Quality Progress - American Society for Quality

Dennis Arter
J.P. Russell
17167 Letter: Why Is
ASQ Staff
Oct-21-03
Very entertaining article by Dennis Arter and J.P. Russell ("Ethics, Auditing and Enron,"
October 2003, p. 34). I am puzzled by their claim the word "independent" is "awful."
Audit, by its definition, is independent. On what basis is independence an awful word?
Could it be that they see independent as an absolute term? Perhaps Arter and Russell
would argue absolute independence is only possible when no transaction (money) has
passed between the auditee and the auditor, for example, when an insurance company
audits their insureds to assess how they manage risk before determining the price of their
policy (seems sensible but an uncommon event). The Arthur Andersen debacle with
Enron was reported to be precisely due to their lack of independence. Practically,
independence is a relative term when applied to audit as I believe the following three
examples illustrate. 1. Internal auditors do not audit their own work. 2. Financial
auditors do not provide financial consulting or training. 3. Accredited registrars do not
make the systems they certify depend on them for conformity. I look forward to learning
why we have an "awful word" in our definition of audit.
John R. Broomfield
Quality Management International, Inc.
jbroomfield@aworldofquality.com
17142 Letter: A Truly Integrated System
ASQ Staff
Oct-17-03
This article (Mayr McDonald, Terry Mors and Ann Phillips, "Management System
Integration: Can It Be Done?" October 2003, p. 67)) made some excellent points about
combining the subsystems for assuring quality, improving safety and preventing
pollution. Combined subsystems running alongside the business management system are
not really integrated. The more correct term, "combined," comes from ISO 19011 which
provides guidelines for the combined auditing of quality and environmental management
systems. Indeed, the article mentioned industry management systems but did not mention
the unique business management system actually used to run each and every
organization; perhaps by adding value faster and preventing loss sooner. For our clients,
a truly integrated system is the process-based management system that is used to add
value faster and prevent loss sooner while conforming to any system standard (including
to ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and their derivatives).
John R. Broomfield
President and CEO