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A. You mean after the) got elected. or Q: Yes, after they got elected there A: Well I never did get to know him, I never was very rlose to Stevenson. I don't knin. 11e had an aloofness about him and he was always pretty inurh a loner. Hr \\-;is I)? himself. He put in a lot of lime. He was alrvays at his desk, while rve rverc working. r~il he didn't go out of his way to get :~cciuainted with anybody either. And I was :ilnays the type that if they didn't want to associate with me, it was perfectly alright. Rut hr just didn't fit in with our group over in ml- corner at all. Q: Did he associate with a particular group? Or he was he a complete loner? A: I think he was pretty much of ;i loner. 1 don't think he assoriateii xx-ith - I belieye him and Paul Simon \\.as alrvays prcttl- close. Q: Let's see, we're mentionetl [Iarold Katz therr. No\\- he was thc on? that got the Cmmission on the Organization of the General Assembly going. A: Yes, Q: Prior to that time Harold Hoover had tried lor thrre sessi(ins to get a rornrnission estahlished and failed to do so. 110 you recall his effort to . . . A: Can't recall murh atjoiit him. I remember this Katz rome down t11r.r~ though. He \\-as quite a operator it scrmrd like. IIe knew how to mix with people and hi)\\- to - w:is he irr some kind of husin~,ss or something? Was it a drug husiness or a drug start,. or did hc own . . . Q: I don't kni~u. He was in the law business. He . . . Q: . had a law firm, I know 1: And seemed like he got to be pretty popular and knew what he was doing too Q Did he get along okay with the southern Illino~s people or Pouell'5 group? 11: Oh yes he seemed like he got along pretty well with - he knew how to give and t;ikr, and . . . Q. \Vould )ou classify him as an Independent" :I: Yes I would yes. He was pretty independent Q: Do you recall the activity that led to the authorization of that commission, the ('OO(;A? A: Kot too mnch about it any more. I can't recall. More so about him being real active and pr(,moting it more than anything els?. Q: Ilid he talk tr~ you :ihrrut the need for the commission? it with him? Do you rc~:ill ever discussing A: Yes I had several conversations with him. Q: \Yere there [lartieular things that you yourself thought ought to be changeil ill the ivajyou were doing things? Carl Wittmond Memoir -- Archives/Special Collections, University of Illinois at Springfield
'1: Oh 1 probahl) thought there were a lot of things that should be changed. l)ut didn't think there was much I could do about it. So I nex-er exerted myself too much in that tingle. Q: What \yere some of the things you thought might work better if the! were rhangrd' A: Oh, yclu knou- there was a lot of talk went on about doing away with ('hicago and all that stuff see. 1 think there was too much propaganda to always try to di\.ide the tn-u sections, Chicago and doxvnstate. If they would work together and thrrr would b~ too murh friction, I think it would be a whole lot better for the state. Realizing that they were . . . benefit for all the people and not just certain groups. We were always fighting who was going to get most of the money spent on roads or on schools or whatever it w:ls. It seemed like there was always a dividing line south of Springfield. They considered south of Springlield ;IS no man's land. And nobody lived down there. Paul Powell kind of hated Chic:igo, he used to say, "We'll show them that all the brains are not in Chicago." *1: And naturally the Chicago fellows thought there was a hunch of dummies down in southern Illinois. Q: What a1)out the relationship between Powell and Daley? Do !II~ know how the! got along? A: That wasn't very good. The.y respected each other's - hoth looking for power. That's the reason Powell always wanted to put himself in position. He worked constantly for that position so he could he ready in case he needed anything in funds or hacking. cltherwise. Speaking of that money that Powell had, ti lot of them thought that Powell used that for his personal use. Well he never spent any money for his personal use. And most of that was to put himself into position so he could deal with Daley, knowing that if he didn't have a million dollars to put up when they coir~e along to put a man on the ticket, why, yo11 xvouldn't have a chance to get a man on the ticket And that was his ambition all the timr, to 1119 in position so he could hold his own with I)ale)-. But many a time I was in his nfficc and he would he on the phone. Him and Daley rrally got into it and the words that they exhanged \vouldn't he fit to say. But \vhen the chips were down though: when they needed each other for the good of the Democrat part!-. then they would hoth go along. Q: I'll he darned. e l In regard to that money of Powell's, thc hundreds of thousands of dollars that were found in shoe boxes and stuff, I understand that a lot of that was aimell at the fact that he was probably going to be running for governor, and . . . A: He was building up a kitty that he could get - I don't know whether he xvanteri to run for govornor or not. He discussed that several times, and - he always thought he'd havr more patronage really hring in the secretary of state's office. He had control of a lot of jotls. I don't think he u~~ul~l - he didn't have that under the merit system xvhen he was there, (lid he? .I: Conir right aftrr\vards. And he was always against that. Ho w:~sn't for that merit system. He wantr~l to have a patronage deal. lle was a great believer that to the victor hrlongs the spoils. I didn't go along with that philosophy all the time brcausr I thought you ought to have soniebody capable for jobs you know. But nou-. realls-, the) don't have anything tu work for ;~olitic:llly. You don't have anything to offer them an11 nothing to rntice thm~ to get active. bIaybe he had something. But so many people lost interest in Carl Wittmond Memoir -- Archives/Special Collections, University of Illinois at Springfield
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University of Illinois at Springfie
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CARL WIITMOND ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REP
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orrrniilnity in central Illinois. A
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Carl Wittmond SESSION I, TAPE 1, SI
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A: Yes. Q: Okay. And then your fath
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County that had a spur on this side
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A: It's peculiar how you always rem
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Q: I see. (chuckles) A: Out of the
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A: . . . and he took care of you. A
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A: Oh yes. You'd have a showboat he
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A: Yes it really happened. This thi
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my motber had to scrape around here
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that's how narrow people are you kn
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you know. It wasn't too prosperous.
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A: Well, I guess it was. I guess 1
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to stay all night to go to a show a
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A: I guess that just becamea a knac
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Carl Wittmond Memoir -- Archives/Sp
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Q. (chuckles) We11 this kind of gav
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Q: You sa) you were going to school
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A: Sunir. yes, oh yes. I've got sev
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Q: LVell hou did he po about gettin
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A: Oh yes sure, they used to dl, a
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ha\.? to come hc,ll:r to t'3t or so
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Anii the Eagles anif the Elks, I ha
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half of the peul,lr never elen knrw
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A: Well, in the first place, they'd
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Monday morning from Brussels. And m
Page 103 and 104: an argunirnt Iatrr UII a1111 the12
Page 105 and 106: Q: I I a n e llad you known Paul Po
Page 107 and 108: .4: Yes, somehody got hurt and Q: .
Page 109 and 110: him. Down there - see. Blackie uras
Page 111 and 112: Nuniber two, the secretary of state
Page 113 and 114: kind of a mystery place anyway, no
Page 115 and 116: anything you'd want if you'd want i
Page 117 and 118: Q: Kind of cleaned it up then. A: B
Page 119 and 120: Q: Yes that \+-as later A: I can't
Page 121 and 122: A: Probably was I think, yes. I did
Page 123 and 124: Maybe a lot of them was in. Like Bi
Page 125 and 126: other people would go see until the
Page 127 and 128: - "Oh." he said, "he makes eighty f
Page 129 and 130: .A: Oh, in his ofice, many a time.
Page 131 and 132: district. Powell said, "YIIu'~ h~tt
Page 133 and 134: .A: Oh atlout - yes, hr shall have
Page 135 and 136: thrsrr. ant1 Iru) them. And I don't
Page 137 and 138: ;mil the key Dcrnocrats. the) xverc
Page 139 and 140: you ran't beat." I said, "Some day
Page 141 and 142: :I: Yes I ren~ernher that. :I: I pr
Page 143 and 144: .A: Yes. they was \.otiny and vice
Page 145 and 146: Q: What was your position on that?
Page 147 and 148: Q Did she usually do it at your des
Page 149 and 150: a lot of the cunstituents don't un~
Page 151 and 152: A: Yes I remember him Q: \Ye11 let'
Page 153: 11: 011 I never did get excited ove
Page 157 and 158: to hlock it if he wanted to. So man
Page 159 and 160: it would he alright or whatever the
Page 161 and 162: Q: Yes. A somrthing. fle might have
Page 163 and 164: Q: Well let's see, he lived in Edwa
Page 165 and 166: Q: Oh, I see. A: Ht. thought that 1
Page 167 and 168: in the Granite City area - he was t
Page 169 and 170: :I: Oh yes, oh yes Q: What other ro
Page 171 and 172: So I put the bill in anyway to get
Page 173 and 174: A: . . . get credit for it, see, if
Page 175 and 176: A: I ctin't rrcall anymore \\.hat i
Page 177 and 178: A: hutuhahn, over in . . . Q: Germa
Page 179 and 180: Q: Well. Do you recall any particul
Page 181 and 182: I'd voted for the bill. That would
Page 183 and 184: Q: Let's see, the Zion [Illinois Be
Page 185 and 186: :\: Ile nrust not have run ;my more
Page 187 and 188: A: Wide open sparrs, that's right.
Page 189 and 190: Q: I'd like to ask first today abwt
Page 191 and 192: .A: Yes 1 can rt,call something of
Page 193 and 194: Q: Oh. He wanted the department you
Page 195 and 196: kno~r-. (;- I could have got on but
Page 197 and 198: who knrn. sonrething ahuut agrirult
Page 199 and 200: .A: \Vr ~ntrrtainzd several - one t
Page 201 and 202: town. And a lot of people was compl
Page 203 and 204: :I: Oh, n-c went a few other places
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.A: Not at that timc but they promo
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some of then1 - hut their unions ar
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sonielhing happened. I think I had
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Index .Ahl.nhani Lincoln Hl~tcal. 1
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Hinan, Martin, 79 IIitler, Adolph,
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