qronika+321

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com

yovelkvireuli gazeTi

baCana lobJaniZe:

gamodis samSabaTobiT N19 (321) 11.08

08.20

.2020

fasi 2 lari

`dea kapanaZe

Tamar

baCaliaSvilze

mniSvnelovan

faqtebs

malavs~

gv. 4

ingilo qalis

tragikuli aRsasruli

ras hyveba nika

gejaZe Tamar

ratom qrebian

instagramidan Tamuna

baCaliaSvilis

foloverebi?

gv. 12

giorgi fanculaia:

`gamoZieba

mxolod

TviTmkvlelobis

versiis

gasaRebaze

muSaobs~

gv. 8

baCaliaSvilze?

èrTi xalisiani

gogo, romelzec

vinc icnobda,

cuds verasdros

ityvis~

gv. 2

SaqaraSvilis saqmis

gauxmaurebeli detalebi

gv. 5

gv. 26

gigla baramiZe:

àxalqalaqis

incidenti ase

martivad ar

dasruldeba~

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

gv. 18

badri basiSvili:

`cxinvalis

regionSi omi

2008 wels ar

dawyebula~

gv. 20

giorgi vaSaZe:

`me

aucileblad

gavxdebi

premieri~

1


ras hyveba nika gejaZe

23 wlis programist Tamar ba-

eliso kilaZe

CaliaSvilis burusiT moculi mkv-

599 17 12 12

leloba Tu TviTmkvleloba karga

xans iqneba sazogadoebis gansjis

sagani. daisva da momavalSic daismeba araerTi, maT Soris, uxerxuli

kiTxvac, sajarod ganixileba baCaliaSvilis piradi cx-

ovreba; gamoCnda werili momavlidan da misi cxovrebis ori

ucnauri persona, e. w. Seyvarebuli baCana lobJaniZe da axlo

megobari dea kapanaZe.

orive maTgani eqskluziurad

ukve iyo „qronika+”-is redaq-

toris respondenti. dRes Cveni

stumaria kompania „zegis” dam-

fuZnebeli nika gejaZe:

_ nika, daviwyoT bolo ambiT:

bolo ambavi ki iyo Cven Sexve-

dramde, roca kompania „zegis”

TanamSromlebTan da TqvenTanac

saxlebSi Catarda Cxreka. ra iyo

Cxrekis motivacia?

_ ganCinebaSi zogadad ewera:

yvelaferi aralegaluri, rac Sei-

Zleboda enaxaT da amoeRoT. sxva

saqme rom yofiliyo, sasamarTlo

am arguments cota sasacilod miiCnevda.

amoiRes kompiuterebi, mexsierebis

baraTebi.

_ ar dagaeWvaT iman, rom gan-

Cineba gaica erTi kviriT adre da

Cxreka Catarda erTi kviris

Tavze?

_ im momentSi imdeni adamiani

Semovida saxlSi, rom realurad

ganCinebis bolomde wakiTxvis Sansic

ar mqonda. vis unda waekiTxa?

aqeT-iqiT oTaxebSi davyvebodi,

yvelafers Cxrekdnen.

_ ra waiRes Tqvengan?

_ kompiuterebi, myari diski,

mexsierebis baraTebi, leptopi.

_ ras fiqrobT, ras eZebdnen?

_ ar vici, ras eZebdnen.

_ Tqveni kompaniis saqmianobaze

momiyeviT. rodis dafuZnda igi da

ra iyo misi saqmianobis sfero

saqarTveloSi?

_ kompania 2015 wels dafuZnda.

es aris programuli uzrunvelyofa

da, realurad, aranair kavSir-

Si ar aris im ciliswamebasTan, rasac

gvabraleben pirveli dRidan.

es igrZnoba da, gnebavT, CamogiTvliT,

rac maxsovs: trolebi, rusuli

specsamsaxurebis agentebi, fulis

gaTeTreba, narkomarketi da a.

S. vinc micnobs, yvelaze prodasavluri

adamiani var, ruseTTan Cemi

dakavSireba Seuracxyofaa.

_ miTxres, rom irakli alasa-

nias megobari xarT.

_ saerTod ar vicnob. SegrZneba

maqvs, rom yoveldRe raRac sxvadasxva

Wori undaT mogvargon da

rac mere kargad mogvergeba, imas

mogvawebeben.

_ realurad, ras saqmianobT?

gasageb enaze gviTxariT, mkiTxv-

els martivad rom avuxsnaT.

_ realur enaze: vakeTebT programul

aplikaciebs. nebismieri

kompiuteriT rom SexvideT raime

vebgverdze, is vebgverdi aris aplikacia,

ase vTqvaT, programa. ai,

magas vqmniT Cven, mets arafers. am

programebs mere rogor gamoiyeneben,

eg saerTod sxva sakiTxia.

_ am dReebSi aseve wamoiWra

sakiTxi, Tu raSi gamoiyeneba Tqve-

ni programebi.

_ Zalian martivi magaliTi rom

mogiyvanoT, aviRoT fotoSopi, igi

erT-erTi aplikaciaa. vinc es fotoSopi

daamzada, saerTod ar ainteresebs,

rogor fotos Seqmni, _

iq viRac gogos gaaxduneb Tu gaasuqeb.

es aris is martivi magali-

Ti, rom es yvelaferi avxsnaT. Cven,

realurad, aplikaciebi SevqmeniT,

mivawodeT klients, magram igi rogor

gamoiyenebs produqts, Cveni

saqme ar aris, es aris im kompaniis

saqme.

_ ramdeni TanamSromeli

gyavT?

_ 48 TanamSromeli, Tu ar vcdebi.

_ Tamuna rogor ipoveT?

_ Tamunam reziume-sv gamogvigzavna.

ar vici, romel saitze ipova

_ job.ge-ze Tu „reiCarze”. movida

gasaubrebaze, gviTxra, rom iyo

studenti, swavlobda, muSaobis

gamocdileba manamde ar gaaCnda,

magram hqonda Zalian didi interesi,

es yvelaferi rom eswavla.

aviyvaneT praqtikaze. Tu sworad

maxsovs, eqvsi Tve praqtikaze iyo

da Semdeg Cajda StatSi. swavla undoda,

moswonda, rasac akeTebda,

aRtacebuli iyo, erTi suli hqonda,

samsaxurSi mosuliyo da muSaoba

daewyo. Zalian bevri TanamSromeli

gvyavs, romelic analogiurad

aviyvaneT da gaizardnen, rogorc

profesionalebi.

_ rogori gogo iyo, profesi-

ul Cvevebs vgulisxmob?

_ profesiulad iyo saSualo

donis programisti, magram yovel-

Tvis uyvarda axlis swavla. axali

teqnologia Tu Sexvdeboda, gaxarebuli

iyo, erTi suli hqonda, Seeswavla.

Tundac urTierTobaSi

yovelTvis pozitiuri iyo, yovelTvis

momRimari, arc erTi gamarjoba

Rimilis gareSe ar maxsovs...

_ mizandasaxuli da Sromismoy-

vare...

_ ki batono...

_ depresia Tu SegimCneviaT?

_ ara. erTaderTi Tamunas mowyeniloba

rac maxsovs, bebiis gardacvalebas

Zalian ganicdida.

_ ratom midioda samsaxuri-

dan?

_ imitom, rom vicodiT, meore

samsaxurSi muSaobda, paralelurad

swavlobda da sul ambobda,

rom swavla misTvis prioriteti

iyo. undoda, bolomde mieyvana ganaTlebis

sakiTxebi da Semdeg

daewyo muSaoba. amaze laparakobda

TiTqmis bolo erTi weli.

_ xelfasi ramdeni hqonda, mar-

Tla kolosalur Tanxebzea

saubari?

_ ara, bolos hqonda 1400 dolaris

ekvivalenti larebSi, 4500

laramde. rogorc aJRereben, 4000-

dan 15 aTas laramdeo, Cveni amerikeli

damfuZnebeli rom CarTes,

xazs vusvam: isini saubroben weliwadSi

da ara TveSi, amitom wliuri

xelfasi gaJRerda, TiTqos TveSi

iRebda. aqedan gamomdinare, yvela

Sevida SecdomaSi. magram kidev

erTs davamateb, _ Tundac is

sqrinSoti, romelic me gavaziare,

roca Tamuna mwers, rom samsaxuridan

gadawyvita wasvla, dro mi-

TiTebulia „pm”, 4:36 wuTi, daaxloebiT,

romelic niSnavs saRamos.

aseve yvelam gaaJRera, rom dilis

èrTi xalisiani

gogo, romelzec

vinc icnobda, cuds

verasdros ityvis~

4-5 saaTze mwerda, rac absoluturi

tyuilia.

_ anu Tqven sxvisgan ar gagigiaT,

Tamunasgan gaigeT, rom samsax-

uridan midioda?

_ ki batono.

_ ar dagenanaT Tqveni gaz-

rdili Stati da ar SesTavazeT,

rom darCeniliyo?

_ orSabaTs visaubreT mag Temaze,

manamde ramdenjerme vilaparakeT

da ufro detalurad rom mogiyveT,

Tamunas CemTan naTqvami

aqvs, roca pirvelad gaaJRera samsaxuridan

wasvlaze, vkiTxe, ratom-meTqi?

iqneb, rame ar moswons

samsaxurSi an rame ar akmayofilebs-meTqi?

da aseTi raRac miTxra,

rom sami weli erT kompaniaSi muSaoba

didi dro aris iseTi adamianisTvis,

romelsac sWirdeba ganviTareba

da mimaCnia, sxvadasxva

kompaniaSi unda imuSaos adamianma,

rom sxvadasxvanairi gamocdileba

miiRoso. me vuTxari, rom am kompaniaSi,

daaxloebiT, 9 welia vmuSaob.

Zalian gaukvirda, _ ki magram,

9 weli ratom darCio? me avuxseni,

rom komfortulad vgrZnobdi

Tavs da ar mqonda sxva samsaxuris

Zebnis survili, Cemi komfortis

zonaSi viyavi da maxsovs Tqva, _ Zalian

sainteresoao. magis mere gavige,

rom meore samsaxuri hqonda.

_ ra samsaxuri iyo, icodiT?

_ ar mikiTxavs. TviTon miTxra,

rom sxvagan muSaobda. magram samsaxuridan

rom gadis adamiani, ras

gaakeTebs, namdvilad ar aris Cemi

saqme da ufro piradulad mimaCnia.

ar aris saWiro yvelas mouyves,

sxva samsaxurSic vmuSaobo. arc

erT TanamSromelze vici, sxvagan

muSaobs Tu _ ara. Sesabamisad, arc

Tamunaze davinteresebulvar. kidev

vicodi, safrangeTSi undoda

saswavleblad wasvla. magis mere,

erTkviriani Svebulebis nacvlad,

orkviriani Svebuleba aiRo. CavTvaleT,

rom SesaZlebeli iyo, samsaxuridan

wasuliyo. amis Semdeg erTi

kvira imuSava da wavida. orSabaT

dRes kidev visaubreT. SevTavaze,

darCi-meTqi da Tqva, mirCevnia, swavla

gavagrZelo da Semdeg daviwyo

muSaobao. xuTSabaTs Tu paraskevs

miTxra, samsaxuridan mivdivaro.

vuTxari, gasagebia-meTqi. ramdenjer

SeiZleboda adamianisTvis

meTqva, rom darCeniliyo?

_ TviTmkvlelobis versiis

gjeraT?

_ imdeni Wori da imdeni raRac

vrceldeba, rom me TviTon veRar

vigeb, risi mjera. sworad gamigeT,

TamunasTan gatarebuli maqvs sami

weli, vicnobdi, xvdebiT?

_ yvelaze kargad Tqven icnob-

diT, praqtikulad, megobrebi ar

hyavda, rogorc vxedav.

_ adamianebi, romlebic Tavs

deben, rom xuTi wlis ganmavloba-

Si Seyvarebulebi iyvnen, elementaruli

ar ician masze. albaT es

TviTpopulizacia Tu ra aris, ar

vici, ras cdiloben, magasac ver

vigeb. ukve imdeni tyuili arsebobs

am yvelafris garSemo, rom simar-

Tle ra aris, minda, xalxma realurad

gaigos.

_ nika, ra aris realurad Tamu-

naze simarTle?

_ simarTle is aris, rom iyo

erTi Zalian mowadinebuli adamiani,

undoda yofiliyo Zalian ganviTarebuli

programisti, erTi

xalisiani gogo, romelzec, savaraudod,

vinc icnobda, cuds verasdros

ityvis. Tundac is Worebi,

rom raRac sistemaSi SeaRwia, imasac

ver xvdebian, rom adamians abraleben

hakerobas, romelic aralegaluri

saqmianobaa da mis saxelsac

svrian talaxSi, es Cemamde ar

dadis.

- kompiuteri, romliTac Tamuna

sargeblobda da Semdeg eqsper-

tiza Cautarda, Tqvenma kompaniam

SeiZina. Tqven gjeraT, rom yvelaferi

waSlili iyo garda fotoebisa

da videoebisa? am kiTx-

vas amitom gisvamT: gavrcelda

Worebi, rom kompaniis sistemidan

waiSala yvelaferi, rom kvali ar

daetovebinaT da darCa mxolod

fotoebi da firebi.

_ anu aris Tu ara centraluri

serveri, romelic TanamSromlebs

akontrolebs?

_ aseTi ar gaqvT?

_ gamoZiebam Zalian kargad icis,

ra gvaqvs da ra ar gvaqvs. egeTi ram

Cven ar gagvaCnia da, Sesabamisad,

verafers vizamdiT. es kompiuteri

iyo gamomZieblis xelSi, Cven Tamuna

fizikurad ar gvinaxavs, rac pandemia

daiwyo. magis mere fizikuradac

ver viqnebodiT axlos. arc aseTi

aranairi servisi ar gvaqvs, rom

Soridan, gamorTuli da daluquli

kompiuteridan rame wavSaloT,

romelic ganyofilebaSi devs.

es aris erTgvari Wori. etyoba,

bevr fantastikur films uyurebs

2 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


Tamar baCaliaSvilze?

xalxi, vinc am dezinformacias

avrcelebs da maqedan modis es yvelaferi,

Torem logikurad rom

vimsjeloT, rogor SeiZleba, gamorTuli

kompiuteridan waSalos

distanciurad vinmem rame?

_ Tqveni kompania pornosait-

ebs emsaxureba?

_ Cveni kompania aris developeruli

kompania. Tavidan developerebi

yvelas mSeneblebi egona da

mere mixvdnen, rom samSeneblo kompaniasTan

ver dagvakavSirebdnen.

gaiges, rom developeric programistia.

vinc Cvens kompaniaSi muSaobs,

yvela TanamSromeli aris

teqnikuri piri, vinc programebs

qmnis da ara, pornografias.

_ TanamSromlebi erTmaneTs

marTla ar icnoben?

_ ras hqvia, ar icnoben? (icinis)

_ egeTi Worebic arsebobs, rom

erTmaneTTan ar aqvT komunika-

ciao.

_ xom xvdebiT, sasacilod ar

gvyofnis, magram ar vici, es yvelaferi

sasaciloa Tu satirali.

Cven vqmniT programebs, Cven ar

vqmniT pornografias. Cven am Seqmnil

programebs vaZlevT klientebs,

isini rogor gamoiyeneben,

maTi saqmea. realurad, Cven pornografias

ar vqmniT.

_ nika, davazustoT, me ar ge-

kiTxebiT, pornografias iRebT

Tu ara. mesmis, rom ar iRebT, ma-

gram Tqveni klientebi, romlebic

sargebloben Tqven mier dawerili

programebiT, arian Tu ara dakav-

Sirebuli pornoindustriasTan?

gaqvT Tu ara aseTi informacia

Tqven?

_ ki, vadastureb magas, aseve

sxva tipis saitebzec aris gamoyenebuli

Cven mier gakeTebuli

programebi.

_ magaliTad?

_ erT-erTi aris qsovilebis

eleqtronuli maRazia, anu warmoidgineT

„mai avto.ge” an „mai

market.ge” an Tundac ufro gavamartiveb:

warmovidginoT raime

telekompaniis vebgverdi, developerma

Seqmna es vebgverdi da is

developeri ar aris Jurnalisti.

Jurnalistma mere ra gamoaqveyna

am vebgverdze, saerTod ar aris

daveloperis saqme...

_ Tumca davazustoT: rodesac

programas qmniT, iciT, rom qmniT

imisTvis, raTa es programa moem-

saxuros pornosaitebs.

_ ki batono, viciT.

_ ramdenad SeiZleboda, Tamu-

nas daewera programa, romelic

pornosaitebisTvis gamodgeboda?

_ ara, Tamunas bolo proeqti me

TviTon gavasajarove, romelsac

Zalian didi ignori mohyva. televiziaSi

movkari Tvali, albaT, er-

Ti an ori wamiT. SemiZlia, Tqvenc

gamogigzavnoT es, imitom, rom am

daweril programas Cven TviTon

viyenebdiT, es programa iyo erTerTi...

SemiZlia, yvela programa

CamogiTvaloT, romelzedac Tamunas

umuSavia, arc magis problema

maqvs, magram es programa aris

CemTvis ufro saintereso im mxriv,

rom distanciur muSaobaze roca

gadavediT, ver aRvricxavdiT, xalxi

vin Sedioda ofisSi, vin gamodioda

da vis ramdeni saaTi hqonda

namuSevari. rogorc giTxariT,

Cven 8 saaTs moviTxovdiT samuSao

dRes, amitom Tamunam iseTi aplikacia

Seqmna, sadac virtualurad

vebgverdze Sehyavda TanamSromels

Tamar baCaliaSvilze?

ès yvelaferi aris yovlad usafuZvlo da

pirdapiri ciliswameba. im adamianis TavSi ra

xdeba, ver getyviT, arc am baCanas vicnob.

pirvelad televiziaSi vnaxe mec da ase

gamiznulad marTlac Cvenken iSvers xels,

TiTqosda raRac davaSaveT da ra davaSaveT,

magasac bolomde ver vigeb, magram mec mimaCnia,

rom eg pirovneba gamosaZiebelia~

Tavisi momxmareblis saxeli da paroli

da hqonda ori Rilaki, aWerda

„starts” da „stops”: roca iwyebda

muSaobas, daaWerda

„starts”, iwereboda dawyebis dro,

muSaobis damTavrebis Semdeg awveboda

Rilak „stops”, rom muSaoba

daamTavra da iwereboda damTavrebis

droc. damTavrebis dros gamoklebuli

dawyebis dro gvaCvenebs,

ramdeni saaTi hqonda namuSevari

TanamSromels. es iyo magis bolo

proeqti. realurad, Tamunas

aranairi Sexeba ar hqonda pornosaitebTan.

sxva proeqtebic iseTi

aris, rom, savaraudod, yvela arc

me vici zustad, sad gamoiyenes,

magram Tamunas yurebac ki ar uwevda,

Tu magaze mekiTxebiT.

_ ufro garkveviT minda CagekiTxoT:

arsebobdnen Tqvens ko-

mpaniaSi adamianebi, romlebic

werdnen programas da es programa

iyo, vTqvaT, +18 momsaxurebi-

sTvis, pornosaitebisTvis, magram

Tamuna aq ar iyo CarTuli, Tu

rogori formulirebiT, iqneb,

ganmimartoT, rogor iyo?

_ ara, ara. magaliTad,

eleqtronuli komercia, sityvaze

„amazoni”, „mai marketi” an aTasi

sxva magaliTi SemiZlia moviyvano.

Cven gvaqvs davaleba, rom SevqmnaT

es eleqtronuli komerciis platforma,

vqmniT mas. warmovidginoT

maRaziis vebgverdi da ra gaiyideba,

ukve Cveni saqme aRar aris.

_ magram amis miuxedavad, Tamu-

na iyo is TanamSromeli, romelic

msgavsi platformis SeqmnaSi

monawileobda?

_ ki, radgan es platforma marto

erTi patara raRac ar aris,

uzarmazari proeqtia, raSic patara

monawileoba eqneba miRebuli.

_ nika, unda CagekiTxoT wer-

ilze „momavlidan”...

_ aprilSi movida raRac werili,

romelic roca wavikiTxe, naxevari

Sinaarsi ver gavige.

_ teqnikuri adamianebisTvis

romantikuli werilebi cota

gaugebaria. (icinis).

_ iseT raRacebze iyo saubari,

romelic saerTod aravisTan makav-

Sirebda mag momentisTvis. Cvens

direqtor TamunasTan aseve vmegobrob

da ubralod vkiTxe, rom me

mgonia, es werili gamogzavnilia-meTqi.

im dRes Tamunam gaaJRera, rom

realurad es SeiZleba Tamuna iyoso...

_ gaaJRera TqvenTan Tu sajar-

od?

_ CemTan, CemTan, es CemTan mimoweraSi

xdeboda... davuSvaT, rom

SeiZleboda Tamuna yofiliyo, magram

magis mere TamunasTan mimowera

mqonda da realurad adamiani

ar iqceoda ise, rom is yofiliyo

da mec davuSvi, rom SeiZleba vi-

Racas SeeSala da Zalian xSirad

xdeba, rom Cemi meilia Cemi gvari,

xandaxan win viRacas aso uweria,

vTqvaT, e.gejaZe, an m.gejaZe da eSlebaT

xolme xSirad da CavTvale,

rom viRacam gamogzavna, me arafer

SuaSi var da daviviwye. mere

iuristTan saubris dros bevri

kiTxva damisva, viTom fsiqolog-

Tan Cemze laparakobda. realurad

ar vici da CamekiTxnen, iqneb, rame

gaixseno, ra moxdao da Cvenc roca

daviwyeT mimowerebis wakiTxva, es

werili aRmovaCineT. ra Tqma unda,

egreve waviReT gamoZiebasTan, magram

werilis gamomgzavni iq realurad

ar Cans. Cven CavTvaleT,

rom iqneb, raime kavSiri hqonoda

TamunasTan da magitom mivawodeT

gamoZiebas, raTa es yvelaferi

gamoeZiebinaT.

_ dRes rogor fiqrobT, iyo

Tu ara Tamuna amis avtori?

_ dResac ar mgonia simarTle,

imitom, rom bevri raRacebia im

werilSi, rac dRemde gaugebaria

CemTvis, magram ubralod ar vicodi

da merCivna, rom gamoeZiebinaT.

Tundac is saiti, romelic aris

„momavali me”. imeds vitoveb, Canawerebi

arsebobs kidev, imeds vitoveb,

rom aipi misamarTebi arsebobs

da imedi maqvs, rom daadgenen.

_ logikaSi arc jdeba, adamiani,

romelic yoveldRe gxedav-

daT.

_ ver mxedavda, radgan pandemiis

periodi iyo...

_ Tundac, SeeZlo piradad

gamoegzavna TqvenTvis da ara

„werili momavlidan” formatiT.

_ ki batono.

_ arasodes yofila misgan ms-

gavsi miniSneba?

_ ara, erTmaneTze realurad

piraduli TiTqmis araferi vicodiT,

Zalian elementaruls Tu

ar CavTvliT. instagramsa da feisbuqze

rac hqonda dadebuli an me

rac mqonda dadebuli, magas Tu ar

CavTvliT, saerTod masze araferi

vicodi.

_ mis megobrebs icnobdiT?

_ ara, ara...

_ arc Seyvarebulis arseboba

icodiT?

_ arc mikiTxavs, mis piradi cxovrebaSi

an TanamSromlebis pirad

cxovrebaSi ratom unda Cavixedo?

_ am dros ase sruliad moulodnelad

gamoCnda baCana lob-

JaniZe, romelic acxadebs, rom

aris Tamuna baCaliaSvilis Sey-

varebuli da ZiriTadi aqcentebi

misi mxridan gadmotanilia Tqvens

kompaniaze, Tqveni misamarTiT.

ras ukavSirebT am eWvebs, es aris

gamiznuli antipiari Tu, ubral-

od, eWvianobaa?

_ es yvelaferi aris yovlad

usafuZvlo da pirdapiri ciliswameba.

im adamianis TavSi ra xdeba,

ver getyviT, arc am baCanas vicnob.

pirvelad televiziaSi vnaxe

mec da ase gamiznulad marTlac

Cvenken iSvers xels, TiTqosda

raRac davaSaveT da ra davaSaveT,

magasac bolomde ver vigeb, magram

mec mimaCnia, rom eg pirovneba gamosaZiebelia.

_ ratom?

_ SexedeT, araadekvaturia.

_ ra aris es, eWvianoba Tu Savi

piari?

_ me mgoni, orive, ufro Sav piars

vityodi an sakuTari Tavis

gapiarebas cdilobs da rogorRac

unda, rom... ar vici, ver getyviT.

_ rodesme Tamunas uTqvams,

rom ucxoeTSi wasvlas apirebda?

saswavleblad rom apirebda, vic-

iT, magram TavSesafrisTvis an

msgavsi problemebi mas arasodes

uxsenebia?

_ rogorc maxsovs, saswavleblad

undoda wasvla, magram TavSesafarze

araferi uTqvams. ambobda,

rom swavlis gagrZeleba undoda.

_ ucnauroba, uxasiaToba,

araferi iseTi, rac SeiZleboda

gogonas TviTmkvlelobis mizezi

gamxdariyo, ar SeginiSnavT?

_ kidev erTxel vusvam xazs: pandemiis

dawyebidan Tamuna ar gvinaxavs,

erTaderTi gvqonda kvira-

Si erTxel videozarebi, sadac

mTeli ofisis TanamSromlebi Semodian,

uamravi adamiani Cans erT

ekranze da rom giTxraT raime gansakuTrebuli

SevamCnie-meTqi, ara.

dazustebiT SemiZlia giTxraT,

rom pandemiamde Tamunas araferi

etyoboda saerTod.

_ mimowera Tu iyo? bolos

ofisSi dabruneba undoda?

_ aseTi bevri iyo Tveebis ganmavlobaSi.

roca safrangeTidan

Camovida, maxsovs, mwerda, xvalve

gamovalo. kviris bolo iyo da

veubnebodi, erTi-ori dRe daisvene,

SabaT-kvirasac daisvene da

barem dasvenebuli orSabaTs modimeTqi.

gveubneboda, ver moviTmen,

erTi suli maqvs, rodis moval samsaxurSio.

_ rodis gaigeT Tamunas

dakargvis ambavi da visgan?

_ SabaT saRamos damireka misma

megobarma deam. ar vici, rogor

mipova, ufro sworad, instagramze

momwera, _ TqvenTan Tu SeiZleba

saubario? azrze ar viyavi, vin iyo,

vkiTxe, _ vin xar-meTqi? momwera,

Tamunas megobari varo. miTxra,

rom eZebdnen da ver poulobdnen.

maSinve gavugzavne nomeri, damireka.

ar vici, tiroda Tu ra, telefoniT

ver mivxvdi, magram aRelvebuli

rom iyo, faqtia. mkiTxa, rom

rame gansakuTrebulze xom ar

muSaobda Tamuna an SemTxveviT xom

ar vicodi, sad muSaoda sxvagan? ra

Tqma unda, vuTxari, rom eg informacia

ar mqonda. damemSvidoba, kargiTo...

_ ar giTxraT, rogor gipovaT?

_ miTxra, rom marto saxeli

icoda Cemi da magiT mipova instagramze.

SeiZleba, ubralod Tamunas

megobrebSi mnaxa, didad ar

davinteresebulvar, rogor mipova

deam, ufro is mainteresebda,

realurad sad iyo Tamuna. Semdeg

naxevar saaTSi damireka gamomZiebelma

da miTxra, SemTxveviT xom

ar vicodi, sad iyo? masac igive informacia

mivawode, rom ar vicodi,

sad iyo da ase gavige...

_ realurad, gamodis, rom...

mapatieT, es piradi sivrcea, ma-

gram imdenad didia interesi, rom

kiTxvebi unda daisvas... baCana

lobJaniZis gancxadebiT, deam mas

uTxra, rom Tamunas masTan Tqven-

ze raRac hqonda moyolili.

_ bodiSi, gamimeoreT, Tu Sei-

Zleba.

_ baCana lobJaniZis TqmiT,

Tamunas megobarma dea kapanaZem

mas uTxra, rom Tamuna xSirad

elaparakeboda mas Tqvenze, pirad

grZnobebze.

_ (icinis) me ra komentari unda

gavakeTo magaze, deam ra uTxra

baCanas?

_ Tqvenze?

_ an Cemze... ubralod, ver vxvdebi,

ra SeiZleboda eTqva Cemze?

deam ra uTxra baCanas, magaze komentars

ver gavakeTeb. deas hkiTxeT,

ra uTxra baCanas an baCanas

hkiTxeT, ra uTxra deam.

_ rogor apirebT saqmianobis

gagrZelebas? kompania am pirobeb-

Sia ase mZime reputaciuli dart-

ymiT da teqnikis gareSec...

_ jerjerobiT aranairi saSualeba

ar gvaqvs, rom saqme gavagr-

ZeloT.

_ Tqveni amerikeli damfuZne-

beli ras ambobs?

_ Tqven am ambavs auxsnidiT

normalur adamians, rogor xdeba

es yvelaferi, yoveldRe rogor

viTardeba movlenebi da rogor

icvleba istoriebi?

_ namdvilad vera...

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

3


`Tamari Seuvali da mizandasaxuli iyo~

„qronika+~-is mTavari redaq-

nene injgia

toris eqskluziurad Cawerilma

591 71 39 98

intervium Tamar baCaliaSvilis megobar

dea kapanaZesTan saqmeSi ax-

ali kiTxvebi gaaCina. dea kapanaZe bevr kiTxvaze ar pasuxobs,

Tumca is, Tamaris ojaxisgan gansxvavebiT, gamoZiebas endoba.

baCana lobJaniZe:

`dea kapanaZe

mas aseve komunikacia hqonda

baCana lobJaniZesTan. „qronika+~sTan

saubarSi lobJaniZe sruliad

axal versiaze saubrobs, rom-

lis mixedviTac deas kavSiri aqvs

baCaliaSvilis gauCinarebasTan.

Tamar baCaliaSvilis saqmeSi

erT-erT mTavar figurants

„qronika+

nika+~-ma gasul kviras miag-

no. baCana lobJaniZis gamoCenam,

romlis TqmiTac is da Tamari

Seyvarebulebi iyvnen, saqmeSi

kidev ufro meti kiTxvis niSani

gaaCina.

lobJaniZe mTeli kviris gan-

mavlobaSi vrclad saubrobda

sakuTar versiebze, Tumca sa-

zogadoebis didi nawili mas eWvis

TvaliT uyurebda. misi versiiT,

Tamar baCaliaSvilis gar-

dacvaleba dakavSirebuli iyo

kompania ZAG-is saqmianobasTan,

sadac is muSaobda. rogorc

gairkva, kompania programul

uzrunvelyofas uwevda pornosaitebs,

rasac kompaniaSic adas-

tureben. aseve misi varaudiT, im

SemTxvevaSi, Tu suicidia, maSin

es SesaZloa, BMI-s (sxeulis wo-

nis indeqsis erT-erTi kategoria,

underweiht-i, romlis standartia

18.5, Tamars ki hqonda 14. ganmsazRvreli

niSnuli standart-

ulze bevrad dabali iyo; wonis

ganmsaRvreli kategoria) ukav-

Sirdebodes.

baCana lobJaniZem „baCaliaSvi-

lis saqmis” axal versiasa da bevr

gauxmaurebel detalze „qroni-

ka+~-Tan isaubra:

_ baCana, rogorc ambobT, Tamar

baCaliaSvilTan 5-wliani urT-

ierToba gakavSirebT, Sesabamisad,

mis Sesaxeb bevri ram unda ico-

deT, rogor daaxasiaTebT mas?

_ Tamars imaze kargad vicnobdi,

vidre is sakuTar Tavs icnobda.

Tumca mas bolo periodSi

sulieri Tvalebi aRar hqonda.

vgrZnobdi, rom CemTan yofnis

dros, paralelurad, Sors fiqrobda

da damoukideblad raRacas

gegmavda. zogadad ki is Seuvali

da mizandasaxuli iyo. yvelas ar

uyadrebda Tavs. martivad ar

brazdeboda da advilad ar Riziandeboda.

bolo periodSi is ar

iyo Camoyalibebuli, Tu ra poziciaze

unda emuSava kompiuterul

mecnierebebSi. misTvis kompania

ZAG-Si muSaoba iyo rutina, araprogresirebadi,

metic: SesaZloa,

bolo dros regresic ki yofiliyo.

aRsaniSnavia isic, rom Tamari

ukanasknel xans deasTan erTad

samsaxurs eZebda. erTi mniSvnelovani

detali maxsendeba: mas uyvarda

gamonaTqvamebi. erTxel mas

vTxove CemTvis gadaeRo suraTi

inglisurenovani teqstisTvis, man

ki gamomigzavna inglisurad fraza,

romlis qarTuli Sesatyvisia:

„yvelaze kargi, rac SeuZlia adamianma

gaakeTos, aris is, rasac

misgan ar elian”. im momentSi am

frazisTvis gansakuTrebuli

yuradReba ar mimiqcevia, Tumca

axla sainteresod mimaCnia.

_ rogor aRiqvamT siyvaruls,

ras moicavda Tqveni urTierToba

da ratom iyo TqvenTvis mniSvnelovani

Tamaris Tqvens cx-

ovrebaSi arseboba?

_ Cven unda vicodeT, ra aris

urTierToba da urTierToba aris

erTad yofnis zeimi. amis Semdeg

unda gavigoT, ratom varT erTad,

ra aris mizani erTad yofnis da

risTvis aris zeimi es erTad yofna.

me da Tamari erTad imitom

viyaviT, rom msgavsi msgavss poulobs.

rac Seexeba erTad yofnas,

Cven gvindoda maradiulad erTad

yofna. rac Seexeba zeims, „siyvaruli

ar aris iq, sadac ori

erTmaneTs uyurebs, siyvarulia

iq, sadac ori mesames uyurebs”.

samwuxarod, Tamars, razedac me

vsaubrob, am mimarTulebiT codnaSi

nakleboba hqonda. me masSi,

rogorc mokvdavSi, ukvdavs veZebdi.

me ar veWidebodi warmavals,

magaliTad, xorciel kavSirs, me

veWidebodi imas, rac mudmivida, e.

i. suls.

_ rogor gaige da ra moimo-

qmede mas Semdeg, rac Tamaris

gauCinarebis ambavi gaige?

_ gauCinarebidan mesame dRes,

saxlis mimdebared, parkSi, viyavi,

Tbilisis saxelmwifo universitetis

studentTa momsaxurebis centris

TanamSromels vwerdi Cems

saqmeze, roca man saubrisas momwera,

Tamari dakargulao. maSinve

gaviqeci saxlSi. Cemi ojaxis

wevrebs SesvlisTanave vkiTxe, _

ra xdeba-meTqi?! CavTvale, rom

maT SeiZleboda, sainformacioebidan

ukve rame scodnodaT.

_ konkretulad gviTxariT, ra

gaifiqreT da ra emoica gqondaT

im wuTs, roca es waikiTxeT?

_ maSinve vifiqre, rom Tamarma

es mizanmimarTulad gaakeTa mSoblebisgan

Tavis aridebis mizniT.

amis safuZvels is maZlevda, rom

Tamars jansaRi urTierToba ar

hqonda mSoblebTan, arc warsul-

Si da arc awmyoSi. Tamari yvelafers

ise warmoaCenda, TiTqos mis

cxovrebaSi yvelaferi rigze iyo,

Tumca sinamdvileSi sapirispiro

xdeboda. lisze yofnisas vkiTxe,

Tu riT gansxvavdeboda misi da

mSoblebis urTierToba sxvebisgan,

razedac mipasuxa, _ arafri-

To. maSin, Tu arafriT, ratom ar

gaqvs jansaRi urTierToba-meTqi?

da man bavSvobidan gaixsena epizodi,

roca mama jariskacis formis

karaqian purebs ukeTebda. es

cota meucnaura.

_ rogorc ambobT, Tamari 2015

wlidan Tqveni Seyvarebuli iyo.

sakmarisi dro gqondaT erTmane-

Tis gasacnobad? dabadebis

dReze mSoblebis Tema ratom

gaxda aqtualuri?

_ me mudmivad mainteresebda

Tamaris mSoblebTan urTierTobis

sakiTxi, radgan vxvdebodi,

rom is raRacas malavda. Sesabamisad,

TiTqmis yovel Sexvedraze

am Temas ganvixilavdiT. gamonaklisi

arc dabadebis dRe yofila,

miT umetes, bevr Temaze visaubreT

am dRes.

_ visi iniciativiT aRniSneT

dabadebis dRe?

_ sanam amaze gipasuxebT, minda,

erTi faqti gavixseno: 4 ivniss

Tamarma misTvis uCveulo suraTi

(instagramis sTorze) dado. Sei-

Zleba iTqvas, rom msgavsi saxiT

Cacmuli manamde arc erT foto-

Si ar yofila. am fotodan gamomdinare

vifiqre, rom Tamari ukve

arsebiTs aRar eZebda, anu imas,

rac mis SigniTaa, sulier samyaros

da gareT am formiT daiwyo amis

Zebna. cxadia, ver ipovi iq, sadac

ar aris. es misi mxridan fuW qmedebad

CavTvale. am qmedebiT dadasturda,

rom misTvis sulieri nawili

ukana planze gadavida. me am

Tamar

baCaliaSvilze

mniSvnelovan

faqtebs malavs~

`me konkretuli kiTxvebi maqvs deasTan: sad

imyofeboda is Tamaris gauCinarebis dRes?

aseve Tu is saukeTeso megobaria da TamarTan

erTad yovelTvis im kafeSi dadioda, sadac

Tamarma mimiyvana, ratom ar imyofeboda dea

saukeTeso megobris dabadebis dReze? deas

`feisbuqidan~ dedamisma momwera, vin xar da

ra gindao? vuTxari, rom deasTan saubari

mindoda, ris Semdegac dambloka.

fotos gamovexmaure da mivwere,

_ ratom drtvinav? razedac Tamarma

gakvirvebis smailebi momwera.

Semdegac mivwere, rom masTan

saubari mindoda, unda gamerkvia,

ratom atvirTa aseTi foto? meore

da mesame dResac mivwere am

Temaze, Tumca mas sapasuxod ar

mouweria, ris Semdegac me Tamari

„feisbukze” davbloke, radgan

CavTvale, rom am situaciaSi saWiro

iyo, garkveuli drois ganmavlobaSi,

distanciis daWera, rac

gamoiwvevda Cvens kvlav daaxloebas.

Tamarma dablokvidan ramdenime

dReSi instagramze momwera: „aq

xar? Sen ra butia yofilxar, rogor

aRvniSnoT dabadebis dRe?”

aqedan gamomdinare, Tamaris iniciativa

iyo, Tavad momwera, rom

dabadebis dRe aRgveniSna. dabadebis

dRemde 2 Tve nanaxi ar myavda.

amas imiT vxsni, rom me misgan ar

mWirdeboda xorcieli kavSiri, me

SeiZleboda Tamari garkveuli periodi

ar menaxa, Tumca Cven mesenjerSi

vsaubrobdiT, am formatiT

kontaqti gvqonda, es CvenTvis

sruliad misaRebi iyo.

_ video, romelic Tamaris

dabadebis dRezea gadaRebuli,

sazogadoebam dadgmuladac ki

aRiqva. aseve unda aRvniSnoT is,

rom Tamari morcxvad iqceva, ra-

tom?

_ adamianis dasamarebisTvis arsebobs

ori xerxi: dumili da gamomJRavneba.

im dRes swored gamom-

JRavneba moxda. swored amiT aixsneba

Tamaris ganwyoba videoSi.

_ ras niSnavs gamoamJRavneT?

_ gamomJRavneba am SemTxvevaSi

ar niSnavs imas, rom Tamarma misi

cudi mxare gamoavlina. ubralod,

im dRes CemTvis kidev erTxel

dadasturda, rom is ar akeTebda

imas, rac mas namdvilad surda.

Cven amis Sesaxeb Riad visaubreT.

videoSi Tamars fanjris rafasTan

axlos hqonda mxari, razedac vu-

Txari, rom frTxilad yofiliyo.

amis Semdeg man xeliT mosinja

rafis wveri. es metyvelebs imaze,

rom Tamars aqcenti hqonda sxeulebriv

aRqmaze da ara _ gonebrivze.

mas Semdeg, rac Tamarma Tqva,

rom basri ar iyo fanjris rafa,

me vuTxrari, _ xom xedav, gifrTxildebian-meTqi.

am frazam sazogadoebaSi

aJiotaJi gamoiwvia, TiTqos

me specialurad vuTxari, sinamdvileSi,

sanam kafeSi davsxdebodiT,

imaze visaubreT, rom misma

Zmam manqanis borblebi Seumowma.

maSinac vuTxari, rom zrunaven

Senze. Sen visze zrunav-meTqi? da

araviszeo. Tu adamiani sakuTar

Tavze ar zrunavs, mas arc sxvaze

zrunvis survili uCndeba. Tamaris

es pasuxi CemTvis moulodneli

aRmoCnda. ubralod, im momentSi

misi am sityvebisTvis yuradReba

ar mimiqcevia. amave videosTan dakavSirebiT

aris kiTxvebi, _ ratom

vTxov Tamars videos Cemken mobrunebas?

mizanimarTuli xom ar

var? pasuxi martivia, me mas reCitativs

(ramdenime leqsis kombinacia)

vudgam.

gagrZeleba me-12 gv.

4 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


SaqaraSvilis saqmis gauxmaurebeli detalebi

19 wlis fexburTel giorgi

Tamar rostiaSvili

SaqaraSvilis 4 dRiT gauCinare-

577 10 07 06

ba, mcxeTaSi mdebare erT-erT

agarakze sufraze momxdar da-

pirispirebas ukavSirdeba. axalgazrda fexburTelis kvali

avtobanTan ikargeboda, sadac is sam megobarTan erTad

Tbilisidan gamoZaxebul taqsis elodeboda. maTan gaCerda

manqana, saidanac biWebi gadmovidnen da giorgis erT-erT

Tanamgzavrs fizikuri Seuracxyofa miayenes. dapirispireba

gaxda imis safuZveli, rom giorgi gaqceuliyo Tavis daRwe-

vis mizniT. rogorc Cans, es man ver moaxerxa. axalgazrda

fexburTelis gvami mdinare aragvSi aRmoaCines.

sagamoZiebo uwyebaSi miTiTebulia,

rom konfliqti gagrZelda

Tbilisi-senaki-leseliZis saavtomobilo

gzaze, mdinare aragvze

mdebare xidis siaxloves, ris Semdgomac

giorgi SaqaraSvilis kvali

daikarga, Tumca ar uTiTeben, iyo

Tu ara iq manqana da ramdeni. am

dromde ucnobia, hyavs Tu ara

gamoZiebas 19 wlis fexburTelis

gardacvalebaSi braldebuli an

braldebulebi? sajaro gancxadeba

amis Sesaxeb ar gakeTebula. am

etapze yvelaze saintereso aq eqspertizis

daskvna gaxlavT. ojaxis

moTxovniT, gamoZiebaSi CaerTo damoukidebeli

sasamarTlo eqspertizis

centri „veqtori”. paralelurad,

gamoZieba mediamac daiwyo

da Tavisi daskvna dado centr „empaTiis”

eqspertma galina kormuxinam.

„veqtorisa” da „empaTiis”

saeqsperto poziciebi ewinaaRmdegeba

erTmaneTs.

„qronika+~-s eqskluziurad esaubreba

„veqtoris” sasamarTlo-

samedicino eqsperti kaxa erisT-

avi:

_ batono kaxa, aq ikveTeba mTe-

li rigi sakiTxebi, romelic

winaaRmdegobaSi modis erTmaneT-

Tan. Tqven giorgi SaqaraSvilis

cxedarTan uSualo Sexeba gqon-

daT. swored Tqven, samxaraulis

eqspertebTan erTad, gamoikvlieT

cxedari da dadeT saeqsperto

daskvna.

_ Cven axalgazrda biWis cxedari

gamovikvlieT, meore mxares gvami

saerTod ar unaxavs da galina

karmuSina e. w. daskvnebi gamoitana

rusul enaze Targmnili eqspertizis

variantze dayrdnobiT.

_ magram wyalSi daxrCobis ver-

sias isini xom eTanxmebian?

_ diax, isinic eTanxmebian, rom

sikvdilis mizezi aris asfiqsia,

anu es pirovneba cocxali moxvda

wyalSi.

_ centr „empaTiis” eqspertis

poziciiT qala-fuZis motexilobis

damadasturebel niSnebad miiCneva

TvalbudeebSi sisxlCaqce-

va da Tavzurg-tvinis SemRvreva.

ratom aris es araswori?

_ zogierTma eqspertma miiCnia

orive TvalbudeSi sisxlCaqceva

qala-fuZis motexilobis utyuar

niSnad. erT-erT satelevizo gadacemaSi

am qalbatons dausves SekiTxva

qaTamaZesTan dakavSirebiT.

qaTamaZes aseve hqonda orive TvalbudeSi

sisxlCaqceva, magram ar

hqonda qala-fuZis motexiloba.

galina karmuSinas pasuxi

iyo, rom qaTamaZes erT

TvalbudeSi meti intensivobis

sisxlCaqceva

hqonda, vidre meore-

Sio da amitomac ar

aReniSneboda qala-fuZis

motexilobao. gesmiT?!

amas ityvis „pon-

Cikebis” gamyidvelic

ki. analogiurad, Tavzurgtvinis

siTxis Sem-

kaxa erisTavi

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

aleko gejaZe

`Tuki 1,5-2 dRe, 28-30 graduss temperaturaze

cxedari iqneboda haerze, iseTi lpobiTi

procesebi ganviTardeboda, rom gvamis

amocnobac ki dadgeboda kiTxvis niSnis qveS~

Rvrevaze, lpobiTi procesebis

dros, veranairad ver darCeba es

siTxe gamWvirvale da absoluturad

aranair mizezobriv kaSirSi ar

aris qala-fuZis motexilobasTan.

_ gvamuri gaSeSebis diagnozi

rogor dasva?

_ fotoebiT. axla me Tqven gekiTxebiT:

Tu ar SeexeT cxedars

xelebiT, saxis kunTebs da a. S.

rogor unda daadgino mxolod

fotoebiT, gaSeSebulia Tu ara?

_ mrecxavis xelTaTmanebze ras

gvetyviT?

_ adamiani rom moxvdeba wyal-

Si, xelebze ewyeba kanis SenaoWeba

da moTeTro feris xdeba. magali-

Tad, xSirad Tu dagibaniaT xeli

da auzSi xangrZlivad yofilxarT,

TiTebi odnav SenaoWebuli geqnebaT.

magram mrecxavis xelebze es

aSkarad aris gamokveTili. gvams

wyalSi xangrZlivi yofnis dros

uviTardeba „sikvdilis xelTaTmanebi”.

karmuSina ambobs, rom

„sikvdilis xelTaTmanebi” viTardeba

2-4 saaTSio, maSin rodesac

mis ganviTarebas sWirdeba ramdenime

kvira. am qalma vadebze saer-

Tod ar unda ilaparakos, sircxvilia

ubralod. „sikvdilis xel-

TaTmani” _ es aris Sors wasuli

procesi cxedris wyalSi yofnis,

ra drosac kanis zedapiruli SenaoWebuli

Sre xelTaTmaniviT Zvreba

sxeuls. me Tu ar mendoba, ai-

Ros amerikuli an evropuli sasamarTlo

eqspertizis saxelmZRvanelo.

SaqaraSvils es ar hqonia.

_ maSasadame, kategoriulad ar

eTanxmebiT meore mxaris versias,

rom daRupuli dRe-naxevari

cocxali iyo ugono da komato-

zur mdgomareobaSi?

_ aranairad. rogor daveTanxmo,

rodesac gvamTan vimuSave da faqti

saxeze gvaqvs? dRe-naxevari

anda ori dRe cxedari rodesac

aris maRal temperaturaze haerze,

iq viTardeba lpobiTi procesebi.

elementaruli, amocnobis problema

dadgeboda. analogiuri procesebi

ganviTardeboda SaqaraSvilis

SemTxvevaSic.

_ maSasadame, wyalSi rom moxv-

da, SaqaraSvili cocxali iyo?

_ bunebrivia! es dadgenilia

ukve mikroskopuli da makroskopuli

kvleviT. wyali met-naklebad

civia da aman lpobiTi procesebis

intensiur ganviTarebas xeli SeuSala.

amis gamo sikvdilis mizezi

dadginda, Torem sikvdilis mizezsac

ver daadgenda Cveni jgufi da

samxaraulis eqspertebi. SaqaraSvili

3-4 dRe wyalSi iyo, romlis

drosac lpobiTi procesebi ki

daiwyo, magram ara intensiuri, rom

sul gaenadgurebina qsovilebi.

„qronika+~-s gauxmaurebel detalebze

esaubreba sasamarTlo-

samedicino eqsperti da damoukidebeli

sasamarTlo eqspertiz-

is centr „veqtoris” direqtori

aleko gejaZe:

_ rodesac galina karmuSina

pirvelad gamovida teleeTerSi,

man aRniSna, rom mas gadauTargmnes

mTlianad pirveli eqspertiza, sadac

dadgenilia sikvdilis mizezi,

rogorc asfiqsia wyalSi daxrCobiT.

eqspertizis am „gadaTargmnili”

versiiT, qalbatoni galina

calsaxad ganmartavs, rom gvams ar

aReniSneboda lpobiTi cvlilebebi

da mxolod imaze dayrdnobiT,

rom SemTxvevis adgilze gvamis

daTvalierebisas eqspertma miuTi-

Ta gvamuri gaSeSebis arsebobaze

yvela jgufis kunTebSi, ganmarta,

rom radganac ar hqonda lpoba,

xolo gaSeSeba gamoxatuli iyo

yvela kunTSi, amitom man sikvdilis

xandazmulobad gansazRvra ara

umetes 36 saaTisa. faqtobrivad,

karmuSinam gverdi auara lpobiTi

procesebis arsebobas da ganaviTara

arakvalificiuri da arakompetenturi

msjeloba sikvdilis xandazmulobaze.

es ki realobisgan

yvelanairad mowyvetilia.

_ ki magram, gadaTargm-

nil dokumentSi xom weria,

rom giorgi SaqaraSvilis

cxedars lpobiTi procesebi

aReniSneboda?

_ ki batono, oqmSi calsaxad

weria, rom iyo lpobiTi procesebi.

amavdroulad, ara marto oqm-

Si, aramed uSualod samxaraulis

eqspertizis biuroSi cxedris gamokvlevisas,

iqac calsaxad dafiqsirebulia

lpobiTi procesebi yovelgvari

gvamuri gaSeSebis gareSe.

minda mogaxsenoT, rom bunebaSi ar

arsebobs, gansakuTrebiT saqarTvelos

cxeli zafxulis pirobebSi,

iseTi movlena, rom 4 dRis ganmavlobaSi

wyalSi yofnisas cxedars

SenarCunebuli hqonoda gvamuri

gaSeSeba. amis Taobaze yvela teleeTerSi

vsaubrobdi. Tundac inga

grigoliasTan gadacemaSi vTxove

mas, rom karmuSina daesvaT Cem pirdapir,

an Tundac CarTuliyo „empaTiis”

ofisidan, imitom rom ar

minda, araprofesionalizmze zurgs

ukan vilaparako. ukve gadacemis

msvlelobisas, bolo momentSi,

mec da telemayurebelsac „empaTiis”

xelmZRvanelma karmuSinas saxeliT

uari gangvicxada eTerSi

CarTvaze.

_ raze mianiSnebT, rom es qal-

batoni erideba TqvenTan erTad

Ria teleeTerSi gamosvlas?

_ simarTle giTxraT, amaze

calsaxad pasuxi ar maqvs. faqtia,

rom CemTan pirispir dajdoma ar

unda. me arc imas gamovricxav, rom

SecdomaSi Seiyvanes, rogorc qarTuli

enis armcodne anda sxva vi-

TarebasTan gvaqvs saqme, razedac

pasuxi ar gamaCnia. lpobas adgili

hqonda rogorc SemTxvevis adgilze

gvamis aRmoCenisas, aseve prozeqturaSic

misi gakveTis proces-

Si.

_ Tu karmuSinas versiis mixed-

viT, araumetes 36 saaTisa iyo

cxedari

wyalSi, gamodis, rom man-

amde, Tundac, dRe-naxevari xmel-

eTze iyo?

_ misi azriT, diax, asea, rac

sruli absurdia, rameTu, Tuki 1,5-

2 dRe, 28-30 graduss temperaturaze

cxedari iqneboda haerze,

iseTi lpobiTi procesebi ganvi-

Cven axalgazrda biWis cxedari gamovikvlieT,

meore mxares gvami saerTod ar unaxavs da

galina karmuSina e. w. daskvnebi gamoitana

rusul enaze Targmnili eqspertizis

variantze dayrdnobiT~

Tardeboda, rom gvamis amocnobac

ki dadgeboda kiTxvis niSnis qveS.

_ Tuki wyalSi moxvedrili ar

iyo SaqaraSvilis cxedari, maSin

sad iyo?

_ maTi versiiT, SaqaraSvili iyo

cocxali, anu drois am manZilze

imyofeboda ugono komatozur

mdgomareobaSi.

_ es saidan daaskvnes?

_ maTi poziciiT, imis gamo, rom

giorgi SaqaraSvils hqonda orive

Tvalbudis sisxlnaJRenTebi Tvalis

sklerebSi sisxlCaqceviT,

amavdroulad SemRvreuli hqonda

Tav-zurgtvinis siTxe, e. i. unda

hqonoda qala-fuZis motexiloba,

rac aseve sruli absurdia. jer

erTi, Tavis tvinis detaluri makroskopuli

da mikroskopuli (histologiuri)

gamokvlevebiT aranair

travmul dazianebas Tavis tvin-

Si sisxlCaqcevebis an sxva saxiT

gvams ar aReniSneboda. qala-fuZis

motexiloba rom yofiliyo, es ise-

Ti mZime travmaa, rom yvela SemTxvevaSi

sisxlCaqcevebsa da dazianebebs

adgili unda hqonoda Tavis

tvinSi. aseve absurdia centr „empaTiis”

versia, rom ar Cautarda

gvams kompiuteruli tomografia

qala-fuZis motexilobis dasadgenad.

rac arsebobs sasamarTlosamedicino

eqspertizis praqtika,

ara marto saqarTveloSi, aramed

postsabWoTa sivrcisa da dasavle-

Tis civilizebul qveynebSi, qalafuZis

motexilobis dasadgenad

kompiuteruli tomografiis saWiroeba

arsad ar dgas. vinaidan qala-fuZis

motexilobis diagnostirebisas

mTlianad xdeba Tavis tvinis

qalas sarqvelidan amoReba,

Semdeg e. w. magari garsi xeliT

scildeba qalas fuZes, Sedegad,

rogorc sarke, ise SiSvldeba

qalas fuZe. am dros Tundac mciredi

bzarovani motexilobac ki

aSkarad Cans.

_ giorgi SaqaraSvilis fexsacmeli

sad aris, ratom ar iZebne-

ba?

_ bunebrivia, aq kiTxvis niSnebi

mec maqvs _ ar vici, ratom ar aqvs.

wyalma moaZro, winda ecva-arecva...

ki batono, am nawilSi, veTanxmebi.

anda zeda maisuri Tu perangi, rac

ecva, yvela Rili ratom iyo Sekruli?

aqac SeiZleba bevri varaudi

iyos _ zog samoss iseTi qanCi

aqvs, rom Rili kargad Sedis da

myarad fiqsirdeba.

_ wyalSi rogor moxvda axal-

gazrda biWi?

_ ra viTarebaSi moxvda wyalSi

SaqaraSvili, amis dadgena gamoZiebis

prerogativaa. am etapze tardeba

meore komisiuri sasamarTlosamedicino

eqspertiza, romelmac

unda gasces pasuxi sxva kiTxvebTan

erTad, Tu ra viTarebaSi SeeZlo,

ra matravmirebeli faqtorebis

zegavleniT SeiZleboda mieRo

dazianebebi giorgi SaqaraSvils.

kerZod, SeeZlo Tu ara dazianebebi

mieRo, magaliTad, xididan wyalSi

CavardniT, bilikze dagorebiT,

an asfaltirebul zedapize

dacemiT d a. S. amavdrould, Sei-

Zleboda Tu ara dazianebebi mie-

Ro xelketis CartymiT, muStis,

qvis da a. S. swored am da sxva sakiTxebze

eqspertTa komisia muSaobs

da am kiTxvebs gaecema pasuxi

kategorul anda savaraudo formatSi.

me ar minda gavuswro movlenebs

Segnebulad, rameTu gamo-

Ziebas xeli ar SevuSaloT, radgan

aRniSnuli informacia savsebiT

dasaSvebia, winaswar gamoiyenon

braldebulebis advokatebma Tavisi

dacvis qveS myofi pirebis

sasargeblod.

5


am saqmeSi kidev erTi ritorikuli

kiTxvaa, _ Tamaris gardacvalebaSi

specsamsaxurebis

xeli xom ar urevia? sxvaTa Soris,

am versias, Tavdapirvelad, ba-

CaliaSvilebis ojaxis advokati,

mixeil ramiSvilic ar gamoricxavda.

zogadad, baCaliaSvilis

saqmem bevrs gaxmaurebuli teleseriali

„nikita” gaaxsena. Sei-

Zleba, realobasa da films Soris

analogiebi arcTu relevanturi

iyos, magram sanam gardacvalebis

zusti mizezi da aseve

motivi myari argumentebiT ar

dadgindeba, arsebobis ufleba

nebismier mosazrebas, maT Soris,

im versiasac eqneba, rom SesaZloa,

kvali specsamsaxurebamde

mivides.

„qronika+~-sTan saubrisas

specsamsaxurebis versias, pirdapir

Tu iribad, samxedro kontrdazvervis

yofili maRalCinosani,

usafrTxoebis eqsperti,

konstantine forCxiZec avi-

Tarebs da am konteqstSi miniSnebas

im periodze akeTebs, roca

Tamar baCaliaSvili, ramdenime

Tvis ganmavlobaSi, saswavleblad

safrangeTSi imyofeboda.

amasTan, Cveni respondenti

imasac gveubneba, rom frangul

da, zogadad, ganviTarebuli

qveynebis specsamsaxurebs adamianze

zemoqmedebis didi arsenali

aqvT da am konteqstSi qarTveli

specsamsaxureli maxvils

mxolod hipnozze ki ara, qimiur

zemoqmedebazec svams, anu konstantine

forCxiZis TqmiT, uSiSroebis

samsaxurebs xelewifebaT,

rom adamiani ramdenime dRis ganmavlobaSi

gaTiSon, anu daaprogramon

da Semdeg is gaakeTebinon,

rac surT.

sxvaTa Soris, forCxiZe arc

imas gamoricxavs, rom igive ba-

Cana lobJaniZec, romelic Tamaris

Seyvarebulad mogvevlina,

specsamsaxurebis zemoqmedebis

qveS iyos, Tumca Cveni respondentis

yvela msgavss gancxadebas

mxolod versiis saxe aqvs, anu

forCxiZe apriori rames ki ar

amtkicebs, aramed, konkretuli

qeisis fonze, specsamsaxurebis

muSaobis specifikas im doziT

gvacnobs, ra doziTac yvelafer

amaze sajarod saubaria dasaSvebi.

da kidev erTi: usafrTxoebis

eqsperti yuradsaRebad miiCnevs

im garemoebasac, rom „baCaliaSvilis

saqmeSi” saxelmwifo inspeqtoris

samsaxuri CaerTo:

„pirad cxovrebasTan dakavSirebuli

informaciis gasajaroebisas

safrTxe eqmneba piradi cx-

daaprogrames Tu ara Tamar

23 wlis programist Tamar ba-

giorgi abaSiZe

CaliaSvilis idumal gardacvaleba-

ze Zalian bevri iTqva da daiwera,

anu gaJRerda yvelanairi versia, Tumca, amis miuxedavad, trage-

diidan TiTqmis ori kviris Semdegac, ar arsebobs met-naklebad

amomwuravi pasuxi kiTxvaze, _ ra moxda? ise, sazogadoebis absolutur

umravlesobas Zalovani uwyebis mier gakeTebuli miniSnebis,

rom Tamarma SesaZloa, Tavi moikla, ar sjera. yovel SemTx-

vevaSi, mosaxleoba darwmunebulia, rom warmatebuli axalgazrda

qali an mokles, an, minimum, TviTmkvlelobamde miiyvanes, ma-

gram vin mokla an ratom miiyvana gogona TviTmkvlelobamde?

ovrebis xelSeuxeblobis uflebas,

miT ufro im SemTxvevaSi,

rodesac xdeba gansakuTrebuli

kategoriis (sensitiuri) monacemebis

gasajaroeba, romelsac

ganekuTvneba piris janmrTelobis

mdgomareobasTan, pirisTvis

aRkveTis RonisZiebis SefardebasTan,

msxverplad aRiarebasTan

da dazaralebulad cnobasTan

dakavSirebuli monacemebi.

saxelmwifo inspeqtoris samsaxurma

daiwyo Semowmeba mediasa-

SualebebiT gavrcelebuli dokumentebis

gamJRavnebis kanonierebisa

da Sesabamis dawesebulebebSi

maTi usafrTxoebisTvis

miRebuli zomebis Seswavlis mizniT.

Semowmebas daeqvemdebarebian

is pirebi an/da dawesebulebebi,

romlebsac SesaZloa, wvdoma

hqondaT zemoaRniSnul dokumentebze

da romelTa mxridan monacemTa

damuSaveba eqceva saxelmwifo

inspeqtoris samsaxuris

kompetenciaSi. Semowmeba warimarTeba

SemWidrovebul vadaSi”, _

vkiTxulobT saxelmwifo inspeqtoris

mier ramdenime dRis win

gavrcelebul gancxadebaSi.

mokled, rogor zemoqmedeben

specsamsaxurebi adamianebze? _

„qronika+~-s samxedro kontrdazvervis

yofili maRalCi-

nosani, konstantine forCxiZe

esaubra:

_ batono kote, pirdapir

gkiTxavT, 23 wlis programist

Tamar baCaliaSvilis idumal

gardacvalebaSi adgilobrivi

an, sulac, ucxouri specsamsax-

urebis xels xom ar xedavT?

_ pirdapir ver vityvi, rom am

saqmeSi specsamsaxurebis xeli

Cans, magram yvelaferi ise araa,

rogorc TviTmkvlelobas, ase

vTqvaT, Seefereba. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

ojaxisa da aseve baCaliaSvilis

megobris mier gasajaroebuli

masalebis mixedviT, am

saqmeSi bevri ram saeWvoa.

_ yvelaze saeWvod mainc, ra

geCvenebaT?

_ Zalovani uwyebebis moqmedeba.

_ anu?

_ Zalovani uwyebebis araprofesionalizme

rom aRaraferi

vTqvaT, is aJiotaJic saeWvoa,

romelic momxdarze Seiqmna. cxadia,

isic saeWvoa, rom warmatebulma

axalgazrda gogonam TiTqos

Tavi moikla. piradad me

fsiqologTan misi vizitebic

saeWvod meCveneba da Zalovani

uwyebebis araTanmimdevruli moqmedebebic

garkveul eWvs aCens.

erTi sityviT, Zalian bevri garemoebaa,

rac imaze miuTiTebs, rom

am tragediis versia srulad

Camoyalibebuli araa. arada,

klasikurad Tu mivudgebiT, versia

yalibdeba subieqtis subieqturi

mxarisa da obieqtis obieqturi

mxaris gansazRvriT. am

SemTxvevaSi ki naTlad ar Cans,

rom sagamoZiebo organoebi

swored am mimarTulebiT moqmedeben

da yvelaze martivi gza

aqvT arCeuli.

_ konkretulad?

_ TviTmkvlelobaze mianiSneben,

magram adamianebi Tavs ar

iklaven, Tu maT, minimum, garkveuli,

fsiqologiuri an fsiqikuri

problemebi ar aqvT.

_ sxvaTa Soris, gamoZiebam

Tavidanve imaze dasva maxvili,

rom Tamars fsiqologi hyavda

da amiT iribad mianiSna, rom mas

SesaZloa, fsiqologiuri prob-

lemebi hqonoda. Tumca Tqven,

rogorc profesional specsam-

saxurels, SegiZliaT Tu ara

imis Tqma, rom adamians garkveu-

li problemebi uSiSroebis samsaxurebma,

vTqvaT, ultrabger-

iTi zemoqmedebiT Seuqmnan?

_ ra Tqma unda, Tumca amaze

rom visaubroT, jer is unda

dadgindes, am tragediaSi specsamsaxurebis

kvali ikveTeba Tu

konstantine forCxiZe:

`yvelaferi ise

araa, rogorc

TviTmkvlelobas,

ase vTqvaT,

Seefereba~

ara.

_ es kvali rogor unda dadg-

indes?

_ erTaderTi, sadac specsamsaxurebis

kvali SeiZleba, gamoCndes,

Tamar baCliaSvilis warsulia.

_ konkretulad?

_ specsamsaxurebTan Sexeba

SesaZloa, ise hqonoda, rom amaze

Tavadac araferi scodnoda.

_ es rogor?

_ cnobilia, rom es gogona

sazRvargareT swavlobda.

_ diax, ramdenime semestri

safrangeTSi imyofeboda.

_ saerTod, specsamsaxurebi

xSirad pirdapir ki ara, „sxvisi

droSis” qveS moqmedeben.

_ „sxvisi droSis qveS mo-

qmedeba” ras niSnavs?

_ man, vinc specsamsaxurebis

muSobas icnobs, icis, rom es specsamsaxurebSi

Zalian cnobili

gamoTqmaa, anu savsebiT dasaSvebia,

rom esa Tu is specsamsaxuri

Tavis saqmianobas legendis qveS

axorcielebdes.

_ da es legenda ras SeiZle-

ba ukavSirdebodes?

_ ai, magaliTad, SeiZleba arsebobdes

rame SefuTuli organizacia,

romlis ukanac, sinamdvileSi,

specsamsaxuri idges da

`baCaliaSvilis saqmeSi~ specsamsaxurebis

versiis naklebad mjera, magram klasikurad ase

xdeba - adamians wvdoma SeiZleba,

gansakuTrebuli mniSvnelobis saidumlo

informaciaze hqondes~

Tavisi yoveldRiuri saqmianobiT

mas emsaxurebodes.

_ 23 wlis adamiani, romelsac

maincdamainc didi cxovrebiseu-

li gamocdileba ar gaaCnia,

specsamsaxurs risTvis SeiZle-

ba dasWirdes?

_ ubralod, SeiZleba, rigiTi

teqnikuri muSaki iyos da, weRandeli

Tqmisa ar iyos, arc icodes,

rom specsamsaxuris muSaobaSia

CaTreuli.

_ Tu adamianma ar icis, rom

specsamsaxuris muSaobaSia CaT-

reuli, maSin mas xom ar moici-

leben?

_ „baCaliaSvilis saqmeSi”

specsamsaxurebis versiis naklebad

mjera, magram klasikurad

ase xdeba _ adamians wvdoma Sei-

Zleba, gansakuTrebuli mniSvnelobis

saidumlo informaciaze

hqondes.

_ teqnikur muSakebs aseT in-

formaciaze xeli miuwvdebaT?

_ diax, teqnikuri muSakis

SesaZleblobas gaaCnia. mokled,

Tu adamians Sesabamisi IQ aqvs,

SesaZloa, specsamsaxurebis dainteresebis

obieqti advilad

gaxdes!

_ batono kote, Tu aris

SemTxvevebi, roca specsamsax-

uri adamianis gardacvalebas

gaiTamaSebs da am gziT saku-

Tari kadri, ase vTqvaT, TamaS-

idan gahyavs, sinamdvileSi ki

pirovneba janmrTeli da saRsa-

lamaTia?

_ ara! aseTi rameebi mxolod

filmebSi xdeba, Torem realoba-

Si specsamsaxuri e. w. fazas

yovelTvis asrulebs xolme. ise,

Tu „baCaliaSvilis saqmes” davubrundebiT,

momxdars specsamsaxurTan

kavSiri SeiZleba, arc

hqondes da tipuri kriminaluri

SemTxveva iyos!

_ ra Tqma unda, magram miTxariT,

specsamsaxurSi ra arsenali

arsebobs saimisod, rom ad-

amianze fsiqologiuri zewola

moaxdinos?

_ arsenali Zalian didia.

_ ufro konkretulad?

_ ai, magaliTad, pirovnebis

nebelobaze muSaoba, hipnozi aseve

qimiuri zemoqmedeba. mokled,

6 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


baCaliaSvili specsamsaxurebma?

aTasi saSualeba arsebobs, rac

pirovnebis fsiqologiur Tu

fsiqikur moSlas iwvevs. SeiZleba,

vinmes ucnaurad moeCvenos,

magram specsamsaxurs isic Seu-

Zlia, rom adamianis qvecnobierSi

iseTi programa, ase vTqvaT,

„daainstaliros”, romliTac

subieqtis marTva gacilebiT advili

gaxdeba!

_ weRan qimiuri zemoqmedeba

axseneT. damikonkreteT, spec-

samsaxuri obieqtze qimiurad

rogor zemoqmedebs?

_ yvelaferi imiT iwyeba, rom

specsamsaxuri aqtiur RonisZiebaSi

gamosayeneblad pirovnebis

SerCevas iwyebs da amis Semdeg

SerCeuli pirovnebis Sesabamisi

damuSaveba iwyeba, anu masze hipnoziT

Tu qimiuri saSualebebiT

zemoqmedeben: vTqvaT, adamians

ramdenime dRis ganmavlobaSi

TiSaven. siRrmeebSi ar Caval,

radgan es garkveuli saidumloa,

romlis gamJRavnebac rekomendebuli

araa.

_ adamianze zemoqmedebis

zemoxsenebul xerxebs mxolod

ganviTarebuli qveynebis spec-

samsaxurebi iyeneben?

_ diax, umetesad, ganviTarebuli

qveynebis. am mxriv gansaku-

TrebiT aRsaniSnavia dasavleT

evropuli qveynebi. ai, magali-

Tad, am kuTxiT franguli specsamsaxurebi

Zalian gamoirCeva.

sxvaTa Soris, swored franguli

specsamsaxurebis mieraa danergili

e. w. Ziebis sistema.

_ anu?

_ vgulisxmob specialur kompiuterul

programas, romelic

garkveul saxelebsa da sityvebze

reagirebs.

_ es rogor?

_ ai, magaliTad, Tu adamiani

sityva „prezidents” an „terorists”

axsenebs, es SesaZloa,

specsamsaxurebis yuradRebis

qveS moxvdes... franguli specsamsaxurebis

mier SemuSavebul

am meTods amerikelebic iyeneben,

britanelebic da, sxvaTa Soris,

germanelebic.

_ am programas rusuli an,

sulac, qarTuli specsamsaxure-

bic iyeneben?

_ diax. saqarTveloSi es sistema

„nacionalebis” dros dainerga.

revoluciamde ki, ZiriTadad,

sabWoTa periodis teqnikiTa da

teqnologiebiT vmuSaobdiT.

_ erTi sityviT, batono kon-

stantine, uSvebT albaTobas,

rom Tamar baCaliaSvili spec-

samsaxurebis yuradRebis qveS,

SesaZloa, safrangeTSi swavlis

dros moeqca?

_ amas ver vityvi, Tumca erTi

ram naTelia.

_ kerZod?

_ raki fsiqologi dasWirda,

SesaZloa, masze garkveuli saxis

fsiqologiuri zewola mimdinareobda.

sxvaTa Soris, fsiqologi

ambobs, rom mas janmrTelobis

problemebi ar hqonda, amitom

SesaZloa, zewolas ganicdida

garkveuli piris, pirovnebebis

an struqturebis mxridan.

`saxelmwifo inspeqtoris samsaxuri imitom Seiqmna, rom samoxeleo

danaSauli da gadacdomebi Seiswavlos, anu es, praqtikulad, generaluri

inspeqciaa. roca saqmeSi generaluri inspeqcia erTveba, e. i., es imas niSnavs,

rom gamoZieba ise ar midis, rogorc saWiroa, Tumca ar mgonia, rom Sedegi

am samsaxurma mainc dados~

cxadia, ar vambob, rom asi procentiT

ase iqneboda, magram

fsiqologi dasWirda, arada,

weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos, fsiqologi

ambobs, rom janmrTelobis

problemebi ar hqonda.

amasTan, sagulisxmoa, rom Tamar

baCaliaSvili SeSinebuli iyo.

_ amas ris safuZvelze

askvniT?

_ sxvanairad mamas eleqtroSokis

SeZenas ar sTxovda.

_ Tamari, rogorc irkveva, 40

kilograms iwonida, miuxedavad

amisa, gasaxdom Cais moixmarda,

anu, batono kote, SesaZloa,

davuSvaT, rom simsuqnis kompleqsi

23 wlis gogonas spec-

samsaxurebma „Caunerga”?

_ SesaZlebelia. saerTod, im

garemos Seswavlaa saWiro, sadac

mas yofna uxdeboda, Tumca am

SemTxvevaSi ojaxs ar vgulisxmob.

sxvaTa Soris, isic sainteresoa,

Tamaris natura safrangeT-

Si gamgzavrebamde da iqidan dabrunebis

Semdeg rogori iyo, anu

Seicvala Tu ara? zogadad, bevri

kriteriumia, romelic piradad

CemTvis, ucnobia da amitom

daskvnis gakeTebis saSualeba

ar maqvs, ra xdeba.

_ batono kote, gasagebia,

rom bevri ram ar viciT da amitom

daskvnis gakeTeba Wirs, ma-

gram im masalebis mixedviT, rac

arsebobs, ras fiqrobT _ ba-

CaliaSvilis sikvdili dana-

Saulia Tu ara?

_ diax, danaSaulia.

_ damisabuTeT, ratom?

_ adamiani, miT umetes, Tu is

daprogramebulia, Tavis mosaklavad

adgilis Zebnas ar daiwyebs.

_ amiT risi Tqma gindaT?

_ Tu adamians suicidi aqvs

gadawyvetili, maSin is nebismier

adgilas moiklavs Tavs! mokled,

yvelafer aqedan Cans, rom am

adamianze garkveuli fsiqologiuri

zemoqmedebis elementebi

iyo, Tumca am zemoqmedebas

piri axdenda, pirTa jgufi Tu

uwyebebi, es sagamoZiebo organoebma

unda gamoikvlion. magram

imas, rasac vuyureb, operatiuli

saqmianoba ar hqvia.

_ aba, ra hqvia?

_ analogiuri danaSauli maSin

rom momxdariyo, roca me uSiSroebis

organoebSi vmuSaobdi,

gamoZiebas mTeli marSrutis SeswavliT

daviwyebdiT.

_ Tamaris marSruti

gauCinarebis dResve Seiswavles

òperatiuli-samZebro saqmianobaSi mTeli

agenturul-operatiuli RonisZiebebi unda

CaerTos, anu Sesabamisi agenturul-

operatiuli informaciiT, SesaZloa,

videokamerebis Canawerebis gareSec dadgindes,

Tamari sad gadaadgildeboda~

da swored ase daadgina poli-

ciam, rom bolos e. w. Wkvianma

kameram is sofel xaiSTan daa-

fiqsira.

_ marSrutis Seswavla mxolod

videokameris Canawerebis Seswavla

ar aris. operatiuli-sam-

Zebro saqmianobaSi mTeli agenturul-operatiuli

RonisZiebebi

unda CaerTos, anu Sesabamisi

agenturul-operatiuli informaciiT,

SesaZloa, videokamerebis

Canawerebis gareSec dadgindes,

Tamari sad gadaadgildeboda.

_ batono kote, Tqveni gamoc-

dilebidan gamomdinare, ras

fiqrobT, Tamarze dakvirveba

didi xnis ganmavlobaSi mimdinareobda

da igive e. w. Seyvarebuli

Tu megobaric miugzavnes,

Tu yvelaferi sponta-

nurad moxda?

_ ara, yvelaferi didi xnis

zemoqmedebis Sedegia. zogadad,

zemoqmedeba erT dReSi SeuZlebelia,

anu adamianze zemoqmedeba

erTxel rom moaxdinos, igi

meore dResve fsiqologTan ar

gaiqceva.

_ e. i., uSvebT, rom baCana

lobJaniZe Tundac Tveebis Tu

wlebis winaT mizanmimarTulad

miugzavnes?

_ es kvlevis sagania, Tumca

yvelaferi dasaSvebia.

sxvaTa Soris, „mTavarze” baCana

lobJaniZisa da miSa ramiSvilis

gamosvla vnaxe da SemiZlia,

giTxraT, rom es biWi Zalian

araadekvaturia.

_ ratom?

_ es pirovneba specsamsaxurebisTvis

Zalian advilad mowyvladia

da imis daSvebac SeiZleba,

rom igi garkveuli zemoqmedebis

qveSaa.

_ amas ris safuZvelze am-

bobT?

_ jer erTi, Temidan Temaze

gadaxteba xolme.

_ ase „gadaxtomebiT” Zalian

bevri adamiani saubrobs.

_ ki batono, magram specsamsaxurebSi

specialurad aswavlian,

rom adamianma bevr rameze

ilaparakos, magram am laparakidan,

saerTo jamSi, veravin veraferi

unda gaigos. sxvaTa

Soris, imasac mivaqcie yuradReba,

rom es axalgazrda ymawvili

xSirad icinoda.

_ mere?

_ im dros, roca adamiani garkveul

kiTxvebze pasuxs gaurbis,

icinis xolme. am „Seyvarebuls”

ki saubrisas mudmivad eRimeba,

rac, minimum, araadekvaturia.

_ araadeqvaturi ratomaa?

_ es biWi, rogorc ambobs, Seyvarebulia

da didi travma gadaitana

_ klasikurad asea: roca

sayvareli adamiani am qveynidan

midis, miT umetes, gaurkvevel

viTarebaSi, cxadia, es Senzec

zemoqmedebs, magram am pirovnebas

es ar etyoba. mokled, Cemi,

rogorc profesionalis azriT,

araTu Zalian saintereso, aramed,

uSualod am pirovnebis kontaqtebic

Sesaswavlia. amas garda,

gamoZiebam yvela is kontaqtic

unda Seiswavlos, visTanac

uSualod Tamars hqonda urTierToba.

minimum, am kontaqtebis

telefonebi satelefono an-

ZebiT unda Semowmdes.

_ es gamoZiebas ras miscems?

_ xom SeiZleba, zustad im

momentSi, sadac bolos baCaliaSvili

imyofeboda, vinmes kvali

aRmoCndes?..

_ e. i., Tqven rom xelgewifebodeT,

batono kote, Tamar ba-

CaliaSvilis yvela nacnobs

SeamowmebdiT da SeiswavlidiT?

_ yovel SemTxvevaSi, axlo kontaqtebi

aucileblad Sesaswavlia.

_ da es kontaqtebi drois ra

intervalSi unda Semowmdes?

_ minimum, bolo erTi Tvis

vadaSi...

_ ise, Tqveni azriT, am saqme-

Si aSS-is federaluri biuros

CarTva rames Secvlis?

_ diax, bevr rames.

_ saxeldobr?

_ albaT, miaqcieT yuradReba,

rom baCaliaSvilis saqmis gamo-

ZiebaSi saxelmwifo inspeqtori

CaerTo.

_ diax, magram amaze yura-

dRebas ratom amaxvilebT?

_ iciT, gamoZiebaSi saxelmwifo

inspeqtoris CarTva ras

niSnavs?

_ ras?

_ saxelmwifo inspeqtoris

samsaxuri imitom Seiqmna, rom

samoxeleo danaSauli da gadacdomebi

Seiswavlos, anu es, praqtikulad,

generaluri inspeqciaa.

roca saqmeSi generaluri

inspeqcia erTveba, e. i., es imas

niSnavs, rom gamoZieba ise ar midis,

rogorc saWiroa, Tumca ar

mgonia, rom Sedegi am samsaxurma

mainc dados.

_ ratom?

_ saxelmwifo inspeqtoris

samsaxurs is struqturebi ar

aqvs, romliTac samZebro saqmianobas

ganaxorcielebs. ise, vimedovneb,

rom Zalovan uwyebaSi

Zveli kadrebi arian darCenilebi,

romlebic am saqmes bolomde

miiyvanen!

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

7


vin emuqreboda baCaliaSvilebis

„imisTvis, rom gamoZiebam maT-

giorgi sakaruli

Tvis sasurveli versia daajeros

555 42 42 81

sazogadoebas, gardacvlilis piradi

da personaluri informacia

gaasajarova kidec”, _ ganacxada advokatma giorgi fan-

culaiam Tamar baCaliaSvilis saqmis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-sTan.

gasul kviras saqarTvelos Si-

nagan saqmeTa saministrom Tamar

„baCaliaSvilis saqmeze” Sualeduri

angariSi gamoaqveyna da sui-

cidze migvaniSna.

uwyebaSi amboben, rom gauCi-

narebamde erTi TviT adre baC-

aliaSvilma „guglis” saZiebo sistemaSi

Cawera sityvebi „saukeTe-

so gzebi TviTmkvlelobisTvis”

da am Temaze informacias gaec-

no. Sss-s Sualeduri angariSis miuxedavad,

ojaxsa da sazogadoebis

garkveul nawils TviTmkv-

lelobis versiis ar sjera.

ratom cdilobs gamoZieba saqmis

TviTmkvlelobis versiis gam-

yarebas? ra paralelebi SeiZleba

gavavloT „cianidis saqmesTan”?

ra roli aqvs „baCaliaSvilis

saqmeSi” sazogadoebis CarTulo-

bas?

am da sxva saintereso detale-

bze „qronika+~-is kiTxvebs advokati

giorgi fanculaia pasux-

obs:

_ batono giorgi, kriminaluri

qronikis mimarT sazogadoebis

daintereseba yovelTvis maRalia,

risi dasturic aris SaqaraSvil-

isa da baCaliaSvilis saqmeebi _

or TveSi ori saeWvo, bundovani

gardacvalebis SemTxveva... Saqara-

Svilis SemTxvevaSi gamoZieba da-

dasturebiT ambobs, rom mkvleloba

moxda, baCaliaSvilze TviT-

mkvlelobis versias ganixilavs.

TqvenTvis, rogorc iuristisTvis,

sajarod gaJRerebuli Cvenebe-

bi, saqmis masalebis detalebi Tu

prokuraturis ganmartebebi dam-

ajerebelia? Tu ara, maSin konkretulad

ra iwvevs TqvenSi kiTx-

vebs, gnebavT, eWvebsac?

_ pirvel rigSi, orive gardacvlilis

ojaxs minda, mivusamZimro.

rac Seexeba uSualod samarTlebriv

nawils, is, rom sazogadoebis

ndobis xarisxi arc ise maRalia

gamoZiebis mimarT, es yvelaze

martivad me mesmis, radgan profesiidan

gamomdinare miwevs yoveldRiuri

Sexeba sagamoZiebo sistemebTan.

ramdenime magaliTs moviyvan,

romelic ufro naTlad dagvanaxvebs

bolos momxdar am or

faqts:

2014 wels „zurab Jvanias saqmeze”

vmuSaobdi, sadac dakavebuli

iyo mTavari eqsperti levan CaCua.

igi samive instanciaSi gavamarTleT.

prokuratura brifingebs

marTavda da sazogadoebas mxolod

misTvis sasurvel mtkicebulebas

acnobda, anu mxolod erTi

mxridan danaxuls. Semdeg viyavi

„cianidis saqmis” advokati. am Sem-

TxvevaSic zustad igive xdeboda.

dekanozis mimarT mxolod fragmentulad

amoWril mtkicebulebebs

asajaroebdnen, rom am

saqmeSic sazogadoebis azri Camoyalibebuliyo

im versiiT, romelic

maT surdaT. amis Semdgom mqonda

„basianis specoperaciis saqme”,

„omega jgufisa” da sxva bevri gaxmaurebuli

saqme, romlis CamoTv-

lac Sors wagviyvans. yvela saqmeze

prokuratura im mtkicebulebebs

asajaroebda, romelic maT sasurvel

versias gaamyarebda da am

dros saqmeSi ido sxva mtkicebulebac,

romelic ar gasajarovda.

_ CagekiTxebiT, „SaqaraSvilis

saqmezec” igive xdeba?

_ analogiur mocemulobas vxedav

„SaqaraSvilis saqmezec”. aq

aris dazaralebulis mxare, rac,

jerjerobiT, „baCaliaSvilis saqmeze”

ar ikveTeba. „SaqaraSvilis

saqmeze” braldebulis advokatebs

gadaecemodaT mtkicebulebebi,

romelsac sazogadoeba xedavda

da, Sesabamisad, daskvnebis gamotanis

saSualebac gvqonda. vxedavT,

rom prokuratura da policia mxolod

erTi mxaris mtkicebulebebs

asajaroebs da rom ara advokatebis

mier gamotanili mtkicebulebebi,

„SaqaraSvilis saqme-

Sic” ki sasurvel versias gagvacnobdnen.

ar SemiZlia ar aRvniSno,

advokatebis, Jurnalistebisa da

kerZod Tqveni gazeTis udidesi

roli am saqmesTan dakavSirebiT.

mas Semdeg, rac advokatebma da Jurnalistebma

wamowies „SaqaraSvilis

saqme”, policiam mxolod mere

daiwyo sagamoZiebo moqmedebebis

Catareba. rigi sagamoZiebo moqmedebebi

Caatares sami kvirisa da

erTi Tvis Semdeg. rom ara Jurnalisturi,

advokaturi sagamoZiebo

Catarebuli moqmedebebi, es mxolod

cali mxridan danaxuli

versia iqneboda. yvela zemoT

CamoTvlili magaliTi sazogadoebaSi

iwvevs undoblobas, Tundac

„baCaliaSvilis saqmeSic”.

_ gamoZieba cdilobs, TviTmkvlelobis

versia gaamyaros, Tum-

ca ojaxsa da sazogadoebis gark-

veul nawils kategoriulad ar

sjera imis, rom Tamar baCaliaSvilma

Tavi moikla. im informa-

ciebis gaTvaliswinebiT, rac

dRes aris cnobili, Tqven gamor-

icxavT Tu ara TviTmkvlelobis

versias?

_ yvelafris miuxedavad, imis

albaTobas mainc vitoveb, rom Tamar

baCaliaSvils SesaZloa, Tavi

moekla, magram roca sagamoZiebo

organoebi mxolod am versiis

gasaRebaze muSaobs, sazogadoebas

dajereba gauWirdeba. es versia

realuric rom iyos, sazogadoebas

ndoba aqvs dakarguli sagamo-

Ziebo sistemis mimarT. imisTvis,

rom sazogadoebas daejerebina

Tamar baCaliaSvilis TviTmkvlelobis

versia, prokuraturam

iseTi mtkicebulebebic ki gaasajarova,

romelic pirad da personalur

informacias Seicavs. piradi

da personaluri informaciis

gasajaroeba uSualod im adamianis

nebis Tanxmobis gareSe dana-

Saulia. SeiZleba, mkiTxvels azri

gauCndes, rom gardacvlili adamiani

rogor miscemda nebarTvaso?

magram am adamianis ojaxis wevrebidan

deda an mama aucileblad

aris dazaralebulis uflebamonacvled

cnobili. Sesabamisad,

giorgi

fanculaia:

`gamoZieba

mxolod

TviTmkvlelobis

versiis

gasaRebaze

muSaobs~

gardacvlili adamianis uflebebi

gadadis misi mSoblidan erT-er-

Tze, dedaze an mamaze, romelsac

aseve hyavs advokati mixeil ramiSvili.

aqedan gamomdinare, sainteresoa,

gardacvlili dazaralebuli

uflebamonacvlisgan vinmem

aiRo amis nebarTva? meeWveba rom

amis nebarTva gacemuli iyos da imisTvis,

rom gamoZiebam maTTvis

sasurveli versia daajeros sazogadoebas,

gardacvlilis pirad

da personalur informacias asajaroebs.

sxva dros, roca advokatebs,

Jurnalistebs gvinda raRaca

informacia gavigoT, pasuxad

vRebulobT, rom pirad da personalur

informacias ver gascemen da

ìmisTvis, rom sazogadoebas daejerebina Tamar

baCaliaSvilis TviTmkvlelobis versia,

prokuraturam iseTi mtkicebulebebic ki

gaasajarova, romelic pirad da personalur

informacias Seicavs. piradi da personaluri

informaciis gasajaroeba uSualod im

adamianis nebis Tanxmobis gareSe danaSaulia.

SeiZleba, mkiTxvels azri gauCndes, rom

gardacvlili adamiani rogor miscemda

nebarTvaso? magram am adamianis ojaxis

wevrebidan deda an mama aucileblad aris

dazaralebulis uflebamonacvled cnobili.

Sesabamisad, gardacvlili adamianis uflebebi

gadadis misi mSoblidan erT-erTze~

gaasajaroeben mtkicebulebebs da

am SemTxvevaSi asajaroeben absoluturad

yvelafers!

_ Tamar baCaliaSvilis ojaxi

saubrobs, rom maTi misamarTiT

muqaris Semcveli satelefono

zarebi ganxorcielda. es gare-

moeba ra tipis eWvebs badebs?

_ Tu gamoZieba pirad da personalur

informaciasac ki asajaroebs,

prokuraturam ratom ar

gaasajarova is adamianebi, romlebic

muqaris Semcvel zarebs axorcielebdnen

mSoblebis mimarT?!

swored esaa ormagi standarti da

amitomac gvaqvs ndobis dabali

xarisxi gamoZiebis mimarT. me,

rogorc advokats, miWirs mtkicebulebebis

gareSe saubari da

iqidan gamomdinare, rom am saqmes

ar vicnob, Teoriul albaTobas

vitoveb, rom SesaZloa, am adamianma

marTla moikla Tavi... magram

TviTon sagamoZiebo sistema iwvevs

eWvebs, rom es versia, naklebad realuria.

davuSvaT, TviTmkvlelobaa.

sisxlis samarTlis kanonmdeblobaSi

aris aseTi muxli: adamianis

TviTmkvlelobamde miyvana.

Tu prokuratura ambobs, rom adamianma

Tavi moikla, maSin ratom

ar iZieben imas, Tu visi moqmedebebis

Sedegad gadawyvita am adamianma

Tavis mokvla? aqedan gamomdinare,

am SemTxvevaSic ki, dana-

Saulamde gavdivarT. magaliTad,

SesaZloa, rame SantaJi, muqara

iyos am adamianis mimarT, ris gamoc

man Tavi moikla. niSnis mogebiT

saubroben imaze, rom Tamar

baCaliaSvilis anabarze garkveuli

raodenobis Tanxa idoo, Tan manqanaSi

werilia napovni „anabarze

Tanxaa, gamoiyeneT”. am suraTis

danaxva sapirispirodac SeiZleba.

_ konkretulad?

_ SeiZleba, gogonam raRac informacia

gaigo, ris gamoc mas

Teoriulad Tanxa gadauxades da

baCaliaSvili ganicdida Seviwroebas

an muqaras im adaminisgan, vinc

es Tanxa gadauxada. Tu ar ici,

adamians Tanxa saidan gauCnda da

mere Tavi moikla, maSin xom ar gvaqvs

SantaJTan da muqarasTan saqme

an TviTmkvlelobamde miyvanis

mdgomareobamde? erTi mxriv, ar

unda gamovricxoT mkvleloba, magram

mkvlelobis alternativad

unda ganvixiloT TviTmkvlelobac

da TviTmkvlelobamde miyvanis

mcdelobac, romelic dana-

Saulia.

_ kidev ra aCens kiTxvis niS-

nebs gamoZiebis mimarT?

_ magaliTad, „tv pirvelze” iyo

gadacema, sadac Tqves, rom miagnes

im kamerebs, romelic Tamar ba-

CaliaSvilis gadaadgilebas asaxavda.

amis Semdgom wavidnen da amoi-

Res es kamerebi. CanawerebiT irkve-

8 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


ojaxs satelefono zarebiT?

va, rom baCaliaSvili pirdapir

TeTri wyaros mimarTulebiT ar

wasula. aseve aRsaniSnavia isic,

rom Tqveni gazeTis redaqtorma

garkveuli informaciebi moiZia,

maT Soris, im adamianTan dakav-

SirebiT, romelic acxadebs, rom

baCaliaSvilis Seyvarebulia, amis

Semdgom am mimarTulebiT sagamo-

Ziebo moqmedebebi Caatares. aqedan

gamomdinare, viRebT mocemulobas,

rom gamoZiebas sWirdeba, televiziebisgan

gaigos informacia kamerebis

Canawerebis Sesaxeb da amis

Semdeg daiwyos Canawerebis amoReba

da adamianis gadaadgilebis

marSrutis Seswavla, _ nuTu, gamo-

Zieba televizias unda elodebodes?!

e. i. gamoZieba, nebsiT Tu

uneblieT, acdenilia realur simwvaves.

gamixarda, rom mTavari

prokurori Sexvda ojaxs, Tumca

am SexvedrisTvis aucilebeli iyo,

rom ojaxs aqcia gaemarTa an Sim-

Siloba gamoecxadebina. sanam ojaxma

yvela kritikuli zoma ar miiRo,

manamde ratom ar mimarTa sagamoZiebo

uwyebam werilobiT FBIis

(amerikis Ziebis federaluri biuro)?

Tu gamoZieba darwmunebulia

sakuTar obieqturobaSi da

FBI ityvis, rom diax, namdvilad is

versiaa, rasac aqauri gamoZieba ambobso,

aseT SemTxvevaSi gamoiZieba

xom Semoubrundeba sazogadoebas

da etyvis, rom marTali xar da

tyuilad mcxebdi Cirqso. gamoZiebis

interesSi xom unda Sediodes

simarTlis damtkiceba? ai, aseTi

moqmedebebi badebs kiTxvis niSnebs,

romelic xSirad marTldeba. magaliTad,

zaza saraliZis SemTxvevaSi

sistemam aRiara Secdoma da

realuri damnaSave daiWira, magram

sazogadoeba rom ar gamosuliyo

rusTavelis gamzirze da aTasobiT

adamiani ar damdgariyo saraliZis

gverdiT, realuri damnaSave dRes

Tavisuflad ivlida. imas ki ar

vambob, rom yvela saqme apriori

gayalbebulia, magram aseTi

mocemulobebi Zalian bevr kiTxvas

badebs, miT umetes, roca Jurnalisti

aswrebs gamoZiebas.

_ es gamoZiebis arakvalifici-

urobaa Tu mizanmimarTuli

qmedeba?

_ saubari daviwye imiT, rom sagamoZiebo

uwyebebTan yoveldRiuri

komunikacia maqvs, profesiiT

iuristi var da saadvokato saqmianobas

vewevi. xazgasmiT minda

aRvniSno, rom yvela gamomZiebeli

sistemidan gasaSvebi ar aris.

Zalian bevri gamomZiebelia, visac

namdvilad uyvars Tavisi profesia

da iseT minimalur xelfasze

aTenebs Rameebs, rom yvelas erT

qvabSi namdvilad ver movxarSavT.

vfiqrob, am kargi gamomZieblebis

cud policielebTan erTd moxsenieba

arasworia. bevri SemTxveva

mqonia, roca marTla obieqturad

gamouZiebiaT saqmeebi, magram vinaidan,

zogadad, sistema Zalian

mowyvladia, iq mesame pirebi erevian.

roca aseTi mniSvnelovani

saqmea, sistemam SeiZleba iseT gamomZiebels

Caabaros saqme, romelic

maTTvis sasurvel versias

dadebs an SeiZleba iseTma gamomZiebelma

aiRos saqme, romelsac naklebi

gamocdileba aRmoaCndes an

iseTi gamomZiebeli dainiSnos,

romlis Semosavalic mxolod sam-

ànalogiur mocemulobas vxedav `SaqaraSvilis saqmezec~. aq aris

dazaralebulis mxare, rac, jerjerobiT, `baCaliaSvilis saqmeze~ ar ikveTeba.

`SaqaraSvilis saqmeze~ braldebulis advokatebs gadaecemodaT mtkicebulebebi,

romelsac sazogadoeba xedavda da, Sesabamisad, daskvnebis gamotanis

saSualebac gvqonda. vxedavT, rom prokuratura da policia mxolod erTi

mxaris mtkicebulebebs asajaroebs da rom ara advokatebis mier gamotanili

mtkicebulebebi, `SaqaraSvilis saqmeSic~ ki sasurvel versias gagvacnobdnen~

saxurzea damokidebuli da daemuqron

misi dakargviT. aseT rezonansul

saqmeebze yovelTvis

arCeven sust rgolebs. ramdenjer

gvinaxavs, rom gamoZieba dauwyia

konkretul gamomZiebels da Semdeg

igive saqme sxvisTvis gadauciaT.

„baCaliaSvilis saqmec” sxva

sagamoZiebo struqturam daiwyo

da sxvas gadaeca imis gamo, rom sazogadoebisgan

didi rezonansi

mohyva, radgan aranairi sagamoZiebo

moqmedebebi ar tardeboda.

rodesac konkretul sisxlis samarTlis

saqmeze maRali sazogadoebrivi

interesia, mxolod amis

Semdeg sagamoZiebo uwyebebi iZulebuli

arian, qmediTi nabijebi

gadadgan. piradad CemTvis Zalian

mniSvnelovania erTi SekiTxva: vin

emuqreboda satelefono zarebiT

am ojaxs, rom gaCerebuliyvnen?

rodesac gvinda, rom gavarkvioT

am saqmeSi aris Tu ara mesame piris

daintereseba, mniSvnelovania gavigoT,

Tu vin axorcielebda zewolas

ojaxis mimarT? swored aseTi

moqmedebebi iwvevs dabali ndobis

xarisxs da amitomac aris bevri

kiTxvis niSani.

_ pirdapir gkiTxavT, sistema

unda daingres?

_ sistemis Secvla ar niSnavs,

rom yvela policieli Tu gamomZiebeli

saxlSi gasaSvebia. pirvel

rigSi, damoukideblobis xarisxia

asamaRlebeli, anu kanonmdeblobis

doneze gamomZieblisa da policiis,

rom mesame pirebis Careva samarTlebrivad

ufro garTuldes.

meore: unda gavmijnoT adamianis

uflebebis damrRvevi policielebi

da isini unda daviTxovoT. unda

wavaxalisoT is policielebi, romlebic

uangarod emsaxurebian

sistemas. es reforma unda iyos

`SeiZleba, gogonam raRac informacia gaigo,

ris gamoc mas Teoriulad Tanxa gadauxades

da baCaliaSvili ganicdida Seviwroebas an

muqaras im adaminisgan, vinc es Tanxa

gadauxada. Tu ar ici, adamians Tanxa saidan

gauCnda da mere Tavi moikla, maSin xom ar

gvaqvs SantaJTan da muqarasTan saqme an

TviTmkvlelobamde miyvanis mdgomareobamde?~

faqizi da frTxili, radgan ukiduresobaSi

ar gadavvardeT.

_ arsebuli viTareba gaZlevT

Tu ara imis varaudis safuZvels,

rom SesaZloa, orive saqme Taroze

Semodon da simarTle bolomde

mainc ver gairkves, pasuxgaucemeli

darCes kiTxvebic da dausje-

li _ konkretuli damnaSaveebi?

_ me vicavdi „omega jgufs”, sadac

dazaralebuli mxare viyaviT.

uamravi mtkicebuleba SevitaneT

prokuraturaSi. Sesabamisad, prokuraturis

neba rom yofiliyo,

Zalian bevr maRalCinosans miscemdnen

pasuxisgebaSi, magram eg saqmec

Taroze Semodes da manam, sanam

politikuri neba ar iqneba,

aRniSnul saqmeze aravis wauyuneben

brals. raRac doneze SeiZleba

paraleli gavavloT am saqmesa

da „baCaliaSvilis saqmesTan” mimarTebiT,

magram „baCaliaSvilis

saqmeSi” yvelaferi ufro damokidebulia

sazogadoebis aqtiurobaze.

rac Seexeba „SaqaraSvilis

saqmes”, vfiqrob, uaxloes period-

Si ramdenime adamians brals wauyeneben,

magram bralis wayeneba xom

ar niSnavs, rom apriori gamamtyunebeli

ganaCeni gamodis. gamamtyunebeli

ganaCeni rom gamovides,

aucilebelia iyos utyuari mtkicebulebebi

da mowmeebma ki oTxjer-xuTjer

Secvales Cvenebebi.

SeiZleba brali wauyenos prokuraturam,

magram roca mowmeebs 4-

5-jer aqvT Secvlili Cvenebi, ase-

Ti mtkicebulebebi sasamarTlos

ar eyofa. bralic Tu wauyenes,

esec sazogadoebis gamarjveba

iqneba, radgan dRes ra sagamoZiebo

moqmedebebic Catarda, aman Sei-

Zleba realuri damnaSave pirebi

gamokveTos. gamoZiebis naxevarze

meti Catarda mas Semdeg, rac Jurnalistebma,

maT Soris, qalbatonma

eliso kilaZem da advokatebma

aseTi rezonansi miveciT am

saqmes da konkretuli moqmedebebi

gamovkveTeT, magram bevrad

gaWirdeba igives gakeTeba „ba-

CaliaSvilis saqmis” Sesaxeb.

_ ratom?

_ imitom, rom sazogadoebas,

Jurnalistebsa da advokatebs ar

aqvT saSualeba, mtkicebulebebi

Seiswavlon, risi saSualebac iyo

„SaqaraSvilis saqmeze”. „baCaliaSvilis

saqmeze” mxare ar aris jerjerobiT

gamokveTili, Sesabamisad,

saqmis masalebi aravis gadaecema

da Zalian gaWirdeba sazogadoebis

Careva.

_ „baCaliaSvilis saqmesTan”

dakavSirebiT Sss-m informacia

gamoaqveyna, rom gauCinarebis wina

dRes is „guglSi” TviTmkvlelobis

gzebs eZebda. am nawilSi minda

gavixseno „cianidis saqme”, sadac

Tqven dekanoz mamalaZis ad-

vokati xarT. mamalaZis _ saqmeSic

aseve msgavsi garemoeba ikveTeba.

gamoZiebis Tanaxmad, isic „gugl-

Si” eZebda cianids. ras cdilobs

gamoZieba?

_ dekanozi mamalaZe ambobs,

Sorena TeTruaSvilma sTxova,

cianidi eSova. damainteresa, ra

mizniT sWirdebodao, radgan Sorenas

uTqvams, xatebze oqros gamosakveTad

mindao. amitom dagugla

dekanoz mamalaZem, marTla Sesa-

Zlebeli iyo Tu ara cianidis am

mizniT gamoyeneba. dagugvlis Sedegad

ki aRmoCnda, rom cianidis

gamoyeneba SeiZleba rogorc

mowamvlis mizniT, aseve _ oqros

gamosakveTad. nebismierma adamianma

SeiZleba informaciis miRebis

mizniT daguglos cianidic da

TviTmkvlelobis gzebic. es ar Sei-

Zleba gaxdes imis mtkicebuleba,

rom Tamar baCaliaSvili Tavs

iklavda, aseve ar SeiZleba es iyos

imis mtkicebuleba, rom dekanozs

vinmes mosawamlad sWirdeboda

cianidi. es ar aris is mtkicebuleba,

rom sasamarTloSi gamosadegari

iyos. ubralod, gamoZieba

cdilobs, maTTvis sasurveli versia

sazogadoebas Tavs moaxvios.

_ rogoria amjerad mama gior-

gis janmrTelobis mdgomareoba?

_ mama giorgisTan ramdenime

dRis win viyavi. rac Seexeba mis

janmrTelobis mdgomreobas, sakaceze

wevs, xeli da fexi gaCerebuli

aqvs da ukve kunTis ganleva

ewyeba imis gamo, rom mkurnaloba

ver tardeba. sasamarTlom sasjelis

gadavadebaze uari im motiviT

Tqva, rom cixeSi mkurnalobis

saSualeba arsebobso. piriqiT aRmoCnda.

_ ramdeni xania, rac aseT

mdgomreobaSia?

_ weliwadi da 7 Tvea, rac

sakaceze wevs, anu etliTac ver

gadaadgildeba.

_ ra giTxraT, raze isaubreT,

raime Tu dagabaraT?

_ mxolod ojaxis wevrebis ambebi

ainteresebda. Sevdivar xolme

imis gamo, rame iseTi problema xom

ar aqvs, rom davexmaro.

_ sasuliero pirebidan vinme

naxulobs?

_ sasuliero pirebidan vinc

midioda, meufe petresa da mama

andrias mRvdelmsaxureba SeuCeres

da sxvebi didad arc manamde

iklavdnen Tavs SesvliT da axla

xom _ saerTod.

_ gasagebia, rom rTuli janmrTelobis

mdgomareoba aqvs, ma-

gram rogoria misi ganwyoba?

_ oTxi weli xdeba, rac dakavebulia,

aqedan weliwad-naxevaria,

xel-fexi gaCerebuli aqvs da sakaceze

wevs. miuxedavad amisa, sakmaod

optimisturad aris ganwyobili.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

9


`qarTulma ocnebam~ kriminalTan

23 wlis Tamar baCaliaSvilis

nene injgia

burusiT moculi gardacvalebis

591 71 39 98

Sesaxeb dRiTi dRe meti kiTxvis

niSani Cndeba. imis nacvlad, rom

sagamoZiebo uwyebebma kiTxvebze upasuxon, ufro bundovanebas

sZenen saqmes. pirvelive dReebidan gamoZieba cdilobs, TviTmkvlelobis

versiaze imuSaos, gasul kviras ki Sinagan saqme-

Ta saministrom Tamar baCaliaSvilis leptopis eqspertizis

Sesaxeb informacia gaavrcela.

eqspertizis daskvnisa da daTvalierebis

oqmis mixedviT, 2020

wlis 17 ivliss, gauCinarebis wina

dRes, 18:36 saaTze, Tamar baCaliaSvili

Sesulia „feisbuqis” gverdis

daxmarebis ganyofilebaSi, sadac

miTiTebuli aris gverdis saTauri:

What will happen to my Facebook

account if I pass away?, rac qarTulad

niSnavs: ra mouva Cems feisbuqis

angariSs, Tu me gardavicvlebi?

2020 wlis 18 ivniss, gauCinarebamde

erTi TviT adre, 00:16:37

saaTze, Tamar baCaliaSvilis mier

guglis saZiebo sistemaSi Cawerilia

sityvebi: best ways for suicide, rac

qarTulad niSnavs: saukeTeso gzebi

TviTmkvlelobisTvis.

imave dRis 00:15:51 saaTze igi

Sesulia sainformacio vebgverd

vikipediaze _ gverdze miwerili

aqvs saTauri: Suicide methods – Wikipedia,

rac qarTulad niSnavs: TviTmkvlelobis

meTodebi. aRniSnuli

linkis gaxsnis Sedegad ixsneba vikipediis

statia saTauriT: Suicide

methods, sadac mocemulia inglisur

enaze statia, romelSic aRwerilia

TviTmkvlelobis sxvadasxva

meTodi.

daskvnis mixedviT, vebgverdebze

Sesvlis istoriidan da 2020

wlis 22 ivliss Catarebuli Tamar

baCaliaSvilis avtomanqanis daTvalierebis

oqmidan irkveva, rom avtomanqanaSi

aRmoCenili medikamentebi

da 2020 wlis 17 ivliss,

gauCinarebis wina dRes, GOOGLEis

saZiebo sistemaSi mis mier mo-

Ziebuli medikamentebis nawili

emTxveva erTmaneTs.

mocemuli daskvna kidev ufro

amyarebs TviTmkvlelobis versias,

Tumca saqmeSi Cndeba baCana lob-

JaniZe, romelic acxadebs, rom igi

Tamar baCaliaSvilis Seyvarebulia

da romlis TqmiTac is damoukidebel

gamoZiebas awarmoebs. misi pirovnebisa

da gaJRerebuli versiebis

irgvlivac uamravi kiTxvis niSani

Cndeba. ratom cdilobs gamo-

Zieba TviTmkvlelobis versiis gamyarebas?

ra xazs aviTarebs moulodnelad

gamoCenili baCana lob-

JaniZe? ras Secvlis saqmeSi Ziebis

federaluri biuros CarTva?

am Temebis Sesaxeb „qronika+~

„lelo saqarTvelosTvis” wevr,

iurist levan samuSias esaubra:

_ batono levan, baCaliaSvilis

gardacvalebis Sesaxeb gamoZiebas

TviTmkvlelobis mimarTulebiT

mihyavda saqme. baCaliaSvilis

cxedris povnidan ramdenime dRe-

Si Sinagan saqmeTa saministroSi

gamarTul brifingze xazgasmiT

aRiniSna, rom mas fsiqologi hyav-

da. raze metyvelebs es viTareba

da ratom cdilobs gamoZieba am

versiaze aqcentis gakeTebas?

_ pirvel rigSi, unda aRiniSnos,

rom 24 saaTic ki ar iyo gasuli,

rac Tamar baCaliaSvilis cxedari

ipoves da gamoZiebam ukve SemogvTavaza

versia, marcvalic Caagdo,

rom igi sazogadoebaSi gaRvivebuliyo

da azri formirebuliyo,

rom baCaliaSvili fsiqologTan

dadioda da saqme TviTmkvlelobisken

mimarTa. ramdenime dRis win

ki Sinagan saqmeTa saministrom

gancxadeba gaakeTa, sadac naTqvami

iyo, rom Tamar baCaliaSvili guglSi

eZebda TviTmkvlelobis gzebsa

da informacias imis Sesaxeb, Tu

ra mouvidoda feibsuqs misi

gardacvalebis SemTxvevaSi? amave

gancxadebaSi isic iyo naTqvami,

rom Tamar baCaliaSvili saZile

preparatebs eZebda. e. i. amiT

TviTmkvlelobis versia gamyarda.

vfiqrob, rom am yvelafers, sabolood,

albaT, daagvirgvinebs is,

rom sasamarTlo-samedicino eqspertizis

daskvna mova, sadac gvetyvian,

rom gamokvlevis Sedegad

gardacvlilis organizmSi aRmoCnda

is medikamentebi, rac avtomobilSi

ipoves. es aris gamoZiebis

mimarTuleba.

_ Tumca TviTmkvlelobis ver-

siasac, sxva versiebTan erTad,

aqvs arsebobis ufleba...

_ zogadad, yvela versia unda

ganixilebodes. gadaWriT verafers

vityvi, magram bunebrivia,

saeWvoa is, rom gamoZieba Tavisi

saqcieliT lobirebs TviTmkvlelobis

versiis kultivirebas da

am azris Camoyalibebas sazogadoebaSi.

miuxedavad imisa, rom saqmeSi

Zalian bevri kiTxvis niSania, piradad

eWvi mepareba TviTmkvlelobaSi,

radgan warmoudgenelia,

amdeni dRis ganmavlobaSi manqana

veravis epova, miT umetes im

teritoriaze, saZovarze, sadac

mwyemsebs naxiri dahyavT. Tan arc

iseT siRrmeSi idga manqana, rom

ver SeemCniaT. dronis Canawerebi

dRemde ar SeuswavliaT, gamoZieba

mediis saSualebiT iZulebuli

xdeba, raRac mtkicebulebebi moipovos.

Tamar baCaliaSvilis gadaadgilebis

lokaciebs swored media

adgens da Semdgom am yvelafers

mihyveba gamoZieba. mniSvnelovania

isic, rom amoiRon satelefono

anZebis detaluri amonaweri,

gadaadgilebis Sesaxeb informacia

ara mxolod Tamar baCaliaSvilis,

aramed im teritoriaze sxva ucxo

pirebis moZraobis Sesaxeb, _ soflis

mcxovreblebis garda im dros

sxva pirebi Tu imyofebodnen mimdebare

teritoriaze? bevri sagamoZiebo

moqmedebaa Casatarebeli.

aseve eWvs badebs is faqti, rom

Tamar baCaliaSvilis feisbuqgverdi

waiSala. advokati da ojaxi

iTxovda, maTi TandaswrebiT gaxsniliyo

kompiuteri, Tumca ukve

gaxsnili daxvdaT. Sss-m da sagamoZiebo

organoebma kargad icodnen,

rom es protestsa da mRelvarebas

gamoiwvevda. rogorc Cans,

isini am riskze wavidnen, sakuTari

gezisTvis sxva „sikeTis” motanis

mizniT. bunebrivia, es eWvebi Cndeba

da Tavad gamoZieba aCens eWvebs,

radgan igi isedac saxelgatexilia.

maT rom surdeT obieqturi, sa-

levan samuSia:

`qarTuli ocnebis~

safirmo niSani

gaukuRmarTebuli

samarTalia~

marTliani gamoZieba, sxvanairad

moiqceodnen. „SaqaraSvilis saqmidan”

gamomdinarec Cndeba eWvebi.

SemiZlia pirdapir giTxraT, rom

es saqme mizanmimarTulad yalbdeba,

Sesabamisad, aqac Cndeba eWvebi.

Tu vis interesebSi Sedis saqmis

gayalbeba, es ukve calke sakiTxia,

amis Taobaze xels veravisken

gaviSver da ver vimsjeleb, magram

faqtia, rom orive saqmeSi Zalian

bevri kiTxvis niSania.

_ gasul kviras „baCaliaSvilis

saqmeSi” uceb gamoCnda baCana

lobJaniZe, romlis TqmiTac, is

gardacvlilis Seyvarebuli iyo

da romelmac araerTi versia gaa-

JRera Tamar baCaliaSvilis gar-

dacvalebis Sesaxeb. bevri kiTxva

gaCnda mis sandoobazec. Tqveni,

rogorc iuristis SefasebiT, ra

roli aqvs am pirovnebas mTel am

tragediaSi?

_ am SemTxvevaSi veravisken gavi-

Sver xels, magram es yvelaferi

saeWvoa. geTanxmebiT, rom es adamiani

uceb gamoCnda, Tamar baCaliaSvilis

ojaxma da misma uaxloesma

megobrebma ar icodnen mis Sesaxeb,

Tu is Seyvarebuli iyo. baCana

lobJaniZe Zalian didi doziT Semovida

mediasivrceSi da Tavis

versiebs aJRerebs. esec sayuradReboa.

aqedan gamomdinare, yvelaferi,

razedac lobJaniZe saubrobs,

unda gadamowmdes. Tu gamo-

Ziebas ar surda, rom lobJaniZes

xmamaRla esaubra, mas gauTqmelobaze

xelwerils daawerinebda da

es adamiani arc ilaparakebda. rogorc

baCana lobJaniZis naTqvamidan

irkveva, is 8-jer daikiTxa 10

dRis ganmavlobaSi, e. i. is, rogorc

samsaxurSi, ise yoveldRe dadioda

dakiTxvaze. yvela es faqti

garkveul kiTxvebs badebs. amavdroulad,

sainteresoa misi informaciebi,

Tumca gadasamowmebelia

da arsebobs kiTxvebi, romelsac

pasuxebi sWirdeba da amaze obieqturma

gamoZiebam unda upasuxos,

rac, samwuxarod, qveyanaSi ar arsebobs.

_ uSualod baCana lobJaniZis

pirovnebasTan dakavSirebiT bev-

ri kiTxva gaCnda sazogadoebaSi.

Tamar baCaliaSvilis deda Sss-s

mier mis Canergilobaze saubrobs.

`baCana lobJaniZe Zalian didi doziT Semovida

mediasivrceSi da Tavis versiebs aJRerebs. esec

sayuradReboa. aqedan gamomdinare, yvelaferi,

razedac lobJaniZe saubrobs, unda gadamowmdes.

Tu gamoZiebas ar surda, rom lobJaniZes

xmamaRla esaubra, mas gauTqmelobaze

xelwerils daawerinebda da es adamiani arc

ilaparakebda. rogorc baCana lobJaniZis

naTqvamidan irkveva, is 8-jer daikiTxa 10 dRis

ganmavlobaSi, e. i. is, rogorc samsaxurSi, ise

yoveldRe dadioda dakiTxvaze. yvela es faqti

garkveul kiTxvebs badebs~

Tqveni SefasebiT ramdenad real-

isturia es versia?

_ yvela versias aqvs arsebobis

safuZveli da is unda gadamowmdes.

dadasturebiT ramis Tqma ar

SemiZlia. miT umetes, saqmis

masalebi Zalian mwiri raodenobiT

aris cnobili, Sesabamisad, Cven

yvelani moklebuli varT konkretuli

Sefasebis gakeTebis Sesa-

Zleblobas, gansxvavebiT „SaqaraSvilis

saqmisgan”, sadac yvelaferi

xelis gulze devs, Tu rogor moqmedebda

gamoZieba da ayalbebda

sisxlis samarTlis saqmes.

_ mas Semdeg, rac baCana lob-

JaniZem ganacxada, rom kompania

ZAG-i, sadac Tamar baCaliaSvili

muSaobda, qarTuli mentalitetisTvis

Seusabamo saqmianoba-

Si iyo CarTuli, kompaniis

iuristma ganacxada, rom isini

aranair kavSirSi ar iyvnen pornografiasTan

da mxolod pro-

gramul uzrunvelyofas uwevdnen

msgavsi tipis saitebs. am gancxadebidan

meore dRes TanamSrom-

lebis saxlebSi Cxreka daiwyo. am

SemTxvevaSi mtkicebiTi formiT

ar gTxovT Sefasebas, ubralod,

ra Cans am faqtidan?

_ am SemTxvevaSi Cans, rom baCana

lobJaniZe aqcents akeTebs Tamar

baCaliaSvilis samsaxurTan mimarTebiT.

rogorc irkveva, Tavadac

ambobs, rom kompania ZAG-Si

mentalobisTvis Seusabamo qmedebebi

xorcieldeboda. Tumca misgan

am Temis irgvliv dasabuTeba

naklebad movismineT. igi aseve ver

akonkretebs, Tu ratom SeiZleboda

yofiliyo kavSirSi Tamar ba-

CaliaSvilis gardacvalebasTan

misi samsaxuri? bunebrivia, kiTxvebi

unda daisvas saqmeSi arsebuli

yvela figurantis mimarT. magram

ramdenad sworad da obieqturad

svams kiTxvebs gamoZieba, es

ukve calke sakiTxia.

_ arsebobs eWvi, rom gamoZie-

ba cdilobs TviTmkvlelobis

versiis gamyarebas, miuxedavad

amisa, xedavT Tu arakvalificiurobas

gamoZiebasTan mimarTe-

biT?

_ magaliTad, „SaqaraSvilis

saqmeSi” gamoZieba Zalian didi siamovnebiT

daibralebda arakvalificiurobas.

zogadad, saqarTvelo-

Si yvela sferoSia kvalificiurobis

nakleboba, magram am SemTxveva-

Si kvalifikaciis naklebobaze ufro

sxva ram mgonia. kvalifikaciis

naklebobis SemTxvevaSi, Tundac,

„SaqaraSvilis saqme” rom aviRoT,

amdeni Secdoma ar iqneboda, Sei-

Zleboda, erTi-ori yofiliyo, magram

am SemTxvevaSi xom gamoZieba

10

10 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


xelSekruleba gaaforma~

mizanmimarTulad moqmedebda. Tu

„SaqaraSvilis saqmeze” gamoZiebas

etyviT, rom arakvalificiuria, Seifereben

kidec, SeiZleba ar esiamovnoT,

magram misaRebi iyos, radgan

ganzrax qmedebebis gadafarvas

arakvalificiurobiT cdiloben.

amaSi Rrmad var darwmunebuli,

„baCaliaSvilis saqmeze” ki mxolod

kvalifikaciis problema ar aris.

paraleli rom gavavloT, arc xoravas

saqmeSi yofila kvalifikaciis

problema. xoravas saqmeSi mizanmimarTuli

qmedebebi vixileT

gamoZiebis mxridan da sanam saqmem

dRis Suqi ar ixila, manam SoTaZe

gadadgomasac ar apirebda. Cven

vnaxeT, rogor viTardeboda movlenebi,

Tumca pasuxi aravis ugia,

radgan aseTi sistema gvaqvs, am

sistemas sWirdeba msgavsi msaxurebi

da Tu erTi daisjeba, sxvebi

sistemis msaxurebas Sewyveten.

aqedan gamomdinare, xelisufleba

aZlevs motivacias sistemis msaxurebs,

rom Tu isini morCilebaSi

iqnebian, pasuxs ar ageben.

_ dRevandeli mocemulobiT,

ramdenime versia arsebobs, amas

daemata saxelisuflebo mediis

mier gavrcelebuli informacia

ojaxSi Zaladobis faqtis Sesaxeb,

romelic 12 wlis winaT moxda.

baCaliaSvilis mamaze Semakave-

beli orderia gamowerili.

risTvis sWirdebaT am tipis in-

formaciebis gavrceleba?

_ es aris mizanmimarTuli qmedeba,

gaSavebis politika, maT Soris,

trolebiT, xelisuflebasTan kav-

Siri myofi adamianebiT Riad Tu

farulad. Cven gvaxsovs wina saqmeebidan

gamomdinare, rogor vi-

Tardeboda am kuTxiT movlenebi

zaza saraliZesTan mimarTebiT,

rogor iyo CarTuli prosaxelisuflebo

media da trolebi. msgavss

meTodebs iyenebdnen maCalikaSvilis

mimarTac. amas SeCveulebi

varT da es Zalian samwuxaroa.

Cvens qveyanaSi binZur propagandas

aqezeben da amkvidreben. darwmunebuli

var, sazogadoebas es yvelaferi

gaSifruli aqvs da kargad

xvdeba, vin ra mizniT moqmedebs.

_ im informaciebidan da

mocemulobidan gamomdinare, rac

gvaqvs, romeli versia ggoniaT

yvelaze realuri? magaliTad,

ojaxi da maTi uflebadamcveli

kategoriulad

gamoricxaven

TviTmkvlelobis versias.

_ verc erT versias ver mivani-

Web upiratesobas. yvelas aqvs arsebobis

safuZveli. am versiebze

gamoZiebam unda gasces pasuxi. samwuxarod,

yvelam kargad viciT,

rom gamoZieba Cvens qveyanaSi TiTqmis

ar arsebobs, miT umetes, aseT

saqmeebze. Cven rom romelime versiaze

gamokveTilad visaubroT,

magaliTad, 2-s mainc mivaniWoT upiratesoba,

saqmis masalebi srulad

unda vicodeT da amis Semdeg

SesaZlebelia analizis gakeTeba.

dRes vsaubrobT iqidan gamomdinare,

rac zedapirze devs da

geubnebiT, rom Zalian bevri kiTxvis

niSania. am sazogadoebaSi arsebul

kiTxvis niSnebs ki yoveld-

Riurad araTu aqrobs an bundovanebis

gafantvas cdilobs, aramed

piriqiT, kidev ufro meti gaurkvevloba

Semoaqvs da arsebul SekiTxvebsac

amyarebs Tavisi saqmianobiT.

Tu risTvis sWirdeba es

gamoZiebas, ukve calke kiTxvis niSnebs

Seicavs.

`Tu `SaqaraSvilis saqmeze~ gamoZiebas etyviT, rom arakvalificiuria, Seifereben

kidec, SeiZleba ar esiamovnoT, magram misaRebi iyos, radgan ganzrax qmedebebis

gadafarvas arakvalificiurobiT cdiloben. amaSi Rrmad var darwmunebuli,

`baCaliaSvilis saqmeze~ ki mxolod kvalifikaciis problema ar aris. paraleli

rom gavavloT, arc xoravas saqmeSi yofila kvalifikaciis problema. xoravas

saqmeSi mizanmimarTuli qmedebebi vixileT gamoZiebis mxridan~

_ rogoria Tqveni pasuxi,

risTvis sWirdeba?

_ Tu am donis saqmeebs mizanmimarTulad

ayalbeben da masSi xelovnurad

erevian, rom saqmeze

obieqturi WeSmariteba ar dadges,

maSin maRali saxelisuflebo

wreebis interesebi ikveTeba. rac

Seexeba „SaqaraSvilis saqmes”, darwmunebuli

var, rom aqac mizanmimarTulad

gayalbda sisxlis samarTlis

saqme.

_ baCaliaSvilis ojaxs proku-

raturaSi dokumentebi warud-

gines, romelic adasturebs, rom

gancxadeba federalur biuroSi

daxmarebis moTxovniT ukve gada-

gzavnilia. FBI-is (Ziebis feder-

aluri biuro) saqmeSi CarTva aris

Tu ara garantia imisa, rom

saqmeze obieqturi WeSmariteba

dadges?

_ am SemTxvevaSi mTavaria is, Tu

risTvis sTxoven FBI-is daxmarebas,

àm SemTxvevaSi mTavaria is, Tu risTvis

sTxoven FBI-is daxmarebas, ra moTxovnaa

gagzavnili? srulad undaT daxmareba, Tu

konkretuli eqspertizebi sWirdebaT? rogorc

gavigeT, feisbuqis mimowerebis aRdgena surT,

rogorc advokati saubrobda. an kompiuteris,

telefonis, manqanis eqspertiza moTxovnilia?

es aris arsebiTi mtkicebulebebi, Sesabamisad,

mniSvnelovania. aseve arsebiTad

mniSvnelovania manqanis SigniT da manqanis

kvalTan dakavSirebiT eqspertizis Catareba.

bunebrivia, amis didi gamocdileba aqvs FBI-is

da, zogadad, amerikis SeerTebul Statebs.

aqedan gamomdinare, mTavari is aris, ra saxis

moTxovna gaigzavna iq. Tu es moTxovna

moTxovnisTvis aris, rom sazogadoebas Tvali

auxvion? vfiqrob, FBI-is CarTva

mniSvnelovania. mxolod sakvlevi sakvanZo

sakiTxebi unda dakonkretdes~

ra moTxovnaa gagzavnili? srulad

undaT daxmareba, Tu konkretuli

eqspertizebi sWirdebaT? rogorc

gavigeT, feisbuqis mimowerebis

aRdgena surT, rogorc advokati

saubrobda. an kompiuteris, telefonis,

manqanis eqspertiza moTxovnilia?

es aris arsebiTi mtkicebulebebi,

Sesabamisad, mniSvnelovania.

aseve arsebiTad mniSvnelovania

manqanis SigniT da manqanis

kvalTan dakavSirebiT eqspertizis

Catareba. bunebrivia, amis

didi gamocdileba aqvs FBI-is da,

zogadad, amerikis SeerTebul

Statebs. aqedan gamomdinare, mTavari

is aris, ra saxis moTxovna

gaigzavna iq. Tu es moTxovna moTxovnisTvis

aris, rom sazogadoebas

Tvali auxvion? vfiqrob, FBI-is

CarTva mniSvnelovania. mxolod

sakvlevi sakvanZo sakiTxebi unda

dakonkretdes.

_ Tqven araerTxel axseneT

„SaqaraSvilis saqme”. xom ar

fiqrobT, rom „baCaliaSvilis

saqmem” igi gadafara?

_ „SaqaraSvilis saqme” veravi-

Tar SemTxvevaSi ver gadaifareba.

sisxlis samarTlis kuTxiT ukve

me-17 welia, praqtika maqvs da msgavsi

saqmis darRvevebi, rogoric

„SaqaraSvilis saqmeSia”, ar minaxavs.

Tavdapirvelad unda aRvniSnoT,

rom Tavidan saqme mihyavdaT

ubeduri SemTxvevis kvalifikaciiT,

rom TiTqos kldidan gadmovarda

an fexi daucda da Cavarda.

aseve mizanmimarTuli qmedebebia,

maT Soris, SemTxvevis adgilis ganzrax

ardacva, Semdgom gadamwvari

SemTxvevis adgilis dacva, rac,

ubralod, warmoudgenelia! aseve

nimuSebis araReba SesaZlo potenciuri

eWvmitanili pirebisagan.

tansacmlisa da fexsacmlis nimu-

Sis aReba 2-3 dRis Semdeg moindomes.

ra SeiZleba amovides

garecxili tansacmlidan?! an,

Tundac, SesaZloa, igive feris

sxva tansacmeli miutanon gamoZiebas!

frCxilis nimuSi saerTod ver

aiRes, radgan ukve daWrili hqondaT

frCxilebi!!! CanTasTan dakav-

SirebiT eqspertizis pasuxi ar

mosula! SeiZleba iTqvas, rom am

saqmeSi bevri iseTi qmedeba xorcieldeboda,

rac arc erT SemTxvevaSi

ar SeiZleba, SemTxveviTobas

mivaweroT.

aseve eqspert galina karmuSinasTan

dakavSirebiT trolebi

amuSavdnen da aTas sibinZureze

wamebdnen cils mas. maT Soris,

avrcelebdnen informacias, rom

igi gidi iyo. Tu es adamiani profesionalia,

ra mniSvneloba aqvs,

paralelurad gidia Tu ara? man

dasva kiTxvebi, romelzedac iZulebuli

gaxdnen, epasuxaT. batonma

gejaZem ganacxada, rom meqanikuri

Secdomao. gejaZes ar daeTanxma

„samxaraulis eqspertizis biuro”.

es ki karmuSinas profesonalizmsa

da imasac miuTiTebs, rom

warmoudgenlad damazianebeli

qmedebebi Catarada sisxlis samarTlis

saqmisTvis. rodesac

saqme sasamarTloSi ar wasula da

eqspertebi sajaro sivrceSi upirispirdebian

da kiTxvis niSnis qveS

ayeneben TavianT daskvnas, sasamarTloSi

mtkicebuleba da miT

umetes eqspertizis daskvna unda

iyos utyuari da calsaxa. am eqspertizis

daskvnas ki „wyals uyeneben”.

kompleqsuri, komisiuri eqspertizaa

daniSnuli. pasuxebs velodebiT

da ramdenime dRis win

gavigeT, rom Turme „samxarauli”

eqspertebs eZebs da gamoZiebas

sTxovs daxmarebas. mTeli sagaze-

To nomeri ar gveyofa im darRvevebis

CamosaTvlelad, rac SaqaraSvilis

sisxlis samarTlis saqmeSia.

warmoudgenelia, rom es mxolod

da mxolod SemTxveviToba iyos,

aseTi rameebi SemTxveviT ar xdeba.

_ Cven konkretulad visaubreT

bolo drois or yvelaze gaxmau-

rebul da burusiT mocul

saqmeebze. am saqmeebSi sistemuri

danaSaulis niSnebi ikveTeba? ra

iwvevs qveyanaSi gauaresebul

kriminogenur viTarebas?

_ „qarTuli ocnebis” safirmo

niSania ukanonoba, usamarTloba,

gaukuRmarTebuli samarTali da

amis ise SemosaRebis mcdeloba,

rom TiTqos qveyanaSi samarTalia.

aseve maTi safirmo niSania Tavidan

bolomde korufciaSi Cafluli

qveyana. es aris ara qarTuli,

aramed „rusuli ocneba” da „putinis

ocneba”, radgan igi dRiTi

dRe gvaSorebs dasavlur faseulobebs.

_ ratom midis am yvelaferze

xelisufleba, saTanadod ver iaz-

rebs mis mcdar nabijebs?

_ qveyanaSi samarTaldamcveli

sistema moSlilia, instituciebi

ar arsebobs. Sesabamisad, xelisufleba

usamarTlobiTa da sasamarTlos

politikuri kontroliT

cdilobs Zalauflebis Senar-

Cunebas. „qarTulma ocnebam” xelSekruleba

gaaforma kriminal-

Tan.

rac Seexeba dasavluri mimarTulebidan

gadaxvevas, es aris

erTi erTSi rusuli politikis

gatareba. darwmunebuli var, rom

saqarTvelos xelisuflebisTvis

saerTod miuRebelia Cveni qveynis

natoSi integracia.

_ aseT mocemulobaSi ra

SemTxvevaSi SeiZleba am or

saqmeze obieqturi WeSmaritebis

dadgena?

_ „SaqaraSvilis saqmeze” simar-

Tle viciT, magram samarTalma SesaZloa,

mogvianebiT izeimos, magram

darwmunebuli var, arcTu ise

xangrZliv periodSi yvela saqmeze

obieqturi WeSmariteba dadgeba,

vinaidan am xelisuflebas sul

ramdenime TveRa darCa. erTxel da

samudamod, depolitizebuli samarTaldamcveli

sistema, sasamarTlo

Seiqmneba, rac avtomaturad

gamoricxavs sisxlis samarTlis

saqmeebis gayalbebas.

11


ingilo gogos bedi tragikulad dasrulda.

rogorc aRmoCnda, CvenSi seriozulobas

gulCaTxrobilobad Tvlian... Tu

xmamaRla ar viciniT, maSin depresiulebi

varT... bavSvobaSi Tu dedisa da mamis kinklaobas

vuyureT, Zaladobis msxverplni

vyofilvarT... Tu fsiqologi gvyavs, e. i.

gavgiJdiT... da rodis dadgeba is dRe, roca

anatomiaze maRla dadgeba suli? ai, imaze

mogaxsenebT, sulis anatomiaze, romelic

adamianebs gulwrfelebs gaxdis da ingilo

gogo Tamunas am qveynidan wasvlis ambavs

gulwrfelad moayolinebs mis herel mogvare

nika baCaliaSvils:

„es is ingilo gogoa, mefisTvis Tavze

qliavi rom unda daeyara, magram ar acades,

monebi miugzavnes da istoria waSales. es

is gogoa, romelmac simarTlisTvis bolomde

ibrZola patiosnad, ise rom sxva aravin

gawira, es is gogoa viszec wignebSi werdnen

adre, viszec filmebs unda iRebdnen

Cvens droSi. magram yvela Cumad varT,

velodebiT, sxva ras ityvis, sxva ras dawers

da „davulaiqebT”, eh!..

gana, ar icoda, sad midioda? gana, ar

SeeZlo, sisuste gamoeCina da sxvac Caegdo

safrTxeSi, magram ara _ „marto”, vaJkacurad,

uSiSrad, rogorc ingilo qals Seefereba,

ise wavida da rogorc yovelTvis,

umuxTles, samSoblos uRalates isev SublZarRvgawyvetilebma!

SublZarRvgawyvetilobo, simarTlea mxolod

„xsna”, simarTle da sinanuli, oRond

orive erTad da iqneb, mere mSvidad daiZinoT.

es Sedareba TamarisTvisaa, Torem erekle

mefesTan Sesadarebeli vinaa da sad-

Raa?!.”

Tamuna rom kargi studenti iyo da kargad

swavlobda, amaze isic metyvelebs, rom

is ivane javaxiSvilis saxelobis saxelmwifo

universitetis kompiuteruli mecingilo

qalis tragikuli aRsasruli

baCaliaSvili, baCaliaSvili, baCaliaSvili... ucn-

maka mosiaSvili

auri bedi hqonia Tamunas... bevrma, albaT, arc icis,

599 97 25 55

rom Tamari hereli gogo iyo da mas usazRvrod

uyvarda Tavisi kuTxe... mokle warwera fotoze,

romelic Tavad Tamarma daurTo sakuTar profils socqselze... qarTulad: „msof-

lio savsea keTili adamianebiT... Tu Sen ver poulob erT-erTs, iyavi erT-erTi”.

nierebis (qarTul-franguli) sabakalavro

programis dagegmvis, SemuSavebisa da ganviTarebis

mxardamWeri komitetis wevri

iyo.

faqtia, rom Tamunas Sroma ar ezareboda,

is muSaobda ara erT, aramed or da,

rogorc Cans, ramdenime samsaxurSic...

misi gardacvalebis Semdeg mxolod Sps

„zegSi” ar daudasturda samsaxuri. cnobili

gaxda, rom gardacvlili Tamar ba-

CaliaSvili kompania Spry flash-Si 21 Tebervlamde

muSaobda.

„Cveni kompania aris mcire cifruli teqnologiebis

kompania. Cveni specializaciaa

kompaniebisTvis vebgverdebis Seqmna da

programuli uzrunvelyofa. baCaliaSvili

iyo Cveni qvekontraqtori, romelic gvexmareboda

kompaniebSi statistikisa da analitikis

monacemebis damuSavebis programis

SeqmnaSi.

Cven vnaxeT informacia qarTul mediasa-

SualebebSi, sadac baCaliaSvili naxsenebia,

rogorc kiber usafrTxoebis specialisti,

rasac Cven ver davadasturebT.

is muSaobda CvenTvis mxolod programebis

umcros developerad. Cveni TanamSromloba

2019 wlis oqtombridan 2020 wlis 21

Tebervlamde gagrZelda.

Cven es qalbatoni piradad arasdros

gvinaxavs da mxolod cifrul formatSi

vTanamSromlobdiT. proeqtis dasrulebis

Semdeg Cven baCaliaSvilTan kontaqti aRar

gvqonia”, weria kompaniis oficialur

gancxadebaSi.

rogorc cnobilia, misi gardacvalebidan

ramdenime dReSi Tamunas feisbuqis

gverdic gaqra sivrcidan. Tumca sivrcidan

ar gamqrala misi sxva socialuri qselebi.

magaliTad, instagrami.

ucnauri is aRmoCnda, rom instagramze

mis gardacvalebamde ufro meti e. w.

foloveri anu gamomweri hyavda. xolo misi

ratom qrebian instagramidan Tamuna

baCaliaSvilis foloverebi?

ucnauri sikvdilis Semdeg adamianebi mis

gamowerasa da masTan megobrobas auqmeben

sxvadasxva socialur qselSi.

amisi dasturi is ori sqrinia, romelic

baCaliaSvilis dakrZalvis dRes da axla

gvaqvs aRbeWdili.

ucnauri megobrebi aRmoaCndnen mas. yvela

garbis, yvela imaleba, yvelas raRacis

Tqma ar unda, yvela bnel oTaxSi miiwevs.

Cemi wyaros informaciiT ki:

„pirebi, romlebic TamunasTan iyvnen

dakavSirebulni profesiulad da hqondaT

masTan gadakveTa, maT daiwyes feisbuqze

Tavisi aqtivobebis damalva, suraTebis waSla

publikisTvis da statusebis gaqroba.

aseve periodulobiT ramdenime dRe auqmeben

xolme feisbuqsac.

ufro zustad rom giTxraT, eseni iyvnen

daaxloebiT iseTive programistebi, rogoric

iyo Tamuna. magaliTad, giorgi b. an

Temur W.

zogadad samsaxurSi, sadac muSaobda

Tamuna, ar hqonda ufleba scodnoda, vin

iyo misi TanamSromeli sxva developeri.

Tavad programistebic ki erTmaneTs umalaven

sakuTari samsaxuris misamarTs da ar

eubnebian damkveTs. es praqtika ar vici,

aris Tu ara sxva qveyanaSi, magram saqar-

TveloSi asea. mizezi ar vici.

rac Seexeba mis megobrebs, romlebic

virtualuri samyarodan qrebian da imalebian,

didi albaTobiT, maT ician, ratom

mokles baCaliaSvili da esaa mTavari mizezi”.

baCana lobJaniZe: `dea kapanaZe Tamar

baCaliaSvilze mniSvnelovan faqtebs malavs~

meoTxe gverdidan

- minda, am momentSi kadrSi

vCande. am videos garda sxva videoc

gvaqvs manqanaSi gadaRebuli,

gadaadgilebis procesSi.

_ ratom daukavSirdiT dea

kapanaZes? rogorc is ambobs, mas

Tamaris Sesaxeb raRacebs ekiTxebodiT.

raSi gWirdebodaT mis-

gan Tamaris Sesaxeb informacia

gagegoT maSin, roca aRniSneT,

rom Tamars imaze ukeT icnobdiT,

vidre is sakuTar Tavs icnobda?

_ deas arsebobis Sesaxeb mediidan

gavige. gadavwyvite, Sevxmianebodi,

radgan, rogorc aRmoCnda,

me da deas Tamari urTierTgamomricxav

raRacebs gveubneboda.

me deasTan Sexvedris Semdeg

davrwmundi, rom is deasTan sul

sxva Tamari iyo, CemTan ki _ radikalurad

gansxvavebuli. me minda

gavigo, raSi SevcdiT am saqmesTan

dakavSirebiT da ra kuTxiT dagvibinda

Tvalebi Tamarma. bevri ramea,

rac kvals urevs. golTeTSi

wasvla, sadac 2 Cixia da iq gauCinareba

yvelaze mzakvruli gegmaa.

_ Tu Tamaris TviTmkvleloba

inscenirebulia, eWvobT Tu ara,

rom amaSi mas dea exmareboda?

_ am SemTxvevaSi sagulisxmoa is,

rom dea kapanaZes, ojaxisgan gansxvavebiT,

TviTmkvlelobis versiis

sjera. CemTan saubrisas is meubneba,

rom Tamars nika gejaZe moswonda,

rom Tamars 3-jer hqonda

TviTmkvlelobis mcdeloba. ratom

akeTebs am Temebze aqcents?

miCndeba gonivruli eWvi, rom is

am gziT Cemi yuradRebis gadatanas

sul sxva mimarTulebiT cdilobs.

vfiqrob, amiT deas sakuTari

Tavis dafarva surs. deas saubridan

gamomdinare, rogorc Cans, misi

mcdeloba mimarTulia imisken, mafiqrebinos,

rom Tamarma SesaZloa,

nika gejaZis mimarT gancdili upasuxo

siyvarulis gamo moikla

Tavi, rac warmoudgenelia Tamarisgan.

damerwemuneT, me mas kargad

vicnobdi da Tamarisnairi adamianebi

am mizeziT Tavs ar iklaven.

dea kapanaZesTan dakavSirebiT

aseve erTi faqti badebs eWvs, _

deam mimoweris dros miTxra: „Tamari

marto Cemi sicocxleao”. am

Setyobinebidan Zalian male Tamaris

instagramidan video, sadac me

da Tamari viyaviT Tegidan MY

LOVE, qreba, aseve Tamaris gverdidan

Cems gverdze keTdeba unfollow-i,

aqedan gamomdinare, es niSnavs

imas, rom Tamaris gverdze vi-

Racas aqvs wvdoma, vinc es waSala.

am nawilSi yvelaze mniSvnelovania

is, rom es xdeba mas Semdeg, rac

dea Tamarze meubneba, rom is mxolod

misi sicocxlea. me konkretuli

kiTxvebi maqvs deasTan: sad

imyofeboda is Tamaris gauCinarebis

dRes? aseve Tu is saukeTeso

megobaria da TamarTan erTad yovelTvis

im kafeSi dadioda, sadac

Tamarma mimiyvana, ratom ar imyofeboda

dea saukeTeso megobris

dabadebis dReze? deas „feisbuqidan”

dedamisma momwera, vin xar

da ra gindao? vuTxari, rom deasTan

saubari mindoda, ris Semdegac

dambloka. deas Sesaxeb araferi

vicodi. rogorc axla irkveva,

is socialur qselSi aqtiurad

`sagulisxmoa is, rom dea kapanaZes, ojaxisgan

gansxvavebiT, TviTmkvlelobis versiis sjera.

CemTan saubrisas is meubneba, rom Tamars nika

gejaZe moswonda, rom Tamars 3-jer hqonda

TviTmkvlelobis mcdeloba. ratom akeTebs am

Temebze aqcents? miCndeba gonivruli eWvi, rom

is am gziT Cemi yuradRebis gadatanas sul

sxva mimarTulebiT cdilobs. vfiqrob, amiT

deas sakuTari Tavis dafarva surs~

debda TamarTan erTad gadaRebul

fotoebs, Tumca Tamars masTan

erTad gadaRebuli mxolod ramdenime

foto hqonda. aqedan gamomdinare,

miCndeba eWvi, rom, didi

albaTobiT, dea kapanaZe TamarTan

dakavSirebiT mniSvnelovan faqtebs

malavs.

_ im SemTxvevaSi, Tu safrTxes

igrZnobT, ras moimoqmedebT?

_ Tu Cemze zewola da TiTis

gaSvera gagrZelda, erTi am garemoebis

amxsneli vrceli posti

tviterze an linkdinze Cemi mxridan

sakmarisi iqneba Cemi megobari

kolegebisTvis da rogorc jorj

floidze moxda solidaroba, amgvari

formis mxardaWeras ganaxorcieleben

Cem mimarTac Deep Learning

/ Machine Learning _ am Temebze

kaliforniaSi momuSave Cemi megobari

inJinrebi. aseve computerphile/numberphile

(iTub arxebi), romlebic

saWiroebis SemTxvevaSi Cemi

TxovniT Caweren mxardasaWer videos

da gamoaqveyneben TavianT

arxebze, tvitersa da linkdinze.

12

12 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

eliso kilaZe

vis reJimSi sasamarTlo yadaRis

qveS? maSin, rodesac yvela saproceso

wesis mixedviT vladimer kakabaZes

ukve didi xania, uari unda

eTqva saqmis gansaxilvelad miRebaze!

saqarTvelos yofili mTavari

bralmdebeli amjerad ukve advokatis

statusiT uzenaes sasa-

599 17 12 12

gazeTi „qronika+“ ukve araerTi

welia, TbilisSi, petriaSvilis q. #1-Si mdebare Rvinis qarxnis

irgvliv ganviTarebul movlenebs aSuqebs, romelic, jer kidev,

2014 wlis dekembridan daiwyo da dRemde grZeldeba!


gazeTis mkiTxvelisTvis kargad

aris cnobili, rom TbilisSi, petriaSvilis

q. #1-Si mdebare Rvinis

qarxana warmoadgens kerZo pirebis

sakuTrebas, romelic 2013-2014

wlebSi gamoisyides saqarTveloSi

moqmedi ori yvelaze msxvili komerciuli

bankisagan (TBC banki da

saqarTvelos banki). obieqtis Sesyidva

ganxorcielda sruliad gamWvirvaled

da mas uSualo zedamxedvelobas

uwevda saqarTvelo-

Si yvelaze maRali reputaciis

mqone ori umsxvilesi banki.

amis miuxedavad, 2014 wlis dekembers

sasamarTloSi daiwyo samoqalaqo

dava, romlis farglebSic

mosarCele ss „savane Rvinis #1

qarxana” iTxovs, rom obieqti,

romelic ramdenime milion aSS

dolarad SeiZines investorebma,

maT CamoerTvas da sakuTrebaSi

gadaeces mosarCeles. sarCelSi ss

„savane Rvinis #1 qarxana” acxadebs,

rom 2004 wels iyo aRniSnuli

qonebis mesakuTre, magram saku-

Treba dakarga imis gamo, rom pir-

Ta danaSaulebrivma jgufma giorgi

mgalobliSvilis organizatorobiT

maTgan ukanonod, motyuebiT

miitaca Rvinis qarxnis mTeli teritoria,

anu marTalia, qoneba 2004

wels gaiyida, magram aRniSnuli

nasyidoba iyo TvalTmaqcuri da

realurad qonebis misakuTreba im

periodisaTvis danaSaulebrivad

ganaxorciela pirTa jgufma giorgi

mgalobliSvilis organizatorobiT.

gazeTma „qronika+”-ma araerTi

Jurnalisturi gamoZieba Caatara

aRniSnuli obieqtis irgvliv. mki-

Txvels sruli suraTi SevTavazeT,

Tu rogor Seisyides obieqti investorebma,

agreTve detalurad

gavaSuqeT yvela is procesi, romelic

badebda safuZvlian eWvs, rom

pirTa garkveuli jgufi sasamarTlos

gamoyenebiT cdilobda keTilsindisieri

mesakuTreebisTvis

obieqtis „axevas” da rom am iuridiuli

manipulaciebis saTaveSi idga

saqarTvelos yofili mTavari prokurori

arCil kbilaSvili.

procesebi daiwyo imiT, rom

swored batoni kbilaSvilis uSualo

mecadineobiT, davis dawyebisTanave,

2015 wlis 6 ianvars, Tbilisis

saqalaqo sasamarTlom (ganmxilveli

mosamarTle laSa qoCiaSvili)

davis saboloo dasrulebamde

yadaRa daado obieqts. aRniSnuli

gakeTda Segnebulad, raTa

obieqts mospoboda TviTganviTarebis

SesaZlebloba, SezRuduliyo

masSi investiciebis mozidva da

misi mesakuTreebi iribad gaexadaT

iZulebuli, rom isini wasuliyvnen

obieqtis daTmobaze.

„qronika+~ dainteresda im sakiTxebis

garkveviT, Tu realurad

ra procesebi ganviTarda Rvinis

qarxnis irgvliv 2004-2006 wlebSi

da gamoarkvia Semdegi:

2006 wels saqarTvelos prokuraturaSi

daiwyo sisxlis samarTlis

gamoZieba ss „savane Rvinis #1

qarxnis” xelmZRvanelebis mimarT,

romelTac brali edebodaT mar-

TlsawinaaRmdego misakuTrebis

mizniT sxvisi nivTis motyuebiT

dauflebaSi. braldeba Seexeboda

swored Rvinis qarxnis marTlsawinaaRmdego

dauflebas da am dana-

SaulSi maSin brali warudgines

aTamde pirovnebas, maT Soris, mTavar

braldebulebad miCneuli iyo

swored zemoT naxsenebi giorgi

mgalobliSvili.

giorgi mgalobliSvils Rvinis

qarxnis ukanonod dauflebisTvis

2008 wlis 10 dekebers ganaCeniT

miesaja 7 wliT Tavisuflebis

aRkveTa, magram sxva „rigiTi”

braldebulebisagan gansaxvavebiT,

mas realurad msjavri ar Sexebia.

gazeTma detalurad gaSifra is

sqema, Tu rogor SeZlo Rvinis

qarxnis miTvisebaSi braldebulma

giorgi mgalobliSvilma pasuxismgeblobisgan

Tavis arideba da

ra roli iTamaSa am procesebSi

arCil kbilaSvilma.

rogorc gamoirkva, giorgi mgalobliSvili

sisxlis samarTlis

pasuxismgeblobisgan ganTavisuflda

2013 wlis 24 ivliss imis

gamo, rom dazaralebulma ss „savane

Rvinis #1-ma qarxanam” sisxlis

samarTlis sasamarTloSi werilobiT

ganacxada imis Taobaze, rom

giorgi mgalobliSvils kompaniisTvis

ziani ar miuyenebia. gazeTis

redaqciam konfidencialur wyaroze

dayrdnobiT gamoaqveyna skanadaluri

dokumentebi, romliTac

sruliad Tavdayira dadga SeTxzuli

istoria imis Taobaze, rom

TiTqos Rvinis qarxana ukanonod

gasxvisda.

skandaluri dokumentebis gamoqveynebis

fonze arCil kbilaSvilma

da misma kolega advokatebma,

praqtikulad, Sturmi miitanes saqmis

ganmxilvel saapelacio palataze,

ufro konkretulad ki palatis

Tavmjdomare qeTevan mesxiSvilze,

romelic imiT dasrulda,

rom maT SeZles rogorc mosamar-

Tle qeTevan mesxiSvilis Camocileba

saqmis gaxilvisagan, ise ganmxilveli

palatis sruli daSla.

gazeTma „qronika+”-ma aseve detalurad

gaSifra is sqema, Tu

rogor dagegma da Semdeg ganaxorciela

saqarTvelos yofilma mTavarma

prokurorma misTvis arasasurveli

mosamarTlis saqmis ganxilvisagan

Camocileba.

kerZod, mopovebuli informaciiT,

maT ver SeZles iuridiul

wreebSi sakmaod maRali avtoritetis

mqone mosamarTle qeTevan

mesxiSvilis „dayolieba” da iZulebuli

gaxdnen, is saqmis ganxilvisagan

CamoecilebinaT. Tumca yvelaze

sagangaSo am yvelaferSi is

iyo, rom Cven mier mopovebuli informaciiT,

aRniSnuli iuridiuli

manipulacia uSualod daigegma

sasamarTlo sistemaSi moqmedi

„bosebis” pirdapiri monawileobiT

da maTi „nebarTviT”.

mas Semdeg, rac Cven gavasajaroveT

aRniSnuli informacia, saapelacio

sasamarTloSi araerTxel

Secvlili sasamarTlo Semadgenloba,

sabolood, iZulebuli gaxda,

2019 wlis 29 oqtombers kvlav

uari eTqva batoni kbiliSvilis

ganzraxvis sisruleSi moyvanaze.

aRniSnulis Semdeg, kidev erTxel

da ukve meoTxed mogebul saqmeze,

rodesac yvelam bunebrivad

miiCnia, rom dava dasrulda, irkveva,

rom, Turme, _ ara!

gazeTma konfidencialur wyaroze

dayrdnobiT moipova informacia,

rom davis saapelacio sasamar-

TloSi wagebis Semdeg arCil kbilaSvilma

ganawyenebuli „damkveTebis”

Semorigeba SeZlo im dapirebiT,

rom uzenaes sasamarTloSi vi-

Tarebis „Semobrunebas” moaxerxebs.

rogorc gazeTma gamoarkvia,

saqme gansaxilvelad aweria baton

vladimer kakabaZes, romelic warmoadgens

axlad daniSnul mosamar-

Tles da romelzedac batoni kbilaSvili

sxvadasxva wyaros gamoyenebiT

cdilobs gavlenis mopovebas.

ratom aWianurebs uzanaesi

sasamarTlos mosamarTle

vladimer kakabaZe Rvinis

qarxnis saqmis dasrulebas?

eWvebs gansakuTrebiT amZafrebs

is faqti, rom vladimer kakabaZesTan

saqme gasaxilvelad imyofeba

2020 wlis ianvridan da am dromde

sasamarTlo ver scems pasuxs

Rvinis qarxnis mesakuTreebs, Tu

rogor SeiZleba qvemdgom instanciebSi

samjer mogebuli saqme isev,

TiTqmis, 8 Tve iyos kvlav ganxil-

marTloSi kvlavac cdilobs gaagrZelos

misTvis kargad aprobirebuli

taqtika da iuridiuli manipulaciebis

gamoyenebiT SeZlos davis

misTvis sasurveli scenariT

warmarTva. amasobaSi ki Rvinis qarxana,

romelic investorebma 2013-

2014 wlebSi gamoisyides saqarTvelos

ori umsxvilesi komerciuli

bankisgan, srulad paralizebulia.

sasamarTlo dava, romelic jer

kidev 2014 wlis dekemberSi daiwyo,

dRemde gadauwyvetelia, rac

Zalian cudi signalia saqarTveloSi

investirebiT dainteresebuli

biznesmenebisTvis! situacias gansakuTrebiT

amZafrebs is faqtic,

rom obieqti imyofeba sasamarTlo

yadaRis qveS, rac pirdapir aferxebs

masSi investiciebis mozidvisa

da srulfasovani biznessaqmianobis

SesaZleblobas.

„qronika+~ agrZelebs Jurnalistur

gamoZiebas da aqtiurad swavlobs

uzenaes sasamarTloSi mosamarTle

vladimer kakabaZis monawileobiT

movlenebis SesaZlo ganviTarebis

yvela SemTxvevas, rasac

Cvens mkiTxvels uaxloes momaval-

Si SevTavazebT.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

13

ratom damRala samSoblom?..

meSveobiT.

mere iyo konfliqti cxinvalis

regionSi. erovnuli xelisuflebis

mier istoriuli

samarTlianobis aRdgena da im

avtonomiuri olqis gauqmeba,

romelic rusebma „saCuqrad”

Seuqmnes maT Tanamzraxvel os

komunistebs. sisxlisRvra, konflqiti

da am konfliqtis Caqroba.

separatist torez kulumbegovis

cixeSi gamomwyvdeva,

im torez kulumbegovis, romelic

mere qarTvelma kolaboracionistebma

zustad ise gamou-

Sves cixidan „politpatimris”

statusiT, rogorc biZinas mosvlis

mere nana kakabaZem da eka

beseliam, da ra Tqma unda, Tavad

biZina ivaniSvilma da mTelma

„ocnebam” _ araerTi yaCaRi,

TiTlibazi, jaSuSi da pedofili.

ra iyo es, _ zviad gamsaxurdias

jibrze saqarTvelos

mtris gamoSveba Tu imTaviTve

micemuli piroba rusebisTvis,

iseTive piroba, rogoric

iyo cxinvalis regionis separatistebisTvis

da maSasadame,

ruseTisTvis Cabareba? cxadia,

es iyo is, rasac pilpilad eyara

zizRi zviad gamsaxurdias mimarT.

kremlisTvis! samoqalaqo omad

ver CaiTvleba marto imitom,

rom ruseTisgan da maTi agenturisgan

waqezebulma erTma

muWa axalgazrdobam iaraRi

aiRo da kinoebSi nanaxi omi

Tbilisis quCebSi gadmoitana.

am yvelafers moveswariT,

kitovanis „daxatul” rusTavels

vuyurebdi mTeli axalgazrdoba,

vidre es frTamali

kubo ar dadges mxatvris saxlis

adgilas.

kanonieri xelisuflebis damxobas

mohyva samegrelos aoxreba.

monRolebs ar ukadrebiaT

is, rac pirsisxlianma „mxedrionma”

da sxva formirebebma

ikadres sakuTar miwaze. es

dRes gamodis dodo gugeSaSvili

pomadagadadRlezili da

didis ambiT gviyveba „heroikul

ambebs”. ise, maSinac pomada

esva, roca darCelis gadabugvis

brZanebas gascemda. dar-

Celis gadabugva erTi epizodi

iyo im saSinelebis, im ubedurebis,

romelic samegreloSi trialebda.

aRarafers vambobT afxazeTis

omze, soxumis dacemaze, afxazeTis

dakargvasa Tu mtrisTvis

leebs. es viTom stumarTmoyvare

Tbilisi realurad ranairi

stumarTmoyvarec iyo, gamoCnda.

ise, erTicaa, Tbiliss

stumrebi uyvars _ gadamTieli,

ucxo jiSis da jilagis da sulac

ar uyvars isini, vinc ise-

Tive patronia Tbilisis, rogorc

_ Tavad.

da ra daujda es yvelaferi

Cems Taobas? srul sibneled,

anarqiad, sisxlisRvrad, mZvinvare

narkomaniad, urTierTcxrilvad,

uSuqobad, ugazobad,

SimSilad, puris rigebad, gayinul

auditoriebad da saklaso

oTaxebad, uxelfasobad, korufciis

Waobad, yvela fexis nabijze

qrTamad, uperspeqtivobad.

da ras akeTebda Cemi samSoblos

xalxi? xan imas eloda, rom

eduard SevardnaZe saqarTvelos

aayvavebda, rakiRa saxeli

hqonda didi. daimaxsovreT,

igive xalxi wlebis Semdeg biZina

ivaniSvilisgan daelodeba

igives, rakiRa ivaniSvils fuli

aqvs didi. am SemTxvevaSic „didi”

figurirebs. rogorc Cans,

am xalxis erotikul fantaziebSi

„didia” mTavari da mniSvneloba

ar aqvs, ra iqneba didi _

saxeli, fuli Tu sxva ram.

elodnen SevardnaZisgan ayvavebas,

gzadagza uCoqebdnen,

darCenas evedrebodnen, gzadagza

irCevdnen, zustad 13 weli

elodnen misgan ayvavebas da mxolod

SemdegRa Caiqnies xeli

masze. ufro sworad, maT ki ara,

dasavleTma Caiqnia xeli masze.

ufro sworad, dasavleTma mas

Semdeg, rac poziciebi ganimtkica,

aRar moisurva mudmivad

dasavleTsa da ruseTs Soris

moTamaS-mobalanse SevardnaZe

saqarTvelos xelisuflebis

saTaveSi. dasavleTis am ganwyobasa

da adgilze SevardnaZis

winaaRmdeg mebrZol Zalebs ahyva

maSin bevri, gaerivnen maraqa-

Si da am gziT aRmoCndnen istoriis

swor mxares, Torem rom

ara is procesebi, isev iq darCebodnen,

sadaca idgnen da erTiorjer

kidevac moaswrebdnen

CaCoqebas mis winaSe. kubos karamde

misi imedi eqnebodaT, sikvdilamde

progresul Zalebs

rom ar waerTmiaT misi Tavi.

xelisuflebidan misi Camo-

SorebiT dasrulda dasavleTsa

da ruseTs Soris „ase Cemo

manaseo, xan ise da xan ases” cekva.

qveyanam erTmniSvnelovnad

dasavleTisken ibruna piri da

es dagvijda swored Zvirad

2008 wels.

dagvijda gmirebis sicocxled,

warTmeul soflebad,

dabombil qalaqebad, devnilebis

axal nakadad. Tu aqamde

ruseTi kulisebidan ibrZoda

da scenaze mxolod afsua da

osi separatistebi idgnen, axla

bolomde Camoixsnes niRabi,

iZulebuli gaxdnen, Tavad gamovardniliyvnen

scenaze aviaciiT.

es yvelaferi gadavitaneT

yvelam. gadavitane mec, roca

vrekavdi saxlSi gorSi, ver gadioda

zari gadatvirTuli xazebis

gamo da ar vicodi, cocxali

iyo Tu ara gorSi CarCenili

deda da idga Tu ara Cemi saxli;

roca TbilisSi vcxovrobdi

korpusSi, romelic sazRvris

dacvis departamentis, anu

mtrisTvis saintereso erT-er-

Ti obieqtis gverdiT idga; saxli,

saidanac „sumkebiT” Cumad

gaipara TiTqmis mTeli samezoblo;

roca Tbilisisken iwevda

mteri da dRes, ai, im omidan

yvela zneobrivad da xor-

cielad gaxrwnil qals Tu kacs

rom upirvelesad patiosani adamianebi

Cabarebaze, romelic, alleebs.

baT, gacvlili iyo ZalauflebaSi...

`damijereT, raRac namdvilad dampalia im

saxelmwifoSi, sadac wlebis winaT

specoperaciisas moklul pirze asjer mets da

zustad 12 wlis Tavze, zustad,

ai, is, Tavad „sumkebiT” gaparuli

xalxi, dgas da aSearebs sias,

sZuls da yvela mtris da mere ra iyo? yovlad ums-

didxans laparakoben, vidre zviad

Tu rogor garboda maSin mTabaT,

falosze amxedrebul kolaboracionists

rom patriotebi, rodesac Tavis saxlkaridan

bi, trolebi an xelqavia „qoce-

dampalia im sazogadoebis cnobierebaSi,

swored is ambavi iyo qarTul ZaliT gamoyrili xalxi aq, Tbibi”

rom amas aSearebdnen da amas

romelsac 15 wlis winaT mokluli

„inweligenciasa” da zviad gamlisSi

dRis wesrigs urRvevda

imeorebdnen, ra uWirda, magram

gavsi procesebi aq, TbilisSi,

vroba Tbilisidan. marto bote-

gamsaxurdias mkvlelobaze. raRac namdvilad

saxurdias Soris.

viRacas, „ungrevda” im Tbiliss,

axalgazrdis bedi dResac àRelvebs~ da am

amas gaiZaxis qveynis Tavdacvis

kulumbegovis gamoSvebamde romelic, Turme, nu ityviT da

wuTas moklul `Saqaras~ saqmeze morCilad

ministri, romelic qveynisTavlafdasxmis

ki is samarcxvino sisxlisRvra

vixileT, romelsac dRes bevri

samoqalaqo omad gvtenis. arada,

iyo „urTierToba”. dRes yvelam

daiviwya, ra samarcxvinoebi iyvnen

maSin, roca cxvirs ubzue-

Sescicinebs gamoZiebas da elodeba, ras ver

gaigeb, rogor gamoiZieben rames Tu rogor

`gaapraveben~ Carbenisas fexis dacurebiT

ministri ufroa.

Turme, mTavroba garboda ma-

Sin. ukacravad da aba, me rom-

aranairi samoqalaqo omi ar bdnen soxumidan, mTlianad afx-

aragvSi vardnas~

el mTavrobis sxdomebs vuyur-

yofila, es iyo arCevnebis gziT azeTidan devnil Tanamemamuebdi

im omis dReebSi? kargi, is-

rezo SatakiSvili

597 94 42 50

erTxel, wlebis winaT, erTma

qarTvelma artistma interviuSi erTob artistulad miTxra, rom

samSoblom daRala. da im artistul naTqvamSi ido is didi sima-

rTle, romelsac maSin, minda giTxraT, bolomde verc Cavwvdi.

axla ki Tavad vambob igives, rom damRala samSoblom. ufro sworad,

samSoblos bedukuRmarTobam da masSi mcxovrebTa usulgu-

lobam Tu kolaboracionizmma a Tu sibnelem da fuqsavatobam.


yvela is avyia da enaamosagleji

beberi kai xania, imqveynadaaa,

romelic Cems Taobas

Tavze yvaviviT dagvCxaoda. rom

Cven omi ar gvenaxa. arada, Tavad

ar enaxaT omi. omi kavkasions

gadaRma, sworedac rom

mtris miwaze midioda, isini ki

aq koleqtivis baR-bostnebis

kvlebSi goraobasa da omSi garekili

maTi Tanatolebis _

Zmebis, biZaSvilebis, mezoblebis

molodins eZaxdnen oms da

omis „naxvas”. Cven ki marTla

omi vnaxeT, Tan aqve, cxvirwin

da araerTxel. omebamde ki 9

aprilis tragedia iyo, orlesuli

niCbebiT aCexili qarTveli

gogo-biWebi. arada, sul 12

wlis viyavi, dResac maxsovs,

rogor gavigeT TbilisSi datrialebuli

tragedia sxva

kontinentidan, „amerikis xmis”

xelisuflebidan mosrialebuli

partiuli nomenklaturis

SurisZieba xelisuflebaSi dasabruneblad

da dabrundnen

kidec „umuSevrad darCenili”

SevardnaZis TamadobiT. mosaxleobis

absoluturi umravlesobis

mier arCeuli xelisuflebis

Zaladobrivi gziT, iaraRiTa

da rusuli jaris daxmarebiT

damxoba, Tanac arCevnebidan

sul ramdenime TveSi, veranairad

CaiTvleba samoqalaqo

omad marto imitom, rom mtruli

saxelmwifos mexuTe kolona

yelyelaobda, dakargul

privilegiebs mistiroda partiuli

nomenklatura, demokratias

„icavdnen” im televiziis

urcxvad aRviraxsnili Tanam-

Sromlebi, romlebsac mTeli

Tavisi cxovreba lajebi hqondaT

miSverili ceka-tekisTvis,

14

14 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

ini garbodnen da irakli RaribaSvili

saidan utevda cxinvals?

romeli mxridan? an yvela

is didi „qoci”, romelic lubiankaze

SemuSavebul am narativs

imeorebs wlebia, imeoreben ise,

rom xrtilic ar ucvdebaT

ybebSi.

imeoreben ise, rom am sibin-

Zuris gavrcelebisas arc gansvenebuls

indoben da axseneben

nika ruruas. TiTqosda mas

rusebis SeSinebodes da gaqceuliyos

saqarTvelodan.

gaqcevis braldeba araferia

im usircxvilo, aRviraxsnil

braldebasTan, rasac sakuTari

qveynis omis dawyebaSi dadana-

Sauleba warmoadgens. saqarTvelos

adanaSaulebda omis dawyebaSi

ivaniSvili da adanaSaulebda

qalbatoni, romelsac prezidentoba

lobios Sua RamiT

Wama hgonia. adanaSaulebda ra?

_ dResac adanaSaulebs. sxva

ras izams putinis daqaloCka

dankosis mier prezidentis skamze

dakosebuli politikuri

tikina?


yvelaferi martivze martivia

da cxadze cxadia, verc erTi

xelisufleba ver daiwyebs sakuTar

miwaze oms. man SeiZleba

daiwyos wesrigis aRdgena. Tu

ambob, rom omi daiwyo, ukve

Riad acxadeb, rom is miwa, sadac

es moqmedebebi daiwyo, ukve

sxva saxelmwifosia! da Tu is

miwa sxva saxelmwifoa, misi mcxovrebni

ranairadRa arian Seni

moqalaqeebi, Tu Sen lubiankidan

ar gaqvs miRebuli davaleba,

rom Tavgza aurio xalxsac

da saerTaSoriso sazogadoebasac?

aRarafers vambobT im

martiv WeSmaritebaze, rom ruseTma

daiwyo omi da saqarTvelom

daicva Tavi.

magram erTia: qveyana, romelic

mTavarsardlad gaixdis imas,

vinc mas sakuTar miwaze omis

dawyebaSi adanaSaulebda, moklebulia

Rirsebis grZnobas da

yvelafris Rirsia, Sesabamisad.

swored Rirsebis arqona

aqcevs yvela tragedias droSi

gawelil farsad.

isic vTqvaT, ramac yvela dagvRala

da xmas ver viRebT.

mTeli cxovreba gaxmaurebuli

mkvlelobebis qronikaSi vcxovrobT.

qronikaSi, saidanac bevri

gvari, ratomRac, uceb orTqldeba

da rCeba ramdenime, romelic

gvesmis erTi weli, ori

weli, sami weli, oTxi weli, gvesmis

isteriulad, ekranebidan,

mitingebidan, barikadebidan,

yvela mxridan. ratom? xSirad

marto imitom, rom ase surT iq,

lubiankaze da ase surT aq viRacebs

viRacis winaaRmdeg sabr-

Zolvelad. ase gvesmis wlebia,

ramdenime gvari, ar vasaxeleb

Segnebulad, imitom rom gansvenebulTa

brali araa, maT mkvlelobas

rom mavani iyenebs

Tavisi politikuri Tu merkantiluri

miznebisTvis. magram

damijereT, raRac namdvilad

dampalia im saxelmwifoSi, sadac

wlebis winaT specoperaciisas

moklul pirze asjer mets

da didxans laparakoben, vidre

zviad gamsaxurdias mkvlelobaze.

raRac namdvilad dampalia

im sazogadoebis cnobierebaSi,

romelsac 15 wlis winaT mokluli

axalgazrdis bedi dResac

„aRelvebs” da am wuTas

moklul „Saqaras” saqmeze mor-

Cilad Sescicinebs gamoZiebas

da elodeba, ras ver gaigeb,

rogor gamoiZieben rames Tu

rogor „gaapraveben” Carbenisas

fexis dacurebiT aragvSi vardnas.

diax, damRala samSoblom,

sadac namuss imiT aZineben, rom

gardacvlili gogos mSoblebs

aSaveben! damRala samSoblom,

sadac mkvdrebSic favoritebi

hyavT! sadac arasodes araa aqcenti

imaze, razedac unda iyos!

ase, magaliTad, erTi politikosis

vaJi meore politikosis

SviliSvils daWris da televiziebi

iseTi aplombiT acxadeben,

gegoneba, erTi osmanTa

Zlevamosili dinastiis didebuli

warmomadgenel suleimanis

vaJi _ Sexzade mustafa iyos

da mis mier daWrili ki Cingiz

yaenis SviliSvili. ise misdeven

Tanatolis daWraSi braldebuls,

gegoneba, darubandis kari

Camoexsnas, Camoetanos, es-esaa

daedos da midiodes!

damRala samSoblom, ufro

sworad, misma xalxma, romelsac

SurisZieba amoqmedebs! ufro

sworad, SurisZieba erT muWa

xalxs amoqmedebs, danarCeni asdeven

_ Tu gamorCeniT, Tu muqTad,

viTarca idiotni sasargebloni.

1991-92 wlebSi partiulma

nomenklaturam ganaxorciela

SurisZieba da daamxo xelisufleba.

„vardebis revoluciiT”

istoriis sanagveze mosrolilebma

ki mxolod 9 wlis

Tavze moaxerxes revanSi da am

revanSis Sedegebs vimkiT dResac.

aRarafers vambob imaze, rom

am qveyanaSi sul raRac hgoniaT,

uSveben Secdomas, akeTeben

mudam araswor arCevans, mere

viTom xvdebian, magram uaress

sCadian da amasobaSi gadis cxovreba...

gadis usixarulod.

amerikelebs konstituciaSi uweriaT,

rom maT ufleba aqvT bednierebis.

Cven romc CavweroT,

mainc ar mivcemT Tavs amis uflebas.

dRes, postkarantinul epoqaSi, saqarTveloSi

Tengiz abloTia

erT-erTi yvelaze mwvave sakiTxia sazRvrebis gaxsna.

am Temaze politikur WrilSi gadasuli cxare

diskusiebia, rac gasakviri araa, jer erTi, imitom, rom saqarTveloSi yve-

laferi da yovelTvis politizebulia, meorec _ male saparlamento arCevnebia.

ra Tqma unda, SegviZlia warmovidginoT,

rom iseve rogorc saqarTvelos,

mTel msoflios borotebis simboloebi

marTaven da maTi mizanic sakuTari

qveynebis dangrevaa; rom mTeli msoflio

politikuri elita putinze muSaobs,

maT Soris, Tavad putinic, romelmac

Tavisi qveyana saqarTveloze yrud

Caketa da iq mosaxleobis mdgomareoba

gacilebiT gauaresda.

magram realobas Tvali unda gavusworoT:

sakiTxi _ gavxsnaT Tu ara sazRvrebi?

_ dRes mTel msoflioSi iseTive

aqtualuria rogorc _ saqarTveloSi.

da es sulac ar niSnavs „qarTuli ocnebis”

mmarTvelobis legitimurobis

aRiarebas, ubralod, es faqtia da meti

araferi.

am Temaze msoflioSi, iseve rogorc

saqarTveloSi, erTiani midgoma ar arsebobs.

zogierTi qveyana ixsneba, zogierTi

_ ara, zogi metad, zogi naklebad.

es individualuri arCevania, romelsac

yvela qveyana Tavad akeTebs da saparlamento

arCevnebi saqarTveloSi aq

arafer SuaSia.

magaliTad, saberZneTi mTlianad gaixsna

evrokavSiris qveynebis moqalaqeebisTvis

da berZnuli kurortebi turistebiT

gaivso maSin, rodesac venecia,

romi, nica da barselona jerac carielia.

albaT, italiis, espaneTisa da safrangeTis

mTavrobebi sakuTari qveynebis

daqcevaze ocneboben.

am kamaTSi yvelas aviwydeba erTi,

sazRvris gaxsnas aravin moiTxovs.

azerbaijani, somxeTi, TurqeTi, ruseTi,

ukraina, yazaxeTi, irani _ swored

esaa saqarTveloSi ucxoeli turistebis

mTavari wyaro da ara espaneTi an

safrangeTi.

am Temis Sesaxeb azrebi gaiyo, rac

aseve gasagebia _ erT mxarezea epidemiis

ganmeorebiTi talRis riski, meoreze

ki _ komaSi Cavardnili turistuli seqtori.

moqalaqeTa nawili miiCnevs, rom

qveynis gaxsna dauSvebelia _ amaze Tundac

is metyvelebs, rom axali dainficirebis

SemTxvevebis didi nawili ucxoelebze,

kerZod ki, trailerebis

mZRolebze modis.

am viTarebaSi sazRvrebis gaxsnis

pirobebSi daavadebulTa raodenobis

zrda TiTqmis gardauvalia da es realuri

safrTxea.

Tumca, meore mxriv, bolo wlebSi

turistul industriaSi kolosaluri

Tanxa Caido da dRes mTeli es investiciebi

zaralze gadis, asobiT aTasi

adamiani ki Semosavlis gareSe darCa.

es aseve danarCen moqalaqeebze iribad

moqmedebs _ turistulma industriam,

Tavisi moculobisa da gavlenis

gamo, bunebrivad dominos principi

aamoqmeda _ am dargSi dasaqmebulma

asobiT aTasma adamianma xarjebi Seamcira,

sxvadasxva saqonels naklebad

yidulobs, binebis sayidlad ipoTekur

sesxebs aRar iRebs da a. S.

faqtia, rom qveyanas saswrafod sWirdeba

sazRvrebis gaxsna.

opoziciurad ganwyobili adamianebi

dRevandel Caketilobasac arCevnebs abraleben,

Tumca veravin xsnis _ xelisuflebas

principuli arCevnebis win sakuTari

moqalaqeebis SimSiliT daxocva

risTvis unda awyobdes? amis sasargeblod

mxolod erTi argumenti arsebobs

_ radikaluri antiqocebis uryevi

rwmena, rom biZina Tavad borotebis

gansaxierebaa da kremlis davalebiT

qveynis saboloo dangrevas apirebs.

am Temaze SeiZleboda Tundac Teoriuli

debatebi, es saerTaSoriso problema

rom ar iyos. sayovelTao daxurva

da TviTizolacia „qarTuli ocnebis”

gamogonili fenomeni namdvilad araa,

is mxolod zedmetad bejiTad akeTebs

imas, rasac _ mTeli msoflio.

sazRvrebi da putini

yvelaze mTavari sakiTxi: ZiriTadad

saubaria evropis qveynebTan sazRvrebis

gaxsnaze, magram, ratomRac, yvelas

aviwydeba, rom evropa saqarTvelosTvis

mTavari turistuli mimarTuleba arasdros

yofila.

is yovelTvis iyo sasurveli da perspeqtiuli,

bolo periodSi sakmaod

swrafad mzardi, Tumca, mainc meorexarisxovani

partniori. CvenTan bevri

evropeli turisti arasdros Camodioda

da amas saqarTvelos, rogorc kovid-usafrTxo

qveynis, imiji ver Secvlis

_ adamianebi ucxo qveynebSi mxolod

maTi epidemiologiuri usafrTxoebis

gamo ar Cadian.

saberZneTSic ki, romelic evropuli

turizmis erT-erTi mTavari mimarTulebaa,

sazRvrebis gaxsnis miuxedavad,

vizitorebis simcires uCivian. xval

Tbilisma romc gaxsnac sazRvari evrokavSiris

yvela qveyanasTan da aviafrenebis

Zveli intensiuroba aRadginos,

naklebad savaraudoa, rom aman qarTuli

turistuli industria gadaarCinos.

ai, Cvens ZiriTad turistul partniorebze

ki sazogadoebaSi araviTari

diskusia ar mimdinareobs _ am sakiTxSi

sruli konsensusi sufevs da maTTan

samwuxarod, yvela am qveyanaSi koronavirusis

pandemia Cveuli ZaliT boboqrobs

da iq epidemias bolo ar uCans.

Sesabamisad, arc qarTul turistul

industrias eSveleba rame manam, sanam

situacia am qveynebSi ar dastabilurdeba.

saqarTvelo, rogorc yovelTvis,

gamrudebul samyaroSi cxovrobs _

mTeli qveyana evropis gaxsnas iTxovs

maSin, rodesac amas TiTqmis araviTari

praqtikuli mniSvneloba ar gaaCnia.

paralelurad, aRSfoTebas isic

iwvevs, rom saqarTvelos moqalaqeebs

qveynis datoveba TiTqmis akrZaluli

aqvT. amas arCevnebs ukavSireben da isev

gaugebaria, ratom? da ra SuaSia qveynis

moqalaqeebis Caketva arCevnebTan?

ra Tqma unda, xelisuflebis arc er-

Ti maRalCinosani amas Riad arasdros

aRiarebs, magram am midgomis saidumlos

amocnobac Zneli saqme araa _ qarTvelebi

ucxour kurortebze yovelwliurad

300 mln. dolars xarjaven.

dRes dolarebi deficituria _

mTavrobasa da erovnul banks laris

kursi kbilebiT uWiravs. da amas isini

gacilebiT ufro mniSvnelovan prioritetad

miiCneven, vidre qarTuli bur-

Juaziis dasvenebas gaiafebul berZnul

kurortebze.

Tanac Sida turizmsac daxmareba

sWirdeba _ vinc ucxoeTSi ver wava,

iZulebuli iqneba, saqarTveloSi daisvenos.

amas SeiZleba daveTanxmoT, SeiZleba

_ ara, magram Tavisi krizisuli

logika am qmedebebSi calsaxad arsebobs.

da putini aq namdvilad arafer Sua-

Sia.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

15


`2020 wlis arCevnebSi

„Cemi azri iyo, rom yvela nam-

nene injgia

dvili opoziciuri Zala gaer-

591 71 39 98

Tianebuliyo da gaekeTebina er-

Tiani saparlamento sia. amaze

uari Tqves, rac Zalian cudia. axla „nacionalurma moZraobam”

unda ikisros is, rac unda gaekeTebina saerTo sias. „naciona-

lurma moZraobam” unda moigos erTpirovnulad es arCevnebi

da amaSi darwmunebuli varT, rom asec iqneba. kargia, rom „nacionaluri

moZraoba” TbilisSi SeTanxmda maJoritarebis gayofaze

imis gamo, rom TbilisSi cota ufro specifikuri situ-

aciaa, Torem TbilisSic darwmunebuli var, rom „nacionaluri

moZraoba” yvelas mougebs, imitom rom grigol vaSaZem moigo

arCevnebi TbilisSi, magram axla „nacionaluri moZraoba” moi-

gebs yvelgan maJoritarul arCevnebs saqarTveloSi.

iseTi seriozuli xalxi modis

CvenTan maJoritarebad, adre

gamoxedvac rom ar undodaT Cvenken.

Cvenc yuradRebiT SevarCevT,

rom ar Semogveparos cudi reputaciis

xalxi, magram modian Zalian

saintereso figurebi da axlos ver

mova sxva veravin erTian „nacionalur

moZraobasTan”, amis Sesaxeb

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„evropulma saqarTvelom” regionebSi

maJoritari kandidatebis sia

waradgina, romelTa Soris arian

partiis liderebi gigi ugulava da

giga bokeria.

azianebs Tu ara mixeil saakaS-

vilis gancxadebebi opoziciur

speqtrs? ramdenad swori strate-

giiT moqmedebs „nacionaluri

moZraoba”? momgebiani iqneba Tu

ara da ras emsaxureba „evropuli

saqarTvelos” gadawyvetileba ma-

Joritar kandidatad partiis

liderebis wardgenasTan dakav-

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ara ivaniSvilis misamarTiT pira-

di sanqciebi dasavleTis mier?

am da sxva mniSvnelovani Temebis

Sesaxeb „qronika+” polito-

log gia nodias esaubra:

_ batono gia, „axali saqarTve-

los” liderma giorgi vaSaZem da

partia „kanoni da samarTlis”

damfuZnebelma Tako Carkvianma

gaerTianeba „Zala erTobaSia” da-

toves da axali politikuri

platforma „strategia aRmaSenebeli”

Camoayalibes. Tqveni Se-

fasebiT ra procesebi daiwyo

opoziciur speqtrSi da opozici-

uri erToba, faqtobrivad, arc

arsebobs?

_ erToba arc arasdros arsebula.

erToba iqneboda erTiani

sia, magram msgavsi arc ganxilula.

erToba iyo, pirvel rigSi, saarCevno

sakiTxebisa da politpatimrebis

Temis garSemo, magram ar

yofila proeqti, rom opozicia

erTad gasuliyo arCevnebze. erTaderTi,

zogadi SeTanxmeba iyo, rom

maJoritarul olqebSi daeyenebinaT

saerTo kandidatebi. esec mxolod,

nawilobriv, TbilisSi Sesrulda

da TbilisSic mxolod

opoziciis nawili icavs am SeTanxmebas.

magaliTad, „lelo”, elisaSvilis

partia da sxvebi am SeTanxmebidan

gavidnen. ase rom, winasaarCevno

TvalsazrisiT opoziciis

erToba ar arsebobs. maincdamainc

amis didi Sansi arc iyo. miT

umetes, saarCevno kanonmdebloba,

saxeldobr, 1%-iani zRvari yvelanairad

xels uwyobs imas, rom

mcire partias motivacias uqmnis,

rom ufro didi gaerTianebebidan

gavidnen. giorgi vaSaZis gasvla

„Zala erTobaSiadan” uSualod amas

ukavSirdeba. albaT, mosalodnelic

iyo da bunebrivia, rom opozicia

arCevnebs mravali sxvadasxva

jgufis saxiT xvdeba. es, garkveulad,

sisustis STabeWdilebas qmnis

_ qarTveli amomrCeveli SeCveulia,

rom erTi ZiriTadi opoziciuri

Zala unda iyos. saparlamento

sistema amis aucileblobas ar

qmnis. SeiZleba, bevri opoziciuri

jgufi iyos, magram isini mzad iyvnen

TanamSromlobisTvis arCevnebis

Semdeg, rom koaliciuri mTavroba

Seqmnan. Tu aseTi mzaoba arsebobs

da es aSkarad Cans, maSin es

normaluria saparlamento sistemisTvis,

Tumca Cveni amomrCeveli

amas didad SeCveuli ar aris. tradiciulad

miiCneva, rom saWiroa

erTi ZiriTadi opoziciuri Zala.

_ vaSaZis „Zala erTobaSiadan”

gamosvlas „nacionaluri moZrao-

bis” zogierTi lideri, vaSaZis

naTesauri kavSiridan gamomdinare,

vano CxartiSvilis interesebis

gatarebas ukavSirebs. ram-

denad realisturi ggoniaT es?

unda iTqvas isic, rom 2018 wlis

saprezidento arCevnebze, swored,

giorgi vaSaZe iyo „Zala erToba-

Sias” kandidat grigol vaSaZis

saarCevno Stabis ufrosi.

_ rodesac vaSaZe romelime

politikuri gaerTianebidan gadis,

ixseneben, rom vano CxartiSvilTan

aris dakavSirebuli. rodesac

vaSaZe, gaerTianeba „Zala erToba-

SiaSi” Sedioda, maSin vano CxartiSvilis

faqtori aqtualuri ar iyo.

eWvebi yovelTvis yvelaze SeiZleba

arsebobdes, magram Tu am eWvs

konkretuli sabuTi ar axlavs, ma-

Sin mas arc mniSvneloba da arc

Zala ar gaaCnia. Cemi STabeWdilebiT,

giorgi vaSaZe aris Zalian

ambiciuri adamiani, mas liderobis

pretenzia aqvs da yvelafers

akeTebs imisTvis, rom sakuTari

politikuri Sansebi gazardos. man,

rogorc ki dainaxa, rom mis partias,

sxvasTan SedarebiT, maRali

reitingi aqvs, aqedan gamomdinare,

miiCnia, rom ratom unda iyos

politikur gaerTianeba „Zala er-

TobaSias” wevri, sadac mixeil saakaSvili

da „nacionaluri moZraoba”

dominirebs? vaSaZem ifiqra,

rom calke moipovebs garkveuli

raodenobis adgils parlamentSi,

2, 3 an 4-s da Semdeg ukve parlamentis

SigniT ufro karg savaWro

mdgomareobaSi iqneba, rodesac koaliciuri

mTavrobis Seqmnaze daiwyeba

saubari. amiT sakmarisad kargad

aixsneba vaSaZis qmedebebi.

_ premierobis kandidatze aq-

tiurad saubroben „nacionalur

moZraobaSic”. nawils mixeil

saakaSvilis dasaxeleba surs premierobis

kandidatad. arCevnebamde

sami TviT adre ramdenad gamarTlebulia

am Temis aseTi in-

tensivobiT ganxilva?

_ marTalia, „nacionaluri

gia nodia:

`nacionalur

moZraobaSi~ rasac

saakaSvili ityvis,

is unda gakeTdes~

moZraoba” opoziciur partiebs

Soris yvelaze didi da Zlieria,

magram rodesac bevri opoziciuri

partiaa, mgoni, premier-ministrobis

kandidatebze saubari araproduqtiulia,

radgan faqtia,

rom ver SeTanxmdebian da ufro es

aris qiSpi opoziciur partiebs

Soris. vaSaZis mier sakuTari Tavis

potenciur premierad dasaxeleba

cota komikur elfers iZens. roca

2-3% aqvs reitingi partias da acxadebs,

rom Tavad unda iyos premieri,

es, mgoni, ufro winasaarCevno

xrikia, rom misi persona

ufro gamoCndes amomrCevlis TvalSi,

rom is aris adamiani, romelsac

premierobis pretenzia aqvs,

amiT ufro met amomrCevels miizidavs

da daarwmunebs maT, rom is

seriozuli politikuri Zalaa. „nacionalur

moZraobas” pretenzia

rom hqondes misi partiidan premierobis

kandidaobaze es bunebrivia,

radgan is yvelaze msxvili

opoziciuri partiaa da amas aravin

uaryofs, Tumca maincdamainc Wkvianuri

maTi mxridan axla amaze xazgasma

ar iqneba. albaT, „nacionalur

moZraobas” kidev erTxel

unda amomrCevlisTvis imis Sexseneba,

rom is aris mTavari opoziciuri

Zala da Tu vinme SeZlebs

„qarTuli ocnebis” damarcxebas,

pirvel rigSi, isini.

_ rogor fiqrobT, „naciona-

luri moZraoba” 2020 wlis

arCevnebze mTavari opoziciuri

Zalis statusis SesanarCuneblad

ibrZvis?

_ ar mgonia, rom „nacionalur

moZraobas” am TvalsazrisiT didi

safrTxe emuqrebodes da imis albaToba

iyos, rom romelime opoziciurma

partiam am arCevnebze „nacionalur

moZraobaze” meti xma

aiRos. magram, rogorc Cans, mainc

„nacionalur moZraobasa” da, pirvel

rigSi, piradad saakaSvils

maqsimalurad unda imis xazgasma,

rom isini arian mTavari da rom „nacionaluri

moZraobis” imiji ar

Caikargos opoziciuri partiebis

simravleSi. amiT aris gamowveuli

saakaSvilis ucnauri gancxadeba,

rom „nacionalurma moZraobam”

`rodesac vaSaZe romelime politikuri

gaerTianebidan gadis, ixseneben, rom vano

CxartiSvilTan aris dakavSirebuli. rodesac

vaSaZe, gaerTianeba `Zala erTobaSiaSi~

Sedioda, maSin vano CxartiSvilis faqtori

aqtualuri ar iyo. eWvebi yovelTvis yvelaze

SeiZleba arsebobdes, magram Tu am eWvs

konkretuli sabuTi ar axlavs, maSin mas arc

mniSvneloba da arc Zala ar gaaCnia. Cemi

STabeWdilebiT, giorgi vaSaZe aris Zalian

ambiciuri adamiani, mas liderobis pretenzia

aqvs da yvelafers akeTebs imisTvis, rom

sakuTari politikuri Sansebi gazardos~

martom unda moigos arCevnebi. imedi

maqvs, saakaSvils esmis, rom es

SeuZlebelia. aseve vimedovneb, rom

is imdenad ar mowydomia qarTul

sinamdviles, rom sruliad daekarga

realobis gancda, magram, rogorc

Cans, es aris misi ZiriTadi

motivi, xazi gausvas, rom „nacionaluri

moZraoba” ZiriTadi opoziciuri

Zalaa da am statuss araferi

emuqreba. Tumca es SeiZleba

araproduqtiuli iyos saboloo

miznis misaRwevad, anu arCevnebSi

„qarTuli ocnebis” damarcxebis

kuTxiT, radgan aseTi ritorika

„qarTul ocnebas” imis Tqmas uadvilebs,

rom an „qarTuli ocneba”

an „nacionaluri moZraoba”. faqtobrivad,

am kuTxiT „qarTuli

ocnebisa” da „nacionaluri moZraobis”

interesebi erTmaneTs emTxveva.

„qarTuli ocneba” TviTon

fiqrobs, _ misTvis sasargebloa,

rom misi ZiriTadi mowinaaRmdegea

„nacionaluri moZraoba” da sxva

opoziciur Zalebs mniSvneloba ar

aqvs. „nacionaluri moZraoba” da,

gansakuTrebiT, piradad, saakaSvili

maqsimalurad cdiloben

igive Tqvan, _ an „qarTuli ocneba”,

an _ „nacionaluri moZraoba”

da sxva opoziciuri partiebi meorexarisxovani

moTamaSeebi arian.

_ 2012 wlidan, yoveli arCevn-

ebis win, am scenars vuyurebT.

bolo periodSi gamomdinare

iqidan, razedac isaubreT, gaaqti-

urda mosazreba, rom saakaSvili

da ivaniSvili mokavSireebi arian.

eTanxmebiT am versias?

_ ivaniSvilsa da saakaSvils

Soris pirdapiri TanamSromloba

Zneli warmosadgenia, radgan „qarTuli

ocnebis” misamarTiT mTeli

mxardaWera imazea, rom es aris

antisaakaSvili da anti „nacionaluri

moZraoba”. ar mgonia, rom

aseTi kavSiri SesaZlebeli iyos.

raRac sakiTxebze viRacam iqneb

imsjelos kidec, magram principuli

TanamSromloba am partiebs

Soris, Cemi azriT, gamoricxulia.

am SemTxvevaSi mgonia, rom interesTa

erTgvari Tanxvedraa, anu „nacionalur

moZraobas” awyobs, rom

is iyos mTavari opoziciuri Zala,

es ki „qarTuli ocnebisTvisac” momgebiania.

_ Tqven saubris dasawyisSi

aRniSneT, rom sazogadoeba

miCveulia opoziciur erTobas. es

erToba dRevandeli mocemulo-

biT ar arsebobs. am faqtors, rom

es dakveTa ver sruldeba, ra gavlena

eqneba 2020 wlis saparlamen-

to arCevnebze?

16

16 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


arafris garantiebi ar arsebobs~

_ TavisTavad es ar aris momgebiani

opoziciisTvis, magram arc

tragikulia, radgan yvela opoziciurma

partiam, maT Soris, „nacionalurma

moZraobam”, unda daarwmunos

amomrCeveli, rom axali saarCevno

sistemis pirobebSi savsebiT

SesaZlebelia samTavrobo partiis

damarcxeba da Semdeg koaliciuri

sistemis Seqmna. maT unda

auxsnan amomrCevels, rom saarCevno

sistema Seicvala, Sesabamisad,

mTlianad saxelisuflebo sistemac

axal pirobebSi aris, sadac es

Cveulebrivi ambavia. SesaZloa, amomrCevlisTvis

aRniSnuli uCveuloa,

magram aq umaRlesi maTematika

ar aris. ase rom, am nawilSi

amomrCevlis darwmuneba savsebiT

SesaZlebelia. ubralod, Zalian sasurvelia,

rom opoziciurma partiebma

meti isaubron amaze da

metad gamoxaton mzaoba, rom er-

Tiani koaliciuri mTavroba Sei-

Zleba Seqmnan arCevnebis Semdeg.

_ opoziciuri partiebi

arCevnebis Semdeg rom Seqmnian

koalicias, amisaTvis unda arsebobdes

Tu ara winaswar SeTanxme-

ba, Tundac, memorandumis saxiT?

garkveuli tipis garantia xom

unda iyos?

_ am SemTxvevaSi garantia xelmowerili

xelSekruleba ar iqneba

da garantia ver iarsebebs, magram

zogadad momgebiani iqneba, Tu

opoziciuri partiebi amas xmamaRla

ganacxadeben, rom isini ar

apireben „qarTul ocnebasTan” koaliciaSi

Sesvlas. zogierTi, gansakuTrebiT

mcire opoziciuri

partia, uars ambobs, rom aseTi

gancxadeba sajarod gaakeTos. es,

ra Tqma unda, mTlianobaSi asustebs

opozicias, magram ar gamoricxavs,

rom igive partiebi, romlebic

amas ar acxadeben, axal koaliciur

(opoziciur) mTavrobaSi

Sevidnen, sadac ar iqneba „qarTuli

ocneba”. am arCevnebSi saerTod

arafris garantiebi ar arsebobs.

_ opoziciuri erToba ver

Sedga. kuluaruli informaciiT,

„nacionalur moZraobaSi” ivaniS-

vilis dasamarcxebel formulad

saakaSvilis winasarCevnod Camosvlas

ganixilaven. es ramdenad re-

alisturi scenari ggoniaT?

_ Znelad warmomidgenia, rom

saakaSvili arCevnebamde Camovides.

SesaZloa, misma Camosvlam raRac

gavlena moaxdinos, magram ar mgonia,

rom movlenebi ase ganvi-

Tardes. Tu amomrCeveli arCevnebs

aRiqvams, rogorc calsaxad arCevans

ivaniSvilsa da saakaSvils

Soris, es ukiduresad wamgebiani

iqneba opoziciisTvis da Seamcirebs

arCevnebSi opoziciis gamarjvebis

Sanss.

_ am nawils iazrebs Tu ara

saTanadod mixeil saakaSvili?

_ darwmunebuli var, saakaSvili

ase ar xedavs. misTvis calsaxaa,

rom aseTi unda iyos gzavnili, rom

an isini an _ ivaniSvili. danarCen

opoziciur partiebTanac SeiZleba

TanamSromloba, magram es meorexarisxovania.

„nacionaluri mo-

Zraoba” iZulebulia, im xazs gahyves,

romelsac saakaSvili wyvets.

SigniT, xelmZRvanelobaSi, „nacionalur

moZraobaSi”, bevri SeiZleba

amas eWvis TvaliTac uyurebdes

da es ar moswondes, magram „nacionaluri

moZraoba” mainc erT

liderze morgebuli partiaa da

amitom rasac saakaSvili ityvis, is

unda gakeTdes.

_ mmarTvelma gundma 30 ma-

`nacionalur moZraobasa~ da, pirvel rigSi, piradad saakaSvils maqsimalurad

unda imis xazgasma, rom isini arian mTavari da rom `nacionaluri moZraobis~

imiji ar Caikargos opoziciuri partiebis simravleSi. amiT aris gamowveuli

saakaSvilis ucnauri gancxadeba, rom `nacionalurma moZraobam~ martom unda

moigos arCevnebi. imedi maqvs, saakaSvils esmis, rom es SeuZlebelia~

Joritarul olqSi Tavisi kandidatebi

daasaxela, ramdenad Zlierad

gamoiyureba „qarTuli oc-

neba” am nawilSi da aseve maTi

mTavari xelCasaWidi gzavnilia

„kovid-19-is” warmatebiT marTva.

es ramdenad efeqtiani iqneba maT-

Tvis arCevnebze?

_ „kovid-19-is” pandemiasTan

brZolaSi warmateba yvelaze aSkara

warmatebaa, romlisTvisac am 8

wlis manZilze „qarTul ocnebas”

miuRwevia. amitom is cdilobs,

maqsimaluri gamoadnos am warmatebidan,

yovel SemTxvevaSi, xalxis

TvalSi. viRacam SeiZleba es warmatebad

ar CaTvalos, magram umravlesobis

TvalSi es warmatebaa.

amiT axali politikuri kapitali

daagrova „qarTulma ocnebam”. igi

cdilobs, es kapitali maqsimalurad

gamoiyenos. maincdamainc sxva

kapitali mas ar gaaCnia da riT moiwonos

Tavi?! amitom amiT iwonebs

Tavs. efeqtiani iqneba Tu ara es

strategia, amas arCevnebi gviCvenebs,

magram, rogorc Cans, sxva

strategia maT am momentisTvis,

ubralod, ar aqvT. TiTqos, es pandemia

„ocnebas” RmerTma gadmougdo

da amis meSveobiT undaT reitingis

gaumjobeseba. rac Seexeba ma-

Joritar kandidatebs, „qarTuli

ocnebis” azriT kandidatebis vinaoba

meorexarisxovania, anu xalxis

xmas miscems an ar miscems

„qarTuli ocnebis” kandidats da

konkretulad vin iqneba is, amas

didi mniSvneloba ar aqvs.

_ am nawilSi sianteresoa is,

rom genderuli kvotebis Semomtanma

partiam mxolod erTi maJ-

oritarobis kandidati qali daasaxela,

raze metyvelebs es faq-

ti?

_ erTi SexedviT, es paradoqsia,

magram, meore mxriv, gasakviri

araferia im TvalsazrisiT, rom

Cven yvelam viciT, _ genderuli

kvotebis SemoReba ar iyo „qarTuli

ocnebis” mrwamsis Sedegi, es iyo

vaWroba dasavleTTan. aris raRac

rekomendaciebi, romelTagan

mmarTveli gundi zogs Seasrulebda,

zogs _ ara. ruruas ar gamouSvebdnen,

samagierod, kvotebs SemoiRebdnen.

am logikas emyareboda

„qarTuli ocnebis” qmedeba. maT

undaT, iseTi STabeWdileba Seqmnan,

miuxedavad didi kritikisa,

ìvaniSvilsa da saakaSvils Soris pirdapiri

TanamSromloba Zneli warmosadgenia, radgan

`qarTuli ocnebis~ misamarTiT mTeli

mxardaWera imazea, rom es aris

antisaakaSvili da anti `nacionaluri

moZraoba~. ar mgonia, rom aseTi kavSiri

SesaZlebeli iyos~

romelic dasavleTidan aris, isini

raRac rekomendaciebs asruleben.

samagierod, amis xarjze sxva

maTTvis ufro mniSvnelovans ar

Seasruleben. genderuli kvotebi

„qarTuli ocnebisTvis” ar iyo

mniSvnelovani imitom, rom maTTvis

mTavaria, erTguli deputatebi

hyavdeT parlamentSi, romlebic

esemes-s rom miiReben, imis mixedviT

dauWeren mxars ama Tu im

kanonproeqts. es parlamentari,

qali iqneba Tu kaci, amas biZina

ivaniSvilisTvis mniSvneloba ar

aqvs. maT CaTvales, rom saerTa-

Soriso Tanamegobrobis winaSe

vali ukve moixades, roca genderuli

kvotebi miiRes da axla maT

mimarT ukve am xaziT aranairi pretenzia

ar unda iyos.

_ aseve maJoritarobis kandi-

datebi waradgina gasul kviras

„evropulma saqarTvelom”, rome-

lTa Soris arian gigi ugulava da

giga bokeria. ramdenad efeqtiania

maTi es strategia? am politi-

kosebis kandidatebad wardgena

ras aZlevs „evropul saqarTve-

los”?

_ mgoni, es „evropuli saqarTvelos”,

rogorc partiis agebis erTerTi

principia, rom Tu xar lideri,

unda daamtkico kidec es lideroba,

ara ubralod imiT, rom

partiis SigniT pativs gcemen,

aramed imiT, rom SegiZlia warmatebas

miaRwio arCevnebSi pirovnuladac.

es xazi hqondaT wina

arCevnebSic, vgulisxmob adgilobriv

arCevnebs, rom partiis SigniT

pirovnebis wona ukavSirdeba imas,

Tu ra warmatebas aRwevs is ma-

Joritarul arCevnebSi. es maTi

principia da fiqroben, rom jansa-

Ri principia partiis asagebad.

rogorc Cans, aqedan gamomdinare

CaiTvala, rom partiis liderebi

moralurad valdebulebi arian,

maJoritarul arCevnebSi miiRon

monawileoba da amiT daamtkicon

TavianTi unarianoba, rogorc

liderebma.

_ pragmatuli TvalsazrisiT

ramdenad momgebiani iqneba maTi

es xedva?

_ es unda vnaxoT arCevnebze.

gasagebia, rom yvelaze didi kiTxvebi

gaaCina giga bokerias kandidatad

dasaxelebam, radgan miiCneva,

rom is ar aris popularuli

pirovneba farTo masebSi da es imiji

Tan sdevs mas. rogorc Cans, man

CaTvala, rom unda SeebrZolos am

warmodgenas da Tavi Seamowmos,

ramdenad SeuZlia aseT brZolaSi

Cabma? SeiZleboda gveTqva, rom

liderebi, zogadad, partiul

siaze unda iyvnen koncentrirebulebi

da sxva figurebs miscen

maJoritaruli olqebi, magram, meore

mxriv, amas Tavisi minusebi

aqvs, radgan TiTqos liderebs eSiniaT

maJoritarul brZolebSi

Cabma. rogorc Cans, „evropuli

saqarTvelos” liderebs ar undodaT

es STabeWdileba SeeqmnaT, rom

isini ubralod partiuli liderebi

arian da ara _ xalxis.

_ amis paralelrad, SesaZloa,

aSS-ma saqarTvelos finansuri

daxmarebis 15% SeuCeros, gasul

kviras ki aSS-is Tavdacvis aqts

saqarTvelos sakiTxze punqtebi

daemata, romelic gansazRvravs,

ra vadebSi unda ganixilos aSS-is

saxelmwifo mdivanma da warudgi-

nos kongress angariSi saqarTve-

loSi arsebuli mdgomareobis

Sesaxeb. ramdenad adekvaturad

aRiqvams dasavleTidan gzav-

nilebs mmarTveli gundi maSin,

roca lobistebsa da „nacionalur

moZraobas” abralebs dasavleTis

kritikul ganwyobas da ra roli

eqneba mas 2020 wlis arCevnebze?

_ roca xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi

amboben, rom kritika

lobisturi jgufebis muSaobis

Sedegia, es, ra Tqma unda, absoluturad

araadekvaturia. me ar vici,

marTla sjeraT amisi Tu, ubralod,

Tavis momxreebs awynareben

amiT. mgonia, viRacebs esmiT, rom

es sisulelea, magram mainc laparakoben

amas; viRacebs SeiZleba mar-

Tla sjeraT, rom lobistebs uxdian

fuls da amiT aRweven am

Sedegs opozicionerebi, rom dasavleTidan

iyos kritika „qarTuli

ocnebis” xelisuflebis misamar-

TiT. saboloo jamSi, maT, albaT,

esmiT, rom xelisuflebisTvis dasavleTTan

urTierTobis gauareseba

seriozuli ambavia. erTi

mxriv, isini maqsimalurad Seecdebian,

STabeWdileba Seqmnan, rom

dasavleTTan karg urTierTobaSi

arian da maT rekomendaciebs

iTvaliswineben, rogorc genderuli

kvotebis SemTxvevaSi gaiTvaliswines.

meore mxriv, Tavs aarideben

arCevnebis dros TvalsaCino

darRvevebs. imedia, aseTi Sedegi

eqneba dasavleTis did yuradRebas

am arCevnebis mimarT, magram es ar

gamorcxavs, rom kulisebSi maqsimalurad

ecdebian ganaxorcielon

zewola amomrCevelze administraciuli

meTodebis gamoyenebiT,

mosyidviT da a. S., es yovelTvis

mainc Sefarulad xdeba da xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi ase Seecdebian

maqsimumis gakeTebas, rom

warmatebas miaRwion, Tundac,

ukanono gziT.

_ opozicia miiCnevs, rom Tu

ivaniSvili piradi sanqciebis safrTxis

winaSe dadgeba, es gadam-

wyveti aRmoCndeba da opoziciis

sasargeblod mniSvnelovan rols

Seasrulebs. Tqveni SefasebiT,

ramdenad realuria, rom piradi

sanqciebis safrTxis winaSe dadg-

es ivaniSvili da aman arsebiTad

Secvalos arCevnebis Sedegebi?

_ amas ar gamovricxav, savsebiT

SesaZlebelia, ase iyos. ra Tqma

unda, ivaniSvilisTvis ukiduresad

arasasiamovno iqneba piradi sanqciebi

da is maqsimalurad Seecdeba,

Tavi aaridos movlenebis aseT

ganviTarebas.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

17


`cxinvalis regionSi omi

avadsaxsenebeli agvistos omi-

Sorena marsagiSvili

dan 12 weli gavida. 12 welia,

599 92 16 22

qarTlis guls ucxotomelebi

daepatronen da miwasTan asworeben

qarTul soflebs. baR-venaxebic ki amoZirkves. mx-

olod saflavebisTvis da eklesiebisTvis ver gabedes xelis

xleba. am omidan 12 weliwadi gavida da saqarTveloSi isev

imaze kamaToben, Tu vin daiwyo omi. ruseTumeebi da meocnebee-

bi omis dawyebaSi qarTul mxares adanaSauleben. im xalxisTvis,

vinc qarTuli saxelmwifoebriobis mteri gavrilovi spikeris

savarZelSi dasva, samSoblos dacva danaSaulis tolfasia.

es omi sakuTar Tavze gada-

itana badri basiSvilma. sofel

kexvSi gazrdili biWisTvis omi

bevrad adre daiwyo. mas kar-

gad axsovs gasuli saukunis 90-

ian wlebSi rogor wydeboda

skolebSi saswavlo procesi,

radgan mowinaaRmdege qarTuli

soflebis dacxrilvas iw-

yebda. agvistos

omidan

cocxalma Zlivs gamoaRwia.

okupantebma da osebma mamami-

si aiyvanes tyved da cnobil

os „boevik” marek dudaevSi

iTxovdnen mis gacvlas. basiS-

vilebma am gacvlaze uari

Tqves. qarTvelebis seriuli

mkvleli dudaevi cixeSi dar-

Ca, sanam xelisuflebaSi

„qarTuli ocneba” ar movida.

saocnebo xelisuflebam osi

„boeviki” cxinvalSi didi pa-

tiviT Caiyvana. basiSvils ar

ukvirs meocnebeTa damokidebuleba

am omis mimarT. is imed-

iT cxovrobs, rom aucileblad

dabrundeba mSobliur mxareSi,

romelic axla rusebis sawvrT-

nel poligonad iqca.

rodis daiwyo omi cxinvalis

regionSi? rogor cxovrobdnen

agvistos

konfliqtamde

qarTvelebi iq? unda gaeca Tu

ara saqarTvelos xelisufle-

bas okupantebisTvis pasuxi?

ra mdgomareobaSia okupire-

bul teritoriebze qarTuli

soflebi? raze ocneboben cxinvalis

regionidan devnile-

bi? _ am Temebis Sesaxeb „qronika+”-s

„nacionaluri moZrao-

bis” erT-erTi lideri, badri

basiSvili esaubreba:

_ agvistos omidan 12 weliwadi

gavida da dRemde ar wy-

deba polemika, Tu vin daiwyo

es omi. Tqven cxinvalis regionSi

cxovrobdiT da yvela-

ferma Tqven Tvalwin gaiara.

ras etyviT im adamianebs, romlebic

saqarTvelos adana-

Sauleben omis dawyebaSi?

_ am adamianebs vetyodi, rom

omi 2008 wlis agvistomde bevrad

adre daiwyo. me cxinvalSi

davibade da bavSvoba am region-

Si gavatare, skolac iq davmTavre.

31 weliwadi mSoblebTan

erTad sofel kexvSi vcxovrobdi.

iqauroba 2008 wels davtoveT.

cxinvalis regionSi omi

1991 wels daiwyo da saomari

moqmedebebi TiTqmis yoveldRe

mimdinareobda. rusebma maSin

SeZles qalaq cxinvalis okupacia.

amis Semdeg moskovma cxinvalis

mimdebare qarTul sof-

lebzec gadawyvita kontrolis

damyareba. 9 qarTuli sofeli

centralur magistralTan mdebareobda,

saidanac cxinvali

rokis gvirabs ukavSirdeboda.

Cven rusebsac da osebsac yel-

Si vyavdiT gaCxerili. qarTuli

soflebis winaaRmdeg xSirad

axorcielebdnen provokaciebs.

_ ra provokaciebi xor-

cieldeboda?

_ cecxls xsnidnen qarTuli

soflebis mimarTulebiT,

qarTvelebs itacebdnen. maxsovs,

skolaSi xSirad Sewyvetila

saswavlo procesi da droebiT

dagvitovebia Cveni sacxovrebeli.

qalebi da bavSvebi

saqarTvelos danarCen teritoriaze

gavyavdiT. roca situacia

odnav Cawynardeboda, ukan

vbrundebodiT. wlebis man-

Zilze saomar mdgomareobaSi

gviwevda cxovreba. amiT Zalian

daRlili iyo cxinvalis regionis

qarTuli mosaxleoba. jer

kidev Cems bavSvobaSi xSirad

uTqvamT iqaurebs, netav, daiwyos

omi da erTxel da samudamod

gadawydes es sakiTxio.

Cvens soflebSi rom moxvedriliyaviT,

cxinvali unda

gamogevloT. cxinvalSi qarTvelebs

aCerebdnen da Seuracxyofas

ayenebdnen, maT Soris

qalebsa da bavSvebs. Zalian

cudi viTareba iyo cxinvalis

regionis qarTul soflebSi.

SevardnaZis xelisufleba ver

bedavda, rom rame gadamWreli

zomebi mieRo rusebisa da separatistebis

winaaRmdeg. arc

policia Zlierdeboda. qarTuli

sajariso formirebebis

Semoyvanaze xom laparakic zedmeti

iyo. Zalian mZime wlebi

gamoviareT qarTulma mosaxleobam.

SevardnaZis xelisuflebis

wasvlis Semdeg cxinvalis regionis

mimarT politika Seicvala.

e. w. samxreT oseTis im

teritoriaze, romelic Cveni

kontrolis qveS iyo, aRm-

Seneblobis procesi daviwyeT.

gvindoda, rom es regioni

ekonomikurad Zlieri yofiliyo.

osebisTvis unda dagvenaxvebina,

rogor cxovrobdnen

saqarTvelos kontrolirebad

teritoriaze adamianebi da

rogor acxovrebda maT ruseTi.

regionSi araerTi mniSvnelovani

infrastruqturuli

proeqti ganvaxorcieleT. am

yvelafers, ra Tqma unda, ruse-

Ti akvirdeboda. mis intereseb-

Si ar Sedioda, rom osebs saku-

badri basiSvili:

ìmis yvirili,

rom agvistos omi

Cven daviwyeT,

putinis agresiis

gamarTlebaa~

Tari TvaliT enaxaT, Tu ra

xdeboda regionis im nawilze,

sadac Tbilisis iurisdiqcia

vrceldeboda.

Cvens mxares yvelaferi kargad

iyo, samagierod, cxinvali

gaxldaT Cabnelebuli. araferi

xdeboda, iq mcxovreblebs aranairi

perspeqtiva ar gaaCndaT.

imave periodSi Seiqmna samxreT

oseTis droebiTi administraciuli

erTeuli, romelsac

dimitri sanakoevi Caudga saTaveSi.

droebiT administracias

cxinvalidan bevri exmianeboda.

maTTvis Zalian mimzidvelebi

vxdebodiT. im periodSi cxinvalSi,

ZiriTadad, pensionerebi

iyvnen darCenili. visac normaluri

cxovreba da biznesis

awyoba undoda, didi nawili

ruseTSi wavida. visac qarTvelebTan

naTesauri kavSiri hqonda,

saqarTvelos kontrolirebad

teritoriaze gadmovida.

bevri evropaSi gaemgzavra. cxinvalSi

bandformirebebi da

rusi samxedroebi TareSobdnen.

iq ramis miRweva SeuZlebeli

iyo.

_ maSin bevrma datova cxin-

vali, magram saqarTvelosTan

kavSiris gawyveta ar surdaT.

TiTqos ucnauria, magram

vladikavkazis qarTul skola-

Si qarTvelebze bevri cxinval-

idan wasuli eTnikuri osi

swavlobda. es bavSvebi qarTul

ganaTlebas Rebulobdnen.

_ ase iyo. ramdenjerme var

vladikavkazSi namyofi. zogjer

Tavi TbilisSi megona. garSemo

sul qarTulad saubrobdnen.

vladikavkazel osebs, cxinvalelebisgan

gansxvavebiT, qar-

TvelebTan Zalian kargi urTierToba

hqondaT.

_ axlac asea.

_ asea, ase. rogorc me vici,

CrdiloeT oseTSi mcxovreb

osebs cxinvalelebisTvis xSirad

usayveduriaT rusuli provokaciis

ayolis gamo. maTi

azriT, qarTvelebTan ar Sei-

Zleboda dapirispireba.

_ cxinvalSi am sakiTxs sul

sxvanairad uyurebdnen da

uyureben.

_ samwuxarod, cxinvalelebi

ayvnen rusul provokacias da

dRes regionis qarTuli soflebi

sul gadamwvaria. liaxvis

xeobaSi saxlebi xom gadawves da

wlobiT naSenebi xexilis baRe-

`CrdiloeT oseTSi mcxovreb osebs

cxinvalelebisTvis xSirad usayveduriaT

rusuli provokaciis ayolis gamo. maTi azriT,

qarTvelebTan ar SeiZleboda dapirispireba~

bic ki amoZirkves.

_ xexilis baRebs raRas er-

Codnen?

_ hgoniaT, amiT istorias

waSlian da daamtkiceben, rom iq

qarTvelebs arasdros ucxovriaT.

rac ar unda amoZirkvon

da gadawvan, istorias ver

waSlian. es qarTuli miwaa da is

aucileblad dabrundeba saqar-

Tvelos iurisdiqciaSi. CemTvis

Zalian rTulia am ambebis gaxseneba.

gansakuTrebiT miWirs

xolme agvisto. roca 2008 wlis

agvistos omi daiwyo, saqarTvelos

parlamentis wevri viyavi.

sakuTar Tavze ar miyvars saubari,

magram is sajaro moxele

gaxldiT, romelic erT-erTi

bolo gamovida okupirebuli

cxinvalis regionidan.

_ maxsovs es ambavi. dakar-

guli iyaviT da ramdenjerme

isic ki iTqva, rom daiRupeT.

_ iseTi viTareba Seiqmna, rom

veravisTan gavdiodiT kontaqtze,

raTa xma migvewvdina.

sul SemTxveviT gamovediT okupirebuli

teritoriidan.

roca iqaurobas vtovebdiT,

qarTul soflebSi ukve CeCnebis

danayofi idga. isini gadasulebi

iyvnen Zarcvaze. marodiorobaSi

garTulebs CvenTvis

yuradReba aRar mouqceviaT.

rom SevemCnieT, aucileblad

tyved amiyvandnen. mama-

Cemma ar moindoma saxlis datoveba

da kexvSi darCa.

_ romelic rusebma Zalian

male tyved aiyvanes.

_ ase iyo. ramdenime dReSi

daatyveves mama. CemTvis amis

gaxseneba Zalian rTulia. mZimed

gadavitane es ambavi.

_ osurma mxarem Semog-

TavazaT, rom is cnobil „boevik”

marek dudaevSi gagecv-

alaT. ratom TqviT uari am

winadadebaze?

_ mama ramdenime qarTvelTan

erTad daatyveves. osebma Zalian

swrafad gaiges, rom me

parlamentis wevri viyavi. osma

maRalCinosnebma gadawyvites,

amiT esargeblaT da mamas

ganTavisuflebis sanacvlod

dudaevis gamoSveba SemogvT-

18

18 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


2008 wels ar dawyebula~

avazes. marek dudaevi qarTvelma

samarTaldamcvelebma agvistos

omamde karga xniT adre

daakaves okupirebul teritoriaze.

mere aqeT gadmoiyvanes

da qarTul cixeSi Casves. am

adamians ramdenime qarTvelis

mkvlelobaSi edeboda brali da

aseve ramdenime muxliT gaasamarTles.

mimaCnda, rom igi ar

unda gaeTavisuflebinaT.

maTma maRalCinosanma boris

CoCievma werili gadmomca,

TiTqosda mamas mier dawerili.

werilSi is Svelas mTxovda. Tu

male ar gaviyvandiT, moklavdnen

da mis gvamsac ki ver vnaxavdiT.

maSinve mivxvdi da mere

Tavad mamamac damidastura,

rom werili mas ar dauweria.

moviTaTbireT da vTqviT, rom

marek dudaevs ar gavcvlidiT.

saomari moqmedebebis dros

Cvenebma ramdenime osi separatisti

aiyvanes tyved. tyveebi

hyavda osur mxaresac. Sedga

molaparakebebi da principiT

yvela _ yvelaze gavcvaleT.

_ mamac maSin gaaTavisu-

fles?

_ ki. mas 27 dRe gaatarebines

cxinvalis cixeSi.

_ ramdenadac vici, mas Tavi-

si saflavic ki gaaTxrevines

osebma.

_ mamas ormos aTxrevinebdnen

da mere mis fexebTan isrodnen.

undodaT, SeSineboda da efiqra,

rom sakuTar saflavs Txrida.

Semdeg am amoTxril ormoSi

micvalebulebs amarxinebdnen.

mama ganTavisuflebidan ramdenime

TveSi daiRupa sisxlis gaTe-

TrebiT. amdenma SiSma da stresma

mainc Tavisi qna.

_ ra mZime ambavia.

_ Zalian mZimea. siamayiT minda

giTxraT, rom qarTvelebis

mkvleli dudaevi aravisSi

gagvicvlia, maT Soris, tyved

ayvanil qarTvel samxedroeb-

Sic ki. samwuxarod, 2013 wels

„qarTulma ocnebam” misi Tavi

osebs aCuqa. dudaevis gan-

Tavisufleba rusma maRalCinosnebma

moiTxoves.

_ „ocnebis” mier Sewyalebuli

marek dudaevi imdenad na-

Zirala iyo, rom ganTavisuflebis

Semdeg Tavisive Tana-

soflelma osma mokla.

_ Zalian bevri codva edo

kiserze. osebsac bevri dauSava

da _ qarTvelebsac. osebma ki

gadauxades samagiero, magram

samwuxaroa, rom Cvenma xelisuflebam

is ruseTis miTiTebiT

gaaTvisufla. kidev erTxel vityvi,

rom CemTvis am yvelafris

gaxseneba Zalian Znelia. uaRresad

gviWirs devnil qarTul

mosaxleobas. marTalia, devnilTa

Casaxlebebi gakeTda, magram

integracia mainc Wirs.

Cvens saxlebSi gvinda dabruneba.

imedi gvaqvs, Zalian male

SevZlebT Cvens miwawyalze cxovrebas.

_ amis imedi yvelas gvaqvs,

magram es dRes warmoudgenlad

`ramdenjerme var vladikavkazSi namyofi. zogjer Tavi TbilisSi megona.

garSemo sul qarTulad saubrobdnen. vladikavkazel osebs, cxinvalelebisgan

gansxvavebiT, qarTvelebTan Zalian kargi urTierToba hqondaT~

meCveneba.

_ dRes ara, magram xval

davbrundebiT. am imediT vcxovrobT

yvelani. marTalia, iq

Cveni saxlebi aRar dgas, magram

mTavaria, davbrundeT Cvens miwaze

da saxlebsac avaSenebT,

xexilis baRebsac gavaSenebT.

_ miTxariT, rom osebma

qarTul soflebSi saxlebi

gadawves da xexilis baRebic ki

amoZirkves. ra aris axla qar-

Tuli nasoflarebis adgilze?

sofeli TamaraSeni miwasTan

gaaswores da Semdeg iq moskovis

meriam rusi samxedroebisTvis

dasaxleba aaSena, rom-

elsac cxinvalis xelisufle-

bam moskovskoe daarqva.

_ raRac teritoriaze dasaxleba

gaakeTes, sadac rusi

samxedroebis ojaxebi Camoiyvanes

da axla isini cxovroben

iq. danarCeni teritoria ki,

ubralod, miwasTan gaaswores.

isea yvelaferi gadasworebuli,

ucxo adamiani rom Cavides, ver

warmoidgens, iq odesme soflebi

Tu iyo da cxovreba duRda.

trial mindvrad gadaaqcies

iqauroba.

_ da amiT ra xeirs naxu-

loben?

_ mizani erTia _ qarTuli

miwidan qarTuli kvali unda

waSalon. erTaderTi, rasac ver

Seexen, es qarTuli eklesiebia.

verc qarTvelTa saflavebis

aoxreba gabedes.

_ es rogor moxda?

_ ver gabedes. am eklesiebsa

da salocavebSi qarTuli warwerebia.

amiT mainc damtkicdeba,

rom iq qarTvelebi cxovroben.

_ am qarTul warwerebs ver

waSlian?

_ ara mgonia, rom es gabedon.

waSla rom gaebedaT, aqamde

waSlidnen. rogorc ukve giTxariT,

isini arc Cveni winaprebis

saflavebs Sexebian. yovel

aRdgomas imaze vfiqrobT, rom

iqneb, wels mainc SevZloT maTi

manaxuleba.

_ rogor mouvidaT, rom

`raRac teritoriaze dasaxleba gaakeTes, sadac

rusi samxedroebis ojaxebi Camoiyvanes da axla

isini cxovroben iq. danarCeni teritoria ki,

ubralod, miwasTan gaaswores. isea yvelaferi

gadasworebuli, ucxo adamiani rom Cavides,

ver warmoidgens, iq odesme soflebi Tu iyo

da cxovreba duRda. trial mindvrad

gadaaqcies iqauroba~

saflavebs xeli ar axles?

_ erTi periodi saflavis

qvebis qurdoba daiwyes, liTonsac

iparavdnen.

_ aseTi faqtebi saqarTvelos

kontrolirebad terito-

riazec xdeboda da dResac

xdeba.

_ roca saflavebis gaZarcva

daiwyo, rogorc vici, osebma iq

milicia daayenes da es procesi

aRkveTes. maT mimarT Cemi

uaryofiTi damokidebulebis

miuxedavad, simarTle aucileblad

unda iTqvas. Zalian

lamazi buneba gvqonda, tyeebiT

iyo iqauroba dafaruli. axla

es tyeebi masobrivad iCexeba.

xe-tye, ZiriTadad, ruseTSi midis.

cxinvali dRes Cveulebriv

rusul qalaqad iqca. liaxvis

xeobis qarTuli soflebi, sadac

qarTvelebi cxovrobdnen,

poligonad gadakeTda. iq xSirad

mimdinareobs rusuli armiis

wvrTnebi. Zalian mZime da

rTuli situciaa.

_ zemoT Tqveni bavSvoba

gaixseneT, roca srolebis

gamo saswavlo procesi wyde-

boda da qalebi da bavSvebi

ixiznebodiT. albaT, araerTxel

daubombavT mZinare qarTuli

soflebi, magram im politikosebs

amaze sityva ar das-

cdeniaT, romlebic mZinare

cxinvalis dabombvaze mosTqva-

men. es ra fenomenia?

_ 2008 wlis agvistomde

gamudmebiT, dRisiTac da Rami-

Tac, ibombeboda qarTuli soflebi,

qarTuli dasaxlebebi. am

dabombvas mosdevda msxverpli,

itacebdnen da klavdnen qarTvelebs.

Cveni axalgazrdebis

cxedrebsac ki ver vpoulobdiT.

mowinaaRmdege arc teroristul

aqtebze ambobda uars.

SemovliT gzaze xSirad iyo

afeTqebebi. aseTi ambebi saakaSvilis

xelisuflebaSi mosvlis

Semdeg ar dawyebula. eduard

SevardnaZis droidan ase iyo.

amis Sesaxeb yvelaze kargad

„qarTuli ocnebis” warmomadgenlebi

unda iyvnen informirebulni.

_ isini ratom unda iyvnen

amis Sesaxeb yvelaze ukeT in-

formirebulni?

_ imitom, rom bevri maTgani

SevardnaZis xelisuflebas warmoadgenda.

_ mZinare cxinvalze moti-

rali ramdenime persona 1991-

92 wlebis cxinvalis konfliq-

tis monawilea da gaugebaria,

axla ratom mosTqvams cxinvalSi

qarTuli sajariso Se-

naerTebis Sesvlis gamo?

_ guli mtkiva, roca Cvenken

iSveren xels da gaiZaxian, rom

„nacionalebis” dros daibomba

cxinvali, manamde ki araferi

xdeboda, mSvidad cxovrobda

regioni. iqaurma qarTvelebma

yvelaze ukeT viciT es. jojoxeTi

gamoviareT. msgavsi politikuri

gancxadebebi ar aris

lamazi. dakarguli teritoriebi

iseTi Temaa, romlis garSemoc

yvela unda gaverTiandeT.

ar SeiZleba wina xelisuflebis

dadanaSauleba, rom omi man

daiwyo. es iq mcxovrebi qarTvelebis

Seuracxyofaa, aseve im

biWebis, romlebic Cveni teritoriebis

dasacavad ibrZodnen.

_ nebismieri xelisufleba

valdebulia daicvas sakuTari

xalxi da teritoria da mosax-

leoba. marTla gaugonaria,

ratom kamaToben amaze dRemde.

_ ra Tqma unda. SevardnaZis

drosac araerTxel gauciaT

separatistebisTvis da okupantebisTvis

sakadrisi pasuxi.

Cvenc viyaviT 9 weli xelisuflebaSi,

magram erTxel ar

gviTqvams, Tu ratom Caatares

specoperacia maSin. es iyo Cveni

saxelmwifos legitimuri

ufleba. Cven rusebisa da osebis

agresiaze pasuxi rom ar

gagveca, darwmunebuli var, sxva

brals wamogviyenebdnen.

_ ra brals wamogiyenebdnen?

_ maSindeli opozicia ityoda,

rom Cven arafris maqnisi

viyaviT da ar davicaviT regionis

qarTuli mosaxleoba.

_ dabolos, ras etyodioT

im adamianebs, romlebic mainc

ar Cerdebian da mosTqvamen,

rom is omi Cven daviwyeT?

_ bevri ver igebs, rom omi

Cven ar dagviwyia da mxolod

Cvens mosaxleobas vicavdiT.

maT movuwodeb, am Temaze saubrisas

gaixsenon is 188 mSvidobiani

moqalaqe, romelic im

periodSi daiRupa. 184 jariskaci

da policielic gaixsenon,

romlebic agvistos oms Seewirnen.

Tundac es msxverplia

sakmarisi imis gasacnobiereblad,

rom omi saqarTvelos ar

dauwyia. 2008 wels viRaca Sei-

Zleba amas aprotestebda, radganac

omis gamo yvela SokSi

iyo, magram 12 weli gavida da

raRac xom unda gaiazron?

droa, yvelani erTad davdgeT

da rusuli okupacia gavaprotestoT.

imis yvirili, rom omi

Cven daviwyeT, putinis agresiis

gamarTlebaa.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

19

599 92 16 22

gasul kviras opoziciam „str-

ategia aRmaSeneblis” lider giorgi vaSaZeze miitana ieriSi. ofi-

cialurad gaJRerebulma misma sapremiero ambiciebma saqarTvelos

mesame prezidentic ki gamoiyvana wyobilebidan. mixeil saakaS-

vili miiCnevs, rom giorgi vaSaZe bnel mxares gadavida. vaSaZe, Tavis

mxriv, fiqrobs, rom naTel mxares dgas, magram saqarTvelos mes-

ame prezidentisTvis pasuxis gacemas ar apirebs. ambobs rom arc

sxva opozicionerebs upasuxebs, romlebic mas lanZRaven.

ratom aris darwmunebuli

gamarjvebaSi? ratom ar surs

opoziciisTvis pasuxis gacema?

aris Tu ara vaSaZe ivaniSvilis

proeqti? ratom uwodeben mas

„ocnebis” momxreebi „naciona-

luri moZraobis” troas cxens?

ra usiamovno siurprizs

hpirdeba axalgazrda politi-

kosi xelisuflebas? _ amis

Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s giorgi

vaSaZe esaubreba:

_ Tqvenma gancxadebam, rom

apirebT iyoT premierobis kan-

didati, didi vnebaTaRelva

gamoiwvia, rogorc xelisu-

flebis momxreebSi, aseve _

opoziciaSi. uamravi braldeba

da pretenzia gaCnda Tqveni

misamarTiT. erTi, bavSvebis

Wama ar daubralebiaT. saakaS-

vilma Tqva, vaSaZe bnel mxares

gadavidao. riT xsniT pozicia-

opoziciis aseT aRelvebas?

_ is gancxadebebi, rac Cems

gegmebTan dakavSirebiT gakeTda,

naklebad mainteresebs. arc

maT Sefasebebs gavakeTeb. vfiqrob,

xalxi Zalian kargad xedavs,

vin naTel mxaresaa da vin

bnelisken gadaixara. Tavis bolo

gamosvlaSi mixeil saakaSvilma

srulad Secvala Tavisi

mesijebi. is mixvda, rom rac

ramdenime dRiT adre Tqva,

araswori iyo. am yvelaferTan

dakavSirebiT Cemi pozicia ase-

Tia: ar vapireb aravisTvis talaxis

srolas.

_ ratom ar gindaT maTTvis

pasuxis gacema?

_ ra saWiroa, rom talaxis

srolaze vupasuxo? es procesebi

saqarTvelos ar waadgeba.

rac Seexeba Cems gegmebs _ diax,

me vapireb gavxde qveynis premier-ministri.

viRacas SeiZleba

amis sjera, viRacisTvis es

warmoudgenelia, magram me

mainc gavxdebi premieri. premieri

gavxdebi imitom, rom

maqvs konkretuli mizani.

_ ra mizani gaqvT?

_ siRaribis damarcxeba! mimaCnia,

rom Cvens qveyanaSi arc

erT adamians aRar unda Siodes.

amis garda saqarTvelom unda

daibrunos regionis lideri

qveynis pozicia. biZina ivaniSvilis

xelisuflebam siamaye

waarTva am qveynis moqalaqeebs.

lideri qveynis poziciasTan

erTad warTmeuli siamayec

unda davibrunoT.

_ siamayis warTmevaSi ras

gulisxmobT?

_ sadac ar unda gaxvideT da

visac ar unda hkiTxoT, aravin

getyviT imas, rom saqarTvelos

moqalaqeobiT amayobs. iseTi

situacia unda SevqmnaT saqarTveloSi,

iseTi procesebi unda

wavides, rom yvela, vinc aq cxovrobs,

amayobdes saqarTvelos

moqalaqeobiT. Cven aucileblad

davubrunebT xalxs am

siamayis grZnobas.

_ raRac „qarTuli ocnebis”

20

Sorena marsagiSvili


warmomadgeneliviT gamogividaT,

2012 wels roca xelisu-

flebaSi modiodnen, biZina

ivaniSvili da misi „qarTuli

ocneba” erTxmad gaiZaxoda, _

xalxs Rirseba unda davu-

brunoTo. axlac fiqroben,

rom Rirseba dagvibrunes.

_ Rirsebis dabruneba da siamayis

dabruneba sruliad sxvadasxva

rameebia. Cveni mizania,

iseTi qveyana avaSenoT, rom yvela

amayobdes saqarTvelos moqalaqeobiT.

biZina ivaniSvilma

da misma „damsxvreuli ocnebebis

partiam” ki ra gaakeTes? _

im doneze daTeses qveyanaSi

nihilizmi, rom adamianebs sam-

Soblosa da qveynis gancda daukarges.

Cvens moqalaqeebs ukve

arafris sjeraT, arc imis, rom

am qveyanas momavali aqvs. ukve

veRar warmoudgeniaT, rom odesme

gadailaxeba is problemebi

da gaWirveba, rac dRes maTi

da qveynis winaSe dgas. dRes

saqarTveloSi ukiduresad mZime

viTarebaa, romelic aucileblad

unda Seicvalos. ase

gagrZeleba aRar SeiZleba.

xalxSi aseTi seriozuli nihilizmi

bolo orma arCevnebma

daTesa. Zalian bevri dapireba

misces amomrCevels „damsxvreulma

ocnebam” da biZina

ivaniSvilma, magram arc erTi

maTgani ar Sesrulda. koronapandemiis

drosac ki yvelafers

saTavisod akeTebdnen da fuls

Soulobdnen. amas maSin akeTebdnen,

roca saxlSi gamoketili

xalxi lukma-puris gareSe

iyo darCenili. araerTma arasamTavrobo

organizaciam gamoaqveyna

daskvna, rom ivaniSvilis

xelisufleba fulebs TavianT

Semomwirvelebs aZlevda. amis

damamtkicebeli uamravi magaliTi

arsebobs: erT-erT Semomwirvels,

romelmac xelisuflebas

raRac Tanxa Seswira,

meore dResve gacilebiT meti

Tanxa Caericxa. es aris saocreba,

rac upasuxod ar unda davtovoT.

„damsxvreuli ocnebis

partia” dRes aseTi principiT

cxovrobs _ kapikebi xalxs, milionebi

maT kompaniebs da axloblebs.

es ganukiTxaoba da

usamarTloba erTxel da samudamod

unda davamTavroT.

_ isev Tqvens sapremiero

ambiciebs davubrundebi. ra-

tom gamwarda opozicia ase

Zalian? konkurents xedaven

TqvenSi, Tu rame SeTanxmeba

iyo, rom premierad ar unda

dagesaxelebinaT Tavi?

_ me ar mesmis, ratom ewyinaT

es ambavi? amaSi gasabrazebeli

da sanerviulo araferia.

darwmunebuli var, rom yvela

is prodasavluri Zala, romelic

axla opoziciur erTobaSia,

Seqmnis koalicias da koaliciuri

mTavroba Camoyalibdeba.

_ koaliciuri mTavroba Sei-

Zleba Camoyalibdes, magram

`me aucileblad

rCevels, ra aris maTTvis mniS-

giorgi vaSaZe:

`xelisufleba

saerTaSoriso

skandalSi gaexveva~

premieris postze Tqvens kan-

didaturas koalicia mxars

dauWers?

_ aba, ras izams, Tumca manamde

xalxma unda damiWiros mxari.

roca xalxisgan meqneba mxardaWera,

maSin opoziciuri koaliciac

daTanxmdeba premierad

Cems arCevas. raRac gancxadebebs

yuradRebas ar vaqcev,

radgan mimaCnia, rom yvelas Tavisi

strategia aqvs. aseTi gancxadebebi,

etyoba, maTi strategiis

nawilia. kargia, rom msgavsi

gancxadebebi arc xalxs ainteresebs.

maTTvis sxva ramis

garkvevaa ufro mniSvnelovani.

_ risi garkveva surs amom-

`siRaribis damarcxeba! mimaCnia, rom Cvens

qveyanaSi arc erT adamians aRar unda Siodes.

amis garda saqarTvelom unda daibrunos

regionis lideri qveynis pozicia. biZina

ivaniSvilis xelisuflebam siamaye waarTva am

qveynis moqalaqeebs. lideri qveynis poziciasTan

erTad warTmeuli siamayec unda davibrunoT~

rCevels, ra aris maTTvis mniS-

vnelovani?

_ xalxs axla ainteresebs, Tu

romel partias ra gegma aqvs.

amomrCevlisTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania

imis gageba, Tu vin

rogor apirebs arsebuli krizisidan

qveynis gamoyvanas. am

gaWirvebaSi cxovreba ukve Seu-

Zlebelia. me da Cemi gundi qveynis

krizisidan gamoyvanis gegmaze

vmuSaobT da ar vpasuxobT

oponentebis agresiul gancxadebebs.

„strategia aRmaSeneblisTvis”

arc isaa problema,

Tuki opoziciur erTobaSi kidev

sxvebsac aqvT sapremiero

ambiciebi. mTavrobis meTauris

postis dakavebaze pretenziebi

Tu aqvT, maSin daasaxelon Riad

TavianTi premierobis kandidatebi

da konkretuli gegmac

warmoadginon. Tu strategia da

gegma ar gaqvs, ra unda gaakeTo

qveynis krizisidan gamosayvanad?

aseT SemTxvevaSi, bunebrivia,

rom xalxisgan mxardaWera

ar geqneba. „strategia aRamaSeneblis”

Sinaarsic xom esaa.

me mxolod ki ar davsaxelebulvar

kandidatad, aramed konkretuli

gegma maqvs SemuSavebuli,

sadac gawerilia, Tu ras gavakeTeb

xelisuflebis Secvlis

Semdeg qveyanaSi arsebuli vi-

Tarebis Sesacvlelad.

_ ra gegma gaqvT?

_ Cven gawerili gvaqvs, Tu

rogor SeiZleba SevqmnaT

300.000 samuSao adgili. viciT,

sabanko sesxebze procenti rogor

gavanaxevroT. momavali

wlis pirveli ianvridanvea SesaZlebeli

pensionerebisTvis

sesxebze procentebis Camowera.

mcire da saSualo biznesi, romelsac

milionamde brunva aqvs,

dRg-sgan unda gavaTavisufloT.

samarTliani sasamarTlos

Seqmnas vapirebT. mokled, detalurad

gvaqvs gawerili, Tu ris

gakeTebas vgegmavT, raTa es qveyana

im krizisidan gamoviyvanoT,

sadac „damsxvreuli ocnebebis

partiis” damsaxurebiT

vimyofebiT. merwmuneT, Cvens

gegmebze axla Zalian mokrZalebulad

vsaubrob, Torem gacilebiT

mets gavakeTebT. Cemi da

Cemi gundis xasiaTi aseTia.

_ garda imisa, rom sapremie-

ro ambiciebis gamo SegaCvenes,

ivaniSvilTanac

gagaigives.

Tqvenma konkuretma isnis ma-

Joritarul olqSi, daviT Wi-

WinaZem, ganacxada, „qarTulma

ocnebam” ori kandidati gam-

oiyvana Cem winaaRmdeg, erTi

kaxa kaxiSvilia da meore giorgi

vaSaZeo. amaze ras upasux-

ebdiT Tqvens konkurents?

_ aseTi klounada amomrCevelSi

Zalian negatiur ganwyobas

iwvevs, amitom ra pasuxi unda

gavce mas? saerTod ar maqvs

warmodgena, vin aris es WiWinaZe.

ar vici, ra warsuli aqvs

da saidan movida politikaSi.

kako boboxiZem kargad icis, Tu

20 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


gavxdebi premieri~

`damsxvreuli ocnebis partia~ dRes aseTi principiT cxovrobs - kapikebi

xalxs, milionebi maT kompaniebs da axloblebs. es ganukiTxaoba da

usamarTloba erTxel da samudamod unda davamTavroT~

vin vin aris qarTul politika-

Si. mas davureke da vkiTxe, _

vinaa es WiWinaZe-meTqi. warmogidgeniaT?!

_ kakomac ki ar

icoda, saidan gamotyvra es adamiani

qarTul politikaSi. mar-

Tla ar mainteresebs, ras ityvis

Cemze igi. CemTvis amomrCevlis

mxardaWeraa mTavari da ara

_ konkurentis keTilganwyobis

mopoveba. xalxis mxardaWera

romel kandidats aqvs isanSi, es

mgonia, rom Zalian kargad Cans

da amas yvela amCnevs.

_ mosaxleobis nawili mar-

Tla giWerT mxars, magram naw-

ilze Zalian imoqmeda, rom

sapremiero ambiciebi gagiCn-

daT. opoziciam seriozuli

Savi piari aagora Tqven winaa-

Rmdeg. bolo dReebSi es yvelaferi

Cacxra da vaSaZis pre-

mieroba sxva Temebma gadafara.

_ SeuZlebeli iyo, es vneba-

TaRelva didi xani gagrZelebuliyo.

Tavad es xmauric araa

gansakuTrebuli movlena. konkurencia,

eWvianoba politikaSi

Cveulebrivi ambavia. momaval-

Sic aTas rames ityvian Cemze.

daviT WiWinaZem xom „qarTuli

ocnebis” proeqti miwoda, magram

„damsxvreul ocnebaSi”

miaCniaT, rom me „nacionalebis”

troas cxenis funqcias vasruleb.

yvelas Tavisi SeTqmulebis

Teoria aqvs.

_ Tqven ar gaqvT Tqveni

SeTqmulebis Teoria?

_ me var adamiani, romelsac

SeTqmulebis Teoriebi ar ainteresebs.

CemTvis imis garkveva

ufro sainteresoa, Tu ra unda

xalxs. me var adamiani, romelic

pasuxobs xalxis kiTxvebs.

momavalSic ase gavagrZeleb.

lanZRvaSi namdvilad aravis

avyvebi.

_ im opozicionerebs ras

etyodiT, romlebic erTmaneTs

Tavs esxmian. cota xnis win,

roca am Temaze visaubreT, kmayofili

iyaviT, rom aseTi Tav-

dasxmebi Sewyda. es maSin iyo,

òpoziciaSi erTmaneTTan brZola isev midis,

magram es arafer Sedegs ar moitans.

opoziciaSi yvelasTvis naTeli unda iyos

erTi rame - Zala aris erTobaSi da ara

erTmaneTisTvis sibinZurisa da talaxis

srolaSi. tyuilad hgonia vinmes, rom binZuri

da agresiuli ritorika politikosis

reitingze kargad aisaxeba. aseTi ritorika

amomrCevlisTvis misaRebi rom ar aris, es

bolo kvlevebSic gamoCnda~

roca elisaSvilma gailaSqra

opoziciaze, magram droze gaCerda.

axla brZola opozicia-

Si isev ganaxlebulia da es yvelaferi

xalxze karg STabeWd-

ilebas namdvilad ar tovebs.

_ opoziciaSi erTmaneTTan

brZola isev midis, magram es

arafer Sedegs ar moitans. opoziciaSi

yvelasTvis naTeli

unda iyos erTi rame _ Zala aris

erTobaSi da ara erTmaneTisTvis

sibinZurisa da talaxis

srolaSi. tyuilad hgonia vinmes,

rom binZuri da agresiuli

ritorika politikosis reitingze

kargad aisaxeba. aseTi

ritorika amomrCevlisTvis misaRebi

rom ar aris, es bolo

kvlevebSic gamoCnda.

_ ufro konkretulad gviTxariT,

ra gamoCnda bolo kv-

levebidan?

_ axali kvlevebidan naTlad

Cans, rom saerTod ganulebulia

im politikosebis reitingi,

romlebic sibinZurisa da

talaxis nTxeviT arian dakavebulebi.

xalxi Zalian kargad

xvdeba, rom vinc mxolod sibinZures

anTxevs, is arafris gamkeTebeli

ar aris. aseTi xalxi

verc samuSao adgilebs Seqmnis

da verc qveyanas gamoiyvans

ekonomikuri krizisidan. aseT

xalxs arCevnebze mxardaWera ar

eqneba. Cemi principia: boRmasa

da sibinZuris nTxevas unda upasuxo

RimiliT. es unda iyos

yvela Cvenganis strategia.

bolo sami Tvis manZilze

araerTxel aagores Cem winaaRmdeg

binZuri kampania, bevrma

gamlanZRa, bevrjer mesroles

talaxi, magram veravin amiyolia.

verc momavalSi amiyolieben.

_ marTla ver agiyolies, magram

moewoneba xalxs aseTi ga-

wonasworebuli politikosi,

romelic sibinZures RimiliT

pasuxobs? Cven xom ufro agre-

siuli politikosebi gviyvars.

zeviT ki axseneT, bolo kv-

leevebis mixedviT sxvanairad

Canso, magram es ganwyoba bo-

lomde darCeba?

_ agresiuli mec var, magram

ara oponentebisa da opoziciis

mimarT. me siRaribisa da

gaWirvebis mimarT var agresiuli.

usamarTlobas vpasuxob

agresiiT. agresiulad talaxis

srola arc erTi politikosis

amocana ar unda iyos. Cven siRaribesa

da usamarTlobas unda

vebrZoloT. gasul kviras gamovida

premieri giorgi gaxaria

da ganacxada: 17 wlamde bavSvebi

200-larian daxmarebas miiRebeno.

ratom aris daxmareba

aseTi cota? 5 miliardi sad

waiRes? Tavis droze xom

gviTxra imave premierma, rom 5

miliardi mogvces? ratom ar

exmarebian xalxs, romelic

mSieria? xalxisTvis mxolod 80

milionia darigebuli, danarCeni

Tanxa Tavis kompaniebsa da

jibeebSi waiRes. gadmoagdeben

raRac groSebs da Tan miaCniaT,

rom amiT mTeli qveyana kmayofili

unda viyoT. amis atana

ukve SeuZlebelia. naxavT Zalian

male, ra seriozul kampanias

daviwyebT am korufciuli

sqemebis aRmosafxvrelad. xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebma

am gaWirvebis dros mainc unda

aiRon xeli fulis keTebaze.

amaT ki koronapandemiis dros

orjer meti fuli iSoves, vidre

aqamde Soulobdnen. bolomde

CamovxsniT am korufciul

sqemas fardas. es aris saocari

skandali. saerTaSoriso

gamoxmaureba da skandali mohyveba

amas. politikosi, rome-

_ Tqvens gundSi marTla axali

tipis politikosebi da axali

saxeebi arian. am axal-

gazrdebs arc sisxliani cxra

wlisa da arc „ocnebis” perio-

dis codvebi awevT zurgze.

_ am mxriv gundSi Zalian

pozitiuri procesi gvaqvs. ar

gvinda im saqmis dazianeba, rac

daviwyeT. gvinda, rom sufTa

warsulis mqone profesionalebs

mivceT gasaqani! gvinda,

rom politikaSi rac SeiZleba

meti sufTa warsulis adamiani

iyos.

_ isev mixeil saakaSvilis

Temas davubrundebi. im gancx-

adebebis Semdeg, _ vaSaZe bnel

mxares gadavidao, _ xom ar Se-

exmianeT saqarTvelos mesame

prezidents an Tavad xom ar

SegexmianaT igi?

_ arc TviTon Semxmianebia da

arc me Sevxmianebivar vinmes. ra

azri hqonda amis gakeTebas? mis

pasuxad feisbuqze is cnobili

foto davde, romelzec mTeli

saqarTvelo laparakobda.

_ Zalian ucnauri foto da-

deT. aravis egona, rom giorgi

vaSaZe aseT fotos atvirTav-

da.

_ bevrs egona, rom gverdi

gamitexes, arada, es foto me

davde. pasuxis gacema da raRacis

garkveva aucilebeli araa.

saakaSvilma icoda, rom ar vupasuxebdi.

arc momavalSi vapireb

aseT gancxadebebze pasuxebis

gacemas. es Cemi saqme

araa. Cemi amocana qveynis mZime

mdgomareobidan gamoyvanaa.

darwmunebuli var, rom amis

gakeTebas SevZlebvT.

_ gavigeT, rom saakaSvilis

gancxadebas ar upasuxebT, magram

isnis olqSi mis momxreebTan

rogor apirebT urTier-

Tobas? saqarTvelos mesame

prezidenti Tqvenze gabraze-

bulia da misi momxreebic xom

ar gagibrazdebian?

_ „nacionaluri moZraobis”

momxrebi, romlebic isanSi cxovroben,

uklebliv damiWeren

mxars. marto isini ki ara, neitraluri

amomrCevelic me momcems

xmas. „qarTuli ocnebis”

`xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebma am gaWirvebis

dros mainc unda aiRon xeli fulis keTebaze.

amaT ki koronapandemiis dros orjer meti

fuli iSoves, vidre aqamde Soulobdnen.

bolomde CamovxsniT am korufciul sqemas

fardas. es aris saocari skandali.

saerTaSoriso gamoxmaureba da skandali

mohyveba amas~

lic xalxs ar elaparakeba da

mxolod sibinZureebis nTxeviT

aris dakavebuli, verafers gaakeTebs.

oponentebisTvis talaxis

srola erT samuSao adgils

mainc Tu Seqmnis, kidev ara

uSavs da isrolon talaxi. amas

me araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar gavakeTeb.

mirCevnia, im Temebze

vimuSao, rac xalxs awuxebs.

droa, axali tipis politikosebs

mivceT asparezi _ im

tipis politikosebs, romlebic

saqmis keTebaze iqnebian orientirebulebi

da talaxis srolas

ar daiwyeben. „strategia

aRmaSenebli” aseTi tipis politikosebisTvis

Seiqmna.

momxreebic ki Cemi amomrCevlebi

gaxdebian.

_ Tqveni partiis erT-erT-

ma liderma ana kobaxiZem gaa-

vrcela foto da informacia

imis Sesaxeb, rom isnis gamgeobam

ukve daiwyo administr-

aciuli resursis gamoyeneba

saxelisuflebo kandidatis

sasargeblod.

_ es aris Cveulebrivi ambavi.

administraciul resurss

yovelTvis iyenebda xelisufleba.

amjerad es ar uSveliT.

im xalxis naxevarze meti, romelic

am fotoebSia, me momcems

xmas da ager naxavT, rom

ase iqneba.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

21


`dRevandeli reitingebi bevrs arafers niSnavs

gega silagava

saqarTveloSi da mis irgvliv

mimdinare procesebze „qronika+~

istorikossa da Jurnalist daTo

gamcemliZes esaubra:

_ daTo, mogesalmebi. Cveni

dRevandeli interviu, albaT,

yvelaze gansxvavebuli iqneba,

radgan, erTi SexedviT, bevr sx-

vadasxva Temaze mogviwevs sauba-

ri, magram yvela Temas eqneba

erTi saerTo mniSvneli _ saqar-

Tvelo da qarTuli saxelmwifo.

maS, ase: daviwyoT zogadi Sefase-

bebiT _ rogoria saqarTveloSi

arsebuli viTareba, miT ufro,

winasaarCevno periodis gaTval-

iswinebiT?

_ gmadlob. rasac 30 welia

vakvirdebi, rogorc Jurnalisti

da istorikosi, 1990 wlis 28 oqtombris

pirveli mravalpartiuli

arCevnebiT dawyebuli, Cvens

qveyanaSi lamis yvela arCevnebi

„istoriulad”, „gadamwyvetad” da

„sabediswerod” iTvleboda.

zogjer komizmis elementebic ki

gasdevda amgvar midgomas, roca

rutinul adgilobriv arCevnebsac

ki aseTive mniSvnelobas ani-

Webda xelisufleba Tu politikuri

elita. magaliTad, Semi-

Zlia gavixseno 1998 wlis an 2002

wlis municipaluri arCevnebi,

romelTa Sedegi mniSvnelovani

iyo, Tumca mainc ara ganmsazRvreli

da „sabediswero”. Tumca, sinamdvileSi,

am periodis manZilze

Catarebuli bevri saarCevno kampania,

garegani, boboqari vnebebis

miuxedavad, arc arafers wyvetda

da verc gadawyvetda. vTqvaT, 1995

wlis saprezidento da saparlamento

arCevnebi, romelTa bedi

winaswar gadawyvetili iyo, aseve

2000 wlis saprezidento arCevnebi

da a. S. sul sxva viTarebaa wlevandeli

saparlamento arCevnebis

win, romlis gansakuTrebulobas

erTdroulad ramdenime faqtori

ganapirobebs.

_ iqneb, daakonkreto.

_ pirvel rigSi, Cven ukve saparlamento

respublika varT da

swored parlamenti da ara prezidenti

wyvets xelisuflebisa da

Zalauflebis sakiTxs. Sesabamisad,

Tu dapirispirebul mxareTa

resursebs, maT Soris, finansebsa

da mediaresursebs gaviTvaliswinebT,

es iqneba samkvdro-sasicocxlo

brZola. amJamindeli reitingebi

bevrs arafers niSnavs da

maT gansakuTrebul yuradRebasac

nu mivaqcevT. meore: saerTa-

Soriso konteqsti. gansakuTrebiT

Cveni qveynis strategiuli partnioris,

amerikis SeerTebuli

Statebis damokidebuleba. 2003

wels amerikam, Tundac postfaqtum,

Tumca mainc „mwvane Suqi”

aunTo „vardebis revolucias”.

oRond manamde imis msgavsic ki

araferi ismoda vaSingtonidan

eduard SevardnaZis mimarT, rac

axla ismis kapitoliumis borcvidan

_ kongresidan mmarTveli

partiisa da misi lideris Sesaxeb.

pirvelad gaiJRera gancxadebebma

finansuri daxmarebis _ Tundac

teqnikuri daxmarebis _ nawilobriv

gayinvis Sesaxeb, rac SeiZleba

Sefasdes, rogorc sanqcirebis

momzadeba. regionul faqtors

ueWvelad emateba „anakliis port-

Tan” dakavSirebuli problemebi,

somxeT-azerbaijan-ruseT-Turqe-

Tis mosalodneli samxedro konfliqti;

aseve orive regionul

zesaxelmwifoSi _ TurqeTsa da

ruseTSi, aseve maT uSualo samezobloSi

mimdinare saxifaTo

procesebi da sxv. da mesame, yvelaze

mniSvnelovani: istoriaSi

kanonzomiereba mudam sistemuria,

anu Seuvali socialuri da politikuri

mizezebiT ganpirobebuli:

saqarTveloSi arc erTi xelisufleba

mesame vadiT ar dakanonebula,

_ verc erT xelisuflebas

mesame vadiT „Tavi ver Seunar-

Cunebia”.

_ mesame faqtoris irgvliv

bevri oponenti geyoleba.

_ mesmis, magram vimeoreb: es

iseTi kanonzomierebaa, romlis

„gadaxedvam” SeuZlebelia, mniSvnelovani

politikuri ryevebis

gareSe Caiaros. Tumca „ryeva” am

konteqstSi sulac ar niSnavs ama

Tu im mxaris garantirebul gamarjvebas

an damarcxebas, gardauvali

dapirispirebis procesSi.

erTi sityviT, situacia daZabulia.

politikuri aqtorebi iTvaliswineben,

rom aseve pirvelad

istoriaSi, saarCevno barieri sul

1%-ia. politikurad es imas niSnavs,

rom 31 oqtombris SedegiT

ukmayofilo Zalebi _ didni Tu

mcireni _ ueWvelad meti legitimurobis

resursiT isargebleben,

vidre im SemTxvevaSi, barieri rom

ver gadaelaxaT da quCis opoziciad

darCeniliyvnen.

_ cxadia, politikur partie-

bs winasaarCevno registrs ver

dauwuneb _ lamis erT xmaSi acx-

adeben, rom yvelas daamarcxeben,

magram ra realobas xedav xe-

lisuflebisa da opoziciis

flangebze?

_ elementaruli politikuri

teqnologiaa, rom politikosi da

politikuri Zala, saarCevno

„klinCis” winare periodSi, saku-

Tar SesaZleblobaTa Seuval,

uryev rwmenas unda asxivebdes da

iotisodeni eWvic ki ar unda etyobodes,

rom yvelas erTpirovnulad

daamarcxebs. sxva saqmea, rom

misi ambicia seriozulad unda

aRiqmebodes, anu komikuri elferi

ar unda dahkravdes, roca 2

an 3-procentiani partia ambobs,

„Cemi gamarjveba gadawyvetilia da

mTavrobas me davakompleqtebo”.

jerjerobiT, saarCevno omis beds

ori ZiriTadi subieqti wyvets

daTo gamcemliZe:

`vaSingtons raRac

gansakuTrebiT

aSfoTebs

saqarTvelos

amJamindel saSinao Tu

sagareo politikaSi~

iseve, rogorc yvela wina arCevnebis

dros. mxolod uSualod

kenWisyras ar vgulisxmob, es procesis

„daviwroveba” iqneboda:

mmarTveli partia „qarTuli ocneba”

da mixeil saakaSvilis „nacionaluri

moZraoba”.

_ damoukideblobidan moy-

olebuli qarTul politikas da

arCevnebs mudam ori ZiriTadi

aqtori hyavs.

_ diax, iseve rogorc 1990 wels

zviad gamsaxurdias „mrgvali magida”

da komunistebi; 1999 wels

eduard SevardnaZis „moqkavSiri”

da aslan abaSiZis „aRorZineba”;

2003 wels mixeil saakaSvili da patarkaciSvil-vaJa

lorTqifaniZis

„moqalaqeTa kavSiri”... meeWveba, es

dispozicia arCevnebamde Seicvalos,

miT umetes, mixeil saakaSvilis

bolo gancxadebebis fonze,

rodesac „nacionaluri moZraobis”

liderma Riad ganacxada:

swored is aris mTavari alternatiuli

Zala, yvela sxva opoziciuri

partia ki mis farvaterSi

moZraobs, surs es Tu ara.

_ unda vaRiaroT, rom pandemiis

menejments xelisuflebam war-

matebiT gaarTva Tavi. cxadad

vxedavT,

rom Cveni Tanamoqal-

aqeebis umetesoba am dromde ver

aTviTcnobierebs im safrTxes,

romelic gvqonda da rac jerac

arsebobs. Tumca SerCa ki xelisu-

flebas es „forma”, romelic mis

warmatebas uzrunvelyofs arCe-

vnebze?

_ zustad SeniSne, rom am „formas”

SenarCuneba sWirdeba, raki

arsebobs iseTi fenomeni, rogoricaa

„socialuri mexsiereba”. Cemi

STabeWdilebiT, mizezTa gamo, es

mexsiereba, saqarTveloSi gansakuTrebiT

moklea. anu, rasakvirvelia,

sazareli pandemiis dros

mTavrobam mniSvnelovani resursi

daagrova imiT, rom yovelgvari

gadaWarbebis gareSe, saqarTvelo,

axal zelandiasTan erTad, msoflioSi

saukeTesod da samagali-

`mecnierebi da eqimebi, romelTac marTlac

didebuli wvlili Seitanes `gvirgvinas~

mogeriebaSi, ukve vixileT mmarTveli partiis

Sekrebaze da sulac araa gamoricxuli, isini

saarCevno siaSi aRmoCndnen, rac xsenebuli

`politikuri foris~ SenarCunebas, ase Tu ise,

Seuwyobs xels, magram... 31 oqtombramde bevri

ram moxdeba. SesaZloa, sul sxva atmosfero

Camoyalibdes, rac epidemiasTan dakavSirebul

motivaciebs ukana planze gadaswevs~

Tod gaumklavda gamowvevas. Tumca

oqtombris bolomde ekonomikuri

krizisi, socialuri problemebi,

pirvel rigSi umuSevroba da

axali politikuri gamowvevebi,

„formis” dakargvasTan erTad,

„politikur foras” ueWvelad

Seamcireben. Sesabamisad, xelisufleba

iZulebuli gaxdeba, Seinar-

Cunos „antikoviduri” daZabuloba

da didi cdunebac gauCndeba,

es gansakuTrebuli saWiroebis

gareSe gaakeTos, anu karantini

aRadginos, SezRudvebi ganaaxlos

da a. S. garda amisa, mecnierebi da

eqimebi, romelTac marTlac didebuli

wvlili Seitanes „gvirgvinas”

mogeriebaSi, ukve vixileT

mmarTveli partiis Sekrebaze da

sulac araa gamoricxuli, isini

saarCevno siaSi aRmoCndnen, rac

xsenebuli „politikuri foris”

SenarCunebas, ase Tu ise, Seuwyobs

xels, magram... 31 oqtombramde

bevri ram moxdeba. SesaZloa, sul

sxva atmosfero Camoyalibdes,

rac epidemiasTan dakavSirebul

motivaciebs ukana planze gadaswevs.

_ ra unda da ras erCis aSS-is

kongresmen-senatorebis nawili

saqarTvelos

xelisuflebas,

romelTanac mimarTebiT, erTi

mxriv, saqebari sityvebi movismineT

aSS-is saxelmwifos mdivnisgan

da maqsimalurad diplomati-

uri gancxadeba elC danganisgan?

ramdenad safuZvliania es kriti-

ka?

_ am Temaze msjelobisas ar

dagvaviwydes, rom amerikeli kongresmenebi

Tu senatorebi, ganurCevlad

partiulobisa, sagareo-politikur

sakiTxebze aqtivobisas

mudam iTvaliswineben aRmasrulebeli

xelisuflebis pozicias

maSin, rodesac gancxadebebi

exeba amerikis Zireul interesTa

periferiaze mdebare saxelmwifos.

mezobeli meqsikis, inglisis

an israelis SemTxvevaSi SesaZloa,

ase ar iyos, magram saqarTvelosTan

mimarTebiT namdvilad asea.

sxva yvelaferi diplomatia da

politteqnologiaa.

_ ufro gasagebad rom axsna...

_ sxvagvarad Tu vityviT, vaSingtons

raRac gansakuTrebiT aSfoTebs

saqarTvelos amJamindel

saSinao Tu sagareo politikaSi!

amerikul „fronterasTan” dakav-

Sirebuli sakiTxebi mxolod simptomia

da ara Sinagani mizezi. amas

xelisufleba versad wauva,

radgan Zalaufleba gulisxmobs

riskebsa da problemebs aranakleb,

vidre uflebebsa da privilegiebs.

oRond mxolod es sainvesticio

uTanxmoebani namdvilad

ver gansazRvravdnen vaSingtonis

imdenad radikalur damokidebulebas,

ramdenadac, faqtobrivad,

„sanqcirebis” Temas gaeJRera

pirvelad Cvens urTierTobaTa

istoriaSi. yuradRebiT Seviswavle

yvela gancxadeba, dawyebuli

maik pompeos ramdenime Tvis winandeli

komentariT da Cemi STabe-

WdilebiT, sakvanZo mainc saqarTvelos

portebis Temaa, raki amerikelebs

surT, es portebi _ pirvel

rigSi anaklia, aseve foTi _

namdvilad proamerikuli jgufebis

xelSi darCes da maTi Semdgomi

gasxvisebiT an transformaciiT

amerikis geopolitikurma

konkurentebma, iranma da CineTma,

ar isargeblon amerikisa da misi

regionuli mokavSireebisaTvis

22

22 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


da maT did yuradRebasac nu mivaqcevT~

mtruli interesebis gansaxorcieleblad.

_ sakmaod gasagebi pasuxia.

barem wina kiTxvidan gamomdinare

gadavideT opoziciaze, _ rCeba

iseTi STabeWdeleba, rom opozi-

cia apirebs, arCevnebi dasavleTs,

kerZod, aSS-s moagebinos. amis

Tqmis uflebas Tavad partiebi-

sadmi mosaxleobaSi arsebuli

araerTgvarovani damokidebuleba

maZlevs. anu ramdenad emTxveva

opoziciis dasavluri „survilebi”

da realuri SesaZle-

blobebi erTmaneTs?

_ tradicia umniSvnelovanesi

politikuri faqtoria da xSirad

ara ubralod Tvisebrivi, aramed

arsobrivic xdeba. swored arsobrivia

ukve is garemoeba, rom

dasavleTis, pirvel rigSi, amerikis

SeerTebuli Statebis pozicia

gadamwyvetic kia saqarTvelo-

Si xelisuflebis legitimaciisTvis.

politikuri Zalebi mudam

ibrZvian am resursis mosapoveblad

rogorc arCevnebamde, aseve

arCevnebis Semdeg. aqve davazusteb,

rom mxedvelobaSi maqvs ara

eleqtoraluri an iuridiuli,

aramed politikuri legitimacia:

kenWisyris oficialurad gamocxadebul

Sedegs politikuri legitimuroba

aRar eqneba, Tuki

dasavleTi da misi struqturebi,

vTqvaT, „euTos” damkvirvebelTa

misia an kongresis delegacia,

arCevnebamde an arCevnebis Semdeg

ganacxadeben, rom saarCevno procesic

da TviT kenWisyrac wesebis

darRveviT Catrda da/anu gayalbda!

iyo „Tavisufali, Tumca ar

iyo patiosani” da a. S.

dasavluri da amerikuli „legitimurobis”

mopovebas ara mxolod

opozicia cdilobs, aramed

aseTive gafacicebiT cdilobs xelisuflebac,

anu mmarTveli partia.

swored es garemoeba adasturebs:

qarTuli politikuri

elita mTlianad prodasavluria,

ra urTierTbraldebebic ar unda

ismodes. igive garemoeba amtkicebs

imasac, rom saqarTveloSi, sabednierod,

ar arian namdvilad

prorusuli politikuri Zalebi,

raki aravin eZebs moskovur legitimacias.

marginalebi ar iTvleba,

rasakvirvelia. Tumca im marginalebmac

moskovs mniSvnelovani

Sedegi ver aCvenes bolo ar-

CevnebSi da amitomac dakarga kremlma

maTdami interesi. saqarTvelos

arc erTi xelisufleba, dRevandeli

xelisuflebis CaTvliT,

„prorusuli” ar yofila. sxva yvelaferi,

maT Soris, braldebebi,

mxolod politikuri teqnologia

da interpretaciebia.

_ axla opoziciis Sansebi gan-

vixiloT Semdeg konteqstSi:

erTi is, rom politikur sufraze

absoluturad yvela saxis

kerZi devs, anu yvela gemovnebis

amomrCevlisTvis. meorec

is, rom absoluturad mes-

mis enm-is, romelmac ar isurva,

sakuTari xmebi eCuqebina da

gaenawilebina sruli opoziciuri

speqtrisTvis. adrec vambobdi, _

enm-s sulac ar awyobda arc pro-

porciuli da arc es 120/30

sistema. amiT partia, realurad,

xmebs kargavs. mokled, arsebuli

opoziciuri konfiguraciidan ra

molodinebi gaqvs?

_ momavali arCevnebis erTerTi

yvelaze saintereso mxare

sworedac isaa, rom rogorc Tqvi,

„sufraze yvela saxis kerZi devs”.

àmerikam, Tundac postfaqtum, Tumca mainc `mwvane Suqi~ aunTo `vardebis

revolucias~. oRond manamde imis msgavsic ki araferi ismoda vaSingtonidan

eduard SevardnaZis mimarT, rac axla ismis kapitoliumis borcvidan -

kongresidan mmarTveli partiisa da misi lideris Sesaxeb. pirvelad gaiJRera

gancxadebebma finansuri daxmarebis - Tundac teqnikuri daxmarebis - nawilobriv

gayinvis Sesaxeb, rac SeiZleba Sefasdes, rogorc sanqcirebis momzadeba~

erTprocentianma barierma is ker-

Zebic ki „ganaaxla”, romelsac

didi xania „mZime surneli” unda

dastyoboda. TiTqmis yvela cnobil

politikossa da mis partias

aqvs Sansi, moagrovos 15-17 aTasi

xma da gadalaxos barieri, anu

moxvdes parlamentSi. SesaZloa

moxdes isec, momavali sakanonmdeblo

organo yvelaze mravalpartiuli

da kargi gagebiT „Wrelic”

aRmoCndes 1995 wlis Semdeg.

pirvel parlaments, romelic

1992 wels avirCieT, ar vTvli,

radgan maSin sruliad unikaluri

saarCevno sistema moqmedebda da

amomrCeveli erTdroulad sam sxvadasxva

partiasa Tu bloks aZlevda

xmas. bunebrivia, „nacionaluri

moZraoba” cdilobs, yvelaze

didi da madisaRmZvreli „kerZi”,

gansakuTrebiT protestuli da

xelisuflebaze gabrazebuli amomrCevlisaTvis,

Tavad iyos xsenebul

„sufraze”. amisTvis ki yovlad

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

aucilebelia, mkafiod gaemijnos

sxva seriozul politikur Zalebs,

raTa maTSi ar „aiTqvifos”.

mixeil saakaSvilis programa maqsimumi

xelisuflebaSi enm-is dabrunebaa,

xolo minimumi _ yvelaze

mravalricxovani opoziciuri

fraqciis Seqmna momaval parlamentSi.

amasTan, iotisoden eWvs ar

iwvevs, rom rogorc „programa

minimumis”, aseve „programa maqsimumis”

TvalsazrisiT, „nacionalebisTvis”

idealuri iyo Sereuli

saarCevno sistema 73+77. magram

es is SemTxvevaa, rodesac maTac

ki ver gabedes politikur elita-

Si arsebuli konsensusis winaaRmdeg

wasvla, arada, miSa Tavidanve

ambobda, rom „proporciuli arCevnebi

nulovani barieriT” misTvis

miuRebelia, raki metismetad

„Wrel” da/anu, misi azriT, araqmedunarian

xelisuflebas warmoSobs.

_ kriminali _ Tema, romelsac

`yuradRebiT Seviswavle yvela gancxadeba,

dawyebuli maik pompeos ramdenime Tvis

winandeli komentariT da Cemi STabeWdilebiT,

sakvanZo mainc saqarTvelos portebis Temaa,

raki amerikelebs surT, es portebi - pirvel

rigSi anaklia, aseve foTi - namdvilad

proamerikuli jgufebis xelSi darCes da maTi

Semdgomi gasxvisebiT an transformaciiT

amerikis geopolitikurma konkurentebma,

iranma da CineTma, ar isargeblon amerikisa

da misi regionuli mokavSireebisaTvis

mtruli interesebis gansaxorcieleblad~

gverds ver avuvliT. ramdenad

aqvs am Temas da, kerZod, SaqaraSvilis

mkvlelobas (sxva kvali-

fikaciis micemas azri ar aqvs) da

Tamar baCaliaSvilis gaurkvevel

viTarebaSi gardacvalebis rezonansul

saqmeebs politikur procesze

zegavlenis moxdenis un-

ari, SesaZlobeloba?

_ Zalian didi mniSvneloba da

zegavlenis unari aqvT am saqmeebs.

jer erTi imitom, rom kriminogenuli

viTareba adamianebs zafravs,

aSinebs da ganawyobs im xelisuflebis

winaaRmdeg, romelic,

mosaxleobis am nawilis azriT,

mZime problemas ver umklavdeba.

kriminalis SiSma adamianTa didi

nawilisTvis Caanacvla ruseTTan

omis SiSi, romelic ramdenime

wlis winaT ganmsazRvreli iyo.

garda amisa, yvela rezonansul

saqmesTan dakavSirebiT, uSualod

arCevnebis win, movlenebi Sesa-

Zloa, isec ganviTardes, politikuri

mniSvneloba SeiZinos

iseve, rogorc 2012 wlis arCevnebis

win. garantirebuli da gadawyvetili

ar aris, magram arc

gamoricxulia.

_ Sen istorikosi xar da, istoriuli

konteqstidan gamom-

dinare, minda Sexedo sakiTxs:

aris mosalodneli Semodgo-

misTvis „cocxis” axali efeqti?

mimixvdi, xom, ras vgulisxmob?

anu faqts, 2012 wlis analogiiT,

romelic sazogadoebis ganwy-

obebs erTmniSvnelovnad xelisu-

flebis winaaRmdeg mimarTavs? an

xom ar SeiZleba swored es dasax-

elebuli qeisebi iqces „cocxad”?

_ dasaxelebul qeisebSi, jerjeroboT,

amis potenciali ar

Cans, Tumca saerTo fons namdvilad

qmnian. axali saqmeebic

iqneba, magram am SemTxvevaSi, rogorc

arasdros, relevanturia sityva-cneba

„gaaCnia”.

_ gverds ver avuvli Cvens me-

zobel qveynebs Soris mimdinare

Setakebebs. somxeT-azerbaijanis

dapirispireba gascda yarabaxis

konfliqts da is formirdeba,

rogorc am ori qveynis dapiri-

spireba. pirvel dReebSi qarTv-

elma „prodasavlelma” eqsper-

tebma konfliqtis inspiracia

ruseTs Setenes, Tumca aSS-is

dazvervis samsaxuris monaceme-

biT, konfliqti azerbaijanma

daiwyo. samwuxarod, qarTuli

politikuri da saeqsperto wreebi

samezobloSi mimdinare pro-

cesebsac ver aanalizeben sa-

frTxis TvalsazrisiT, amitom

saintereso iqneboda Seni aRqma am

sakiTxze.

_ Cemi aRqma isaa, rom grZelvadiani

TvalsazrisiT somxeTs

azerbaijanTan saomari aRaraferi

aqvs, raki yvelaferi moipova 1990-

1994 wlebSi, rasac umiznebda;

xolo azerbaijanis prezidents

araerTxel uTqvams, rom misi qveyana

arasdros Seurigdeba teritoriul

xleCas; oRond saqmec isaa,

rom moklevadiani, situaciuri

TvalsazrisiT azerbaijans namdvilad

ar sWirdeboda sabrZolo

moqmedebebi ara saokupacio xazze,

e. i. mTiani yarabaRisa da sxva

okupirebuli teritoriebis mimdebared,

aramed uSualod azerbaijan-somxeTis

sazRvarze, raki

es garemoeba ruseTs miscems

kanonier safuZvels, Caerios omSi

somxeTis mxares: ruseTs somxeT-

Tan akavSirebs ormxrivi xelSekruleba

samxedro daxmarebis

Sesaxeb. mTian yarabaRTan ki moskovs

sul sxva mimarTeba aqvs: formalurad

cnobs mas azerbaijanis

nawilad. anu kiTxva: „raRa aqvs

saomari somxeTs?” iseve legitimuria,

rogorc sapirispiro kiTxva:

„raRa saxelmwifo sazRvarze

wamoiwyebda baqo konfliqts da

ara _ mTian yarabaRTan”? erTmniSvnelovani

pasuxi ar arsebobs. Tu

varaudebis sferodan „realpolitikaSi”

gadavinacvlebT, anu

davakvirdebiT, axla ra xdeba „miwaze”,

cxadia, rom dapirispirebuli

mxareebi, ase vTqvaT, „daamuxruWes”.

vin? Zneli misaxvedri ar

aris. erTi mxriv, moskovma _ erevani,

meore mxriv, ankaram _ baqo.

rogorc Cans, „aq da axla” arc

erT am regionul zesaxelmwifos

kavkasiaSi omi ar awyobs. isedac

eomebian erTmaneTs „proqsi”, anu

arapirdapir, siriasa da libiaSi.

_ da aqve, iaraRis Tema:

davijero, konfliqtis mxareebis

iaraRiT momaragebis sakiTxi,

Tundac saqarTveloSi tranziti,

ar kontroldeba Cveni strate-

giuli partnioris, aSS-is mier?

sxva Tu araferi, finansur tran-

zaqciebsac ki akontroleben da

iaraRis sakiTxi qarTveli meba-

Jis nebazea damokidebuli?

_ Zalian saintereso Temaa. upirvel

yovlisa, dRes ar arsebobs

gaeros uSiSroebis sabWos arc

erTi rezolucia, romelic akrZalavda

somxeTisTvis an azerbaijanisTvis

iaraRis miwodebas.

sxva saqmea geopolitikuri aspeqti.

aq saqarTvelo, ukve TiTqmis

30 welia, atarebs „Tanabarda-

Sorebis” politikas. es neitralitetis

erT-erTi formaa, romelsac,

martivad Tu vityviT, ori

„ofcia” aqvs: an arc erTi mxarisTvis

gankuTvnili iaraRi ar unda

gaataro, an orive mimarTulebiT

unda gaataro iaraRi. ase iqceoda

saqarTvelos yvela mTavroba,

damoukideblobis deklarirebidan

_ dRemde. saqarTveloSi

warmoebul ÑÓ-25 moieriSe bombdamSenebsac

orive mxares vawvdidiT

TiTqmis Tanabari raodenobiT.

azerbaijani uxvad iRebs iaraRs

mokavSire TurqeTisgan da israelidan

saqarTvelos teritoriisa

da sagareo sivrcis gavliT. aseve

somxeTi iRebs iaraRs ruseTisgan

saqarTvelos gavliT.

gagrZeleba 37-e gv.

23


òpoziciis siZliere

rodesac ivaniSvili da „qarTu-

Sorena marsagiSvili

li ocneba” xelisuflebaSi mosas-

599 92 16 22

vlelad ibrZodnen, adamianis

uflebebis dacvaze bevrs saubr-

obdnen. pirobas debdnen, rom arc axal danaSaulebs Caidendnen

da Zvel saqmeebsac gamoiZiebdnen, magram rogorc saakaS-

vils uyvars xolme Tqma, nuras ukacravad: arc Zveli saqmeebi

gamoiZies da Tavadac bevrjer daarRvies adamianis uflebebi.

„ocnebis” mmarTvelobis periodSi araerTi gaxmaurebuli mkv-

lelobis momswreni gavxdiT. imis nacvlad, rom xelisuflebas

damnaSaveebi daesaja, trol-botebis daxmarebiT gardacv-

lilebisa da Wirisuflebis diskrediteba daiwyo.

uflebadamcvel laSa Cxar-

tiSvilisTvis iluzia imis

Sesaxeb, rom samarTali izeimebda

maSin mokvda, roca ivaniS-

vili murusiZes Caexuta. misi

azriT, samarTliani sasamarT-

lo maSin iqneba qveyanaSi, roca

mosamarTleebs avirCevT.

ras fiqrobs opoziciaSi ar-

sebul ganxeTqilebaze? ratom

Seeqmna amomrCevels araswori

molodinebi? ratom aris uke-

Tesi, opozicias ramdenime kan-

didati rom hyavdes? raze unda

SeTanxmdes opozicia arCevnebis

win? _ amis Sesaxeb leiboris-

tuli partiis erT-erTi lideri,

laSa CxartiSvili, „qroni-

ka+~-s esaubreba:

_ laSa, 2012 wlamde „qarTu-

li ocnebis” wevrebTan erTad

Tqven araerTi aqcia moawyveT

samarTlianobis aRdgenisa da

damnaSaveebis dasjis moTxovn-

iT. aravis egona, rom samarT-

lianobis aRdgenis dapirebiT

mosuli xelisuflebis pirobebSi

adamianebs isev daxocavdnen

da damnaSavis dasjis nacv-

lad Wirisufals dauwyebdnen

devnas.

_ mas Semdeg, rac biZina ivaniSvili

levan murusiZes Caexuta,

samarTlianobis aRdgenis

imedi mokvda. aqedan gamomdinare,

savsebiT mosalodneli iyo

is realoba, romelSic axla

vimyofebiT. samwuxarod, Cven-

Tan dapirebebs arc erTi xelisufleba

ar asrulebs. Tavis

droze saakaSvili xelisuflebaSi

ori mkvlelis _ kaxa TargamaZisa

da vano CxartiSvilis

samarTliani kritikiT movida.

Cemi mogvare ekonomikuri mkvleli

iyo, TargamaZe adamianebis

uflebebs arRvevda, mis dros

bevri adamiani daiRupa. saakaSvils

arc erTi maTgani ar dausjia.

es sindromi ivaniSvilsac

gadaedo. xelisuflebaSi mosvlamde

mwvaved akritikebda „nacionalebs”,

xelisuflebaSi mosvlis

Semdeg ki damnaSaveebs Caexuta.

yvelam unda gavacnobieroT

erTi rame: sanam erTpartiuli

mmarTveloba ar Seicvleba,

saqarTvelos araferi eSveleba.

am Semodgomaze kargi

Sansi gvaqvs, rom ivaniSvilis xelisuflebasTan

erTad mTavrobis

dakompleqtebis wesi SevcvaloT.

mravalpartiuli parlamentis

Sedegad miviRebT koaliciur

mTavrobas. oRond ara iseT

koaliciurs, rogoric saak-

24

aSvilsa da ivaniSvils hqondaT.

xelisuflebaSi mosvlis win

orive maTganma fsevdokoaliciebi

Seqmna. iq ramdenime partia

ki iyo gawevrianebuli, magram

mTavari erTi partia iyo

da yvelafers erTi adamiani

wyvetda. rogorc vatyob, viRacebs

isev aqvT survili, rom

qveyana erTpirovnulad marTon.

axla yvelaferi sazogadoebazea

damokidebuli. amomrCeveli

gadawyvets, darCeba Tu ara ivaniSvili.

mravalpartiuli parlamenti

pirdapir aris damokidebuli

arCevnebze misul amomrCevelze.

qveyanaSi ra ubedurebac

trialebs, es pasiuri amomrCevlis

brali ufroa, vidre

imis, vinc kitrsa da pomidorze

iyideba da saxelisuflebo partias

aZlevs xmas.

_ aqamde amomrCevels karto-

filsa da xaxvs urigebdnen,

gasul kviras ki kitri da pomidori

gamoiyenes, ratom Seicv-

ala racioni?

_ amaze odnav mogvianebiT,

axla isev mravalpartiul parlamentze

gavamaxvileb yuradRebas.

realur mravalpartiul

parlaments Tu miviRebT,

maSin namdvilad SevZlebT im

dapirebebis Sesrulebas, romelic

opoziciam misca xalxs.

_ opozicia bevr rames dahpirdiT

xalxs da romeli dapirebis

Sesrulebas gulisx-

mobT?

_ imas, rom mosamarTleebi mainc

iyos arCeviTi. me Tu mkiTxavT,

mosamarTleebi ki ara, prokurorebi

da policiis ufrosebic

unda avirCioT. policiis

ufrosebis arCevas leiboristebi

Riad vuWerT mxars. Cvens

mosazrebas sxva partiebic iziareben.

imedi maqvs, rom amas mTeli

opozicia dauWers mxars da

arCevnebis Semdeg kanonSi sa-

Tanado cvlilebasac SevitanT.

_ saqarTveloSi policiis

ufrosis arCeva rogor war-

mogidgeniaT?

_ mSvenivrad. es iqneba Zalian

pozitiuri cvlileba.

_ viTom?

_ ra Tqma unda, pozitiuri

cvlileba iqneba. arCeuli policiis

ufrosi rom hyoloda mcxeTis

raions, rogor ggoniaT,

is imas gabedavda, rac axlandelma

policiis ufrosma gabeda

„SaqaraSvilis saqmeSi”? gamoricxulia!

arCeuli policiis

ufrosi aravis daafarebda xels

da arc samxilebis ganadgurebas

laSa CxartiSvili:

òqtomberSi

`qarTuli ocneba~

politikurad

unda gavasvenoT~

SeZlebda vinme.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom arCeu-

li policiis ufrosebi saqmee-

bs ar Cafarcxaven?

_ imitom, rom is amomrCevelzea

damokidebuli da amas ver

gabedavs. policiis ufrosebis

arCevis sistema amerikaSia da is

Zalian amarTlebs.

_ is amerikaa da magitomac

amarTlebs.

_ CvenmTanac gaamarTlebs.

arCeviTobis SemTxvevaSi policiis

ufrosic, mosamarTlec da

prokuroric sakuTari karieriT

ageben pasuxs amomrCevlis

winaSe. axla isini mxolod zemdgomis

anda erTpirovnuli mmar-

Tvelis winaSe arian pasuxismgebelni.

mosamarTleebis arCevis

wesze opozicia ukve SeTanxmebuli

varT. amasTan dakavSirebiT

dokumentebic gaformebuli

gvaqvs. axla rac Seexeba imas, Tu

ratom gadavida xelisufleba

kartofilidan da xaxvidan kitrsa

da pomidorze: aseTi rame,

pirvel rigSi, Tavad xelisuflebisTvis

aris samarcxvino.

miliarderi ivaniSvilis „qarTuli

ocneba” im donis siRatakeSi

agdebs adamianebs, rom Semdeg

xalxis nawili kitrsa da pomidorze

iyideba. Zalian daagviana

xelisuflebam daxmarebebis

gacema. axla erTi ambavi aqvT

atexili, bavSvebs 200-lariani

daxmareba rom unda miscen. amiT

ikeTeben saarCevnod piars xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi.

_ ra aris imaSi cudi, Tu 17

wlamde asakis bavSvebi 200-lar-

ian daxmarebas miiReben?

_ cudia araa, magram meti

Tanxa unda gacemuliyo. Tan am

Tanxis gacema dagvianebulia.

_ sjobs gvian, vidre aras-

dros.

_ gasagebia, magram xom gaaCnia,

ra dros daagvianeb. msoflioSi

ar meguleba qveyana, romelic

korona epidemiis gavlis

Semdeg daarigebs daxmarebas,

Tanac arasakmariss. maT mier

gamoyofili daxmareba aravisTvis

ar iqneba sakmarisi. Cven Tavidanve

viTxovdiT, rom yvela

ojaxze gaecaT 1.000-lariani

daxmareba. amis gameorebac ar

iqneboda urigo. saberZneTSi

`mas Semdeg, rac biZina ivaniSvili levan

murusiZes Caexuta, samarTlianobis aRdgenis

imedi mokvda. aqedan gamomdinare, savsebiT

mosalodneli iyo is realoba, romelSic axla

vimyofebiT. samwuxarod, CvenTan dapirebebs

arc erTi xelisufleba ar asrulebs~

900-evroiani daxmareba orjeradad

gaica moqalaqeebze. saberZneTi

araa mdidari qveyana,

am kompensaciis gacema maTTvis

mZime tvirTi iyo, magram iqaurma

xelisuflebam sakuTar Tavs

moaklo es fuli da xalxs dauriga.

CvenTan 5 miliardi vali

aiRes da kacma ar icis, raSi xarjaven

am fuls.

_ rogor Tu raSi, axali aveji

aqvT mTel rig saministro-

ebs SesaZeni. saavtomobilo

parkic gasaaxlebeli iqneba.

_ Cven gvZarcvaven da am naZarcvis

1%-s gvibruneben saar-

Cevnod kompensaciis saxiT. amaze

madloba ar unda vTqvaT. es

daxmareba yvelam unda aviRoT,

Tundac imitom, rom es CvenTvis

moparuli fulia. es daxmareba

unda aviRoT, magram oqtomber-

Si „qarTuli ocneba” politikurad

unda gavasvenoT. imas

unda mivaRwioT, rom saxelmwifo

biujeti xalxis mier iyos

kontrolirebadi, winaaRmdeg

SemTxvevaSi, is isev Cinosnebis

jibis fulad gadaiqceva. Tvenaxevris

win evrokavSiris elCma

ganacxada, rom saqarTvelo

pirvel adgilzea evropis mier

erT sul mosaxleze gaweuli

daxmarebis mxriv. warmogidgeniaT,

ramxela Tanxaa gamoyofili

CvenTvis da adamianebs ar

moxmardaT? sul Cinosnebis

jibeebSi wavida. mosaxleobis

didi nawili kvlav siRatakis

zRvars miRma cxovrobs.

_ samagierod, mTavrobaSi

gvyavs milionerebi.

_ 500 milioneri mainc gvyavs

qveyanaSi. aRsaniSnavia, rom bolo

2 weliwadSi milionerTa

raodenoba 1/3-iT gaizarda. ase-

Ti rame CvenisTana Rarib qveyanaSi

warmoudgenelia. Zalian

mniSvnelovani iqneba, Tu momavali

parlamenti gaamkacrebs kanonmdeblobas,

romelic dausabuTebel

qonebas exeba. Cinosnebma

yvela Tanxis warmomavloba

unda daasabuTon. es adekvaturi

procedurebia da aravis

gakulakebas ar viTxov. milionebis

Sovna CinosnebisTvis Cveul

ambad gadaiqca. iSeneben vilebs,

wylian Tu uwylo auzebs. aravin

sTxovs dasabuTebas, saidan moaqvT

ucbad amxela qoneba? se-

24 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


mis mravalferovnebaSia~

riozulad aris Sesacvleli

qonebrivi deklaraciebis Sevsebis

wesi. Cinosnebis didi nawili

qonebriv deklaraciaSi Tavis

qonebas srulad ar miuTiTebs.

mere roca amouqeqaven, rom

qoneba damala, Tavs imarTleben

_ ra moxd,a SemeSalao.

_ am Secdomebis gamo Cinos-

nebs kanoni fuladi jarimis

gadaxdas akisrebs.

_ ramdenia es jarima _ 1.000

lari? 1.000 lari maTTvis

araferia. milionebs malaven da

siamovnebiT gadaixdian ramdenimeaTasian

jarimas. es jarimebi

unda gauqmdes da qonebis damalvaze

unda iyos sisxlis samarTlis

pasuxismgebloba. sapatimro

sasjelic ar iqneboda

aseTi adamianebisTvis bevri.

amis garda biznesmenebs unda

aekraZaloT parlamentSi Sesvla.

imiT imarTleben Tavs, rom

direqtorebad ar muSaoben sakuTar

kompaniebSi. es satirali

rom ar yofilyo, sasacilo iqneboda.

oqriaSvils direqtori

erqmeva Tu daraji, ra mniSvneloba

aqvs, isaa mTavari Tavis

biznesSi. politikaSi mosul biznesmenebs

tenderebSi unda

aekrZaloT monawileobis miReba.

biznesmenebi rac naklebad

Caerevian politikaSi, miT uke-

Tesi iqneba qveynisTvis. maTi

sazrunavia sakuTari keTildReoba

da ara saxelmwifo. maTTvis

raRac Semaferxebeli meqanizmebi

unda dawesdes. sasurveli

iqneboda, rom maTTvis saerTod

agvekrZala parlamentSi Sesvla.

_ isini saqarTvelos moqal-

aqeebi arian da ranairad unda

avukrZaloT arCevnebSi monaw-

ileoba? amis uflebas maT qar-

Tuli kanonmdebloba aZlevs.

_ arCevnebSi monawileobas

ver davuSliT, magram, sul

mcire, tenderebSi monawileoba

mainc unda avukrZaloT. makraxiZis,

CoCelisa da oqriaSvilis

msgavs feodalebs ar unda Seva-

WmevinoT qveyana da misi biujeti.

isini xalxis gaRatakebis

xarjze gaxdnen milionerebi.

Cveni saxelmwifosTvis mcire da

saSualo biznesis xelSewyoba

unda iyos amosavali wertili.

maTTvis sagadasaxado SeRavaTebi

unda dawesdes. SesaZlebelia

gadasaxadebisgan srulad gan-

Tavisuflebac. mxolod ase Sev-

ZlebT, rom saqarTveloSi umu-

Sevrobis problema mogvardes.

_ mcire da saSualo biznesi

moagvarebs umuSevrobis prob-

lemas?

_ ra Tqma unda. imis nacvlad,

rom saSualo da mcire bizness

Seuwyon xeli, maT ebrZvian.

viRebT sul ufro gamsxvilebul

biznesebs da monopoliebs.

erTaderTi SemorCenili iyo

transporti da vaWroba, magram

amasac amsxvileben da kidev uamravi

adamiani darCeba samsaxurisa

da, Sesabamisad, sarCo-sabadeblis

gareSe.

_ zemoT Tqven TqviT, rom

zogierT politikoss isev aqvs

cduneba, qveyanas erTpirovnulad

marTavdeso. mixeil saakaS-

vils gulisxmobT? man gasul

kviras gaakeTa gancxadebebi da

amas didi ambebi mohyva. bevrs

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

`me Tu mkiTxavT, mosamarTleebi ki ara,

prokurorebi da policiis ufrosebic unda

avirCioT. policiis ufrosebis arCevas

leiboristebi Riad vuWerT mxars. Cvens

mosazrebas sxva partiebic iziareben. imedi

maqvs, rom amas mTeli opozicia dauWers

mxars da arCevnebis Semdeg kanonSi saTanado

cvlilebasac SevitanT~

darCa STabeWdileba, rom is

kvlav erTpirovnulad apirebs

qveynis marTvas, Tu amis Sansi

miecema.

_ marto saakaSvils ara, ase-

Ti survili sxvebsac aqvT. Zalian

didi cdunebis winaSe dgebian

xolme politikosebi. mixeil

saakaSvilis gancxadebas rac Seexeba,

es an wamocdena iyo, an

sareklamo fraza da is, ZiriTadad,

„nacionaluri moZraobis”

amomrCevelze gaxldaT gaTvlili.

_ mesame prezidentis am ga-

ncxadebebs opoziciaSi ukmayo-

fileba mohyva. amis gamo ganxe-

Tqilebas xom ar unda velo-

doT?

_ ganxeTqilebaze saubari araa

da opoziciaSi iseTi araferi

`biznesmenebs unda aekraZaloT parlamentSi

Sesvla. imiT imarTleben Tavs, rom

direqtorebad ar muSaoben sakuTar kompaniebSi.

es satirali rom ar yofilyo, sasacilo

iqneboda. oqriaSvils direqtori erqmeva Tu

daraji, ra mniSvneloba aqvs, isaa mTavari Tavis

biznesSi. politikaSi mosul biznesmenebs

tenderebSi unda aekrZaloT monawileobis

miReba. biznesmenebi rac naklebad Caerevian

politikaSi, miT ukeTesi iqneba qveynisTvis~

xdeba, rom saqme aqamde mivides.

erTi rame aucileblad unda

aRiniSnos: Cveni erTobidan ra-

Rac arasasurveli molodinebi

Seiqmna.

_ ra arasasurveli molod-

inebi?

_ araswori molodini gauCnda

xalxs.

_ araswor molodinSi ras

gulisxmobT?

_ viRacebma CaTvales, rom

Cven varT erTi gundi da er-

Tiani saarCevno siiT vmonawileobT

arCevnebSi. realoba cota

sxvaa. arCevnebSi mravali opoziciuri

partia monawileobs.

Cven erTiani viyaviT im brZola-

Si, romelic am qveyanas ganvi-

Tarebis perspeqtivas uqadis.

didi da erToblivi brZolis

Semdeg mivaRwieT imas, rom arCevnebi

srulad proporciulTan

miaxloebuli sistemiT Catardeba.

es imas noSnavs, rom parlamentSi

bevri partia moxvdeba.

mravalpartiuli parlamenti ki

saqarTvelos winsvlasa da ganviTarebas

Seuwyobs xels. er-

Tian siaze da erT saarCevno

blokze Cven arasdros gvisaubria

da mikvirs, Tu ratom gaCnda

aseTi molodinebi? arc is

mesmis, Tu ratom ukvirs xalxs

is, rom Cven rig sakiTxebs sxvadasxvanairad

vuyurebT?

_ iseTi gansxvavebulebi

xarT, aravin elodeboda, rom

yvela sakiTxze erTi pozicia

geqnebodaT. Tumca imas ki

vfiqrobdiT, rom 30 maJori-

tarze mainc SeTanxmdebodiT.

_ Tavidan gvindoda, rom 30

saarCevno olqSi erTiani kandidati

gvyoloda. es ar gamovida.

maJoritarebTan dakavSirebiT

rom ver SevTanxmdiT, arc es

aris tragedia.

_ tragedia araa, magram

xalxs gaurkvevlobaSi agdebs.

_ ratom agdebs xalxs

gaurkvevlobaSi? es erTgvari

konkurenciis nawilia. aranair

problemas ar warmoadgens, Tu

yvela opoziciur partias

eyoleba sakuTari maJoritarobis

kandidati. pirvel turSi es

normaluri iqneba. meore turSi

mTeli opozicia opoziciur

kandidats dauWers mxars. aqedan

gamomdinare, gadamwyveti araa,

rom opozicias erTiani kandidatebi

hyavdes. yvelaferi meore

turSi gadawydeba.

_ xelisufleba pirvelive

turSi apirebs gamarjvebas.

_ isini Zveli saarCevno sistemis

datovebasac apirebdnen,

magram ar gamouvidaT. arc pirvel

turSi gamouvaT sasurveli

Sedegis gaformeba. iqneba meore

turi, sadac opozicia gaimarjvebs.

roca erTian kandidatebze

daviwyeT saubari, amomrCevels

araswori molodinebi gavu-

CineT. etyoba, saTanadod ver

avxseniT, ra iyo Cveni Canafiqri.

visac Cven gamo imedebi gaucruvda,

vetyvi, rom azrTa sxvadasxvaoba

ganxeTqilebas ar

niSnavs. arc isaa tragedia, rom

erTiani kandidatebi ar gvyavs.

mTavaria, rom urTierTTavdausxmelobis

SeTanxmeba gvqondes.

winasaarCevno periodSi er-

TmaneTs ar unda davesxaT Tavs.

sxva SemTxvevaSi yvelam unda ibrZolos

sakuTari xmebisTvis.

xelisuflebis damarcxeba aranairi

problema araa. axla yvelaferi

damokidebulia xalxze,

maJoritarobis kandidatebis

warsulsa da awmyozec.

_ am urTierTTavdausxmelo-

basac rom ver icavT?

_ me ver vityvi, rom erTmaneTs

vesxmiT Tavs.

_ aba, es ra aris?

_ kritika normaluri movlenaa.

mixaria, rom yvelas sxvadasxva

azri aqvs da isic kargia,

roca opozicias erTiani bloki

ar Seuqmnia. wiTel xazebs ar

vkveTT. opozicia erTmaneTis

mimarT aseTi koreqtuli arasdros

yofila da amaze mets verafers

vizamT.

_ win sami Tvea, moaxlovdes

arCevnebi da vnaxavT, rogori

urTierTkoreqtulebi iqnebiT.

_ gamoricxuli araferia. Sei-

Zleba, Zalian mwvaved gavakritikoT

erTmaneTi. piradad me

verc amaSi vxedav tragedias.

mTavaria, imaze metad ar davupirisprdeT

erTmaneTs, vidre

xelisuflebas davupirispirdebiT.

sxva mxriv, Tu kritika

jansaRia, is araTu misaRebi, aucilebelic

ki aris. amasTan, Zalian

mniSvnelovania konkurencia.

_ konkurencia kargia, magram

am SemTxvevaSi mTavari isaa,

rom erTian kandidatebze ver

SeTanxmdiT.

_ mere ra? Cemi azriT, araswori

iyo erTian kandidatebze

saubari. konkurencia sjobs.

rac meti kandidati eyoleba opozicias,

miT met xmebs davakargvinebT

xelisuflebas. erT

blokad gadaqceva gegmaSic ar

gvqonia, amitom nuravis gaucruvdeba

imedi.

_ rogorc vatyob, yvelaf-

ris miuxedavad, optimisturad

xarT ganwyobili.

_ ufro realisturad. yvelaferi

axla amomrCevlis xel-

Sia. asarCevi kandidatebi da

partiebi aris. Cveni Zala mravalferovnebaSia

da gvaqvs Sansi,

rom marTlac mravalpartiuli

parlamenti miviRoT.

25

8 agvistos saqarTvelom kidev

Sorena marsagiSvili

erTxel gaiara bewvis xidze. ax-

599 92 16 22

alqalaqSi dawyebuli sisxliani

dapirispireba, romelic mkvlelobiT

da saxlebis gadawviT dasrulda, droebiT SeCerebulia. jav-

axeTi is regionia, romlis arevasac ruseTi Zalian didi xania,

cdilobs. wlebis winaT am regionSi saqarTvelos iurisdiqcia

mxolod formalurad vrceldeboda. javaxeTSi SeiaraRebul

formirebebs Slagbaumi hqondaT aRmarTuli da iq qarTvel Cino-

snebs ar uSvebdnen. ase Tu gagrZelda, male javaxeTSi SeiZleba,

igive moxdes, rac gasuli saukunis 90-ian wlebSi xdeboda.

es ambebi kargad axsovs samcxe-javaxeTis

yofil gubernator

gigla baramiZes. is TiTqmis

7 weli iyo am mxareSi prezi-

dentis rwmunebuli da karga xani

isic ver Sedioda javaxeTSi, _

mas axalqalaqsa da ninowmindaSi

ar uSvebdnen. maSin saqarTvelos

xelisuflebis wevrebisTvis javaxeTSi

moxvedra mxolod vertm-

freniT SeiZleboda. baramiZis

daniSvnamde erTi TviT adre iq

saqarTvelos mTavrobis delegacia

Cafrinda. ministrebi adgi-

lobrivi formirebis wevrebma

mZevlad aiyvanes da ramdenime

saaTi sabZelSi hyavdaT gamo-

ketili. SeiaraRebuli formirebebi

javaxeTSi isev gamoCnd-

nen. „qronika+~ araerTxel wer-

da enzel mkoianis formirebis

TareSis Sesaxeb. saqarTvelos xe-

lisuflebam ase Tu gaagrZela,

javaxeTSi SeiZleba, isev Slag-

baumebi dadgan.

ras gadaurCa gasul kviras

saqarTvelo? ra safrTxeebis

winaSe dgas javaxeTis regioni?

rogor aRdga iq wlebis winaT

saqarTvelos iurisdiqcia? vin

mfarvelobda

SeiaraRebul

formirebebs? ra unda gaakeTos

moqmedma xelisuflebam arsebul

situaciaSi? _ amis Sesaxeb „qron-

ika+”-s esaubreba „erTiani

saqarTvelo _ demokratiuli

moZraobis” generaluri mdivani,

gigla baramiZe:

_ gasul kviras saqarTvelom

kidev erTxel gaiara bewvis

xidze. 8 agvistos axalqalaqSi

dawyebuli sisxliani dapirispireba

kinaRam farTomasStabi-

an konfliqtSi gadaizarda. am

regionis specifikidan gamom-

dinare bevrs SeeSinda. Tqven

wlebis manZilze iyaviT am mxare-

Si prezidentis rwmunebuli.

iciT iqaurebis xasiaTi. ras gve-

tyviT 8 agvistos incidentze?

ratom mivida saqme aqamde?

_ javaxeTSi Zalian rTuli vi-

Tareba Seiqmna. visurvebdi, rom

iq es feTqebadsaSiSi situacia

Cacxres da mas gagrZeleba aRar

mohyves. xazgasmiT minda imis

aRniSvnac, rom javaxeTSi Zalian

Rirseuli, mSromeli da gverd-

Simdgomi adamianebi cxovroben.

amave dros isini Taviseburi da

emociuri xasiaTiTac gamoirCevian.

yvela Zalian SevwuxdiT imis

gamo, rac axalqalaqSi gasul kviras

moxda, magram es mosalodnelic

iyo. javaxeTSic im standartebma

iCina Tavi, rasac mTel

qveyanaSi amkvidrebs „qarTuli

ocneba”. yvelgan usamarTloba da

dausjelobis sindrmia gamefebu-

26


àxalqalaqis incidenti

li. mTelma saqarTvelom naxa kadrebi,

Tu rogor darboda erTi

„qarTul ocnebasTan” daaxloebuli

piri axalqalaqis centrSi

iaraRiT xelSi da isroda.

_ enzel mkoianzea saubari?

_ diax. is jer isev „qarTuli

ocnebis” deputatia da iaraRidan

srolis gamo mas kaciSvilma pasuxi

ar mosTxova. rodesac mosaxleoba

am yvelafers uyurebs,

isic cdilobs igives gameorebas.

8 agvistos javaxeTSi saSineleba

moxda, romlis Tavidan acileba

Tavisuflad SeiZleboda. kulikamis

mkvidrisa da axalqalaqis sastumros

mepatrones Soris dapirispireba,

rasac es ambebi mohyva,

ori welia, rac mimdinareobs. am

drois manZilze samxareo administracias,

adgilobriv policias,

sussa da axalqalaqis merias

SeeZloT problemis mogvareba.

aseT uTanxmoebaze sxva regionSi

kidev SeiZleba Tvali daxuWo,

magram javaxeTSi ase moqceva

ar SeiZleba. es mxare Zalian

did sifrTxiles moiTxovs. am

regions erT mxares somxeTi esazRvreba,

xolo meore mxares _

TurqeTi. iq kidev sxva faqtorebic

aris, rac viTarebas kidev

ufro arTulebs. „qarTulma ocnebam”

es arad Caagdo da Sedegic

mZime dadga. imedi maqvs, rom dapirispireba

amaze Sors ar wava,

magram kargad vicnob ra iqaurTa

bunebas, es ambebi ase iolad da

male ar dasruldeba.

rodesac Cven intervius vwerT,

konfliqti ganeitralebulia.

dapirispirebis gasaneitraleblad

xelisuflebas araferi

gaukeTebia. isev Tavad dapirispirebuli

mxareebi daiSalnen da

wavidnen. axalqalaqis mosaxleobas

rogor unda hqondes saxelmwifos

imedi, roca sakuTari

TvaliT ixila, ra xdeboda maT

qalaqSi. jgufebad darbodnen

adamianebi, iyo linCis wesiT gasamarTlebac.

manqanebi dazianda, 5

Senoba gadawves, magram xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi arsad

Candnen. specrazmic maSinRa Seiyvanes,

roca TiTqmis yvelaferi

damTavrebuli iyo. SemiZlia vTqva,

rom kidev kargad gadavrCiT.

sazRvrispira regionebSi specsamsaxurebi

gaaTmagebulad unda

muSaobdnen, magram CvenTan yvelaferi

miSvebulia. xelisuflebas

mxolod piradi keTildReoba

ainteresebs. qveynis usafrTxoebis

dacva maTTvis meorexarisxovania.

Cveni specsamsaxurebic

sul sxva specifikiT muSaoben da

maTi muSaobis stili Zalian ucnauria.

8 agvisto yvela qarTvelisTvis

umZimesi dRea, agvistos

gigla baramiZe:

`xelisuflebis

upasuxismgeblobam

javaxeTSi saqme,

lamis, samoqalaqo

omamde miiyvana~

omis wlisTavia da yvelani muxaTgverdis

sasaflaoze viyaviT

asuli, sadac teritoriuli

mTlianobisTvis daRupul gmirebs

pativi mivageT. iq imyofeboda

diplomatiuri korpusi da

Cveni xelisufleba. Cvenma specsamsaxurebma

iqauroba specialuri

danadgarebiT ise gaTiSes,

rom telefoni ar muSaobda. ai,

esaa ivaniSvilis specsamsaxurebis

muSaoba. amis iqiT ver midian.

rogorc ukve vTqvi, dapirispireba,

romelic areulobaSi

gadaizarda, ori wlis win daiwyo.

specsamsaxurebs dapirispirebuli

mxareebis Serigebaze unda

emuSava. iseTi regionis miSveba,

rogoric javaxeTia, arafriT Sei-

Zleba. arc sxva regionebi unda

miuSva, magram aq gansakuTrebuli

yuradReba da sifrTxilea saWiro.

Seni araprofesionalizmisa

da umaqnisobis gamo samoqalaqo

omis niSnebi ar unda gaaCino.

_ iyo axalqalaqSi samoqalaqo

omis niSnebi?

_ iyo. axalqalaqi da mTlianad

javaxeTi aris specifikuri regioni

da iq nebismieri konfliqti

SeiZleba, Zalian mZime SedegebiT

dasruldes. me iq 7 weli vimuSave

da kargad Seviswavle

rogorc regionis specifika,

aseve iqauri mosaxleobis xasiaTi.

_ ise miuSves es regioni, rom

araa gamoricxuli, aq gasuli

saukunis 90-iani wlebi dabrundes,

rodesac javaxeTSi Ca-

suli saqarTvelos mTavrobis

wevrebi mZevlad aiyvanes.

_ es erTi TviT adre moxda,

sanam me samcxe-javaxeTSi gubernatorad

daviniSnebodi. saqarT-

ìs jer isev `qarTuli ocnebis~ deputatia da

iaraRidan srolis gamo mas kaciSvilma pasuxi

ar mosTxova. rodesac mosaxleoba am

yvelafers uyurebs, isic cdilobs igives

gameorebas. 8 agvistos javaxeTSi saSineleba

moxda, romlis Tavidan acileba Tavisuflad

SeiZleboda. kulikamis mkvidrisa da

axalqalaqis sastumros mepatrones Soris

dapirispireba, rasac es ambebi mohyva, ori

welia, rac mimdinareobs. am drois manZilze

samxareo administracias, adgilobriv

policias, sussa da axalqalaqis merias

SeeZloT problemis mogvareba~

velos iusticiis ministri, saxelmwifo

kancelariis regionuli

samsaxuris ufrosi, parlamentis

Tavmjdomaris moadgile da sxva

msxvili moxeleebi javaxeTSi

vertmfreniT Cafrindnen. sxvanairad

javaxeTSi moxvedra Seu-

Zlebeli iyo.

_ samanqane gziT ratom ar

SeiZleboda Sesvla?

_ regionis misadgomebi gadaketili

iyo. Slagbaumebi aRmarTes

da saqarTvelos xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebs ar uSvebdnen.

samcxe-javaxeTis gubernators

ninowminda da axalqalaqi

ar cnobda. ambobdnen, javaxe-

Ti saqarTveloa, magram gubernators

ar veqvemdebarebiTo.

saqarTvelos mTavrobis wevrebi

amitom Cafrindnen vertmfreniT

javaxeTSi. iq maT daxvdnen erTerTi

SeiaraRebuli formirebis

wevrebi. maT vertmfrens alya

Semoartyes, maRalCinosnebi gadmosxes

da ramdenime saaTiT sab-

ZelSi hyavdaT Caketilebi. faqtobrivad,

mZevlad aiyvanes. im SeiaraRebul

formirebebs, romlebsac

Slagbaumebi hqondaT aRmarTuli,

axalqalaqSi mdebare

ruseTis 62-e satanko diviziis

samxedro baza umagrebda zurgs.

_ es is samxedro bazaa, romlis

gayvanasac salome zurabiS-

vili Tavis miRwevad miiCnevs?

_ mag bazis gayvanas ibralebs

eg matrona. rusi samxedroebiT

zurggamagrebuli formirebebi

arafers eridebodnen. SlagbaumTan

rom mixvidodi, mxarze

dagadebdnen iaraRs da getyodnen,

_ romeli saxelmwifodan

Semoxvedi, genacvale? aseTi kiTxva

nebismiers gamoiyvanda wyobidan.

aRsaniSnavia, rom am

formirebebSi marto eTnikuri

somxebi ar iyvnen gawevrianebuli,

saqarTvelos sxva moqalaqeebic

iyvnen maT rigebSi. es SeiaraRebuli

formirebebi sakmaod seriozul

Zalas warmoadgenda. maT

mxolod iaraRi ki ar eWiraT xelSi,

samxedro wvrTnebsac atarebdnen.

samxedro swavlebebi yofili

pionerTa banakebis teritoriaze

tardeboda.

26 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


ase martivad ar dasruldeba~

regionSi yvaoda kontrabanda,

romelsac SeiaraRebuli formirebebi

akontrolebdnen da mas

veravin exeboda. kontrabandis

nawili saqarTvelodan rusuli

samxedro bazis kuTvnili trailerebiT

gadioda. magaliTad,

gaiReboda 62-e diviziis bazis

WiSkari, 40-50 samxedro kamazi iyo

Camwkrivebuli, gadaZeZili bazaltis

qviT da xe-tyiT. ase Camwkrivebulebi

gamoivlidnen axalcixes,

taSiskars, borjoms, Cavidodnen

nataxtramde, mere gadauxvevdnen

da samxedro gziT midiodnen

ruseTSi. maT gaCerebas veravin

bedavda. Tu gaaCerebdnen

da hkiTxavdnen, ra migavqTo?

samxedroebi pasuxobdnen, _ aba,

Cven ra viciTo. manqanebis Semowmeba

gamoricxuli iyo. javaxeTSi

rom Cavedi, iq araqarTuli simbolikebi

damxvda. saxelmwifo

uwyebebze ucxo qveynis politikuri

partiebis droSebi frialebda.

korufcia yvaoda da Suamavlebis

instituti moqmedebda.

_ ras warmoadgenda es Suamav-

lebis instituti?

_ Tbilisi, rogorc ukve aRvniSne,

javaxeTSi viTarebas ver

akontrolebda, magram TbilisSi

iyvnen adamianebi, romlebsac javaxeTSi

kargi kavSirebi hqondaT.

isini midiodnen SevardnaZesTan

da etyodnen, policiis an sabaJos

ufrosad amas da amas Tu daniSnavT,

saqme kargad iqnebao.

_ Suamavlebi qarTvelebi

iyvnen Tu somxebi?

_ qarTvelebi. saubaria Tbilisel

yofil Cinovnikebze an

sazogadoebisTvis cnobil saxeeebze.

isini amas uangarod ar

akeTebndnen. javaxeTSi TavianTi

interesebi amoZravebdaT. es Suamavlebi

fuls akeTebdnen mxolod.

yvela sxva sikeTesTan er-

Tad javaxeTi gaZeZgili iyo iaraRiT.

am iaraRis amoRebis operaciaSi

uSualod vmonawileobdi.

_ iaraRis amoReba rwmunebu-

lis saqme rom ar iyo?

_ sxva gamosavali ar mqonda.

roca iaraRis amoRebis operacias

vatarebdiT, rwmunebulic viyavi,

policiis ufrosic da uSiSroebis

samsaxursac vxelmZRvanelobdi.

uSualod rom ar ameRo es

sakuTar Tavze, aravin gamomyveboda.

axalqalaqSi cxovrobda

erTi kaci, romelsac metsaxeliT

icnobdnen. mere is cixeSi ijda.

mogvivida informacia, rom mis

ojaxSi inaxeboda 7 erTeuli raketa

„dedamiwa haeri”. amis Sesaxeb

yvelam yvelaferi icoda, magram

ver ekarebodnen. specoperaciis

Casatareblad bevri

wavediT. samxedroebic waviyvane.

mniSvnelovani operacia iyo da

mxolod sando xalxi waviyvane.

roca daukakunes da uTxres, rom

saxli unda gaeCxrikaT, gabrazda,

_ rogor mibedavTo?! amaT uTxres,

_ es meTodi aRar gamogiva,

CvenTan erTad gubernatoriao.

roca mixvda, rom saqme seriozulad

iyo, SeuSva operatiuli

jgufi. amoviReT is raketebi.

TbilisSi CamovitaneT da CavabareT.

avtomatebze aRarafers vambob,

lamis yvela ojaxSi inaxebo-

`javaxeTSi Zalian rTuli viTareba Seiqmna. visurvebdi, rom iq es

feTqebadsaSiSi situacia Cacxres da mas gagrZeleba aRar mohyves. xazgasmiT

minda imis aRniSvnac, rom javaxeTSi Zalian Rirseuli, mSromeli da

gverdSimdgomi adamianebi cxovroben. amave dros isini Taviseburi da

emociuri xasiaTiTac gamoirCevian~

da. javSanmanqanac ki maqvs amoRebuli.

_ masac kerZo piri flobda?

_ kerZo pirs hyavda da sabZel-

Si malavda.

_ iaraRis amoReba umtkivneu-

lo procesi iyo?

_ ara, Zalian bevri winaaRmdegoba

gvxvdeboda. ramdenjerme

gvesroles kidevac. erTxel kamazis

mZRoli daaTvres da dagvadevnes.

unda dagvjaxeboda,

faravnis mdinareSi gadavegdeT,

Zlivs gadavrCiT. mere im manqanis

gaCereba movaxerxeT. mZRoli ise-

Ti mTvrali iyo, Zlivs gadmovida

manqanidan. man ar icoda, vis

ejaxeboda. uTxres, rom manqanaSi

is kaci iyo, vinc qveyanas safrTxes

uqmnida. bevri rame gadamxda

Tavs gubernatorobis dros, magram

Cems Tavze saubari ar minda.

àxalqalaqis mosaxleobas rogor unda

hqondes saxelmwifos imedi, roca sakuTari

TvaliT ixila, ra xdeboda maT qalaqSi.

jgufebad darbodnen adamianebi, iyo linCis

wesiT gasamarTlebac. manqanebi dazianda, 5

Senoba gadawves, magram xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi arsad Candnen. specrazmic

maSinRa Seiyvanes, roca TiTqmis yvelaferi

damTavrebuli iyo. SemiZlia vTqva, rom kidev

kargad gadavrCiT~

seriozuli problema iyo samxerxaoebis

daxurva. es samxerxaoebi

tyeSi hqondaT pirdapir mowyobili

da maT avtomatiani xalxi

darajobda. tyeSi rom xar, avtomati

gaqvs da viRac mogdevs,

srolis cduneba giCndeba. Cvenc

gvesrodnen, magram mainc movaxerxeT

da samxerxaoebis didi nawili

davxureT. gadavketeT is

gzebi, saidanac kontrabanda gadioda.

150-mde aseTi SemovliTi

gza iyo. Zalian gviWirda saqarTvelos

saxelmwifo sazRvris im

monakveTis kontroli, romelic

samcxe-javaxeTze gadioda. iq

rusi mesazRvreebi idgnen.

_ rusi mesazRvreebis baza

axalcixeSi iyo?

_ rusi mesazRvreebi axalcixeSi

idgnen. saqarTvelo-TurqeTis

saxelmwifo sazRvris 155-kilometrian

monakveTs rusi mesazRvreebi

akontrolebdnen. iq qarTveli

mesazRvreebi 1998 wels Cadgnen.

cxonebuli valeri CxeiZe iyo

maSin sasazRvro Zalebis sardali.

Zalian bevrs muSaobda am sakiTxze.

sul axalcixeSi darboda.

TbilisSi Casuli ar iyo, roca

isev ukan brundeboda. bevri mu-

Saobis Sedegad movaxerxeT, rom

iqidan rusebi gavidnen da saqarTvelos

saxelmwifo sazRvris gakontroleba

qarTvelma mesazRvreebma

daiwyes. es Zalian mniSvnelvani

ambavi iyo. me-16 saukunis

Semdeg iq pirvelad Cadgnen

qarTvelebi. samwuxarod, es ambavi

aravis gauSuqebia, isevev rogorc

axalqalaqidan rusuli jarebis

gayvana. amas pirvelma arxma mxolod

ramdenimewamiani siuJeti

miuZRvna. maSindel saxelisuflebo

elitas am Temebis gaSuqeba ar

awyobda. im adamianebze vsaubrob,

romlebic „moqkavSiris” liderebi

iyvnen da Semdeg „nacionalur”

moZraobaSi gadainacvles. samcxejavaxeTis

gubernatorad sanam

daviniSnebodi, somxeTSi viyavi

saqarTvelos sruluflebiani

elCi. roca SevardnaZem miTxra,

rom gubernatorad unda wavsuliyavi,

Tavidan uari vuTxari.

CemTvis es mxare ucxo iyo. SevardnaZem

elCis Tanamdeboba SeminarCuna,

rac javaxeTSi arsebuli

problemebis mogvarebaSi

Zalian damexmara.

_ rogor dagexmaraT?

_ me kargi urTierToba mqonda

somxeTis xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebTan,

maT Soris, prezident

terpetrosianTan. roca

raRac problemebi iqmneboda axalqalaqsa

da ninowmindaSi, maT-

Tan vrekavdi, isini urekavdnen

amaT da saqme keTdeboda. somxe-

Tis xelisufleba saqarTvelos

teritoriul mTlianobas mxars

uWerda. amis miuxedavad maT javaxeTis

adgilobriv xelisuflebaze

gavlenebi hqondaT. mTeli

rigi mizezebis gamo regioni giumrize

iyo mibmuli. Tbilisisken

aravin ixedeboda. saswavlebladac

iq midiodnen da samkurnalodac.

iqaurebs ruseTisa da somxeTis

moqalaqis pasportebi hqondaT.

_ axlac javaxeTis mosaxleo-

bis naxevarze meti an ruseTis

moqalaqea, an _ somxeTis.

_ Zalian bevria javaxeTidan

ruseTSi samuSaod wasuli da iq

miiRes ruseTis moqalaqeoba. isini

aranair problemebs ar qmnian.

maxsovs, javaxeTSi lars saerTod

ar cnobdnen. ambobdnen, rom

rusuli rubli aeRoT. dRes mTlad

aseTi viTareba araa, magram

saqarTvelos xelisuflebas yvelaferi

iqiT mihyavs, rom javaxeTSi

SeiZleba seriozuli problemebi

Seiqmnas. qveyanaSi arsebuli

dausjelobis sindromi am regionzec

gavrcelda. am regionis

mosaxleobamac CaTvala, rom maTac

aqvT iaraRiT sirbilis ufleba.

marTalia, bevr siZneles wavawydiT,

magram yvela problema, rac

javaxeTSi iyo, welSi gadavtexeT.

axlandel viTarebas rom vuyureb,

guli mtkiva. imaze arafers

vambob, rom xelisuflebaSi mosulma

„nacionalebma” Cemze saqme

aRZres da 9 weli devnili viyavi.

_ „nacionalebma” tyuilad ki

aRgiZres saqme, magram imas ver

uaryofT, rom maT javaxeTSi

wesrigi SeinarCunes.

_ amis uaryofas arc vapireb.

maT dros situacia kontrols

eqvemdebareboda da aseTi ganukiTxaoba

ar iyo. amaTma kidev ra

qnes?! _ lamis samoqalaqo omis

winaSe dagvayenes. am viTarebidan

gamosavalia kanons daqvemdebarebuli

simkacre, xalxis mofereba

da 24-saaTiani muSaoba. Tan es

yvelaferi sufTa xelebiT unda

ganaxorcielo. rameSi gasvrili

Tu xar, araferi gamogiva. xalxi

arc Sens simkacres miiRebs da

arc Sens moferebas. Cven sufTa

xelebiT viyaviT. me aranairi

qoneba ar damigrovebia gubernatorobis

dros. arc likanSi maqvs

saxli, arc bakurianSi da arc

abasTumanSi. Cems Svils iq rom

unda dasveneba, saxls vqiraobT

da ise vuSveb.

_ korufciaSi Tqveni dadana-

Sauleba „nacionalebmac” ki ar

ikadres.

_ sazogadoebrivi wesrigis

darRvevisa da xulignobisTvis

aRmiZres saqme. saWiroa sufTa

xelebiT muSaoba. javaxeTi Zalian

rTuli regionia. „nacionalebma”

regionSi simSvide SeinarCunes.

amaT kidev veraferi gaakeTes. 8

agvistos javaxeTmac da danarCenma

saqarTvelomac bewvis xidze

gaviareT. samwuxarod, es ambavi

ase martivad ar dasruldeba.

_ areuloba gardauvalia?

_ gaaCnia, rogor imuSavebs xelisufleba.

saswradfod unda

daiwyos am ojaxebis erTmaneTTan

Serigeba. dapirispireba mTis

xalxs Soris moxda, isini ki emociurebi

arian da maT Soris seriozuli

mtroba iqneba. kacma ar

icis, rodis ra amoxeTqavs. javaxeTSi

ki ara, TbilisSi xdeba saSineleba.

dedaqalaqic iaraRiT

aris gaZeZgili. amas aravin uyurebs,

samagierod, mTavrobis wevrebi

Tu sadme midian, iqaurobas

specialuri danadgarebiT axSoben

da kavSirgabmulobas TiSaven.

ai, es hgoniaT amaT muSaoba.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

27

visTan erTad darbis aSS-Si

saqarTvelos elCi senatsa da

kongresSi? ra problemebis

winaSe dgas biZina ivaniSvili?

ra unda gaiTvaliswinon „qar-

Tuli ocnebis” wevrebma? ras

aRar gaatarebs dasavleTi?

raze esaubreba qarTvel Cinos-

nebs keli degnani? ratom ar

aqvs gaxarias vinmesTvis Tval-

ebSi Caxedvis ufleba? daiwyo

Tu ara amomrCevlis mosyidva

mmarTvelma Zalam? _ am Temebze

dimitri biZinaSvili „qronika+~-

s esaubreba:

_ xelisuflebam didi zarze-

imiT gvamcno, rom 17 wlamde

asakis bavSvebi 200-larian dax-

marebas miiReben. opozicia da

arasamTavroboebi am ambavs

dadebiTad ar SexvedrixarT.

Tqveni aRSfoTeba ar moewona

premier gaxarias da is mzadaa,

nebismier Tqvengans TvalebSi

Caxedos da ase moisminos argu-

mentebi.

_ rogorc Cans, axalgazrdebis

Tvalebi giorgi gaxarias susti

wertilia. rac marTalia mar-

Talia, mas kargad gamosdis

rogorc Tvalebis daTxra, aseve

TvalebSi nacris Seyra. rac Seexeba

am 200-larian daxmarebebs,

es ara bavSvebze, aramed maTi

mSoblebis gulis mogebazea ga-

Tvlili. „qarTul ocnebas” saer-

Tod ar ainteresebs bavSvebi.

arc maTi mSoblebi adardebs,

magram win arCevnebia da iZulebuli

arian, ase moiqcnen. maT

marTla daxmareba rom sdomodaT,

gacilebiT adre daarigebdnen.

roca koronas gamo sagangebo

mdgomareoba gamocxadda, yvelaferi

gaCerda. Cven „qarTul

ocnebas” araerTxel movuwodeT,

rom mosaxleobas daxmarebodnen.

amaze Zalian gabrazdnen da ganacxades,

rom yvelaferi kargad

midis da aravis sWirdeba jer

daxmarebao. daxmarebebis gacemis

vadebi ramdenjerme gadaswies

da is arCevnebs miuaxloves.

rogorc gavigeT, 17 wlamde bavSvebisTvis

fulis Caricxvis

pirveli etapi 15 seqtembrisTvis

daiwyeba. SegviZlia vTqvaT, rom

yvavs kakali gavagdebineT, magram

gagdebuli kakali aSkarad amomrCevlis

mosyidvazea gaTvlili.

Cven xom araerTi faqti gvinaxavs,

Tu rogor cdilobs ivaniSvilis

partia moisyidos amomrCeveli.

_ mosyidvaze uars ar ityvis

„qarTuli ocneba”, magram mainc

kargia, adamianebi daxmarebas

rom miiReben. Tavadac TqviT:

kargia, Tu yvavs kakals gaagde-

binebo.

28


`male biZina ivaniSvili erTi

dasavleTidan wamosul mwvave

Sorena marsagiSvili

Sefasebebs „qarTuli ocneba” Ta-

599 92 16 22

vis mxrivac mwvaved afasebs. mmarTveli

partiis warmomadgenlebis

mtkicebiT, amerikeli senatorebi da kongresmenebi „na-

cionalebis” gavlenis qveS arian. etyoba, am versiis Tavadac

sjeraT da cdiloben, strategiul partniors goneba ga-

unaTon. rogorc moZraoba „Secvales” lideri dimitri biZinaSvili

„qronika+~-sTan ambobs, aSS-Si saqarTvelos elCi kon-

gressa da senatSi darbis, magram araferi gamosdis.

599 92 16 22 dimitri biZinaSvili:

_ Cveni moqalaqeebi rom fulad

daxmarebas miiReben, es ambavi

Zalian maxarebs. amasTan, minda

maT vuTxra, rom am daxmarebis

gamo aravis madlierebi ar

unda iyvnen.

_ madlierebi ratom ar unda

iyvnen?

_ imitom, rom es daxmareba

gaicema saxelmwifo biujetidan.

es biujeti ekuTvnis qarTvel

xalxs, radganac is Cveni moqalaqeebis

mier gadaxdili gadasaxadebiT

ivseba. es aris xalxis

fuli da daxmarebis saxiT xalxs

Tavisive fuli ubruundeba ukan.

ramdenime TviT adre rom darigebuliyo

es daxmareba, eWvebi ar

gaCndeboda, magram roca arCevnebi

oqtomberSia da daxmareba

seqtemberSi rigdeba, iq bunebrivia,

gaCndeba kiTxvebic da eWvebic.

_ amomrCevlis mosyidva axseneT

da gasul kviras moqalaqeebisTvis

kitrisa da po-

midvris darigebac mosyidvad

Sefasda. aseTi faqtebi kidev

iqneba. ras daupirispirebs amas

opozicia da samoqalaqo sa-

zogadoeba?

_ Zalian mwydeba guli imaze,

rom rusma oligarqma es qveyana

gaaRataka. Tan ise gaaRataka, rom

adamianebi sadRac dgebian rig-

Si, rom ufasod aiRon erTi kilo

kitri da pomidori. 2012 wels

„qarTuli ocneba” saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebs, maT Soris, am adamianebsac

hpirdeboda, rom samuSao

adgilebs Seqmnida da saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebi Rirseulad

icxovrebdnen. biujetis fulebi

jibeSi rom ar waeRoT da samuSao

adgilebi SeeqmnaT, maT mier

darigebuli kartofili da pomidori

aravis dasWirdeboda.

minda, yvelas mivmarTo, rom im

adamianebs nu galanZRaven, vinc

kitrsa da pomidors iRebs. maT,

ubralod, sxva gza aRar darCaT.

isini saarsebos gareSe darCnen.

es oligarqiuli mmarTvelobis

erT-erTi formaa. mmarTveli

yvelafers akeTebs xalxis gasa-

Ratakeblad. gaWirvebuli xalxis

marTva da mosyidva, rogorc

wesi, bevrad ufro advilia. xalxi

gaRatakebulia, magram es is

SemTxveva ar aris, roca „qarTul

ocnebas” amomrCevlis mosyidva

gamouva.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom „qar-

Tul ocnebas” amomrCevlis mos-

yidva aRar gamouva? ra SeuSlis

xels?

_ xels is SeuSlis, rom arCevnebi,

romelic oqtomberSi tardeba,

Cveulebrivi arCevnebi araa.

_ ras niSnavs, Cveulebrivi

àSS-Si saqarTvelos

elCi lobistebTan erTad

darbis senatSi, magram

aravin Rebulobs~

àrc amerikis elCi dadis tyuilad

saqarTvelos xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebTan. es qalbatoni xan mTavar

prokurorTan midis, xan - giorgi gaxariasTan.

zogjer biZina ivaniSvilsac stumrobs xolme.

axla Tu vinmes hgonia, rom elCi da

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi Wiqa yavasa da

peplebze saubroben, Zalian cdebian.

amerikelebi pirdapir eubnebian ivaniSvils, Tu

ra elodeba arCevnebis gayalbebis SemTxvevaSi~

`Zalian mwydeba guli imaze, rom rusma

oligarqma es qveyana gaaRataka. Tan ise

gaaRataka, rom adamianebi sadRac dgebian

rigSi, rom ufasod aiRon erTi kilo kitri da

pomidori. 2012 wels `qarTuli ocneba~

saqarTvelos moqalaqeebs, maT Soris, am

adamianebsac hpirdeboda, rom samuSao

adgilebs Seqmnida da saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi

Rirseulad icxovrebdnen. biujetis fulebi

jibeSi rom ar waeRoT da samuSao adgilebi

SeeqmnaT, maT mier darigebuli kartofili da

pomidori aravis dasWirdeboda~

arCevnebi araa?

_ imas, rom Semodgomaze mxolod

parlaments ar virCevT.

oqtomberSi gadawydeba, Tu ra

gzas airCevs saqarTvelo _ gaagrZelebs

dasavleTis mimarTulebiT

svlas, Tu CrdiloeTisken

wava? 2012 wlidan moyolebuli

vambobT, rom saqarTvelos mar-

Tavs rusi oligarqi. rusma oligarqma

erTi wlis winaT premierad

ruseTis moqalaqe gaxaria

dagvisva. aqamde dasavleTSi amis

ar sjerodaT. axla mTeli evropa

da amerika imaze saubrobs,

rom saqarTvelos rusi oligarqi

marTavs. amerikeli kongresmenebi

da senatorebi pirdapir weren

dokumentebSi, rom saqarTvelos

saTaveSi putinTan daaxloebuli

oligarqi zis. dasavleTma

ukve yvelaferi gaigo, saTanadod

Seafasa viTareba, amitom Semodgomaze

saqarTveloSi dagegmili

arCevnebi ise aRar Caivlis,

rogorc aqamde iyo. am arCevnebze

bevri ramea damokidebuli.

maT Soris isic, Tu rogori iqneba

saqarTvelos sagareo kursi.

„qarTuli ocnebis” xelisuflebaSi

darCena niSnavs imas, rom

saqarTvelo ruseTis sakuTreba

gaxdeba. aseT SemTxvevaSi teritoriebis

20% ki ar iqneba okupirebuli,

aramed mTeli teritoria

ruseTi gaxdeba. arada,

Cveni ocneba ruseTSi dabruneba

ar yofila. mas Semdeg, rac damoukidebloba

movipoveT, imisTvis

vibrZviT, dasavleTis sruluflebiani

nawili rogor gavxdeT.

mgonia, rom Sors aRar aris

is dro, roca saqarTvelosTvis

natos kari gaiReba.

_ mag natos karis gaRebaze

didi xania, vocnebobT, magram am

karis gaRebas saSveli ar daad-

ga.

_ axla sxvanairad aris saqme.

Cveni strategiuli partniorebi

acxadeben, rom dadga dro, roca

saqarTvelo unda gaxdes natos

wevri. amasTan dakavSirebiT gasul

kviras gancxadeba kongresmenma

adam kinzingerma gaakeTa,

romelic saqarTvelos namdvili

megobaria. natos wevrebi Tu

gavxdiT, Cveni usafrTxoeba srulad

iqneba daculi. ruseTi erT

nabijsac veRar gadmodgams Cvenken.

axali teritoriebis mitaceba

ki ara, okupirebuli afxaze-

Tisa da cxinvalis regionis dabrunebac

mouwevT. dasavluri mimarTulebiT

Tu gavagrZelebT

siaruls, Cvens qveyanas namdvilad

Rirseuli momavali eqneba.

_ natos wevroba aseTi ioli

ar iqneba. imisTvis, rom natos

wevrebi gavxdeT, aq demokrati-

ulad unda Catardes arCevnebi.

es erT-erTi winapirobaa ali-

ansSi mosaxvedrad.

_ arCevnebis demokratiulad

Catareba Zalian mniSvnelovania.

vfiqrob, rom ivaniSvilis partia

veRar gariskavs arCevnebis

gayalbebas.

_ ratom ver gariskavs? maT-

Tvis xom sasicocxlod aucilebelia

Zalauflebis SenarCune-

ba.

_ „qarTul ocnebaSi” SesaniSnavad

ician, rom arCevnebi Tu

gayalbda, dasavleli partniorebi

saparlamento arCevnebis Sedegebs

ar aRiareben. amaze metyvelebs

is werilebic, romelic

uwyvet nakadad modis evropidan

da amerikidan. arc amerikis elCi

dadis tyuilad saqarTvelos xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebTan.

es qalbatoni xan mTavar prokurorTan

midis, xan _ giorgi gaxariasTan.

zogjer biZina ivaniSvilsac

stumrobs xolme. axla Tu

vinmes hgonia, rom elCi da xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi Wiqa

28 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


Cveulebrivi moqalaqe gaxdeba~

yavasa da peplebze saubroben,

Zalian cdebian. amerikelebi pirdapir

eubnebian ivaniSvils, Tu

ra elodeba arCevnebis gayalbebis

SemTxvevaSi. amerikelma kongresmenebma

da senatorebma saqarTveloze

dapatronebul rus

oligarqs gasagebi eniT auxsnes,

rom vaSingtons SeuZlia is erT

Cveulebriv adamianad aqcios.

amerikas aseT Temebze xumroba

rom ar uyvars, es moldovel

miliarder ploxotniukisTvis

sanqciebis dawesebiTac gamoCnda.

is adamiani qveynidan gaiqca. mas-

Tan SedarebiT ivaniSvili ufro

mZime mdgomareobaSia.

_ ufro mZime mdgomareobaSi

ratom aris?

_ imitom, rom is versad

gaiqceva.

_ ruseTSi ver ipovis TavS-

esafars?

_ ruseTsac ver Seafarebs

Tavs. iq mtrebi hyavs, Tavis

droze Zalian bevri xalxi gadaagdo

da amaze mas aucleblad

mosTxoven pasuxs. arCevnebs Tu

gaayalbebs, veRarc saqarTvelo-

Si gaCerdeba. ara mgonia, rom

„qarTuli ocnebis” an misi romelime

wevris gamo rusma oligarqma

sakuTari finansebi da Tavi

gawiros. oligarqma kargad icis,

rom mis miliardebs safrTxe

emuqreba. vaSingtonma Cvens qveyanas

ukve daado sanqciebi da im

daxmarebis 15% mogvaklo, romelic

saqarTveloSi modioda.

aseTi rame eduard SevardnaZis

mmarTvelobis drosac ki ar momxdara.

sityvieri gafrTxilebidan

amerika ukve qmediT nabijebze

gadavida. vaSingtoni yvela

Tavisi qmedebiT da gancxadebiT

„qarTul ocnebas” eubneba, rom

maT xelisufleba unda gadaabaron.

ar gadaabareben da moxvdebaT.

yvelaze metad moxvdeba rus

oligarqs. kidev erTxel vimeoreb,

rom ivaniSvili arc „ocnebis”

wevrebisa da arc „ocnebis”

amomrCevlis gamo ar Seuqmnis

Tavis finansebs safrTxes. mas

saqarTvelos mosaxleoba erT

TeTradac ki ar uRirs.

_ ivaniSvili „ocnebis” gadarCenas

sakuTari qonebis gadar-

Cenas amjobinebs, magram isic

unda aRiniSnos, rom arc meocnebeebi

gadahyvebian rus oli-

garqs. mas Tu rame problemebi

Seeqmneba, maSinve miatoveben.

_ mis garSemo sul medroveebi

arian Semokrebili. dainaxaven

Tu ara, rom ivaniSvili marcxdeba

arCevnebSi, pirvelebi Caartyamen

zurgSi danas „qarTuli ocnebis”

liders. aseTi ambebi araerTxel

gvinaxavs qarTul politikaSi.

ivaniSvili maTgan ganwirulia

da Cvenc axali sazrunavi

gagviCndeba. arasamTavroboebma

da sazogadoebam yvelaferi unda

gavakeToT, rom „qarTuli ocnebis”

navidan gadmomxtari adamianebi

opoziciam ar Seiwovos.

erTi da igive wreze siaruli

unda davamTavroT.

_ amis gakeTeba martivi ar

iqneba, es adamianebi iseTi

`natos wevrebi Tu gavxdiT, Cveni usafrTxoeba srulad iqneba daculi.

ruseTi erT nabijsac veRar gadmodgams Cvenken. axali teritoriebis

mitaceba ki ara, okupirebuli afxazeTisa da cxinvalis regionis dabrunebac

mouwevT. dasavluri mimarTulebiT Tu gavagrZelebT siaruls, Cvens qveyanas

namdvilad Rirseuli momavali eqneba~

gamocdilebi arian erTi navidan

meoreSi gadaxtomaSi, rom maT-

Tan gamklaveba Zalian rTuli

iqneba, Tu SeuZlebeli ara.

_ Zalian rTuli iqneba, magram

es aucileblad unda gavakeToT.

rodemde unda trialebdes es

saxeebi qarTul politikaSi?

maTi atana ukve SeuZlebelia.

_ amis gakeTebas rogor

apirebT?

_ medroveebi politikur

procesebs unda CamovaSoroT.

sxvanairad ver gavwmendT politikur

vels. me kargad maxsovs,

xelisuflebaSi mosvlamde rogor

gaiZaxoda „qarTuli ocneba”,

rom murusiZe cudi iyo. mas Semdeg,

rac „ocneba” movida xelisuflebaSi,

cudi murusiZe uc-

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

bad kai tipi gaxda da samudamod

daniSnes mosamarTled. yvelam

kargad viciT, vin arian dRes

„qarTul ocnebaSi”. viciT, vis

akritikebs opozicia, es adamianebi

politikaSi aRar unda darCnen.

da aRaravin unda gviTxras,

rom es maSin iyvnen cudebi,

Torem axla Zalian kargebi ariano.

am cudma adamianebma ki keTili

inebon da wavidnen saxlSi.

Tu CaTvlian, rom usamarTlod

moeqcnen, mimarTon sasamarTlos.

oRond im sasamarTlos,

romelic politikuri dakveTebisgan

Tavisufali iqneba. partiidan

partiaSi gadaxtoma unda

dasruldes. es demokratiasac

azaralebs da qveynis ganviTarebasac

uSlis xels. aseTi xalxis

`2012 wlidan moyolebuli vambobT, rom

saqarTvelos marTavs rusi oligarqi. rusma

oligarqma erTi wlis winaT premierad

ruseTis moqalaqe gaxaria dagvisva. aqamde

dasavleTSi amis ar sjerodaT. axla mTeli

evropa da amerika imaze saubrobs, rom

saqarTvelos rusi oligarqi marTavs.

amerikeli kongresmenebi da senatorebi

pirdapir weren dokumentebSi, rom

saqarTvelos saTaveSi putinTan daaxloebuli

oligarqi zis. dasavleTma ukve yvelaferi

gaigo, saTanadod Seafasa viTareba, amitom

Semodgomaze saqarTveloSi dagegmili arCevnebi

ise aRar Caivlis, rogorc aqamde iyo~

Sewovas kargi rom araferi moaqvs,

amaze dRes arsebuli vi-

Tarebac metyvelebs. imis magivrad,

rom qveyana ganviTarebuliyo

da win wavsuliyaviT, ukan,

90-ian wlebSi davbrundiT. im periodisgan

dRevandeloba mxolod

imiT gansxvavdeba, rom axla

deni da gazi gvaqvs. danarCeni

yvelaferi isea, rogorc maSin.

adamianebs quCaSi gasvlis eSiniaT.

dRe ise ar gava, rom vinme ar

Cacxrilon, vinme ar awamon, vinme

ar daayaCaRon, vinme ar gaaupatiuron.

policielebis mokvlasac

ar eridebian. mere vnaxulobT,

rom adgeba Cveni prezidenti

da mkvlelebsa da pedofilebs

Seiwyalebs.

_ samagierod uars ityvis

politpatimris Sewyalebaze. man

gviTxra, rom giorgi ruruas ar

Seiwyalebs.

_ ar Seiwyalebs imitom, rom

biZina ivaniSvilisgan aseTi davaleba

ar aqvs miRebuli. Tavad es

qali arafers rom ar wyvets,

bavSvebmac ki ician. qveyanaSi amdeni

problemaa da prezidenti

raRac antikvarebs dasdevs. esec

ar ikmara da mTeli saqarTvelo

moiara. Tuki sadme SeiZleboda

dasveneba, daisvena. Tan iqiT dagvado

vali _ imitom davdivar,

Sida turizmi unda ganvaviTaroo.

igi araadekvaturia. is oligarqs

prezidentad imitom ar

dauniSnavs, rom man raRac politikuri

gadawyvetilebebi miiRos,

is imitom dainiSna am postze,

rom kargi mona iyos. massa da

ivaniSvils Soris aseTi SeTanxmeba

arsebobs. vfiqrob, rom salome

zurabiSvils giorgi ruruas

Sewyaleba mainc mouwevs. ufro

zusti oqneba Tu vityvi, rom

am gadawyvetilebas ivaniSvils

miaRebineben. Tavis droze irakli

oqruaSvilisa da gigi ugulavas

Sewyalebazec uars ambobdnen,

magram dasavleTidan mkacri

gafrTxileba miiRes. dasavleli

partniorebis TandaswrebiT gaformda

SeTanxmeba, rom politpatimrebi

cixes datovebdnen,

maT Soris ruruas gvaric iyo

naxsenebi. is isev cixeSi rCeba.

ivaniSvilma dasavleTi maSinac

gadaagdo, roca misma monebma sakonstitucio

cvlileba Caagdes,

romlis miRebis SemTxvevaSi saqarTveloSi

arCevnebi srulad

proporciuli wesiT Catardeboda.

am gadagdebebis gamo mas

mwared moxvdeba cxvirSi, saku-

Tar tyavze kidev igrZnobs, Tu

rogor reagirebs dasavleTi

gadagdebaze. erTi Zalian mniSvnelovani

ambavi minda vuTxra

„qronika+”-s: amerikaSi saqarTvelos

elC daviT baqraZes aravin

aRar elaparakeba. Cven gvyavs

nacnobebi amerikaSi, romlebsac

kongresTan da senatTan aqvT

Sexeba. isini gviyvebian, Tu rogor

dadis daviT baqraZe 5 lobistTan

erTad, cdilobs, vinmes

daelaparakos, magram arc kongresmenebi

elaparakebian da arc

_ senatorebi.

_ ratom?

_ ratom unda daelaparakon?

jer iyo da rusma oligarqma

anakliis portis mSenebloba gaa-

Cera, mere iyo da amerikul kompania

„fronteras” Seuqmnes

problemebi. vaSingtonisTvis

„frontera” Zalian mniSvnelovani

kompania. am kompaniis wyalobiT

amerikelebma Sansi mogvces,

rom energodamoukidebloba

mogvepovebina. „qarTulma ocnebam”

ki „fronteras” uCivla da

kompanias dRemde aSantaJeben.

aseTi rame rom xdeba, imitomac

ar elaparakebian amerikelebi

elC daviT baqraZes. naTeli da

aSkaraa, rom vaSingtoni rus oligarqTan

saubars aRar apirebs.

amerikelebs ukve miRebuli aqvT

gadawyvetileba _ biZina ivaniSvils

mouwevs pasuxisgeba.

_ Cven erTi Tvis winaTac vi-

saubreT imaze, rom ivaniSvili

SeiZleba, „ocnebis” pirveli

nomeri gaxdes. erTi periodi am

Temaze saubari Sewyda, axla isev

alaparakdnen. jer saboloo

gadawyvetileba araa, magram

„ocnebis” kuluarebSi amboben,

rom pirveli nomeri is iqneba,

meore _ gaxaria.

_ amaze imas getyviT, rac ma-

Sin gipasuxeT. ivaniSvilis siaSi

pirvel nomrad Casma niSnavs imas,

rom is eZebs politikur garantiebs.

is cdilobs moipovos imuniteti,

raTa xelSeuxebeli iyo.

_ sanqciebisgan es imuniteti

ver daicavs.

_ veranairad. saqarTveloSi

imunitetis gamo SeiZleba xeli

ar axlon, magram amerikelebi mas

Cveulebriv adamianad aqceven.

_ ivaniSvili Raribi deputatis

rolSi raRac ver warmomid-

genia.

_ SeuZlebeli araferia. amerikelebs

sxva miliarderebic uqceviaT

Cveulebriv adamianebad

da arc ivaniSvils daindoben.

vaSingtoni ver itans, roca ra-

Racaze SeTanxmebas miaRweven da

mere gadaagdeben. ivaniSvils sakuTar

tyavze gamoacdevineben

imasac, Tu rogor reagirebs vaSingtoni

amerikuli biznesis Seviwroebaze.

29


rogor Zabavs kremli saqarTveloSi

dedamiwaze danaSauli mas Sem-

giorgi abaSiZe

deg arsebobs, rac adamiani gaCnda

da kriminaluri midrekilebe-

bisgan, albaT, verasodes gavTavisufldebiT. magram, amis mi-

uxedavad, bolo dros Cvens qveyanaSi „Savi samyaro” zomaze

metad gaaqtiurda. ra aris amis mizezi? _ zogi fiqrobs, rom

xelisuflebas quCasTan erTgvari xelSekruleba aqvs dade-

buli da kriminalic amitom momZlavrda.

aseve arsebobs mosazreba, rom

danaSaulis gazrda Zalovani uwyebebis

araprofesionalizmis

pirdapirproporciulia. sxvaTa

Soris, mTavrobis erT-erT bolo

sxdomaze amaze miniSneba premierma

gaxariamac gaakeTa da, praqtikulad,

aRiara, rom Sss-s reforma

aucilebelia.

orive zemoxsenebul versias

arsebobis ufleba aqvs, miT umetes,

rom am versiebis sicocxlisunarianobisTvis

noyieri niadagic

arsebobs. Tumca aris kidev

erTi garemoeba, riTac SesaZloa,

kriminalis momZlavreba aixsnas.

kerZod, saubaria imaze, rom

qveyanaSi kriminaluri qaosis Seqmna

organizebulad xdeba da

yvelafer amas Cvendami mtrulad

ganwyobili romelime saxelmwifo

udgas saTaveSi. Tu gaviTvaliswinebT,

rom saqarTvelos

yvelaze metad ruseTi emtereba,

cxadia, advilad mivxvdebiT, rom

RvTismSoblis wilxvedr qveyana-

Si situaciis daZabva swored

kremls SeiZleba awyobdes.

sxvaTa Soris, imas, rom es versia

utopiuri araa, „qronika+~-s

merab rafavac udasturebs, romelic

erovnuli xelisuflebis

dros Ss ministris pirveli moadgile

iyo da aseve sasjelaRsrulebis

uwyebasac kurirebda.

zogadad, Cvens respondents

kriminalTan brZolis didi gamocdileba

aqvs da, Sesabamisad,

misi TiToeuli sityva sayuradReboa,

anu merab rafava bolo

drois „kriminalur jojoxeTze”

saubrisas gasuli saukunis 90-

iani wlebis dasawyiss, e. i., im periods

ixsenebs, roca qveynis

saTaveSi erovnuli xelisufleba

iyo da, praqtikulad, erTmniSvnelovnad

ambobs, rom kremli

maSin zviad gamsaxurdias mTavrobis

winaaRmdeg kriminalebis mobilizebas

axdenda. amis dasturad

batoni rafava operatiul informaciebs

iSveliebs...

imarTeba Tu ara qarTuli

kriminali CrdiloeTidan? _

„qronika+~ gTavazobT intervius

Ss ministris yofil pirvel

moadgile merab rafavasTan:

_ batono merab, bolo dros

mudmivad kriminalur ambebze

vsaubrobT. Tqven, rogorc pro-

fesionali „Cekisti”, ras

fiqrobT, ra xdeba _ kriminalma

realurad moimata Tu, ubral-

od, gaSuqeba gaizarda?

_ CemTvis amaze saubari Znelia.

_ ratom?

_ axlandel da gasul wlebSi

Sss-s mier aRricxuli da registrirebuli

danaSaulebebis monacemebi

ar maqvs, Tumca imis

mixedviT, rac Cans da Suqdeba,

SeiZleba iTqvas, rom danaSaulma

imata. sxvaTa Soris, gamorCeuli

sisatikiT Cadenili danaSaulebebi

gaizarda, rac gansakuTrebiT

samwuxaroa.

_ obieqturad rom vim-

sjeloT, kriminali yovelTvis

iyo da iqneba kidec, magram es

gansakuTrebuli sisastike socialuri

problemebiT unda avx-

snaT, daZabuli politikuri

foniT Tu sxva ramiT?

_ bevri faqtori arsebobs,

Tumca mgonia, rom pandemiis gamo

bevrma socialurma problemam

iCina Tavi. ai, magaliTad, adamianebs

samsaxuri ar aqvT.

_ umuSevroba Cvens qveyanaSi

aqamdec problema iyo, Tumca

yoveldRe ubedureba namdvilad

ar xdeboda.

_ diax, yvela danaSauls finansur

problemas ver davukav-

SirebT. erT-erTi mizezi, albaT,

isicaa, rom adamianebi Caketilebi

arian.

_ ise, Tu davakvirdebiT, dan-

àxlandel da gasul wlebSi Sss-s mier

aRricxuli da registrirebuli

danaSaulebebis monacemebi ar maqvs, Tumca imis

mixedviT, rac Cans da Suqdeba, SeiZleba iTqvas,

rom danaSaulma imata. sxvaTa Soris,

gamorCeuli sisatikiT Cadenili danaSaulebebi

gaizarda, rac gansakuTrebiT samwuxaroa~

merab rafava:

`ruseTSi saidumlo

struqtura Seiqmna,

romelsac

saqarTveloSi

xelisuflebis

damxoba evaleboda!~

aSaulis umetesobaSi axal-

gazrdebi figurireben. batono

merab, organoebSi muSaobis

udidesi gamocdileba gaqvT da

ras fiqrobT, danaSauli ratom

gaaxalgazrdavda? es imiT xom

ar aixsneba, rom qveyanaSi ga-

naTlebis sistema, praqtikulad,

moSlilia? sxvaTa Soris, komu-

nistebis dros, rogorc maxsovs,

e. w. bavSvTa oTaxebi arsebobda,

ara?

_ diax, ase iyo.

_ anu maSin mozardebsa da

axalgazrdebs eSinodaT, rom Tu

rames daaSavebdnen, aucileblad

daisjebodnen, axla ki, erTgvar-

ad, dausjelobis sindromia?

_ samwuxarod, axalgazrdebSi

dausjelobis sindromi namdvilad

arsebobs.

_ im dros, roca Zalovan uw-

yebaSi muSaobdiT, yvelafer amas

rogor aregulirebdiT da

umklavdebodiT, batono merab?

_ maSin ufro meti kontroli

arsebobda.

_ dRes ra gviSlis xels, rom

kontroli gamkacrdes?

_ sakiTxs Tu ase mivudgebiT,

maSin ise aRiqvamen, rom adamianis

uflebebi irRveva, magram praqtika

gviCvenebs, rom arasruwlovnebis

mimarT Sss-m meti kontroli

unda daawesos.

is samsaxurebi, romlebic,

Tavis droze, am kuTxiT muSaobdnen,

aRar arsebobs. aseve aRar

arsebobs specialuri dawesebulebebi,

sadac e. w. Znelad aRsazrdeli

axalgazrdebi specialur

pirobebSi cxovrobdnen.

erTi sityviT, yvelaferi, rac

axla qveyanaSi xdeba, dausjelobis

sindroms ukavSirdeba.

_ dausjelobis sindromi xe-

lisuflebis wisqvilze asxams

wyals Tu procesebi TviTdinebazea

miSvebuli da Zalo-

vani uwyebebi procesebs veRar

marTaven?

_ rasac axla getyviT, ar vici,

sworad gamigebT Tu ara.

_ TqviT, batono merab da ise

gagigebT, rogorc ityviT.

_ yvelaferi zedmetad

aJitirebuli, politizebuli da

samarTaldamcveli organoebis

nebismieri moqmedeba zedmetad

kontrolqveSaa moqceuli!

_ anu?

_ samarTaldamcveli struqturebi

dRes iseT situaciaSi

imyofebian, rom xSirad policielma

garkveul viTarebas Sei-

Zleba, Tavi aaridos.

_ danaSaulze reagireba xom

policielis upirvelesi mova-

leobaa da garkveul viTarebas

Tavi ratom unda aaridos?

_ garkveul viTarebas policielma

Tavi SeiZleba, imitom

aaridos, rom misi moqmedeba zedmetad

aJitirebuli gaxdeba.

mokled, imis Tqma minda, rom

sxvadasxva struqtura samarTaldamcvel

organoebs abulingebs.

_ „sxvadasxva struqturaSi”

ras gulisxmobT, batono merab?

_ arasamTavrobo organizaciebsa

Tu adamianis uflebaTa damcvelebs.

erTi sityviT, zedmeti

mosdiT da is, rac xdeba, SeiZleba,

amanac gamoiwvia!

_ am msjelobaSi logika, cxa-

dia, aris, magram Tu bolo or

gaxmaurebul _ SaqaraSvilisa da

baCaliaSvilis qeiss gavixsenebT,

Zalovnebis bulingze saubari

zedmeti iqneba. anu yvelafers

Tavi rom davaneboT, orive

SemTxvevaSi gamoZiebam mtkice-

bulebebis moZieba, lamis, erTi

Tvis Semdeg daiwyo da es xom,

minimum, araprofesionalizmia?

_ ki batono, garkveuli araprofesionalizmicaa,

Tumca

Zalovnebs imis SiSi da TavSekavebac

aqvT, rom joxi zedmetad ar

gadaRunon.

yvelafers politikur Seferilobas

aZleven, rac ar SeiZleba,

radgan es, garkveulwilad,

30

30 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

cudi Sedegis momtania!

_ ise, batono merab, iseT idu-

mal gardacvalebasTan, rogor-

ic 23 wlis programistis saqmea,

im dros, roca aqtiur samZebro

saqmianobas eweodiT, Sexeba gqo-

niaT?

_ ra Tqma unda, aseTi Zalian

bevri SemTxveva yofila.

saerTod, cudia, roca adamiani

sicocxles TviTmkvlelobiT

asrulebs.

_ Tu amas konkretul SemTx-

vevaze ambobT, jer ar viciT,

Tamarma Tavi moikla, mokles Tu

TviTmkvlelobamde miiyvanes.

_ diax, magram im informaciebis

mixedviT, rasac mediiT vecnobi,

samwuxarod, garkveuli

problemebi hqonda.

_ batono merab, mapatieT, magram

am msjelobaSi ver gamo-

gyvebiT, miT umetes, rom vin, vin

da yvelaze metad Tqven unda

xvdebodeT, rom adamiani Tavis

mosaklavad 100 kilometrs ar

gaivlida... ise, saqmes Tqven rom

iZiebdeT, pirvelad ras gaa-

keTebdiT?

_ upirvelesad, adamianis fsiqologiur

mdgomareobas gamovikvlevdi.

saerTod, roca arCeven,

adamianma Tavi ratom moikla da

ai, me amas an imas ar vizamdio,

erTi faqtoria gasaTvaliswinebeli.

_ kerZod?

_ roca adamiani TviTmkvlelobamde

midis, ise ar fiqrobs da

msjelobs, rogorc, ase vTqvaT,

normaluri adamiani, anu Tu adamians

TviTmkvleloba aqvs gadawyvetili

da „aWrilia”, Sesabamisad,

misi nabijebis gaTvla Znelia.

zogadad, msjeloba imiT unda

daviwyoT, pirovneba TviTmkvlelobamde

ram miiyvana, miT umetes,

rom fsiqologiur zewolas

yvela erTnairad ver uZlebs...

_ ra Tqma unda, asea, magram

igive „baCaliaSvilis saqmeSi”

specsamsaxurebis rolsa da

kvals gamoricxavT?

_ ara, magram Tu es gogona

mokles, maSin yvelaferi ufro

martivad iqneboda.

_ rogor?

_ magaliTad, katastrofis imitacias

gaakeTebdnen.

_ sxvaTa Soris, eqspertTa

nawili ar gamoricxavs, rom Tamaris

TviTmkvlelobac, Tu es da-

dasturda, inscenireba iyos...

_ SeiZleba, magram Tu mkvlelobaze

vsaubrobT, maSin borotmoqmedi

gvams an damarxavda, an

manqanas sruliad sxva adgilas

gaaCerebda, anu ise moiqceoda,

rom gardacvlilis kvalisTvis

veravis miegno.

_ batono merab, is, rom qvey-

anaSi daZabuli kriminogenuri

viTareba iyos, ruseTis inter-

esSi xom ar Sedis?

_ ra Tqma unda, yvela arake-

Tilad ganwyobil saxelmwifos

awyobs, rom CvenTan stabiluroba

ar iyos. Sesabamisad, arsebobis

ufleba am versiasac aqvs.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


kriminogenur viTarebas?

`sxvaTa Soris, warsulSi, roca erovnul

xelisuflebas ruseTis imperia da ruseTis

imperialisturi Zalebi upirispirdebodnen,

swored maT interesSi iyo, rom saqarTveloSi

kriminogenuri viTareba daZabuliyo. amaze

mxolod zusti informacia ki ar gvqonda,

aramed faqtebic arsebobda, rom cixe-

koloniebSi buntebi moawyves, anu miviReT

informacia, rom saqarTvelos yvela cixe-

koloniaSi bunti erTdroulad unda

dawyebuliyo~

sxvaTa Soris, warsulSi, roca

erovnul xelisuflebas ruseTis

imperia da ruseTis imperialisturi

Zalebi upirispirdebodnen,

swored maT interesSi iyo, rom

saqarTveloSi kriminogenuri vi-

Tareba daZabuliyo. amaze mxolod

zusti informacia ki ar gvqonda,

aramed faqtebic arsebobda,

rom cixe-koloniebSi buntebi

moawyves, anu miviReT informacia,

rom saqarTvelos yvela cixe-koloniaSi

bunti erTdroulad

unda dawyebuliyo. marTalia,

qveynis masStabiT es aRvkveTeT,

`Tbilisis nomer pirvel sagamoZiebo

izolatorSi 1430 patimari iyo. undodaT,

rom cixis kari gaetexaT da yvela patimari

gareT gamosuliyo. maT gareT garkveuli

politikuri Zalebi elodnen.

marTalia, bunti daiwyo, magram Sss-m buntis

CaxSoba moaxerxa. erTi sityviT, rusuli

imperialisturi Zalebi situaciis arevas

yvela xerxiT cdilobdnen, magram cixeSi

bunti ar gamouvidaT, Tumca Semdeg,

samwuxarod, isev rusuli iaraRiTa da isev

kriminalis gamoyenebiT, saqarTveloSi

saxelmwifo gadatrialeba mainc moxda, rasac

jaWvuri reacqia mohyva~

magram Tbilisis pirvel izolatorSi

amis gakeTeba mainc Se-

Zles. Semdeg, roca yvelaferi

SeviswavleT, gamoZiebiT dadginda,

rom bunti swored im Zalebma

wamoiwyes, romlebmac mogvianebiT

saqarTveloSi bunti ganaxorcieles!

_ e. i., sazogadoebis gancda,

rom raRacnairad Savbnel 90-

ianebSi vbrundebiT, mTlad

ararealisturi araa, batono

merab?

_ cxadia, ar aris da SeiZleba,

es versiac ganvixiloT, anu sul

araa gamoricxuli, rom qveyanaSi

daZabulobis Seqmnas gare Zalebi

cdilobdnen.

_ am versias gavyveT da davakonkretoT,

kriminaluri vi-

Tarebis daZabviT gare Zalebi ra

mogebasa da xeirs naxaven?

_ mogexsenebaT, Semodgomaze

saqarTveloSi arCevnebia.

_ mere?

_ albaT, viRacebi cdiloben,

rom saqarTveloSi Wreli situacia

iyos.

_ maSasadame, kriminogenuri

viTarebis daZabvas moaxloebul

arCevnebs ukavSirebT?

_ mTlad ase araa, magram erTerTi

versia, SeZleba, esec iyos.

samwuxarod, saqarTvelos Signi-

Tac arian Zalebi, romlebsac

kriminalis momateba uxariaT.

_ batono merab, ambobT,

erovnul xelisuflebas infor-

macia hqonda, rom ruseTi

saqarTvelos cixe-koloniebSi

bunts gegmavdao. marTalia,

umetes adgilas es bunti aRkve-

TeT, magram Tbilisis izola-

torSi patimrebi mainc ajanyd-

nen. mokled, ratom ver SeZeliT,

rom es Tundac lokaluri sa-

frTxe Tavidan agecilebinaT?

_ bunti aRvkveTeT, anu zustad

maxsovs, Tbilisis nomer

pirvel sagamoZiebo izolator-

Si 1430 patimari iyo. undodaT,

rom cixis kari gaetexaT da yvela

patimari gareT gamosuliyo.

maT gareT garkveuli politikuri

Zalebi elodnen. marTalia,

bunti daiwyo, magram Sss-m

buntis CaxSoba moaxerxa. erTi

sityviT, rusuli imperialisturi

Zalebi situaciis arevas

yvela xerxiT cdilobdnen, magram

cixeSi bunti ar gamouvidaT,

Tumca Semdeg, samwuxarod, isev

rusuli iaraRiTa da isev kriminalis

gamoyenebiT, saqarTvelo-

Si saxelmwifo gadatrialeba

mainc moxda, rasac jaWvuri reacqia

mohyva.

_ „jaWvur reaqciaSi” ras

gulisxmobT?

_ qveyanaSi samarTlianobis

principi dRemde dakargulia!

_ mec swored amis kiTxva min-

doda, anu is, rom uamravi saqme

saerTod gamouZiebelia an gamo-

Ziebulia, magram zereled, ad-

amianebSi erTgvar daucvelobasa

da usamarTlobas aCens. hoda,

kriminalis gazrdis erT-erTi

faqtori esec xom araa?

_ ra Tqma unda. Tu samarTlebrivi

saxelmwifoa, maSin samarTlianobis

aRdgena im umZimesi

danaSaulis gamoZiebiT unda

daiwyos.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ 1991-92 wlebis saxelmwifo

gadatrialebas, romelic finansurad

uzrunvelyo da daaorganiza

ruseTma. sxvaTa Soris, arsebobda

aseTi pirovneba _ genadi

burbulisi, romelmac Tavis

memuarebSi Zalian saintereso

ram dawera.

_ kerZod?

_ burbulisis TqmiT, Tavis

droze, ruseTSi saidumlo struqtura

Seiqmna, romelic 50 milioniT

dafinansda. am struqturas

saqarTveloSi xelisuflebis

damxoba evaleboda.

_ am burbulisis memuarebi

sandoa?

_ diax, sandoa.

_ ratom?

_ am saidumlo uwyebas Tavad

xelmZRvanelobda. amas garda,

sxva faqtebic arsebobs.

_ saxeldobr?

_ rusi samxedroebi da oficrebi,

romlebic ukve gardacvlilni

arian, Tavad ambobdnen,

rom saqarTveloSi mxolod put-

Cistebs ki ara, kriminalebsac

aorganizebdnen, Tumca amis gamo

pasuxi aravis ugia.

_ batono merab, Tqveni informaciiT,

ruseTSi es saidum-

lo instituti axlac arsebobs?

_ amas informacia rad unda?

_ aba, ra unda?

_ SegviZlia, praqtikiT vimsjeloT,

anu ruseTma maSin saidumlo

instituti Seqmna, romlisTvisac

50 milioni gamoyo da

romlis Sesaxebac genadi burbulisi

saubrobda. ratom ar Sei-

Zleba, rom analogiuri uwyeba

axlac arsebobdes?! ra Tqma unda,

arseboben garkveuli uwyebebi da

pirovnebebic, romlebic saqar-

TveloSi viTarebis daZabvas Seecdebian,

miT umetes, im fonze,

rom saqarTvelos prodasavluri

kursi aqvs arCeuli. ruseTs ki ar

unda, mis yuris Ziras iseTi ganviTrebuli

saxelmwifo arsebobdes,

romelic ruseTis mosaxleobisTvis

misabiZi gaxdeba.

_ ruseTs Tavisi strategia

aqvs, magram Cveni Cveni gziT

unda viaroT, Tumca, samwuxar-

od, amis saSualebas mxolod

Cven ki ara, sxva mezoblebsac ar

aZlevs.

_ saerTod, ruseTis imperialisturi

cxovrebis kredoa, rom

masze ukeTesad aravin icxovros.

mokled, yovelive aqedan gamomdinare,

SegviZlia, vTqvaT, ruse-

Tidan garkveuli Tanxebi ixarjeba,

aq ki kuratorebi hyavs, romlebic

yvelafer amas aorganizeben!

31

mokled, vin vis Seekvreba

axal parlamentSi da ratom miiCnevs,

rom saintereso proces-

ebi ufro 31 oqtombris Semdeg

daiwyeba? _ yvelafer amis Sesax-

eb Cveni gamocema „Tavisufali

saqarTvelos” lider kaxa kuka-

vas esaubra:

_ batono kaxa, winasaarCevno

kampania, praqtikulad, gaxur-

da...

_ mTlad aqtiur fazaSi araa,

magram daiwyo.

_ hoda, „Tavisufali saqar-

Tvelo” ras da rogor apirebs?

_ maJoritarebis SerCeva daviwyeT

da naxevar saarCevno olqebSi

gadawyvetileba miRebuli

gvaqvs, meore naxevarSi ki kandidatebTan

konsultaciebi daskvniT

etapzea da vimedovneb, agvistos

bolos am process mTlianad

davasrulebT.

_ Tqveni da gogi wulaias

garda maJoritarobis am kandi-

datebSi cnobili saxeebi arian?

_ saerTod, cnobil adamianebze

aqcents naklebad vakeTebT,

amitom maJoritarobis kandidatebi

„Tavisufali saqarTvelos”

aqtividan da aseve erovnuli

moZraobis Zveli saxeebidan

iqnebian, anu mwerlebi, mxatvrebi

Tu ragbistebi ar gveyolebian.

_ raki maJoritarebad erovnuli

moZraobis warmomadgen-

lebs daasaxelebT, e. i., unda

vivaraudoT, rom saarCevnod

„Tavisufali saqarTvelo” amom-

rCevlis erovnul emociebze

iTamaSebs?

_ diax, Cveni programis ori

ZiriTadi mimarTulebidan erTerTi

namdvilad erovnuli Tema

iqneba.

_ „erovnul TemaSi” mainc, ra

igulisxmeba?

_ amas didi istoria aqvs.

_ cxadia, magram ufro

konkretulad?

_ mas Semdeg, rac erovnuli

mTavroba daamxes, saqarTveloSi,

realurad, koloniuri administraciaa.

amitom migvaCnia, rom

saxelmwifo Tavis erovnul Zirebs

unda daubrundes. garda amisa,

migrantebis nakadic unda SeizRudos

da ucxoelebze miwis

gayidvac. Cvens programaSi aseve

warmodgenili iqneba, Tu rogor

unda davicvaT ojaxuri tradiciebi

da SevakavoT religiuri eqspansia,

Tumca mTavar aqcents

mainc ekonomikis erovnulobaze

gavakeTebT, _ Cveni ekonomika

mTlianad importzea damokidebuli.

importi unda Semcirdes

da adgilobriv warmoebas mxari

unda davuWiroT.

32


`Tu òcneba~ 40%-Si `moyomardeba~, maSin

Zlieri opoziciuri partiebi

giorgi abaSiZe

darwmunebuli arian, rom Semodgomaze

saqarTveloSi xelisu-

fleba Seicvleba. metic: iseTi politikuri Zalebic ki,

romelTa reitingic Zalian dabalia, gamarjvebisTvis, anu

xelisuflebis xelSi asaRebad emzadebian. Tumca „Tavisufa-

li saqarTvelos” lideri, kaxa kukava, „qronika+”-sTan ambobs,

rom oqtomberSi yvela miwaze daeSveba da iqidan gamomdinare,

rom alternativa ar arsebobs, „ocneba” parlamentSi, mini-

mum, 80-mandatian umravlesobasac Seqmnis.

_ yvelaferi es gasagebia, ma-

gram, ratomRac, vfiqrobdi,

rom Tqveni erT-erTi mTavari

saarCevno dapireba zviad gam-

saxurdias dRemde burusiT

moculi gardacvalebis gamo-

Zieba iqneboda...

_ Cvens programaSi es weria,

ufro sworad, konkretulad

erTis ki ara, yvela gaxmaurebuli

saqmis gamoZiebas SevecdebiT.

zogadad, roca samarTlebriv

reformaze vsaubrobT, aqcenti

unda gavakeToT erT romelime

saqmeze ki ara, samarTlian da miukerZoebul

gamoZiebaze, riTac

yvela gaxmaurebul saqmes daesmeva

wertili. mxolod zviadis ki

ara, uamravi sxva saqmec gvaqvs,

romelic aTeuli welia, gr-

Zeldeba. yvelaferi es ki imaze

miuTiTebs, rom sistema Rrma

krizisSia. metic: qarTuli saxelmwifo

institutebi, Tavisi

arsiT, Zirmompalia. am mxriv ki

liderobs prokuratura. yvelafer

amis Sesacvlelad mTeli

sagamoZiebo struqturis reformaa

saWiro!

_ am kuTxiT reforma rom

aucilebelia, cxadia, geTanxme-

biT, magram, batono kaxa, Tqveni

nebarTviT, saubris Temas Sevcvli,

anu rogorc maxsovs, elo-

debodiT, rom romelime e. w.

SuaSistur partiasTan Sesa-

Zloa, saarCevno bloki SegeqmnaT,

Tumca es idea ar ganxor-

cielda, ara?

_ diax, ar ganxorcielda.

_ ratom?

_ simarTle giTxraT, am mxriv

aqtiuri konsultaciebic ar

gvqonia. ubralod, gasuli wlis

bolos msgavsi idea arsebobda,

magram mivxvdi, rom CvenTvis misaRebi

politikuri Zalebisgan

seriozuli mzadyofna ver davinaxe.

amitom am variants SeveSviT

da arCevnebze damoukideblad

gavalT. saerTod, „aranac-qocur”

flangze gaerTianeba aqtualuria,

Tumca es, albaT, ufro

postsaarCevno periodSi moxdeba,

radgan am arCevnebiT cxovreba

ar mTavrdeba, piriqiT.

_ piriqiT, anu?

_ ZalTa Tanafardoba Seicvleba

da axali gadajgufeba daiwyeba.

amiT politikuri Zalebis

mTeli wona gamoCndeba da, vfiqrob,

2021 wlis adgilobrivi

arCevnebisTvis Zalian seriozul

politikur koalicias vixilavT!

_ 2021 wlamde sakiTxavi isaa,

axlandel arCevnebs rogor „ga-

davagorebT”. ise, politikur

komplimentad ar CamiTvaloT

da wvrili partiebidan yvelaze

kargi sastarto pozicia Tqven

kaxa kukava:

`saxelmwifo

Tavis erovnul

Zirebs unda

daubrundes~

gaqvT. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

„Tavisufali saqarTvelo” ukve

reitingebSi xvdeba. am mocemulobis

gaTvaliswinebiT, vis miiCnevT

konkurentad _ „ocnebas”,

„nacmoZraobas”, „evrop-

ul saqarTvelos”, „lelos” Tu

elisaSvilis partias?

_ Cveni konkurentebi „nacionaluri

moZraoba” da „evropuli

saqarTvelo” yvelaze naklebad

arian.

_ ratom?

_ sxvaTa Soris, am sakiTxs

regionul StabebTn Sexvedrebze

aqtiurad ganvixilavT da sul

vambob, rom am ori partiis eleqtorati

Zalian SemosazRvrulia.

_ es ras niSnavs?

_ Znelad warmomidgenia, rom

adamianma, romelic „nacebs” aZlevs

xmas, Cveni mxridan iseTi ra

argumenti SeiZleba dainaxos,

rom pozicia Seicvalos da xuTianis

nacvlad 21 Semoxazos? mokled,

Cveni mTavari konkurenti

„lelo”, elisaSvili da yvela

danarCeni politikuri partiaa.

saerTod, iciT, konkurenti ras

niSnavs?

_ cxadia, vici.

_ saprezidento arCevnebze

bevri adamiani meubneboda, ar

vici, Sen mogce xma Tu usufaSvilso?

anu im wuTas Cemi konkurenti

usufaSvili iyo. dRes ki

Cveni konkurntebi isini iqnebian,

romlebic „aranac-qocur”

flangze arian! erTi sityviT,

garkveuli TvalsazrisiT konkurencia,

ra Tqma unda, „nacionalur

moZraobasa” da „evropul

saqarTvelosTanac” gveqneba, magram

ara _ amomrCevlis gadabirebis

TvalsazrisiT!

_ „Zala erTobaSiadan” vaSaZe-

Carkvianis gasvla an igive

„evropul saqarTveloSi” arse-

buli Sida uTanxmoebebi, rome-

lTa Sesaxebac sajarod jer

araferi Tqmula, „Tavisufali

saqarTvelos” politikur wisqvilze

daasxams wyals Tu yve-

lafer amas TqvenTvis mniSvne-

loba ar aqvs?

_ gulwrfelad rom giTxraT,

amis gamo namdvilad ar vwuxvar

da SeiZleba, RimiliTac vuyurebde

da konkurentebis rigebSi

areuloba msiamovnebdes kidec,

Tumca Tu pragmatulad mivudgebiT,

es sakiTxi CvenTvis nakle-

`sul erT adgilas rom gaskdes, òcnebis~

maqsimumi 80 xmaa parlamentSi. 80-xmiani

òcneba~ ki ukve òcneba~ aRaraa! mokled,

gaxaria arCevnebis Semdegac SeiZleba,

premierad darCes, magram òcneba~, romelsac

80-kaciani umravlesoba eqneba, bevrad ufro

progresuli, komunikabeluri da zomieri

politikuri Zala gaxdeba~

bad sainteresoa.

_ arada, ase ar unda iyos,

radgan Zlier opoziciur

flangSi dawyebuli areulobiT

amomrCevels SeiZleba, guli

gautydes da swored am gulga-

texilebis

„gadmobirebaze”

unda imuSaoT. vcdebi?

_ mesmis, magram vaSaZis „nacionalebisgan”

gamoyofas Cvens

gegmebTan pirdapir ar vakavSireb,

radgan igive „nacionalebTan”,

weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos, konkurenciaSi,

albaT, ufro arCevnebis

Semdeg SevalT. saerTod,

Cemi gaTvliT, parlamentSi Zalian

bevri _ 10-11 Zala Seva. aqedan

sistemuri partia „qocebi”,

„nacebi” da „evropelebi” arian.

xuTi-eqvsi ki iseTi partia Seva,

romelsac Sansi eqneba, didi koalicia

Seqmnas da xelisuflebisTvis

ibrZolos.

_ batono kaxa, es Tema ufro

gaSaleT.

_ qarTuli politika pirobi-

Tad, SegviZlia, sam ligad davyoT:

seria „a”, romelSic „qocebi”

da „nacebi” arian da es ori

partia ZalauflebisTvis ibrZvis;

seria „b”-Si isini varT, romlebic

gamokiTxvebSi vxvdebiT

da parlamentSi Sesvlis Sansic

gvaqvs da seria „c”, sadac is partiebi

arian, romlebic parlamentSi

ver moxvdebian an amis mizeruli

Sansi aqvT. gamovricxav,

rom arCevnebis Semdeg seria „a”-

Si gadasvla romelimem SeZlos,

Tumca seria „b”-Si partiebis is

raodenoba gaCndeba, romelTac,

koaliciis Seqmnis SemTxvevaSi,

„qocebisa” da „nacebisTvis” realuri

konkurenciis gaweva See-

ZlebaT. pirdapir vityvi da am

naTqvamSi sakuTar Tavsac amoicnoben:

ramdenic unda iWiWyinos,

me mesame ki ara, pirveli an meore

Zala varo, es sufTa aferistobaa,

radgan dRes „nacebsa”

da „qocebTan” eleqtoraluri

konkurencia aravis SeuZlia!

_ mokled, imas ambobT, rom

e. w. SuaSisturi partiebi parlamentSi

gaerTiandebiT da ko-

alicias SeqmniT?

_ ar vamtkiceb, rom aucilebad

ase iqneba, magram saamisod

meti Sansi mogvecema. iciT, dRes

32 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


dasavleTi arCevnebis Sedegebs aRiarebs!~

am partiebs koaliciis SeqmnaSi

xels ra uSliT?

_ ra?

_ umetesobas sakuTar Tavze

ararealisturi warmodgena aqvs.

am adamianebTan koaliciaSi ar

var, magram megobroba ar gamiwyvetia

da erTi meubneba, rom

arCevnebSi 10 procentis aRebas

gegmavs, meore _ 12-is, mesame ki

_ 15-is, magram eleqtorati amdeni

procenti araa. aqedan gamomdinare,

arCevnebi diagnozs

yvelas dausvams da yvela miwaze

daeSveba!

_ batono kaxa, ratom gamor-

icxavT, rom parlamentSi gasu-

lma patara partiebma koalicia

erTmaneTTan ki ara, „ocnebasT-

an” Seqmnan da amiT ivaniSvilis

gunds mTavrobis dakompleqte-

bis Sansi kidev erTxel mieces?

_ arc amas gamovricxav, Tumca

yuradRebas im faqtorze

vamaxvileb, rac dRes mesame centris

Seqmnas uSlis xels, anu

dRes iseTi subieqtebi ar arian,

romlebmac mesame centri unda

Seqmnan. amJamad mesame centris

Seqmnaze pretenzia im partiebs

aqvT, romelTa reitingic erTi

procentia. arCevnebis Semdeg ki

adamiani, romelic naxavs, rom 0,3

procenti aiRo, miwaze daeSveba.

_ Tqveni monacemebiT, arCev-

nebis Semdeg „ocneba” mTavrobis

dakompleqtebas

damoukide-

blad, anu sakuTari ZalebiT

SeZlebs Tu saamisod romelime

msxvil an, sulac, patara par-

tiasTan garigebaze wava?

_ „evropuli saqarTvelosTvis”

procentebi SeiZleba, cota

momatebulia, radgan kvleva misi

dakveTiT Catarda, magram is kvlevebi,

romelic „edison riCersma”

gamoaqveyna, vfiqrob, realobasTan

axlosaa.

_ anu?

_ Cemi azriT, „ocnebis” reitingi,

proporciul nawilSi, 40-

procentis midamoebSia. Tu cxare

kampania iqneba, es procenti

cota daiwevs, dune kampaniis

SemTxvevaSi ki, SeiZleba, cota

aiwios, magram yvelaferi es plus-minus

xuTi procentis farglebSi

imeryevebs. rac Seexeba

maJoritarebs, dRevandeli monacemebiT,

„ocnebas”, albaT, 20

maJoritaris gayvanis Sansi aqvs.

aqedan gamomdinare, „ocnebas”

imis Sansic aqvs, rom erTpartiuli

umravlesoba Camoayalibos,

magram saamisod garantia ar arsebobs,

anu SeiZleba, erTi an

ori partiis xmebi dasWirdes,

Tumca mTavari mainc sxva ramea.

_ ra?

_ „ocnebas” myari umravlesobis

Sansi ar aqvs da es ufro

bevrad mniSvnelovania, vidre is,

Tu vin iqneba, magaliTad, premieri.

sul erT adgilas rom

gaskdes, „ocnebis” maqsimumi 80

xmaa parlamentSi. 80-xmiani „ocneba”

ki ukve „ocneba” aRaraa!

mokled, gaxaria arCevnebis

Semdegac SeiZleba, premierad

darCes, magram „ocneba”, romelsac

80-kaciani umravlesoba eqne-

`vaSaZis `nacionalebisgan~ gamoyofas Cvens gegmebTan pirdapir ar vakavSireb,

radgan igive `nacionalebTan~ konkurenciaSi, albaT, ufro arCevnebis Semdeg

SevalT. saerTod, Cemi gaTvliT, parlamentSi Zalian bevri - 10-11 Zala Seva.

aqedan sistemuri partia `qocebi~, `nacebi~ da èvropelebi~ arian. xuTi-eqvsi

ki iseTi partia Seva, romelsac Sansi eqneba, didi koalicia Seqmnas da

xelisuflebisTvis ibrZolos~

ba, bevrad ufro progresuli,

komunikabeluri da zomieri politikuri

Zala gaxdeba. „ocnebis”

nervebismomSleli tonaloba

im pirobebSi iyo SesaZlebeli,

roca 2016 wels 120 mandati miiRo.

am oTxi wlis ganmavlobaSi

30 deputati garicxa, magram umravlesoba

mainc SeinarCuna. wlevandeli

arCevnebis Semdeg ki

„ocnebas” es komforti aRar

eqneba!

_ yvelaferi es gasagebia, ma-

gram, Tqveni azriT, magaliTad,

„evropuli saqarTvelo”, imis

sanacvlod, rom mTavrobaSi

ramdenime ministris portfeli

miiRos, „ocnebas” saparlamento

koalicias Seuqmnis?

_ ki, amaze, hipoTeturad, yvela

wava.

_ Tqvenc?

_ ara!

_ ratom?

_ me sistemuri partia ar var!

saerTod, „ocnebisTvis” yvelas

erTi fasi ar aqvs.

_ anu?

_ „ocnebis” mier „evropul

saqarTvelosTan” koaliciis Se-

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

qmna pirosis gamarjveba iqneba,

anu aseT SemTxvevaSi, adgilobrivi

arCevnebisTvis „ocnebis”

reitingi ganaxevrdeba. mokled,

es iseTi advili Tema araa,

rogorc zogierTs warmoudgenia!

SeiZleba, viRacas gegmaSic

aqvs, rom „evropuli saqarTvelo”

samTavrobo koaliciaSi ixilos,

magram, rogorc ityvian,

lobistebi da eqspertebi bWobdnen,

amomrCeveli ki icinodao.

_ damisabuTeT, „Tavisufali

saqarTvelo” „ocnebas” saparla-

mento umravlesobas ratom ar

Seuqmnis?

_ CvenTvis koaliciaSi yofna

TviTmizani araa, Tumca Tematur

TanamSromlobas arc erT politikur

ZalasTan ar gamovricxavT.

_ e. i., Tematurad SeiZleba,

„nacionalebTanac” iTanamSrom-

loT?

_ diax da amis gamocdileba

saarCevno kodeqsze gvaqvs. ase-

Tive Tematuri TanamSromlobisTvis

„ocnebasTanac” mzad

varT, Tumca Cven mainc „TeTr

yvavebad” vrCebiT!

`bevri Tu ara, ramdenime institutia, romelsac

saqarTvelos mimarT Tavisi interesi aqvs, anu

pentagons Tavisi interesi aqvs, saxelmwifo

departaments - Tavisi, senats ki - Tavisi. yvelas

sakmarisi resursic gaaCnia, rom sakuTari

interesebis lobireba SeZlos. amitom ar

mgonia, rom aSS-Si saqarTvelosTan mimarTebiT

Camoyalibebuli pozicia arsebobdes~

_ amas ratom ambobT?

_ „nacebma”, „girCebma” Tu „qocebma”

erTmaneTs rac ar unda

aginon, yvelas mainc identuri

xedva aqvs. mTel am masaSi ki „Tavisufali

saqarTvelo” erTaderTi

„TeTri yvavia”. amitom Cven-

Tan TanamSromloba „ocnebisTvis”

bevrad ufro rTuli iqneba,

vidre _ „girCTan”, „nacionalebTan”,

„evropul saqarTvelosa”

Tu elisaSvilTan. maT,

skamebis gayofis garda, ideologiuri

problemebis gadawyveta

ar mouwevT! im SemTxvevaSi ki, Tu

„ocneba” Cveni rvapunqtiani gegmidan

erTsac ar daeTanxmeba,

masTan koaliciaSi ver SevalT.

ise, ver warmomidgenia, rom „ocneba”

rameSi dagveTanxmos. ai, Tu

dagveTanxmeba, rom bankebs gamosaxleba

unda aekrZaloT, maSin

siamovnebiT viTanamSromlebT,

magram amis praqtikuli Sansic

ar arsebobs.

_ bankebisTvis gamosaxlebis

akrZalvaze, „tribunaze” rom

aRaraferi vTqvaT, SesaZloa,

giorgi vaSaZisa da Tako Carkvi-

anis „startegia aRmaSenebeli”

dageTanxmoT.

_ aq imazea saubari, mTavroba

raze dagveTanxmeba, Torem roca

opoziciaSi arian, yvelani yvelaferSi

gveTanxmebian. sxvaTa Soris,

am pozicias „ocneba” maSin

Riad deklarirebda, roca opoziciaSi

iyo. mokled, „qarTuli

ocnebisTvis” „Tavisufali saqarTvelo”

yvelaze rTuli partniori

iqneba, radgan, rogorc

giTxariT, sxva partiebTan Tanamdebobebis

gadanawileba mouwevs

da ideologiur-politikuri

sirTuleebi ar eqneba! „Tavisufal

saqarTvelos” skamebTan

dakavSirebiT gansakuTrebuli

mada ar aqvs, Tumca Cveni programidan

iseTi sakiTxis arCeva,

romlis realizebaze SesaZloa,

mTavroba dasTanxmdes, rTuli

iqneba!

_ batono kaxa, Tqveni azriT,

2018 wlis saprezidento arCe-

vnebis meore turis msgavsad,

wlevandeli saarCevno kampaniac

agresiuli iqneba?

_ amas „ocnebac” Seecdeba da

„nacionaluri moZraobac”, Tum-

ca SuaSistebis wona gaizrdeba.

_ anu?

_ zogi ambobs, SuaSistebis

wili 50 procenti iqnebao, magram

me amdens ar velodebi, Tumca am

arCevnebze SuaSistebis wili 30

procentic rom iyos, amiT konfiguracia

arsebiTad Seicvleba

da, Sesabamisad, kampaniac agresiuli

aRar iqneba, radgan yvelaferi

ori centris irgvliv ar

itrialebs da maraTonSi sxva

partiebic iqnebian warmodgenilebi.

sxvaTa Soris, palestinaSi

simSvide manam ar damyardeba, sanam

„hamasisa” da „haTlis” garda

mesame partia ar gamoCndeba.

saqarTveloSic asea, anu vidre

„ocnebisa” da „nacmoZraobis”

dominantoba SenarCundeba, mudmivad

samoqalaqo dapirispirebisa

da areulobis zRvarze viqnebiT!

_ bolos, imasac SevexoT, aSSis

kongresma saqarTvelos daxmareba

15 procentiT rom Seum-

cira. elodebiT, rom arCevnebamde

dasavluri wnexi „ocneba-

ze” kidev ufro gaZlierdes?

_ patara qveynebisgan gansxvavebiT,

did qveynebs sxvanairi

struqtura aqvT.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ bevri Tu ara, ramdenime institutia,

romelsac saqarTvelos

mimarT Tavisi interesi aqvs,

anu pentagons Tavisi interesi

aqvs, saxelmwifo departaments _

Tavisi, senats ki _ Tavisi. yvelas

sakmarisi resursic gaaCnia,

rom sakuTari interesebis lobireba

SeZlos. amitom ar mgonia,

rom aSS-Si saqarTvelosTan mimarTebiT

Camoyalibebuli pozicia

arsebobdes, Tumca vfiqrob,

arCevnebis Sedegebi erTgvari naperwkali

da katalizatori iqneba,

Tu romeli pozicia gaimarjvebs.

pirobiTad rom vTqvaT,

Tu „ocneba” 40-procentSi „moyomardeba”,

maSin dasavleTi am

arCevnebis Sedegebs aRiarebs,

magram Tu 40-procents ascdeba,

maSin imis riski, rom arCevnebis

Sedegebis legitimacia eWvqveS

dadges, gaizrdeba.

_ ver gavige, arCevnebamde

ivaniSvilisTvis dasavleTis

mxridan sanqciebis dawesebas

eliT Tu ara?

_ es ararealisturia.

_ ratom?

_ es dasavleTis stili araa.

arCevnebamde sanqciebi rom dauwesos,

maSin elCic unda gaiwvion...

_ mokled, batono kaxa, erT-

mniSvnelovnad ver ambobT, rom

„ocneba” xelisuflebidan midis,

ara?

_ diax, ver vambob. ise, „ocnebam”

xelisuflebidan wasvla

Tavadac rom moindomos, ver wava,

radgan alternativa araa. „nacionaluri

moZraoba” Zalian Zlieria,

magram alternativa namdvilad

araa. arCevnebis beds, rogorc

wesi, meryevi amomrCeveli wyvets

xolme. am meryevi amomrCevlidan

ki erTic ar fiqrobs, rom „naci”

alternativad ganixilos.

33

„qronika+~ gTavazobT eqskluziur

intervius joni gigan-

Tan:

_ batono joni, politikaSi

aqtiurad SemoxvediT?

_ im wamidan, rac Tako politikaSi

gamoCnda, mec politikaSi

var!

_ anu partia „kanoni da sama-

rTlis” oficialuri wevri

xarT?

_ ra Tqma unda.

_ Tako gasagebia _ politika-

Si CarTvamdec, praqtikulad,

samoqalaqo aqtivisti iyo da

qveyanaSi arsebul problemebze

mudmivad Riad saubrobda, ma-

gram Tqven, romelic mTeli

cxovreba biznesiT xarT dakave-

buli, politikaSi CarTva ratom

gadawyviteT?

_ bolo 30 welia, imis saSualeba

ar meZleva, rom saqme,

romelic miyvars, vakeTo! biznes-

Si yovelTvis xelis SeSlas ganvicdi,

anu mTeli es wlebi, rac

biznesTanaa dakavSirebuli, saxelmwifos

mxridan mikerZoebulia

_ TaRliTi politikanebi

yvelafers akeTeben, rom saqarTvelo

ar ganviTardes.

_ e. i., raki biznesis ganvi-

TarebaSi xeli geSlebaT, politikaSi

CarTva da am gziT vi-

Tarebis Secvla gadawyviteT?

_ warmoidgineT, marto inflaciis

gamo 60-70 aTasi dolaris

danaklisi maqvs. es ki imas

niSnavs, rom bizness perspeqtiva

ar gaaCnia. amas garda, dRes saqarTvelos,

praqtikulad, biznesmenebi

aRar hyavs!

_ anu?

_ biznesebis gamsxvileba midis.

_ es ras niSnavs?

_ Sida brunvidan gamomdinare,

saqarTveloSi 35-40 miliardamde

mogebaa, romelic asi aTas

mcire, saSualo da did mewarmeze

unda ganawildes, magram biznesis

amonagebis 70% erT kacs _ ivani-

Svils miaqvs, anu TviTon ar Cans,

magram ofSorul zonebSi masTan

dakavSirebul firmebze iricxeba.

saqarTveloSi warmoeba

swored amitomac ar viTardeba.

_ batono joni, 2012 wels,

rogorc maxsovs, „ocnebis” mx-

ardamWeri iyaviT da nuTu, ver

xvdebodiT, rom ivaniSvili ise

moiqceoda, rogorc iqceva? sxvaTa

Soris, politikanebi im-

droindel opoziciaSic iyvnen...

_ maSin sxva ubedureba iyo,

anu reformebi tardeboda da

nebac arsebobda, rom saxelmwifo

Semdgariyo, magram aRmoCnda,

rom es mxolod erTi kacis _ saakaSvilis

neba iyo. danarCen Se-

34


`politikaSi aRviraxsniloba da

„qronika+~-is dRevandel re-

giorgi abaSiZe

spondents gansakuTrebuli ward-

gena ar sWirdeba, Tumca aqamde am

adamians sazogadoeba ise icnobda, rogorc warmatebul bi-

znesmens. axla ki joni gigans sxva ampluaSi gaicnobT, anu es

pirveli SemTxvevaa, roca partia „kanoni da samarTlis” lid-

eris, saburTalos maJoritarobis kandidat Tako Carkvianis

meuRle sajaro politikur gancxadebebs akeTebs da asabuTebs,

Tu ratom unda Seicvalos xelisufleba da magaliTad, siR-

aribe kanoniT da samarTliT rogor unda daiZlios!

mTxvevaSi ki, rasac vuyurebdi,

mTliani terori xorcieldeboda.

penitenciur sistemaSi katastrofa

xdeboda. kanonis uzenaesoba

saqarTvelos ara da ar

eRirsa! aqedan gamomdinare, sabotaJuri

moqmedebis saSualeba

yvela „Cinovniks” aqvs. diax,

saqarTveloSi kanonebi mikerZoebulia

da SevardnaZis dros SevardnaZis

„CinovnikebisTvis” iyo

mikerZoebuli, saakaSvilis dros

_ saakaSvilis „CinovnikebisTvis”.

sxvaTa Soris, is sistema, romelic

saakaSvilma reformebis gziT

Seqmna, „ocnebam” SeinarCuna, magram

am xelisuflebis politikuri

neba saxelmwifo biujetis

gaRletvaa!

_ batono joni, konkretulad

mipasuxeT: rodis mixvdiT, rom

„ocnebis” politikuri neba qveynis

gadarCena ki ara, saxelm-

wifo biujetis gaRletva iyo?

_ „ocnebis” xelisuflebaSi

mosvlidan, daaxloebiT, erTi

Tvis Semdeg, anu erT TveSi mivxvdi,

rom ivaniSvils ar undoda,

saqarTvelos politikuri veqtori

evroatlantikuri yofiliyo!

_ amas, mgoni, manamdec unda

mivmxdariyaviT, radgan kargad

iciT, ruseTSi fulis, miT

umetes, miliardebis Sovna spec-

samsaxurebis Carevis gareSe

SeuZlebelia. mokled, vidre

„ocneba” xelisuflebaSi movi-

doda, minimum, sakuTari Tavis-

Tvis ar dagisvamT kiTxva, rom

ivaniSvili SesaZloa, evroat-

lantikuri kursis winaaRmdegi

yofiliyo?

_ es kaci profesionali TaRliTia

da ver mivxvdi, Tan ruse-

Tidan Zalian adre gamoiqca.

saqarTveloSi, praqtikulad, aravin

icnobda da WorvilaSi iyo.

mokled, vifiqre, gamoqceulia;

ruseTSi biznesic, procentulad,

cota aqvs, danarCeni ki _

evropaSi da aqedan gamomdinare,

unda, rom saqarTvelo aaSenosmeTqi.

amasTan, am kacma qvelmoqmedebis

imitacia Seqmna da radgan

saqarTveloSic arsad Canda,

vifiqre, albaT, putins emalebameTqi.

...ki, vici, vin vinaa, magram

aqamde politikaSi ar viyavi. Sei-

Zleba, yvelaze yvelaferi vicodi,

magram is berketi ar mqonda,

rac politikas aqvs. politika

Cemi saqme ar yofila, magram

politikaSi mosvla axla imitom

gadavwyvite, rom kanonis uzenaesoba

damyardes da kanonebi xalxisTvis

miviRoT, raTa nebismierma

pirovnebam TviTganviTareba

hpovos. dRes amis saSualeba araa,

radgan mikerZoebuli kanonebi

gvaqvs!

_ mikerZoebuli kanonebi imi-

tom gvaqvs, rom sakanonmdeblo

organoSi araprofesionalebi

arian?

_ diax, ase vfiqrobdi, magram

Cven garda, jerjerobiT, erTi

politikosisTvisac ki ar Semim-

Cnevia, rom am mikerZoebuli

kanonebis xelidan gaSveba unda!

_ „CvenSi” vis gulisxmobT?

_ „kanonsa da samarTals” da

„axal saqarTvelos”. Cveni platformis

_ „strategia aRmaSeneblis”

mTavari mizania, rom prokuratura

da sasamarTlo politikuri

wnexisgan gavaTavisufloT.

amis gareSe Sansi araa, rom

saqarTvelo win wavides!.. Cemi

ojaxi politikaSi maSin CaerTo,

roca evroveqtoris opozicias

gaZliereba sWirdeboda. „Zala

erTobaSia” mixeil saakaSvilis

proeqti iyo da evroveqtoris

gasaZliereblad nabiji gadavdg-

joni gigani:

iT. sxvaTa Soris, saakaSvilis „nacebi”

dResac evroveqtorad mimaCnia

da SeuZlebelia, rom evroveqtoris

gaZlierebis gareSe

prokuratura da sasamarTlo

politikuri wnexisgan ganTavisufldes!

amas garda, saxelmwifo

auditsac xalxi unda irCevdes,

„sazogadoebriv mauwyebels”

ki imis SesaZlebloba unda

hqondes, rom mosaxleobis gamRletvelebs

ki ara, saxelmwifosa

da xalxs emsaxuros! amasTan,

aucilebelia, rom arCevnebi eleqtronuli

sistemiT Catardes

da amiT arCevnebSi, Tundac, axalgazrdebis

monawileoba gaizardos.

swored es gza gaiara baltiispireTma.

ise, mxolod me ki

ara, mTel saqarTvelos SeeSala!

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ erTi rom ZalauflebiT ga-

Rordeba da gaskdeba, mere meores

viTxovT da vfiqrobT,

iqneb, es ukeTesi iyoso, magram

`Sida brunvidan gamomdinare, saqarTveloSi 35-

40 miliardamde mogebaa, romelic asi aTas

mcire, saSualo da did mewarmeze unda

ganawildes, magram biznesis amonagebis 70% erT

kacs - ivaniSvils miaqvs, anu TviTon ar Cans,

magram ofSorul zonebSi masTan dakavSirebul

firmebze iricxeba. saqarTveloSi warmoeba

swored amitomac ar viTardeba~

`bolo 30 welia,

imis saSualeba

ar meZleva, rom

saqme, romelic

miyvars, vakeTo!~

Tu prokuraturasa da sasamarTlos

politikuri wnexisgan ar

gavaTavisuflebT, mudmivad am

or ferSi _ „iqneb, es iyos uke-

Tesi” _ viqnebiT da samarTlianoba

ar aRdgeba! adamiani parlamentSi

rom Sedis, ar unda fiqrobdes,

rom prokurori gaxdeba

an prokuraturas rames sTxovs.

2012-Si, roca ivaniSvili modioda,

am mxriv gausaZlisi mdgomareoba

iyo da amitom yvelaferi is

aucileblad unda Secvliliyo,

magram meore ubedurebaSi movyeviT.

saerTod, es rusuli specsamsaxurebis

mizania.

_ anu?

_ saqarTveloSi politika

mravalmxrivi ki ara, or ukiduresobas

Soris iyos.

_ batono joni, konkretul

kiTxvas dagisvamT da konkretulad

mipasuxeT: mixeil saakaS-

vilmac, Tavis erT-erT bolo

gamosvlaSi, qarTuli politika

or ferad gayo da pirdapir

Tqva, rom giorgi vaSaZe sibne-

lis mxares dadga. es ras niSnavs

da rogor unda gavigoT?

_ is nabiji, romelic Cven gadavdgiT,

Seqmnilma mdgomareobam

gamoiwvia.

_ e. i., „Zala erTobaSiaSi”

raRac iseTi xdeboda?

_ ara.

_ aba?

_ ivaniSvilma SeZlo, rom

politikaSi ori feri _ TeTri

da Savi, anu „nacebi” da „qocebi”

iyvnen. saakaSvili ki cdilobs,

rom sakuTari partia gaaZlieros

da, aqedan gamomdinare,

Tavis strategias mihyveba. 2018

wlis saprezidento arCevnebSi,

mogexsenebaT, „Zala erTbaSiam”

gamarjveba SeZlo, anu gagviyalbes,

Torem grigol vaSaZis

xmebi 51 procentze meti iyo da

pirvelsave turSi gavimarjveT,

magram gayalbebiT meore turi

daniSnes, sadac gamoCnda, rom

ivaniSvilTan erTi erTze darCena

rTulia.

_ ratom?

_ jer erTi, imitom, rom biujetidan

milionebs iparavs. meorec,

im mogebis 70%, rac asamde

biznesmens ekuTvnis, mxolod mas

da putins miaqvT. mokled, ivan-

34 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


meqrTameoba unda damTavrdes!~

iSvils Zalian didi fuli aqvs.

_ es gasagebia, magram sxva ram

gkiTxeT, anu saakaSvilma qarTu-

li politika or ferad ratom

gayo da „strategia aRmaSeneblis”

Seqmnas ratom ar miesal-

ma?

_ mogexsenebaT, saakaSvili aq

ar aris da sxvanair gaTvlas

akeTebs. Cven ki Cveni gaTvla gvaqvs.

_ saubari iqiTken xom ar mi-

gyavT, rom garemocvis wevrebi

saakaSvils qveyanaSi arsebul

viTarebaze araswor informacias

awvdian da sxvanair real-

obas anaxeben?

_ Cemi azriT, saakaSvils im

donis informacias awvdian, ra

donis informaciis gadamcemebic

hyavT, anu vinc saakaSvils informacias

awvdis, mdgomareobas

ise ver aRiqvams, rogorc, magaliTad,

„kanoni da samarTali”

aRiqvams. Cven ki politikas sxvisi

aRqmiT ver vawarmoebT da

aqedan gamomdinare, is nabiji

gadavdgiT, romelic sworad miviCnieT.

ai, daakvirdiT, 2019 wlis

20 ivnisis Semdeg leiboristebis

ofisSi opozicia Seikriba,

saidanac zogs fsevdoopozicias

veZaxiT. yvelaferi es CemTvis,

rogorc „kanoni da samarTlis”

wevrisTvis, „Zala erTobaSias”

dangrevis mcdeloba iyo.

_ leiboristebis magidis, ase

vTqvaT, lokomotivi „evropuli

saqarTvelo” gaxldaT. yovel

SemTxvevaSi, garedan ase Canda.

hoda, „Zala erTobaSias” dan-

grevas bokeria cdilobda Tu

ivaniSvili?

_ ivaniSvilic, bokeriac da

ruseTume partiebic.

_ leiboristebis ofisSi

gamokveTili prorusuli ganwyobebi

burjanaZes aqvs. am magidasTan

sxva ruseTumeebic isxd-

nen?

_ politika iseTia, rom ver, ase

vTqvaT, miaswreb, vin vinaa. am

SemTxvevaSi mxolod burjanaZe

gyavs „miswrebuli”, romelsac

Riad aqvs gacxadebuli, rom putinis

partiaa da saxelic „edinnaia

rossias” qarTuli Sesatyvisi

hqvia. mokled, sxvebze ase pirdapir

ver vityvi, Tumca eWvi maqvs.

_ sxva opoziciuri partieb-

is prorusulobaze ris gamo

gaqvT eWvi?

_ roca im politikas asxam

wyals, romelic putins awyobs,

es ruseTumeobaa! SeiZleba, Tvi-

Ton deda daificos, ruseTume

ar varo, magram masTan erTad im

sakiTxebze samsjelod dajdoma,

romelic saxelmwifos ganvi-

Tarebas ar awyobs, ar Rirs. sxvaTa

Soris, 2018 wlamde „nacebisTvis”

iseTi cudi periodi iyo,

rom televiziebSic ki ver sxdebodnen,

Tumca Tako Carkvianma

gaxsna da im mesijma gaWra, rac

xalxisTvis mniSvnelovani iyo.

_ romel mesijs gulisxmobT,

batono joni?

_ im mesijs, rom wina xelisuflebis

dros, Secdomebis miuxedavad,

reformebi tardeboda da

saxelmwifo institutebi Sendeboda!

„nacionalebis” dros arsebobda

politikuri neba, rom

saxelmwifo Camoyalibebuliyo _

saakaSvili rom movida, biujeti

200 milioni iyo da 5 miliardze

aiyvana, rac imas niSnavda, ruse-

Tis specsamsaxurebsa da qarTvel

gamyidvel „Cinovnikebs” Zalian

didi fuli _ 4 miliardze

meti piridan gamoacala. ...simar-

Tle giTxraT, cxovrebis Zalian

didi gamocdileba maqvs da isic

vici, vinc dRes politikaSia,

saidan da rogor movida! me da

Takom ki yvelaferi erTad gadavitaneT,

Tanac Tako iseT ojax-

Sia gazrdili, rom igive gamocdileba

aqeT mommata _ im brwyinvale

gamocdilebas, romelic

jansuR Carkvianis ojaxs aqvs,

svaneTSi versaidan miviRebdi!

mokled, is adamiani var, romelsac

sworad moazrovne pirovnebis

mosmena siamovnebs!

gulwrfelad getyviT: Tako

qarTul politikaSi Zalian saintereso

axali da sufTa saxea!

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

àucilebelia, rom arCevnebi eleqtronuli sistemiT Catardes da amiT

arCevnebSi, Tundac, axalgazrdebis monawileoba gaizardos. swored es gza

gaiara baltiispireTma~

aseve ganaTlebuli adamianicaa,

romelic Tavis principebs arasodes

Ralatobs!

_ SeiZleba, magram mavani

„Zala erTobaSiaSi” situaciis

aWras swored Takos abralebs,

anu zogi ambobs, premierobis

kandidatad giorgi vaSaZis

dasaxeleba naCqarevi iyo da

raki partniorebisgan mxardaW-

era ver igrZnes, „axalma

saqarTvelom” da „kanonma da

samarTalma” „Zala erTobaSia”

amitom datoveso.

_ ara, me ase ar vfiqrob.

_ aba, rogor fiqrobT?

_ davrwmundi, rom Cven sxva

gamosavali ar gvqonda.

_ ratom?

_ „nacebma” TbilisSi maJoritarobis

ori olqi daitoves,

eqvsi ki sxvebs misces...

me da Takom SevxedeT mdgomareobas:

ivaniSvilma icis, rom

mTlianad gavaSiSvleT da im

donis gayalbebas Tu fulis

darigebas veRar SeZlebs, rogorc

saprezidento arCevnebis

`Cveni platformis - `strategia aRmaSeneblis~

mTavari mizania, rom prokuratura da

sasamarTlo politikuri wnexisgan

gavaTavisufloT. amis gareSe Sansi araa, rom

saqarTvelo win wavides!..~

dros. swored amitom ivaniSvilma

da leiboristebis ofisSi Sekrebilma

magidam sazogadoeba

daabnia, anu xalxi veRar xvdeboda,

vin aris ivaniSvilTan da vin

_ namdvili opozicia. amitom

xalxs fsevdoopozicia aranaklebad

ezizReba, vidre ivaniSvili!

es mdgomareoba ki ivaniSvils,

ureitingo partiebsa da

ruseTumeebs awyobT! „nacebs”

TavianTi amomrCeveli hyavT, Sua

xmebisTvis ki xazaraZe, elisaSvili

da bokeria Semovidnen.

vfiqrob, yvela es „ivaniSvili

oria” da mas Semdeg, rac parlamentSi

SevalaT, amas xmamaRla

vityviT! amasTan, Tu arCevnebi

gayalbda, magram is scenari

gaTamaSdeba, rac putinsa da

Jirinovskis Soris moxda, maSinve

fsevdoopoziciis mxilebas daviwyebT

da rogorc ki TaRliTobas

davinaxavT, parlamentSi Sesvlis

miuxedavad, quCaSi gadavinacvlebT.

Tumca ar minda, vinmem

ise gaigos, rom am SemTxveva-

Si saakaSvilis proeqtze vlaparakob!

ivaniSvilma unda gaigos,

rom misi wasvla mxolod saakaSvils

ki ara, Cvenc gvinda, radgan

saqarTvelo katastrofaSia!

_ batono joni, yvelaferi es

gasagebia, magram igive „nacebi”

giorgi vaSaZes imas axseneben,

rom vano CxartiSvili misi

colis biZaa. „strategia aRmaSenebeli”

Tundac saarCevno kam-

panias ra saxsrebiT Caatarebs?

_ Cemi dRevandeli mdgomareoba

imas ar niSnavs, rom Cemi

partiisa da igive „strategia aRmaSeneblis”

dafinanseba gami-

Wirdes!

_ anu axali platformis dam-

finansebeli mxolod Tqven

xarT?

_ Cemi wrec _ biznesSi Zalian

bevri mxardamWeri da megobari

myavs! sxvaTa Soris, yvelaferi

naTeli iqneba da kiTxvis niSnebi

ar darCeba, vin saidan finansdeba!

saerTod, colis biZaze saubari

sisulelea, Torem ase Tu mivudgebiT,

dedis mxridan 150

naTesavi myavs, mamisgan _ asi da

aqedan zogi sad muSaobs da zogic

_ sad, Tumca es CemTan kav-

SirSi araa! saqarTveloSi swored

es unda moispos _ iseTi po-

litikuri reforma unda gavataroT,

rom colis biZas ki ara,

Svilic rom iyos, veravin uSvelos!

politikuri wnexisgan Tavisufali

prokuratura zustad

imas niSnavs, rom xalxis mier ar-

Ceuli prokurori xalxis interesebs

daicavs da premieric reformebs

gaatarebs, radgan prokurorma

fulis moparva ar

daabralos! aseTi Woriknoba da

aRviraxsniloba unda damTavrdes!

saakaSvilma e. w. qurduli

mentalitetis winaaRmdeg kanoni

miiRo, magram gana, jaSuSebi qurduli

mentalitetis xalxze naklebad

saSiSebi ar arian? hoda,

usafrTxoebis kanonic unda mie-

Ro, rom iseTi naZiralebi, rogoric,

magaliTad, nugzar fofxaZe

da koka yandiaSvilia, ase win

veRar wamoweuliyvnen! aseTi kanoni

rom mieRo, fofxaZe an saqarTvelos

datovebda, an cixeSi

wavidoda! mokled, is gvinda, rom

reformebi gatardes da prokuroris

movaleoba premierma Tu

prezidentma aRar Seasrulos!

_ batono joni, „strategia

aRmaSeneblis” saarCevno siaSi

iqnebiT?

_ Tu gundi saWirod miiCnevs,

viqnebi, Tu ara _ ar viqnebi. am

sakiTxze jer ar gvimsjelia. ise,

mTeli cxovreba imas vambob, rom

politika ar minda, magram im

ideebis ganxorcielebis saSualeba,

rac maqvs, arasodes momeca.

saqarTveloSi Cemnairi Zalian

bevria da aq ar vicxovroT?

diax, mTeli coxvreba mxolod

Cemi saqme mainteresebs, magram am

saqmis gakeTeba mxolod konkurentul

garemoSi SeiZleba, sadac

janmrTeli da dasavluri

biznesis warmoeba kanoniTa da

samarTliTaa SesaZlebeli. marto

aseT dros ganviTardeba

qveyana. korufciuli biznesiT

qveyana ver ganviTardeba!

_ bolos, batono joni, sax-

alxo poeti jansuR Carkviani

dRes cocxali rom iyos, Tako-

sa da Tqvens politikaSi CarT-

vaze ras ityoda?

_ erT rames getyviT: Cemi

SesaZleblobebidan gamomdinare,

90-iani wlebidan SemeZlo, rom

politikaSi vyofiliyavi, magram

imis gamo, rom januki sazogado

moRvawe iyo, me da Tako politikaSi

naklebad viyaviT, Tumca

yvela problemur sakiTxze vaqtiurobdiT.

sxvaTa Soris, jansuRs,

cocxali rom iyos, Cveni

nabiji moewoneboda!

_ batono joni, ivaniSvilsa

da saakaSvilTan ra kiTxvebi

gaqvT?

_ radgan bolo 30 wlis ganmavlobaSi

reformebis niWi saakaSvils

aRmoaCnda, vkiTxav: yvelaferi

ratom ar miiyvana bolomde?

ivaniSvilTan ki erTi kiTxva

maqvs: Tu putinis mona ar

xarT, politikaSi ra gindaT?!

saerTod, ivaniSvili qarTuli

mentalitetis azrze araa da ise-

Ti pativmoyvarea, rom SegrZneba

ar aqvs, adamians ra SesaZleblobebi

aqvs!

35


onkologiuris skandali grZeldeba

Tamar rostiaSvili

577 10 07 06

„sami Tvis win moxda es ambavi

da me yoveldRiurad sak-

uTar Tavze vmuSaob, rom

stresi gavinelo”, _ ase iwyebs

„qronika+~-sTan saubars „universaluri

samedicino centris”

(yofili „onkologiu-

ri”) eqimi-laboranti, eliso

alania:

_ yvelaferi daiwyo Cemi

meuRlis avadmyofobiT, romelsac

onkologiuri diagnozi

sami wliT adre daesva. am sami

wlis ganmavlobaSi ise vuvlidi,

rom gardacvalebamde Tavisi

diagnozi ar gaugia. 2020

wlis Tebervlidan daewyo saSineli

tkivilebi saxsrebSi, ZvlebSi...

amas imitom geubnebiT,

rom 10 aprils, rodesac onkologiur

klinikaSi morige viyavi

da damirekes, sisxls aRebinebso,

mivxvdi, rasTanac mqonda

saqme. es ar iyo is SemTxveva,

erTjeradad rom dagirekos

ojaxis wevrma, _ wneva maqvs,

SeuZlod var da a. S. Cems meu-

Rles ukve sisxldenebi hqonda

dawyebuli, magram im diliT me

mainc samsaxurSi wavedi, morigeoba

rom ar gamecdina. Tan im

periodSi ganmeorebiTi analizebi

avuRe da miviRe saSineli

pasuxebi, romelic kritikuli

iyo. es dokumentebi jer kidev

Cemi qmris sicocxlis period-

Si xelT maqvs. am gamokvlevebis

pasuxebi rom miviRe, TviTon

eqimi-laboranti gaxlavarT,

gadavreke mis mkurnal eqimTan,

vuTxari, rom sisxls aRebinebda

da miTxra, saswrafod hospitalizacia

gaukeTeo. davureke

Cemi laboratoriis xelmZRvanels...

ar dagaviwydeT, rom

am dros aris komendantis saaTi

da 9 saaTisTvis qalaqSi

moZraoba wydeba. Cemi laboratoriis

xelmZRvaneli dali

fircxalaiSvili Cavayene saqmis

kursSi, rom qmari mikvdeba

da saavadmyofoSi unda gadaviyvano-meTqi,

mas ki Cemi Semcvleli

gamoeZaxa. dali fircxalaiSvilma

Zalian gulgrilad

miiRo es yvelaferi. mec

vyofilvar laboratoriis xelmZRvaneli

da rodesac saWiroebas

vxedavdi, samsaxurSi gavsulvar

Ramis 2 saaTze da Semicvlia

morige. yvela satelefono

amonaweri maqvs imisa, Tu

rogor Cavayene yvela instancia

saqmis kursSi _ daviwye laboratoriis

xelmZRvaneliT,

Semdeg davureke mTavar eqims,

reanimaciis ganyofilebis gamges

da bolos klinikis direqtor

giorgi enuqiZes. ar wamovedi,

sanam Semcvleli ar movida

da amis gamo afTiaqs Zlivs

mivuswari, rom Cemi qmrisTvis

wamali meyida. aqve getyviT,

rom Cemi Semcvleli mxolod

reanimaciis ganyofilebis gamgem

moiyvana, isic mTavari eqimis

CareviT. rodesac giorgi

imas, rodesac yvelas saqmis kursSi

Caayeneb qmris avadmyofobis

gamo. TiTqos Cemi qmari im

dRes gaxda avad. axsnaganmartebiT

baraTSi ar Cawera arc

Cemi qmris mdgomareoba, arc

diagnozi, Tu ratom gavxdi

iZulebuli, rom Semcvleli

momeTxova. mokled, am axsna-ganmartebiTi

baraTis safuZvelze

gamomicxades sastiki sayveduri.

am dros me da Cemi meuRle

vwevarT germanul hospiriT

hgavs sakuTari qmris panaSvidi dasvenebas?

enuqiZes davureke, rom Cemi

meuRle saavadmyofoSi gadamyavs-meTqi,

enuqiZis pasuxi

aseTi iyo, ra dros dasvenebaa

am pandemiis droso. „me dasasveneblad

mivdivar-meTqi?” _ ai,

es vkiTxe. 11 aprils (oRond

amas vgebulob 3 ivliss) axsnaganmartebiT

baraTs wers laboratoriis

xelmZRvaneli dali

fircxalaiSvili, rom me davtove

morigeoba TviTneburad...

anu TviTneburad Turme hqvia

`qmris gardacvalebis miuxedavad, giorgi

enuqiZem ar momca Svebuleba, arc uxelfaso.

samagierod, 29 maiss maTavisuflebs

samsaxuridan. ar dagaviwydeT, rom arc sastiki

sayveduris da arc samsaxuridan

ganTavisuflebis Sesaxeb CemTvis aravis

Seutyobinebia~

talSi, saidanac erTi Tve ar

gamovsulvarT.

_ rodis gardaicvala Tqve-

ni meuRle?

_ 6 maiss davkrZaleT. Tan ar

dagaviwydeT, rom karantinia.

qmris gardacvalebis miuxedavad,

giorgi enuqiZem ar momca

Svebuleba, arc uxelfaso. samagierod,

29 maiss maTavisuflebs

samsaxuridan. ar dagaviwydeT,

rom arc sastiki sayveduris

da arc samsaxuridan ganTavisuflebis

Sesaxeb CemTvis

aravis Seutyobinebia. me is vici

mxolod, rom im periodSi

onkologiur centrSi midis

reorganizacia da unda Sewydes

samedicino saqmianoba.

_ principSi, asec moxda?

_ 35 weli ise vimuSave onkologiur

centrSi, rom sayveduri

ar mimiRia. aseTi ubedureba

damatyda Tavs _ qmari davkarge

da direqtors aseTi rame

gaekeTebinos TanamSromlisTvis,

ar gamigia. ras warmovidgendi,

rom ase gamimetebda...

_ Tqven ar hkiTxeT Tqvens

xelmZRvanelobas, ris gamo

gagaTavisufles, momakvdavi

meuRle rom ar miatoveT?

_ jer erTi, arc vicodi,

rom gamaTavisufles. SemTxveviT

gaigo Cemma TanamSromelma...

kancelariaSi uTxres, rom

eliso ganTavisuflebuli ariso.

mere davureke da meilze

Cemi moTxovnis safuZvelze gamomigzavnes

ganTavsuflebis

brZaneba, romelzec warmodgena

ar mqonda. ukve aviyvane advokati

da davas sasamarTloSi

gavagrZelebT. aseve mivmarTe

saxalxo damcvelis aparats.

„qronika+~ meore mxaresac

daukavSirda, kerZod, „univer-

saluri samedicino centris”

laboratoriis xelmZRvanel

dali fircxalaiSvils:

_ eliso alania Tavisi gan-

Tavisuflebis erT-erT mize-

zad asaxelebs imas, rom Tqven

axsnaganmartebiT baraTSi ar

CawereT sworad mizezi.

_ Cems axsna-ganmartebaSi weria,

meuRlis avadmyofobis gamo.

weria, rom gamocxadda samsaxurSi,

magram datova samsaxuri

meuRlis avadmyofobis

gamo

_ meuRle avad hyavda sami

weli da im momentSi daumZimda,

misi saswrafo hospital-

izacia gaxda saWiro.

_ iciT, zustad im dros

moiyvanes pacienti sisxlisdeniT.

saswrafod misaRebi iyo

zomebi, Cven Canacvleba ver

movaxerxeT da amis gamo moxda

es yvelaferi.

_ Tqven vera, magram reanimaciis

gamgem xom moiyvana Sem-

cvleli?

_ me eliso alanias axsnaganmartebaSi

Cavuwere meuRlis

avadmyofoba, magram maSin

xom ar gardaicvala, daaxloebiT

ori kviris Semdeg gardaicvala.

Tanac, im wuTas Zalian

cudi situacia iyo. is, visac

SeiZleboda Caenacvlebina,

isic cudad iyo.

_ wlebia, erTad muSaobT.

Tqvens TanamSromels qmari

ukvdeboda, gardaecvala kidec

maleve da, albaT, samsaxuridan

amis gamo gaSvebas ar imsaxurebda.

Tqven rogor fiq-

robT?

_ xo, magram me ra SuaSi var?

„qronika+~ Tvals gaadevnebs

eliso alanias qeiss, aseve kidev

sami eqimis sasamarTlo procesebs

(romelsac aqtiurad va-

SuqebdiT) „universalur samedicino

centrTan”.

36

36 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

23-e gverdidan

- amerikis SeerTebuli Statebi

am viTarebas, jerjerobiT, mxolod

akvirdeba. oRond ara imitom,

rom saqarTvelos xelisuflebas

ver mosTxovs, ar gaataros

Turquli iaraRi azerbaijan-

Si an rusuli iaraRi _ somexTSi,

aramed upiratesad im mizeziT,

rom Tavadac icavs aq garkveul

„balanss” somxeT-azerbaijans,

ruseT-TurqeTs Soris da

saqarTvelos pozicia am balansis

Semadgenlad miaCnia.

_ aqve gverds ver avuvli

beiruTSi momxdar faqts,

romelTanac mimarTebiT baTumis

Tema gaJRerda. Tu SeiZleba,

amaze ufro metad detalurad...

_ amoniumis gvarjila, romelic

beiruTSi afeTqda, rusTavis

„azotSia” warmoebuli. es qarxana

am nivTierebas, romelic rogorc

sasuqad SeiZleba gamoiyeno, aseve

asafeTqebel nivTierebad, ukve 50

welze metia, yidis msoflio bazrebze

da amaSi ukanono an, miT

umetes, kriminaluri araferia.

sxva saqmea, rom im gemis mepatronem,

romelsac feTqebadsaSi-

Si nivTiereba TiTqos mozambikSi

mihqonda, sabuTebis mixedviT,

moulodnelad igi beiruTSi „Caitana”,

anu, SeiZleba iTqvas, konfliqtis

zonaSi. es, jer kidev,

2013 wels moxda. gemis mflobeli

an damqiravebeli ruseTis moqalaqea,

kapitanic rusia, ekipaJi

rusulia, TviT gemi bulgarulia,

xolo droSa _ anu statusi

moldovuri hqonda. „azotsac”

dRes sul sxva mflobeli hyavs da

es sawarmo bolo 20 wlis ganmavloabSi

xelidan xelSi gadadioda.

saeWvo garemoebebi saqmeSi

aSkaraa, magram danamdvilebiT mxolod

imis Tqma SeiZleba, rom Tu

kriminalur „kvalzea” laparaki,

am kvals sxva qalaqebSi ufro

mivyavarT, vidre _ qalaq rusTav-

Si. vimeoreb: TavisTavad araferi

ukanoni amoniumis gvarjilis

eqsportSi ar aris, Tundac mizani

misgan samrewvelo asafeTqebeli

nivTierebis warmoeba iyos.

mozambikis qarxanaSi ramdenime

qveynidan CaaqvT amoniumi, raTa

misgan samrewvelo asafeTqebeli

nivTiereba daamzadon. esec

sruliad legaluri saqmianobaa.

oRond viRacam, gasarkvevia vin,

ganizraxa, saSiSi tvirTi iq aRmoCeniliyo,

sadac eqstremistuli

organizacia „hezbolla” moqmedebs

_ ukve aTeulobiT wlis

ganmavlobaSi rom eomeba mezobel

patara saxelmwifos. es saxelmwifoc

rom amas didxans ar moiTmenda,

cxadia. rebusebiT gvixdeba

laparaki, magram ras vizamT? _

isic simptomaturi iqneba, dainiSneba

Tu ara saerTaSoriso gamo-

Zieba.

_ principSi, iq movlenebi axla

ise viTardeba, rom sul male

gaxdeba cxadi bevri ram _ rev-

oluciur process vgulisxmob,

rac udavod am afeTqebas moyva

an afeTqeba iyo winapiroba. ze-

moT moyvanili kiTxvebi, razedac

mogiwia pasuxis gacema, imisTvis

mWirdeboda, rom axla damesva

Semdegi kiTxva, _ yvelaferi es

rogor moqmedebs saqarTvelos

saerTaSoriso imijze? da metic:

rogoria amJamad Cveni saerTa-

Soriso poziciebi, Tundac

ruseTidan momdinare safrTxee-

bis konteqstSi?

_ saqarTvelo imyofeba interesTa

garkveul „balansSi”, romelsac

qmnis ara TviT saqarTvelo,

aramed is saxelmwifoebi, is „Zalis

centrebi”, romelTa „Zalumi

veli” vrceldeba saqarTvelos

teritoriaze, metad an naklebad.

zogi metad, zogi naklebad. Tumca

es „metnakleboba” mainc qmnis

balanss. davasaxeloT es „Zalumi

velebi”: moskovi, ankara, baqo, erevani,

vaSingtoni, briuseli, bolo

dros ukve pekini da Teirani. vimeoreb:

zogi metad, zogi naklebad,

Tumca amiT „balansi” mainc iqmneba.

patara da susti _ ara ubralod

„patara” _ Sveicariac „pataraa”,

aramed „susti” qveynis bediswera

aseTia: scados am „qsovilSi”

sakuTari interesebis dacva

im prioritetebis Sesabamisad,

rasac isaxavs konkretul period-

Si konkretuli mTavroba.

sxva saqmea, ramdenad sworad

gansazRvravs am prioritetebs am-

Jamindeli mTavroba, magram, rogorc

ityvian, rac aris is aris:

dRes prioritetad iTvleba im

„status-kvos” rogorme Senar-

Cuneba, rac Camoyalibda 2008 wlis

seqtembris Semdeg, rodesac ruse-

Tis saokupacio Zalebma datoves

baqo-Tbilisi-gori-baTumi-stambolis

strategiuli avtomagistrali.

am balansis SenarCuneba

arc ise advilia, rogorc erTi

SexedviT Cans: ruseTs igi aRar awyobs

da mis darRvevas „sinjavs”.

amas adasturebs swored gauTavebeli

„mcocavi borderizacia” _

sul ufro axlos strategiul avtomagistralTan.

SeiZleba vimsjeloT

imaze, ramdenad sworad

aris SerCeuli es prioriteti an


daTo gamcemliZe: `vaSingtons

raRac gansakuTrebiT

aSfoTebs saqarTvelos

amJamindel saSinao Tu

sagareo politikaSi~

`me imaSic ar var bolomde darwmunebuli,

rom òcneba~ waagebs am arCevnebs. komikuria,

rodesac partiebi jer mougebeli arCevnebis

Sedegad `kuTvnil~ Tanamdebobebs iyofen. es

saSinlad aRizianebs xalxs da gansakuTrebiT

im `gadauwyvetel~ amomrCevels, romelic am

qveyanaSi tradiciulad mravalricxovania~

romeli mTavroba moaxerxebda

ukeT am interesis ganxorcielebas,

Tumca es sxva, ufro „Teoriuli”

sakiTxia.

_ SesaZloa, es arCevnebs

pirdapir ar ukavSirdeba, magram

Cven, am Tu sxva xelisuflebis

pirobebSi, mogviwevs raRac saxis

pasuxis gacema „afxazur iniciativebze”.

kargi iqneba, Tu es pasuxebi

kvlav „sasargeblo idiot-

is” poziciidan ar gaicema. magram

cxadia, rom raRac simptomebi

unda gamovavlinoT. aq ra perspeqtivebi

arsebobs? es imis miuxedavad,

rom Cemi da Seni pozi-

cia separatistul-okupirebul

regionebTan dakavSirebiT erTma-

neTs emTxveva.

_ istoriuli faqtebi gavixsenoT,

radgan msjelobis ra stilsac

ar unda mivmarToT, yvelaze

relevanturi mainc „wyalgauvali

faqtebiT” msjelobaa: 1996 wels

TbilisSi Camovida afxazuri separatizmis

istoriuli lideri,

konstantine ozgani. Camovida marto,

im cbieri sababiT, TiTqos

saqarTvelos xelisuflebasTan _

SevardnaZesTan _ gaemarTa molaparakeba

ltolvilTa dabrunebis

Sesaxeb. sinamdvileSi, rasakvirvelia,

amitom ki ar CamobrZanda,

aramed im mizniT, raTa ganexorcielebina

Zalian eSmakuri politikuri

„teqnologia” moskovis

„rbili SantaJisa”. saqme isaa, rom

zustad maSin warmoiSva konfliqti

soxumsa da moskovs Soris, radgan

afxazma „boevikebma” gudau-

TaSi rusi jariskaci mokles, ramac

ruseTSi didi aRSfoTeba

gamowivia da afxazeTs daxmareba

Seuwyvites. ozganis vizitiT afxazebma

„rbilad” gaafrTxiles

moskovi, rom Tu metismetad gaa-

Zliereben „zewolas”, maSin afxazeTis

xelisufleba TbilisTan,

briuselTan da vaSingtonTan gamarTavda

dialogs, rac moskovisTvis

saxifaTo iqneboda, raki

amiT saqarTveloze zewolis „berkets”

dakargavda. am teqnologiam

„brwyinvale” Sedegi maSinve gamoiRo

da moskovma wnexi moxsna. meored,

ukve mixeil saakaSvilis

prezidentobisas, rodesac kvlav

warmoiSva uTanxmoeba soxumsa da

moskovs Soris da ruseTma afxazeTTan

sazRvari Caketa, Sesabamisad,

afxazuri produqciis Setanac

akrZala, imave afxazuri separatizmis

meore istoriuli

lideri, sergei Samba TbilisSi

Camovida, xolo NATO-s yofili

generaluri mdivani, ruseTSi lamis

upirveles mtrad miCneuli

xavier solana (es bevrs aRar axsovs),

soxumSi miiwvies.

maSin erT-erTi aseTi „qarTveli

sasargeblo idioti”, visac

Zalian maRali Tanamdeboba ekava,

televiziiT „gamovarda” da iyvira:

„Zvirfaso afxazebo, ruseTis

jinaze mandarins mTlianad Cven

viyidiT biujetis xarjzeo”.

_ maxsovs...

_ amis Tqma iyo da moskovma

maSinve gaxsna sazRvari. dResac

igive xdeba. daakvirdi: moskovi

moiTxovs, afxazeTis mTavrobam

neba darTos rusebs iyidon binebi

da saxlebi afxazeTSi. afxazebi

amas ar Tanxmdebian. Sesabamisad,

moskovma Seuwyvita finansuri

daxmareba da sakmaod mZime mdgomareobaSi

aRmoCndnen. amitom isev

mimarTaven igive gaiZverul „teqnologias”:

gamodian viTom Semrigebluri

gancxadebebiT qarTveli

„sasargeblo idiotebis” imedad,

raTa kvlav „rbilad daaSantaJon”

moskovi da finansuri daxmareba

ganaaxlebinon.

_ am xnis ganmavlobaSi ubral-

od valdebulnic ki viyaviT, am

gaiZveruli teqnologiis pragmatuli

pasuxi, formula mogve-

Zebna...

_ am gaiZverul „teqnologiaze”

arsebobs erTaderTi „kontrteqnologia”:

„gviCveneT ara

sityviT, aramed saqmiT, rom mar-

Tla gsurT Serigeba an morigeba

_ Tundac iseTi „patara” nabijiT,

rogoricaa enguris xidze avtobusis

daniSvna, raTa adamianebi ar

itanjebodnen an qarTul skoleb-

Si qarTul enaze swavlis ganaxleba”.

magram amas qarTveli „sasargeblo

idiotebi”, rasakvirvelia,

ar etyvian: oRond iqedan raime

„keTili sityva” gaigonon da...garwmuneb:

arc erT Tundac mcire

nabijs separatistebi ar gadadgamen,

raki es aRarc dasWirdebaT:

saubedurod, qarTvel „sasargeblo

idiotTa legioni” metismetad

mravalricxovani da amouwuravia.

_ isev momaval arCevnebsa da

mis savaraudo Sedegebs davubrundeT.

erTmniSvnelovnad ar-

sebobs imis molodini, rom imis

miuxedavad, Tu vin gaimarjvebs

arCevnebSi, Cven gveyoleba namdvilad

RirebulebiTi koalici-

uri mTavroba? RirebulebiTSi

ar vgululisxmob „ocnebasTan”

da enm-sTan afilirebuli erTka-

ciani partiebis koalicias, rac

CvenTvis TvalSi nacris Seyra

iqneba.

_ me imaSic ar var bolomde darwmunebuli,

rom „ocneba” waagebs

am arCevnebs. komikuria, rodesac

partiebi jer mougebeli arCevnebis

Sedegad „kuTvnil” Tanamdebobebs

iyofen. es saSinlad aRizianebs

xalxs da gansakuTrebiT im

„gadauwyvetel” amomrCevels,

romelic am qveyanaSi tradiciulad

mravalricxovania. magram Tu

„ocneba” marTlac damarcxda, ma-

Sin koalicia namdvilad gardauvalia,

radgan arc erT partias ar

eyofa xmebi, damoukideblad daakompleqtos

mTavroba. amitomac

vambob: erTaderTi opoziciuri

partia, visac awyobda „Sereuli”

sistema 73+77, iyo mixeil saakaSvilis

„nacionaluri moZraoba”,

radgan Tu igi moigebda „proporciul

arCevnebs”, TiTqmis yvela

„meocnebe” maJoritari maSinve

„gadaxteboda” mis gemze. dRes ki

mxolod 30 maJoritaria. maSasadame,

koalicia gardauvali iqneba

opoziciis gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi.

„ocnebas” rac Seexeba, mas

mxolod absoluturi gamarjveba

sWirdeba, radgan Tu odnav „saTuo”

gaxda, anu daaxloebT Tanabari

Sedegi iqna, maSinve atydeba

„gemidan gadamxtom arsebaTa tyapa-tyupi”.

bodiSi aseTi metaforisTvis.

_ dabolos, kidev erTxel

davazustoT: iqneba Tu ara am

arCevnebis SedegebisTvis gadamwyveti

saerTaSoriso legiti-

maciis sakiTxi?

_ aucileblad! rogorc yovelTvis.

oRond im daTqmiT, Tu Cem

mier zemoT xsenebuli da ZlivsmiRweuli

geopolitikuri „balansis”

darRvevad ar miiCneven ama

Tu im Sedegs dasavlur dedaqalaqebSi.

_ gmadlob, saintereso inter-

viusTvis. win marTlac rTuli

Semodgoma gvelis da kidev bevr-

jer mogviwevs msjeloba uamrav

Temaze.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

37

giorgi abaSiZe

38


areba unda misces. sxvaTa Soris,

mas Semdeg, rac koronakarantini moixsna, xelisuflebam ga-

amas mxolod mmarTveli ki ara,

`soflebSi

nacxada, rom pandemia saqarTvelos ise unda gamoeyenebina,

sxva partiebic akeTeben, anu

rogorc _ SesaZlebloba da am mxriv aqcenti Sida turizmis

„ocneba”, „nacionaluri moZraoganviTarebaze

gaakeTa, anu mmarTveli gundis warmomadgenba”

Tu „patriotTa aliansi”

lebma mosaxleobas mouwodes, rom saqarTvelos sxvadasxva

erTmaneTs piarSi ejibreboda da

regioni moenaxulebina da amiT turizmis seqtori gadaerCi-

celofnis parkebs arigebda, ma-

na, Tumca mowodeba, rogorc Cans, mowodebad darCa.

gram axla ratom Sewyvites? ra,

_ sxvaTa Soris, „ocnebam”

la, anu xelisuflebis Secvlas

yovel SemTxvevaSi, aWaris

umaRlesi sabWos wevri, deputati

merab bladaZe, „qronika+~s

eubneba, rom wels zRvis se-

zoni Cavarda. amis mizezad ki

Cveni respondenti imas asax-

elebs, rom xalxs fuli ar aqvs.

_ batono merab, ra xdeba?

aWaraSi, sakurorto sezoni

rogor midis?

_ aWaraSi sakurorto sezoni,

rogorc aseTi, ar arsebobs!

_ ratom ar arebobs? xelisu-

fleba irwmuneba, rom korona

ise unda gamoviyenoT, rogorc

SesaZlebloba da, minimum, Sida

turizimi ganvaviTaroT...

_ Sida turizmi im valebs, rac

tikuri sarCuli aqvs, anu ar-

Cevnebis win xalxi ufro metad

gaRaribdes da xuT-xuT kilo-

gram xaxvsa Tu kartofilze

gaxdes damokidebuli?

_ aseTi radikaluri ar viqnebi.

_ ratom ar iqnebiT?

_ vfiqrob, rom zedmeti sifrTxilea

gamoCenili, Tumca

SeiZleba, xuTi kilo kartofilis

faqtoric aris.

_ saerTod, aWaraSi sazoga-

doebrivi ganwyoba rogoria?

_ xalxSi xelisuflebis mimarT

Zalian negatiuri ganwyobaa

xalxi gaZRa?! piriqiT, situacia

ufro damZimda! SeiZleba, ar

damijeroT, magram ramdenime

Tvea, Cemi xelfasis naxevari daxmarebaze

midis _ nacnobebsa da

sanaTesavos zogs 50 lars va-

Zlev, zogs _ 10-s da zogsac _

20-s. xalxi ukiduresad gaWirvebul

mdgomareobaSia da elementarul

saWmels iTxovs!

_ ise, aWaraSi kriminali Tavs

rogor „grZnobs”?

_ am mxriv CvenTan normaluri

situaciaa. Cxubi ki xdeba xolme,

magram mkvlelobis ki ara, qurdobis

Sesaxebac karga xania, ar

umetes saarCevno olqSi maJori-

tarobis kandidatad Zveli saxe

waradgina. am mxriv gamonaklisi

arc aWaraa, sadac maJoritaro-

bis erT-erTi kandidati anzor

bolqvaZea. amaze xalxs rogori

reaqcia hqonda?

_ anzor bolqvaZes Tavisi amomrCeveli

hyavs. hoda, Cven rac

unda negatiurad vilaparakoT,

es kaci Tavis regionSi imarjvebs.

_ egeb, imitom imarjvebs, rom

administraciuli mxardaWera

aqvs?

_ swori ar iqneba, rom Tavi

win yovelTvis raRac movlena

uswrebda.

_ kerZod?

_ ai, magaliTad, gamsaxurdias

saxelmwifo gadatrialeba

moxda, SevardnaZis dros _

„vardebis revolucia”, saakaSvilis

wasvlaze ki „cixis kadrebma”

imoqmeda, anu Tu rame iseTi

movlena ar moxda, rac reJimis

Secvlas xels Seuwyobs, yovelTvis

xelisufleba gaimarjvebs!

ai, Tundac, cesko-s SexedeT,

sadac xelisuflebis mimdevrebi

yovelTvis arian da arvin

icis, isini ras akeTeben. mokled,

Tu rame iseTi movlena ar

moxda, rogoric, magaliTad,

xalxs bankebidan aqvs aRebuli,

„cixis kadrebi” iyo, ar mgonia,

merab bladaZe:

ar hyofnis! esec rom ara, Sida

rom es reJimi Seicvalos. yovel

turizmi isec ar iyo ganviTarebuli.

axla ki xalxs fuli ar

albaT, yvela pragmatulad

SemTxvevaSi, me ase mjera da,

aqvs da vin ra unda iSovos? mokled,

moazrovne adamiani ase fiqrobs!

Zalian cudi periodia _

_ ai, magaliTad, giorgi

pandemiam xalxs deda utira,

SaqaraSvilis mkvleloba iseTi

vals vali daemateba da ar vici,

`xalxSi xelisuflebis

saSineli movlena araa, romel-

ra iqneba. ise, axla zRvaze rom

ic „ocnebas” Secvlis?

gaxvideT, Zalian bevr adamians

_ ar mgonia.

naxavT, romelic pirdapir

mimarT negatiuri

_ ratom?

qviSaze wevs.

_ Tu daakvirdebiT, ojaxi

_ ratom?

imas, rasac opoziciurad ganwy-

ganwyobaa da ar vici,

_ imitom, rom Sezlongis

obili media ambobs, ewinaaRmdegeba.

_ Tqveni informaciiT, aWara-

_ SeiZleba, magram es mkvl-

eseni arCevnebis

Si turizmi ramdeni procentiT

eloba mxolod erTi ojaxis ki

Semcirda?

ara, ukve qveynis tragediaa. ho-

_ albaT, 90 procentiT. mase

da, batono merab, nuTu, ar

mogebas rogor

araa, televiziiT karg raRacebs

gaqvT gancda, rom Tqveni Svili,

rom aCveneben.

romelic quCaSi gadis, daucve-

_ batono merab, Tqven, rog-

lia?

apireben?!~

orc aWaris sakanonmdeblo or-

_ aseTi gancda, ki batono,

qiraobis fuli ar aqvs.

ganos deputati, rogor fiqr-

maqvs, magram „SaqaraSvilis

obT, saqarTvelos sazRvrebi

unda gaexsna, miT umetes, im fonze,

roca evrokavSirma, pand-

da ar vici, eseni arCevnebis mo-

gebas rogor apireben?! simarTle

gamigia!

_ rac Seexeba politsitua-

movityuoT.

_ Tavis motyueba ra SuaSia?

saqme” girgvlianis donis Tema

araa. mesmis, Tqven rasac mekiTxebiT,

magram me imas geubnebiT,

emiis miuxedavad, saqarTvelosa

giTxraT, didad arc maRel-

cias, yvelaze didi mxardaWera

_ xelisuflebis warmomad-

rasac SaqaraSvilis ambavze

da sxva qveynebsac sazRvrebi

gauxsna?

vebs, „ocneba” arCevnebs moigebs

Tu waagebs, magram xelisufleba

romel partias aqvs?

_ „nacionalebs” TavianTi stabiluri

geneli yovelTvis imarjvebs.

_ ratom?

xalxi laparakobs.

_ e. i., batono merab, imas

_ sazRvrebi, cxadia, unda gax-

yvelafers Zalian feradi ferebiT

amomrCeveli hyavT, _ xelisuflebis warmomad-

meubnebiT, rom xalxs „ocnebis”

sniliyo da xalxi Semosuliyo,

Torem korona ki ara, seqsisgan,

Turme, TveSi 50 aTasi adamiani

kvdeba. hoda, maSin seqsic avkrZaloT

da am qveyanaze aRaraferi

iqneba!

_ saqarTvelo, ase Tu ise,

uyurebs, magram ase araa.

_ sxvaTa Soris, Tavdapirve-

lad eqspertebic aRiarebdnen,

rom korona „ocnebis” mokavSired

iqca da amis wyalobiT mmar-

Tveli gundis reitingi gaizar-

da...

romelic maT ar Ralatobs!

_ sxva partiebs?

_ imis Tqma, rom „lelos”,

„ocnebas” Tu „patriotTa alianss”

stabiluri amomrCeveli

hyavs, Znelia.

genelia da administraciuli

resursi isea CarTuli, rom am

adamianebs gamarjveba ar uWirT!

Tu daakvirdebiT, bolo 30 weliwadSi

saqarTveloSi arCevnebiT

erTi xelisuflebac ar Secvli-

xelisuflebaSi mesame vadiT

darCena unda?

_ xalxs unda Tu ara, es sxva

Temaa.

_ sxva Tema ratomaa?

_ „ocneba” saxelisuflebo

partiaa da yvela variantSi gaim-

mwvane zonaa da, Tqveni azriT,

_ diax, ver davmalavT, rom

`sazRvrebi, cxadia, unda gaxsniliyo da xalxi

arjvebs.

xelisufleba sazRvrebs ratom

koronas winaaRmdeg brZola

Semosuliyo, Torem korona ki ara, seqsisgan,

_ aseTi darwmunebuli ratom

ar xsnis?

efeqtiani iyo da xelisuflebas

xarT, batono merab?

Turme, TveSi 50 aTasi adamiani kvdeba. hoda,

_ aba, ra giTxraT? xelisuflebis

sifrTxilis mesmis, rad-

SeiZleba iTqvas, rom am mxriv

rom saqarTveloSi iseTi movle-

aRaraferi iqneba!~

gan saSiSroeba arsebobs, magram saqarTvelom msoflio masStana

ar momxdara, rac xelisufle-

xalxmac dauWira mxari. amitom,

_ darwmunebuli imitom var,

maSin seqsic avkrZaloT da am qveyanaze

gadametebuli sifrTxilec ar

SeiZleba... sazRvrebi unda gaixsnas

da Cveulebrivi cxovreba

unda gagrZeldes. es pandemia,

rogorc Cans, wamsvleli arsad

araa da maSin bunagSi CaviketoT

da erT adgilas viyoT!

_ aWaris sakanonmdeblo or-

ganos winaSe sazRvrebis gaxsnis

sakiTxi ar dagiyenebiaT?

_ ara.

_ ratom?

_ jer erTi, sakonstitucio

ganxilvebi gvqonda. meorec, epidsituaciis

gamosworebas velodiT,

ai, sazRvrebi axla gaixsnebao,

magram veRar gavige, swormarTali

ra aris.

_ ise, xom ar geCvenebaT, rom

am sazRvrebis argaxsnas polibiT

kargi Sedegic aCvena, magram

weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos, ar

mgonia, rom sazRvrebis Caketvis

gagrZeleba swori iyos. sofleb-

Si warmoudgeneli siRaribea! sxvaTa

Soris, merebi Tu gamgeblebi

celofnis parkebiT rom darbodnen

da daxmarebas arigebdnen,

davcinodi.

_ ratom?

_ erTxel daxmarebas rom

daarigeb, amiT ra Seicvala? ra,

xalxs axla aRar uWirs Tu ra

xdeba?! es saZageli piarkampaniaa

da axlac vityvi, rogor SeiZleba,

qalaqis merebi celofnebiT

darbodnen da xalxs saWmels

urigebdnen! specialurad amisTvis

socialuri dacvis samsaxuri

arsebobs, romelmac xalxs damxbas

daazaralebda!

_ weRan miTxariT, soflebSi

xalxi SimSilobso da amaze meti

„movlena” raRa unda iyos?

_ diax, xalxi namdvilad Sim-

Silobs, magram Cemze kargad

iciT, arCevnebi rogor tardeba.

_ rogor tardeba?

_ rac SeiZleba, bevri koordinatori.

_ anu „ocneba” arCevnebs gaay-

albebs?

_ Cven rac unda paTetikurad

vilaparakoT, realoba aseTia _

TiTo sofelSi, minimum, 100 kordinatori

iqneba, TiToeuls xelfasi

150-dan 200 laramde eqneba

da yvelas miscemen davalebas,

rom TiTom, minimum, aTi mxardam-

Weri unda moiyvanos. mokled, es

38 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


warmoudgeneli siRaribea!~

koordinatorebi da aqtivistebi

yvelafers gaakeTeben, rom aTaTi

mxardamWeri miiyvanon. axla,

warmoidgineT, TiTo sofelSi 20

da 30 koordinatori da maT mier

miyvanili mxadamWerebis raodenoba

sakmaod bevri iqneba.

_ anu, Tqveni informaciiT,

koordinatoris jamagiri 150

laria?

_ diax, 150-dan iwyeba da 200

laramde adis. zogjer fuls

mravalSvilian ojaxebsac uxdian

da arCevnebi ase tardeba.

_ es xom mosyidvaa?

_ ra Tqma unda, mosyidvaa, magram

amas yvela partia akeTebs!

absoluturad yvela kanondamr-

Rvevia! televiziiT „gvaboleben”,

mosyidva ar SeiZlebao, Torem

amomrCevels yvela yidulobs,

miT umetes, roca amomrCevels

uWirs!

_ batono merab, rva wlis win,

roca emigraciidan dabrundiT,

erTi wuTiT Tu mainc uSvebdiT,

rom iseT saqarTveloSi mogiw-

evdaT cxovreba, rogorzec

axla melaparakebiT?

_ araviTar SemTxvevaSi! es

rom mcodnoda, saqarTveloSi

arasodes davbrundebodi!

_ mokled, emigraciidan dab-

runebas nanobT?

_ ra Tqma unda, vnanob! sxva-

Ta Soris, me im ramdenime adamianis

avangardSi viyavi, vinc re-

Jimi Secvala, magram sanacvlod

is miviRe, rom wina reJimis xalxi

`TiTo sofelSi, minimum, 100 kordinatori

iqneba, TiToeuls xelfasi 150-dan 200 laramde

eqneba da yvelas miscemen davalebas, rom TiTom,

minimum, aTi mxardamWeri unda moiyvanos.

mokled, es koordinatorebi da aqtivistebi

yvelafers gaakeTeben, rom aT-aTi mxardamWeri

miiyvanon. axla, warmoidgineT, TiTo sofelSi

20 da 30 koordinatori da maT

isev xelisuflebaSia. im adamianebma

ki, vinc TanamebrZolebad

mimaCndnen, sakuTari bednierebis

awyoba da TavianTi biujetis

gamdidreba daiwyes... qveyanaSi

saSineli meqrTameoba da „atkatebia”.

ai, magaliTad, erT magaliTs

getyviT: soflebSi wylis

reabilitacia, ase vTqvaT, Caatares.

am soflebSi wyali ar iyo,

milionobiT lari gadaixades,

magram wyali isev araa!

_ es qobuleTis raionis sof-

lebSi moxda?

_ diax. axali milebi gaiyvanes,

magram xalxs wyali isev ar aqvs!

yvelaze cudi ki, iciT, ra aris?

_ ra?

_ yvelaferi es nasesxebi fuliT

keTdeba _ Cveni qveynis sagareo

vali ukve ramdenime miliardamde

avida. hoda, am nasesxebi

fuliT ar jobia, rame warmoeba

rom Seqmnan da amiT mogebuli

fuliT raRacebi mere gaakeTon!

_ ise, wlevandel arCevnebSi

monawileobas gegmavT, batono

merab?

_ ar dagimalavT: SemoTavazeba

TiTqmis yvela partiidan

maqvs, magram im politikur mocemulobaSi,

romelic axlaa,

Cems adgils ver vxedav!

_ ratom ver xedavT?

_ unda gavide da amomrCeveli

movatyuo. es ki ar minda. amitom

arCevnebSi monawileobas,

albaT, ar miviReb!

_ sxvaTa Soris, bolo dRee-

bis erT-erTi mTavari „niusi”

isaa, rom riJvaZis mama aWaraSi

sportsmenebisgan

„zonder-

jgufebs” qmnis. amaze risi Tqma

SegiZliaT?

_ roca emigraciidan davbrundi,

iniciativiT gamovedi,

rom yvela dajgufeba, romelic

saakaSvilis dros arsebobda, samagaliTod

dasjiliyo. es precedenti

da magaliTi iqneboda,

rom saqarTveloSi „zonderjgufebis”

Seqmnas veRaravin gabedavda!

_ anu amiT adasturebT, rom

riJvaZis mama „zonderjgufebs”

marTla qmnis?

_ ara.

_ aba?

_ es Tbilisidan agorebulia.

_ Tbilisi ra SuaSia?

_ baTumSi vcxovrob da Cven-

Tan „zonderjgufebi” araa.

_ Tqven SeiZleba, ar iciT,

magram faqtia: Tavad is sports-

menebi laparakoben, romelTac

„zonderobas” sTavazobdnen.

_ ver getyviT... etyoba, raRac

gamomrCa. sxvaTa Soris, mTavrobis

Tavmjdomares fondi aqvs da

xalxi mec gamigzavnia, Tumca am

fondidan Tanxis gacema mxolod

masze araa damokidebuli.

_ aba, kidev viszea damokide-

buli?

_ jandacvis ministris werilsa

da forma 100-s iTxoven, anu

adamians raRac gamouvali mdgomareoba

unda hqondes. es tipuri

xulignuri ambavi iyo, romelic

undaT, rom politikurSi

gadazardon! Tu xelisufleba

sadme daaSavebs, Sansi araa, rom

davindo, magram Tu opozicia

daaSavebs da amis politikurSi

gadatanas Seecdeba, masac ar

davindob! Cemi trendi isaa, rom

simarTle unda vilaparako!

_ mokled, batono merab,

Tqveni ocnebebi daimsxvra?

_ Cemi ocnebebi ki ar daimsxvra,

afeTqda da daingra, magram

mebrZoli kaci var da momavlis

imedi maqvs. hoda, mainc, vibrZoleb,

rom Cems Svils evropuli

xedvisa da donis saqarTvelo

davutovo da ara iseTi klanuri,

rogoric dResaa!

`Cemi Svili sus-is TanamSromelma daaWerina~

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rogorc msjavrdadebulis deda nunu

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Svilis dakaveba sus-is TanamSromelT-

an konfliqts ukavSirdeba:

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noembers daiWires. im dRes, roca daiWires

da amis Sesaxeb gamomZiebelma satelefono

zariT miTxra, Zalian gamikvirda

daWeris sababi, radgan Cems Svils

SeZenili hqonda mobiluri da misgan msgavsi

saqcieli warmoudgeneli iyo. sanam

daiWerdnen, ramdenime kviriT adre

mobiluri gadacvala da Tan fuli daamata,

am formiT SeiZina axali telefoni.

taqsis mZRoli ki ambobs, rom Cemma Svilma

telefoni mohpara. Cemma Svilma policias

dakavebisTanave uTxra, _ ganaxebT

adgils, sadac telefoni SeviZine da SegiZliaT,

videoCanawerebi amoiRoT, visgan

viyide mobilurio. Tumca am dromde

es videoCanawerebi ar amouRiaT.

_ ras ambobs taqsis mZRoli?

_ taqsis mZRoli sasamarTloze acxadebda,

100%-iT maxsovs, rom kaxa iyoo.

rogorc is acxadebs, naZaladevis raion-

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Camijda manqanaSi da iqve, maxlobel

quCaze Camovida, swored am periodSi mo-

mpara mobilurio. Tumca Cemi Svili ambobs,

rom im dRes taqsiSi saerTod ar

mjdara. Tanxa ar mqonda da advokati 2-

3 kviris Semdeg aviyvaneT. advokati cdilobda

taqsis mZRolTan dakavSirebas,

Tumca igi mobilurs ar pasuxobda. Semdeg

Cemma siZem gadawyvita misi naxva, rom

gaerkvia, sad naxa kaxa da ra mimarTulebiT

waiyvana, rom im teritoriaze kamerebi

amogveRo da gvenaxa, namdvilad kaxam

imgzavra Tu ara im dRes misi manqaniT.

xom SeiZleboda, rom SeSloda taqsis

mZRols? sabolood, Cemi siZe Sexvda

taqsis mZRols, romelmac uTxra: „Sen

xom ar ginda, Senc gagxvio SarSi kaxas-

Tan erTado? bevri axlobeli myavs da

SemiZlia, SarSi gagxvioo”. taqsis mZRolis

es muqara garkveul eWvebs badebs.

_ ra mtkicebulebebia Tqveni Svilis

winaaRmdeg?

_ arsebobs eqspertizis daskvna, romlis

mixedviTac Cemi Svili taqsiSi ijda,

magram kaxa ar cnobs Tavs damnaSaved da

arc imas adasturebs, rom im dRes taqsiSi

ijda. is, rom kaxas mobilurSi yvelanairi

informacia waSlilia, esec

garkveul eWvs badebs. taqsis mZRolma

Cems siZesTan saubrisas Tqva, es telefoni

Cemi gardacvlili Zmisgan saxsovari

iyoo, sasamarTlo procesze ki Tqva,

rom Cemma Svilma miyidao. urTierTsawinaaRmdegod

saubrobda. mosamarTlemac

ki aRniSna, _ ar momewona taqsis mZRolis

saubari, Tumca Tqven mtkicebulebebi

gWirdebaT, rom Tqveni Svili damna-

Save ar ariso.

nunu miqaZe:

`CemTvis ucnobia

am pirovnebis

vinaoba, garkvevis

procesSi var~

_ ras ukavSirebT Tqveni Svilis daW-

eras?

_ CemTvis, rogorc cnobilia, mas konfliqti

hqonda saxelmwifo usafrTxoebis

samsaxuris TanamSromelTan, romelic

damuqrebia, _ ai, naxav, cixeSi Cagayudebo.

momxdars swored amas vukavSireb.

rogorc Cans, sus-is TanamSromelma Tavisi

sityva Seasrula da Cemi Svili misi

damsaxurebiT moxvda cixeSi, swored man

daaWerina. CemTvis ucnobia am pirovnebis

vinaoba, garkvevis procesSi var. amis

Sesaxeb Cemi Svili, jerjerobiT, ar

saubrobs. is protestis ukidures formas

mimarTavs, Tve-naxevris ganmavlobaSi

SimSilobda da piri hqonda amokerili.

aravin miaqcia yuradReba. kaxas sTxovdnen,

rom danaSauli eRiarebina, Tumca rac

ar Caudenia, is ratom unda aRiaros?!

_ rogor mimdinareobda sasamarTlo

procesebi?

_ sasamarTlo rom unda yofiliyo,

konkretuli TariRi iyo CaniSnuli, Tumca

Cems Svils uTxres, gadaidoo. roca

advokati mivida masTan, gakvirvebulma

hkiTxa, _ sasamarTlo process ratom ar

daeswario? razedac kaxam upasuxa, _ miTxres,

rom gadaidoo. mosamarTlisTvis ki

uTqvamT, TiTqos Cemma Svilma procesze

daswrebaze uari ganacxada. meorejerac

igive ganmeorda, ris Semdegac advokatma

saCivari dawera, Tumca, jerjerobiT,

reagireba ar yofila. sabolood, sasamarTlom

Cems Svils 7-wliani patimroba

miusaja. kaxas janmrTelobasTan dakav-

Sirebuli problemebi aqvs, xali amokve-

Tes da yovel 6 TveSi saWiroebs konsultacias.

amasTanave, mas aqvs fsoriazis

mZime forma da sanam advokatma ar

moiTxova misTvis wamlebis Setana, yuradReba

aravin miaqcia.

_ gegmavT Tu ara gasaCivrebas?

_ ukiduresad mZime ekonomiur mdgomareobaSi

var, Sesabamisad, advokatisTvis

Tanxis gadaxda Zalian miWirs.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

39

infrastruqturuli proeqtebi did xania, Cveni qveynis

problemad iqca _ is, romelic ar xorcieldeba da isic,

romelic daproeqtebuli, damuSavebuli da ganxorcielebi-

sTvis momzadebulia.


qeTevan enuqiZis gverdi

ra tipis problemebs aRar vxvdebiT!

mravalferovnebisTvis erT

saintereso da sayuradRebo ambavs

SemogTavazebT.

ambavs imis Sesaxeb, Tu rogor

vatanT mewyers milionebs Cvens

arcTu mdidar qveyanaSi.

2020 wlis 9 marts saqarTvelos

saavtomobilo gzebis departamentma

saxelmwifo Sesyidvebis

saagentos saSualebiT gamoacxada

Sesyidva nomriT

NAT200005601 Sidasaxelmwifoebrivi

mniSvnelobis baTumi (angisa)

_ axalcixis saavtomobilo

gzis xulo-zarzmis monakveTis

(loti 1.1), xulo-goderZis uReltexilis

monakveTis sareabilitacio/sarekonstruqcio

samuSaoebisTvis.

winadadebebis miReba dasrulda

11 maiss, xolo xelSekruleba

gaformda 9 ivniss.

sawyisi fasi iyo 1827349 lari.

monawileobda 4 kompania da

gaimarjva kompania „mamisonma”

14581880 lariT.

kompaniasTan xelSekrulebis

gaformebamde saproeqto kompania

BT Consult-ma 2016 wels

moamzada proeqti saavtomobilo

gzebis departamentis dakveTiT.

proeqtSi gaTvaliswinebuli

iyo zeda sayrdeni kedlis mowyoba

terameSis sistemiT km 3+570

gamartivebuli Sesyidvis xelSekrulebaSi

ewera iyo, rom

angariSsworeba xorcieldeboda

Sesrulebuli samuSaoebisa da

xorvatiaSi registrirebuli kompaniis

filialis, „ss instituti

igh, saaqcio sazogadoeba

samoqalaqo mSeneblobis kvlevebisa

da ganviTarebis sakiTxebSi”,

dadasturebuli moculobebis

da zedamxedvelobis Sesabamisad.

„ss instituti igh, saaqcio sazogadoeba

samoqalaqo mSeneblobis

kvlevebisa da ganviTarebis

sakiTxebSi” 2016 wels dafuZnebuli

kompaniaa, romlis mflobelia

ruseTis moqalaqe robert

petrosiani.

Seqmnilia forsmaJoruli situaciis

gamo. Sesyidvebis saagentos

Tavmjdomare levan razmaZes

2018 wlis 22 marts departamentis

maSindelma Tavmjdomare

giorgi seTuriZem mimarTa gancxadebiT,

mieca Tanxmoba, raTa Sidasaxelmwifoebrivi

mniSvnelobis

baTumi(angisa)-axalcixis saavtomobilo

gzis monakveTze dazianebuli

miwis vakisis aRdgenis

samuSaoebisa da am samuSaoebTan

dakavSirebuli saproeqto momsaxurebis

gawevis ufleba mieca

gamartivebuli Sesyidvis saSualebiT.

am samuSaoebis Rirebulebam

Seadgina TiTqmis 2 milion-naxe-

rulebuli gabionis kedlebis

demontaJis ufleba da mis nacvlad

Seasrulos proeqtiT gaTvaliswinebuli

valdebulebebi.

im SemTxvevaSi, Tuki Sps „mamisons”

miecema 2018 wels aSenebuli

gabionis sayrdeni kedelis

demontaJis saSualeba, e. i. am

proeqti BTConsulti-sgan da stiqiis

gamosworebis samuSaoebis

ganxorcieleba SesaZlebeli iyo

am proeqtis Sesabamisad, anu winaswar

yofiliyo gaTvaliswinebuli

ZiriTadi gzis reabilitaciis

proeqtis saWiroebebi.

Tuki departamenti ar dasTa-

is winaSe. mizezi cxadia: Sps

„mamisoni” veRar SeZlebs mis kontraqtSi

gaTvaliswinebuli samuSoebis

Rirebulebis, 3,421,831

laris, aTvisebas, rac mTliani

kontraqtis 23%-ze mets Seadgens.

ra Sedegs viRebT sabolood?

1. zaraldeba kompania, romelic

molaparakebebis procesSi

kargavs dros da, ra Tqma unda,

resursebs. Tu kedlis dangrevis

gadawyvetilebas miiReben, Tavis

mxriv, es ra zarals ganapirobebs,

am etapze, amis mxolod

hipoTeturad warmodgena Sei-

Zleba, magram arc es warmodgenaa

mewyers milionebic (Ca)moaqvs

3+970 monakveTze. kerZod, gzis

marcxena, zeda mxares saWirod

miiCnies arsebuli ferdis CamoWra,

raTa gzis gabariti Cateuliyo,

xolo gzis marjvena, qveda

mxares, sadac gadis mdinaris xeoba,

proeqti ar iTvaliswinebda

aranairi nagebobis mowyobas.

Sps „mamisonis” xelSekruleba-

Si fiqsirdeba xarjTaRricxva,

romlis #231.01-#232.03 punqtebSi

aRniSnulia, rom am samuSaos

jamuri Rirebulebaa

2,899,857.14 lari dRg-s gareSe da

3,421,831 lari dRg-s CaTvliT.

magram aris erTi Zalian mniSvnelovani

garemoeba, romelic am

proeqtsa da Sps „mamisonis” xelSekrulebas

Soris kavSirs

arTulebs da kiTxvebs aCens.

2018 wels gzis am monakveTze

Camowva mewyeri, romelmac daaziana

da Caketa gza.

gzebis departamentma am problemis

mosagvareblad, gadaudebeli

samuSaoebis farglebSi,

sruliad kanonierad da gasagebi

mizezebiT, gamartivebuli Sesyidvis

wesiT, xelSekruleba gaaforma

erT-erT adgilobriv kompaniasTan

(Sps „iberia j”, romlis

mflobelia jambul TavarTqilaZe)

da am monakveTze ganaxorciela

gzis marcxena (zeda)

mxares da marjvena (qveda) mxares,

mdinaresTan, sayrdeni kedlebis

mowyoba gabionis yuTebiT da

Semdeg gzis savali nawilis aRdgena.

vari lari.

2020 wels, xelSekrulebis

gaformebis Semdeg, Sps „mamisonma”

daiwyo samSeneblo samuSaoebi

km 3+970-dan ukana mimarTulebiT.

teqnikurad samuSaoebis

pirvel etapze aucileblad unda

CamoWriliyo ferdi gzis gasaganiereblad,

rogorc amas iTxovda

proeqti.

samuSaoebis warmoebisas gairkva,

rom 2018 wels gadaudebeli

samuSaoebis farglebSi aSenebuli

gabionis sayrdeni kedeli mowyobilia

zustad im adgilas, sadac

axlandeli proeqtiT gaTvaliswinebulia

ferdis CamoWra,

gzis gaganiereba da terameSis

kedlis mowyoba.

aqve aRsaniSnavia, rom 2018

wels gadaudebeli samuSoebis

farglebSi, gzis marjvena (qveda,

mdinaris mxare) mxares mowyobili

sayrdeni kedeli xels ar uSlis

„mamisonis” mier Sesasrulebel

samuSaoebs, radgan amJamindeli

proeqti ar iTvaliswinebs

gzis marjvena mxares raime nagebobebis

mowyobas.

am droisaTvis „mamisonma” samuSaoebis

warmoeba SeaCera, vinaidan

obieqtze arsebuli situacia

ar aZlevs saSualebas, ganaxorcielos

xelSekrulebiT da

proeqtiT gaTvaliswinebuli

valdebulebebi. rac kidev ufro

sainteresoa, mimdinareobs molaparakeba

gzebis departamentTan,

raTa mas mieces 2018 wels Ses-

kedlis mowyoba warmoadgenda

aramiznobriv xarjs. aravin daobs,

rom samuSaoebi Sesrulda

gadaudebeli aucileblobiT,

stiqiiT gamowveuli zianis aRmosafxvrelad.

saqme isaa, rom gzebis

departaments am droisTvis

ukve hqonda miRebuli ZiriTadi

nxmdeba am kedlis demontaJs,

maSin arsebuli gzis gabariti ar

iZleva imis saSualebas, rom axali

gzis mSenebloba ganxorcieldes

standartebis Sesabamisad,

vinaidan gzis sigane ar iqneba

sakmarisi, ris gamoc mTliani

proeqti dadgeba CaSlis safrTx-

manugeSebeli;

2. tenderi CaSlis pirasaa, es

ki imas niSnavs, rom aravin icis,

rodis dasruldeba gza, romelic

unda dasrulebuliyo wels.

gza, romelsac elis mTiani aWaris

mosaxleoba da amis Sesaxeb

Tavad sagzao departamentmac

araerTxel gaamaxvila yuradReba,

rodesac gamartivebuli Sesyidvis

uflebisTvis mimarTa Sesyidvebis

saagentos. xalxi, romelic

fuls ixdis biujetSi, ver

miiRebs im sikeTes, romelsac

elis da, zogadad, risTvisac

qiraobs xelisuflebas. diax,

qiraobs, Tumca Cvens Cinovnkebs

xSirad aviwydebaT es martivi

WeSmariteba;

3. ukve dazaralda saxelmwifoc:

gamartivebuli SesyidviT

gadaxdili 2.5 milioni lari,

faqtobrivad, gadayrilia.

kiTxva ki mxolod erTi rCeba:

vin arian is pirebi, romlebic

pasuxismgeblobas aiReben am tipis

Secdomebze, gadacdomebze,

TviTnebobasa Tu SesaZlo da

winaswar gaTvlil korufciis

riskze, romelic yovel konkretul

SemTxvevaSi upasuxod rCeba?

Tavis mxriv, yvela agebs pasuxs:

saxelmwifo im kanonmdeblobisTvis,

romelic misma mesveurebma

Seqmnes; kompania _ aravin

icis, risTvis; yvela, magram

ara isini, vinc uSvebs Secdomas,

an sCads danaSauls.

40

40 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


amomrCevlis mosyidvis nacadi xerxi

qobuleTSi 5 agvistos „qarT-

xviCa mamulaZe

ulma ocnebam” mosaxleoba kitr-

iT, pomidvriTa da mwvaniliT

daasaCuqra. informacia amis Sesaxeb „erTiani nacionaluri

moZraobis” qobuleTis sakrebulos deputatma bondo

TedoraZem gaavrcela.

„qronika+~ deputat bondo

TedoraZes daukavSirda:

_ batono bondo, SegiZliaT

gviTxraT, ra moxda qobuleT-

Si 5 agvistos da SeafasoT

momxdari faqti?

_ arCevnebis moaxloebasTan

erTad xelisufleba yoveldRiurad

cdilobs amomrCevlis mosyidvas.

rac ar unda samwuxaro

iyos, „qarTulma ocnebam”

biZina ivaniSvilis xelmZRvanelobiT

moaxerxa, rom jer sakuTari

mosaxleoba gaeRaribebina

da Semdeg igi kartofiliTa

da xaxviT moesyida. Tumca, ro-

`qarTuli ocneba~ qobuleTSi kitrs,

pomidorsa da mwvanils arigebs

gorc Cans, wels meniu Seicvala

da aRniSnuli bostneuli

kitrma da pomidorma Caanacvla.

_ visi xelmZRvanelobiT

darigda kitri da pomidori?

_ samwuxaroa, rom am mosyidvaSi

sabiujeto saxsrebi ixarjeba,

romelic yvela moqalaqis

sakuTrebaa da ara _ „qarTuli

ocnebis”. samarcxvinoa, saxelisuflebo

partiis aqtivistebs

Stabis xelmZRvaneli mirian qa-

TamaZe avalebdes kitrisa da

pomidvris (dampali) darigebas

da amis sanacvlod mSier Tanamoqalaqeebs

sTxovdes piradobisa

da telefonis nomrebs.

ismis kiTxva, _ piradobisa da

telefonis nomrebis moTxovnis

gareSe darigeba (Tu es socialuri

programaa) ratom ar Sei-

Zleba da aseve saxelmwifo programiT

gansaxorcielebel proeqts

ratom ar axlavs beneficiarTa

winaswar gansazRvruli

wre? swored aRniSnuli garemoeba

da msgavsi samarcxvino

qmedeba pirdapir adasturebs

qobuleTis municipalitetSi

„qarTuli ocnebis” maJoritarobis

kandidat zaal miqelaZisa

da „qarTuli ocnebis” Stabis

xelmZRvanel mirian qaTamaZis

mier amomrCevlis mosyidvas.

xelisuflebas sxva gza aRar

darCa. xalxma unda icodes, rom

amomrCevelis mosyidvaSi biZina

ivaniSvilis arc erTi TeTri ar

ixarjeba, aramed iyvlifeba saxelmwifos

biujeti, romelic

yvela partias, yvela moqalaqes

Tanabrad ekuTvnis da is ar aris

„qarTuli ocnebis” sakuTreba.

SegaxsenebT: es SemTxveva pirveli

ar gaxlavT, roca „qarTuli

ocneba” winasaarCevnod amomrCevlis

mosyidvas cdilobs.

xelisuflebam 2019 wels marneulSi

moqalaqeebs 3 litri

zeTi, brinji, xaxvi da kartofili

dauriga.

xviCa mamulaZe

„qronika+~ deputatobis erT-erT

kandidat laura takiZes esaubra:

_ qalbatono laura, ratom gadaw-

yviteT politikaSi mosvla?

_ iuristebs profesiac gvaqvs da Semosavalic.

politikaSi imitom movdivarT,

rom es diskriminaciuli da tiranuli

kanonebi SevcvaloT. garda amisa,

2012-2016 wlebis CaTvliT aqtiurad

viyavi CarTuli „qarTuli ocnebis” mxardamWer

programebSi da vfiqrob, bevri

energia da nervebi maqvs daxarjuli

arCevnebis periodSi. ver warmoidgenT,

Tu ramdeni sibinZure davinaxe am drois

manZilze. vgulisxmob 2012-2016 wlebs,

rogor iyo CarTuli saxelmwifo usafrTxoebis

samsaxuri ama Tu im oponentis

„gafuWebis” saqmeSi. Zalian vnanob,

rom odesRac „qarTuli ocnebis” aqtiuri

mxardamWeri viyavi.

aWaraSi moRvawe 5 advokati politikur par-

tia „qarTvel nacionalistTa erTobis” saxeliT

baTumSi deputatobas apirebs.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

_ Semdeg ra moxda?

_ maT sibinZureebSi rom ar miviRe

monawileoba, Cem winaaRmdeg msgavsi me-

TodebiT zianis moyeneba scades da yvelagan

damblokes.

_ konkretulad, vin mogayenaT

ziani?

_ Cemive usafrTxoebidan gamomdinare am

kiTxvaze pasuxisgan Tavs Sevikaveb. erTi

konkretuli pirovneba araa, ramdenimea,

romelTa Txovna ar Sevasrule, anu is sibinZure,

rac maT hqondaT Cafiqrebuli Tavisive

gundis wevrebis mimarT. mova dro da

aucileblad visaubreb am Temaze vrclad

da pirovnebebsac specialurad „qronika+”-

isTvis eqskluziurad davasaxeleb.

_ ra iqneba Tqveni partiis ZiriTa-

di mimarTuleba?

_ ZiriTadi mimarTuleba aris kanonproeqtebi:

ramdenime arsebuli kanonproeqtis

Secvla, romelic Cveni sazogadoebisTvis

miuRebelia. is ar aris

morgebuli xalxze. Cven miviRebT

xalxze orientirebul kanonebs.

_ ra Sansebi gaqvT?

laura takiZe:

`qarTuli

ocnebis~

sibinZureebi

rom ar

Sevasrule,

yvelgan

damblokes~

_ ar gvaqvs imis iluzia, rom umravlesobiT

movalT parlamentSi, magram,

vfiqrob, ramdenime adamianic sakmarisi

iqneba Cveni partiidan parlamentSi,

rom moqmedi mavne kanonebi gavauqmoT!

41


qarTuli politikis simaxinje da brwyinvaleba

saqarTvelo is saxelmwifoa,

koka wereTeli

sadac sekularizmi deklarirebulia,

magram mis principebs, pirvel

rigSi, is adamianebi arRveven, romelTac misi dacva eva-

lebaT, anu politikosebi.

eklesiis nawilSi, saqarTvelos

marTlmadidebeli eklesiis konteqstSi,

yvelaferi gasagebia: maT

sulac ar epitnavebaT sekularizmi

da Teokratias mieswrafvian.

absoluturad gasagebia, Tu

ras akeTebs da risTvis ibrZvis

eklesia saarCevno periodebs

Soris. magram isic xom TvalnaTelia,

Tu ra xdeba winasaarCevno

periodSi sapatriarqos, rogorc

saqarTvelos marTlmadidebeli

eklesiis administraciuli organos

kuluarebSi?! arCevnebis Semdeg

eklesiis mier miRebuli dividendebis,

benefitebis safuZvelze

TvalnaTelia, Tu ra garigebebi

ideboda sapatriarqoSi

winasaarCevnod. imasac xom naTeli

efineba xolme, roca RvTismsaxurni

winasaarCevno periodSi

Cveulebriv agitatorebad da RmerTis

saxeliT moZaladeebad

iqcevian. isini ganwyobebs qmnian

da arCevnebis wina dRemde

vaWroben xolme. axla Tavi davaneboT

eklesias, sapatriarqos,

romelsac sakuTari pragmatuli

amocana aqvs, miitacos rac Sei-

Zleba meti xelisufleba an gavlena

xelisuflebaze da meti Zalaufleba

hqondes. davsvaT martivi

kiTxva, _ vin aris am Zalauflebis

mitacebaSi misi yvelaze

myari dasayrdeni partniori?

visTan vaWroben isini? ra Tqma

unda, politikosebi da politikuri

jgufebi, romlebic dasavlel

partniorebTan yels iRereben

xolme, rom saqarTvelo sekularuli

saxelmwifoa.

da axla swored maT minda, mivmarTo:

romel sekularizmze mesaubrebiT

saqarTveloSi, gansakuTrebiT

„pradvinuti” partiebi

da politikosebi, Riad da

farulad rom darbixarT sapatriarqoSi

momaval arCevnebSi mxardaWeris

mosapoveblad da

kurTxevisTvis?!

me da CemisTanebma Tu ar mogeciT

xma da xeli Tu ar gaanZrieT

Tavad, RmerTi verafers giSveliT.

miT ufro ver giSveliT

cru kerpebi, romlebic imas fiqroben,

rogor gamoglijon xelisuflebebs

meti Zalaufleba da

meti garantiebi, moipovon meti

gavlena. sabolood aRmoCndeba

xolme, rom am garigebebis Sedegad

Cven vziandebiT _ qarTveli

xalxi (religiuri da eTnikuri

kuTvnilebis miuxedavad), saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebi. Cven gvarTmevT

miwebs, qonebas, sxva simdidreebs

da aZlevT eklesias an pirTa

jgufs, romelic am qonebas

gankargavs da Cven xarjze mdidrdeba.

ar aris RmerTi iq, sadac Tqven

ggoniaT, rom religiuri lobistebi

gyavT. Tan imaT, visac

kuds uqicinebT, RmerTi TvaliT

rom ar hyavT nanaxi. gasagebia,

ubralod ar ician, ra aris ufali

da arc misi swavlebis Sesaxeb

smeniaT rame. isic gaiTvaliswineT,

rom maT lamis oriaTaswlovani

mexsiereba da memkvidreobi-

Toba aqvT im instituciis xarjze,

sadac TavSesafari ipoves. memkvidreobiToba

da mexsiereba Tqven

rom saerTod ar iciT, ra aris da

rogorc ki xelisuflebaSi aRmoCndebiT

xolme, winamorbedisas

yvelafers anadgurebT. isini ase

ar iqcevian. metic: Tqvenze gam-

Wriaxeni da gonierni arian da Tu

vinme akeTebs am qveyanaSi politikas,

Tan warmatebulad, es mxolod

sapatriarqo da misi

garemocvaa. swored Tqveni maamemlobiTa

da farisevlobiT, pativcemulo

politikosebo, saqarTvelo

ar aris absoluturad

(metwilad) sekularuli saxelmwifo

da, realurad (araformalurad),

impulsuri Teokratiuli

mmarTvelobis mqone saxelmwifoa,

albaT ufro qveyana. impulsuri

imitom, rom maT mudam scenaze

yofna jer ar awyobT. jer, magram

Tu Sansi miecaT, ise gaganadgureben,

Tvals ar daaxamxameben.

Tumca maSin, albaT, politikosebis

umetesoba anaforas CaicvamT.

winasaarCevno periodSi politikosebis,

politikuri partieb-

isa da sapatriarqos, rogorc

saqarTvelos marTlmadidebeli

eklesiis mmarTveli administraciuli

organos urTierTobebis

Sesaxeb sakuTari mosazrebe-

bi „qronika+~-s Teologma guram

lursmanaSvilma gauziara:

_ ganviTarebul qveynebSi, ai,

iseTebSi, romlebsac ukve wlebia,

SevnatriT, arCevnebis moaxloebasTan

erTad izrdeba memarjvene

Tu memarcxene ideologiuri partiebis

debatebi, sja-baasi saarCevno

programaze, ekonomikis ganviTarebis

gegmaze, kamaTebi qveynis

sagareo kurssa da a. S. da am

yvelafers stabiluri xasiaTi

aqvs. winasaarCevno situacia Cven-

Tanac „stabiluria”, axlac is

xdeba, rac wlebia, oRond, ganvi-

Tarebuli qveynebisgan gansxvavebiT,

CvenTan, arCevnebis moaxloebasTan

erTad, programebze msjeloba

ki ar imatebs, aramed is, Tu

romeli politikosi romels „miaswrebs”

sapatriarqoSi da Taflis

sanTliTa Tu mavedrebeli gamometyvelebiT,

sad gadaiRebs

suraTs. erTi didi kaci ambobda,

oRond sxva Temaze: „wreze ki ar

vtrialebT, aramed vsrialebTo”.

aqac igive situaciaa. ar aqvs mniSvneloba,

politikosi qristiania,

aTeisti, marTlmadidebeli Tu,

saerTod, agnostikosi, sapatriarqoSi

viziti da „dalocva” saar-

Cevno procesis ganuyofeli nawilia.

_ geTanxmebi, Tumca am politikur,

me vityodi, maxinj poli-

tikur TamaSSi xom sapatriarqoc

monawileobs?

_ da ras verCiT mas? sapatriarqos

xom sakuTari interesebi

aqvs?

_ daakonkrete, Tu SeiZleba.

_ sapatriarqo saqarTveloSi,

albaT, yvelaze kargad „erkveva”,

Tu rogor unda gamovides mSralad

nebismieri tipis xelisufal-

Ta mmarTvelobidan. am situacias

Tavis sasikeTod iyenebs da ki gaxlavT

yvelaze gavleniani instituti.

_ aqve vaRiaroT, rom sazoga-

doebis arcTu umniSvnelo nawili

saerTod ar aqcevs amas yuradRebas

im konteqstSi, rogoradac

Sen an me vmsjelobT. mas mi-

aCnia, rom es aris aucilebloba

_ muxlis moyra patriarqisTvis

da xarkis gadaxda sapatriarq-

osTvis. anu politreligiuri

garigeba normalurad miaCniaT.

Tu maincdamainc negativze vi-

saubrebT, „ganaTlebulebi” metwilad

politikosebs kicxaven ase-

Ti qmedebebisTvis.

_ viRac SeiZleba zereled

uyurebs am Temas da miaCnia, rom

amgvari farisevloba mxolod

qarTul politikur speqtrs azianebs.

ara, batono, ase, umTavresad,

eklesia ziandeba da amgvari

eklesia ramdenad warmatebiT dadis

qristes gzaze, SeuiaraRebeli

TvaliTac kargad Cans. amqveynad

marTlmadidebeli eklesiis

daniSnuleba umTavresad isaa, rom

evqaristia aRasrulos da qmnili

samyaro uqmnels daukavSiros, ama-

Si vlindeba misi identoba da es

romelime Tanamedrove Teologis

axirebidan ki ara, qristes swavlebidan

gamomdinareobs, romelmac,

erTi mxriv, eklesias pirdapir

mouwoda, rom saeklesio da

sasuliero Zalaufleba erTmaneTisgan

mkafiod unda gaemijna da,

meore mxirv, aseve ucxadesad gvianderZa,

rom eklesiam mTavari

yuradReba evqaristiis aRsrulebaze

unda gaamaxvilos, raTa

qriste moixsenios. roca es tendencia

icvleba, eklesia sakuTar

identobas azianebs da rogorc

sxva drosac gviTqvams, Cveulebriv

konvertorad iqceva, romel-

Sic winasaarCevnod raRac dovlaTs

CauSveben, radgan Semdgom-

Si man sakuTari eleqtoratis meSveobiT

sasurvel politikur kandidats

dauWiros mxari, raTa misi

xelisuflebaSi mosvlis SemTxvevaSi,

sakuTari gavlenebi da finansebi

(rac erTmaneTis pirdapirproporciulia)

maqsimalurad

ganimtkicos. amgvar sistemaSi xedavT

qristes? me piradad _ vera.

_ Tumca politikuri liderebis

voiaJi sapatriarqoSi, Ziri-

Tadad, ase ifuTeba: „moinaxula”,

„estumra”. es xom adamianis Tavis-

ufali arCevania, vis moinaxulebs

da vis estumreba. is ar aris ama-

Si SezRuduli.

_ Tavisufleba, ra Tqma unda,

gadaadgilebis SeuzRudavobasac

gulisxmobs, Sesabamisad, nebismier

adamians uproblemod SeuZlia,

sxva adamiani moinaxulos, estumros

_ ganurCevlad misi politikuri

Tu socialuri statusisa,

magram am yvelafers Tavis saxeli

davarqvaT.

_ risTvis apireb saxelis dar-

qmevas?

_ rodesac aseTi monaxuleba

da Tan sajaro mxolod imitom

sruldeba, rom eleqtoratze gavlena

moaxdinos, es aris farisevloba,

rac qristians ar SeSvenis.

_ politikosebisTvis es qme-

`sapatriarqo saqarTveloSi, albaT, yvelaze

kargad èrkveva~, Tu rogor unda gamovides

mSralad nebismieri tipis xelisufalTa

mmarTvelobidan. am situacias Tavis

sasikeTod iyenebs da ki gaxlavT yvelaze

gavleniani instituti~

guram lursmanaSvili:

àm yvelafris

Secvlas aucileblad

politikuri da

samoqalaqo neba

sWirdeba~

deba PR teqnologiis nawilia. an

saxelmwifoSi, sadac Cven vcxovrobT,

politikuri eTika mosTx-

ovo politikoss, cota ar iyos,

umaduri saqmea, radgan ar arseb-

obs. aq xom mTavari slogani isaa,

_ rasac vakeTeb, yvelaferi kar-

gia.

_ mesmis, magram Cven vimsjeloT

sworad.

_ anu?

_ saxelmwifos umTavresi

sazrunavi moqalaqe unda iyos,

eklesiisTvis es moqalaqe qristes

xatad da msgavsad Seqmnili adamiania.

axla sxva kuTxidan SevxedoT

da zemoT moyvanili SemTxvevebi

imis sailustraciod gamoviyenoT,

Tu rogor uyurebs saxelmwifo

da eklesia mis moqalaqesa da

mrevlis wevrs. realurad viRebT

viTarebas, rom adamiani saxelmwifosTvis

srulfasovani moqalaqe

ki ara, TavisuflebawarTmeuli

arsebaa, romlis yidvac warmatebiT

SeiZleba, Tuki gavlenian instituts

moTaflav. sapatriarqos

SemTxvevaSi ki misi mrevlis wevric

aseve Tavisuflebis armqone

adamiania, romelic garkveul ierarqebs

saSualebas aZlevs, rom

politikosebis winaSe misiT imanipuliron.

_ magram aq xom mTavari ara

mxolod am, pirobiTad, ori sub-

ieqtis garigebaa, aramed is, rom am

garigebis Sedegad mrevli da mo-

qalaqeebi Zalian iafad iyidebian.

_ es yvelaferi Caketili da

mojadoebuli wrea, saidan gamosavalic,

am etapze, vaRiaroT, rom

ar Cans. is, rac ruseTis Sesabamisi

samsaxurebis mier, Cveni mentalitetidan

gamomdinare, wlebis

manZilze Tanmimdevrulad da

gegmazomierad iqmneboda, rTulia,

rom ase erTi xelis mosmiT

daingres, mxolod imitom, rom igi

usamarTlo da umarTebuloa.

_ da mainc, ar arsebobs Cixi

gamosavlis gareSe...

_ diax, am yvelafris Secvlas

aucileblad politikuri da

samoqalaqo neba sWirdeba. am nebidan

unda gamomdinareobdes

swored, rom arCevnebis beds rusuli

gavlenis qveS myofi institutis

winaSe kekluci da farisevloba

ki ara, gabeduli da pragmatuli

midgomebis ganxorcieleba

gansazRvravdes, ris gareSec,

rogorc qveyanas, aseve eklesias,

normaluri momavali namdvilad

ar moelis.

42

42 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

ra resursi aqvs opozicias

nene injgia

2020 wlis saparlamento arCevn-

591 71 39 98

ebze? ra formiT unda CaerTon

axalgazrdebi da rogoria „Tavis-

ufali demokratebis” mTavari gzavnili?

amis Sesaxeb „qronika+~ rubrika

„axalgazrda politikosebSi”

„Tavisufali demokratebis”

wevr giorgi popiaS-

vils esaubreba:

_ giorgi, bolo periodSi

ganviTarebuli movlenebiT ra

mocemulobis winaSe dgas qvey-

ana kriminogenuri kuTxiT?

SaqaraSvilisa da baCaliaSvi-

lis saqmeebSi ikveTeba Tu ara

sistemuri danaSaulis niSnebi?

_ saqarTveloSi kriminali

yovelwliurad izrdeba. Tu

bolo wlebis oficialur

statistikas gadavxedavT, amaSi

martivad davrwmundebiT.

aRniSnulidan gamomdinare,

SegviZlia davaskvnaT, rom bolo

wlebSi danaSaulma mkveTrad

imata. bunebaSi yvelaferi

ganicdis cveTas da gadagvarebas,

rac SemdgomSi ganaxlebas

saWiroebs. dRes am process gadis

policia, romlis ganaxlebis

procesi wina xelisuflebam

daiwyo, Tumca misi jerovani

ganxorcieleba ver moxerxda.

„qarTuli ocnebis” xelisuflebas

sakmarisi dro hqonda,

Zireuli gardaqmna daewyo

policiaSi! Tumca isic unda

iTqvas, rom policia es ar aris

mxolod teqnikuri mowyobilobebi,

uniforma an sxva damxmare

saSualeba. policia, upirveles

yovlisa, Sedgeba adamianebisgan,

raTa maT daicvan

xalxis uflebebi, amisTvis ki

saWiroa sistemaSi iseTi profesionalebi

muSaobdnen, romlebsac

aqvT empaTiis grZnoba da

SeuZliaT sxvisi tkivilis

mcirediT mainc gancda.

Tqven mier dasaxelebul orive

saqmeze aSkarad ikveTeba

araprofesionalizmis niSnebi,

rac SegviZlia sistemur xarvezadac

miviCnioT. am etapze

rTulia visaubroT sistemur

danaSaulze. vfiqrob, ufro

sistemur ucodinarobasa da

gulgrilobasTan gvaqvs saqme,

rac namdvilad ar aris axali

movlena. sistemuri danaSauli

mZime braldebaa, romelic, rogorc

konkretul pirebs, ise

mTlian sistemas moicavs, amis-

Tvis ki aucilebelia meti

mtkicebuleba da siRrmiseuli

gamoZieba. vfiqrob, gamoZiebis

procesSi Sefasebebis gakeTeba

Secdomis daSvebis maRal risks

Seicavs.

_ opoziciuri erToba kiTx-

vis niSnis qveS dgas: Tbilisis

or olqsa da regionebSi saer-

To kandidatebze Tanxmoba,

jerjerobiT, ver Sedga. rogor

fiqrobT, ratom ver Tanxm-

deba opozicia da ra kuTxiT

aisaxeba es winasaarCevno pro-

cesze?

_ ase ar vityodi, radgan

saqarTveloSi ar arsebobs raime

opoziciuri erToba, es mxolod

„erTobis” saxels amofarebuli

fasadia. nebismieri gaerTianeba

efuZneba saerTo xedvas

da erTian Rirebulebebs.

rogor fiqrobT, ra faseulobebsa

da Rirebulebebs efuZneba

opoziciuri erToba? ra

principiT SeirCeva kandidatebi?

an xalxis monawileoba sad

aris am procesSi? politikuri

Zalebi mocemul situaciaSi

cdiloben, SeinarCunon an moipovon

sakuTari politikuri

adgili.

saqarTveloSi rom arsebobdes

Tundac xuTi maRalzneobrivi

lideri, xalxi upirobod

gahyveboda maT, magram, samwuxarod,

Cveni politikuri land-

Safti daclilia aseTisgan.

2020 wlis arCevnebi iseTive

iqneba, rogorc gasuli arCevnebi.

albaT, ikiTxavT, ratom?

Cveni motivacia arCevnebTan

dakavSirebiT aris ara siyvaruli

da momavlis grZelvadiani

xedvis racionaluri gaazreba,

aramed siZulvili da masze

dafuZnebuli qmedebebi, sadac

erTi mxare mudmivad cdilobs

meore kinwiskvriT gaagdos saxlSi.

samwuxarod, es mankieri

praqtika imdenad Rrmad aris

daleqili Cvens gonebaSi, rom

Zalian didi Zalisxmeva dagvWirdeba

mis aRmosafxvrelad.

2020 wlis parlamentSi arsebiTad

izrdeba opoziciis roli

da mniSvneloba, rac met pasuxismgeblobas

moiTxovs rogorc

gancxadebebSi, ise _ politikur

moqmedebebSi. sxva SemTxvevaSi

SenarCundeba arsebuli

praqtika, sakuTari miznis misaRwevad

yvelafris kadrebis

politika, rogorc qveynis SigniT,

ise mis farglebs gareT,

rac mkveTrad ewinaaRmdegeba

axali Taobis interesebsa da

miznebs.

_ „qarTulma ocnebam” ukve

daasaxela maJoritarobis kan-


`siyalbeze agebuli politikis dro unda dasruldes~

moqmedebs qveynis ganviTarebasa

da mosaxleobis sulier mdgomareobaze.

Tu opozicia SeZlebs saku-

Tari susti da Zlieri mxareebis

gaazrebas da Sesabamisi samoqmedo

nabijebis SemuSavebas,

aseT SemTxvevaSi gamarjvebis

Sansi iarsebebs, Tumca am gadasaxedidan

es naklebad sarwmunoa

im garemoebebidan gamomdinare,

rasac yoveldRiurad

vxedavT. xalxi gulwrfel adamianebs

endoba da mihyveba.

gulwrfelobis maCvenebeli

dRevandel opoziciur speqtr-

Si Zalian dabalia, igive iTqmis

xelisuflebazec. politikuri

aqtorebi ZaliT, motyuebiTa da

sxva tipis teqnikebiT cdiloben

adamianebis keTilganwyobis

mopovebas. siyalbeze agebuli

politikis dro saqarTveloSi

unda dasruldes! es ki

maSin moxdeba, rodesac adamianebi

politikur Tanamdebobebs

piradi gamdidrebis wyarod ar

warmoidgenen da saxelmwifoebrivi

azrovneba moimatebs.

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom

saarCevno sistema Seicvala da

igi metwilad proporciulia,

arsebobs garkveulwilad po-

larizebis safrTxe. „qarTuli

ocneba” ecdeba massa da „na-

cionalur moZraobas” Soris

gadiodes brZolis mTavari

xazi. amis Tavidan asacile-

blad ra berketebi gaqvT sxva

politikur partiebs?

_ samwuxarod, qarTuli sahttps://police.ge/ge/home

didatebi. ramdenad didi Sansi

aqvs mmarTvel gunds dasaxelebuli

kandidatebidan gamomdinare

da korona pandemi-

asTan warmatebiT gamklaveba

iqneba Tu ara yvelaze sasarge-

blo mmarTveli gundisTvis

2020 wlis arCevnebis konte-

qstSi?

_ adamianebi, pirvel rigSi,

upiratesobas aniWeben sakuTar

sicocxles da mere _ yvela

danarCens. xelisuflebam pandemiasTan

brZolas eqimebTan

da sazogadoebasTan erTad

warmatebiT gaarTva Tavi. amis

naTeli magaliTia, erTi mxriv,

msoflioSi arsebuli situacia,

xolo, meore mxriv, Cveni uaxloesi

mezoblebi _ somxeT-azerbaijani,

sadac yoveldRiurad

asobiT axali SemTxveva

da aTobiT msxverplia, rac

Zalian sawyeni faqtia. pandemiasTan

brZola yvela Cvenganis

saetapo gamarjvebaa, Cven Sev-

ZeliT misi momakvdinebeli

Sedegebis gaazreba da wesebi

zedmiwevniT davicaviT.

vfiqrob, pandemiasTan brZolis

procesSi gamoyenebuli

atributebi, romlebic yoveld-

Riuri cxovrebis Semadgenlebad

Camoyalibda, rogoric

aris, magaliTad, pirbade, temperaturis

gazomva sajaro

sivrceebSi, garkveul SemboWvel

gavlenas axdens adamianTa

aracnobier fsiqikaze, rac

droTa ganmavlobaSi sazogadoebis

qcevaze aisaxeba.

rac Seexeba „qarTuli ocnebis”

maJoritar kandidatebs,

zogierT maTgans piradad vicnob,

magaliTad, irakli qadagiSvilsa

da irakli Ciqovans. maT

profesionalizmsa da patiosnebaSi

eWvi ar mepareba, Tumca

danarCeni kandidatebis Sesaxeb

verafers vityvi. erTi ki

aSkaraa: xelisuflebisa da

opoziciis prioriteti ar aris

meritokratiuli principiT

adamianebis SerCeva, rac qveynis

ganviTarebaze aisaxeba.

_ am dromde opoziciisgan

vismendiT slogans: „erTad er-

Tis winaaRmdeg”. ramdenad Se-

Zleben amas, es jer kidev

gaurkvevelia. Tqven rogor

warmogidgeniaT

opoziciis

gamarjvebis formula?

_ rogorc ukve aRvniSne,

arCevnebi damoukideblobis

mopovebidan dRemde tardeba am

principiT, ramac sazogadoeba-

Si daamkvidra siZulvili,

daqsaqsuloba, gaucxoeba da

imedgacrueba, rac negatiurad

giorgi popiaSvili:

`qarTuli ocneba~

da `nacionaluri

moZraoba~ warsulis

partiebi arian~

zogadoebis didi nawili mesianisturi

cnobierebis matarebelia,

rac Cveni warsuli gamocdilebisa

da awmyoSi arcxovrebis

Sedegia. zemoaRniSnul

partiebs yvela tipis resursi

aqvT imisTvis, rom gavlena moaxdinon

sazogadoebriv-politikur

procesebze da Secvalon

politikuri dRis wesrigi.

mcire zomis opoziciur partiebs

mxolod erTi gamosavali

aqvT: sazogadoebas aCvenon

gaazrebul momavalze orientirebuli

xedva.

„qarTuli ocneba” da „nacionaluri

moZraoba” warsulis

partiebia, radgan orive maTgani

drois sxvadasxva monakveTSi

CarCa da veRar axerxebs

iqidan gamosvlas, Tumca arc

mcire partiebSia mkafio xedva

da saxarbielo mdgomareoba,

rac adamianebisTvis sarwmuno

da imedis momcemi iqneboda. am

fonze ki zemoaRniSnuli partiebi

kargad axerxeben adamianis

grZnobebiT manipulirebas.

_ ra formiT unda CaerTon

axalgazrdebi 2020 wlis

arCevnebSi da am mimarTulebi

ra gegmebi gaqvT „Tavisufal

demokratebs”?

_ aravisTvis aris axali, rom

sazogadoebis mamoZravebel

Zalas axalgazrdoba warmoadgens,

rogorc saqarTveloSi,

ise _ sazRvargareTis qveyneb-

Si. axalgazrdebs calsaxad Seu-

ZliaT Secvalon qveynis politikuri

dRis wesrigi, Tumca

amisTvis yvelaze mTavari ram

aris saWiro, _ pasuxismgebloba

qveynis winaSe da Zalisxmevis

unari rogorc sakuTar Tavze,

ise sazogado-politikur procesebze.

axalgazrdebis politikaSi

monawileoba mxolod

arCevnebSi pasiuri da aqtiuri

xmis uflebiT an sxva saxis aqtivobiT

ar ganisazRvreba. am

mxriv seriozuli problemebi

gvaqvs, radgan axalgazrdebis

didi nawili ver axerxebs Caer-

Tos qveynis aRmSeneblobis

procesSi. srulebiT ar aris

saWiro partiis wevroba. pirvel

rigSi, saWiroa arsebobdes

gamarTuli demokratiuli institutebi

da adgilobrivi

TviTmmarTveloba, sadac adamiani

SeZlebda qveda doneze sakuTari

da saqveyno saqmeebis ganxilvas,

rogorc es xdeba bevr

evropul qveyanaSi. dRes ki gvgonia,

rom demokratias vaSenebT,

Tumca es ar aris demokratia,

es fasadia, namdvili demokratiis

gayalbebaa.

_ ra iqneba Tqveni partiis

mTavari gzavnili 2020 wlis

arCevnebis konteqstSi da rogoria

Tqveni saarCevno str-

ategia?

_ es arCevnebi bevrad rTuli

da konkurentuli iqneba,

sadac gadamwyveti mniSvneloba

mieniWeba movlenebisa da procesebis

swor analizs da droul

moqmedebas, raTa amomrCevelma

swori arCevanis gakeTeba

SeZlos.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

43


dekanoz nikita TalakvaZis

gagrZeleba, dasawyisi

gagrZeleba, dasawyisi

ix. „qronika+” ##35-41

(2019w.); ##2-9; #12 (2020w.)

„qronika+~ agrZelebs dekanoz

nikita TalakvaZis dRiuris gamoqveynebas.

SegaxsenebT, rom „literaturuli

muzeumis” mier wlebis

winaT gamocemuli wigni, „mo-

qalaqe mRdvlis dRiurebi”, rigi

garemoebebis gamo, faqtobrivad,

farTo mkiTxvelisTvis xelmiu-

wvdomelia. masalaSi, romelsac

qvemoT warmogidgenT, Ziri-

Tadad, saubaria saeklesio in-

trigebsa da kuluarebze. nikita

TalakvaZis SefasebebiT es kuluarebi

da faqtebi dRevandeli ga-

dasaxedidanac ki sakmaod mZime

gasaazrebelia da uamrav „nac-

nob” Tu ucnob movlenas, cnobil

Tu sazogadoebisTvis ucnob personas

saerTod sxva kuTxiT war-

moaCens.

SegaxsenebT, rom nikita TalakvaZe

daibada medaviTnis ojax-

Si. 1889-1895 wlebSi swavlobda

Tbilisis sasuliero seminariaSi,

1895-1899 wlebSi ki _ kievis sasuliero

akademiaSi; 1899-1902ww. _

muSaobda quTaisis sasuliero

saswavlebelSi maswavleblad; 1902

wlis dekembris pirvel ricxvebSi

jer diakvnad akurTxes, Semdeg ki

mRvdlad daasxes xeli da foTis

wminda aleqsandre nevelis saxelobis

sakaTedro taZris winamZ-

Rvrad dainiSna; mama nikitam, mitrofane

laRiZis, sosiko merkvilaZisa

da sxvaTa daxmarebiT, aRadgina

wminda Tamar mefis xsovnis

dRe da Tamarobis dResaswauli.

nikita TalakvaZe iyo episkopos

kirion II-is (saZagliSvili) Tanamoazre.

aqtiurad monawileobda avtokefaliur

moZraobaSi. 1912

wels igi anCisxatis yovladwminda

RvTismSoblis Sobis saxelobis

eklesiis winamZRvrad ganamweses.

1917 wels mieniWa dekanozis wodeba.

1917 wlis 8 marts mama nikitas

binaze Sedga saidumlo kreba,

romelsac eswrebodnen noe Jordania,

aleqsandre lomTaTiZe,

sosiko merkvilaZe da episkoposi

antoni (giorgaZe). krebaze gadawyda,

rom 12 marts sveticxovelSi

gadaexadaT samSvidobo paraklisi,

xolo Semdeg waekiTxaT avtokefaliis

aRdgenis aqti.

1917-1920 wlebSi dekanozi nikita

iyo sakaTolikoso sabWos wevri.

igi gaxldaT sruliad saqar-

Tvelos kaTolikos-patriarqis

arCevnebis dros xmis damTvleli

komisiis Tavmjdomare da pirvelma

gamoacxada axlad aRdgenili

qarTuli eklesiis meTaurad ka-

Tolikos-patriarqi kirion II

(saZagliSvili). 1918-1921 wlebSi

dekanozi nikita gamoirCeoda aqtiuri

moRvaweobiT, rac gaagrZela

qveynis gasabWoebis Semdegac.

sabWoTa xelisufleba aviwroebda

uSiSrad mamxilebel moZRvars.

1922 wlis 17 oqtombers qal-

Ta saswavleblis direqtorma igi

maswavleblobidan daiTxova; 1924

wels dekanozi nikita aiZules,

daetovebina eklesia. igi jer saqarTvelos

finsaxkomis sabiujeto

ganyofilebis ufrosad muSaobda,

Semdeg _ kulturis saministro-

Si. dekanozi nikita iyo Tavisi

drois SesaniSnavi mqadagebeli.

Cvenamde moaRwia misma araerTma

44

qadagebam. igi avtoria Canawerebisa,

romelic cnobilia, rogorc

„moqalaqe-mRvdlis dRiuri”.

(gagrZeleba)

4 ivnisi! suliwmindis mofena

_ kvira

rodesac ganzraxuli iyo sam-

RvdeloebisaTvis „nagradebi”

moefina Cvens kaTolikozs, sworeT

im dRes komunistebma mohfines

Cvens sazogadoebas _ jer

3 ivniss _ SabaTs _ qarTulad,

xolo 4-s rusulad kaTolikoz

ambrosis mowodeba genuis konferenciaze,

agreTve noe Jordanias

mimarTva imav konferenciisaTvis!

„Ïàòðèàðõè çà ðàáîòîé”! ambrosi

da Jordania orTaveni patriarqebad

arian aRiarebuli,

orTaves mimarTvis teqstia ucvlelad

dabeWdili. am dokumentebis

gamo qarTul-rusulad daibe-

Wda imav nomrebSi filipe maxaraZis

vrceli, lanZRva-ginebiT

da dausabuTebeli werili Semdegi

saTauriT: „Àðõèïàñòûðñêîå ëãàíüå

Ïàòðèàðõà Àìâðîñèÿ”, _ maxaraZe

TiTqos uars yofs, rom sazRvargareT

gaizida (ruseTSi, somxiT-

Si, aderbaijanSi) saqarTvelos

avla-dideba, qoneba, miwebi

dairiges ucxo tomis xalxma, sul

ucxo tomis moZaladeni arian

gamefebuli dRes saqarTveloSi,

samSoblo ena devnilia, sjuli da

eklesiebi damcirebulni, devnilni

da cxovrebis saxsars moklebulni,

xalxi gminavs, kvnesis da

xma ver amouRia, rom varT rusTa

batonobis mZime uRlis qveSe da

moiTxovs kaTolikozi wiTel armiis

gayvanas saqarTvelos sazRvrebidan;

xalxs mieces SeZleba

moawyos Tvisi marTva-gamgeoba

ise, rogorc TviTon dainaxavs sasurvelad;

es sul tyuilebiao, _

swers maxaraZe!.. Semdeg nomrebSi,

qarTulSi Tu rusulSi, mowinave

werilebi uZRvnes kaTolikozs

sastik muqarebiT, lanZRvaginebiT

savse.

magram sakvirveli is aris, rom

kaTolikozs kudSi mec gamomabes;

zemoT ukve aRvniSne Tu rogor

gamamasxaraves „komunistSi” WiWinaZis

iubiles gamo kaTolikozis

saxeliT scenaze gamosvlisaTvis

_ riJa mRvdeli TalaqvaZe, kaTolikozis

daqiravebulio”; Semdeg

„komunistis” 8 ivnisis nomerSi

(127) „amxanag s. T-ias (Todria)

mouTavsebia „patara feletoni”,

romelSidac amasxaravebs 24 maisis

demonstracias TbilisSi. es

vaJbatoni imdenad gaitaca masxaraobam,

rom yovelive marTebuleba

daaviwya! ai, rasa swers sxvaTaSoris:

„...myinvaris wverze

gamoCnda TeTri giorgi, Tviss

TeTr raSze. win da ukan wminda

nino da Tamar dedofali yavda

Semomjdario”... „saqarTveloSi

Sesdga droebiTi koalicionuri

mTavroba social-demokratebis,

nacional-demokratebis da federalistebis

SemadgenlobiT.

mTavrobis TavmjdomareT arCeul

iqmna erTxmaT patriarxi ambrosi,

mis moadgileT giorgi arRanaSvili

(es mogonili gvaria, aq mgoni

rafiel ivanicki unda hyvandes

saxeSi, romelic cixeSi zis, Tumca

cixeSi giorgi Jordaniac zis),

romelic jer kidev ver gamosula

metexis cixidan, radgan bolSevikebma

gaqcevis dros Tan waiRes

cixis gasaRebi. amitom arRanaSvilis

magierobas asrulebs mRvdel-monazoni

mama TalaqvaZe”!!!

axirebulia Cemi saqme! rodesac

sapasuxismgeblo saqmea, me mgzavnis

kaTolikozi, arc ki mekiTxeba

msurs, SemiZlia an garemoeba nebas

maZlevs amaze Tu ara?! 18 maisis

TariRiT #504, momivida miss samwerlodan

d. daviTaSvilis xelmowerili

brZaneba _ „WiWinaZes 50

wlis iubile miuloce 21 maiss

saopero Teatris darbazSi kaTolikozis

da samRvdeloebis saxeliTo”!

meore dRes mivel kaTolikozTan

da movaxsene, rom erTi

kacis deputaciiT gagzavna ar

aris miRebuli da arc carieli

xeliT misvla iqneba lamazi, vinaidan

yvelani raRacas miarTmeven

iubiliars Tqo. vagrZnobine,

rom amodena fuli iflangeba

sadilebSi da erTi milioni ro

mivarTvaT iubiliars ar iqneba

urigo Tqo; daminiSna meore amxanagad

grZelwvera dek. n. maWaraSvili

da mogvca erTi milioni misarTmevad.

kaTolikozi imdenad populiaruli

Seiqmna am dReebSi TbilisSi,

rom misi saxeliT gamosvlaze

ovacia gagvikeTa sazogadoebam,

am ovaciiT TanagrZnobas

ucxadeben kaTolikozs komunistebis

sagulisxmod, sityvac

„memorandumis” Sesabam Sinaarsisa

iyo, exla am sityvazedac ovaciebi

gamarTes, es sakmarisi iyo, rom

me kaTolikozis „moadgiled” davesaxe

komunistebs da Tu represiebi

iqneba, pirvelad kaTolikoz-

Tan me unda gaviziaro es represiebi!

iyos neba RvTisa! amisi

srulebiT ar meSinia, arc merideba,

piriqiT, sixaruliT vitvirTav

ideiur devna-tanjvas! magram is

mawuxebs, rom aseT dros kaTolikozi

ver ufrTxildeba Seqmnil

sulier ganwyobilebas Cvens

sasargeblod sazogadoebaSi da

SeiZleba Seqmnili gancda daaxurdaos

man iseTi utaqto da Seusabamo

saqcieliT, rogoric iqneboda

„jildoebis” mofena qarTvel

samRvdeloebaze!!! ai, niadagi gamasxaravebisa

da damcirebisa!!!

garna ToTibaZe-cicqiSvili, cincaZe-

mirianovebi-SublaZeebi arian

kaTolikozis zurgs amofarebulni

da pirad cxovrebas iumjobeseben,

isev me mCrian mtris

pirSi, ro TviTon buzic ar aufrindesT.

ro saqme-saqmeze misdges

eseni ityvian: „ara viciT kaci

ese”, _ samgzis ki ara mgoni asgzis

uar-hyon igi da misi „memorandumic”!

Cven arc ki gagvigia, am

„mowodebis” gagzavna Tu dawerao!

aseTi iyvnen eseni eqsarxosebis

dros, aseTnive darCen dResac.

tyvila ki ar aris naTqvami _ „kuzians

saflavi Tu gaasworebso”!..

amaT verc saflavi gaasworebs,

metad gauTaxsirebia eseni sinodalur-eqsarxosebis

reJims!.. ra

uSavT, cxovrebas dResac TavSi

moeqcen, mosZoves da sZoven Cvens

ubedur eklesias, maZRrebi arian

yoveli mxriv, exla mxolod „mitrebi”Ra

akliaT. amaTac miiReben!

Cemze ki icinian, icinian, kvdebian

siciliT! ra uyoT, icineT, ugunurno!

Tqveni saqcieli qamis saqcielia,

Tqven dasciniT yovel siwmindes,

Tqven Tavs daxiT-xiTebT

gaSiSvlebul, damcirebul, leCaq

da mandil axdil samSoblos! ar

mSurs Tqveni „kmayofileba”...

vnaxoT, ra iqneba! mgoni, ara

iyos ra! bolSevikebs gadauwyvetiaT

_ xeli ar vaxloT kaTolikozs,

rom is mowamebriv gvirgviniT

ar Sehmosono... mgoni, bolos

mainc gvaxleben xels, ver

moiTmenen, ganZeulobas wagvarTmeven

mainc... magram arc TviTon

aqvsT kargad saqme. am dReebSi

xelidan xelSi gadadis f. maxaraZis

1921 wlis dekembris moxsenebis

asli, romelic mas warudgenia

moskovSi, rodesac is Tavmjdomareobidan

gadaagdes Tbilis-

Si da gajavrebuli wavida ruseT-

Si! ai, es dokumentia namdvili

„Ëãàíüå” da TaRliToba! am dokumentis

avtori, mikvirs, rogor

hbedavs kaTolikozis „mowodebis”

gakritikebas! ra moRalatobis da

iudobis toni aqvs aRebuli sawyal

filipes Tvis moxsenebaSi! is

arsebiTad Tanaxmaa saqarTvelos

organiulad gaerTianebisa ruseTTan,

magram es unda frTxilad

moxdeso, moCveneba damoukideblobisa

unda vawarmooT saqarTveloSio!

did siZulvils iCens is

Tvis TanamoZme-komunist Salva

caavasa da sergo orjonikiZisadmi,

ar moswons amaTi Ria rusifikatoruli

mimarTuleba, abez-

Rebs lenins amaT, eseni Cvens saer-

To saqmes Rupaven saqarTveloSi,

pasuxisgebaSi arian misacemio!.. mas

Semdeg maxaraZe isev dabrunda

saqarTveloSi, jer miwaTa saministros

edga saTaveSi, Semdeg aRmasrulebel

komitetis Tavmjdomared

airCies, dRes isev didi

kacia, „paiok-ulufas” da did

fuls iRebs isa da misi xel-qveiTni,

sWamen, svamen, qeifoben ise,

rogorc arc daesizmrebodaT,

col-Svili kmayofilni hyavT,

maZRarni! ra enaRvlebaT, rac

mouva saqarTvelos da qarTvelobas.

TviT araviTari gavlena-ufleba

ara aqvT xelSi, mTeli Zalaufleba

aqvT „kav-biuros” da

„okas” („osobaia kavkazskaia armia”)!

eseni ki amaT xelSi saTamaSo

tikinebi arian!..

44 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

1922

rveuli II

11 ivnisi (ax. st.)

1922 weli. q. Tbilisi

kaTolikoss

ambrosis „CekaSi” gawveva

genuis konferenciaze kaTolikosis

mier gagzavnilma „mowodebam”,

rogorc viciT, didi aurzauri

gamoiwvia „komunistur presaSi”

_ „Ïðàâäà Ãðóçèè“ da „komunistebi”!

es ori gazeTiRa gamodis

dRes saqarTveloSi. is gawiwmatebuli

lanZRva-gineba, romli-

Tac Sexvdnen xsenebul gazeTebis

publicistebi kaTolikozis „mowodebas”,

naTlad maCvenebeli iyo

im garemoebisa, rom aseT „gamosvlas”

ar apatiebden bolSevikebi

kaTolikozss, miT umetes, rom es

„mowodeba” ar iyo kaTolikozis

sakuTar nebis da moqalaqobriv

Segnebis nayofi, aramed gamowvuli

iyo menSevikebis TaosnobiT da

zed-gavleniT. exla ukve yvelam

viciT da, rasakvirvelia es maT

ufro ician, visac exeba es garemoeba,

rom genuis „konferenciisadmi

mowodebis” Taosani aris aw

gansvenebuli silibistro jiblaZe;

amis TaosnobiT daawerines

kaTolikozs, anu ukeT ro vsTqvaT,

dauweres es dokumenti,

Seszaves is mZime braldebebiT

bolSevikebis mimarT, xolo is ki

ar ifiqres Tu ra faqtebiT Sei-

Zleboda am braldebebis damtkiceba.

dasweres, gadaikiTxes, moiwones

teqsti, kmayofilebiT ulvaSebze

xeli gadaisves _ es ra

kargi „mebrZolni” vyofilvarTo

da, rogorc donkixotma, gadaswyvites

kidevac rom mters bolo

mouRes _ genuis konferencia usaTuod

garekavs bolSevikebs saqarTvelodan

da sul amierkavkasiidan;

dabrundeba noe Tvisi amaliT

evropidan, dek. k. cincaZes isev

aRudgeba „karis protopresviteroba”

(Jordanias Svili magan

gaasvena sadguramde, xolo patara

qalic magan mounaTla, rogorc


„moZRvarma” da nadimzedac Tamadad

iyo prezidentis sasaxleSi),

dek. anton TiTibaZe ki isev aRidgens

„samxedro protopresviterobas”,

romelic 1918 wels miiRo

man damoukideblad Cveni saeklesio

mTavrobisa, pirdapir silibistro

jiblaZisagan. es silibistro

jiblaZe axlo naTesavia dek.

ToTibaZisa da ozurgeTis sasuliero

saswavlebelSi ro swavlobda

silibistro, ToTibaZis

ojaxSi hqonda mas bina! ai, aseTi

nacnob-naTlimamobiT ewyoba Cven-

Si yvelaferi! amitomac iyo, rom

me gamacures yinulze, rodesac

viTxove samxedro taZari Tbilis-

Si, kaTolikozi kirionic xels miwyobda

amaSi da anton quTaTelic

(giorgaZe). am ukanasknelis daxmarebiT

maSindelma samxedro ministrma

gr. gorgaZem momca kidec

samxedro taZris winamZRvroba, magram

es mocemuli adgili silibistro

jiblaZis Zlierma xelma

wamglija da anton ToTibaZem

daisakuTra, sasuliero mTavrobis

usanqciod! ai, aseTi kompania

iyo da dResac aris TbilisSi.

amaTi bWobis qveSe gaiara kaTolikozis

„mowodebam”, eseni ise

iyvnen atacebulni, rom arc ki

hfiqrobden Tu vinme pasuxs

mosTxovdaT aseT „nabijSi”! eklesiur

sferoSi aravin vicodiT es

ganzraxva, garda im daaxloebul

kamariliisa; _ dauweres kaTolikozs

„mowodeba” (avtori yofili

dek. k. kekeliZeao, _ amboben!),

xeli moaweries, vlasi mgelaZes

da ioseb imedaSvils Caudes

jibeSi, Casves qobuleTis napirze

erT navSi, _ naviT Sescures zRvaSi,

iq maT gemi elodaT stambolidan

da aseTi vai-vaglaxiT

gaigzavna „memorandumi” genuaSi!

iq miiRes menSevikebma es dokumenti

da Seecadnen esargeblaT miT!

„wyal-waRebuli xavss eWidebodao”,

_ sworeT menSevikebze

axda es andaza! sanam mTavrobas

saTaveSi edgnen, Zala-ufleba

xelT hqondaT, mogvdgen da Tvisi

mTeli Zal-Rone _ Tu socialisturi

artilleria saqarTvelos

eklesiis dangrevas moandomes,

CamogvarTves yvelaferi, gagviuqmes

yvela saswavleblebi, pirvelma

maT mohkides xeli Cveni eklesiebis

ganZeulobas, istoriul

aktad darCeba aw gansvenebul leonidis

da noe Jordanias Soris

momxdari Setakeba gelaTis monastridan

ganZeulobis gamotanis

gamo! es da sxva ganZeuloba (bolos

ubedurma leonidma gelaTis

ganZeulobas sionisac zed moumata,

gaqceul menSevikebs gaatana

evropaSi, TviTonac gaiqca Tbilisidan,

egona masac evropaSi waiyvandnen

menSevikebi da erTad icxovrebden

waRebul ganZeulobis

angariSze, magram, naTqvamia, „kaci

bWobda da RmerTi icinodao”!)

menSevikebma waiRes Tan, viTom

moarides Semoseul bolSevikebs,

Tan arqeologi evTime TayaiSvilic

waiyvanes „am siZveleTa

dasacavad”, magram metad daugviandaT

samSobloSi dabruneba da

ra maTi „brali” iqneba, rom es

ganZeuloba SemoexarjosT ltolvil

mTavrobas evropaSi, _ „haeriT

xo ar isazrdoebeno”!!!

aq ar SemiZlia ar movigono

erTxel kidev Cemi gamobaaseba noe

ramiSvilTan _ 1919 wels, rodesac

is samxedro, Sinagani da ganaTlebis

ministri iyo, xolo me

sakaTolikozo sabWodan mqonda

masTan msjeloba Cveni uwyebis

SenobaTa Sesaxeb, romelnic maSin

ingliselebis jars hqonda daWerili,

maTTvis ijara unda gadagvexdevina,

xolo Cveni mTavroba

ar gvcnobda Cven im SenobaTa baton-patronad.

me uTxari noe

ramiSvils, dek. i. kapanaZis da i.

CijavaZis TanadaswrebiT: „nu eSurebiT

Cveni eklesiis da sam-

Rvdeloebis ganiavebas, sxva bevri

saqme gaqvT, imaT mihxedeT _

Cven gamqcevni ara varT, Cven konservatiuli

Zala varT, mikrulmiWedili

samSoblos niadagze,

Cven bevri gadagvxvedria Tavs,

ufro metsac moveliT; Tqven jer

araviTari niadagi ara gaqvT fexqveS,

Tqven TviTon ar iciT _ romeli

talRa waglekavT saqarTvelos

piridan! SesaZlebelia Tqven

aq ar iyoT, xolo Cven rogorc vyofilvarT,

isev viqnebiT! nu

dagvaZabunebT, gvadroveT vemsaxuroT

TqvenTan erTad samSoblos

Tqo”! amaze xeli amiqnia da dacinviT

miTxra: „ras ambob, xuceso,

Tu icio”! _ Semdeg gaigeb, rasac

geubnebi Tqo, _ upasuxe me... da

asrulda kidec!..

me aq imis Tqma msurs, rom arc

menSevikebis mTavroba, arc TviT

viTomda Cveni monaTesave nacional-demokratiis

partia, rom mas

Zala-ufleba xelSi Cauvardes

odesme, miT umetes bolSevikebi,

eklesias, samRvdeloebas da sazogadod

sarwmunoebis saqmes ar

daindoben! amas naTlad RaRadeben

maTi partiuli programebi!

amaT yvelas eklesia da samRvdeloeba

undaT rogorc iaraRi, rogorc

saSvaleba, rogorc SemTxveviTi

safexuri, fexis Camosawmendi,

Torem arsebiTad, aravin mxars

ar dagviWers. es Tvalsazrisi

bevrjel gavaSuqe sakaT. sabWoSic

samRvdeloebis krebebze da ker-

Zo TaTbirebSi, magram ara gamovida

ra, ver gamoviwvie sasuliero

mTavroba sakuTar niadagze damdgariyo,

uar-eyo erTxel da samudamod

„saxelmwifosTan kavSiri”,

Tvis saqmis mogvarebas Sesdgomoda,

eris religiur-moralur

mdgomareobis mosagvareblad

dagvewyo organizaciuli muSaoba,

msgavsad kaTolikur eklesiisa,

romelic dResac yvelgan da yovel

garemoebaSi Cinebulad

hgrZnobs Tavs...

miuxedavad imisa, rom bolos

da bolos aseTi uaryofiT da

mtrobiT Segvexnen menSevikebis

mTavroba, maTi katastrofis Semdeg,

rac me naTlad uwinaswarmetyvele

noe ramiSvils, mainc utifar

melasaviT Semogvibrunden da

isev iaraRad gamogviyenes, kaTolikozi

xelT Caigdes ToTibaZecincaZis

saSvalebiT, eseni, rogorc

eqsarxosebis drois gamocdili,

Savrazmeli agentebi _ azefebi,

yovelive mTavrobis atmasnas

axerxeben, erT sanTels Tu Cvens

RmerTs daunTeben, samsa da oTx

sanTels satanasac unTeben xolme,

vin icis, iqneb esec gamogvadgeso!

marTlac menSevikebis mTavrobaSi,

es yofili laqiebi monarqiul

reJimisa, didebulad moewyven,

maTma piradma keTildReobam

umaRles wertilamde miaxwia! eseni

mxolod piradi interesebiT

moqmedebden mudam da exlac. exlac

bolSevik cnobil f. maxaraZesTan

dek. anton ToTibaZe intimur

ganwyobilebaSia, is misi agentia!

maxaraZe araerTxel daumalavs

mas Turme Tvis binaze „kraotqveS”,

asazrdoebda mas da xels

umarTavda, vin icis iqneb erT

dros esec gamomadgeso! gamoadga

kidec. saocrad TamaSobs Tavis

rols „mama” antoni! es rusis provokatorebs

saJen-naxevariT aWarbebs!

Tan maxaraZesTan saidumlod

saqmes ikeTebs, rom veris sasaflao

daubrkoleblad mosZovos

`moqalaqe-mRvdlis dRiuri~

(bolSevikebma gamosces dekreti _

saflavebi muqTad unda yofiliyo,

ToTibaZe ki TiTo saflavSi

1,1 1/2-2 milionebs axdevinebs

xalxs, arc kvitancias aZlevs vinmes,

arc registracias uSveba aRebul

fuls, zogs kaTolikozs aWmevs,

sxvas TviTon miirTmevs,

wveulebebsac awyobs am fuliT da

qveyanas nacars ayris TvalebSi!),

Tan menSevikebTanac kavSiri aqvs

da kaTolikozs „memorandumze”

xels aweriebs jiblaZis winadadebiT,

vin icis, iqneb menSevikebi

dabrundnen da saqme ar wavagoo!..

aseT xafangSi mohyva ubadruki

ambrosi da Cvenc CagviTries Sig,

Cveni „Tavi” amas sCadis, magaTi

„bolo” raRa iqnebao”, _ ase

bWoben dRes Cvenze bolSevikebi!..

rogor Sexvda kaTolikozi da

misi kamarilia bolSevikebis pressis

gamosvlebs „mowodebis” gamo?!

mosalodneli iyo, rom eseni mzad

iqneboden pasuxis misacemad, ka-

Tolikozi molodinSi unda yofiliyo,

rom mas an daapatimrebden

an „CekaSi” daibarebden da

pasuxs mosTxovden! pirvel xaneb-

Si kaTolikozs hqonda aseTi

molodini, is Zlier SeSinebulic

iyo; xmebic vrceldeboda qalaq-

Si, „ai dRes daapatimres kaTolikozi,

_ ase Seegeba is Cekistebs,

aseTi sityvebi uTqvams mas dapatimrebis

droso”, _ magram es sul

Worebi iyo. amiT ki TiTqos gaabrues

kaTolikozi, is SeeCvia am

xmebs, darwmunda kidec, rom mas

xels aRar axlebden da arxeinad

ganagrZobda Tbilisis mdidar eklesiebSi

rig-rigobiT Camovlas,

wirvas, xolo wirvis Semdeg

mRvdlebis ojaxebSi, eklesiebis

xarjiT, nadimebze daswrebas da

molxena-simRerebiT garTobas. ixarjeboda

TiTo sadilze 15-20-25-

30 milioni! es am SimSilobis

dros, rodesac xalxi igudeba uWmelobiT!..

Camoiara kaTolikozma

petre-pavle, wm. nino, qvaSveTi,

kviracxoveli, didube, sameba, amaRleba,

mama daviTi, veris nikolozze

xom oTxjer-xuTjer inadimes,

wirviT Tu uwiravaT! da ai,

dResac 11 ivniss kviras, mwirveli

brZandeboda kaTolikozi veris

nikolozze mTeli Tvisi „kompaniiT”!

da ai, ra sababiT!

dek. ToTibaZe veris sasaflaoze

„moRvaweobis” gamoCenas

scdilobs; sasaflaos „gamSvenebisaTvis”

iRvwis, scdilobs raime

garegani efeqtic misces Tvis Semosavlis

wyaros, raime inteligenturi,

ideiuri saxe! am mizniT

man „aRmoaCina” im sasaflaoze sami

qarTveli mwerlis saflavi: WonqaZisa,

ardazianisa da rCeuliSvilisa!

sxva saflavebidan aiRo

marmarilos qvebi, gadaafxekia warwerebi

da amaTi Sesaxebi warwerebiT

es qvebi aRmarTa mweral-

Ta saflavebze; am Taobaze 11 ivniss

kaTolikozi dahpatiJa mwirvelad,

qarTveli inteligenciac

moiwvia „miviwyebul” mweralTa

pativsacemad da saflavebis kur-

Txevaze dasaswrebad. kaTolikozma

gadaixada wirva didis ambiT,

didi sityva warmouTqvams taZar-

Si „yovelTa wmidaTa kviriakeze”,

is sami mwerali wmindanebad aRuarebia

da ganucxadebia, rom maTi

azri da mimarTulebaa dRes cxovrebaSi

gatarebulio! saocaria

aseTi qadagebis mosmena kaTolikozis

piridan! aRniSnuli mwerlebi

dRevandel socialistebs

CvenSi TavianT winamorbedaT miaCniaT,

xolo kaTolikozic wmindanad

da ideiur Tanamoazred

aRiarebs maT! amas miaqcies sazogadoebaSi

yuradReba da did

defeqtad CauTvales patriarxs

aseTi daumuSavebeli azris warmoTqma

qristianuli TvalsazrisiT.

magram kaTolikozs am xanad

is mwerlebi rodi ainteresebda,

isini sababad gamoiyena Tviss erTgul

xelmZRvanelis _ opekunis

ToTibaZis gansadideblad! daxeT,

ra sikeTe giyoT mama antonma, _

paTetiurad wamoiZaxa kaTolikozma

qadagebaSi! man am mwerlebis

saflavi aRmoaCina, morTo-mokazma

da isev Tvalwin dagiyenaTo!

aseTi moZRvari iSviaTia, sazogadoebas

hmarTebs misi uaRresi pativiscemao”!

ai, Turme ris muclis

tkivilebi hqoniaT! Zalad

Tavze moxveul „moZRvars” _ ToTibaZes

kaTolikozi niadags umagrebs

mrevlSi! sazogadoeba _ mrevli

_ kargad hxedavs Tu ris da

ra „moZRvaria” mama antoni, magram,

Cveulebriv, qarTul indiferentizmiT

ucqeris am Cvens qcevas

is, zogi ulvaSebSi icinis, ra ena-

RvlebaT, ratom awyeninon vinmes,

dRes iq _ antonisas _ kargad

isadileben, ra gvenaRvleba _

kiseric utexiaT mRvdlebsao, _

erTmaneTic amouWamiaTo!

taZridan litaniiT gasulan

aRniSnul mweralTa saflavebze,

ukurTxebiaT patara marmariloebze

warwerebi da Semdeg mwerals

ia ekalaZes (iakob cincaZes) cxare

sityva warmouTqvams maT Sesaxeb,

prestiJuli Sinaarsisa, Tanamedrove

momentis gamoc!.. Semdeg

mTeli es amala: dek. tyemalaZe,

dek. cincaZe, fxalaZe, mirianaSvili,

SublaZe, rasakvirvelia „mangleli

qristefore”, maWaraSvili,

garsiaSvili, mataTaSvili, asa-

Tiani, mdivan-begi cnobili davi-

TaSvili, naxucari kekeliZe _

profesori, TavdgiriZe _ es sasuliero

sferodan da sxva rCeul-rCeuli

inteligentebi eriskacTagan

dek. ToTibaZes miuwvevia

Tviss binaze _ samxedro taZris

binaze _ maRal-gorakze wamoWimulze

da iq didi nadimi gadauxdiaT!

ukve gamovida daxarjul

fulis jamis raodenoba _ 15 milioni!

es sTqva diakonma anton

lazriSvilma, romelic Caxeduli

piria aseT saqmeebSi! saRamos cxra

saaTamdi usiamovnebia maT „uwmindesobas”

am kompaniaSi da Sedeg

dek. cincaZis, lazriSvilis da

sxvebis amalas fexiT unebebia saxlSi

dabruneba, rusTavelis prospektze

moseirnobden, xalxis

dasanaxavad, xalxic asdevnebia

ukan, „ai, es aris kaTolikozi,

romelmac genuis konferenciaze

memorandumi gagzavnao”!..

Turme komunisturi mTavrobac

yuradRebiT adevnebs Tvals Cveni

kaTolikosis yovelive nabijs;

im dRes eklesiaSic, garedac

„Cekis” mzveravebi Tavs dastrialebden

kaTolikozs, sityvac

mousmines, ekalaZis Sesxmac moismines,

sadilis drosac dazveres,

maspinZlebs stumrebi hgonebodaT

da ara-erTxel SeipatiJes saxl-

Si, magram ar Sedioden!..

(gagrZeleba Semdeg nomerSi)

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

45


dinamos tirana estumreba

NBA-s ganaxlebul regularul

sezonSi goga biTaZe meored gamo-

Cnda moedanze da erT-erTi dasamaxsovrebeli

epizodi miiTvala

qarTuli kalaTburTis imedma

TviT lebron jeimss daufara.

„indianam” 116:111 rom daamarcxa

Cempionobis erT-erTi kandidati

„leikersi”, amaSi wili qarTvelma

centrmac daido, romelmac xseneb-

biTaZem lebrons Caafara

ul dafarebas 12 wuTSi Svidi

qula, ori moxsna da erTi CaWrac

miayola. gogam oridan ori

orquliani Caagdo, aseve orjer isrola

samiani da mizans erTxel

uwia.

indianelTagan saukeTeso Sedegi

tijei uorenma daafiqsira 39

qula. 24 qula hqonda malkolm

brogdons, 22 viqtor oladipos.

losanjeleselTagan 31 qula, 8

moxsna da 7 pasi jeimsma miiTvala.

entoni devisi mxolod 8 qulas

dasjerda.

43 mogebiTa da 27 wagebiT indiana

aRmosavleT konferenciaSi me-

5 adgilzea da flei ofSi TamaSi

garantirebuli aqvs. momdevno

matCs „indiana” „maiamisTan” 11

agvistos gamarTavs.

Sveicariis qalaq nionSi, uefas

StabbinaSi CempionTa ligis sakva-

lifikacio etapis wiliswyra

gaimarTa.

arTa.

evropis yvelaze prestiJul

saklubo turnirze saqarTvelos

saxels Cempioni Tbilisis „dina-

mo“ daicavs.

dinamoelebs wilisyram metoqed

albanuri klubi „tirana” ar-

guna.

imTaviTve cnobili iyo, rom

„dinamo” kenWisyraSi monawileob-

da, rogorc ganTesili gundi.

misi metoqe oTxidan erT-erTi

unda yofiliyo brestis „dinamo”,

„riga”, „tirana” an „sileqsi”.

matCi, romlis TariRi 18 an 19

agvistoa, TbilisSi gaimarTeba.

CempionTa ligis pirvel sakva-

lifikacio etapze sxva gundebi

ase dawyvildnen:

ferencvaroSi (ungreTi) di-

urgardeni (SvedeTi)

seltiki (Sotlandia) reikia-

viki (islandia)

legia (poloneTi) drita (ko-

sovo)/linfildi (Crd.irlandia)

Serifi (moldova) fola (lu-

qsemburgi)

konani (uelsi) saraevo (bos-

nia-hercegovina)

crvena zvezda (serbeTi)

evropa (gibraltari)

buduCnosti

(montenegro)

ludogoreci (bulgareTi)

arara-armenia (somxeTi) omo-

nia (kviprosi)

floriana (malta) kluJi (ru-

mineTi)

makabi (T-a, israeli) riga

(latvia)

yarabaRi (azerbaijani) sile-

ksi (makedonia)

dinamo (bresti, belarusi) as-

tana (yazaxeTi)

miolde (norvegia) kupsi (fin-

eTi)

flora (estoneTi)

suduva

(lietuva)

celie (slovenia) dandalki

(irlandia)

klaksvikari (farerebi) slo-

vani (slovakeTi)

es sokratesia!

braziliis nakrebis istoriaSi bevri legendaruli

fexburTeli yofila. aseTebi axlac

uamravi hyavT, magram sokratesi mainc

yvelasgan gamorCeulia. Znelia, mas yvela

drois saukeTeso brazilieli fexburTeli

uwodo, amaSi mas minimum pele Seecileba, magram

bevri iyo iseTi, romlebic Tanamemamuleebis,

ubralo adamianebis cxovrebis gaumjobesebaze

zrunavdnen? raRac, gveeWveba...

sokratesi mindorze Tavmdabali iyo. metic,

bolo momentamde yoymanobda botafogosTan

kontraqtis gaformebas, radgan

darwmunebuli iyo, rom misi momavali medicinasTan

iqneboda dakavSirebuli.

siWabukeSi fexburTi misTvis mecadineobisgan

gantvirTvis saukeTeso saSualeba

iyo. Tumca xSirad ver axerxebda ezoSi gasvlas,

radgan mecadineobisgan da mSoblebis

yuradRebisgan Tavis daRweva advili ar iyo.

Tumca patara filosofosi ufrosebTan

TamaSis drosac ki araCveulebriv rameebs

sCadioda moedanze.

sokratesma samedicino ganaTlebis diplomi

23 wlisam miiRo, paralelurad botafogoSi

TamaSs agrZelebda. movida arCevanis

gakeTebis dro. is ukve apirebda hospitalSi

samuSaod gadasvlas, mamis survili

rom Seesrulebina da Tavi medicinisTvis

mieZRvna, roca botafogom iseTi sarfiani

kontraqti SesTavaza, samedicino sfero

droebiT miiviwya.

ukve maSin mas mosvenebas ar aZlevda idea

- saxelmwifoebrivi mowyobis modeli - romlis

wyalobiTac brazilia ayvavdeboda.

acofebda klubebis xelmZRvanelebis damokidebuleba

fexburTelebisadmi. am ukanasknelebs,

faqtobrivad, arCevani ar gaaCndaT,

maT bed-iRbals bosebi gankargavdnen.

amis naTeli magaliTia pelec, romelic

politikuri TamaSebis msxverpli gaxda. maSindelma

prezidentma, kvadrosma, kanonmdeblobaSi

raRac xvrelebi ipova, romlis

mixedviTac peles ucxour klubebTan kontraqtis

gaformeba ekrZaleboda. Sedegad,

verasodes gavigebT jamSi ramdeni goli

gaitana fexburTis mefem.

evropaSi rom eTamaSa, raodenobasTan

dakavSirebiT problema ar iqneboda. soflis

samoyvarulo klubebTan gatanili saeWvo

raodenobis golebi ki mis realur istorias

amaxinjebs.

sokratess miaCnda, rom mxolod demokratiuli

mowyoba gadaarCenda brazilias. iq

xom 1964 wlidan xunta marTavda qveyanas.

misTvis TvalsaCino iyo mamis magaliTi,

romelic safexur-safexur miiwevda win

karieraSi, magram xmas ver iRebda autaneli

cenzuris winaaRmdeg.

„maxsovs, 10 wlis viyavi, roca vucqire

rogor wvavda mama wignebs bolSevikebis

Sesaxeb. maSin davinteresdi politikiT, fexburTma

cota mogvianebiT gamitaca”, _ ambobda

sokratesi.

„korinTiansSi” gadasvlam is braziliis

yvelaze popularul fexburTelad aqcia.

man, faqtobrivad, Sidakluburi demokratia

daamyara. klubs daaxloebiT 20 milioni

gulSematkivari hyavda, romelTa umetesoba

proletariats warmoadgenda. amitom

maqsimalurad ganimsWvalnen sokratesis

filosofiiT. „korinTianuli demokratiac”

ki daarqves am process. erTxel klubis fexburTelebi

aseTi baneriT gavidnen mindorze:

„moige an waage, oRond demokratiiT”.

amas ukve saxalxo gamosvlebic mohyva.

san paulus quCebSi 1,5 milioni adamiani

gavida, romlebic cvlilebebs iTxovdnen.

sokratesi italiaSi, „fiorentinaSi” wavida,

magram iq didxans ver gaZlo, erT weliwadSi

dabrunda da braziliaSi situacia Secvlili

daxvda. iq ukve legitimuri prezidenti

aerCiaT da diqtaturis nasaxic aRar

iyo. kariera man adreul asakSi daasrula.

viTom motivacia aRar hqonda? mTavari

mzezi mainc sxva iyo. is arasodes yofila

sanimuSo sportsmeni. ambobda kidec, _ antisportsmeni

varo. misi sayvareli sasmeli

ludi gaxldaT, romelsac is didi raodenobiT

miirTmevda. dReSi ramdenime kolof

sigaretsac eweoda.

1981 wels braziliis nakrebi evropul

turneSi gaemgzavra. erT-erTi matCis Semdeg

Jurnalisti gasaxdelSi Sevida da

Sokirebuli darCa nanaxiT: vyelgan carieli

ludis qilebi da sigaretis kolofebi

eyara. roca Jurnalistma mowiwebiT uTxra,

egeb es rekvizitebi mogvecilebina, kadrSi

rom ar gamoCndeso, sokratesma upasuxa: vsvam

roca momindeba da erTi mama ukve myavs,

meore ar mWirdebao. is 2011 wels gardaicvala

57 wlisa. sainteresoa, imave dRes korinTiansi

braziliis Cempioni gaxda.

aseTi iyo Cinebuli fexburTeli da medikosi.

is saxelmwifos klinikebisa da hospitlebis

SenebaSi exmareboda. adamianebis

janmrTlobaze zrunavda, Tavisas ki ver

gaufrTxilda.

misma moqmedebam didwilad ganapiroba

braziliis demokratiul qveynad gardaqmna,

gacilebiT adre, vidre sxva samxre-

Tamerikuli qveynebisa.

46

46 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.


saqarTvelo Sotlandias

24 oqtombers gaavarjiSebs

Sotlandiurma mediam gaavrcela cnoba,

romlis mixedviTac am qveynis moragbeTa

erovnuli nakrebi 24 oqtombers „biti marifildze”

saqarTvelos nakrebs umaspinZlebs.

skotebma 31 oqtombers 2020 wlis „eqvsi

eris” bolo turis gadadebuli matCebi unda

gamarTon. borjRalosnebTan matCs ki am

TamaSisTvis mosamzadeblad ganixilaven. Sexvedris

gasamarTad axla mxolod msoflio

ragbisgan da eqvsi erisgan Tanxmobis miRebaRaa

darCenili.

rogorc publikaciis avtori wers, Semodgomis

matCebamde daaxloebiT sami Tvea

darCenili da ucnobia, dauSveben Tu ara

gulSematkivrebs tribunebze. amis Taobaze

Sotlandiis mTavrobis gadawyvetileba

mogvianebiT gaxdeba cnobili.

saqarTvelos nakrebi 31 oqtombers erTa

Tasis gamotovebul matCSi ruseTis nakrebs

umaspinZlebs. noembris testebis sxva metoqeebi

ki ucnobia. Tumca es yvelaferi jer

araoficialuria da is oficialurad 30 ivliss

msoflio ragbim unda daadasturos.

Sengelia, biTaZe, ssrk, korona

msubuqi forvardebi

iugoslavia: boian bogdanoviCi,

hezonia, luCiCi (aseve veteranebi

simoni da micovi);

ssrk: timma, yurbanovi, gedraitisi,

karasiovi.

aq Tanabari Zalebia

ronaldu

parizSi midis?

kriStianu ronaldus irgvliv

isev didi miTqma-moTqmaa. portugalielma

varskvlavma, SesaZloa,

„iuventusi” datovos. ronaldu,

Tavis droze, turinul klubSi im

imediT gadavida, rom CempionTa

ligas kidev erTxel moigebda, Tumca

ukve meore sezonia, amas ver

axerxebs da amitom gundis Secvlaze

dafiqrda. man agents axali

klubis moZebna sTxova.

italiuri wyaro irwmuneba, rom

JorJe mendeSma psJ-s sportul direqtor

leonardosTan ukve daiwyo

molaparakebebi. parizelebs

ronaldus gadabireba 2019 welsac

surdaT, Tumca goleadorma „beber

qalbatons” uerTgula.

sagulisxmoa, rom mas mere, rac

ronaldu „iuventusSi” gadavida,

ligis plei ofSi goli mxolod

kriStianum gaitana. wleuls „iuves”

maqsimumi 1/8 finali aRmoCnda,

saidanac „lionma” gaagdo.

liga lisabonSi iwyeba

da damTavrdeba

12-15 agvistos portugaliaSi CempionTa ligis meoTxedfinale-

bi daiwyeba, 18-19 agvistos naxevarfinalebi Sedgeba, 23 agvistos

ki finali gaimarTeba, romelsac lisabonis da luJi umaspinZlebs.

meoTxedfinalebSi ki eseni iTamaSeben:

„manCester siti” (inglisi) da „lioni” (safrangeTi)

„laifcigi” (germania) „atletiko” (espaneTi)

„barselona” (espaneTi) da „baierni” (germania)

„atalanta” (italia) „pari sen Jermeni” (safrangeTi)

naxevarfinalSi pirveli wyvilis gamarjvebuli mesame wyvilis

gamarjvebulis Sexvdeba; meore wyvilis gamarjvebuli _ meoTxe

wyvilis gamarjvebuls.

N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

sabWoTa kavSiri da iugoslavia

rom ar daSliliyo, axla romeli

nakrebi ufro Zlieri iqneboda? _

am kiTxvaze pasuxi cnobil rus sakalaTburTo

eqspertsa da komentator

vladimir gomelskis sTxoves.

misi sityva ki CvenTvis saintereso

gamodga. gomelskim ssrk-s nakrebis

SemadgenlobaSi ori qarTveli

kalaTburTeli axsena Tornike Sengelia

da goga biTaZe.

„dRevandeli sabWoTa kavSirisa

da iugoslaviis nakrebebis SesaZleblobebi

rom ganmexila, amisTvis

ori saaTi damWirda. unda Sememowmebina

NBA-s, evroligisa da

evroTasis yvela Semadgenloba. Tu

ra gamomivida, amas poziciebis mixedviT

getyviT:

gamTamaSeblebi

iuagolsavia: donCiCi, musa,

miCiCi, ioviCi (aseve TeodosiCi);

ssrk: xvostovi da lekiaviCusi.

gamTamaSeblebSi aSkara upiratesoba

iugoslavias aqvs

Semtevi mcvelebi

iugoslavia: bogdan bogdanovi-

Ci, dedoviCi, guduruCi;

ssrk: Svedi, grigonisi, mixailiuki.

aq odnav ukeTesi ssrk iqneboda

mZime forvardebi

iugoslavia: SariCi, samaniCi,

smailagiCi

ssrk: porzingisi, sabonisi, Sengelia

(aseve kuruci da bertansi).

ssrk-s udidesi upiratesoba

aqvs

centrebi

iugoslavia: iokiCi, nurkiCi,

vuCeviCi, zubaci (aseve marianovi-

Ci da milutinovi)

ssrk: valanCunasi, leni, gudaiti

(aseve biTaZe da paseCniki)

iugoslaviis sruli upiratesoba.

poziciebiT iugoslavielebs

upiratesoba aqvT, saqme mwvrTnelebSic

aris. balkanelebs hyavT

obradoviCi, kokoSkovi, mitroviCi,

xolo ssrk-s iasikaviCusi da bazareviCi.

aqac iugoslavebi igeben.

sxvaTa Soris, moskovis cska-m,

romelTanac cota xnis win Tornike

Sengeliam samwliani kontraqti

gaaforma, mTavari mwvrTneli dakarga.

berZeni dimitris itudisi koronavirusiT

dainficirda da gundi

pirvel winasasezono Sekrebas

mis gareSe Caatarebs.

amis Sesaxeb klubis oficialuri

saiti iuwyeba. itudisi ukve 6

welia, rac rusebs wvrTnis.

bubkas kievSi olimpiada miaqvs

ukrainis olimpiuri komitetis

prezidenti sergei bubka qveyanaSi

2028 an 2030 wlis olimpiuri TamaSebis

maspinZlobaze ganacxadis

momzadebis sakiTxs ganixilavs.

samTavrobo sxdomaze Sesabamisi

informacia gaavrcela yofilma mofarikavem

da olimpielma, amJamad

ukrainis axalgazrdobisa da sportis

ministrma vadim gutcaitma.

misi TqmiT, proeqtis ganxorcieleba

mniSvnelovan biZgs miscems masobrivi

sportisa da maRali miRwevebis

sportis ganviTarebas, kerZod

ki xels Seuwyobs zamTris saxeobebs.

aseve cnobilia, rom ukraina saerTaSoriso

olimpiuri komitetis

prezident Tomas baxis vizitisTvis

emzadeba, romelsac olimpiuri

TamaSebis maspinZlobisTvis ganacxadis

momzadebas gaacnoben.

erTi wlis winaT ukarinis prezidentma

vladimir zelenskim ministrTa

kabinetsa da sportis mesveurebs

romelime olimpiuri Tama-

Sebis maspinZlobisTvis brZola daavala.

erT-erT variantad ganixileboda

belarusTan TamaSebis er-

Toblivad Catareba.

47

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

kviris horoskopi

verZi

yvela rTuli saqmeebi am periodis ganmavlobaSi

dagegmeT. didi Sansia, rom Sedegma

Tqvens molodins gadaaWarbos. axali nacnoboba

SeiZleba vnebian grZnobaSi gadaizardos.

irgvliv mimoixedeT! zodiaqos am niSnis warmomadgenlebs,

romlebic dietaze arian, mouwevT

cdunebebs gaumklavdnen.

kuro

bevri saqme da sazrunavi geqnebaT, da ara

marto… Tumca amiT ufro bednieri da gaxarebuli

iqnebiT, vidre piriqiT. SemoqmedebiTi

profesiebis kuroebs SeuZliaT

ufrosebs saintereso ideebi SesTavazon. nu

SegeSinebaT maTTvis kargi xelfasis moTxovna.

Tu vinme daxmarebas gTxovT, gansakuTrebiT

aramaterialurs, uari ar uTxraT!

tyupi

es kvira savse iqneba wvrilmani usiamovnebebiT.

didi problema TiTqos araa, magram

ganwyobas gagifuWebT. SesaZlebelia bevri

gegma CageSaloT, adamianebi, romelTa imedic

gqondaT, dagaRalateben. amis miuxedavad

nerviuloba mainc ar Rirs – yvelaferi Sei-

Zleba male sasikeTod Semobrundes, amitom

SeecadeT SabaT-kvira kargad gaataroT –

magaliTad, megobrebTan erTad.

kirCxibi

varskvlavebi girCeven, aranair furclebs

xeli ar moaweroT, arsebobs didi albaToba,

rom mogatyueben! martoxela kirCxibebs romantikuli

urTierToba eliT, Tumca xangr-

Zliv, seriozul urTierTobaze nu ifiqrebT.

garemos Secvla kargi iqneba – es SeiZleba

iyos, mag., ramdenimedRiani mogzauroba sxva

qalaqSi.

lomi

frTxilad iyaviT yovelTvis, rodesac

saqme fuls exeba. umjobesia Tanxa aravis

asesxoT da didi SenaZenebisganac Tavi

SeikaveT. sasiyvarulo urTierTobebSi mSvidoba

damyardeba. isinic ki Serigdebian, vinc

didi xania naCxubaria. kargad gaiazreT, sanam

nebismier sakiTxze azrs gamoTqvamT!

qalwuli

kviris Sua ricxvebSi zodiaqos am niSnis

warmomadgenlebma Tavi SeiZleba uzomod daRlilad

da Zalagamoclilad igrZnon. es advilad

ikurneba – dasvenebiT. moklevadiani

Svebuleba gWirdebaT. samsaxurSi ufrTxildiT

kolegebs, SesaZloa xrikebs giwyobdnen. yuradRebiT

iyaviT da Tavi aravis daaCagvrinoT.

saswori

dinebas mihyeviT da nu miiRebT globalur

gadawyvetilebebs – es aris saukeTeso

ram, rac SegiZliaT axla gaakeToT. yvela

wamowyebaSi axloblebi dagexmarebian. kviris

Sua ricxvebSi sayidlebze wadiT, iSopingeT!

didi Sansia, rom bevr sasargeblo nivTs, saCuqars

SeiZenT da am yvelaferSi bevri fuli

ar dagexarjebaT.


yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi

erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba

saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze

yovelkvireuli

gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari

pirveli gverdi:

1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;

meore-mesame gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;

Sida gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;

bolos wina gverdi:

1sm 2 _2 lari;

bolo gverdi:

1sm 2 _ 3 lari,

maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;

mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _

1000 sm 2;

reklama CanarTis saxiT:

A3 3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;

A4 4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;

mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)

kviris horoskopi

morieli

aravis gauziaroT Tqveni azrebi, winaaaRmdeg

SemTxvevaSi daucveli iqnebiT. am kviraSi

Tqvens sayvarel adamianTan xSiri Cxubis

didi albaTobaa. mTavaria Serigeba ar daayovnoT,

radgan urTierTobis gawyvetis riskis

qveS xarT. finansur sakiTxebSi yvelaferi

mTlad kargad ver iqneba. ubralod, cota

moTmineba gWirdebaT, sanam es periodi Caivlis.

mSvildosani

axla ar Rirs Tqveni survilebis mixedviT

imoqmedoT – isini SeiZleba cru aRmoCndes.

SeiZleba iseTi saqmeebis gakeTeba

mogixdeT, romlebic ar mogwonT. axloblebi

ise gagaxareben, rom guneba gamogikeTdebaT.

samsaxurSi usiamovnebac ki ver gagifu-

WebT am ganwyobas.

Txis rqa

jerjerobiT Tqvens cxovrebaSi axali

araferi moxdeba, magram es ukeTesicaa. axla

jobia Zveli saqmeebi moagvaroT. Tu SesaZlebloba

gaqvT, Tqveni pasuxismgebloba sxvis

mxrebze gadaitanoT, gaakeTeT es. mTavaria,

wvrilmanebze nu idardebT da inerviulebT.

merwyuli

ukonfliqto periodi geliT. ise damSviddebiT,

rom ukve didi xania aseTi siamovneba

ar gigrZvniaT. droa Tqveni ocnebebi realobad

aqcioT! izruneT amaze. samsaxurSi

SesaZlebelia cvlilebebi. amasTan, viRacas

gaumarTlebs, viRacas SeiZleba samsaxuris

datoveba mouxdes.

Tevzebi

Tevzebi odnav Caiketnen sakuTar TavSi,

rac erTi mxriv, maT TviTkmarobaze metyvelebs,

meore mxriv ki, aman SeiZleba ziani moutanoT.

megobrebTan urTierToba, azrebisa da

gamocdilebebis gacvla – rogorc piradis,

ise saqmianis – cxovrebis aranakleb mniSvnelovani

nawilia. winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi

riskavT, rom win ver waxvalT.

1 aSS dolari

3.0743

1 evro

3.6138

1 girvanqa sterlingi

4.0061

100 rusuli rubli

4.1709

amindi

samSabaTi

oTxSabaTi

xuTSabaTi

paraskevi

SabaTi

kvira

orSabaTi

Tbilisi

28-30 0

29-31 0

28-30 0

29-30 0

28-31 0

24-26 0

25-27 0

quTaisi

24-26 0

25-27 0

26-28

24-25 0

23-26 0

27-29 0

26-28 0

baTumi

26-28 0

27-29 0

25-27 0

23-25 0

24-25 0

25-27 0

23-25 0

zugdidi

25-27 0

26-28 0

27-30 0

25-27 0

23-26 0

24-26 0

26-28 0

gori

24-26 0

25-27 0

23-25 0

24-26 0

21-23 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

Telavi

30-33 0

31-32 0

30-32 0

27-30 0

28-30 0

26-28 0

25-27 0

foTi

27-29 0

26-28 0

27-30 0

25-27 0

26-28 0

27-30 0

29-30 0

48

saredaqcio kolegia

yvela ufleba daculia;

`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli

masalebis nebismieri saxiT

gamoyeneba da gavrceleba

redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad

akrZalulia!

gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul

masalebs aqvT sareklamo

xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia

SeiZleba ar daemTxves

redaqciis Sexedulebas.

mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)

marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22

rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06

SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50

mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55

injgia nene 591 71 39 98

sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 81

qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40

mamulaZe xviCa 598 41 12 26

deviZe daviT

stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;

redaqciis misamarTi:

Tbilisi, gudauris N3,

pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;

tel.: 294 69 77;

sareklamo ganyofileba,

gavrcelebis samsaxuri

Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10

gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~

ISSN 2346-8025

294 69 77;

qronikaqronika@gmail.com

48 N19 (321) 11.08-17.08.2020 w.

qronika+321

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