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1075 Political Parties and Elections Bill [LORDS] Political Parties and Elections Bill 1076 [LORD CAMPBELL-SAVOURS] future. I imagine a system—in the more propitious times to which the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, referred—where, annually, either some inflationary measure is applied to it or the threshold is raised. I think that we should be impressing on the Treasury, and on my friend Jack Straw in the other place, the importance of accepting an amendment of this nature in legislation. I do not know whether the Liberal Democrat Benches intend to push this to a vote today. However, if the amendment were to be carried, it would be possible during Commons consideration of Lords amendments for the Government to introduce a more appropriate sum—a sum that could be afforded. I simply wonder whether that might be in the mind of Ministers if they have to reject this amendment today. If it is rejected today, I can say to my noble friends that I will be lobbying fairly extensively over the next few days, prior to Third Reading, for perhaps some concession to be made by the Government. I hope that we do not simply say no out of hand and reject this for all time; I hope that we can perhaps see a little flexibility in the response from the Dispatch Box by my noble friend. Viscount Tenby: My Lords, I rise with some diffidence—and, perhaps the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, will be pleased to hear, briefly—to support Amendment 38. A great deal of money is thrown about at elections, as I experienced in my misspent youth when I was involved in the marketing and advertising professions, with all the profligacy of Russian oligarchs. No one disputes the need for realistic budgets, but the siren voices of advertising and marketing men should be firmly resisted. Nothing disconnects the electorate from the electoral process more than huge sums of money, hitherto camouflaged in some cases, being dispensed in this way, together with the unwillingness of politicians of every party to embrace the idea that the electors themselves should be asked to make very modest contributions to the electoral process. I do not wish to seem cynical, but it often seems that the more the amount of money spent in election campaigns rises, the more the number of people voting in elections falls. Surely this is a very unhealthy state of affairs, which I suggest we can put right today. Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market: My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 64 and 66, and to some extent to Amendment 65. As the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, said, I was a member of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, which first put forward this recommendation. I was very disappointed that this was one of the very few of our recommendations that the Government rejected in their response. Indeed, they never really gave any reasons against it, so I am very pleased that we are having this debate again today to talk about the principle and to see whether we can find some way forward. I should say to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, that I fully appreciate as an ex-Chief Secretary—I think this was what he was referring to—that we must be very careful in the current circumstances about the extent to which we encourage increased tax relief or extra expenditure. What I think we are really trying to do today is take advantage of the Bill, which gives us the opportunity to establish the principle. My one difficulty with his amendment is that he refers to £15 as the limit in 2010-11. Frankly, no one will take it up at that level. The administration would be very high, and if it seemed not to work it might be regarded as a policy that was not worth while. That is my difficulty with the figure. However, if we agree on the principle in the House today, there is still an opportunity to try to get it into legislation and to work out the timetable for it. The noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, in his usual exemplary fashion, gave all the reasons for accepting this proposal, so I shall emphasise just two points. The first relates to party funding. In my earlier years in politics, very many people in our constituencies spent a great deal of time not only actively campaigning but actively raising funds for party political work. That was hugely to the benefit of the democratic process. So much came from these small donations and fundraising activities, and it was entirely healthy. It spread interest in the democratic process, and spread political engagement much more widely. Equally, it is unhealthy to be too reliant on large personal donations; on substantial corporate funding, although that is largely diminished now if not defunct altogether; trade union support; and, above all, on state funding, which requires no activity beyond winning votes to get it. The principle here is therefore highly desirable and is a way of re-encouraging small donations. The emphasis is on small donations, which cannot be abused by large donors getting tax relief for them. We recommended the limit of £500 in 1998, so in principle I would be in favour of indexing beyond the £500 limit. The point that has been made about President Obama’s success in the American presidential elections is very clearly correct, too. This is an important way of encouraging wider participation in the political process. I shall put my second point, which goes much wider, very concisely. When I first entered public life and got involved in politics almost 50 years ago, and entered Parliament 35 years ago, it was a profession held in high regard. MPs were regarded with great respect in their constituencies and more widely, and it was a high aspiration to become an MP. Many in other careers entered Parliament half way through their active life because they felt that it was very worth while and were prepared to make sacrifices, including that of family life and financially, to do so. It is a matter of profound distress to me that parliamentary activity and the role of an MP are regarded in the way that they are today. I believe that nothing is more important than working for your constituents in the most important institution in the land. Above all, it is important to remember that Ministers are largely drawn from this pool. They make bigger and more profound decisions than others in leading positions in most walks of life. Yet those who aspire to these roles are being demeaned in public and, in my view, are seriously underpaid compared to those in leading positions in business, the professions and most other activities. My concern is not for the
1077 Political Parties and Elections Bill [17 JUNE 2009] Political Parties and Elections Bill 1078 good people in public life who are currently being so derided, but, above all, given the current environment, for the good people from other professions who would have a real role to play and could enter politics. That is one of the most serious things facing our nation. It will be easy enough perhaps to get people to stand, but it will be extremely difficult to get people of the quality we want in Parliament. I believe that this proposal plays some small part in dealing with that problem. Charitable activities are regarded as worth while and therefore attract relief. As the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, said, there is an interesting analogy with inheritance tax where this concept is accepted; yet we are not prepared to extend it to income tax. Therefore, I also take the point made by, I think, the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, in Committee. Many charities are engaged almost in political activity for which they get tax relief, but those who are primarily involved in the activity and want to support it get no tax relief at all. Taking this principle today, if not the immediate implementation, sends a message of profound importance, which is why I so strongly support it. Baroness Turner of Camden: My Lords, I am sorry that I have not been able for various reasons to participate earlier in discussion of this legislation. I should like to make one or two points on Amendment 39, and I speak as someone who has been a trade union official for most of my life. I understand the desire to ensure that there is proper democratic accountability for the use of funds and so on. However, there is already in place a fair amount of legislation designed to ensure just that. There are arrangements under which members can contract out of the obligation to pay the political levy at any time they wish to do so. The political funds are normally quite separate. The executive have to be accountable to the membership for their use of them. In my union and, I believe, in all unions, there is a section in the rule book which governs the way in which political funds are collected and administered. People can also complain to the registration officer. Under this amendment, there would seem to be a lot of extra bureaucracy, and I query whether it is necessary. If the present laws are operated—I have no evidence that they are not properly operated—I do not think that there is any necessity to have any further provision in legislation. I should be interested to know whether my noble friends on the Front Bench have a different view, but that is my view at present. 4.15 pm Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts: My Lords, my name is down in support of Amendment 38 covering the proposal to insert a £50,000 cap on donations. I wish my name had also gone down on Amendment 39, because I think they are paired, but owing to a gremlin somewhere, unfortunately that has not happened. The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, has outlined the case for the cap extensively and I do not propose to plough that field again. Suffice it to say that, for me, more supporters, more members and more donors in all political parties are good for our democracy because that achieves a broader base of support and involvement. Fewer, larger donors carry dangers for our democracy. I say “carry” dangers rather than necessarily have them. The obvious question is the influence of wealthy donors on the policies of a party, and here I touch on the point made by my noble friend Lord Ferrers: it is not just whether they do or they do not have an influence, but whether there is a public suspicion that they might. Public suspicion is highly corrosive, because it carries the seeds of destruction of belief in the system and the way it operates. That is why the argument that the liberty of a person to give any amount to a party, which underlay his comments earlier, does not hold water in this sensitive area. This idea poses challenges for the two major parties. Historically, my party has benefited from large donors, although in recent years the Labour Party has largely caught up; whether that has been to its advantage is not for me to say. The Labour Party also benefits from the automatic nature of the political levy of the trades unions. I say to the noble Baroness that I am afraid there is too much anecdotal evidence of the way in which the donations are shuffled through without individual trades union members having a real say, and that knocks on the head the idea that the safeguards proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, are not required. I do not underestimate the challenges that these issues represent and the controversy that they will arouse, but surely, in the present circumstances, we need to face them. As has been said in the debate today, as was said on Monday, and as was said in Committee, there is a crisis of loss of faith in our democratic system. It is no good us wringing our hands and saying that it is all too difficult. That is the response of people who live inside the Westminster bubble, and I believe that our fellow citizens demand more of us today. Lord Bates: In speaking to these amendments, perhaps I may preface my remarks by apologising to the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, because I was not precisely in my place when he spoke. I was finding my way through the crowd as he rose to move the amendment. There was a degree of cross-party harmony on the previous piece of legislation that may not continue into this Bill, but we will see. The series of amendments we are discussing fall into two principal areas. One is the argument about donations. We discussed this at length in Committee and it was quite widely recognised that there is an anomaly in party political contributions, which do contribute towards the democratic health of our country. Indeed, the point was just made that if one is concerned about the environment and chooses to make a donation to a political party, that money is not eligible for tax relief. If someone chooses to make a donation to Greenpeace or another organisation, it is. That is a clear anomaly which needs to be addressed at some stage, although I stress the point that it should be considered at some stage. The noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, said that the cost of such a measure to the Exchequer would be around £4 million. I have no way of knowing whether the figure should be higher or lower, but my sense of the public mood at this time suggests that it would be difficult to argue in favour of an additional £4 million or £5 million of public funding being made available for political parties. While certainly we on
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