<strong>Gerald</strong> W. <strong>Smith</strong> 230discussing the vocational role of the c m t y college n'y interviewerwould almost be certain to say, "But this is what the c o ~ t yare all about, you know vocational, I' and T always RxmI wself.that and saying, "No, if you read the Illinois Correnunjtg Collegeis the comprehensive character of the community college that isthe vacatlonal role is very important, too, but only aa a partprogPam. "Q. Perhaps we can take just a ment to elaborate that a little bit filmthey or to broaden the context of this discussion to hear what you aresaying now. In some states the comrraznity college system is for more lwited,more nearly lirriited to the vocational and to the technical kinds of training,in Ohio, for example. Now, among the existing junior colleges or comdtycolleges in the State of Illinois, at the tine that these deliberationswere being carried on, were there some who were prirrmily vocational Intheir emphasis and in their focus, that might have been considered kind ofmodels for this other kind of philosophy?A. The only two year institution in Illinois that existed was a vocationaltechnicalinstitute at Southern Illinois University which had been operatinga number of years and was a two yexr institution drawing its enrollmentstatewide, and doing a splendid job. The public junior colleges in Illinoisassociated with the school districts at the the the act was passed wereall of them basically comprehensive in nature, in theory at least. And Iwould like to add here as did Dr. Glermy and Dr. Browne in their comntsIn the master plan, that whereas they charged that the junior colleges asa whole in Illinois were weak in the vocational field they also obsemedthat some of them had done an excellent job of developing that and this istrue. We had some cornunity colleges in Illinois that were really excellentexarrrples of the comprehensive concept.Q. Can you mention one or two that might?A. Yes, I think that Joliet would have to be given credit in that role.The Chicago City Colleges were a good example of that. In Chicago becausethey were a multiple canrpus, they were able to accomplish that; by havw,for example, Wright Junior College an outstanding college in liberal sand the Southeast College an outstanding college in the vocationaland so forth.Q. Specialization of the institution?A. Yes, of campus, but as a state institution, I think Belleville _hag madeexcellent progress in that direction.Q. No, I dadn't mean to make this a comprehensive examination but simplyto examine a limited nwnber,A. Well, at any rate I think that I have spoken sufficiently to the pointthat an emphasis in this act addressed itself to the comrehensiveness ofthe comprehensive program in the ccanmunity college.A second topic that I wanted to discuss is a matter of tuition. 1'11
<strong>Gerald</strong> W. <strong>Smith</strong> 2 31discuss this as it was written into the act as a follow up to the discussionthat preceded the enactment of an act which we, I think have talkedabout considerably. I also want to cmnt about it because that par€&-cular subject has been one of continous discussion in the eleven yearssince the act passed. It didn't end with the cormittee in the Governor'soffice or with whatever language they wrote into the act. I want to speakto that llttle bit now. And I think there is one element about the discussionthat I'll add to this particular discourse. Namely, that in thediscussion with regard to the matter of tuition not only was there the discussionon the matter of whether community colleges should operate tuitionfreein Illinois or whether they should include tuition but there was aconsiderable discussion as to the principle on which tuition would bechanged, and the levels of tuition that would be allowed. During that prelegislationdiscussion to which I have referred. one of the conce~ts thathad been identif id, interestingly enough, considerably in the state ofNew York was the idea of operating the codty college with incore on whatthey talked about as a third, a third, and a third: one third state, onethird local tax, and one third student tultion. New York is not the onlystate that did that, and, interestingly enough, that dialogue wasn't lirrdtedonly to the junior college. There were people in the United States anddifferent pockets around the country who thought that was a good principlefor all of hi&er education, but in our case it was addressed more to thecornunity college. Well, this was one of the elements, as I indicated therecornendation that finally came out was that the local districts be giventhe option whether to charge tuition or not. So the specifics of the actas it was passed in 1965 were as follows : it stated that the Board of mucationand now called the Board of Trustees of the c m t y college, havethe authority to charge a tuition fee not to exceed one third of the percapita cost in the academic programs. NOW the reason far specifiying theacademic programs was that there was speculation that, as these new collegesdeveloped, it was quite probable that the levels of mamy of the occupationalprograms would be substantially higher than the liberal arts or the academicprograms.Q. By level you mean the cost level.A. The per capita cost level. Yes, the unit cost level would be conside*.ably higher. And so in order to prevent a community college from using pehapsthe highest unit it had, it specified that it shou1a be one third,that it could not exceed a third of the per capita cost of the academicpmgram in the cormn"unity college, and so that was the way that it was done.Q. What about the vocational areas and the technical areas? Is there anyething specified about the level?A. No, if they charge tuition, it had to be across the hap3 on the . . .Q. It could not exceed more than one third the cost of the academic p mgram. That is, in words. Their over-all programs, let us say, might haveended up, let us say, $50 per semester hour per capita for a student, whereasmybe libeml arts might have been let us say, $45 and the occupational program$55. They could not have used more-khan $45 if that was the aca?emLchigh. Those figures that I use now are purpose of demonstmtion.
- Page 1 and 2: University of Illinois at Springfie
- Page 3 and 4: Gerald W. Smith 201A. I would like
- Page 5 and 6: Gerald W. Mth 20 3One of the outcom
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- Page 11 and 12: Gerald W.Smithof them have retired.
- Page 13 and 14: Gerald W. Smith 211Q. There was lot
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- Page 17 and 18: Gerald W. Smith215IWge tuition at o
- Page 19 and 20: Gerald W.SmithA. And m n I'll speak
- Page 21 and 22: Gerald W. Smith 219to continue with
- Page 23 and 24: Gerald W. Smith 221A. The principal
- Page 25 and 26: Gerald W.SmithQ. And who was it tha
- Page 27 and 28: Gerald W. SMth 225who was skilled o
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- Page 37 and 38: Gerald W.Smlth23Fjbut we would say
- Page 39 and 40: Gerald W. Smith 237point out that i
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- Page 45 and 46: Gerald W. Smith 243was there wlth a
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- Page 49 and 50: 1people who were working wfth me a
- Page 51 and 52: Gerald W. Smith 249I was looking in
- Page 53 and 54: Gerald W. Smith 251.developnents ea
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- Page 63 and 64: Gerald W. Smith26rCentralia, 1940;M
- Page 65 and 66: Gerald W.SmithJdor College Act ax i
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- Page 69 and 70: Gerald W. Smith 267A. Yes, I think
- Page 71 and 72: Q. That's an unbelievable record.A.
- Page 73 and 74: So this is the story of Danville. I
- Page 75 and 76: Gerald W. Smith 2 73Of course, you
- Page 77 and 78: At the far south, a junlor college
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Gerald W. Smith 281Q. Let me ask ya
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not understanding the le@slative pr
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Gerald W. Mth 2 85I tbhk it 2s inte
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Gerald W. Smith 287Board received a
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Gerald W. Smith 2 89land they were
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Gerald W. Smith 291Q. Now there was
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Q. Was there sane particular reason
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At any rate, it was a year before t
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A. Yes. He was the prbe mver and le
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Gerald W. Smith 9opportunity to org
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Gerald W. Wth 30 1of Cook County is
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A. ... even though the statutes pre
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Gerald W. Wth 30 5who actually, as
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Gerald W. Smith 30 7Their feasibili
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Gerald W.Wth309There were two quota
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Gerald W, Smith. -The referendum fo
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Gerald W. Smith 31 3In the Galesbur
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Gerald W.Smith315Q. This is perhaps
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Gerald W. Smith 317proposal - just
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Gerald W. Smith 319I would poht out
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Gerald W.Smith321$0 they were to go
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They enunciated a pollcy that was n
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Gerald FI, Wth325A. I have never se
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Gerald W. Wth 32 7A. Yes, the count
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Gemld W. Smith 329A. Well, yes, I a
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Q. This is a continuation of the in
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Gerald W. Smith 333were workin@; to
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Gerald W. Smith 335perhaps to take
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Gerald W. Smith 337'Rut north in Un
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Gerald W. Smith 339A. Speaking now
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Gerald W. Smith 341A. Well they are
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Gerald W. Smith 343opportunity to d
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Gerald W. Smith 341This district wa
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Gerald W. Smith 34 7When Cahokia pe
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Gerald W. Smith 349Q. This is tape