patara gorma `qarTul ocnebas~ didi guli aCvena
patara gorma `qarTul ocnebas~ didi guli aCvena
patara gorma `qarTul ocnebas~ didi guli aCvena
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#32 (216), 18-24.VII, 2012 w.<br />
ggvveessaauubbrreebbaa ddiipplloommaattii,, bbiiZZiinnaa<br />
iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss mmrrCCeevveellii zaza<br />
gogsaZe::<br />
_ batono zaza, xelisuflebam<br />
gasul kviras 60 aTasi lariT<br />
dagajarimaT. rodemde SeiZleba<br />
represiebi gagrZeldes, ra<br />
gamosavals xedavT?<br />
_ es xelisuflebis Cveuli<br />
qmedebaa, amaSi axali araferia.<br />
Tu vinmes partiebSi, organizaciebSi<br />
Tanxa aqvs gadaricxuli,<br />
yvelas ibareben da ajarimeben. xelisufleba<br />
maqsimalurad cdilobs<br />
mosaxleobis, amomrCevlis<br />
daSinebas. xalxs gvagrZnobineben,<br />
rom yvelafers Tavad akontroleben<br />
da maTi morCilni unda viyoT.<br />
12 aTasi lari sazogadoebriv<br />
moZraoba<br />
<strong>`qarTul</strong> ocnebaSi~ gadavricxe,<br />
romlis damfuZnebeli<br />
biZina ivaniSvilia,<br />
me ki erT-er-<br />
Ti TanadamfuZnebeli<br />
gaxlavarT. es igive Cemi<br />
saxlia. sakuTar saxl-<br />
Si 12 aTasi lari mqonda<br />
Senaxuli, Tanxa erTi<br />
saxlidan meoreSi gadavricxe,<br />
risi uflebac<br />
Turme ar mqonia.<br />
Tu es fuli moparuli maqvs,<br />
an arakanonieri gziT viSove, ma-<br />
Sin unda damiWiron, xom?! ras<br />
niSnavs davasabuTo, saidan maqvs<br />
Cemi kuTvnili fuli?! maT Tavad<br />
unda damisabuTon Tu damnaSave<br />
var. kontrolis palataSi davwere<br />
axsna-ganmarteba, rom sxva Semosavlebic<br />
gamaCnia, risi Semowmebac<br />
maT Tavisuflad SeeZloT.<br />
aseve aRvniSne, rom 2005-2008<br />
wlebSi, italiaSi saqarTvelos<br />
sagangebo da sruluflebiani el-<br />
Ci viyavi da Cemi yovelwliuri<br />
Semosavali 6 aTas evros Seadgenda.<br />
garda amisa, manamde gaeros<br />
misiaSi Zalian maRalanazRaurebadi<br />
samsaxuri mqonda. ase, rom Tavisuflad<br />
SemeZlo, erTi Tvis<br />
xelfasi gadadebuli mqonoda. sasamarTloze<br />
aranairi Semxvedri<br />
kiTxvebi ar dasmula, kontrolis<br />
palatis warmomadgeneli cinikurad<br />
icinoda.<br />
xelisuflebas Cveulebad<br />
eqca adamiani<br />
arafrad Caagdos. miznis<br />
misaRwevad ukan<br />
araferze daixeven, yovelgvarzRvargadasul<br />
ukanonobaze moaweren<br />
xels, magram ase<br />
didxans aRar gagrZeldeba.<br />
yvelafers aqvs<br />
zRvari, ar SeiZleba<br />
usamarTloba usasrulod<br />
grZeldebodes da<br />
amas demokratiis fasadiT<br />
niRbavde. Tu diqtatori<br />
xar da ginda<br />
bolomde aseTad darCe,<br />
maSin nuRar TvalTmaqcob<br />
TiTqos demokratiis<br />
Suqura xar. aseT<br />
SemTxvevaSi, gagakritikeben,<br />
sxva kategoriis<br />
qveynebSi gadaxval, magram<br />
pretenzia aRar geqneba<br />
demokratiuli qveyana<br />
iyo.<br />
ucxo aravisTvisaa, rom Cven-<br />
Tan demokratia mxolod fasaduria,<br />
xolo Signidan tipiuri<br />
diqtatura da avtokratiaa, sadac<br />
sasamarTlo saerTod ar arsebobs<br />
_ mosamarTleebis mier<br />
gamotanili gadawyvetilebebis<br />
99 procenti damadanaSaulebelia,<br />
rac arnaxuli cifria, es<br />
arc erT demokratiul qveyanaSi<br />
ar xdeba. warmogidgeniaT, elCs<br />
eubnebian 12 aTasi lari saidan<br />
gqondao. Cvens qveyanaSi arse-<br />
saerTo gazeTi<br />
Tu saakaSvili zRvargadasul<br />
ukanonobebs gaagrZelebs, xalxi mas Tavad<br />
gamoagdebs avlabris rezidenciidan<br />
bul sasamarTlos samarTlians<br />
namdvilad ver uwodeb. es sasamarTlos<br />
garda yvelaferia. es<br />
aris saakaSvilis jibis sasamar-<br />
Tlo. amaSi sakuTari gamocdilebiT<br />
davrwmundi. saapelaciomac<br />
yovelgvari axsna-ganmartebis<br />
gareSe wina gadawyvetileba<br />
ucvlelad datova ZalaSi. sasamarTlos<br />
gadawyvetilebaSi kuriozuli<br />
Secdoma aRmovaCineT<br />
_ daskvnaSi miTiTebulia, rom<br />
aRniSnuli Tanxa ver meqneboda,<br />
radgan 2006 wlis oqtomberSi<br />
elCis Tanamdebobidan gavTavisufldi,<br />
rac sicruea. sinamdvileSi,<br />
Cemi elCis Tanamdebobidan<br />
gaTavisufleba 2008 wlis agvistos<br />
moxda. me Tu mkiTxavT,<br />
mxolod es Secdomaa sakmarisi,<br />
raTa saqme dairRves da samarTlianad<br />
moxdes misi xelaxali<br />
ganxilva.<br />
am fonze, bunebrivia,<br />
xelisuflebis mxridan<br />
yvelaferia mosalodneli.<br />
aravin icis, xalxis<br />
winaaRmdeg kidev ra<br />
represiebs ganaxorcieleben,<br />
magram, merwmuneT,<br />
rac ufro agresiul<br />
formebs mimarTaven<br />
sakuTari xalxis winaaRmdeg,<br />
Zalian male bumerangiviTdaubrundebaT<br />
ukan.<br />
maTsave interesSia, ara<br />
sityviT, aramed realurad Tavisufali<br />
arCevnebi Caataron. soflebSi,<br />
sadac realuri informacia<br />
xelmiuwvdomelia, xalxs<br />
ajereben, TiTqos <strong>`qarTul</strong> <strong>ocnebas~</strong><br />
ruseTis Semoyvana gvinda.<br />
amitom mosaxleobas uSualod<br />
vxvdebiT da maT simarTles veubnebiT.<br />
Cven ruseTi okupantad<br />
gvyavs gamocxadebuli. momavals<br />
natoSi, evrokavSirSi gawevrianebiT<br />
vxedavT. Tumca ruseTTan<br />
urTierTobebi mosagvarebelia. im<br />
okupantTanac dalaparakebaa sa-<br />
Wiro, amisTvis nabijebi unda gadaidgas.<br />
_ batono zaza, Tqveni dajarimebis<br />
Temas davubrundeT. rogorc<br />
viciT, kerZo pirs ama Tu<br />
im organizaciaSi kanonmdeblobiT<br />
60 aTasi laris gadaricxva SeuZlia.<br />
Tqveni 12 aTasi lari ratom<br />
gaxda problema da ra gzas ir-<br />
CevT _ gadaixdiT jarimas?<br />
_ medavebian, saidan mqonda 12<br />
aTasi lari, daasabuTe, rom es<br />
legaluri Tanxaao. Tu es Cemi<br />
fuli ar aris, Tu<br />
vinme gavZarcve an<br />
raime maqinacia Cavidine,<br />
dasaWeri<br />
vyofilvar, xom<br />
da damiWiron ma-<br />
Sin?! 12 aTasi lariswarmomavlobaze<br />
medavebian.<br />
warmogidgeniaT,<br />
evropis nebismieri<br />
qveynis yofili<br />
elCi sasamarTlo-<br />
Si daibaron da pasuxi<br />
mohkiTxon<br />
12 aTasi laris<br />
gadaricxvis gamo<br />
da 60 aTasiT daajarimon.<br />
es absurdia,<br />
Tanac Tanxa<br />
iseT sazogadoebriv<br />
moZraoba-<br />
Si gadavricxe,<br />
romlis erT-erTi<br />
damfuZnebeli Tavad var. es Wirveuli<br />
bavSvis saqcielia. jarimis<br />
gadaxdas ar vapireb, jer erTi,<br />
imitom, rom jarima kanondarRveviT<br />
damakisres. Tanac 60 aTasi<br />
lari rom gadavixado, araviTari<br />
garantia ar maqvs, rom xelisufleba<br />
ar metyvis, es 60 aTasi saidan<br />
gqondao da amis gamo kidev<br />
300 aTasiT ar damajarimebs. amaT<br />
yvelafris gakeTeba SeuZliaT.<br />
rac undaT, is hqnan, maT SeuZliaT<br />
yvelanairi ziani momayenon, Zalaufleba<br />
maT xelSia, magram male<br />
ase aRar iqneba. qonebas<br />
Tu damiyadaReben, amas<br />
kanonis farglebSi gavaprotesteb,<br />
magram am qveyanaSi<br />
samarTali ar aris.<br />
amitom velodebiT arCevnebs,<br />
raTa qveyanaSi samar-<br />
Tlianoba aRvadginoT.<br />
_ Tundac Tqveni konkretuli<br />
SemTxvevidan aSkaraa,<br />
rom, rogorc zRaprebSia,<br />
qveyanas gveleSapia<br />
dapatronebuli _ rasac<br />
mogvTxovs, yvelafers vaZlevT.<br />
Tu ase gagrZelda<br />
da yvelafris ufleba miveciT,<br />
xom SeiZleba saer-<br />
Tod SegvWamos?<br />
_ gamoCndeba ciskara<br />
da devs, romelic sofels<br />
wyals ar aZlevs, daamarcxebs,<br />
xalxi ki gaimarjvebs.<br />
arCevnebi axlovdeba,<br />
xalxi mzadaa am procesisTvis.<br />
xelisufleba SeSinebulia da<br />
provokaciebs gviwyobs. aq sxva<br />
situaciaa _ gveleSapi ukanonod<br />
iTxovs yvelafers da miaqvs kidec,<br />
magram Cven ki ar vaZlevT,<br />
Tavad miaqvs Zaladobrivad. ivaniSvilma<br />
jarima ar gadaixada da<br />
amis gamo moZalade saakaSvilma<br />
banki waarTva. ra unda eqna ivaniSvils,<br />
ukanonod dakisrebuli<br />
jarima gadaexada?!<br />
_ geTanxmebiT, magram ase Cumad<br />
rodemde viyoT, am ukanonobebze<br />
Tvali rodemde davxuWoT,<br />
xma xom unda amoviRoT, gamovxatoT<br />
protesti, Tundac amxela<br />
qonebis warTmevis gamo. iseTi piri<br />
uCans ,gveleSapi arCevnebamde<br />
apirebs Cvens SeWmas.<br />
_ sam TveSi ver SegvWams, rogorme<br />
gavZlebT. qarTvelebs ufro<br />
meti gansacdelisTvis gauZlia<br />
da axlac gavZlebT. Cven anomaliuri<br />
viTareba gvaqvs im mxrivac,<br />
rom finansuri saxsrebis gamoyeneba<br />
mxolod xelisuflebis-<br />
Tvisaa nebadarTuli. miuxedavad<br />
amisa, dRes xalxis Segneba imdenad<br />
maRalia, CvenTvis sasurvel<br />
Sedegs aucileblad miviRebT.<br />
_ Tumca xalxi, romelic mxolod<br />
mayureblad vaqcieT, ramdenad<br />
SeiZleba TqvenTvis gamarjvebis<br />
sawindari iyos?<br />
_ xalxma icis, rom arCevnebamde<br />
unda mivides. qveynisTvis<br />
axla xalxis gareT gamosvla da<br />
sxva gziT siaruli damRupvelia.<br />
es unda swored xelisuflebas.<br />
igi am ukanonobebs swored imitom<br />
akeTebs, rom opozicia aiZulos<br />
xalxi gareT gamoiyvanon. an<br />
Tavad xalxs Seuqmnas iseTi pirobebi,<br />
rom sakuTari nebiT gareT<br />
gamovidnen, magram Cven movuwodebT<br />
xalxs, ar ahyvnen am provokacias.<br />
Tu xelisufleba mainc<br />
gamoiyvans xalxs da saqmes<br />
kidev ufro gaarTulebs, mere ukve<br />
veRaravin gansazRvravs, ra<br />
moxdeba. RmerTma gvaSoros yvelaferi<br />
cudisagan. mainc mgonia,<br />
xelisufleba keTilgonierebas<br />
gamoiCens da arCevnebi metnaklebad<br />
obieqturad Catardeba. darwmunebuli<br />
var opozicia gaimarjvebs.<br />
_ Tumca faqtia, rom dRes<br />
xelisufleba ivaniSvils jabnis,<br />
Tavidan es xalxSi TanagrZnobas<br />
aCens, magram, SeiZleba, dadges<br />
momenti, roca mosaxleoba dafiqrdeba<br />
imaze, Tu rogor unda uSvelos<br />
im adamianma, romelic sa-<br />
kuTar Tavs ver Svelis, da xalxi<br />
Zlieris mxares daiWers, anu<br />
xelisuflebis. es xom xalxis<br />
Tvisebaa?<br />
_ ara. saakaSvili amiT siZlieres<br />
ki ara, sisustes amJRavnebs.<br />
xelisuflebis gadawyvetilebebi<br />
absoluturad araadekvaturia, es<br />
misi sisustea, rasac mSvenivrad<br />
grZnobs xalxi. xalxi Tavad gveubneba<br />
_ arauSavs, arCevnebi Catardeba<br />
da yvelaferi rigze iqnebao.<br />
manamde moviTmenT.<br />
_ batono zaza, rogor fiqrobT,<br />
26 maisis kompleqsidan ar<br />
unda gamovideT? gasagebia, maSin<br />
xelisuflebam gaugonari ram Caidina<br />
_sakuTari xalxis sisxli<br />
daRvara, magram es mxolod imitom<br />
moaxerxa, rom im avbediT Rames<br />
cota adamiani iyo Sekrebili<br />
da maT advilad moeria, magram<br />
200-300 aTas kacs xom ver moereva?<br />
_ gasagebia, magram sad gamoviyvanoT<br />
es 200 aTasi kaci? kargiT,<br />
davuSvaT davgegmeT aqcia da<br />
ivlisis bolos 200 aTasi kaci<br />
gamoviyvaneT da ra vuTxraT maT,<br />
rom xelisufleba gadaayenon?!<br />
modis, batono, oqtombris arCevnebi<br />
da iq kanonis farglebSi gavakeToT<br />
es saqme, xom SeiZleba?!<br />
_ rogor ar SeiZleba, magram<br />
swored magaSia saqme, rom bevri<br />
xedavs saSiSroebas, rom imis gamo,<br />
ra represiebsac xelisufleba<br />
wina saarCevno periodSi axorcielebs,<br />
SeiZleba, arCevnebamde<br />
saerTod ver mivaRwioT.<br />
_ 27 maiss da Semdgomac<br />
sxvadasxva regionebSi aqciebze<br />
quCaSi gamosuli uamravi adamiani<br />
swored xelisuflebis gasafr-<br />
Txileblad gamovida gareT. xelisufleba<br />
ukve agoniaSia. axla,<br />
200 aTasi kaci kidev rom gamovideT<br />
da xelisuflebas gadadeqio<br />
davuZaxoT, amiT qveynis ganviTarebas<br />
SevuSliT xels.<br />
_ Tundac Tqveni SemTxveva<br />
aviRoT, gana es imis maniSnebeli<br />
araa, rom xelisufleba ufro<br />
uares qmedebebze moawers xels?<br />
_ ki, ra Tqma unda,<br />
yvela ukanonoba, ganxorcielebulirepresiebi,<br />
maT Soris dajarimeba-dayadaRebebi<br />
swored amis maniSnebelia,<br />
magram gaaCnia, es<br />
ra wertilamde miva. Tu<br />
aman arnaxuli masStabebi<br />
SeiZina, mere xalxs<br />
rac ar unda vukiJinoT<br />
ar gamoxvideo,<br />
maT veraferi Sea-<br />
Cerebs da quCaSi<br />
mainc gamovlen.<br />
Tu xelisuflebis<br />
qmedebebi kidev<br />
ufro gadavida<br />
zRvars, xalxs veravin<br />
daakavebs.<br />
saakaSvili Tu ar-<br />
Cevnebs ar daTmobs<br />
da gayalbebaze<br />
wava, xalxi<br />
Tavad daaTmobinebs.<br />
rodesac xelisuflebisqmedebebi<br />
zRvars gadava,<br />
xalxi Tavis<br />
sityvas ityvis,<br />
mainc miaRwevs Tavisas<br />
da saakaSvili<br />
mainc wava.<br />
viciT, rom xelisufleba<br />
ukanonobas ukanonobaze sCadis,<br />
magram arCevnebi karsaa momdgari<br />
da <strong>didi</strong> moTmineba gvmarTebs,<br />
raTa es xelisufleba Sin mSvidobianad,<br />
kanonieri gziT gavistumroT.<br />
nuravis hgonia, rom arCevnebze<br />
xmebis arnaxuli gayalbebis<br />
SemTxvevaSi, xelisuflebas pasuxs<br />
ar mosTxoven. saerTaSoriso<br />
Tanamegobrobam, partniorma qveynebma<br />
yvelam ician, rom xelisufleba<br />
ukanonod iqceva. Cven vambobT,<br />
modiT, es ukanonoba oqtomberSi<br />
davasruloT. xelisuflebisTvis<br />
xalxis azri cnobilia.<br />
miuxedavad mosaxleobis ganwyobisa,<br />
Tu xelisufleba yvela daSvebul<br />
zRvars gadava, Caidens kidev<br />
damatebiT ukanonobebs da xelisuflebaSi<br />
yofnis gaxangrZlivebas<br />
Seecdeba, maSin xalxs win veraferi<br />
daudgeba da Tavad gamoagdeben<br />
im sasaxlidan, sadac zis.<br />
Tu saakaSvili arCevnebis gayalbebas<br />
ecdeba, vimeoreb, xalxi mas<br />
rezidenciidan gamoagdebs.<br />
Tamar SveliZe<br />
9
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