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12 interviu literaturuli gazeTi 14 - 27 maisi 2010<br />

mwerali<br />

_ logikuri iqneba, Tu saubars<br />

Seni axali krebuliT daviwyebT. `negativma~<br />

ukve daimsaxura poeziis moyvarulTa<br />

maRali Sefaseba. ramdenadac<br />

vici, masSi gaerTianda rCeuli<br />

leqsebi oTxi sxvadasxva krebulidan.<br />

ra gaxda misi gamocemis safuZveli<br />

da rogori iyo samuSao procesi<br />

_ am krebulis gamocemas ramdenime<br />

mizezi hqonda: pirveli is, rom mindoda<br />

raRacnairad `wameSala~ Cemi<br />

ori Zveli wigni _ `CurCulis gakve-<br />

Tili~ da `gamomigone,~ romlebic ar<br />

miyvars, ar momwons... zustad arcki<br />

vici, ra formulireba movZebno. da<br />

kidev, mindoda gamomesworebina is<br />

xarvezebi, rac `jibis haerisa~ da `gzebi<br />

da dReebis~ gamocemisas gaipara.<br />

_ cota ar iyos, ucnauria Zveli<br />

nawerebis ase mkveTrad uaryofa.<br />

mainc ra ar mogwons pirvel or krebulSi,<br />

romliTac Tavis droze poetur<br />

sivrceSi bevris simpaTia daimsaxure<br />

_ Zalian martivad rom vTqva, ar<br />

momwons raze vwerdi, rogor vwerdi...<br />

raRacas vxlaforTobdi, siyvarulze<br />

movTqvamdi. im periodSi wignisadmi<br />

aranairi midgoma ar gamaCnda. davwerdi<br />

raRacebs, Cavyridi erTad da wigns<br />

vuwodebdi. dRes Rirebulebebi Seicvala.<br />

am gadasaxedidan wigni CemTvis<br />

sul sxva ramea.<br />

_ ras gulisxmob<br />

_ zogadad, vcdilob, ar viyo konceptualisti<br />

da msgavsi gansazRvrebebi<br />

yovelmxriv avirido, magram<br />

mimaCnia, rom wignze muSaobisas garkveuli<br />

struqturis Camoyalibeba da<br />

mis erT mTlianobaSi gaazreba aucilebelia.<br />

CemTvis mniSvnelovania vicode,<br />

ratom mosdevs erTi leqsi meores.<br />

SesaZloa, viRacisTvis meorexarisxovani<br />

iyos, magram me unda vicode.<br />

Zvel wignebSi es procesi TviTdinebazea<br />

miSvebuli. SemeZlo, Cavjdomodi<br />

da raRacebi Camesworebina,<br />

gansakuTrebiT, `CurCulis gakveTil-<br />

Si~, magram miviCnie, rom es wigni amden<br />

drod da nervebad ar Rirda. rac Seexeba<br />

danarCen ors (igulisxmeba `jibis<br />

haeri~ da `gzebi da dReebi~ _ n.k.),<br />

mindoda isini xelaxla gamocemuliyo.<br />

_ ra principiT SearCie axali krebulisTvis<br />

leqsebi<br />

_ simarTle giTxra, gansakuTrebuli<br />

principebiT ar mixelmZRvanelia,<br />

radgan sabolood, CemTvis oTxive wigni<br />

erTi mTlianobaa, erTiani koncefciiT,<br />

stiliT, TematikiTa da xelweriT<br />

Seqmnili. vfiqrob, saintereso<br />

krebuli gamovida, magram arc imas gamovricxav,<br />

rom erT dRes aRar momewonos.<br />

Tumca es ufro varaudia, radgan<br />

sakuTari Tavi iseTi dinamiuri<br />

aRar mgonia, rom es leqsebic ZvelebiviT<br />

iolad movikveTo.<br />

_ erTiani stili, Tematika da<br />

koncefcia axsene. arada, oTxive krebuli<br />

gansxvavebulia, wignidan wignamde<br />

igrZnoba cvlilebebi.<br />

_ rasakvirvelia, cvlileba iqneba,<br />

es xom bunebrivi procesia. sxvaTa<br />

Soris, im wlebis ganmavlobaSi, rodesac<br />

es wignebi cal-calke Tu erTad<br />

gamoicemoda, Cemi cxovreba mkveTrad<br />

Seicvala, rac aisaxa kidec leqsebze.<br />

mTlianobaSi es yvelaferi aris is,<br />

rasac ver gaveqeci da erTad movuyare<br />

Tavi. albaT momavalSic igives gavagr-<br />

Zeleb.<br />

_ nebismieri xelovanisTvis Zalze<br />

mniSvnelovania sakuTari Tavis Zieba<br />

SemoqmedebiT sivrceSi, gansxvavebuli<br />

stilisa Tu samwerlo enis Seqmna.<br />

rogor fiqrob, miageni Sens gamokveTil<br />

stils, Sens arxs poeziaSi<br />

_ weris procesSi Zalian bevr rameze<br />

vfiqrob, magram am sakiTxebze _<br />

arasdros. xelovnurad imis gakontroleba,<br />

rasac hqvia stili, xazi, arxi,<br />

Zalian rTulia da arabunebrivic<br />

gamodis. erTi SexedviT, SeiZleba kargi<br />

Sedegi miiRo, magram sabolood, es<br />

meTodi ar amarTlebs. yovel SemTxvevaSi,<br />

CemTan mimarTebaSi. zogadad,<br />

yvelaferSi bunebrioba miyvars. werac,<br />

rogorc sxva nebismieri saqmianoba,<br />

bunebriv procesad mimaCnia, romelic<br />

adamianis pirovnuli Tvisebebidan,<br />

Sinagani konstituciidan da xasiaTidan<br />

gamomdinareobs. rogorc<br />

unda moindomo, Tu niWi ar gaqvs, sakuTar<br />

Tavs ver gadaaxtebi. piradad me<br />

ver vityvi, rom raime gansakuTrebuls<br />

vakeTeb. stilis TvalsazrisiT Tavs<br />

standartul avtorad miviCnev. siaxlis<br />

Seqmnis moTxovnileba ar maqvs da<br />

zviad ratiani:<br />

`CemTvis oTxive wigni erTi mTlianobaa~<br />

` _ Svilo, Cven gana gaCenidan ase viyaviT!<br />

dedis muclidan, akvnidanve ki ar Segvaxma<br />

SuSis TvalebiT gawyobili cvilis niRabi;<br />

Sen es Tvalebi oci wlis win unda genaxa –<br />

anTebulebi siamayiT, Sav-mewamuli<br />

droSebis qarSi, bnel quCebSi, rodesac qSeniT<br />

xmis CaxleCamde gavyvirodiT: ena, mamuli,<br />

sarwmunoeba...~<br />

(negativi. 20 wlis Semdeg)<br />

guram wibaxaSvilis foto<br />

am sityvebis avtori zviad ratiania, erT-erTi gamorCeuli poeti<br />

Tanamedrove literaturul sivrceSi. misi leqsebi karga xania Seiyvara<br />

mkiTxvelma da miuxedavad imisa, rom siaxleebiT xSirad ar gvanebivrebs,<br />

mouTmenlad veliT misi yoveli axali wignis dabadebas.<br />

ramdenime Tvis win kidev erTi krebuli gamosca, romelSic avtoris bolo<br />

oTxi wigni gaerTianda: `boloswina leqsebi~ (2009), `Ria da faruli<br />

miZRvnebi~(2008), `gzebi da dReebi~(2005) da `jibis haeri~ (2000). aqedan pirveli<br />

ori cikli axalia, danarCen ors ki ukve icnobs mkiTxveli. krebuls `negativi~<br />

hqvia da negativis, anu ukuRma xedvis principiTaa dalagebuli. man ukve<br />

miipyro literaturis kritikosTa yuradReba da vfiqrobT, Sesabamis<br />

Sefasebasac daimsaxurebs, manamde ki Tavad avtors movusminoT.<br />

arc msgavs pirobebs vuyeneb sakuTar<br />

Tavs. erTaderTi, Cems Tavs mkacrad<br />

vuTxari: raxan ar iSli, jandabas,<br />

were leqsebi, oRond cxovrebaSi ar ipoeto.<br />

ar minda es yvelaferi gadavides<br />

yoveldRiurobaSi, qcevaSi da<br />

a.S.<br />

_ rogorc poetma, sakuTari Tavis<br />

fasi Tu ici<br />

_ ra Tqma unda. winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi,<br />

arc davbeWdavdi. miT umetes,<br />

erTxel dawerils meored aRar gamovaqveynebdi.<br />

_ bevria leqsi, romelsac ar be-<br />

Wdav<br />

_ Zalian. saerTod, nela vwer. iSviaTad<br />

gamomdis xolme is, rac minda.<br />

leqsebs, romlebSic mkveTrad avcdi<br />

Canafiqrs, aRar vaqveyneb. xandaxan<br />

maT sxva nawarmoebis `saSen masalad~<br />

viyeneb, magram ZiriTadad Tavs vanebeb<br />

da aRar vubrundebi.<br />

_ me vici, rogori TviTkritikuli<br />

xar sakuTari nawerebis mimarT.<br />

_ TviTkritikuli namdvilad var,<br />

imitom rom yvelaze ukeT vgrZnob, ra<br />

davakeli leqss, risi gakeTeba mindoda<br />

da ra gamovida. bolo dros vcdilob,<br />

amis demonstrirebisgan Tavi Sevikavo,<br />

radgan aseTma damokidebulebam<br />

SeiZleba mavani gaaRizianos. xandaxan<br />

Tavis qeba gacilebiT bunebrivia,<br />

vidre kritika. erTi ram mamSvidebs<br />

_ intervius iSviaTad viZlevi da<br />

amdenad, Cemi TviTkritikuloba saaSkaraoze<br />

naklebad gamodis. winaaRmdeg<br />

SemTxvevaSi am Temaze arc vilaparakebdi.<br />

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom sakuTar<br />

Tavs gamorCeulad ar miiCnev, bevri<br />

novator poets giwodebs. rogor<br />

fiqrob, ratom<br />

_ ver getyvi. zogadad, TiToeuli<br />

adamiani aris novacia, gamomdinare<br />

iqidan, rom ganumeorebeli genetikuri<br />

kodi aqvs da samyaroSi misi<br />

msgavsi aravinaa. rac Seexeba novacias<br />

poeziaSi, aq yvelaferi leqsis xarisxamde<br />

midis, anu, ramdenad xarisxianad<br />

vwer me, poeti zviad ratiani imas,<br />

rasac vwer. swored es ganapirobebs<br />

siaxles da zogadad, moZraobas poeziaSi.<br />

mere kidev, poezia xom TviTregulirebadi<br />

substanciaa, cocxali<br />

organizmi, romelic Tavad igonebs<br />

raRacebs.<br />

_ ras gulisxmob<br />

_ roca igrZnobs, rom novaciaa<br />

saWiro, swored maSin gamoigonebs im<br />

bages Tu kalams, romelmac es siaxle<br />

unda moitanos.<br />

_ anu, Tavad awesrigebs procesebs<br />

_ rasakvirvelia. ena cocxali<br />

organizmia, romelsacTavisi wesebi<br />

aqvs da ramdenic unda ecado, misi<br />

bunebisTvis miuRebels iZulebiT ver<br />

miaRebineb.<br />

_ enobrivi Ziebebi Tu gitacebs<br />

_ ra Tqma unda, rogorc poeziiT<br />

seriozulad dakavebul nebismier adamians,<br />

Tumca es yvelaferi TviTmiznad<br />

arasdros gamixdia. Cemi enobrivi<br />

Ziebebis ZiriTadi arsi simartivesTan<br />

midis. minda, naweri rac Sei-<br />

Zleba sada da gamWvirvale gamovides.<br />

garkveuli TvalsazrisiT, mSralic<br />

ki. azri bolomde iyos naTeli da<br />

saTqmels zustad gadmoscemdes.<br />

_ arada, bolo dros prozaSic da<br />

poeziaSic bundovanebis tendencia<br />

mZlavrobs.<br />

_ aseTi ram CemTvis kategoriulad<br />

miuRebelia, bundovanebas literaturul<br />

borotebas veZaxi. SeiZleba<br />

erTs gulisxmobde da mkiTxvelma sxva<br />

ram dainaxos, magram is, rom mizanmimarTulad<br />

daamaxinjo saTqmeli, ar mesmis.<br />

is ki ara, vcdilob naweri maqsimalurad<br />

davwmindo, rom ar darCes<br />

zedmeti SekiTxva, ar iyos zedmeti sityvebi,<br />

frazebi da saxeebi, Tundac,<br />

lamazi.<br />

_ ar SemiZlia ar gkiTxo `negativis~<br />

Sesaxeb. es aris erT-erTi saukeTeso<br />

opusi Sens bolodroindel<br />

nawerebSi. CemTvis `negativi~ im Taobis<br />

protestia, romelmac is saSineli<br />

20 weli damsxvreuli ocnebis koSkebTan<br />

erTad sakuTari mxrebiT zida. ra<br />

ganwyobiT daiwera igi<br />

_ SeiZleba kiTxvis dros es leqsi<br />

aRqmuli iyos, rogorc protesti, magram<br />

werisas aseTi ganwyoba namdvilad<br />

ar mqonia. wina planze mware mogonebebi<br />

gadmodioda, romelTac saleqso<br />

formas vaZlevdi. es leqsi erTgvari xarkia<br />

im sastiki wlebis winaSe, romelic<br />

mZime tvirTad gvawevs yvelas, vinc es<br />

wlebi gamoviareT. me erT-erTi maTgani<br />

viyavi, patara biWi, romelic droSas<br />

amayad vafrialebdi da mixaroda, rom<br />

Cemi susti xelebiT bednier saqarTvelos<br />

vaSenebdi. Tumca amas mohyva uamravi<br />

ubedureba, romelic dRemde gr-<br />

Zeldeba. am leqsSi konkretul gvamebze,<br />

konkretul adamianebze vwer. es yvelaferi<br />

CemTvis mZime gadasatania. sxvaTa<br />

Soris, im wlebis SiSi dRemde momyveba,<br />

zogjer sizmris donezec ki. mas<br />

Semdeg vufrTxi xalxmravlobasac. es ar<br />

aris poza an TamaSi, marTla konkretuli<br />

SiSia, radgan sxvebis msgavsad, im periodSi<br />

mec Tavze damemsxvra idealebi.<br />

amitomac aris CemTvis `negativi~ ara<br />

protesti, ara manifesti, aramed _ lirika.<br />

ufro zustad ki, samoqalaqo lirika.<br />

drodadro maqvs periodebi, rodesac<br />

am ganwyobis leqsebs vwer. aseTi iyo<br />

`mamebi,~ `rekviemi cocxlebisaTvis,~<br />

romlebic imave tkivilsa da gamocdilebazea<br />

agebuli.<br />

_ anu, erTi jaWvis sxvadasxva rgolia<br />

_ albaT asea. es nawerebi mkiTxvelma<br />

SeiZleba samoqalaqo an Tundac saprotesto<br />

lirikad miiCnios, CemTvis ki<br />

iseTive leqsebia, rogorc nebismieri<br />

sxva.<br />

_ sainteresoa isic, rom amdeni<br />

wlis Semdeg Tqvi saTqmeli.<br />

_ es leqsi Zalian didxans da mravalnairad<br />

iwereboda. masze muSaoba<br />

jer kidev 90-iani wlebis meore naxevridan<br />

daviwye, sabolood ki aseTi saxe miiRo.<br />

me mgoni, cudi ar aris. yovel Sem-<br />

TxvevaSi, zustad iseTi gamovida, rogoric<br />

mindoda. vfiqrob, `negativSi~<br />

Cemi SesaZleblobebis maqsimums miva-<br />

Rwie, rac iSviaTad xdeba.<br />

_ amitomac xom ar ewoda krebuls<br />

am leqsis saxeli<br />

_ erT-erTi mizezi esec iyo, Tumca<br />

ara erTaderTi. krebulis saxelwodeba<br />

bevri TvalsazrisiTaa gamarTlebuli:<br />

`negativi~ ukuRma xedvas niSnavs, wign-<br />

Si ki TariRebi ukuRmaa dalagebuli.<br />

fotografiaSi negativi firebis Senaxvas<br />

ukavSirdeba, aqac Zveli leqsebia<br />

Semonaxuli. erTi sityviT, es sityva<br />

iZleva saSualebas, qoTans yuri nebismieri<br />

mxridan moaba. ukeTesi SefuTva<br />

ver movifiqre.<br />

_ `araviTari niWi winaTgrZnobis _<br />

damindo RmerTma.<br />

magram, raTa iRblianad megrZno Tavi,<br />

momca meore _<br />

warsulis niWi.<br />

warsulis, sadac gamudmebiT raRac<br />

icvleba.~<br />

warsuli Sens nawerebSi aqtiurad<br />

figurirebs. ratom maincdamainc<br />

es Tematika<br />

_ Cems leqsebSi warsuli aqtualuria<br />

imdenad, ramdenadac ZiriTadad<br />

sakuTar Tavze vwer, sakuTar gancdebze;<br />

ambebze, romelic Tavad gadamxda,<br />

adamianebze, romlebic Cems<br />

garSemo trialeben. Cemi poezia ar<br />

aris orientirebuli zogadsakacobrio<br />

problemebze, masStabur<br />

masalaze. rasakvirvelia, es SezRudulobaa,<br />

rac Zalian ar momwons. minda<br />

gavarRvio es wre, anu, vwero ise,<br />

rom yvela leqsSi me ar vigulisxmebode.<br />

arada, yovelTvis ase gamomdis.<br />

amerikul poeziaSi arsebobs<br />

termini _ `aRsarebiTi poezia,~ romelic<br />

yvelaze zustad miesadageba<br />

Cems Semoqmedebas. aq igulisxmeba<br />

rogorc cxovrebiseuli biografia,<br />

aseve SemoqmedebiTic. rodesac sakuTar<br />

Tavze wer, grCeba mxolod warsuli.<br />

_ awmyosa da momavalSi Tavs ver<br />

xedav<br />

_ momavali CemTvis mxolod ke-<br />

Tili survilebiT Semoifargleba.<br />

zogadad, meocnebe ar var da arc im<br />

asakSi vyofilvar, roca, wesiT, unda<br />

vyofiliyavi. bavSvobas vgulisxmob.<br />

_ sevdasa da melanqoliaze ras<br />

ityvi Sens leqsebSi xSirad saocari<br />

sevda igrZnoba.<br />

_ yovelTvis mindoda, cota ufro<br />

msubuqad mewera, magram gamodioda<br />

ise, rom ironiisa da cinizmis<br />

mcdelobebis miuxedavad, risi gamoxatvac<br />

konkretul leqsSi mindoda,<br />

sabolood sevda rCeboda.<br />

_ erTi periodi aqtiurad iyavi<br />

dakavebuli TargmaniT. mkiTxvels<br />

axsovs Sens mier gadmoqarTulebuli<br />

celani, elioti, rilke... amJamad<br />

Tu Targmni<br />

_ iseTi intensivobiT veRar. samwuxarod<br />

Tu sabednierod, dro cota<br />

maqvs da mirCevnia sakuTar Semoqmedebas<br />

movaxmaro. ise, mzad maqvs<br />

amerikeli poetis, mark strendis<br />

leqsebi. sakmao masala damigrovda,<br />

magram jerjerobiT gamocemas ver<br />

vaxerxeb. drodadro wvril-wvril<br />

Targmanebsac vaqveyneb, magram im six-<br />

SiriT ara, rogorc `arilis~ xanaSi.<br />

_ Sens poeziaSi ra xdeba am krebulis<br />

Semdeg Seisveneb Tu kidev<br />

gvimzadeb rames<br />

_ krebulSi Sesuli axali wignebi<br />

sruli saxiT ar aris warmodgenili.<br />

`boloswina leqsebica~ da `Ria da faruli<br />

miZRvnebic~ gacilebiT mas-<br />

Staburia. aq mxolod mcire nawili<br />

Sevida. SeiZleba iTqvas, rom am gamocemiT<br />

Cemi axali wigni davaanonse.<br />

bevri leqsi damrCa, gansakuTrebiT<br />

`boloswina leqsebidan~, romelTac<br />

aucileblad gamovaqveyneb.<br />

_ anu, gagrZeleba iqneba.<br />

_ aucileblad, oRond droa sa-<br />

Wiro. ideebi mawuxebs, Tumca maT jer<br />

amorfuli saxe aqvs. am etapze goneba-<br />

Si mxolod carieli formebia, romlebic<br />

sityvebiT unda Sevavso. Semdeg<br />

ki iqneba gagrZeleba. sxvanairad Seu-<br />

Zlebelic aris, radgan sabolood, am<br />

saqmianobiT bednieri var.<br />

esaubra nana kobaiZe

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