Archives/Special Collections, University of Illinois at Springfield

about him. But Bill Lyons \\-as grrat for tl~nt. It ruined his hralth really !inally. Rill drank
a hell of a lot. He liked to sing and he'd get out every night soniepl:ice and go out cverlnight
somewhere. And Grindle was grrat for that too. Grindle did it for a while.
Q: \Villiam Grindle?
A: Y e I'feffer loved to play cards. He liked to be out playing cards. That's another thing
where 1 got my education when I was a kid, becausr I stayed asray from cartis n.11t.n I ~ o t
away from hnmc see. I aln,ays thought that if you don'! knosr- who you're gambling xith,
not to gamt~le. I \rant to he in control. To hell with letting the other fello~!. I know I
told Leo one night - we were out and Leo was drinking - he went down. I think I give
him four or five hundred dollars and he had to hare some more. And I said. "Leo." I said.
"have you had your education yet? I-Iell," I said. "I had mine when I W:IS seventeen years
old. It didn't cost me near as much."
Q: Yes sir. (laughter) Well. Wherr ~litl you nurmally stay?
4: St, Kick Iiutel.
Q: That was Democratic headquarters then,
A: That was headquarters, !es. You could - in those days you could see 13-hocver you
wanted to see either in the St. Nick, the Leland or the 4be Linroln. You made the round
and naturally anybody in town. you'd get to see them. That's where they were. In latrr
years now it's entirely different. It's not like it was then.
(1: I understand Paul Powell used to set up, usually latr in the evening
A
Yes ever)- night.
Q: . . . on toward midnight.
A: We usrd to sit around there. I'm a great man for that too. I'm in the habit of that
yet. I never go to bed now till two o'clock, probably. I read or play cards or do sonrething
now. I kno!~ I've got some friends of mine, they'rr disgusted and my girlfriend, she raises
hell. She wants to go to her1 early. And I like to stay up late.
But Powell would do that. Hr'd sit there at St. Nick Hotel and chew the rag. 11nd I a1n.a~~
remember Opie Greathouse, hr was running the hotel, and a fellow by the name of Armstrong.
he \\-as around there then. One night we got a barrel of oysters in and Opie drcitlrd
to open them up. They come in, fresh oysters. So we had nysters down there. On 0~~ic.
naturally. Polvell never paid for nothing. You'd have to pick up the tab if you werr wing
to go for that.
Q. Is that right" You remember what you used to talk al)~)ut"
A: Oh, everything. Anything in general, tell stories. l'owell was great ahuut telling about
his southern Illinois, emphasize on how he had a tough time when hr was a kid. I guess
he did, I guess niaylle he did. I never knew him, you know, before he went trl Springtirld.
But just frorn hearing his side of thc story, huu he was in business too - he knew I was
in husiness and then he'd tell about him hring in thr grocery business and the restaurant
husiness :ilul a lot of the problems he had. And then he'd tell about his experience one
time ahuut - who nas it running against him? Was it - I think John Stelle opposed him
on? time, I had so damned many stories about it I can't recall. But one time - 15-r were
always kidding about - I brought up the minister froin up her? to say the prayer for one
u-eek. Pretty popular fellow from around here. And first time it had ever happened in the
Carl Wittmond Memoir -- Archives/Special Collections, University of Illinois at Springfield