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1 year ago

qronika+177

neli vardiaSvili 597 11

neli vardiaSvili 597 11 12 47 „qronika+”-Si daibeWda kud-is yofili maRalCinosnis, daTo kuxianiZis interviu. kuxianiZe dRes- dReobiT saqarTvelodan wasulia da ukrainaSi cxovrobs. igi saubrobs „nacionalebis” xelisuflebis dros saqarTveloSi Catarebul gaxmaurebul specoperaciebze, sadac kud-ic monawi- leobda. Savnabadis e. w. amboxis gamo Catarebul specoparaciaze ambobs, rom is adamianebi, romlebic am operaciaSi monawileobd- nen, ruseTidan imarTebodnen. mkiTxvelisTvis cnobilia, rom am operaciis dros gardaicvala gia krialaSvili, romlis saqmeze gamoZieba, jer kidev ar dasrulebula. intervius gamoqveynebis Semdeg, krialaSvilis da, qalbatoni lia daukavSirda redaqcias da sakuTari poziciis dafiqsireba iTxova. lia krialaSvili: _ wina xelisuflebis dros gansxvavebuli azris mqone adamianebi idevnebodnen. zogs xocavdnen, lodebs abamdnen da zRvaSi axrCobdnen, zogsac mTeli cxovreba dilegebSi awamebdnen. 9 wlis ganmavlobaSi demokratia dasaflavebisa da miwas amofarebis tolfasi iyo. marTalia, amerikelebi im xelisuflebas demokratiis Suquras eZaxdnen, magram es iyo mkvlelebis seqta daviT kuxianiZeebis xelSewyobiT. _ Tqven icnobdiT kuxianiZ- es? _ ar vicnobdi da magis cnoba arc minda. ubralod, gavikiTxe, vin iyo da ras warmoadgenda. eg iyo naZirala, axalaias jgufis wevri, romelic yvelaferze midioda. nebismieri ramis gamkeTeblebi iyvnen da asrulebdnen kidec reJimis mier SekveTil davalebebs. rasac amboben, rom TiTqos prokuraturaze amJamad zewolaao, tyuilia. aseTi ram marTlac rom xdebodes, eseni dRes cixeSi iqnebodnen. faqtia, rom gareT dadian da interviuebsac aqveyneben. axla sapatimroebSi aRaravis aupatiureben da arc dapatimrebuli adamianebis naTesavebsa da ojaxis wevrebs iWeren. muxrovanis amboxis dros ki oTanaZis 21 naTesavi daakaves. maT Soris, erT-erTi iyo wlamde bavSvi, romelic uWmel-usmeli hyavdaT „modulis” SenobaSi gamoketili da mSoblebs emuqrebodnen, _ rasac geubnebiT, Tu ar ityviT, fexebiT davkidebT da cocxals gavxleCTo. kuxianiZe rom ambobs, viTom adamianebs axlac awamebeno, TviTon egenic xom midi- 294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com an, Cvenebas aZleven da isev ukan gamodian da aba, asea? ase xdeboda winaT?! _ muxrovanis e. w. amboxis ambavze gadavideT. kuxianiZe ambobs, rom am amboxis mTavari mizani is iyo, rom samxedro nawilebi gamosuliyvnen, Tbi- lisis Semosasvlelebi diliT gadaketiliyo, Sinagan saqmeTa da Tavdacvis ministris likvidireba moexdinaT, an daekave- binaT... Semdeg unda Seqmniliyo droebiTi samxedro sabWo, ro- melic vadamdel saparlamento arCevnebs daniSnavda, burjanaZe moigebda da qveynis saTaveSi misi momxreebi movidod- nen. es iyo Tavidan bolomde rusuli specsamsaxurebis gaw- erili gegmao. ras ityviT am braldebebze? _ aranairi amboxi muxrovan- Si ar momxdara. es iyo maSindeli xelisuflebis mier uniWod dadgmuli speqtakli da amas emsxverpla Cemi Zma. Tu gia damnaSave iyo, is unda daeWiraT da kanoniT moeTxovaT pasuxi, magram maT gias mokvla hqondaT gaTvlili. es rom namdvilad ase iyo, gia RvalaZis interviudanac Canda. is ambobda, _ 4 maiss kud-Si damakaves da miTxres, krialaSvili ukve „trupia” da koba kobalaZe dagvaWerineo. SegiZliaT, es interviu naxoT da darwmundebiT, rom simarTles vambob. es adamiani daakaves da iZulebuli gaxades, maT dadgmul speqtaklSi mieRo monawileoba. mere is mec Semxvda da dedaCemsac, orives bodi- Si mogvixada, faqtobrivad, Cemi Zma mis Cvenebas Seewira. man isic gviTxra, ra formebiTa da meTodebiT aiZules eTqva is, rac undodaT. Turme: rome- lia krialaSvili: `xelisuflebas unda axsovdes, rom isini Cveni biWebis sisxliT movidnen!~ liRac saxlSi miiyvanes, furceli daudes da manac waikiTxa, rac dauwres. amas mohyva e. w. muxrovanis ambebi. diax, Cemi Zmis likvidacia dagegmili iyo, romelic zviad xaraziSvilma Seasrula. qalbatonma elisom miTxra, rom ruseTis mona var da ar vaprotesteb xaraziSvilis dawinaurebas. Tu naxavT Cems interviuebs televiziiT, an presiT mixvdebiT, rom amas yvelgan vaprotestebdi da Tu samarTali ar izeimebs, yovelTvis gavaprotesteb, sanam cocxali viqnebi. 2008 wels omi wavageT, rac „nacionalebma” mogebad CaTvales, aRniSnes da taSfanduri nacxades. es adamianebi xalxs arc daarbevdnen, magram Cemi Zma am saqmeSi arafer SuaSi iyo. is ukrainaSi cxovrobda da 30 aprils ramdenime dRiT Camovida saqarTveloSi. _ ratom Camovida? _ gia yofili samxedro mosamsaxure iyo. is gaxldaT ukraina-moldovis ataSe. roca ‘nacionaluri moZraoba” movida xelisuflebaSi, Cemi Zma gadaayenes da iq prezidentis rwmunebulad niSnavdnen, magram giam uari ganacxada. ramdenjerme SesTavazes Tanamdeboba, magram uars eubneboda. roca vkiTxe, ratom iqceoda ase, miTxra, _ ar minda, am adamianebTan ver vimuSaveb, dRes damniSnaven da xval damiWeren. Sen xom ici, rom amaT binZur saqmeebs ver gavakeTebo. _ Tqveni Zma muxrovanis batalionSi rogor moxvda? _ ar vici, Cems Zmas vin daukavSirda, ratom aRmoCnda gia im dRes muxrovanSi, amas ver getyviT. eWvi maqvs, roca muxrovanSi situacia daiZaba, misi ganmuxtva undodaT, radgan Cems Zmas jarSi didi wona hqonda da did pativs scemdnen, etyoba, situaciis ganmuxtvaSi daxmareba sTxoves. _ vin sTxova? _ ar vici. im Rames gia CemTan darCa saxlSi. erTad viyaviT me, Cemi meuRle, Svilebi da gia. usinaTlo Svili myavs da RamiT is da Cemi Zma saubrobdnen. diliT, 9:30 saaTze, gaviRviZe da gia saxlSi aRar damxvda. mere televiziiT gavige, rom muxrovanSi raRac xdeboda da RvalaZis interviuc movismine. mas mere Cems ZmasTan kavSiri aRar mqonia. gia iq iqneboda samoqalaqo formiT, radgan mas samxedro forma ar hqonda. ukrainidan patara CemodniT iyo Camosuli da ambobda, orsam dReSi ukan unda davbrundeo. kaci, romelic viTom amboxs apirebda, or dReSi ukan rogor dabrundeboda? gias muxrovanSi yofnis dros alya Semoartyes muxrovans da monaTles, TiTqos iq amboxi mzaddeboda, rac Tavad muxrovanSi myofma biWebmac televiziiT Seityves. isini mizanSi hyavdaT amoRebuli da icodnen, rom radgan es saSineli adamianebi yvelaferze midiodnen, maT daiWerdnen da amitomac `ver gamigia dRevandeli prokuraturisgan, rom amboben, mtkicebulebebi ar ariso. is kaci gamovarda maSin da Tqva, gia krialaSvili miwidan amoiReTo. televiziiTac daido kadrebi, rom merabiSvili or gvams iTxovda. sxvaTa Soris, amaze premiebi gaica. siaSi pirveli erekle kodua weria, romelmac 5 aTasi lari aiRo. 22-23 maiss gare perimetrze mdgarma xalxmac ki aiRo premiebi. imis mixedviT izrdeboda premia, vis ra wvlili hqonda Setanili am saqmeSi. Cemi TvaliT maqvs nanaxi es sia. cocxalma gvamma, merabiSvilma gasca es premiebi. me mas am saxels vuwodeb, radganac is CemTvis swored cocxali gvamia. amaT xma rogor amoeRebaT, dRevandeli mTavroba sustia, Torem eseni cixeSi unda lpebodnen da gareT ver dadiodnen~ 18 vano merabiSvili gamarTes. 2009 wels daZabuli mdgomareoba iyo da opoziciam rusTavelze saknebis qalaqi moawyo. ase aprotestebdnen qveyanaSi Seqmnil mdgomareobas. rogorc vici, samxedroebs, reinjerebis batalionis biWebs mosTxoves aRlumze gamosvla da, amavdroulad, aqciis momwyobi moqalaqeebis darbeva. reinjerebis batalionisa da muxrovanis batalionis meTaurebi _ mamuka gorgiaSvili da levan amiriZe _ uSualod ibrZodnen 2008 wlis omSi da iq biWebi daexocaT. Tu ar vcdebi, wina dRes aseve daapatimres amiriZis Stabis ufrosi, amitom aRlumze gamosvlaze maT uari ga- datoves muxrovanis samxedro nawilis teritoria. amis mere tyes afarebdnen Tavs da xelisuflebam jildoebi daawesa, vinc maT daiWerda. 200 aTasi 18 N46(177) 27.12-17.01.2017 w.

oTanaZeze iyo dawesebuli da 50-50-aTasiani lari Cems Zmasa da levan amiriZeze. maTi Zebnis periodSi Tqven ar iciT, Cven ra dReSi viyaviT. _ Tqvenzec iyo zewola? _ diax, iyo. deda nucubiZeze cxovrobda, me _ vaJa-fSavelas quCaze. mTel ubans Semoartyes alya. Cems SviliSvils, 6-7 wlis bavSvs, skolaSic dahyvebodnen. me TeTri wyaroSi vmsaxurobdi da mec myavda moTvalTvale moCenili. Cems TanamSromels, visi manqaniTac davdiodi, masac dahyvebodnen. Rame „marSutkis” tipis avtomobili idga gverdiT korpusTan SeiaraRebuli xalxiT da ar vicodi, rodis Semomivardebodnen da ra moxdeboda, magram, etyoba, isic icodnen, rom CemTan gias kavSiri ar hqonda. yovel Rames SiSiT vaTenebdi, magram, netav, Semovardniliyvnen da CemTvis eqnaT rame, oRond Cemi Zma gadarCeniliyo. saxlis gverdiT saxanZro kibe adis. Turme, am kibezec ki isxdnen da ase gviTvalTvalebdnen. Cems zemoT mcxovrebi mezobeli qalbatoni 18 maiss sadarbazoSi, kibeze adioda, xeli staces da kud-Si dakiTxvaze waiyvanes. 7 saaTi gamoketili hyavdaT. mas uTqvams, _ Cemgan ra gindaT, misi da xom iciT, sadac aris da imas hkiTxeT, me ra unda vicode imis garda, rom es adamiani aris patiosani, patrioti pirovneba, misi cudi arasdros gagvigiao. upasuxiaT, _ misi da sisxliT naTesavia, amitom ufleba ar gvaqvs, davkiTxoTo. Cemi dakiTxva Tu ar SeiZleboda, aba, oTanaZis Zmebi da naTesavebi rogor miiyvanes kud-Si? rogorc giTxariT, patara bavSviTac ki moaxdines maTze zemoqmedeba. _ Tqven ratom mogeridnen da mxolod ratom giTvalT- valebdnen? _ ar vici! Cems qmars, Svilebs, mTel ojaxs gviTvalTvalebdnen Riad. ra Tqma unda, esec garkveuli zewola iyo. 20 maiss televiziiT gavige, rom biWebi Cacxriles da Cemi Zmis saZebnad gaviqeci. qerCis quCaze mxolod manqana damxvda da iq ukve asfalts agebdnen. gias megobrebTan vrekavdi da vekiTxebodi, _ xom ar iciT, ra xdebameTqi? _ arao, _ meubnebodnen, magram, Turme, maTTvis yvelaferi cnobili iyo da icodnen, rom Cemi Zma cocxali aRar iyo. me kidev suleliviT mainc davdiodi da veZebdi Zmas. roca gavige, rom daWrilebi Rudu- SaurSi gadaiyvanes, iq wavedi. saavadmyofosac policiis alya hqonda Semortymuli. SeSveba viTxove da uari miTxres. isterika damemarTa. mkiTxes, _ vin xaro da ar vuTxari Cemi gvari. _ moqalaqe var, eqimis naxva minda, avad var-meTqi da piradoba momTxoves. meuRlis gvarze var da amitom SemiSves, magram Tan erT-erTi policielic Semomyva. SigniT ukve kivili daviwye da policielis Tavidan mocilebas viTxovdi. mere eqimmac uTxra, cota xans gadiT, ver xedavT, qali ra dRe- Siao? marto rom davrCi, eqims fexebSi Cavuvardi da vTxovdi eTqva, vin iyvnen miyvanilebi saavadmyofoSi. gavige, rom iq gia ar iyo, amitom vifiqre, Cemi Zma cocxali iyo da arc daWrila. ras warmovidgendi, rom momiklavdnen. gamTeniisas movedi saxlSi da televiziiT Sevityve, rom gia mokles. dedam, 80 wlis qalma, televiziiT gaigo Svilis sikvdili. _ kuxianiZe ambobs, rom Savnabadis batalionSi amboxs awyobdnen da es yvelaferi am- itom moxda. riT amtkicebT, rom es tyuilia? _ es aris zRaprebi, romelic maT moigones. raRac xom unda daebralebinaT am adamianebisTvis. amitomac gavmwardi mis interviuze. qalbatoni eliso, albaT, arafer SuaSi iyo, magram gamwarebulma davreke, _ Cemi Zma mkvdari mainc moasveneT miwaSi-meTqi. gia rom rusebs ebrZoda, maT Cems Zmaze jildo hqondaT dawesebuli. egeni, vinc Cems Zmas aseTi ram damarTes, kuxianiZeebi, axalaiebi da sxvebi, maSin „wamlis” keTebiT iyvnen dakavebulebi. me, iciT, riT var bednieri? _ xalxi icnobs giasac da magaTac. gia saqarTvelosTvis ibrZoda erovnuli moZraobis drosac, samaCabloSic, afxazeTSic da me egeni iq ar minaxavs. aravis ar uTqvams, rom romelime maTgani omSi iyo da saqarTvelos suverenitets icavda. egeni maSin sazRvrebs gareT „gulaobdnen” mamikoebis fulebiT, wamlebs iCxerdnen, kazinoebSi dadiodnen. ai, rogori xalxi gvyavda 9 weliwadi mTavrobaSi. ver gamigia dRevandeli prokuraturisgan, rom amboben, mtkicebulebebi ar ariso. is kaci gamovarda maSin da Tqva, gia krialaSvili miwidan amoi- ReTo. televiziiTac daido kadrebi, rom merabiSvili or gvams iTxovda. sxvaTa Soris, amaze premiebi gaica. siaSi pirveli erekle kodua weria, romelmac 5 aTasi lari aiRo. 22-23 maiss gare perimetrze mdgarma xalxmac ki aiRo premiebi. imis mixedviT izrdeboda premia, vis ra wvlili hqonda Setanili am saqmeSi. Cemi TvaliT maqvs nanaxi es sia. cocxalma gvamma, merabiSvilma gasca es premiebi. me mas am saxels vuwodeb, radganac is CemTvis swored cocxali gvamia. amaT xma rogor amoeRebaT, dRevandeli mTavroba N46(177) 27.12-17.01.2017 w. 294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com gia krialaSvili sustia, Torem eseni cixeSi unda lpebodnen da gareT ver dadiodnen. _ kuxianiZe ambobs, rom ar- sebobda Canawerebi, romelic muxrovanis amboxis monawile- Ta rusul kvals amtkicebs da axla gamqralia. _ ranairad gaqreboda Canawerebi? Tu aseTi Canawerebi hqondaT, ratom ar dades mtkicebulebad sasamarTloSi? xom Catarda oTanaZis, amiriZisa da danarCeni biWebis sasamarTlo? rogor fiqrobT, raime Canawerebi rom hqonodaT, ar dadebdnen? diax, dadebdnen da ras bodavs es adamiani, ver gavige!. 2009 wels sasamarTlo rom Catarda, maSin vin gaaqro es Canawrebi, iqneb, isic Tqvas? _ kuxianiZis saubridanac Cans, rom man moaxerxa sazRvarze gadasvla da qveynis datoveba. xaraziSvili, romel- mac, rogorc amboben, Tqvens Zmas esrola, am xelisuflebam daawinaura. es ar gaRizianebT? ratom ar gaqvT amis gamo pretenzia prokuraturasTan, policiasTan?.. vinc, wesiT, es ad- amianebi unda dasajos da amas ar akeTebs, mas ratom arafers eubnebiT da sTxovT? _ vCivi, rogor ar vCivi. dResac mqonda gamomZiebelTan saubari. rogor fiqrobT, me kmayofili viqnebi, Seuracxyofili da gaubedurebuli qali? roca muxrovanis kadrebi daido, gamomZiebelma dakiTxvaze damibara da miTxra, es kaci imsaxurebs imas, rom saqme gamoZiebuli iyoso. bodiSs gixdiT, rom gaWianurdao. axla mec aRar vici, ra vifiqro, ratom Wianurdeba saqme da yvelaferze ratom amboben, mtkicebuleba ar ariso. Tumca „nacionalebiviT” rom awamebdnen xalxs esenic, albaT, mtkicebulebebic eqnebodaT. lmobierad rom iqcevian da ase atareben dakiTxvebs, amis gamo ar aqvT mtkicebulebebic. _ imaze ar gifiqriaT, rom sanam xaraziSvili Tanamdebo- bazea, am saqmes dasruleba ar uweria? _ xaraziSvilma sakuTar uflebamosilebas gadaaWarba. mas SeeZlo, gia fexebSi daeWra, an sicocxlisTvis usafrTxo adgilebSi. sxvaTa Soris, gias erTi tyvia dundulaSi aqvs moxvedrili. Zalian mainteresebs, dundulaSi rogor moxvda tyvia, roca kaci skamze zurgiT ijda? ori tyvia muxlSi aqvs moxvedrili da erTi _ gulSi. swored gulSi moxvedrili tyviiT aqvs gaglejili gulis parkuWebi, filtvebi, RviZli, elenTa, aorta, yvelaferi. gia rom manqanidan gadmougdiaT, wixlic CaurtyamT, amas ukve deda aqvs …... mag naZiralebma ena gaaCumon. xalxs iqamde nu miiyvanen, rom samarTlianobis aRdgenas aRar daelodon. maT sakmaod acades xelisuflebas, Tumca qarTveli xalxi iseTi gonieria, rom, albaT, kidev acdis, raTa srulfasovnad aRadginon samarTlianoba da yvela damna- Savem agos pasuxi. davuSvaT, Cemma Zmam mar- Tlac Caidina raRac, razedac is unda dasjiliyo. vis hqonda ufleba, misi sicocxle xeleyo? cota xnis win gadatrialebaze rom saubrobdnen „nacionalebi”, aqedan TargamaZeebi da sxvebi hyvebodnen, ratom daibares dakiTxvaze da ar dacxriles ise, rogorc isini moeqcnen Cems Zmas? eseni xom Riad subrobdnen gadatrialebaze? an viTom TargamaZe rom aafe- Tqes da pretenziebi aqvs, damnaSveebs ar akavebeno, Tavad ratom dadis gareT? Tqven iciT, Cemi Zma micvalebuli rogori iyo? Tavi da gulmkerdi gadaxsnili hqonda, iRliebi, rogorc tomrebi, ise hqonda amokerili da Zafebi ekida. kaci iyo daCexili. me mgonia, micvalebulze iyares javri. gia imdenad Secvlili iyo, xalxi rom modioda, ambobda, rom ar vicodeT, gias panaSvidia, ver davijerebdiT mis sikvdilso, mec ki vfiqrobdi mere, iqneb, Cemi Zma arc iyo mkvdari-meTqi? gaognebuli var, ram Secvala ase micvalebuli? mainteresebs, gvami awames? ar vici, ratom awinaureben xaraziSvils axla, etyoba, mfarveli hyavs. saqarTvelo patara qveyanaa, yvela erTmaneTs icnobs da romelime maRalCinosani hyavs mfarveli masac. vici, rom roca es xelisufleba movida, zviad xaraziSvils xsnidnen, magram daireka da is Tanamdebobaze datoves. mere ki daawinaures. ukve arsebobs varaudi, rom mas erT-erTi maRalCinosani mfarvelobs. es xom saqarTveloa da aq kanonebi ar arsebobs... _ iciT, vin aris xaraziSvi- lis mfarveli? _ ar vici. etyoba, maRalCinosania da mag struqturaSi muSaobs. Cemze zewola gias gardacvalebis merec iyo. Cems ojaxSi sami weli arc erTs ar gvqonda muSaobis ufleba. Cemi Svili fexburTs TamaSobda, nakrebSi iyo da iqidanac gamou- Sves. Cemi ojaxi SimSiliT sikvdilisTvis gawires. gias megobrebi da axloblebi rom ar yofiliyvnen, dRes cocxlebi aRar viqnebodiT. amis mere Cemi bina TaRliTurad aRmoCnda bankSi, is binac wamarTves da dRes quCaSi var. amitom Tavis gakeTebul saqmeebze ilaparakon da am mTavrobas SeeSvan. amaT isic eyofaT, rasac sCadian. _ ras gulisxmobT? _ pirveli, yvelaze mTavari codva aris is, rom samarTlianoba ar aRdga. Cveni advokati naTia korkotaZe sxva biWebis sasamarTlos eswreboda da iq `aranairi amboxi muxrovanSi ar momxdara. es iyo maSindeli xelisuflebis mier uniWod dadgmuli speqtakli da amas emsxverpla Cemi Zma. Tu gia damnaSave iyo, is unda daeWiraT da kanoniT moeTxovaT pasuxi, magram maT gias mokvla hqondaT gaTvlili. es rom namdvilad ase iyo, gia RvalaZis interviudanac Canda. is ambobda, - 4 maiss kud-Si damakaves da miTxres, krialaSvili ukve `trupia~ da koba kobalaZe dagvaWerineo. SegiZliaT, es interviu naxoT da darwmundebiT, rom simarTles vambob. es adamiani daakaves da iZulebuli gaxades, maT dadgmul speqtaklSi mieRo monawileoba. mere is mec Semxvda da dedaCemsac, orives bodiSi mogvixada, faqtobrivad, Cemi Zma mis Cvenebas Seewira~ Tqva, _ megona, saukunis procesze movdiodi da es dadgmuli speqtakli iyoo. magram mjera, rom „nacionalebi” yvela Cadenil danaSaulze ageben pasuxs adre Tu gvian. yvela ma- Ti danaSauli bolomde gamoCndeba da firebsac vnaxavT, radgan isini yvelafers iRebdnen. Cems Zmaze cuds egeni ver dadeben, radgan gia patrioti da mebrZoli iyo. is principebis gamo mokles, radgan biWebi xalxis dasarbevad ar gavidnen da aRlumi ar Cautares omSi uamravi jariskacis daRupvis mere. ra eaRlumebodaT, amdeni adamiani daexocaT da amxela teritoriebi dakarges! xelisuflebas xma imitom miveciT, rom samarTlianoba aRmdgariyo, yvela damnaSave dasjiliyo, romelTac danaSauli Caidines, magram am xelisuflebam es ar Seasrula da gulnatkeni var. es iyo maTi umTavresi dapireba. minda, axsovdeT, isini movidnen Cveni biWebis sisxliT _ robaqiZis, vazagaSvilis, girgvlianis, SaraZis sisxliT, amitom rac xalxis neba iyo, is unda Seasrulon. vTxov prokuraturas, vemudarebi maT, me-8 welia, dedaCemi gias gamo sikvdils elodeba da natrobs. iqneb, moaswron es moxuci, Svilmkvdari deda imas, rom misi Svilis mkvleli saTanadod daisajos da miwaSi masac gulnatkens nu gauSveben. 19