qronika+39(300)

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com

yovelkvireuli gazeTi

mirian mirianaSvili:

gv. 16

gamodis samSabaTobiT N39 (300) 10.12

12.201

.2019 fasi 2 lari

`dagegmilia xelisuflebis

bokeriasTvis gadabareba~

gogi wulaia:

`quTaisSi

`demiSizacias~

loTebi, bomJebi

da narkomanebi

iTxovdnen!~

didi SantaJi _ jandacvis

saministro prokuratura xdeba!

gv. 12

laSa CxartiSvili:

`lobios

diqtatorma

ivaniSvilma

daWerebiT

kobaxiZeebi da

TalakvaZeebi

SeaSinos~

gv. 8

giorgi botkoveli:

`protesti manamde

gagrZeldeba,

sanam Sedegs ar

mivaRwevT~

gv. 18

gv. 2

gv. 28

ra gamoZiebas iwyebs ekaterine

tikaraZe da saidan moitana

41 000 gardacvlili pacienti?

sasuliero akademia-seminariis koSmarebi

da giorgi zviadaZis siSlegeni

giorgi tiginaSvili: `kremlis imperialisturi da

kolonialisturi zraxvebi mudamJams moRalate da

karieristi personebis bazaze idga~

armaz axvlediani:

ìvaniSvili kidev

ufro daamZimebs

viTarebas da met

Secdomas dauSvebs~

salome samadaSvili:

ès xelisufleba

sul ufro

represiuli

reJimis saxes iRebs~

kaxa miqaia:

`saqarTveloSi

`qarTuli

ocnebis~

`demiSizacia~

xelidan

araferi didi xania, sikeTe

damTavrebulia~ aRar gamova~

gv. 4 gv. 6 gv. 10

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

1

jandacvis saministros gancx-

adebas klinikebis Ria werilze

ucvlelad gTavazobT:

„aRsaniSnavia is garemoebac,

rom mxolod 2018 wels 41 000-ze

meti gardacvalebis maCvenebeli

dafiqsirda sayovelTao jandacvis

programis farglebSi dafinansebuli

momsaxurebis SemTxvevebSi”

(41 000 gardacvlili pacienti

mkurnalobis Sedegad erTi

wlis ganmavlobaSi. jer sad xarT!

_ T. r.). garda statistikisa, yuradRebas

ipyrobs gardacvalebis

mizezebis analizi. mizezebs Soris

mravlad aris warmodgenili iseTi

nozologiebi, romelTa xarisxiani

movlisa da kvalificiuri daxmarebis

pirobebSi, ara letaluri

gamosavliT, aramed pacientis gamojanmrTelebiT

dasrulebis Sesa-

Zlebloba arsebobda (anu klinikebs

pirdapir eubneba, Tqven „mokaliTo”,

_ T. r.). analizma aseve cxadyo,

rom gardacvalebis konkretuli

mizezi, erTsa da imave samedicino

dawesebulebaSi, maRali

jeradobiT dafiqsirda, rac safu-

Zvlian eWvs badebs, aqvs Tu ara

klinikas sakmarisi SesaZlebloba,

marTos is mdgomareobebi, razec

mas aqvs miniWebuli ufleba (da ai,

axla! muqaris pirdapiri teqsti! _

T. r.). saministro zedmiwevniT gamoiZiebs

gardacvlili pacientebis

uklebliv yvela SemTxvevas, rasac

aucileblad moyveba Sesabamisi reagireba”.

ai, ase! viva cezar! viva ekaterine!

biZinas garda namdvilad ver-


didi SantaJi _ jandacvis

bolo aTi dRea, jandacvis min-

Tamar rostiaSvili

istr ekaterine tikaraZes fria-

577 10 07 06

dosani merveklaselis saxe aqvs...

depresiaSia... gakveTili xuTianze

rom ver Caabara, gamoTvlebSi raRac aeria, arada, saxlSi friadi

unda miitanos, rom ar dasajos... dedikom (politikur an-

alogs Tu gavavlebT, maSin mamikom). saqme exeba mTavrobis 520-

e dadgenilebas, romliTac saxelmwifom sayovelTao jandacvis

programaSi CarTuli klinikebisTvis tarifebi gaaTanabra.

klinikebi jandacvis saministros mier dadgenil fasebs ar eT-

anxmebian da saswrafo wesiT maT dakoreqtirebas moiTxoven.

gauTviTcnobierebel mkiTxvels

mokled movaxsenebT 520-e

dadgenilebis Sesaxeb, anu ra ver

daTvala jandacvis saministrom,

Semdeg 25-ma klinikam es verdaTvlili

tarifebi xelaxla rogor

amoulaga, dauTvala, aCvena, rom

rogorc 5000 larad pikasos grafikas

ver iyidis ivaniSvili (asls

Seatenian), ise 2100 larad stents

ver Caudgamen avadmyofs klinikebi

(Cinurs Seatenian). rom bunebaSi

aseTi tarifebi, ubralod, ar arsebobs!

amis Semdeg 25 klinikis xelmZRvanelebi

premier-ministrs Sexvdnen

da gaxarias auxsnes, Tu ra mohyveboda

axal regulaciebs. iyo

naxsenebi faqti, rom ekaterine

tikaraZis saCxeris saavadmyofos

mmarTvelobis periodSi Suntireba

11 aTasi Rirda, axla ministri

rom gaxda, SuntirebaSi 8500 lars

ratom sTavazobs klinikebs?! mokled,

„did Zias” daxmareba sTxoves.

magram ekaterine tikaraZes kidev

ufro „didi Zia” hyavs, romelic

gaxarias „didi Ziac” aris. amitomac

tikaraZem gadawyvita, ministri

premier-ministrze naklebi

rogor iqneboda da pirdapir, aSkara,

daufarav muqaraze gadavida

(SantaJis msuye elementebiT).

avin mogaketinebs! an piriqiT, Tu

rogorc aris! marto am teqstis

gamo amisma damwerma usityvod

uari unda Tqvas sakuTar uflebamosilebaze.

iuristi mainc ar

gyavT saministroSi, rom gamoqveynebamde

teqsti waakiTxoT?! rodis

iyo, jandacvis saministro rames

iZiebdes? es prokuraturisa da samarTaldamcveli

struqturebis

prerogativaa. gamoiZiebs ki ara,

unda eweros _ Seiswavlis. anda ra

analizzea saubari? sad SeiswavleT

41 000 SemTxveva, waikiTxeT

mainc? anda romeli 41 000 gardacvalebis

faqti _ es cifri

saidan moitaneT?!

„qronika+”-ma amoiRo saqarTvelos

statistikis erovnuli samsaxuris

gardacvlilTa ricxovnoba

regionebisa da TviTmmarTveli er-

Teulebis mixedviT da daadgina,

rom saqarTveloSi 2018 wels gardacvlilTa

saerTo ricxovnobaa

aris 46 524. anu ra gamodis: rom

aqedan mxolod 5 524 gardaicvala

Tavisi mizeziT, danarCeni yvela

pacienti iyo?!

jandacvis saministro! kiTxva

maqvs, _ ar grcxveniaT?! rogorc

es cifrebia Sedgenili, ise 520-e

dadgenilebis tarifebia _ daTvlili.

vin daiTvala tarifebi?

rogorc „qronika+”-isTvis gaxda

cnobili, jandacvis saministrom

aRniSnuli daTvla finansistebs

miando, romelTac medicinasTan

iseTive kavSiri aqvT, rogorc

_ TermobirTvul fizikasTan.

magaliTad, eqspert roman lomiZis

sityvebs Tu daveyrdnobiT, peismeikeris-kardiostimulatoris

implantaciis

fasi ki aris mocemuli,

magram am peismeikers aucileblad

sWirdeba ori eleqtrodi,

TiTo 1000 dolaris Rirebulebis,

romelic gamotovebulia. mTel

msoflioSi dRes pacientebs wamliani

stenti uyendebaT da ara

metalis, rogoric 90-ian wlebSi

keTdeboda! kardioqirurgiuli

operaciis marto saxarj masalas

sWirdeba 11 aTasi lari (minimum)

da saxelmwifo amaSi 12 aTas lars

ixdis! e. i. pacients arc damatebi-

Ti kvleva sWirdeba, arc wamali,

arc eqoskopia, arc anesTezia, saavadmyofoSi

ar unda iwves da arc

eqims unda gadauxado xelfasi.

klinikis mogebaze xom saerTod

laparakic zedmetia!

„qronika+~ TemasTan dakavSire-

biT klinikebis xelmZRvanelebs

daukavSirda

ra gamoZiebas iwyebs ekaterine

tikaraZe da saidan moitana

41 000 gardacvlili pacienti?

zaza sinauriZe _ PINEO-s

samedicino direqtori:

_ operacia teqnikuri manipulaciaa,

magram am teqnikur manipulacias

xelsawyoebi sWirdeba. Tu Sen

ar gaqvs Sesabamisi xelsawyo da Sesabamisi

pirobebi, rac ar unda kargi

operatori da eqimi iyo, gamoricxulia,

carieli xelebiT

xarisxianad umkurnalo. Sesabamisad,

imisTvis, rom iyo aRWurvili,

gWirdeba amis SeZena. da Tu fasi

gaginaxevres, xarisxiani instrumentebisa

da xelsawyoebis SeZenas

ver moaxerxeb.

_ vin daiTvala es tarifebi?

_ martiv magaliTs getyviT:

rodesac avadmyofi reanimaciaSia,

udidesi mniSvneloba aqvs antibiotikoTerapias.

am dros antibiotiki

unda iyos, rac SeiZleba ma-

Ralefeqtiani, rom male moxsna,

miCveva rom ar gamoiwvios. es bolo

Taobis antibiotikebia, romelTa

erTi flakonis Rirebuleba 100

laria. pacients SeiZleba, 4-6 flakoni

aseTi antibiotiki dasWirdes,

magram marto es xom ar aris?!

520-e dadgenilebaSi moyvanili

ganfaseba absoluturi absurdi da

simaxinjea!

_ vin aris am dadgenilebis av-

tori?

_ warmodgena ar maqvs, magram

vinc ar unda iyos, Sors dgas medicinisgan.

me is eqimi var da Cemnairi

kidev bevria, vinc 90-iani

wlebi gamoiara. gazi ar iyo, Suqi

ar iyo da mSobiaris patronebs

vabarebdiT cota SeSas, sakerav

masalas, Spricebs da a. S. aq Tu

undaT dabruneba, problema ar

aris.

_ „dabruneba undaT”, ras niS-

navs, iqiTken mivdivarT?

_ aSkarad! premier-ministrs

Sexvedraze vuTxari, rom me, rogorc

pacients, ar maZlev saSualebas,

kargi stenti Cavidga da fuli

davamato. anu roca vici, rom nagavi

unda Camidga, imitom rom saxelmwifo

mets ar ixdis da Tanac

ar maZlev saSualebas, davamato da

kargi stentis fuli gadavixado,

ager, TurqeTi aqvea. 200 milioni

dolari gadis yovel wels qarTveli

pacientebis samkurnalod. es

200 000 gaxdeba 400 000! gavamdidrebT,

magaliTad, aCibadenis klinikas

da ara saqarTvelos samedicino

sistemas. ratom miSli xels

fulis gadaxdaSi, rodesac kargi

palata minda da ar minda xuTkaciani?!

amerikaSi xSirad miwevs

muSaoba. iq sadazRvevo rom gixdis

Tanxas, pacients ufleba aqvs, air-

Cios dawyebuli meniudan, palatiT

da a. S. damTavrebuli. Tu ramis

damateba unda, amatebs da trampi

ar gamodis da ar yviris, ratom axdevineb

fulso. magram, ara! _ Cven

mowinave qveyana varT idiotobaSi.

520-e dadgenilebis gadaxedvis

momxrea jandacvis saministros

samedicino regulirebis saagen-

tos Tavmjdomaris yofili moad-

gile, jandacvis eqsperti _ vano

focxveraSvili. „qronika+”-sTan

igi calsaxad acxadebs, rom jandacvis

sistema am gziT kolaf-

sisken midis:

_ am regulirebiT, sul rom

Sevsebuli gqondes klinika, mainc

ar hyofnis arc ganviTarebaze, arc

xarisxiani medikamentebis SeZenasa

da a. S. samedicino dawesebulebebi

iZulebulebi gaxdebian, iaffasian

momsaxurebaze gadavidnen. am

dros, igive kardioqirurgia teqnologiuri

dargia da masalebi

yvela xarisxiani unda iyos. am standartebis

gamo klinikebis umravlesobas

gadadebuli aqvs operaciebi.

Tu araferi Seicvala, perspeqtivaSi

es am sferos daRupvaa.

transnacionaluri kompaniebi saqarTvelos

bazridan gadian. es imas

niSnavs, rom arc erTi _ arc msxvili,

arc wvrili investori gzac

rom aerios, saqarTvelosken ar Semoixedavs.

verc erTi klinika ver

iyidis ZviradRirebul xarisxian

masalas, preparats, wamals. jandacvis

eqspertebi sxedan da cdiloben,

fasebis regulireba moaxdinon,

magram mainc eqcevian Car-

CoebSi, _ amosaval wertilad aiRon

is, rom maRali donis servisebi

2 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


saministro prokuratura xdeba!

xelmisawvdomi aRar iqneba.

_ am tarifebis daregulireba

rogor warmogidgeniaT?

_ ori stentis Cayenebis axali

tarifi 2100 lariT ganisazRvra.

es gamoricxulia xarisxiani wamliani

stentisTvis da klinikebi Cinur

an indur wamlian stentebze gadavlen.

amaTi fasi 350 laridan iwyeba.

nuTu, saministroSi ver moxerxda

efeqtiani kontrolis meqanizmis

Seqmna, Sesabamisad gadaxarjva,

sokoebiviT momravlebuli

klinikebi da amiT gamowveuli araprofesionalizmi

rom aRmoefxvra?!

anda es gamosavali vin moifiqra?

_ biujetis Semcireba eqimebis

xelfassa da mkurnalobis xarisxze

aisaxeba. ganviTarebis magivrad

isedac moryeul sistemas angreven.

„qronika+~-s esaubreba „pacientTa

da momxmarebelTa uflebebis

dacvis asociaciis” Tavmj-

domare _ nana sanaia:

_ Seqmnili viTarebis fonze araerT

pacients mouwevs sayovel-

Tao jandacvis sistemidan gasvla,

radgan klinikebi elementarulad

ver moemsaxurebian maT. jandacvis

saministro dRes imaze saubrobs,

rom avadmyofs danaxarjebs SevumcirebTo.

imaze ki ar fiqroben,

rom es reforma, pirvel rigSi, pacientebis

jibes daartyams.

_ ucnauria, dRes „pacientTa

uflebebis dacva” eqims rom

icavs?

_ SeSinebuli da daCagruli eqimi

pacients xarisxianad ver umkurnalebs.

saministro acxadebs, rom

Cven pacientebze vzrunavTo! rogor,

rodesac yvelanair gzas uketaven

xarisxiani momsaxurebis misaRebad.

_ meTanxmebiT, rom Zalian bev-

ri klinikaa gaxsnili?

_ ki batono, klinika imaze metia,

vidre saWiroa, magram fasebi

ra SuaSia? aq sxva tipis regulaciebi

unda momxdariyo.

eqspertebisa da arasamTavroboebis

garda, protestis kidev

ufro didi talRaa agorebuli

eqimebis momaval TaobaSi.

„qronika+~ gTavazobT axal-

gazrda eqimebis, rezidentebis,

studentebis gancxadebas:

„Cven warmovadgenT axalgazrda

eqimebs, rezidentebsa da sxvadasxva

samedicino universitetis studentebs.

migvaCnia, rom Cveni mosazrebis

dafiqsireba, jandacvis

sistemaSi mimdinare cvlilebebTan

dakavSirebiT, sasicocxlod

mniSvnelovania rogorc qveynis momavlisTvis,

aseve jandacvis sistemis

ganviTarebisTvis. sakiTxi exeba

saqarTvelos mTavrobis 520-e

dadgenilebis safuZvelze calkeuli

samedicino servisebis tarifikaciis

cvlilebas.

Seusabamod da aragonivrulad

migvaCnia saqarTvelos mTavrobis

520-e dadgenileba, romelic ara-

Tu aumjobesebs, aramed safrTxis

qveS ayenebs pacientebis sicocxlesa

da janmrTelobas, radgan

saministros mier mowodebuli ganfaseba

SemTxvevaTa umetesobaSi ar

faravs saerTaSoriso standartiT

uzrunvelyofili CarevisTvis

aucilebel xarjebs.

regulacia udides zians gvayenebs

Cvenc, axalgazrda eqimebs,

Semdegi mizezebis gamo:

òperacia teqnikuri manipulaciaa, magram am teqnikur manipulacias

xelsawyoebi sWirdeba. Tu Sen ar gaqvs Sesabamisi xelsawyo da Sesabamisi

pirobebi, rac ar unda kargi operatori da eqimi iyo, gamoricxulia,

carieli xelebiT xarisxianad umkurnalo. Sesabamisad, imisTvis, rom iyo

aRWurvili, gWirdeba amis SeZena. da Tu fasi gaginaxevres, xarisxiani

instrumentebisa da xelsawyoebis SeZenas ver moaxerxeb~

Tu hospitlebs mouwevT mocemuli

tarifebiT muSaoba, isini ve-

Rar SeZleben samedicino sferos

ganviTarebas da siaxleebis Semotanas.

mogexsenebaT, medicina mudmivad

ganviTarebadi dargia da Tu

ar gveqneba saSualeba, hospitleb-

Si Tanamedrove medicinis Sesabamisi

gamocdileba SeviZinoT, Cveni

Teoriuli codna ver mova TanxvedraSi

praqtikul nawilTan. sa-

Tanado praqtikuli swavlebisa Tu

saqmianobis gareSe ki ver CamovyalibdebiT

profesional eqimebad

òri stentis Cayenebis axali tarifi 2100

lariT ganisazRvra. es gamoricxulia

xarisxiani wamliani stentisTvis da klinikebi

Cinur an indur wamlian stentebze gadavlen.

amaTi fasi 350 laridan iwyeba. nuTu,

saministroSi ver moxerxda efeqtiani

kontrolis meqanizmis Seqmna, Sesabamisad

gadaxarjva, sokoebiviT momravlebuli

klinikebi da amiT gamowveuli

araprofesionalizmi rom aRmoefxvra?! anda

es gamosavali vin moifiqra? - biujetis

Semcireba eqimebis xelfassa da mkurnalobis

xarisxze aisaxeba. ganviTarebis magivrad

isedac moryeul sistemas angreven~

da, faqtobrivad, vkargavT Sesa-

Zleblobas, fexi avuwyoT globalur

gamowvevebs.

dadgenilebis gamo hospitlebs

xarjis Semcireba uxdebaT, ramac

ukve gamoiwvia gamocdili kadrebis

samsaxuridan ganTavisufleba.

Tu samuSao adgilebis Semcireba

gagrZeldeba, axalgazrda eqimebi

da studentebi veRar movaxerxebT

gamocdili mentorebisgan swavlas

an dasaqmebas klinikebSi, ris Sedegadac

Cven ver SevZlebT kvalifikaciis

amaRlebasa da specialistebad

Camoyalibebas.

miuxedavad saqarTvelos socialur-ekonomikuri

mdgomareobisa,

umaRlesi ganaTlebis sistemis

arsebuli standarti saSualebas

gvaZlevda, ganviTarebuli

qveynebis Sesabamis profesionalebad

SevmdgariyaviT. sul ramdenime

Tvis win qarTuli umaRlesi saswavleblebis

nawili gawevrianda

umaRlesi ganaTlebis xarisxis ganviTarebis

damoukidebeli saagentos

(EQAR-The European Quality Assurance

Register for Higher Education) reestrSi,

ramac kidev erTxel gausva

xazi imas, rom Cveni ganaTleba

utoldeba evropul standarts da

metad gagvixsna gza ganviTarebuli

qveynebisken. am procesis uwyvetoba

imeds gvaZlevda, rom rogorc

qveynis SigniT, ise qveynis gareT

miRebuli ganaTlebiT, Sev-

ZlebdiT momavalSi monawileoba

migveRo qarTuli jandacvis sistemis

gaumjobesebasa da arsebuli

problemebis aRmofxvraSi.

Tumca saministros mxridan gamoqveynebul

werilSi, romelic

pasuxobda klinikebis Ria werils,

moyvanilia arasakmarisad argumentirebuli

faqtebi da statistikebi.

kidev erTxel xazs vusvamT, rom

jandacvis saministro unda emsaxurebodes

sazogadoebas da aseve

samedicino sferos, zemoaRniSnuli

weriliT ki zrdis agresias

eqimebis mimarT, rac eqimebs uqmnis

safrTxis Semcvel samuSao

garemos. Sedegad, Cven viRebT momravlebul

raodenobas fizikuri

da sityvieri Seuracxyofisa.

aseve Tu zedmiwevniT ar Catarebula

gamoZieba gardacvlili

pacientebis SemTxvevebze, ratom

aqveynebs jandacvis saministro msgavs

daskvnas kvalificiur daxmarebaze

da xarisxian movlaze?

ratom afasebs eqimebis 24-saaTian

morigeobebsa da Tavdauzogav

Sromas mxolod sikvdilianobis

maCvenebliT da ara gadarCenili

pacientebis raodenobiT?!

es aris mxolod varaudi da

mosaxleobaSi eWvis gazrdas emsaxureba

samedicino sferos warmomadgenlebis

arakvalificiurobaze,

rac Cveni uflebebis Selaxvad

da sruliad samedicino sferos

diskreditaciad migvaCnia, rasac

Sedegad SeiZleba moyves Semdegi:

sazogadoebaSi iseTi azris

Camoyalibeba, rom eqimebi arian arakompetenturebi,

rac ganapirobebs

maT mimarT ndobis dakargvas.

aRniSnulis Sedegad, dazaraldebian

pacientebic, radgan eqimebis

mimarT undobloba gazrdis TviTmkurnalobis

SemTxvevebs, ramac

SesaZloa, letaluri Sedegic ki

gamoiRos;

saqarTvelodan axalgazrda

eqimebisa da samedicino fakultetis

studentebis gadineba, qveyneb-

Si sadac moaxerxeben dasaqmebas,

ganviTarebasa da iqnebian dafasebulni,

usafrTxo samuSao garemo-

Si.

zemoaRniSnuli faqtebidan gamomdinare,

moviTxovT:

dauyovnebliv SeCerdes saqarTvelos

mTavrobis 520-e dadgenileba

manam, sanam ar aRmoifxvreba mas-

Si arsebuli yvela xarvezi, dargobriv

asociaciebTan erToblivi

muSaobiT. es regulacia arsebul

da momaval eqimebs xels gviSlis

Cveni saqmianobis Rirseulad SesrulebaSi.

jandacvis saministrom gagvces

argumentirebuli da faqtebiT dadasturebuli

pasuxi, Tu ras efuZneba

zemoaRniSnuli braldebebi

samedicino sazogadoebis mimarT.

Tu arsebobs sakmarisi mtkicebulebebi,

moaxdinos Sesabamisi

reagireba, xolo mtkicebulebebiT

daudastureblobis SemTxveva-

Si moixados sajaro bodiSi!” _ weria

axalgazrda eqimebisa da studenti-medikosebis

mimarTvaSi.

erTi trampi Sewyvets evropis

lanZRvas da meore ekaterine

tikaraZe moixdis bodiSs! ar izams

amas, Samanmac rom Seulocos.

klinikis xelmZRvanelebis premierTan

Sexvedris Semdeg Seiqmna

samuSao jgufi, romlis Semadgenlobasac

„qronika+” aqveynebs. idos

mainc, Tu mere ambebi aiwia da am

CamonaTvalma eka tikaraZis Sav sia-

Si gadainacvla. yvelaferi imazea

damokidebuli, „didi Zia” vis dau-

Wers mxars:

gela kvaracxelia _ klinika

„helsikori”, soso abulaZe _

klinika „Ria guli”, oTar yuraS-

vili _ „klinika TIM”, daviT miq-

elTaZe _ klinika „Ria guli”, guga

ramiSvili _ klinika „niu hospi-

talsi”, Salva rcxilaZe _ „xeCi-

naSvilis sax. sauniversiteto

klinika”, vaxo kaloiani _ „niu

hospitalsi”, zviad baxutaSvili _

klinika „CafiZis gulis centri”,

aleko aladaSvili _ klinika „CafiZis

gulis centri”, giorgi pa-

piaSvili _ „jo enis samedicino

centri”.

SevardnaZis droindeli jandacvis

ministris mfrinavi fraziT

minda davasrulo: „me ar mWirdeba

maRalkvalificiuri eqimi, romelic

apendeqtomiaSi 100 lars momTxovs,

mirCevnia dabalkvalificiuri,

romelic 1.5 larad gaakeTebs

igive operacias”.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

3


ìvaniSvili kidev ufro daamZimebs

politikuri gamocdileba gva-

nene injgia

swavlis, rom nebismier xelisu-

armaz 591 71 39 98 flebas uWirs meore vadis Semdeg

Zalauflebis SenarCuneba. gamonaklisi

arc „qarTuli ocneba” da misi lideri biZina ivaniS-

vili aRmoCnda. vxedavT, rom mmarTveli Zala xelisuflebas

ebRauWeba da mis SesanarCuneblad yvelanair legalur Tu

aralegalur xerxs iyenebs. aSkaraa, rom xelisufleba ar

apirebs daTmobas da 2020 wels proporciuli saarCevno siste-

miT arCevnebis Catarebas.

ra politikuri fasi daujdeba

ivaniSvilsa da mis gunds sa-

konstitucio cvlilebebis Cag-

deba? ra resursebi aqvs am

mocemulobaSi opozicias? da ra

rols TamaSobs am procesebSi ax-

algazrdebis CarTuloba?

am da sxva mniSvnelovan Teme-

bze „qronika+~ „demokratiuli

auditis centris” xelmZRvanel

armaz axvledians esaubra:

_ ra politikuri mocemulo-

ba miiRo „qarTulma ocnebam” da

opoziciurma speqtrma sakonsti-

tucio cvlilebebis Cagdebis

Semdeg?

_ „qarTulma ocnebam” gadadga

briyvuli nabiji da Sedegad miiRo

is, rom mcire ndoba, rac, SesaZloa,

manamde hqonda sazogadoebaSi,

praqtikulad, srulad dakarga

da politikur CixSi aRmoCnda,

saidanac gamosavali oria:

„qarTuli ocnebis” mier am uzarmazari

politikuri Secdomis

droulad gamosworeba an misi vadaze

adre wasvla xelisuflebidan.

_ am mocemulobaSi ramdenad

realuria is, rom „qarTulma oc-

nebam” xelisufleba vadaze adre

datovos?

_ jerjerobiT, gasaRebi mainc

„ocnebis” xelSia. maszea damokidebuli,

ganimuxteba Tu ara

politikuri krizisi an ramdenad

damZimdeba is! es damokidebulia

„qarTuli ocnebis” nebaze, ufro

zustad rom vTqvaT, ivaniSvilis

nebaze. Cven vxedavT, rom mas ar

aqvs araviTari survili arc ganmuxtvis,

arc oponentebTan da sazogadoebasTan

dialogis. axla

erTaderTi, rac ivaniSvilsa da

mis „ocnebas” amoZravebs, aris is,

rom nebismieri manqanebiT Seinar-

Cunos da gaixangrZlivos ZalauflebaSi

yofna.

_ opozicia politikur per-

formansebs aqtiurad iyenebs da

metic, maT protestis axal formas,

„mainc dagaboqlomebT”, mima-

rTes. Tqveni gadmosaxedidan, am

politikur mocemulobaSi ramde-

nad qmediTia opoziciis es

nabijebi?

_ protestis vizualuri mxare

SeiZleba gansxvavebuli iyos da

Sesabamisad, SesaZloa, _ Sefasebebic

sxvadasxvagvari. mTavari is

aris, rom opoziciis Zalian didi

speqtri arsebiTad gaerTianda imisTvis,

rom „qarTul ocnebas”

fundamenturi konstituciuri

uflebis, anu arCevanis Tavisufal,

met-naklebad, demokratiul

garemoSi gakeTebis uflebis dabruneba

mosTxovos. Sesabamisad, yvela

sxva niuansi Tu forma, Cemi

azriT, meorexarisxovania. mTavaria,

opoziciis erTiani suliskveTeba

da ganwyoba, rac, vfiqrob, sakmarisad

kargad asaxavs Cveni sazogadoebis

didi nawilis ganwyobas

da ar utovebs gzas „qarTul

ocnebas”, rom, adre Tu gvian, ar

iqonios am moTxovnebebze reagireba.

„ocneba”, jerjerobiT, ar

imCnevs, magram mas sxva gza ar

darCeba, is iZulebuli gaxdeba,

rom opoziciis, sazogadoebis

sul ufro da ufro mzardi zewolisa

da saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis

mowodebebis fonze

daixios ukan.

_ mas Semdeg, rac „qarTulma

ocnebam” sakonstitucio cvli-

lebebi Caagdo, opozicia masSta-

bur aqciebs aanonsebda, Tumca

Semdeg xelisufleba ukve ironiulad

aRniSnavda, rom 22-ma par-

tiam mxolod 5 000 adamiani gamo-

iyvana. ratom ar mohyva masStaburi

protesti „qarTuli ocnebis”

morig Seusrulebel dapire-

bas?

_ xelisufleba mwared cdeba,

roca fiqrobs, rom sazogadoeba

saTanadod ar aprotestebs mis

Tavxedobas. cdeba imitom, rom is

ver iazrebs umTavress, rom sazogadoebis

didma nawilma, miuxedavad

imisa, axerxebs Tu ara es

xalxi saprotesto aqciebze gamosvlas,

TavisTvis gadawyvita,

uari uTxras „ocnebis” warumatebel

eqsperiments. rogorc Cans, sazogadoebis

es nawili arCevnebis

dRes elodeba. darwmunebuli var,

asiaTasobiT adamiani, vinc arCevnebis

dRes saarCevno ubnebze miva,

„ocnebis” beds gadawyvets da araTu

wertils dausvams am uazro,

Tavxedur, ukiduresad saSiS eqsperiments,

aramed, faqtobrivad,

Tavisi gadawyvetilebiT safuZvels

Cauyris im mocemulobas, rom

saqarTveloSi aRarasdros ganmeordes

9+8 SecdomebiT savse tragikuli

warsuli.

_ xelisuflebis warmomadgen-

lebi swored amas amboben, rom

sazogadoeba saarCevno yuTTan

gaakeTebs arCevans, misive TqmiT,

arCevnebs ara saarCevno sistema,

aramed xalxis ndoba igebs da ma-

galiTad, 2012 wels asaxeleben,

roca maT arsebuli saarCevno

sistemiT daamarcxes „qarTuli

ocneba”.

_ „qarTul ocnebas”, jer kidev,

aqvs imis imedi, rom ivaniSvilis

uzarmazari fuladi resursiT,

administraciuli manqaniT, yvelafris

mobilizebiT, rasac ki Seu-

Zlia Tavi mouyaros, moaxerxebs

sazogadoebis daSinebas, gadmobirebas

da kvlav SeZlebs umravlesobaSi

darCenas. magram „qarTuli

ocneba” ver acnobierebs, rom axla

ar aris arc 2013 an 2014, Tundac

2016 weli. 2019-2020 weli es

is periodia, roca adamianebis didi

nawili Tavad darwmunda imaSi,

rom „qarTul ocnebasTan” erTad

cxovrebis gagrZeleba fuW ocnebas

niSnavs. erTaderTi gamosavali

„ocnebisTvis” axla is aris,

rom moaxerxos da ar gadaWras

sakuTari TavisTvis yvela gza,

romelic mas SesaZleblobas miscemda,

politikur sivrceSi, arCevnebis

Semdeg darCeneliyo opoziciur

speqtrSi. Tu am gzasac

moiWris „ocneba”, arCevnebis Semdeg

is, rogorc politikuri Zala,

gaqreba da araerTi lideri aRmoCndeba

sabraldebo skamze.

_ ra alternatiuli gza aqvs

am mocemulobaSi „qarTul oc-

nebas”?

_ „ocnebas” erTaderTi gamosavali

aqvs _ gaiTvaliswinos

xalxis moTxovna, rom arCevnebi

Catardes proporciuli wesiT da

winasaarCevno garemo iyos gacilebiT

ukeTesi, vidre es yofila

aqamde _ „ocnebisa” Tu sxva xelisuflebis

mmarTvelobis dros.

jerjerobiT, ivaniSvili yurad ar

iRebs am Txovnas. rogorc Cans,

mas jer kidev aqvs imis imedi, rom

dros gaiyvans da kvlav moparavs

arCevans xalxs. is fiqrobs, rom

armaz axvlediani:

`qarTuli ocneba~

farTomasStabiani

samoqalaqo

dapirispirebisTvis

emzadeba~

daSinebiT, motyuebiT, moqrTamviT

moaxerxebs imas, rom rogor-

Rac gaixangrZlivos Zalaufleba-

Si yofna da SeinarCunos miTvisebuli

qoneba.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom „ocne-

ba” finansur da administraciul

resurss gamoiyenebs. amavdroulad,

is ukve cdilobs opozici-

is diskreditacias, rom yvela,

vinc quCaSi dgas, „nacionalia” da

maTi mizani Zaladobrivi gziT xe-

lisuflebis damxobaa. ramdenad

gaWris es mesiji „ocnebis” sasa-

rgeblod?

_ realoba aseTia: „ocneba” yvelanairad

cdilobs, „nacionaluri

moZraoba” kvlavac warmoaCinos

safrTxobelad, daafrTxos is

xalxi, vinc „nacionaluri moZraobis”

mowodebebis gamo ki ar gamodis

gasaprotesteblad, aramed

sakuTari sindisisa da survileb-

`xelisufleba mwared cdeba, roca fiqrobs,

rom sazogadoeba saTanadod ar aprotestebs

mis Tavxedobas. cdeba imitom, rom is ver

iazrebs umTavress, rom sazogadoebis didma

nawilma, miuxedavad imisa, axerxebs Tu ara es

xalxi saprotesto aqciebze gamosvlas,

TavisTvis gadawyvita, uari uTxras òcnebis~

warumatebel eqsperiments. rogorc Cans,

sazogadoebis es nawili arCevnebis dRes

elodeba. darwmunebuli var, asiaTasobiT

adamiani, vinc arCevnebis dRes saarCevno

ubnebze miva, òcnebis~ beds gadawyvets da

araTu wertils dausvams am uazro, Tavxedur,

ukiduresad saSiS eqsperiments, aramed,

faqtobrivad, Tavisi gadawyvetilebiT

safuZvels Cauyris im mocemulobas, rom

saqarTveloSi aRarasdros ganmeordes 9+8

SecdomebiT savse tragikuli warsuli~

is Sesabamisad dgams am nabijs. meore

mxriv, opoziciurma politikurma

speqtrma, sazogadoebam,

unda gaiazros, rom „ocnebis” am

satyuaras ar unda wamoegos da

moaxerxos is, rom „nacionaluri

moZraoba” gamoiyenos, rogorc

erT-erTi politikuri Zala, romelic

sxvebTan erTad mzad aris

„ocnebis” xelisuflebidan gasastumreblad.

manamde unda moxerxdes

normaluri saarCevno sistemis

Seqmna, konkurentul garemo-

Si arCevnebis Catareba. ukve amis

Semdeg mzad unda viyoT, rom

sazogadoeba SeZlebs arCevanis

gakeTebas da yvela politikur

Zalas miuCens Tavis adgils.

_ „mTavari arxis” damfuZnebe-

li nika gvaramia, feiqbuqpostis

gamo, sadac is xelisuflebis

damxobaze saubrobs, dakiTxvaze

daibares. gvaramias gancxadeba

gaaziara mixeil saakaSvilma. ms-

gavsi qmedebebi ramdenad uSlis

xels Tundac sazogadoebis kon-

solidacias?

_ rac ar unda autaneli iyos

dRes politikuri garemo da „ocnebis”

danaSaulebrivi eqsperimenti,

vfiqrob, rom yvela SemTxveva-

Si qveynis „ocnebidan” ganTavisuflebis

erTaderTi gza arCevnebia.

sxva gzas me, ubralod, ver

vxedav. Tu „ocneba” sabolood

uars ityvis arCevnebze (CemTvis

„ocnebis” gegmiT arCevnebis Catareba,

faqtobrivad arCevnebis

gauqmebas niSnavs), aseT SemTxveva-

Si, ra Tqma unda, sazogadoebas,

partiebs sruli ufleba aqvT, rom

Sesabamisad imoqmedon kvlav mSvidobiani,

samarTlebrivi gziT. xelisuflebis

piketirebiT, boikotirebiT,

farTomasStabiani protestiT

aiZulos xelisufleba

CamoSordes marTvas. vfiqrob,

rom am scenaris gamoricxva ar SeiZleba.

rogorc giTxariT, gasaRebi

„ocnebis” xelSia, Tu is yvela

kars Carazavs, maSin aRmoCndeba,

rom is Tavad iqneba izolirebuli

sazogadoebisgan. arc saqar-

TveloSi da arc sazRvargareT

aRaravis gaukvirdeba xalxis bunebrivi,

samarTliani reaqcia aseT

uzurpaciaze.

_ Tu sazogadoebas „qarTuli

ocnebis” mimarT ndoba dakarguli

aqvs, is Tavis damokidebulebas

saarCevno ubnebTan daafiq-

4 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


viTarebas da met Secdomas dauSvebs~

sirebs, aqedan gamomdinare, ratom

warmoadgens arsebiT prob-

lemas saarCevno sistema?

_ araerTi savalalo magaliTi

gvaqvs arCevnebSi „qarTuli ocnebis”

qcevisa, maT Soris, gasul saparlamento

arCevnebze, 2016 wels.

maSinac vambobdi da axlac gavimeoreb,

rom es ar iyo arCevnebi,

ivaniSvilma sazogadoebas ar misca

arCevanis gakeTebis saSualeba.

man srulad gamoiyena Zaladobrivi

sistema, administraciuli

da finansuri resursi. maSin vambobdi,

rom ivaniSvils Tu es gauvidoda,

2020 wlis arCevnebi gacilebiT

dramatuli iqneboda, es

prognozi gamarTlda. axla ki vambob,

rom am viTarebaSi, rac dRes

gvaqvs, ivaniSvili yvelafers gaakeTebs,

rom arCevnebi da saxelmwifo

miitacos. sulac ar var

darwmunebuli, rom misi mzakvruli

gegmis mixedviT Tu wavida

saqme, maSin Cveni sazogadoebis

nawils imis SesaZlebloba eqneba,

rom arCevani gaakeTos! swored

amitom iTxovs opozicia daJinebiT,

rom proporciuli arCevnebi

miiRon, am SemTxvevaSi, „germanuli

modeli”, radgan aseT pirobeb-

Si ivaniSvils manipulirebis Sesa-

Zlebloba umcirdeba. dRevandel

viTarebaSi ki saarCevno Zaladobis,

manipulirebis, xmebis mitacebis

Sansi mas Zalian didi aqvs.

_ ivaniSvilma ramdenad sworad

gaTvala riskebi sakonsti-

tucio cvlilebebis CagdebasTan

dakavSirebiT da ra triukebs

unda velodoT misgan?

_ ivaniSvili Taviseburad cdilobs

am riskebis gaTvlas, magram

is ver iTvaliswinebs cxovrebisa

da politikis kanonzomierebas. es

kanonzomiereba met-naklebad

normalur adamiansa da politikoss

karnaxobs, rom erTi xelisufleba

sxva xelisuflebiT unda

Canacvldes. ivaniSvils es ver

warmoudgenia, is gamoricxavs

aseT SesaZleblobas. Sesabamisad,

misi dramatuli Secdomac es aris.

amitom, aseTi dabinduli gonebis

pirobebSi, praqtikulad, gamovricxav

imas, rom rame gonivruli

da swori nabiji gadadgas

ivaniSvilma. is kidev ufro daam-

Zimebs viTarebas da met Secdomas

dauSvebs. ar gamovricxav tragikul

Secdomebsac. axla mTavaria,

rom ivaniSvilisa da „ocnebis”

anomaliuri qmedebebis fonze

opoziciam Secdomebi ar dauSvas

da ivaniSvilis Savrazmelebs ar

misces imis SesaZlebloba, rom es

saTavisod gamoiyenon.

_ ra garantiaa imisa, rom

opoziciac ar dauSvebs anomali-

ur Secdomebs? ra berketebi

uWiravT maT dRes xelSi?

_ opoziciis umTavresi resursi

aris is, rom misi moTxovna samarTliania.

miuxedavad imisa, ramdeni

adamiani gamodis aqciaze, sazogadoebis

didi nawili, pirdapir

Tu iribad, mxars uWers opozicias

am moTxovnaSi, esec opoziciis

mTavari berketia. opoziciis

umTavresi resursia isic,

rom xelisufleba gzaabneuli, demoralizebuli

da sazogadoebisgan

gaucxoebulia. xelisuflebam

ar daitova ukan dasaxevi gza.

saerTaSoriso Tanamegobroba axla

gacilebiT adekvaturad afasebs

ivaniSvilis warumatebeli eqsperimentis

arss da xvdeba, rom

politikuri cvlilebebis gareSe

SeiZleba saqarTvelo dakargon,

rogorc strategiuli partniori.

esec erT-erTi resursia opoziciis.

„ocneba” ver xvdeba, rom

amomrCevelma, am sami aTwleulis

ganmavlobaSi, bevri mware gakveTili

ixila da rogorc Cans, sabolood

darwmunda, rom ar unda

SearCinos arc erT xelisuflebas

demokratiis gauqmeba.

_ kvlevebi aCvenebs, rom saz-

ogadoebis didi nawili ar endo-

ba arsebul politikur speqtrs,

am SemTvevaSi sad xedavT prob-

lemas?

_ umTavresi problema im warmoudgenlad

mankier praqtikaSia,

romelic saqarTveloSi bolo

aTwleulebis ganmavlobaSi Camoyalibda

da romlis arsic is aris,

rom politikuri Zala sanam opoziciaSia,

sazogadoebas hpirdeba

demokratiul gardaqmnebs, samarTlianobas,

ekonomikur winsvlas.

xelisuflebaSi mosvlisTanave

ki es Zalebi ara ubralod iviwyeben

am dapirebebs, aramed warsulis

yvelaze ufro mZime Secdomebs

imeoreben da cdiloben,

rom yvelanairi manqanebiT moaxerxon

sazogadoebis motyueba da

rogorme gaixangrZlivon ZalauflebaSi

yofna. es aris umTavresi

gakveTili, romelic Cvenma sazogadebam

gaiTavisa. miuxedavad

imisa, rom sazogadoebis sakmaod

didi nawilis damokidebuleba,

rogorc xelisuflebisadmi, aseve

opoziciisadmi, aris arcTu ise

pozitiuri, sazogadoeba acnobierebs,

rom dRes „ocnebis” mier

agizgizebuli Zalian saSiSi xan-

Zari unda Caqres. amis Semdeg unda

moxerxdes is, rom arc erT politikur

Zalas ar hqondes Zalauflebis

mitacebis SesaZlebloba,

Sesabamisad, vfiqrob, rom erTaderTi

gza aris koaliciuri mTavroba.

es ganapirobebs imas, rom

TandaTan aRdgeba ndoba politikosebisa

da politikis mimarT da

gacilebiT ufro konkurentul

da pluralistur garemoSi. yoveli

momdevno arCevnebi ganapirobebs

procesis gajansaRebas.

_ bolo periodSi viTareba

aqciebze sakmaod daiZaba, maT

Soris, regionebSi, xelisufleba

kontraqciebs awyobs, rasac da-

pirispireba da Sexla-Semoxla

moyva. am fonze arsebobs Tu ara

riski, rom mTavari mizani, rasac

proprociul sistemaze gadasvla

hqvia, urTierTdapirispirebaSi

Caikargos?

_ Cemi dakvirvebiT, opoziciisa

da sazogadoebis im nawilis qmedeba,

romelic aprotestebs proporciul

sistemaze gadasvlis

ìvaniSvili emzadeba momentisTvis, roca is

ganacxadebs: ra vqnaT, sazogadoebis sakmao

nawili, mizezTa gamo, aRar iziarebs

saqarTvelos dasavluri orientaciis ideas

da Cven valdebuli varT, veZeboT sxva

partniorebi~

ìvaniSvili xvdeba, rom Tu

am ukuRmarTi gziT ivlis,

is sabolood

daupirispirdeba dasavleTs.

aseT SemTxvevaSi mas vinme

dasWirdeba, vinc am

dapirispirebaSi mxars

dauWers. aseTi Zala

erTaderTia - ruseTi. ase

rom, ivaniSvili, mas unda

Tu ara es, Tavisi ugunuri

qmedebebiT da qveyanaSi

demokratiuli perspeqtivis

ganadgurebiT, faqtobrivad,

rusul orbitaze amyofebs

saqarTvelos da Crdiloel

mokavSires uxmobs~

kanonproeqtis Cagdebas, sakmarisad

koreqtulia, xolo xelisuflebis

damokidebuleba _ sruliad

araadekvaturi. xelisufleba

gakotrda da ise gaucxovda saku-

Tari xalxisgan, rom kontraqciebs

awyobs. kontraqcia aris naTeli

demonstrireba xelisuflebis

moraluri saxisa, es niSnavs, rom

xelisuflebas sxva gza ar darCa

da dromoWmuli formebiT cdilobs

gulanTebuli axalgazrdebis

protestisTvis winaaRmdegobis

gawevas. vfiqrob, „ocneba” imisTvis

emzadeba, rom es lokaluri

aqciebi saWiro momentSi saqarTvelos

dedaqalaqSi farTomasStabian

kontraqciaSi gadazardos.

aq „ocnebam” SeiZleba dramatuli

Secdoma dauSvas imitom,

rom mis mxares ar dganan gulan-

Tebuli mxardamWerebi. masTan,

umetes SemTxvevaSi, komfortis

maZiebeli adamianebi midian, _ isini,

vinc „ocnebas” „nacionalebis”

dabrunebis SiSiT an sxva mizeziT

uWeren mxars. roca naxaven, „ocneba”

mzad aris daiwyos farTomasStabiani

samoqalaqo dapirispireba

mxolod imitom, rom sakuTar

skamsaa CabRauWebuli, am

gulwrfeli mxardamWerebis mcire

nawilic CamoSordeba mas.

_ davazustoT: Tqveni fiqrobT,

rom xelisuflebis Sesanar-

Cuneblad „ocneba” samoqalaqo

dapirispirebazec ki wava?

_ faqtobrivad, „ocneba” am dapirispirebaze

ukve wavida, _ rasac

Cven axla vxedavT lokalurad

sxvadasxva regionSi, es aris samoqalaqo

dapirispirebis pirveli

niSnebi. meCveneba, rom es „ocnebis”

repeticiaa. is farTomasStabiani

dapirispirebisTvis emzadeba.

Tu dainaxa, rom sxva gza aRar

rCeba, „ocneba” organizebulad

gamoiyvans mxardamWerebs. Cven

gvaxsovs warsulSi ase darazmuli

adamianebs ramdenad mtkice

faris funqcia SeusrulebiaT

Zirgamompali xelisuflebisTvis.

maTi enTuziazmi imave wuTs qreba,

rogorc ki mSiSara xelisufleba

garbis. am momavals vuwinaswarmetyveleb

„ocnebas” mis mxardamWerebTan

erTad, Tu aq da axla,

„ocneba” nabij-nabij ar daiwyebs

sruliad samarTliani moTxovnebis

Sesrulebas, rac opoziciisa

da kritikulad ganwyobili

sazogadoebisgan modis.

_ rogorc xelisufleba am-

bobs, igi daTmobaze wasvlas ar

apirebs, metic: „amboxebuli ma-

Joritarebi” srulad maJori-

tarul sistemasa da orpalatian

parlaments iTxoven 2024 wlidan.

es xom ar ggoniaT ivaniSvilis

morigi triuki?

_ aranairi eWvi ar arsebobs,

rom yvelaferi masTan SeTanxmebiT

xdeba. imdenad alogikuria es

qmedebebi, rom vfiqrob, Cveni

saerTaSoriso partniorebi veRarc

ki xedaven rame kanonzomierebas.

maT bevri kiTxva uCndebaT,

ratom dgams ama Tu im nabijs ivaniSvili.

Cven unda gavigoT, rom

ivaniSvili yvela mimarTulebiT

qveynisTvis damazianebel politikas

atarebs _ dawyebuli aWaris

televiziis ambebiT, damTvrebuli

anakliis portiT. es aris erTi

Zalian saxifaTo scenaris nawilebi,

romlis saboloo mizanic gaxlavT

is, rom yvela am qmedebiT

ivaniSvilma daadumos oponentebi,

kritikulad moazrovne adamianebs

gadauWras yvela gza da SesaZlebloba.

ivaniSvili emzadeba momentisTvis,

roca is ganacxadebs: ra

vqnaT, sazogadoebis sakmao nawili,

mizezTa gamo, aRar iziarebs

saqarTvelos dasavluri orientaciis

ideas da Cven valdebuli

varT, veZeboT sxva partniorebi.

man es partniori didi xania, aRmoaCina,

ubralod, Sesabamis dros

eZebs, rom es gaamarTlos. es aris

yvelaze ufro dramatuli scenari,

rac ki SeiZleba ganviTardes...

Tuki opoziciam da sazogadoebam

ivaniSvils imis ufleba

miveciT, rom kvlav Tavisi mzakvruli

gegmiT gaagrZelos qveynis

marTva.

_ ivaniSvili mizanmimarTulad

emsaxureba ruseTis interesebs

Tu mas, ubralod, sxva alternativa

aRar rCeba? Tu Tavisi geg-

miT ganagrZobs moqmedebas?

_ ivaniSvili xvdeba, rom Tu am

ukuRmarTi gziT ivlis, is sabolood

daupirispirdeba dasavleTs.

aseT SemTxvevaSi mas vinme

dasWirdeba, vinc am dapirispirebaSi

mxars dauWers. aseTi Zala

erTaderTia _ ruseTi. ase rom,

ivaniSvili, mas unda Tu ara es,

Tavisi ugunuri qmedebebiT da

qveyanaSi demokratiuli perspeqtivis

ganadgurebiT, faqtobrivad,

rusul orbitaze amyofebs

saqarTvelos da Crdiloel mokav-

Sires uxmobs. ivaniSvili sul ufro

metad gaucxovdeba dasavle-

Tisgan _ aris bunebrivi procesia.

misi marTvis stili da arademokratiuli

SigTavsi ganapirobebs

imas, rom ruseTTan mokavSireobis

garda sxva gza ar rCeba. ase emar-

Teba yvela avtoritar mmarTvels

postsocialistur sivrceSi, ivaniSvilic

erT-erTi maTgania.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom mniSvnelovania

opoziciisa da sa-

zogadoebis CarTuloba, raTa

Tavidan aviciloT dramatuli

scenari. Cven vnaxeT, rom poli-

tikur procesebSi axalgazrdebi

aqtiurad CaerTnen. ra roli

aqvT maT?

_ darwmunebuli var, ivaniSvili

verafriT daadumebs gulan-

Tebul axalgazrdebs. is am Taobas

araTu ver moereva, aramed yovel

jerze, Tavisi ugunuri qmedebiT,

gazrdis mis rigebs da swored es

iqneba misi ganaCeni.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

5


ìvaniSvilis xelisufleba sul ufro

sakonstitucio cvlilebebis

nene injgia

Cagdebis Semdeg qveyanaSi axali

591 71 39 98

politikuri realoba Seiqmna.

opozicia, maT Soris, gansxvave-

buli Rirebulebebis mqone politikuri partiebi, erTiani

ZalebiT cdiloben ukve 2020 wlidan proporciul saarCevno

sistemaze gadasvlas da „qarTul ocnebas” danapirebis Ses-

rulebas sTxoven. isini sxvadasxva meTodiT cdiloben proporciuli

saarCevno sistemisTvis brZolas. erT-erTia quCis aqciebi

da politikuri performansebi, rasac xelisufleba kontraqciebs

upirispirebs. SeiZleba vTqvaT, rom qveyanaSi poli-

tikuri qaosia. erTi ram cxadia, rom opozicia ar daTmobs,

Tumca xelisuflebac ar apirebs kompromisebze wasvlas. metic:

mmarTveli Zala xan maJoritarebis gaaqtiurebiT, xan ki „ti-

tuSkebis” mobilizebiT cdilobs situaciis ganeitralebas.

xelisufleba akeTebs yvelafers,

risi gakeTebac SeuZlia, „mTa-

vari arxis” damfuZnebeli nika

gvaramia saxelmwifo usafrTxoebis

samsaxurSi feisbuqze dawer-

ili postis gamo daibares. feibuq

postSi gvaramia „uzurpatoris

damxobaze” saubrobda. gvaramias

mier gamoqveynebuli statusi gaaziara

saqarTvelos mesame prezi-

dentma mixeil saakaSvilma.

azianebs Tu ara msgavsi Sinaar-

sis mowodebebi, konkretulad,

„nacionalur moZraobas”? ras

fiqroben mTavar opoziciur Zal-

aSi nino burjanaZis moskovSi vi-

zitTan dakavSirebiT? politiku-

ri performansebis garda ra xerx-

ebs mimarTaven proporciuli saa-

rCevno sistemis dasabruneblad?


bze „qronika+~ „nacionaluri

moZraobis” wevr, deputat salome

samadaSvils esaubra:

_ rogor Seicvala „qarTuli

ocnebis” politikuri mocemuloba

mas Semdeg, rac maT sakonsti-

tucio cvlilebebi Caagdes?

_ sakonstitucio cvlilebasTan

dakavSirebiT qveyanaSi Zalian

mZime politikuri krizisi Seiqmna.

am krizisze pasuxismgebloba ivani-

Svilsa da mis gadawyvetilebas ekisreba.

ivaniSvils aRar aqvs SesaZlebloba,

demokratiuli arCevnebis

gziT SeinarCunos qveyanaSi Zalaufleba.

miuxedavad amisa, is xelisuflebisTvis

yovelTvis momgebiani

maJoritaruli sistemis

gamoyenebiT apirebs qveyanaSi Zalauflebis

SenarCunebas. sazogadoeba

amas ar miiRebs da politikuri

krizisi gagrZeldeba manam,

sanam misi ganmuxtvis gza ar

moiZebneba.

_ sakonstitucio cvlilebeb-

is Cagdebis Semdeg opozicia mas-

Stabur aqciebs aanonsebda, Tumca

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi

aqciebis msvlelobisas ironiulad

aRniSnavdnen, rom 22-ma par-

tiam mxolod 5000 adamianis gamo-

yvana SeZlo. riT aixsneba is, rom

cvlilebebis Cagdebas masStaburi

protesti ar moyva?

_ protesti sakmaod mZlavria.

Tanac ar mimaCnia gonivrulad, Tanamedrove

politikur garemoSi

quCaSi Tavebis TvliT sazogadoebrivi

azris Sefaseba. realurad,

Tanamedrove garemoSi saprotesto

muxtiT ganwyobili adamiani bevrad

meti aris, Tumca uSualod qu-

CaSi ar gamodis. magaliTad, adamianebis

garkveuli nawili protests

socialur qselSi gamoxatavs. mokled,

mxolod quCaSi gamosuli adamianebi

ar asaxaven sazogadoebis

Sexedulebas. Cven vxedavT imasac,

rom faqtobrivad, sazogadoebrivi

konsensusia, rom proporciul

saarCevno sistemaze gadasvlis kanonproeqtis

Cagdeba miuRebelia.

aseve vnaxeT Edison Research-is gamokiTxvis

Sedegebi, sadac naTlad

Cans, rom gamokiTxulTa umravlesoba

emxroba proporciul saarCevno

sistemaze gadasvlas. ase rom,

sakonstitucio cvlilebebis Cagdebaze

biZina ivaniSvils politikuri

fasis gadaxda mouwevs. es Sedegi

aisaxeba swored Semdeg arCevnebze.

_ Tqveni protestis gamoxatvis

formebiT („mainc dagaboqlom-

ebT” da parlamentis piketireba)

xelisuflebas xom ar aZlevT imis

safuZvels, rom destruqciul

Zalebad mogixsenioT da es Tavis

sasargeblod gamoiyenos Tundac

saerTaSoriso partniorebTan?

_ daboqlomeba opoziciis mxridan

xelisuflebis mimarT protestis

simboluri gamoxatulebaa.

konstruqciulma procesma raRac

Sedegamde unda migviyvanos. ivnisis

aqciebis Sedegad xelisufleba

daTmobaze wavida da 2020 wels

proporciuli saarCevno sistemiT

arCevnebis Catarebas dasTanxmda,

miuxedavad imisa, rom maSin aqciis

sxva moTxovnebi ar Sesrulda. xelisuflebis

mxridan proporciul

saarCevno sistemaze daTanxmebam,

garkveulwilad, ganmuxta situacia.

amis Semdeg xelisuflebam es

dapireba ukan waiRo da zambara

isev daiWima. vxedavT, rom molaparakebebze

ivaniSvilis warmomadgenlebi

aranair politikur nebas

ar aCveneben, rom realurad isaubron

arsebul problemebze. ase

rom, arakonstruqciuli damokidebuleba,

pirvel rigSi, ivaniSvils

aqvs ara opoziciis, aramed saku-

Tari xalxisa da qveynis mimarT.

_ Tu „qarTulma ocnebam” ar-

sebuli saarCevno sistemiT 2012

wels SeZlo „nacionaluri moZr-

aobis” damarcxeba (amaze xSirad

akeTeben aqcents mmarTveli Zalis

warmomadgenlebi da aRniSnaven,

rom arCevnebs xalxis ndo-

ba igebs da ara _ romelime saar-

Cevno sistema), maSin ratom aris

2020 wels probleba Sereuli

saarCevno sistema?

_ pirvel rigSi, ar mgonia, rom

biZina ivaniSvils Tundac arsebuli

saarCevno sistemiT ver davamarcxebT.

arsebuli saarCevno sistemiTac

misi marcxi gardauvalia. im

politikuri realobidan gamomdinare,

romelic dRes qveyanaSia,

roca Cven marTvis saparlamento

sistemaze gadavediT mTlianad

proporciuli sistemiT dakompleqtebuli

parlamenti, vfiqrob, es

ukeTesi gzaa qveyanaSi stabiluri

ganviTarebis uzrunvelsayofad. am

SemTxvevaSi, ar minda sazogadoebam

CaTvalos, rom saarCevno sistemis

salome samadaSvili:

`realoba aris

erTi, rom

Cveni qveynis

momavlisTvis

unda Seicvalos

ivaniSvilis

xelisufleba~

gamocvlasTan dakavSirebiT mxolod

konkretuli politikuri partiebis

interesia an vinmes egonos,

rom ivaniSvils aqvs raime Sansi,

romelime saarCevno sistemis SemTxvevaSi

qveyanaSi Zalauflebis

SenarCunebis SesaZlebloba eqneba.

ubralod, qveynis stabiluri ganviTarebisTvis

sjobs, rom proporciul

saarCevno sistemaze gadavideT

_ es gviTxres saerTaSoriso

organizaciebmac da, rogorc Cans,

es aris sazogadoebis politikuri

dakveTac da moTxovnac.

_ „erTiani saqarTvelo _ demo-

kratiuli moZraobis” lider nino

burjanaZis moskovSi viziti xelisuflebam

saTaviso gamoiyena. ma-

galiTad, „qarTuli ocnebis” sapa-

rlamento umravlesobis lideri

mamuka mdinaraZe ar gamoricxavs,

rom burjanaZis viziti opoziciis

rusul gegmebze miuTiTebdes.

rogor fiqrobT, daaziana Tu ara

burjanaZis vizitma opoziciis

gaerTianeba?

_ me piradad ar mimaCnia, rom es

viziti gamarTlebuli an droulia.

Cven ruseTTan salaparakod

yovelTvis unda davsxdeT Cvens

megobrebTan da strategiul partniorebTan

Tanamonawileobis formatSi.

rac Seexeba politikur momavalsa

da qveynis sagareo politikas,

araerTxel gviTqvams, rom

qalbaton burjanaZesTan aravi-

Tari saerTo ar gvaqvs. Cven misgan

Zalian gansxvavebul platformaze

vdgvarT, magram im sakiTxSi, rom

qveyanaSi unda Catardes samarTliani

arCevnebi, vfiqrob, nebismier

politikur Zalas, Tundac CemTvis

miuRebels, rogoric aris qalbatoni

burjanaZis politikuri partia,

aqvs ufleba, daicvas saku-

Tari interesebi, radgan qarTvelma

xalxma unda gadawyvitos demokratiuli

gziT, romeli politikuri

Zalaa misTvis misaRebi. is, rom

qalbatoni burjanaZe ar aris misaRebi

saqarTvelos moqalaqeebis,

amomrCevlebis umravlesobisTvis

amas cxadyofs misi da misi politikuri

partiis sakmaod dabali

reitingi. Cveni es TanamSromloba

erTaderT sakiTxze Sedga, ris

garSemoc gaerTianda mTeli opoziciuri

speqtri _ es aris qveyanaSi

samarTliani da Tavisufali arCevnebis

Catareba. CemTvis es viziti

ar aris misaRebi. rac Seexeba opoziciuri

partiebis gaerTianebas,

konkretulad proporciul sistemasTan

dakavSirebuli gaerTianeba,

burjanaZis moskovSi vizitis gamo,

Tako Carkvianma datova. me ar vici,

`me piradad ar mimaCnia, rom es viziti

gamarTlebuli an droulia. Cven ruseTTan

salaparakod yovelTvis unda davsxdeT Cvens

megobrebTan da strategiul partniorebTan

Tanamonawileobis formatSi. rac Seexeba

politikur momavalsa da qveynis sagareo

politikas, araerTxel gviTqvams, rom

qalbaton burjanaZesTan araviTari saerTo ar

gvaqvs. Cven misgan Zalian gansxvavebul

platformaze vdgvarT~

sxva partiebs ra reaqcia eqnebaT

qalbatoni burjanaZis gadawyvetilebaze,

magram samarTliani arCevnebis

moTxovnis ufleba CemTvis

Zalian miuRebel politikur Zalasac

aqvs. qarTveli amomrCevlis gadasawyvetia,

magaliTad, prorusuli

politikuri Zalebidan maT

romeli ufro moswonT _ biZina

ivaniSvili Tu nino burjanaZe. es

im amomrCevelma unda gansazRvros,

romelsac Cveni amomrCevlisgan da

Cveni partiisgan gansxvavebuli xedva

aqvs qveynis sagareo politikur

orientaciaze.

_ xelisufleba am mocemulo-

baSi Cveul ritorikas iyenebs: Tu

Cven ar viqnebiT, miSa da „naciona-

lebi” dabrundebian. ramdenad

gaWris maTi es mesiji da imoqme-

debs Tu ara igi sazogadoebaze?

_ mgoni, aman amowura ukve Tavisi

potenciali. rac ufro mets

laparakobs xelisufleba imaze,

rom yvela „nacionalia”, vinc maT

ewinaaRmdegeba, miT ufro sasacilo

xdeba maTi es pozicia. piriqiT,

vfiqrob, es aZlierebs „nacionalur

moZraobas” im TvalsazrisiT,

rom erTaderT Zlier metoqed xelisufleba

„nacionalur moZraobas”

miiCnevs. amaSi eWvi arasdros

gvepareboda. rac mets gahyviris

xelisufleba, rom yvela, vinc maT

ewinaaRmdegeba, „nacionalia”, miT

ufro gvaZlierebs Cven da miT

ufro sasacilos xdis sakuTar

pozicias sazogadoebis TvalSi.

_ „mTavari arxis” damfuZnebelma

nika gvaramiam feisbuqze dawera:

„uzurpatori unda davamxoT”,

es posti gaaziara saqarTve-

los mesame prezidentma mixeil

saakaSvilma, gvaramia ki amis gamo

sus-Si dakiTxvaze daibares. ramdenad

iziarebT Tqven am formulirebas

da azianebs Tu ara „nacionalur

moZraobas” msgavsi Si-

naarsis mowodebebi, Tundac

saakaSvilis mxridan?

_ biZina ivaniSvili unda Seicvalos,

amas, Tu gnebavT, damxoba

dauZaxeT an Secvla. realoba aris

erTi, rom Cveni qveynis momavlis-

Tvis unda Seicvalos ivaniSvilis

xelisufleba. ivaniSvils rom

uzurpirebuli aqvs Zalaufleba,

mgoni, amaze yvelani vTanxmdebiT.

sus-ma rom gamoZieba daiwyo gvaramias

postis gamo, es imis demonstrireba

iqneba, rom sul ufro da

ufro represiuli reJimis saxes

iRebs ivaniSvilis xelisufleba.

aseve es aris kidev erTi dadastureba

imisa, rom nebismieri sababiT

cdiloben konkretuli adamianebis,

politikosisa Tu Jurnalistis

winaaRmdeg saqmis Sekervasa

6 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


represiuli reJimis saxes iRebs~

da aRZvras.

_ bolo periodSi Cven vnaxeT,

rom xelisufleba kontraqciebs

awyobs, aseve saqarTvelos re-

gionebSi sityvieri da fizikuri

dapirispireba moxda aqciis monaw-

ileebs Soris. arsebobs Tu ara

imis safrTxe, rom am dapirispirebebSi

mTavari moTxovna pro-

porciul sistemaze gadasvlasTan

dakavSirebiT „daikargos”?

_ xelisufleba samarcxvino

gzas daadga _ is kontraqciebs awyobs.

e. i. mmarTveli Zala saboloo

fazaSi Sevida. visurvebdi, am politikurma

procesma mSvidobiani da

civilizebuli saxe miiRos. kontraqciebis

mowyoba da Tavdasxmebis

organizeba opoziciuri politikuri

partiebis ofisebTan, rogoric,

magaliTad, zugdidsa da

mcxeTaSi iyo, ukiduresad saxifa-

Toa da am daorganizebuli Zaladobis

koordineba opoziciis winaaRmdeg

Zalian mZime danaSaulia

xelisuflebis mxridan.

_ garda imisa, rom ganagrZobT

politikur performansebs, ras

gegmavT opozicia, ra konkretu-

li nabijebi unda gadadgaT?

_ Cven brZolas kooridinebulad

gavagrZelebT yvela frontze.

es iqneba saSinao Tu sagareo

xazze. magaliTad, gaerTianebuli

opoziciis warmomadgenlebi mivemgzavrebiT

amerikaSi. Cven Zalian

aqtiurad vimuSavebT saerTaSoriso

TanamegobrobasTan ivaniSvilis

xelisuflebaze zewolis mobilizebisa

da ganxorcielebis TvalsazrisiT.

aseve gavagrZelebT sazogadoebrivi

winaaRmdegobis

frontis saqmianobas ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg, radgan, sxvanairad, Sesabamisi

zewolis gareSe, vxedavT,

rom ivaniSvili Zalian didi xniT

apirebs darCes Cveni qveynis xelisuflebaSi,

miuxedavad imisa, rom

mas sazogadoebrivi mxardaWera

ukve aRar aqvs.

_ ivaniSvilis finansuri res-

ursi opoziciasTan mimarTebiT

kvlav upiratesobad rCeba,

rogor fiqrobT, ra unda daupir-

ispiroT amas?

_ ivaniSvils finansuri upiratesoba

im TvalsazrisiTac aqvs,

rom sabiujeto resursebs iyenebs.

realurad, korufciuli sqemis

nawilia partia „qarTuli ocnebis”

dafinanseba. meti Zalisxmeva unda

davxarjoT imaze, rom es sqemebi

gamoaSkaravdes, Tu ra gzebiT finansdeba

biZina ivaniSvilis politikuri

proeqti. amis gamoaSkaraveba

Sedegebs moitans.

miTi `SuaSistebze~

2011 Tu 2012 wels imdroindel-

Tengiz abloTia

ma opoziciurma Jurnalistma,

dRes ki „qarTuli ocnebis” erT-

erTma mTavarma propagandistma, Salva ramiSvilma, gaisrola

termini, romelic ise moergo aqaur politikur vels, rom,

rogorc Cans, is icocxlebs mis avtorze bevrad ufro didx-

ans. es terminia _ „SuaSizmi”.

dRes qarTuli politikuri

realoba warmoudgenelia „SuaSistebis”

gareSe _ maTi gulis mosagebad

ibrZvis yvela politikuri

partia, maT azrs adgens yvela

sociologiuri gamokiTxva.

faqtobrivad, dRevandeli

ukiduresi polarizaciis pirobebSi,

rodesac simpaTiebis Secvla

da mowinaaRmdege banakSi gadabargeba

TiTqmis warmoudgenelia,

swored „SuaSistebze” nadiroba

gaxda qarTuli politikis

mTavari arsi.

amas aseve axalisebs yvela

gamokiTxvaSi im adamianTa didi

raodenoba, vinc ver ayalibebs

Tavis pozicias da eZebs e. w. mesame

Zalas.

swored es miTiuri „mesame Zalaa”

qarTuli politikis wminda

graali _ yvela cdilobs am statusis

morgebas da „SuaSistebis”

gulebis mogebas.

Tumca midis wlebi da sociologiuri

monacemebi TiTqmis ar

icvleba, mosaxleobis didi nawili

kvlav dabneulobaSia, „Sua-

Sistebi” ki _ agrZeleben idealis

Ziebas.

isini elodebian srulyofili

adamianebis gamoCenas qarTul

politikaSi _ maTi rCeuli unda

iyos Wkviani, ganaTlebuli, darbaiseli,

Tavmdabali, fizikurad

simpaTiuri, saeWvo warsulis

gareSe da a. S.

vinaidan idealuri adamianebi

realur samyaroSi ar arseboben,

miT umetes, iseT codvil qveyanaSi,

rogoric saqarTveloa, da

miT umetes, qarTuli politika,

„SuaSistebis” simpaTiebi ver daimsaxura

verc erTma politikurma

partiam, romelsac mesame Zalis

niSis dakavebis pretenzia

aqvs.

qarTveli „SuaSistebis” mosawoni

adamiani, rogorc Cans, jer

ar dabadebula. maT ar moswonT

aravin _ „SuaSistebis” mTavari

lozungi _ „yvela politikosi

erTmaneTze uaresia” _ kvlav

ZalaSia.

maT ar moswonT Zveli politikosebi

_ maT xom 30 weli vuyurebT

da veranair xeirs maTgan

ver vxedavT.

maT ar moswonT arc axalgazrdebi

_ isini xom gamoucdelebi

arian, politika ar esmiT, xalxi

maT ar icnobs, ratom unda

misces vinmem maT xma?

maT ar moswonT mSvidobiani

aqciebi _ am gziT xom mainc verafers

Secvli.

maT aseve ar moswonT radikaluri

aqciebi _ areuloba da

dapirispireba araa saWiro.

mokled, marjvniv waxval _

CamogaxCoben, marcxniv _ dagxvreten.

„SuaSistebis” guli ver moigo

veravin: mamuka xazaraZes „lelomac”

ki _ imis miuxedavad, rom

es organizacia yvelaze Sesaferisia

„mesame Zalad” Camosayalibeblad.

mas hyavs cnobili, Zlieri

da mdidari lideri, is araa

dakavSirebuli arc „nacmoZraobasTan”

da arc _ „ocnebasTan”,

hyavs bevri axalgazrda aqtivisti.

`swored es miTiuri `mesame Zalaa~ qarTuli

politikis wminda graali - yvela cdilobs am

statusis morgebas da `SuaSistebis~ gulebis

mogebas~

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

`rogorc mravalwliani gamocdileba gviCvenebs, `SuaSistebad~ wodebuli

adamianebi sinamdvileSi arian `qarTuli ocnebis~ faruli momxreebi.

albaT yvela vicnobT adamianebs, romlebsac ar siamovnebT mTavrobis Ria

mxardaWera - es xom jer sabWoTa droidan modis - xelisuflebis mxardaWera

ar iTvleba `kai tipobad~. maT ki surT iyon `kai tipebi~, Tumca gulis

siRrmeSi arian `qocebi~. mTeli es ritorika `yvela erTmaneTze uaresia~,

àravis vaZlev xmas~, `yvelas deda vatire~ - aris ubralod Tavis marTleba~

erTi sityviT, aha, SuaSistebo,

_ Tqvens quCazec movida zeimi.

magram ara _ mainc ukmayofiloebi

arian, wuwuneben, amaxvileben

yuradRebas sabanko saqmianobaze

da politikur gamoucdelobaze

da saerTod: „xazaraZe

jer araa mzad politikaSi mosasvlelad”.

mokled, „SuaSistebi” gaxdnen

qarTuli politikis erTgvari

ukareba qaliSvilebi, romlebmac

verafriT ipoves Sesaferisi mamakaci.

Tumca, sinamdvileSi, „SuaSizmi”

Tavidan bolomde miTia. ukareba

qaliSvili ver poulobs saqmros

mxolod imitom, rom ar eZebs.

mas ukve hyavs saqmro, ubralod,

amas ar ambobs xmamaRla.

realur cxovrebaSi aranairi

„SuaSisti” ar arsebobs. rogorc

mravalwliani gamocdileba gviCvenebs,

„SuaSistebad” wodebuli

adamianebi sinamdvileSi arian

„qarTuli ocnebis” faruli momxreebi.

albaT yvela vicnobT adamianebs,

romlebsac ar siamovnebT

mTavrobis Ria mxardaWera _ es

xom jer sabWoTa droidan modis

_ xelisuflebis mxardaWera ar

iTvleba „kai tipobad”.

maT ki surT iyon „kai tipebi”,

Tumca gulis siRrmeSi arian „qocebi”.

mTeli es ritorika „yvela

erTmaneTze uaresia”, „aravis vaZlev

xmas”, „yvelas deda vatire”

_ aris ubralod Tavis marTleba.

Cveulebriv, rutinul cxovrebaSi,

rodesac arafer xdeba,

„SuaSistebi”, iseve rogorc danarCeni,

bolo sityvebiT agineben

xelisuflebas. Tumca sakmarisia,

situacia garTuldes, da

maT gulis siRrmeSi sayvarel

partias rame daemuqros _ SediT

„SuaSistebis” gverdebze socialur

qselebSi da advilad

mixvdebiT, romel banakSi imyofebian

isini.

araviTari „SuaSisti” bunebaSi

ar arsebobs. yvelanairi „xelisufleba

ar varga magram...”, aris

faruli „qocizmi”. rogorc ki

gamoCnda sityva „magram” _ Tqven

ukve airCieT banaki.

ramdenic gindaT imdeni agineT

xelisufleba _ sinamdvileSi,

swored „SuaSistebi”, TavianTi

cinizmiTa da nihilizmis TesviT,

arian xelisuflebis mTavari dasayrdeni

_ bevrad ufro sando,

vidre gaxaria, RaribaSvili an

gomelauri.

7


laSa CxartiSvili `qarTul

599 92 16 22 laSa CxartiSvili:

saqarTveloSi rom yvelaferi

Sorena marsagiSvili

mosula, es biZina ivaniSvilis xe-

599 92 16 22

lisuflebam kidev erTxel dagvim-

tkica. samarTaldamcvelebma opo-

ziciis erT-erTi lideri da uflebadamcveli laSa CxartiSvili

lobios gamo daakaves. „qronika+”-ma masTan interviu dakavebam-

de ramdenime saaTiT adre Cawera. CxartiSvili ambobda, rom,

didi albaTobiT, „ocnebis” xelisufleba mas daakavebda, magram

verasdros warmoidgenda, rom lobios gamo daiWerdnen. morigi

interviu masTan cixidan gamosvlidan ramdenime saaTSi CavwereT.

am ucnaur ambavs is axla xalisiT ixsenebs, Tumca amis gatarebas

ar apirebs da strasburgSi wasvlas gegmavs. „naciona-

lebis” xelisuflebas strasburgSi man orjer ukve mougo.

ratom midis strasburgSi?

waiRebs Tu ara amieridan aqciebze

lobios? ratom unda dadg-

es sazogadoeba opoziciasTan

erTad? ratom aris saxifaTo

erTpartiuli mmarTveloba? _

am Temebze leiboristuli parti

tiis is erT-erTi lideri, laSa

CxartiSvili, „qronika+”-s es-

aubreba:

_ „nacionalebis” mier politikuri

niSniT 11-jer dakavebuli

Tu warmoidgendiT, rom „ocnebis”

xelisufleba dagakavebdaT

da es dakavebac poli-

tikuri niSniT moxdeboda?

_ vgrZnobdi, rom, adre Tu

gvian, ivaniSvilis xelisufleba

damakavebda, magram verasdros

warmovidgendi, Tu es lobios

gamo moxdeboda. etyoba, ivaniSvili

da misi garemocva iseT agoniaSi

arian, rom lobios gamo

adamianebis dakavebasac ki aRar

eridebian.

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebs

Tu hgoniaT, rom am dakavebiT

SemaSineben, Zalian Semcdaran.

„nacionalebis” dros 11-jer

damakaves politikuri niSniT,

magram ar gavCerebulvar. rogorc

ki gareT gamovdiodi, egreve

vagrZelebdi brZolas. verc

axla gamaCereben. rodesac xelisufleba

aseT daWerebze gadadis,

es mis agoniasa da dasasrulze

metyvelebs. es opera,

sul mcire, samjer mainc maqvs

nanaxi. pirovnuli dapirispireba

arc SevardnaZesTan mqonia da

arc _ saakaSvilTan, piradulis

gamo arc ivaniSvils vupirispirdebi.

maTTan uTanxmoeba im sakiTxebze

maqvs, rac Cems qveyanas

exeba. qveynis keTildReobisTvis

mzad var, rom kidev Cavjde cixeSi.

ramdenjerac ar unda dami-

Wiron, rogorc ki gamoval,

egreve gavagrZeleb brZolas usamarTlobis

winaaRmdeg. bolSevikuri

tipis reJimebis winaaRmdeg

brZolas arasdros Sevwyvet.

_ Tqven patara wvlili ar

SegitaniaT imaSi, rom „ocneba”

xelisuflebaSi mosuliyo. am

RvawlisTvis ivaniSvilma ministris

moadgilis postic ki SemogTavazaT.

erT dros Taname-

brZolebi iyaviT da guli ar

dagwydaT, rom yofilma Taname-

brZolma cixisTvis gagimetaT?

_ cixeSi moxvedra ar gamxarebia,

magram guli ar mtkenia imis

gamo, rom es ivaniSvilis xelisuflebam

gaakeTa. „ocnebasTan” didi

xnis win gavwyvite yovelgvari

kavSiri. jer kidev 2013 wels

mivxvdi, rom „ocnebis” lideri

samarTliani mmarTveli ar iqneboda,

isic kargad davinaxe, rom

is danapirebis Sesrulebaze arc

ki fiqrobda. aseT pirobebSi ki

aranairi survili ar mqonda,

raime Tanamdeboba damekavebina.

Tanamdeboba CemTvis TviTmizani

arasdros yofila. mxolod

im SemTxvevaSi waval Tanamdebobaze,

roca davinaxav, rom marTla

qveynis keTildReobas movaxmar

Cems codnasa da gamocdilebas.

roca Tanamdeboba erTgvari

qrTamia, mas, ubralod, ar mivi-

Reb. me ar var korumpirebuli da

meqrTame. amave mizeziT vuTxari

ufro adre uari saakaSvils ministris

moadgileobaze.

_ saakaSvilic ministris

moadgileobas gTavazobdaT?

_ ucnauria, magram isic garemos

dacvis ministris moadgilis

posts mTavazobda. roca es SeTavazeba

miviRe, maSin, sul raRac,

24 wlis viyavi. orjer vTqvi

uari, damekavebina ministris moadgilis

posti.

_ Tqvenc kai „nacionali” yofilxarT.

aba, miSa ratom Semog-

TavazebdaT ministris moadgi-

lis posts?

_ „nacionali” ar vyofilvar,

me vebrZodi SevardnaZis reJims,

iseve rogorc mogvianebiT saakaSvils

davupirispirdi. axla ukve

ivaniSvilis reJimTan miwevs

brZola. samive maTgans imis gamo

davupirispirdi, rom isini bol-

Sevizmis gzas daadgnen. erTpartiuli

mmarTveloba bolSevizm-

Si gadadis, bolSevizmi ki ngrevasa

da ubedurebas niSnavs. Tu

gvinda, rom momavalSi mainc aRar

iyos saqarTveloSi bolSevikuri

mmarTveloba, mravalpartiuli

parlamenti unda gvyavdes.

aseTi parlamentis arCeva ki mxolod

proporciuli sistemiT

SeiZleba. ivaniSvili uars ambobs

proporciul sistemaze gadasvlaze,

jiutobs da es misTvis cudad

dasruldeba. misi winamorbedebic

ase jiutobdnen, magram

sabolood mainc damarcxdnen.

„qarTulma ocnebam” Tu ar da-

Tmo, es ambavi revoluciiT dasruldeba.

revolucia ki Zalian

ar minda, rogori mSvidobianic

`lobios

diqtatorma

ivaniSvilma

daWerebiT

kobaxiZeebi da

TalakvaZeebi

SeaSinos~

ar unda iyos is.

me proporciuli arCevnebiT

minda xelisuflebis Secvla. Tu

am sistemiT Catardeba arCevnebi,

garwmunebT, arc erT partias

ar eqneba imis Sansi, rom didi

upiratesoba moipovos. winaaRmdeg

SemTxvevaSi kvlav erTpartiul

mmarTvelobas miviRebT, rac

am qveyanas sikeTes ar moutans.

erTpartiuli mmarTveloba

niSnavs, rom qveynis xelisufals

absoluturi Zalaufleba aqvs.

Zalaufleba ki adamians ryvnis,

absoluturi Zalaufleba _ absoluturad

ryvnis. erTaderTi

adamiani, romelic Zalauflebam

ar garyvna, vaclav havelia. ai,

amitom aris mniSvnelovani proporciuli

wesiT arCevnebis Catareba.

amas Cveni sazogadoebac unda

acnobierebdes. sasurveli

iqneboda, rom sazogadoeba maqsimalurad

CarTuliyo im saprotesto

moZraobaSi, romelic

dRes gvaqvs. rac ufro meti xalxi

iqneba gareT, miT male wava xelisufleba

daTmobaze. bevr

xalxs rom dainaxavs, „ocneba” aqtivistebis

dapatimrebasac moerideba.

da rac mTavaria, sazogadoeba

imitom unda dadges

quCaSi, rom saqme qveynisa da maT

momavals exeba. mesmis, rom viRacas

iq „nacionalebi” ar moswons,

viRacas _ prorusuli partiebi.

es mxolod sababia imisTvis, rom

quCaSi ar gamovidnen. Cemi azriT,

„nacionalebisa” da prorusulebis

aqciaze dgoma gacilebiT

meti motivaciaa xalxis quCaSi

gamosayvanad.

_ ratom aris es xalxis gamo-

sayvani motivacia?

_ visac es adamianebi ar moswons

da ar unda, rom xelisuflebaSi

movidnen, gamovidnen da

isinic quCaSi dadgnen, raTa ase-

Ti Zalebis xelisuflebaSi mosvlas

xeli SeuSalon.

xalxis ganwyoba parlamentSi

mxolod im SemTxvevaSi aisaxeba,

Tu arCevnebi proporciuli wesiT

Catardeba. ase rom, erTad

vibrZoloT proporciuli arCevnebisTvis.

dae, partiebma parlamentSi

imdeni kaci gaiyvanon,

ramden xmasac maT xalxi miscems.

`nacionali~ ar vyofilvar, me vebrZodi

SevardnaZis reJims, iseve rogorc mogvianebiT

saakaSvils davupirispirdi. axla ukve

ivaniSvilis reJimTan miwevs brZola. samive

maTgans imis gamo davupirispirdi, rom isini

bolSevizmis gzas daadgnen. erTpartiuli

mmarTveloba bolSevizmSi gadadis, bolSevizmi

ki ngrevasa da ubedurebas niSnavs~

agoniaSi myof ivaniSvils aRar

unda mivceT imis ufleba, rom

kidev erTi vadiT Caigdos Zalaufleba

xelSi. is da misi xelisufleba

saqarTvelos ufskrulisken

miaqaneben.

_ albaT, marTla agoniiT aix-

sneba is garemoeba, rom adamian-

ebs lobios gamo akaveben, rogorc

es Tqvens SemTxvevaSi mox-

da. Tavidan megona, rom leibo-

ristebi xumrobdnen, roca

Tqves, rom Tqven lobios ayris

gamo dagakaves. ra pirobebSi

dagakaves?

_ jer ivaniSvilis agoniur

mdgomareobaze vityvi or-sam sityvas:

ivaniSvili rom agoniaSia,

es ukve ramdenime Tvea, aSkarad

Cans. bolo TveebSi man bevri

adamiani daaWerina politikuri

niSniT. es ki ukve agonias niSnavs.

Tavidan cdilobda, raRaciT

mainc yofiliyo winamorbedisgan

gansxvavebuli, magram bolomde

ver SeZlo. „gavrilovis Ramis”

usastikesi darbevis Semdeg man

daamtkica, rom sisxliani xelisufalia

da awi nuRar ityvis, rom

misi mmarTvelobis dros aravin

mokles. „gavrilovis Rames” adamianebs

Tavsa da TvalebSi esrodnen,

rac SeiZleboda, sikvdiliT

dasrulebuliyo. is, rom im

Rames adamianebi ar daiRupnen, es

RvTis wyaloba iyo, Torem ivaniSvilis

xeliT im Rames ramdenime

adamiania mokluli. ase rom,

isic sisxliani xelisufalia. saakaSvils

man politikuri niSniT

adamianebis dakavebaSic mibaZa.

uamravi xalxi daakaves bolo

TveebSi, magram lobios gamo marto

me damiWires.

ivaniSvils rom Zalis gamoyeneba

dasWirdeboda, es Tavidanve

naTeli iyo. man yvela dapirebis

Sesrulebaze uari Tqva. aseT

dros xalxis ndoba ikargeba da

xelisufali iZulebulia, Zala

gamoiyenos. misnairi aRviraxsnili

matyuara qarTul politika-

Si ar minaxavs. aseTi matyuara

msoflios politikur istoria-

Sic ki ar maxsendeba.

_ lobios ambavze gadavideT

8 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


ocnebas~ strasburgSi uCivlebs

da isic gviTxariT, Tu ratom

waiReT aqciaze lobio?

_ lobios gamoyenebas sul

sxva viTarebaSi vapirebdi, magram

moZalade xelisuflebam gegmis

sisruleSi moyvana ar macala.

davinaxe, rogor Zaladobda policia

aqciis mSvidobian monawileebze,

Cem gverdiT mdgomi

erTi gogona Zlivs gamovglije

xelidan policielebs. Jurnalistebi

WyletaSi moayoles. Cven,

praqtikulad, gadagviares. am

yvelaferma Zalian gamabraza da

gadavwyvite, rame formiT gamomexata

protesti. Tan waRebuli

mqonda umi lobio da am ukanonobis

gasaprotesteblad marcvlebi

haerSi avyare. uamravi

TviTmxilvelia mowme imisa, rom

me lobio haerSi avyare da aravisTvis

Semiyria saxeSi. amis miuxedavad,

damakaves. sxva SemTxveva-

Si, albaT, ar damakavebdnen, magram,

etyoba, CemTan dakavSirebiT

ivaniSvili didi xania, kbilebs

ilesavs da rogorc ki dakavebis

Sansi miecaT, damakaves.

lobios gamo Tu damakavebdnen,

amas namdvilad ver warmovidgendi.

lobios ayra kanonis darRveva

ar aris. lobios gamo Cemi

dakaveba „qarTul ocnebas” Zalian

Zviri daujdeba. „nacionalebs”

orjer movuge strasburg-

Si sasamarTlo. am saqmesac waviReb

strasburgSi da mainteresebs,

rogor gaimarTleben Tavs

evropis winaSe. sad gagonila,

adamians aqciaze haerSi lobios

ayris gamo akavebdnen?! absurdis

TeatrSi megona Tavi, rodesac

samarTaldamcvelebma lobios

daluqvis process damaswres.

_ amas imedia, xumrobiT am-

bobT.

_ sruli seriozulobiT geubnebiT.

jer lobios daluqvas

damaswres. mere es daluquli

lobio sasamarTloze nivTmtkicebis

saxiT warmoadgines. Semdeg

mosamarTle filiSvilma, romelic,

Tavis mxriv, aris monis mona,

patimroba momisaja.

_ monis mona ratom aris

filiSvili? ras gulisxmobT?

_ filiSvili aris murusiZis

mona. murusiZe ki, Tavis mxriv,

ivaniSvilis monaa. amitom aris

batoni valeriane monis mona. am

lobios gamo ki gamatarebines

rva dRe sapatimroSi, magram es

imas ar niSnavs, rom aqciaze

lobios aRar waviReb.

_ kidev unda ayaroT lobio

haerSi?

_ movifiqreb rames. lobios

aucileblad gamoviyeneb saprotesto

aqciis dros. arc mis

haerSi ayras moveridebi.

_ lobios nacvlad stafilo

rom waiRoT da is ayaroT haerSi?

ivaniSvils uyvars stafilo da

amis gamo Sars veRar mogdeben.

_ stafilos gamoyenebac Sei-

Zleba, magram isev lobio sjobs.

lobio Zalian kargi da sasargeblo

produqtia. samwuxaroa, rom

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

`gavrilovis Rames~ adamianebs Tavsa da TvalebSi esrodnen, rac

SeiZleboda, sikvdiliT dasrulebuliyo. is, rom im Rames adamianebi ar

daiRupnen, es RvTis wyaloba iyo, Torem ivaniSvilis xeliT im Rames

ramdenime adamiania mokluli. ase rom, isic sisxliani xelisufalia.

saakaSvils man politikuri niSniT adamianebis dakavebaSic mibaZa. uamravi

xalxi daakaves bolo TveebSi, magram lobios gamo marto me damiWires.

ivaniSvils rom Zalis gamoyeneba dasWirdeboda, es Tavidanve naTeli iyo.

man yvela dapirebis Sesrulebaze uari Tqva. aseT dros xalxis ndoba

ikargeba da xelisufali iZulebulia, Zala gamoiyenos. misnairi

aRviraxsnili matyuara qarTul politikaSi ar minaxavs. aseTi matyuara

msoflios politikur istoriaSic ki ar maxsendeba~

Cveni mosaxleobis nawils mis

sayidlad fuli ar aqvs. lobios

arafers verCi, magram umi lobio

monebis saWmelia da amitom avyare

maSin haerSi. me monebad miviCnev

yvela im adamians, romelic

ukanono brZanebebs asrulebs.

monaa valeriane filiSvili,

romelic yvela aqtivists patimrobas

ufardebs. monaa Tea wulukiani,

romelmac jer sakuTar

partias uRalata da axla qveyanas

Ralatobs, imitom rom im

erT kacs asiamovnos. monaa salome

zurabiSvili, romelic kriminalebs

iwyalebs.

_ ratom iwyalebs marto

kriminalebs? _ Ramis 11 saaTze

lobios saWmeladac dadis. ise,

eg ratom ar daiWires? qali

Ramis 11 saaTze lobios rom

SeWams, dasaWeria, aba, ra aris...

_ lobios Wama danaSauli ar

aris, magram am konkretul Sem-

TxvevaSi salome zurabiSvili

damsaxurebulad gaatares sircxvilis

derefanSi. mas ar Sercxva

da lobios saWmelad wavida

im dros, roca rusTavelze darbeuli

axalgazrdebi aqcias mar-

Tavdnen. Tan sadme Sors ki ar

wavida, iqve maCablis quCaze dajda

salobieSi. lobios politikuri

protestis gamosaxatavad

kidev gamoviyeneb da Tu undaT,

isev damiWiron, me daWeris

ar meSinia. oficialuri versiiT,

mTlad marto lobios ayrisTvis

ar var dakavebuli, policia gzis

gadaketvis gamoc medaveba. magaT

rom hkiTxo, yaraman yanTeli var,

radganac martos gadamiketavs

gza. arada, Tavad policias hqonda

sinamdvileSi gza gadaketili.

im aqciaze samasi policieli iyo

da _ amdenive aqciis monawile.

imis gamo, rom policiam gza

gadaketa, Cven, faqtobrivad, alyaSi

aRmovCndiT. aqciis dros Cem

mimarT aranairi moTxovna ar

yofila. aravis mouwodebia CemTvis,

rom gzidan gadavsuliyavi,

àgoniaSi myof ivaniSvils aRar unda mivceT

imis ufleba, rom kidev erTi vadiT Caigdos

Zalaufleba xelSi. is da misi xelisufleba

saqarTvelos ufskrulisken miaqaneben~

amitom Cemi dakaveba sruli ukanonoba

iyo. saakaSvils ivaniSvilma

iciT, raSi gaswro kidev?

_ lobios ayris gamo daakava adamiani,

romelic advokatis gareSe

gamasamarTles. amasTan, gadawyvetilebis

gasaCivrebis uflebac

ar momces.

_ advokatis gareSe rogor

gagasamarTles?

_ advokats jer Cemi Tavi daumales.

dakavebidan, sul mcire,

saaT-naxevris manZilze arsad

marekinebdnen. didi brZolis

Semdeg, rogorc iqna, damarekines

advokatTan. maT imedi hqondaT,

rom qalaqSi arsebuli sacobebis

gamo advokati droze ver moaxerxebda

diRomSi policiis sammarTveloSi

gamosvlas. advokati

policiis sammarTveloSi

droze movida, magram SigniT ar

SemouSves. imisTvis, rom mas ar

Sevxvedrodi, egreve gadamiyvanes

sasamarTloSi. sasamarTloze

mosamarTlem darbazidan gamaZeva.

advokatTan Cemi Sexvedra isev

ver moxerxda. advokatma, realurad,

ar icoda, ra moxda SemTxvevis

adgilze, mas es mxolod

televiziiT hqonda nanaxi. televiziebi,

bunebrivia, yvelafers

ver gadaiRebdnen. mas Cemgan unda

gaego simarTle. Cven dalaparakebis

uflebac ki ar mogvces.

TerTmetjer viyavi dakavebuli

saakaSvilis dros, magram ar maxsendeba,

rom rodesme advokatis

gareSe gavesamarTlebine. aseTi

ram arc sxvebze gamigia. bolSevikebis

dros es Cveulebrivi ambavi

iyo. etyoba, ivaniSvilma sabolood

gadawyvita, damoukidebel

saqarTveloSi bolSevikuri

mmarTveloba SemoiRos. isic

ucnauria, aqciebze dakavebulebis

saqmeebs, maincdamainc, valeriane

filiSvili ratom ixilavs?

etyoba, ivaniSvilis mosamarTleebsac

aRar endoba bolomde. es

ukanaskneli ki mis ndobas amarTlebs.

dakavebulTa 80%-s man

administraciuli patimroba Seufarda.

inkviziciis dros iyo,

adamianebs mtkicebulebebis gareSe

rom asamarTlebdnen. mec ase

gamasamarTles.

Cems advokats mtkicebulebebis

mosapoveblad mxolod sami

saaTi misces. raki mas CemTan gasaubrebis

ufleba ar misces, is

iZulebuli iyo, televiziebSi

wasuliyo da maTTvis eTxova aqciaze

gadaRebuli masala. amis

gakeTebac ver moxerxda. qalaqSi

iseTi sacobebi iyo, marto erT

televiziamde misasvlelad

dasWirdeboda sami saaTi.

policielebs ar aRmoaCndaT

samxre kamerebi, arada garSemo

aTeuli policieli idga.

me gamasamarTles ramdenime

cru mowme policielis Cvenebis

safuZvelze. arc ki SercxvaT,

ise CamiTvales lobio iaraRad.

kidev kargi, biologiuri iaraRis

kvalifikacia ar mianiWes.

gasaCivrebis ufleba ar momces,

magram am saqmes ase ar davtoveb,

strasburgamde mival da amis

gamoc vagebineb ivaniSvilis re-

Jims pasuxs.

lobios diqtator ivaniSvils

minda vuTxra, rom daWerebiT um

lobioze gazrdili kobaxiZeebi

da TalakvaZeebi SeaSinos. aseve

SeaSinos jer kidev saakaSvilis

monebi _ murusiZe da CinCalaZe,

romlebic wina reJims emsaxurebodnen

da piradi interesebiT

moqmedebdnen. daWerebiT Cemi

SeSineba sasaciloa. daWeris arc

sxva aqtivistebs eSiniaT, magram

sasurvelia, Tuki aseTi faqtebi

aRar ganmeordeba. amis aRkveTa

mxolod xalxmravali aqciebiT

aris SesaZlebeli. rac ufro

meti adamiani gamova quCaSi, miT

male dadgeba Sedegi. is, ramac

mTeli opozicia gaaerTiana, yvelas

exeba. es Cveni qveynis momavlisTvis

umniSvnelovanesia, amitom

erTad unda vibrZoloT

ukeTesi momavlisTvis da demokratiuli

arCevnebisTvis.

saxlSi jdoma da imis lodini,

rom sxva gaakeTebs Sens gasakeTebels,

ulamazo saqcielia.

Zalian male daanonsdeba aqcia,

romelic im mosamarTleebis

winaaRmdeg iqneba mimarTuli, visac

ivaniSvili uvadod upirebs

gamwesebas. es mosamarTleebi

jer saakaSvilis davalebebs asrulebdnen,

axla ki saakaSvilis

monebad muSaoben.

aseTi mosamarTleebis xelSi

samarTliani sasamarTlo ver

gveqneba. sasamarTlo roca usamarTloa,

iq qveyanac usamarTloa.

sadac samarTali araa, iq arc

mSvidobaa. ase rom, yvelani unda

gamovideT da erTad vibrZoloT

samarTlianobisTvis. amas Cven

nacvlad sxva ar gaakeTebs. lobios

diqtatori unda gavuSvaT da

erTpartiuli mmarTvelobac

zed mivayoloT.

9

rac Seexeba opozicias, miqaias

TqmiT, is opoziciuri gaerTiane-

ba, romelic proporciuli arC-

evnebis moTxovnis mizniT Seiqmna,

ekleqturia da, Sesabamisad,

xalxs mxolod xelisuflebis ki

ara, opoziciis imedic ar aqvs.

yvelafer amis gaTvaliswinebiT,

miqaia opozicias „ujaro generlebs”

uwodebs da ambobs, rom ax-

landeli mocemulobiT, arCevnebs

kvlav ivaniSvili moigebs, Tumca

gamocdili politikosi aqve ganmartavs,

rom erTi weli poli-

tikaSi sakmaod didi droa da,

Sesabamisad, maSin, roca arCevnebi

Catardeba, SesaZloa, sxva re-

aloba iyos.

_ batono kaxa, opoziciam regionebSi

gadainacvla, sadac an-

tisaxelisuflebo aqciebis parale

lelurad, lurad, „meocnebeebi” „demi-

Sizaciis” moTxovniT quCaSi arian

gamosulebi. Tqven ki, romel-

ic saakaSvils maSin ebrZodiT,

roca is xelisuflebaSi iyo, am

saerTo „antinacionalur Jriam-

ulSi” ar monawileobT. ratom?

politikas saerTod xom ar

CamoSordiT?

_ ara, politikas ar CamovSorebulvar,

magram aseT politikur

aqtivobebSi ar vmonawileob.

_ hoda, mec eg mainteresebs,

ratom ar monawileobT, davije-

ro, „demiSizacia” ar gindaT?

_ „demiSizacia” karga xania, gavakeTe!

_ Tu asea, aba, „ocnebis” mimdevrebi

miSas gadadgomas ratom-

Ra iTxoven?

_ saqarTveloSi „demiSizacia”

ukve damTavrebulia. yvelaferi is

ki, rac axla xdeba, bunebrivi ki

ara, xelovnuria!

_ SeiZleba, magram am xelovnuro

robasac, albaT, Tavisi mizani

aqvs, ara?

_ diax, aqvs da xelisuflebis

mizani isaa, rom mixeil saakaSvili

da, saerTod, „nacionaluri moZraoba”

mTavar opoziciur Zalad

warmoaCinos da Sesabamisad, arCevnebs

isev am lozungiT _ „ara mi-

Sas” _ Sexvdes! arada, miSa ar arsebobs,

damTavrebulia! mokled,

Tu xelisuflebas unda, rom aqcenti

miSaze gaakeTos, ki batono,

magram miSa dasrulebulia da „demiSizaciac”

xelovnuri procesia!

_ e. i., „demiSizacia” „ocnebis”

piarsvlaa da meti araferi?

_ ra Tqma unda.

_ qveyanaSi politikuri kriz-

isia da am dros xelisuflebam

piarisTvis moicala?

_ politikuri krizisi araa.

_ aba, ra aris?

_ is, rac axla qveyanaSi xdeba,

politikuri ki ara, moraluri da

10


òcnebaSi~ aris briyvebis jgufi, romelic

„daicavi saqarTvelos” yofili

giorgi abaSiZe

wevri, kaxa miqaia, romelic mixeil

saakaSvilis winaaRmdeg am ukanasknelis

xelisuflebaSi yofnis dros ibrZoda, „demiSizaciis”

egidiT dawyebul e. w. kontraqciebSi ar monawileobs, radgan

miaCnia, rom es xelovnuri procesia, anu kaxa miqaias ganmarte-

biT, xelisufleba cdilobs, rom „nacmoZraobisgan” isev „bua”

Seqmnas da momdevno arCevnebSi kvlav Zveli lozungiT _ „ara

miSas” gamovides. aqedan gamomdinare, „qronika+”-is responden-

ti Cvens gamocemasTan ambobs, rom yvelaferi es sasacilod

gamoiyureba da mmarTvel elitas urCevs, problemebis xelovnurad

Seqmnas moeSvas da im realuri sirTuleebis mog-

varebaze izrunos, romelic misi da sazogadoebis winaSe dgas.

socialuri krizisia!

_ geTanxmebiT, Tumca xelisufleba

arc am moralur da so-

cialur kriziss aRiarebs.

_ xelisufleba ki ar aRiarebs,

magram faqtia, rom saxezea socialuri,

moraluri krizisi _

fasebi izrdeba, umuSevrobaa da

umjobesia, xelisuflebam am problemebs

mixedos imis nacvlad, rom

xelovnuri barierebi Seqmnas da

mere is „gmirulad gadalaxos”.

mokled, „ocnebas” movuwodeb,

realuri problemebi moagvaros

da am problemebis gadasafarad

xelovnuri problemebis Seqmnas

moeSvas!

_ batono kaxa, saarCevno sis-

temaze atexili aJiotaJic xelovnurad

Seqmnili problema ggoni-

aT?

_ wlebia, proporciul sistemaze

gadasvlas mxars vuWer, radgan

arCevnebis es forma qarTuli

sazogadoebisTvis yvelaze misaRebia.

_ damisabuTeT, proporciuli

arCevnebi Sereuls an Tundac mxolod

maJoritaruls riT sjo-

bia?

_ pirdapir vambob: axla parlamentSi

sazogadoebis xma ar ismis!

yovel SemTxvevaSi, im fenebs, romlebic

politikaSi aqtiurad arian

CarTulebi, parlamentSi warmomadgenlebi

ar hyavT!

amasac Tavi rom davaneboT, demokratiis

ganviTarebisTvis uke-

Tesi iqneba, rom parlamentSi rac

SeiZleba, meti partia iyos da es

banaluri naTqvamia.

yvelaze mTavari ki isaa, rom

proporciuli arCevnebi partiebis

ganviTarebisTvisaa aucilebeli.

amitom ukeTesi iqneboda, rom

2020 wels arCevnebi proporciuli

wesiT Catarebuliyo.

zogadad, proporciuli sistema

imis saSualebas iZleva, rom Zalaufleba

erTi partiis xelSi ar

iyos. qarTuli sazogadoeba imis

Rirsia, rom mis yvela fenas parlamentSi

warmomadgeneli hyavdes,

anu sakanonmdeblo organoSi xalxis

xma ismodes, mravalpartiuloba

iyos da Zalaufleba mxolod

erT partias ar hqondes!

imis mtkiceba, rom proporciuli

arCevnebi areulobas gamoiwvevs,

xelovnuria. normaluri sazogadoeba

proporciuli sistemis

safuZvelze koaliciur mTavrobas

Seqmnis, rac qveynis ganviTarebisTvis

kargi iqneba. samwuxaroa,

rom amis gakeTeba „qarTulma ocnebam”

ver moaxerxa.

_ batono kaxa, am „proporci-

ul bakqanalias” garedan adevnebT

Tvals. hoda, sainteresoa, Tqveni

azriT, ra moxda, anu „ocneba”

kaxa miqaia:

`saqarTveloSi

`demiSizacia~

didi xania,

damTavrebulia

da yvelaferi,

rac axla xdeba,

xelovnuria!~

mxolod saqarTvelos mosaxleobas

ki ar dahpirda, aramed prezident

zurabiSvils gaeros tri-

bunidanac aTqmevina, ai, 2020-dan

proporciul sistemaze gadavdi-

var da es demokratiis kuTxiT gadadgmuli

udidesi nabijiao, Tum-

ca ramdenime e. w. amboxebulma

deputatma yvelaferi Tavdayira

daayena. iziarebT sxva opozicio-

nerebis mosazrebas, rom yve-

laferi es Tavidanve ivaniSvilis

speqtakli iyo?

_ imis mtkicebas ar daviwyeb,

ivaniSvilma gaiTamaSa Tu ara. modiT,

faqtebiT visaubroT.

_ keTili, visaubroT.

_ gavixsenoT, vin aumxedrda

ivaniSvils _ daCi... ra gvaria, ar

maxsovs.

_ beraia.

_ diax, aseve merab qvaraia, WuWe

WuWaia da viRacebi.

_ „WuWe WuWaia” e. w. amboxebu-

li deputatebisTvis mSvenieri

sinonimia!

_ Zneli dasajerebelia, rom

biZina ivaniSvils da, zogdad, „ocnebis”

umravlesobas maJoritarebi

aumxedrdnen.

_ Zneli dasajarebeli rato-

maa? cxovrebaSi xom yvelaferi

xdeba?

_ diax, magram faqti faqtad

rCeba _ „ocnebam” Tavisi sityvebi

ukan waiRo.

_ davuSvaT, rom ivaniSvils

aravin amxedrebia, magram sakiTx-

avia, „ocnebis” Tavmjdomare, Tav-

is droze, ram an vin aiZula, rom

proporciul sistemaze gadasvlis

iniciativa-dapirebiT gamo-

suliyo?

_ „ocnebaSi” Sida politikuri

dapirispirebebi axali ar aris.

_ anu?

_ yvelaferi es, marTlac, sae-

Wvoa, magram, albaT, gaxsovT, miSa

saakaSvilis dros „nacionaluri

moZraoba” rogori monoliTuric

iyo.

_ diax, maxsovs, Tumca Sida om-

ebi „nacebisTvisac” ar iyo ucxo.

_ SeiZleba, magram „qarTuli

ocneba” „nacmoZraobasaviT” monoliTuri

araa, rac yvelaferSi

etyoba. aqedan gamomdinare, yvelaferi,

rac moxda, SesaZloa, Sida

procesebis brali iyos, magram gi-

TxariT da kidev vimeoreb: Znelad

`nino burjanaZis kremlSi viziti CemTvis

usiamovnoa. yovelTvis uxerxuloba mqonda,

roca is moskovSi dadioda da Zalian mikvirs,

am uxerxulobas TviTon ar ganicdis? ise,

burjanaZe kremlSi axla rom wavida, ar

mikvirs da arc is gamikvirdeba, magaliTad,

vaSaZec rom wavides~

dasajerebelia, rom yvelaferi da-

Ci beraias, merab qvaraias Tu viRac

varaias xuSturebze yofiliyo

damokidebuli. miT umetes, rom

maTi argumentacia, ubralod, sasaciloa.

_ geTanxmebiT, rom magaliTad,

beraias, romelsac sami welia, xma

ar amouRia, proporciuli siste-

mis kanonproeqtis winaaRmdeg

damoukideblad gaelaSqra, magram

batono kaxa, sxva ram gkiTxeT, anu

Tu yvelaferi Tavidanve speqtakli

iyo, ivaniSvilma zemoxsenebu-

li dapireba ratom gasca?

_ Tavis droze ivaniSvils am

dapirebis gacema 20 ivnisis movlenebma

aiZula, Tanac es dapireba

ivaniSvilis mxridan swori gadawyvetileba

iyo. axla ki krizisi am

sityvis ukan waRebam Seqmna. vnaxoT,

procesebi rogor ganviTardeba,

Tumca erTi ram aRsaniSnavia.

_ ra?

_ mxolod xelisufleba ki ara,

opoziciac sasacilod gamoiyureba!

_ ratom?

_ zogierTi ambobs, roca Secvla

arCevnebiT ar SeiZleba, xelisufleba

unda davamxoTo, magram

ar mgonia, rom opozicias

amis Zala hqondes.

_ „ZalaSi” ras gulisxmobT?

_ jer erTi, kidev erTi revolucia

da damxoba qveyanas ukan

daswevs, es katastrofa iqneba da

Zalian mZime SedegiT dasruldeba!

meorec, opoziciis mxridan imis

utrireba, ai, xeliuflebas davamxobo,

vimeoreb, Zalian sasaciloa!

_ erT-erTi mTavari „amboxebu-

li” „meocnebe” dimitri xundaZea,

romelic wina cxovrebaSi ivaniSvilis

piradi eqimi iyo. igi acxa-

debs, qveynisTvis ukeTesi iqneba,

rom mTlianad maJoritarul sistemaze

gadavideT da amis dasamt-

kiceblad xalxSi gaval da 200 aT-

as xelmoweras Sevagrovebo. ba-

tono kaxa, xundaZisa da sxva „meo-

cnebeebisgan” gansxvavebiT, rog-

orc vici, xalxTan Tqven didi

xania, ia, „gasuli” xarT. hoda, rogoria

mosaxleobis ganwyoba _ proporciuli

arCevnebi unda, Sereu-

li Tu mTlianad maJoritaruli?

_ simarTle rom vTqvaT, xalxs

saerTod ar ainteresebs, arCevnebi

proporciulad Catardeba, ma-

10 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


liderSifs kontraqciebis mowyobas urCevs!~

Joritarulad Tu Sereuli sistemiT.

_ aba, xalxs ra ainteresebs?

_ mosaxleobas socialuri

problemebi _ umuSevroba awuxebs.

diax, xalxi gausaZlis pirobebSia

da am problemebis mogvareba ainteresebs

da ara _ is, arCevnebi

rogor Catardeba.

sazogadoeba xelisuflebisa da

biZina ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg rom

wavides, anu iseTi muxti, romli-

Tac opozicias xelisuflebis

Secvla SeuZlia, ar arsebobs.

_ ambobT, xalxi gausaZlis

pirobebSiao. hoda, muxti, romel-

ic xelisuflebas Secvlis, ratom

ar arsebobs?

_ imitom ar arsebobs, rom arCevnebis

Tema sazogadoebisTvis

problemuri araa. amitomac vfiqrob,

rom yvelaferi es xelovnurad

Seqmnili protesti da krizisia.

ise, momavali gviCvenebs, am

xelovnuri krizisidan opozicia

ras miiRebs da xelisufleba _ ras.

_ Tqveni prognoziT, opozicia

ras miiRebs da xelisufleba _

ras?

_ ar vici, 2020 wlamde ra moxdeba,

magram axlandeli mocemulobiT,

ivaniSvils arCevnebSi gamarjveba

SeuZlia, Tumca 2020 wlamde

erTi welia. erTi weli Zalian

didi droa da am xnis ganmavloba-

Si, SeiZleba, raRacebi moxdes,

Tumca vimeoreb: dRevandeli monacemebiT,

ivaniSvils SeuZlia,

opozicia arCevnebSi daamarcxos!

_ batono kaxa, mgoni, pirveli

adamiani xarT, romelic amas ambobT.

arada, Zneli dasajerebe-

lia, rom gaWirvebuli xalxi isev

ivaniSvilis gverdiT dadges.

_ saqme isaa, rom mosaxleobas

opoziciis imedi ar aqvs.

_ ratom ar aqvs?

_ ubedureba isaa, rom mosaxleobis

mxridan pretenziebi mxolod

xelisuflebis ki ara, opoziciis

mimarTac arsebobs, anu xalxi opoziciaSi

im Zalas ver xedavs, romelsac

SeiZleba, endos da ivaniSvilis

dasamarcxeblad gahyves. ai,

problema swored es aris.

Tqveni Tqmisa ar iyos, partiis

Tavmjdomareebisgan gansxvavebiT,

xalxTan intensiuri kontaqti

maqvs da mosaxleobis ganwyoba ase-

Tia _ ki batono, ivaniSvili ar

varga, am xelisuflebam danapirebi

ver Seasrula da ekonomikursocialuri

yofa gausaZlisi gaxda,

magram am problemebis mogvareba

opozicias SeuZlia? mokled,

amomrCevlis umravlesoba ambobs,

rom am problemebis mogvareba arc

opozicias SeuZlia.

_ batono kaxa, neba momeciT, ar

dageTanxmoT, radgan gasul wels,

saprezidento arCevnebSi, opoz-

iciis kandidats lamis 900 aTasma

adamianma misca xma da es arafers

niSnavs?

_ geTanxmebiT, magram opoziciam

900 aTasi xma erTi wlis win

miiRo, magram mTavaria, axla ramdens

miiRebs, anu arCevnebs rogor

Sexvdeba da im dros, roca arCevnebi

Catardeba, xalxSi rogori

ganwyoba iqneba.

mokled, arc xelisufleba da

arc opozicia imiT ar unda utrirebdes,

ramdeni miiRo. mTavaria,

`xelisufleba ki ar aRiarebs, magram faqtia, rom saxezea socialuri,

moraluri krizisi - fasebi izrdeba, umuSevrobaa da umjobesia,

xelisuflebam am problemebs mixedos imis nacvlad, rom xelovnuri

barierebi Seqmnas da mere is `gmirulad gadalaxos~

awi ramdens miiRebs.

saerTod, adamianebis ganwyobebi

maTi socialur-ekonomikuri

problemebis mixedviT icvleba da

amitom warsuliT apelireba

arafers niSnavs.

_ Tqvens msjelobaSi logika,

cxadia, aris da raki ambobT, yvelaferi

is, rac axla xdeba, Tama-

Siao, gamoricxavT, rom xelisu-

flebasa da opoziciis garkveul

frTas Soris faruli komunika-

cia arsebobdes?

_ aseT SeTqmulebebsa da qveda

dinebebs skeptikurad vuyureb,

Tumca gamoricxuli araferia, magram

mainc ar mgonia, rom es procesi

ivaniSvilTan garigebasa da

raRac TamaSebs emsaxurebodes.

faqti erTia: sazogadoebas Zalian

uWirs, xelisufleba da opoziciac

sul sxva problemebze saubrobs.

es, pirvel rigSi, ra Tqma unda,

xelisuflebis pasuxismgeblobaa,

magram sazogadoeba mixeil

saakaSvils an opoziciis sxva romelime

liders biZina ivaniSvilis

dasamxobad ar gahyveba, Tumca vimeoreb:

ar vici, erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi

ra moxdeba. mokled, Sansi

Tanabaria.

_ ra amis pasuxia, batono kaxa

da, ramdenime wlis win „daicavi

saqarTvelom” axali politikuri

sicocxle im motiviT da mizniT

daiwyo, rom qveyana „nacionalebisganac”

daecva da _ „qocebisga-

nac”. marTalia, es ganaxlebuli

moZraoba maleve datoveT, magram

mainc gkiTxavT: daviT maRraZe

ratom ar Cans, saqarTvelos dac-

va aRar sWirdeba?

_ Cemma yofilma gundma, romelic

saqarTvelos Zalian mZime

pirobebSi icavda, Tavisi misia ma-

Sin Seasrula _ „daicavi saqarTvelo”

mixeil saakaSvilis tiraniis

winaaRmdeg mTavari damrtymeli

Zala iyo, rasac veravin, maT Soris,

Cveni mowinaaRmdegeebic ver uaryofen.

mokled, „daicavi saqarTvelos”

Tavisi misia Zalian mZime

`xelisuflebis mizani isaa, rom mixeil

saakaSvili da, saerTod, `nacionaluri

moZraoba~ mTavar opoziciur Zalad

warmoaCinos da Sesabamisad, arCevnebs isev am

lozungiT - àra miSas~ - Sexvdes! arada, miSa

ar arsebobs, damTavrebulia! mokled, Tu

xelisuflebas unda, rom aqcenti miSaze

gaakeTos, ki batono, magram miSa dasrulebulia

da `demiSizaciac~ xelovnuri procesia!~

pirobebSi aqvs Sesrulebuli!

_ es gavige, magram sxva ram

gkiTxeT, anu ganaxlebuli „da-

icavi saqarTvelo” ratom arsad

Cans?

_ ar minda, imaze vilaparako,

momavalSi ra iqneba, magram me da

Cemma megobrebma Cveni misia SevasruleT,

rac Zalian mware da mtkivneuli

iyo.

_ Tu misia amowuruli hqonda,

aba, „daicavi saqarTvelo” ratom-

Ra ganaxlda?

_ ganaxlda, magram vnaxoT, movlenebi

rogor gagrZeldeba.

vimeoreb: Cven saqarTvelos interesebs

im dros vicavdiT da

mixeil saakaSvilis tiranias im

dros vebrZodiT, roca sxvebi buCqebSi

imalebodnen.

_ momiteveT, magram meCveneba,

rom kiTxvaze pirdapiri pasuxis

gacemas Tavs aridebT.

_ ratom varideb? axla aseTi

situaciaa da vnaxoT, momavalSi ra

iqneba. saerTod, me da Cemi megobrebi,

roca qveyanas uWirs, yovel-

Tvis brZolis wina xazze vdgavarT

xolme. gagaxsenebT 2011 wlis 26

maiss _ wina xazze Cven, „daicavi

saqarTvelo” videqiT da maSin yvelaze

meti Cven mogvxvda. amas ar

vutrireb da Tu vinmes pretenzia

aqvs, axla ratom ara, vimeoreb:

qveynis dasacavad da imisTvis sabrZolvelad

mzad varT, rom

saqarTvelo, rogorc saxelmwifo,

sabolood Camoyalibdes da evropul

qveyanaTa TanamegobrobaSi

Rirseuli adgili daikavos!

_ sxvaTa Soris, nino burjan-

aZe saarCevno sistemis garSemo

Seqmnili im sakoordinacio sab-

Wos wevria, sadac „nacionaluri

moZraobis” warmomadgenlebic ar-

ian. batono kaxa, burjanaZisa da

saakaSvilis akaSvilis xalxis erT magida-

sTan dajdomas rogor afasebT?

_ nino burjanaZis kremlSi viziti

CemTvis usiamovnoa. yovelTvis

uxerxuloba mqonda, roca is moskovSi

dadioda da Zalian mikvirs,

am uxerxulobas TviTon ar ganicdis?

ise, burjanaZe kremlSi axla

rom wavida, ar mikvirs da arc is

gamikvirdeba, magaliTad, vaSaZec

rom wavides.

_ ratom ar gagikvirdebaT?

_ opoziciaSi iseTi ambavia, rom

zogi kremlSi darbis, zogi _ vaSingtonSi,

zogi _ briuselSi da

iakutiaSi. Tundac proporciuli

arCevnebis irgvliv opoziciis gaerTianeba

Zalian ekleqturia da,

samwuxarod, sasacilod gamoiyureba.

roca aq politikuri krizisia

da am dros burjanaZe moskovSi

midis, es araswori nabijia,

magram imaze ver vilaparakeb, iq

Sexvedrebi visTan hqonda.

_ batono kaxa, burjanaZis

moskovSi vizitis ki ara, imis Se-

faseba gTxoveT, „nacebi” da maTi

yofili mowinaaRmdegeebi erT

magidasTan rom sxedan.

_ eseni erTad imitom sxedan,

rom proporciuli arCevnebi Catardes,

magram es gaerTianeba mainc

xelovnurad mimaCnia. figuralurad

rom vTqvaT, kremlisa da vaSingtonis

erTad brZola proporciuli

arCevnebisTvis da ivaniSvilTan

dapirispireba, kidev vambob,

cota sasaciloa! yovel SemTxvevaSi,

amis adamianebs ar sjeraT

da Rimils iwvevs!

ratom ver akeTebs opozicia

Zlier aqciebs da ratom ar dgas

xalxi opoziciasTan? gaixseneT,

Cvens an Tundac biZina ivaniSvilis

opoziciaSi yofnis dros sazogadoeba

xelisuflebas rogor upirispirdeboda.

opozicias, romelic

leiboristebis ofisSi molaparakebis

magidasTan zis, quCaSi, yvelaze

meti, 10 aTasi adamianis gamoyvana

SeuZlia. ai, problema swored

esaa. sxvaTa Soris, darbevas ar

vamarTleb, miT umetes, 20 ivniss

_ es Zalian mZime sanaxavi iyo, magram

faqti erTia: amdeni protestisa

da gaerTianebis Semdegac generlebi

ujarod darCnen!

_ anu?

_ es ujaro generlebis brZolaa.

ujaro generlebi ki oms ver

moigeben!

_ imis gamo, rom xelisufleba

kontraqciebs marTavs, opozicia

da aseve eqspertebis nawili Sesa-

Zlo samoqalaqo dapirispirebaze

saubrobs. aseTi dapirispirebis

suni Tqvenc gcemT, batono kaxa?

_ ara, es samoqalaqo dapirispirebis

suni araa. aseTi kontraqciebiT

samoqalaqo dapirispireba

ar moxdeba. „ocnebaSi”

aris garkveuli jgufi, romelsac

„briyvebis jgufs” veZaxi da am kontraqciebs

liderSifs es jgufi

sTavazobs.

_ am jgufis wevrebi vin arian?

_ ar minda, axla frCxilebi

gavxsna, magram am jgufs hgonia,

rom am kontraqciebiT rame moxdeba

da opozicia gaCerdeba, magram

esec sasaciloa! ai, magaliTad,

CemTan, zugdidSi, roca „ocnebis”

aqtivistebi „nacionalebs” miuvardnen,

es Zalian sasacilod gamoiyureboda.

mokled, xelisuflebas kidev

erTxel vurCev: im problemebs

mixedos, romlis winaSec Tvi-

Tonac dgas da _ sazogadoebac.

rac Seexeba opozicias, minda,

igi ufro mobiluri, azriani da

Sekruli iyos, radgan 2020-Si saqarTveloSi

proporciuli arCevnebi

Catardes. yovel SemTxvevaSi, me

amis momxre var.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

11


`quTaisSi `demiSizacias~ loTebi,

am adamians qarTul politika-

giorgi abaSiZe

Si badali ar hyavs, anu yvela po-

litikur process performa

manse

nse-

biT exmaureba da, Sesabamisad, misi yvela an TiTqmis yvela aqt-

ivoba sruliad sazogadoebam zepirad icis. ase, magaliTad, iyo

dro, roca mTel saqarTvelos misi frTiani fraza ekera pirze:

„droSa ver dakiden”. amas winaT ki, „ocnebas” _ arc meti, arc

naklebi _ tualetis qaRaldi da vazelini gaugzavna.

yvelaferi ki ase daiwyo: erT

mSvenier dRes, partia „Tavisufali

saqarTvelos” TanaTavmjdomare

quTaisSi, wminda ninos qu-

Caze mdebare fostis filialTan

mivida da... „qarTuli ocnebis”

centraluri ofisis misamarTze

„selpaki” da vazelini gaagzavna.

„kargad uyurebT axla, rac

xdeba qveyanaSi. „qarTuli ocnebis”

wevrebisgan mimdinareobs bi-

Zinas ukanalis gamowmenda. uxeSad

akeTeben amas, amitom movedi ager,

fostaSi da „selpakis” tualetis

qaRaldebs vugzavni, rom

ufro rbilad da nazad gamowmindon.

amasTan, movitane vazelinebic.

gamoTavisuflebuli adgilebi

xom aris iq, amitom vugzavni vazelinebs

msurvelebs, vinc axla

apirebs ukanalSi mokalaTebas.

meti araferi. es aris dRevandeli

situaciis iumoriT gadmocema”,

_ ganacxada gogi wulaiam.

amis mere ki rac moxda namdvilad

dagSokavT, anu wulaias

saCuqari adresatamde mivida da,

rogorc „qronika+~-ma gaarkvia,

mmarTveli gundis centraluri

ofisidan performansis avtors

daurekes da hkiTxes, _ es „saCuqrebi”,

konkretulad, vis gadavceTo?

ra pasuxi gasca am kiTxvis avtors

wulaiam? _ amas winamdebare

interviudan SeityobT.

ise, gafrTxilebT, interviu,

romelic „qronika+~-ma qarTuli

politikis yvelaze koloritul

warmomadgenelTan Cawera, uwmawur

sityvebs Seicavs, amitom

Tu bilwsityvaobaze alergia

gaqvT, girCevT, es masala ar waikiTxoT!

aseve kargi iqneba, Tu

SeecdebiT da Cveni gamocemis

dRevandel nomers arasrulwlovnebs

moaridebT!

mokled, ra anekdotiT gamoexmaura

2008 wels mixeil saakaS-

vilis prezidentad meore vadiT

arCevas? rodis daasrula „demi-

Sizacia”? ratom eZaxis „ocnebas”

CerCets? da, saerTod, ratom

unda proporciuli arCevnebi? _

„qronika+” gogi wulaias esau-

bra.

da kidev erTi aucilebeli

ganmarteba: gogi wulaias mTa-

vari, ase vTqvaT, fiSka, misi

quTaisuri dialeqtia. Sesabamis-

ad, SevecadeT, Cveni saubari

TiTqmis stenografiuli si-

zustiT gadmogveca, anu interviuSi

kuTxuri dialeqti, umete-

sad, datovebulia:

_ batono gogi, Tqveni partia,

e. i., „Tavisufali saqarTvelo”,

opoziciis aqciebs SeuerTda.

vici, opozicia quCaSi ratomacaa

gasuli, magram kidev erTxel

rom damizustoT: ras iTxovT?

_ modiT, kiTxvaSi cota cvlileba

SevitanoT.

_ ra cvlileba unda Sevitan-

oT an ratom?

_ Cven mxolod da mxolod im

moTxovnas SevuerTdiT, rom

proporciuli da samarTliani

arCevnebi Catardes, riTac arc

erT partias ar miecema saSualeba,

rom umravlesoba hqondes. ise,

Zalian mikvirs, „nacebi” proporciulisTvis

ratom ibrZvian.

_ ratom ar unda ibrZolon?

_ arsebuli saarCevno sistemiT

ufro meti Sansi aqvT, rom

xelisuflebaSi erTpirovnulad

movidnen, magram ibrZvian _ Setopen

da, Cemi azriT, ukan ver

gamodian, Torem is, ris datovebasac

biZina apirebs, ufro „nacebs”

awyobT.

mokled, Cven mxolod da mxolod

erT moTxovnas SevuerTdiT

_ Catardes samarTliani,

proporciuli da demokratiuli

arCevnebi, romelic arc erT partias

ar miscems saSualebas, rom

dominanti iyos da gadawyvetilebebi

erTpirovnulad miiRos.

_ proporciuli sistemiT

Catarebul arCevnebSi e. w. pat-

ara partiebs ra Sansi gaqvT?

_ bevri axsna rom ar daviwyo,

kaxa kukavam saprezidento arCevnebSi

procent-naxevari aiRo.

hoda, bunebrivi barieris SemTxvevaSi,

parlamentSi Sesasvlelad

0,6 an 0,7 procentia saWiro. ase

rom, Tu procent-naxevarze mets

ver avwevT, parlamentSi, yvelaze

mcire, ori kaciT SevdivarT.

_ ra azri aqvs, rom partias

parlamentSi ori kaci hyavdes?

_ or kacs pirobiTad vambob,

Torem metic SeiZleba, Tumca

azri or kacsac aqvs imitom, rom

aseTi partia xuTi-eqvsi Tu iqneba,

moilaparakebs, fraqcias gaakeTebs

da yvela gadawyvetilebaze

eqneba gavlena, maT Soris, biujetis

damtkicebazec, rac

qveyanaSi yvelaze mTavaria da

aseve mTavrobis damtkicebaze.

mokled, parlamentSi umravlesobiT

aravin iqneboda da ori,

sami Tu xuTkaciani partia yvelas

dasWirdeboda.

_ es gasagebia, magram didi

partiebi _ „ocneba” da igive „nacionaluri

moZraobac”, proporciulis

SemTxvevaSi, parla-

mentSi met deputats gaiyvanen

da Tqven ratomRa dasWirdebiT?

_ ki gaiyvanen _ magis iluzia

aravis aqvs, rom „nacebi” da Tu

gind „ocneba” Cvenze mets ver

gaiyvans, magram iseTi umravlesobiT

ar iqneba, rom misTvis

gogi wulaia:

ìq mTavari

ganmsazRvreli

da mTavari

gebelsic

ivaniSvilia!~

saWiro sakiTxebi gadawyvitos,

anu rac unda bevrni iyvnen, imdeni

ar iqnebian, rom gadawyvetileba

Cven gareSe miiRon. ai, esaa

mTavari, Torem razea saubari,

Cvenze meti iqnebian.

_ mocemuloba aseTia: xe-

lisufleba daTmobaze ar modis,

opozicia ki aqcias aqciaze mar-

Tavs. risi imedi gaqvT?

_ uimedod egeni iyvnen! Cveni

sakuTari gamocdilebis imedi

gvaqvs, Tan mTavroba, romelic

jiqdeba da opozicias angariSs

ar uwevs, xelisuflebidan midis.

„nacionalebma” amgenze meti

arCevnebis gayalbeba icodnen,

magram gajiqdnen da kiseri weitexes.

axlac ase iqneba!

_ „nacionalebi” arCevnebiT

wavidnen, anu maT arCevnebSi dam-

arcxeba aRiares.

_ gasagebia, rom isini arCevnebis

gziT wavidnen da esenic wavlian

arCevnebis gziT. amgens imdeni

„Jilka”, arc imdeni Tavi da

arc imdeni politikis codna

aqven, rac „nacebs” hqondaT da,

sxvaTa Soris, arc imdeni sadizmi

aqven, rac imgens hqondaT, magram

mainc waagen. esenic waageben. amitom

Wkvianurs izamen, Tu axla

daTmoben da proporciuls Caatareben.

es niSnavs, rom xelisuflebaSi

koaliciis mxriv mainc

iqnebian, magram Tu gajiqdebian,

maSin waageben da ise daiSlebian,

rogorc „moqkavSiri” daiSala! es

„qarTuli ocneba” iseTive amorfulia,

rogorc „moqkavSiri” iyo.

hoda, rogorc „moqalaqeTa kavSiri”

gaqra qarTuli politikis

istoriidan, esenic ise gaqrebian!

Tu Wkuas ixmaren, kaixela

`me simarTlis gverdiT vdgavar! `nacionalebma~

rom Tqvan, mze aRmosavleTidan amodiso, me

ra unda vTqva, ara, mze CrdiloeTidan

amodis-Tqva? mTel msoflioSi asea - opozicia

sul marTals laparakobs da aqac, axla asea.

am wuTas opozicia `nacionaluri moZraobaa~

da simarTles laparakobs. Seuferebelia,

roca Zaladobasa da mitingis daSlaze isini

gvelaparakebian, magram simarTles xom

amboben, kaco? amis Tqmis ufleba, ra Tqma

unda, maT ar aqvT, radgan TviTonac Caidines,

magram am simarTles amboben da me ra unda

vqna, arasimarTlis mxare davikavo?~

doziT darCebian.

_ batono gogi, Tavad ambobT,

rom „ocnebas” imxela sadizmi ar

aqvs, ramdenic „nacmoZraobas”

hqondao. hoda, axlandeli

mmarTveli gundi swored amas

ambobs, _ Tavmoyvare opozicia

„nacebis” gverdiT rogor unda

dadges da maTTan erTad Tundac

proporciuli arCevnebi moiTx-

ovoso. amaze ra pasuxi gaqvT?

_ me „nacionalebis” gverdiT

ar vdgavar!

_ aba, vis gverdiT dgaxarT?

_ me simarTlis gverdiT vdgavar!

„nacionalebma” rom Tqvan,

mze aRmosavleTidan amodiso, me

ra unda vTqva, ara, mze CrdiloeTidan

amodis-Tqva? mTel msoflioSi

asea _ opozicia sul mar-

Tals laparakobs da aqac, axla

asea. am wuTas opozicia „nacionaluri

moZraobaa” da simarTles

laparakobs. Seuferebelia, roca

Zaladobasa da mitingis daSlaze

isini gvelaparakebian, magram simarTles

xom amboben, kaco? amis

Tqmis ufleba, ra Tqma unda, maT

ar aqvT, radgan TviTonac Caidines,

magram am simarTles amboben

da me ra unda vqna, arasimarTlis

mxare davikavo?

_ cxadia, arasimarTlis mxar-

es ar unda dadgegT, magram saqarTvelo

danarCeni msoflios-

gan gansxvavdeba. yvelafers ers Tavi

rom davaneboT, mxolod od CvenTan

SeiZleba, xelisuflebam ebam opozicias

mitingi mouwyos da gada-

dgoma mosTxovos. ai, ramdenime

dRis win quTaisSi „demiSizaci-

is” moTxovniT „ocnebis” aqtiv-

istebi quCaSi gamovidnen.

_ mere, me ra vqna, am sisuleleSi,

rasac xelisufleba sCadis,

xom ar avyvebi? amiT „nacionalur

moZraobas” ufro met Sanss

aZlevs, rom isev ise erTpirovnulad

movides da qveyanaSi yvelanairi

politikuri procesi

gaakontrolos!

ai, xom xedavT, ra gamouval

situaciaSi var? _ qveyanaSi politikuri

movlenebi midis da politikosma

pozicia xom unda gamoxatos?

am wagebuli da gabank-

12

12 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


bomJebi da narkomanebi iTxovdnen!~

rotebuli xelisuflebis pozicia

Cemma mterma gamoxatos!

vxatav imas, rac simarTlea!

Cemda samwuxarod, am simarTles

ambobs iseTi dominanti partia,

rogoric „nacionaluri moZraobaa”

da gaugebrobaSi yofna miwevs,

magram me „nacionali” ar var!

rasac „ocneba” akeTebs, rom unda,

yvela gaiyvanos „nacionalur

moZraobaSi”, es iciT, ras hgavs?

_ ras?

_ es hgavs gebelsis sityvebs.

_ gebelsis romel sityvebs?

_ germaniis propagandis ministri

ambobda amnair sityvebs, _

Tu ginda, adamiani wonasworobidan

gamoiyvano, daabrale is,

rac yvelaze metad ezareba da

rasac mTeli cxovreba ebrZvis.

axla, egeni patar-patara

gebelsebi arian!

_ Tqveni dakvirvebiT, „ocneb-

is” mTavari gebelsi vin aris?

_ ivaniSvili!

_ amas ris safuZvelze am-

bobT, batono gogi?

_ axla, aravin dagvimtkicos,

rom vinme Tavisi niWiT da WkuiT

raRacas yviris. iq mTavari ganmsazRvreli

biZina ivaniSvilia da

mTavari gebelsic ivaniSvilia!

_ ra amis pasuxia da, is adamianebi,

vinc quTaisis quCebSi „demiSizaciis”

moTxovniT gamovid-

nen, vin iyvnen?

_ Svilebs vficavar, amgenis

saqcieliT gakvirdebi!

_ ratom?

_ „prosta”, imden sisuleles

amboben.

_ mainc, ra sisuleles am-

boben?

_ biWo, miSas Sen ebrZvi? miSa

ebrZoda proporciul arCevnebs,

Sen axla imas ebrZvi. ai, amnairi

degeneratobis gakeTeba xom ar

SeiZleba?! zustad asea „demi-

Sizacia”. CemTvis „demiSizacia”

2006 wlis merea gakeTebuli, roca

„nacionaluri moZraobidan”

wamovedi. ageni ki „demiSizacias”

axla iwyeben da es xom ugunurebaa!

amnairi ugunuri lozungi

rogor unda Semoagdo?

_ hoda, is adamianebi, vinc

„demiSizacias” axla iTxoven, vin

arian?

_ meriis, aaipi-s TanamSromlebi,

naxevari _ loTebi, naxevari _

„bomJebi”, narkomanebi da a. S. ai,

magia tragedia, roca uyureb,

rom Cveulebrivi moqalaqeebis

gamoyvanis saSualeba ar gaqvs da

amas mainc akeTeb da mainc CerCetob,

amas xom unda mixvde da Tavi

daanebo? mokled, „demiSizacia”

me wlebis win movaxdine da,

Svilebs vficavar, maSin anekdotic

maqvs moyolili.

_ romeli anekdoti?

_ 2008-Si miSa prezidentad

meorejer rom gavida, maSin

movyevi gurulis anekdoti.

_ aba, mec momiyeviT, batono

gogi.

_ guruli Cits Tofs esvris,

ver gaartyams da gafrindeba.

guruli miaZaxebs, _ CemTvis mkvdari

xar da axla, ifrine, ramden-

ratom gaugzavna òcnebas~

tualetis qaRaldi da vazelini

`Tavisufali saqarTvelos~

TanaTavmjdomarem?

ic gindao. maSin televiziiT

vuTxari miSas, Cemi xelidan Sen

xar mkvdari, Cemi xelidan prezidenti

ar xar da Seni dedac-Tqva.

ai, naxeT, biZina ras gvTavazobs.

_ ras?

_ meo ar waval arafriT, sanam

miSa saakaSvils mosvlis Sansi

eqnebao. xom Tqva ase?

_ diax, daaxloebiT, ase Tqva.

_ biWo, me, momwons Tu ara, am

miSas CerCets vuZaxi Tu araCer-

Cets, 400, 500, 600 Tu aRar maxsovs,

ramdeni aTasi adamiani mxars

xom uWers?

_ mere?

_ es adamianebi bunebidan xom

ar gaqrnen.

_ cxadia, ar gaqrnen.

_ arc gaqrebian! hoda, ra unda

vqna me, opoziciam? e. i., biZina

meubneba, viqnebi sul da es amdeni

aTasi adamiani daxoceTo.

biWo, miSa Cemi piradi mteri ki

ar iyo. magasac eg undoda, sul

me unda viyo, Tqveni dedaco. amitomac

vupirispirdebodi da

kidev imitom, rom mitingebs arbevda.

Senc rom igives akeTeb da igives

rom ambob, _ mTeli Cemi jilagi

da modgma _ volskebi, mdinaraZeebi

da TalakvaZeebi unda

iyvnen da erTi, Tqveni dedaco,

amas rom metyvis, gaval quCaSi,

aba, ras vizam? aba, imdeni aTas

adamians ver davxocav, radgan

zogi Cemi biZaSvilia, zogi _ mezobeli

da zogic _ raRaca. amnairi

azri rogor unda mogivides?

_ ise, batono gogi, xom ar

geCvenebaT, rom „ocneba” da „nacionaluri

moZraoba” SeTanxme-

bulad moqmedeben?

_ amas ramdeni xania, vambob _

mag STabeWdileba pirvelive dReebidan

maqvs.

imas namdvilad ar vgulisxmob,

rom sadme kafeSi, yavis smis

dros, biZina da miSa laparakoben,

Tu rogor unda ganaviTaron

movlenebi. isini Sexvedrilebi ar

arian da, ra Tqma unda, ar moulaparakebiaT

_ erTmaneTi ezizRebaT,

magram orivem kargad

icis, rom maTi interesebisTvis

aseTi situacia jobs.

hoda, igic iqidan CerCetobs

da Zabavs, me varo ager da Cemi

nabadio, meo, kaco, imdeni amomrCeveli

myavso, auo da uo.

egia da aqedan CerCetobs da

Zabavs.

mokled, ar vambob, rom meilaparaken,

mara magdeni alRo da

intuicia ki aqven, rom mixvden,

maTTvis ra jobia!

_ ai, am situaciaSi, batono

gogi, rigiTma adamianebma ra

unda gavakToT, rogor unda

moviqceT?

_ Cveulebrivma adamianebma is

unda gavakeToT, rogori

arCevnebic unda Catardes, mjera,

rom eseni daTmoben.

_ ra iciT, rom daTmoben?

_ dasavleTi nel-nela mkacr

gancxadebebs akeTebs. hoda, Cveulebrivi

adamianebi unda mivideT.

_ sad unda mivideT?

_ cisartyelas mravali feri

aqvs.

_ ukacravad, cisartyela ra

SuaSia?

_ saerTod, cxovreba erT da

orfervani ar aris.

_ ver vxvdebi, saubari saiT-

ken migyavT.

_ aTobiT partia arsebobs.

_ mere?

_ mokled, xalxi maincdamainc

„nacebiT” da „ocnebiT” ar unda

gadairios. orives Tavisi amomrCeveli

eyoleba, magram imdeni

ar unda iyvnen, rom parlamentSi

dominanti gaxadon, anu parlamentSi

mravali partia unda Sevides,

romelic situacias, ase Tu ise,

daabalansebs da qveyanas ganvi-

Tarebis saSualebas miscems da

ori partiis Widaobis marazmidan

amoiyvans!

_ ise, batono gogi, amas winaT

„ocnebas”, Tu ar meSleba, „pam-

persebi” gaugzavneT.

_ ara, pampersi ki ara, tualetis

qaRaldi „selpaki” da vazelini

gavugzavne.

_ ratom?

_ am wuTas mTeli „qarTuli

ocneba” erT rames akeTebs.

_ ras?

_ biZinas Caj...ul ukanals

wmends!

_ ui, deda!

_ da TviTon gahyvirian, revolucionerebi

varTo.

xundaZe gamovida, metranaxevriani

kaci roa „priJokSi”, Cemi

ar iyos _ magasTan SedarebiT ki

var devgmiri, magram mainc. hoda,

iparWyeba iqana.

es aris biZinas ukanalis gamowmenda

da SigniT SeZroma!

_ batono gogi, Zalian bil-

wsityvaobT!

_ hoda, „selpaki” gavugzavne,

msubuqad, nazad gamowmindeT

saTuTi takunebi-Tqva.

kidev vazelinic gavugzavne _

biZinas ukanalSi mravali „sastavi”

xom apirebs SeZromas. hoda,

vazelini gavugzavne, rom es SeZroma

mtkivneuli ar iyos!

_ Tqveni gzavnili daniS-

nulebis adgilamde mivida?

_ ki, sxvaTa Soris.

_ ra iciT?

_ Svilebs vficavar, iqidan

werili mogvivida, _ vis gadavce-

To? me vuTxari, _ deirigeT sul

yvelam-Tqva.

_ ra iciT, rom „saCuqari”

adresatamde mivida?

_ dagvireken.

_ saidan?

_ „selpaki” da vazelini fostiT

gavagzavne. am emociaSi Cemi

mowmoba manqanaSi damrCenia.

_ ra mowmoba?

_ piradobis. hoda, Cemi partiis

TanamSromlis mowmobiT gavagzavne

da mas daurekes ofisidan,

_ vis gadavceTo? amanac upasuxa,

_ gaxseniT da saTiTaod dourigeTo.

Tu ar gjeraT, SegiZliaT,

„ocnebis” ofisSi gadaamowmoT!

zogadad, yvelafers, rasac

vakeTeb, marTla vakeTeb!

_ e. i., „ocnebam” Tqveni saCu-

qari, ase vTqvaT, „Seiwera”, ara?

_ diax, diax.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

13


xalxisa da ivaniSvilis brZolaSi

„ar vici, dasavleTma kidev ra

giorgi abaSiZe

SeiZleba, gaakeTos _ gancxade-

bebSi simkacre imatebs, magram

Cveni problemebis mosagvareblad sanam finansuri sanqciebis

imedad viqnebiT, araferi gveSveleba! msofliom unda dain-

axos, rom Cveni qveynis problemebs Cven TviTon vagvarebT!

SeveguoT imas, rom Cveni mkvdari ayrolebamde Cvenve unda

mivabaroT miwas!” _ ase exmaureba qveyanaSi Seqmnil poli-

tikur kriziss gaerTianebuli opoziciis erT-erTi lideri,

„erovnul-demokratiuli partiis” Tavmjdomare, baCuki qardava,

romlis SefasebiTac, is, rac axla xdeba, TavisuflebisTvis

brZolaa, brZola, romelic mmarTveli gundis lider-

ma, anu qveynis faqtobrivma mmarTvelma, biZina ivaniSvilma,

sakuTar xalxs gamoucxada. qardava darwmunebulia, rom am

brZolaSi aucileblad xalxi gaimarjvebs.

sxvaTa Soris, proporciuli

sistemis kanonproeqtis Cagdebis

Semdeg, TbilisSi saprotesto

aqciebi rom daiwyo da parlamen-

tis win karvebi gaiSala, yvelaze

didi karavi edp-m gaSala, Tumca,

mogexsenebaT, am karvebs ra bedic

ewia _ xelisuflebam mSvidobian

protestantebs

„robokopebi”

daupirispira da sakanonmdeblo

organos mimdebare teritoria

specrazmiT gawminda. Sesabamisad,

edepelebis karavic im wmendas

Seewira, Tumca, sxva opoziciis

msgavsad, baCuki qardavas gunds

brZolaze xeli ar auRia da 17

noembris mere gamarTul sajaro

uwyebebis „daboqlomebisa” Tu

sxva tipis saprotesto aqciebSi

kvlavindeburad

aqtiuradaa

CarTuli.

mokled, ra aZlevs mravalwliani

gamocdilebis mqone politi-

koss imis Tqmis safuZvels, rom

zemoxsenebuli brZola aucileblad

xalxis gamarjvebiT das-

ruldeba da, saerTod, rogor

moiqceva opozicia im SemTxveva-

Si, Tu xelisufleba vadamdel sa-

parlamento arCevnebs daniSnavs

da am arCevnebis Catarebas arse-

buli saarCevno, e. i., Sereuli

sistemiT daapirebs?

am da sxva Temebze „qronika+~

baCuki qardavas esaubra:

_ baCuki, rogor xar, saqmeebi

rogor midis?

_ kargad var da saqmeebic kargad

midis.

_ xelisufleba ukan ar ixevs.

ager, dimitri xundaZe ki xelmowerebis

Sesagroveblad xalxSi ga-

dis da irwmuneba, 2024 wlidan

mTlianad maJoritarul saarCe-

vno sistemaze unda gadavideTo.

hoda, yvelaferi es saqmis kargad

wasvla rogoraa?

_ xelisuflebas qveynis SigniT

da gareT „gadamgdebis” saxeli

aqvs, amasTan, xelisufleba xalxis

protests „robokopebiT” upirispirdeba

da kontraqciebs iyenebs.

es Zalauflebis SenarCunebis bolo

fazaa, anu „ocnebis” xelisuflebaSi

yofnas didi perspeqtiva

ar aqvs da esaa dRevandeli mocemuloba!

zogadad, proporciuli

an germanuli modeli, romelic

opoziciam ivaniSvils SesTavaza,

samarTliani arCevnebis Catarebis

Sansi da saSualebaa, magram ivaniSvils

xelisuflebis uzurpacia

unda. Cveni, anu opoziciis moTxovna

samarTliania da amitom am

brZolaSi ivaniSvili aucileblad

damarcxdeba!

ise, ivaniSvilma icis, rom misi

reitingi, praqtikulad, ganulebulia

da xelisuflebaSi darCenis

perspeqtiva ar gaaCnia, magram xelisufleba

ar eTmoba da amitom

yvelaferze midis, Tumca giTxariT

da kidev geubnebiT, rom ivaniSvili

xelisuflebas ver Seinar-

Cunebs!

_ SeiZleba, asecaa, magram „oc-

nebas” sxva argumenti aqvs. kerZod

kobaxiZe da mmarTveli gundis

sxva odiozuri saxeebi acxadeben,

quCaSi 200-mde „nacionali” dgaso.

baCuki, gulwrfelebi viyoT da

vTqvaT, rom opoziciam xalxis ma-

sobrivi ayolieba ver SeZlo.

_ „masobrivi ayolieba” ras niSnavs?

_ „masobrivi ayolieba” imas

niSnavs, rom protests saerTosaxalxo

saxe ar aqvs, anu „dabo-

qlomebisa” Tu sxva saxis aqciebSi

umetesad opoziciuri partiebis

aqtivistebi monawileoben.

_ 10-15 da 20-aTasiani mitingebi

Catarda, amas garda, axalgazrdebi

Tbilissa da sxva qalaqebSi

protests permanentulad gamoxataven.

swored am axalgazrdebis

damsaxurebaa, rom xelisufleba,

Tavisi aRmasrulebeli uwyebebiTa

Tu maJoritarebianad, Camoqceulia.

diax, es mocemulobaa da

Tu ivaniSvili „dronebiT” Tavebis

daTvlas gaagrZelebs, damerwmuneT,

Zalian bevr Tavs daiTvlis,

Tumca SesaZloa, daTvla veRarc

moaswros!

_ vnaxoT, ra moxdeba, Tan naTqvamia,

wiwilebs Semodgomaze iTv-

liano. Semodgomamde ki didi

droa. mokled, ivaniSvili, rogorc

TviTon ambobs, „patara triukebs”

akeTebs xolme. Sesabamis-

ad, opozicia mzadaa, „ocnebis”

liderma rame axali „triukis”,

anu faqtis winaSe ar daayenos,

vTqvaT, opoziciaSi mstovrebi Semoagzavnos

da „cixe Signidan ga-

texos”? ise, ar dagimalavT da,

piradad me, xazaraZe-usufaSvil-

„memarjveneebis”

gaerTianeba

swored aseT „triukad” miviCnie.

mokled, es „triumvirati” opozi-

cias xom ar emijneba?

_ ara, ver vityvi, rom es gamijvnaa.

es opoziciuri erToba konkretulad

proporciul sistemas-

Tan dakavSirebiTaa Seqmnili. es

erToba saerTaSoriso donezec

muSaobs da aseve qveynis SigniT

saprotesto talRis, ase vTqvaT,

daorganizebaze. yvelafer amaSi

Tqven mier CamoTvlili politikuri

subieqtebic CarTulebi arian.

rac Seexeba koalicias, bloks

da arCevnebSi vin rogor gamova,

yvelas Tavisi arCevani aqvs. zemoxsenebul

erTobaSi prodasavluri

Zalebic arian da prorusulic,

aseve memarjveneebi da memarcxeneebic.

Sesabamisad, arCevnebSi er-

Tad gamosvlis mizans arc visax-

baCuki qardava:

`sanam dasavleTis

finansuri

sanqciebis imedad

viqnebiT, araferi

gveSveleba! Cveni

mkvdari

ayrolebamde

Cvenve unda

mivabaroT miwas!~

avT. proporciul sistemaze gadasasvlelad

brZolaSi ki, vimeoreb,

yvela partiaa CarTuli da Cveni

devizia _ yvelas minus erTi, anu

biZina ivaniSvili!

_ mesmis, rom proporciuli

sistemis garSemo gaerTianebuli

opozicia parlamentSi erT gun-

dad ar gamova, magram niSandobl-

ivia, rom es e. w. sakoordinacio

sabWo Tako Carkvianma datova da

amiT nino burjanaZis moskovuri

viziti gaaprotesta. sxvaTa Sor-

is, burjanaZis moskovSi wasvla

„ocnebamac” xelze daixvia, „germanul

models” putinisgan Cam-

oitanso. baCuki, icodiT, rom

burj

rjanaZe CrdiloeTs miemgza-

vreboda Tu post faqtum gaigeT?

_ es informacia ar mqonda. burjanaZes

moskovSi viziti adrec

bevrjer hqonda da, zogadad, misi

sagareo orientacia cnobilia. aqve

getyviT, rom es orientacia CemTvis

da aseve Zalian bevri im politikuri

organizaciisTvis, romelic

am sakoordinacio sabWos wevria,

absoluturad miuRebelia. rac

Seexeba Tako Carkvianis gadawyvetilebas,

es emociurad gasagebia.

ise, qalbatoni Tako gaerTianebuli

opoziciis araTu wevrad rCeba,

aramed saprotesto aqciebSic

CarTulia. es ki imas niSnavs, rom

problema, praqtikulad, amowurulia!

_ ki batono, magram imaze ra-

tom ar mpasuxobT, „ocneba” rom

qirqilebs, burjanaZe „germanul

models” putinisgan Camoitanso?

_ jer erTi, enas Zvali ar aqvs.

meorec, gasagebia, rom burjanaZesTan

dakavSirebiT yuradRebas

rusul faqtorebze gaamaxvileben,

magram proporciulis Cagdeba,

xalxis protestis CaxSoba, kontraqciebi

da arCevnebze uaris Tqma,

anu xalxisTvis arCevanis uflebis

`xundaZe ivaniSvilis ideebs axmovanebs da

amitom xundaZeze ki ara, ivaniSvilze unda

visaubroT! proporciulis Cavardnis

speqtaklSi xundaZe mTavar rols asrulebda

da am speqtaklis gagrZelebaa mTlianad

maJoritarulze gadasasvlelad 200 aTasi

xelmoweris Segrovebac. ar unda daviviwyoT,

rom am cvlilebas sakonstitucio

umravlesoba sWirdeba, ivaniSvils ki

parlamentSi sakonstitucio umravlesoba ukve

aRar aqvs! mokled, yvelaferi is, rasac

xundaZeebi akeTeben, Cveulebrivi speqtaklia

da realur politikasTan kavSirSi ar aqvs!~

warTmeva, arasamTavrobo organizaciebis

dawuneba, „endiaisa” da

„airais” kritika rusuli gzaa.

_ anu?

_ es gza ivaniSvilis iZulebiTi

arCevani ar aris.

_ aba, ra aris?

_ ruseTi ivaniSvilis mentaluri

arCevania. putinic zustad

ase iqceoda da ivaniSvilic ase

iqceva!

_ geTanxmebiT, rom igive arasamTavroboebis

winaaRmdeg putin-

ic ilaSqrebs da am mxriv qarTul

da rusul mmarTvel elitebs

Soris paralelis gavleba namd-

vilad SeiZleba, magram baCuki,

Tqveni nebarTviT, saubris Temas

Sevcvli da im kiTxvas dagisvamT,

romelsac opoziciis yvela war-

momadgenels vusvam xolme.

_ ki batono, gismenT.

_ opozicionerebs ratom gqon-

daT imedi, rom ivaniSvili Tavis

sityvas Seasrulebda da proporciul

arCevnebs daakanonebda? mTe-

li zafxuli am Temaze opozicias

ufro metad rom eaqtiura, axla,

iqneb, sxva realoba gvqonoda?

_ saprotesto aqciebis Semdeg

qveynis faqtobrivi mmarTveli

gamodis da xalxs hpirdeba, saar-

Cevno reformas ganvaxorcieleb

da qveyana proporciul sistemaze

gadavao, magram aqamde arc CvenTan

gamigia da arc _ ucxoeTSi, rom

aseTi dapirebis Semdeg mmarTvels

araTu Tavisi mosaxleoba, aramed

saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobac moetyuebinos!

_ ukacravad, 2012 wlidan moy-

olebuli opozicia ivaniSvils

matyuaras eZaxis da axla ratom

gegonaT, rom Tavis dapirebas Sea-

srulebda?

_ iciT, rom ivaniSvilis mimarT

Zalian negatiuri damokidebuleba

maqvs, magram mainc ar vicodi, rom

am donis uweso kaci Tu iyo!

_ e. i., ar aRiarebT, rom opozi-

ciam Secdoma dauSva, roca am

Tveebis ganmavlobaSi proporci-

ul sistemaze ufro met peda-

lirebas ar akeTebda, ara?

_ Secdoma opoziciam ki ara,

ivaniSvilma dauSva, anu qveyanaSi,

praqtikulad, politikuri krizisia

da am krizisamde ivaniSvilma

sakuTari Tavi Tavad miiyvana! diax,

es misi Secdomaa da axla Cven mis

14

14 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


aucileblad xalxi gaimarjvebs!~

Secdomaze vreagirebT!

_ SeiZleba, asecaa, magram xelisuflebas

maincdamainc ar etyoba,

rom yvelaferi is, rac quCa-

Si xdeba, „ocnebas” anerviulebs.

ai, magaliTad, guSin erTi-or ara-

politikur RonisZiebaze viyavi,

romelsac mmarTveli gundis war-

momadgenlebic eswrebodnen da

gulianad „taSfandurobdnen”...

_ vnaxoT, bolos vin inerviulebs!

xelisufleba, praqtikulad,

Camoqceulia. metic, umravlesoba

iSleba _ mas yoveldRe

viRac akldeba. mokled, xelisufleba

ar arsebobs.

_ es rogor?

_ xelisufleba mxolod Zalazea

damyarebuli, magram ZalaZe didi

xnis ganmavlobaSi ver idgeba!

_ cxadia, nebismier Zaladobas,

adre Tu gvian, bolo moeReba,

magram ra moxdeba im SemTxvevaSi,

Tu xelisufleba opoziciis

moTxovnebs ar daakmayofilebs?

2020-is oqtombramde aqcia-dar-

bevebiT unda mivideT?

_ ubralod, ver warmomidgenia,

rom 2020 wlis oqtombris arCevnebamde

ase mivideT. ufro sworad,

Cven ki mivalT, magram ivaniSvili

ver miva.

_ ratom?

_ es xelisufleba am press verc

qveynis SigniT gauZlebs da verc _

qveynis garedan!

_ anu ivaniSvili iZulebuli

gaxdeba, rom vadamdeli saparla-

mento arCevnebi daniSnos?

_ es ar vici, magram ivaniSvils

xelisuflebidan wasvla nebismier

SemTxvevaSi mouwevs!

_ amaSi aseTi darwmunebuli

ratom xarT, baCuki?

_ sakmaod didi politikuri

gamocdileba maqvs da jer ar gamigia,

rom aseT fazaSi Sesul xelisuflebas

Zalaufleba Seenar-

Cunebinos! saqarTvelo navTobiT

mdidari qveyana araa.

_ es ra SuaSia?

_ saqarTvelo patara qveyanaa,

romelsac erTi simdidre aqvs da

es simdidre Tavisufleba da

demokratiaa! Sesabamisad, am simdidreze

uarismTqmeli xelisufleba

xelisuflebaSi ver darCeba!

_ anu opozicia revolucias

moawyobs?

_ revolucias politikuri organizaciebi

ar awyoben!

_ aba, vin awyobs?

_ revolucias xalxi awyobs!

aqamde ki viTareba xelisuflebas

mihyavs xolme! ise, ar visurvebdi,

rom am qveyanaSi xelisufleba

araarCevnebis gziT kidev erTxel

Seicvalos. es cvlileba samarTliani

arCevnebiT unda moxdes! mokled,

revolucia CemTvis misaRebi

namdvilad araa, Tumca es ivaniSvilis

gadasawyvetia, anu misi arCevani

iqneba, xelisuflebidan rogor

wava!

_ Cems xelT arsebuli kulu-

aruli informaciiT, „ocnebam”

vadamdeli saparlamento arCevnebi

SesaZloa, martis Sua ricxveb-

isTvis an aprilis bolosTvis

daniSnos, oRond vadamdeli arse-

buli, anu Sereuli sistemiT

Catardeba. Tu ase moxda, opozicia

arCevnebSi monawileobas mi-

iRebs?

_ opozicias Tavisi dRis wesrigi

aqvs.

_ da es „dRis wesrigi” rogo-

ria?

ìvaniSvils realuri kvlevebi daudes. amis Semdeg ivaniSvilma Sida

daxuruli kvlevebis Catareba moiTxova da am Sida kvleviT òcnebas~ bevrad

ufro cudi Sedegi aqvs, vidre, vTqvaT, àirais~ kvlevebiT gamoCnda. aqedan

gamomdinare, ivaniSvili mixvda, rom arCevnebs waagebda, anu xalxis

mxardaWeras veRar moipovebs da amitomac cdilobs, rom xelisufleba

maJoritarebiT SeinarCunos, magram utopiaa, rom arCevnebSi damarcxebulma

rame maqinaciebiT SeinarCunos xelisufleba da, rogorc sxva sakiTxebSi,

ivaniSvili aqac mwared cdeba!~

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

_ Cven kargad gvesmis, rom xalxis

realuri neba mxolod proporciul

arCevnebze gamovlindeba da

mcirereitingiani partia sakonstitucio

umravlesobasac ver moipovebs!

mokled, am qveyanaSi

arCevnebi samarTlianad mxolod im

SemTxvevaSi CaiTvleba, roca proporciul

sistemaze gadasvlis dapireba

Sesruldeba. sxvaTa Soris,

es mxolod dapireba ar iyo.

_ aba, kidev ra iyo?

_ mas Semdeg, rac ivaniSvilma

ganacxada, rom qveyana 2020-dan

proporciul arCevnebze gadavidoda,

amas sajaro ganxilvebi moyva

da umravlesobis wevrebi ambobdnen,

ai, ra kargebi varT, 2020

wels samarTlian arCevnebs CavatarebTo.

aqedan gamomdinare, sxva

SemTxvevaSi, arCevnebis legitimuroba

ver warmomidgenia. rac Seexeba

vadamdel arCevnebs, amaze opozicia

imsjelebs da Tavisi pozicia

aseve gegmac aucileblad eqneba,

rac ivaniSvils ar esiamovneba.

_ sxvaTa Soris, arsebobs cnoba,

rom mixeil saakaSvili vadam-

delis momxre araa da unda, rom

arCevnebi 2020-is Semodgomaze

Catardes. opoziciisTvis saakaS-

vilis pozicia mniSvnelovani

araa?

_ mixeil saakaSvilTan didi

xania, ar misaubria da vadamdelTan

dakavSirebiT misi pozicia ar vici,

amitom am sakiTxze mxolod Cemi da

„erovnul-demokratiuli partiis”

poziciis Tqma SemiZlia.

_ da es pozicia rogoria?

_ opozicia valdebulia, rom

poziciebi Seajeros da erTiani

strategiiT gamovides _ arCevneb-

Si monawileobas miiRebs Tu

boikots gamoucxadebs mas! zogadad,

am Temaze saubari jer adrea,

Tan ar mgonia, rom ivaniSvilma vadamdelis

arCevnebis daniSvna gabedos,

radgan aucileblad waagebs!

_ arCevnebisTvis boikotis

`jer erTi, enas Zvali ar aqvs.

meorec, gasagebia, rom burjanaZesTan

dakavSirebiT yuradRebas rusul faqtorebze

gaamaxvileben, magram proporciulis Cagdeba,

xalxis protestis CaxSoba, kontraqciebi da

arCevnebze uaris Tqma, anu xalxisTvis

arCevanis uflebis warTmeva, arasamTavrobo

organizaciebis dawuneba, èndiaisa~ da

àirais~ kritika rusuli gzaa~

gamocxadebas azri im SemTxvevaSi

eqneba, Tu masSi „ocnebis” meti

aravin avin miiRebs monawileobas. op-

ozicia ki Wrelia. ai, magaliTad,

miuxedavad imisa, rom proporci-

ulis momxrea, arsebobs garantia,

rom arCevnebs boikoti „patriot-

Ta aliansmac” da sxva wvrilma

partiebmac gamoucxadon?

_ ar vambob, rom boikots rame

upiratesoba aqvs. zogadad, Cems

pozicias gulwrfelad getyviT.

_ gismenT.

_ Tu arCevnebi gayalbdeba da

xelisuflebas miitaceben, ra mniSvneloba

aqvs, xalxi quCaSi arCevnebis

Semdeg gamova da am xelisuflebas

daamxobs Tu _ arCevnebis

win? ise, sityva „damxobisTvis”

SeuZlia, sus-ma, nika gvaramias msgavsad,

dakiTxvaze mec damibaros!

erTi sityviT, gadawyvetilebas

imis mixedviT miviRebT, konkretul

SemTxvevaSi rogori politikuri

mocemulobac iqneba! sxvaTa

Soris, boikotis garda isic SeiZleba,

rom opozicias maJoritarul

olqebSi erTiani kandidatebi

hyavdes. erTi sityviT, bevri varianti

arsebobs. is ki, vinc sxva

TamaSs iTamaSebs, es sxva ki ara,

aramed ivaniSvilis TamaSi iqneba!

_ vTqvaT, ise moxda, rom

xundaZem saarCevno sistemis

mTlianad maJoritarulze gadas-

vlasTan dakavSirebiT 200 aTasi

xelmowera marTla Seagrova. es

200 aTasi adamianic xom am qveynis

moqalaqea da misi azri gasaTval-

iswinebeli iqneba?

_ zedmeti ironiis gareSe

getyviT, rom xundaZe ramden xelmoweras

Seagrovebs an ra gancxadebas

gaakeTebs, amas seriozul

mniSvnelobas ar vaniWeb!

_ ratom?

_ xundaZe ivaniSvilis ideebs

axmovanebs da amitom xundaZeze ki

ara, ivaniSvilze unda visaubroT!

proporciulis Cavardnis speqtaklSi

xundaZe mTavar rols asrulebda

da am speqtaklis gagrZelebaa

mTlianad maJoritarulze gadasasvlelad

200 aTasi xelmoweris

Segrovebac. ar unda daviviwyoT,

rom am cvlilebas sakonstitucio

umravlesoba sWirdeba,

ivaniSvils ki parlamentSi sakonstitucio

umravlesoba ukve aRar

aqvs! mokled, yvelaferi is, rasac

xundaZeebi akeTeben, Cveulebrivi

speqtaklia da realur politikasTan

kavSirSi ar aqvs!

_ baCuki, gamoricxav, rom

ivaniSvili am „xundaZeebis” tyve-

obaSi iyos da imas akeTebdes,

rasac isini eubnebian?

_ ras laparakobT! amas seriozulad

mekiTxebiT?

_ diax, radgan e. w. patara

feodalebs, rogorc amboben, Za-

lauflebis dakargva ar undaT da

ivaniSvili SesaZloa, kuTxeSi mi-

ayenes.

_ am Temaze saubari araseriozuli

gamogviva, miT umetes, yvelam

viciT, proporciulis Cagdebis

mizezi rac gaxda.

_ me ar vici da miTxariT.

_ ivaniSvils realuri kvlevebi

daudes. amis Semdeg ivaniSvilma

Sida daxuruli kvlevebis Catareba

moiTxova da am Sida kvleviT

„ocnebas” bevrad ufro cudi Sedegi

aqvs, vidre, vTqvaT, „airais” kvlevebiT

gamoCnda.

aqedan gamomdinare, ivaniSvili

mixvda, rom arCevnebs waagebda, anu

xalxis mxardaWeras veRar moipovebs

da amitomac cdilobs, rom xelisufleba

maJoritarebiT Seinar-

Cunos, magram utopiaa, rom

arCevnebSi damarcxebulma rame maqinaciebiT

SeinarCunos xelisufleba

da, rogorc sxva sakiTxeb-

Si, ivaniSvili aqac mwared cdeba!

_ imaze, rasac axla gkiTxavT,

ar mgonia, obieqturad mipasuxoT,

magram opozicias calkeuli ma-

Joritarebis „daverbovkeba” ar

ucdia?

_ yvelas Tavisi sindisi da morali

karnaxobs, rogor unda moiqces,

amitom vinmes yidvis an gadmobirebis

survili namdvilad ar

gvaqvs. zogadad, gadawyvetilebas

maJoritarebi ki ara, ivaniSvili

iRebs!

_ es gasagebia, magram sxva rames

gekiTxebiT, anu opozicia ar cdi-

lobs, rom umravlesoba daSalos?

_ es procesi ukve mimdinareobs

da aravin icis, „ocneba” xval ra

mocemulobis winaSe idgeba! ise,

weRan vadamdel arCevnebze mkiTxeT.

hoda, saqarTvelos, samwuxarod,

umZimesi axali weli elodeba

da am fonze ar mgonia, ivaniSvils

vadamdel arCevnebze saubris ganwyoba

hqondes!

_ mokled, opozicias vadamde-

li arCevnebi ar unda?

_ vadamdeli proporciuli an

germanuli modeli. bolos, erTsac

getyviT: ivaniSvils unda, rom xelisuflebaSi

mudmivad iyos. xalxs

ki unda, rom Tavad gadawyvitos,

xelisuflebaSi vin unda iyos da

vin _ ara. ai, swored amis gamoa

konfliqti xalxsa da ivaniSvils

Soris. vnaxoT, vin gaimarjvebs _

xalxi Tu ivaniSvili, Tumca darwmunebuli

var, rom am brZolaSi

xalxi gaimarjvebs!

_ xalxi, adre Tu gvian, yov-

elTvis imarjvebs, Tumca ar unda

dagvaviwydes, rom dekemberi qar-

Tuli politikisTvis sakraluri

Tvea _ 25 wlis win Tbilisis omi

swored dekemberSi daiwyo da Rme-

rTma ar qnas, rom movlenebi isev

im avbediTi scenariT ganviTar-

des!

15


`dagegmilia xelisuflebis

„qarTuli ocnebis” gamxmov-

Sorena marsagiSvili

aneblebi ukve Riad alaparakd-

555 42 42 90

nen, rom yvelaferi vadamdel sa-

parlamento arCevnebamde miva.

vadamdel arCevnebs iTxovs opoziciac. Tu pozicia-opozi-

ciam saerTo ena ver gamonaxa, didi albaTobiT, saqme aqamde

miva. „nacionaluri moZraobis” damfuZnebeli mirian mirianaSvili

ambobs, rom xelisuflebac da opoziciac ukve SeTanxme-

buli arian, rom saqmes vadamdel arCevnebamde miiyvanen da

axla TariRze muSaoben. arCevnebis TariRis SerCeva ki Zalian

uWirT. mirianaSvilis mtkicebiT, „ocnebasa” da opozicias

Soris aranairi dapirispireba ar aris da rac dRes xdeba,

rusuli gegmis nawilia.

ra erTian TamaSs TamaSobs

umravlesoba da opozicia? ra

kavSiri aqvs trampis impiCments

saqarTveloSi mimdinare movlenebTan?

gabedavs Tu ara qarTuli

politikuri speqtri vaSing-

tonis gadagdebas da ra pasuxs

miiReben aseT SemTxvevaSi aSSsgan?

vin da sad moamzada dasaW-

eri xalxis sia? _ amis Sesaxeb

„qronika+”-s mirian mirianaS-

vili esaubreba:

_ ukve aqtiurad lapara-

koben, rom vadamdeli arCevnebi

Catardeba. amboben, am kriz-

isidan gamosvla mxolod ase

SeiZlebao. Tqveni azriT, miva

saqme vadamdel arCevnebamde?

_ didia imis albaToba, rom

saqme marTlac vadamdel

arCevnebamde mivides. ar ifiqroT,

es biZina ivaniSvilis axirebaa

_ es politteqnologiuri

gadawyvetileba gaxlavT da is

saqarTveloSi ar miuRiaT.

es gadawyvetileba saqarTvelos

gareT, jer kidev, weliwadnaxevris

win miiRes. swored am

periodSi daiwyo muSaoba imaze,

rom saqarTveloSi saqme vadamdel

arCevnebamde misuliyo.

viRacam SeiZleba uazrobad

miiCnios saarCevno wels vadamdeli

arCevnebis Catareba. erTi

SexedviT, es marTlac azrs moklebulia.

vadis mixedviT 2020

wels arCevnebi Semodgomaze unda

Catardes da ramdenime TviT

adre Tu Catardeba, Tanac Zveli

sistemiT, amiT qveyana verafers

moigebs. vadamdeli arCevnebi

sulac ar aris imaze gaTvlili,

rom qveyanam rame moigos, motivacia

sul sxvaa.

_ maSin gviTxariT, ra aris

motivacia?

_ am motivacias saxelad ruse-

Ti hqvia. qarTul politikaSi

dRes mTavari aqtori aris ruse-

Ti. moskovs aqvs informacia, rom

Semodgomaze aq amerikis SeerTebuli

Statebi gaaqtiurdeba, rac

imas niSnavs, rom saqarTveloze

maTi kontrolis xelyofa moxdeba.

bolo dros ruseTma bevri

samuSao gaswia, raTa saqarTveloSi

arCevnebi iseT dros gadmoetana,

roca amerikis politikuri

elita Sida politikuri problemebiT

iqneba garTuli da sxva

qveynebisTvis, maT Soris, saqar-

TvelosTvis ar ecleba.

putinis TanaSemwe surkovi

jer kidev SarSan zafxulidan

moyolebuli muSaobs imaze, rom

saqarTveloSi saparlamento

arCevnebi maTTvis sasurvel

dros Catardes.

_ surkovs vin ekiTxeba, aq

rodis Catardeba arCevnebi?

_ saqarTvelosTan dakavSirebuli

sakiTxebi surkovsa da kirienkos

exeba. bevri ifiqres Tu

cota, gadawyvites, rom aq arCevnebi

maSin unda Catardes, roca

amerikelebi trampis impiCmentis

sakiTxiT iqnebian dakavebulebi.

es procedura ianvar-TebervalSi

iqneba. am dReebSi kongresi

grafiks daamtkicebs da roca

es procedurebi daiwyeba, vaSingtons

saqarTvelosTvis ki ara,

alabamisa da kaliforniisTvisac

aRar ecleba. marto amerika ki

ara, mTeli msoflio iqneba am

Temaze gadarTuli. trampis impiCmenti

amerikis istoriaSi meoTxea.

rogor dasruldeba es

procedura, amaze didad aris

damokidebuli, Tu rogor ganvi-

Tardeba msoflioSi uaxloes

wlebSi procesebi. saqarTvelosTvis

aravis ecleba, Sesabamisad,

ruseTs unda, rom saqarTveloSi

am dros Caataros arCevnebi.

amitomac aris saqarTveloSi

aseTi vnebaTaRelva, amitomac

daqoqes qarTvelebi.

_ Tqveni logikiT Tu vims-

jelebT, amitom ar Seasrula iv-

aniSvilma danapirebi da „ocnebam”

Caagdo sakonstitucio cv-

lileba, romlis mixedviTac

2020 wels saqarTveloSi arCevn-

ebi mxolod proporciuli sistemiT

Catardeboda. amis Cagdebas

seriozuli protesti moy-

va.

_ rasakvirvelia imitom Cavarda

es sakiTxi, rom mRelvarebis

dawyeba iyo saWiro. vadamdeli

arCevnebis daniSva ase ver moxdeba.

mexi xom ar aris, mowmendil

caze gavardes? vadamdel arCevnebs

garkveuli winapiroba sWirdeba.

Caagdes proporciul wesze

gadasvla, rasac dagegmili vneba-

TaRelva moyva da vadamdelis-

Tvis garkveuli fonic Seiqmna.

darwmunebuli var, proporciulis

CagdebiT ivaniSvilic dainteresebuli

iyo, magram mas damoukideblad

gadawyvetilebis

miRebis ufleba rom hqonoda, am

sakiTxs sagazafxulo sesiaze

Caagdebinebda „qarTul ocnebas”.

am SemTxvevaSi opozicias rac

ar unda eaqtiura, rac ar unda

bevri xalxi gamosuliyo quCaSi,

riggareSe arCevnebis daniSvna

fizikurad veRar moeswreboda.

ruseTi didi xania cdilobs, rom

mirian mirianaSvili:

ìvaniSvili

moskovSi

gaagrZelebs

cxovrebas,

magram

danarCeni

sad wava?~

saqarTvelos im dros Caatarebinos

arCevnebi, rodesac amerikul

politikur elitas regionisTvis

ar ecleba.

moskovis mizania, rom Sidapolitikuri

bataliebidan gamo-

Tavisuflebul amerikelebs saqarTveloSi

sruliad axali realoba

daaxvedron. realoba arCevnebiT

unda Seicvalos. xelaxali

riggareSe arCevnebi ki erT

TveSi ver dainiSneba. yvelaferi

rom surkovis momzadebuli scenariT

midis, amaze opoziciis

moTxovnac metyvelebs.

_ raki opozicia vadamdel

arCevnebs iTxovs, amitom mo-

qmedeben surkovis gegmiT?

_ aq sxva ram xdeba. TiTqmis

erTi Tvea, opozicia quCaSia da

riggareSe arCevnebs iTxovs, magram

ar asaxelebs vadas. iTxovde

vadamdel arCevnebs da ar asaxelebde

vadas, es nonsensia. am

situaciaSi maTic mesmis, vadasa

da grafiks isini ar adgenen.

am gadawyvetilebas Rebuloben

rusebi, romlebic axla vaSingtonSi

mimdinare procesebs akvirdebian

yuradRebiT. am dReeb-

Si gairkveva, rodis daiwyeba amerikaSi

trampis impiCmentis procedura

da ruseTic gadawyvets,

Tu rodis Catardeba saqarTveloSi

vadamdeli arCevnebi.

albaT uaxloes momavalSi daadgens

moskovi vadas da Cveni opoziciac

gamoacxadebs, Tu rodisTvis

iTxoven vadamdeli arCevnebis

daniSvnas.

_ gindaT TqvaT, rom opoziciac

ruseTis miTiTebebs as-

rulebs?

_ ra Tqma unda. minda, yvelam

icodes, rom dRes saqarTvelo-

Si ar arseboben antirusuli

Zalebi. yvela partia moskovidan

Rebulobs davalebas. zogma prorusulis

roli unda Seasrulos,

zogma _ prodasavluri, zogic

centristuli unda iyos.

im opoziciur erTobaSi, romelic

dRes miviReT, zogierTma

politikosma Riad unda Seasrulos

prorusulis funqcia.

_ nino burjanaZes gulisx-

mobT?

_ ara marto nino burjanaZes.

`moskovis mizania, rom Sidapolitikuri

bataliebidan gamoTavisuflebul amerikelebs

saqarTveloSi sruliad axali realoba

daaxvedron. realoba arCevnebiT unda

Seicvalos. xelaxali riggareSe arCevnebi ki

erT TveSi ver dainiSneba~

am opoziciaSi nino burjanaZe

yvelaze patiosani politikosia.

is Riad ambobs imas, ra rolsac

asrulebs. is aris prorusuli da

ambobs, rom prorusulia.

danarCeni komuflirebs dasavlur

Rirebulebebs an centristul

miumxroblobas da ninoze

metad imarTeba moskovidan.

dRevandeli opozicia TiTqmis

mTlianad prorusulia. mTel

msoflioSi prorusul Zalebs

erTi Strixi aqvT _ isini moskovTan

SeTanxmebis gareSe nabijs

ar dgamen. maSasadame am gaer-

TianebaSi rusuli politikuri

interesebi devs. xelisuflebac

da opoziciac dRes ruseTis

scenariT moqmedebs. Cvens sazogadoebas

es ar unda aocebdes

da simarTle giTxraT, Zalian

mikvirs, xalxs es rom aocebs.

_ ratom gikvirT, xalxs rom

es aocebs? ar aris gasakviri,

damoukidebeli qveyana viyoT da

opoziciasac sxva qveyana mar-

Tavdes da umravlesobasac?

_ mikvirs es gakvirveba, mikvirs

imitom, rom Cveni politika

ruseTidan imarTeba. ruseTma ar

gadawyvita, rom saakaSvils ivaniSvilisTvis

gadaebarebina xelisufleba?

manamde ruseTma ar

gadaabarebina SevardnaZes Zalaufleba

saakaSvilisTvis? ruseTidan

miTiTeba rom ar yofiliyo,

saakaSvili ivaniSvils politikaSi

mosvlis uflebas ar

miscemda. erTi dRec ar gaaCerebda

am sivrceSi. aq iciT,

problema ra aris? ruseTi cdilobs,

saqarTvelo iseve marTos,

rogorc Tavis Sida regionebs

marTavs. im regionebSi, sadac xelisuflebis

gamocvlaa navaraudevi,

moqmed xelisuflebas

evaleba, rom momaval xelisuflebas

saTanado niadagi Seuqmnas

mosasvlelad da mere xdeba

gadabareba.

_ am gazafxulze inguSeTSi

daaxloebiT am scenariT Seicv-

ala evkurovi.

_ inguSeTi gamonaklisi ar

16

16 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


bokeriasTvis gadabareba~

aris. bolo ori wlis ganmavlobaSi

igive moxda CrdiloeT

kavkasiis ramdenime regionSi, magaliTad,

daRestansa da balyareTSi.

volgispireTis respublikebSic

igive xdeba.

gasakviri aRar aris, rom

ruseTi Cvens saqmeebSi ereva, magram

saCoTirod ki gvaqvs saqme:

saqarTvelo erTaderTi damoukidebeli

qveyanaa postsabWoTa

sivrcidan, romelic ruseTis-

Tvis lamis Sidapolitikuri nawili

gaxda. Cveni 30-wliani brZola

damoukideblobisTvis aseTi

komediuri SedegiT dasrulda.

SeiZleba, viRacas gaukvirdes,

magram wina xelisuflebebTan SedarebiT

biZina ivaniSvili ufro

meti avtonomiurobebiT xasiaTdeba.

miSa saakaSvili xistad iyo

ruseTTan mibmuli.

_ es raSi gamoixateboda?

_ me ar maxsovs, mas moskovidan

wamosuli, Tundac erTi

sakadro gadawyvetileba gaeprotestebinos.

viszec ki uTxres

unda daniSnoo, yvela daniSna:

grigol vaSaZiT dawyebuli, mixeil

janeliZiT damTavrebuli.

garda imisa, rom saakaSvili

ruseTis SerCeul kadrebs Tanamdebobeze

niSnavda, maT uflebas

aZlevda, uwyebaSi sakuTari

gundi mieyvana.

_ ivaniSvili ar niSnavs adami-

anebs Tanamdebobebze ruseTis

miTiTebiT? rogorc amboben,

gaxarias daniSvna premierad

moskovma moiTxova.

_ gaxarias moskovi lobirebda

da dainiSna kidevac is premierad.

magram mas ivaniSvili imperatiuli

gadawyvetilebebis

miRebis uflebas ar aZlevs.

_ es raSi gamoixateba?

_ is uaxloes sivrcesac ki ver

akontrolebs Tavisi kadrebiT,

amis uflebas mas biZina ivaniSvili

ar aZlevs.

gavimeoreb imas, rac zeviT

vTqvi: wina xelisuflebebisgan

gansxvavebiT ivaniSvili metad

inarCunebs avtonomiurobas.

_ da amis miuxedavad mainc

mzadaa, Seasrulos davaleba da

xelisufleba gadaabaros?

_ gadabareba es iseTi ramea,

romlisTvisac winaaRmdegobis

gawevis resursi ivaniSvils ar

gaaCnia. es mis SesaZleblobebs

ubralod aRemateba. aqedan gamomdinare,

is verafers izams.

_ saakaSvilisa da Sevardna-

Zis dros, roca xelisuflebis

gadabarebisken midioda saqme,

Canda is obieqti, visac xelisu-

flebas gadaabarebdnen. axla

aseTi Zala an obieqti ar Cans.

_ ruseTisTvis arc es iqneba

problema, monaxaven vinmes. saWiro

obieqti aqamde rom ver moinaxa,

es amerikis damsaxurebaa. amerika

uSlida amaSi ruseTs xels.

arc axla unda amerikas, rom aq

movlenebi rusuli scenariT ganviTardes,

amitomac mosTxova

vaSingtonma xelisuflebasa da

opozicias erTmaneTTan dalaparakeba.

sastumro „biltmori”

`viRacam SeiZleba uazrobad miiCnios saarCevno wels vadamdeli arCevnebis

Catareba. erTi SexedviT, es marTlac azrs moklebulia. vadis mixedviT 2020

wels arCevnebi Semodgomaze unda Catardes da ramdenime TviT adre Tu

Catardeba, Tanac Zveli sistemiT, amiT qveyana verafers moigebs. vadamdeli

arCevnebi sulac ar aris imaze gaTvlili, rom qveyanam rame moigos,

motivacia sul sxvaa~

amerikelebma iqiraves, rom iq dapirispirebuli

mxareebi daesva

molaparakebebis magidaze. sinamdvileSi,

maT Soris aranairi

dapirispireba ar aris. es amerikelebmac

kargad ician da amitomac

dasves dialogze. maT gadawyvetili

aqvT, rom xeli SeuSalon

vadamdel arCevnebs. vaSingtonSi

Zalian kargad ician, Tu

aq arCevnebi im dros Catardeba,

roca maTi politikuri elita

saqarTvelos monitoringisTvis

ver moiclis, ruseTi maT saqar-

Tvelodan da regionidan motexavs.

am procesSi monawile yvela

politikuri partia avtomaturad

xdeba antiamerikuli Zala.

minda, rom es am partiebma kargad

gaacnobieron.

biZina ivaniSvils, maTgan gansxvavebiT,

qveynidan wasvla da

cxovrebis sxvagan mowyoba ar

gauWirdeba. didi albaTobiT, is

moskovSi miiRebs TavSesafars da

aslan abaSiZis msgavsad gaagr-

Zelebs cxovrebas.

_ es gadawyvetilia, Tu Tqven

varaudobT?

_ xelisuflebis gadabarebis

SemTxvevaSi, savaraudod, ase

iqneba. ivaniSvili yvela variantSi

uSvelis Tavs, magram eseni

risi imediT arian? hgoniaT, rom

amerika regionidan motexvas gaatarebs?

ityvian, ra Sebertyilebi

arian qarTvelebi da rusebi,

regionidan mogvtexes da jani

gavardeso?

TavianTi politikuri problemebisgan

rom ganTavisufldebian,

saqarTveloSi Seqmnil axal

realobaze reagirebas ar moaxdenen?

moaxdenen da Tanac rogor!

Cemi azriT, Zalian kargi

iqneba Tu es politikuri balagani

erTad Seva xafangSi, sadac

TavianT antiamerikulobas bolomde

gamoaCenen. amiT moxdeba

qarTuli politikuri elitis

sruli lustracia.

wina destabilizaciebisgan

gansxvavebiT, axla qarTvelebs

mcdari molodinebi aqvT imaze,

rom rusebma viRacebi gamazes da

aSS da misi saelCo bolomde neitraluri

iqneba TbilisSi ganvi-

Tarebuli movlenebis mimarT,

`kidev erTxel vafrTxileb yvelas: nu

iTamaSeben rusul TamaSs da nu wavlen

amerikis winaaRmdeg. es maTTvis cudad

damTavrdeba. amerika ar dauSvebs, rom

ruseTma is saqarTvelodan motexos~

rac vadamdeli arCevnebiT unda

damTavrdes.

me ar vici, viRacam aiRo Tavis

Tavze am saqmis mogvareba da ver

gaakeTa, Tu rusebma moatyues qarTvelebi

da Segnebulad Seagdes

antiamerikul xafangSi. samagierod,

kargad vxedav, rom amerikisTvis

TbilisSi mimdinare

movlenebi sulerTi ar aris.

amis dasturi iyo „biltmor-

Si” gamarTuli Sexvedrac, romelic

amerikelebis egidiT da

moTxovniT gaimarTa.

_ am Sexvedris Semdeg kidev

ufro gamwvavda viTareba, daiw-

yo kontraqciebi da erTmaneTis

cema-tyepa.

_ amaSic ruseTis xeli urevia.

moskovSi saqarTvelos sakiTxze

ori jgufi muSaobs: erTia surkov-kirienkos

jgufi, meore

jgufs dumis spikeri volodini

xelmZRvanelobs. surkov-kirienkos

jgufi cdilobs, procesebi

ise warmarTos, rom saqarTvelos

gamo amerikasTan Ria dapirispireba

ar mouvides; volodini

ki ufro xisti moqmedebebis momxrea.

rogorc amboben, Tavis

droze, „patriotTa aliansma”

TbilisSi, amerikis saelCosTan

saprotesto aqcia volodinis

miTiTebiT gamarTa.

_ „patriotTa aliansi” vo-

lodinisgan imarTeba?

_ volodins maTTan uSualo

kontaqti ar aqvs. dumis spikeri

saqarTveloSi partiebs rusi

deputatebis meSveobiT ekontaqteba.

„patriotTa aliansze” kalaSnikovi

muSaobs. araa gamoricxuli,

rom es kontaraqciebic

volodinisgan iyos diriJirebuli.

erT ramesac unda davakvirdeT,

_ es kontraqciebi ar aris

masStaburi. Sexla-SemoxlaSic

mcire jgufebi monawileoben.

amiT iciT, ra ideis ganvrcoba

midis, rom ukmayofilebam centridan

regionebSi gadainacvla.

isic icodeT, rom Sexla-Semoxlebic

grafikiT aris gawerili,

winaswar aris cnobili, Tu sad

iqneba es fsevdo Sexla-Semoxla.

_ isev gadabarebis Temas da-

vubrundeT. Tqven ambobT, rom

gadabareba ukve gadawyvetilia,

magram amerikelebi am process

welaven da Tan is obieqtic ar

Cans, visac ivaniSvili xelisu-

flebas gadaabarebs.

_ jer ver ipoves saWiro adamiania.

am droisTis saukeTeso

varianti giga bokeriaa. moskovs

misi kandidatura aqvs SerCeuli.

saakaSvilisTvis xelisuflebis

gadabareba Tavidanve gamoiricxa,

imitom rom masTan amerikas

pretenziebi aqvs. amas vaSingtoni

Riad ar ambobs, magram qmedebebidan

Cans. adamians aSS-Si samuSao

viza ar misces. miuReblobis

amaze meti demonstrireba ra

gindaT?

bokerias kandidatura moskovma

trampis administracias

rom SeuTanxmos, es administraciisTvis

SeiZleba savalalod

damTavrdes. bokeria kidev ufro

axlos aris ruseTTan, vidre

saakaSvili. trampis impiCmentis

periodSi mis kandidaturaze Se-

Tanxmeba aRqmuli iqneba, rogorc

TeTri saxlisa da putinis

administraciis garigeba. amitom

nebismieri kandidatura, romelic

ruseTTan kavSirSi iyo, amerikasTan

ver SeTanxmdeba.

_ aba, CauvardaT gadabareba

da egaa. ambobT, rom bokerias

kandidatura ganixileba da is

ruseTTan aris kavSirSi.

_ sxvanairad gamoZvrebian

situaciidan. Tu moaswres da aq

arCevnebi maSin Caatares, sanam

amerikas ar ecleba sxvebisTvis,

bokerias gadaabareben xelisuflebas

da kudianebze devnis

procesic daiwyeba.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ im SemTxvevaSi, Tu bokerias

xelisuflebas gadaabareben, mas

miscemen direqtivas, rom prorusul

Zalebs daerios.

_ rusebi miscemen am direq-

tivas?

_ rusebi miscemen am davalebas

da bokeriac daereva maT.

amiT is aSS-s TvalSi erTgvar

politikur alibis Seiqmnis. is

unda gamoCndes, rogorc daundobeli

antirusi. ruseTis prezidentis

administraciaSi ukve

devs sia, Tu vin unda daiWiros

bokeriam, Tu xelisuflebaSi mova.

nuravin daijerebs, rom, Tavis

droze, saakaSvili ruseTis agentebs

avtonomiuri gadawyvetilebiT

iWerda. dasaWeri xalxis

sias masac ruseTi aZlevda.

es sia axlac mzad aris da araa

gmoricxuli, am siaSi is xalxic

iyos Seyvanili, vinc axla bokerias

gverdiT dgas. amis Sesaxeb

am adamianebma jer araferi ician.

kidev erTxel vafrTxileb

yvelas: nu iTamaSeben rusul TamaSs

da nu wavlen amerikis winaaRmdeg.

es maTTvis cudad damTavrdeba.

amerika ar dauSvebs, rom

ruseTma is saqarTvelodan motexos.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

17


`dasavleTi `qarTul ocnebas~

„qarTulma ocnebam” sajaro

Sorena marsagiSvili

seqtorSi dasaqmebulebi daawioka.

giorgi 599 92 16 22 saxelmwifo struqturebSi dasaq-

mebulebs meriebSi ibareben da

eubnebian, rom isini 14 dekembers TbilisSi unda wavidnen. trans-

portiT da sasmeli wyliT maT xelisufleba uzrunvelyofs.

mmarTvelma partiam regionebs gegmac ki Seudgina, Tu vin ram-

deni kaci unda Caiyvanos TbilisSi. wasayvan xalxs atyueben, rom

maT TiTqos evropis dReebis zeimSi unda miiRon monawileoba.

sinamdvileSi ki es xalxi TbilisSi imisTvis mihyavT, rom opozi-

cias kontraqcia mouwyon. „ocnebis” liderebi iTxoven, rom

regionebidan TbilisSi, ZiriTadad, axalgazrdebi Cavidnen.

samegrelosTvis, magaliTad,

aseTi gegmaa damtkicebuli: zug-

dididan 500 kaci unda wavides

TbilisSi, senakidan _ 290; same-

grelos danarCenma raionebma

dedaqalaqSi 200-200 kaci unda

Caiyvanon. samarSruto taqsebis

mZRolebs xalxis gadayvana-gadmoyvanisTvis

250-250 lars dau-

rigeben.

laSqris Sekrebis brZaneba

kaxeTis regionSic gaica. pirvelebs

TbilisSi gamgzavreba sa-

bavSvo baRebSi dasaqmebulebs

mosTxoves.

rogor agrovebs xelisufle-

ba aqciaze wasayvan xalxs? ras

atyueben maT? ratom ar ama-

rTlebs aseTi RonisZiebebi? ras

fiqroben kaxelebi amboxebul

maJoritarebze? sadamde apirebs

opozicia protestis gagrZele-

bas? daagviana Tu ara dasavleT-

ma reagireba? _ am Temebze „qronika+”-s

„nacionaluri moZraobis”

kaxeTis regionuli orga-

nizaciis xelmZRvaneli, giorgi

botkoveli esaubreba:

_ „qarTuli ocneba” 14 de-

kembers TbilisSi masStaburi

aqciis gamarTvas gegmavs. xalx-

is Segroveba regionebSi ukve

daiwyo. yvela regions misces

konkretuli gegma, sadac gawerilia,

Tu ramdeni kaci unda Cam-

oiyvanon TbilisSi. gamonaklisi

arc kaxeTi iqneba.

_ gamonaklisi ki ara, pirvelad

aq „ivaJkaca” „qarTulma ocnebam”

da aqedan daiwyo TbilisSi

wasayvani xalxis Segrovebis procesi.

mmarTveli partia 14 dekembers

rom kontraqcias gegmavda,

es informacia jer ar iyo gavrcelebuli,

roca kaxeTis region-

Si Sekribes sabavSvo baRebis TanamSromlebi

da uTxres, rom

isini erTi dRiT TbilisSi unda

wasuliyvnen. TbilisSi wasvlis

namdvili mizezi am adamianebs daumales

da uTxres, rom dedaqalaqSi

evropis kvireuli imarTeba

da koncertze dasaswrebad unda

waxvideTo. Zalian male gaubazrda

„qarTul ocnebas”, rom 14 dekembers

sul sxva saxis RonisZiebas

atarebdnen, koncerti da

evropis dReebi arafer SuaSi iyo.

rodesac maTi zraxvebi gamoaSkaravda,

raRac ganmartebebi

gaakeTa „ocnebis” axalgazrdulma

frTam, TiTqos es axalgazrdebis

Sekreba iyo da a. S.

Tavidan marTla mxolod axalgazrdebis

wasvlas iTxovdnen

TbilisSi. mere yvelas mosTxoves

wasvla, vinc sajaro seqtorSia

dasaqmebuli. am RonisZiebaze dasaswrebad

xalxi skolebidanac

mihyavT. skolis direqtorebi

ukve hyavdaT dabarebuuli. Seecdebian,

rac SeiZleba meti xalxi

waiyvanon TbilisSi. undaT,

rom maTi aqcia masStaburi iyos.

hgoniaT, Tu bevr xalxs Sekreben,

amiT procesebze gavlenas moaxdenen.

_ Tqven gaqvT am adamianebTan

Sexeba, visac TbilisSi wasvla

uwevs? ra ganwyobiT midian isi-

ni aqciaze?

_ aravis gaxarebia. darwmunebuli

var, rom sajaro moxeleebis

80%-s iq wasvla ar unda, magram

iZulebuli arian, rom wavidnen.

winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi,

maT samsaxurebidan gayrian. isini

amis Sesaxeb ukve gaafrTxiles.

daSinebiT da iZulebiT Sei-

Zleba bevri xalxi miiyvanon aqciaze,

magram es arafris momcemia.

ase daorganizebiT xalxis

wayvana bevrjer gvinaxavs, magram

es mcdeloba TiTqmis yovelTvis

da yvela xelisuflebisTvis

cudad dasrulebula.

_ „nacionalebic” aorgani-

zebdnen ase xalxs, magram mainc

mouwiaT opoziciaSi gadasvla.

mmarTvelobis bolo wlebSi maT

xalxis mogrovebac ki uWirdaT.

2012 wels kaxeTSic Zlivs Sea-

groves xalxi mitingisTvis.

_ amaSi ver dageTanxmebiT. ma-

Sin kaxeTSi bevri xalxi mogrovda.

aseTi xalxmravali aqcia im

wlebSi sxvagan ar gamarTula. es

Sekreba saarCevno kampaniis nawili

ki iyo, magram is Telavis reabilitaciis

pirveli etapis dasrulebasac

moicavda. maSin TelavSi

Zalian bevri kargi rame

gakeTda, xalxi kmayofili iyo da

amitomac gamovida amdeni adamiani

Skrebaze, romelic koncertiT

dasrulda. 25.000 adamiani

iyo mosuli maSin RonisZiebaze.

_ me am RonisZiebaze ar mi-

kiTxavs, dinamos stadionze rom

Sekriba „nacmoZraobam” xalxi,

magas vixseneb. regionebSi Tbi-

lisSi wasasvlel xalxs veRar

agrovebdnen. daaxloebiT aseT

dReSi unda iyos axla „ocnebac”.

_ „ocneba” marTla Sav dReSia,

rogorc kaxeTSi, aseve mTel

saqarTveloSi. kaxeTs arc dinamoze

gasamarTi aqciisTvis gasWirvebia

xalxis Sekreba.

iq xalxi kaxeTidanac blomad

Cavida da sxva regionebidanac,

giorgi botkoveli:

`protesti

manamde

gagrZeldeba,

sanam Sedegs

ar mivaRwevT~

magram mTavari isaa, Sedegi ra

miviReT. arCevnebSi davmarcxdiT

da opoziciaSi mogviwia gadasvla.

rodesac xalxs Seni gadarCeva

aqvs gadawyvetili, amas verc koncertiT

Secvli da verc _ aqciiT.

es yvelaferi Cven gamocdili

gvaqvs da minda, „ocnebas” vur-

Cio, aseT viTarebaSi regionebidan

xalxis wayvana TbilisSi da

raRacis demonstrirebisTvis

aqciis gamarTva fuWi gasrola

iqneba. isic icodnen, rom rac

met adamians aiZuleben maTi nebis

winaaRmdeg ramis gakeTebas,

miT meti problema daxvdebaT

win. es adamianebi daelodebian

arCevnebs da saarCevno yuTTan

gadauxdian „ocnebas” samagieros.

rac ar unda gaakeTon, qarTveli

kacis bunebasa da wess ver Secvlian

_ rac metad daaZaleb

qarTvels raRacas, miT metad

mogxvdeba misgan cxvirSi.

_ am aqciis gamarTvis aucile-

bloba maJoritarebis amboxebam

gamoiwvia. oficialuri versiiT,

isini ivaniSvilma ver daarwmu-

na, proporciul wesze gadasv-

lisTvis miecaT xma. amboxebis

erT-erTi moTave kaxeTis re-

gionidan aris, _ maJoritar

irakli SiolaSvilze vsaubrob.

_ magaTi amboxeba ar gaiSva.

risi ammboxeblebi arian an SiolaSvili,

an sonRulaSvili, an

maWaraSvili, an muCiaSvili, an

oTxive erTad. Cveni regionidan

oTxma maJoritarma deputatma ar

dauWira mxari proporciul

sistemaze gadasvlas.

_ amboxebaSi kaxeTidan 4 kaci

Tu monawileobda, baxtrioni

mouwyviaT faqtobrivad.

_ ra baxtrioni da risi ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg wasvla?! ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg ki ara, eg oTxive

erTad iq ver amboxdeba, sadac

saWiroa. rodis iyo, rom vi-

Racis xelis biWebi amboxebas awyobdnen?

es oTxive ivaniSvilis

xelis biWia, rogorc danarCeni

maJoritari deputatebi. darwmunebuli

var, arc erTma maTganma

ar icis, Tu ras niSnavs iyo ma-

Joritari deputati.

`moicaT, moicaT! romel xundaZeze mekiTxebiT,

senatori rom aris? senatori rom aris

xundaZe, es ukve komentaria da am adamianebze

da misnair amboxebulebze bevrs nu

malaparakebT, ar Rirs. axlo momavalSi iseTi

iniciativebi Semoiyreba, senator xundaZis

iniciativa monagoni iqneba~

_ ras niSnavs iyo maJoritari

deputati?

_ pirvel rigSi, CarTuli unda

iyo sakanonmdeblo saqmianobaSi.

isini raionebma da municipalitetebma

airCies. bevr maTganze

roca vambobT, airCieso, sityva

„airCies” brWyalebSi unda

CavsvaT. arCevnebis gziT egeni

parlamentSi ar moxvedrilan, es

sxva raRac iyo, magram ara arCevnebi.

SeiZleba saqme aseTi gziT

„arCeulma” maJoritarmac gaake-

Tos, magram amboxebuli maJoritarebis

gakeTebuli saqme kaxeT-

Si aravis unaxavs. sakuTari keTildReobis

mowyobiT da qonebis

gazrdiT arian dakavebuli. maT

meti Sinagani valdebuleba ar

gaaCniaT. arc sxvebis mimarT iviwyeben

valdebulebebs. magali-

Tad, ojaxis wevrebs, megobrebsa

da naTesavebs asaqmeben karg samsaxurebSi,

agebineben tenderebs.

_ am modelirebul amboxsa da

amboxebulebze kaxelebi ras

fiqroben? maTi gulwrfeli Se-

faseba Zalian sainteresoa.

_ xalxi Zalian yvelafers kargad

xvdeba. SeiZleba, xmamaRla ar

laparakobdnen, magram roca dro

mova, gadawyvetilebas miiReben.

arCevnebze gascemen pasuxs amboxebulebsac

da sxvebsac. darwmunebuli

var, „ocneba” marto kaxeTSi

ki ara, mTel saqarTveloSi

dasruldeba.

_ saprezidento arCevnebisas

TelavSi ukve daasruleT „qarT-

uli ocneba”, maTma nebieram

orive turi waago am qalaqSi.

_ marto Telavma ratom daasrula

_ „ocneba” mTel kaxeTSia

dasrulebuli. saprezidento ar-

Cevnebis pirveli turi kaxeTSi

opoziciam 5.000 xmiT mougo „ocnebas”.

meore turSi rogori

„arCevnebic” Catarda, yvelam viciT.

ase rom, „qarTuli ocneba”

kaxeTSi dasrulebulia. momdevno

arCevnebze es Sedegi gaxuTmagdeba.

amaSi darwmunebuli iyaviT.

_ „ocneba” ambobs, rom is up-

roblemod aiRebs arCevnebSi

60%-s. amas rogor upasuxebT?

_ ase uproblemod Tu See-

ZloT arCevnebSi 60%-is aReba,

ratom Caagdes proporciul sistemaze

gadasvlis wesi? ramden

18

18 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


daTmobaze wasvlas aiZulebs~

procents aiReben, amas arCevnebi

gvaCvenebs. maTi gancxadebebiT da

saqcieliT Tu vimsjelebT, ar

etyobaT, rom arCevnebSi gamarjvebis

imedi aqvT. amitom midian

yvelanair ukanonobaze, rom

arCevnebi arCevnebamde moigon.

xalxi gadawyvetilebas bolos

mainc imis mixedviT iRebs, Tu ra

aqvs gakeTebuli ama Tu im partias.

„qarTul ocnebas” kidev

risi imedia aqvs, _ merve welia,

xelisuflebaSia da ra gaukeTebia?

_ araferi. Sesabamisad,

arareluria, rom isini 60%-s miiReben.

_ Tqven sxva politikosebis

msgavsad ambobT, rom „ocnebas”

araferi ukeTebiao, magram

ivaniSvilis mtkicebiT, misma

partiam xalxs yvela dapireba

Seusrula, erTis garda. am da-

pirebis SesrulebaSi mas viTom

amboxebulma maJoritarebma Se-

uSales xeli.

_ sircxvilia, rom aseTi gaWirveba

moutane qveyanas, arc erTi

danapirebi ar Seasrule da kidev

ambob, yvela dapireba Sevasruleo.

etyoba, aseTi taqtika air-

Cia ivaniSvilma. aSkarad unda,

rom rac SeiZleba male gauSvan

xelisuflebidan. „ocnebas” movuwodeb,

rom am Cvenebas, _ yvela

danapirebi SevasruleT, _ bolomde

miawvnen da ra Sedegs miiReben,

naxaven.

_ opoziciis Sedegianobazec

visaubroT. ukve sami kviraa, rac

opozicia quCis aqciebs marTavs.

gamoiRo am aqciebma Sedegi?

_ rogor ar gamoiRo. Sedegi

ukve saxezea. Cveni protesti manamde

ar Sewydeba, sanam „qarTuli

ocneba” ar wava daTmobaze, ar

miiRebs im gadawyvetilebas, rac

mas politikurad daasrulebs.

Cven kanonis CarCoebidan ar gavalT,

magram mwvave aqciebs ar

moveridebiT. xelisuflebis yvela

warmomadgenels diskomforti

Seeqmneba. maT es daimsaxures.

_ Tqven axla aqtiurad ibrZviT

maJoritaruli sistemis ga-

sauqmeblad, magram Tavadac

gaqvT miRebuli monawileoba ma-

Joritarul arCevnebSi.

_ ra aris dasamali, 2016 wels

Telavis maJoritarad viyridi

kenWs, me 10.000 xma aviRe, irakli

sesiaSvilma _ 11.000 xma.

_ es ambavi sxva ramis gamo ga-

gaxseneT: ivaniSvilma Tqva da Se-

mdeg yvelam gaimeora, rom Cven

ratom unda gavauqmoT maJori-

taruli arCevnebi, roca wlebis

winaT saakaSvilma Tqva uari

srulad proporciul sistemaze

gadasvlazeo? am argumentze ras

ityviT?

_ maT mier moyvanili sxva argumentebis

msgavsad esec araseriozulia.

aravin uaryofs, rom,

Tavis droze, saakaSvilma da „nacionalurma

moZraobam” uari

Tqves maJoritarul sistemaze

gadasvlaze. xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebs

imdeni unda esmodeT,

rom arsebobs ganviTarebis

`marto Telavma ratom daasrula - òcneba~ mTel kaxeTSia dasrulebuli.

saprezidento arCevnebis pirveli turi kaxeTSi opoziciam 5.000 xmiT mougo

òcnebas~. meore turSi rogori àrCevnebic~ Catarda, yvelam viciT. ase rom,

`qarTuli ocneba~ kaxeTSi dasrulebulia. momdevno arCevnebze es Sedegi

gaxuTmagdeba. amaSi darwmunebuli iyaviT~

sxvadasxva safexuri da raRac

etapze cvlilebebia saWiro.

dRevandeli gadmosaxedidan

vfiqrob, rom Cven Secdoma davuSviT,

roca srulad proporciul

sistemaze ar gadavediT. radgan

Cven amaze uari vTqviT, axla

amitom ambobs uars „ocneba” cvlilebaze?

es ucnauria.

mas Semdeg, rac Cven uari vTqviT

gagveuqmebina maJoritaruli

sistema, mravali weli gavida.

„ocneba” ukve merve welia, rac

xelisuflebaSia. sxva Tu araferi,

maT saarCevno dapirebaSi

edoT, rom Tu xelisuflebaSi

movidodnen, egreve gaauqmebdnen

maJoritarul arCevnebs.

qveynis ganviTarebas cvlilebebi

sWirdeba. „qarTuli ocneba”

arafers akeTebs, cvlilebebze

uars ambobs da yvelani vxedavT

am Sedegs _ qveyana dapauzebulia.

_ is ar geCvenebaT ucnaurad,

rom miSas saxelis gagonebac ki

ar undaT, magram raki man ar

gaauqma maJoritaruli arCevnebi,

esenic ar auqmeben. amaSi mos-

wonT saakaSvili?

_ ucnauri rogor ar aris. isic

ar ician, ra argumentebi moiyvanon

Tavis gasamarTleblad.

kargi, Cven bneli da cudi Zala

viyaviT, saSineleba CavidineT,

rom arsebuli saarCevno sistema

ar SevcvaleT, magram Tavad ratom

ar cvlian amas? es yvelaferi

xom cudi iyo. adeqi da Secvale,

Se mamacxonebulo. Tan Seni

mTavari danapirebi eg iyo. amdeni

tyuili da araseriozuloba

sad gagonila?!

dapirebebi vaxsene da arc is

dagvviwyebia, rogor ambobda ivaniSvili,

rom qalaqebs TviTmmar-

Tvelobebi eqneboda. 2013 wels es

cvlileba SemoiRes. gvqonda 11

TviTmmarTveli qalaqi. mere

dainaxes, rom aman SeiZleba problemebi

Seuqmnas maT simyares da

`daTmobaze wasvla gardauvalia. arc xalxi da

arc opozicia gaCerebas ar apirebs. Tu vinme

ar daTmobs, es Cven varT. dasaTmobi,

ubralod, araferia, aq saqme qveynis momavals

exeba. saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis yvelaze

mTavari qveynis ganviTarebaa. òcneba~ am

ganviTarebas amuxruWebs. amitomac aRar

daTmobs aravin da òcnebas~ mouwevs

danapirebis Sesruleba~

ara qveynisas, da TviTmmarTvel

qalaqebs es statusi waarTves.

yvela kanonsa da gadawyvetilebas

imis mixedviT iReben, ramdenad

daexmareba maT es xelisuflebis

SenarCunebaSi. qveyana

ganviTardeba Tu erT adgilze

darCeba, es maT saerTod ar ainteresebT.

mTavaria, Tavad moiwyon

kargad cxovreba.

_ opozicia sami kviraa, quCa-

Si dgas da srulad proporciu-

li sistemiT iTxovs arCevnebis

Catarebas. am dros gamodis dim-

itri xundaZe da xelmowerebs

agrovebs, rom saarCevno siste-

ma srulad maJoritaruli unda

iyos. es ras niSnavs?

_ moicaT, moicaT! romel xundaZeze

mekiTxebiT, senatori

rom aris? senatori rom aris

xundaZe, es ukve komentaria da am

adamianebze da misnair amboxebulebze

bevrs nu malaparakebT,

ar Rirs. axlo momavalSi iseTi

iniciativebi Semoiyreba, senator

xundaZis iniciativa monagoni

iqneba.

_ ra iniciativebi Semoiyreba?

_ rac TavSi mouvaT, Sinaarss

ra mniSvneloba aqvs, mTavaria,

iniciativa Semoagdon. es erTgvari

TamaSi iqneba, Semoyrian am

raRacebs da mere speqtakls dadgamen,

TiTqos daTmobaze wavidnen.

opoziciis protesti maT

Zalian did diskomforts uqmnis

da lukmis gadmogdebas Seecdebian.

_ ra SeiZleba iyos es lukma?

_ albaT is, rom senator xundaZis

iniciativas ar dasTanxmdebian,

romelic iTxovs, rom

arCevnebi mxolod maJoritaruli

wesiT Catardes. am iniciativis

Cagdebis Semdeg gamovlen

„ocnebis” liderebi da siamayiT

amcnoben saqarTvelos, rom biZina

ivaniSvilma da partiam amboxebul

maJoritarebs ajobes.

_ opozicia dasjerdeba am

lukmas?

_ ra Tqma unda, ara. arc xalxi

daijerebs amas. es Zalian aSkara

blefi iqneba. iseTive aSkara, ro-

goric maJoritarebis amboxebaa.

_ es amboxi Zalian iolad

gasaSifri blefi iyo, Tavad ver

qaCaven mets, Tu sazogadoeba da

opozicia hgoniaT gonebaClu-

ngebi?

_ Tavad rom ver qaCaven, amitomac

CaTvales, rom xalxi da

opozicia Clungia da maT blefs

ver gaSifravdnen. Tavs gamarjvebulebad

miiCneven, magram yvelaferi

axla iwyeba da Sedegic

saTanado iqneba _ „qarTuli ocneba”

dasruldeba. am gadawyvetilebas

amomrCeveli miiRebs.

is amomrCeveli, romelic biZina

ivaniSvilma mravaljer moatyua.

_ im SemTxvevaSic dasrulde-

ba „ocneba”, Tu daTmobaze ar

wamovlen da arCevnebs kvlav

Sereuli sistemiT Caatareben?

_ Cven arc ki ganvixilavT imas,

rom „qarTuli ocneba” daTmobaze

ar wamova. maT amis gakeTeba

Zalian ar undaT, magram mouwevT.

_ ra gaZlevT imis Tqmis sa-

babs, rom „ocnebas” daTmobaze

wasvla mouwevs? amboben, ar

davTmobTo.

_ ramdenic undaT Tqvan, daTmobaze

wasvla gardauvalia. arc

xalxi da arc opozicia gaCerebas

ar apirebs. Tu vinme ar daTmobs,

es Cven varT. dasaTmobi,

ubralod, araferia, aq saqme qveynis

momavals exeba.

saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis

yvelaze mTavari qveynis ganviTarebaa.

„ocneba” am ganviTarebas

amuxruWebs. amitomac aRar

daTmobs aravin da „ocnebas” mouwevs

danapirebis Sesruleba. amis

Tqmis safuZvels isic maZlevs,

rom am TemiT dasavleTic dainteresebulia.

Cveni dasavleTeli

partniorebisTvisac Zalian mniSvnelovania

saqarTvelos momavali.

maT surT, rom es qveyana

demokratiuli da ganviTarebuli

iyos. ase rom, mouwevs daTmobaze

wasvla biZina ivaniSvils. amiT

qarTveli xalxi gaimarjvebs.

_ saerTaSoriso Tanamegobroba

axseneT, isini Zalian seriozulad

CaerTnen aq mim-

dinare procesebSi.

_ es aSkaraa, maTi moTxovniT

daTanxmda xelisufleba opoziciasTan

dialogs. arada, manamde

ambobdnen, rom kari daxuruli

iyo.

_ Tqveni azriT, maT cota xom

ar daigvianes? maTi pasiuroba

xom ar iyo imis mizezi, rom „oc-

nebam” ase aiSva?

_ dasavleTeli partniorebis

Semfaseblad ar gamovdgebi, arc

maTi misamarTiT vapireb sayveduris

Tqmas. maTac Tavisi strategia

aqvT da rogorc amboben,

yvelafers Tavisi dro aqvs. isinic

maSin CaerTnen, roca es

saWirod CaTvales. amas mxolod

mivesalmebiT. yvelaferi kargad

iqneba, „qarTuli ocneba” jer

daTmobaze wamova, mere iZulebuli

iqneba, demokratiulad Caataros

arCevnebi, rac „ocnebas”

daasrulebs.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

19


àm qveyanaSi putini kabaSi meyoleba

bolo dReebis erT-erTi mTa-

giorgi abaSiZe

vari politikuri movlena partia

„kanoni da samarTlis” Tavmj-

domare Tako Carkvianis mier opoziciis im sakonsultacio

sabWos datoveba iyo, romelic proporciul sistemasTan

dakavSirebiT Seiqmna. Carkvianma es gadawyvetileba mas Sem-

deg miiRo, rac cnobili gaxda, rom amave sabWos wevri, nino

burjanaZe, moskovSi wavida.

„vrCebi quCis aqciebis momxred,

piketirebis momxred! var gaer-

Tianebuli opoziciis _ „Zala er-

TobaSia” wevri da vrCebi am gaer-

TianebaSi! Cven imxela brZola gaviareT,

rom, ra Tqma unda, gaer-

Tianebul opoziciaSi vrCebi

„kanoni da samarTliT”!

rac Seexeba konkretulad proporciulis

formatTan dakavSirebiT

droebiT gaerTianebas, am

gaerTianebaSi yofnaze uars vambobT

partia „kanoni da samarTali”,

radgan am viTarebaSi burjanaZis

vizitis Sesaxeb, minimum, unda

vyofiliyaviT informirebulni!

pirvelad SevityveT ramdenime adamianma

„siurprizad”! vimeoreb: am

konkretul viTarebaSi, roca

mTel msoflios veubnebiT, rom

ruseTi gvebrZvis da ibrZvis, dagvabrunos

Tavis sivrceSi, ai, am

dros sruliad uadgilod meCveneba

es viziti, Torem aranairi

ufleba ar maqvs, rom rusul veqtors

„sirbili” davuSalo moskov-

Si, putinTan, magram am umZimes vi-

TarebaSi, vfiqrob, talaxi yvelas,

mTel qveyanas, esxmeba! proporciuli

gasagebia, magram sul mTlad

nu davabnevT ucxoel _ evropel

partniorebs, romlebsac Tan daxmarebas

vTxovT! brZola uzurpatoris

winaaRmdeg grZeldeba _

„putini kabaSi” meyoleba Tu SarvalSi

am qveyanaSi, CemTvis didi

mniSvneloba ar aqvs! mTavaria, sam-

Soblo da saxelmwifo erTad

gvqondes!” _ es gancxadeba Tako

Carkvianma 3 dekembers socialuri

qseliT gaavrcela.

ufro detalurad, Tu ratom

miiRo sakoordinacio sabWos da-

tovebis gadawyvetileba, „kanoni

da samarTlis” lideri „qroni-

ka+~-sTan interviuSi saubrobs:

_ qalbatono Tako, im sakoordinacio

sabWoSi, romelic opozi-

ciam arCevnebis proporciuli

sistemis kanonproeqtis Cagdebis

Semdeg Seqmna, nino burjanaZe

rogor moxvda?

_ es ar vici. ubralod, vici,

rom proeqti _ „yvelas minus erTi”

unda Semdgariyo. saerTod, am

proeqtSi monawileoba swored rusuli

veqtoris gamo gamiWirda, magram

Cven normalur saarCevno

pirobebs viTxovT. xelisufleba

rom xar da mudmivad Tavebs iTvli,

mitingze ori aTasi adamiani

movida Tu xuTi aTasi, Tu opoziciis

Sekrebaze ase cota xalxi modis,

aba, risi geSinia da yvelas ratom

amunaTeb, ai, „nacionaluri

moZraoba” gaimarjvebso?

mokled, mimaCnia, „ocnebam”

xalxSi saxeli ise gaitexa, rom gamoicno,

proporciuliT xelisuflebaSi

veRar mova.

rac Seexeba burjanaZes, igive

rusul veqtors, ver davuSli, rom

janmrTeli saarCevno garemos Seqmnis

survili masac hqondes. ami-

tom, bevri vifiqre Tu cota, amaze

davTanxmdi da, sxva 30 partiasTan

erTad, proporciulis moTxovnas

mec movawere xeli. es xelmowera

isev rCeba, magram CemTvis im magidasTan

dajdoma, sadac, praqtikulad,

kabiani putini zis, absoluturad

miuRebelia!

_ burjanaZis prorusuli gan-

wyobebi aqamdec cnobili iyo. ho-

da, mainc ver gavige, masTan erTad

sakoordinacio sabWoSi yofnas

Tavidanve ratom dasTanxmdiT?

_ vimeoreb: proporciuli arCevnebisTvis

brZolas vagrZeleb _

piketirebebSic vmonawileob da

morCa, ar minda, rom es urTierToba

raime politikurSi gadaizardos.

_ ukacravad, proporciulis

moTxovnac xom politikuria?

_ diax, magram Cemi politikuri

varaudiT, es proeqti uneblieT,

SeiZleba, rusuli dabalprocentiani

partiisa da misi lideris

reabilitacias moemsaxuros! adrec

vTqvi da axlac vimeoreb, radgan

ar minda, gaugebroba moxdes: me

vrCebi gaerTianebul opoziciaSi,

anu „Zala erTobaSia” _ iq Tormeti

partiaa da aqedan erT-erTi

„kanoni da samarTalia”. saubari

mxolod im gaerTianebazea, romelic

leiboristebis ofisSi ikribeba

xolme da proporciul sistemaze

gadasvlis gamo Seiqmna.

_ es gasagebia, magram ratom

fiqrobT, rom es proeqti uneblieT,

SesaZloa, burjanaZis reabil-

itacias moemsaxuros?

_ dasamali araferia: am qalbatons,

procentulad, saSuri periodi

ar aqvs.

_ anu?

_ burjanaZe dabalreitingulia

da misTvis Zalian didi mniSvneloba

hqonda, rom romelime opoziciur

gaerTianebaSi yofiliyo. hoda,

rogorc ki aseT gaerTianebaSi

moxvda, im wuTas moskovSi „gacunculda”.

albaT, mkiTxavT, ratomo?

am kiTxvaze pasuxis ramdenime varianti

arsebobs, magram erT-erTi da

umTavresi isaa, rom iq, sadac aqamdec

qmnida xolme, anu putinis administraciaSi,

axlac Seqmna politikuri

imitacia, ai, naxeT, am gaer-

Tianebis SeqmnaSi didi wvlili mimiZRviso.

_ am imitaciis mizani, Tqveni

azriT, ra unda iyos?

_ moskovidan fuli moaqvT

xolme da arCevnebis dros am fuls

isev qarTuli saxelmwifos winaaRmdeg

gamoiyenebda. gamovricxav,

rom nino burjanaZem dasavluri

veqtoriTvis TeTri gaiRos,

is mxolod sakuTari rusuli

partiisTvis zrunavs.

_ ise, gamoricxavT, rom am sa-

koordinacio sabWoSi qalbatoni

burjanaZe xelisuflebas Semoeg-

zavna?

_ ara, absoluturad ar gamovricxav!

man iseTi nabiji gadadga,

rom qveyana talaxisTvis gaimeta!

_ „talaxisTvis gametebaSi” ras

gulisxmobT?

_ galaktions aqvs: „dro, dro

unda daarqva yvelafers” da mar-

Tlac, asea: drois faqtori mxolod

poeziasa Tu musikaSi ki ara,

politikaSic aris. bolos da bolos,

naTqvamia, aris dro qvebis

srolisa da aris dro qvebis dagrovebisao.

mTeli opozicia muxlebze

vdgavarT da diplomatiur

korpuss vemudarebiT, droze,

iqneb, saqarTvelo natos wevri

daCqarebuli wesiT gaxdeso da Se

„dalocvilo”, am dros ruseTSi

mirbixar?! sxvaTa Soris, erT-erTi

televiziis pirdapir eTerSi viyavi,

am vizitis Sesaxeb rom gavige

da obieqturad getyviT, Sida Cats

Tako Carkviani:

`roca saqme qveynis

saxelmwifoebriobas

exeba, xalxs janyis

uflebas veravin

waarTmevs!~

rom Cavxede, amis Taobaze opoziciis

ramdenime liderma ar icoda.

_ anu opoziciis zogierTma

liderma icoda, rom burjanaZe

moskovs miemgzavreboda?

_ paata daviTaiam Tqva, me vicodio.

sxvaTa Soris, CatSi maSinve

davwere, _ amas uyuradRebod ar

da ver davtoveb-meTqi. ise, Tu

paata daviTaiam icoda, maSin es

CvenTvis unda eTqva.

_ mokled, SeiZleba vivarau-

doT, rom nino burjanaZe erT

mSvenier dRes, SesaZloa, gaer-

Tianebuli opoziciis mecamete

wevrad vixiloT?

_ ara!

_ aseTi darwmunebuli ratom

xarT?

_ grigol vaSaZisa da dasavluri

veqtoris partiebis damok-

`burjanaZe dabalreitingulia da misTvis

Zalian didi mniSvneloba hqonda, rom

romelime opoziciur gaerTianebaSi yofiliyo.

hoda, rogorc ki aseT gaerTianebaSi moxvda, im

wuTas moskovSi `gacunculda~. albaT, mkiTxavT,

ratomo? am kiTxvaze pasuxis ramdenime

varianti arsebobs, magram erT-erTi da

umTavresi isaa, rom iq, sadac aqamdec qmnida

xolme, anu putinis administraciaSi, axlac

Seqmna politikuri imitacia, ai, naxeT, am

gaerTianebis SeqmnaSi didi wvlili mimiZRviso~

idebuleba zustad vici _ amaze

araerTxel gvisaubria. gaerTianebul

opoziciaSi Rirebulebebia,

anu Cven dasavleTis garSemo varT

gaerTianebulni da amitom gaer-

Tianebul opoziciaSi rusuli veqtoris

partia verasodes iqneba!

_ ise, qalbatono Tako, im

SemTxvevaSi, Tu vadamdeli arCe-

vnebi dainiSneba, gaerTianebuli

opozicia xom ar daiSleba?

_ ara! aseTi SemTxvevisTvis

Zalian saintereso da kargi gegma

gvaqvs, magram axla amaze ar visaubreb.

mokled, „Zala erToba-

Sias” daSla ar emuqreba!

_ sxvaTa Soris, burjanaZis

moskovuri viziti „ocnebam” xe-

lze daixvia da, Tu ar meSleba,

kaxa kalaZem Tqva, „germanuli

modeli” putinisgan unda Cam-

oitanono. aqamde prorusobaSi

opozicia xelisuflebas sdebda

brals, axla ki ra gamodis, role-

bi Seicvala?

_ ai, swored axla, roca am intervius

vwerT, gavrcelda informacia,

rom am qalbatonma gavrilovis

gamo kosaCovs bodiSi mouxada.

xalxi movkvdiT da davwydiT _

saqarTvelos saxelmwifoebriobis

dacva mogvixda, ise mwared mogvixda,

rom baSvebs Tvalebi daeTxaraT,

es ki bedavs da kosaCovs bodiSs

uxdis! im saqarTvelos ra vu-

Txari, am gancxadebis Semdeg aeroportidan

ukanve rom ar gauSvebs!

_ qalbatono Tako, xazs usvamT,

rom burjanaZis partia dabalprocentiania.

hoda, sakoordinacio

sabWoSi aseTi dabalpro-

centiani subieqtis yofna ra

aucileblobas warmoadgenda?

_ aq procentebze ar yofila

saubari.

_ aba, raze iyo?

_ yvelas minus erTze, anu Cven

saarCevno garemos Secvlis gamo

SevikribeT. xalxo, warmoudgeneli

sircxvilia, 21-e saukuneSi normalur,

janmrTel arCevnebs viTxovT!

amitom opoziciis im warmomadgenlebsac

ar vamtyuneb, vinc

Cemnairi gadawyvetileba ar miiRo.

zogma Tqva, proporciul formats

20

20 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


Tu SarvalSi, didi mniSvneloba ar aqvs!~

vufrTxildebio. me ki Cemi politikuri

dro ase vigrZeni da CavTvale,

rom es gadawyvetileba

sawrafod unda mimeRo da im talaxs,

romelic burjanaZem isrola,

dasavleTis TvalSi Cems qveyanas

odnav mainc avacilebdi da asec

moxda _ xalxisgan Zalian swori

reaqcia moyva da amis gamo sazogadoebas

madlobas veubnebi. es Wu-

Wyi da sibinZure aravin unda avitanoT

_ man yvela da yvelaferi

gasvara! Cveni, mTeli sazogadoebis

Secdoma iciT, ra aris?

_ ra?

_ mgoni, giorgi axvledianma

Tqva, vis ra unda vkiTxoTo, magram

okupaciis kanoni arsebobs da

opozicia okupantTan konfidencialurad

sasaubrod rom daZrwis,

am Sexvedras vinme arbitri unda

eswrebodes, Torem sxva SemTxveva-

Si saidan gvecodineba, es, mapatieT

da, „politikanka” raze saubrobs?

saqarTvelosTvis ra moutania?

27 welia, baltiis qveynebis

gzas ar davadeqiT, anu am tipis

„politikankebTan” wyalgamyofi ar

gavavleT da gekiTxebiT, am xnis

ganmavlobaSi, zianis garda, saqarTvelosTvis

rusulma veqtorma

ra moitana?

_ ki batono, rusuli veqtori

mTel qveyanas azianebs, magram

mainc Cems azrze vrCebi, anu sak-

oordinacio sabWoSi prorusuli

partiebisTvis Tavidanve unda

CageketaT kari.

_ proporciulis moTxovnis

ufleba yvelas aqvs.

_ diax, magram am sabWos wevri,

magaliTad, „patriotTa aliansi”

araa.

_ mesmis, magram proporciuls

eTanxmeba.

_ eTanxmeba, magram damoukideblad.

hoda, ratom ar SeiZleboda,

rom proporciuli burjanaZ-

esac damoukideblad moeTxova da

prodasavlel politikosebTan

xelCakidebuls

rusTavelis

gamzirze ar evlo?

_ xom giTxariT, rom es arc me

msiamovnebda da gadawyvetileba

Zalian rTulad miviRe.

SemiZlia giTxraT, rom sakoordinacio

sabWos datoveba Cemi

mxridan swori da drouli iyo.

metic: vfiqrob, rom im magidasTan

nino burjanaZis jdoma Secdomaa!

_ qalbatono Tako, pirdapir

gkiTxavT: burjanaZes gaerTianeb-

ul opoziciaSi lobistebi hyavs?

_ es talaxis garda aravis

arafers moutans!

_ ise, mixeil saakaSvilTan gub-

az sanikiZec dapirispirebuli

iyo, magram axla erT poziciaze

arian. hoda, gamoricxavT, rom

saqarTvelos mesame prezidenti

nino burjanaZesac Sexvdes?

_ rasTan dakavSirebiT unda

Sexvdes?

_ Tundac proeqtis _ „yvelas

minus erTi” formatSi.

_ nino burjanaZem ramdenime

dRis win, mgoni, Salva ramiSvilTan

interviuSi Tqva, _ mixeil saaka-

Svili Cemi piradi da politikuri

mteriao. aqedan gamomdinare, aseT

rames sruliad gamovricxav!

proporciulis formatSi dajdoma,

rogorc giTxariT, burjanaZis

reabilitaciis mcdeloba iyo

`moskovidan fuli moaqvT xolme da arCevnebis dros am fuls isev qarTuli

saxelmwifos winaaRmdeg gamoiyenebda. gamovricxav, rom nino burjanaZem

dasavluri veqtorisTvis TeTri gaiRos, is mxolod sakuTari rusuli

partiisTvis zrunavs~

da Tu saakaSvils Sexvdeba, es

qulebis Cawera burjanaZisTvis

iqneba da ara _ saakaSvilisTvis!

amitom amas gamovricxav, Tan ori

azri imazec ar arsebobs, rom

saakaSvili niWieri politikosia da

politikuri intuicia ukarnaxebs,

rom burjanaZesaviT politikurad

garyvnil da TaRliT „politikankasTan”

araferi esaqmeba!

bagratis taZarTan grigol

vaSaZe me da paata burWulaZem

prezidentobis kandidatad imitom

warvadgineT, rom gaerTianebuli

opozicia Rirebulebis garSemoa

Sekrebili da es Rirebuleba

dasavluria, magram gaerTianeba,

romelic Rirebulebis garSemo

araa Sekrebili, mgonia, rom did

Sedegs ver dadebs!

_ anu sakoordinacio sabWo

Sedegs ver dadebs?

_ mgonia, rom burjanaZis iq

yofna mxolod zians moutans!

_ e. i., yvelaferi is, rasac vxe-

davT, erTgvari TamaSia?

_ ara, araviTar SemTxvevaSi, es

ukeTesis mcdelobaa. biZina ivaniSvilma,

Tavisi uzurpatoruli qmedebebiT,

sazogadoeba Zalian daRala.

amitom yvela politikosi gamosavals

eZebs da es sakoordinacio

sabWoc kargis gakeTebis mcdelobaa,

Tumca Cemi politikuri intuiciiT

mxolod am magidas gamovecale,

Torem gaerTianebul

opoziciasTan erTad piketirebasac

vagrZeleb da protestsac!

_ sxvaTa Soris, Tavidan iTqva,

rom burjanaZesTan erTad moskovSi

TiTqos grigol vaSaZec wav-

ida.

_ es absoluturi tyuili iyo!

_ diax, magram am tyuilis gavrcelebas,

albaT, rame mizani hqon-

da, ara?

_ ramdenime saiti da gazeTi vici,

romlis dafinansebaSic konkretulad

am qalbatonis ojaxia Car-

Tuli!

_ amiT risi Tqma gindaT?

_ es obobis iseTi qselia, rom

ar gamoricxoT, opoziciisa da

qarTuli dasavluri survilebis

talaxis Sesasxmelad burjanaZe Semogdebuli

yofiliyo! gazeTi

„saqarTvelo da msoflio” aiReT

_ am rusuli narativis gazeTSi

fexebi Rrmad aqvs Cadgmuli burjanaZis

ojaxs Tavis nugzar fofxaZianad.

es gaxmaurebuli ambavia da

yvelam icis. mokled, piradad me

magidasTan putini kabaSi ar mWirdeba!

_ qalbatono Tako, roca lei-

boristebis ofisSi Sexvedrebi

imarTeboda, burjanaZe Tu dage-

laparakaT?

_ ara, ara. me Cemi principebi

maqvs, romelic arasodes daingreva.

òkupaciis kanoni arsebobs da opozicia

okupantTan konfidencialurad sasaubrod rom

daZrwis, am Sexvedras vinme arbitri unda

eswrebodes, Torem sxva SemTxvevaSi saidan

gvecodineba, es, mapatieT da, `politikanka

politikanka~ raze

saubrobs? saqarTvelosTvis ra moutania?~

_ ramdenjerme politikuri

intucia axseneT da, ras fiqrobT,

procesebi rogor ganviTardeba?

faqtia: opozicia gaCerebas ar

apirebs da arc „ocneba” modis

daTmobaze. hoda, amden protests

azri aqvs?

_ baltiis qveynebis gzas unda

davadgeT da ruseTis uSiSroebisgan

marTul partiebs brZola gamovucxadoT,

anu ise ar gaigoT,

rom maT sunTqvas da arsebobas

vuSli, magram ar SeiZleba, okupirebul

qveyanaSi aseT korumpirebul

politikanebs enis moCleqiT

vesaubroT, radgan isini

yovelTvis moaxerxeben, rom ruse-

Tis daxmarebiT saqarTvelo mudmivad

erT wreze atrialon! sxva-

Ta Soris, burjanaZis erT-erT interviuSi

saocari ram movismine,

anu Jurnalistma uTxra, saakaSvilma

erT larad agaraki gaCuqa-

To da iciT, ra upasuxa?

_ ra?

_ mekuTvnoda da maCuqao.

„mekuTvnoda” _ ai, es aris misi,

rogorc politikosis kredo. sanam

am tipis politikanebi fiqroben,

rom am okupirebul saxelmwifoSi

maT rame erT larad ekuTvniT da

sanam am mentalitets xels ar SevuSliT,

qveyanas ar eSveleba!

_ SeiZleba, magram sxva ram

gkiTxeT, anu Tu xelisufleba

daTmobaze ar wamovida da opozi-

ciamac „daboqlomeba” gaagrZela,

2020 wlis oqtombramde am bakqana-

liaSi unda viyoT?

_ yvelafer amaze pasuxismgebloba

mTlianad am ugvan xelisuflebas

ekisreba! zogadad, dauwereli

kanonia, rom krizisidan gamosvlis

gzas xelisufleba unda

eZebdes!

_ cxadia, magram iqneb, opoziciamac

dauSva Secdoma, roca mTe-

li zafxuli ise gaatara, rom

proporciulze, praqtikulad,

araferi uTqvams?

_ ar geTanxebiT.

_ raSi ar meTanxmebiT?

_ jer erTi, is, rac ivaniSvilma

gaakeTa, „saukunis gadagdeba” iyo.

_ amaze ar gekamaTebiT, magram

opozicia mSvidad ratom iyo da

ratom ar uSvebda, rom ivaniSvili

„gadaagdeba”?

_ es meored ar TqvaT, Torem

sawyenad miviReb _ mTeli zafxuli

maRalmTiani raionebi ar dagvitovebia

da ar Cagvimuxlavs. opozicioneroba

mxolod televiziiT

gamosvla araa da mTeli zafxuli

xalxTan muSaobaSi gavatareT.

_ xalxis garda, opozicias,

albaT, diplomatiur kor-

pusTanac unda emuSava.

_ imuSava! igive grigol vaSaZes

aSS-sa da germaniSi am Temebze

brwyinvale Sexvedrebi hqonda.

_ imis garda, rom saerTa-

Soriso sazogadoeba SeSfoTdeba,

opozicias ra berketi aqvs, „oc-

neba” daTmobaze wamoiyvanos?

_ berketebi gvaqvs.

_ berketi sajaro uwyebebis

„daboqlomebaa”?

_ ara.

_ aba, kidev ra?

_ erTi ambavi atexes, ai, gvaramiam

sityva damxoba gamoiyenao.

Zalian didi bodiSi, magram Cemi

gancxadeba pirdapir ase dawereT:

xelisufleba konstituciur uflebas,

anu arCevnebis uflebas

garTmevs da geubneba, me minda, ase-

Ti arCevnebi iyos, xval momindeba

da gadagagdeb, zeg ki sxva rame momindeba

da imas gavakeTebo. an ivaniSvilma

xval SeiZleba gaiRviZos,

daamTqnaros da Tqvas, mominda da

qarTuli saxelmwifo rusul sivrceSi

unda dabrundeso. me, rogorc

kanonmorCili moqalaqe, gekiTxebiT:

leqsikonSi is sityva vipovoT,

romelic qarTuli saxelmwifoebriobis

dacvas Seefereba! garda

amisa, gaeros konvenciiT, roca

saqme qveynis saxelmwifoebriobas

exeba, xalxs janyis uflebas veravin

waarTmevs!

_ ise, Tu burjanaZis vizitis

Semdeg osi separatistebi daty-

vevebul qarTvel eqims marTla

gaaTavisufleben, amiT es qalba-

toni mosaxleobis TvalSi qulebs

xom ar Caiwers?

_ ara! amas saqarTvelo ar „Wams”

imitom, rom vaJa gafrindaSvilisnair

moqalaqeebs, burjanaZes patroni

rom hyavs moskovSi putinis

saxiT, mudmivad is itacebs da aviwroebs.

nino burjanaZis reabilitaciis

gamo gasakviri ar iqneba,

rom Cveni moqalaqeebi gamouSvan an

isev daiWiron _ magaTTan aseTi

binZuri TamaSebi „mosula”. ager,

xom naxeT, strasburgma daskvna

dado, rom, Tavis droze, beslanSi

bavSvebi Tavad daxoca da es qalbatoni

am qveyanaze ambobs, adamianurad

SeSfoTebulia da Cvens Sinaur

saqmeebSi ar erevao. putini,

Turme, adamianurad yofila SeSfoTebuli,

welgadaxsnil biWebs

rom gvigzavnis da tatunaSvilis

cxedars ar gvatanda! saqarTvelo-

Si aRaravinaa, gansakuTrebiT axalgazrdoba,

romelic ruseTisken xelgawvdili

am „politikankas” zRaprebs

daijerebs!

rac Seexeba qarTvel eqims, batoni

vaJa vinc unda gaaTavisuflos,

yvela SemTxvevaSi gaxarebuli

viqnebi, magram ar mgonia, rom

am „politikankam” es mainc SeZlos

da Tu SeZlebs, arc es iqneba gasakviri,

radgan Cvens moqalaqeebs

misi patroni iparavs!

ise, Semogdebuli putini kabaSi

mxolod ruseTis vasal xelisuflebas

awyobs. amitom am qalTan

frTxilad unda viyoT da saswrafod

unda gawion _ es Cemi politikuri

rCevaa!

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

21


`rodesac xelisufleba opozicias

aseTi saocreba mxolod saqa-

Sorena marsagiSvili

rTveloSi SeiZleba moxdes, rom

599 92 16 22

xelisuflebam, romelic ukve

merve welia, qveyanas marTavs,

opozicias aqcia mouwyos da prezidentobidan 6 wlis win

wasuli kacis gadadgoma moiTxovos. 14 dekembers „qarTuli

ocneba” TbilisSi masStaburi aqciis mowyobas gegmavs, sadac

saakaSvilis gadadgomasa da „nacionalebis” dasjas moiTxoven.

„nacionalebis” dasja surs im partias, romlis 70% „naciona-

lebiT” aris dakompleqtebuli.

ratom dasWirda xelisufle-

bas kidev erTxel opoziciisTvis

aqciis mowyoba? ratom ar unda

upasuxos opoziciam „ocnebas”

Zaladobaze ZaladobiT? ra di-

agnozis dasma SeiZleba ivaniSvilisTvis?

ra Seuracxyofa mi-

ayena xelisuflebis momxreebs

„ocnebis” deputatma oxanaSvilma?

ratom ar aprotestebs sazogadoeba

policielis mier ax-

algazrda mamakacis gaupatiure-

bis faqts? _ amis Sesaxeb „qron-

ika+~-s -s moZraoba „Secvales”

erT-erTi damfuZnebeli, dimi-

tri biZinaSvili esaubreba:

_ 14 dekembers xelisufleba

TbilisSi grandiozuli sapro-

testo aqciis mowyobas apirebs.

risTvis akeTebs amas ocneba?

risi damtkiceba surs?

_ xelisuflebam am aqciisTvis

seriozuli samzadisi daiwyo,

cdilobs, rac SeiZleba meti adamiani

daayenos quCaSi, rom sazogadoeba

moatyuos, kidev amdeni

amomrCeveli gvyavso. „ocneba”

yvela Rones ixmars, rom 14 dekembers

bevri xalxi gamoiyvanos,

magram es adamianebi maTi amomrCevlebi

ar arian. winaswar geubnebiT,

aqciaze mxolod sajaro

seqtorSi dasaqmebulebi da maTi

ojaxis wevrebi mivlen, oRond TavianTi

surviliT _ ara.

Cems megobrebs regionebidan

axloblebi ukavSirdebian da eubnebian,

rom „qarTuli ocneba” maT

14 dekembers TbilisSi aqciaze

wamosvlas aiZulebs. im SemTxveva-

Si, Tu aqciaSi monawileobaze

uars ityvian, samsaxurebidan gaSvebiT

emuqrebian. 14 dekembris

aqciis aravis SeeSindes, es kino

Cven ukve vnaxeT da viciT, rogori

finalic aqvs aseT ambavs. rodesac

xelisufleba opozicias aqciebs

uwyobs, is ukve damTavrebulia.

biZina ivaniSvili da „qar-

Tuli ocnebac” damTavrebulia.

Cven, samoqalaqo aqtivistebi

da politikuri partiebis warmomadgenlebi,

mTeli qveynis masStabiT

vxvdebiT xalxs. bolo dReeb-

Si ramdenime qalaqSi gavmarTeT

aqciebi, sadac kargad davinaxeT

sazogadoebis ganwyoba.

nanaxidan da mosmenilidan gamomdinare,

SemiZlia Tamamad gi-

TxraT, rom ivaniSvili dasrulebulia,

mas xalxSi mxardaWera aRar

aqvs. ase rom, ginda 14 dekembers

gamarTon aqcia, ginda _ 15

dekembers da ginda _ 30 dekembers,

aranairi mniSvneloba aRar

eqneba. vimeoreb, aqciaze idgebian

mxolod sajaro seqtorSi

dasaqmebulebi da isinic imitom,

rom samsaxurebi ar dakargon.

_ ramdenime versia arsebobs

imasTan dakavSirebiT, Tu ratom

awyobs „ocneba” 14 dekembers aqcias.

erT-erTi versiiT, ivaniS-

vils surs rusTavelze Tavisi

momxreebi daabanakos, raTa iq

opoziciam veRar gamoxatos pro-

testi. ramdenad didia imis al-

baToba, rom „ocneba” rusTav-

elze dabanakdes?

_ amaze Tu wavlen, amiT kidev

ufro daaCqareben TavianT politikur

aRsasruls. amiT xalxs

oficialurad etyvian, rom dam-

Tavrdnen. saqarTveloSi jer kidev

kargad axsovT eduard SevardnaZe.

axsovT isic, rom man ase daabanaka

xalxi rusTavelze, raTa iq

opozicias aqcia aRar moewyo.

aman SevardnaZes ver uSvela. rusTavelze

poziciebis dakavebiT

verc ivaniSvili gadairCens Tavs.

imedia, iq, sololakis sasaxleSi,

Wkua eyofaT da amas ar gaakeTeben.

mgonia, rom verc gaakeTeben,

radgan im aqciaze myofebidan aravis

gauCndeba rusTavelze dar-

Cenisa da Rameebis Tenebis survili.

sajaro moxeleebic kargad

xvdebian, rom ivaniSvili dasrulebulia.

qveyana rom CixSia Sesuli,

amas es moxeleebi sakuTar

Tavze grZnoben. im xelfasiT, rasac

iReben, guSin ufro bevri ramis

yidva SeeZloT, vidre dRes

SeuZliaT. imdenad mZime dReSi

aRmoCndnen, rom bevri maTgani

damatebiT samuSaos eZebs.

sajaro moxeleebis nawili taqsaobda

da amiT Soulobda damatebiT

Semosavals. gamovarda kalaZe,

taqsebis sfero xelSi Caigdo

da am adamianebs taqsaoba aukrZala,

faqtobrivad, lukma gamoacala

piridan.

sajaro moxeleebic xvdebian,

rom xelisuflebis saTaveSi myofebi

mxolod sakuTar keTildReobaze

zrunaven da sul ar adardebT

xalxisa da qveynis bedi. aman

ukve gamoiRo Sedegi, „ocnebas”

mxardamWerebi aRar darCa. maT

ramdenime qalaqSi mogviwyves kontraqciebi,

magram yvelgan erTi

da igive xalxi iyo. sul raRac 30

kaci darCaT da magaT daatareben

aqeT-iqiT.

am 30 kacis vis unda SeeSindes?

daWerebiT ver SegvaSines. egonaT,

rom daWerebiT saprotesto

muxts daagdebdnen, magram piriqiT

moxda _ sanam Cven cixeSi

viyaviT, sxvebi awyobdnen aqciebs.

Zaladobasa da provokacias Tu

gabedaven, es saprotesto muxti

kidev ufro gaizrdeba.

ivaniSvilsa da misi garemocvis

wevrebs Tavebis daTvla uyvarT

da, albaT, xvdebian, rom sakmaod

dimitri biZinaSvili:

òcnebam~ jer

partiaSi myof

portirebul

`nacionalebs~

mixedos da mere

moiTxovos

sxvebis dasja~

bevrni varT. maT rigebSi ki Zalian

cota xalxia. vimeoreb: isinic

imitom dganan iq, rom samsaxurebi

ar dakargon.

gasul kviras quTaisSi msvleloba

gavmarTeT. „ocneba” dagvcinoda,

_ sul amdeni xarTo? arada,

imaze meti adamiani gamovida,

vidre velodiT. imasac nu daiviwyeben,

rom SarSan saprezidento

arCevnebSi „ocnebam” pirveli turi

quTaisSi pirwmindad waago.

meore turSi quTaissa da sxva

regionebSi xalxis daSinebiT miiRo

xmebi. xalxi amisTvisac mosTxovs

pasuxs „qarTul ocnebas”.

xSirad vambob xolme amas da axlac

gavimeoreb: rac ufro met

Zaladobaze wava ivaniSvili da

rac ufro metad gaWimavs zambaras,

miT ufro mwared moxvdeba

es zambara cxvirSi.

saqarTvelosa da qarTveli

xalxis damarcxeba arc erT Sida

Tu gare dampyrobels ar gamouvida.

amas verc rusi oligarqi Se-

Zlebs. am brZolas xalxi moigebs!

_ opoziciis aqciebsa da msv-

lelobebs Tan axlavs incidentebi.

magaliTad, Tqveni mima-

rTulebiT isvrian kvercxebs.

kvercxis msrolelebs policia

ar amCnevs. samarTaldamcvelebi

igive pozicias Tu daikaveben,

„ocnebis” mier organizebuli

aqciis monawileebs Tqven Tu

dauSenT kvercxebs?

_ policia amaze aucileblad

moaxdens reagirebas, magram garwmunebT,

rom Cven msgavss arafers

CavidenT. Cvensa da „qarTul

ocnebas” Soris didi sxvaobaa _

Cven, maTgan gansxvavebiT, stabiluroba

gvinda, maT ki qaosi da

areuloba awyobT. amitomac maT

aqciaze arasdros mivalT da ar

vesvriT kvercxebs. migvaCnia, rom

yvela adamians aqvs sakuTari

azris gamoxatvis ufleba.

amas garda, Cven viciT, rom simarTlis

mxares varT da roca

marTali xar, arc cocxis srola

gWirdeba da arc _ kvercxis.

marTalia, „ocnebam” aseT dRe-

Si Caagdo qveyana, bevrjer dagvarbies,

gvesrodnen kvercxebs,

`mivmarTav am adamianebs: sad xarT, ratom ar

aprotestebT Zaladobas? raki Tqveni

sayvareli òcnebis~ policielma gaaupatiura

mamakaci, es saSineleba da ukanonoba ar aris?

cocxebis kadrebze xom kargad yvirodiT da

dRemde yvirixarT. dRemde imas gaiZaxian, rom

`nacebis~ dros 26.000 vaJkaci gaaupatiures

cixeSio, magram arc erT maTgans ar

daudasturebia sajarod, rom masze iZalades~

gvcemdnen, gviWerdnen, gvTxridnen

Tvalebs, magram minda, yvelas

vTxovo, rom Zaladobisgan Tavi

Seikavon. Cven xom maTgan gansxvavebulebi

varT. Tan rogor Sei-

Zleba, seriozulad aRviqvaT is

xalxi, romelic merve welia, xelisuflebaSi

aris da opozicias

aqciebs uwyobs? maT TanagrZnobiT

unda movekidoT.

_ TanagrZnobis garda, albaT,

arafers imsaxurebs maTi moTxovnebi.

isini 6 wlis win Tanamdebobidan

wasuli saakaSvilis gada-

dgomas iTxoven. arada, mas Semdeg

ukve ori prezidenti airCies.

_ es ukve sasaciloc ki aRar

aris. dae, mogviwyon aqcia, dae,

moiTxovon saakaSvilis gadadgoma.

Cven maT amaSi xeli ar unda

SevuSaloT. piriqiT, maqsimalurad

unda davexmaroT aseTi aqciebis

gamarTvaSi. amiT sazogadoeba

dainaxavs, Tu ra dReSi arian

ivaniSvili da „qarTuli ocneba”.

Cemi azriT, es aqciebi kidev erT

rameze miuTiTebs: „ocneba” xvdeba,

rom xelisuflebidan midis da

nel-nela iTavisebs opoziciis

rols. wesiT, opozicia unda uwyobdes

xelisuflebas aqciebs. „qarTuli

ocneba” Zalian male gadava

opoziciaSi, Tu saerTod ar

gaqra politikidan da rogorc

yvela opoziciuri partia, manac

unda gamarTos aqcia, Tu xelisufleba

ukanonobas Caidens. minda

mjerodes, rom am aqciebiT isini

opozicionerobaSi varjiSoben.

aba, sxvanairad rogor avxsna, rom

xelisuflebaSi mosvlidan merve

wels opoziciisa da saakaSvilis

gadadgomis moTxovniT aqciebs

awyoben? „qarTuli ocneba”, rogorc

mmarTveli Zala, dasrulebulia,

amas arCevnebze oficialurad

gaaformebs qarTveli xalxi.

_ „qarTuli ocneba” xelisuflebaSi

cocxebis kadrebis wy-

alobiT movida. es rom asea, amas

arc Tavad malaven. dRemde Cxu-

boben imaze, rom „nacionalebis”

dros kacebs aupatiurebdneno.

gasul kviras erTi Semzaravi am-

bis Sesaxeb gavigeT, policielma

iaraRis muqariT axalgazrda ma-

22

22 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


aqciebs uwyobs, is ukve damTavrebulia~

makaci gaaupatiura. moZalade

dakavebulia, magram sazogadoe-

ba amaze xmas ar iRebs. gansaku-

Trebul mdumarebaSi isini ari-

an, vinc cocxebis kadrebze dRe-

mde bolo xmaze kivis. es ras

niSnavs?

_ sanam am Semzarav faqtze visaubrebT,

minda Tavad cocxebis

kadrebis istoria gavixseno: „patriotTa

aliansis” erT-erTma

liderma, saqarTvelos parlamentis

wevrma giorgi lomiam, pirdapir

eTerSi ganacxada, rom cixis

kadrebi maT moipoves.

am gancxadebiT man daadastura,

rom es ambavi ar momxdara.

lomias gancxadeba „qarTul ocnebas”

ar gauprotestebia. dumili

Tanxmobas niSnavs.

policielis mier axalgazrda

mamakacis gaupatiureba Semzaravi

faqtia. danaSauli rom moxda, es

dadasturebulia, moZalade

dakavebulia. msxverpli saxezea

da is yvelafers Riad yveba.

xalxi, romelic mTeli am wlebis

manZilze yviroda, rom saakaSvilis

dros patimrebs aupatiurebdnen,

axla xmas ar iRebs.

mivmarTav am adamianebs: sad

xarT, ratom ar aprotestebT

Zaladobas? raki Tqveni sayvareli

„ocnebis” policielma gaaupatiura

mamakaci, es saSineleba da

ukanonoba ar aris? cocxebis kadrebze

xom kargad yvirodiT da

dRemde yvirixarT.

dRemde imas gaiZaxian, rom „nacebis”

dros 26.000 vaJkaci gaaupatiures

cixeSio, magram arc

erT maTgans ar daudasturebia

sajarod, rom masze iZalades.

dRes arsebobs axalgazrda mamakaci,

romelic ambobs, rom policielma

gaaupatiura. is moZalade

Tavad am xelisuflebam

daakava, magram protesti ar ismis.

es raRacaze miuTiTebs. es

niSnavs, rom maT gaupatiurebaze

yvirili mxolod opoziciis diskreditaciisTvis

surT.

_ cixeebSi 26.000 vaJkacis gau-

patiurebis Tema axseneT da vinc

amaze apelirebs, ver xvdeba, Tu

ramxela Seuracxyofas ayenebs im

adamianebs, romlebic saakaSvi-

lis dros cixeebSi isxdnen?

_ amas rom xvdebodnen, opozicias

aqciebs xom ar mouwyobdnen.

marto patimrobamoxdil adamianebs

miayenes Seuracxyofa? Tavisi

momxreebi Caagdes Zalian uxerxul

mdgomareobaSi. gasul kviras

anri oxanaSvili gamovida da

Tqva, _ opoziciis winaaRmdeg

aqciebs is axalgazrdebi awyoben,

romelTa mamebic „nacionalebis”

dros gaaupatiureso. warmoidgineT,

ra uxerxul mdgomareobaSi

Caagdes es axalgazrdebic da

maTi mSoblebic.

_ davijero, anri oxanaSvili

ver mixvda, ra reaqciebi moyve-

boda mis mier gakeTebul am

gancxadebas?

_ amaze arc ifiqrebda. mTavaria,

skamebi SeinarCunon da saku-

Tar mxardamWerebsac ar indoben,

maTi Rirsebis Selaxvasac ar

eridebian.

`nacionalebis~ momxre rom ar yofiliyo, arCil TalakvaZes samedicino

universitetSi studentur TviTmmarTvelobas aravin Caabarebda. arc

patriotTa banakebs gaakarebdnen. patriotTa banakebSi biZac CarTuli

hyavda. biZamisi am banakebis kvebis tenderebs tenderebze igebda. yvelam

kargad icis isic, rom parlamentis Tavmjdomare sandra rulovsis

TanaSemwedac muSaobda. aseTebi òcnebaSi~ mravlad arian da axla es xalxi,

vinc `nacionalebis~ dros skolaSi davdiodiT, sisxlismsmelebs, jalaTebsa

da destruqciulebs gveZaxis~

miuxedavad imisa, rom es axalgazrdebi

Cveni oponentebi arian,

Cven gviwyoben provokacias, Zalian

aRvSfoTdi, roca anri oxanaSvilis

es gancxadeba movismine. vin

aswavlaT ase yvelafris kadreba

an sad daibadnen, an sad gaizardnen,

ase rogor SeiZleba?!

oxanaSvili, romelic, Turme,

am gaupatiurebebis gamo Zalian

wuxs, dRes xmas ar iRebs im saSinelebaze,

romelic gasul kviras

moxda. rogor SeiZleba, daudasturebul

gaupatiurebaze protests

gamoxatavde, xolo dadasturebulze

xmas ar iRebde?!

am kiTxvas maT xSirad davusvam.

es kiTxva sazogadoebamac

unda dasvas. xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebma

da mxardamWerebma

keTili inebon da axsnan dumilis

mizezi. iqneb, imitom arian

Cumad, rom amis gaprotestebas

maTi interesebi Seewireba.

mTeli am wlebis manZilze

„qarTuli ocneba” „nacionalebs”

sisxlianebsa da kacebis gamaupatiureblebs

eZaxda. axla amis Tqmis

ufleba, ubralod, aRar aqvT.

maTi policia bavSvebs Tvalebs

Txris da maTi policia axalgazrda

mamakacs aupatiurebs.

dumiliT da xelis dafarebiT

am saSinelebas da sibinZureebs

ver gadafaraven. xalxi yvelafers

xedavs. „ocnebas” sazogadoebaSi

ra ndobac hqonda, isic ki

dakarga. axla ivaniSvilis xelisufleba

erT patara, wvril Zafzea

Camokidebuli. es Zafi Zalian

male gawydeba da „ocnebac” warsuls

Cabardeba.

_ isev 14 dekembris aqcias davubrundeT:

gamoJona informa-

ciam, rom „ocnebis” mxardamWerebma

SeiZleba opoziciis warmomadgenlebs

scemon. „nacionalebis”

gasamarTlebas rom moiTx-

oven, amas arc malaven. fizikuri

angariSsworeba Tu daiwyo, amas

rogor aRudgeba win opozicia?

_ Zaladoba opoziciam ki ara,

xelisuflebam unda aRkveTos.

maTgan aranair Zaladobas ar gamovricxavT.

Cven vecdebiT, rom

provokacias ar wamovegoT.

imis imedi Tu aqvT, rom vinmes

cemiT SevSindebiT, Zalian cdebi-

`mTeli am wlebis manZilze `qarTuli ocneba~

`nacionalebs~ sisxlianebsa da kacebis

gamaupatiureblebs eZaxda. axla amis Tqmis

ufleba, ubralod, aRar aqvT. maTi policia

bavSvebs Tvalebs Txris da maTi policia

axalgazrda mamakacs aupatiurebs~

an _ verc cemiT SegvaSines da

verc daWerebiT, verc Tvalebis

daTxriT. Zaladobaze Tu gadavlen,

amiT ufro male wavlen xelisuflebidan.

„nacionalebis”

dasjis moTxovnas rac Seexeba, am

moTxovnis dayeneba ukve Zalian

sasaciloa. merve welia, rac xelisuflebaSi

arian da riT ver

dasajes es „nacebi”? Tan sxvagan

sad mirbian „nacebis” dasasjelad,

jer sakuTar rigebSi myof „nacionalebs”

mixedon.

meeWveba, maTTvis cnobili ar

iyos, rom kaxa kalaZe mixeil

saakaSvils yvela nabijs „upravebda”,

maT Soris, 2007 wlis 7 noembris

darbevasac. es man sajarod

ganacxada da amis naxva internet-

Si yvelas SeuZlia.

_ amaze ityvis, es maSin gava-

keTe, roca, jer kidev, ubralo

biWuna viyavio.

_ ubralo biWuna iyo, axlac

aseTivea, oRond „nacionalebis”

erT-erTi saxe gaxldaT. arsad

erideboda saakaSvilisa da yofili

xelisuflebis reklamas.

Zalian amayobda imiT, rom maTi

saxe iyo. biZina ivaniSvili saer-

Tod „nacionaluri moZraobis”

mTavari sponsori gaxldaT da

yofili xelisuflebis namoqmedarze

masac unda moeTxovos pasuxi.

mas „nacionalebi” rom ar

daefinansebina, isini amdens ver

daaSavebdnen. im maJoritarebsac

mixedon, mTeli 9 weli „nacionalebis”

rigebSi rom iyvnen da maT

yvelaferze taSs ukravdnen.

„nacionalebidan” vinc dana-

Sauli Caidina, aucileblad unda

daisajon, magram Tu „nacionalobis”

gamo sjian adamianebs, maSin

sadamsjelo operacia „qarTuli

ocnebidan” unda daiwyos.

darwmunebuli var, rom Zalian

kargad ician TavianTi Tanapartielebis

warsuli. Tu ar ician,

mzad var, maTi warsulis garkvevaSi

davexmaro. amis gakeTeba

Zalian martivia, gadaxedon sivebs

da yvelaferi gairkveva.

„qarTuli ocnebis” wevrebis

70% „nacionalebis” dros sxvadasxva

Tanamdebobaze iyo daniSnu-

li. maTi CamoTvla Zalian Sors

wagviyvans. ramdenime maTgani ki

aucileblad unda gamovyoT, maT

Soris, parlamentis Tavmjdomare

arCil TalakvaZe.

_ rogorc amboben, is bobola

„naci” iyo.

_ asea. „nacionalebis” momxre

rom ar yofiliyo, arCil TalakvaZes

samedicino universitetSi

studentur TviTmmarTvelobas

aravin Caabarebda. arc patriot-

Ta banakebs gaakarebdnen. patriotTa

banakebSi biZac CarTuli hyavda.

biZamisi am banakebis kvebis

tenderebs tenderebze igebda.

yvelam kargad icis isic, rom parlamentis

Tavmjdomare sandra

rulovsis TanaSemwedac muSaobda.

aseTebi „ocnebaSi” mravlad

arian da axla es xalxi, vinc „nacionalebis”

dros skolaSi davdiodiT,

sisxlismsmelebs, jalaTebsa

da destruqciulebs gveZaxis.

rac unda, is dagviZaxon, maTi

azri saerTod ar gvainteresebs.

CvenTvis mTavaria xalxi da qveyana.

xalxma icis, vis ra aqvs gakeTebuli

im ybadaRebuli 9 wlis

manZilze. xalxma isic icis, Tu

vin dgas dRes simarTlis mxares.

ase rom, ras fiqroben biZina da

TalakvaZe, es TavisTvis Seinaxon.

saqarTvelo am brZolaSi aucileblad

gaimarjvebs. Cven ar davuSvebT,

rom es qveyana kidev

erTxel dabrundes rusul orbitaze.

es gamoricxulia!

_ saqarTvelo rusul orbi-

taze rom ar dabrundeba, amaze

is kadrebic metyvelebs, rac

Tqvens sasamarTlo procesze

vnaxeT. ramdenime axalgazrda

aqtivisti ideqiT da saqarTve-

los himns mRerodiT. es Zalian

emociuri suraTi iyo.

_ saxelmwifo himnis mimarTac

ucnauri damokidebuleba aqvs

„qarTul ocnebas”. axalgazrdebs,

vinc saqarTvelos himns vmRerivarT,

destruqciul Zalas gveZaxian,

xolo vinc igineba da Cxubobs,

isini angelozebad gamohyavT.

_ CxubiT da ginebiT ar ifarglebian,

erTma axalgazrdam „na-

cionalebs” eSmakis gandevnis

ritualic xom Cautara?

_ amaze komentaris gakeTebac

ki miWirs. biZina ivaniSvilis „angelozebisgan”

yvelaferia mosalodneli.

rac met aseT rituals

Caatareben, miT ufro cxadad

warmoaCenen TavianT namdvil saxes.

sazogadoeba isedac naTlad

xedavs, Tu ra gansxvavebaa Cvensa

da maT Soris. zustad ar vici, ra

aqvs „ocnebas” 14 dekembers Cafiqrebuli,

magram rac ar unda Caifiqron,

yvelaferi cudad SeutrialdebaT.

Cveni brZola samarTliania,

romelsac xalxTan erTad

movigebT. aucileblad mivaRwevT

imas, rom qveyanaSi arCevnebi demokratiulad

Catardes. amiT ivaniSvilis

reJimis dasruleba oficialurad

gaformdeba. „qarTuli

ocneba” ukve damTavrebulia.

rogorc TavSi vTqvi, xelisufleba,

romelic opozicias aqciebs

uwyobs, dasrulebulia.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

23

„qronika+~ esaubra leiboristuli

partiis kaxeTis xelm-

ZRvanel nikoloz vardoSvils.

aRmoCnda, rom kaxeTi kvlav

liderobs samTavrobo avtomobilebisTvis

gamoyofili xar-

jebis cifrebiT.

_ maSin, roca kaxeTSi adamianebs

saarsebo puric ar gaaCniaT,

ar aqvT saTbobi SeSa,

gvyavs aTiaTasobiT socialurad

daucveli, kaxeTis gubernatorma

irakli qadagiSvilma

gubernia profilaqtikad gadaakeTa.

_ konkretulad?

_ leiboristebi qadagiSvils

vpirdebiT, rom misi Semdegi

samsaxuri „xadavSikoba” iqneba.

axla ki ufro seriozulad da

detalurad minda avuxsna

Tqvens mkiTxvels, ra xdeba am

milionad Sefasebul profilaqtikaSi:

dRevandeli mdgomareobiT

kaxeTis arc erT municipalitetSi

municipaluri transporti

ar arsebobs, arada, kaxeTis

guberanatori Tavisi nazir-vezirebiT

imden benzins

wvavs avtomobilebSi, rom am

TanxiT, albaT, 10 avtobuss viyididiT.

swored amdeni siarulis

gamo avtomobilebi ucvdebaT

da maT SekeTeba sWirdeba.

_ ra ujdeba biujets am av-

tomobilebis SekeTeba?

_ arc meti _ arc naklebi,

milionis mexuTedi...

_ dazustebulad iciT?

_ ra Tqma unda amis dasturia

saxelmwifo Sesyidvebis

saagentoSi gamocxadebuli tenderi,

romelic a. w. 5 dekembriT

TariRdeba. iq qadagiSvilis

„cexi” iTxovs, rom satransporto

saSualebebisa da masTan

dakavSirebuli mowyobilobebis

SekeTebaSi kaxeTis mosaxleobam

209 308, 90 lari unda gadaixados.

es iciT, romeli gubernatoria?

_ mTeli qveyana daviTgarejis

dasacavad rom fexze

davdeqiT da is aramc Tu Cavida

iq, aramed gancxadebac ki ar

gaakeTa. ra iqneboda, erTi 20

litri benzini am saqmisTvisac

moexmarebina da Casuliyo garejSi!

ai, aseTia e. w. erovnul

moZraobis saxeliT mebrZoli

gubernatoris pozicia Cveni k-

ulturuli memkvidreobis keraze.

_ xom ar azviadebT?

_ faqtia, ar Casula! da faqtia,

Sesyidvebis saagentos vebgverdze

gubernatori gvTxovs,

rom misi Savi „prados” ” „paCeb-

„

nikebisa” da „razvalis tulkebis”

cvlaSi kaxelebma orasiaTasebi

vixadoT.

_ batono nikoloz, Tqven

gamoexmaureT Telavis munic-

ipalitetis meriis erT-erT

aqtivobas, romelic 20 person-

isTvis bakurianSi eqskursias

moicavs?

_ diax, asea, maT gamoacxades

7000 larad Rirebuli tenderi

da am faqts imiT amarTleben,

rom biujetSi e. w. naSTi, au-

Tvisebeli Tanxa darCaT. pirvel

rigSi is unda aRvniSnoT,

rom rodesac wlis dasawyisSi

vambobdi, rom biujeti arasworad

formirdeboda, amiT das-

24

maka mosiaSvili

599 97 25 55


turdeba dRes Cemi naTqvami. biujetSi

TiToeuli TeTri unda

iyos mkacrad gawerili da gaangariSebuli.

dRes ki, rodesac

Telavis municipalitetSi 7000

socialurad daucveli moqalaqe

gvyavs da am moqalaqeebs

meriam Tanxis ararsebobis gamo,

erTjeradi 50-lariani daxmareba

gauuqma medikamentebisTvis,

im dros, rodesac saTbobi SeSiT

daxmareba 300 laridan Camoiyvanes

100 larze, igive mizeziT,

Tanxebis ararsebobis gamo,

Cemi azriT, Svidi Tasi laris

gadaxda raRac eqskursiebze gaumarTlebelia.

rac Seexeba im

mosazrebas, rom TiTqos axalgazrdebi

mihyavT, romelTac

kargi moswreba hqondaT Telavis

saxelmwifo universitetSi,

nikoloz vardoSvili:

ìrakli

qadagiSvilma

gubernia

profilaqtikad

gadaakeTa~

`faqtia, Sesyidvebis saagentos vebgverdze gubernatori

gvTxovs, rom misi Savi `prados

prados~ `paCebnikebisa

paCebnikebisa~ da `razvalis

tulkebis~ cvlaSi kaxelebma orasiaTasebi vixadoT~

amisTvis Tavad universitets

SeuZlia dauniSnos maT stipendia

an waaxalisos isini.

ra SuaSia meria da universiteti?

universiteti aris sipi,

romelic ganaTlebis saministros

eqvemdebareba, xolo

Telavis municipalitetis meria

aris sajaro samarTlis iuridiuli

piri, romelsac calke

biujeti da konkretuli moqmedebis

gegma aqvs TviTmmarTvelobis

kodeqsiT.

magram me mainc mainteresebs,

_ romeli bavSvi wava aseT eqskursiaze,

roca 2019 wlis zafxuli

umZimesi iyo da studentebs

Tvalebi dasTxares rusTavelze?

Tqven vinmes gjeraT, rom

Telavis universitetis studentebs

ar eqnebaT solidarobis

gancda? ra Tqma unda, isini

solidarulebi iqnebian!

_ aba, vin aris is 20 adami-

ani?

_ mag amocanis amoxsna Tavad

municipalitets mivandoT da

davelodoT Sedegebs!

_ ras urCevdiT munici-

palitets?

_ leiboristebi movuwodebT

adgilobriv municipalitetSi,

usaqmurobis gamo, kompiuterul

TamaS „zumiT” gadaRlil

momuSave „qocebs”, gaauqmon es

raRac mavnebluri tenderi da

Tanxa im gaubedurebul, socialurad

daucvel mosaxleobaze

mimarTon, romelic axal wels

maTi usaqmurobisa da „zumis”

TamaSis gamo mSivrebi darCebian.

Torem xalxis mRelvareba im

zomamdea misuli, rom ketebiT

gamorekaven sakuTari kabinetebidan

da im simRerisa ar iyos,

bakurianic ukan darCebaT, Txilamurebic

da TovlSi srialic!

_ ufro konkretulad rom

mogviyveT, ra ganwyoba da vi-

Tarebaa regionSi?

_ konkretul magaliTebs

mogiyvanT: TelavSi arsebobs e.

w. legionis dasaxleba, anu samxedro

qalaqi, sadac cxovroben

yvelaze gaWirvebuli adamianebi,

ufro sworad, arseboben,

radgan maT yofierebas Tu naxavT,

amas cxovrebas ver daarqmevT.

gagacnobT mayvala valaSvils:

igi mravalSviliani dedaa,

romelsac saprezidento

arCevnebis win dahpirdnen, rom

simbolur fasad, 1 larad, gadascemdnen

binas, magram aramcTu

bina gadasces, aramed socialuri

daxmareba SeuCeres im

mizeziT, rom municipalitetis

mier micemuli 100 lari SeSis-

Tvis ar eyo da denis gamaTbobeli

CarTo, romelic sami Tvis

angariSiT sul 60 lars Seadgenda.

arada, qals saavadmyofoSi

ewva bavSvebi mZime daavadebiT

da swored am dros gamoiZaxes

socialur samsaxurSi,

rom daxmarebis Sewyvetaze xeli

moewerinaT! amaze didi mavnebloba

da Seubralebloba raRa

gindaT?!

ès iciT, romeli gubernatoria? -

mTeli qveyana daviTgarejis dasacavad

rom fexze davdeqiT da is aramc Tu

Cavida iq, aramed gancxadebac ki ar

gaakeTa. ra iqneboda, erTi 20 litri

benzini am saqmisTvisac moexmarebina

da Casuliyo garejSi! ai, aseTia e. w.

erovnul moZraobis saxeliT

mebrZoli gubernatoris pozicia Cveni

kulturuli memkvidreobis keraze~

24 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

Tamar rostiaSvili

577 10 07 06

muxaZis q. #2-Si mdebare ax-

alaSenebuli sacxovrebeli saxlis garSemo vnebaTaRelva ar

cxreba. amxanagobis Tavmjdomare zurab jaiani „qronika+~-sTan

pirvelad yveba im gauxmaurebeli detalebis Sesaxeb, Tu ra

TaRliToba da sisxlis samarTlis danaSauli moxda mSeneblobis

procesSi, razedac prokuraturas konkretuli pirebisTvis

dRemde brali ar wauyenebia da ris gamoc dRes adgi-

lobrivi mosaxleoba dazaralebulia.

zurab jaiani _ amxanagoba

„muxaZe2-is” Tavmjdomare:

_ amxanagoba Camoyalibda 2009

wels. misi mizani iyo, avariuli

Senobis adgilze sacxovrebeli

saxli agveSenebina, dagvekmayofilebina

adgilobrivi mosaxleebi

da investoris pirobebic gagveTvaliswinebina.

amxanagobis Camoyalibebamde

mobinadreebTan damakavSira

Tengiz nacvliSvilma.

miTxra, rom muxaZis quCaze mdebare

avariuli Senobis mcxovreblebi

Tanaxmani iyvnen, maT teritoriaze

aSenebuliyo axali sacxovrebeli

saxli, rom arsebobda

proeqti da ubralod unda gveSova

investori. Cems megobars davelaparake,

mas adgili moewona da

mezoblebTan molaparakeba daviwye,

rom farTebsa da fasebze CamovyalibebuliyaviT.

_ Tu proeqti arsebobda, e. i.

investoric hyavdaT. ram SeuSa-

la xeli mas axali Senobis

aSenebaSi?

_ diax, ar daumalavT, rom Cemamde

bevri investori iyo mosuli,

magram SeTanxmebas ver miaRwies.

mizezebi sxvadasxva gaxldaT,

magaliTad, erT-erTi mcxovrebi _

quCiSvilis deda _ 2-3-jer met

farTs moiTxovda, vidre hqonda.

rodesac proeqti momitanes, aRmoCnda,

rom es iyo proeqtis asli.

proeqtis am aslidan irkveoda,

rom Tu Cven ganvaxorcielebdiT

investicias, mxolod investiciis

Tanxa amoiReboda da danarCen

mogebaze laparakic zedmeti iyo.

miuxedavad amisa, investori da-

Tanxmda am pirobasac, vinaidan

adgilmdebareoba kargi iyo. asec

gadavwviteT me da Cemma investorma

megobarma _ rom marto binebi

dagvrCenoda. am droisTvis proeqti

vadis gasagrZeleblad meriaSi

gvqonda Cabarebuli, vinaidan 2006

wels „dizain studiam” Seqmna.

_ ki magram, es xom proeqtis

asli iyo?

_ magazec mogaxsenebT. „dizain

studia” zurab wereTels ekuTvnis

da me am proeqtis asli momces.

amis Semdeg wavediT, movawereT

xeli notariusSi, mezoblebTan

xelSekrulebebi gavaformeT

da saqmes SevudeqiT. am periodSi

Tengiz nacvliSvilma, romelic,

Tavis droze, Suamavli iyo quCiSvilsa

da Cven Soris, winadadeba

wamoayena, rom is amxanagobidan gavidoda

da Tavis kuTvnil or binazec

uars ityoda, Tu 100 aTas

dolars gadavuxdidiT. Cems partniors

davelaparake da daviTanxme.

_ Tengiz nacvliSvilma Suamav-

lobisTvis ori bina moiTxova?

_ diax, magram valdebulebebic

ikisra. mas evaleboda, rom unda

moetana proeqti, romelic meria-

Si iyo vadis gasagrZeleblad datovebuli

da mTlianad aeRo sakuTar

Tavze mSeneblobis proces-

Si teqnikuri zedamxedveloba. anu

proeqti mTlianad mas ebara Tavisi

xelismowerebiT, damtkicebebiT

da a. S. erTi sityviT, Cven davTanxmdiT,

misTvis 100 000 dolari

gadagvexada, mas Semdeg, rac

srulad Seasrulebda nakisr valdebulebebs

proeqtTan da teqzedamxedvelobasTan

dakavSirebiT.

amxanagobidan gasvla da binebze

uaris Tqma TavisTavad igulisxmeboda.

SevTanxmdiT amaze! daviwyeT

saxlis ngreva, saxuravi avxadeT

da meriidanac proeqti gamovitaneT.

aRmoCnda, rom proeqtSi

naCvenebi farTebi ar Seesabameboda

notariusSi gaformebul far-

Tebs, romelic saxlis dasrulebis

Semdeg unda gadagveca mobinadreebisTvis.

_ rogor moxda es acdena?

_ ar vici. proeqtze pasuxismgebloba

Tengiz nacvliSvils

CavabareT. proeqtSi ufro naklebi

farTebi iyo miTiTebuli, vidre

Cven maT notariulad gavuformeT.

gvindoda Tu ar gvindoda,

proeqtSi cvlilebebi unda

Segvetana. mivmarTeT „dizain studias”

da aRmoCnda, rom proeqtSi

fuli ar iyo gadaxdili, Cven unda

gadagvexada 50 aTasi dolari.

davibareT nacvliSvili da veubnebiT,

_ ki magram, Suamavali rom

xar da konkretuli valdebulebebi

gakisria, Tavidanve ratom ar

gviTxari, rom es proeqti SesaZeni

iyo da soliduri Tanxa Rirdao?

am dros, saxuravi gadaxdilia,

am xalxTan xelSekrulebebi

gaformebulia da qiriT gvyavs gayvanili.

isev Cems partniors davukavSirdi

da gadavwyviteT, rom

50 000 dolari migveca nacvliSvilisTvis

gadasaxdeli 100 000

dolaridan, ase faqtis winaSe rom

dagvayena. es rom gvcodnoda, saxlis

ngrevas xom ar daviwyebdiT?

mokled, gadavixadeT fuli da

SeviZineT proeqti, daviwyeT mas-

Si cvlilebebis Setana da rodesac

ukve proeqtis detalur ganxilvas

mivadeqiT, erT-erT mTavari

dokumenti aRmoCnda _ tyuili!

_ ras gulisxmobT, rom fiq-

tiuri dokumenti iyo?

_ diax! mTliani farTi teritoriis

iyo 700-ze cota meti da

dokumentSi ewera, rom iyo 800

kv.m-ze meti. anu 100 kv.m. wamatebuli

iyo. momiwia ukve amis Secvla

qalaqis meriaSi, Tanac Sua

mSeneblobis procesSi. daviwyeT

axali sabuTebis aReba! Zalian

cud mdgomareobaSi aRmovCndiT,

magram miuxedavad amisa, didi

wvalebisa da nerviulobis fasad,

davamtkicebineT proeqti, romelic

mezoblebTan gaformebul

farTebs Seesabameboda. am procesSi

movaxerxeT da Tengiz nacvliSvils

gadaveciT 50 aTasi dolari.

bunebrivia, meore 50 000 dolari

ar migvicia, vinaidan kinaRam

CaSala mTliani samSeneblo procesi,

roca proeqtis SeZenis ambavi

dagvimala. mokled, rodesac

proeqtTan dakavSirebuli davidareba

dasrulda, vuTxariT, rom

masze gaformebul or binaze eTqva

uari da Cems partniorze gadmoeformebina.

amaze Tengiz nacvliSvilma

uari ganacxada, _ 100

000 dolari gadamixadeTo! Cven

vuTxariT, _ ra 100 000 dolari _

50 000 dolari gadagixadeT da

isic ici, is 50 000 dolari sad

wavida _ proeqtis SeZenaSi-meTqi!

mokled, nacvliSvili uarze idga,

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


ratom ar uyenebs

prokuratura brals

xelmowerebis

gamyalbeblebs?

amitom moviwvie amxanagobis kreba

da misi garicxvis Taobaze davayene

sakiTxi. yvelam moawera xeli.

aq erTi detalia _ Tengiz nacvliSvili

ki iyo amxanagobis wevri,

magram binis farTebi notariuliad

mis Svilze _ arCil nacvliSvilze

iyo gaformebuli, romelic

saxlis mSeneblobis dasrulebamde

kaciSvils ar hyavda nanaxi.

_ sasamarTloSi sarCeli vin

Seitana?

_ 2012 wels axali xelisuflebis

mosvlisTanave, sajaro reestris

xelmZRvaneloba Seicvala

da damatebiTi sabuTebi mogvTxoves.

kerZod, gviTxres, rom vinaidan

amxanagobis wesdebaSi ar

iyo Cadebuli ama Tu im wevris

garicxvis punqti, amitom ver dagvimtkicebdnen

axleburad gadanawilebul

farTebs (sadac nacvliSvili

aRar figurirebda).

gvirCies, rom sasamarTlosTvis

migvemarTa da sasamarTlo wesiT

rom gairicxeboda nacvliSvili,

amis Semdeg reestrSic SegveZlo

Cagvebarebina sabuTebi. aviyvaneT

advokatebi, sasamarTlo procesi

daiwyo 2012 wels da 2016-2017 wwmde

gagrZelda. sasamarTlo davis

dros aRmoCnda, rom ra sabuTebic

mohqonda CvenTan Tengiz nacvliSvils

proeqtTan dakavSirebiT,

TiTqmis yvelaze xelmowera gayalbebuli

iyo.

_ anu viTom akeTebda da si-

namdvileSi ar akeTebda?

_ is, visac unda moewera xeli

_ mTavari arqiteqtori da a. S., _

imaTi xelmowerebi aRmoCnda gayalbebuli.

namdvilad ar megona,

sasamarTlos Tu wavagebdiT, magram

pirveli-meore instancia

wavageT. nino gvenetaZes werili

mivwere, mosamarTlis mimarT pretenzia

mqonda. Tengiz nacvliSvilmac

aiyvana advokati, romelic,

Tavis droze, TaRliTobaSi

iyo braldebuli da is policiaSi

Cem winaaRmdeg awerinebda sa-

Civrebs. amis Semdeg gancxadebiT

mivmarTe uSiSroebas, filauris

saxelze werili davwere. uSiSroebam

saqme prokuraturas gadasca,

prokuraturam ki _ policias, sadac

diRomSi mdebare ofisSi

damibares. iq sisxlis samarTlis

saqme aRiZra nacvliSvilis mxridan

sabuTebze xelmowerebis gayalbebaze.

prokuraturam sisxlis

samarTlis saqme aRZra. yvela daikiTxa,

magram brali dRemde aravisTvis

wauyenebiaT. metic: gayalbebul

xelis mowerebze kaligrafiuli

eqspertizac ar CautarebiaT.

_ saxlis mSenebloba dasrul-

da?

_ diax da 2012 wels mobinadreebi

Sesaxldnen.

_ Tqven da Tqveni megobari

investori ar SexvediT?

_ me iq Zalian miWirs Sesvla da

arc micxovria erTi dRe. arc investori

cxovrobs. am sasamarTlo

davebis gamo arc erT mezobels

bina ar aqvs gaformebuli. erTi

Tvis win nacvliSvilma isev moiTxova

im farTebis gadmocema da

sarCeli aRsrulebaze Seitana, vinaidan

sasamarTlo moiges. Cven

Sesagebeli SevitaneT mosaxleobis

saxeliT, sadac Tavidan movTxoveT,

sasamarTlos daedgina, vin

ra pirobebi ver Seasrula. am saqmem

mTeli Cemi janmrTeloba waiRo

_ davkarge mxedveloba da dRes

Tanamgzavris gareSe damoukideblad

ver gadavaadgildebi.

25


gagrZeleba, dasawyisi ix.

„qronika+” ##35-38.

„qronika+~ agrZelebs dekanoz

nikita TalakvaZis dRiuris gamoqveynebas.

SegaxsenebT, rom „lit-

eraturuli muzeumis” mier

wlebis winaT gamocemuli wigni,

„moqalaqe mRdvlis dRiurebi”,

rigi garemoebebis gamo, faqto-

brivad, farTo mkiTxvelisTvis

xelmiuwvdomelia.

masalaSi,

romelsac qvemoT warmogidgenT,

ZiriTadad, saubaria saeklesio

intrigebsa da kuluarebze. niki-

ta TalakvaZis SefasebebiT es

kuluarebi da faqtebi dRevande-

li gadasaxedidanac ki sakmaod

mZime gasaazrebelia da uamrav

„nacnob” Tu ucnob movlenas,

cnobil Tu sazogadoebisTvis

ucnob personas saerTod sxva

kuTxiT warmoaCens.

nikita TalakvaZe daibada medaviTnis

ojaxSi. 1889-1895 wleb-

Si swavlobda Tbilisis sasuliero

seminariaSi, 1895-1899 wlebSi

ki _ kievis sasuliero akademiaSi;

1899-1902ww. _ muSaobda quTaisis

sasuliero saswavlebelSi maswavleblad;

1902 wlis dekembris

pirvel ricxvebSi jer diakvnad

akurTxes, Semdeg ki mRvdlad

daasxes xeli da foTis wminda

aleqsandre nevelis saxelobis

sakaTedro taZris winamZRvrad

dainiSna; mama nikitam, mitrofane

laRiZis, sosiko merkvilaZisa da

sxvaTa daxmarebiT, aRadgina wminda

Tamar mefis xsovnis dRe da

Tamarobis dResaswauli.

nikita TalakvaZe iyo episkopos

kirion II-is (saZagliSvili)

Tanamoazre. aqtiurad monawileobda

avtokefaliur moZraobaSi.

1912 wels igi anCisxatis yovladwminda

RvTismSoblis Sobis saxelobis

eklesiis winamZRvrad ganamweses.

1917 wels mieniWa dekanozis

wodeba.

1917 wlis 8 marts mama nikitas

binaze Sedga saidumlo kreba,

romelsac eswrebodnen noe Jordania,

aleqsandre lomTaTiZe,

sosiko merkvilaZe da episkoposi

antoni (giorgaZe). krebaze gadawyda,

rom 12 marts sveticxovel-

Si gadaexadaT samSvidobo paraklisi,

xolo Semdeg waekiTxaT avtokefaliis

aRdgenis aqti.

1917-1920 wlebSi dekanozi nikita

iyo sakaTolikoso sabWos

wevri. igi gaxldaT sruliad

saqarTvelos kaTolikos-patriarqis

arCevnebis dros xmis damTvleli

komisiis Tavmjdomare da

pirvelma gamoacxada axlad aRdgenili

qarTuli eklesiis meTaurad

kaTolikos-patriarqi kirion

II (saZagliSvili). 1918-1921

wlebSi dekanozi nikita gamoir-

Ceoda aqtiuri moRvaweobiT, rac

gaagrZela qveynis gasabWoebis

Semdegac.

sabWoTa xelisufleba aviwroebda

uSiSrad mamxilebel moZRvars.

1922 wlis 17 oqtombers

qalTa saswavleblis direqtorma

igi maswavleblobidan daiTxova;

1924 wels dekanozi nikita aiZules,

daetovebina eklesia. igi jer

saqarTvelos finsaxkomis sabiujeto

ganyofilebis ufrosad

muSaobda, Semdeg _ kulturis

saministroSi. dekanozi nikita

iyo Tavisi drois SesaniSnavi mqadagebeli.

Cvenamde moaRwia misma

araerTma qadagebam. igi avtoria

Canawerebisa, romelic cnobilia,

rogorc „moqalaqe-mRvdlis dRiuri”.

(gagrZeleba)

ierarqTa ultimatumi

saeklesio krebas

aRsaniSnavia krebaze arqeolog

evTime (stili daculia, _ red.)

TayaiSvilis mowveva, raTa amas

Seegonebia krebisaTvis, rom saqarTvelos

eklesiebidan da monastrebidan

gadmoecaT mRvdlebs

mTavrobis moTxovnilebisamebr

mamapapaTagan dRemde daculi

ganZeuloba. evTimes sityva krebam

gaamasxarava, leonidma TayaiSvili

krebis winaSe miwasTan gaaswora

da ase galaxul-galanzRuli

wavida evTime krebidan; Semdeg,

menSevikebis qalaqidan gasvlis

wina dReebSi, evTimem gamoilaSqra

am Taobaze gazeT „saqarTveloSi”

gerasime imnaiSvilis winaaRmdeg,

romelsac mgoni gazeT

„miwaSi” mis sawinaaRmdego werili

moeTavsebia, sadac evTimes imnaiSvili

ukiJinebda eklesiis Ralats

da mTavrobis agentobas. evTimem

am werilis sapasuxod „provokatori”

uwoda imnaiSvils, sastiki

pasuxi gasca saeklesio krebasac

da kaT. leonidsac, mec zed mimaWylita,

vinaidgan sakaT. sabWos

mondomebiT eTnografiul sazogadoebaSi

1919 wels mowveul

TaTbirze am sakiTxis Sesaxeb movutane

is pasuxi da azri, romelic

damabara sakaT. sabWom _ es

winaaRmdegi iyo mTavrobisaTvis

eklesiis ganZeulobis gadacemisa,

Cven Tanaxmani viyaviT Cvens saeklesio

muzeumSi (romelsac exla

universiteti daepatrona) gadagveca

Zveli xelTnawerebi da

saarqeologio-saistorio naSTebi,

romelic sasoebis da Tayvaniscemis

sagnebs aRar Seadgenden

dRes Cvens taZar-monastrebSi. es

iyo da aris Cemi azri da ratom

mijavrdeba b. TayaiSvili, ver

gamigia; 1914 wlis dekemberSi vaxtang

RambaSiZem (eqimma) da me sastiki

winaaRmdegoba gauwieT mas,

rodesac dariis monasterSi krebaze,

anton episkopozis TavmjdomareobiT,

man gabeda da ganacxada,

rom TaTrebis Semosevis

SiSiT mTeli ganZeuloba da Cveni

muzeumebi moskovSi gadavitano-

To!.. aq metia komentarebi... esec

mware mogonebad aqvs Cemze TayaiSvils,

Tumca unda mimadlodes,

rom vixseniT is istoriul sikvdilisagan

da sircxvilisagan.

sazogadod SeniSnuli maqvs, rom

ramdenad sasurveli da pativsacemi

gvamia evTime, rogorc istorikos-

arqeologi da mkvlevari,

dekanoz nikita TalakvaZis

imdenad susti moqalaqe brZandeboda,

TviTmpyrobelobis drosac

da menSevikebis drosac; maSin

eqsarxosebs evleboda Tavze, Semdeg

menSevikebs uloliavebda,

rom maTi saxeliT Cveni eklesiebi

daecala ganZeulobisagan da

yvelaferi Tvis „eTnografiul-

Si” moeTavsebia! aseTi surviliT

Sepyrobili, is aRar dagidevda

ama survilis gasanaRdebel araviTar

saSualebebs!..

...bolSevikebis Semosevis win

magan Caibara TiTqmis mTeli gan-

Zeuloba da gahyva evropaSi, RmerTma

xeli moumarTos mas am Cven

fasdaudebel simdidris da

siamayis dacvaSi, magram Zlier

naklebi imedia, rom an es ganZeuloba

an TviT evTimec dabrundnen

saqarTveloSi...

saeklesio krebaze RirsSesani-

Snavi iyo erTi garemoebac _ ka-

Tolikozma leonidma da masTan

erTad yvela mRvdelmTavrebma

(daviTmac ki) erTxmad daemuqren

krebas, rom isini exlave yvelani

gadadgebian samsaxuridan, Tu

kreba ar aRudgens imaT ganusazRvrel

_ monarqiul- despotiur

uflebebs! aseTma mRvdelmTavrebis

saerTo gamosvlam da

muqaram mZime STabeWdileba moaxdina

krebaze, _ krebam aRudgina

mas despotiuri uflebani, moispo

mRvdelmTavrebTan saeparqio

sabWoebi, riTac namdvilad xelfexi

gaeSala eparq. kanceliariis

mdivnebs da ara mRvdel-mTavrebs...

es dalocvilebi TviT uvardebian

pirSi TavianT mdivnebs,

umagaTod TiTqos episkopozis

tvini aRar muSaobs, Tu mdivnebma

ar „urCies”, ise episkoposebi rezoliuciebis

dadebasac ki ver axerxeben!

ramdenad episkoposni mindobil-damonebulni

iyvnen mdivnebisagan,

imdenad sZuldaT maT

da ver egueboden kolegialur

dawesebulebis saSvalebiT da

daxmarebiT marTva-gamgeobis warmoebas.

me vfiqrob, rom am SemTxvevaSi

episkoposni isev TavianT

mdivnebis SegnebiT moqmedebden.

gaimarjves episkoposebma, moispo

saep. sabWoebi, magram, hoi sakvirvelebav,

dastoves saeparqio sasamarTloebi

da mospes sakaTalikozo

sasamarTlo _ umaRlesi

sasamarTloc imav sakaTolikozo

sabWos xelSi moaTavses... erTi sityviT,

ise Sescval-Semoscvales

marTva-gamgeobis debulebani, ise

usistemo-uazroT, rom bevrgvari

uswor-masworobaa Sig, bevrgvari

wina-ukmobaa azrTa da urTier-

TobaTa Soris... leonidma sastikad

moiTxova, raTa mRvdlebs Tma

da wverisaTvis makrateli ar exloT,

ar gaebednad anaforis

gareSe sxva tanisamosiT gasvlagamosvla

(rogorc es daadgina

pirvelma saeklesio krebam). erTi

sityviT, aseT wvrimalobaSi, ase

sakinklao sakiTxebSi daxurdavda

krebis saqmianoba. gadmodga „amerikeli”

dekanozi i. kapanaZe da

Tvisi mWeqare xmiT dalanZRa

mRvdlebis saqcieli da maTinaklulevanebani,

waukiTxa „moxseneba”

Tu rogor unda iyos mRvdeli

Sin Tu gareT, es yvelaferi

„uCitelnoe izvestiidan” hqonda

amoRebuli, namdvilad ki Tavisi

saxeliT asaRebda...

kreba-mitingi

saeklesio krebis sxdomebis

Sua nacional demokratebis liderebma

_ sp. kediam da gr. veSapelma

gamarTes eklesiaSi politikuri

mitingi. saqme imaSia, rom

sp. iyo am partiis memarcxene fr-

Tis lideri, romelsac organod

hqonda xelSi gazeTi „saqarTvelo”,

xolo memarjvene frTis

lideri iyo gr. veSapeli, romelic

xelmZRvanelobda gazeT

„kldes”... amas eZaxoden qarTvelebis

puriSkeviCs (veSapeli menSevikebs

gahyva evropaSi da exlac

iq aris); es ornive liderebi scdilobden

TavianT banakSi gadaeyvanaT

samRvdeloeba da sazogadod

morwmuneni; am saxiT eklesia

leonidma gadaaqcia n. d.

partiis saTareSo moednad, daumorCila

is politikur-partiul

zed-gavlenas, eklesia TiTqos

partiis brma iaraRad gaxda, ri-

Tac eklesiam sxva partiebisagan

daimsaxura ufro mwvave da mtruli

ganwyobileba. es didad saxifaTo

nabijad unda CaiTvalos _

eklesias da samRvdeloebas Tavisi

pirdapiri movaleoba ver

ucvniaT da partias ahkviatebia!..

Cemi „saqme” komisiaSi

TiTqos saeklesio krebam sxva

da sxva sakiTxebis dasamuSaveblad

komisiebi airCia, namdvilad

ki komisiis namuSevars prezidiumi

araviTar yuradRebas ar

aqcevda da yovelive ise mimdinareobda,

rogorc dek. k cincaZes

hqonda windawin „SemuSavebuli”!

erT komisiaSi, „iuridiulSi”,

iyo gadacemuli sakaT. sabWos

msjavri Cems Sesaxeb; am komisiis

xelmZRvanelad iyo amor-

Ceuli afaqiZe, iuristi, wineT mefisnacvlis

kanceliariaSi namsaxuri

moxele, exla Sinagan saqmeTa

saministros kanceliariis direqtori;

aq Sedioden samRvdelonic

da saeronic. am afaqiZem Seiswavla

Cem Sesaxeb saqme, waikiTxes

Cemi dasabuTebuli pasuxi 1920

wlis 2 ianvris Cem Sesaxeb sakaTsabWo-sasamarTlos

msjavrze;

metad dafiqrebuli iyo, ar icoda,

ra eqna; me mimiwvies da sityvieri

pasuxi momTxoves; miveci

saWiro ganmartebani; afaqiZem ase-

Ti fraza warmosTqva: „erTi SenisTana

erTguli kaci rom hyavdes

leonids, raRa gviWirdao! mamao,

Sen Sesaxeb nawarmoebi saqme yovelive

kanonierebis gareSe sdgas,

amiT sakaTolikozo sabWo-sasamarTlos

Tavisi Tavi gauwkeplia,

leonids ki metad utaqto saqme

Caudenia da dRes yovelive amis

Sesaxeb raime daskvnis gamotana

metad uxerxulia; Tu SevexebiT am

saqmes arsebiTad, maSin am saeklesio

krebis mTeli namuSevari unda

uarvyoT, pasuxisgebaSi mivsceT

damnaSave pirni im sxva da sxva

borotmoqmedebisaTvis, romelsac

Sen winaaRdgomixar; yovelive

amas unda gamoZieba, Seswavla, dokumentebiT

ganxilva, amis arc

dro aris exla da arc SesaZlebelia

es moxerxdes; saek. krebac

Cqarobs da ar vfiqrob, rom am

Sens sakiTxamde rigi mivides;

unda dakmayofilde Senive gulis

pasuxiT, imiT rasac Seni sinidisi

geubneba da nuRa gamoudgebi mag

saqmis krebaze garCevas”... Semdeg

p. goTuam, afaqiZem, TavdgiriZem,

p. CxeiZem da sxvebma SeimuSaves iseTi

rezoliucia, romelic

sruls reabilitacias miSoboda

me da saqmes mosaspobad urdgenda

saeklesio krebas, magram am

ukanasknelis sxdomebi iseTi aCqarebuli

tempiT mimdinareobden,

rom vinRa moismina Cem Sesaxeb rezoliucia,

grgvinviT moiTxoves:

„uyuradRebod iqmnes darCenili

es sakiTxio”! ai, riT gaTavda Cemi

26

26 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


amdeni xnis Sroma da brZola!

saek. krebam amiT Tavisi avtoriteti

damarxa, gaamefa TviTneboba

sakaT. sabWosi da kaTolikozisa!

vai, imas vinc amaT winaaRmdegobas

gaubedavs da sityvas Seubrunebs,

Tu gind qveyanas aqcevden

kidec!.. aseTive mwvave STabe-

Wdileba Seiqmna, rodesac didubis

mRvdel simon fxalaZis

apelacia ar moismina saekl. krebam

(es leonidis gardacvalebis

sami dRis wineT gardaicvala,

avaTmyof mRvdel fxalaZes eTqva:

„am dReebSi me da leonidi

orTaveni erTad warvsdgebiT

RvTis winaSeo”); saqme imaSia, rom

es fxalaZe zemoaRniSnul dek. i.

mirianovis macadineobiT leonidma

gamoagdo samsaxuridan, mR. fxalaZem

ver iSovna samarTali

Cvens eklesiaSi, mas arc saeklesio

krebam mousmina da daiRupa

wvril-col-Sviliani mRvdeli...

sakaTalikoso sabWos „arCevnebi”

Semdeg moxda sakaT. sabWos

wevrTa axali arCevnebi, Zveli

wevrebi arc ki gamoCenilan krebaze!

arc ingoroyva, arc p.

baraTaSvili, arc ivanicki _ es

„jamagiriani” subieqtebi; iyo krebaze

qr. kapanaZe... damasaxeles

sakaT. sabWos wevrobaze mec, magram

iqve Sevutane qaRaldi, rom

„me kenWs ar viyri da arc msurs

upasuxismgeblo dawesebulebaSi

wevroba”... airCies axlebi, ZvelTagan

darCnen: kaT. leonidi da

dek. cincaZe, amaT miemata ep. daviTi,

romelic dek. Cito kasraZem

urbnisis eparqiidan gamoagdo

faqtiurad, iseTi saCivrebi da

saqmeebi hqonda ep. daviTis

winaaRmdeg (es mec maCvena da qr.

kapanaZesac wineT), rom leonidma

urCia, TviT gamosuliyo samsaxuridan

da sakaT. sabWoSi Seafarebies

Tavi, dek. kasraZe ki (ep.

pirosis siZea) gamovida da krebaze

„madloba” gadauxada eparqiis

saxeliT „keTilnayofier moRvaweobisaTvis”

ep. daviTs! aseTi

sazizRari Tvalmaqcoba Caidina

dRisiT, mzisiT!.. eriskacTagan

airCies partiis liderebi: kedia,

veSapeli, afaqiZe, mRvdelTagan

baqodan beniamen kontriZe, romelic

arc ki Camosuliyo jer sam-

SobloSi, iq rusebis samsaxurSi

iyo, exla ki aRar edgomeboda

bolSevikebis SiSiT da imisi kandidatura

wamoayena davidovma!

dek. m. tyemalaZe ki davidovis

meoxebiT _ „kandidatad”, kandidatadve

airCies dek. i. kapanaZe,

d. kasraZe, n. TavdgiriZe (exla ki

namdvili wevrebi wavid-wamovidnen

da „kandidatebs” darCaT bur-

Ti da moedani”, dek. i. mirianovic

ki sakaT. sabWos wevrad iqca

„kandidatobisgan” da eseni yvelani

dRes, es striqonebi ro iwereba,

mesame saeklesio krebaze arian

gelaTSi 1921 welSi.

kaT. leonidma saekl. krebaze

gaimarjva _ uxmod likvidacia

uyo kirion-antonis-timoTe-mirianis

daRupvas, pasuxic aravin

`moqalaqe-mRvdlis dRiuri~

mosTxova! Tvisi ukanono arCevnebi

krebas daadasturebia, „uflebebi”

aRadgina, vinc ar esiamovneboda,

is pirebi Tavidan moagdebina

da madloba Seswira krebas:

„madlobeli var krebisa, iseTi

pirni amomirCia krebam sakaT. sabWoSi,

rom me maTTan SevsZleb

nayofier muSaobasao”... kreba

daixura; delegatebis erTma

jgufma gazeT „saxalxoSi” moaTavsa

vrceli protesti am krebis

dadgenilebaTa winaaRmdeg, is gamoacxada

aSkara reaqcionerad,

Savrazmulad da Tvisi „reformebic”

wamoayena sazogadoebis

sayuradRebod; amis meTaurebi

iyvnen zemoaRniSnuli delegatebi

dek. sp. lekveiSvili, dek. ep.

CxaiZe da sxvebi; me arc amaT

ricxvSi Sevdiodi, arc momiweria

xeli maT protestze; es protesti

maT saeklesio krebasac

warudgines, magram krebam ar moismina

is...

gaimarjva leonidma, magram

damarcxda Cveni eklesia, is waiqca

da CaifuSa mis xelSi. aravi-

Tari muSaoba, araviTari Taosnoba,

araviTari xalisi ar gamouCenia

axal sakaT. sabWos; wvrebi arc

ki eswreboden sxdomebs! SerCa

sabWo xelSi isev dek. k. cincaZes

da „gamges” kancelariisas dek.

nacvalovs; „qvorumi” sam kacamde

Seamcires; iyo mainc maT Soris

SfoTi, Setakebani da usiamovnebani;

dek. k. cincaZe „opoziciaSi”

Casdga! aqedan unda vigulisxmoT

Tu ra saxe da mimarTuleba miiRo

axalma sabWom da misma Tavmjdomarem!

erTi sityviT, gamefda

sruli uilajoba, sruli usaqmuroba;

„saqmobda” mxolod

davidovi Tavis sakeTildReod,

jibis da gemovnebis dasakmayofileblad;

„saqmobda” sanTlis

qarxnis „gamge” dek. al. miqelaZe,

romelmac milionebi SeiZina Cveni

qarxniT, TviT qarxana ki daRupvis

karamde miiyvana; amas mfarvelobda

da mgoni „qafSi” xelic

eria davidovsac da dek. cincaZesac!

am mixla-moxlaSi da qiSpobaSi

Cveni eklesiis gorizontze Tavi

wamohyo qvaSveTis meore dek. dim.

lazriSvilma! es aris seminariis

pirvel klasidan uniWobis gamo

daTxovnili, me damixvda is seminariaSi,

darCa isev pirvel klas-

Si da gamoricxes... Semdeg sionSi

iyo mTavardiakonad, dek. elievis

(renegatis) naTesavi da agenti;

Semdeg am elievma qvaSveTSi mouxerxa

jer mTavroba, mere mRvdlad

ikurTxa dek. cincaZem;

lazriSvilma „cxovrebis niWi”

gamoiCina CarCoba-spekuliantobaSi,

omis dros is iyo gospitlis

mRvdlad ruseTSi, iq fulebi iSovna,

mkvdarsa da cocxal jariskacebs

sZarcvavda da mogvevlina

isev qalaqSi; leonidma dekanozoba

uboZa da daiaxlova, sakaT. sabWos

sameurneo nawilis „direqtorad”

airCies, aman sanTlis

qarxana xelidan gamoacala miqelaZes,

TviT Caigdo xelSi, moaxerxa

am qarxnis gamobruneba, fexze

dayeneba, magram saSiSia, rom

bolos TviTve ar gamoxras es

qarxana; aqedan jamagirebi gauCina

kaTolikozs, wevrebs, moxeleebs,

TviTonac iRebs, SublaZe

dekanozic miiwvia „sameurneo”

nawilSi da daiwyes farTi-fur-

Toba. am dros uwia bolSevikebis

Semosvlam, kaTolikozma dagvtova,

wevrebi _ gaiqc-gamoiqcen,

razedac zemodac gvqonda laparaki;

kaTolikozis tfilisSi dabrunebis

Semdeg lazriSvili

Seudga eklesiur cxovrebis

„gamococxlebas” (es saarakoa

pirdapir!); quTaisSi yofnis dros

leonids gadauwyvetia saeklesio

krebis mowveva gelaTis monasterSi,

krebis mowvevis dro axlovdeboda,

mzadeba ki krebisaTvis

ara iyo ra;

kaT. leonidi da me

am dros Sevatyve, rom leonidma

Cemsken ibruna piri, is scdilobda

isev Cems mimxrobas, erTi

SemTxveva iyo aseTi: mTavarxuces

gr. giorgiZes gardaecvala vaJi,

studenti universitetisa, es

naTluli iyo leonidisa; wirvaze

mobrZanda leonidi, mwirveli ar

brZandeboda; mgaloblebi ver iSovnes

wirvaze da me mimiwvies

sakurTxevelSi, sadac leonidma,

me da lazriSvilma mTeli wirvis

wesi vigalobeT; anderZze Seimosa,

anderZic erTad vigalobeT;

vatyob, leonidi tkbilad, alersianad

mepyroba da mikvirda, ra

moxda, es ra ambavia Tqo! amis Semdeg

ar gasula bevri xani da 1921

w. 19 ivniss leonidma damibara

Tavis sasaxleSi; mec veaxeli: misalmebis

Semdeg gamiwvia ukana aivanze,

romelic baRSi gadis, damsva

iq skamze da damiwyo musaifi

(momikiTxa: col-Svili rogora

gyavso da verc ki davasrule pasuxi,

is ucbad orTave muxlebze

daeca da SemZaxa: „mamao nikita!

Segcode!.. Semindev! mapatie!..

borotma adamianebma Seni Tavi

SemaZules, Senze bevri ciliswameba

davijere... bevri Seuracxyofa

mogayene... dagamcire... gdevnidio”

da daiwyo tirili!.. me erTxans

gaognebuli viyavi... bolos gamoverkvie

da mec muxlebze daveci,

mec Sendoba da patieba vsTxove...

gadavexvieT agre erTmaneTs

da vitireT. Semdeg damisva gverdiT,

damiyvava, Tavze xels misvamda,

mkerdze mekvroda da mibrZana:

exla saqmes SeudgeTo da...)

Seexo eklesiis unugeSo mdgomareobas,

„erTi aTi weliwadi kidev

da Cven ganaTlebuli mRvdeli

aRar gveyolebao; Tu am xuT-eqvs

welSi ara ifiqreT ra qalaqis

samRvdeloebam, Semdeg Tqvenc

mouZlurdebiT da veRaras SeqmniTo.

aucileblad mimaCnia enkenisTvidan

sasuliero seminariis

daarsebao; me gadavswyvite, rom

seminariis gaxsna da marTva-gamgeoba

Sen mogandoo; vinc ginda is

miiwvies maswavleblad da rogori

programiTac gsurs imiT aswavleo,

mxolod gTxov, rom Cveni

saswavlebeli nu iqneba Sabloniuri,

is saqmisa da praqtikuli

xasiaTis unda iyoso; sanTlis

qarxnidan Tviurad milionze met

fuls mogixerxebo; pirvel xaneb-

Si, dee, cota iyos mowafeni, TavianTi

Cacma-daxurviTa, mxolod

yoveldRiuri puri da bina ki Cven

unda mivawodoTo; am dReebSi aR.

saqarTvelos saeparqio kreba

myavs mowveuli, warmomadgeneli

myavs gamowveuli alaverdis eparqiidanac

_ damexmare am krebaze,

SevagonoT samRvdeloebas, rom

man puri gviwilados Tavisi dramidan;

TviTon Tu imdens iReben,

rom blomadac hyidian, Cvenc

mogvcen cotaodeni, vasazrdooT

kaTolikozic, misi sabWo _ moxeleni

da seminariis maswavlebelmowafenio”!..

am Temaze bvri ilaparaka

aw gansvenebulma, memudareboda,

mexveweboda xalisianad

Sevgebebodi miss aseT winadadebas!

me gakvirvebuli, gaSterebuli

saxtad viyavi darCenili,

Cemi arc yurebisa mjeroda da

arc Tvalebisa! amas meubneboda

is adamiani, romelmac miwasTan

gamaswora, davidovs gaajeknia

Cemi pirovneba, werilobiTi gancxadeba

Seitana sakaT. sabWoSi Cems

„uniWoba-uunarobaze” 1919 wels,

xolo 1920 w. 2 ianvars momiwyo

zemoaRniSnuli Tavdasxma sakaT.

sabWo-sasamarTlosi da sabWodan

gamaZeva!.. me madloba movaxsene

ndobisaTvis... isev gamawyvetia

sityva da mommarTa: „gavige,

sofelSi apireb Turme gadasvlaso

(s. askanaSi), marTalia exla

aq Zlier giWirT mRvdlebs cxovreba,

soflad sjobia, magram

vis utovebT am Tqvens deda-qalaqs,

ra uflebiT zrunavT mxolod

Tqvens Tavze da ara saerTo

saqmeze; ar ifiqro sadme wasvla,

sulerTia fexs ar mogacvlevineb

aqedano, ras ityvis xalxi, mteri

an moyvareo”? _ me upasuxe: „mar-

Talia samSoblo sofelSi mepatiJebian,

iq Cems ojaxSi ufro

kargad vigrZnob Tavs, magram jer

pasuxi ar mimicia da mikvirs,

Tqven vin SegawuxaT aseTi ambebiT

Tqo! mec ufro imitom viTmen

amden ubedurebas, xalxis mrcxvenia

da qveyana mecodeba, rom

dRes miss samsaxurs gaveqce, magram

aqac rom arafers vakeTeb da

usaqmod amomdis suli, ma ra unda

vifiqro Tqo! me Tqveni winadadeba

sagulisxmod mimaCnia, magram

vSiSob, rom Cven Soris isev aam-

Rvreven wyals da ganmeordeba

Zveli istoria Tqo”... magisi dardi

nu geqneba, Sen Seni saqme geqneba

Seuvalad, Sen mxolod CemTan

geqneba saqme sxvasTan aravisTan.

Zveli ambebi usaTuod unda daviviwyoT,

gTxov is aRar momagonoT,

axali saqme axal niadagze

davayenoTo”. amaze miuge: „raRa

meTqmis amis Semdeg, garda imisa,

rom me sruls Tqvens gankargulebaSi

miguleT da rac Seme-

Zleba Tavs ar davzogav, rom

raime saqme Sevqmna, Tqveni mondomileba

ganvaxrcielo Tqo”...

didis guliTadi salmiT davSordiT

erTmaneTs da 1 ivlisisaTvis

saeparqio krebac Seikriba;

gagrZeleba 30-e gv.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

27

sasuliero akademiasa da semi-

nariaSi arsebul problemebze

„qronika+~ Teolog giorgi tigi-

naSvils esaubra:

_ sazogadoebisTvis sasuliero

seminariasa da akademiaSi problemebis

arsebobis Sesaxeb cnobilia,

Tumca am problemebis konkre-

tuli detalebi ucnobia. Cveni

saubaric swored amiT daviwyoT.

_ 2018 wlis 5 Tebervals sasuliero

seminariisa da akademiis

kursdamTavrebulTa garkveulma

nawilma, 25-ze metma adamianma, totaluri

usamarTlobisa da ganukiTxaobis

gamo, sajarod gamovaqveyneT

ToTxmetpunqtiani sabraldebo

werili protopresviter

giorgi zviadaZis dakavebuli Tanamdebobidan

gadayenebis moTxovniT,

romelic kaTolikos-patriarqsa

da mis qorepiskoposebs

gaegzavna, Tumca uSedegod. werilSi

uklebliv yvela sakiTxze

gvqonda argumentebi, samxilebi da

mtkicebulebebi. eTikuri da sulieri

faqtorebidan gamomdinare,

Tavi SevikaveT sisxlisa Tu samoqalaqo

samarTlebrivi mokvlevisgan

da Segnebulad ar mivmarTeT

prokuraturasa da saxalxo damcvelis

aparats, radgan pirvel

etapze Sida korporaciul sivrce-

Si movindomeT sakiTxis reaqtualizeba

da konfidencialuri ganxilva,

pativi veciT eklesiis Sinaganawessa

da qcevis kodeqss da es

maSin, roca SegveZlo, bevrad ufro

mkacri da xisti damokidebuleba

gamogveCina da, minimum, sasamarTlo

darbazSi SevxvedriliyaviT

braldebul giorgi zviadaZes.

Tumca, im etapze, es ar gavakeTeT.

ar gamovricxav, rom samomavlod

xsenebul instanciebsac mivmar-

ToT, radgan im tipis danaSaulebs

xandazmuloba ar gaaCnia.

_ sazogadoebas kidev erTxel

gavaxsenoT, Tu ra sakiTxebzea

saubari?

_ studentTa daSineba, riTac,

qristianulis nacvlad, maTSi monuri

fsiqikis Camoyalibebis safrTxe

iqmneba! studentTa fizikuri

da moraluri Seuracxyofa,

Zaladoba xeliT SexebiT da uSveri

sityvebiT; urC pedagogTa saxalxod

da umkacresad dasja, rac maTi

leqciebidan CamoSorebasa da avtoritetis

SelaxvaSi gamoixata.

gansakuTrebul samiznes warmoadgens

dasavleTis wamyvan universitetebSi

ganaTlebamiRebuli pedagogebi

da pedagogobis msurveli

kandidatebi; samecniero sabWos

fiqtiuri arseboba; reqtoris piradi

mosazreba sabWos gadawyvetilebaze,

mis Sinaganawessa da qcevis

kodeqsze maRla dgas, ris gamoc

sabWos Sekrebebi savsebiT ufunqcio

da azrsmoklebulia; studentTa

saerTo sacxovreblis umZimesi,

antisanitariuli da antihigienuri

mdgomareobis fonze, ZviradRirebuli

avtomanqanis _ 55

aTas larad Rirebulis _ saswavleblis

sabiujeto saxsrebiT SeZena;

saxezea savaraudo korufciisa

da finansuri manipulaciis niSnebi,

romelic, ZiriTadad, reqtoris

pirad komforts emsaxureba; reqtoris

mier saswavleblis finansuri

resursis saTavisod, aramiznobrivad

gankargva da gamoyeneba,

arakompetenturi da arakvalificiuri

pirebis dasaqmeba samaswavleblo

Tu sxvadasxva administraciul

poziciaze; sasuliero

saswavleblis diplomebis umaRlesi

SefasebiT, proteqciiTa da Caw-

28


sasuliero akademia-seminariis koSmarebi

koka wereTeli

yobiT gacema iseT pirebze, romelTac

saswavlebelSi saerTod

arasodes uswavliaT. magaliTisTvis

batoni giorgi andriaZec kmara;

kaTolikos-patriarqis saxeliT

studentTa daSinebisa da daSantaJebis

politikis warmoeba; studenturi

TviTmmarTvelobis ararseboba;

reqtoris mier leqciebis

aramarTebulad Catareba; leqciaze

dagvianebiT Semosvla; leqciis

adre dasruleba da misi xSiri

gacdena; gacvliTi programebis

ararseboba; pedagogTa kvalifikaciis

amaRlebis saSualebis ardanergva;

sazRvargareTis Teologiur

saswavleblebTan TiTqmis

ararsebuli urTierTobebi; saer-

TaSoriso forumebsa Tu saRvTismetyvelo

konferenciebze monawileobis

armiReba, rac, rogorc

pedagogis, aseve studentebis swavlebis

xarisxze mwvaved aisaxeba;

stipendiis ararseboba da kaTolikos-patriarqis

reqtorobis dros

ramdenime studentis sastipendio

Tanxebis miTviseba; amJamindeli

reqtoris, anu protopresviter

giorgi zviadaZis dros saswavlo

infrastruqturis, teqnikuri bazisa

da gamarTuli biblioTekis

ararseboba.

_ yvela es sakiTxi Zalian

problemuria, Tumca am Temaze

mxolod Tqven ar saubrobT...

_ diax! mimdinare wlis 7 Tebervals

reqtorma zviadaZem oficialurad

wamoiwyo Teolog goCa

barnovis devna-Seviwroeba da saboloos,

igi saswavleblidan gaaZeva.

goCa barnovs sistema ver patiobs

ukrainis eklesiis avtokefaliisadmi

mxardaWeras da axalgazrda

studentebis xelSewyobas,

romlebic misi rekomendaciiT saz-

RvargareTis, anu ararusul saswavleblebSi

saRvTismetyvelo codnas

imaRleben. imis nacvlad, rom

aseT jansaR adamianebs gaufrTxildnen

da madlierebiT moepyran,

maT aviwroeben da karisaken miu-

TiTeben, es ki sxva araferia, Tu

ara diqtatura da perspeqtivis

dasamareba, rasac morwmuneebSi, mxolod

da mxolod, imedgacrueba

moaqvs. marTali iyo balzaki, roca

ambobda, _ iq, sadac yvela kuziania,

iyo gamarTuli, simaxinjed iTvleba.

SemaSfoTebelia, roca Seqmnili

koniunqtura da cenzura adamianebs

arTmevs im umTavres sulier

saboZvars, Tavisuflebas,

romelic RvTiTminiWebuli wyalobaa

da ara romelime uwyebis administraciis

mier naCuqari.

_ es sadamsjelo RonisZiebebi

ras emsaxureba?

_ aravin gabedos da ukrainis

eklesiis avtokefalias mxari ar

dauWiros, aseve aravin unda ifiqros,

rom Tavisufali azris

giorgi tiginaSvili:

`kremlis imperialisturi

da kolonialisturi

zraxvebi mudamJams

moRalate da karieristi

personebis bazaze idga~

gamoTqmis SemTxvevaSi rame SerCeba

da, ra Tqma unda, imasac, rom

niWieri adamianebi, iniciativiani

pedagogebi da konstantinopolTan

megobrul urTierTobaSi myofi

pirebi aucileblad daisjebian.

_ giorgi, seminaria-akademiaSi

arsebul problemebze saubrob da

konkretizacias axden, magram am

konkretizaciis miRma arsebuli

viTareba rogoria?

_ yvela Tanxmdeba, rom Tbilisis

sasuliero seminariasa da akademiaSi

sabWoTa nomenklaturisTvis

damaxasiaTebeli reJimi,

cenzura da ideologizebuli atmosferoa,

anu iq adamiani ar miiCneva

pirovnebad, Sesabamisad, yvelas,

vinc Tavisufali da gansxvavebuli

azris mqonea, vinc morCilebas

monobasTan ar aigivebs, vinc

prorusuli orientaciis araa,

vinc damoukidebeli inteleqtualia

da vinc, ubralod, profesiuli

keTilsindisierebisa da patiosani

moqalaqeobis prizmidan

msjelobs, visac, ubralod, gansxvavebuli

azri da pozicia aqvs,

misi stigmatizeba, devna-Seviwroeba

da „kuWkuWis sasamarTloze”

gasamarTleba iwyeba. cxadia, mosamarTlis

bula araviTar gadaxedvas

ar eqvemdebareba, ucdomelobis

primatis mqone „neoCudeck”

zviadaZes vgulisxmob. igi isteroidulad

cxardeba, roca bednier,

kvalificiur da Rirseul adamians

awydeba.

aqve isic unda iTqvas, rom arsebobs

seriozuli safrTxe saqarTvelos

samociqulo avtokefaliuri

marTlmadidebeli eklesiis

sruli TviTizolaciisa da deklarirebuli

rusifikaciisa, rac

renegati da rezidenti rusofilebis

daucxromel mzaobas warmoadgens.

kremlis imperialisturi

da kolonialisturi zraxvebi

mudamJams moRalate da karieristi

personebis bazaze idga da axlac

asea. calsaxad da erTmniSvnelovnad

unda aRiniSnos, rom

wminda sinodsa da sapatriarqos

samdivnoSi latenturi Tu gacxadebuli

kirilistebis konspiraciuli

jgufi arsebobs, romelic

dReniadag okupanti qveynisa da

„velikoZerJavuli” eklesiis direqtivebiT

moqmedebs, eweva „wminda

ruseTis” ideis agitacia-propagandas

da sazogadoebis dezorientirebas

axorcielebs.

_ es jgufi, mainc, vin aris?

_ ruseTSi gazrdil-aRzevebuli

mosaydre Sio mujiri, quTaTel-gaenaTeli

ioane gamrekeli,

romlis demagogiac yovelgvar zRvars

gascda; gorisa da atenis mitropoliti

andria gvazava, romelmac

yvelaferi ikadra, raTa kretis

krebaze saqarTvelos eklesiis

delegacia ar wasuliyo; sxalTeli

mTavarepiskoposi spiridon

abulaZe, romelsac, amavdroulad,

eretikuli cnobiereba aqvs; biznesmenebi:

levan vasaZe da vano CxartiSvili;

mdivan-referanti Sorena

TeTruaSvili da misi fsevdokulturuli

wre yvelafers

akeTebs konstantinopolis diskreditaciisa

da marginalizebisTvis,

Tanac sakmaod groteskulad,

arakvalificiurad da arakompetenturad

moqmedeben, yovelgvari

argumetaciis gareSe srul

ignorirebas axdenen kanonikuri

samarTlisa da istoriuli safuZvlebisa,

romelTa Tanaxmadac ukrainis

eklesias apriori da eWvgareSe

ekuTvnis avtokefaliuroba.

es, arc meti, arc naklebi, sajaro

lustraciaa maTi, vinc yovelTvis

ideologizebul rwmenasa da zneobasa

da konservatizms amofarebul

„kakebeSnikur” narativs tira-

Jirebda mrevlsa da sazogadoeba-

Si.

_ ukrainis avtokefaliis mx-

ardaWera aseTi mniSvnelovani

ratomaa?

_ im SemTxvevaSi, Tu evqaristiul

da locviT erTobaSi ar

SevalT ukrainis eklesiasTan, amiT

retrospeqtiulad uars vetyviT

`ruseTSi gazrdil-aRzevebuli mosaydre Sio

mujiri, quTaTel-gaenaTeli ioane gamrekeli,

romlis demagogiac yovelgvar zRvars gascda;

gorisa da atenis mitropoliti andria gvazava,

romelmac yvelaferi ikadra, raTa kretis

krebaze saqarTvelos eklesiis delegacia ar

wasuliyo; sxalTeli mTavarepiskoposi spiridon

abulaZe, romelsac, amavdroulad, eretikuli

cnobiereba aqvs; biznesmenebi: levan vasaZe da

vano CxartiSvili; mdivan-referanti Sorena

TeTruaSvili da misi fsevdokulturuli wre

yvelafers akeTebs konstantinopolis

diskreditaciisa da marginalizebisTvis~

da davgmobT 1917 wlis saqarTvelos

eklesiis gafarToebul krebas,

sadac iveriis eklesiis nanatri

avtokefalia gamocxadda,

romelsac, sxvaTa Soris, swored,

koniunqturisa da rusuli agresiis

SiSiT saerTaSoriso legitimacia

da aRiareba ar hqonda, amdenad,

nu wavalT Cvenive istoriuli

gamocdilebis winaaRmdeg da samarcxvino

ritorikiT, _ komisia

Seiswavlis da davelodebiT sxva

eklesiebso, _ nuRar gamovalT,

sircxvilia!

Tbilisis sasuliero seminariasa

da akademiaSi arsebuli teroris,

despotizmis, arakvalificiurobis,

Zalmomreobisa da gamrudebuli

mdgomareobis aRmosafxvrelad

Cven vibrZviT uangarod,

gulwrfelad, patiosnad da akademiurad.

Cveni moTxovnebi savsebiT

relevanturi, zneobrivi, alalmarTali

da kanonieria. Cven ar

viTxovT rame gansakuTrebuls da

ar veZebT merkantilur sargebels.

Cven mxolod sazogado saqmis gajansaRebis

motivacia gvamoZravebs.

Cven ar vebrZviT calkeul,

Tundac, usindiso pirovnebebs,

aramed vewinaaRmdegebiT damRupvel

sistemasa da dacemul reJims,

romelsac mrevlis samwyso zoologiur

cxvrebad warmoudgenia

da romelic yvelafers kadrulobs,

rom sicruiT, konformizmiT,

ciliswamebiTa da SantaJiT gavides

fons, magram amas, RvTis

madliT, ver SeZleben.

_ ase ratom fiqrobT?

_ tabu moixsna, xalxi daiRala

iudebis gamyidvelobiTa da kaiafebis

farisevlobiT. simarTle

aucileblad izeimebs, radgan misi

fesvebi RmerTSia da SeuZlebelia,

usamarTlobam mudmivad iTareSos.

boroteba Zlieri imitomaa, rom

yvelafris mkadrebelia da misTvis

mizani nebismier saSualebas amarTlebs,

rasac Cven arasdros vikadrebT.

rogorc wesi, beladomaniiTa

da absolutizmiT Sepyrobili

moRvaweni xSirad gamoirCevian

fsiqopaTologiuri eqscentrikulobiT,

Seuracxadi impulsurobiT,

mkacri imperatiulobiT, daucxromeli

agresiiT, Surisgan

amozrdili kompleqsebiTa da despoturi

yofaqceviT, romelTa msxverplsac

usaTuod RvTisnieri,

patiosani, niWieri, Tvinieri da

keTilad Semoqmedi adamianebi warmoadgenen

xolme. me, rogorc mar-

Tlmadidebeli qristiani, rasakvirvelia,

erTmniSvnelovnad vgmob

da vemijnebi reinkarnaciis, sul-

Ta gadasaxlebis aRmosavlur cnebas,

Tumca ar uarvyof sxvadasxva

epoqaSi mcxovreb pirTa sulieri

naTesaobisa da mistikuri kavSiris

SesaZleblobas. amis Tqmis safuZvels

ki protopresviter giorgi

zviadaZis pirovnuli natura maZlevs,

romelic, mmarTvelobiTi stiliTa

da msoflSegnebiT, Zalian

hgavs mis winamorbed pavle Cudeckis

da romelic, Cvenda samwuxarod,

Tavisi upasuxismgeblobiTa

da aramarTlzomieri qmedebebiT,

nebsiT Tu uneblieT, udides zians

ayenebs axalgazrdobisa Tu, zogadad,

studentebis sulier samyaros,

maT fsiqikas, Rirsebasa da

Tavisuflebas.

ise, mas Semdeg, rac misi maRal-

Rirseba, mama giorgi zviadaZe, reqtoris

Tanamdebobaze dainiSna,

Tbilisis sasuliero seminariasa

da akademiaSi garegnulad, TiTqos,

raRac garkveuli progresi mar-

Tlac SesamCnevi iyo, Tumca diqtatorulma

maqsimalizmma da ambiciurma

miznebma maleve gamoaCines

28 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


da giorgi zviadaZis siSlegeni

Tavisi realuri saxe da jalaTuri

brWyalebiT daporWynes profesor-maswavlebelTa

is nawili,

romelic dRevandel koleqtivTan

SedarebiT, namdvilad ukeTesi

dasafasebeli iyo.

ar SemiZlia ar Sevexo sasuliero

seminariisa da akademiis amJamindel

moZRvar dekanoz Salva

kekeliasa da sasuliero seminariis

dekans, dekanoz Teimuraz mJavanaZes,

romelnic TavianTi makur-

Txeveli da mazombirebeli protopresviteris,

„axali Cudeckis”

davalebiT, daxelovnebulni arian

farisevlobis, dabezRebis, Woraobis,

ciliswamebisa da usamarTlobis

saqmeSi. amave dros, am yrma Wabukebs

yvelaze ufro dabalinteleqtualuri

resursi aqvT xsenebuli

avtokratis unamuso mstovar-

Ta da Seborkil emisarTa Soris,

rac, TavisTavad, maT yurmoWrilobasa

da xelisbiWobas erTiorad

asuldgmulebs.

protopresviter giorgi zviadaZis

saqmeni sagmironi sxvadasxva

dros araerTgzis gaaprotesta

studentTa TiTqmis srulma Semadgenlobam

da pativayril leqtor-

Ta garkveulma nawilma, Tumca,

rogorc movlenaTa ganviTarebam

cxadyo, uSedegod. arada, sakuTar

Tavze maqvs nawvnevi misi egzaltirebuli

siZulvili da sruliad

araadekvaturi agresia, romelic

Zalze damTrgunvel iarad daaCnda

Cems guls.

_ zviadaZe ras gerCodaT?

_ erT Cveulebriv saswavlo

dRes sasuliero seminariis derefanSi

videqi. leqciebi ukve dasrulebuli

gaxldaT. dafaze gakrul

siaxleebs vecnobodi da bunebrivia,

kedlisken pirispir videqi.

uecrad, zurgSi Zlieri dartyma

vigrZeni da modunebuli mivexeTqe

xis dafas. dabneulobisgan gaognebuli

barbaciT movtrialdi da

Cem win gawiwmatebuli mama giorgi

zviadaZe idga, romelic, Turme,

imis gamo miswordeboda, rom Sua

TebervalSi sicivisgan gaToSilma

mantoSi xelebi Caviwyve da ise davdeqi,

ris gamoc man tyeSi gazrdili,

gasaricxad ganmzadebuli da

uRirsi biWi miwoda. miuxedavad

yvelafrisa, vpatiob am saqciels

mama giorgis. dae, miutevos ufalma

da ar mohkiTxos amisTvis, magram,

nuTu, es sakmarisia mis gamosasworeblad?

mokled, aSkaraa, rom qvabavazakTa

wregadasuli lideri sagangaSo

klinikuri SemTxvevaa da mas-

Tan urTierToba uSualod fsiqiatrTa

kompetencias saWiroebs.

yvelani SeveswariT, Tu rogori

SeZaxiliT Seuracxyo man sasuliero

seminariis erT-erTi sanimuSo

da uwesieresi pedagogi, dekanozi,

im droisTvis diakoni iakob CiCiliZe,

romelsac aseTi bilwsityvaoebiT

mimarTa, _ iakob, modi aq, Seni

deda ... xolo mogvianebiT, samecniero

sabWos sxdomaze, kvlavindeburad

dacofa da satanis msaxuri

uwoda, razedac Tavad dazaralebulma

Cveuli simSvidiT miugo,

rom am uSveri sityvebis avtori

maszed moweuli mZime gansacdelia.

kargad gvaxsovs, Tu rogor daamcira

misive studenti, kaxaber CxikvaZe,

imis gamo, rom sakuTar meu-

Rles, saRvTismetyvelo institutis

students, leqciaTa Soris Sesvenebisas,

qarvaslis win esaubreboda.

saxalxod, colis TandaswrebiT,

miayena fizikuri Seuracxyofa

_ xeli hkra, TmaSi swvda da yuri

auwia, Tumca es agresia dRemde

amouxsneli da pasuxgaucemelia.

arasodes dagvaviwydeba, Tu

`yvela Tanxmdeba, rom Tbilisis sasuliero seminariasa da akademiaSi

sabWoTa nomenklaturisTvis damaxasiaTebeli reJimi, cenzura da

ideologizebuli atmosferoa, anu iq adamiani ar miiCneva pirovnebad,

Sesabamisad, yvelas, vinc Tavisufali da gansxvavebuli azris mqonea, vinc

morCilebas monobasTan ar aigivebs, vinc prorusuli orientaciis araa, vinc

damoukidebeli inteleqtualia da vinc, ubralod, profesiuli

keTilsindisierebisa da patiosani moqalaqeobis prizmidan msjelobs, visac,

ubralod, gansxvavebuli azri da pozicia aqvs, misi stigmatizeba, devna-

Seviwroeba da `kuWkuWis sasamarTloze~ gasamarTleba iwyeba~

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

rogori utaqtobiT galanZRa yvelasTvis

sayvareli da Zvirfasi

pedagogi, zurab ekalaZe, imis gamo,

rom misi azriT, gasarecxi da gasauTovebeli

perangi ecva. saSineli

agresiiTa da augi damokidebulebiT,

studentebis TandaswrebiT,

xmamaRali SeniSvna misca da

uyvira. simwriT magondeba isic,

roca man uaRresad Rvawlmosili,

msoflio eklesiis istoriis maRali

donis specialisti da siyvaruliT

gamorCeuli pedagogi, dekanozi

giorgi sabiaSvili, saswavleblidan,

faqtobrivad, gaaZeva,

saaTebi SeuzRuda, kaTedridan daiTxova

da ugulebelyo misi damsaxurebani,

rasac uSualod xsenebuli

pirovnebis Rrma depresia da

maleve gulis SeteviT misi gardacvaleba

moyva. sayovelTaod

cnobilia, Tu rogor Seexo xeliT

dekanoz Teimuraz TaTaraSvils, im

droisTvis, seminariis dekans da

rogori uwmawuri sityvebiT dagesla

is. es incidenti sasuliero

seminariis derefanSi dafiqsirda,

sadac uamravi studenti imyofeboda.

rom ara maTi mxridan SuaSi

Cadgomis mcdeloba, gacofebuli

borotmoqmedis Sekaveba SeuZlebeli

gaxdeboda. zviadaZis gaveSeba

ki, am SemTxvevaSi, iman gamoiwvia,

rom xsenebuli dekani, saRvTismetyvelo

sagnebis, sxva sagnebTan

SedarebiT, aucilebel upiratesobasa

da prioritetulobaze saubrobda.

saswavleblis profilidan

gamomdinare, am faqts vaifilolog

giorgi zviadaZis mxridan absoluturad

araadekvaturi gacxareba

moyva.

calke aRniSvnis Rirsia protopresviter

giorgi zviadaZis Tavxeduri

gamoxtomebi. RvTismsaxurebisas,

nacvlad ridisa da Rrma

mowiwebisa, igi mravalgzis SemCneulia

saRvTo liturgiisa da sa-

Ramos locvis mimdinareobisas

eqscentrikul da mrisxane qcevaSi

rogorc Tanamwirvel sasuliero

pirebTan, ise wignis mkiTxvelebTan,

stiqarosnebTan, mrevlTan da

mgaloblebTan. vidre amgvar mdgomareobaSia,

mis mrevlSi yofnac ki

udidesi zianisa da safrTxis momtania

yvelasTvis.

sxvaTa Soris, groteskul anekdotadaa

cnobili qaSueTis eklesiaSi,

jer kidev, dekanoz da, amave

dros, winamZRvar giorgi zviadaZis

mxridan axalgazrda qalbatonis

cemis istoria, romelic zafxul-

Si, maRali temperaturis gamo, eklesiaSi

dgomisas maraos iyenebda

da romelic imiT daisaja, rom

xsenebuli mamis mxridan Tavze maraodaxeuli

da taZridan gamoZevebuli

aRmoCnda. amiT iq myof mlocvelTa

umravlesoba Sokirebuli

darCa.

agreTve, komediur seriaTa nusxas

ganekuTvneba yovelTvis gulwrfeli

protopresviteris dialogi

sagareo saqmeTa eqsministr

grigol vaSaZesTan, romelmac, misi

TandaswrebiT, instinqturad, kolofidan

sigara amoiRo, moukida

da cota xanSi, Tavisi Tamami saqcieliT

Secbunebulma, sasuliero

pirs mimarTa, _ ukacravad, mamao,

bodiSs gixdiT, axlave Cavaqrob!

xom ar gawuxebT kvamli? amaze zviadaZem

upasuxa, _ ara, batono

grigol, ras brZanebT, piriqiT.

albaT, dameTanxmebiT, rom TviT

kaiafasac ki ganacvifrebda amgvari

pirmoTneoba da siyalbe. mravali

adamiani gaxda mowme wirvis

msvlelobisas misi mxridan, sruliad

gaugebari mizezis gamo, sionis

sapatriarqo taZris moamage regentis,

nodar kiknaZis (romelic

1997 wels Tavad uwmidesisa da unetaresis,

ilia II-s mier Seqmnil

gunds xelmZRvanelobda), damcirebisa

_ sityvieri Seuracxyofis

garda, „avgiorgi Cudeckim” fizikuradac

ki gaiwia masze, rac, sabolood,

imiT dasrulda, rom 35-

wliani erTguli samsaxurisTvis

damsaxurebuli mgalobeli iZulebuli

gaxda, sionis mrevli samudamod

daetovebina da ganawyenebuli

wasuliyo. maglobelTa moamage

gundi, solidarobis niSnad, sruli

SemadgenlobiT, aseve wavida.

sxva dros igive scena dafiqsirda

sionis Sereuli gundis regent

mariam mZevlurTan. igi 36 welia,

rac mgalobelTa gunds xelmZRvanelobs,

romelsac fizikuri da

sityvieri Seuracxyofa miayena

gonebaareulma giorgi zviadaZem.

bodiSis moxdis Semdeg igi naZaladevad

dauzavda msxverpls.

sxvaTa Soris, protopresviter

giorgi zviadaZis avyiobisa da

yoveldRiuri anCxlobis Sedegad,

sionis sapatriarqo taZari xangr-

Zlivi moRvaweobis Semdeg daatovebines

dekanoz lavrenti buziaSvils,

dekanoz amiran amiranaSvilsa

da dekanoz Teimuraz beriSvils.

samwuxarod, verc maTma avtoritetma

da gavlenam ver gaar-

Rvia sapatriarqos samdivnodan

marTuli moZaladis momakvdinebeli

xundebi.

aseve ar SemiZlia, ar Sevexo

cnobili mqadageblis, yvelasTvis

sayvareli da pativsacemi pirovnebis,

mama Teodore gignaZis SemTxvevas,

roca is sasuliero akademiis

diplomis gareSe datova kaenis

codviT Sepyrobilma „neoCudeckim”.

gamoCenili mecnieris, baton

ediSer WeliZis xelmZRvanelobiTa

da recenziiT damowmebuli

naSromi Cauxedavad daiwuna da

ukuagdo, Tavad avtors ki oriani

dauwera. sul cota xnis win seminaria-akademiaSi

moRvawe pedagog-

Ta garkveul nawils, romelic

pirdapiri Cudeckizaciis momxre

da mimdevaria, sazeimo viTarebaSi,

sruliad xelovnurad, CawyobiTa

da proteqciis daCqarebuli wesiT,

saRvTismetyvelo xarisxebi miani-

Wes, romelTac aqamde, jer kidev,

aranairi saRvTismetyvelo Sroma

ar aqvT dawerili. Sesabamisad,

TiToeuli maTgani TviTgamocxadebul

doqtorad gvevlineba, rac,

cota ar iyos, breJnevizmis komikur

elfers atarebs.

zemoT CamoTvlili danaSaulebis

garda, sagulisxmoa, rom gansakuTrebuli

cvalebadoba SeiniSneba

seminariisa da akademiis dekanis

Tanamdebobazec, sadac daniSnuli

piris sarekordo vada 5 Tves,

zog SemTxvevaSi ki 2 Tves ar

aRemateba. amgvari isteriis gamanadgurebelma

talRam Seiwira dekanozi

gelasi natroSvili (patiosani

adamiani), dekanozi miqael

galdava (udavod inteleqtuali

pirovneba), arqimandriti saba

(jiSkariani) (yovelmxriv dadebiTi

moRvawe), dekanozi daviT TavaZe

(perspeqtiuli pedagogi), dekanozi

levan maTeSvili (ganaTlebuli da

progresuli mecnieri) da religiaTmcodne

ekaterine favleniSvili

(fsiqologiis fakultetis dekanatis

aw ukve yofili mdivani).

isic ironiaa, roca proreqtorad

saswavlo da samecniero darg-

Si iniSneba iseTi pirovneba, romelsac

diplomic ki ar aqvs da romelic

Tavad gamomcdelis (mama giorgi

zviadaZis) mxridan orianiT

fasdeba saxelmwifo gamocdaSi.

_ giorgi, zemoT pansionatSi

arsebuli viTarebac axseneT.

ufro konkretulad, ras gulisx-

mobdiT?

_ cinizmia, roca pansionatSi

mcxovrebi studentebisTvis kvebis

esoden samarcxvino menius vawydebiT,

anu erTnairia sadResaswaulo,

samarxvo da saxsnilo racioni.

amasTan, SemaZrwunebelia, Tu

rogor gausaZlis da antisanitariul

sayofacxovrebo pirobebSi

uwevT arseboba iq mcxovreb moswavleebs,

Tanac es maSin, roca sapatriarqo

oficialuri wesiT uamrav

Tanxas ricxavs saswavleblis

saWiroebebisTvis. am fonze ki protopresviteri

giorgi zviadaZe

kadnierad ar erideba sakuTari

dabadebis dRis aRniSvnas sastumro

„redisonSi” (sufraze imyofeboda

samasze meti adamiani, Ziri-

Tadad, dipkorpusis warmomadgenlebi

da gavleniani biznesmenebi),

sadac marto finjani yava _ arc

meti, arc naklebi _ 50 lari Rirs.

ar SemiZlia, ar Sevexo Cems nacnobsa

da kolegasTan, levan enuqi-

ZesTan dakavSirebul umZimes Sem-

Txvevas, romelsac mxolod imis

gamo mouwia sasuliero akademiasTan

gamoTxoveba, rom sakuTar

„feisbuqis” gverdze Cemi erT-er-

Ti werili „eklesiaSi arsebuli

problemebi” _ gaaziara. mama Salva

kekeliam, Cveul stilSi, socialuri

qselis gverdidan amobeWdili

qaRaldis afrialebiT, xsenebul

studentze zewola ganaxorciela

da garicxviT daemuqra mas

(cxadia, uSualod reqtoris davalebiT),

rasac sityvieri SekamaTeba

da uTanxmoeba moyva. yvelaferi

ki imiT dasrulda, rom am axalgazrda

da niWier kacs saswavlebeli

„akademiuris” iZulebiTi aRebiT

daatovebines.

aseve aRsaniSnavia, rom Tavad

netarxsenebuli reqtori, romelic

viTom wesrigis, disciplinisa

da dauRalavi Sromis mimdevaria,

sinamdvileSi, arasdros Sedis leqciaze

droulad da arasodes rCeba

iq bolomde. amasTan, igi Zalian

xSirad acdens leqcias da gamocdazec

ar midis, rasac TviTon saku-

Tari personis privilegirebulobiTa

da upiratesobiT xsnis, rac

Cveulebrivi utifroba da usircxvilobaa.

_ e. i. zviadaZe xelSeuxebelia?

_ diax, asea, magram, garwmunebT,

rom garkveuli drois Semdeg

babilonis godoli aucileblad

Camoingreva da lustrirdeba yvela

is damnaSave, vinc xorblis

nacvlad RvarZlsa da sarevelas

Tesavs noyier mindorze.

_ giorgi, yvelafer imis, rac

moyeviT, faqtebiT dadastureba

SegiZliaT?

_ diax, dabejiTebiT SemiZlia

ganvacxado, rom Cem mier moyvanili

faqtebis sinamdvilisa da avTenturobis

dasadastureblad uamravi

TviTmxilveli da mowme arsebobs,

romelnic, saWiroebis SemTxvevaSi,

am da kidev damatebiT saTqmelsac

daafiqsireben! flid,

mlanZRvel da moCxubar sasuliero

pirebs ki Sevaxseneb, Tu rogori

iyo Cveni macxovari, rameTu

„evneboda da igi aravis aginebda,

evneboda da aravis uTqumida” (I

pet. 2,23).

29

27-e gverdidan


dekanoz nikita TalakvaZis

`moqalaqe-mRvdlis dRiuri~

saeparqio kreba

1921 w. 1 ivliss

me qalaqis samRvdeloebam delegatad

gamgzavna am krebaze; kreba

gaxsna kaTolikozma, vrceli sityviT

mimarTa samRvdeloebas,

ganumarta gansaxilveli sakiTxebi,

misca direqtivebi da moiTxova

Tavmjdomaris amxanagi damisaxele-

To, damasaxeles me da daviWire adgili;

Semdeg TviTon wabrZanda, momando

krebis xelmZRvaneloba da

mibrZana, TviToeul sakiTxis gadawyvetis

Semdeg misTvis momexsenebia

yovelive. mec Seudeqi saqmes, Cinebulad

mimdinareobda kreba, Sesdga

Jurnali da 8 ivlisis saRamoTi

davasruleT; im Rames gvindoda ka-

Tolikozis naxva, magram ver moxerxda,

im Rames kaTolikozi xoleriT

gamxdariyo avaT, misTvis mtkvris

binZuri wyali daulevinebiaT,

ris Semdeg astexia pir- Rebineba,

faRaraTi; daexvia eqimebi, magram

vera uSveles ra _ erTi kviris

Semdeg leonidi gardaicvala; krebis

Jurnalis damtkicebac ki veRar

SesZlo, CaiSala misi gegmebi, mis

mier mowveuli saeklesio kreba ki

mainc moagvares gelaTis monaster-

Si, sadac 1 sektembers (ax. st.) unda

gaxsniliyo kreba; qalaqidan TiTqos

me undodiT delegatad, magram

gangeb ar gamovcxaddi krebaze, rom

Zala ar daetanebiaT da Semdeg ar

gaveSavebie arCevnebze _ ase gamafrTxila

mTavar-xucesma dek.

giorgiZem. aRar msurda saek. krebaze

wasvla; kaT. mosaydreT sakaT.

sabWom wamoayena cxum-afxazeTis

mitrop. ambrosi, _ kaci susti xasiaTiTac,

ganviTarebiTac, uxasia-

To; ver igua Wyondidloba, aqidgan

afxazeTSi dasves, iqac ver igua

verc xalxi da verc samRvdeloeba;

bolSevikebis Semosvlis dros

imasac miutoebia samwyso da gamoqceula

samegreloSi!.. aseTi kacia

dRes kaTolikozobis kandidatad!..

meore kandidatad asaxeleben cnobil

nazars _ quTaTels! rodesac

mis Sesaxeb qalaqSi xmebi gavrcelda,

rusis dedakacebi gaiZaxian: „×òî

ýòîòú Íàçàðêà áóäåòú êàòàëèêîñîì?!”!..

„nazarkas” saxeliT icnoben paWua

dedakacebi mas aq! mTeli tfilisi

magasa da ierofei reqtors da Semdeg

kekeliZes wapilwuli hqondaT

loTobiT da garyvnilebiT!.. asaxeleben

seminariis yofil maswavlebels

romanist vasil barnovs, da

hoi sakvirvelebav, asaxeleben

sakaT. sabWos yofil jamagirian

wevrs rafiel ivanickis _ „ingilos”

_ aman coli gaagdo, ori Svili

hyavs! col-gagdebuli, uxasiaTo,

garyvnili axalgazrda kaci, eriskaci

surT kaTolikozad, xolo „colosan”

kaTolikozs an episkopozs

nu gauxsenebT...

mesame saeklesio kreba gelaTSi

1921 w. seqtemberSi

aseT pirobebSi gaimarTeba intrigebi;

nazari me damabralebda

vin icis rasa da mesame saeklesio

krebas Tavi davaxwie Segnebulad,

sasikeTos da nayofiers me misgan

aras gamoveli! erTi aTi-Tormeti

milioni fuli dagvexarjeba sanTlis

qarxnidan da ai amas movigebT!

30

ambrosi surs dek. k. cincaZes da

an. ToTibaZes, eseni misi guliTadi

mesaidumleni arian, skolis amxanagic,

faqtiurad es ori dekanozi

iqnebian kaTolikozi; lazriSvils

mgoni nazari surs, nazari

SviliSvils unaTlavs magas; wavida

lazriSvilic da waasxa sakaT.

sabWos mTeli Semadgenloba „kandidatebiana”.

vnaxoT ra iqneba; vis

amoirCeven, ras gaakeTeben! Cemi

moxsenebac waikiTxes krebaze, moxseneba

sakaT. sabWos mondomilebiT

„samoZRvro seminariis” gaxsnaze; es

sakaT. sabWoSi wavikiTxe, cecxlSi

gavatare axlo warsuli dro, aRvnusxe

Cadenili Secdomani da uCvene

ra niadagze da ra pirobebSi

SeiZleba Cveni eklesiuri cxovrebis

fexze wamoyeneba, ra niadagze

SeiZleba seminariis daarseba. vnaxoT

ra iqneba, dRes Svidi sektemberia,

xval krebis gaxsnis sworia,

ambavi ara mogvdis ra... metad mZime

droa; bolSevikebma 50 miliardiT

dabegra saqarTvelo; vaWrebi

gaswures, daiWires bevrni; cixesapyrobileni

savse menSevikebiT, es

ubedurebi auwerel pirobebSi arian,

yovel Ram da dRes ixvriteba

auracxeli xalxi; ramodenime soflis

mRvdlebic Causxams „Cekas”

cixeSi „kontr-revoliuciisaTvis”...

namdvili RvTis risxvaa... materializm-

socializmi da diqtatura

proletariatisa gvanadgurebs,

xalxSi xma ver amogviRia

materializmis sawinaaRmdegod da

kaTolikozis arCevnebiT vityuilebT

Tavs, TiTqos Cvenc vsaqmobT,

vmoqmedebT...

1921 wlis 11 ivliss (ax. st.) gardaicvala

kaT. leonidi, xolo

imave wlis 11 sektembers (ax. st.) _

naTlismcemlis Tavis kveTis dRes,

Semovida sionis taZarSi axali ka-

Tolikozi ambrosi (xelaia), romlis

Sesaxeb zemodac gvqonda cota

ram aRniSnuli. jer sakmarisad ver

movaswar gavscnobodi saeklesio

krebis msvlelobas, mxolod am

„arCevnebze” gadmomca dek. d. lazriSvilma

Semdegi: „brZola iyo kandidatebisa

gacxarebuli, orTave

kandidati mitropolitebi ambrosi

da nazari samkvdro-sasicocxlo

brZolisaTvis darazmuliyvnen

(TviT lazriSvili iyo agenti nazarisa,

xolo misi winamZRvari dek.

cincaZe agenti ambrosisa _ amasve

mxars uWerda da didad exmareboda

zemoaRniSnuli dek. an. ToTiba-

Ze, romelic Tvisi samxedro taZridan

wabrZanda krebis delegatad,

Tan mihyavda al. asaTianic, _

erisgan, magram es aRar wasula, vin

waiyvana mis nacvlad ar vici); oTx-

SabaTamde (7 sektembramde) gamarjveba

iyo nazaris mxareze, guriasamegrelos

delegatebi emxroboden

imereTisas da ambrosi

saqmes agebda, magram didad datrialda

sakaT. sabWos wevri niko

TavdgiriZe (es metad uniWo kaci

gamodga yvela sarbielze da exla

sakaT. sabWoSi intriganobs), aman

didi propaganda gaswia xsenebul

delegatebSi, Seariges ambrosis

foTis kandelaki dek. iv. boboxiZe,

es mosisxle mteri ambrosisa (fo-

Tis kaTedraSi yofnis dros am dek.

boboxiZem kinaRam mohkla mitrop.

ambrosi, eseni ver Tavsdeboden

erTad, ambrosi metad Taviseburi,

jiqi da ampartavania, Tavisi unda

yvelgan gaiyvanos, aseTivea is boboxiZec;

ambrosis aRar edgomeboda

guria-samegrelos eparqiaSi,

rodesac is „megobrebma” didis

zeimiT Seiyvanes da dasves soxum-

Si, sadac xalxi Txoulobda arqim.

marRiSvils, romelic im dros

sadRac skolaSi iyo gadaxvewili

maswavleblad, marRiSvili SeebrZola

rus samRvdeloebis warmomadgenlebs

soxumis kaTedraSi,

gaaZeva isini, xolo aseT gakaful

gzaze mibrZanda ambrosi, magram

aqac ver daiWira Tavi, ver Seegua

verc sazogadoebas, verc samRvdeloebas,

xolo bolSevikebi ro soxumSi

SeiWren, mwyemsma Tvisi samwyso

dastova da gaiqca zugdidis

mazraSi; iq „Seafara Tavi”, (rogorc

leonidma imereTs „Seafara

Tavi”). am boboxiZis gadabirebiT

saswori ambrosisaken gadaixara,

urCies, erT-erTma moxseniT Tavisi

kandidaturao, amaze orTaves

Semdegi ganucxadebia iezuiturad:

„Cven ar wamogviyenebia Cveni kandidatura,

vinc wamogvayena imaT

hkiTxeT, imaT ician, vin moxsnan da

vin dastovono”! aqedan cxadi iyo,

rom orTaves undodaT „kenWobia”;

jer baraTebiT davasaxeleT kandidatebi,

gvegona vinc nakleb baraTs

miiRebda, is moxsnida Tvis kandidaturaso;

ambrosim miiRo samocze

meti baraTi, xolo nazarma

ormocdaaTi (sul 119 delegati

daswrebia); nazarma mainc ar moxsna

Tvisi kandidatura, piriqiT,

ufro gaucxovelebia agitacia; am

saxiT orTavem iyara kenWi, ambrosim

miiRo 67 kenWi TeTri (Savi 41),

nazarma 54 (TeTri, amdenive Savi);

goris episkopozoba gorel delegatebma

„sTxoves” dek. qr. cicqiSvils

(„axali sityvis” yofil redaqtors,

kirion kaTolikozis namusis

amxdels, miss zneobriv mkvlels!),

cicqiSvils ki Turme ka-

Tolikozobac sdomeboda, magram

ver gaumxelia; kaTolikozobis

kandidatad erTi baraTiT dausaxelebiaT

rafael ivanicki (ingilo,

mamiT leki), albad es TviT magisganve

iyo baraTi; magram es ukuugdiaT;

kaTolikozs misces neba Tu

saWirod dainaxos vikarni episkoposi

iyolios, xolo aseT vikarnad

hyavda dasaxuli es ivanicki, romelmac

coli gaagdo, yovlad patiosani

adamiani, ori Svilis deda;

romelsac, rodesac saWiroebda,

gamoswova ivanickim did-Zali

fulebi, misi xarjiT izrdeboda

peterburgis psixo-nevrologiur

institutSi (ar dauTavebia, iyo

iuridiul nawilze, gamovida seminariis

meoTxe klasidan), es qali

exla aris tfilisSi, mdidari

vaWris xaraSvilis qalia; es ivanicki

pirvel sakaT. sabWos wevradac

iyo „jamagiriani”, magram

arafers akeTebda; arc ki eswreboda

sxdomebs; esec kirionis zneob.

mkvlelia; soxumis episkoposad

dausaxavT arqimandriti ioanne _

marRiSvili (mamiT osi, goreli, akademia

aqvs moskovisa damTavrebuli,

dimitri abaSiZe-renegatis

protekciiT), kaci nervebmoSlili,

uxasiaTo da uniWo; mouspiaT „Wyondidloba”;

mitropoliti iqneba

mxolod (yofila iseTi momenti

krebaze, rom alaverdic samitropoliod

surebiaT, ep. pirosma sTqva:

„naxevari saaTi mitropolitad

viyavio”) quTaTeli, sxvebi episkopozni;

aRudgeniaT samRvdeloebis

dajildoeba! (es moxseneba dek.

ToTibaZesi waukiTxavs erasti

TuTberiZes, nazaris mdivans, meqr-

Tames; cicqiSvili mowinaaRmdegeT

gamosula, magram krebis samRvdeloebas

ustvenia da gadmougdiaT

tribunidan; esec damaxasiaTebelia

Cveni; raRa jildoebi surT ver

gamigia!); medaviTneebis „wili” Semosavlisa

Seumcirebia krebas, 2/5-

dan Camosula 1/3-zed! amiT sul

daafrTxoben medaviTneebs da sulac

aRar gveyoleba, wirva moispoba

Cveni taZrebis umetes nawilSi;

mouspiaT samRvdeloebis saarCevno

wesebi mrevlSi!.. sakaT. sabWos

wevrebic xel-axlad aurCeviaT

(amaT kandidatebad, Cveni mTavarxucesi

gr. giorgiZe, qurdi, pasuxisgebaSi

micemuli sasaflaos dek.

g. gamrekeli da dek. i. kapanaZe):

mark. tyemalaZe, k. cincaZe da i.

mirianaSvili, eseni samRvdeloTagan,

xolo erisganTagan (amaT kandidatebad

_ ger. imnaiSvili da iv.

ratiSvili _ eseni klerikali maswavleblebia,

kirionis mowinaaRmdegeni):

niko TavdgiriZe, rafael

ivanicki da k. kekelZe! es yofili

dekanozi korneli kekeliZe universitets

„gaugzavnia” Tvis warmomadgenlad

saeklesio krebaze,

esec mibrZanebula krebaze saero

tanisamosiT, samandato komisiasac

miuRia (samandato komisiaSi meTaurobda

dek. an. ToTibaZe, cincaZe-kekeliZis

kudi), moxsenebiTac

warmomdgara _ mitropolitebis

Semcirebaze, bolos yofili dekanozi

uzenaess saeklesio dawesebulebis

_ sakaT. sabWos wevradac

aurCeviaT „eris kacTaganad”, masac

es arCevnebi miuRia! ai, aseTia Cveni

drois zne da sikeTe! kekeliZe

cols gaeyara, sami vaJis dedas da

meore coli SeirTo!.. sakmaod

vsTqvi zemod kekeliZis Sesaxeb da

aq kmara magaze baasi... aseT kolegiaSi

uxdeba ubedur ambrosis ka-

Tolikozoba! gaimarjva kirionis

zneobrivma mkvlelebma, magram sabolood

damarcxda Cveni naWirnaxulevi

eklesia! xalxi cota daeswro

sionSi; karebSi mivegebeT sam-

Rvdeloeba ep. pirosis meTaurobiT,

sityviT miegeba ambrosis, romelic

didubis ezodan moiyvana

mirianov-ToTibaZem etliT, RamiT

iq gaCerebuliyo; ep. pirosis sityva

iyo „kazioni”, usul-gulo da

uniWo; aseTive uniWo sityva warmosTqva

TviT kaTolikozma ambrosim,

romelmac Cveulebriv moitrabaxa

da erTxel kidev wamogvayvedra

Tvisi devnileba-eqsoriaoba

Zvel reJimis dros. es 1917 welsac

brZana, rodesac mitropolitad

akurTxes mcxeTaSi! sul ar yofila

dasjili sami Tvis meti, Semdeg

„staraia rusaSi” (novg. gubernia)

misces mdidar monastris winamZRvroba

da did fufunebaSi iyo, didZali

fulebiT gadmovida, Tumca

sul fulebze wuwunebda, unda vifiqroT,

rom es da misi Svilebi _

ori qali da erTi vaJi, sul gaanadgureben

im qonebasac, rac kirion-leonids

da maT damqaSebs gadarCaT,

vai, sircxvilo! Semdeg

waviyvaneT Tviss sasaxleSi da davtoveT

iq; sadilis suni modioda,

etyoba lazriSvili aqac „gamar-

Tavda” sanTlis fuliT sadils,

Tvali movkar, karebSi daZvreboda

yofili wevri pirvel sakaT. sab-

Woisa p. baraTaSvili, kaci lawiraki,

cuRluti da veragi, megobari

d. daviTaSvilisa, romelTan daaxlovebas

ambrosisas Seecdebian

„daTikas” megobrebi...

(gagrZeleba Semdeg nomerSi)

30 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

maka mosiaSvili

599 97 25 55

Tu gaqvs fuli da ginda, Seni

investicia saqarTveloSi daabando, gaqvs momxibvleli biznesideebi

da ginda, rom ideas xorci Seasxa, aqve Sens qveyana-

Si... gaqvs imedi, rom Seni warmateba Sensave miwazea garantirebuli...

amisTvis saxelmwifo, saxelad saqarTvelo, 100 SeTavazebas

gikeTebs... mTavaria, gindodes da qveyana mzadaa, gam-

artivebuli saxiT miwis nakveTebic ki giboZos...


axla ki ra viyidoT kaxeTSi?..

mTavrobam kaxeTis regionSi

saprivatizebo nusxaSi 19 adgili

Seitana.

saxelmwifo qonebis erovnuli

saagentos oficialur gverdze

ganTavsebuli saprivatizebo

rukis mixedviT 4 adgilis privatizeba

igegmeba Telavis municipalitetSi,

6-is gurjaanSi, 1-is

yvarelSi, 3-is sagarejoSi, 1-is

dedofliswyaroSi da 4-is siRnaRSi.

uwyebis oficialur gverdze

aseve miTiTebulia TiToeuli

adgilis sakadastro kodi,

farTobi, auqcionis savaraudo

aris 2500 axali samuSao adgilis

perspeqtiva. saprivatizebo nusxaSia

samrewvelo obieqtebi, sasawyobo

da satbore meurneobebi,

samedicino dawesebulebebi, sportuli

infrastruqtura, sastumroebi

da developerebisTvis

saintereso sxva saxelmwifo

qoneba”, ganacxada ekonomikisa

da mdgradi ganviTarebis ministrma

naTia Turnavam.

11 000 momxmareblidan Telavis

municipalitetis sofel Salauris

ramdenime mcxovrebma

aRmoaCina, rom maTi bavSobis

droindel stadions saxelmwifo

samrewvelo sasawyobe meurneobis

saxeliT yidis.

Salaureli nika SarvaSiZe

xalisiT ixsenebs:

_ saxelmwifom im 100 saprivatizacio

obieqtSi Telavidan

miwa gamoitana viTom „samrewvelo

sasawyobe meurneobisTvis”.

magram, realurad, es adgili iyo

stadioni, romelzedac mTeli

bavSvoba vTamaSobdiT fexburTs.

mere ki orive kari mogvpares,

magram xis Zelebi gvqonda da

mainc vTamaSobdiT. axla stadioni,

romelic abalaxebulia da

aranairi komunikacia iq araa,

uceb iqca „samrewvelo-sasawyobed”.

privatizaciis winaaRmdegi ar

var, Zalian kargi, Tu gaiyida da

rame gakeTda, magram cota adekvaturoba

gvmarTebs daniSnule-

„100 sainvesticio SeTavazeba

bizness” kampaniis farglebSi

warmodgenilia qveynis masStabiT

arsebuli sainvesticiod mimzidveli

uZravi qonebis nusxa. saprivatizebo

obieqtebi, sxvadasxva

maxasiaTeblis garda, moicavs

ganviTarebis savaraudo SesaZleblobas.

gamartivebuli saprivatizebo

procedurebis meSveobiT yvela

dainteresebul pirs aqvs Sesa-

Zlebloba, monawileoba miiRos

mimdinare eleqtronul auqcion-

Si”, _ acxadeben saxelmwifo qonebis

erovnul saagentoSi.

mTavroba saxelmwifo qonebis

privatizebis axali talRis farglebSi

sul 117 obieqts gayidis,

romlis saSualebiTac ekonomikis

saministro 150 milioni laris

generirebas gegmavs.

ekonomikisa da mdgradi ganvi-

Tarebis saministrosa da ssip


saagentos inicirebul proeqts

„100 sainvesticio SeTavazeba bizness”

mxolod or dReSi 11 000

saxelmwifo stadions sawyobad yidis

meti momxmarebeli gaecno.

proeqtis farglebSi eleqtronul

auqcionze 100-ze meti komerciulad

mimzidveli saprivatizebo

obieqti gamartivebuli

biurokratiuli proceduriT

aris warmodgenili.

amasTan, Seiqmna specialurad

SemuSavebuli interaqciuli ruka,

sadac datanilia proeqtis

farglebSi arsebuli yvela sainvesticio

paketi da yvela dainteresebul

pirs SeuZlia ewvios

misTvis sasurvel eleqtronul

auqcions, miiRos monawileoba

vaWrobaSi da gaxdes uZravi qonebis

mesakuTre.

rac gansakuTrebiT mniSvnelovania,

es araa erTjeradi „seil

aqcia”, aRniSnuli platforma

ganaxlebadia da mudmivad Seivseba

axali saprivatizebo obieqtebiT.

saprivatizebo obieqtebis nusxa

moicavs qveynis masStabiT

saxelmwifos sakuTrebaSi arsebul

uZrav qonebas Tbilissa da

saqarTvelos 45-mde qalaqsa da

municipalitets.

saprivatizebo nusxaSia samrewvelo

obieqtebi, sasawyobo da

satbore meurneobebi, samedicino

dawesebulebebi, sportuli

infrastruqtura, sastumroebi

da developerebisTvis saintereso

sxva saxelmwifo qoneba.

proeqtis mizans warmoadgens

qveyanaSi meti investiciis mozidva

da dasaqmebis xelSewyoba.

informacia saprivatizebo qonebis

Sesaxeb ganTavsebulia saxelmwifo

qonebis erovnuli saagentos

oficialur vebgverdze arsebul

saprivatizebo rukaze.

sawyisi fasi da daniSnuleba.


saagentos oficialuri monacemebiT,

kaxeTSi arsebuli 19 adgilidan

6 adgilis daniSnuleba

sastumro da saganmanaTleblo

dawesebulebaa, 9 adgilis samrewvelo/sasawyobe

meurneoba, 2

savaWro obieqti da sportuli

infrastruqtura.

„saprivatizaciod gamogvaqvs

obieqtebi, romelzedac yvela

SeTanxmeba ukve gaformebulia,

morgebuli aris grg-s (ganaSenianebis

regulirebis gegma, _

red.), winaswar aris Sefasebuli

da Tan erTvis Cveni rekomendacia,

Tu ra saxis biznesi SeiZleba

ganviTardes adgilze. Tavisi

SedegiT es proeqti uprecedentoa.

sxva yvelaferTan erTad es

`saxelmwifom im 100 saprivatizacio obieqtSi Telavidan miwa gamoitana

viTom `samrewvelo sasawyobe meurneobisTvis~. . magram, realurad, es

adgili iyo stadioni, romelzedac mTeli bavSvoba vTamaSobdiT

fexburTs. mere ki orive kari mogvpares, magram xis Zelebi gvqonda da

mainc vTamaSobdiT. axla stadioni, romelic abalaxebulia da aranairi

komunikacia iq araa, uceb iqca `samrewvelo-sasawyobed

samrewvelo-sasawyobed~

baSi, fasSi da a. S.

ise ki dro ucnauria _ mZime

da ukun 90-ainebSi da manamdec

mTeli sofeli im stadionze

fexburTis TamaSis dros ocnebobda,

odesRac pele an givi

Coxeli gaxdeboda...”

mere karebi qurdebma waiRes,

jarTSi Caabares, Zelic dalpa,

bolos pativcemul municipalitetis

mTavrobas daaviwyda stadionis

arseboba... arc sakrebulos

soflis maJoritars gaxsenebia

da rac mTavaria, miwa municipaluri

ki ara, ekonomikis

saministros balansze aRmoCnda.

rogor mianiWes sportul

moedans sawyobis funqcia, gasakviria...

vin iyidis abalaxebul nastadionar

miwas, esec sakiTxavia...

soflis Zroxebi rogor Seeguebian

saZovris dakrgvas, esec

problemaa...

da sanamde miwas gayidian da

statuss SeurCeven, vinmem rom

ikiTxos qonebis marTvis saagentoSi,

ra qoneba iyo adreo, ki

iqneba saintereso namdvilad...

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

31


`qarTuli ocneba~

naadrevad izeima xelisuflebam

Sorena marsagiSvili

sakonstitucio cvlilebis Cagde-

599 92 16 22

ba da naadrevad dauxura opozi-

cias kari _ am Temaze saubari

damTa

Tavrebuliao. diplomatiuri korpusis moTxovniT „qarTulma

ocnebam” keTili ineba da opoziciasTan molaparakebebis mag-

idas miujda, Tanac orjer. diplomatebi ukve Riad amboben, rom

maTTvis mniSvnelovania, saqarTveloSi stabiluroba iyos da

arCevnebi demokratiulad Catardes, rac mxolod im SemTxveva-

Si moxdeba, Tu xelisufleba daTmobaze wava. „qarTuli ocneba”

jer isev jiutobs. umravlesobasa da opozicias Soris Sexve-

dra pirvelad 30 noembers gaimarTa, meored ki _ 8 dekembers.

saqarTveloSi amerikis Seer-

Tebuli Statebis elCis movaleobis

Semsrulebeli elizabeT

rudi imedovnebs, rom xelisuflebisa

da opoziciis warmomadgenlebis

Sexvedra amao ar iqneba.

misi TqmiT, „mmarTveli da

opoziciuri partiebi Sexvdnen

dialogis dasawyebad, ndobis aRdgenisa

da saukeTeso gzis gansazRvris

mizniT, raTa 2020 wlis

saparlamento arCevnebi win gadadgmuli

nabiji gaxdes saqarTvelos

demokratiisken mimaval

gzaze. aSS moxarulia, rom mxardamWer

rols asrulebs da vimedovneb,

am Sexvedras garkveuli

progresi eqneba”.

diplomatebis CarTva rom

Sedegis momtani iqneba, amaSi eWvi

arc „axali saqarTvelos” wevr

ana kobaxiZes epareba.

ratom mouwevs xelisuflebas

daTmobaze wasvla? ras niS-

navs molaparakebebis procesSi

dasavleTeli

partniorebis

CarTva? ratom aRar Wris „sisx-

liani 9 welis” yvirili? rogor

SeinarCuna opoziciam erToba?

_ am Temebze „qronika+~-s „axa-

li saqarTvelos” wevri, ana

kobaxiZe esaubreba:

_ rodesac „qarTulma ocnebam”

proporciul wesze gada-

svlis sakiTxi Caagdo, daibara,

rom es Tema daxuruli iyo da

opozicias SeeZlo, quCaSi dgo-

ma gaegrZelebina. diplomateb-

is moTxovniT ukve meored

miusxdnen molaparakebebis magidas

da tonic aSkarad Secv-

lili aqvT. es ras niSnavs?

_ maTi toni aSkarad Secvlilia,

Zveleburi qedmaRloba aRar

igrZnoba. arc karebis daxurvaze

saubroben. maTi aseTi saxecvlileba

diplomatiuri korpusis

damsaxurebaa.

am procesebs kargad daemTxva

saqarTveloSi evroparlamentarebis

vizitic. „qarTul ocnebas”

amis didi survili ar hqonda,

magram maT mouwia opoziciasTan

erTad erT magidasTan

dajdoma.

molaparakebebs dasTanxmdnen,

magram Seecadnen, rom mas cota

xalxi daswreboda, amitomac wamoayenes

pirobebi. iTxovdnen,

rom SexvedraSi mxolod parlamentis

yofil Tavmjdomareebsa

da saparlamento opoziciis warmomadgenlebs

mieRoT monawile-

oba. opoziciam es moTxovna ar

gaiziara da molaparakebebs gacilebiT

bevri opoziciuri Zalis

warmomadgeneli daeswro.

„ocnebis” mier tonis Secvla

SemTxveviTi ar aris, es imas

moaswavebs, rom maT mainc mouwevT

daTmobebze wasvla.

_ erTia tonis Secvla da

molaparakebebis magidasTan dajdoma

da meorea daTmoba, ratom

ggoniaT, rom „ocneba” daT-

mobaze wamova?

_ damijereT, Cemi optimizmi

usafuZvlo ar aris. Cven saxalxo

damcvelis aparatis meSveobiT

gavagzavneT germanul-qarTuli

modeli euToSi. vfiqrobT, rom

dasavleTSi mas iseTive Sefaseba

miecema, rasac am proeqts opozicia

da arasamTavrobo seqtori

aZlevs. Zalian cnobili da gamocdili

konstitucionalistia

avTandil demetraSvili. isic

ambobs, rom es germanul-qrTuli

modeli Seesabameba saqarTvelos

konstitucias. igives ambobs

daTo jandieric.

opoziciisa da arsamTavroboebis

mxridan am Temaze ganmartebebi

gakeTda da mec gavimeoreb

maT naTqvams, rom yvelam

gaigos: germanul-qarTuli modeli

ar ewinaaRmdegeba Cvens konstitucias.

konstituciis moqmedi

redaqciis mixedviT, momdevno

arCevnebSi parlamenti Sedgeba 77

proporciuli da 73 maJoritaruli

sistemiT arCeuli deputatisgan.

konstitucia gansazRvravs

mxolod proporciuli

da maJoritaruli mandatebis

raodenobas. igi ar akonkretebs,

Sereuli saarCevno sistemis

proporciuli da maJoritaruli

komponentebi paraleluria

Tu proporciuli siis ganawileba

damokidebulia maJoritarul

olqebSi damdgar Sedegebze.

orive komponentSi adgilebis

ganawilebis wess gansazRvravs

„saqarTvelos saarCevno kodeqsi”,

romelic, dRes arsebuli

redaqciiT, proporciul komponentSi

adgilebis maJoritarulisgan

damoukideblad ganawilebas

iTvaliswinebs.

aRniSnuli garemoeba saSualebas

iZleva, „saarCevno kodeqs-

Si” cvlilebis SetaniT, saqarTvelos

parlamentis momdevno

arCevnebisTvis, amoqmeddes Sereuli

saarCevno sistemis „germanuli

modelis” modificirebuli

varianti ise, rom ar Seicvalos

ana kobaxiZe:

`dasavleTis

CarTulobiT

Cven SevZlebT

samarTliani

arCevnebis

Catarebas~

`rac Seexeba `sisxlian 9 wels~, quCaSi dganan

axalgazrdebi, romlebic im 9-wlian periodSi

Zalian patarebi iyvnen da veranair danaSauls ver

Caidendnen. cota uxerxulia maTTvis `sisxlianis

sisxlianis~

daZaxeba. amiT sakuTar Tavs vneben mxolod~

proporciuli da maJoritaruli

adgilebis konstituciiT gansazRvruli

Tanafardoba parlamentis

srul SemadgenlobaSi.

Sereuli saarCevno sistemis

„germanuli modeli” Sereuli wevrobis

proporciuli saarCevno

sistemis tips warmoadgens. igi

amomrCevels saSualebas aZlevs,

airCios rogorc maJoritari

deputati, ise _ partiuli sia.

parlamentSi ki partiebs/saarCevno

blokebs Soris adgilebis

ganawilebis ganmsazRvreli aris

proporciuli sistemis safuZvelze

miRebuli xmebi.

klasikuri „germanuli modeli”

aseve iTvaliswinebs maJoritarul

komponentSi gamovlenili

xmebisa da mandatebis disproporciis

kompensirebas proporciuli

siebiT, risTvisac gamoiyeneba

sakompensacio mandatebi

da ar aris gansazRvruli sakanonmdeblo

organos sruli

Semadgenloba. saqarTveloSi

konstitucia gansazRvravs parlamentis

Semadgenlobas 150 deputatiT.

Tumca maJoritarul

komponentSi gamovlenili mandatebis

araproporciulobis

dabalanseba SesaZlebelia mandatebis

fiqsirebuli jamuri

raodenobis pirobebSic. Sesa-

Zloa, am faqtorma gaarTulos

mandatebis idealuri proporciiT

ganawileba, Tumca nebismier

SemTxvevaSi „germanuli modeliT”

ganawilebuli mandatebi ufro

metad proporciul da samar-

Tlian Tanafardobas mogvcems,

vidre saqarTveloSi dRes moqmedi

saarCevno sistema.

Seqmnili viTarebis gaTvaliswinebiT,

moqmedi saarCevno sistemis

„germanuli modelis” modificirebuli

versiiT Canacvleba

mniSvnelovnad gaaumjobesebs

saarCevno garemos da 2020 wlis

arCevnebis Sedegad SesaZlebels

gaxdis saparlamento mandatebis

ufro samarTlian gadanawilebas.

am cvlilebis miRebas sakonstitucio

umravlesoba ar sWirdeba.

76 xmac sakmarisia saar-

Cevno kodeqsSi am cvlilebis

Sesatanad. axla Cven yvelani eu-

To/odiris daskvnas velodebiT

da darwmunebuli var, iqac imaves

ityvian, rasac saqarTveloSi amboben

opozicia da konstitucionalistebi.

ise aqvs „qarTul

ocnebas” toni Secvlili, rom

SeiZleba, daskvnas daaswron da

ufro adre daiwyon im modelze

muSaoba, romelsac maT Cven

vTavazobT.

_ kaxa kalaZe aqamde ambobda,

Tema mTlianad daxuruliao.

axla ambobs, rom Sereul mod-

elze isaubreben, radganac iq

marTlac aris cvlilebebi Sesa-

tani.

_ Zalian kargi, Tu Sereul

modelze apireben saubars. Cven

mier SeTavazebuli germanulqarTuli

modeli swored rom

Sereuli sistemaa, iq mxolod

proporciuli wesiT arCevnebis

Catarebaze ar aris saubari.

_ opozicia srulad aris

SeTanxmebuli am modelze? xom

ar aris imis albaToba, rom xval

romelime partiam SeiZleba es

modeli daiwunos.

_ es modeli, razedac axla

Cven vsaubrobT, yvela opoziciur

partiasTan aris SeTanxmebuli,

maT Soris, „patriotTa

aliansTanac”. 28 partias aqvs

xeli mowerili am SeTanxmebaze.

ar vici, samomavlod rogor

ganvTardeba movlenebi da viRacam

SeiZleba daiwunos es modeli,

magram am etapze yvela opoziciuri

partia mas mxars uWers.

yvelas miaCnia, rom arsebuli

viTarebidan gamosvla mxolod

am modelis miRebiT SeiZleba.

_ opoziciuri erToba,

romelic dRes arsebobs, sak-

maod Wrelia. xelisufleba da

misi momxreebi xSirad gamunaTeben,

rom prodasavlurebi prorusulebis

gverdiT ratom xar-

To.

_ mec ver warmovidgendi, rom

odesme prorusuli ideologiis

partiebTan erTad davdgebodi

sadme, magram dRes qveyanas ase

sWirdeba. xelisuflebis damsaxurebaa,

ase rom moxda. sxvebis

damunaTebas urCevniaT, sakuTar

Tavs mosTxovon pasuxi. es erToba,

romelic axla Sedga, Cemi

azriT, zepartiuli gaerTianebaa.

proporciuli arCevnebi

32

32 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


gedis simReras mReris~

aris is, rac Cven gvaerTianebs.

Cven erT blokad rom gaver-

TianebuliyaviT, ra Tqma unda,

ar momewoneboda, rom blokSi

prorusuli Zala yofiliyo, magram

es ar aris arc partia da

arc saarCevno bloki. Cven mxolod

samarTliani arCevnebis

Catarebis survili gvaerTianebs.

am survilis mimarT xalxic solidarulia.

_ ise, uxerxulobas ar giqm-

niT, rom ruseTs okupantad

TvliT da am dros molaparakebebis

magidasTan mjdomi erT-

erTi persona moskovSi midis?

nino burjanaZes vgulisxmob.

_ nino burjanaZe moskovSi

rom midis molaparakebebis gasamarTavad,

es me aranair uxerxulobas

ar miqmnis. mas Tavisi

Sexedulebebi aqvs da sad wava

vizitiT, es mxolod misi da misi

partiis gadasawyvetia.

Cemi partiis romelime wevri

da gansakuTrebiT misi lideri

moskovSi rom wasuliyo, Zalian

mZafri da mwvave reaqcia meqneboda,

sruli seriozulobiT

geubnebiT, rom radikalur gadawyvetilebas

miviRebdi, magram

axla ra gavaprotesto? ra Cemi

saqmea, ras gaakeTebs sxva partiis

lideri. nino burjanaZe sul

sxva partias warmoadgens da is

arasdros malavda, rom ruseT-

Tan surs dialogi. is aqamdec

dadioda ruseTSi da roca es ambebi

Caivlis, moskovSi merec

wava. am viTarebaSi cota gaugebaria

„qarTuli ocnebis” mcdeloba,

rom mTeli opozicia erTnairad

prorusulad gamogvacxados.

_ ise, burjanaZis moskovSi

wasvlaze marTla ucnauri is-

terika moawyves, TiTqos Tavad

ar hyavdaT gavrilovi Camoyvanili

da Tavad ar Casves afxaze-

Tisa da cxinvalis damoukideblobis

amRiarebeli saqarTvelos

parlamentis spikeris sa-

varZelSi.

_ amis gaxseneba, ratomRac, ar

undaT. arada, swored am gavrilovis

vizits moyva is procesebi,

rac dRes saqarTveloSi mimdinareobs.

gavrilovis Camosvlis

gasaprotesteblad quCaSi

gamosul xalxs xelisuflebam

Tvalebi dasTxara. amas sazogadoebis

mxridan umwvavesi protesti

moyva. xelisufleba iZulebuli

gaxda, xalxi daemSvidebina.

ivaniSvili Tavad gamovida

da Tqva, rom „ocneba” mzad iyo

saarCevno sistema Seecvala da

srulad proporciul modelze

gadasuliyo.

amis piroba „ocnebis” liderma

qarTveli xalxis garda saer-

TaSoriso Tanamegobrobasac misca.

mere yvela erTad gadagvagdo.

arc dasavleTi da arc qar-

Tveli xalxi amas ar moiTmens.

gavrilovis ambavi yvelas gvaxsovs

da kargi iqneba, Tu „ocneba”

sxvas prorusul iarliys ar

miakerebs. vimeoreb: nino burja-

`Zalian cnobili da gamocdili konstitucionalistia avTandil

demetraSvili. isic ambobs, rom es germanul-qrTuli modeli Seesabameba

saqarTvelos konstitucias. igives ambobs daTo jandieric.

opoziciisa da arsamTavroboebis mxridan am Temaze ganmartebebi gakeTda

da mec gavimeoreb maT naTqvams, rom yvelam gaigos: germanul-qarTuli

modeli ar ewinaaRmdegeba Cvens konstitucias~

naZe warmoadgens konkretul partias

da moskovSi midis, rogorc

am Zalis lideri da ara

rogorc gaerTianebuli opoziciis

warmomadgeneli.

dReisTvis arsebuli opoziciuri

gaerTianeba aris zepartiuli

erToba, romelsac Zalian

kargi saqmis gakeTeba SeuZlia

saqarvelosTvis. amas xalxic

grZnobs da amitomac dgas sazogadoeba

Cven gverdiT.

biZina ivaniSvilma erTaderTi

kargi rac gaakeTa is iyo, rom

opozicia srulad gaaerTiana.

aseTi erToba SesaZlebeli Tu

iyo, albaT, veravin warmoidgenda.

Cvens aseT erTobas xedavs

rogorc diplomatiuri korpusi,

aseve evroparlamentarebi, veneciis

komisiac da euToc. es ukanaskneli

male gamoagzavnis daskvnas

Cven mier modificirebul

modelze. aseTi erTianoba rom

ara, arc dasavleTi dainteresdeboda

Cveni ambiT da „qarTuli

ocneba” marTla mWidrod miiketavda

kars da aravis araferze ar

daelaparakeboda.

protestis wyalobiT maT

mainc vaiZulebdiT karis gaRebas,

magram diplomatebis CarTvam

es procesi Zalian daaCqara.

_ „ocnebas” molaparakebebi-

sTvis karis gaReba rom mouwia,

amaze samoqalaqo aqtivistma

giorgi mRebriSvilma aseTi rame

Tqva: ise moajaxuna „ocnebam”

kari, rom meore mxares gaiRoo.

mgoni, marTla ase mouvidaT.

_ asea. Zalian magrad mouwiaT

karis mijaxuneba da aRar

ufiqriaT, Tu ra moyveboda amas.

„ocnebis” es mdgomareoba erT

cnobil ambavs magonebs: parlamentis

garSemo rkinis Robeebi

rom aRmarTes, xom gaxsovT? iq

erTma qalbatonma rom gamoangria

es barikadebi, amas magonebs

dialogisTvis daxuruli karis

òcnebis~ es mdgomareoba erT cnobil ambavs

magonebs: parlamentis garSemo rkinis Robeebi

rom aRmarTes, xom gaxsovT? iq erTma

qalbatonma rom gamoangria es barikadebi,

amas magonebs dialogisTvis daxuruli karis

gaReba. am SemTxvevaSi im qalis rolSi

diplomatebi arian, maT Seungries daxuruli

kari `qarTul ocnebas~

gaReba. am SemTxvevaSi im qalis

rolSi diplomatebi arian, maT

Seungries daxuruli kari „qar-

Tul ocnebas”. Zalian kargia,

dasavleTi rom ase CaerTo am

procesebSi. rodesac es barikadebi

aRgvimarTes, vambobdi,

rom msoflios yvela qveyanaSi

aqvT TiTo-TiTo saarCevno modeli,

_ an iseTi an aseTi. CvenTan

ki ori modelia. barikadebs miRmaa

SerCeuli sistema, saqarTveloSi

ki ori sistemaa.

erTi sistemaa oligarqis,

romliTac is Zalauflebis SenarCunebas

cdilobs da meore

sistemaa, rasac xalxi da opozicia

iTxovs. srulad proporciul

sistemaze gadasvla niSnavs

koaliciur mTavrobas, normalur

sasamarTlos da arc

erTi kacis mmarTvelobas. am

erTi kacis mmarTvelobam miiyvana

es qveyana dangrevis piras.

_ ambobT, CvenTan erTad ari-

an moqalaqeebio. xelisufleba

am moqalaqeebs isev sisxliani 9

wliT da „nacionalebis” dabrunebiT

aSinebs. es ar giqmniT

diskomforts? _ yvelas, vinc iq

dgaxarT, „nacionalebs” geZax-

ian.

_ Temis marginalizeba „qarTulma

ocebam” moaxdina _ prorus

nino burjanaZesac da prorus

irma inaSvilsac „nacionalur

moZraobas” eZaxian. es xom sasaciloa,

magram amaze ar SeCerdnen

da kidev ufro „saintereso”

rame Tqves. biZina ivaniSvilma

Tavis interviuSi iseTi gavleniani

organizaciebi, rogorebicaa

„endiai” da „airai” ” „nacionaluri

moZraobis” filialad gamoacxada

lamis. aseTi Sefasebebis mere

es xalxi seriozulad vin unda

aRiqvas?

adre romelime partia marTla

moerideboda „nacionalebis”

gverdiT dadgomas, SeeSindeboda,

rom maTTvis „sisxliani na-

cionalis” iarliyi ar miewebebinaT,

axla ki „ocnebam” Tema ise

gaamarginala, rom „nacionalobis”

dabraleba ukve sasaciloa.

aseve aRarc „sisxlian 9 welze”

saubari Wris. xalxi amaze

ukve ar reagirebs. xalxs simSvide

da qveynis ganviTareba surs,

eseni ki gamudmebiT warsulze

saubroben.

_ im adamianebze ras gvetyviT,

vinc quCaSi gamodis da de-

miSizaciis process iTxovs?

_ es adamianebi ar gamoxataven

qarTveli xalxis azrs. yvelam

icis, rom isini xelisuflebis

mier imarTebian. ar vambob,

rom vinmes, Tundac am adamianebs,

ar aqvT saakaSvilis an „nacionalebis”

kritikis ufleba, magram

isini sakuTar azrs ar gamoxataven.

am radikali tipebis ukan

„qarTuli ocneba” dgas.

mmarTveli partia CixSia da

aseTi agresiuli qmedebebiT

cdilobs suraTis Secvlas. maT

rom movlenebis mSvidobiani ganviTareba

sdomodaT, proporciul

wesze gadasvlis sakiTxs ar

Caagdebdnen.

maT araerTi Sida kvleva Caatares,

saidanac daaskvnes, rom

amomrCevlis mxardaWera aRar

aqvT. daTvales da dainaxes, rom

parlamentSi araTu sakonstitucio,

aramed Cveulebriv umravlesobasac

ver miiRebdnen. aseT

SemTxvevaSi mTavrobis dasakompleqteblad

opoziciur partiebTan

dasWirdebodaT aliansi.

bevri eZebes, magram opozicia-

Sic ver monaxes iseTi Zala,

romelTan erTadac koaliciur

mTavrobas Seqmnidnen. amitom

gadawyvites, rom saukeTeso gamosavli

iqneboda proporciul

wesze gadasvlis sakiTxis Cagdeba.

imdeni ver gaTvales, rom es

maTac CixSi Seiyvanda da _ qveyanasac.

sisxlian „nacionalebze”

ZaxiliT am Cixidan ver gamovlen.

arc imis Sansi aqvT, rom am SeZaxilebiT

opoziciur erTobas

daSlian. maTi mcdelobis miuxedavad,

Cven erTmaneTTan, am

etapze, kinklaobas ar vapirebT.

rac Seexeba „sisxlian 9 wels”,

quCaSi dganan axalgazrdebi,

romlebic im 9-wlian periodSi

Zalian patarebi iyvnen da veranair

danaSauls ver Caidendnen.

cota uxerxulia maTTvis „sisxlianis”

daZaxeba. amiT sakuTar

Tavs vneben mxolod.

arc me da arc sxvebi ar vambobT,

rom maSin yvelaferi kargad

iyo, magram amisTvis daisaja

„nacionaluri moZraoba” _ xalxma

is arCevnebis gziT gauSva.

imaze saubari, rom am partiis

warmomadgenlebi unda daisajon,

isev „ocnebas” agdebs uxerxul

mdgomareobaSi. mjera, rom dasavleTis

CarTulobiT SevZlebT

samarTliani arCevnebis Catarebas.

opoziciis winaaRmdeg kontraqciebis

mowyoba mxolod erT

rameze miuTiTebs, xelisufleba

gedis simReras mReris.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

33

nene injgia

591 71 39 98

mmarTvel gundSi mimdinare

politikuri procesebis dakvirvebis Sedegad, rogorc Cans,

mixvdnen, rom axalgazrdebi mniSvnelovan rols TamaSoben

arsebul politikur viTarebaSi da, aqedan gamomdinare, maT

asparezze TavianTi axalgazrduli organizacia gamoiyvanes.

2 dekembers „qarTuli ocnebis” ofisTan erTmaneTs daupir-

ispirdnen moZraoba „sircxvilias”, „Secvalesa” da partia

„qarTuli ocnebis” axalgazrduli organizaciis warmomadgenlebi.

raze metyvelebs „qarTuli ocnebis” axalgazrduli organizaciis

gaaqtiureba? aSinebs Tu ara ivaniSvils axalgazr-

duli protesti da ras upirispirebs xelisuflebis mxridan

dawyebul Sav piars politikuri platforma „gabede”?


bze „qronika+~ „qristian-demokratiuli

moZraobis” presspikersa

da „gabedes” wevr nita sixaru-

liZes esaubra:

_ sakonstitucio cvlilebeb-

is Cagdebis gamo ra politikuri

fasis gadaxda uwevs „qarTul

ocnebas”?

_ ukve 30 welia, rac Cveni qveyana

erTsa da imave wreze trialebs.

me, rogorc axalgazrda politikosi,

vfiqrob, rom „qarTuli ocneba”

zustad im beds gaiziarebs,

rac SevardnaZisa da mixeil saakaSvilis

xelisuflebam gaiziara, _ es

Cven ukve vnaxeT. rodesac Sens mosaxleobas

hpirdebi proporciul

saarCevno sistemaze gadasvlas da

es ar aris mxolod qveynis SigniT

gacemuli dapireba, aramed xelisuflebam

piroba dado rogorc

„gaeros”, aseve evrokavSiris wina-

Se, da naTqvams ar asruleb, es cinizmi

da mosaxleobis dacinvaa. faqtobrivad,

mTeli msoflio Tvals

adevnebda Cvens qveyanaSi mimdinare

politikur procesebs. qarTuli

sazogadoeba da Cveni partniori

qveynebi elodnen, rom 2020 wlidan

proporciul saarCevno sistemaze

gadavidodiT. ivaniSvilma saerTa-

Soriso masStabis gadagdeba Caidina,

amitom mas qarTveli xalxi aucileblad

gascems iseT pasuxs,

rac SevardnaZisa da saakaSvilis

xelisuflebas gasca. zustad 30

weli erTsa da imave wreze vtrialebT.

vfiqrob, xelisuflebas

ufro meti goniereba unda hqonoda,

rom warsuli xelisuflebebis

magaliTze eswavla da aseTi Secdoma

ar daeSva. realurad, proporciuli

saarCevno sistema imis

SesaZleblobas iZleoda, rom qveyanaSi

ar gvqonoda orpolusiani

mmarTveloba. am SemTxvevaSi, ra

Tqma unda, „qarTul ocnebasa” da

„nacionalur moZraobas” vgulisxmob.

aseve proporciuli saarCevno

sistemis pirobebSi SesaZlebloba

gvqonda, rom mravalpartiuli

parlamenti gvqonoda da, aqedan

gamomdinare, qveyana ar Sevidoda

politikur krizisSi.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom xalxi

ivaniSvils pasuxs gascems, Tumca

sakonstitucio

cvlilebebis

Cagdebas masStaburi aqciebi ar

moyva. rogor fiqrobT, ra aris

amis mizezi? aris Tu ara „na-

cionalebis” mobrunebis SiSi?

_ zogadad, yvela Cveni xelisufleba

miCveulia, rom sanam 30-40

aTasi adamiani ar gamova rusTavelze,

manam xelisufleba ar icvleba.

vfiqrob, krizisis procesi

dawyebulia, ramac permanentuli

xasiaTi miiRo. igi aucileblad miva

im mocemulobamde, rasac Semdeg

xelisuflebis cvlileba moyveba.

rac Seexeba „nacionaluri moZraobis”

xelisuflebaSi mobrunebas,

ra Tqma unda, sazogadoebis did

nawils amis eSinia. vfiqrob, Tu

„nacionaluri moZraoba” xelisuflebaSi

dabrundeba, es procesi

aucileblad miva samoqalaqo dapirispirebamde.

is, rom saprotesto

talRa ar aris masStaburi, amas

amJamindeli periodic ganapirobebs.

rogorc mogexsenebaT, sapro-


testo muxti, ZiriTadad, gazafxulze

an Semodgomazea. „qarTuli

ocnebis” xelisufleba Tavis am

„gadagdebaze” qarTveli xalxisgan

aucileblad miiRebs pasuxs. Sesa-

Zloa, es iyos gazafxulze an Semodgomaze.

Tu gazafxulze moxdeba,

ra Tqma unda, vadamdeli saparlamento

arCevnebi Catardeba.

_ xelisuflebis mTavari gzavnili

politikuri performanseb-

is paralelurad aseTia: „vinc

quCaSi dgas, yvela nacionalia”, am

mesijs iyeneben axalgazrdebTan

mimarTebiTac. rogor fiqrobT,

ramdenad imuSavebs xelisufleb-

is es strategia?

_ „qarTuli ocneba” da „nacionaluri

moZraoba”, mTeli am 7 wlis

manZilze, erTmaneTs kvebavs. „qar-

Tuli ocneba” Cvens moqalaqeebs

aSinebs, _ Tu maT ar dauWerdnen

mxars, mudmivad apelirebdnen imaze,

rom „nacionaluri moZraoba”

dabrundeboda xelisuflebaSi.

swored „qarTuli ocnebis” damsaxurebaa

is, rom „nacionaluri moZraoba”

dRes aseTi raodenobiT aris

warmodgenili parlamentSi. rac

Seexeba axalgazrdebs, Cveni politikuri

pltforma aris interpartiuli

gaerTianeba „gabede”, sadac

warmodgenilia TiTqmis yvela

opoziciuri politikuri partiis

axalgazrduli organizacia. „qarTuli

ocneba” cdilobs, rom

sazogadoeba SecdomaSi Seiyvanos,

TiTqos Cven „nacionaluri moZraobisgan”

marTuli Zala varT. am

narativiT „qarTuli ocneba” Cveni

mxardamWerebis daSinebas cdilobs,

TiTqos Cven varT „nacionaluri

moZraobis” warmomadgenlebi

da yofili kmarelebi, Tumca

vfiqrob, rom xelisuflebis es

gzavnili didxans ar gastans, radgan

rac ufro dro gadis, sazogadoebaSi

ufro metad popularuli

xdeba „gabede” da xalxi nel-nela

rwmundeba, rom Cven „nacionaluri

moZraobis” danayofebi da nafotebi

ar varT, rogorc gviwodebs

iusticiis ministri.

_ ras upirispirebT xelisu-

flebis am narativs?

_ Cveni gaerTianeba „gabede”

Zalian bevri politikuri partiisgan

Sedgeba, me piradad var „qristian-demokratiuli

moZraobis”

warmomadgeneli, aseve aris „Tavisufali

saqarTvelo”, burjanaZis

partia, daviT WiWinaZis „tribuna”

da a. S. Tumca Cvens politikur

platformaSi ar arian „nacionaluri

moZraobis” mxardamWeri

politikuri partiebi an uSualod

„nacionaluri moZraoba”. Cven xelisuflebis

Savi piaris sapirwoned

gvaqvs swored is, rom ar varT

„nacionaluri moZraobisgan” mar-

Tuli da arc „nacionaluri moZraoba”

gvafinansebs. Cven Cveni partiebis

liderebTan gavdivarT konsultaciebs

da minimalur Tanxebs,

rac gvWirdeba, Cveni Sida dafinansebidan

viRebT, romelic oficialuri

informaciaa, yvela politikuri

partiis Sesaxeb dafinanseba

sajaroa. Tu „qarTuli ocneba”

fiqrobs, rom „nacionalebis”

daZaxebiT zians mogvayenebs, Zalian

cdeba. mimaCnia, rom es iyo bi-

nita sixaruliZe:

ìvaniSvili

represiuli

politikiT

`gabedes~ ver

SeaSinebs~

Zina ivaniSvilis davaleba uSualod

misi xelis biWebis misamarTiT.

Cven sadac ki mivediT, maT Soris,

merab qvaraiasTan, guram maWaraSvilTan

da gamovxateT protesti,

amasTan dakavSirebiT zustad erTi

da igive teqsti aqvT mdinaraZes,

oxanaSvilsa da kobaxiZes, rom Ti-

Tqos Cven varT „nacionaluri moZraobis”

mier marTuli. es ase ar

aris da rac ufro dro gava, sazogadoeba

miT ufro darwmundeba

amaSi. Cveni gaerTianeba interpartiuli

formatisaa da axalgazrdebs

gvamoZravebs is, rom er-

Txel da samudamod politikurma

temperaturam daiwios qveyanaSi da

procesebma parlamentSi gadainacvlos

da ar gagrZeldes quCaSi,

rogorc es bolo 30 welia xdeba.

_ Tqveni TqmiT, ivaniSvilis

davaleba iyo Tqveni politikuri

platformis

diskreditacia.

rogor fiqrobT, biZina ivaniSvili

axalgazrdebs realur sa-

frTxed aRiqvams?

_ Zalian cudi tendencia iyo

Cvens qveyanaSi damkvidrebuli,

rom axalgazrdebi politikaSi ar

ereodnen. vfiqrob, es miTi nelnela

imsxvreva. dResdReobiT

saprotesto muxti axalgazrdebSi

ufro da ufro gaZlierda. Cvenma

politikurma gaerTianeba „gabedem”

minimalur droSi sakmaod ma-

Rali reitingi moipova. daaxloebiT,

5 dRis Seqmnilebi viyaviT,

roca mTelma saqarTvelom gaigo

Cveni politikuri gaerTianebis saxeli

da Tu vin iyo am gaerTianebis

wevri. ivaniSvili marTlac fiqrobs,

rom Cvengan garkveuli safrTxea

mosalodneli da es mar-

Tlac asea imitom, rom Cvens gund-

Si arian axalgazrda politikosebi,

romlebsac aseTi mmarTvelobis

forma yelSi amouvidaT.

_ Tqven mier gamarTul aqcie-

bze xelisuflebam Tavisi momxr-

eebi dagaxvedraT, romlebic agr-

esiulad iqceodnen, sityvier da

fizikur Seuracxyofas gayenebd-

nen, raze metyvelebs is faqti,

rom xelisufleba kontraqciebiT

cdilobs Tqvens ganeitralebas?

_ Cven minimum, wina dRiT mainc

`zustad 30 weli erTsa da imave wreze

vtrialebT. vfiqrob, xelisuflebas ufro meti

goniereba unda hqonoda, rom warsuli

xelisuflebebis magaliTze eswavla da aseTi

Secdoma ar daeSva. realurad, proporciuli

saarCevno sistema imis SesaZleblobas

iZleoda, rom qveyanaSi ar gvqonoda

orpolusiani mmarTveloba. am SemTxvevaSi, ra

Tqma unda, `qarTul ocnebasa~ da `nacionalur

moZraobas~ vgulisxmob~

vaanonsebT Cvens politikur performansebsa

da aqciebs. ivaniSvilis

xelisufleba mudmivad koncentrirebulia

erT rameze, rom

daqiravebuli „tituSkebi” dagvaxvedros.

isini Cveni gaerTianebis

diskreditacias cdiloben da,

amavdroulad, represiuli politika

aqvT. albaT, ivaniSvils hgonia,

rom Tu Cvens biWebs daiWeren,

amiT SegvaSinebs, Tumca Zalian

cdeba. rodesac mcxeTaSi dimitri

xundaZesTan Sesaxvedrad CavediT,

rogorc Cans, xelisuflebam ver

moaxerxa Tavisi zonderebis mobilizeba

da qalaqis meri dagvaxvedra.

es xom yvelaze samarcxvino

faqtia politikur istoriaSi,

rodesac qalaqis meri maJoritaris

pirad dacvad gvevlineba. ivaniSvili

represiuli politikiT

„gabedes” ver SeaSinebs, _ ramdeni

adamiani unda daiWiros?! „gabedes”

feisbuq gverdze registracia gamovacxadeT

da Zalian bevri adamiani

SemogvierTda, maT Soris

sruliad apolitikuri axalgazrdebic

_ mas Semdeg, rac Cveni organizaciis

Sesaxeb gaiges, CvenTan

erTad brZola gadawyvites. aseTi

Zalian bevri gvyavs da bevric SemogvierTdeba.

namdvilad ar vuSindebiT

dakavebebs, Cveni saxelis

diskreditaciasa da arc imas, rom

Cveni biWebi scemes da saavadmyofoSi

mouwiaT gadayvana. es namdvilad

ar gvaZlevs imis safuZvels,

rom raime mimarTulebiT ukan davixioT,

Cveni protesti ar Sewydeba,

mudmivad vecdebiT, rom ivaniSvilsa

da mis damqaSebs maqsimaluri

diskomforti SevuqmnaT,

zustad iseTive, rogorSic Seiyvanes

Cveni qveyana.

_ „ocnebis” ofisTan moZraoba

„sircxviliasa” da „Secvales”

wevr

vrebsa da „qarTuli ocnebis”

axalgazrdul organizacias Sor-

is dapirispireba moxda. „ocnebis”

axalgazrduli

organizaciis

wevrebi agresiulebi iyvnen. raze

metyvelebs es faqti?

_ biZina ivaniSvilis gundi gakotrebulia.

politikuri partiebis

axalgazrdebma aseTi aqtiuroba

gamoiCines da didi doziT CaverieT

politikur procesebSi, amas

ivaniSvili xedavs da vfiqrob, rom

is axla „qarTuli ocnebis” axalgazrduli

organizaciis gaaqtiurebiT

cdilobs xelisuflebis

uzurpacias. is axalgazrdebs amis

erT-erT iaraRad iyenebs. 7 welia,

rac „qarTuli ocneba” xelisuflebaSia

da maTi axalgazrduli

organizaciis mxridan msgavsi aqtivoba

namdvilad ar gvinaxavs.

xavss rom eWideba adamiani, zustad

aseTi pozicia aqvs ivaniSvils. Tu

2020 wlis 31 oqtombramde mivida,

mas aucileblad mouwevs xelisuflebidan

wasvla da Tu manamde

saparlamento arCevnebi dainiSna,

igive Sedegs miiRebs.

_ garda imisa, rom „gabede”

politikur performansebs xSirad

iyenebs, ra alternatiuli geg-

mebi gaqvT?

_ uaxloes momavalSi ramdenime

politikuri partiis axalgazrduli

organizacia SemogvierTdeba,

amaze konsultaciebi mimdinareobs,

jerjerobiT partiis dasaxelebisgan

Tavs Sevikaveb. Cven gav-

ZlierdebiT, am protests ar SevwyvetT,

ar SeveguebiT biZina ivaniSvilis

gadagdebebs. Cveni ZiriTadi

moTxovnaa vadamdeli proporciuli

arCevnebi, romelic samarTlianad

Catardeba. mudmivad viqnebiT

tonusSi da manam gavagrZelebT

brZolas, sanam biZina ivaniSvili

saprotesto moTxovnebs ar daakmayofilebs.

Tu mas hgonia, rom

Cven raime gziT SegvaCerebs, Zalian

cdeba, _ am azrs yovelTvis sajarod

vafiqsireb.

34

34 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

saqarTvelos damoukideblobis mopovebis Semdgom axlad

dabadebuli saxelmwifos Seqmnisa da ganviTarebis, aseve nor-

maluri sazogadoebis Camoyalibebis erT-erT ZiriTad xelis

SemSlel faqtors warmoadgenda organizebuli danaSaulis

mwyobri sistema, romlis saTaveSic „kanonieri qurdebi” imyofebodnen.

aseT danaSaulebriv gaerTianebas analogi ar gaaCnda.

isini xelmZRvanelobdnen sxvadasxva danaSaulebriv saqmi-

anobas, Tanamdebobis pirebisa Tu Cveulebrivi moqalaqeebis

mimarT iyenebdnen muqaras, SantaJs, gatacebas, rekets, gamoZa-

lvas. qurduli samyaros wevrebi fuls awerdnen indmewarmeebs,

sxvadasxva sawarmosa da savaWro obieqtebis xelmZRvanelebs,

„kanonieri qurdebi” arCevdnen saqmeebs ara mxolod mewarmeebs

Soris, aramed Tanamdebobis pirebs Sorisac ki.

„vardebis revoluciis” Semdeg

samarTaldamcvel organoebs daevalaT

„kanonieri qurdebis” institutis

mospoba. 2005 wlis 20 dekembers

Seicvala sakanonmdeblo

bazac. miiRes „organizebuli danaSaulisa

da reketis Sesaxeb” saqarTvelos

kanonis axali redaqcia.

am kanonis mizani organizebuli

danaSaulis, qurduli samyarosa

da reketis aRmofxvra iyo. ssk 223/

1-e muxli realurad amuSavda. is

iTvaliswinebs sisxlissamarTlebriv

pasuxismgeblobas qurduli

samyaros wevrobisTvis an „kanon-

xnis ocneba iyo, gamxdariyo „kanonieri

qurdi”. am miznis misaRwevad

Seqmna partia „qarTuli ocneba”,

romelic realurad daexmara

Tavisi ocnebis SesrulebaSi, gamxdariyo

saqarTveloSi erTaderTi

„kanonieri qurdi”. biZina ivaniSvilis

mier Seqmnil „kanonieri qurdis”

instituts analogi ar gaaCnia

dRemde saxelmwifoTa marTvis

praqtikaSi.

Tu wina xelisuflebis dros

SesaZlebeli iyo „kanonieri qurdebis”

ganeitraleba, dRes radikalurad

Secvlili viTarebaa. „kan-


„kanonierma qurdma” axali saxis

danaSauli moigona da Caidina,

kerZod, aswlovani xeebis moTxra

da xeTa mogzauroba, ra drosac

mosiarule xeebisTvis nadgurdeboda

yvela xe, buCqi, romelic maT

uSlida xels gadaadgilebaSi. ase-

Ti qmedebiT saqarTvelos ekosistemasa

da bunebas gamousworebeli

ziani miayena.

gamoZiebis Seswavlis sagani unda

gaxdes „kanonieri qurdis” mier

saxelmwifos kuTvnilebaSi myofi

obieqtebisa da miwebis larad yidvis

faqtebi. unda gairkves, rogor

SeZlo botanikuri baRis kuTvnili

farTis Tavisi rezidenciisTvis

mierTeba; Savi zRvis sanapiro zolis

garkveuli nawilis misakuTreba.

ukanonod miTvisebuli Ti-

Toeuli goji miwa unda daibrunos

qveyanam.

„kanonieri qurdis” mier qarTuli

saxelmwifos dasustebis xarjze

kidev ufro gamdidrebis mcdelobad

unda CaiTvalos strategiuli

obieqtebis kerZo interesebisadmi

daqvemdebareba da am

obieqtebis xelovnuri gakotreba,

ise rogorc es gaukeTa saqarTve-

ieri qurdobisTvis”.

gatarebulma erToblivma RonisZiebebma

Sedegi gamoiRo, _ 26

„kanonieri qurdi” erTad moTavsda

me-7 dawesebulebaSi, danarCeni ki

gaiqca saqarTvelodan. Sewyda adamianTa

gatacebebi fulis gamoZalvis

mizniT, a/manqanis gataceba

da sxva gavrcelebuli danaSaulebi

minimumamde davida. amasTan, dabal

da saSualo rgolSi TiTqmis mTlianad

aRmoifxvra korufcia. korufciis

aRmofxvrasa da sxva gatarebul

reformebSi gadamwyveti

roli iTamaSa miliarderma biZina

ivaniSvilma, romelmac sakuTari

jibidan daafinansa reformebi da

xelfasze danamati dauniSna sajaro

moxeleebs. es danamati bevrad

aRemateboda xelfass.

2012 wlis bolodan, xelisuflebis

Secvlis Semdeg, axali xelisufleba

Seecada igive samarTlebrivi

kursis SenarCunebas, magram

korufciisa da „kanonieri

qurdebisgan” gawmendil velze

gamoCnda erTi adamini, romelmac

„kanonieri qurdis” funqciebi Sei-

Tavsa. ezope dasjis SiSiT Tavis

saTqmels igav-arakebiT gadmoscemda.

me ar mivbaZav mas da pirdapir

vityvi: am „kanonieri qurdis”

funqciis mimTviseblis gvari yvelam

icis. es aris igive biZina

ivaniSvili, romelic niSnavs prezidentebs,

deputatebs, yvela did

Tanamdebobis pirs, marTavs saxelmwifos,

magram rogorc „kanonier

qurds” ar ukavia arc erTi saxelmwifo

Tanamdeboba da araferze

iRebs pasuxismgeblobas. man miliardebs

miliardebi daamata,

ufaso fulis nacvlad xalxs cxovreba

gauZvira da Cemi qveyana

Tavis safeodalod gadaaqcia. ai,

Turme, wina xelisuflebis dros

ratom da ra mizniT eweoda qvelmoqmedebas,

misi ocneba-mizani gaxldaT

is, rom TviTon surda mosuliyo

xelisuflebaSi, ara prezidentad

an premier-ministrad,

aramed „kanonier qurdad”, romelsac

aqvs mxolod uflebebi da _

araviTari movaleoba. misi didi

onieri qurdis” daqvemdebarebaSia

yvela specsamsaxuri, yvela saxelmwifo

uwyeba da xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi, romlebic saTamaSo

Tojinebad iqcnen. „kanonier

qurds” SeuZlia, nebismieri donis

Cinovniks erTad da cal-calke

mosTxovos Sarvlis Caxda. samsaxuris

SenarCunebis motiviT Cinovnikebi

mzad arian biZina ivaniSvilis

nebismieri moTxovnis Sesasruleblad,

isini „kanonieri qurdis”

mmarTvelobis ZiriTad

dasayrdens warmoadgenen.

„kanonieri qurdis” sakadro

politika gamomdinareobs ara saxelmwifo,

aramed mxolod misi pirad

interesebidan. is saxelmwifopolitikur

Tanamdebobaze niSnavs

piradi erTgulebis mixedviT pirad

mcvelebsa da pirad eqimebs.

mxolod erTi ministria, romelic

mis xelSi ucvlelad inarCunebs

Tanamdebobas. aseTi suliT maxinji

arseba iSviaTobaa, ram Seayvara

wulukiani „kanonier qurds”, amoucnobia.

moaxloebul saparlamento

arCevnebs „kanonieri qurdi” mSvidad

uyurebs, vinaidan saxelisuflebo

resursi mis xelSia, mis

xelSia xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi,

maTi ojaxebi, mosyiduli

inteligencia Tu sxvadasxva dargis

muSaki, romlebsac xelfasi

aqvT daniSnuli, bolos mis mxaresaa

is, vinc atarebs arCevnebs da

iTvlis xmebs. mSvidadaa, rdgan

fiqrobs, rom Tavisi finansebiT

kidev SeZlebs xalxis mosyidvas;

Tu xalxi wina arCevnebis dros

gaiyida, gaiyideba momavalSic,

ufro did fulze.

Zvelma „kanonierma qurdebma”

icodnen sityvis fasi, isini mocemul

sityvas arasodes texdnen. am

„kanonierma qurdma” es tradiciac

Secvala, daiviwya sityvis fasi da

mTeli saqarTvelo araerTxel

gadaagdo, bolos gadaagdo maSin,

roca jer Sehpirda xalxs, rom uzrunvelyofda

proporciuli wesiT

arCevnebis Catarebas, Semdeg ifiqra,

rom proporciuli wesiT

`kanonieri qurdi~

Catarebul arCevnebSi SesaZlebeli

iyo, ver SeenarCunebina Zalaufleba,

amitom xalxisTvis micemuli sityva

gatexa da xalxi gadaagdo.

xalxi ver itans TaRliTebsa da

gadamgdebebs, amitom es gadagdeba

Zalian Zviri daujdeba „kanononier

qurds”.

msoflio istoria ar icnobs,

yovelgvari Tanamdebobis dakavebis

gareSe, „kanonieri qurdis” mier

erTpirovnulad saxelmwifos mar-

Tvis faqts. es mxolod biZina

ivaniSvilma SeZlo. magram aseTi

stiliT da „kanonieri qurdis”

funqciebiT aRWurvilma miliarderma

mmarTvelobis Svidi wlis man-

Zilze mravali danaSaulis Cadena

SeZlo, ramac arsebiTi ziani miayena

saqarTvelos sazogadoebas,

kulturasa da saxelmwifoebriobas.

man saqarTvelos mravali

miliardis ziani miayena.

yvelaze amazrzeni, antiqarTuli

da saqarTvelos istoriisa da

kulturis winaaRmdeg mimarTuli

danaSauli Caidina maSin, rodesac

premier-ministris, ministrebisa

da sxva Tanamdebobis pirTa dana-

SaulSi uSualod CarTulobiTa da

TanamonawileobiT, aafeTqa da miwasTan

gaaswora saydrisi-yaCaRianis

oqros sabado. borcvi, romlis

siRrmeSic, mecnierTa mtkicebiT,

mdebareobda uZvelesi _ Zveli

welTaRricxvis meoTxe aTaswleulis

_ oqros maRaro. kulturuli

memkvidreobis Zeglis ase

yaCaRurad ganadgurebis Sedegad

gamoZiebam unda daadgnos, ramdeni

milioni dolari moipova ivaniSvilma

da ra dakarga sazogadoebam

da qarTvelma xalxma, ramdeni

milionis moraluri, materialuri

da kulturuli ziani miiRo. yovelive

es fulad TanxaSi daangariSebuli

amoRebul unda iqnes

misgan biujetis sasargeblod.

„kanonieri qurdis” ZiriTadi

funqcia, „saqmeebis garCeva”, kargad

moirgo da miuxedavad imisa,

rom sasamarTlo mTlianad daqvemdebarebuli

aqvs, TviTon uSualod

awarmoebs biznesmenebs Soris

davebis ganxilvas. misi gadawyvetileba

ufro swrafad aRsruldeba,

vidre romelime sasamarTlosi,

ase magaliTad, xazaraZesa da CxartiSvils

yovelgvari kanonmdeblobis

wesis gverdis avliT, gaurCia

saqme da xazaraZes saCivris sasamarTlodan

gamotana mosTxova,

rac dauyovnebliv aRsrulda.

„kanonieri qurdis” TanaSemweebi

misive davalebiT awarmoebdnen

saqmeTa garCevebs da biznesmenebze

fulis gamoZalvas. am saqmes emsaxureboda

„farcxalaZis sardafi”;

„omegasa” da sxva biznesjgufebs

aseTi wesiT urCevdnen saqmeebs da

aiZulebdnen damorCilebodnen maT

ukanono gadawyvetilebas.

los rkinigzas _ organizacias,

romelsac „kanonieri qurdis” mier

Zalauflebis xelSi aRebamde aseulobiT

milioni Sehqonda biujet-

Si, axla ki gakotrebis pirasaa.

miliarderi „kanonieri qurdisgan”

xalxi moeloda am miliardebis

nawilis xalxze moxmarebas, magram

„kanonierma qurdma” sapirispiro

gza aarCia, gza xalxis kuTvnili

aqtivebisa Tu qonebis miTvisebisa,

kidev ufro gamdidrebis

mizniT. am kuTxiT gamoZiebisTvis

saintereso iqneba „gazpromTan”

dadebuli xelSekrulebebi, im

„gazpomTan”, romlis mewilec Tvi-

Ton aris. amazrzeni da danaSaulebrivi

iyo „kanonieri qurdis”

survili marixuanasTan dakavSirebiT.

qarTveli xalxisa da eklesiis

winaaRmdegobis gawevis Semdeg,

„kanonierma qurdma” ukan daixia da

ver SeZlo marixuanis plantaciebis

gaSenebis kanonmdeblobis

SemoReba, Tumca did imeds amyarebda

rom am gziT uzarmazar Semosavals

miiRebda.

saqarTvelos biujets unda

daubrundes da aunazRaurdes is

ziani, rac am „kanonierma qurdma”

Tavisi qmedebebiT qveyanas miayena.

xelisuflebis Secvlis Semdeg es,

savaraudod, asec unda moxdes, magram

„kanonieri qurdi” yvelafers

gaakeTebs, rom ar daTmos nebiT Zalaufleba,

radgan arCevnebiT Zalauflebis

daTmobis SemTxvevaSi

yvelafers dakargavs, misTvis qonebis

dakargva ki sicocxlis dakargvis

tolfasia.

yvelaze cudi is aris, rom am

„kanonierma qurdma”, Tavisi „moRvaweobiT”,

qarTvelebs waarTva imedi

_ imedi xvalindeli dRisa. xalxi

iZulebuli gaxada, imedis dasabruneblad

quCaSi gamosuliyo. me

mjera Cemi xalxis. xalxsac amouva

yelSi! imedis warTmeva xom bolo

wveTia, _ mere yvelam sakuTar Tavs

daabralos. didi fuli ar mgonia,

xelisuflebis mudmivad Senar-

Cunebis garantia iyos.

valeri grigalaSvili

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

35


Tbilisis omidan òcnebis~

14 dekembers, anu SabaTs, „qar-

giorgi abaSiZe

Tuli ocneba” masStabur aqcias

gegmavs. marTalia, mmarTvel

gundSi amtkiceben, rom es aqcia ki ara, Cveulebrivi sazeimo

RonisZiebaa, romelic saqarTvelos evrosabWos Tavmjdomare

qveynad arCevas eZRvneba, magram yvela xvdeba, rom es xelisu-

flebis mxridan „daorganizebuli” morigi kontraqcia iqneba,

romliTac „nacionaluri moZraobisa” da, zogadad, mTeli

opoziciis demonizacia kidev erTxel unda moxdes.

zogadad, es pirveli SemTxveva

ar aris, roca „ocneba” opozicias

aqcias uwyobs da mis gadadgomas(!)

iTxovs.

am mxriv saqarTvelo mTel dedamiwaze,

marTlac, gamorCeuli da

unikaluri qveyanaa. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

msoflio politikas jer ar

gaugia da ar axsovs, rom xelisufleba

aqciebs opozicias uwyobdes,

magram xom iciT, „am qalaqSi

yvelaferi mosula”. hoda, „mosula”

isic, rom politikuri Zala,

romelic yvela saxelmwifo berkets

flobs da, Sesabamisad, yvelafer

kargsa Tu cudze, rac qveyanaSi

xdeba, Tavad aris pasuxismgebeli,

am pasuxismgeblobis Tavidan

aridebas cdilobs da mosaxleobas

arwmunebs, ai, cudad rom cxovrob,

Cemi ki ara, „nacebis” bralia, im „nacebis”,

romlebmac xelisufleba 7

wlis win, mSvidobianad, e. i.,

arCevnebis gziT gadmogvceso.

rac Seexeba 14 dekembris aqcias,

arsebuli informaciiT, am „qocTa

varamis” organizatori „ocnebis”

axalgazrduli frTaa.

„14 dekembers TbilisSi Camovlen

partiis mxardamWerebi regionebidanac

da maTi transportireba

dafinansdeba”, _ ganacxada

sagangebo brifingze „ocnebis” axalgazrduli

organizaciis liderma,

giorgi CakvetaZem, romelic,

amave dros, Tbilisis sakrebulos

wevricaa.

brifingzeve Jurnalistebi dainteresdnen,

_ Tuki 14 dekembers

aqcias opoziciac gamarTavs,

„meocnebe” axalgazrdebi mas Tavs

daesxmebian Tu ara?

„ara, _ Tqva brifingze Cakveta-

Zem da dasZina, _ Tu isini daapireben

CvenTan dapirispirebas,

policia Sesabamisad imoqmedebs. es

aris rusuli interesebis kontraqcia,

romlis warmomadgenlebic

arian „Secvale” da „nacionaluri

moZraoba”.

mokled, xelisufleba, romelic

wlebia, Tavadaa prorusuloba-

Si eWvmitanili, ruseTumes opozicias

eZaxis. zogadad, qarTvelebs

iarliyebis mikereba gviyvars da

ase iyo Tundac gasuli saukunis

90-ian wlebSi, roca xelisufleba-

Si mosulma erovnulma moZraobam

lamis mTeli saqarTvelo „kremlis

agentad” gamoacxada.

„rac ar unda dairqvan maT, gind

demokratiuli opozicia, gind angelozebis

frTebgamobmuli opozicia,

yvelam icis, rom isini mkvlelebi,

moRalateebi da gamyidvelebi

arian...” _ ambobda maSindeli

prezidenti zviad gamsaxurdia

imdroindel opoziciaze.

Tengiz kitovani ki zviad gamsaxurdias

ase emuqreboda:

„gadaeciT, rom me iaraRs ar

davyri. dedas vutireb me magas,

icodeT. bolomde vibrZoleb, sanam

me cocxali var da erTi gvardieli

mainc iqneba, sisxls amo-

vuReb”.

ise, CvenTvis rom vTqvaT, rusuli

gavlenebi maSinac da axlac

saqarTveloSi Zlieri iyo da aris.

amitom savsebiT dasaSvebia, rom

kremls sakuTari interesebis

gamtareblebi yvela politikur

frTaSi hyavdes, Tumca am Temaze

sxva dros visaubroT. amjerad ki

paralelebi wlevandel da 25 wlis

winandel, anu 1991 wlis dekembers

Soris gavavloT, miT umetes,

opozicia eWvobs, rom „ocneba”, xelisuflebis

SenarCunebis mizniT,

samoqalaqo dapirispirebis inspirirebas

CaliCobs.

„samoqalaqo dapirispireba” SesaZloa,

xmamaRali naTqvamia, magram

naTlad Cans, rom e. w. kontraqciebis

mizani swored im iluziis Seqmnaa,

rom TiTqos mosaxleoba

orad aris gayofili. arada, sinamdvileSi,

yvelaferi sxvanairadaa

_ TiTo orola „oberqocis”

garda mmarTveli gundis sisuleleebis

„gapravebas” isinic ki aRar

cdiloben, vinc 2011-2012 wlebSi

biZina ivaniSvilisa da, zogadad,

„qarTuli ocnebis” gulmxurvale

mxardamWerebi iyvnen da yvelafers

akeTebdnen imisTvis, rom „nacionalebs”

xelisufleba daetovebinaT.

erTi sityviT, situacia feTqebadsaSiSia.

Sesabamisad, upriani

iqneba, Tundac gansjisTvis, gavixenoT,

ra moxda 1991 wlis dekemberSi,

rac SesaZloa, erTgvari gakveTilic

iyos araTu mxolod saqarTvelos

politikuri vertikalisTvis,

aramed Cveni dasavleli

partniorebisTvisac, romlebmac

25 wlis win wauyrues da kremls

saSualeba misces, saqarTveloSi

samoqalaqo dapirispireba moewyo!

diax, qalbatonebo da batonebo,

eWvi aravis epareba, rom rusTavelis

gamzirze maSin swored kremlis

mecadineobiT gaCnda cecxli

da isic cnobili, ufro sworad,

TiTqmis faqtebiT aris dadasturebuli,

rom ruseTis generaliteti

iaraRiT barikadebis sxvadasxva

mxares mdgar qarTvelebs

amaragebda.

ise, samarTlianobisTvis unda

iTqvas, rom e. w. Tbilisis omisTvis

winapirobebi TiTqmis eqvsi Tvis

ganmavlobaSi iqmneboda. ra iyo es

winapirobebi? _ amis Sesaxeb cota

qvemoT visaubrebT. manamde ki getyviT,

rom Tbilisis omi 15 dRes

grZeldeboda da am ZmaTamkvlel

Setakebebs, oficialuri monacemebiT,

113 adamianis sicocxle Seewira.

rac Seexeba winapirobebs, amis

Sesaxeb qarTul vikipediaSi vkiTxulobT:

„1990 wlis martSi erovnul-ganmaTavisuflebel

moZraobaSi ganxeTqileba

moxda. kerZod, 11-13

marts TbilisSi, filarmoniis did

sakoncerto darbazSi, Catarda

konferencia, romelzec miwveuli

iyo im dros erovnul moZraobaSi

Tbilisis ZmaTamkvleli omis qronika

CarTuli yvela araformaluri

gaerTianeba. konferenciaze gamoikveTa

ori sruliad gansxvavebuli

politikuri pozicia da Camoyalibda

ori ZiriTadi politikuri

aliansi:

1. „mrgvali magida _ Tavisufali

saqarTvelo _ zviad gamsaxurdia”

da misi momxre politikuri

partiebi. am alianss aucileblad

miaCnda sabWoTa kavSiris kanonebiT

arCevnebis Catareba, arCevnebis

mogeba da am gziT mopovebuli

xelisuflebis gamoyeneba saqarTvelos

sabWoTa kavSiris Semadgenlobidan

kanonieri, legitimuri

gasvlisTvis. am gzas maSin „litvis

gzas” uwodebdnen, radgan litvam

1990 wlis 11 marts swored ase daiwyo

ssr kavSiridan gasvla;

2. „erovnul-demokratiuli

partia” (giorgi Wanturia), „erovnuli

damoukideblobis partia”

(irakli wereTeli), „konservatoruli

partia” (Temur JorJoliani)

da „mxedrioni” (jaba ioseliani). es

aliansi arCevnebSi gamarjvebis gziT

damoukideblobis mopovebas

SeuZleblad Tvlida da miaCnda,

rom, pirvel rigSi, aucilebeli

iyo sabWoTa armiis gayvana saqar-

Tvelodan. amisTvis unda arCeuliyo

alternatiuli organo _ erovnuli

kongresi, romelic iqneboda

saqarTvelos mosaxleobis nebis

gamomxatveli erTaderTi organo

da, sabolood, mas unda daesva

saqarTvelos deokupaciisa da

erovnul-saxelmwifoebrivi damoukideblobis

aRdgenis sakiTxi. am

aliansis lozungi iyo _ „jer Tavisufleba,

Semdeg _ damoukidebloba”.

zviad gamsaxurdia gaemijna erovnuli

kongresis arCevis momxreebs

da maT „antierovnuli moZraoba”

uwoda. kongresis momxreebma

1990 wlis 23-26 maiss sportis

sasaxleSi Caatares e. w. erovnuli

yriloba, sadac gadawyda, ar mieRoT

arCevnebSi monawileoba. yrilobam

„mrgvali magida” daadana-

`dedas vutireb me

magas!.. bolomde

vibrZoleb...

sisxls amovuReb~

Saula erovnuli interesebis Ralatsa

da qarTveli eris SecdomaSi

Seyvanis mcdelobaSi.

1990 wlis 28 oqtombers gaimarTa

sakanonmdeblo organos arCevnebi.

es iyo saqarTvelos ssr-is

istoriaSi pirveli mravalpartiuli

arCevnebi. arCevnebSi 14 politikuri

partia monawileobda. mandatebis

umravlesoba _ 250-dan 124

mandati _ moipova „mrgvalma magidam”.

manamde, 30 seqtembers, Sedga

„erovnuli kongresis” arCevnebi,

romelSic gamarjveba moipova

„erovnuli damoukideblobis partiam”.

kongresis arCevnebSi sul

ramdenime aTeulma aTasma adamianma

miiRo monawileoba.

saqarTvelos respublikis uzenaesi

sabWos pirvel sesiaze, romelic

1990 wlis 14 noembers Catarda,

zviad gamsaxurdia airCies uzenaesi

sabWos Tavmjdomared. am movaleobas

is 1991 wlis martamde

asrulebda. aRniSnuli sesiis gadawyvetilebiT,

qveyanas ewoda „saqarTvelos

respublika”; amave sesiaze

aRadgines saqarTvelos demokratiuli

respublikis saxelmwifo

atributika _ droSa, gerbi

da himni. amasTan, damoukideblobis

aRdgenamde gamocxadda gardamavali

periodi.

1990 wlis 20 dekembers, saqarTvelos

uzenaesi sabWos gadawyvetilebiT,

Seiqmna Sinagan saqmeTa saministros

Sinagani jarebi, saqarTvelos

erovnuli gvardia. erovnuli

gvardia arsebobis sawyis

etapze saqarTvelos SeiaraRebuli

Zalebis ZiriTad birTvs warmoadgenda.

gvardiis sardlis Tanamdebobaze

dainiSna Tengiz kitovani.

1991 wlis TebervalSi xelisuflebam

daiwyo ukanasknel period-

Si Camoyalibebuli ukanonod SeiaraRebuli

dajgufebebis ganiaraReba,

rasac, zog SemTxvevaSi, Tan

axlda SeiaraRebuli dapirispireba.

operaciebis dawyebis win Sinagan

saqmeTa saministrom sajarod

gaakeTa gancxadeba, rom vinc nebayoflobiT

Caabarebda iaraRs da

datovebda ukanono SeiaraRebuli

formirebis rigebs, mis mimarT ar

36

36 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


kontraqciebis klounadamde

iqneboda aRZruli sisxlis samarTlis

saqme. 16 Tebervals qalaq

samtrediaSi cecxli gauxsnes prefeqturis

Senobas da daWres ori

mSvidobiani moqalaqe. miliciam am

TavdasxmaSi monawileobis braldebiT

daakava „mxedrionisa” da „erovnul-demokratiuli

partiis”

ramdenime wevri. 20 Tebervals,

„mxedrionis” kaxeTis sadroSos

wevrebma, gela goderZiSvilis xelmZRvanelobiT,

srola autexes

avtomanqanas, romelSic isxdnen

saqarTvelos Ss saministrosa da

sagarejos Sinagan saqmeTa ganyofilebis

TanamSromlebi, razedac

maT sroliTve upasuxes. ormxrivi

srolis Sedegad daiWrnen rogorc

miliciis, aseve „mxedrionis” wevrebi.

amasobaSi, daakaves jaba ioseliani

da „mxedrionis” sxva liderebi.

1991 wlis 31 marts Catarda

referendumi saqarTvelos

damoukideblobis aRdgenis Taobaze.

kiTxvaze: „Tanaxma xarT Tu ara,

aRdges saqarTvelos saxelmwifoebrivi

damoukidebloba 1918 wlis

26 maisis damoukideblobis aqtis

safuZvelze?” _ mosaxleobis 97%-

ma dadebiTi pasuxi gasca. referendumis

Sedegebis safuZvelze 9

aprils uzenaesma sabWom miiRo

saqarTvelos saxelmwifoebrivi

damoukideblobis aRdgenis aqti.

26 maiss, sayovelTao-saxalxo

saprezidento arCevnebSi, xmebis

absoluturi umravlesobiT, gaimarjva

zviad gamsaxurdiam.

axlad arCeul prezidents

opoziciaSi Caudga erovnuli kongresi,

romelmac moaxerxa Tavis

mxares gadaebirebina mosaxleobis

is nawili, romelic ukmayofilo

iyo axali xelisuflebis mier ar-

Ceuli politikuri da ekonomikuri

kursiT.

politikuri krizisis fonze,

viTareba daZabuli iyo sabWoTa

kavSirSic. kerZod, 1991 wlis 19

agvistos moskovSi moewyo putCi,

romlis drosac Zalaufleba xel-

Si Caigdo sagangebo situaciaTa

saxelmwifo komitetma. masSi Sediodnen

wiTeli armiis generlebi,

suk-isa da centraluri komitetis

wevrebi. imave dRes TbilisSi zviad

gamsaxurdiasTan Sesaxvedrad

Camovidnen sabWoTa kavSiris Tavdacvis

ministris moadgile da amierkavkasiis

samxedro olqis sardali.

maT gamsaxurdias erovnuli

gvardiis daSla mosTxoves sagangebo

situaciaTa komitetis #1 dadgenilebis

safuZvelze, romelic

iTvaliswinebda „xelisuflebisa

da mmarTvelobis struqturebis,

gasamxedroebuli formirebebis

dauyovnebliv daSlas, romelTa

qmedebac ewinaaRmdegeba ssr kav-

Siris konstitucias da kanonebs”,

winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, sadamsjelo

RonisZiebebis gatarebiT daimuqrnen.

zviad gamsaxurdiam gadawyvita,

kompromisze wasuliyo, Tumca

gvardia ar dauSlia. molaparakebebidan

ramdenime saaTSi gamovida

prezidentis brZanebuleba erovnuli

gvardiis reorganizaciis

Sesaxeb, romlis mixedviTac, erovnuli

gvardia gaxda miliciis specialuri

daniSnulebis qvedanayofi,

gvardiis sardlis Tanamdeboba

gauqmda da misi funqciebi Ss ministris

pirvel moadgiles daek-

`gansjisTvis, gavixenoT, ra moxda 1991 wlis dekemberSi, rac SesaZloa,

erTgvari gakveTilic iyos araTu mxolod saqarTvelos politikuri

vertikalisTvis, aramed Cveni dasavleli partniorebisTvisac, romlebmac 25

wlis win wauyrues da kremls saSualeba misces, saqarTveloSi samoqalaqo

dapirispireba moewyo! diax, qalbatonebo da batonebo, eWvi aravis epareba,

rom rusTavelis gamzirze maSin swored kremlis mecadineobiT gaCnda

cecxli da isic cnobili, ufro sworad, TiTqmis faqtebiT aris

dadasturebuli, rom ruseTis generaliteti iaraRiT barikadebis sxvadasxva

mxares mdgar qarTvelebs amaragebda~

isra. aRniSnul gadawyvetilebas

moyva Tengiz kitovanisa da gvardiis

garkveuli nawilis ukmayofileba.

20 agvistos kitovanma

400 gvardieli Sekriba da, maTTan

erTad, rkonis xeobaSi dabanakda.

amasTan, kitovanma prezidenti putCistebTan

garigebaSi daadanaSaula

da daumorCilebloba gamoucxada.

prezidentis winaaRmdeg gaaqtiurda

opoziciac. TbilisSi,

mTavrobis saxlis dasacavad, mxolod

gamsaxurdias erTguli 100

gvardieli darCa. kitovans aseve

ar daemorCila erovnuli gvardiis

zugdidis batalioni, romelsac

loTi qobalia meTaurobda.

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

`xelisufleba kontraqciebs ki ar unda

awyobdes, realobas Tvals unda usworebdes. es

realoba ki, yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT,

isaa, rom gasuli wlis saprezidento arCevnebze

òcnebisgan~ mxardaWeril salome zurabiSvils

900 aTasamde amomrCevelma uari uTxra~

1991 wlis 2 seqtembers specialuri

daniSnulebis razmebma iaraRis

gamoyenebiT daarbies „erovnul-demokratiuli

partiis” sainformacio

mitingi rusTavelis

ZeglTan. TbilisSi, praqtikulad,

permanentuli politikuri krizisi

ganviTarda. erovnuli damoukideblobis

partiam yofili „imelis”

SenobasTan SimSiloba daiwyo,

10 seqtembers barikadebi aRimar-

Ta rusTavelis prospeqtze, amasTan,

imarTeboda sainformacio mitingebi

saqteleradiodepartamentis

Senobasa da edp-is Stab-binas-

Tan. Tbilisis zRvis midamoebSi

ganlagda erovnuli gvardiis daumorCilebeli

nawili. 4-5 seqtembers

xelisuflebam ZaliT gawminda

rusTavelis prospeqti, ris

Sedegadac daiWra ramdenime kaci.

samTavrobo jarebsa da opoziciis

mxardamWer SeiaraRebul formirebebs

Soris Setakebebs 4 oqtombers

ramdenime adamianis daSaveba

moyva. daakaves edp-is lideri

gia Wanturia da sxvebi.

opozicia moiTxovda prezidentis

gadadgomas da vadamdeli

arCevnebis daniSvnas. daZabulobam

dedaqalaqSi kulminacias miaRwia.

21 dekembers TbilisSi Semovidnen

erovnuli gvardiis daumor-

Cilebeli nawili da „mxedrionis”

wevrebi, moxda sisxliani Setakeba.

Tbilisis centri saomari moqmedebis

asparezad gadaiqca”.

Tbilisis, anu samoqalaqo omi

imiT damTavrda, rom 1992 wlis 6

ianvars zviad gamsaxuridam da misma

garemocvam saqarTvelo datoves.

marTalia, Cvens dedaqalaqSi

srolebi Sewyda, magram amiT dapirispireba

ar dasrulebula, anu

zviad gamsaxurdias momxreebi permanentul

mitingebs awyobdnen, rasac

samxedro sabWo Zalis gamoyenebiT

Slida. Sesabamisad, omis

damTavrebis Semdegac araerTi

adamiani gardaicvala da daSavda.

ra viswavleT Tbilisis ZmaTamkvleli

omidan? _ Tu axlandel

viTarebas gavaanalizebT, mivxvdebiT,

rom bevri araferi gviswavlia.

yovel SemTxvevaSi, garkveuli

Zalebi axlac, rogorc maSin, cdiloben,

rom sazogadoeba or nawilad

gaiyos da amis TvalnaTeli

magaliTia Tundac „ocnebis” mier

daorganizebuli e. w. kontraqciebi.

arada, xelisufleba kontraqciebs

ki ar unda awyobdes,

realobas Tvals unda usworebdes.

es realoba ki, yvelafers Tavi rom

davaneboT, isaa, rom gasuli wlis

saprezidento arCevnebze „ocnebi-

sgan” mxardaWeril salome zurabiSvils

900 aTasamde amomrCevelma

uari uTxra. amomrCevlis es raodenoba,

cxadia, cota ar aris da ai,

am mocemulobaSi „ocneba” kontraqciebs

marTavs, rac Cveulebrivi

klounadaa da meti araferi!

„Tbilisis oms meti mayurebeli

hyavda, vidre _ monawile. sxva niSnebiTac

es iyo ucnauri da gansxvavebuli

omi. maxsovs, cnobismoyvareebs

Soris videqi rusTavelis

Teatris win, roca veris mxridan

Sveulmfreni gamoCnda, romelzec

veeberTela avzi iyo Camokidebuli.

avzi imxela iyo, rom xalxma

maSinve raRac sisuleleebze daiwyo

laparaki. viRacam Tqva, albaT,

verelebis „vertaliotiao”. viRac

iqve SeekamaTa kidec, verelebisa

ki ara, Cemi axlobeli vakelebis

aris da „rulTan” buba kikabiZe

ziso. Sveulmfrenis Sturvals vin

marTavda, ver vxedavdiT, magram

naTeli iyo, rom kargi araferi

xdeboda (is avzi parlamentsa da

pirveli skolis Sua Camoagdes.

kidev kargi, rom ar afeTqda, radgan,

rogorc mere gavigeT, sawvaviT

iyo savse da parlamentis

afeTqebas apirebdnen, Tumca msxverpli

uamisodac didi iyo, rac

mTavaria, omi orive mxares wagebuli

hqonda, radgan Sens omSi yovelTvis

Sen ageb da ara sxva, saku-

Tar qveyanas oms verasdros

mougeb”, _ ityvis Tbilisis omis

Semdeg mwerali daTo turaSvili.

zviad gamsaxurdia ki jer kidev

maSin, sanam rusTavelze pirveli

tyvia gavardeboda, anu 1991 wlis

8 oqtombers, praqtikulad, momavals

iwinaswarmetyvelebs da ganacxadebs:

„me dagixatavT Cemi postidan

wasvlis Semdgom Tbiliss:

Tbilisi gadaiqceva ramdenime ubnad

danawevrebul qalaqad, sadac

iqneba TiTo SeiaraRebuli xelisufleba,

SeiaraRebuli bandebi da

maTi xelmZRvanelebi. maT Soris

iqneba mudmivi brZola Zalauflebisa

da zegavlenisTvis. iqneba

mosaxleobis arnaxuli Zarcva,

arnaxuli darbeva, moiSleba yvelaferi

eleqtroenergia, gazi, komunikaciebi...

saqarTvelo gaxdeba

msxverpli totaluri anarqiisa da,

saerTod, saqarTvelos arseboba

dadgeba kiTxvis niSnis qveS”.

marTalia, mas Semdeg, rac zviad

gamsaxurdiam es sityvebi Tqva,

28 weli gavida, magram saqarTvelo

isev iqaa darCenili, sadac maSin

iyo, anu am etapze Suqic gvaqvs,

gazic da quCebSi, jerjerobiT, SeiaraRebuli

bandformirebebi ar

daZrwian, magram politikuri vertikali

erTmaneTs isev ZalauflebisTvis

ebrZvis, mmarTveli gundi

ki yvelafers akeTebs, rom Zalaufleba

SeinarCunos da amisTvis,

Tu dasWirda, uars arc kontraqciebis

mowyobaze ambobs.

sxvaTa Soris, xma dadis, rom

„ocnebis” kontraqciebSi umetesad

nasvami adamianebi arian CarTuli.

alkoholuri TrobiT gabruebul

adamians ki TavSi ra mouva, aravin

icis, anu cnobilia, rom egzaltirebuli

masis gakontroleba

SeuZlebelia. amitom sifrTxilea

saWiro, sifrTxile, Torem es qveyana

kidev erT „saomar viTarebas”

veRar gadaitans da yvelafer amaze

istoriisa da STamomavlobis

winaSe, bunebrivia, „ocnebas” daekisreba

pasuxi!

37


figuruli ciguraobis gran-pris

finalSi maria kazakovasa da giorgi

revias qarTulma wyvilma favoritebs

ajoba da sportul cekvebSi

saqarTvelos istoriuli

gamarjveba moutana.

italiis qalaq turinSi gamarTul

finalur asparezobaze maria

kazakovam da giorgi reviam saval-

qarTvelebma yinulze aSS-sa da ruseTs ajobes

Toko _

debulo da Tavisufal programebSi

msajebisgan maRali Sefasebebi

miiRes da jamuri 174, 90 quliT,

saqarTvelos figuruli ciguraobis

istoriaSi pirvelad, iunior-

Ta gran-pris finali moiges.

„vicodiT, rom araferi gvqonda

dasakargi, araferi gvaSinebda.

xalxi Cvens sanaxavad movida da

unda gveCvenebina yvelaferi, razec

vmuSaobdiT. ra Tqma unda, emociebSi

varT da imis gaazrebac ki

gviWirs, rom movigeT. win evropis

Cempionatia, romelic gacilebiT

rTuli iqneba, radgan iq asakobrivi

SezRudva ar aris”, _ istoriuli

gamarjvebis Semdeg Tqva giorgi

reviam. ciguraobis saerTaSoriso

kavSiris egidiT organizebul

gran-pris seriebi 7 etapad gaimarTa

safrangeTSi, aSS-Si, latvia-

Si, ruseTSi, poloneTSi, xorvatiasa

da italiaSi. etapebis monacemebis

gaTvaliswinebiT saukeTeso

Sedegebis mqone oTxi qveynis eqvsma

yvelaze maRalreitingulma wyvilma

gran-pris finaluri sagzuri

moipova, romelic Tavisi mniSvnelobiT

msoflio Cempionatis tolfasi

saerTaSoriso turniria. zedized

meored, gran-pris finaluri

sagzurs mflobeli swored

maria kazakovasa da giorgi revias

qarTveli wyvili gaxda. meore da

mesame adgilebi aSS-isa da ruseTis

warmomadgenlebma daikaves.

moigo da wavida...

ase ufro lamazia

baskoniis

imedi

evroligis regularuli gaTamaSebis morig turSi „baskonia” „efe-

sis” dapirispirebis yurebisas, gonebaSi usaTuod es Zveli qarTuli

andaza amotivtivdeboda. espaneTis Cempionatsa Tu saerTaSoriso

arenaze bevri matCi gvinaxavs, rodesac Tornike Sengelias parketze

ufrenia da esa Tu is metoqe, SeiZleba iTqvas, martos daumarcxebia,

magram koka yovelTvis wyals xom ver moitans. ase moxda Turqul

„efesTan” matCis dros, romelSic „baskonia” Sinaur kedlebSi 77:102

ganadgurda. saqarTvelos nakrebis 28 wlis kalaTburTeli da vito-

rielTa kapitani, ra Tqma unda, sastarto xuTeulSi iyo da bevric

iSroma, magram misi garja sakmarisi ar aRmoCnda. Tokos 20 qulis

miuxedavad misi gundi mowodebis simaRleze ver idga.

„baskonias” 12 turis Semdeg 5

mogeba da 7 marcxi aqvs da saturniro

cxrilSi mecxre-meaTe adgilebs

iyofs. win kidev aris matCebi

da espanur klubs saukeTeso 8

gundSi anu flei ofSi moxvedris

Sansi isev aqvs. momdevno turSi

„baskonia” 12 dekembers swored uSualo

konkurent „crvena zvezdas”

endi mari

kompiuterSi

38

msoflios yofilma pirvelma

Coganma endi mareim fexburTze

isaubra.

rogorc aRmoCnda, CogburTelis

babua wlebis manZilze Sotlandiuri

„hibernianis” Rirsebas

icavda, xolo misi ojaxi edinburg-

Si xSirad eswreboda „ister

roudze” gamarTul Sexvedrebs.

„bavSvobaSi „hibernianis” matCebze

xSirad davdiodi _ am gunds

mTeli ojaxiT vgulSematkivrobdiT.

samwuxarod, rodesac mSobliuri

qalaqi davtove, TamaSebs Tvalyurs

veRar vadevnebdi, radgan

Sotlandiis Cempionati yvelgan ar

translirdeba. samagierod, inglisis

premierligas vuyureb _ „arsenals”

aqtiurad vakvirdebi. unda

vaRiaro, rom fexburTze vgiJdebi”.

belgradSi daupirispirdeba.

espaneTis Cempionatis me-12 turSi

ki Tornike Sengelias „baskoniam”

Sin minimaluri sxvaobiT SeZlo

badalonas „xuventudis” damarcxeba

_ 87:86. maspinZelTa Soris

yvelaze Sedegiani, cxadia, Tornike

Sengelia iyo. man moedanze 31

wuTi dahyo da gunds 19 qula SesZina.

amasTan erTad, mis angariSze

rva moxsna da erTi Sedegiani gadacemaa.

saqarTvelos nakrebis

naturalizebulma gamTamaSebelma,

met jeningma ki „baskonias” 16 qula

moutana.

baskur gunds 12 TamaSidan eqvsi

mogebis Semdeg 12 qula daugrovda

da me-9 adgilzea.

„bavSvobaSi, xangrZlivi mgzavrobis

dros, garTobis mizniT, kompiuterul

fexburTs xSirad vTamaSobdi.

mogvianebiT, aman problema

gamoiwvia _ am TamaSs gvianobamde

ver vwydebodi. ramdenime welia,

rac mas Tavi davanebe. espaneTSi

yofnis dros me da Cems megobars

2-2 gundi gvyavda da Cven Ramis 3

saaTamde vTamaSobdiT. 8-ze varji-

Si gvewyeboda, amitom SeveSviT.

didi siamovnebiT vcdidi beds sportis

sxva saxeobaSic. fexburTi

yovelTvis mainteresebda _ klubis

menejerobaze namdvilad ar vityodi

uars. bevris azriT, mwvrTneloba

martivia, Tumca, realurad,

am sferoSi urTulesia warmatebis

miRweva”, _ ganacxada britanelma

CogburTelma.

„saburTalom” pirvelad moi-

go saqarTvelos Tasi. giorgi

WiabriSvilis gundi SarSan Cempioni

gaxda, axla ki Tasic daama-

ta…

„saburTalom” Tasi gorSi aR-

marTa… gorSive gundi datova

mwvrTnelma gia WiabriSvilma,

vinc Segirdebs SarSan saqarTve-

los Cempionobac moagebina.

„saburTalo” Tavidanve dawin-

aurda. naxevari saaTis Semdeg gu-

ndi 2:0 igebda. jer giorgi koxreiZem

idealuri sizustiT Sea-

srula sajarimo, mere ki giorgi

gabedava darCa mekaresTan pir-

ispir da dabalze dartymiT

Seagdo.

„lokomotivma” Sesvenebis Sem-

deg maleve gaaTanabra. penalti

da irakli sixaruliZis zusti

dartyma 2:1. maleve iyo is momenti,

roca injgia pirispir gavi-

da, magram…

golis Semdeg cxadia, upiratesoba

„lokomotivisken” gadavi-

da, Tumca am talRam gadaiara,

radgan „saburTalos” Setevebi

Secvlaze Sesulebma gaaZlieres:

levan yeniam da laSa koxreiZem.

ramdenime saxifaTo Setevis Semdeg

mesame goli kuTxurs miayoles

levan kakubavam Tavuri ix-

eira.

giorgi WibriSvilma ki namat-

Cevs Tqva, CemTvis bolo TamaSi

iyoo. „am etapze vici, rom Sem-

deg wels gundSi aRar vimuSaveb.

aq eqvsi wlis ganmavlobaSi gun-

dTan erTad didi gza gaviare,

movipoveT Tasi da Cempionoba da

„saburTalo” pirnaTelma dav-

tove, aq ki aRar davrCebi. droa,

wavide saxlSi da davisveno”, _

ganacxada man.

saTqmelia, rom giorgi Wiab-

riSvili saburTalomde, 2012

wels, „zestafonis” mwvrTneli

gaxldaT da gundi iqac Cempion-

obamde miiyvana.

gamarjvebuli wasvla yove-

lTvis ufro lamazia...

38 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.


ragbi pirvel

Tebervals iwyeba

msofliom ruseTi

sportidan Caxsna

akrZaluli preparatebis miRebasa

da sxva mamaZaRlobaSi mxilebis

gamo rusi aTletebis dasja jer

kidev rios 2016 wlis zafxulis

olimpiadidan daiwyo, sadac Cveni

Crdiloeli mezoblebi Zalosnobasa

da kidev ramdenime saxeobidan

mokveTes. Semdeg iyo pionCangis

zamTris olimpiada, rodesac

168 rusi aTleti gaxsnis ceremonialis

aRlumze neitraluri qveynis

statusiT gamovida, xolo dajildoebisas

arc ruseTis droSa

Canda da himnic ar gaJRerebula.

Zalian cudad gausamdaT. 9 dekembers

lozanaSi gamarTul msoflios

anti-sadopingo saagentos

aRmaskomma ruseTs, sportis yvela

saxeobaSi 4 wlis vadiT saerTa-

Soriso turnirebis maspinZloba

da maTSi monawileoba aukrZala.

verdiqti, ra Tqma unda, vrceldeba

evropisa da msoflio Cempionatebze

da TavisTavad olimpiur

TamaSebze, Tumca gamonaklisi mxolod

„sufTa” sportsmenebze daiSveba,

magram isini sakuTari qveynis

saxeliT ver iasparezeben. garda

amisa, ruseTis antidopingur

saagentos msoflio antidopinguri

kodeqsis Sesabamisobis statusic

CamoerTva.

amrigad, moaxloebul tokios

olimpiur TamaSebze, aseve 2022

wlis pekinis TeTr olimpiadaze,

ruseTis droSa ver ifrialebs da

TavisTavad arc himni gaismeba. ase

iqneba yatarSi gasamarT safexbur-

To mondialze, Tuki ruseTis nakrebi

sakvalifikacio etaps daZlevs.

miuxedavad amisa, yvelaferi

Zveleburad darCeba evro 2020-ze,

radgan evropuli fexburTis mmarTvel

organos uefas, msoflio

antidopinguri saagentos gadawyvetilebebi

ar exeba. Sesabamisad,

sankt-peterburgic im 8 maspinZel

qalaqs Soris darCeba, romelic

gaisad evropis Cempionats umaspin-

Zlebs da ruseTis nakrebic turnirSi

Cveulebrivad iTamaSebs.

saqarTvelos moragbeTa erovnuli nakrebi „ragbi evropis” Cempionatis

gaTamaSebaSi Tebervlidan CaerTveba. pirvel matCs borjRalosnebi

1-l Tebervals TbilisSi gamarTaven da metoqe trad-

iciuli konkurenti rumineTis nakrebi iqneba, romelsac ukve axali

mwvrTneli hyavs _ ingliseli endi robinsoni. mas inglisisa da

Sotlandiis nakrebebis Tavkacobis gamocdileba aqvs.

meore matCi 9 Tebervals gaimarTeba da Cveni nakrebi stumrad

espaneTs daupirispirdeba, romelsac ambiciebi uxvad moZalebia.

22 Tebervals ki isev Sin viTamaSebT da belgiis erovnul gunds

davupirispirdebiT, romelic, savaraudod, am turniris autsaid-

eri iqneba.

bolo ori Sexvedra martSi gaimarTeba. 7 marts portugaliis nakrebs,

romelic ragbi evropis Cempionats wleuls daubrunda, pariz-

Si, „stad franses” stadionze veTamaSebiT.

bolo turSi ki, 14 marts, isev TbilisSi viTamaSebT. metoqe ruse-

Tis nakrebi iqneba, romelic Cveni gundis damarcxebas yovel weli-

wads iqadnis da aqedan araferi gamosdis.

aRsaniSnavia, rom ragbi evropis Cempionatis momdevno ori sezo-

ni (2021-2022 wlebi) 2023 wlis msoflios Tasis SesarCevi turniria.

finaluri etapi safrangeTSi gaimarTeba.

vozniacki

melburnidan

xels dagviqnevs

federeri rkinaze

„rojer federeri kortsa da mis miRma yvelaze

cnobili Sveicarieli pirovnebaa. uamrav saCogbur-

To rekordTan erTad, romelTa Sorisac yvelaze

gamosarCevi udavod didi slemebis 20-gzis Cempionobaa,

is SesaniSnavi pirovneba da qvelmoqmedia. is

Cveni qveynis gansakuTrebuli elCia, sayovelTao

siyvaruls imsaxurebs da msoflioSi warmatebisa da

miwieri Tavmdablobis gansxeulebaa”, es Sveicariis

mTavrobis oficialuri gancxadebaa.

diad rojers msoflio masStabiT aRmerTeben da

mas milionobiT qomagi hyavs. amitomac ra gasakviria,

Tu samSobloSi uyvarT da afaseben, magram samTavrobo

maRalCinosnebis es sityvebi marTlac rom

unikalur ambavs exeba. rojer federeri, Sveicariis

N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

saxelmwifos arsebobis istoriaSi, pirveli adamiani

iqneba, romelsac sicocxleSive miageben msgavs pativs

da mis gamosaxulebas 20 frankis Rirebulebis

vercxlis monetaze daitanen.

„sityvebi ar myofnis. es daujerebeli ambavia. madlobeli

var Cemi qveynisa da monetebis saxlis.

udides pativTan erTad, did pasuxismgeblobasac

vgrZnob”, ambobs rojer federeri.

maestros gamosaxuleba Sveicariuli frankis monetebze

2020 wlis 23 ianvridan gamoCndeba, mogvianebiT,

maisSi ki, igegmeba, federeri 50-frankian

monetebzec daitanon. ra Tqma unda, monetebi gaiyideba

kidec da misi Rirebuleba 30 amerikul dolars

gautoldeba.

Tavisi SesaniSnavi karieris manZilze

is 71 kviris manZilze msoflios

pirveli Cogani iyo da

WTA-s 30 titulic moixveWa. Sar-

Sanwin qalTa Soris Semajamebeli

turniris Cempioni gaxda, xolo

erTi wlis Semdeg didi slemis

jildo pirvelad da Cans, bolojer

moipova.

karolin vozniacki didi CogburTidan

midis. daniel lamazmans

rom msoflio masStabiT uamravi

qomagi da Tayvanismcemeli

hyavda, Tqma ar unda. gasakviri ar

iqneba, Tu misi saTamaSo stili

gulSematkivrebSi did aRfrTovanebas

ar iwvevda, radgan upiratesobas

dacvidan TamaSs amjobinebda,

magram kortze yovelTvis

anaTebda.

„CogburTma yvelaferi momca.

ufro sworad, Cven orivem miveciT

erTmaneTs yvelaferi. miva-

Rwie imas, razec bavSvobaSi, rodesac

am araCveulebriv sportis

saxeobaSi pirvel nabijebs vdgamdi,

SeiZleboda meocneba. es 15

weli Cems cxovrebaSi dauviwyari

da SesaniSnavi periodi iyo. wasvlis

dro movida. miWirs am sityvebis

Tqma, magram realobas

ver gaveqceviT. 2020 wlis ianvar-

Si Cemi saCogburTo kariera dasruldeba.

msurs, es melburnSi,

avstraliis Ria pirvelobaze moxdes”,

_ mimarTa danielma CogburTelma

sazogadoebas.

karolin vozniacki jer mxolod

29 wlis gaxlavT da TiTqos

ramdenime weli CogburTidan wasvlaze

ar unda efiqra, miT ufro,

rom wleuls is arc travmebs Seuwuxebia

da met-naklebad warmatebuli

sezonic hqonda.

avstraliis Ria pirveloba melburnSi,

20 ianvridan 2 Tebervlamde

gaimarTeba da simboluri

da alali iqneba, Tu karolin

vozniacki did CogburTs saCempiono

TasiT xelSi daemSvidobeba.

39

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

afiSa

Sindisi

kavea siTi moli

22:00

amirani

19:15

Smeqsi

kavea Tbilisi moli

21:45

kavea siTi moli

15:00

kavea isT foinTi

14:30

jokeri

kavea galeria

15:30; 19:30

kavea Tbilisi moli

22:10

kavea siTi moli

14:30; 17:00; 22:15

kavea isT foinTi

16:45; 22:30

gaqceva junglebidan

kavea siTi moli

14:15

malefisenti

amirani

14:45

kavea galeria

13:45; 16:30

kavea Tbilisi moli

14:20

kavea siTi moli

14:30; 17:00

kavea isT foinTi

14:30; 17:15


yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi

erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba

saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze

yovelkvireuli

gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari

pirveli gverdi:

1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;

meore-mesame gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;

Sida gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;

bolos wina gverdi:

1sm 2 _2 lari;

bolo gverdi:

1sm 2 _ 3 lari,

maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;

mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _

1000 sm 2;

reklama CanarTis saxiT:

A3 3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;

A4 4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;

mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)

afiSa

terminatori 6

kavea Tbilisi moli

14:15

kavea siTi moli

18:45

kavea isT foinTi

15:00

zoopolusi

amirani

13:45

kavea galeria

14:45

kavea Tbilisi moli

14:30

kavea siTi moli

15:00

kavea isT foinTi

14:45

Carlis angelozebi

amirani

17:00

kavea galeria

22:15

kavea Tbilisi moli

19:30

kavea siTi moli

17:00; 19:30

kavea isT foinTi

14:00; 22:15

1 aSS dolari

2.9446

1 evro

3.2606

1 girvanqa sterlingi

3.8789

1 Sveicaruli franki

2.9749

100 rusuli rubli

4.6146

amindi

samSabaTi

oTxSabaTi

xuTSabaTi

paraskevi

SabaTi

kvira

orSabaTi

Tbilisi

7-9 0

8-10 0

6-8 0

5-7 0

6-7 0

8-10 0

7-9 0

quTaisi

13-15 0

12-14 0

14-16 0

15-17 0

14-16 0

13-15 0

11-13 0

baTumi

12-14 0

14-16 0

15-17 0

16-18 0

15-17 0

16-18 0

12-14 0

zugdidi

11-13 0

12-14 0

13-15 0

14-16 0

16-18 0

15-17 0

11-13 0

gori

4-6 0

6-9 0

5-7 0

6-8 0

7-10 0

8-10 0

7-9 0

Telavi

7-9 0

8-10 0

7-9 0

8-10 0

8-9 0

6-8 0

10-11 0

foTi

13-15 0

12-14 0

13-15 0

11-13 0

14-16 0

12-14 0

13-15 0

40

saredaqcio kolegia

yvela ufleba daculia;

`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli

masalebis nebismieri saxiT

gamoyeneba da gavrceleba

redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad

akrZalulia!

gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul

masalebs aqvT sareklamo

xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia

SeiZleba ar daemTxves

redaqciis Sexedulebas.

mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)

marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22

rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06

SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50

mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55

injgia nene 591 71 39 98

sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 90

qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40

laRaZe Sorena 557 56 23 66

deviZe daviT

stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;

redaqciis misamarTi:

Tbilisi, gudauris N3,

pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;

tel.: 294 69 77;

sareklamo ganyofileba,

gavrcelebis samsaxuri

Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10

gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~

ISSN 2346-8025

294 69 77;

qronikaqronika@gmail.com

40 N39 (300) 10.12-16.12.2019 w.

qronika+39(300)

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