmnan, visac

saxelmwifoze ufiqria. arc is

esmiT, ra aris konkurencia. ase

rom, maTgan araferi gamova. maTi

ambavi naklebad mainteresebs, samwuxaro

isaa, rom es yvelaferi

qveyanaze uaryofiTad aisaxeba.

_ es pirveli SemTxveva araa,

roca Tqven aslan abaSiZes Sead-

areT ivaniSvili. erTxel isic ki

TqviT, rom ivaniSvili abaSiZe-

saviT daamTavrebso.

_ am mesijs mas yoveli aqciidan

vugzavni. am interviudanac

veubnebi, rom aslan abaSiZesaviT

daamTavrebs, Tu gons ar moegeba.

ar ifiqroT, rom is televizors

ar uyurebs an gazeTebs ar

kiTxulobs, an imas, rac socialur

qselSi iwereba, kiTxulobs,

Tan Zalian aqtiurad. is sakuTar

Tavze raRac miTebs igonebs.

amiT unda, sazogadoebas aCvenos,

rom raRac gansakuTrebulia.

àm mobrunebis serias Tvals vadevneb da roca

vxedav, rom igive saxeebi brundebian ukan,

aWaris regionis mmarTveli aslan abaSiZe

maxsendeba. mas hqonda mmarTvelobis aseTi

stili. viRacas jer daawinaurebda, mere

gaagdebda, mere daabrunebda da kidev ufro

daawinaurebda. ivaniSvili aslan abaSiZis

prototipia. isini TiTqmis arafriT

gansxvavdebian erTmaneTisgan

ar varga es sistema, ara!~

arada, ar aris gansakuTrebuli,

erTi Cveulebrivi adamiania. is

Cvengan mxolod erTi ramiT gansxvavdeba,

_ mas aqvs meti fuli.

sxva mxriv arc codniT sjobs

vinmes, arc _ gamocdilebiT, arc

awmyoTi da arc warsuliT. sxva-

Ta Soris, arc 10 saaTze iZinebs.

esec mogonili ambavia, rom mis

gansakuTrebulobaSi davrwmundeT.

piradad me masTan Ramis

pirvel saaTze araerTxel misaubria

da ranairad iZinebs 10

saaTze, ar vici?

SeuZlia, 9 saaTzec daiZinos,

es misi saqmea, mTavaria, qveyana

ar daazaralos. dRes mas sami

arCevani aqvs da maszea damokidebuli,

romel gzas daadgeba:

erTi aris SevardnaZis gza, roca

is arCevnebis gayalbebis gamo

revoluciuri gziT gavagdeT;

meore aris saakaSvilis gza,

romelmac damarcxeba aRiara.

roca mkiTxeT, ranairad gabedeT

sakuTar Tavze gadabijeba da

saakaSvilTan Sexvedrao, es gavakeTe

imitom, rom 2012 wlis pirvel

oqtombers man damarcxeba

aRiara da „qarTul ocnebas” gamarjveba

miuloca. es wingadadgmuli

nabijia. es kargia saqarTvelos

ganviTarebisTvis da

Tavad saakaSvilisTvisac kargi

aRmoCnda. ivaniSvilsac SeuZlia

ase moqceva. aris mesame gza, romelsac

aslanis gza hqvia _ roca

is saerTod gavagdeT saqarTvelodan,

is aq dRemde ver Camodis

da aris mSobliur ruseTSi.

biZinasac SeiZleba mouwios

aslanTan erTad ruseTSi wasvla.

mas aseve SeuZlia, xelSi aiRos

iaraRi da qarTvel moqalaqes

gamoedevnos. es aravis gasvlia

da arc mas gauva.

TbilisSi rusTavelis gamzirze

gamosul saqarTvelos moqalaqeebs

verc erTi xelisufali

ver ugebs. mniSvneloba ar

aqvs, rusTavelze erTi kaci gamova,

asi Tu aTasi. isini cvlilebas

iTxoven. cvlilebebis winaa-

Rmdeg wasvla ki xelisuflebas

ar SeuZlia. es bunebis kanonia.

ra gzac ar unda airCios ivaniSvilma,

cvlileba gardauvalia.

_ Tqveni azriT, ra gzas

airCevs ivaniSvili?

_ minda, rom mixeil saakaSvilis

gza airCios. es qveynisTvisac

kargi iqneba da _ misTvisac.

rasac vuyureb, eWvic ki aRar

mepareba, rom is abaSiZis gzas

uaxlovdeba. rac dro gadis, ama-

Si sul ufro vrwmundebi. yvelaferSi

aWaris yofil liders

emsgavseba. ise emsgavseba, rom

politikur karierasac misnairad

daasrulebs.

_ ivaniSvili da abaSiZe erT-

maneTs icnoben?

_ icnoben. utyuari informacia

maqvs, rom 1992-1993 wlebSi

ivaniSvili Carteruli reisiT

ruseTidan orjer Camofrinda

baTumSi da orjer Sexvda aslan

abaSiZes. es aslan abaSiZis zeobis

xana gaxlavT. Cven maSin misi

opozicia viyaviT da mas or

rames vedavebodoT: es iyo

didZali narkotikisa da didZali

iaraRis Semotana aWaraSi.

erTic da meorec man ruseTidan

Semoitana. narkotikebi da iara-

Ri aslan abaSiZem Tavis mxardam-

Werebs dauriga.

Tqven mkiTxeT, icnoben Tu ara

isini erTmaneTso. vimeoreb: rac

me vici, orjer Sexvdnen erTmaneTs

da bunebrivia, icnoben.

_ im wlebSi ratom Sexvda

abaSiZes ivaniSvili?

_ Tu gaviTvaliswinebT, rom

ivaniSvili baTumSi Carteruli

reisiT Camofrinda, SegviZlia

vTqvaT, rom raRac mniSvnelovan

Temebze iyo saubari. im droisTvis

biZina ukve didi fulis

patronia; aslan abaSiZe ki saqarTvelos

centralur xelisuflebas

aWaris regionSi ar uSvebda.

ruseTidan Semotanili

didZali iaraRic amitom dauriga

Tavis momxreebs.

dazustebiT ar vici, raze isaubres

maSin ivaniSvilma da aba-

SiZem. araa gamoricxuli, es iaraRTan

dakavSirebuli garigeba

iyo. SeiZleba, narkotikebis Semotanasac

ukavSirdeboda. amaze

saubari Cemi mxridan Woraoba

iqneba. simarTle ivaniSvilma da

abaSiZem ician. sxvebsac ecodinebaT

da Tu daintereseba iqneba,

raRacebis garkveva SeiZleba.

biZinas orjer Camofrena baTum-

Si da aslanTan Sexvedra dokumenturadac

dadasturebulia.

ivaniSvilisTvis rom abaSiZe

misabaZia, es aWaris yofili lideris

kadrebis dawinaurebiTac

gamoixateba. aWaris regionSi

Tanamdebobebze, ZiriTadad,

„aRorZinebis” yofili wevrebi

iniSnebian. axalgazrdebSi iseT

kadrebs arCeven, romlebsac mSoblebi

hyavdaT aRorZinebaSi. aSkarad

moswons „ocnebis” liders

aWaris yofili mmarTveli da ase

Tu gaagrZela, mouwevs masTan

erTad moskovSi yofna.

Zalian ar minda, rom ivaniSvilma

abaSiZis gza airCios. es

qveynis imijs azaralebs. araa

lamazi, roca qveynidan xelisufals

gaagdeb. saukeTeso gamosavali

arCevnebSi damarcxebis aRiarebaa.

es qveynis imijsac waadgeba

da _ ivaniSvilisasac.

31


`dedaqalaqis meri opoziciasTan

dedaqalaqis meri kaxa kalaZe

Sorena marsagiSvili

aSkarad aWrilia da zrdilo-

599 92 16 22

basTanac xSirad SeuTavsebloba

aqvs. boroti xmebi amboben, rom

kaxa kalaZe seriozuli problemis winaSe dgas da amitomac

aris gaRizianebuli. bolo dros mis saxels araerTi korufci-

uli skandali daukavSirda. „ocnebis” kuluarebSi amboben, rom

misi qmedebebi ukve biZina ivaniSvilsac uSlis nervebs. mTa-

vari meocnebe ki ufro imiT aris nervebdawiwknili, rom

eWvobs, _ kalaZem SeiZleba, damoukideblad TamaSi moindomos.

moZraoba „Secvales” erT-erTi damfuZnebeli da moni-

toringis centr „mediatoris” wevri, dimitri biZinaSvili,

wlebia, kaxa kalaZis saqmianobas swavlobs. amasobaSi misi xasiaTic

kargad Seiswavla. misi dakvirvebiT, kalaZe maSin gada-

dis uzrdelobaze, roca gundSi problemebi eqmneba.

dimitri biZinaSvili:

ìvaniSvilisTvis

zurgis Seqceva

indulgencia ar

unda iyos~

rodis iwyebs uzrdelobas

kaxa kalaZe? vin uwers mas xum-

robebs? ramdeni gvijdeba misi

„piarSikebis” Senaxva? ratom daiwyo

korufciaze saubari? marTla

agzavnis Tu ara opozicia-

sTan ivaniSvilis sawinaaRmdego

mesijebs? _ am Temebze dimitri

biZinaSvili „qronika+~-s -s es-

aubreba:

_ dedaqalaqis merma bolo

periodSi quCuri terminologi-

iT daiwyo saubari. Tqven, rog-

orc staJiani kalaZelogi, riT

xsniT amas, _ trendulia ase laparaki

Tu rame sxva ambavi imale-

ba aq?

_ dedaqalaqis meri oponentebisa

da Jurnalistebis mimarT

uxeSi mopyrobiT cdilobs gadafaros

is mtkivneuli Temebi,

romelic piradad mas awuxebs.

misTvis yvelaze mtkivneuli Tema

biujetia. roca korufciasTan

dakavSirebiT kiTxvebs usvamen,

mas aviwydeba, rom sajaro piria

da maSinve quCur terminologiaze

gadadis. mis karieras Tu

gadavxedavT, vnaxavT, rom uyvars

mas es quCuri laparaki. is xom

xelovnurad Seqmnili politikosia.

kargad Tu daakvirdebiT, naxavT,

rom xumrobebic ki winaswar

aqvs momzadebuli.

kalaZe da misi „piarSikebi” winaswar

yovelTvis ver gansazRvraven,

ra kiTxvebs dasvamen Jurnalistebi

da oponentebi. roca

maTTvis miuRebeli kiTxvebi ismeba,

Tbilisis meri imwamsve xdeba

uzrdeli da quCis biWi, sxva

SemTxvevaSi yvelaferi winaswar

aqvs dawerili da sxvebis dawerils

kiTxulobs. sakrebulos

erT-erT sxdomaze man dawerili

xumroba waikiTxa. asea kalaZis,

rogorc politikosis imiji Seqmnili.

_ dawerili xumroba waikiTx-

ao da amas xumrobiT ambobT?

_ ar vxumrob, sruli seriozulobiT

geubnebiT. sakrebuloSi

sityviT gamosvlisas dedaqalaqis

merma furcelze dawerili xumroba

waikiTxa, Tan arc ki Sercxva.

_ xumroba sxvam rogor unda

dagiweros? ar mesmis...

_ uweren da kalaZec xumrobs

Tavisi WkuiT. misTvis xumrobis

daweraze „piarSikebis” mTeli gundi

muSaobs. am adamianebis Senaxva

Cvens biujets ramdenime aTeuli

milioni lari ujdeba. mis „pi-

arSikebs” TveSi 5000 larze naklebi

xelfasi ar aqvT. es adamianebi

ki weren xumrobebs, magram

imis amocnoba ar SeuZliaT, sad

dausvamen mers korufciul garigebebze

kiTxvas. am dros Tavad

kalaZe iRebs iniciativas da

uzrdelobs. amiT Tavs icavs.

axla toebiT daiwyo laparaki.

amiT raRacis damtkiceba surs,

magram ra unda daamtkicos, roca

erTi Cveulebrivi provincielia.

ise ar gamigoT, rom amiT mis

samtrediul warmomavlobas

vaknineb, araviTar SemTxvevaSi!

samtredielobis kompleqsi Tavad

awuxebs. sul imis fiqrSia, rom

viRacas raRac daumtkicos. arada,

misgan aravin iTxovs, rom naRdi

Tbiliseli iyos. misgan iTxoven

mxolod dapirebebis Sesrulebas.

dapirebebis Sesruleba

ar surs da slengiT unda fons

gasvla.

_ slengiT saubari sxvebsac

gadaedoT. jerac isev premierma

gaxariam Jurnalistebs uTxra,

xom ar dagaspoilerebTo. gaxarias

raRa sWirs, egac rames amt-

kicebs?

_ ra sWirs da rac _ kalaZes.

danapirebs ver asruleben, Sav

dReSi arian da raRaciT xom unda

gavidnen fons? es adamianebi xom

realurad arafers warmoadgenen.

Tanamdebobebze ki sxedan, magram

yvelaferi isea, rogorc biZina

ivaniSvils unda. „qarTuli ocnebidan”

aravis aqvs reitingi. er-

TaderTi, visac raRac reitingi

aRmoaCnda „ocnebaSi”, es aris kaxa

kalaZe. is ukve meored dawinaurda

reitingebSi da aman ukve gamoiRo

Sedegi. rogorc ki kvlevis

Sedegebi gamoqveynda, kalaZes maSinve

Seeqmna problemebi. es problemebi

mas „qarTulma ocnebam”

Seuqmna, ra Tqma unda, ivaniSvilis

davalebiT.

_ ra problemebi Seuqmnes

kalaZes?

_ aqtiurad daiwyo saubari

korufciul garigebebze, sadac

kaxa kalaZec aris CarTuli. es

garigebebi marTlac arsebobs,

magram mxolod maSin gaaxsendaT,

roca Tbilisis merma sxvebze ma-

Rali reitingi dado.

_ Tqven korufciul garige-

bebSi kalaZis monawileobaze

araerTi kvleva gamoaqveyneT,

magram „ocnebas” amaze reaqcia

ar hqonia.

_ arada, am dros misi da misi

axloblebis saqmianobis Sesaxeb

Tavadve aqvT saqme aRZruli.

rogorc ki kalaZes raRac damatebiTi

pretenziebi da ambiciebi

uCndeba, es Temebi maSinve wina

planze wamoiwevs xolme. am Temebis

wamoweviT kalaZes afrTxileben,

rom Tu is ivaniSvils gadauxteba,

aucileblad daiwyeba mis

winaaRmdeg gamoZieba. gamosaZiebeli

ki Zalian bevria. Tbilisis

meri damoukideblad gasvlas Tu

gabedavs, isic cudad daamTavrebs

da _ misi garemocvac. isinic

yelamde arian Cafluli korufciaSi.

es adamianebi wurblebiviT

asxedan biujets.

_ roca mis garemocvas ax-

senebT, vin gulisxmobT?

_ bevrni arian. gansakuTrebiT

ivliane wulaias da beqa odiSarias

gamovyofdi. isini kalaZis

karze didi pativiT sargebloben

da marTla wurblebiviT asxedan

ara marto Tbiliselebis fuls,

aramed Tbiliselebis qonebasac.

yvelam vnaxeT rogor aCuqa

kalaZem 16 milionad Sefasebuli

miwa 2 milionad Tavis megobars.

_ Zalian „humanuri” meri hyavs

Tbiliss, ase ar gadasces milionad

Sefasebuli adgili ivaniS-

vils erT larad?

_ ratom ar gadascemdnen.

ivaniSvilma isini imitom dasva

postebze da imitom aZlevs fulis

Sovnis uflebas, rom yvela

misi axireba unda Seasrulon. vimeoreb:

sanam kalaZe „ocnebis”

liders win ar gadaurbens, manamde

SeuZlia fuli akeTos, amaSi

ivaniSvili problemas ver xedavs,

magram rogorc ki Tavis TamaSis

dawyebas Seecdeba, maSinve

aRuZraven saqmes. am saqmeebis nawili

ukve gamoZiebulia da isini

Taroebzea Semodebuli.

Tbilisis meri seriozulad

aris gafrTxilebuli, rogorc ki

ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg wasvlas

gabedavs, mis megobrebs daakaveben.

araa gamoricxuli, isic dai-

Wiron, Tumca es ukidures SemTxvevaSi

moxdeba. oligarqi Seecdeba,

rom rogorme daWeris gareSe

gaaneitralos Tbilisis meris ambiciebi,

romelic ise momZlavrda

finansurad, rom damoukideblad

surs moqmedeba.

_ mis dapatimrebas ratom ewi-

naaRmdegeba ivaniSvili?

_ imitom, rom bevr saqmeSi

arian Tanamonawileni.

_ ra saqmeebSi?

èrTaderTi, visac raRac reitingi

aRmoaCnda òcnebaSi~, es aris kaxa kalaZe.

is ukve meored dawinaurda reitingebSi

da aman ukve gamoiRo Sedegi. rogorc ki

kvlevis Sedegebi gamoqveynda, kalaZes

maSinve Seeqmna problemebi. es problemebi

mas `qarTulma ocnebam~ Seuqmna, ra Tqma

unda, ivaniSvilis davalebiT~

_ Tundac fulis gaTeTrebis

sqemaSi. am sqemaSi erTad arian

oriveni. es saqme gaiSifra. kidev

bevri saerTo korufciuli sqema

eqnebaT amaT. amitom moerideba

„ocnebis” lideri mis daWeras,

misi megobrebi ki nebismier wuTs

SeiZleba gisosebs miRma aRmoCndnen.

rogorc ukve giTxariT,

Tbilisis meri amis Taobaze

gafrTxilebulia.

_ saidan iciT, rom gafrTx-

ilebulia? varaudia, Tu raime

informacias flobT?

_ Tavisi piriT gviTxra. amaze

iyo gabrazebuli da amitom

galanZRa Jurnalistebi. arada,

Jurnalistma misi gancxadebidan

gamomdinare dausva kiTxva.

Tbilisis merma sagangebo gancxadebaSi

aRiara, rom mis daqvemdebarebul

struqturebSi korufciaa.

man am struqturebs mimar-

Ta da mouwoda, korufcias SeeSviTo,

ar CaerToTo da a. S.

meriasa da kalaZis garSemo

rom korufcia yvavis, es ramdenjer

damtkicda. daakaves Tbilisis

sakrebulos deputati,

daakaves vakis raionis gamgeblis

moadgile. korufciasTan dakav-

SirebiT Tbilisis meris mier gakeTebuli

gancxadeba erTgvari

Tavis dacvis mcdelobaa. is darwmunebulia,

rom, adre Tu gvian,

korufciuli sqemebis gamo miadgebian.

es ki etyvis, me rogor

gavereodi korufciaSi, roca sxvebs

vafrTxilebdi, ase ar moqceuliyvneno.

minda, „qronika+”-is mkiTxvelma

icodes, rom Tbilisis meriis

mier gamocxadebuli yvela tenderi

korufciuli garigebaa, maT

Soris, is tenderi, milanidan rom

unda Camoitanos 13-aTasiani skamebi.

isic korufciuli sqemaa,

odiSarias qvislma ZviradRirebuli

nagvis urnebi rom unda Camoitanos

portugaliidan. korufciuli

garigebis naTeli magaliTi

iyo is „alvis xe”, romelic

merma didi ambiT italiidan

Camoitana da naZvis xed gaasaRa.

SeiZleba, es raRac xe marTla

trendulia, magram is milioni

namdvilad ar Rirs. kalaZe ki

gvarwmunebs, rom am xeSi milioni

gadaixada. „alvis xiT” amdeni

fulis gakeTeba ar ikmara da

evropidan sagangebod Camoiyvana

blogerebi, romlebmac daweres,

rom Turme ra magari da lamazi

naZvis xe dadga Tbilisis merma.

32

32 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


molaparakebebs daiwyebs~

_ marTla moewonaT evropel

_ marTla moewonaT evropel

blogerebs niaxuris konis msgav-

si xe?

_ moewonaT Tu ara ar vici,

magram ase daweres, magram ara

kalaZis xaTriT. „alvis xeze”

dadebiTi rom daeweraT, es qveynis

biujets aTasobiT lari

daujda damatebiT. am adamianebis

Camoyvanis fulic Cven gadavixadeT,

maTi drostarebisa da sastumros

xarjebic Cven gavistumreT.

aba, kalaZe Tavisi jibidan

xom ar gadaixdida?

yvelaze kargad Tavad Tbilisis

merma icis, rac Caudenia. isic

icis, rom amis Sesaxeb ivaniSvilmac

icis. etyoba, raRac gegmebic

aqvs, romlis ganxorcielebasac

mis garemocvaSi dakavebebi moyveba,

amitomac daizRvia winaswar

Tavi _ misianebs uTxra, korufcias

ar gaekaroTo. Jurnalistmac

aqedan gamomdinare dausva

kiTxva, ramac xelovnuri politikosi

kalaZe gaaRiziana. adamianebs

maSin aRizianebT kiTxvebi, roca

cudad aqvT saqmeebi. is uzrdelobiT

Seecada Tavdacvis re-

Jimze gadasvlas.

es adamiani gaWirvebulebs eubneba,

rom dReSi saWmlisTvis 1

lari 18 TeTri unda imyofinon,

Tavad ki milionebi ar akmayofilebs.

milionebi ki iSova, magram

axla Zalian SeSinebulia.

icis, rom mis garSemo xmauriani

daWerebi iqneba. Tavad mas imitom

ar mokideben xels, rom ivaniSvilTan

erTad aris saeWvo sqemeb-

Si CarTuli. Zalian Tu gamwvavda

saqme, SeiZleba misi dakavebac

gadawydes. mere Tbilisis mers

aRar uSvelis biZinas eqvTimes-

Tvis Sedareba. ganaTlebis ministrma

biZinas Tanamedrove eqvTime

uwoda da am adamians ukve ganixilaven

premieris postze.

_ kalaZem SeiZleba, arc icis,

vinaa eqvTime TayaiSvili. is

ivaniSvils ufro Tavis kantoris

xalxs Seadarebs, magaliTad,

silvio berluskonis, paolo

maldinis anda jenaro gatuzos.

_ iman Tu gadawyvita Tbilisis

meris daWera, aravisTan Sedareba

aRar uSvelis. axla yvelaferi

kalaZezea damokidebuli.

damoukideblobas Tu moindomebs,

SeiZleba, gisosebs miRma amoyos

Tavi.

_ Tqven ramdenjerme axseneT,

rom damoukidebeli TamaSi Tu

moindomao. gaqvT rame konkretuli

informacia imasTan dakav-

SirebiT, rom Tbilisis mers „oc-

nebisgan” distancireba surs?

_ es xmebi ukve didi xania, dadis.

yvelasTvis cnobilia am adamianis

ambiciebis Sesaxeb. mas rom

damoukideblad gasvla unda,

amaze is gafrTxilebebic metyvelebs,

romlebzec zemoT ukve

gesaubreT.

_ Tbilisis meri rame formiT

Tu ekontaqteba opozicias? ale-

ko elisaSvilma Tqva, rom kalaZe

opozicias mesijebs ugzavnis,

rom ivaniSvilis CamogdebaSi mec

dagexmarebiTo. amaze „ocnebis”

kuluarebSic saubroben. Tqven

`minda, `qronika+~-is mkiTxvelma icodes, rom Tbilisis meriis mier

gamocxadebuli yvela tenderi korufciuli garigebaa, maT Soris, is tenderi,

milanidan rom unda Camoitanos 13-aTasiani skamebi. isic korufciuli sqemaa,

odiSarias qvislma ZviradRirebuli nagvis urnebi rom unda Camoitanos

portugaliidan. korufciuli garigebis naTeli magaliTi iyo is àlvis xe~,

romelic merma didi ambiT italiidan Camoitana da naZvis xed gaasaRa~

damatebiTi informacia xom ar

gaqvT? an, iqneb, aseT informa-

ciebs imitom avrceleben, rom

undaT, „ocnebis” lideri gada-

amteron Tbilisis mers. is kaci,

rogorc amboben, bunebiT Zalian

eWviania.

_ konkretuli faqtis moyvana

gamiWirdeba. verc imas davamtkiceb,

rom is opozicias mesijebs

ugzavnis, magram verc amis alba-

Tobas gamovricxav. vici, rom

mkiTxvels es ambavi Zalian ainteresebs.

isini am kiTxvaze pasuxs

martivad miiReben, Tu Tbilisis

meris warsuls kargad gadaxedaven.

am warsulidan gamomdinare

mixvdebian, ra adamiania is da

raze SeuZlia wasvla.

_ Tqveni pasuxi ras niSnavs,

rom Tu dasWirda, ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg opozicias gaurigde-

ba?

_ konkretuli informacia rom

mqondes, aucileblad vityodi.

mkiTxvels, romelsac misi biografiis

gadaxedva ar unda, vetyvi,

rom Tbilisis meri aris adamiani,

romelic yvela boTlis „probkas”

ergeba.

_ Tqvenc kalaZesaviT Jar-

gonebiT daiwyeT saubari?

_ kalaZemde bevri miklia. is am

mxriv Zalian Sors wavida. daiwyo

garaSendiT, gadavida rva sul

qurdze, mere gamoqanebaze isaubra,

mere sigrZe-sigane geyofaTo.

bolos toebiT daiwyo laparaki.

masaviT gamomivida, magram is mar-

Tlac yvela boTlis „probkas”

ergeba. mas SeuZlia, yvela partiasTan

gamonaxos saerTo ena, ro-

`bevrni arian. gansakuTrebiT ivliane wulaias

da beqa odiSarias gamovyofdi. isini kalaZis

karze didi pativiT sargebloben da marTla

wurblebiviT asxedan ara marto Tbiliselebis

fuls, aramed Tbiliselebis qonebasac. yvelam

vnaxeT rogor aCuqa kalaZem 16 milionad

Sefasebuli miwa 2 milionad Tavis megobars~

melic ki xelisuflebis saTaveSi

mova. roca SevardnaZe qveynis

mmarTveli iyo, mis partiasTan

kargi urTierToba hqonda; roca

saakaSvili gaZlierda, misi yurmoWrili

mona gaxda. yvelgan Tan

dasdevda da mzad iyo, miSas yvela

davaleba Tu axireba Seesrulebina.

vinmes Tu ar axsovs, gavaxsenoT

mixeil saakaSvilis saarCevno

kampania. kalaZe am kampaniaSi

7 noembris darbevis Semdeg Caer-

To.

_ ramdenime dRis win nika meliam

Tbilisis merTan dakavSirebiT

erTi saintereso ambavi gaixsena.

misi TqmiT, 2007 wels, dar-

bevidan ramdenime saaTSi, kala-

Zem „rusTavi 2-is” pirdapir eTe-

rSi dareka da Tavisi pozicia

daafiqsira. man opozicia da xalxi

dagmo, samagierod, xelisuflebas

Riad gamoucxada mx-

ardaWera.

_ meti ra gindaT, es magaliTic

sakmarisia kalaZis dasaxasiaTeblad.

kaci 7 noembris darbevas

amarTlebda, saakaSvilis

saarCevno kampaniis aqtiuri saxe

iyo da axla „nacionalebs” axsenebs

xolme am darbevas. 2008

wlis saakaSvilis saarCevno kampania

lamis sul Tbilisis dRevandel

merze iyo agebuli. es mas

uangarod ar gaukeTebia, saakaSvilis

daxmarebiT man didi fuli

iSova, magram mas ufro metis

Sovna surda. 2011 wels, roca

xelisuflebidan „nacionalebis”

wasvla ukve momwifebuli iyo,

politikaSi biZina ivaniSvili Semovida.

kaxa kalaZes am mxriv kargi

alRo aqvs da mixvda, saidan

uberavda qari. da is politikur

sivrceSi „qarTuli ocnebis”

liderTan erTad Semovida. amis

Semdeg man imis lanZRva daiwyo,

rasac manamde wlebis manZilze

mTeli mondomebiT amarTlebda.

es da kidev bevri rame mafiqrebinebs

imas, rom Tbilisis

meri, dRes iqneba Tu xval, aucileblad

dauwyebs biZina ivaniSvils

brZolas. manamde im adamianebTan

Seecdeba saerTo enis

gamonaxvas, visac xelisuflebaSi

mosvlis Sansebi eqneba. es im tipis

adamiania, romelic cdilobs,

yvela xelisuflebis pirobebSi

naxos sargebeli. am SemTxvevaSi

misi erTaderTi sazrunavi im

milionebis SenarCunebaa, romelic

man saqarTvelos gaRatakebul

da SimSilis zRvarze myof mosaxleobas

mopara. ar vici, ra informaciebze

dayrdnobiT akeTebs

gancxadebebs aleko elisaSvili,

magram ar gamovricxav, rom Tbilisis

meri marTla agzavnides

opoziciasTan xalxs da hpirdebodes,

ivaniSvilis CamogdebaSi

dagexmarebiTo. kalaZes saukeTesod

aqvs alRo ganviTarebuli da

is yvelaze kargad xvdeba, rom

„qarTul ocnebasa” da mis liders

didi dRe ar uweriaT. sxva Tu

araferi, is partiis erT-erTi

lideria da Signidan uyurebs movlenebs.

maTi saqme Savad rom aris,

es bolo kvlevebmac daamtkica.

_ am kvlevis Sedegebs „ocneba”

undoblobas ucxadebs. „endi-

ais” arc kaxa kalaZe endoba.

_ am kvlevebTan mimarTebiTac

ormagi standarti aqvs kalaZes.

is Zalianac kmayofilia, rom „ocnebidan”

yvelaze reitingulad

dasaxelda, gulSi eTanxmeba, magram

sajarod _ ara. icis, rom ase

Tu ar moiqceva, ivaniSvils gadaimterebs.

_ boroti xmebi rogorc am-

boben, ivaniSvils ar uyvars is

xalxi, vinc reitingSi winaurde-

bao.

_ asea. ivaniSvils miaCnia, rom

is unda iyos yvelaze popularuli.

kalaZe mas uswrebs. Tbilisis

merma kargad icis, ra damokidebuleba

aqvs „ocnebis” liders

imaT mimarT, visac maRali reitingi

aqvs. amitom Seecdeba, Tavi

gadairCinos da samomavlod

daalagos yvelaferi. aqamde

opoziciasTan Tu ar aqvs dawyebuli

molaparakebebi, xval da

zeg aucileblad daiwyebs.

_ opozicias, albaT, gaux-

ardeba, Tuki Tbilisis meri

ivaniSvils daupirispirdeba.

_ gauxardeba, imitom rom misi

wamosvla ivaniSvilis partiisTvis

seriozuli dartyma iqneba. am partias

isedac bevri tovebs. iqidan

erT-erTi lideris wamosvlas

ufro seriozuli efeqti eqneba.

_ kmayofili opozicia, albaT,

miiRebs kalaZes Tavis rigebSi.

_ mas yvela xelisuflebasTan

SeuZlia saerTo enis gamonaxva.

Seecdeba, dRevandel opoziciasTanac

igive gaakeTos. opozicia

Tu mas Tavis rigebSi miiRebs, es

Zalian cudi iqneba.

_ visTvis iqneba cudi?

_ Tavad opoziciisTvis. xalxisTvis

gagzavnili cudi mesiji

iqneba. isini sazogadoebas etyvian,

rom mzad arian, biujetis

qurds milionebi apation, radganac

man ivaniSvils zurgi aqcia.

amis daSveba ar SeiZleba. kalaZem

da misma garemocvam pasuxi unda

agon. pasuxi yvelam unda agos,

vinc rame daaSava. am xalxma biujetis

fuli miiTvisa. fuli Sim-

Silis zRvarze myof adamianebs

mopares da rogor SeiZleba, maT-

Tvis induligenciis micema?!

33


`xalxs saakaSvilis

„endiais” Catarebulma kvlevam

Sorena marsagiSvili

mmarTveli partia SokSi Caagdo.

599 92 16 22

ioli gadasatani ar iyo imis mosmena,

rom mixeil saakaSvili mTe-

li 10%-iT uswrebs biZina ivaniSvils. opoziciis reitingi ki

mniSvnelovnad aRemateba „qarTuli ocnebis” reitings. meoc-

nebeebi xmamaRla amboben, rom am reitingebs ar endobian.

arada, maT yvelaze ukeT ician, Tu ra reitingi aqvT. maRali

reitingi da Warbi ndoba rom hqonodaT, arc proporciul

arCevnebze ityodnen uars. samoqalaqo aqtivist giorgi mRe-

briSvilis azriT, am kvlevebiT gamoCnda, rom xalxs mixeil

saakaSvilis dabrunebis aRar eSinia. winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi,

mesame prezidenti 10%-iT ar gauswrebda biZina ivaniSvils.

misive azriT, gadamwyvetia is, rom saakaSvilis reitingi

ukeTesobisken Seicvala, ivaniSvilis ki _ uaresobisken.

ratom Seicvala „ocnebis” mimarT

Warbi ndoba Warbi undob-

lobiT? gamoiyeneben Tu ara

arCevnebis win mixeil saakaSvils

kidev erTxel safrTxobelad? ra

arCevanis winaSe dgas biZina ivaniSvili?

SeZlebs Tu ara opozi-

cia erTianobis SenarCunebas? _ am

Temebze „qronika+“-s samoqalaqo

aqtivists giorgi mRebriSvili

esaubreba:

_ „endiais” bolo kvlevam „ocnebas”

da mis mxardamWerebs imede-

bi gaucrua. partiam, romelic

amtkicebda, rom Warbi ndoba

hqonda, sakmaod mokrZalebuli

Sedegi aCvena, rac SemTxveviTi

ambavi ar unda iyos.

_ aq raRac gansakuTrebuli araferi

momxdara, Warbi ndoba Warbma

undoblobam Secvala. Warb ndobas

„ocneba” saakaSvilis faqtoris

xarjze inarCunebda. mTeli es

wlebi xelisufleba xalxs mesame

prezidentis dabrunebiT aSinebda.

am kvlevebidan Cans, rom es safrTxe

ganeitralebulia da xalxs

miSas dabrunebis aRar eSinia.

paralelurad, mkveTrad daeca

biZina ivaniSvilis reitingi. Segvi-

Zlia vTqvaT, rom mniSvnelovnad

Seicvala situacia _ erTi mxriv,

CamoiSala mtris xati da meore

mxriv, CamoiSala tyuilebis guda.

miSas dadebiT reitingTan erTad

ivaniSvilis uaryofiTi reitingic

gadamwyvetia. xalxi movlenebs

ukve ormxrivad afasebs.

_ ambobT, rom saakaSvilis dabrunebis

safrTxe ganeitralebu-

liao. darwmunebuli xarT, rom

saarCevnod isev ar gamoiyeneben

am faqtors? raRac Zvel ambavs

amoqeqaven da isev SeaSineben

xalxs „nacionalebis” dabrunebiT.

axlaxans saakaSvilis gancx-

adebaze saqme aRiZra.

_ bevr raRacas amoqeqaven, bevr

raRacas ityvian, bevr raRacas moigoneben,

magram xalxs saakaSvilis

dabrunebiT veRar daaSineben. es

SiSi ganeitralebulia. saakaSvilis

reitingi sxvanairad ar gaizrdeboda.

es SiSi Tavad „ocnebam”

gaaneitrala.

ver gaviziareb im mosazrebas,

rom TiTqos ivaniSvils sazogadoebis

nawili „nacionalebis” dabrunebis

SiSiT uWerda mxars. aq

ufro pirad gamorCenasTan unda

gvqondes saqme. bevri Cveni moqalaqe

imitom uWerda da uWers mxars

ivaniSvils, rom piradi sargeblis

naxva surs. Zalian gauWirdeba

xelisuflebas Zveli meTodeb-

is gamoyeneba. xalxi sakuTar momavals

mxolod saakaSviliT da

ivaniSviliT aRar sazRvravs, miuxedavad

imisa, rom politikuri

veli am or adamians aqvs gayofili.

„endiais” mier gamoqveynebuli

kvlevebi cxadyofs, rom adamianebma

TavianTi mdgomareobidan gamomdinare

gaakeTes Sefasebebi. isini

mixvdnen, rom qveyanaSi cvlilebebia

saWiro. es adamianebi xedaven,

ra mdgomareobaa maT ojaxSi, maT

garSemo. yvelas macivari carielia.

am fonze meore planze gadadis

saakaSvilis dabrunebis safrTxe.

8 welia, rac „ocneba” xelisuflebaSia

da 8 welia, rac

saakaSvili saSiSia. Cemi azriT,

axla adamianebs miSa naklebad

aRelvebT, maT sakuTari pirovnuli

mdgomareoba ufro adardebT.

amitomac ivaniSvilis mimarT Warbi

ndoba Warbi undoblobiT Seicvala.

samagierod, saakaSvilis

dadebiTi reitingi gaizarda.

_ bevri adamianis macivari dacarielda

am wlebSi. mxolod ca-

rieli macivris bralia „ocnebis”

mimarT Warbi undobloba, Tu sxva

faqtorebic aris? magaliTad,

„gavrilovis Rame”, proporciul

arCevnebze gadasvlis sakiTxis

Cagdeba. ivaniSvilis gancxadebam,

_ aq samuSao adgilebs ver Seg-

iqmniT da sazRvargareT wadiT

samsaxuris saZebnelado, sazoga-

doeba Zalian gaaRiziana.

_ mxolod carieli macivari

aseT Warb undoblobas ver gamoiwvevda.

amaze imitom gavamxvile yuradReba,

rom cariel macivars

adamiani yovelwams uyurebs. Warbi

undoblobis mTavari mizezi iyo

20 ivnisis sisxliani Rame. am Ramem

qveyanaSi situacia radikalurad

Secvala. 20 ivnisamde patara-patara

20 ivnisebi, gadagdebebi iyo,

magram amaze xalxi ar reagirebda.

reagireba imitom ar iyo, rom kidev

hqondaT raRacis imedi. 20 ivnisis

Semdeg yvela imedi amoiwura,

yvelafers Tavisi saxeli daerqva

da sazogadoebamac sxva TvaliT

Sexeda arsebul situacias.

„ocnebis” reitingis mniSvnelovan

klebaSi Tavisi wvlili Seitana

proporciuli arCevnebis Cagdebamac.

20 ivnisis darbevis gasaprotesteblad

gamosul xalxs ivaniSvili

dahpirda, rom 2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebi proporciuli

sistemiT Catardeboda, magram,

rogorc sCvevia, xalxi gadaagdo.

es gadagdeba sazogadoebam

ukve aRar gaatara.

giorgi mRebriSvili:

ìvaniSvils

gasaqcevic ki ar aqvs,

is iZulebulia,

arCevnebi gaayalbos~

_ proporciul arCevnebze gadasvlis

sakiTxis Cagdebas dasavleTSic

seriozuli reaqcia moy-

va. es gadagdeba arc iq gautares

ivaniSvils da dasavleTma „qarT-

uli ocnebis” mimarT Zalian mwva-

ve gancxadebebi gaakeTa. am fonze

amerikam moldovel oligarq

ploxotniks finansuri sanqciebi

dauwesa. amerikuli mediagamoce-

mebi miiCneven, rom sanqciebi

ivaniSvilsac unda dauweson. es

yvelaferi aiZulebs Tu ara „oc-

nebis” liders, rom 2020 wlis

arCevnebi demokratiulad Caata-

ros?

_ dasavleTi sxvis saqmeebSi ase

martivad ar ereva. is iSviaTad

akeTebs gancxadebebs da isic Zalian

diplomatiurad. Cvens SemTxvevaSi

ki sxvanairad aris saqme.

dasavleTSi erTi meoris miyolebiT

keTdeba mwvave gancxadebebi

saqarTvelos xelisuflebis misa-

`yvelas macivari carielia. am fonze meore

planze gadadis saakaSvilis dabrunebis

safrTxe. 8 welia, rac òcneba~ xelisuflebaSia

da 8 welia, rac saakaSvili saSiSia. Cemi azriT,

axla adamianebs miSa naklebad aRelvebT, maT

sakuTari pirovnuli mdgomareoba ufro

adardebT. amitomac ivaniSvilis mimarT Warbi

ndoba Warbi undoblobiT Seicvala. samagierod,

saakaSvilis dadebiTi reitingi gaizarda~

marTiT. es mwvave gancxadebebi Cveni

sazogadoebisTvis mkafio mesijia.

dasavleTi aseT gadawyvetilebas

iolad ar iRebs da miT umetes,

xmamaRla ar axmovanebs. iqauri

politikosebi yuradRebiT akvirdebian,

Tu ra procesebi midis

qveyanaSi. „ocnebis” mimarT maTi

damokidebulebac 20 ivnisis Semdeg

Seicvala. yvelam naxa, rom sisxliani

Ramis Semdeg qveyanam protestis

muxti ar daagdo. kidev ufro

gamwvavda protesti, roca „ocnebam”

da ivaniSvilma xalxi gadaagdes

da arCevnebis proporciuli

wesiT Catarebaze uari Tqves.

dainaxes ra aseTi mZlavri da

uwyveti protesti, dasavleTSi miiCnies,

rom es xalxi ar gaCerdeba

da maTi mxardaWeris droao. maT

aqamdec kargad icodnen, Tu ra

moqmedebebs eweoda ivaniSvili, magram

sanam Cven ar daviwyeT amis

gaprotesteba, xma ar amouRiaT. es

normaluric aris _ dasavleTi

Cvenze radikaluri veranairad

iqneboda. dRes dasavleTi Zalian

radikaluria SefasebebSi da is

Riad uWers mxars Cvens sazogadoebas.

dasavleli partniorebi Sesani-

Snavad acnobiereben imasac, rom

saqarTveloSi safrTxis qveS dgas

demokratia da sxva dasavluri Rirebulebebi.

„qarTulma ocnebam”

da misma liderma maTi interesebic

fexqveS gaTeles. bunebrivia,

rom amis winaaRmdeg gamosuli sazogadoebis

mimarT Cveni dasavleli

partniorebi solidarulebi

arian. maTi mxardaWera xalxs da

opoziciasac imeds aZlevs. rac

Seexeba Temas, Caatarebs Tu ara

ivaniSvili arCevnebs demokratiulad,

bolo kvlevebidan gamomdinare,

_ ar Caatarebs. mis partias

19% aqvs. unda gaviTvaliswinoT,

rom am 19%-Si qarTuli politikis

Taviseburebis gamovlenis niSnebia.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ am 19%-dan bevri SiSiT uWers

mxars „qarTul ocnebas”. maT samsaxuris

dakargva ar undaT da mxolod

amitom amboben, rom am partias

uWeren mxars. darwmunebuli

var, bevri maTgani opoziciuri

ganwyobis matarebelia, magram sxvadasxva

mizezis gamo ar amJRavnebs

Tavis pozicias.

gagaxsenebT SarSan, 14 dekembers

TbilisSi gamarTul „ocnebis”

aqcias. qalaqis centri 50.000 adamianiT

Seavses. es xalxi regionebidan

ZaliT Camoiyvanes. 50.000

adamiani adgilze 2 saaTic ki ver

gaCerda. es bevr rameze metyvelebs.

amas ivaniSvilic kargad xvdeba.

man Zalian kargad icis, rom arsebul

viTarebaSi arCevnebze 51%-

s veranairad aiRebs, amitomac

ebRauWeba maJoritarebs. mas sxva

gza arc aqvs.

arsebuli saarCevno sistemis

SenarCunebas is momavalSic yvelanairad

Seecdeba, Tumca maJoritarebmac

SeiZleba ar gaumarTlos.

imisTvis, rom mTavrobis dakompleqteba

SeZlos, sul cota,

40 maJoritari mainc unda gaiyvanos.

am viTarebaSi es Znelad Sesasrulebeli

amocanaa. ukve vTqviT,

rom dRes „qarTuli ocnebis” mimarT

Warbi undoblobaa.

34

34 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.


dabrunebis aRar eSinia~

biZina ivaniSvils 2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebis mogebis

aranairi Sansi ar aqvs. mas ki

Zalian unda Zalauflebis Senar-

Cuneba. amisTvis arCevnebis gayalbeba

mouwevs. arc mosyidvas moerideba

da arc _ represiebs.

_ am yvelafris fonze, ra su-

raTic dRes gvaqvs, mainc gabedavs

arCevnebis gayalbebas?

_ ratomac ar gabedavs? Tan aq

gabedvaze aRarc aris saubari. mas

sxva gza, ubralod, ar darCenia.

arCevnebis gayalbebis gareSe is

xelisuflebas ver SeinarCunebs.

_ ras daupirispirebs amas

opozicia? dRes opozicia erTi

ideis garSemoa gaerTianebuli.

gastans es erToba arCevnebamde?

an arCevnebis gayalbebis SemTx-

vevaSi Tu iqnebian erTiani, rom

gayalbeba erToblivad gaapro-

teston?

_ opoziciis saxeliT ver vilaparakeb,

mxolod Cems pirad pozicias

davafiqsireb. opoziciis er-

Tianobas didi mniSvneloba aqvs.

yvelam Zalian kargad icis, ra iqneba

arCevnebze. am mocemulobaSi

sul sxva fasi eqneba „patriotTa

aliansis” 5%-s. wava seriozuli

vaWroba. xelisufleba yvelanairad

Seecdeba, rom opoziciis er-

Tianoba daSalos. es niSnebi ukve

aris.

_ ra niSnebze saubrobT?

_ miuxedavad qarTuli realobis

Taviseburebebisa, „endiais”

bolo kvleva ganaCenia ivaniSvilisTvis

da pasuxi kiTxvaze, Tu ratom

gadaifiqra man proporciuli

arCevnebis Catareba. rogorc ukve

vTqvi, maJoritarebisa da masobrivi

gayalbeba-mosyidva-Zaladobis

gareSe ivaniSvili ganwirulia.

gamokiTxvis 19%-iT, rac maqsimum

23-25%-ze SeiZleba avides dRes da

arCevnebis dRes aucileblad dabla

daiwevs, gamoricxulia ivaniSvilis

mier umravlesobis mopoveba

nebismieri kombinacia-konfiguraciiT.

23-25% esaa daaxloebiT

30-33 deputati. Sesabamisad, minimum

40 maJoritari sWirdeba, rom

umravlesobaSi mosvlis Sansi SeinarCunos.

danarCens adgilze iyidis

uproblemod koaliciis an Tanamdebobis

pirdapiri yidvis gziT.

magaliTad, usufaSvili parlamentis

Tavmjdomareobis postze

sulsac mihyidis mas. 5-6 aseTi deputati

aucileblad iqneba moZiebuli

parlamentSi.

„patriotTa aliansis” garda

ramdenime 1%-iani partia ukve Cajda

am konfiguraciaSi. isini, albaT,

gaurigdebian ivaniSvils, rac

sakmarisi araa. Sesabamisad, „qarTul

ocnebas” CaliCi mouwevs. opozicias

Zalian kargad aqvs gacnobierebuli

erTianobis fasi da mni-

Svneloba. es erToba kidev ufro

unda ganamtkicon. erTobis SenarCuneba

ioli ar iqneba, magram amisTvis

yvelaferi unda gakeTdes.

_ „endiais” kvlevebma opozicia

Zalian gaaxara. es eiforiaSi xom

ar Caagdebs maT da saarCevnod

xom ar modundebian, riTac auci-

leblad isargeblebs „qarTuli

ocneba”?

_ opozicia SeiZleba, marTla

Cavardes eiforiaSi, modundes da

`saxezea eklesiis reitingis katastrofuli vardna. am mxriv, sazogadoebam

bolos da bolos, Riad amoRerRa, ras fiqrobda da rogor afasebda

eklesiis umsgavso qmedebebs. maT Soris aRsaniSnavia bolo Tveebis

radikaluri kleba. anu pandoras yuTi gaixsna~

amiT waagos. zustad igive viTareba

iyo 2018 wels Catarebuli

saprezidento arCevnebis meore

turis win. pirveli turis Semdeg

isini eiforiaSi Cavardnen da amitomac

daTmes maSin meore turi.

opoziciaSi politikosebi arian

da politikosi roca xar, saku-

Tar Secdomebze unda iswavlo,

pirvel rigSi. imedia, maT iswavles

am Secdomaze da Tu iswavles, aRar

unda gauWirdeT mosalodneli safrTxeebis

danaxva da maTze sa-

Tanado reagireba.

_ wesiT, unda eswavlaT Tavis

Secdomebze, magram iswavles?

_ aba, ra giTxraT? wesiT, erTxel

daSvebuli Secdoma meored aRar

unda gaimeoron. opoziciis qmedebebi

mniSvnelovnad iqneba damokidebuli

sazogadoebazec. sazogadoeba

ukve adekvaturad reagirebs

yvelaferze, rac kargi ambavia.

_ adekvatur reagirebaSi ras

gulisxmobT?

_ sazogadoeba ramdenime adamians

aRar aZlevs imis uflebas, rom

maT miiRon erTpirovnuli gadawyvetilebebi.

sazogadoeba ar miscems

opozicias modunebis uflebas,

is aiZulebs mas, rom tonusSi

iyos. isini sazogadoebis azrsac

angariSs gauweven da ar wamoegebian

xelisuflebis ankesze. es maTi

mxridan upatiebeli Secdoma iqneba.

_ Tqven ambobT, rom ivaniSvili

iZulebuli iqneba, arCevnebi gaay-

alboso. imedia, ar gayalbdeba da

Tu gayalbdeba, opozicia amas ga-

aprotestebs? saprezidento arC-

evnebic gayalbda, magram ar gau-

protestebia arc opozicias da

arc sazogadoebas. igive xom ar

moxdeba axlac? da kidev erTi:

elodeba Tu ara ivaniSvils fin-

ansuri sanqciebi, Tuki arCevnebs

gaayalbebs? mgonia, rom es sanqciebi

mas aiZulebs, daamuxru-

Wos.

_ gavimeoreb: „qarTuli ocnebis”

lideri iZulebulia, arCevnebi

gaayalbos. mas veraferi, maT Sor-

ìvaniSvils politikaze odnavi warmodgena

mainc rom hqondes, is opoziciaSi gadasvlaze

ifiqrebda. normalurad da saRad moazrovne

adamiani Seqmnil viTarebaSic ki SeZlebda

gamosavlis povnas. ivaniSvilma isic ki ar

icis, ramxela SesaZlebloba aqvs opoziciaSi

yofnas. opoziciaSi gadasvlis SemTxvevaSi is

da misi partia arCevnebze 20-25%-s miiRebdnen,

Tavad darCeboda politikaSi da momdevno 4

wlis ganmavlobaSi im safrTxeebs moixsnida,

rac mas dReis mdgomareobiT emuqreba~

is, finansuri sanqciebic ver aiZulebs,

rom daamuxruWos. biZina

ivaniSvili ar aris politikosi,

rom raRac manevrebs mimarTos. mas

ukan dasaxevi gza ar gaaCnia. mas,

elementarulad, gasaqcevic ki arsad

aqvs da aba, rogor daamuxru-

Webs sanqciebi?

sxva oligarqebs, igive ploxotniks,

gasaqcevi hqonda da moldovidan

gaiqca. amas gasaqcevi ar

aqvs. Tu gaiqceva, problemebi ki

ar Seumsubuqdeba, kidev ufro

daumZimdeba. mas mxolod erTi gza

aqvs darCenili _ arCevnebi nebismieri

meTodiT unda moigos. politikosi

rom yofiliyo, is aucileblad

gamonaxavda sxva gzas, miT

umetes, rom aseTi gza arsebobs.

_ ra gzas airCevda, politiko-

si rom yofiliyo?

_ ivaniSvils politikaze odnavi

warmodgena mainc rom hqondes,

is opoziciaSi gadasvlaze ifiqrebda.

normalurad da saRad moazrovne

adamiani Seqmnil viTareba-

Sic ki SeZlebda gamosavlis povnas.

ivaniSvilma isic ki ar icis,

ramxela SesaZlebloba aqvs opoziciaSi

yofnas. opoziciaSi gadasvlis

SemTxvevaSi is da misi partia

arCevnebze 20-25%-s miiRebdnen,

Tavad darCeboda politikaSi da

momdevno 4 wlis ganmavlobaSi im

safrTxeebs moixsnida, rac mas

dReis mdgomareobiT emuqreba.

_ ra safrTxeebi emuqreba mas?

_ mas bevri safrTxe emuqreba,

rogorc qveynis SigniT, aseve mis

gareT. amdeni safrTxe rom ar

iyos, ase ar CaebRauWeboda Zalauflebas

da va-bankze ar wavidoda.

va-bankze wasvlis nacvlad SeeZlo,

opoziciaSi wasvlaze efiqra da safrTxeebi

aeridebina, magram,

rogorc ukve vTqviT, ar aris es

kaci politikosi da amdens ver

fiqrobs. „ocnebis” lideri movlenebsac

sxva TvaliT uyurebs da amitomac

gamosavali arCevnebis gayalbebaSi

ipova. is, faqtobrivad,

va-bankzea wasuli. axla ra moxdeba,

es masze aRar aris damokidebuli.

yvelafers sazogadoebis aqtiuroba

da reaqcia gadawyvets.

Cven ki vsaubrobT arCevnebis

gayalbebaze, magram ismis kiTxva, _

Catardeba ki saerTod arCevnebi?

esec unda gairkves. opoziciam axlave

unda gadawyvitos, erTiani

frontiT gava erTis winaaRmdeg,

Tu erTianiad gamoucxadebs

boikots saparlamento arCevnebs?

_ Tqveni azriT, ra gzas

airCevs opozicia?

_ maTi gadawyvetileba imaze

iqneba damokidebuli, Tu ra procesebi

wava aq. Cemi azriT, boikoti

ufro efeqtiani iqneboda. er-

Tiani frontiT gamarjveba, parlamentSi

Sesvla, mere parlamentis

daSla da vadamdeli saparlamento

arCevnebis Catareba bevrad

ufro rTuli gza mgonia.

ar warmovadgen opozicias da

ar vici, ras gadawyveten isini, samagierod,

eWvi ar mepareba, rom

xalxi yvelafers ise aRar gaatarebs,

rogorc aqamde atarebda.

xelisuflebam unda icodes, rom

gayalbebas saTanado pasuxi moyveba.

saprezidento arCevnebis gayalbeba

imitom gaatares, rom maSin

jer kidev sxva situacia iyo _ ar

iyo 20 ivnisi. „gavrilovis Ramis”

mere sazogadoeba Zalian Seicvala...

da qveyanac Seicvala.

_ rac mTavaria, dasavleTmac

Secvala damokidebuleba saqar-

Tvelos mimarT, aseT dros dasavleTis

mxardaWera ki aucilebe-

lia.

_ ra Tqma unda, mniSvnelovania.

dasavleTSi gakeTebuli gancxadebebi

mafiqrebinebs, rom saqarTveloSi

arCevnebis gayalbebas arc

isini Seeguebian. „ocnebas” Zalian

gauWirdeba. ceskosac gauWirdeba

imave Sedegebis gamocxadeba, rasac

xelisufleba winaswar dadebs.

winaswari Sedegebis gamocxadebisas

„ocnebam” unda ifrTxilos.

gvaxsovs, ra moxda saprezidento

arCevnebis pirveli turis Semdeg.

irakli kobaxiZem salome zurabiSvili

gamarjvebulad gamoacxada,

magram Semdeg ukan mouwia naTqvamis

waReba.

darwmunebuli var, ivaniSvili

arCevnebis gayalbebaze uars ar

ityvis, magram uimedod mainc ar

var. „endiais” mier gamoqveynebuli

kvleva ki Semdegi daskvnis gakeTebis

saSualebas maZlevs:

1) miSa reitingebSi yvelanairad

uswrebs ivaniSvils _ meti dadebiTi

da naklebi uaryofiTi SefasebiT.

es garRvevaa, radgan realurad

am or politikoss Soris

aris gayofili politikuri veli;

2) ivaniSvils aqvs yvelaze meti

uaryofiTi Sefaseba da is Tanabrad

dgas salome zurabiSvilTan.

es katastrofaa misTvis. salome

zurabiSvili sayovelTaod

aRiarebuli fskeria da mis gverdiT

yofna ganaCenia;

3) dasavluri orientacia;

4) eklesiis reitingis katastrofuli

vardna. am mxriv, sazogadoebam

bolos da bolos,

Riad amoRerRa, ras fiqrobda da

rogor afasebda eklesiis umsgavso

qmedebebs. maT Soris aRsaniSnavia

bolo Tveebis radikaluri

kleba. anu pandoras yuTi gaixsna;

5) partiebis reitingSi yvelaferi

naTelia.

saboloo jamSi, es iribi Sefasebebi

da mkveTri cvalebadoba mas-

Si damatebiTi faqtorebia da imis

saSualebas iZleva, rom am mxriv

kvlevis sandooba naklebad saeWvo

gaxdes.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

35


`sapatriarqo gamudmebiT axal-axal avantiurebSi gvxvevs~

koka wereTeli

qarTul sazogadoebaSi sxvadasxva

dros aqtiurdeba qveyana-

Si monarqiis aRdgenis sakiTxi. am

procesebis ukan mudam saqarTve-

los eklesia _ ufro Tu davazustebT

_ sapatriarqo moiazre-

ba. am sakiTxze „qronika+~ Teolog

guram lursmanaSvils es-

aubra:

_ mefe da monarqia _ qarTuli

sazogadoeba periodulad iw-

yebs xolme am Temaze saubars.

gvaxsovs araerTi magaliTi,

rodesac politikuri partiebic

provocirebdnen Temas. metic:

gvaxsovs maTi warmomadgenlebis

xleba samefo ojaxisa Tu ojaxe-

bis wevrebTan. da am yvelafris

ukan xilulad Cans eklesiis, sa-

patriarqos interesi. guram,

rogoria procesis Seneuli xed-

va da Sefaseba?

_ Cvens sazogadoebasa da saeklesio

wreebSi monarqiaze saubari

sakmaod popularulia. es rom

ubralo saubari yofiliyo, Sei-

Zleboda, saerTod ar migveqcia

yuradReba, magram naTlad vxedavT

konkretul ideologiur

propagandas, sapatriarqos mxridan

gadadgmul nabijebs da a. S.

saSineleba isaa, rom garkveuli

pirebi monarqias maTlmadideblobisTvis

„yvelaze Sesaferis”

mmarTvelobis formad gvasaReben,

rac garda imisa, rom wm. weriliseuli

Txrobis sawinaaRmdegoa,

aseve qveynisTvis seriozuli safrTxea.

Sesabamisad, saWiroa, rom

SeZlebisdagvarad da nabij-nabij

Tema mimovixiloT.

_ wminda werilis sawinaaRm-

dego ratom?

_ qristianisTvis yvelafris

amosavali wyaro wminda werilia,

Sesabamisad, upirvelesad, Tavad

wminda werilidan unda daviwyoT

am sakiTxis garkveva. gavixsenoT,

rodis Cndeba israelis xalxSi

pirvelad mefobis dawesebis survili.

es xdeba samuelis epoqaSi.

samuelis wignSive naTlad aris

pasuxi imaze, rom wm. werilis

mixedviT, mefoba RmerTis uaryofis

tolfasia, saxeldobr: „axla

uaryofT Tqvens RmerTs, romelmac

gixsnaT Znelbedobasa da gasa-

WirSi, radgan eubnebiT: mefe dagvidgineo.

aba, warudeqiT ufals

TqvenTqveni tomisa da gvareulobis

mixedviT” (1mef.10.19). amis

garda, wminda werilSi aseve gafr-

Txilebacaa im damazianebeli Sedegebis

Sesaxeb, rasac mmarTvelobis

es forma gamoiwvevs.

_ ras gulisxmob?

_ „11. uTxra: ai, ra uflebebi

eqneba mefes, romelic imefebs

Tqvenze: waiyvans Tqvens Svilebs

da Tavis etlebTan da cxenebTan

daiyenebs da irbenen misi etlis

win. 12. daniSnavs maT aTasisTavebad

da ormocdaaTisTavebad,

Tavis yanis mxvnelebad da Tavisi

samkalis mosamkelad, Tavisi sabrZolo

saWurvelisa da etlebis

mkeTeblebad. 13. aiyvans Tqvens

asulebs menelsacxebleebad, mzareulebad

da puris mcxoblebad.

14. wagarTmevT saukeTeso yanebs,

venaxebsa da zeTisxilis baRebs da

Tavis morCilebs daurigebs. 15.

meaTeds aiRebs Tqveni naTesebidan

da venaxebidan da Tavis kariskacebsa

da morCilebs uwyalobebs.

16. wagarTmevT saukeTeso ymebs,

mxevlebs, msaxur biWebs, saxedrebs

da Tavis saqmeze amsaxurebs. 17.

waiRebs meaTeds Tqveni faridan

da Tqvenc misi ymebi gaxdebiT. 18.

maSin mohyvebiT wuwuns Tqven ar-

Ceul mefeze, magram ar mogismenT

ufali”. (1mef.11-18) ai, aseTi uaryofiTi

damokidebuleba aqvs wminda

werilis mixedviT RmerTs

monarqiis mimarT.

_ magram am yvelafris miuxe-

davad israels hyavda mefe...

_ diax, ra xdeba amis Semdeg?

israels marTlac eyoleba mefe,

magram ara imitom, rom es iyo

RmerTis survili, aramed imitom,

rom xalxs surda ase da RmerTmac

pativi sca xalxis arCevans.

Sesabamisad, mTel im uaryofiT

movlenebze, rac am yvelafers

moyva, pasuxismgeblobas mTlianad

xalxi iRebda sakuTar Tavze.

meore sakiTxi es aris bizantiis

imperia. xSirad am imperias gvixataven,

rogorc eklesiisa da saxelmwifos

urTierTobis saukeTeso

models, rac sicruea. es problema

rom kargad gavaanalizoT,

upirvelesad, is unda gaviazroT,

rom bizantiis imperia ar daarsebula,

rogorc Tvisobrivad axali

imperia, piriqiT, igi iyo romis

erTiani imperiis aRmosavle-

Ti nawili. Sesabamisad, amave im-

guram lursmanaSvili:

`Cveni

Tanamoqalaqeebis

nawili Tavisuflebis

ideas ver swvdeba~

periis mowyobisa Tu politikis

formebic minimaluri cvlilebebiT

gadmoitana sakuTar praqtika-

Si. samwuxarod, igive moxda eklesiasTan

dakavSirebiTac. romSi imperatori

iyo Pontifex Maximus (uzenaesi

qurumi, _ avt.), Sesabamisad,

mas araTu SeeZlo religiur sakiTxebSi

Careva, aramed movalec

iyo, rom sakuTari politikuri

miznebisamebr religia gamoeyenebina.

igive sistema gagrZelda aRmosavleT

romis imperiaSic, oRond

im gansxvavebiT, rom Tu iqamde

imperatori kerpTayvanismcemelTa

saqmeebSi ereoda, axla ukve

saeklesio sakiTxebsac wyvets. aq

ukve vxvdebiT saepiskoposo kaTedrebis

daarsebas imperiis politikurad

gavlenian qalaqebSi, eklesiaSi

simdidrisa da fufunebis

elementebis gaCenas, politikur

intrigebsa da a. S. mokled,

yvelafer imas, rasac qristes

mier daarsebuli eklesia safuZvelSive

ewinaaRmdegeboda. metic:

Tu gadavxedavT eklesiis wiaRSi

gaCenil mwvaleblobebs, davinaxavT,

rom maT absolutur umravlesobas

politikuri sarCuli

hqonda da yalibdeboda imitom,

rom saimperatoro karsa da saeklesio

wreebs Soris Zalian CaxlarTuli

politikuri intrigebi

iCenda Tavs.

_ da es yvelaferi xom axden-

da gavlenas eklesiaze?

_ am yvelaferma eklesia Zalian

ratom cdilobs

sapatriarqo qveyanaSi

monarqiis aRdgenas?

daaziana. Tavad qristes swavlebebsac

SeewinaaRmdega, romelic

yovelgvari orazrovnebis gareSe

gvaswavlida saero da saeklesio

xelisuflebis erTmaneTis

saqmeebSi Caurevlobis Sesaxeb.

_ Tumca Cven mudmivad sxvagvar

interpretaciebs vismenT ek-

lesiis mesveurebisgan...

_ kidev didxans SeiZleba imaze

saubari, Tu ramdenad Seusabamoa

monarqia qristesa Tu wminda werilis

swavlebebTan da praqtikaSi

ramdenad daaziana saeklesio sxeuli

monarqebis Carevam, Tumca

ar msurs, rom istoriuli Tu

Teologiuri sakiTxebiT Tqveni

mkiTxveli gadavRalo, amitom

ufro praqtikul Temaze gadaval.

ratom unda qarTvelebis nawils

monarqiis aRdgena?

_ zustad es aris saintereso...

_ amas aqvs rogorc socialuri,

aseve religiuri sarCulic.

umTavresi problema es sazogadoebis

nawilSi arsebuli ganwyobaa,

romlis gamoc Cvens Tanamoqalaqes

erTpirovnuli mmarTvelis

gareSe Tavisuflad cxovreba

ar SeuZlia. es mmarTveli Sei-

Zleba iyos mefe, imperatori, beladi,

vinc gnebavT is, romelic

„mtkice xeliT” marTavs qveyanas.

am yvelafers ki is iwvevs, rom

Cveni Tanamoqalaqeebis nawili

Tavisuflebis ideas ver swvdeba,

rac Zalian bevri problemis saTavea.

meore Sre aris religia da

e. w. urapatriotizmi. 90-ianebSi,

rodesac saqarTvelom damoukidebloba

moipova, Cvens qveyanaSi

erTgvari axali tipis qristianoba

gaCnda _ „qarTuli marTlmadidebloba”,

romlisTvisac butaforiuli

iaraRi daviTisa da

Tamaris epoqa gaxda. ai, msgavsi

mentalitetis xalxi sapatriarqos

yvela mowodebas dauWers

mxars, romelic „mironcxebuli

monarqis” gamefebisken iqneba mimarTuli.

_ am yvelafris muxedavad,

msoflios araerT saxelmwifoS-

ia monarqia...

_ ra Tqma unda, vinme SeiZleba

SegvewinaaRmdegos, rom, vTqvaT,

did britaneTSi an sxva ganviTarebul

qveynebSic SeiZleba, monarqias

SevxvdeT. es, qarTul realobasTan

SedarebiT, saerTod sxva

ganzomilebaa. pirveli imitom,

rom msgavs qveynebSi monarqia

ufro metad istoriisa da kulturuli

memkvidreobis nawilia,

vidre im xelisufalis, romelic

pirdapiri mniSvnelobiT marTavs

qveyanas; xolo meore ganzomileba

is didi finansuri resursebia,

rac msgavs „dekoratiul monarqias”

sWirdeba. dameTanxmebiT,

rom arc erTi da arc meore saqarTvelos

viTarebas ar Seesabameba.

sakiTxs SegviZlia ufro globalur

WrilSi SevxedoT. gadavxedoT

Cvens regions, ra qveynebi

gvyavs garSemo. maT absolutur

umravlesobaSi, ZiriTadad, iseTi

politiikuri liderebi marTaven

qveyanas, romlebic aTwleulze

metia, uryevad arian mokalaTebulni

sakuTr taxtze. am garemo-

Si ki lamis erTaderTi oazisia

saqarTvelo, sadac xelisufleba

mSvidobiani revoluciiTa Tu

arCevnebiT Seicvala. Sesabamisad,

Tu saqarTveloSic moxdeba ise,

rom gveyoleba monarqi da es

monarqi Tavisi Caketili da eTnofiletisturi

marTlmadideblobiT

ruseTTan, „mesame romTan”,

loialur politikas gaatarebs,

warmoidgineT, ramdenad gaumartivdeba

Cvens Crdiloel mezobels

Cveni qveynis Sida saqmeebSi

xelis faTuri da sakuTari imperialisturi

miznebis ganxorcieleba.

yovelive zemoTqmuli

rom SevajeroT, vnaxavT, Tu

raoden rTul TamaSSi gviTrevs

sapatriarqo Cveni mosaxleobis

advilad mowyvlad jgufebze manipulirebiT.

_ da mainc, ra motivi aqvs sa-

patriarqos?

_ diax, sapatriarqo vaxseneT

da CamovTvaloT is mizezebi, Tu

ratom unda surdes ase mondomebiT

Cvens qveyanaSi mas monarqiis

daweseba: 1. es iqneba erT-erTi

gvirgvini im dRemde amouxsneli

„miTosuri qristianobisa”, romlis

danergvasac saqarTveloSi es

instituti dRemde jiutad cdilobs;

2. gazrdili finansuri Semosavali,

rac gardauvali iqneba

am stilis qveynidan monarqiaze

gadasvlis SemTxvevaSi; 3. sakuTri

gavlenebis kidev ufro ganmtkiceba;

4. saqarTveloSi Tavisuflebis,

rogorc idealis Caqveskneleba;

5. kidev erTi nabiji saqar-

Tvelos Sua saukuneebSi dasabruneblad;

6. monarqiis dawesebiT

ufro metad gaadvildeba rusuli

ZalebisTvis saqarTvelos ideologiuri

(da ara marto) okupacia.

samwuxaroa, rom saqarTvelos

saxelmwifos damoukideblobis

mopovebis Semdeg sapatrarqo

Riad Cans, rogorc gavleniani instituti,

romelic araTu yovelmxriv

aferxebs saqarTvelosa da

misi eklesiis namdvil ganviTarebas,

aramed gamudmebiT axal-axal

avantiurebSi cdilobs Cvens gaxvevas,

risi erT-erTi magaliTic

monarqiis dawesebis Tanmimdevruli

mcdelobaa.

_ gmadlobT. mesmis, rom meore

mxaresac eqneba sakuTari argumentebi

monarqiis dasacavad, magram,

amjerad, sakmaod saintereso

argumentebi da msjelo-

ba movismine.

_ didi madloba, rom dainteresdiT

da am mniSvnelovan sakiTxze

Temis momzadeba gadawyviteT.

36

36 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

maka mosiaSvili

599 97 25 55

is 200-ze meti samecniero naS-

romis, sami saxelmZRvanelos, ori samecniero atlasisa da 20-

mde monografiis avtoria. mis mier Catarebuli kvlevis safuZvelze

Seswavlilia mTis havis Camoyalibebis meqanizmis mravali

sakiTxi; mis mier gaanalizebul kavkasiis klimatebis vertikalur

struqturas maRali Sefaseba misca akademikosma ino-

kenti gerasimovma. gamovlenili aqvs saqarTvelos klimaturi,

maT Soris, sakurorto da energetikuli resursebis Tavisebu-

rebani. yuradReba dauTmo globaluri daTbobis problemas.


me samecniero centrs. sxvagvarad

mecniereba haerSia gamokiduli,

samecniero-kvleviT institutebSi

nadgurdeba arsebuli

samecniero potenciali,

romelic gacilebiT Zlieria

kaTedrebis Sesabamis potencialze.

universitetebs ar scaliaT

institutebisTvis da mxolod

avtorizaciis dros sa-

specialobaTa sakvalifikacio

CarCo SemoiRes, sadac geografia

saerTod ar figurirebda.

siaSi warmodgenili iyo garemosmcodneoba,

geomorfologia,

geoekologia da a. S.

cnobisTvis: sakvalifikacio

CarCos Sesabamisad jer Sevqmeni

sabakalavro programa garemosmcodneobaSi,

magram ramden-

sad aris geomorfologia, klimatologia,

niadagebis geografia,

bunebaTsargebloba, kartografia?

usamarTloa geografiis specialobis

daufinansebloba, ma-

Sin rodesac zust da sabunebismetyvelo

mecnierebaTa yvela

specialobas afinansebs saxelmwifo.

aman mniSvnelovnad Seam-

elizbar elizbaraSvili:

`saqarTvelos

mecniereba

momakvdavia!~

„qronika+~-is stumaria qar-

Tveli geografi, geografiul

mecnierebaTa doqtori, profesori,

saqarTvelos ekologiur

mecnierebaTa akademiis akademikosi,

saerTaSoriso Jur-

nal „European Geographical Studies”-is

(slovakeTi) mTavari re-

daqtoris moadgile, amerikis

SeerTebuli Statebis biogr-

afiuli institutis mrCevelTa

sabWos wevri, msoflio bankis

eqsperti hidrometeorologi-

is dargSi, Rirsebis ordenis

kavaleri _ elizbar elizbara-

Svili.

es aris interviu, ufro

sworad, aRSfoTebuli da gab-

razebuli mecnieris werili

ganaTlebis ministrsa da ganaTlebis

saministros umaRle-

si ganaTlebisa da mecnierebis

arsebuli sistemis Sesaxeb:

_ ra mdgomareobaSia saqar-

TveloSi mecniereba?

_ saqarTvelos mecniereba

momakvdavia. iyo wesieri dro,

roca saqarTvelos mecniereba-

Ta akademia, masSi Semaval samecniero-kvleviT

institutebTan

erTad, saqarTvelos mTavrobis

mrCevlad miiCneoda. es er-

Tiani msxvili samecniero gaer-

Tianeba gaxldaT, romelsac

nebismier sakiTxze SeeZlo

gaewia mTavrobisTvis konsultaciebi.

dRes ki akademiidan

institutebi universitetebSi

gadaisroles. isini, samwuxarod,

ver Seerwynen universitetebs,

radganac universitetebisTvis

zedmet bargs warmoadgendnen.

metic: zogierTma, magaliTad,

ilias universitetma,

agrarulma universitetma, gaauqma

kidec ramdenime instituti.

SedarebiT ukeTes mdgomareobaSi

aRmoCnda is institutebi,

romelic ivane javaxiSvilis

saxelobisa da saqarTvelos

teqnikur universitetebs gadaeca.

miuxedavad amisa, isini ver

CaerTnen universitetis saswavlo

samecniero procesSi, saganmanaTleblo

programebSi da,

faqtobrivad, universitetis

cxovrebaSi ar monawileoben,

misTvis zedmet tvirTs warmoadgenen.

amis uaryofiTi Sedegebi

saxezea.

_ magaliTad?

_ rodesac 2019 wlis april-

Si azerbaijanelma mesazRvreebma

daviTgarejs Seuties da

arasamTavrobo organizaciebma

saqarTvelos akademiuri wreebis

CarTva moiTxoves, Cven ase-

Ti pirovnebebi aRar aRmogvaCnda,

radgan isini didi xnis

Carecxilebi iyvnen. calke sakiTxia

institutebis dafinanseba.

aq saubari zedmetia saerTa-

Soriso donis mecnierTa mwir

xelfasze. mTavari problemaa,

rom institutebs saSualeba ar

gaaCniaT, moawyon Tanamedrove

samecniero-kvleviTi laboratoria,

Caataron eqspedicia,

aRzardon axalgazrda mecnierebi,

radganac gauqmebulia

maZieblobis, aspiranturisa da

doqtoranturis institutebi,

rac Cvenma mezobelma respublikebma

SeinarCunes da amiT

mecnierebis donec aamaRles.

_ SeZlebs ki saministro am

problemebis gadaWras, roca

Tavad sakmaod bevri mima-

rTulebiTaa gaerTianebuli?

_ aqve Secdomad mimaCnia ganaTlebisa

da mecnierebis, kulturisa

da sportis saministroebis

SeerTeba. Cemi azriT, ganaTlebisa

da mecnierebis saministro

ufro iyo dasaSleli.

calke unda gamoeyos ganaTlebis

saministro, xolo mecnierebis

komponenti SeuerTdes mecnierebaTa

akademias an sxva rai-

rgebloben maTi miRwevebiT. aucilebelia

samecniero-kvlevi-

Ti institutebis ganTavisufleba

universitetebisgan da maTi

damoukidebeli ganviTareba.

saerTodac, umaRlesi gana-

Tlebisa da mecnierebis sferos

mTavari problema Sesababisi

sabaziso dafinansebis ararsebobaa.

dafinansebis gareSe dargi

ver ganviTardeba. ganaTleba

da mecniereba ki saxelmwifos

mSeneblobis safuZvelia,

amitom saWiroa, xelisuflebam

Secvalos damokidebuleba dargis

mimarT da is erT-erT mTavar

prioritetad miiCnios.

verafriT Seveguebi im

faqts, rom Cems aRmzrdel universitetSi,

sadac Cemi studentobisa

da muSaobis periodSi

proreqtorebad iseTi damsaxurebuli

adamianebi moRvaweobdnen,

rogorebic iyvnen akademikosebi

viqtor kupraZe, maTe mirianaSvili,

sergo jorbenaZe,

SoTa mesxia, nodar kekeliZe,

levan aleqsiZe da sxva gamoCenili

mecnierebi, dRes sruliad

daumsaxureblad iniSnebian

gamoucdeli da dargis armcodne

adamianebi. es arc universitetis

damaarseblebs moewonebodaT

da _ arc Cvens

winaprebs.

me ganvixile zogierTi problema,

rac zedapirze Cans, xolo

Tu CavuRrmavdebiT, maSin gacilebiT

meti aRmoCndeba. sinamdvileSi

ki umaRlesi ganaTlebisa

da mecnierebis aseTi sistemiT

veraviTari swavlebis

xarisxi ver umjobesdeba da

mecnierebac ar viTardeba, vfiqrob

piriqiT uaresdeba da CamorCeba.

sabWoTa kavSiris daSlis Semdeg

arsebuli saganmanaTleblo

sistema daingra. „reformatorebma”

axali, sruliad gaugebari

ime weliwadSi sakvalifikacio

CarCos Secvlis gamo umal gaauqmes

specialoba ise, rom pirvel

nakads programis dasrulebac

ki ar acales, ise daSales

da gadaanawiles sxva specialobebze.

rogorc iqna, sakvalifikacio

CarCoSi Seitanes specialoba

geografia da Cemma sabakalavro

programamac warmatebiT

gaiara akreditacia. amave dros

aRmoCnda axali gaugebroba, _

specialobaTa sakvalifikacio

CarCoSi geografiis mimarTulebiT

swavlebis meore da mesame

safexurisTvis miTiTebuli

iyo hidrologia, meteorologia,

fizikuri geografia, geomorfologia

da kartografia.

am dros, meteorologia ar

aris geografiis Semadgeneli

nawili, is fizikis dargia. meteorologia

niSnavs atmosferos

fizikas da geofizikur mecnierebebs

ganekuTvneba, is ikvlevs

dedamiwis atmosferoSi

mimdinare fizikur procesebs.

aq unda yofiliyo klimatologia,

geografiuli mecniereba,

romelic ikvlevs meteorologiuri

procesebisa da klimatebis

geografiul kanonzomierebebs.

ukeTesi iqneboda _ meteorologia,

klimatologia.

axlaxan gamoqveynebulma sakvalifikacio

CarCom (2019w.) gadaaWarba

Cvens molodinebs. ekologia

gamotanilia, rogorc

damoukidebeli sabunebismetyvelo

dargi, rac araseriozulia,

radganac ekologia sworedac

dargTaSorisi mecnierebaa

biologiis, geografiis, fizikisa

da socialur mecniereba-

Ta zRvarze da iyenebs maTematikis

fundamentur miRwevebsa

da modelirebis principebs.

amave dros, geografiul mecnierebaSi

gamokveTilia mxolod

2 mimarTuleba _ geografiuli

sainformacio teqnologiebi

da hidrologia. ganaTlebis

saministros mesveurebs, _

maT, vinc gza-kvali aubnia uma-

Rles ganaTlebas, vekiTxebi:

cira am specialobaze Semomsvlel

studentTa raodenoba,

Tumca bevrs surs. didia agre-

Tve moTxovna geografiis maswavleblebze.

magaliTad, kaxeTis

regionis skolebSi geografias

aswavlis filologi,

biologi, istorikosi, iuristi,

agronomi, finansisti da a. S.

amave dros, moqmed geografiis

maswavlebelTa 80%-mde arasertificirebulia.

kritikas ver uZlebs studentTa

Sefasebis sistema. Sefasebis

100-qulian sistemaSi Ti-

Toeuli qula gawerilia, rac

xelovnurad aris Seqmnili da

verc erTi profesori studentis

Sefasebisas amas ver iTvaliswinebs,

amitom Sefasebac formaluria.

warmoudgenlad gaizarda

silabusis moculoba, amas emateba

kidev sxva dokumentebi,

formebi, angariSebi da sxv. imis

magivrad, rom profesorma sakuTar

Tavze imuSaos leqciebis

mosamzadeblad, is qaRaldomaniiT

aris dakavebuli.

arasworia midgoma saxelmZRvaneloebis

mimarT. axali saxelmZRvaneloebi

yovelwliurad

ar iwereba. saxelmZRvanelom

unda gaiaros gamocda ramdenime

weli, SeiZleba 10-15 welic,

sanam ukeTesi ar Seiqmneba. midgoma,

rom axali saxelmZRvanelo

ukeTesia, arasworia.

samarcxvinoa e. w. riderebis

SemoReba, rac gulisxmobs sxvadasxva

Zveli, xSirad klasikuri,

saxelmZRvaneloebis daqseroqsebas.

irRveva saxelmZRvanelos

struqtura, Sinaarsi da

studenti Rebulobs raRac sakiTxebis

daqucmacebul nakrebs,

sadac sakiTxebi araviTar urTierTkavSirSi

ar aris.

saerTod, uaryofiTi Sedegi

gamoiRo universitetebisTvis

avtonomiurobis miniWebam. rigma

universitetebma Semoitanes

regulaciebi, romelic ewinaa-

Rmdegeba saqarTvelos konstituciasa

da kanons umaRlesi ganaTlebis

Sesaxeb.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

37


qarTuli oqro srialebs

es ukve sxva saqmea. lamazi sizmari,

romelic cxadad iqca. lozanaSi,

sadac zamTris axalgazrduli

olimpiuri TamaSebi gaxurebulia,

saqarTvelos oqros medalic

Seemata. zafxulis saxeobebSi es

ambavi ar gvikvirs. is ki ara, erTxel

mainc ase rom ar moxdes, sportis

qarTveli gulSematkivrebi,

specialistebi da Jurnalistebi im

TamaSebs aucileblad warumateblad

Seracxaven, magram zamTarSi

oqro ki ara, medalic CvenTvis did

fufunebad moCans.

lozanaSi gamarTul zamTris

mesame axalgazrdul olimpiur TamaSebze

ki esec daimsxvra da saqarTvelom

medlebis aTvla daiwyo.

cota xnis win iyo, figurul ciguraobaSi

alina butaevasa da luka

berulavas wyvilma brinjaos medali

rom daisakuTra, 15 ianvars ki

maT TavianTi Seqmnili istoria

gadaweres da Cempionis tituli

moipoves.

figurul ciguraobaSi medlebis

bolo kompleqti gaTamaSda, sadac

gamarjvebisTvis Sereuli internacionaluri

gundebi ibrZodnen.

TiToeuli gundi Sedgeboda

mocekvave da sportuli wyvilebis,

gogonaTa da vaJTa erTeulTa

Tanrigis figuristebisgan. swored

am disciplinaSi gaimarjva gundma,

romlis SemadgenlobaSic Sedioda

alina butaeva-luka berulavas

qarTuli wyvili.

saqarTvelos figuristebTan

erTad olimpiuri oqros medlebi

miiRes estoneTis, ruseTisa da

iaponiis sportsmenebma. estoneTi

vaJTa erTeulebSi iyo warmodgenili,

ruseTi _ gogonaTa erTeulebSi,

iaponia _ cekvebSi, saqarTvelo

ki _ wyvilebSi. am disciplinaSi

sul 8 gundi gamodioda. gamarjvebulma

gundma konkurentebs

sakmao upiratesobiT gauswro.

saqarTvelo fineTs

ver gadaaxta

flei ofi ori TamaSisgan Sedgeba, ori TamaSi ki oTxi taimia.

saqarTvelos xelburTelTa nakrebi finelebs Tbilissa da riihimiakiSi

sami taimis ganmavlobaSi Tanabrad daudga, meoTxeSi ki, samwuxarod,

Cvens gunds daudga yvelaferi yiraze. mizezs, rasakvirvelia,

mSvidad gamokvleva sWirdeba. evropis Cempionatis flei-ofamde

mosasvlelad qarTvelebs mTeli wlis ganmavlobaSi bevri saintereso

Tavgadasavali gadaxdaT. maT Sorisaa zafxulSi, Tbilis-

Si, msoflios erTa CempionatSi gamarjvebac.

albaT, mixvdiT, vcdilobT, guli gavikeToT da momavals mainc

imediT SevxedoT. saqarTvelosa da fineTis Tbilisuri Sexvedris

angariSi iyo 24:24. sapasuxo matCis pirveli taimi damTavrda 14:12

finelebis sasargeblod, ai, matCis saboloo angariSi ki 37:21 gam-

ovida.

da ena ar mogvibrundeba, romelime qarTvel xelburTelze vTqvaT,

TamaSSi mTeli guli ar Cadoo, magram… rogorc zemoT ramdenjerme

aRvniSneT, nikola maqsimoviCis gundSi meore taimis me-

3 wuTidan raRac moiSala da TamaSis bedic mas mere gadawyda.

oRond kerZod ra moiSala, amaze specialistebi dawynarebul

gulze ukeT ilaparakeben.

saqarTvelom meore naxevris 25-e wuTidan, ubralod, goli ve-

Rar Seagdo… bolo wamamde. Tu amiT damSvideba SeiZleba, bolo

goli Cveni iyo.

38

Suquris ambavi

Turqi haqan Suquri, Tavis droze,

msoflios saukeTeso mekareebs

SiSis zars scemda. mis karieraSi

yvelaferi iyo _ „bosforel xarad”

monaTluli fexburTelis monagarSi

msoflios 2002 wlis Cempionatis

brinjao, „galaTasaraisTan”

erTad mogebuli uefas Tasi da

FIFA-s versiiT msoflios saukeTeso

forvardis titulic iyo.

dRes es yvelaferi warsulia.

imdenad Rrma warsuli, rom misi

realobis Tavadac ar swams. karga

xani am warsulisgan amerikuli

gamoZiebis federaluri biuroc

38 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

icavda...

yvelaferi ki... siyvaruliT daiwyo.

1995 wels, karieris zenitSi myofma

24 wlis Suqurma, romelic

maSin italiur „torinoSi” Tama-

Sobda, colis moyvana gadawyvita.

19 wlis esres mSoblebma uari

uTxres, _ gogona stambulis universitetSi

meore kursze swavlobda

da misi italiaSi gaSveba ar

isurves. swored maSin Seabija Suquris

cxovrebaSi politikam.

haqan Suquri erovnuli gmiriviT

iyo da evropaSi TurqeTis saxes

warmoadgenda. misi qorwilis

organizeba maSindelma premierministrma,

qalbatonma Tanju Cilerma

iTava. man ara mxolod gogonas

ojaxi daiyolia, Suquris qorwili

Turqulma arxebma pirdapir

eTerSi gadasces. axaldaqorwinebulTa

magidas stambolis maSindeli

meri, rejep Taif erdoRani da

xelismomkided miwveuli sazogado

moRvawe feThulah giuleni usxdnen.

ojaxi oTx TveSi daingra, esre

TurqeTSi gaiqca, haqanma ki meuRle

Zvirfaseulobis qurdobaSi

daadanaSaula. mogvianebiT, 2011

wels, erdoRanma da giulenma fexburTeli

sakuTar partiaSi miiwvies.

erdoRani qveynis prezidenti

gaxda. ori wlis Semdeg Suqurma

partia datova da xelisuflebis

kritika daiwyo usazRvro korufciis

gamo. male partia faThulah

giulenmac datova da saxelmwifo

gadatrialebaSi braldebas

aSS-Si gaqceviT daaRwia Tavi. igive

gza gaiara Suqurmac, romelsac

socqselebSi erdoRanis SeuracxyofisTvis

4-wliani patimroba

emuqreboda.

ukan darCa samSoblo, fexbur-

TiT naSovni milionebi, ZlierTa

ama qveynisebTan megobroba... ixsenebs

da Tavadac ar sjera, Tumca

ukve Seegua axal cxovrebas.

marto taqsistobas ar sjerdeba _

Tavisufal dros wignebs yidis...


borjRalosnebis axali mwvrTneli

pirvel Tebervals „dinamo arenaze”, rumineTis

nakrebTan matCiT, saqarTvelos erovnuli nakrebi

„ragbi evropis” 2020 wlis CempionatSi Caebmeba.

raRa darCa _ or kviraze odnav meti, magram

borjRalosnebs msoflio Tasis dasrulebidan

moyolebuli umwvrTnelod uwevT arseboba. „muxebis”

dasaxvedrad gunds levan maisaSvili moamzadebs

_ nakrebis yofili damrigeblis, milton

heigis asistenti da gundis dacvis mwvrTneli.

magram yvelas gvainteresebda, Tu vin Caibarebs

nakrebs srulfasovnad _ kontraqtiTa da momaval

msoflio Tasze saTamaSod. mTeli es periodi ar

wydeboda saubrebi, ufro ki Worebi ama Tu im kandidaturis

Sesaxeb, magram saqarTvelos ragbis

kavSiris prezidenti, goCa svaniZe, am sakiTxis ganxilvis

vadebad saprezidento arCevnebis Semdgom

periods asaxelebda da amas logikuradac ganmartavda.

„nakrebis mTavari mwvrTnelis Sedegebze da

warmateba-warumateblobaze kavSiris im xelmZRvanelobam

unda agos pasuxi, visi mmarTvelobis

drosac am konkretulma mwvrTnelma nakrebis saWe

Caibara. axla vinme rom moviyvano da nakrebi Cavabaro

da kavSirSi arCevnebis Sedegad gundi Seicvalos,

es xom usamarTloba iqneboda?” _ ambobda

goCa svaniZe.

axla ki arCevnebis TariRic cnobilia _- 30

ianvari da _ misi savaraudo monawileebic. savaraudo

imitom, rom oficialurad da saxalxod ganacxadi

mxolod Tavad svaniZes gaukeTebia, Torem

kavSiris maRali miRwevebis yofil menejer baCo

xurciZesa da borjRalosanTa eqs-kapitansa da am-

Jamad saqarTvelos parlamentis wevr irakli abuseriZes

mxolod prezidentobis survili aqvT

dafiqsirebuli. yovel SemTxvevaSi, ragbis kavSirs

amaze aranairi informacia ar gamouqveynebia.

da rad gvindoda iseTi Sesavali, romlis detalebic

mkiTxvelma isec icis? imad, rom am

dReebSi informaciam mainc gamoJona da iTqva, rom

nakrebs saTaveSi samxreTafrikeli specialisti

svis de broini Caudgeba.

vinaa svis de broini? esaa 59 wlis saragbo

mwvrTneli, romelsac gamocdileba samxreT afrikis

sxvadasxva donis klubebsa da nakrebebSi

aqvs dagrovili. am kacs samSoblos miRma arasdros

umuSavia da Tu goCa svaniZe saqarTvelos

ragbis kavSiris prezidenti momavali 4 wliTac

gaxdeba, zaxaria fransua de broini (esaa misi

sruli saxeli) Cvens nakrebs igive vadiT Caibarebs.

dasasrul ki davZenT, rom svis de broinis

bolo samuSao adgili samxreT afrikis erovnuli

nakrebia, sadac mas gundis Setevis gawvrTna evaleboda.

marTalia, zed msoflio Tasis dawyebis

win man piradi mizezebiT Tanamdeboba datova, magram

faqti faqtad rCeba, rom misi awyobili qurcikTa

Serkinebis SemCerebeli duniaze ver moiZebna.

vfiqrob, es isaa, vinc gvWirdeba...

biTaZis ianvari

warmatebuli ianvari aqvs „indiana

peiserss”, romelic SarSan oqtombridan

moyolebuli, anu mas Semdeg,

rac NBA-s morigi sezoni daiwyo,

qarTveli gulSematkivrebisa Tu

sportuli mediis mxridan gamadidebeli

SuSis qveS aris. aba, ra Sexsenebaa

saWiro, rom indianapolisel-

Ta rigebSi qarTuli kalaTburTis

imedi goga biTaZe iricxeba, romelic

„peisersma” draftze gamoarCia da

TavisTan waiyvana.

Cveneburic, sadebiuto sezonis

kvalobaze, urigod namdvilad ar gamoiyureba

da gundisTvis usargeblo an

bolo WanWiki sulac ar gaxlavT. erovnuli

sakalaTburTo asociaciis morig

turSic biTaZe „indiana peiserss”

zedized meoTxe gamarjvebaSi daexmara.

saqarTvelos nakrebis 20 wlis centrma

„minesotasTan” sakuTar moedanze

mogebul matCSi (116:114), parketze

10 wuTze meti dahyo da metoqis

kalaTSi 5 qulac Caagdo. gogam „minesotas”

fars zustad orjer Seutia,

erTi sajarimo tyorcna gamoiyena da

erTi moxsnac miiTvala.

momdevno matCi gogasa da indianas

denverSi hqonda _ 115:107. biTaZem

gunds konkretul droSi konkretuli

sargebeli moutana. gogam arasrul 6

wuTSi TamaSidan 2 srola gamoiyena da

4 qula aiRo 2 moxsnasTan erTad. man

limitirebul droSi mixeda saqmes.

makgregori 40

wamSi dabrunda

„aucilebelia, qomags kvlav vaCuqoT konorisa da habibis

brZola, magram ara moskovSi. makgregorma es daimsaxura

da wesiT nurmagomedovsac unda sWirdebodes. Tu habibi

jer fergiusons, xolo Semdeg konors kidev erTxel

ajobebs, sazogadoeba sabolood darwmundeba, rom is yvelaze

Zlieria da UFC-is istoriaSic saukeTesoebs amarcxebda.

ratom nebismier adgilze moskovis garda? amas ramdenime

axsna aqvs, Tumca ar davkonkretdebi. brZolis gamarTvis

idealur adgilad didi britaneTi, niu-iorki, teqsasi

an las-vegasi mimaCnia”, _ ambobs „brZola wesebis gare-

Ses” prezidenti dana uaiTi.

es vrceli komentari man mediasTan 19 ianvars las-vegas-

Si 40 wamSi dasrulebuli brZolis Semdeg gaakeTa, sadac

konor makgregorma donald serone ise mibegva, amerikeli

sportsmeni saavadmyofoSi wasayvani Seiqna. 36 wlis veteran

mebrZols irlandielisgan moqneuli muSti cxvir-pirSi

ramdenjerme Zlierad da zustad moxvda, ramac Tvalis

mwvave hematoma gamoiwvia. makgregori rom oqtagonze gasvlas

mowyurebuli iyo, es cxadad gamoCnda. TiTqos surda,

yvelasTvis daemtkicebina, rom misi Camowera jer naadrevia.

amitomac iyo, metoqes gaSmagebiT rom ekveTa da saqmec

wamebSi moumTavra.

SegaxsenebT, konor makgregori mas Semdeg, rac 2018 wlis

oqtomberSi habib nurmagomedovTan damarcxda, farTo auditoriis

winaSe aRar gamoCenila. dabruneba ki marTlac

STambeWdavi gamouvida.

N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

uefa da ronaldu

uefam 2019 wlis simboluri

nakrebi gamoaqveyna, romelic

gulSematkivrebis gamokiTxvis

Sedegad gaakeTa, Tumc bolo

wuTs erTi ucnauri ram moxda,

ris gamoc britanelma Jurnal-

istebma evropuli fexburTis

mmarTveli organos Cinovnikebi

kritikis qarcecxlSi gaatares.

saqme is aris, rom kriStianu

ronaldum lionel mesize, sadio

maneze da robert levandovskize

naklebi xmebi daagrokriStianus

uefas maRalCino-

va da wlis simbolurSi ver

snebze didi gavlena aqvs da

xvdeboda... uceb ki taqtikuri

Sedegmac egmac ar daayovna. oficial-

sqema Secvales, bolo xuTi wlis

urad ganacxades: ronaldu sim-

ganmavlobaSi damkvidrebuli 4-

bolurSi imitom SeviyvaneT,

3-3 gadaakeTes da 4-2-4 daadgportugaliis

nakrebma erTa Taines,

Sedegad, „gunds” erTi naxsis

pirveli gaTamaSeba rom moievarmcveli

(ngolo kante) gamo-

goo.

aklda da erTi Semtevi (kriS-

sabolood ki nakrebma aseTi

tianu ronaldu) daemata.

saxe miiRo

am nabijma seriozuli daRi

mekare: alisoni

SeiZleba daasvas gamokiTxvis

mcvelebi: aleqsander-ar-

namdvilobas.

noldi, de lixti, van deiki,

Tavidan Semadgenloba gasul

robertsoni

kviras unda gamoecxadebinaT,

naxevarmcvelebi: de iongi, de

magram erTi kviriT gadades.

bruini

rogorc aRmoCnda, ronaldus

Tavdamsxmelebi: mesi, mane,

gamo.

levandovski, ronaldu.

39

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

afiSa

Sindisi

amirani

15:00

jokeri

kavea siTi moli

16:30

malefisenti

kavea siTi moli

11:50

kavea isT foinTi

13:45

erTxel holivudSi

siTi moli

13:00

oboli bruklini

kavea siTi moli

13:50

oqros Zafi

amirani

17:30

Savi Soba

kavea siTi moli

17:00

ori naxviT Seyvareba

kavea galeria

22:00

kavea Tbilisi moli

16:45; 21:45

kavea siTi moli

19:30

kavea isT foinTi

19:10; 21:50

riCard jouelis saqme

amirani

19:45

kavea siTi moli

22:10


yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi

erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba

saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze

yovelkvireuli

gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari

pirveli gverdi:

1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;

meore-mesame gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;

Sida gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;

bolos wina gverdi:

1sm 2 _2 lari;

bolo gverdi:

1sm 2 _ 3 lari,

maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;

mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _

1000 sm 2;

reklama CanarTis saxiT:

A3 3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;

A4 4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;

mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)

afiSa

araswori dedikoebi

kavea galeria

17:15; 20:00

kavea Tbilisi moli

17:00; 19:40

kavea siTi moli

14:40; 19:15; 21:45

kavea isT foinTi

12:45; 17:10; 19:45; 22:15

katebi

amirani

12:30

kavea galeria

11:50; 14:10

kavea Tbilisi moli

12:10

kavea siTi moli

12:15; 14:45

kavea isT foinTi

11:40; 13:45

Suqura

amirani

20:00; 22:15

kavea siTi moli

17:15; 21:45

1 aSS dolari

2.8770

1 evro

3.1892

1 girvanqa sterlingi

3.7369

1 Sveicaruli franki

2.9703

100 rusuli rubli

4.6737

amindi

samSabaTi

oTxSabaTi

xuTSabaTi

paraskevi

SabaTi

kvira

orSabaTi

Tbilisi

5-7 0

6-8 0

5-7 0

4-6 0

3-5 0

6-8 0

7-9 0

quTaisi

4-6 0

3-5 0

4-6 0

5-7 0

4-6 0

8-9 0

8-10 0

baTumi

7-9 0

6-8 0

5-7 0

4-6 0

3-5 0

10-12 0

8-9 0

zugdidi

6-8 0

7-9 0

4-6 0

5-7 0

4-7 0

9-10 0

7-9 0

gori

3-5 0

2-4 0

2-3 0

1-2 0

1-2 0

4-6 0

3-5 0

Telavi

5-7 0

7-8 0

8-10 0

9-11 0

4-5 0

8-10 0

9-10 0

foTi

8-10 0

6-8 0

7-9 0

8-10 0

6-8 0

10-11 0

9-11 0

40

saredaqcio kolegia

yvela ufleba daculia;

`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli

masalebis nebismieri saxiT

gamoyeneba da gavrceleba

redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad

akrZalulia!

gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul

masalebs aqvT sareklamo

xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia

SeiZleba ar daemTxves

redaqciis Sexedulebas.

mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)

marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22

rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06

SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50

mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55

injgia nene 591 71 39 98

sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 90

qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40

laRaZe Sorena 557 56 23 66

deviZe daviT

stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;

redaqciis misamarTi:

Tbilisi, gudauris N3,

pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;

tel.: 294 69 77;

sareklamo ganyofileba,

gavrcelebis samsaxuri

Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10

gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~

ISSN 2346-8025

294 69 77;

qronikaqronika@gmail.com

40 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.

qronika+303

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