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Yes. C 14 Second Meeting. FRIDAY, 30TH NOVEMBER, 1923. PRESENT: The Hon'ble Mr. A. M. POVNTNEY, C.M.G., C.B.B., (ChaimlCu,). The Hon'ble Dr. D. ]. GALLOWAY. Mr. LIM NEB SOON. Mr. S. J. CHAN. Mr. L. McLEAN.. Mr. A. S. JELF. Mr. A F. RICBAll.DS, (Sur,eory). The Hon'ble Mr. D. BEATTY was called. 184. Chairmon.-What is your full name ?-DAVID BEAny. 185. You are the Secretary for Chinese Aiairs, Straits Settlements 1- 186. You joined the Straits Settlements Civil Service 25 years ago ?-That is so. 187. You have studied and passed in two dialects of Chinese, Cantonese and Hokkien ?-Yes. 188. The majority of your service has been in Chinese appointments 1- Yes, more than half. 189. You were a member of a Committee appointed in 1919 to report upon the opium question, and, apart from any other knowledge of the matters referred to this Committee, you made a special study of the subject for the purpose of the Committee I have just referred to ?-Yes. 19o. What are your own personal views on the opium smoking habit as indulged in in the Straits Settlements ?-That in the vast majority of cases it does not do the smoker any more harm-if as much harm-as whisky drinking amongst Europeans. 191. Would you say that indulgence in this habit has been increasing in rEcent years, or otherwise ?-That is a very difficult question to answer. 1 do not think it has increased in proportion to the growth of the population. 192. Has the opium smoking habit any direct connection with the wave of lawlessness we hear so much about at present ?-No. 193. You are aware of the measures that are in existence controlling the. use of opium in the Colony. Have you any suggestions as to increasing or tightening up those measures?-The only effective measure that I can think of is bringing in a system of sale by Government shops as apart from sale by licensed outsiders. 194. Mr. lelf.-The system that obtains in the Federated Malay States ?-I am not certain about what they are doing in the Federated Malay States. 195. Chairman.-When you speak of Government shops, would you include the smoking shops as well all the retail shops ?-Yes, I would. 196 Do you see any objection to smoking shops per se or would you abolish them ?-I would not abolish them. I think they serve a want amongst the coolie classes who, if they did not have such places to go to, would frequent either unlicensed and sly dross shops, or frequent Pang Kengs for the purpose of smoking
C 15 197 The atmosphere, then, of a smoking shop is not necessarily an inducement to excess of the habit ?-I do not think so. As a matter of fact, it prevents excess, because a man thinks two or three times before leaving his living quarters to go out to smoke, whereas if there were no licensed smoking shops he would buy and take the chandu to his quarters, or his PIJng Keng or his Coolie Keng and possibly smoke a good deal more than when he has to go out for it. 198. You recommend the Government shops, which is part of one of our references. Would you say that under the existing system there was any actual pushing of sales? The temptation may be there, but have you heard of any suggestion of pushing sales by the present retailers ?-I have never heard of it. 199. Then may I ask you just to say what is the feature that would appeal to you about running Government shops, as opposed to private shops ?- (IJ) That it would do away with the misconception that by having :>utsiders running shops there is a pushing of sales, and (b) Greater control over the destruction of chandu dross. 200 You consider the use of chandu dross to be much more noxious, I presume, than chandu itself ?-A great deal more. 201. Dr. GIJl/owIJy.-Do you think that there is much swallowing of chandu dross ?-I do not know about that, but there is a considerable COllsumption of chandu dross retailed clandestinely. 202. ChIJinnIJn.-It would be quite impossible, I suppose, to get from every customer of a retail shop the dross equivalent to his last purchase before you sold him any more ?-Practically, I think it would be impossible. But I think that if you had a Government shop under strict supervision you would get back more chandu dross than you get now. 203. Would you give bonuses for the return of chandu dross or not? I do not think so. I think it would give rise to abuses. 204. I was thinking, of course, of something in the nature of those soap coupons and such-like things. Could you have any system like that in order to induce the people to bring back their full residue ?-That question is put to me without notice, but my first feeling on hearing your question is that it would not attain the object aimed at. 205. Have you yourself, in coming in contact with an enormous number of Chinese, noticed any marked inferiority, mental or physical, of the opium smoker as compared with the. non-smoker ?-Only in very exceptional cases wh",re the man has become an opium sot, on the same lines as one hears of the habitual drunkard at home. 206 The sot would, relatively, even compared with the total number of smokers, be very infrequent ?-I have come across them very exceptionally. 207. And you have seen thousands and thousands of Chinese ?-I would not like to say how many. .. 208. Would" you call this a purely China-born habit, and is it practically confined to male adults or not ?-It is not purely China-born. There are a certain number of Straits-born Chinese who smoke opium. Smoking is not absolutely confined to males; I have known a certain number of females Straits-born and otherwise, who smoked chandu. ' 209. Non-adults ?-I do not remember ever seeing a case. 210. Mr. Jelf.-Of what social standing were the females ?-I could instance two Chinese ladies in Singapore; I could also instance a certain number of lower class women. 2II. ChIJ;muJn.-Would the Chinese women acquire it from preparing the smoke for their male relatives or not?-That I cannot say. There is now no preparation, so far as I am aware, of chandu in the chandu smoking rooms
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BRITISH MALAYA OPIUM COMMITTEE. PRO
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A. PART I. REPORT. LIST OF ATTENDAN
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AS 30. For comparative purposes the
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All J.'emarking that there is ample
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A 13 6. We feel that there is great
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A IS 19. Inquiries in regard to con
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Au VI. EXISTING MEASURES 01' CONTRO
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A ,8 in .the &.ttractiveness and pr
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A 35 so many millions of such small
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A 43 20. There is also the general
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A 49 REGISTRATION AND LICENSING STA
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A S2 45. We proceed a step further
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A 58 measure will be possible and t
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A60 (c) wages of Chinese labour are
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A 62 XVII. EDUCATION AS TEE MEANS o
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A 73 Seventeenth Meeting. KUALA LUM
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APPENDICES i TO THE REPORT OF THE B
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86 APPENDIX VI. Mr. Beatty's Eviden
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Date. B 17 [APP)!NDIX XV.-Contd. TR
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B 20 APPENDIX XV Ill. Evidenoe of D
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, B 30 APPENDIX XXVII. Opium Smoker
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Year Mohammedan. 1332 . .. 1333 ...
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B 4S MALACCA. Shop A.-Licensed for
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B SO APPENDIX XLII. REPORT ON ENQUI
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1332 1333 1334 1335 1336 1337 1338
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B 61 APPENDIX·LIII. RETURN OF PROS
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[ApPENDIX LIX.-Contd. This might le
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ApPENDIX LXVI.-Contd.] corruption i
Page 168: APPENDIX LXVIII.-Cootd.] , B 88 18.
Page 183 and 184: B 103 [ApPENDIX LXXI.-Contd. The se
Page 186 and 187: APPENDIX LXXI.-Contd.] B 106 should
Page 189 and 190: B109 [ApPENDIX LXXI.-Contd. TABLE 3
Page 191: Bill [APPENDIX LXXI.-Contd. A.-SMOK
Page 195: B lIS [APPENDIX LXXII.-Contd. 17. I
Page 200: B 1'0 APPENDIX. LXXVI. LETTER FROM
Page 203 and 204: c. PART III. LIST OF WITNESSES. EVI
Page 205: • lDth Jrleeting. KOEH THENG LI
Page 216: c. 4Z. And 1 suggest that if 19'11
Page 233: -C 21 by the arrival of opium _sino
Page 239: C 27 J40 The price now is $12 a tah
Page 246: C 34 453. CItIJirmaIJ.-What wages d
Page 249 and 250: C 37 Ho Aa KUM was called. 494· Ch
Page 251 and 252: C 39 546. Many more ?-Only a little
Page 253 and 254: C 41 590. Do you think those who dr
Page 256 and 257: CH LEONG Aft Malt was called. 653.
Page 260: 739. For how many years. does the o
Page 266 and 267: C !i4 WONG AH CHONG was called. 8J8
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C S6 8;6. Mr. Ie/I.-Do JOu consider
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C60 957. From what they have told y
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C 67 1091. That looks like an enorm
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C 77 were smokers would be allowed
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. . 1347. Supposing you could have
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C 88 1426. Is swallowing dross
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C 91 Seventh Keeting. FRIDAY, 14TH
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C 9S with a lot of illicit chandu.
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C 100 1633. It is not a matter of o
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C ,14 • 1913 Supposing the Superi
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C 120 . 2046. You could find Chines
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C 130 . 2242. That is not the guest
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C 137 2236. For what purpose ?-It m
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C 140 2398· What do you mean by re
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C 141 2435. How many times have you
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C 147 2510. This is a return of the
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C 153 26u. Some people come here an
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2926. Do many Malays smoke?-Yes, ma
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3007. Would you be willing to regis
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C 188 3II4. Mr. McLeGII.-Could not
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3248. What about the leader of the
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C 201 3346. Talking of rickshaw coo
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3419. You consider that opium using
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3624. You spoke of the anti-opium m
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C2lI8 37590. No case of insanity fr
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C 250 4053. The men you have there
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418J. How much do you think would b
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4277. What do you mean by compulsor
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C268 Mr. TAN BOON CHENG was called.
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C 279 4585. I suggest that you can
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BRITISH MALAY A OPIUM COMMITTEE. AN
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Government Shops • ....,.Sale by
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C 291 PAGE 65. HO SAM, Pattern make
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C 300 General.-I do not think that
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C 310 Smuggllng.-If you increase co
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