Gerald W. Smith Memoir - Brookens Library

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Gerald W. Smith 214Q. Would these have really constituted penalties, or is this prettymuch local pride--not wanting to be treated differently from the newcomers?A. Well; 1 think you have to take into account what your definition of apenalty is. I would have felt that had I been the board of education ofa school district, or had I been the b od of trustees of one of theseexisting dfstricts, had I been the dean or president of such an institutionand operating a corramulity college program which I considered cornparable to those of the other districts of the State, but was not eligiblefor the same benefits, I believe I would have envisioned it as a penalty.Q. It is very understandable.A. I think that the language in the Master Plan meant that these peoplewere gofng to be allowed to continue their work, without taking anythingaway fYom them. Which was true. They weren't going to give them anyless in apportionment than they were getting. At the time they weren'teligible for any capital funding and I think that the term "without penalty,"if envisioned as meaning they won't take anything away from you, then youcan accept that, but if you saw yourself as perhaps being a pioneer in thedevelopment of colleges and then all of a sudden they were going to startanother one alongside you and give them advantages not available to you,you would feel that was a penalty.Another issue that developed during the period of tW that I am speakingabout was related to tuition. The Master Plan had recommended that thenew Illinois cornrmnity colleges established under the proposed new atatesystem should operate tuition free. The language says lttuition not becharged to any Illinois resident;" and that became an issue. And it becamean issue, for example, from several areas. Within the comitycollege system itself there was a difference of opinion. Some of thejunior colleges in Illinois charged tuition; back in the 1950's the deanshad struggled to get legislation that authorized the collection of tuition.Those distdcts that were charging tuition were in favor of continulthe tuition. There were districts in Illinois that did not charge tu "f tionand never had. Chicago had been operating since 1911 withoutThe Southern Illinois junior college district generallytuition. Those junior colleges were opposed to aso that there was a difference wfthin the area.leaders in higher education, there was a difference of opinion.END OF SIDE TWO TAPE ELEVENQ. Please go ahead Gerry with your discourse.A. There were those people among the institutions of higher educationand in the higher education cornunity who were of the opinion that if thecodty colleges were being made a part of the state system of highereducation, then tuition there was just as appropriate as it was in the seniorinstitution. They noted that it had always been a policy In Illinois to
Gerald W. Smith215IWge tuition at our state institutions and they thought that this asalso appropriate in the jwor colleges. Among the lay population o thestate the same differences existed. There were many people in the S ateof Illinois who felt that we owt to extend fYee education to the 1 thand 14th years in the jwor colleges without tuition, as ft was in thepublic school. There was another segment of the general population thatagreed that at some point in an educational career the student should beginto individually bear some of the cost. They believe that phllosophically,that this was appropriate beginning with the entrance into college,whether it be a two-year college or a four-year college. And so there wasa rather sharp divtsion.Q Well, I suppose the difference between these two points of view mayhave revolved around the two different concepts of the comunity college.If you look at the community college as just another of higher education,then presmbly there is no =ason why they shouldn't pay the same tuitionand the same way as the students in the university. On the other hand, andthis is a concept which was probably not too clear at that th, if youthink [of] it in terms of a means of getting large sepnts of the pcpulationready for higher education, who for one reason or another have notbeen able to make it to the level of achievement where they begin at theend of the high school year to pursue university studies, that mybe thenit could be justified as a public service which would be made available inthe same way as the public schools. To what extent were these differencesin philosophy apparent here?A. Yes, well I think that they were within the fra.mework that you discuss.I think those differences were articulated rather clearly. I think therewas a considerable amount of cofision. Some people were still thinking ofthe early William Mney Harper concept, of the Leonard Koos concept of theearly days of the junior colleges as an upward extension of the high schools.If it was an upward extension of the high school, then it was perhaps logicalto think of making attendance there tuition-free, just as it was upthrough the twelfth grade. But then there was this other school of thoughtthat said, welre no longer talking about comunity colleges as an upward+extensionof a high school. We're talking about a special education institutionin this state, with a special mission. It's post high school. Therefore,it's higher education, and therefore all aspects of it ought t beaddressed in relation to a branch of education operating within the ricansystem of higher education. Now, obviously this debate was notstricted to Illinois only. It was true in many states, and it was the samekind of debate In many states. At any rate, this was another one of $heissues that developed. Dr. Glenny and Dr. B m e remained articulate spokesmnfor the tuition-free institution throughout the total discussion andthroug21out the decision making period. Dr. Glenny who had done a number ofstudies in the fleld of higher edcation, was convinced that tuition was anobstacle to attendance in the post-high school yew to many people, andthat tuition in the junior college therefore would be an obstacle to attendane.Dr. Bme then was of the same opinion and he was totally devatedto the concept of the tuition-free institution. I believe if he were perewith us this morning, he would reiterate that position.Q. He wrate an article on this topic for Frontier1 s some time ago, whichhe said just that.1
Page 1 and 2: University of Illinois at Springfie
Page 3 and 4: Gerald W. Smith 201A. I would like
Page 5 and 6: Gerald W. Mth 20 3One of the outcom
Page 7 and 8: Gerald W. Smith 20514-Ipeople who h
Page 9 and 10: Gerald W. Wth 207Master Plan and th
Page 11 and 12: Gerald W.Smithof them have retired.
Page 13 and 14: Gerald W. Smith 211Q. There was lot
Page 15: Gerald W. Sr~Lth 2131As a counte~pr
Page 19 and 20: Gerald W.SmithA. And m n I'll speak
Page 21 and 22: Gerald W. Smith 219to continue with
Page 23 and 24: Gerald W. Smith 221A. The principal
Page 25 and 26: Gerald W.SmithQ. And who was it tha
Page 27 and 28: Gerald W. SMth 225who was skilled o
Page 29 and 30: Gerald W. Smith 227A. Generally spe
Page 31 and 32: Gerald W. mth 2 29climate fop it. B
Page 33 and 34: Gerald W. Smith 2 31discuss this as
Page 35 and 36: Gerald W. Smith 2 3Education; I'm t
Page 37 and 38: Gerald W.Smlth23Fjbut we would say
Page 39 and 40: Gerald W. Smith 237point out that i
Page 41 and 42: For example, when they met on the a
Page 43 and 44: Gerald W. Smith 241Hawk Cammity Col
Page 45 and 46: Gerald W. Smith 243was there wlth a
Page 47 and 48: Gerald W. Smith 245The following is
Page 49 and 50: 1people who were working wfth me a
Page 51 and 52: Gerald W. Smith 249I was looking in
Page 53 and 54: Gerald W. Smith 251.developnents ea
Page 55 and 56: Gerald W. Smith 253Secretm for the
Page 57 and 58: Gerald W. Smith 255He and I then wo
Page 59 and 60: Gerald W. Smith 257One of the peopl
Page 61 and 62: Gerald W.Smith259we always indicate
Page 63 and 64: Gerald W. Smith26rCentralia, 1940;M
Page 65 and 66: Gerald W.SmithJdor College Act ax i
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Gerald W. Smith 265districts, also
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Gerald W. Smith 267A. Yes, I think
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Q. That's an unbelievable record.A.
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So this is the story of Danville. I
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Gerald W. Smith 2 73Of course, you
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At the far south, a junlor college
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Gerald W. Smith 2 77FIe ad, In fact
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me, but he was not happy about it t
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Gerald W. Smith 281Q. Let me ask ya
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not understanding the le@slative pr
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Gerald W. Mth 2 85I tbhk it 2s inte
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Gerald W. Smith 287Board received a
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Gerald W. Smith 2 89land they were
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Gerald W. Smith 291Q. Now there was
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Q. Was there sane particular reason
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At any rate, it was a year before t
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A. Yes. He was the prbe mver and le
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Gerald W. Smith 9opportunity to org
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Gerald W. Wth 30 1of Cook County is
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A. ... even though the statutes pre
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Gerald W. Wth 30 5who actually, as
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Gerald W. Smith 30 7Their feasibili
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Gerald W.Wth309There were two quota
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Gerald W, Smith. -The referendum fo
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Gerald W. Smith 31 3In the Galesbur
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Gerald W.Smith315Q. This is perhaps
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Gerald W. Smith 317proposal - just
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Gerald W. Smith 319I would poht out
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Gerald W.Smith321$0 they were to go
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They enunciated a pollcy that was n
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Gerald FI, Wth325A. I have never se
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Gerald W. Wth 32 7A. Yes, the count
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Gemld W. Smith 329A. Well, yes, I a
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Q. This is a continuation of the in
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Gerald W. Smith 333were workin@; to
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Gerald W. Smith 335perhaps to take
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Gerald W. Smith 337'Rut north in Un
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Gerald W. Smith 339A. Speaking now
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Gerald W. Smith 341A. Well they are
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Gerald W. Smith 343opportunity to d
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Gerald W. Smith 341This district wa
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Gerald W. Smith 34 7When Cahokia pe
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Gerald W. Smith 349Q. This is tape
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