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Q: I see. A: In fact they've got some in now they don't want. They wish they were out. If I had started a little sooner in zoning and made it a little tougher to get in - hecause it's a privilege now to be up here. You know, it's kind of costly deal, it will cost you more to live here than any place in the country. People from St. Louis, they do own a place up here, they "Well we're going up to our island." See, it's just about like Ted Kennedy out in Massachusetts going over to his island. Well, they're going up to their island. It's about the sarne thing. Q: Well then you've indicated here that there was generally ;I bloc of downstaters from southern Illinois, sort of thing And then there was a group of kind of Independents like Simon and Mikva and that bunch A: Sinion yes. Simon, he was kind of a loner in that respect for a long time. He wasn't for Po\\zell. He went with Powell a lot of times on some things I think, as he needed Poaell. But Paul and I disagreed too. We were friends, Paul Simon and I. But I could never agree with him on a lot of his thinking. Naturally he knea what hc was doing. And he was successful politically. And he was great for the little man. He was always coming up with some kind of bill to protect somehody, something on that order. It seemed like that was the trend, up to this time. Q: Yes A: But he opposed anything pertaining to gambling or anything. I alwab-s remember the racetrack hill. One particular bill. As I said before, any racetrack bill I just went along because I believe if you want to play the ponies, okay, play the ponies. It didn't makc no difference to me. I never even went. I'd get tickets and never even take the time to go to the tracks. But once a year they'd take us down there for dinner, I'd usually go then. Many a time instead of going there I'd come horne and worked here. (taping stopped to greet customers, then resumed) Q: What racetrack was this that was involhed? Over at Cahokia or what one? A: No, at Cahokia one time they had a bill. And so they knew Paul Simon opposetl all those bills you know. He just had the reputation of opposing everything. And this one parti1:ular time, why, they knew there was no use for Powell to speak or Choate to speak because they figured they was all in on tbe racetrack deal then and nobody would pay any attention to them. Rut picked Clyde Lee out this time. Clyde would speak. So everybody respected CIS-de pretty well. He wasn't the hest speaker but he said something, people wouId pay attention to him. He wasn't like Alan Dixon and Powell. Powell they always paid a lot of attention to, but Choate and a lot of the others, they would just talk and nobody paid a lot of attention to them while they were speaking. But they picked Clyde Lee out. But they had to rehearse with Clyde as to what to say. So the bill was called and sure enough, why, they had an objection from Paul Simon. Paul gets up and he starts raising hell with Buster Workman's cigarette machines. I forget what the he11 else he had, something else there, about - oh peoplr of ill-fame character owned the horses and interest in it. And about the prostitutes. So somebody made an objection to Paul getting off base, but Paul had this all arranged. He says, "That's alright. Just let Mr. Simon . . ." just because he wanted the other guy to be able to sag ahai he wanted to say. (taping stopped to greet customers, then resumed) Q: So - and you say Paul wanted him to keep on talking Carl Wittmond Memoir -- Archives/Special Collections, University of Illinois at Springfield
.A: Oh atlout - yes, hr shall have your torn. .And sure enough somebodv else made a few remarks. And then hr got Clyde Lee's recognition. They had it all planned. So Clyde gets up and he reads it ail of. He had it all planned on. He says, "I've picked out some prominent hankers from over, in eastern Illinois around Olnel- and over in there that way" - and Laxrence Fillen said - who had interest in some raerhorses, he said - "I dare you to question . . ." and every Republican was on top, "I dare anybody to question their character and su forth." And naturally every Republican here went a\vaj- and you know they were all big Republicans, you - these names you'vr mentioned - he had that all rehearsed hefore. Q: Yes. A: And he said about the cigarette and Mr. Simon mentioned ahout the cigarette machines. He says, '$1 don't know if that makes any dilTerence. You can buy your cig;~rettes someplace else." And then he went on about a frxi- more things. And then he said, "What about the prostitutes?" He says, "I don't knon. nothing about it." FIe says, "I've never seen any, but if Mr. Simon says they're there, they're there." Q: Well! (laughter) A: Poor old Paul, he Q: Kind of took the wind out of him. (chuckles) A: The board went on and the green light went on ;111 over. But they had planned on that one for a long time because they knew he was going to lla\.e a lot of opposition on the damned thing. Q: Well. What was his reaction to that sort of thing? .A: Who, Paul? Q Yes .A: Paul could takr it. That's one thing :rbout him, he could take drfrat. And wouldn't bother hini. (2: ryere there those that couldn't take defeat? I tinderstand that John Tl~iihy for exan~lllr woul(1 get kind of . . . A: Yes. John \i-otild get marl. John never did like me, somr reason or otlirr. I dun't knniv \\h? l l and ~ I wasn't close at all, I don't knt~\r why. And he's a hell of a nice f~llu\v they tell me, a high-type of fello\v. Liut I rould never figure it out. And it didn't hothrr nit. any. 1 didn't \\-ant nothing, didn't ask for it. Q: Hayhe he thought you were too mu1.h of a southern illinoisian to :I: Could have hern. Rut I got along with most of them, likr George Dunne. George Dlinne was ;I real good friend of mine. I always thought he was a high caliher sort of a felloiv. Kenny Rendt was another one. And 1,illian Piotro\vski, she was a judge up there. I always really liked her. She was raal close to nie at the time. Q Was ahr the softhall plav~r or something" A: Xu, she's a Polish gal. Then one of the black boys up there, a big tall guy, I used to go ... Carl Wittmond Memoir -- Archives/Special Collections, University of Illinois at Springfield
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University of Illinois at Springfie
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CARL WIITMOND ILLINOIS HOUSE OF REP
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orrrniilnity in central Illinois. A
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Carl Wittmond SESSION I, TAPE 1, SI
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A: Yes. Q: Okay. And then your fath
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County that had a spur on this side
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A: It's peculiar how you always rem
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Q: I see. (chuckles) A: Out of the
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A: . . . and he took care of you. A
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A: Oh yes. You'd have a showboat he
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A: Yes it really happened. This thi
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my motber had to scrape around here
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that's how narrow people are you kn
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you know. It wasn't too prosperous.
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A: Well, I guess it was. I guess 1
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to stay all night to go to a show a
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A: I guess that just becamea a knac
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Carl Wittmond Memoir -- Archives/Sp
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Page 81 and 82: Carl Wittmond Memoir -- Archives/Sp
Page 83 and 84: Q. (chuckles) We11 this kind of gav
Page 85 and 86: Q: You sa) you were going to school
Page 87 and 88: A: Sunir. yes, oh yes. I've got sev
Page 89 and 90: Q: LVell hou did he po about gettin
Page 91 and 92: A: Oh yes sure, they used to dl, a
Page 93 and 94: ha\.? to come hc,ll:r to t'3t or so
Page 95 and 96: Anii the Eagles anif the Elks, I ha
Page 97 and 98: half of the peul,lr never elen knrw
Page 99 and 100: A: Well, in the first place, they'd
Page 101 and 102: Monday morning from Brussels. And m
Page 103 and 104: an argunirnt Iatrr UII a1111 the12
Page 105 and 106: Q: I I a n e llad you known Paul Po
Page 107 and 108: .4: Yes, somehody got hurt and Q: .
Page 109 and 110: him. Down there - see. Blackie uras
Page 111 and 112: Nuniber two, the secretary of state
Page 113 and 114: kind of a mystery place anyway, no
Page 115 and 116: anything you'd want if you'd want i
Page 117 and 118: Q: Kind of cleaned it up then. A: B
Page 119 and 120: Q: Yes that \+-as later A: I can't
Page 121 and 122: A: Probably was I think, yes. I did
Page 123 and 124: Maybe a lot of them was in. Like Bi
Page 125 and 126: other people would go see until the
Page 127 and 128: - "Oh." he said, "he makes eighty f
Page 129 and 130: .A: Oh, in his ofice, many a time.
Page 131: district. Powell said, "YIIu'~ h~tt
Page 135 and 136: thrsrr. ant1 Iru) them. And I don't
Page 137 and 138: ;mil the key Dcrnocrats. the) xverc
Page 139 and 140: you ran't beat." I said, "Some day
Page 141 and 142: :I: Yes I ren~ernher that. :I: I pr
Page 143 and 144: .A: Yes. they was \.otiny and vice
Page 145 and 146: Q: What was your position on that?
Page 147 and 148: Q Did she usually do it at your des
Page 149 and 150: a lot of the cunstituents don't un~
Page 151 and 152: A: Yes I remember him Q: \Ye11 let'
Page 153 and 154: 11: 011 I never did get excited ove
Page 155 and 156: '1: Oh 1 probahl) thought there wer
Page 157 and 158: to hlock it if he wanted to. So man
Page 159 and 160: it would he alright or whatever the
Page 161 and 162: Q: Yes. A somrthing. fle might have
Page 163 and 164: Q: Well let's see, he lived in Edwa
Page 165 and 166: Q: Oh, I see. A: Ht. thought that 1
Page 167 and 168: in the Granite City area - he was t
Page 169 and 170: :I: Oh yes, oh yes Q: What other ro
Page 171 and 172: So I put the bill in anyway to get
Page 173 and 174: A: . . . get credit for it, see, if
Page 175 and 176: A: I ctin't rrcall anymore \\.hat i
Page 177 and 178: A: hutuhahn, over in . . . Q: Germa
Page 179 and 180: Q: Well. Do you recall any particul
Page 181 and 182: I'd voted for the bill. That would
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Q: Let's see, the Zion [Illinois Be
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:\: Ile nrust not have run ;my more
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A: Wide open sparrs, that's right.
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Q: I'd like to ask first today abwt
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.A: Yes 1 can rt,call something of
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Q: Oh. He wanted the department you
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kno~r-. (;- I could have got on but
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who knrn. sonrething ahuut agrirult
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.A: \Vr ~ntrrtainzd several - one t
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town. And a lot of people was compl
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:I: Oh, n-c went a few other places
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.A: Not at that timc but they promo
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some of then1 - hut their unions ar
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sonielhing happened. I think I had
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Index .Ahl.nhani Lincoln Hl~tcal. 1
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Hinan, Martin, 79 IIitler, Adolph,
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