qronika+327

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com

yovelkvireuli gazeTi

gamodis samSabaTobiT N25 (327) 20.10

10.20

.2020

fasi 2 lari

malxaz maCalikaSvili:

gv. 6

`qarTuli

ocneba~ soso

gogaSvilis

dakavebas

gegmavs~

gia nodia:

`kartografebis

saqme~

TeTri

ZafebiT

nakeria~

gv. 14

ani rexviaSvili:

àdamianebs

ndoba,

Rirseuli

realobisa

da momavlis

gancda unda

daubrundeT!~

gv. 18

giorgi gaxaria - vaxtang goZiaSvils:

`sistemam miiRo

gadawyvetileba, rom Sen unda

gaxvide am biznesidan...~

gv. 2

biznesis warTmevis skandaluri istoria!

roin abuseriZe: `radgan wavida

Jini da movida analitika...~

gv. 34

lado kaxaZe:

`Cven

xelisuflebas

ki ara,

erTianobas

vukravdiT

taSs!~

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

Tamar korZaia:

`biZina

ivaniSvili

da `qarTuli

ocneba~ unda

wavides, maTi

dro amoiwura~

gv. 16 gv. 5 gv. 24

gigla baramiZe:

`qarTulma

ocnebam~

momavali

arCevnebis

gayalbeba

daaanonsa~

1


biznesis warTmevis

biznesis warTmevis

rva wlis win, zustad am dros,

eliso kilaZe

xelisuflebaSi mosuli gamarjvebu-

599 17 12 12

li Zala, anu „qarTuli ocneba” biz-

ness Tavisufal sunTqvas dahpirda.

maSindeli premier-ministri biZina ivaniSvili piradad Sexvda

qarTuli biznesis warmomadgenlebs da maT daxmarebac aRuTqva.

mas mere bevrma wyalma Caiara, yvela msxvil bizness qveyanaSi

seriozuli problemebi Seeqmna, ar darCenila sfero, romelSic

sxvadasxva dros xelisuflebis gavleniani warmomadgenlebi an

maTi naTesavebi ar Careuliyvnen. gvarebi imis mixedviT icvle-

boda, romeli klani dawinaurdeboda xolme ivaniSvilis karze.

elaparaka irakli tripolski irakli

RaribaSvils telefonze/ visxediT

„redisonSi”, Sexvedra gvqonda,

es laparaki ar iyo erTjeradi,

aeseTi saubari ramdenjerme

Sedga da im periodSi RaribaSvili

absoluturad saqmis kursSi iyo.

Tumca, mogvianebiT, rogorc gavarkvie,

swored RaribaSvilis, kaxelebis

jgufisa da Tamaz TamazaSvilis

iniciativiT Cemze dezinformacia

miutanes biZina ivaniSvils,

Tumca amaze cota mogviane-

vedrodi gaxarias da is damexmareboda

am sqemis dalagebaSi.

_ am dros gaxaria biznesom-

budsmenia?

_ diax!.. marTlac daviwyeT sakmaod

intensiuri muSaoba gaxariasTan.

momTxova Cemi generaluri

SeTanxmeba, romelic mere, roca Camanacvles,

pirdapir „kopi feisTiT”

gadaitanes sxva kompaniaze,

ubralod, generaluri SeTanxmeba

amoiRes, radgan TviTon amerikelebic

wavidnen eqskluzivze wina-

liyvnen da ganexorcielebinaT

RonisZiebebi, rom es Segvewyvita

da TeTri sqemiT gvemuSava... mar-

Tlac, daiwyo xelisuflebam moqmedeba.

es SegiZliaT gadaamowmoT.

finansurma policiam bevri

kompaniis warmomadgeneli daakava,

gadaketes mTeli „levi” warmoeba.

megona, es Cven xelSesawyobad keTdeboda,

Tumca mere rogorc

gamoCnda, amas imitom akeTebdnen,

rom sakuTar Tavze moergoT es

biznesi. martivad rom vTqvaT, Cemi

giorgi gaxaria

vaxtang goZiaSvils:

`sistemam miiRo

gadawyvetileba, rom

Sen unda gaxvide am

biznesidan...~

„qronika+~ „ocnebis” usamarT-

lobis erTgvar mematianed iqca.

dRes kidev erT aseT istorias

mogiyvebiT uCa mamacaSvilma da

Tamaz TamazaSvilma biznesombudsmen

giorgi gaxarias daxmarebiT

rogor aaxies biznesi biznes-

men vaxtang goZiaSvils.

_ me var vaxtang goZiaSvili,

kompania MN GEORGIA-s erT-erTi

mflobeli. kompania „jorjian amerikan

eloisTan” kargi urTierToba

gvqonda. vflobdiT informacias,

ra ganukiTxaoba iyo marganecis

mopovebis biznesSi WiaTuraSi.

Savad muSaobis gamo sakmaod

didi Tanxebi ikargeboda, _ es informacia

gvqonda TviTon WiaTuraSi

biznesSi CarTuli adamianebisgan.

aqedan gamomdinare, „jorjian

amerikan eloizis” xelmZRvanelobas

SevTavaze, auTsorsingis TeTri

sqema gagvekeTebina, gavakeTeT

monaxazi. sanam davafuZnebdiT MN

GEORGIA-s kompanias, manamde erTi

weli vimuSaveT imaze, Tu rogor

unda gagvekeTebina es, zogadad

rogor unda emuSava auTsorsingis

Temas gareT da aqedan gamomdinare,

sadRac, 8-9 Tvis TanamSromlobisa

da seriozuli muSaobis 9

Tvis Tavze davafuZneT kompania

MN GEORGIA, romelmac eqskluziuri

xelSekruleba-SeTanxmeba gaaforma

„jorjian manganezTan” da

mTlianad Cven unda gvewarmoebina

garemopoveba, anu auTsorsingi...

_ romeli welia?

_ oficialuri xelSekruleba

gaformda 2014 wlis pirvel aprils...

_ anu „ocnebis” xelisuflebis

pirobebSi?

_ diax... anu, zogadad, auTsorsingi

Cveni gakeTebuli, Cveni mogonili

sistemaa. roca davTvaleT,

absoluturad gulwrfelad getyviT,

wminda mogeba kompaniaSi iyo

14 milioni dolari weliwadSi, Sesabamisad,

Zalian didi raodenobis

Tanxa ikargeboda biujetSi.

_ daiwyeT muSaoba, Semdeg?

_ urTierToba mqonda biZina

ivaniSvilis ojaxTan Zalian daaxloebul

pirTan, parlamentis wevr

irakli tripolskisTan. misi meSveobiT

davukavSirdiT xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebs, rom iq, Sav biznesSi,

Tavidan bolomde CarTuli

iyvnen xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi.

aqedan gamomdinare vTxoveT

daxmareba.

_ davazustoT, vis gulisxmobT

xelisuflebis warmomadgenelSi?

vis sTxoveT daxmareba?

_ uSualod premier-ministr

irakli RaribaSvils. Cem Tvalwin

biT... mokled, davukavSirdiT xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebs, konkretulad

premier-ministrs, piradad

me vTxove tripolskis Caeyenebina

ivaniSvili saqmis kursSi da

man miTxra, rom Caayena saqmis kursSi.

vici, rom yvela gadawyvetileba

biZina ivaniSvilis mier aris mi-

Rebuli. Cems sqemaSi CaerTo misi

deidaSvili uCa mamacaSvili da

iqidan gamomdinare, rom me momiwia

SeerTebul StatebSi wasvla, rom

sabolood dagvezustebina Cveni

muSaobis principi, rogorc ki davbrundi,

gaviare konsultaciebi

kidev erTxel am parlamentarTan,

momces giorgi gaxarias telefonis

nomeri da gadmomces uCa mamacaSvilis

danabarebi, rom Sevx-

aRmdegi da im kompanias gauformes,

romelic Tavisi „locva-kur-

TxeviT” Seiyvanes. dasawyisSi sakmaod

produqtiuli da nayofieri

Sexvedrebi mqonda (yovel SemTxvevaSi,

me ase vfiqrobdi) imdroindel

garemos dacvis ministr xaTuna

gogalaZesTan, elguja xokriSvilTan

misive iniciativiT, Tumca,

etyoba, sqemas miyvnen da roca naxes,

gaxaria da ivaniSvili idgnen am

saqmis saTaveSi, imwuTasve, rogorc

ki kabinetidan gamovedi, zari

damawies, _ am saqmidan araferi gamovao...

_ vaxo, rodesac Tqven da gax-

aria erTmaneTs xvdebodiT, raze

saubrobdiT uCa mamacaSvilis

danabarebiT? ra iyo am Sexvedreb-

is Sinaarsi?

_ gulwrfelad mjeroda: iqidan

gamomdinare, rom qveynis xelisuflebaSi

iyo biznesmeni, alalad

getyviT, _ ar mqonda ivaniSvilze

imis warmodgena, rom is iyo xarbi

kaci da ase daxurdavdeboda, aseT

wvrilman detalebze Camovidoda.

Tu adamians politikasTanac gaqvs

Sexeba da zogadad ici, qveyanaSi ra

xdeba, SeiZleba garkveuli warmodgenebi

Segeqmnas, magram gulwrfelad

geubnebiT, namdvilad ar

megona ivaniSvili Tu aseT Temeb-

Si daiwyebda sakuTari interesebis

Cadebas, aqedan gamomdinare, Teoriulad

Zalian nayofierad vimu-

SaveT da Tavidan bolomde gaviareT

sqema, Tu rogor moxdeboda Semosavlebis

legalizacia. giorgi

gaxaria Tavidan bolomde Cavaxede

TemaSi da davanaxe, rom Zalian

didi raodenobis Tanxa ikargeboda

yovelwliurad biujetSi. Cemi

mTavari moTxovna xelisuflebis

mimarT iyo is, rom unda CarTu-

idea moipares, pirdapir gadaiweres

da Cem gareSe gaagrZeles

muSaoba.

_ Tqven Soris uTanxmoeba

rogor daiwyo?

_ roca imdroindel garemos

dacvis ministr xaTuna gogalaZes

SevxvdiT da avuxseniT, ra situacia

iyo, rom mosagvarebeli iyo

ekologiis kuTxiTac, bevri problemaa

da amaSi garemos dacvis

saministroc unda dagvxmareboda...

Tavidan bolomde sqema gaviareT.

megona, yvelaferze SevTanxmdiT

da roca iqidan gamovdiodiT,

liftSi giorgi gaxariam miTxra,

rom Sen garda kidev erTi kompania

imuSavebso. uari vuTxari, _ Tuki

Cem garda Semoiyvandnen kidev sxva

kompanias, mag SemTxvevaSi veRar

viqnebodi pasuxismgebeli, rom es

Tema gaTeTrdeboda... martivad

getyviT, biznesis enaze rom vilaparakoT,

absoluturad aramomgebiani

iqneboda.

_ monopolias iTxovdiT, mar-

to unda yofiliyaviT?

_ ara, monopolia ver iqneboda.

martivad agixsniT: Tqveni saxlis

asaSeneblad me rom damiqiravoT,

monopolisti viqnebi? me damiqirava

licenziis mqone kompaniam, romelsac

mopovebis 40-wliani licenzia

aqvs, ubralod, momsaxurebis

gawevaze, me mxolod garemopoveba

unda mewarmoebina da iseTi

kompaniisTvis mimetana, romelic

am licenzias flobs. ase rom, aq

monopolia arafer SuaSia. Tumca,

mogvianebiT, gaxariam gaakeTa amaze

aqcenti, rom me vcdilobdi monopoliis

mopovebas. dRes igive sqemiT

muSaobs giorgi kapanaZis igive

„riJas” kompania.

_ sanam „riJamde” mividodeT,

2 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


skandaluri istoria!

davazustoT: rodesac uari uTx-

ariT gaxarias, rom kidev erTi

kompania unda damateboda am sf-

eros, ra reaqcia hqonda mas da

rogor ganviTarda movlenebi?

_ meore dRes Sexvedra mqonda

daniSnuli „gratos” SenobaSi uCa

mamacaSvilTan da am Temis dayenebas

vapirebdi, radgan mivxvdi,

rom winaaRmdegoba ukve sakmaod

maRlidan modioda. gaxariam Cemi

da uCa mamacaSvilis Sexvedris

Sesaxeb ar icoda. meore dRes 3-is

naxevarze damireka, rom es Sexvedra

gadaidoo. Sesabamisad, amiT

miTxres, rom Cvengan modis es iniciativa

da nu ibrZvio.

_ anu uCa mamacaSvils unda

SexvedrodiT da ver SexvdiT, Tu

SexvdiT da meore dRes uari

giTxraT?

_ ara, uCa mamacaSvils mag Sexvedraze

veRar Sevxvdi... uCa mamacaSvils

Sevxvdi irakli tripolskisTan

erTad „gratos” SenobasTan,

gareT. Zalian mcire droiT

gvqonda saubari. magram Sexvedra,

sadac ukve Zalian produqtiulad

unda gagvevlo es Tema da ukve

siRrmeebSi unda SevsuliyaviT, ve-

Rar Sedga. kidev erTxel vusvam

xazs: roca ministrisgan gamovediT

da imaze visaubreT, rom kidev sxva

kompania iqneboda, razedac Cemgan

uari miiRes, gadawyvetili mqonda,

es gameprotestebina. TviTon gaxariam

damireka meore dRes 3-is

naxevarze, rom es Sexvedra gadaidoo.

maqsimum, 4-5 dRe iyo gasuli,

rom isev damiZaxa giorgi gaxariam.

erTmaneTs „qorTiard meriotSi”

SevxvdiT da iq zustad am sityvebiT

miTxra: sistemam miiRo

gadawyvetileba, rom Sen unda gaxvide

am biznesidan. pirdapiri konteqstiT

aseTi naTqvami iyo: Seni

arCevaniT an daupirispirdebi

sistemas, an arao... kidev isic gaaxmovana,

rom gadawyvetileba miiRes,

am sqemidan yvela kmayofili gavideso

da damiTqves Sexvedra

Tamaz somxiSvilis erT-erT menejer

jani mixailovTan...

_ vin aris Tamaz somxiSvili?

_ zustad mec ar vici, vin aris.

vici, rom moskoveli biznesmenia.

misi kompania Cemi kompaniis nacvlad

Sevida. misi menejeri jani mixailovi

xelmZRvanelobda, magram

pirovnulad Tamaz somxiSvils ar

vicnob... WiaTuraSi sami kompania

Sevida _ jani mixailovis, Zmebi Cxenkelebis,

romlebic kaxelebis

klans warmoadgenen, kidev erTi

kompania iyo roman fifiasi, oRond

pirveli Cem mere gauformes xelSekruleba

roman fifias kompanias,

Tumca masTan aranairi pirovnuli

pretenzia ar maqvs, is biznesmenia.

ubralod, sistemam dauZaxa

da sTxova, Sedio da Sevida. arc

vicnobdi, erTmaneTs arasdros

SevxvedrivarT.

_ fifia, kaxelebis dajgufeba

da uCa mamacaSvilis moskoveli

biznespartniori _ ase ganawilda

WiaTuraSi biznesi. roca somxiS-

vilis kompaniis warmomadgenlebs

SexvdiT, ra moxda am Sexvedraze?

_ Cems kompanias madnis mosapoveblad

winaswar aRebuli hqonda

garkveuli Tanxa da miTxres,

rom am Tanxas maCuqebdnen, gadamifaravdnen

da unda gavsuliyavi

sqemidan. es CemTvis absoluturad

miuRebeli winadadeba iyo, razedac

uari vuTxari. mTxovdnen, MN

GEORGIA gadameca, maT undodaT

eqskluziuri SeTanxmeba, es mizani

hqondaT. ra Tqma unda, es kompania

ar gadaveci, oRond roca iqidan

gamovedi, valdebulad CavTvale

Tavi, „jorjian manganezis” amerikeli

xelmZRvanelebi saqmis kursSi

Cameyenebina da mainteresebda maTi

pozicia. maTTan mainc gaviare, vu-

Txari, aseTi situaciaa-meTqi. miTxres,

rom ar dameTmo Cemi kompania,

Tumca amis Semdeg ise moxda,

rom Tavad „jorjian amerikan eloizi”

gaxades iZulebuli da pirdapir

uTxres, rom CemTan xelSekruleba

gaeuqmebina.

_ vin uTxra?

skandaluri istoria!

_ biznesombudsmenma giorgi

gaxariam... daibara lozinski, es

CanawerebSic Cans da uTxra, rom me

ar unda memuSava iq, xelSekruleba

unda gaeformebina roman fifiasTan

da jani mixailovis kompaniasTan.

asec gaakeTes. aprilSi Cveni

xelSekruleba gaformda da ukve

maisSi hqonda roman fifias xelSekruleba

gaformebuli da Tu

ar vcdebi, ivnisSi _ jani mixailovs.

rogorc ki Cveni tvirTebi

daiZra, pirveli ori manqana, garemos

dacvis samsaxurma, uSiSroebasTan

erTad, gadaketa gzebi da

ar mogvces saSualeba, produqcia

migvewodebina. Cven movaxerxeT

maqsimum 20-30 tonis miwodeba, metis

_ vera. gzebi gadaketes da

aRar gagviSves.

_ gzebi Cagiketes ras niSnavs?

_ rogorc ki trailerebi

daiZra, garemos dacvis manqanebi

Caudgnen da oficialurad gaaCeres.

absoluturi ganukiTxaoba

iyo. davuSvaT, monopolisti vyofiliyavi.

saxelmwifo rogor moqmedebs?

_ principi aseTia: minimum

erTi werili mainc unda mogweron,

rom Sen amas da amas akeTeb ama da

am kanons arRvevo.

_ molaparakebebis mcdelobe-

bi Tu iyo, vinme Suamavlebi Tu

modiodnen da Semdgom rogor

gagrZelda es urTierTobebi xe-

lisuflebis warmomadgenlebTan?

_ gaxarias da Cemi urTierTobebi

aq damTavrda. roca gamogvagdo

sqemidan, amis mere rom gavasajarove

es Tema, erTxel oficialuri

Sexvedra gvqonda, es saubari

arafrismomtani ar iyo, TviTon

sWirdebodaT piarisTvis. amis Semdeg

momiwia briuselSi wasvla. Cemi

iq yofnis periodSi uCa mamacaSvili

da biZina ivaniSvilis Zma

Sexvdnen Cems partniors. briuselidan

dabrunebuli, Cemma kompanionma

biZina ivaniSvilis klaseli,

maCabela momiyvana. momTxoves, misi

Svili Semeyvana wilSi. es Sexvedra

Zalian ucnaurad momeCvena. am kacma

miTxra, daanebe Tavi mtyuan-mar-

Tlis garCevas da simarTlis Zebnas,

yvelasTan erTad imuSaveo,

rac CemTvis principulad miuRebeli

iyo. mere uCa mamacaSvilma

irakli tripolskis piriT gadmomca,

rom unda Sevxvedrodi biznesmenebs

leri kapanaZes da zura iaSvils,

feros gakotrebis yofil

mmarTvels da isini biznesis 50%-

s iTxovdnen, uaris mere sabolood

gamibrazda uCa mamacaSvili.)))))

pirvel wels, daaxloebiT, madnis

80 procenti gaitanes Savad da

amaSi ras vgulisxmob: imis magivrad,

rom moepovebinaT, gadaemuSavebinaT

da CaetanaT, ferosTvis

miewodebinaT, Rame iparavdnen.

policia, yvela iyo saqmis

kursSi, es manqanebi dadiodnen

Rame eSelonebad da ubralod Seu-

Zlebelia SeumCneveli yofiliyo.

_ 100 dolari iyo erT man-

qanaze „stavka”...

_ diax, egre iyo zustad, yvela

xeirobda mag sqemiT, policia Tavisas

Wamda, zeviT kidev uCa, kaxelebi

da a.S. Turme, Rame rom itvirTeboda

WiaTuraSi koncentratiT,

eSelonebiT midiodnen, roca

Cven ori manqana Zlivs movaxerxeT

gagveSva da gadagviketes gzebi. intensiurad

midioda „rusmetalSi”

rusTavSi. „rusmetali” bolos

SeiZines jani mixailovma da Tamaz

somxiSvilma. mTlianad am madans,

rasac moipovebdnen, iparavdnen,

paravdnen saxelmwifos, paravdnen

„jorjian amerikan eloiss”,

amuSavebdnen da yididdnen,Savad...

_ „riJa” rodis gamoCnda?

_ „riJa” gamoCnda, Tu ar vcdebi,

daaxloebiT, 2016-17 wlebSi.

_ mas Semdeg, rac kaxelebi Cax-

snes...

_ kaxelebic Caxsnes, jani mixailovic

Caexsna, Tumca am detaleb-

Si ver Seval, ra moxda jani mixailovs,

somxiSvilsa da biZina ivaniSvils

Soris, radgan ar maqvs es informacia,

Sesabamisad, verafers

vityvi. „riJa” gamoCnda zustad

igive sqemiT, ra sqemiTac me unda

Sevsuliyavi. ubralod, is gaakeTes,

rom sasamarTloTi Seiyvanes menejmenti,

mTlianad gaagdes „jorjian

amerikan eloizic” menejmentidan.

formalurad hqviaT imaT

mflobelebi, Torem eseni sasamarTlo

dadgenilebiT Sevidnen...

_ Tavis droze, xelisuflebas

rom ar daTanxmebuliyvnen SeTavazebul

pirobebze da maTi moTx-

ovniT raRacebi ar gaekeTebinaT,

SeiZleba bevrad ukeTes mdgomar-

eobaSi yofiliyvnen, radgan es iyo

maTi licenzia da maTi gener-

aluri xelSekruleba.

_ ra Tqma unda, amaze winaswar

vafrTxilebdi, rom Tqvenc igive

dRe mogeliT-meTq- da maT ar undodaT

sxva kompaniebi eqskluziuri

SeTanxmebiT Semosuliyvnen,

radgan isini ukve xvdebodnen, rac

amaT hqondaT ganzraxuli. zustad

es sityvebi miTxres, _ roca Cems

quCaze, sadac ludis qarxana maqvs,

viRaca Cemnairive ludis jixurs

gamixsnis, ukve imas niSnavs, rom is

Cemi qarxnis miTvisebas cdilobso.

aseTi Sedareba imitom moiyvana,

rom xvdeboda ukve, marto auTsorsingiT

ar iyo saxelmwifo dainteresebuli,

mTlianad ferosa da

WiaTurmanganumis warTmeviT iyo

dainteresebuli.

_ moaxerxes kidec da Seiyvanes

„riJa”, radgan mas garkveuli „damsaxurebebi”

hqonda xelisufleb-

is winaSe,

_ aseve hqonda nacnoboba kalamoiskisTan

da gamoiyenes xidad.

kalamoiskisTan gaagzavnes „riJa”

Sexvedraze, molaparakebebze da

informacia maqvs, ra moxda im Sexvedraze

da ra dialogi hqondaT

maT. pirveli nabiji, rac saxelmwifom

ganaxorciela, me Camxsna am

sqemidan, Semdeg ukve Caxsnes „jorjian

amerikan eloizi”, Seiyvanes

„riJa” da Tavidan bolomde dRes

es sqema maTze muSaobs.

_ aravin icis zusti cifri, ra

Tanxas kargavs biujeti da ra

produqcia midis realurad?

_ ra Tqma unda. modiT, ase vTqvaT,

daTvladia es cifri, sadRac,

albaT, minimum, 20-dan 30 milionamde

kargavs biujeti yovel weliwads,

radgan kompania MN GEOR-

GIA-s gaTvlebidan gamomdinare,

yovelwliuri mogeba unda yofiliyo

14 milioni dolari.

gagrZeleba meoTxe gv.

axalcixeli qirurgi,

romelsac kolegebma

sicocxle SeunarCunes

aRmoCnde saWiro dros saWiro adgilas, xSirad sicocxlis

SenarCunebis tolfasia. swored sakuTarma profesiam

gadaarCina axalgazrda qirurgi da endoskopisti,

romelic morigeobis Semdgom dilis konferenciisTvis

mzadebis procesSi SeuZlod gaxda.

„gulmkerdis areSi imdenad Zlieri tkivili damewyo,

rom eqTans davuZaxe. mas Semdeg pirveli kadri pacientis

statusiT maxsovs. miyvebian, rom iatakze dacemuli mipoves.

gonebas periodulad vkargavdi da mesmoda, rogor

gegmavdnen Cems mkurnalobas kolegebi“, - pacientis ampluaSi

ixsenebs sakuTar ambavs axalcixeli qirurgi.

pacientis diagnozi aortis ganSreveba aRmoCnda da misi

mdgomareoba Zalian mZimed Sefasda. kardioqirurg sulxan

lominaZesTan uSualo konsultirebis Semdeg axalcixis

referaluri hospitalis eqimi kavkasiis medicinis

centrSi gadaiyvanes.

„saoperaciaSi Seyvanisas ganSrevebis procesi dawyebuli

aRmoCnda, rac postoperaciul periods kidev ufro

sariskos xdida. vfiqrob, pacientis asakma da misi organizmis

mzadyofnam gadarCenisTvis postoperaciuli periodi

gaamartiva da Cveni kolega binaze damakmayofilebel

mdgomareobaSi gaewera“, - ixsenebs kardioqirurgi sulxan

lominaZe.

warmatebuli operaciis Semdeg qirurgi da endoskopisti

sakuTar profesias daubrunda da axalcixis referalur

hospitalSi ganagrZobs saqmianobas.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

3

mesame gverdidan

- Sesabamisad, martivad SeiZleba

daviTvaloT, Tumca amas marto

erT segmentSi vambob, es aris marto

auTsorsingSi, es aris ma-

RaroebSi mopovebuli da plus, es

aris „fero”. Sesabamisad, ra Tqma

unda, Tanxa gacilebiT metia.

_ sasamarTlo dava daiwyeT, Tu

molaparakebebi gqondaT kulu-

arebSi? tripolski ras ambobda?

_ tripolski Cems saxlTan movida,

pirvel sarTulze iyo kafe

„prego”, mxrebi aiCeCa, biZinaze gaakeTa

miTiTeba da miTxra, rom ra

vqna, gamomagdes mag sqemidano.

uTqvamT, rom saerTod aRar Caerioo.

Tumca kidev erTxel minda

xazi gavusva, rom Tavidanve maTi

midgoma makvirvebda da Tan gaocebas

iwvevda, rom eseni am sqemas

uyurebdnen, rogorc Tavisas da

TiTqos me raRac SeRavaTs mikeTebdnen,

rom melaparakebodnen. Cemi

ganzraxva ki absoluturad sxva


2002-2004 wlebSi da mqonda Zalian

axlo megobruli urTierToba mixeil

saakaSvilTan. amis Semdeg „kaxelebma”

Tavisi gundis erT-erTi

wevri gamomigzavnes da iman miTxra,

_ yvelas sjera, rom es Seni biznesi

wavidoda saakaSvilTano.

_ im periodSi gqondaT saakaS-

vilTan urTierToba?

_ Cemi bolo Sexvedra saakaSvilTan,

isic oficialuri,

rogorc sakrebulos wevris prezidentTan,

Sedga 2004 wels da mas

Semdeg, daaxloebiT, Tu ar vcdebi,

2017 Tu 2018 wlamde, saakaSvilTan

urTierToba saerTod ar

mqonia, (telefoniT vesaubre) _

arc masTan da arc politikasTan

mqonia saerTod Sexeba. politikasTan

Sexeba iqidan gamomdinare

miwevs axlac, rom TviTon Seexo

Cems bizness. 2005 wels gadavwyvite

CamovSorebodi politikas da wavsuliyavi

biznesSi.

_ vin iyo kaxelebisgan gamog-

zavnili is piri, romelmac es

Tqma unda, me detalebSi ar Sevsulvar

da biznesis ganxilva ar

damiwyia uSiSroebaSi, Tumca maT

gzavnils mivxvdi, rac iyo. Sesabamisad,

iqidan rom gamovdiodi, mivxvdi,

ra bedi eloda Cems bizness.

_ gamoZieba axseneT, ra gamo-

Zieba, rodis daiwyo es gamoZieba?

_ Cemi gancxadebis Semdeg, roca

gaxariam daadastura, rom man miiRo

es gadawyvetileba Cemi gadawevis

Sesaxeb iqidan gamomdinare,

rom me monopoliis aRebas vcdilobdi.

daiwyo prokuraturam

gamoZieba, damikavSirdnen antikorufciuli

samsaxuridanac, Tumca

mere prokuraturidanac damikav-

Sirdnen da iq aRiZra saqme ufleba-movaleobis

gadametebasTan

dakavSirebiT gaxariaze. esec 2015

wlis zafxulSi moiTxoves yvela

masala, satelefono amonawerebi,

videomasala, mtkicebulebebi, aseve

gaxarias araerTi gancxadeba,

rom imitom gadamwia, monopoliis

aReba mindoda. Tumca dRemde mx-

biznesis warTmevis skandaluri istoria!

iyo, rom Tavidan bolomde saxelmwifos

mieRo zomebi imisTvis, rom

gadaketiliyo Savi xvrelebi, Segvewyvita

aralegaluri mopoveba,

adgilze arsebuli yvela qarxana

CarTuliyo TeTr sqemaSi, Semogveyvana

Cven, gagveformebina

oficialuri xelSekrulebebi, rac

movaxerxeT kidec daaxloebiT 14

kompaniasTan, erTi kompania dagvr-

Ca da isic fizikurad ver movaswariT,

magram aucileblad gaaformebda

isic, radgan sxva gza ar

iyo, yvela iZulebuli iyo, CarTuliyo

am TeTr sqemaSi. ra Tqma

unda, maTTvis, vinc moparvasa da

Savi sqemiT muSaobas aris miCveuli,

naklebad saintereso iyo TeTr

sqemaSi monawileoba, radgan mogeba

gacilebiT naklebia, iyo oficialuri

gadasaxadebi da a. S. magram

es aris norma. civilizebuli

saxelmwifos funqcionirebisTvis

ase unda keTdebodes biznesi. amitom

viyavi swored winaaRmdegi,

rom SemoeyvanaT kidev sxva kompania.

es Tavidan bolomde ewinaaRmdegeboda

imas, razedac wlebi vimuSaveT,

rom es Savi warmoeba

amogveqola da gagveTeTrebina. Sesabamisad,

iq ukve imaze ki ar iyo

laparaki, rom marto me mesargebla

da me mimeRo Tanxebi. yvelafers

rom Tavi davaneboT, Tavidan

bolomde gavisvrebodi am sqemaSi.

CemTvis es miuRebeli iyo da aqedan

gamomdinare vTqvi uari, Torem

mflobeli da licenzianti kompania

sxva gaxldaT da maTi neba iyo,

Tu undodaT aTs Semoiyvandnen.

Tumca imis Semdeg, rac Cemi xelSekruleba

ar moewoneboda imitom,

rom me eqskluziuri SeTanxmeba

mqonda da isic ar iyo Cemi moTxovna,

es iyo urTierTSeTanxmebis

safuZvelze.

_ sasamarTlo dava rodis dai-

wyeT da raze?

_ sasamarTlo dava daviwyeT

2015 wels zaralis anazRaurebaze

da, Sesabamisad, yvela instancia -.

me ar mqonda imis iluzia, rom am

sistemaSi, sadac sasamarTlo Tavidan

bolomde jibeSi hyavT, Cven

movigebdiT. TiTqos gaaCines iluziebi,

rom SeiZleboda sasamarTloTi

raRaca, magram es iyo Tavidan

bolomde TamaSi da absoluturad

ikiTxeboda yvela sasamarTlo

procesze, rom mosamarTleebi

Tavidan bolomde iyvnen kontrolis

qveS, lamis saxeze eweraT.

sasamarTloze rac vnaxe, eg kidev

calke saubris Temaa, absoluturi

ganukiTxaobaa da absoluturi totaluri

kontrolia am instituciaze.

arakompetenciasa da gaunaTleblobas

aRar vexebi, Torem

egec saswaulia.

_ axla ras apirebT, ra formiT

fiqrobT brZolis gagrZele-

bas? sistema realurad igivea,

erTmaneTSi kargad dalagebuli

sqemebiT yvelas aqvs Tavisi wili

da realurad yvela kargad

grZnobs Tavs saxelmwifos garda,

romelic Zalian bevr fuls kar-

gavs.

_ amdeni welia, amaze Riad vsaubrob,

Cemi mTavari mizani swored

es aris, rom sazogadoebamde unda

mivitanoT erTi Zalian mkafio

gzavnili. ukve vaxsene, rom xelisuflebam

SemomTavaza garigeba,

ase vTqvaT, mxarze xeli momi-

TaTunes da miTxres, rogori ni-

Wieri kaci var, rom amdeni movaxerxe

da Cemnairi xalxi sWirdebaT

da a. S. amiT SeiZleboda, me da Cems

ojaxs migveRo milionebi magaTTan

megobrobiT. principulad wavedi

uarze, ase micxovria, maqvs Cemi

politikuri warsuli, xedvebi da,

aqedan gamomdinare, Cemi principuli

poziciaa es, rom aseTi tipis

usamarTlobebs ar unda Seveguo.

praqtikulad, Cemi ojaxi Zalian

didi gansacdelisTvis da gasaWirisTvis

gavimete wlebis ganmavlobaSi

da es sityva verc itevs im sim-

Zimes, rac me da Cemi ojaxis wevrebs

mogviwia gavla amdeni xnis ganmavlobaSi.

Tumca Segnebulad wavedi

imitom, rom pirvel xanebSi mar-

Tla sjeroda xalxs, biznesi

Tavisufali iqneboda. pirveli biznesmeni

viyavi, vinc gamovedi da

vTqvi, rom ase ar iyo da bevri axlobeli

marTla arc mijerebda,

rom es ase iyo, sanam TviTon ar

darwmunda mosaxleobis albaT 80

procenti, roca yvela did bizness

Seexnen da yvela didi biznesi

waiRes. mjera da vxedav, rom es

sistema dasasrulisken midis da es

logikuria aseTi usamarTlo

sistemisTvis. ra Tqma unda, CemsaviT

yvela adamiani unda gamovides,

vinc usamarTlobas awydeba, es Cveni

valia am qveynis winaSe, es aris

Cveni memkvidreoba, romelic Cvens

Svilebs unda davutovoT. amitom

aseT usamarTlobasTan Segueba ar

SeiZleba. ra Tqma unda, bolomde

vibrZoleb, sanam ar gavimarjveb!

ra Tqma unda, ivaniSvils vaiZuleb,

rom bolo centamde, ra zaralic

momadga me da Cems kompanias,

aanazRauros!.. ra Tqma unda, yvela

is adamiani, vinc am ukanono sqemaSi

iyo CarTuli _ ivaniSvilidan

dawyebuli, gaxariamde damTavrebuli,

RaribaSvili Tu TamazaSvili,

vinc arian, yvelam agos kanonis

winaSe pasuxi!

_ ra iyo TamazaSvilis roli am

saqmeSi? Tqven TqviT, rom Cemi

diskreditacia moxda TamazaSvi-

lis mxridano.

_ SualedSi Sematyobines, rom

am sqemidan Caxsnili var imitom,

rom warsulSi „nacmoZraobis”

erT-erTi damfuZnebeli viyavi,

aseve gaxldiT sakrebulos wevri

gagixmovanaT?

_ maTi Zalian axlo megobari da

biznespartniori, Tumca is Cemi

ojaxis wevris meSveobiT movida da

am adamianis vinaobas ver -. amaze

Riad mqonda saubari Zalian bevr

adgilas, Tumca ver gavasajaroveb...

am adamians araerTxel Sevxvdi

da aseve miTxra, rom Tamaz TamazaSvili

iyo is adamiani, vinc bi-

Zina ivaniSvilTan mivida da zustad

am sityvebiT ganmimarta: „daajera

biZina ivaniSvili, rom es

Tanxebi saakaSvilTan da opoziciis

yulabaSi moxvdebodao. albaT

imis ganmartebas ar daviwyeb, asec

rom yofiliyo, normalur saxelmwifoSi

aseTi raRacebi ar unda

xdebodes da biznesi politikuri

gemovnebiT ar unda isjebodes,

Tumca maTive sityvebs vimeoreb da

ar daviwyeb imis mtkicebas, es iyo

marTali Tu ara, mimaCnia, rom saerTod

ar maqvs amis tvirTi... mi-

Txres, rom ician, saakaSvilTan

aranairi urTierToba ar gaqvs,

magram ase awyobdaT da ase gaake-

Teso. axla biZina ivaniSvilTan

Sens reabilitacias Tveebi dasWirdeba

da amitom sxva biznessqemebis

dalageba mTxoves. 3-4 TveSi amasac

dagilagebT biZina ivaniSvilTano,

razedac Cemgan uari miiRes. vuTxari,

es brZola ukve dawyebulia

da, Sesabamisad, aranairi dalageba

ar mWirdeba, am brZolas bolomde

miviyvan-meTqi... aqedan gamomdinare,

vicodi, rom swored e. w.

kaxelebis dajgufeba iyo pirveli,

vinc Semexo. isic miTxres, _ Tamaz

TamazaSvils es xelSekruleba cxvirwin

aacaleo. gamodis, rom is

iyo dainteresebuli am biznesiT

da me wamoviRe. aseve axsenes, rom

sanam uSiSroeba da Ss saministro

erTmaneTSi arkvevdnen, visi kaci

iyavi, manamde moaxerxe Sen am biznesis

waRebao...

marTla iyo Sexvedra uSiSroebis

samsaxurSi malxaz CikvilaZesTan,

misi telefonis nomeri irakli

tripolskis meSveobiT gadmomces.

sxvaTa Soris, es masalebi

gamoZiebas gadaveci, uCa mamacaSvilTan

satelefono zarebic.

CikvilaZe Zalian dabneuli melaparakeboda

da saerTo mesiji rac

gamovitane, Cveni Sexvedris mizani

is iyo, Tu daxmareba dagWirda, aq

varTo. Sesabamisad, gaugebaria,

roca uSiSroebaSi gibareben da

biznessqemebze gelaparakebian, ra

are ar aris cnobili, radgan masalebTan

wvdoma ar iyos. me vici am

saqmis irgvliv uamravi gamokiTxuli

adamiani-, aseve Cemi partnioric,

romelic 20%-ian wilSi iyo

da dRes ma-s TanamSromelia, isic

daikiTxa, daikiTxnen „jorjian amerikan

eloizi-”, Tumca ramdenadac

vici, iq iseTi toni iyo, rom Cemze

undodaT sisxlis samarTlebrivi

devnis dawyeba, rom gaveCumebine.

Tumca sazogadoebam, albaT, kargad

dainaxa, rom es saqme Zalian gaxmaurda.

ramdenime welia, mimdinareobs

da absoluturad gayuCebulia

xelisufleba da amdeni weli

aranairi reagireba ar mouxdenia.

_ es saqmec, albaT, Taroze

devs...

_ ra Tqma unda, ase aris da ra

Tqma unda, 5 Tu 6 wlis Tavze nebismieri

qmedebebi, rac ar unda ganaxorcielon,

politikuri iqneba.

_ axla brZolas apirebT,

strasburgSi midixarT. dakavebas

elodebiT?

_ 2018 wels rom gavakeTe gancxadeba,

Tu ar vcdebi, saarCevno periodi

iyo. SemomiTvales, Tu ar

gavCumdebodi, finansurSi iyo

raRac saqme aRZruli Cemze, Tumca

ar vici, ra saqmea aRZruli.

_ dakiTxvaze ar yofilxarT?

_ ara, ubralod, isic Cemi ojaxis

wevris meSveobiT araoficialurad

SemomiTvales, rom aris ra-

Raca saqme Cemze finansurSi aRZruli,

rom gavCumebuliyavi. magram

brZola grZeldeba, amaze ori azri

ar arsebobs! absoluturad gaTvi-

Tcnobierebuli maqvs, roca usamarTlo

sistemis winaaRmdeg mivdivar,

sadac sasamarTlo magaTia,

yvela sadamsjelo instrumenti

aqvT da amas iyeneben ukanonod da

ara kanonis farglebSi, rogorc

unda muSaobdes saxelmwifo institutebi,

yvelaferi erTi kacis neba-survilzea

mowyobili, ra Tqma

unda, kargad vici, roca vupirispirdebi

am sistemas, ra Sedegebi

SeiZleba mohyves. Tumca mimaCnia

da es Cemi moqalaqeobrivi poziciaa,

swored es aris is mTavari

memkvidreoba rasac davutovebT

momaval Taobebs. yvela adamiani

unda ebrZodes usamarTlobas. es

yvela Cvenganis valia.

„qronika+“ agrZelebs am Temaze

muSaobas da momdevno nomerSi

skandalur Canawerebs SemogTavazebT!

4 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

nene injgia

591 71 39 98

or kviraSi saqarTveloSi 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebi

gaimarTeba. bunebrivia, yoveldRiurad politikuri temperatura

sul ufro maRla aiwevs da winasaarCevno viTare-

bac sxva fazaSi gadava. gasul kviras premierma gaxariam

dagvianonsa, rom win toqsikuri ori kvira gvelodeba.

„mZime ori kvira gvelis win,

Zalian toqsikuri ori kvira, rodesac

politikosebi saerTod yvelaferze

midian da SeiZleba, iseTebi

ikadron, rac normalur cxovrebaSi

warmoudgenlad gveCveneba”.

ramdenad toqsikuri iqneba

winasaarCevno ori kvira, amas momdevno

dReebSi vnaxavT.

opozicia, miT ufro „nacionaluri

moZraoba”, yvelaferze wamsvleli

rom aris, amis dasturad

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi

koronavirusis pandemiis miuxedavad

„erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba

_ gaerTianebulma opoziciis”

aWaraSi, konkretulad ki baTumSi

gamarTul xalxmraval winasaarCevno

aqcias iSveliebdnen, sadac

arc distancia iyo daculi da aqciis

monawileebis nawils pirbadeebic

ar ekeTa.

ras emsaxureboda premieris

mxridan gakeTebuli gancxadeba?

riT aixsneba „gaerTianebuli

opoziciis” mravalricxovani aqcia,

sadac moqalaqeebis usafrTxoeba

ar iyo daculi? iyenebs Tu

ara xelisufleba kovid-19-s winasaarCevnod?

aRniSnuli Temebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+~ respublikuri partiis

politikur mdivan Tamar ko-

rZaias esaubra:

_ qalbatono Tamar, xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi pirda-

pir moRalateebad moixsenieben

iliCovasa da melaSvils, ras em-

saxureba „kartografebis saqme”?

_ mgonia, rom amaze pasuxi ukve

calsaxad gacemulia. TviTon xelisuflebam

da Tavdacvis ministrma

ganmarta, ra aris es yvelaferi

da risTvis gaakeTes. Tavad

daviT xidaSelma, romelmac es

ruka gamoaCina, Tqva, rom es iyo

biZina ivaniSvilis davaleba. garda

amisa, Tavdacvis ministri yvela

eTerSi saubrobs, rom „nacionaluri

moZraoba”, rogorc partia,

gasanadgurebelia. rodesac

saxelisuflebo gunds erTaderTi

mizani aqvs, _ viRacis ganadgureba,

es aris, ubralod, tragedia,

radgan saxelisuflebo gundis mizani

unda iyos qveynis Seneba da

ara viRacis ganadgureba. „ocnebis”

yvela gancxadebaSi dasturdeba

_ am winasaarCevno periodSi

maTTvis mTavaria, „nacionalur

moZraobas”, rogorc maT oponentebs,

politikuri dartyma miayenon.

am yvelafris gvirgvini iyo

irakli kobaxiZis interviu, romelmac

Tqva, rom Turme konstituciurad

yvelanairi samarTlebrivi

safuZveli arsebobs, rom „nacionaluri

moZraoba” aikrZalos, magram

misi TqmiT, Turme, isini amas

didsulovnad ar akeTeben. aqedan

gamomdinare, am kiTxvaze, mgoni,

pasuxi Zalian naTelia.

_ Tqven axseneT RaribaSvili,

romelmac ganacxada, rom xalxs

mouwevs arCevanis gakeTeba moR-

alateebsa da patriotebs Soris.

ra Tqma unda, moRalateebSi man

„nacionaluri moZraoba”, xolo

patriotebSi „qarTuli ocneba”

igulisxma. sazogadoebis garkve-

ulma nawilma arc ki daijera

„kartografebis saqmeze” dakave-

buli adamianebis danaSauli da

ambobs kidec, rom es adamianebi

winasaarCevnod daakaves. Tqveni

SefasebiT, sazogadoebam rogor

aRiqva „kartografebis saqme”?

_ rogor SeiZleba, arCevnebis

mosagebad udanaSaulo adamianebi

cixeSi Casva?! Teoriulad rom

davuSvaT, SesaZloa, garkveuli

molaparakebebi mimdinareobda, vi-

Rac raRacas gegmavda, magram adamianebi,

romlebic saerTod ar

arian gadawyvetilebis mimRebebi

da dokuments xels ar aweren, maT

mxolod eqspertuli mosazrebis

wardgena SeuZliaT, rogor Sei-

Zleba, isini iyvnen danaSaulSi pasuxismgebeli

subieqtebi? amitom

mTeli sazogadoeba Zalian naTlad

xedavs, rom konkretulad is ori

adamiani am xelisuflebis absoluturi

msxverplia. ra Tqma unda, es

gadawyvetileba xelisuflebas sawinaaRmdegod

daubrundeba, radgan

Tu sazogadoeba wina xelisuflebis

mier adamianebis mimarT usamarTlo

mopyrobas aprotestebda

da amitom gauSva saxlSi is, dRes

ratom unda apatios „qarTul ocnebas”

igive saqcieli?

_ raze metyvelebs is faqti,

rom xelisufleba am tipis me-

Todebs iyenebs „nacionaluri

moZraobis” winaaRmdeg?

_ es faqti zustad imaze metyvelebs,

rom xelisufleba agoniaSia.

8-wliani mmarTvelobis vadis dasasrul

yvela xelisufleba agonia-

Sia da ver xvdeba, rom gadarCenis

erTaderTi gzaa: unda Seeguo, rom

cota xani iqnebi opoziciaSi da

mere SeiZleba kvlav dabrunde xelisuflebaSi.

pauzis aReba, samwuxarod,

Cvens Camouyalibebel

demokratiaSi arc erT politikur

partias ar unda da es yvelaze didi

ubedurebaa. Rirseuli saqcielia,

8 wlis mere Tqva, rom xelisuflebaSi

viyavi 8 weli, SesaZloa

axla viyo opoziciaSi, magram diax,

vibrZoleb imisTvis, rom kidev movide

xelisuflebaSi, _ am elementaruli

WeSmaritebis gaazreba ver

moxerxda Cvens qveyanaSi 30-wliani

damoukideblobis periodSi.

_ xelisufleba, romelzedac

Tqven saubrobT, sakmaod Tavda-

jerebulia gamarjvebaSi. winasaa-

rCevno periodSi xelisufleba

kovid-19-Tan warmatebul brZo-

laze xSirad saubrobda, Tumca

dResdReobiT rekordulad gaz-

rdilia statistika. gaeqca procesebi

xelisuflebas, Tu es rekorduli

zrda winasaarCevnod awy-

obs da amitom miuSva procesi?

_ mgonia, rom kovid-19-is aseTi

miSveba xelisuflebis interesebSi

Sedis, _ rac ufro meti adamiani

iqneba saxlSi da ver miva arCevnebze,

es mmarTveli politikuri

partiis interesebSia. xelisuflebas

yovelTvis amarcxebs amomrCevlis

simravle. Tu saarCevno dRes

iseTi epidemiologiuri mdgomareoba

iqneba, rom mosaxleobis garkveuli

nawili ver miva arCevnebze,

es imas niSnavs, rom xelisufleba

Zalauflebas SeinarCunebs.

amitom axla SeiZleba Seeguos imas,

rom xelisuflebas menejmenti ar

uvarga da ver gaumklavda kovid-

19-s, magram sinamdvileSi xelisufleba

amiT sargebels naxavs da

arCevnebSi Zalauflebas mesamed

moipovebs. ra Tqma unda, am SemTxvevaSi

mmarTveli gundi salanZRavia,

radgan adamianebis keTildReobiT

da janmrTelobiT borotad

sargebloba unda, imitom, rom

calsaxad Cans, procesi miSvebulia.

rogor SeiZleba, dRes, rodesac

1000-ze meti adamiania daavadebuli,

ar gamovides premier-ministri

da ar Tqvas, rom skolebi da

universitetebi u-da daixuros?!

faqtia, rom arafers ketaven da

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


Tamar korZaia:

`biZina

ivaniSvili

da `qarTuli

ocneba~ unda

wavides, maTi

dro amoiwura~

vigebT, rom inficirebuli maswavlebeli

gakveTils atarebs da

direqtors ar aqvs imis uflebamosileba,

skola daxuros. aqedan

gamomdinare, SegviZlia vTqvaT,

rom es mizanmimarTuli ambavia. xelisuflebas

ar awuxebs, gavakritikebT

Tu ara, maT undaT Sedegi.

Sedegi aris is, rom rac ufro meti

adamiani iqneba TviTizolaciaSi da

maT ver miutanen gadasatan yuTs,

miT metad isargebleben isini, radgan

naklebi amomrCeveli miva arCevnebze.

roca naklebi amomrCeveli

midis saarCevno yuTTan, maSin

xelisufleba ZalauflebaSi rCeba.

_ riT upirispirdebiT am yve-

lafers opoziciuri speqtri?

_ amis sapirwoned gvaqvs goneba,

amas samarTlebrivad da argumentebiT

vadasturebT. pirveli da

mTavari: aravin viciT zusti statistika,

SeiZleba viciT daavadebulTa

statistika, romelic aseve

zusti ar aris, magram ar viciT,

zustad ramdeni adamiania TviTizolaciaSi.

rodesac centralur

saarCevno komisias vekiTxebiT, es

xalxi, rogor miscems xmaso? _ gvpasuxoben,

rom isini gadasatani

saarCevno yuTiT SeZleben xmis

micemas. am nawils samarTlebrivad

rom SevxedoT, saarCevno kodeqsis

Tanaxmad, ubani iqmneba ara umetes

2000 amomrCevelze, gadasatani

saarCevno yuTi ki SeiZleba gavides

amomrCevlis ara umetes 3%-isa.

anu erT ubanze, sadac 2000 amomrCevelia,

gadasatani yuTi SeiZleba

miutano 60 adamians. fizikurad

meti mainc ver moeswreba. Cven

rodesac ar viciT realuri kovidstatistika

da aseve is, Tu ramdeni

adamiania TviTizolaciaSi, es

imas niSnavs, rom ar viciT, ramden

adamians dasWirdeba gadasatani

yuTi. saarCevo kodeqsis cvlilebebis

Semdeg kanonmdebelma moaxdina

centralur saarCevno komisiaze

delegireba da Tqva, rom

kovid-19"-is problemebidan gamomdinare,

cesko uflebamosilia,

TviTon daadginos axali regulaciebi,

anu SeiZleba gadavaciloT

im 3%-s da ramdenime gadasatani

yuTi iyos. ramdeni gadasatani

yuTi SeiZleba gamoviyenoT _ 2, 3,

10? _ amaze pasuxi aravis aqvs. amas

imitom ar gveubnebian da verc

gvetyvian, radgan ar ician ramdeni

adamiania TviTizolaciaSi. statistikuri

qaosi da ucodinaroba,

ra mdgomareobaSic varT, xelsayrelia

xelisuflebisTvis. amas

Tu kide rame dasabuTeba unda,

maSin movides xelisufleba da gvipasuxos.

opozicia ar aris ZalauflebaSi

da mas ar aqvs berketebi,

rom statistika moipovos zusti an

gadawyvetileba miiRos da Sesabamisad

imoqmedos. opozicia mis

xelT arsebuli meqanizmebiT yvelafers

akeTebs, xelisuflebasac

da sazogadoebasac eubneba, ra

problemebia da iqneb, moagvaron.

Cemi azriT, razedac ukve visaubre,

es adasturebs imas, rom xelisuflebas

ar surs axla am sakiTxebis

mogvareba.

_ gasul kviras gaerTianebulma

opoziciam baTumSi aqcia gama-

rTa, sadac arc distancia iyo

daculi da mxardaWerebis nawils

pirbadec ar ekeTa, razedac xe-

lisuflebis warmomadgenlebi

acxadeben, rom upasuxismgeblo

saqcieli iyo. magaliTad, irakli

kobaxiZem ganacxada, rom „nacionalurma

moZraobam” kidev erTx-

el daadastura, rom boroteba da

mavnebloba misi mTavari niSan-

Tvisebaa. riT axsniT imas, rac

baTumis aqciaze xdeboda?

_ kovid-19-is afeTqebis periodSi

amdeni adamianis Sekreba

rTuli sayurebeli iyo da es adamianurad

mesmis, es riskis matarebelic

iyo. magram, iqneb, kobaxiZe

da xelisufleba imaze dafiqrdnen,

ra aris maTi gasakeTebeli? rac me

aRvwere, es imas niSnavs, rom isini

arafers akeTeben. garda amisa,

iqneb imazedac dafiqrdnen, xalxi

ra gamwarebulia maTi moqmedebiT

da mmarTvelobiT, rom swored aman

gamoiyvana is quCaSi. amdeni adamiani,

miuxedavad mZime epidemiologiuri

situacisa, quCaSi rom gamovida,

es xelisuflebisTvis niSani

unda iyos. gaerTianebuli opozicia

aqciis monawileebs mouwodebda,

rom pirbadeebi gaekeTebinaT.

Cven yvelas gvaqvs individualuri

pasuxismgebloba. magaliTad, sa-

`Tu saarCevno dRes iseTi

epidemiologiuri mdgomareoba iqneba, rom

mosaxleobis garkveuli nawili ver miva

arCevnebze, es imas niSnavs, rom

xelisufleba Zalauflebas SeinarCunebs~

marSruto taqsiSi zogs ukeTia

wesierad pirbade, zogs _ ara. am

dros vcdilob xolme mivuTiTo,

rom sworad unda gaikeTon. am

xarisxis diskusiaSi Tu SevalT,

cota uxerxuli iqneba. Cven yvelas

movuwodebT Sexvedrebze pirbadis

gakeTebas, rom daicvan distancia.

_ premierma gaxariam ganacxada,

rom arCevnebamde toqsikuri ori

kvira iqneba, rom xelisuflebis

oponentebi yvelaferze wavlen.

ras niSnavs es gzavnili premieris

mxridan?

_ TviTon gaxaria aris toqsikuri.

mas imdenad ar SeuZlia seriozuli

politikuri saubari da

debatebi, rom maT cxovrebiseul

miznad iqca opoziciis lanZRva.

iqneb, gviTxran, rogor gamovyavarT

mZime socialur-ekonomikuri

mdgomareobidan da rogor aSeneben

ekonomikas? amaze gvesaubron,

Torem es kvirebi toqsikuri iqneba

Tu ara amas Tavad amomrCeveli

gadawyvets 31 oqtombers. darwmunebuli

var, pirvel noembers axal

qveyanaSi gaviRviZebT axali realobis

winaSe, rac iqneba koaliciuri

mTavrobis Camoyalibebis

safuZveli da biZina ivaniSvili

dakargavs dominanti personis statuss.

„qarTuli ocneba” 2020 wlis

saparlamento arCevnebs waagebs.

_ ra gaZlevT amis Tqmis safuZ-

vels?

_ winasaarCevno kampaniis dros,

mosaxleobasTan Sexvedrisas vxedavT,

rom erT rameze yvela calsaxad

aris SeTanxmebuli, _ biZina

ivaniSvili da „qarTuli ocneba”

unda wavides, maTi dro amoiwura.

_ SesaZloa, amaze yvela Tanxm-

deba, magram bundovania, vin unda

movides? winasaarCevno kvleveebic

amas aCvenebs, rom amomrCevlis

did nawils ar aqvs gadaw-

yvetili, vis dauWers mxars.

_ arCevnebis dRes gamoCndeba,

vin moswons Camouyalibebel amomrCevels,

_ moswons gaerTianebuli

opoziciis bloki Tu sxva politikuri

Zalebi? mTavari is aris,

rom ar undaT biZina ivaniSvili. es

gadauwyveteli amomrCeveli, Tu

vis gadauwyvets beds, es partiebi

imis mixedviT iZulebulebi da

valdebulebi iqnebian, molaparakebebi

awarmoon da koaliciuri mTavroba

Camoayalibon. es ar aris

rTuli. mTavari mteri am SemTxvevaSi

gaxlavT xelisufleba, romelsac

surs, rom kovidqaosiT isargeblos.

danarCeni yvelaferi mogvarebadia.

5


`qarTuli ocneba~ susis ufrosis

Svilmoklulma mamam, malxaz

Sorena marsagiSvili

maCalikaSvilma, bevri dro da

599 92 16 22

energia Sealia soso gogaSvilT-

an brZolas. es ukanaskneli jer

susis ufrosobidan gaagdes, cota xnis win ki partia „qarTu-

li ocnebidanac” miabrZanes. maCalikaSvili movlenebis aseTi

ganviTarebiT ukmayofilo araa, magram Tavs gamarjvebulad

ar miiCnevs. is ambobs, rom mxolod maSin iqneba gamarjvebuli,

roca gogaSvili da sxva damnaSaveebi gisosebs miRma aRmoCndebian.

Svilmokluli mama ar gamoricxavs, rom arCevneb-

is win susis yofili ufrosis moadgile daakavon.

ratom alaparakda soso go-

gaSvili mxilebaze? ra rCevas

aZlevs Svilmokluli mama

opozicias? ra xdeba pankisSi?

rogor iyenebs „qarTuli ocneba”

Tavisi miznebis misaRwe-

vad lafanyuris specoperaci-

is dros daRupulTa axlob-

lebs? _ amis Sesaxeb malxaz

maCalikaSvili „qronika+~-s es-

aubreba:

_ batono vaxa, susis ufro-

sis yofili moadgile, soso

gogaSvili, jer samsaxuridan

gauSves, cota xnis win ki „qar-

Tuli ocnebidanac” miabrZanes.

es adamiani acxadebs, rom iw-

yebs mxilebis kampanias. bevrma

miiCnia, rom is am gancxadebebiT

biZina ivaniSvils aSanta-

Jebs. Tqven ras ukavSirebT

gogaSvilis aseT nabijebs?

_ gogaSvili damsaxurebulad

gaagdes, rogorc susidan,

aseve _ partiidan. sircxvilia,

roca aseTi adamiani gyavs partiaSi.

rac Seexeba mis gancxadebebs,

rom mxilebas daiwyebs,

aseT miniSnebebs is karga xania,

akeTebs. partiidan gagdebis Semdeg

ki ukve Ria muqaraze gadavida.

mgoni, aravis geparebaT

eWvi, rom is informaciebi, rac

saxelmwifo usafrTxoebis samsaxurSi

iyo, dRes am adamianis

xelSia. is xelisuflebas pirvelad

ramdenime Tvis win daemuqra.

Tqva, rom yvelaferze isaubrebda.

maSin „qarTulma ocnebam”

misi daSoSmineba moaxerxa.

_ ranairad daaSoSmines go-

gaSvili?

_ partiaSi datoves, magram

es mxolod droebiTi gamodga.

cota xnis win is partiidanac

moisroles. aman muqarebi daiwyo

da ambobs, rom amxels imaT,

vinc saqarTveloSi politikur

dRis wesrigs adgens. politikuri

dRis wesrigis Sedgena

ivaniSvils SeuZlia. soso gogaSvili

mas daemuqra. mokled

rom vTqvaT, SantaJze gadavida.

masalebi blomad aqvs da yvelafers

iRonebs, rom Zvel cxovrebaSi

ar dabrundes.

_ Zvel cxovrebaSi dab-

runebaSi ras gulisxmobT?

_ 2013 wlamde es adamiani

socialurad daucveli iyo da

saxelmwifosgan daxmarebas

iRebda. dRes oficialuri milioneria.

es milionebi xelisuflebaSi

mosvlis Semdeg iSova.

axla mas Tanamdeboba aRar aqvs

da SeiZleba. qonebac dakargos.

amitom gadavida SantaJze. ar

unda, rom Zvel cxovrebaSi dabrundes.

fiqrobs, rom am kompromatebiT

SeiZleba kidev raime

samsaxuri iSovos. aris meore

faqtoric: es kaci, ase Tu ise,

azrzea, ra procesebic midis.

icis, ra reitingi aqvs sinamdvileSi

„qarTul ocnebas” da

grZnobs, Tu rogor iZireba bi-

Zina ivaniSvilis navi. aseTi adamianebisTvis

erTi navidan meoreSi

gadaxtoma problema ar

aris. ar gamovricxav, mxilebaze

imitom alaparakda, rom sxva

navSi gadasaxtomad niadagi

moamzados.

_ fiqrobT, rom mas opoziciaSi

gadaxtoma aqvs ganzrax-

uli?

_ ar gamovricxav, rom is

romelime opoziciur partiaSi

apirebdes gadaxtomas.

_ is SeiZleba, apirebs gadaxtomas,

magram opozicia mi-

iRebs mas?

_ ver getyviT. me ar gamovricxav,

rom is mxilebaze

gancxadebebs opoziciis gasagonad

akeTebs. aqedan reaqcias

elodeba da mere gadawyvets,

Tu rogor imoqmedebs.

_ Tqveni saubridan gamom-

dinare, gogaSvili opozicias

ekekluceba.

_ ki batono, iyos kekluci.

mis moqmedebebs me ufro vaWrobas

davarqmevdi. aSkaraa, rom

gogaSvili opozicias evaWreba.

wyalwaRebuli kaci xavss eWidebao,

xom gagigiaT da esec yvelafers

eWideba, ramac SeiZleba

gadaarCinos. me jer kidev

ramdenime Tvis win mqonda informacia,

rom „qarTuli ocnebidan”

mas gaagdebdnen. es dadasturda.

axla velodebi,

Tu rodis dadasturdeba meore

informacia.

_ ra informaciis dadast-

urebas elodebiT, iqneb, ufro

konkretulad gviTxraT?

_ es informaciac maSin miviRe,

roca gavige, rom gogaSvils

partiidan gaagdebdnen.

rogorc miTxres, partiidan

gagdebis Semdeg mokle xanSi

susis ufrosis yofil moadgiles

daiWeren. axla swored mis

dapatimrebas velodebi. didi

imedi maqvs, rom es moxdeba.

_ risTvis daakaveben gogaS-

vils?

_ imdeni cudi aqvs gakeTebuli,

mis dasakaveblad mizezis

moZebna rTuli ar iqneba. aucileblad

unda dadges misi pasuxismgeblobis

sakiTxi. ratomRac,

mgonia, rom mas arCevnebamde

daakaveben, Tu manamde

raRacebi ar Seicvala.

es adamiani Tavadac flobs

informacias, rom dakavebas upireben.

amitom saubrobs mxile-

malxaz maCalikaSvili:

`soso

gogaSvili

opozicias

evaWreba~

baze. hgonia, rom amiT SeZlebs

Tavis gadarCenas. is pirdapir

ambobs, Tu daWeras gamibedavT,

Tqven winaaRmdeg kompromatebs

gamovyrio. eTamaSeba „qarTul

ocnebas”. kargad icnobs am partias

da darwmunebulia, rom

iolad moagvarebs raRacebs,

magram misTvis axla ramis mogvareba

advili ar iqneba.

_ wesiT, misTvis arc ivaniS-

vilis daSantaJeba unda iyos

advili, magram, rogorc Tqven

ambobT, gogaSvili amas cdi-

lobs.

_ ivaniSvilis donis kacs gogaSvilis

donis kaci daSantaJebas

ver unda ubedavdes. araa

gamoricxuli, rom es erToblivi

speqtakli iyos. SesaZloa,

speqtakli dadges rom gogaSvili

partiidan gamoagdes da

mas raRac binZuri saqmeebisTvis

amzadeben, rac mas kargad

gamosdis. binZuri saqmeebiT

daagrova is milionebi, romelsac

ase Zalian ufrTxildeba.

adamiani, romelic socialurad

daucveli iyo, patiosani

SromiT imden fuls ver iSovida,

rom lamis naxevari kaxeTi

eyida. TbilisSic didZali qoneba

SeiZina.

_ Tqveni varaudiT gogaS-

vili opozicias evaWreba da

ekekluceba. rogor xvdeba

opozicia mis keklucs? daiW-

eren susis ufrosis yofil

moadgilesTan saqmes? iseT

xalxTan gamonaxa opoziciam

saerTo? amasac rom Caexuton,

namdvilad ar iqneba gasakviri.

_ arc politikosi var da

arc lideri, erTi Cveulerivi

adamiani var, romelic politikasTan

Svilis mkvlelobam

miiyvana. opoziciaSi bevri gamocdili

lideri da Wkviani adamiania.

albaT isini aseT sarisko

gadawyvetilebas ar miiReben.

_ Tu mainc gadawyveten mas-

Tan TanamSromlobas, aseT

SemTxvevaSi ras izamT?

_ ra unda vqna? Tu Seurigdnen

an odnav mainc Tavisken

gadawies gogaSvili, maSin mTel

opozicias oms gamovucxadeb.

_ STabeWdileba mrCeba, rom

opoziciasTan erTad aRar

xarT. iseTi aqtiuri namd-

vilad ar CanxarT, rogoric

aqamde iyaviT. rame uTanxmoe-

ba xom ar moxda Tqven Soris?

ès informaciac maSin miviRe, roca gavige,

rom gogaSvils partiidan gaagdebdnen.

rogorc miTxres, partiidan gagdebis Semdeg

mokle xanSi susis ufrosis yofil moadgiles

daiWeren. axla swored mis dapatimrebas

velodebi. didi imedi maqvs, rom es moxdeba~

_ araferi momxdara. an ratom

unda momxdariyo? me maT

gverdze var. ubralod, arCevnebis

gamo pankisis xeobaSi var

wamosuli da magitom ar vCanvar.

marTalia, ar vCanvar, magram

gacilebiT ufro aqtiurad var

am procesebSi CarTuli.

_ albaT opoziciuri gaer-

Tianeba „Zala erTobaSias” mxardamWeri

xarT. Tqven da „nacionalebi”

megobrobT, „na-

cionalebi” ki am gaerTianebis

wevrebi arian.

_ „nacionalebTanac” vmegobrob

da sxva opoziciur partiebTanac.

yvela liderTan maqvs

kavSiri da konsultaciebs

vawarmoeb. „qarTuli ocnebisa”

da „patriotTa aliansis” garda,

yvela partiasTan vTanam-

Sromlob.

_ es partiebi Tqveni aqtiuri

mxardamWerebi iyvnen. er-

Toblivi Zalis miuxedavad ma-

inc ver miaRwieT mizans da

Tqveni Svilis saqme isev gamo-

uZiebelia.

_ roca xelisuflebas ar unda,

iq saqmis gamoZieba ver moxdeba.

arc me da arc opozicias

Tavi ar dagvizogavs, magram eerafers

gavxdiT. ise, verc xelisufleba

gaxda CemTan rames.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ aTasi ubedureba damatexes

Tavs. mZinare Svili loginSi

momikles da imis uflebasac ar

maZlevdnen, rom saqmis gamoZieba

momeTxova. aTasi provokacia

momiwyves, daiWires Cemi ZmisSvili,

romelic sul gverdiT

medga. damabrales yvela sibin-

Zure, risi dabralebac SeiZleboda

an ar SeiZleboda. cdilobdnen

ise gaveSavebineT, rom

Cemi mxardaWeris survili aravis

hqonoda. gaSaveba ver Se-

Zles, magram Temirlanis saqmis

gamoZieba Sewyvites.

_ es saqme soso gogaSvilis

saqmes ukavSirdeba. is Tu mar-

Tla daaSantaJebs xelisuflebas,

rogor ggoniaT, ganaxlde-

ba Temirlan maCalikaSvilis

saqmis gamoZieba?

_ am sisxliani operaciis ukan

marto gogaSvili ar dgas.

arsad miTqvams, rom marto gogaSvili

unda daisajos. amis ga-

6 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


yofili moadgilis dakavebas gegmavs~

mo gogaSvili romc daiWiron,

me mainc gavagrZeleb brZolas.

vibrZoleb manamde, sanam yvela

damnaSave ar agebs pasuxs. pasuxisgeba

am adamianebs mainc

mouwevT. am jojoxeTs imitom

gavdivar, rom simarTle vipovo.

xelisuflebis imedi ar

maqvs, Tan amaTi saqme wasulia.

saqmes axali xelisufleba gamoiZiebs.

visTanac pretenzebi

maqvs, yvela agebs pasuxs.

_ ramdeni adamianis dasjas

iTxovT? bevrni arian?

_ bevrni ara. Tavi-bolo 5

adamianzea saubari. xuTive unda

daikiTxos da pasuxisgebaSi

mieces.

_ rodesac „ocnebas” „na-

cionalebis” gaSaveba unda, is

adamianebi gamohyavs avangard-

Si, visac wina xelisuflebam

Svilebi moukla. am xelisu-

flebamac bevrs moukla Svili,

magram isini ar aqtiuroben,

radgan eSiniaT, rom „naciona-

lebTan” kavSirSi ar dasdon

brali. am siCumiT ras unda

miaRwion?

_ Cumad yofniT verafers

miaRweven. amdeni xania vibrZvi,

amdeni adamiani medga gverdiT,

magram mainc ver mivaRwie samarTals.

Svilmokluli mSoblebis

nawili Cemma ambavmac Seaferxa.

isini xedavdnen, Tu rogor

Tavdauzogavad vibrZodi,

magram verafers mivaRwie. axla

isini fiqroben, Tu maCalikaSvils

araferi gamouvida, Cven

raRa gamogvivao? xalxma imedi

dakarga. sabednierod, arian

iseTebic, romlebic bolomde

apireben brZolas.

yvelam kargad icis, magram am

Temaze saubars eridebian. sandro

girgvlianis mkvleloba

„qarTulma ocnebam” wina xelisuflebasTan

sabrZolvelad

gamoiyena. aseve moxda robaqiZis

SemTxvevaSic. maT kargad

axsovT, rogor uqmnidnen am

mkvlelobebiT problemebs „nacionalebs”.

gamocdileba aqvT

da yvela gza mogviWres, sadac

ki SegveZlo, Cveni Svilebis mkvlelobis

gamo xmauri agvetexa.

yvelafers akeTeben, rom am

mkvlelobebma „qarTuli ocneba”

ar daazaralos, risi imedic

tyuilad aqvT, radgan „qar-

Tuli ocneba” ukve dazaralebulia

da am saqmem mouryia maT

xelisuflebas saZirkveli. saZirkvelmoryeuli

„ocneba” Zalian

male CamoiSleba da amas

yvelani vnaxavT.

_ 2012 wels kaxeTis region-

Si „ocnebis” gamarjvebaSi mniSvnelovani

roli iTamaSa lafanyuris

specoperaciam. am spe-

coperaciis dros ramdenime

pankiseli axalgazrda mokles.

xeobaSi Temirlanis mkvlelo-

bac mtkivneulad ganicades da

es 31 oqtombris arCevnebze

rame gavlenas iqoniebs?

_ Temirlani arCevnebis win

rom moeklaT, es aucileblad

iqoniebda arCevnebis Sedegebze

gavlenas. lafayuris specoperacia

2012 wlis agvistos bolos

`Riad arigeben fulebs. skolis direqtorebs, maswavleblebs Riad emuqrebian,

rom Tu òcnebas~ ar miscemen xmas, samsaxurebs dakargaven. emuqrebian

socialurad daucvelebsac. eubnebian, rom Tu xelisuflebas ar dauWeren

mxars, daxmarebas mouxsnian. mogexsenebaT, rom pankisi cota miyruebul

adgilas mdebareobs da aq xelisuflebas yvelaferi gasdis~

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

Catarda, arCevnebi ki pirvel

oqtombers iyo. cxel gulze

misca xalxma xma „qarTul ocnebas”.

pankiselebi fiqrobdnen,

rom „nacionalebma” udanaSaulo

axalgazrdebi daxoces.

pankisSi dRemde hgoniaT,

rom am specoperaciaSi mTlianad

yofili xelisuflebaa damnaSave.

raRacebi gavarkvie da

axla ukve vici, Tu ratom moxda

maSin is yvelaferi. amis

Sesaxeb bevrjer misaubria pankiselebTan.

maTac gavacani is,

rac sinamdvileSi moxda, bevrma

azri Seicvala. mokled, 2012

wels xeobis mosaxleobis 99%

fiqrobda, rom yvelaferi „nacionalebis”

brali iyo. amitomac

moigo „qarTulma ocnebam”

2012 wels pankisSi arCevnebi.

_ biZina ivaniSvili xeobis

mosaxleobas piradad dahpirda,

rom am saqmes gamoiZiebdnen,

magram arc es specopera-

cia gamouZiebiaT.

_ iyo aseTi dapireba. es piroba

ivaniSvilma TelavSi gamarTul

aqciaze gasca. ukve mecxre

welia, rac „ocneba” xelisuflebaSia,

magram lafanyuris

saqmis gamoZiebaze arc ki fiqrobs.

_ ratom ifiqrebs? am saqmis

gamoZiebas aravin iTxovs.

_ arc moiTxoven. vinc am saqmis

gamoZiebas iTxovda, „ocnebam”

isini kargad daasaqma da

Cumad arian. es Tema mxolod

imitom gaaaqtiures, rom me

dampirispirebodnen.

_ Tqven ratom dagipir-

ispirdnen?

_ imitom, rom „nacionalebTan”

vTanamSromlob.

_ amis gamo vin dagipir-

ispirdaT?

_ aris ramdenime ojaxi,

romelic pirdapir Cem winaaRmdegaa.

mesmis am adamianebis.

maTac xom Svilebi dakarges.

maTTvis mniSvneloba ar aqvs, ra

viTarebaSi daxoces isini. maT-

Tvis mTavari isaa, rom Svilebi

ìvaniSvilis donis kacs gogaSvilis donis kaci

daSantaJebas ver unda ubedavdes. araa

gamoricxuli, rom es erToblivi speqtakli

iyos. SesaZloa, speqtakli dadges rom

gogaSvili partiidan gamoagdes da mas raRac

binZuri saqmeebisTvis amzadeben, rac mas kargad

gamosdis. binZuri saqmeebiT daagrova is

milionebi, romelsac ase Zalian ufrTxildeba~

moukles. me Svilmokluli mama

var da vici, ra saSineli tkivilia

Svilis dakargva. yvelanairad

vcdilob, rom Cem mimarT

am adamianebis agresia gavamarTlo,

magram verc imas

gaveqceviT sadme, rom lafanyuri

sxva iyo da Cems saxlSi Catarebuli

specoperacia _ sxva.

lafanyuris specoperaciis

wyalobiT 2012 wels „qarulma

ocnebam” pankisSi xmebis 99%

aiRo. 2016 wels „ocnebam” „nacionalebs”

pankisi sul raRac

29 xmiT mougo. 2018 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebzec igive

moxda. pankisSi Zalian ganicdian

Temirlanis ambavs. mTelma

saqarTvelom icis, rom saxlSi

Semomivardnen da mZinare Svili

loginSi momikles. lafanyurSi

vinc daxoces, isini iaraRiT

xelSi tyeSi iyvnen. am ori specoperaciis

Sedareba erTmaneT-

Tan ar SeiZleba.

_ zemoT miTxariT, lafany-

uris Tema imitom gaaaqtiures,

rom pankiselebi dampirispire-

bodneno. isev dapirispirebulebi

xarT, Tu Seicvala ra-

me?

_ araferi Secvlila, Cven

isev dapirispirebulebi varT.

Tan iseTi xalxi mipirispirdeba,

visac saerTod ar exeba

lafanyuri.

_ aba, ratom aqtiuroben?

_ imitom, rom xelisuflebam

daavala. maT saerTod ar adardebT,

ra moxda lafanyurSi.

bodiSi momiTxovia da es ambavi

sul fexebze kidiaT. imdenad

azartSi arian Sesuli, rom „qarTuli

ocnebis” iqiT verafers

xedaven.

_ sainteresoa, wlevandel

saparlamento arCevnebze ra

moxdeba pankisis xeobaSi?

Tqven ra prognozebi gaqvT?

_ me prognozis gakeTeba mTeli

qveynis masStabiT SemiZlia.

„qarTuli ocnebis” poziciebi

mTel saqarTveloSi Sesustda.

gamonaklisi arc pankisis xeobaa.

didi imedi maqvs, rom sruliad

saqarTveloSi da xeoba-

Sic opozicia moigebs. xelisuflebas

gamarjvebis mcire Sansebi

aqvs. sxvagan ar vici, rogor

aris, magram pankisSi „ocne-

ba” Zalian did fuls xarjavs.

_ raSi xarjavs fuls?

_ amomrCevlis mosyidvaSi.

Riad arigeben fulebs. skolis

direqtorebs, maswavleblebs

Riad emuqrebian, rom Tu „ocnebas”

ar miscemen xmas, samsaxurebs

dakargaven. emuqrebian

socialurad daucvelebsac.

eubnebian, rom Tu xelisuflebas

ar dauWeren mxars, daxmarebas

mouxsnian. mogexsenebaT,

rom pankisi cota miyruebul

adgilas mdebareobs da aq xelisuflebas

yvelaferi gasdis.

_ cota Zneli dasajerebe-

lia, rom „qarTul ocnebas” ase

iolad gasdis qistebTan raRa-

cebi.

_ aq Rirsebis Selaxvaze ar

vsaubrob. im adamianebTan gasdiT,

romlebic politikasTan

Sors arian. pankisSi bevria ise-

Ti, visac saerTod ar ainteresebs

politika da, Sesabamisad,

ar icis, Tu ra xdeba sinamdvileSi.


aseTi xalxis dayoliebas

iolad axerxeben.

yvelafris miuxedavad, mainc

imedianad var ganwyobili, radgan

kargad vxedav, rom xeobaSi

„qarTul ocnebas” arCevnebis

mogebis aranairi Sansi ar aqvs.

SeuZlebelia, rom es arCevnebi

ivaniSvilma moigos.

_ roca ivaniSvilTan gvaqvs

saqme, iq winaswar ramis prog-

nozireba rTulia.

_ am adamians bevri fuli

aqvs da bevri raRacis gakeTeba

SeuZlia. amis miuxedavad, „ocneba”

uSansod aris. xalxSi ise-

Ti ganwyobaa, rom „qarTulma

ocnebam” aranairad ar unda gaimarjvos.

xval SeiZleba, situacia

Seicvalos, magram meeWveba,

ramem gaaneitralos is ukmayofileba,

rac dRes xelisuflebis

mimarT arsebobs.

marTalia, xeobaSi var da iq

vmuSaob, magram kargad vici, ra

xdeba mTel qveyanaSi. yvelgan

ukmayofiloni arian „qarTuli

ocnebis” saqmianobiT. darwmunebuli

var, am arCevnebs opozicia

moigebs. me piradad yvelafers

gavakeTeb, rom gamarjveba

opozicias darCes.

_ opozicias im SemTxvevaSic

dauWerT mxars, Tu is gogaS-

vilTan iTanamSromlebs?

_ warmodgenac ki ar minda,

rom SeiZleba opoziciam gogaSvilTan

iTanamSromlos. es Cem-

Tvis Zalian mZime iqneba. ara mgonia,

es TanamSromloba Sedges.

_ SeuZlebeli araferia. gogaSvils

imdeni kompromati eq-

neba „qocebze” wamoRebuli, am-

is xaTriT miiRebs mas opozi-

cia.

_ politikaSi rogorc amboben,

gamoricxuli araferia. Tu

mainc miiReben gogaSvils, maSin

opozicia CemTvis igive iqneba,

rac gogaSvilia. ratomRac,

mgonia, rom Zalianac rom moindomon

mxareebma, TanamSromloba

ar Sedgeba _ „qarTuli ocneba”

susis ufrosis yofili

moadgilis dakavebas gegmavs.

7


`lelos~ amocanaa arCevnebamde

2012 wlidan dRemde qarTul

nene injgia

sazogadoebas Sav-TeTris arCeva-

591 71 39 98

nis gakeTeba uwevs: biZina Tu

miSa? „qarTuli ocneba” Tu „na-

cionaluri moZraoba”? yoveli arCevnebis win am politikuri

realobis winaSe vdgavarT.

erTi mxriv, polarizeba orive mxares awyobs, rogorc

mmarTvel gunds, aseve mTavar opoziciur Zalas, magram, meore

mxriv, amomrCeveli, romlis dakveTac mesame Zalaa, arCevanis

gareSe rCeba. 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebze, mi-

uxedavad imisa, rom mravalferovani arCevanis SesaZlebloba

gvaqvs, kvlevebis Tanaxmad, amomrCevlis did nawils gadawyvetili

ar aqvs, vis misces xma. „lelo” is politikuri partiaa,

romelic dafuZnebis dRidan acxadebs, rom is aris ax-

ali Zala da imedi qarTveli amomrCevlisTvis.

moaxerxa Tu ara „lelom”

sakuTari gzavnilis amomrCev-

lamde mitana? ra upiratesoba

aqvs mamuka xazaraZes sxva par-

tiebis premier-ministrobis

kandidatebTan

SedarebiT?

rogor apirebs „lelo” arCevnebamde

darCenil droSi Cam-

oyalibdes mTavar opoziciur

Zalad?

am da sxva mniSvnelovani Te-

mebis Sesaxeb „qronika+~ „lelo

saqarTvelosTvis” erT-erT

lidersa da maJoritarobis

kandidats samgorSi, fiqria

CixraZes esaubra:

_ „kartografebis saqmeze”

dRes ufro meti detalia cno-

bilia. maT Soris movismineT

daviT xidaSelisa da Tavda-

cvis ministris gancxadebebi.

risTvis sWirdeboda xelisu-

flebas „skandalis” agoreba?

_ samwuxarod, daviTgarejas-

Tan dakavSirebiT zustad is

gamoikveTa, rasac vvaraudobdiT,

rom es Tema swored winasaarCevno

kakafoniisTvis sWirdeboda

xelisuflebas. es, praqtikulad,

pirdapir ganacxada

Tavdacvis ministrma intervius

dros: es Tema sWirdebaT isev

wina xelisuflebasTan dasapirispireblad,

isev orpolusiani

realobis gasaCenad, rom raRac

xmauriani Tema Semoitanon da

emociebze iTamaSon, amiT ki winasaarCevno

periodSi garkveuli

qulebi miiRon. samwuxarod,

mrCeba STabeWdileba, rom Tavad

garejis bedi naklebad aRelvebT

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebs

_ is forma, rac am

sakiTxma miiRo, Zalian bevr

eWvs aCens. rodesac regionSi

sxva daZabulobis kerac arsebobs,

aseTi Temis Semotana sae-

Wvoa, amitom SesaZloa, garejis

problema kidev ufro gaarTulos.

kargi iqneboda, Tu statuskvos

mainc SevinarCunebT im

droisTvis, rodesac xelisuflebaSi

ufro patriotuli,

mtkice ganzraxvebisa da prioritetebis

Zala mova, romelsac

partniorebTanac da mterTanac

mkafiod SeeZleba yvelaferze

laparaki. azerbaijani rom Cveni

erT-erTi umniSvnelovanesi

partnioria, amis Sexseneba qar-

Tul sazogadoebas ar unda

sWirdebodes.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom im

fonze, roca regionSi aseTi

daZabuli viTarebaa, daviT-

garejis Temis wamowevam kidev

ufro SeiZleba gaaRrmavos

problema. es safrTxeebi sa-

Tanadod ver gaiazra xelisu-

flebam, Tu gaiazra da mainc

gariska am Temis agoreba?

_ tragikuli swored is aris,

rom situacia mSvenivrad esmiT

da xedaven, ra safrTxeebi Sei-

Zleba arsebobdes, magram isini

am nabijs mainc dgamen, radgan

maT am SeTxvevaSi garda saarCevno

mogebisa aranairi sxva interesi

ar amoZravebT. maT Soris

garejasTan dakavSirebiT

Zalian eWvi mepareba, rom maT

rame sentimentebi hqondeT. isini,

praqtikulad, saokupacio

xazTan Casulebi ar arian da sakuTari

emocia da gulis tkivili

maTgan ar maxsovs. uceb, aenTnen

garejis TemiT, romelzedac,

jerjerobiT, gadawyvetileba

miRebuli ar aris,

komisia kidev muSaobs. jer

kidev aris droc, SesaZleblobac,

rom Tuki informacia gaCndeba,

absoluturad mSvid, megobrul,

partniorul urTier-

TobaSi gavarkvioT aseTi ambebi

da ara am formiT, ra saxec

miiRo winasaarCevno periodSi

isteriis saxiT.

_ raze miuTiTebs is faqti,

rom winasaarCevnod xelisuflebam,

safrTxeebis arsebo-

bis miuxedavad, mainc wamoiwyo

am tipis politikuri TamaSi?

_ es miuTiTebs, erTi mxriv,

xelisuflebis xelweraze, _

yvela arCevnebis win gvaxsovs

raRac amdagvari. jer kidev

dawyebuli im periodidan, roca

xelisuflebaSi movidnen: 2016

wels „kabelebis saqme” iyo da

iqac samSoblos Ralatis Tema

ismoda. arc dakavebuli adamianebis

bedi adardebdaT da ma-

Sinac mniSvnelovan Temas exeboda,

es iyo haersawinaaRmdego

Tavdacvis sistema. xelisuflebam

saerToad ar idarda imaze,

rom es Tema saqarTvelos strategiul

interess warmoadgenda

da TavianTi nabijiT sakiTxs

azaralebdnen. dResac, analogiuria,

_ saerTod ar adardebT

gareja da saqarTvelos erovnuli

interesebi. maT adardebT

mxolod arCevnebze sakuTari

xmebisa da procentebis raodenoba.

_ am Temis paralelurad,

qveyanaSi epidemiologiuri vi-

Tareba sul ufro mwvavdeba da

inficirebulTa rekorduli

maCvenebeli fiqsirdeba. bolo

periodSi opozicia sul ufro

aqtiurad saubrobs imaze, rom

xelisuflebam

Segnebulad

„miuSva” virusi, radgan arCevnebze

rac ufro naklebi amom-

rCeveli gamocxaddeba, misTvis

ufro momgebiani iqneba. Tqve-

ni SefasebiT, cdilobs Tu ara

xelisufleba kovid 19-is wina-

saarCevnod gamoyenebas?

_ minimum, xelisuflebis

qcevaSi rom logika ar aris,

yvelani vxedavT. gazafxulze,

rodesac korona virusis pirveli

talRa iyo da mxolod aTeul

inficirebuls viTvlidiT,

madloba RmerTs, gardacvalebis

ricxvi, yvela sxva qveyanas-

Tan SedarebiT, sakmaod dabali

iyo, mTeli qveyana, ekonomika

gaCerda. maSin „lelos” saxeliT

xelisuflebas antikrizisuli

gegma SevTavazeT, Tu rogor

gvemarTa ekonomikuri situacia,

ra unda gagvekeTebina,

raTa adamianebs, rogorc fizikur

ise iuridiul pirebs, ukiduresad

ar damZimebodaT cxovreba,

rom bizness garkveuli

mizanmimarTuli daxmareba mie-

Ro, rom ar gaCerebuliyo yvelaferi

da samuSao adgilebi ar

dakarguliyo, mosaxleobis

`samwuxarod, daviTgarejasTan dakavSirebiT

zustad is gamoikveTa, rasac vvaraudobdiT,

rom es Tema swored winasaarCevno

kakafoniisTvis sWirdeboda xelisuflebas. es,

praqtikulad, pirdapir ganacxada Tavdacvis

ministrma intervius dros: es Tema sWirdebaT

isev wina xelisuflebasTan dasapirispireblad,

isev orpolusiani realobis gasaCenad, rom

raRac xmauriani Tema Semoitanon da emociebze

iTamaSon, amiT ki winasaarCevno periodSi

garkveuli qulebi miiRon~

udidesi nawili ki uSemosavlod

ar darCeniliyo. maSin

aranairi msgavsi RonisZieba ar

gaatara xelisuflebam da Tavmomwone

pozaSi Cadga, eqimebis

kvalificiurobis xarjze Seecadnen

TavianTi reitingis gazrdas

da xelisuflebas rac unda

ekeTebina, saerTod ar gaakeTes

araferi. meore talRa rom

gardauvali iqneboda, es yvelam

vicodiT. amisTvis absoluturad

moumzadeblebi aRmovCndiT,

rogorc ekonomikis, ise socialuri

da jandacvis mimarTulebiT.

dRes fardobiTad Tu SevadarebT,

rac amerikis SeerTebul

Statebsa an italiaSi iyo,

daaxloebiT im mdgomareobaSi

varT. procesi geometriuli

progresiiT izrdeba. Cven aseT

viTarebaSi ver vxedavT xelisuflebis

veranair pasuxismgeblian

qmedebebs da bunebrivad

Cndeba eWvebi, rom mas surs am

situaciis Tavis sasargeblod

gamoyeneba. Zalian bevri adamiani

iZulebuli xdeba, TviTizolaciaSi

gadavides. aravin viciT,

TviTizolaciaSi myofi

adamianebi rogor ganaxorcieleben

TavianT konstituciur

uflebas. aqve Cndeba kiTxva, _

mizanmimarTulia Tu ara amdeni

adamianis TviTizolaciaSi

gadayvana? rogor unda movemzadoT

ise, rom naklebi panika da

dainficirebis naklebi SemTxveva

gvqondes? am kiTxvebze pasuxebs

aravin gvcems, isini sakoordinacio

sabWoSi daxurul

kars miRma saubroben da absoluturad

aradamajarebelia

yvelaferi is, rasac Semdeg jandacvis

ministris an xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebis piriT

vismenT. swored amitom daayena

Cveni partiis wevrma levan koberiZem

sajaro msjelobis sakiTxi,

raTa saqarTvelos yvela

moqalaqem vicodeT, rogorc

asarCevma ise amrCevma, ra mdgofiqria

CixraZe:

`marSalis

gegmis~ mokle

versia

gazeTebis

saxiT

gavrcelda da

beWdvas ver

avuvediT~

8 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


mTavar opoziciur Zalad Camoyalibeba~

mareoba gvelodeba uaxloes or

kviraSi da ramdenad varT daculebi

imisagan, rom umarTav da

qaosur procesSi ar aRmovCndeT.

xelisufleba valdebulia,

amis Taobaze isaubros. yvelas

gvaxsovs is isteria, roca eklesiaSi

wirvaze misul adamianebTan

dakavSirebiT kakafonia

Seiqmna, lamis daiqca qveyana da

dRes, roca amdeni adamiania

yoveldRiurad inficirebuli,

Tundac jandacvis sferos warmomadgenlebi

am sakiTxebis

Sesaxeb ise emociurad aRar

gvesaubrebian, rogorc _ maSin.

Tu am SemTxvevaSi isini angariSs

uweven xelisuflebis survils,

rom bolomde ar gaiSifros

maTi uunaroba es Zalian

didi upasuxismgebloba iqneboda.

Tu ar aris raime sapaniko,

maSin unda gamovidnen da amis

Taobazec gviTxran. am SemTxvevaSi

xelisufleba gaxarias an

tikaraZis gamosvlebiT ver ixelmZvanelebs,

radgan maT mimarT

sazogadoebaSi ndoba absoluturi

nulia.

_ Tqven aRniSneT levan ko-

beriZis gancxadeba, rom am

TemebTan dakavSirebiT msje-

loba saparlamento formatiT

gaimarTos. Tu momdevno dReebSi

epidemiologiuri situa-

cia kidev ufro damZimda, iz-

iarebT pozicias, rom arCevne-

bi unda gadaidos?

_ arCevnebis gadadebis sakiTxs

arc erT SemTxvevaSi ar

vemxrobiT. mgoni, arc erTi

politikuri Zala ar gamoTqvams

aseT survils. garkveulad

SeSfoTebulia arasamTavrobo

seqtori, bunebrivia, maT amis

safuZveli aqvT da kargia, rom

es Temebi wamowies, ubralod

Cven ar vemxrobiT sakoordinacio

formatiT amis ganxilvas,

radgan igi daxurulia. parlamenti

ki met-naklebad sajaro

formatia da partiebis CarTulobac

SesaZlebelia uzrunvelvyoT.

erTaderTi ram gvaSinebs,

rom amomrCeveli, romelic

dastresilia, ramdenad iqneba

mzad arCevnebis dRes arCevnebze

mosasvlelad? es Zalian

rTuli sakiTxia. xelisuflebas

berketebi aqvs, rom administraciuli

resursi yvela SemTxvevaSi

moiyvanos, magram danar-

Ceni amomrCeveli SesaZloa, garkveuli

panikis qveS moeqces

virusis swrafi gavrcelebis

gamo da yoveli SemTxvevisTvis

eWvqveS daayenos arCevnebis

dRes ubnebSi wasvlis sakiTxi.

am dros uamrav adamians vxvdebi

yoveldRiurad da kantikuntad

Tu Semxvedria iseTi, romelic

ambobs, arCevnebze ar wavalo.

xalxs unda arCevnebze wasvla

cvlileba, magram marTlac

Zalian mniSvelovania janmrTelobasa

da ojaxis wevrebze

fiqri. swored amitom aucilebelia,

xelisufleba ufro gaxsnili

iyos da zustad vicodeT

jandacvis sferos warmomadgenlebisgan,

ra viTareba gvaqvs,

ra tendenciaa da rogor umkl-

`yvelas gvaxsovs is isteria, roca eklesiaSi wirvaze misul adamianebTan

dakavSirebiT kakafonia Seiqmna, lamis daiqca qveyana da dRes, roca amdeni

adamiania yoveldRiurad inficirebuli, Tundac jandacvis sferos

warmomadgenlebi am sakiTxebis Sesaxeb ise emociurad aRar gvesaubrebian,

rogorc - maSin. Tu am SemTxvevaSi isini angariSs uweven xelisuflebis

survils, rom bolomde ar gaiSifros maTi uunaroba es Zalian didi

upasuxismgebloba iqneboda. Tu ar aris raime sapaniko, maSin unda

gamovidnen da amis Taobazec gviTxran. am SemTxvevaSi xelisufleba gaxarias

an tikaraZis gamosvlebiT ver ixelmZvanelebs, radgan maT mimarT

sazogadoebaSi ndoba absoluturi nulia~

avdeba am yvelafers Cveni sistema

da zogadad xelisufleba,

raTa faruli panika ar miviRoT.

aseve aucilebelia miTiTebebisa

da rekomendaciebis gacema,

Tu rogor unda iqceodes

adamiani. rodesac geubnebian,

rom 22:0 saaTis Semdeg kafeSi

ar unda mixvide, magram am dros

adamianebi jgleTaSi sxedan sazogadoebriv

transportSi, aseve

dadian bazrobasa da xalxmrav

adgilas, raRac logika xom

unda arsebobdes, rom es yvelaferi

erTian sistemaSi moviyvanoT?!

Tu erT adgilas ar aris

safrTxe, maSin meore adgilze

ratom ar aris? aqedan gamomdinare

bevri kiTxva Cndeba xelisuflebis

mier gacemul miTiTebebsa

da rekomendaciebze.

_ am arCevnebze mosaxleobis

dakveTa aris orpolusianobis

dasasruli da axali alterna-

tiuli Zalis gamoCena. Tqven

xarT im partiis warmomadgene-

li, romelic dafuZnebis dRi-

dan ambobs, rom axali Zala,

axali imedia. arCevnebamde ori

kviriT adre ra SegiZliaT Tq-

vaT, sazogadoebamde miitaneT

Tqveni mTavari saTqmeli?

_ samwuxarod, Cven bevri xelis

SemSleli faqtori gvqonda

da axal politikur Zalas

yvelaze metad daetyo es ambavi.

sanam kovid-19-is gamo CaviketebodiT,

„lelos” damfuZneblebis

sasamarTlo procesebi mimdinareobda

2 Tvis ganmavloba-

Si da srulfasovan kampanias

ver vawarmoebdiT, Tumca,

paralelurad, organizaciul

struqturas vaSenebdiT da

`rodesac geubnebian, rom 22:0 saaTis Semdeg

kafeSi ar unda mixvide, magram am dros

adamianebi jgleTaSi sxedan sazogadoebriv

transportSi, aseve dadian bazrobasa da

xalxmrav adgilas, raRac logika xom unda

arsebobdes, rom es yvelaferi erTian sistemaSi

moviyvanoT?! Tu erT adgilas ar aris safrTxe,

maSin meore adgilze ratom ar aris?~

rogorc ki kovid-19-is gamo

miRebuli SezRudvebi moixsna,

winasaarCevno kampaniaSi Caver-

TeT. bunebrivia, bevri davkargeT,

magram miuxedavad amisa,

seriozulad movaxerxeT is,

rom politikuri Zala SevqmeniT

mTeli sqarTvelos masStabiT

regionuli struqturebiT.

movaxerxeT da yvela raionSi

warvadgineT Cveni maJoritari

kandidatebi; aseve sia, romelic,

praqtikulad, SeiZleba iTqvas,

rom xarisxobrivad gamZlea,

radgan aq arian adamianebi, romlebic

saqmis keTebisa da politikuri

gamocdilebiT gamoir-

Cevian da rac mTavaria, daaxloebiT

70-80% sruliad axali

Taobaa, axali saxeebi, oRond

TavianT saqmeebSi seriozuli

profesionalebi. vfiqrob, swored

es sWirdeba qveyanas. rac

aseve umiSvnelovanesia, Cven

warmovadgieT xedva „marSalis

gegmis” saxelwodebiT, romelmac

qarTul sazogadoebaSi

Zalian didi interesi gamoiwvia.

amdeni xania politikaSi var da

pirelad vxedav, rom saprogramo

postulatebs ase iTxovdes

xalxi. „marSalis gegmis” mokle

versia gazeTebis saxiT gavrcelda

da beWdvas ver avuvediT

didi moTxovnis gamo.

_ gasul kviras, „lelom”

premierobis kandidatad mamu-

ka xazaraZe daasaxela, rasac

socialur qselSi sazogadoe-

bis garkveuli nawilis mxridan

aseTi Sefaseba moyva, rom

„dRes qveyanas sWirdeba poli-

tikosi da ara finansisti”. ras

upasuxebdiT sazogadoebis am

nawils da ra upiratesoba aqvs

mamuka xazaraZes sxva kandi-

datebTan SedarebiT?

_ sazogadoebaSi piriqiT,

dakveTaa, rom dRes ubralod

cvlileba ki ar sWirdeba xalxs,

aramed cvlileba unda imisTvis,

rom qveyana ekonomikuri

krizisidan, staganciidan amovides.

mamuka xazaraZe da misi

gundi swored am kuTxiT aris

Zalian saintereso, rom yvela

is dapireba, romelic „marSalis

gegmaSia” Cawerili da sazogadoebis

samsjavroze gamotanili,

ar aris ubralod survilebis

krebuli. dapirebas

realuri safuZveli da gaTvla

unda hqondes. swored, amiT

aris Zalian saintereso mamuka

xazaraZe. adamianebi politikosebad

ar ibadebian, raRac periodis

Semdeg politikosebi xdebian.

mamuka xazaraZe axali da

Zalian saintereso saxea

qarTul politikaSi.

_ rogoria Sida kvlevebiT

„lelos” reitingi da ra aris

2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebze Tqveni maqsimumi?

_ bevrnairi kvleva arsebobs

_ Sida da gare. Cveni kvlevebiT

ukve karga xania, mesame politikuri

Zala varT da Tuki rame

dramatuli ar moxda, Cveni

amocanaa, darCenil droSi gavxdeT

mTavari opoziciuri Zala,

raTa SegveZlos 2020 wlis parlamentSi

koaliciuri mTavrobis

CamoyalibebaSi gadamwyveti

sityvis Tqma. ara imitom, rom

ubralod savarZlebi gvWirdeba,

aramed imisTvis, rom is gegma,

romelic Cven SevTavazeT

sazogadoebas, unikaluria da

uswrafess ekonomikur reformebsa

da proeqtebs iTvaliswinebs.

yvela sxva sfero da mimarTuleba

ekonomikur zrdazea

mibmuli da am reformebis paralelurad

unda ganxorcieldes.

Tuki Cven ekonomikur zrdas

ver movaxerxebT, yvela sxva

dapireba, romelic uxvad ismis

teleekranebidan da klipebidan,

absoluturad haerSi

gamokidebuli iqneba, radgan

realurad ganxorcielebis

SesaZlebloba ar arsebobs.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom „le-

los” mizania darCenil droSi

mTavar opoziciur Zalad Camoyalibeba.

ukve wlebia, qarTul

politikur sivrceSi warm-

marTvel opoziciur Zalad

„nacionaluri moZraoba” miiC-

neva, ramdenad realisturi

ggoniaT „nacionalur moZr-

aobasTan” konkurenciis gaweva

da ra aris „lelos” mTavari

koziri am nawilSi?

_ Cveni mTavari koziri aris

is, rom xalxi acnobierebs: polusebSi

Caketilma dapirispirebam

kargi araferi moutana

qveyanas. xalxi imasac acnobierebs,

rom politikaSi siaxlea

saWiro da „lelo” swored am

gamowvevebs pasuxobs. Cven ar

varT siZulviliT Sepyrobili

politikuri Zala da ar gvinda

mowinaaRmdegeebis ganadgureba.

Cven varT progresze, ekonomikur

zrdaze, realuri saqmis

keTebaze orientirebuli politikuri

Zala. Zlieri gundi,

Zlieri lideri, Zlieri da gamarTuli

xedva, _ es aris „lelos”

mTavari kozirebi, romlebic

winasaarCevno periodSi

yvelasgan gamoarCevs mas.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

9


giorgi SaqaraSvilis saqme

prokuraturam, jer kidev, zaf-

giorgi abaSiZe

xulSi amcno sazogadoebas, rom 19

wlis fexburTel giorgi SaqaraSvils

xuTma pirma sastikad scema da mdinare aragvSi gadaag-

do, ris Sedegadac giorgi gardaicvala. Sesabamisad, zaf-

xulSive, damamZimebel garemoebebSi Cadenili ganzrax mkvlelobis

braldeba waredgina saqmeze dakavebul xuT pirs: ar-

Cil gagniZes, nikoloz revaziSvils, vaxtang Ciqovansa da arasrulwlovnebs:

a.q.-sa da z.x.-s, Tumca am dReebSi prokuratur-

is es versia Tavdayira dadga. kerZod, saubaria imaze, rom

eqspertizis daskvniT, amave saqmeze braldebul vasil maxaraZ-

esTan erTad, manqanaSi kidev sxva pirebi imyofebodnen.

„Tu braldebis mxare imas

adasturebs da ambobs, rom am

daskvniT araferi dgindeba da

misi pozicia myardeba, maSin

ratom ewinaaRmdegeboda amis

darTvas konkretul sisxlis

samarTlis saqmeze?

eqspertizis daskvniT erTa-

derTi ramis dadgena SeiZleba

_ mxolod vasil maxaraZe ar

jdeba manqanaSi, maxaraZesTan

erTad sxdebian kidev sxva pir-

ebic, iReba ori kari. amasTan,

eqspertizis daskvna saubrobs

siluetebzec. braldebis mx-

aris versias, rom TiTqos 5

adamiani iyo Casuli mdinaris

piras da TiTqos am 5-ma adamianma

Caagdo gardacvlili giorgi

SaqaraSvili wyalSi, eqspertizis

daskvna Tavdayira ay-

enebs da imaze miTiTebaa, rom

vasil maxaraZesTan erTad manqanaSi

kidev sxva pirebic imy-

ofebodnen”, _ acxadebs giorgi

SaqaraSvilis saqmeze bralde-

buli arasruwlovnis, z.x.-s

advokati giorgi gelxauri.

ra gavlenas moaxdens eqspe-

rtizis daskvna sasamarTlos

gadawyvetilebaze? _ amas mas

Semdeg gavigebT, rac saqmis

sasamarTloSi ganxilva das-

ruldeba. manamde ki „qronika+~

advokat giorgi gelxaurs esaubra,

romelic imis albaTo-

bas uSvebs, rom SaqaraSvilis

saqme strasburgSi wavides:

_ giorgi, 19 wlis fexburTelis

saqmeSi axali garemoebebi

ikveTeba, anu prokuraturis

cnobiT, giorgi SaqaraSvili

mdinareSi xuTma adamian-

ma Caagdo...

_ diax, prokuratura ambobs,

rom SaqaraSvils, romelic garboda,

mdinaremde xuTi adamiani

Cahyva. fizikuri dazianebebic

mdinaris piras miayenes da Sesa-

Zloa, wyalSic xuTivem erTad

gadaagdoo.

_ Tu marTla ase iyo,

prokuratura aqamde ratom

arafers ambobda da es axali

detali braldebulTa dacvis

strategiaSi ras cvlis?

_ amaze saubari prokuraturas

axla ar dauwyia.

_ aba, rodis daiwyo?

_ roca arasruwlovansa da

kidev sxva braldebulebs 109-e

muxliT brali daumZima, prokuraturam

swored maSin Tqva, xu-

Tivem wyalSi erTad gadaagdoo,

anu es versia aqamdec arsebobda.

sxvaTa Soris, „qebab hausTan”

samrecxao romaa, iqidan

prokuraturas videoCanaweri

hqonda amoRebuli, sadac Cans,

„toiota qamridan” es pirebi

rogor gadmodian da SaqaraSvils

misdeven. es videoCanaweri

eqspertizaze waviReT. rogorc

cnobilia, „toiota qamriSi” eqvsi

adamiani isxda, Tumca

mZRols, vasil maxaraZes, brali

damZimebuli ar aqvs, anu brali

109-e muxliT ar wauyenes.

_ ratom?

_ manqanaSi ijda, e. w. ferad

SenobasTanac manqana man miiyvana

da sanam manqanas miiyvanda, is

xuTi piri mdinaris piras manamde

Cavida da SaqaraSvili moklao.

_ anu es prokuraturis ver-

siaa, ara?

_ diax... mokled, am video-

Canaweris eqspertizaze gagzavnis

Semdeg eqspertizam gviTxra:

im dros, roca maxaraZe manqana-

Si jdeba, ori kari iRebao. es

ki imas niSnavs, rom vasil maxaraZesTan

Ciqovani da z.x. iyvnen.

aqedan gamomdinare, prokuraturis

versia, rom SaqaraSvilis

mkvlelobaSi xuTma pirma

miiRo monawileoba, absurdia.

mokled, eqspertizis Tanaxmad,

manqanaSi mxolod vasil maxaraZe

ar jdeba, e. i., Tu ori

kari iReba, maSin manqanaSi sxvebic

sxdebian. Tu maxaraZes ganzrax

mkvlelobis brali ar aqvs

wayenebuli, sxvebs ratom aqvT?

ise, Tavad braldebulebic, maT

Soris, maxaraZec am Cvenebas

aZlevs, rom manqanaSi marto ar

yofila da masTan erTad z.x.-c

iyo da Ciqovanic. esec prokuraturis

versias Tavdayira ayenebs.

_ Tu braldebulebis Cve-

nebebi da eqspertizis daskvna,

parqtikulad, erTmaneTs emTx-

veva, maSin prokuratura brals

mxolod xuT pirs ratom umZ-

imebs, maxaraZes ki _ ara? anu

sagamoZiebo uwyeba ra TamaSs

TamaSobs?

_ es ar vici, magram Tavis

droze gardacvlilis warmomadgenlis

gancxadeba movismineT,

_ yvela pirs ganzrax mkvlelobis

muxli unda waeyenos

da mere TviTon Tqvan, mkvlelobaSi

vin monawileobda da vin

_ arao. erTi sityviT, is, rom

xuTive piri mdinaris piras iyo

Casuli, arc eqspertiziT dasturdeba

da arc _ mowmeebis

CvenebiT. erTaderTi, amaze saubari

amirxanaSvilisa da axvledianis

xuTjer Secvlil CvenebaSia.

rogorc giTxariT, dazaralebulis

mxridan aseTi dakve-

Ta iyo, rom yvelasTvis ganzrax

mkvlelobis muxli waeyenebinaT,

magram es absurdia _ Tu

prokuraturis versia marTalia

da yvela qvemoT iyo, anu mkvlelobaSi

yvela monawileobda,

maSin manqanaSi samni rogorRa

sxdebian?

_ giorgi, eqspertiza pirda-

pir ambobs, maxaraZis garda

manqanaSi kidev ramdeni adami-

ani jdeba?

_ eqspertiza ambobs, rom

Crdilebi da landebi ikveTebao,

anu manqanasTan marto maxaraZe

ki ara, sxvebic iyvnen.

_ es gavige, magram daz-

aralebulis mxares ratom

unda, rom xuTive ganzrax mkvlelobis

braldebiT gasa-

marTldes?

_ es ar vici da amis Sesaxeb

dazaralebulis mxares unda

hkiTxoT.

giorgi gelxauri:

àr gvaqvs

molodini, rom

sasamarTlo

eqspertizis daskvnas

ar gaiTvaliswinebs,

anu am pirebs

gaamarTlebs~

_ amaze arc versia gaqvT?

_ ara, Cven versia ki ara, simarTle

gvaqvs, romelic erTia.

_ da es simarTle rogoria?

_ am pirebs giorgi SaqaraSvilis

mkvlelobaSi monawileoba

ar miuRiaT, rac faqtia da

rac eqspertizis daskvniTac

dadasturda! mokled, ar vici

da Sesabamisad, ver getyviT, es

versia prokuraturas risTvis

sWirdeba.

_ asea Tu ise, rogorc Tqveni

saubriT vigeb, prokuratura

mxolod ori mowmis ramdenjerme

Secvlili Cvenebis safuZvelze

ambobs, rom SaqaraS-

vili mdinareSi xuTma pirma

gadaagdo.

_ diax.

_ roca braldeba mxolod

ori mowmis Cvenebas efuZneba,

es samarTliania?

_ ara, es samarTliani araa,

Tanac ganzraxulobisTvis, rom

adamiani bralad Seracxo, konkretuli

mtkicebulebebia saWiro.

am SemTxvevaSi es mtkicebulebebi

araa da ver getyviT,

prokuratura ase ratom iqceva!

_ maSasadame, prorkuratura

Tqven mier zemoxsenebul

eqspertizis daskvnasac ug-

ulebelyofs?

_ es daskvna sasamarTloSi,

mosamarTlis winaSe warvadgineT

da axla gadawyvetileba

sasamarTlom unda miiRos, es

pirebi ganzraxulobaSi monawileobdnen

Tu ara.

_ ise, romeli ufro mniS-

vnelovania _ mowmeebis Cveneba

Tu eqspertizis dakvna? anu

sasamarTlom angariSi romels

unda gauwios?

_ garda imisa, rom am orma

mowmem Cveneba araerTxel Secvala,

isini uSualod mkvlelobasac

ar adastureben.

_ es rogor?

_ es ori mowme, ubralod,

eqspertizis skandaluri

daskvna, romelic prokuraturis

versias Tavdayira ayenebs

10

10 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


SesaZloa, strasburgSi wavides

ambobs, Cairbineso, magram ar

daunaxavT, rom SaqaraSvili am

xuTma adamianma mokla.

ise, im msubuqi xasiaTis dazianebebiT,

romlebic samxaraulis

eqspertizam gamoavlina,

gardacvaleba ar dgindeba, Tanac

eqspertiziT gardacvaleba

asfiqsiam, e. i., wyalSi daxrCobam

gamoiwvia.

kidev erTxel vambob: is ori

mowme xuTjer Secvlil Cveneba-

Sic ar ambobs, Tu rogor moxvda

SaqaraSvili wyalSi da amis

sxva damnaxavic aravinaa.

_ Tu sasamarTlo eqspertizis

daskvnas ar gaiTvaliswinebs,

maSin samxaraulis saeqsperto

biuro risTvisRa gvin-

da, xom ar unda gavauqmoT?

_ ar gvaqvs molodini, rom

sasamarTlo eqspertizis daskvnas

ar gaiTvaliswinebs, anu am

pirebs gaamarTlebs.

_ ise, ramdenime dRis win

iTqva, rom SaqaraSvilis saqm-

eze braldebulebi SesaZloa,

giraoTi gaaTavisuflon.

_ ara.

_ anu?

_ patimroba ganzrax mkvlelobis

saqmeze ki ara, jgufur Zaladobasa

da Tavisuflebis ukanono

aRkveTaze aqvT Sefardebuli.

_ ratom?

_ ar vici, amaze prokuraturas

patimroba ar mouTxovia.

_ e. i., prokuratura ambobs,

SaqaraSvili wyalSi am xuTma

adamianma gadaagdo, magram amis

gamo maTTvis patimrobis Se-

fardebas ar iTxovs. sworad

gavige, ara?

_ patimroba sxva saqmeze

hqondaT Sefardebuli da amaze

prokuraturam patimrobis Sefardeba,

albaT, amitom ar moi-

Txova.

_ ise, giorgi, am saqmeze,

rogor fiqrobT, simarTle

odesme dadgindeba?

_ amas sasamarTlo daadgens.

_ im SemTxvevaSi, Tu sasamar-

Tlo dacvis mxarisTvis arasasurvel

ganaCens gamoitans,

saqme strasburgSi xom ar wava?

_ ra Tqma unda!

_ ise, giorgi, xom ar

geCvenebaT, rom prokuratura

dazaralebulis mxaris direqtivebiT

moqmedebs?

_ is videoCanawerebi xom

naxeT, romlebic saknebSia ga-

daRebuli?

_ diax, vnaxe...

_ es pirebi, realurad, imi-

sTvis daiWires da kamerebic

imitom daumontaJes, rom iqn-

eb, erTmaneTSi esaubraT da

eTqvaT, rom SaqaraSvili maT

mokles, magram es ar gamovida,

anu prokuraturas mtkice-

buleba ar hqonda da brali ise

wauyena.

_ giorgi, prokuratura aqcents

am xuT adamianze imitom

xom ar akeTebs, rom realuri

damnaSavisTvis xelis dafarebas

cdilobs? iciT, rogor aris?

_ rogor?

_ am etapze xels veravis davadeb,

Tumca is versia, romelsac

prokuratura gvTavazobs,

imisTvis sakmarisi araa, rom

sasamarTlom gamamtyunebeli

ganaCeni gamoitanos.

_ CagekiTxebiT: aris Tu ara

iseTi vinme, romelic am ambav-

Si realurad monawileobda,

magram prokuraturas misTvis

arc brali wauyenebia da mas

arc axsenebs?

_ amasTan dakavSirebiT Cven

versiebi ar gagvaCnia...

_ gamoZiebam giorgi SaqaraS-

vilis mkvlelobis motivi

gamokveTa Tu ara?

_ ara. mkvlelobac ar dasturdeba

da, Sesabamisad, motivaciaze

saubaric xom zedmetia.

_ da roca danaSaulis motivi

ar arsebobs, es xom gamo-

Ziebis, minimum, xarvezia?

_ ra Tqma unda.

_ gamomZieblebs ar ekiTxe-

biT, saqmeSi danaSaulis motivi

ratom ar arsebobs?

_ isini amboben, Cven ase gvgoniao,

magram ganzraxulobis

brali varaudebze ar unda iyos

dafuZnebuli.

_ e. i., strasburgSi es saqme

mTlianad CamoiSleba?

_ diax, Cveni molodini ase-

Tia.

aWaraSi èrTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~

Sexvedraze ramdenime aTasi moqalaqe mivida

16 oqtombers baTumSi gaerTianebuli opozici-

xviCa mamulaZe

is aqcia gaimarTa. xalxmraval Sekrebas baTumis

bulvarSi ramdenime aTasi moqalaqe eswreboda.

isini, ZiriTadad, pirbadeebis gareSe iyvnen da distanciasac ar icavdnen.

„qronika+~ am Temaze gTavazobT

vrcel da saintereso komenatrebs:

mTavari kiTxva iyo, Tu ratom ar daicves

Sekrebaze distancia da ar gamoiyenes

pirbade, maSin rodesac saqarTveloSi

pandemia rekordul maCvenebelzea,

seqtembridan dRemde ki baTumi

yvelaze cxeli wertilia?! qalaqSi yoveldRe

kovidis asobiT axali SemTxveva

fiqsirdeba.

„pasuxismgebloba ekisreba absoluturad

koronaviruss da SemiZlia migagzavnoT

koronavirusTan, rom mas daelaparakoT”,

_ ase upasuxa „naciona-

luri moZraobis” erT-erTma liderma

grigol vaSaZem Jurnalistebis SekiTxvas,

Tu vin iqneba pasuxismgebeli, Tuki

baTumSi gamarTuli Sexvedra axali epidafeTqebis

safuZveli gaxdeba.

„samwuxarod, Cven varT koronavirus-

Si da winasaarCevno kampaniaSi. winasaar-

Cevno kampania rom SevwyvitoT, oTxi weli

kidev unda vuyuroT im xalxs, vinc

saqarTvelos milion orasiaTasamde

moqalaqe gayara emigraciaSi, vuyuroT

adamianebs, romlebmac baTumic da mTeli

saqarTveloc daaqcies. aqciaze namdvilad

ar velodebodiT amden xalxs,

nu ras izam”, ganacxada grigol vaSaZem.

Sekrebaze sityviT gamovida „nacionaluri

moZraoba `Zala erTobaSias”

warmomadgeneli murman dumbaZe:

„2020 wlis 31 oqtombers saRamos,

20:01 saaTze, Tqveni marjveniT, Tqveni

marcxeniT saqarTvelos mesame prezidents,

mixeil saakaSvils, aRudgeba saqarTvelos

moqalaqeoba. 31 oqtombers

saRamos, 20:01 saaTze, saqarTvelos mesame

prezidents miecema saqarTveloSi

politikuri saqmianobis sruli Tavisufleba.

is dabrundeba saqarTveloSi.

araferi SegeSaloT, amis naxevarma xalxma

gaagdo aslan abaSiZe. qarTvelos

moqalaqe iTxovs cvlilebas da es cvlileba

aris gardauvali. umorCilesi

Txovnaa, ar gavaCeroT xelisuflebaSi

8 welze metad arc erTi xelisufleba”.

aqciaze Sekrebil moqalaqeebs mimarTa

respublikuri partiis xelmZRvanelma

xaTuna samniZem, romelic gaer-

Tianebuli opoziciis siis meaTe nome-

ria:

„mixaria da vamayob, rom Cven varT

levan varSalomiZesTan, „erTian nacionalur

moZraobasTan” da im adamianebTan

erTad, vinc amdeni wlis ganmavloba-

Si erTi misxalic ar daTmo am brZola-

Si _ ioma dauRalavad, principulad da

dRes aq dgas gaerTianebuli opoziciis

saxiT, 31 oqtombers gamarjvebisTvis”.

ekranidan aqciis monawileebs saakaSvilma

mimarTa. am dros baTumis bulvarSi

periodulad ismoda moqalaqeebis

xma: „miSa! miSa!” „dabrundi”, „gvenatrebi”,

„gvWirdebi”.

„ver warmoidgenT, rogor madgeba

cremlebi, rodesac giyurebT. me Semovlili

maqvs mTeli Savi zRvispireTi, me

vmarTavdi SavizRvispireTis meore mxares,

odesis olqs da zustad vici, araferia

baTumis toli, aravis gaukeTebia

aseTi didi aRmSenebloba, aseTi warmatebisTvis

aravis miuRwevia, rogorsac

Cven mivaRwieT im ramdenime istoriul

weliwadSi. brZolis damTavreba

aris Zalian axlos, gamarjveba aris sul

axlos, erTi xelis gawvdenaze. cota

kidev moTmineba, cota kide gaZleba,

cota kide meti erTianoba da sul ramdenime

dReSi, 31 oqtombers, saqarTvelo

ganTavisufldeba am koSmarisgan”,

ganacxada mixeil saakaSvilma.

„qronika+~-ma ramdenime moqalaqe

Cawera.

giorgi futkaraZe:

„me miyvars Cemi samSoblo, miyvars

mixeil saakaSvili da Cven is gvWirdeba.

sxva veravin SeZlebs qveynis aSenebas.

dRes Cven vcxovrobT sruliad gaWirvebaSi,

aravin gvaqcevs yuradRebas. Cven

gvWirdeba es Zlieri partia, romelic

SeZlebs qveynis win wayvanas”.

naTela beriZe:

„ras hqvia, Svilo, ratom movedi?

movedi SenTvis, Cveni qveynisTvis, rom

vicxovroT, karg qveyanaSi, sadac kriminali

ar iqneba da Tavisuflad SeZleb

gadaadgilebas, ar dagemuqreba safrTxe

arc Sen da arc Cven. me maxsovs, rogori

iyo aWara Cabnelebuli; ugazoba, kriminali...

mixeil saakaSvilma ki iseTi

reformebi gaatara, qveyana msoflios

gaacno, Waobidan amogviyvana da namdvili

cxovreba gvaCvena. rogor SeiZleba

amis daviwyeba? gaixede gverdiT, ra

lamazia Cveni qalaqi! es yvelaferi mi-

Sas gakeTebulia! Cven igi Zalian gviyvars

da misma siyvarulma momiyvana

dRes aq”.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

11


ratom debs oTxi saerTaSoriso

arCevnebis mijnaze „qronika+~

Tamar rostiaSvili

warmogidgenT oTxi saerTaSoriso

577 10 07 06

da erTi qarTuli organizaciis

mier Catarebuli politikuri partiebisa

da politikosebis reitingebs, maTi meTodologiis aRw-

eriT. ra aris aq yvelaze saintereso? „ocnebas” da „nacionalur

moZraobas” Tu ar CavTvliT, warmodgenil kvlevebSi partiebs

Soris mniSvnelovani gansxvavebaa. arada, dedaqalaqis mosaxleoba

gamoikiTxa da wesiT da rigiT aseTi acdenebi ar unda yofil-

iyo. „qronika+~ arCevnebis Semdeg aucileblad daubruneba am

reitingebs da Seadarebs, romelma moxsna „jekpoti”.

NDI-s kvleviT, 42% arCevneb-

Si monawileobas ar miiRebs!

„erovnul-demokratiulma

institutma” (NDI) sazogadoebrivi

azris kvlevis mixedviT,

kiTxvaze: „romeli partia dgas

Tqvens SexedulebebTan yvelaze

axlos?” _ gamokiTxulTa 36%

ambobs, rom „arc erTi partia”;

pirvel arCevnad „qarTul ocnebas”

27% asaxelebs, xolo „nacionalur

moZraobas” _ 12%.

pasuxze uari Tqva 9%-ma.

kiTxvaze: „saparlamento arCevnebis

SemTxvevaSi romel partias

an gaerTianebas miscemdiT

xmas?” gamokiTxulTa 27%-ma

„ar icis”, 24% „qarTul ocnebas”

miscemda xmas, „nacionalur

moZraobas” _ 11%, „patriotTa

alianss” _ 3%, sxvas _ 8%, xolo

pasuxze uari ganacxada 14%-ma.

kiTxvaze: „romel partias

arasodes ar miscemdiT xmas?”

pasuxebi ase gadanawilda: „ar

vici” 24%, „erTiani nacionaluri

moZraoba” 23%, „ar arsebobs

aseT partia” 16%, „uari

pasuxze” 11%, „qarTuli ocneba”

11%, „patriotTa aliansi”

7%, „girCi” 3%, „sxva” 6%.

amasTan, saparlamento arCevnebis

SemTxvevaSi, masSi monawileobas

miiRebda 58%, 42% ki

ar miiRebda monawileobas.

NDI-s saqarTvelos ofisi

2010 wlidan axorcielebs sazogadoebrivi

azris kvlevis

programas. am komponentis mTavari

mizania sazogadoebrivi

azris kvlevebis Catarebisa da

gaziarebis gziT moqalaqeebis

prioritetebis Sesaxeb informaciis

xelmisawvdomobisa da

xarisxis gazrda.

„axalgazrda advokatebi” _

xazaraZe-naTelaSvilis 1%-

iani barieri

organizacia „axalgazrda

advokatebi” „politikosebisa

da politikuri partiebis ndobis

reitingi 2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebis win”, TbilisSi

Catarebuli socilogiuri

gamokiTxvis Sedegebs aqveynebs.

respondentebma pasuxi gasces

Semdeg SekiTxvebs: „saparlamento

arCevnebSi miiRebdiT Tu

ara monawileobas?” „romeli

politikuri partia imsaxurebs

Tqvens mxardaWeras?” „daasaxeleT

politikosi, romlis saqmianobac

mogwonT”, „rogor SeafasebdiT

xelisuflebis bolo

4 wlis saqmianobas?” da „rogor

SeafasebdiT opoziciuri partiebis

saqmianobas?” SemTxvevi-

Ti SerCevis principiT, sul 478

moqalaqe gamoikiTxa, Sedegebi

ki ase gadanawilda:

1. miiRebT Tu ara saparlamento

arCevnebSi monawileobas?

a) diax _ 80.96%;

b) jer ar gadamiwyvetia _

12.97%;

g) ara _ 6.06%.

2. romeli politikuri partia

imsaxurebs Tqvens mxardaWeras?

„qarTuli ocneba demokratiuli

saqarTvelo” _ 25.94%;

„baqraZe, ugulava, bokeria _

evropuli saqarTvelo” _

11.92%;

„giorgi vaSaZe _ strategia

aRmaSenebeli” _ 10.87%;

„erTiani nacionaluri

moZraoba _ gaerTianebuli

opozicia” _ 9.83%;

„girCi” _ 8.78%;

„saqarTvelos patriotTa

aliansi” _ 6.06%;

„lelo _ mamuka xazaraZe” _

3.97%;

„daviT WiWinaZe tribuna _

qdm” _ 3.13%;

„Salva naTelaSvili _ saqar-

Tvelos leiboristuli partia”

_ 2.92%;

„aleko elisaSvili _ moqalaqeebi”

_ 2.09%;

„nino burjanaZe _ erTiani

saqarTvelo _ demokratiuli

moZraoba” _ 0.83%;

arc erTi _ 10.87%;

sxva _ 2.71%.

3. daasaxeleT politikosi,

romlis saqmianobac mogwonT?

1. giorgi gaxaria _ 20.92%;

2. kaxa kalaZe _ 11.5%;

3. Tea wulukiani _ 8.78%;

4. giorgi vaSaZe _ 8.36%;

5. irakli RaribaSvili _

reitingebis omi

7.74%;

6. zurab girCi jafariZe _

7.32%;

7. nika melia _ 4.18%;

8. grigol vaSaZe _ 3.55%;

9. irma inaSvili _ 3.13%;

10. salome zurabiSvili _

2.09%;

11. aleko elisaSvili _

2.09%;

12. mamuka xazaraZe _ 1.88%;

13. ana doliZe _ 1.25%;

14. daviT baqraZe _ 1.25%;

15. Salva naTelaSvili -

1.04%;

16. nino burjanaZe _ 0.83%;

* arc erTi _ 10.87%;

* sxva _ 3.13% (dasaxeldnen:

giorgi volski, kaxi kaxiSvili,

elene xoStaria, giga bokeria,

levan samuSia, levan xabeiSvili,

zurab WiaberaSvili, daviT

Tarxan-mouravi, badri jafariZe,

daviT WiWinaZe, eka beselia,

levan vasaZe, kaxa oqriaSvili);

4. rogor SeafasebdiT xelisuflebis

bolo 4 wlis saqmianobas?

* ufro dadebiTad, vidre

uaryofiTad _ 38.2%;

* uaryofiTad _ 24.4%;

* ufro uaryofiTad, vidre

dadebiTad _ 19.45%;

* dadebiTad _ 10.04%;

* Tavi Seikava _ 7.74%;

5. rogor SeafasebdiT opoziciuri

partiebis saqmianobas?

* ufro uaryofiTad, vidre

dadebiTad _ 44.9%;

* uaryofiTad _ 20.5%;

* ufro dadebiTad, vidre

uaryofiTad _ 18.82%;

* dadebiTad _ 11.92%;

* Tavi Seikava _ 3.76%.

gamokiTxvis mizans warmoadgenda

dedaqalaqis mosaxleobis

realuri ganwyobebisa da saparlamento

arCevnebis procesSi

maTi molodinebis dadgena. gamokiTxva

marjaniSvilis moedanze,

rusTavelis gamzirze, Tavisuflebis

da sadguris moednmimdebare

teritoriaze Catardeba.

sociologiuri kvleva organizaciis

damoukidebeli iniciativis

farglebSi momzadda.

aRniSnuli organizacia winasaarCevnod

mosaxleobis ganwyobebis

dadgenas 2013 wlidan

axorcielebs. 2013 wlis oqtomberSi

gamoqveynda gamokiTxvis

Sedegebi: „saprezidento kandidatebisa

da saprezidento arCevnebis

ndobis reitingi”, 2014

wlis ivnisSi gamoqveynda gamokiTxvis

Sedegebi: „adgilobrivi

TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebis

ndobis reitingi”, 2016 wlis

aprilSi gamoqveynda gamokiTxvis

Sedegebi: „politikosebisa

da politikuri partiebis ndobis

reitingi 2016 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebis win”, 2018

wels gamoqveynda „ndobis reitingi

2018 wlis saprezidento

arCevnebis win”.

IRI-s s kvleva

da „evropuli saqarTvelos”

dabali reitingi

aSS-is saerTaSoriso respublikuri

institutis (IRI) sazogadoebrivi

azris gamokvlevis

Tanaxmad, arCevnebis SemTxvevaSi

mosaxleobis 33% mmarTvel

partia „qarTul ocnebas”

aZlevs upiratesobas.

opoziciuri partiebidan

yvelaze maRali reitingi „erTian

nacionalur moZraobas”

aqvs. mosaxleobis 5%-iani mxardaWeriT

sargebloben „evropuli

saqarTvelo” da giorgi

vaSaZis partia „axali saqarTvelo”.

sazogadoebis prioritetebi

Semdegnairad gadanawilda:

„qarTuli ocneba” 33%, „er-

Tiani nacionaluri moZraoba”

16%, „evropuli saqarTvelo”

5%, „axali saqarTvelo” 5%,

„patriotTa aliansi” 3%, „leiboristuli

partia” 3%; „samoqalaqo

moZraoba” 2%, „lelo

saqarTvelosTvis” 2%, „girCi”

2%, nino burjanaZis „erTiani

saqarTvelo _ demokratiuli

moZraobaa” 1%, „gamarjvebuli

saqarTvelosTvis” 1%, sxva _

1%, arc erTi _ 1%, ar vici _

17%, uari pasuxze _ 11%.

IRI-is kvleviTve, gamokiTxulTa

29% arc erT SemTxvevaSi

ar miscemda xmas „erTian nacionalur

moZraobas”, „qarTul

12

12 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


organizacia gansxvavebul cifrebs?

ocnebas” ki _ 25%.

gamokiTxva koordinebuli

iyo doqtor rasa alisauskienes

mier, sajaro da marketinguli

(sabazro) kvlevebis kompania

„Baltic Surveys/The Gallup Organization”-is

mier IRI-is centris „Center

for Insights in Survey Research”

pirispir interviuebis gziT,

respondentebis saxlebSi. gamokvleva

daafinansa USAID-ma.

gamokiTxvaSi monawileobda

saarCevno xmis uflebis mqone

18 da ufrosi asakis saqarTvelos

1500 mudmivi mcxovrebi.

pasuxis koeficienti iyo 66

procenti.

Edison Research-ma

yvelaferi amoayirava

Edison Research-is gamokiTxvis

mixedviT, kiTxvaze „saparlamento

arCevnebi dRes rom tardebodes,

vis miscemdiT xmas?”

Sedegebi ase nawildeba:

„qarTuli ocneba” _ 39%,

„erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba”

_ 16%, „evropuli saqarTvelo”

_ 5%, leiboristuli partia

_ 3%, „lelo” _ 3%, „axali

saqarTvelosTvis” _ 3%, „patriotTa

aliansi” _ 3%, „gir-

Ci” _ 2%, „moqalaqeebi (aleko

elisaSvili)” _ 2%, „demokratiuli

moZraoba erTiani saqarTvelosTvis

(nino burjanaZe)” _

1%, „gamarjvebuli saqarTvelo

(irakli oqruaSvili)” _ 1%, „samarTlianobisTvis

(eka beselia)”

_ 1%, „Tavisufali saqar-

Tvelo (kaxa kukava)” _ 1%. gamokiTxulTa

20%-s gadawyvetili

ar aqvs, vis miscems xmas.

gamoikiTxa 18 welze ufrosi

asakis saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi

piradi interviuirebis me-

TodiT. SemTxveviTi SerCevis

wesiT gamoikiTxa 2 aTasi adamiani

mTeli qveynis masStabiT

(afxazeTisa da cxinvalis regionis

garda). cdomileba Seadgens

+ 2.1%-s. gamokiTxvis damkveTia

telekompania „formula”.

saqarTveloSi mmarTveli

partia „qarTuli ocneba demokratiuli

saqarTvelos” (SemdgomSi

„qo”) liderebis reitingi,

gamokiTxvis Sedege-

bis mixedviT, aseTia:

saqarTvelos premier-ministri

giorgi gaxaria 65% dadebiTad

afasebs, 35% _ uaryofiTad;

Tbilisis meri, „qos” generaluri

mdivani kaxa kalaZe 55%

dadebiTad, 45% _ uaryofiTad;

„qos” Tavmjdomare da damfuZnebeli,

biZina ivaniSvili

48% dadebiTad, 52% _ uaryofiTad;

Tavdacvis ministri irakli

RaribaSvili 45% pozitiurad,

55% _ uaryofiTad;

parlamentis Tavmjdomare

arCil TalakvaZe 37% pozitiurd;

63% _ uaryofiTad;

„qos” aRmasrulebeli mdivani

da „qos” winasaarCevno kampaniis

Stabis xelmZRvaneli

irakli kobaxiZe 33% pozitiurad;

67% negatiurad.

IPSOS-s reitingi alokaciiT

da alokaciis gareSe

frangulma kompania IPSOS-ma

„mTavari arxis” dakveTiT

arCevnebamde ramdenime kviriT

adre rigiT mesame kvleva Caatara.

kiTxva, momdevno kviras

rom saparlamento arCevnebi

gaimarTos, romel partias miscemdiT

xmas?

„qarTuli ocneba” 26.2%,

„enm da gaerTianebuli opozicia”

17.8%, „strategia aRmaSenebeli”

5.3%, „evropuli saqar-

Tvelo” 5.1%, „lelo” 2.7%,

„girCi” 2.7%, „leiboristuli

partia” 2.1%, „patriotTa aliansi”

1.2%, „erTiani saqarTvelo”

0.7%, „moqalaqeebi” 0.5%,

„sxva partiebi” 1.7%, ar vici

an uari pasuxze 34%.

igive SekiTxvaze, pasuxebi

alokaciiT:

„qarTuli ocneba” 40.3

(+3.1)%, „enm da gaerTianebuli

opozicia” 31.2 (+4.0)%, „evropuli

saqarTvelo” 6.8 (-3.8)%,

„strategia aRmaSenebeli” 6.8

(+0.7)%, „lelo” 4.5 (-1.8)%,

„girCi” 3.4 (+1.5)%, „leiboristuli

partia” 2.6 (+0.5)%, „patriotTa

aliansi” 1.5 (-0.6)%,

„erTiani saqarTvelo” 1.2,(-

0.6)%, „moqalaqeebi” 1.0 (-0.7)%,

„sxva partiebi” 0.7 (-2.3)%.

„mTavari arxis” dakveTiT IP-

SOS-ma kvleva 8-15 oqtombris

CaTvliT periodSi Caatara.

saqarTvelos masStabiT sul

1500 respondenti gamoikiTxa.

cdomilebis farglebi ki +-

2,5%.

rogor gadaarCines svanebma daviTgareja gaudabnoebisgan?

mTeli XX saukunis manZilze daviTgarejasa da

maka mosiaSvili

mis samonastro kompleqss ramdenime beri, mwyemsi,

599 97 25 55

rusi duxobori, azerbaijaneli mwyemsebi da aseu-

lobiT cxvari Tu afarebda Tavs... mravali weli

sabWoTa saqarTvelo cdilobda, rom Tan eRiarebina daviTgareja kulturuli

memkvidreobis Zeglad da Tan araferi gaekeTebina mis SesanarCuneblad...

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

dRevandeli gadmosaxedidan advilia

daviTgarejiT apelireba, magram iyo

wlebi, roca iq misasvleli gzac ki ar

arsebobda.

1970-ian wlebSi gansakuTrebuli

yuradReba miaqcies daviTgarejis teritoriaze

dasaxlebuli punqtebis ga-

Zlierebas. maSin kremli ar fiqrobda,

rom iq Casaxleba unda ganxorcielebuliyo.

daviTgarejis garSemo 70 heqtari

samxedro poligons ekava. Tavis droze,

berebis garda, garejis samonastro kompleqsTn

aravin cxovrobda. kompleqsis

sakiTxi yvelaze aqtualuri gaxda,

roca sagarejoSi raikomis mdivnad

medea mezvriSvili dainiSna.

dasawyisSi udabnos velze dasaxldnen

azerbaijanelebi da duxoborebi.

mogvianebiT, Camoasaxles ramdenime

aseuli ojaxi sxvadasxva raionidan, maT

Soris, saingilodanac, magram ingilo

qarTvelebi, ratomRac, ukan wavidnen.

udabnos velze safuZveli Caeyara axal

qarTul sofels, sadac saxelmwifo

muSaobda ara mxolod samrewvelo da

agronomiuli mimarTulebiT, aramed

muSaobdnen arqeologebic.

80-ian wlebSi erovnul ganmaTavisufelebeli

moZraobis erT-erTi

mTavari moTxovna iyo daviTgarejis

teritoriidan samxedro poligonis

gayvana. samxedro poligoni ver gaauqmes,

Tumca srolebi akrZales...

sinamdvileSi, qarTveli Cinovnikebi

sabWoTa kavSiris Tvalis asaxvevad cdilobdnen,

rom daviTgareja ar daetovebinaT

da iq sicocxle SeetanaT.

rogor?

***

me-20 saukunis 80-iani wlebis Sua periodSi

svaneTSi miwisZvram da mewyerma

asobiT adamiani saxlis gareSe datova.

saxelmwifos mier SemuSavebuli gansaxlebis

gegmis mixedviT, dazaralebuli

ojaxebis umetesoba iZulebuli gaxda,

sagvareulo sacxovrebeli mietovebina.

1987 wlis 7 Tebervals, svaneTidan

asobiT kilometris moSorebiT, adamianis

cxovreba Tavidan daiwyo. ekomigrantebs

daxvdaT aSenebuli, gamzadebuli

saxlebi, sadac iyo yvelaferi, rac

ki adamians sWirdeboda, magram garSemo

aRar iyo mTebi, mdinareebi, tyeebi... saxlis

gareT iyo Tvaluwvdeneli udabnos

tramalebi... es gaxldaT cxovreba udabnoSi...

yvela saxlSi enTo cecxli, iyo

sursaTi, sxva sayofacxovrebo nivTebi...

magram versad naxavdiT svaneTs.

sabWoTa kavSiris mier ekomigrantebis

sofel udabnoSi gadasaxlebamde arsebul

teritoriaze cxovrobdnen eTnikuri

azerbaijanelebi da ruseTidan

Camosaxlebuli duxoborebis ramdenime

ojaxi.

ekomigrantebis bedis borbali isev

datrialda... movida setyva da daxvda

qva... gaeqcnen zvavsa da mewyers da aRmoCndnen

uwylo velze qarbuqSi. ai, ase

daiwyo udabnos istoria, jer kidev, 80-

iani wlebidan...

sofel udabnos landSafti naxevarudabnos

tipisaa. is municipalitetidan

45 kilometris daSorebiT mdebareobs.

1987 wlis sasikvdilo mewyeri svane-

TSi pirveli ar yofila. msgavsi tragedia

cxra wliT adre sofel WuberSic

datrialda.

64 wlis udabnoeli niko onaini hyveba,

rom sabWoTa kavSirSi xelisufleba

wyvetda xalxTa gadasaxlebis sakiTxs:

_ svanebis udabnoSi Camosaxleba 1987

wlis uecarma, gamanadgurebelma mewyerma

ganapiroba. daugegmavi gadasaxleba,

romelic aucilebloba gaxda, sabWoTa

saqarTvelos mTavrobis mier

swrafad daigegma da ganxorcielda.

udabnoSi Cveni Camosaxleba saero

saqmec iyo, radgan saqarTveloSi erovnuli

grZnobebi nel-nela Rvivdeboda.

yvelam icoda, rom svaneTSi mRvdeli

ar arsebobda, amitom maSin saqarTvelos

patriarqma ilia meorem udabnoeli

svanebi yvela erTad waiyvana da

sionSi monaTla.

1980-ian wlebSi sabWoTa mTavroba

yovelwliurad marTavda koncertebs,

sadac, ZiriTadad, monawileobdnen

qarTuli xalxuri musikis, cekvisa da

sxva xelovnebis warmomadgenlebi.

magram aq iyo amave periodSi erTi

saeWvo garemoebac: sofel udabnoSi,

romelic azerbaijanis sazRvridan ramdenime

kilometrSi mdebareobs, eTnikuri

azerbaijanelebis bevri Taoba

cxovrobda. Casaxlebulma svanebma azerbaijanelebs

kabaluri mdgomareoba

Seuqmnes, rac imiT damTavrda, rom 90-

iani wlebis dasawyisSi udabno datova

yvelam, vinc erovnebiT ar iyo qarTveli.

dRemde S-morCenilia azerbaijanelebis

nasaxlarebi. dResdReobiT svan

ekomigrantebs udabno sakuTar saxlad

miaCniaT da isini daviTgarejis mcvelebad

miiCneven Tavs.

ekomigranti svanebi aRmoCndnen

pirvelebi, romlebmac poligonis gatanaze

daiwyes saubari.

ekomigranti svanebi aRmoCndnen isini,

romlebic daviTgarejaSi dasaxlebul

berebs lukmas awvdidnen.

ekomigranti svanebi aRmoCndnen isini,

romlebic daviTgarejis samonastro

kompleqsSi mrevlis saxiT dabrundnen...

rom ara maTi iq Casaxleba, dRes

sazRvari SeiZleba, sagarejomde yofiliyo

gadmotanili azerbaijanelebis

mier, _ ase exmaureba istorikosi

SoTa batiaSvili dRevandel Seqmnil

mdgomareobas.

svanebis ficxma xasiaTma SeZlo is,

rom erovnuli motivebi gaaRviZa udabnos

gaqvavebul miwaze... svanebis Seupovarma

xasiaTma da miwisadmi damokidebulebam

SeZlo is, rom daviTgareja

azerbaijaneli mwyemsebis Ramis saTevi

aRar iyo... maTma boboqarma sulma daabruna

Zveli qarTuli suli am miwaze...

da dRevandel rukebze saubari sasaciloa.

rukaze ukeTesad sofeli udabno

moyveba istorias...

roca daviTgarejaze vsaubrobT,

unda gavixsenoT mediko mezvriSvili da

yvela is svani, vinc dRes iq cxovrobs

an cxovrobda. rukaze meti saqme maT

gaakeTes _ garejaSi kera gaaRvives da

udabnos suli STaberes.

13


`kartografebis saqme~

2020 wlis saparlamento ar-

nene injgia

Cevnebamde ori kvira darCa. faq-

gia 591 71 39 98 tia, rom opoziciuri erToba ver

Sedga da maT verc saerTo ma-

Joritar kandidatebze moaxerxes koordinacia. Tavis mxriv,

„nacionaluri moZraoba” cdilobs, rom „Zala erTobaSia”

gaerTianebul opoziciad warmoadginos da amomrCevels opoziciuri

erTobis iluzia gauCinos. ramdenad wamoegeba amom-

rCeveli am piarsvlaze, es rTuli saTqmelia.

ra SemTxvevaSi SeuZlia opozicias

mmarTveli gundis damarcxeba?

iyenebs Tu ara xelisu-

fleba winasaarCevnod kovid-19-

s? ra roli aqvs saakaSvils 2020

wlis arCevnebis konteqstSi?

am da sxva mniSvnelovani Temebis

Sesaxeb „qronika+~ poli-

tolog gia nodias esaubra:

_ batono gia, daviTgarejis

Temis wina planze wamoweva xelisuflebis

winasaarCevno kampa-

niis nawilia. xedavT Tu ara imis

niSnebs, rom mmarTvel gunds

„kartografebis saqme” saarCevnod

qulebis misawerad dasWir-

da?

_ niSnebs vxedav, _ es ufro

Serbilebuli gamoTqmaa, am sakiTxis

Sesaxeb. me mgoni, calsaxaa,

rom xelisuflebam es Tema, pirvel

rigSi, winasaarCevno interesebis

gamo wamowia. mas unda, erTi

mxriv, wina xelisuflebis _ „nacionaluri

moZraobis” an, Tundac,

sxva partiebis, vinc wina xelisuflebasTanaa

dakavSirebuli,

diskreditacia; meore mxriv, xelisuflebas

unda kidev erTi

Jestis gakeTeba eklesiis misamar-

TiT da eklesiis mxridan kidev

ufro aqtiuri mxardaWeris

uzrunvelyofa.

_ am procesebSi SeiniSneba Tu

ara rusuli mxaris interesebi?

_ rusuli mxaris pirdapiri

Careva ar Cans, magram rusuli

kvali namdvilad aris. kvali,

pirvel rigSi, im TvalsazrisiT,

rom, zogadad, roca saqme exeba

daviTgarejas, es aris Zalian

mgrZnobiare Tema, romelmac Sei-

Zleba gaafuWos saqarTvelos

urTierTobebi azerbaijanTan.

arada, Cveni qveynisTvis igi aucilebeli

strategiuli mokavSirea.

aseTi urTierTobis gafuWeba ki,

cxadia, ruseTis ocnebaa, radgan

aseT SemTxvevaSi saqarTvelosac

da azerbaijansac sxva gza ar

darCebaT, Tu ara ruseTis yvelanairi

moTxovnis Sesruleba. garda

amisa, am saqmeSi CarTulia ruseTSi

mcxovrebi da moqmedi biznesmeni,

figurirebs ruseTidan

Camotanili rukebi, rac TavisTavad

ar aris utyuari mtkicebuleba,

rom procesSi CarTulia ruseTis

politikuri interesi, magram,

yovel SemTxvevaSi, garkveuli

miniSneba aris.

_ „kartografebis saqmeze”

dakavebulebis mimarT sazoga-

doebis sakmaod didi nawili fiqrobs,

rom isini udanaSauloe-

bi arian da xelisuflebas es aurzauri

winasaarCevnod dasWir-

da. Tqveni SefasebiT, am saqmiT

miaRwia Tu ara xelisuflebam

Tavis mizans?

_ ver vityvi, am Temam rogori

gavlena iqonia masobriv amomrCevelze,

magaliTad, vinc sofel-

Si cxovrobs. Cemi wriT da Cemi

nacnobebiT rom vimsjelo, ar iqneba

swori, magram zogadad varaudis

saxiT SemiZlia vTqva, rom

es saqme TeTri ZafebiT nakeria.

gansakuTrebiT im adamianebis

cixeSi Casma, romlebic, albaT,

sazogadoebis umravlesobas

udanaSaulod miaCnia, ver iqneba

momgebiani xelisuflebisTvis.

_ amis paralelurad, kovid-

19-is rekordulad gazrdili

statistikis miuxedavad, xe-

lisufleba

SezRudvebisgan

maqsimalurad Tavs ikavebs, raze

metyvelebs es faqti?

_ mgonia, rom xelisuflebas am

viTarebaSi Zalian unda arCevnebis

Catareba. am fonze is ufro

kargad SeZlebs Tavisi momxreebis

mobilizebas, vidre _ opozicia.

zogadad, korona virusis

sakiTxebze Tu iqneba sazogadoebis

yuradReba gadarTuli, politikaze

naklebad ifiqrebs xalxi

da es kargia xelisuflebisTvis.

rogorc Cans, es angariSia da amis

gamo yvelam movismineT, rom gaxariam,

praqtikulad, gamoricxa

arCevnebis gadadeba. miuxedavad

imisa, rom inficirebulTa ricxviT

didi xania, gadavaWarbeT

italiis maCveneblebs _ gvaxsovs,

yvelani vuyurebdiT italias da

vambobdiT: vaime, italiaSi ra

xdebao. obieqturad, imaze gacilebiT

uaresi mdgomareobaa axla

Cvens qveyanaSi, magram maincdamainc

mkacri zomebi miRebuli

ar aris. SeiZleba, es sworic aris,

magram maSin aprilsa da maisSi

ratom Caketes qveyana da ratom

miayenes amxela fsiqologiuri

da materialuri zarali amden

adamians? mgoni, es Zalian martivi

logikuri daskvnaa, rom

dRes rodesac 30-40-jer meti adamiani

inficirdeba yoveldRe da

11 adamiani gardaicvala 15 oqtombers,

maisidan seqtembramde

ki _ 19, maSin yvelafris Caketva

ratom iyo gamarTlebuli da axla

ratom ar iReben Sesabamis

zomebs? rogorc minimum, is unda

vTqvaT, rom tyuilad Cagvketes

gazafxulze, _ amis sawinaaRmdego

argumenti ki saerTod ar

arsebobs. im Caketvis gamo Caiwera

xelisuflebam qulebi, ambobdnen

kidec, „ra kargad gavumklavdiT

pandemiaso”, dRes ki

gacilebiT uaresi situacia.

_ am dromde miiCneoda, rom

xelisuflebis yvelaze kargi

mokavSire kovid-19 iyo. Tu ase

gagrZelda statistika, arCev-

nebisTvis SesaZloa Tu ara, rom

xelisuflebas misTvis sazianod

Semoubrundes procesebi?

_ raRac zomiT, albaT, Semoubrundeba,

Tumca gaaCnia, ra zomiT.

xelisufleba fiqrobs, rom

xalxis ukmayofilebis garkveul

gazrdas is gauZlebs. erTia, rom

mosaxleoba ukmayofiloa, magram

meorea, wava Tu ara xalxi arCevnebze?

SeiZleba, ukmayofileba

gaizardos, magram naklebi xalxi

wavides arCevnebze. am SemTxveva-

Si, piriqiT, xelisufleba mogebuli

darCeba.

_ opozicia acxadebs, rom ep-

idemiologiuri viTarebis garTulebis

SemTxvevaSi, Tu amom-

rCevlis garkveuli nawili ar

mivida arCevnebze, legitimuro-

bis sakiTxi kiTxvis niSnis qveS

dadgeba.

_ viRacis TvalSi yovelTvis

dgeboda arCevnebis legitimurobis

sakiTxi kiTxvis niSnis qveS.

SeiZleba, axlac dadges, magram

mere ra?! formalurad, es ar-

Cevnebis legitimurobas eWvqveS

ver daayenebs. Tu amis meSveobiT

„qarTuli ocneba” gamarjvebas

moipovebs da izeimebs, mis mimarT

iuridiuli sabuTebi ar iarsebs,

rom mas unda gadaedo arCevnebi

korona virusis gamo da ar

gadado an Tundac gamoiyena korona

virusis situacia saTavisod.

_ „nacionalurma moZraobam”

sakuTar saarCevno sias gamar-

jvebis sia uwoda, Tumca amave

sias maTive mxardamWerebSi didi

ukmayofileba mohyva. ra gaTvla

aqvs „nacionalur moZraobas”,

roca siaSi sanikiZis, CoCelisa

da sxvebis gvarebs vkiTxulobT?

_ Tu visaubrebT imaze, rom

aqvs Tu ara „nacionalur moZraobas”

calsaxad gamarjvebis Sansi,

maSin amis Sansi mas ar aqvs.

`Tu visaubrebT imaze, rom aqvs Tu ara

`nacionalur moZraobas~ calsaxad gamarjvebis

Sansi, maSin amis Sansi mas ar aqvs.

`nacionaluri moZraoba~, iseve rogorc

èvropuli saqarTvelo~, angariSobs, ra sjobs

misTvis. am SemTxvevaSi, rogorc Cans,

ZiriTadi strategosi mixeil saakaSvilia. misi

azria gadamwyveti. etyoba, man miiCnia, rom is

xalxi, vinc misi momxrea, piradad misi

erTgulia da, albaT, aseTia `nacionaluri

moZraobis~ amomrCevelTa umravlesoba~

nodia:

`gaTvicnobierebuli

adamianebi xvdebian,

rom `Zala

erTobaSia~

opoziciis mxolod

erTi nawilia, Tumca

_ yvelaze Zlieri~

„nacionaluri moZraoba”, iseve

rogorc „evropuli saqarTvelo”,

angariSobs, ra sjobs misTvis.

am SemTxvevaSi, rogorc Cans,

ZiriTadi strategosi mixeil

saakaSvilia. misi azria gadamwyveti.

etyoba, man miiCnia, rom is

xalxi, vinc misi momxrea, piradad

misi erTgulia da, albaT, aseTia

„nacionaluri moZraobis” amomrCevelTa

umravlesoba. es adamianebi

mas nebismier SemTxvevaSi

miscemen xmas, radgan sxva wasasvleli

arsad aqvT da garkveulad

maT sjeraT, rom Tuki miSa amas

akeTebs, saqmisTvis asea saWiro.

meore mxriv, sruliad gansxvavebuli

xalxis CarTva, rogoric

aris CoCeli da oqriaSvili, aseve

gubaz sanikize, respublikelebi,

siis pirvel nomrad buba kikabi-

Zis Casma, es xalxi cot-cota

raRac amomrCevels moiyvans, _

rogorca Cans, gaTvla es aris da

me namdvilad ar maqvs imis instrumentebi,

rom Sevafaso, gaamarTlebs

Tu ara es gaTvla. maincdamainc

siZlieris niSani es ar

aris, rac niSnavs, rom yovel 1-2

an naxevar procents mniSvneloba

aqvs. am SemTxvevaSi „nacionaluri

moZraoba” gamarjvebas ki

ar fiqrobs, aramed surs, sxva

opoziciur partiebTan SedarebiT

ufro mkafio da gadamwyveti

upiratesoba hqondes.

_ „nacionaluri moZraobis-

gan” gansxvavebiT „evropulma

saqarTvelom” pirobiTi parti-

uli sia waradgina numeraciis

gareSe. maTi TqmiT, isini axali

kulturis damkvidrebas cdi-

loben. ra gavlena eqneba amas

amomrCevelze?

_ ar mgonia, aman didi gavlena

moaxdinos rigiT amomrCevelze.

yovel SemTxvevaSi, amomrCevelTa

umravlesoba amas yuradRebas

saerTod ar miaqcevs. es ufro

mniSvnelovania partiis mSeneblobisTvis,

Sida partiuli samarTlianobisa

da principebis dasamyareblad.

zogadad, partiis

SigniT siis Sedgena mtkivneuli

procesia. vin aris win da vin _

ukan, rogorc Cans, am nabijiT

„evropul saqarTvelos” unda,

rom Sida partiuli demokratia

14

14 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


TeTri ZafebiT nakeria~

ganaviTaros da amiT partia, rogorc

organizacia, Signidan gaa-

Zlieros.

_ „evropuli saqarTvelo”

maqsimalurad cdilobs, tolobis

niSani dasvas biZinasa da mi-

Sas Soris. ramdenad gasagebia da

swori maTi strategia?

_ gasagebia im TvalsazrisiT,

rom mas surs, ufro metad gaemijnos

„nacionalur moZraobas”

da miizidos iseTi amomrCevlebis

xmebi, visTvisac miuRebelia

piradad saakaSvili. Tumca am

moedanze maT bevri konkurenti

hyavT, ufro mkafiod SuaSisturi

partia gaxda „evropuli saqarTvelo”,

magram es dakavebuli niSaa

da am mimarTulebiT bevri mowinaaRmdege

hyavs. CemTvis Znelia

imis Tqma, amiT isini moigeben Tu

waageben. ar mgonia, rom amis gamo

bevri moigon an bevri waagon, magram

es aris maTi angariSi. es

taqtika maT Zalian did cvlilebas

ar miscems, arc negatiursa

da arc pozitiurs.

_ ramdenime kviris win Cven-

Tan interviuSi aRniSneT: „2020

wlis saparlamento arCevnebSi

arafris garantiebi ar arsebob-

so”. mas Semdeg araerTi kvleva

vnaxeT, upiratesoba mainc „qar-

Tul ocnebas” aqvs. dRes ukve

SegviZlia rame konkretulis

Tqma?

_ pirvel rigSi, am kvlevebSi

xalxi unda uyurebdes, Tu rogoria,

erTi mxriv, „qarTuli ocnebisa”

da, meore mxriv, yvela opoziciuri

partiis, romelic realurad

opoziciurad SeiZleba Cav-

TvaloT, Tanafardoba. zog kvlevaSi

„qarTuli ocneba” sjobs,

zogSi Tanabari arian, zogSi opoziciis

jami sjobs. mgonia, rac

wina interviuSi giTxariT, swori

iyo da mas Semdeg meti kvleva

vnaxeT, Tumca igive SemiZlia

gavimeoro dResac, _ arafris garantia

ar arsebobs.

_ mesmis, rom prognozis ga-

keTeba rTulia, magram ramdenad

realisturia is, rom mmarTveli

gundi SeZlebs umravlesobiT

darCenas?

_ garantia ar arsebobs. ar

SemiZlia calsaxa prognozis gakeTeba,

Tumca, ra Tqma unda, es

SesaZlebelia. ar gamovricxav,

rom „qarTulma ocnebam” es SeZlos,

magram Tu is amas SeZlebs,

es ar iqneba xalxis realuri ganwyobis

asaxva, es iqneba im arcTu

kanonieri meTodebis gamoyenebis

Sedegi, romelic wina arCevnebSi

vnaxeT.

_ miuxedavad mravalferovani

partiebisa, mainc dgas Sav-

TeTri arCevani _ biZina Tu miSa?

realurad, orive maTgani yve-

laze mets, swored, erTmaneTze

saubrobs. qmnian Tu ara isini

xelovnurad orpolusianobas,

raTa amiT garkveuli sargebeli

miiRon?

_ cxadia, rom am partias sargebeli

aqvs im STabeWdilebis SeqmniT,

rom erT mxares „qarTuli

ocnebaa”, meore mxares ki _ „nacionaluri

moZraoba”. es momgebi-

`zogadad, korona virusis sakiTxebze Tu iqneba sazogadoebis yuradReba

gadarTuli, politikaze naklebad ifiqrebs xalxi da es kargia

xelisuflebisTvis. rogorc Cans, es angariSia da amis gamo yvelam

movismineT, rom gaxariam, praqtikulad, gamoricxa arCevnebis gadadeba.

miuxedavad imisa, rom inficirebulTa ricxviT didi xania, gadavaWarbeT

italiis maCveneblebs - gvaxsovs, yvelani vuyurebdiT italias da vambobdiT:

vaime, italiaSi ra xdebao. obieqturad, imaze gacilebiT uaresi

mdgomareobaa axla Cvens qveyanaSi, magram maincdamainc mkacri zomebi

miRebuli ar aris~

ania „qarTuli ocnebisTvis” da,

ra Tqma unda, „nacionaluri moZraobisTvisac”,

magram mgonia, TandaTanobiT

sul ufro meti

amomrCeveli xvdeba, rom es sura-

Ti xelovnuradaa Seqmnili da

sxva moTamaSeebic arian, romlebic

SeiZleba, cal-calke, „qarTul

ocnebasac” da „nacionalur

moZraobasac” CamorCebian, magram

mniSvnelovani moTamaSeebi arian

_ SeiZleba aRmoCndes, rom maT

gareSe mTavroba ver Seiqmneba.

ubralod, Cven aseTi gamocdileba

ar gvqonia. 2012 wlis mTavrobas

erqva koaliciuri, magram mxolod

sityviT iyo koaliciuri.

amitom, bunebrivia, amomrCevlisTvis

aseTi viTareba uCveuloa,

is SeCveulia aseT orpolusianobas.

es arCevnebi garkveulad

gardamtexi SeiZleba aRmoCndes

im TvalsazrisiT, rom pirvelad

aucilebeli gaxdes realurad

koaliciuri mTavrobis Seqmna.

_ mesame prezidenti acxadebs,

rom „nacionaluri moZraoba”

umravlesobiT SeZlebs mosvlas,

Tan cdilobs, rom „Zala erTo-

baSia” gaerTianebul opoziciad

warmogvidginos. aRiqvams Tu ara

amomrCeveli „Zala erTobaSias”

opoziciur gaerTianebad?

_ Cemi azriT, es aris saakaSvilis

erTgvari piarTamaSi, rodesac

man aseTi koalicia Seqmna da

daarqva „Zala erTobaSia”, anu

raki aris erTgvari moTxovna sazogadoebis

did nawilSi, rom

opozicia erTad iyos, rac xalxs

unda imas vakeTebTo, _ es ufro

TamaSia, ra Tqma unda. gaTviTcnobierebuli

adamianebi xvdebian,

rom „Zala erTobaSia” opoziciis

mxolod erTi nawilia, Tumca yvelaze

Zlieri. sxva opoziciur

ZalebTan kavSiris gareSe biZina

ivaniSvilis damarcxeba SeuZlebelia,

magram rogorc Cans, es piarTamaSi

amomrCevlis naklebad

gaTviTcnobierebul nawilzea

gaTvlili. SeiZleba, rogorc

Tqven TqviT, viRac brazdeba imaze,

rom oqriaSvilsa da CoCels

ra unda aqo?! an viRacas SeiZleba

arc respublikelebis iq yof-

ès arCevnebi garkveulad gardamtexi SeiZleba

aRmoCndes im TvalsazrisiT, rom pirvelad

aucilebeli gaxdes realurad koaliciuri

mTavrobis Seqmna~

na siamovnebdes, magram amomrCevlis

raRac nawilze moqmedebs im

TvalsazrisiT, rom rogori moqnilia

saakaSvili da rogor gansxvavebul

xalxTan SeZlo Tanam-

Sromlobao.

_ aRniSneT, rom „Zala erTo-

baSia” opoziciis mxolod erT

nawils warmoadgens. ratom ver

Sedga ufro didi opoziciuri

erToba?

_ SeiZleba iTqvas, rom yvelaze

metad saqme gaarTula mixeil

saakaSvilis faqtorma ori TvalsazrisiT:

erTi is, rom garkveuli

opoziciuri ZalebisTvis da

maTi amomrCevlebisTvis miuRebelia

saakaSvilTan da „nacionalur

moZraobasTan” TanamSromloba;

meore mxriv, bolo TveebSi piradad

saakaSvilis gaaqtiurebam

gaamZafra situacia, gansakuTrebiT

mas Semdeg, rac Tqva, rom

unda moigos „Zala erTobaSiam”,

TviTon unda gaxdes premieri da

a. S. aman, erTgvarad, daasusta

erTad moqmedebis neba, rogorc

saakaSvilis, iseve sxva partiebis

mxridan.

_ fiqrobT, rom saakaSvili

winasaarCevno procesebSi ase aq-

tiurad ar unda yofiliyo

CarTuli?

_ mxolod am procesebs ar

vgulisxmob, man raRac arCevani

unda gaakeTos, _ Tu is aris ukraineli

politikosi, unda iyos

ukraineli politikosi da ase aqtiurad

ar unda ereodes qar-

Tul politikaSi an unda iyos mxolod

qarTul politikaSi.

_ ras emsaxureboda premier-

ministrobis kandidatad misi

dasaxeleba?

_ saakaSvilma ieWviana giorgi

vaSaZeze. Cemi STabeWdileba ase-

Tia: vaSaZem rom daasaxela Tavisi

kandidatura, is amaze gabrazda

da Semdeg daasaxela sakuTari

Tavi. es ar iyo kargad gaazrebuli

nabiji, ufro emociuri gax-

ldaT. misTvis momgebiani nabiji

ar aris. jer erTi, yvela saRad

moazrovne adamianisTvis cxadia,

rom iuridiulad SeuZlebelia,

is arCevnebis Semdeg premier-ministri

gaxdes, raRac periodis

Semdeg SeiZleba, magram gasagebi

samarTlebrivi mizezebis gamo,

rom is ar aris saqarTvelos moqalaqe

da Tan Zebnilia, ver iqneba

premieri, magram mainc daasaxela

Tavi. TiTqos koaliciuri

TanamSromlobis jibrze gaakeTa,

winaswar Tqva, rom me unda viyoo,

Tumca misTvis gasagebi iyo, rom

SeuZlebelia, koalicia mis garSemo

Seikras. praqtikulad, man

provocireba gaakeTa imisa, rac

„evropulma saqarTvelom” mere

ganacxada, rom saakaSvilis premierobas

ar uWerda mxars. sxva

SemTxvevaSi es sakiTxi ar dadgeboda,

magram mas Semdeg, rac saakaSvilma

premierobis kandidatad

daayena Tavi, ukve amomrCevlis

mxridan wamovida zewola,

imave „evropul saqarTveloze”,

rom „aba, Tqven dauWerT mxars

saakaSvilso”? amitom iZulebuli

gaxda „evropuli saqarTvelo”,

mkafio pozicia daekavebina da amiT

ufro daiZaba urTierToba

or yvelaze did opoziciur partias

Soris. aman kidev ufro gaarTula

opoziciis Tundac koordinacia

da SeTanxmebuli moqmedeba.

_ arCevnebamde ori kvira rCe-

ba. eqspertTa nawili fiqrobs,

rom 2012 wels ra rolic „cixis

kadrebma” Seasrula arCevnebis

wina dReebSi, Tu msgavsi masS-

taburi ram ar moxda, „qarTuli

ocneba” moigebs.

_ dRevandeli reitingisa da

administraciuli resursis SerwymiT,

„qarTuli ocneba” favoriti

Cans da mosaxleobac ase fiqrobs.

gamokiTxvebSic SeiZleba

umravlesobam Tqvas, rom surs

mTavrobis cvlileba an koaliciuri

mTavroba, magram prognozs

roca ekiTxebian, maTi umravlesobis

azriT „qarTuli ocneba”

darCeba. ase rom, mesmis, es Sesa-

Zlebelia, magram opoziciis gamarjvebac

SesaZlebelia. garkveul

gamokiTxvebSi Cans, rom „qarTuli

ocnebis” mxardaWeris

klebis tendenciaa, mkveTri ara,

magram SesaZloa, es gagrZeldes.

ase rom, ver gamovricxavT opoziciis

gamarjvebas (igulisxmeba

opoziciuri partiebis jamis gamarjveba).

Tuki es moxda, Semdeg

rTuli amocana dadgeba, rom isini

SeTanxmdnen erTian koaliciur

sqemaze, mTavrobaSi vin rogor

unda iyos warmodgenili.

verc imas gamovricxavT, rom vi-

Racam bolo momentSi „qarTul

ocnebasTan” TanamSromloba ar-

Cios. Zalian rTuli ori nabiji

sWirdeba opozicias, rom mizans

miaRwios: pirveli is, rom opoziciuri

partiebis jamma ajobos

„qarTul ocnebas”, Semdeg ki SeTanxmdnen

koaliciuri mTavrobis

Seqmnaze ara „qarTul ocnebasTan”.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

15


`xelisuflebas ki ara,

iciT, am adamians pativs ratom

giorgi abaSiZe

vcem? _ „ocnebis” sxva warmomad-

genlebisgan gansxvavebiT, arc

uxerxuli kiTxvebis dasmis gamo brazdeba da arc intervi-

uze ambobs xolme uars. saerTod, lado kaxaZe gulaxdili

Tanamosaubrea da yovelTvis imas ambobs, rasac fiqrobs.

interviu, romelic „qronika+~-ma mTawmindis moqmed maJori-

tarTan da „ocnebis” proporciuli siis wevr lado kaxaZesTan

Cawera, tradiciulad, gulwrfelia, rac imas niSnavs, rom

respondents mwvave kiTxvebi ar gauprotestebia da sakuTari

mosazrebebis dasabuTebas faqtebiT Seecada.

mokled, Tavs aRar SegawyenT

da gTavazobT Cemi da lado kax-

aZis saubris, erTgvar, steno-

grafiul Canawers:

_ batono lado, koronis me-

ore talRasa da arCevnebs

rogor xvdebiT?

_ Segnebulad.

_ anu?

_ meore talRas jer kidev

pirvelis TavSekavebis fazaSi

vwinaswarmetyvelebdiT. sxvaTa

Soris, saqarTveloSi koronavirusis

pirveli SemTxveva Tebervlis

bolos gamovlinda, martSi

ki amiran gamyreliZe ukve ambobda,

istorias unda gadavexdoTo,

anu rogorc ki pandemia gamocxadda,

yvelas, gansakuTrebiT

ufros Taobas, analogia 1918

wlis espanuras pandemiasTan

gauCnda. sxvaTa Soris, im pandemias

sikvdiloba Zalian maRali

hqonda _ as milionamde adamianis

sicocxle Seiwira da pirvelze

uaresi meore talRa iyo.

yvela mecnieri axlac ambobs,

rom pandemias talRebi axasiaTebs...

imasac Tavidanve vambobdiT,

rom garkveuli dro unda gavides,

raTa am virusis xasiaTi SeviswavloT.

zogi mecnieri acxadebda,

koronavirusis gadatanis Semdeg,

SesaZloa, organizmma imuniteti

gamoimuSavoso. es Zalian

kargia, magram unda vicodeT, es

imuniteti mudmivia Tu moklevadiani?

imis Sesaxebac araerTxel

msmenia, Tu laparaks vaqcinaze

viwyebT, isic unda vicodeT, rom

vaqcina efeqtiani maSin iqneba,

Tu organizms imunitetis gamomuSavebis

unari aqvso.

_ es samecniero diskursi

gasagebia, magram sxva ram main-

teresebs.

_ mkiTxeT, rac gindaT...

_ msoflios im qveynebSi, ro-

mlebic pirveli talRis mere

absoluturad gaixsna, meore

talRa gasakviric araa, magram

saqarTvelos sazRvrebi dRemde

Caketilia da gamagebineT, in-

feqcia ukontrolod ratom

vrceldeba, anu dReSi aTasze

meti SemTxveva ratom gvaqvs?

„sami muSketeri” da kargi kriz-

ismenejeri sad arian?

_ kidev erTi analogia gaviwydebaT.

_ romeli?

_ CineTi, anu sazRvrebi rom

Caketa, CineTma yvelaferi utal-

Rod gadaiara. amas ratom ar ambobT?

_ vityvi, magram ar mogewonebaT:

CineTSi dReSi, maqsi-

mum, 8 SemTxveva fiqsirdeba,

CvenTan ki korona kardakar da-

dis. arada, rusebis garda

saqarTveloSi aravin Semodis...

_ Sekavebis fazaSi samecniero

windaxeduloba aucilebeli iyo,

radgan virusis amoucnobi mxaris

gasagebad dro mogvego.

sxvaTa Soris, SvedeTma gazafxulzec

araferi Caketa.

_ batono lado, saqarTveloze

gekiTxebiT _ am kargi me-

nejerebis xelSi korona ratom

dagveria?

_ patara horizontis adamiani

ar xarT.

_ es ra SuaSia?

_ saqme pandemiasTan gvaqvs,

pandemiasTan! da igi yvelgan

Taviseburad viTardeba. saqarTvelom

yvelaferi gaakeTa, rom

meore talRisTvis dro moego.

iciT, dasawyisSi ramdeni laboratoria

gvqonda?

_ ori, ha-ha, sami. ise, dRes

bevria, magram laboratoriebze

bevri kiTxvis niSani arsebobs.

_ nebsiT Tu uneblieT isev

„Cortis” Cagdeba gindaT. ki batono,

me wamogyvebiT, magram mosaxleoba

ar davabnioT... mokled,

Tavidan sul oTxi laboratoria

iyo da maSinve umaRlesi xarisxis

„pisiar” testebs vakeTebdiT,

radgan vicodiT, rom antisxeulebis

testebiT SeiZleba, bevri

cdomileba yofiliyo. dRes

25 laboratoria muSaobs da amis

momzadeba patara saqme ggoniaT?

700 aTasi testi gakeTda...

_ keTili, magram qveyanaSi

korona aqamdec masobrivad

cirkulirebda, magram vinaidan

sakmarisi laboratoria ar

gvqonda, yvela inficirebulis

gamovlena ver xerxdeboda, ara?

_ rogor fiqrobT, ramdeni

koronavirusi arsebobs?

_ amis codna momeTxoveba?

_ 8 miliard 500 milioni koronavirusia.

_ da mere?

_ koronavirusis Stami CemSi

rom Semova, sxvanairi xdeba, Sen-

Si _ sxvanairi da yvela individ-

Si masSi arsebul sust rgols,

ase vTqvaT, imeorebs. koronavirusis

es Stami ki yvela im Stamisgan

gansxvavebulia, romelic

kacobriobam aqamde gamoiara. ai,

swored amis gamoa kiTxvis niSnebi

gaCenili da, Sesabamisad, rame

standartis Seqmna Zalian Znelia.

amitom yvela qveyana Tavis gzas

daadga. marTalia, saqarTveloSi

arsebuli klinikuri SemTxvevebis

marTva koordinebuli iyo,

magram, albaT, gaxsovT, Cven ise-

Ti wamali gamoviyeneT, romelic

bevrma gaakritika, Tumca CvenTan

lado kaxaZe:

`mavneblebma aWaraSi

amxela mitingi

upirbadod da

socialuri distanciis

daucvelad

Segnebulad Caatares!~

gaamarTla.

_ es wamali, faqtia, aRar amarTlebs

_ bolo dros, dain-

ficirebulTa raodenobaze rom

aRaraferi vTqvaT, gardacv-

lilTa ricxvic dramatulad

izrdeba.

_ samwuxarod, gardacvlilTa

raodenoba mxolod CvenTan ki

ara, mTel msoflioSi moimatebs...

imis Tqma gindaT, rom

eqimebi, sistema da xelisufleba

pacientebs Segnebulad klaven an

rame informacias malaven?

_ ara, amis ki ara, imis Tqma

minda, rom krizismenejerebisTvis

taSis dakvra, mgoni, ga-

dametebuli iyo!

_ araviTari! xelisuflebas ki

ara, erTianobas vukravdiT taSs!

_ sad korona da sad _ er-

Tianoba, batono lado!

_ yvelani erTad viyaviT. Zalian

kargi Jurnalisti xarT da

gTxovT, 1918 wlis monacemebi

waikiTxeT.

_ wakiTxuli maqvs.

_ iciT, maSindeli mecnierebi

ras ambobdnen? _ pirbade gaike-

TeT da distancia daicaviTo.

_ kargi ram gamaxseneT: pi-

radad me pirbades yvelgan va-

tareb, sadac saWiroa, magram ai,

„ocnebis” warmomadgenlebi am

rekomendcias ar icaven. magaliTad,

sveticxovlobaze pre-

mieri moxuci patriarqis gver-

diT uniRbod idga. amas ama-

rTlebT?

_ amasac individis doneze nu

CamoiyvanT!

_ individis doneze ki ar

Camomyavs, imas vambob, rom rekomendaciebs

Tavad xelisu-

falni ar asruleben.

_ imas ratom ar ambobT, am

mavneblebma aWaraSi amxela mitingi

Segnebulad upirbadod da

socialuri distanciis dacvis

gareSe rom Caatares?

_ qronologiurad mivyvebi,

anu jer sveticxovloba iyo,

mere ki _ „nacebis” baTumuri

aqcia...

_ absoluturad yvelas, Cemi

ojaxis wevrebsac, movuwodeb da

vuCoqeb: Zalian gTxovT, pirbade,

romelic gadamwyvetia, atareT.

pirbadis miuxedavad, distanciac

daicaviT da erTmaneTs pirispir

didxans nu elaparakebiT!

es ki arada, parlamentSi sanqcie-

`Tavidan sul oTxi laboratoria iyo da

maSinve umaRlesi xarisxis `pisiar~ testebs

vakeTebdiT, radgan vicodiT, rom

antisxeulebis testebiT SeiZleba, bevri

cdomileba yofiliyo. dRes 25 laboratoria

muSaobs da amis momzadeba patara saqme

ggoniaT? 700 aTasi testi gakeTda...~

bi SemoviReT da simarTle giTxraT,

Semrcxva: adamians sakuTari

janmrTelobisTvis aseTi swori

mowodebis ugulebelyofa ratom

unda sWirdebodes? Cveni Tavis

mtrebi xom ar varT?! sxvaTa

Soris, adamianebs ar sjeraT,

rom narkotiki klavs da mainc

ikeTeben. ai, dResac ramdenia,

vinc ambobs, virusi ar arsebobs

an arsebobs, magram ar klavso?!

_ hoda, raki korona arsebobs

da klavs, amitom 19-Si arc au-

ditoriebSi unda dawyebuliyo

swavla.

_ lokdaunma, romelic pirveli

talRis dros gamovacxadeT,

maRali Sedegi mogvca. aseTi organizebuloba

yvelasTvis saCvenebeli

gaxda. sxvaTa Soris, albaT,

isic gaxsovT, gazafxulze

viRacebi xelisufalT brals

rom sdebdnen, koronavirusis

raodenobis gazrda ZaliT unda-

To... es cudi da sazizRari politikaa,

magram mosaxleobas verafers

vurCev, analizs yvela

TviTon gaakeTebs.

_ ise, ra amis pasuxia da, ko-

ronaSemTxvevebis rekorduli

matebis miuxedavad, quCebs aRar

vrecxavT da xom ar iciT, ra-

tom?

_ quCebs marto Cven ki ar

vrecxavdiT, amas amerikelebi,

frangebi, germanelebi, italielebi

da Cinelebic akeTebdnen.

_ CineTSi, SeiZleba, trotu-

arebs recxavdnen, Cven ki didi

gulmodginebiT manqanis saval

nawilebs vaprialebdiT da Tan

Tbilisis merias taSs vukrav

av-

diT! quCebis kurTxevaze aRar-

afers vambob...

_ Tqven SeiZleba, imasac uSvebT,

rom koronavirusi ar arsebobs.

_ arsebobs, magram amixseniT,

pirveli talRis dros trasebs

ratom vrecxavdiT da axla ra-

tom aRar vrecxavT?

_ janmodanac iyo miTiTeba,

rom sivrceebi dasufTavebuliyo.

_ batono lado, quCebi koro-

nis gareSec unda davasufTavoT

xolme...

_ ki batono, quCebis dasufTavebas

dilaobiT yovelTvis

16

16 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


erTianobas vukravdiT taSs!~

mivesalmebi, radgan axali dRe

sisufTaveSi daviwyoT! ise, quCebi

maSinac sufTavdeboda, roca

sakrebulos Tavmjdomare viyiavi.

_ eg revoluciamde iyo, ba-

tono lado, axla ki, madloba

RmerTs, koronam mogviswro,

Torem merias quCebis morecxva

arc gaaxsendeboda...

_ ra revolucia, kaco, saqarTvelo

damoukidebeli rom gaxda,

sakrebulos Tavmjdomare

mere viyavi.

_ vici, magram didi oqtombris

ki ara, „vardebis revolu-

cias” vgulisxmob.

_ e. i., imas, rac 2003 wels

moxda, Tqvenc revoluciad miiCnevT,

ara?

_ ra Tqma unda... Tqven, ra, ase

ar fiqrobT?

_ me imas vambob, rac absolutur

WeSmaritebas Seexeba. is

revolucia ki ara, karze amxedreba

da im potencialis gamoyeneba

iyo, romelic maSindelma

xelisuflebam moitana. sxvaTa

Soris, ruseTis jaris gayvanac

daibrales, magram es jari „nacionalebs”

ar gauyvaniaT.

_ batono lado, rakiRa sityva

politikaze Camovarda, maxsovs,

ramdenime Tvis win miTxariT,

Tu „ocneba” maJoritarad

aRar warmadgens, Cems profesias

davubrundebio. maJori-

tarobis kandidati ara, magram

„ocnebis” proporciul siaSi

xarT...

_ ase ar miTqvams.

_ aba, rogor TqviT?

_ erTi rigiTi jariskaci var

da sadac metyvian, iq davdgebimeTqi.

zustad es gavimeore Cems

did ojaxSic da adekvaturi pasuxi

miviRe, anu sadac var, es

imas niSnavs, rom gundma, romel-

Sic me moviazrebi, ase daminaxa.

ise, politikaSi rom var, xom ar

gwyinT?

_ mirCevnia, isev medicinaSi

moRvaweobdeT. bolos da bo-

los, politika xom binZuria,

Tanac „ocnebis” mimarT sazoga-

doebaSi

araerTgvarovani

damokidebulebaa da ar minda,

vinmem cudi Tqvenzec Tqvas...

_ Tqven gindaT, rom politikaSi

iseTi adamianebi iyvnen,

rogoric miSa saakaSvilia da

romelic qveyanas daangrevs? es

mogwonT?

_ jer erTi, miSas maSinac

vakritikebdi, roca prezidenti

iyo. meorec, 2016-Si im adami-

anebis gverdiT ideqiT, romelTac

saakaSvilis mimarT simpa-

Tia aqvT _ moZraobas „saxelm-

wifo xalxisTvis” vgulisxmob...

_ jer erTi, am partiaSi ar

vyofilvar. meorec, rom icodeT,

es CemTvis yvelaze didi

laqaa.

_ ratom?

_ is adamiani, romelmac iq

mimiyvana da mTxova, dResac bodiSs

mixdis, es ra ubedurebaSi

amoyavi Tavio. simarTle giTxraT,

verasodes warmovidgendi,

rom am partiis mmarTveli „nacionaluri

moZraoba” iqneboda.

samwuxarod, mec Sevcdi, Tumca

vinmem miTxras, rom maSin „nacionaluri

moZraobis” romelime

nabiji gavamarTle da ar gavakritike...

_ Tu ar meSleba, leiboristebTan

yofnasac Secdo-

mad miiCnevT, ara?

_ ara, ara... socialuri da

janmrTelobis wina planze

wamowevis idea arasodes damviwyebia,

magram imaT politikuri

sibinZureebi Caidines da amaze

pasuxismgeblobas ver aviReb!

_ mokled, xom ar dadgeba

dro, roca politikaSi mesamed

Sesvlas inanebT?

_ ar vinaneb!

_ ratom?

_ es Segnebulad gavakeTe. saerTod,

cxovreba, maT Soris, politika

da Jurnalistikac procesia.

ise, reigani jer demokrati

iyo, mere _ damoukidebeli

profkavSiris wevri, bolos ki _

SesaniSnavi respublikeli prez-

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

àbsoluturad yvelas, Cemi ojaxis wevrebsac, movuwodeb da vuCoqeb: Zalian

gTxovT, pirbade, romelic gadamwyvetia, atareT. pirbadis miuxedavad,

distanciac daicaviT da erTmaneTs pirispir didxans nu elaparakebiT!~

identi.

_ es ra SuaSia?

_ mTavaria, Sen vin xar da ara

_ is, sxva cudi kacia Tu ara.

_ vici, rom kargi adamiani

xarT da iciT, pativs ratom

gcemT? _ „ocnebis” sxva wevrebisgan

gansxvavebiT, arc uxerx-

ul kiTxvebs gaurbixarT da arc

Jurnalistebs ubrazdebiT.

_ rogor SeiZleba, Tavs dagesxaT?

piriqiT, madloba unda

giTxraT, rom Cemi azri gainteresebT.

es yvelaze kargi formaa,

roca adamianebi WeSmaritebis

gzas eZeben. iciT, eqimebma rogori

uxerxuli kiTxvebis dasma

ician da Tundac me pacientis-

Tvis ramdeni uxerxuli kiTxva

damisvams?

_ marTla?

_ am kiTxvebs imitom vsvam,

rom daavadebis saTave movZebno.

Tqven swor kiTxvebs svamT, mwvaved

ki imas eCveneba, vinc pasuxisTvis

mzad araa.

ìs adamiani, romelmac iq mimiyvana da mTxova,

dResac bodiSs mixdis, es ra ubedurebaSi

amoyavi Tavio. simarTle giTxraT, verasodes

warmovidgendi, rom am partiis mmarTveli

`nacionaluri moZraoba~ iqneboda. samwuxarod,

mec Sevcdi, Tumca vinmem miTxras, rom maSin

`nacionaluri moZraobis~ romelime nabiji

gavamarTle da ar gavakritike...~

_ hoda, „ocneba” yvelas, vinc

mwvave da uxerxul kiTxvas

svams, „nacionals” eZaxis...

_ Jurnalists nebismieri kiTxvis

dasmis ufleba aqvs, oRond

interpretireba ar unda moaxdinos.

samwuxarod, arian iseTebi,

romlebic Jurnalistikas arcxvenen

an Jurnalistikas angarebisTvis

iyeneben.

_ sxvaTa Soris, politikas

angarebisTvis politikosebic

iyeneben...

_ diax, magram TeTri da Savi

kontrastuli ferebia, rasac xalxi

kargad arCevs. metic, xalxi

politikosebSi uamrav niuanss

amCnevs, anu am Sexedulebebs agrovebs,

wonis, xednis, yvelafer

amas aanalizebs da saarCevno

yuTTan ise midis. es demokratiis

yvelaze kargi formaa... rom

icodeT, JurnalistebTan ise

vurTierTob, rogorc potenciul

pacientebTan.

_ ratom?

_ im adamians, vinc tkivilze

Civis, potenciur pacientad vuyureb,

radgan misi tkivilis SemsubuqebaSi

Cemi roli da adgili

davinaxo. amaSi cudi ra aris?

_ araferi, radgan piradad

mec politikosebs ise vuyureb,

rogorc potenciur pacientebs

_ uxerxul kiTxvebs imitom vusvam

xolme, rom diagnozamde mi-

vide!

_ Jurnalistisgan gansxvavebiT,

eqimi mkurnalobas niSnavs.

eqimma politikosma ki mxolod

sityvieri mkurnaloba ki ar unda

daniSnos, aramed es mkurnaloba,

normatiuli aqtis saxiT,

qaRaldzec unda gadaitanos.

_ keTili da sanam dagemSvidobebiT,

batono lado, miTx-

ariT, „ocneba” xelisuflebaSi

mesame vadiTac darCeba?

_ rasakvirvelia!

_ aseTi darwmunebuli ratom

xarT?

_ sakonstitucio cvlilebebiT

„ocnebam” iseTi ram gaakeTa,

rom Zalian didi pativiscemis

Rirsia. es nabiji 2024 wels evrokavSiris

karze dasakakuneblad

daufasdeba! sxvebi amaze ar

Tanxmdebodnen, „ocnebam” ki es

gadawyvetileba xelisuflebaSi

yofnis dros miiRo.

_ mesmis, magram mSier xalxs

didad ar aRelvebs, arCevnebi

proporciuli sistemiT Cat-

ardeba Tu _ SereuliT...

_ Tqven sxva kuTxiT dainaxeT

da socialuri kuTxiT waiyvaneT.

kargi, wamogyvebiT da getyviT,

rom es xelisufleba winamorbedebze

asi aTasjer humanuria!

_ kargi, ra, batono lado.

wina xelisuflebebis dros as

larad lamis mTeli Tvis

produqts vyidulobdi, axla ki

as larad manqanaSi sawvavs vasx-

am da erT kolof sigarets vy-

idulob...

_ apa-pa-pa! komunistebis

dros erTi maneTiT benzins

Caasxamdi.

_ ukacravad, komunistebi

dRevandelobasTan ra kavSirSi

arian?

_ komunistebis dros 58-e muxli

arsebobda da Tu Seni saxli

an coli moewonebodaT, dagi-

Werdnen. maSin proletariatis

diqtatura hqondaT, wina xelisuflebas

ki _ „me mindas” diqtatura.

dRes es diqtatura aRara.

dRes terori araa da sruli

Tavisuflebaa! saerTod, saqar-

Tvelo fizikuri ganadgurebis

piras araerTxel damdgara _

xalxs sasmel-saWmeli enatreboda,

magram qarTveloba aravis

dauTmia. amaT ki yvelaferi hqondaT

da gareji daTmes!

_ batono lado, sasamarTlom

unda daadginos, vinmem gareji

daTmo Tu ara, amitom udanaSau-

lobis prezumpcia ar unda

daarRvioT!

_ garejs vin daaTmobinebda,

magram xeli moaweres...

_ usamarTloba swored esaa,

rom adamianebs brali ar aqvT

damtkicebuli da „ocneba” ukve

damnaSaveebad acxadebs!

_ am Temaze SemiZlia, vilaparako

da nebismieri adamiani, maT

Soris, Jurnalistebic gavaSiSvlo.

_ kargi, gamaSiSvleT, magram

imaSic dameTanxmeT, rom es Tema

saarCevno konteqstSi wamoswia

xelisuflebam...

_ am Temaze laparaki 2014

welsaa dawyebuli.

_ hoda, saqmec maSin aReZraT.

_ dokumentebi moZiebuli ar

iyo, dRes ki imxela masala Camovida.

_ masala ki ar Camovida,

aramed, rogorc biznesmeni xi-

daSeli ambobs, sazRvris dacvis

departamentidan da erovnuli

biblioTekidan aiRo.

_ saqarTvelos damoukideblobisa

da sarwmunoebrivi ideis

mimarT aseTi sinqronuli Seteva,

sabotaJia. aseTi sabotaJistebi

1991 wlidan SigniT gvyvanan da

maT, samwuxarod, ruseTi kvebavs...

_ kargi, batono lado, sadac

iqnebiT, „ocnebaSi” Tu sxvagan,

warmatebas gisurvebT!

17


àdamianebs ndoba, Rirseuli realobisa

wlebia, saqarTveloSi partieb-

giorgi abaSiZe

is bumia, rasac ceko-s monaceme-

bic mowmobs _ wlevandel arCevn-

ebSi lamis 6 aTeuli partia monawileobs da umetesobas araTu

gamarjvebis imedi aqvs, aramed isic sjera, rom saqarTvelos

gadarCena, minimum, misi sulieri misiaa. am fonze ar gagikvird-

ebaT, Tu gaigebT, rom kidev erTi axali partia dafuZnda,

Tumca saxalxo moZraoba „qristian-demokratebi” sxvebisgan

imiT gansxvavdeba, rom mis saTaveebTan axalgazrdebi, e. i., isini

dganan, romlebsac politikaSi yofnis mavne 30-wliani gamoc-

dileba ar gaaCniaT. samagierod, es adamianebi, rogorc saxalxo

moZraobis damfuZnebeli da erT-erTi lideri ani rexviaSvili

ambobs, TavianT saqmeSi profesionalebi arian.

sxvaTa Soris, axlaxan ani

rexviaSvili saerTaSoriso iniciativiT

gamovida, rac Tbili-

sis samSvidobo qalaqad gamo-

cxadebas iTvaliswinebs. im

dros, roca Cvengan 200 kilome-

trSi, somxeTsa da azerbaijans

Soris, saomari moqmedebebi mimdinareobs,

TbilisisTvis samSvidobo

qalaqis statusis mini-

Weba, marTlac, mniSvnelovania,

miT umetes, rom Cveni respon-

dentis TqmiT, am iniciativas

vaSingtonSic gaaJRerebs da

briuselSic.

mokled, ratom gadawyvita

axali partiis dafuZneba da ra

miznebi aqvs saxalxo moZraoba

„qristian-demokratebs”?

_

“qronika+“ ani rexviaSvils es-

aubra:

_ ani, rogor xar, saarCevn-

od rogori ganwyoba gaqvs da,

saerTod, 31 oqtombrisgan ras

elodebi?

_ ganwyoba? _ albaT, iseTi,

rogorc yvelas, magram me mainc

gansxvavebuli da gansakuTrebuli

maqvs.

_ anu?

_ saparlamento arCevnebSi

pirvelad vmonawileob da mimaCnia,

rom dros, gamowvevebsa da

xalxSi gaCenil moTxovnebsa Tu

survilebs, rom axali liderebi

da axali Zalebi movidnen, zustad

vpasuxobT. saerTod, ukiduresi

daRlilobis drosac ar

mtovebs emocia, rom axali Taobis

ideologiur-politikur partias,

TanamoazreebTan erTad,

sakuTari xeliTa da profesionalTa

araCveulebrivi gundiT

vqmni. diax, saxalxo moZraoba

„qristian-demokratebi” axali

Taobis politikuri Zalaa. Cven

sufTa furcliT, axali xedvebiT,

didi saerTaSoriso kontaqtebiTa

da axali energiiT viwyebT.

did politikaSi es Cemi da

Cemi gundis pirveli nabijebia.

_ e. i., arCevnebSi rom pirve-

lad monawileob, ar geSinia?

_ ara, SiSis ki ara, ufro ukmarisobis

gancda maqvs.

_ ratom?

_ drois simciris gamo _ sul

mesame Tvea, rac Cveni politikuri

partia dafuZnda da sazogadoebrivi

televiziis garda,

sxva televizias interesic ki ar

gauCnda, rom axali politikuri

Zala miepatiJebina. ar minda,

vinmem sxvanairad gaigos, magram

Cvens qveyanaSi mediac polarizebulia,

anu teleplatforme-

bi da sxva institutebi xalxis

dakveTasa da survilebs ver ewevian.

arada, maTze, maT mflobelebsa

da dRis wesrigze briusels

Tu sxva politikur dedaqalaqebs

sruliad sxvagvarad

vesaubrebodi...

sxvaTa Soris, kovidma yvela

regionSi mogzaurobisa da amomrCevlis

piradad gacnobis Sesa-

Zlebloba ar mogvca, magram

optimizmi da imis gancda, rom

qveyanas axali Taobis liderebi

sWirdeba, ar dagvikargavs.

mokled, imis Tqma minda, rom

mudam movlenebisa da umniSvnelovanesi

reformebis centr-

Si viqnebiT.

_ keTili, magram politika-

Si ratom CaerTe?

_ kargi kiTxvaa... ramdenime

faqtorma erTdroulad imuSava.

_ kerZod?

_ ori saerTaSoriso organizaciis

damfuZnebeli da lideri

var da miuxedavad imisa, rom

briuselSi Zalian warmatebuli

kariera mqonda, politikur

platformas absoluturad sxva

statusi da Zlieri mniSvneloba

aqvs.magaliTad, rodesac iq axali

iniciativebiT gamovdiodi

da es xSirad xdeboda, mudam meubnebodnen,

gvinda, am iniciativebis

gadawyvetilebebis mimRebis

rolSi gnaxoTo da es sworicaa.

garda amisa, politikosis

ojaxSi gavizarde da mxolod am

mecnierebas ki ara, politikis

kulisebsac kargad vicnob da

rodesac am arenaze amdeni araprofesionalia,

es gadawyvetilebac

swored amitom miviRe...

_ ani, qveyanaSi uamravi partiaa.

ar gerCia, romelime „sta-

Jiani” partiis saxe gamxdariyavi

da axali partia ar dage-

fuZnebina?

_ ramdenime SemoTavazeba

mqonda, magram ar merCia...

_ ise, saxalxo moZraoba

„qristian-demokratebis” mTa-

vari Rirebulebebi ra aris an

Seni gundis wevrebi vin arian?

_ saxalxo moZraoba „qristian-demokratebi”

antikrizisuli

da swrafi ganviTarebis politikuri

platformaa, romlis

liderebic axali Taobis profesionali

da mamaci liderebi

arian. Cven pativs vcemT damoukidebeli

qarTuli saxelmwifos

erovnul da prodasavlur liderebs,

maT wvlilsa da maTi warmatebuli

saqmianobis epizodebs,

magram axla, rodesac yve-

ani rexviaSvili:

`politikur liderebs

jer beladebad

vaqcevT, Semdeg ki

anaTemas gadavcemT da

nel cecxlze vwvavT!~

laferi gaSeSda, rodesac qveyana

gakotrebis zRvarzea da rodesac

xalxi ukiduresi umuSevrobis,

SimSilisa da siRatakis

winaSe dgas, axali energiis, axali

xedvisa da liderTa axali

Taobis droa, Taobisa, romelmac

urTules gamowvevebs unda

upasuxos.

_ da am gamowvevebs upasux-

ebT?

_ diax, aucileblad vupasuxebT!

Tu Cvens saparlamento sias

gadaxedavT, TiToeuli maTgani

Tavisi dargis profesionali da

axali efeqtiani xedvebis lideria.

isini ndobasa da pativiscemas

imsaxureben.

ai, magaliTad, SoTa mgelaZe

ucxoeTSi ganswavluli uniWieresi

geopolitikosi da publicistia,

romelic Tanamedrove

qarTuli politikisTvis namdvili

SenaZenia; maia benia ki inovaciuri

da cifruli ekonomikis

strategiis avtori, mecnierebis

doqtori da profesoria.

sxvaTa Soris, maia benia afxazeTidanaa

da saxalxo moZraobis

mier gamocxadebuli da

saerTaSoriso arenaze ukve aRiarebuli,

afxazebTan ndobis

aRdgenis politikis gaZlierebaSi

umniSvnelovanes rols Seasrulebs.

Cveni gundis erT-erTi wevri

giorgi ebraliZec gaxlavT,

romelic janmrTelobis dacvis

axali efeqtiani programis avtoria.

giorgi medicinis doqtori,

aTenis sauniversiteto

klinikis profesoria da Svede-

Tis, didi britaneTisa da evropis

sxva qveynebis jandacvis organizaciebSi

muSaobis didi gamocdileba

aqvs. aqve, imasac vityvi,

rom saxalxo moZraoba

„qristian-demokratebi” nebismieri

konfiguraciis axal

mTavrobas janmrTelobis ministris

postze giorgi ebraliZis

kandidaturas warudgens!

_ ani, yvelaferi es gasagebia,

magram miTxari, arCevnebis gayal-

bebas elodebi? anu migaCnia Tu

ara, rom 31 oqtombris Semdeg

orpolusiani qarTuli politi-

ka aRar iqneba da „qocebisa” da

„nacebis” garda avanscenaze sxva

partiebic gamovlen?

`saparlamento arCevnebSi pirvelad

vmonawileob da mimaCnia, rom dros,

gamowvevebsa da xalxSi gaCenil moTxovnebsa

Tu survilebs, rom axali liderebi da axali

Zalebi movidnen, zustad vpasuxobT. saerTod,

ukiduresi daRlilobis drosac ar mtovebs

emocia, rom axali Taobis ideologiur-

politikur partias, TanamoazreebTan erTad,

sakuTari xeliTa da profesionalTa

araCveulebrivi gundiT vqmni~

_ xalxic da saerTaSoriso

sazogadoebac mravalpartiul

Sedegs elodeba. saqarTvelo saparlamento

respublikis politikur

reJimSi ukve Sevida, rac

pirdapir moiTxovs, rom parlamentSi

qveynis yvela socialuri

fenis interesebis gamomxatveli

jgufi aucileblad iyos.

_ yvelas vekiTxebi da Senc

gkiTxav: vTqvaT, „ocnebam” demokratiis

principi daarRvia

da xelisuflebaSi mesame vadi-

Tac darCa. aseT SemTxvevaSi ra

moxdeba?

_ es saintereso SekiTxva mTavar

politikur moTamaSeebTan

unda daazusto. garda amisa,

unda Seiqmnas efeqtiani koaliciuri

da antikrizisuli mTavroba,

romelic ekonomikas gaacocxlebs,

lars daastabilurebs,

xalxs Svebas mogvris, qveyanas ki

swrafi ganviTarebis momavals

miscems!

_ vinaidan evropis poli-

tikur dedaqalaqebTan gaqvs

komunikacia, gecodineba, dasavleTisTvis

„ocneba” ufro mis-

aRebia Tu opozicia?

_ Senc araCveulebrivad ici,

rom dasavleTi politikuri liderebisa

Tu partiebis misaRebobas

an miuReblobas gemovnebis

faqtoriT arasodes akeTebs.

dasavleTi, pirvel rigSi,

pativs scems xalxis arCevans da

Tu arCevnebis Semdom gamocdilebas

yuradRebiT mivadevnebT

Tvals, dasavleTis pirveli

frazebi aseTia: pativs vcem xalxis

arCevanso da amis Semdeg

mTavari da kritikuli damokidebuleba

iwyeba.

saerTod, dasavleTi RirebulebaTa

sistemebze dgas da

misTvis yvelaze mTavaria, partniorma

qveyanam demokratiuli

principebi da arCevanis Tavisufleba,

adamianis uflebebi zedmiwevniT

daicvas, aseve hqondes

Tavisufali sasamarTlo sistema,

Ria ekonomika, qveynis stabiluri

ganviTarebis strategia

da mkafiod gamoxatuli mSvidobiani

samezoblo politika.

garda amisa, dasavleTis partniori

qveyana Tanmimimdevruli

unda iyos da saerTaSoriso valdebulebi

daicvas.

18

18 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


da momavlis gancda unda daubrundeT!~

ise, cota Teoriuli pasaJi

gamomivida, magram amiT aqcents

imaze vakeTeb, rom aSS da evrokavSiri

saqarTvelos strategiuli

partniorebi arian. partnioroba

ki ormxriv interessa

da imas niSnavs, rom saqarTveloSi

arsebuli politikuri, samarTlebrivi

da finansuri institutebi

maTi investorebisa da

moqalaqeebisTvis Tanamedrove

da gamarTuli unda iyos. yvelafer

amas dasavleTi, Tavisi

selCoebisa da sxva institutebis

meSveobiT, lamis yoveldRiurad

adevneben Tvals.

dasavleTidan bolo dros

amitomac ismis amdeni kritika,

mowodeba da rekomendacia.

yvelaferi es arCevnebis Semdegac

gagrZeldeba, anu gamarjvebuli

politikuri partiis

aRiarebis mere e. w. filtrebis

mTeli sistema CairTveba.

mokled, marto ar varT. istoriulad

gamocdili partniorebi

gvyavs da efeqtiani ganviTarebis

momavalic gvaqvs.

mTavaria, yvelaferi Cven Tvi-

Ton ar CamovimxoT Tavze.

_ ras gulisxmob?

_ tvinSi jer kidev sabWoTa

kavSiri aqvT da beladi uziT, _

ai, CvenSi mTavari faqtori esaa

da ara _ xalxi, samSoblo da

momavali. am situaciaSi Sedegze

orientirebuli da ganaTlebuli

lideri Zalian ki ara, gadamwyvetad

mniSvnelovania, magram

damoukidebeli saqarTvelos

bolo 30-wlian istorias

sxva gamocdileba aqvs.

_ anu?

_ politikur liderebs jer

beladebad vaqcevT, Semdeg ki am

beladebis erTgulebis gamo

adamianebi realobis gancdasa

da politikur cxovrebaSi TavianT

adgilsa Tu rols, Sesabamisad,

saxesac da Svilebis karg

momavalsac kargaven... mere beladebs

anaTemas gadascemen, nel

cecxlze wvaven da yvelafer

amis Semdeg axali cikli iwyeba...

es traibalizmia (tomobrivi

dapirispireba, midrekileba gancalkevebisken,

kuTxurobis gamovlena

saxelmwifoebriv doneze,

_ red.) da ar varga! es Cveni

cudi gamocdilebaa, romlis

gamoc Rirseulad aravin Semogvxedavs.

es qmnis Cixs da ara

_ ganviTarebas. mxolod Zvirfass

dros ki ara, axali, mcodne

da warmatebuli gamocdilebis

efeqtiani liderebis Semoyvanis

SesaZleblobasac vkargavT.

erTi sityviT, erT wreze

davdivarT! amis Sedegi ki racaa,

yvela kargad vxedavT!

_ Znelia, ar dageTanxmo...

ise, ani, daviTgarejis saqmes

saarCevno provokaciad miiCnev

Tu yvelafer amas ufro Sors

mimavali zraxvebi aqvs?

_ mokled vityvi: saarCevno

procesSi, Tan im dros, rodesac

Sens samezobloSi omia, teritoriuli

davis nebismieri sakiTxis

inicireba provokaciulia da

mniSvneloba ar aqvs, Tu rogo-

`saarCevno procesSi, Tan im dros, rodesac Sens samezobloSi omia,

teritoriuli davis nebismieri sakiTxis inicireba provokaciulia da

mniSvneloba ar aqvs, Tu rogoria `samSobloisturi~ argumentebi an am Temis

inicirebiT vis ra interesebi aqvs~

ria „samSobloisturi” argumentebi

an am Temis inicirebiT vis

ra interesebi aqvs.

_ sxvaTa Soris, swored im

dros, roca somxeT-azerbaijans

Soris SeiaraRebuli kon-

fliqti ganaxlda, rasac e. w.

kartografebis saqmec daemTx-

va, saerTaSoriso ideiT gamoxvedi

da ganacxade, Tbilisi samS-

vidobo qalaqi unda gaxdeso.

ani, am ideis aucilebloba da

siswore damisabuTe...

_ jer erTi, Tbilisi mudam

kavkasiis centris funqcias asrulebda,

anu aq dasavleTisa da

àSS da evrokavSiri saqarTvelos strategiuli

partniorebi arian. partnioroba ki ormxriv

interessa da imas niSnavs, rom saqarTveloSi

arsebuli politikuri, samarTlebrivi da

finansuri institutebi maTi investorebisa da

moqalaqeebisTvis Tanamedrove da gamarTuli

unda iyos. yvelafer amas dasavleTi, Tavisi

selCoebisa da sxva institutebis meSveobiT,

lamis yoveldRiurad adevneben Tvals.

dasavleTidan bolo dros amitomac ismis

amdeni kritika, mowodeba da rekomendacia.

yvelaferi es arCevnebis Semdegac gagrZeldeba,

anu gamarjvebuli politikuri partiis

aRiarebis mere e. w. filtrebis mTeli sistema

CairTveba. mokled, marto ar varT.

istoriulad gamocdili partniorebi gvyavs

da efeqtiani ganviTarebis momavalic gvaqvs.

mTavaria, yvelaferi Cven TviTon ar

CamovimxoT Tavze~

aRmosavleTis Sexvedra yovel-

Tvis saintereso fokuss qmnida.

meorec, saqarTvelos dedaqalaqis

mSvidobis qalaqad gamocxadeba

da aRiareba imas niSnavs,

rom Tbiliss gansakuTrebuli

saerTaSoriso statusis unikaluri

funqcia mieniWeba. amas-

Tan, saqarTvelo mxolod regionSi

ki ara, mTel msoflioSi

konkurentuli da gavleniani

imijis qalaqi gaxdeba. paralelurad,

es statusi saqarTvelos

samxedro provokaciebisgan,

konfliqtebisgan daicavs

da regionis lideri qveynis statuss

davibrunebT! sxvaTa Soris,

am axal iniciativas male

msoflio politikur dedaqalaqebs

gavacnobT, aseve gansaxilvelad

saqarTvelos axal parlamentsa

da nebismieri konfiguraciis

axal mTavrobas gadavcemT.

_ saqme ise midis, rom axali

parlamenti SesaZloa, karga

xans ar gvqondes. anu iziareb

mosazrebas, rom mZime epidvi-

Tarebis gamo arCevnebi unda

gadaidos?

_ ara, ase ar vfiqrob. arCevnebi

politikosebis gadaZaxilgadmoZaxiliT

ar gadaideba.

_ aba, rogor?

_ arCevnebis gadadeba, miT

ufro, kovidis pirobebSi, erTaderT

SemTxvevas eqvemdebareba

_ qveyanaSi sgangebo mdgomareoba

unda gamocxaddes. saamisod

ki, jerjerobiT, aranairi piroba

ar arsebobs. sxva SemTxveva-

Si, kanoniT arCevnebis gadatana

dauSvebelia.

_ ani, unda mekiTxa da damaviwyda:

vin afinansebs Sens par-

tias da Tu finansebi ar gaqvs,

fulis gareSe politikaSi ra-

mis gakeTebas SeZleb?

_ mesame Tvea, saxelmwifo

auditis samsaxuris xelmZRvanels

oficialuri weriliT vamcnob,

rom saxalxo moZraobas finansuri

brunva ar hqonia. es cudia,

Zalian cudia, radgan yvelafers

Tavi rom davaneboT, saarCevno

process Tavisi aucilebeli

moTxovnebi aqvs _ saarCevno

infrastruqtura, cnobadoba

da a. S.... gasagebia, rom mTeli

Cveni codniT, evropuli da

saerTaSoriso gamocdilebiT,

ideologiur-politikur platformas

vqmniT, garSemo Cveni da

yvela Taobis saukeTeso adamianebs

vikrebT da gvinda, movlenebisa

da im warmatebuli reformebis

centrSi viyoT, romelic

xalxsa da qveyanas sikeTes

moutans, magram am dros winasaarCevno

politikuri aqtivobisTvis

finansuri SesaZlebloba

ar gagvaCnia.

erTxel erTma megobarma momwera,

_ rogorc Cans, finansebs

iq ar eZeb, sadac unda eZeboo.

ufinansobis am procesma bevrjer

damaRona da ramdenjerme

cremlic momadina...

sxvaTa Soris, saarCevno kanonmdeblobaSi

1%-iani barieri

CavdeT da amiT axal politikur

liderebsa Tu axal politikur

Zalebs gavuxseniT gza. amitom

axali politikuri partiebisTvis

dafinansebis meqanizmi aucileblad

unda SevimuSavoT, raTa

maT ganviTarebis SesaZlebloba

mivceT. Cven ganviTarebisa da

efeqtiani politikuri saqmianobisTvis

finansuri SesaZlebloba

gvWirdeba! am Temas briuselsa

da vaSigtonSi aucileblad

wamovwev. darwmunebul var, rom

am sakiTxs mxardamWerebi qveynis

SigniTac gamouCndebian.

_ ise, im adamianebTan, romlebisTvisac

politika bizne-

sia, ra saTqmeli gaqvs?

_ politikanebma politikas,

rogorc samoRvaweo asparezss,

funqcia da instituciuri pasuxismgebloba

mTlianad Seucvales.

politikis wre amitomac

Caiketa, siaxlisa da momavlis

mamoZravebeli uniWieresi, mcodne

da gamocdili adamianebi,

romlebmac TavianTi sityva ver

Tqves, TavianTi codna da gamocdileba

xalxsa da momavals ver

SesTavazes, qveynidan midian da

ikargebian! axali saxeebis moTxovnileba

ki gaCnda, magram es

TiTo-orola „axali saxec” am

uZraobis nawilad iqca.

_ Caketil sistemaSi axali

alternativis gaCena rTulia?

_ ra Tqma unda, rTulia, magram

SesaZlebelia da es aucilebelicaa!

Cven uZraobis nawilad

ar viqceviT da skeptikosebic

male mixvdebian, rom Caketili

sistemis Sedegi warsul-

Tan mudmivi Sexvedraa, rac momavals

gvarTmevs. amitomac mivmarTav

axalgazrdebs, aqtiurad

SemouerTdnen Cvens politikur

platformas, rogorc asparezs

da rogorc SesaZleblobebis

areals.

_ CvenSi darCes da zogier-

Ti ambobs, rom mZlavrma opoz-

iciurma partiebma arCevnebi

gayides. amaze ras ityvi?

_ am Temaze saubari ar minda.

_ ratom?

_ arCevnebis Sedegi yvelafers

gamoaCens da xalxi yvelas

gascems pasuxs!

_ bolos, ani, am qveyanaSi,

upirvelesad, ra unda Seicva-

los?

_ yvelaferi.

_ ufro konkretulad?

_ ndobis axalma mTavrobam

swrafi, efeqtiani gadawyvetilebebi

unda miiRos da qveyana-

Si ganviTarebis axali etapi daiwyos.

adamianebs ndoba, Rirseuli

realobisa da momavlis gancda

unda daubrundeT! amasTan,

politikuri leqsika da kulturac

unda Seicvalos. ise, rogorc

vatyob, Cveni qveynis geostrategiuli

mniSvneloba aqamde

veravin dainaxa. arada, msoflio

icvleba da saqarTveloc am

cvlilebebis centrSi unda iyos!

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

19


`samwuxarod, `Cadebebic~ grZeldeboda,

„muSti da idayvi ukve daakaveT

giorgi abaSiZe

da Tqven romeli organoTi unda

wamogwion win?! Rimiliani vuyur-

eb ivaniSvilisa da saakaSvilis erT politikur sibrtyeSi

TanabarmniSvnelovan figurebad warmoCenis morig mavneblur

mcdelobas. elementarulad ar esmiT, rom oligarqi ar udris

reformators da _ piriqiT. didi siamovnebiT vixilavdi

saakaSvilze avtoritetul liderebs opoziciaSi, magram, min-

da giTxraT, rom saakaSvili qarTul politikaSi erTaderTi

politikosia, romelsac hyavs uangaro da gulwrfeli mravalricxovani

gulSematkivari. nu damiwyebT axla garCevebs, cotcota

mxardamWeri yvelas gvyavs, mec da Tqvenco, magram Cveni

gulSematkivrebis jami saakaSvilis mxardamWerTa raodenobis,

albaT, 1/30-ia. gTxovT, vkoncentrirdeT ruseTis damarcxebaze.

premieri gaxdeba is, visac yvelaze meti mxardam-

Weri hyavs da am etapze es mixeil saakaSvilia! momavalSi

SevecadoT, vajoboT mas, davimsaxuroT maRali ndoba. axla

SeeSviT keklucs”, _ es gancxadeba socialur qselSi irakli

Rlontma mas Semdeg gaakeTa, rac gigi ugulavam sazogadoe-

bas mouwoda, _ muSti _ biZinas da idayvi _ miSaso.

irakli Rlonti:

`saakaSvilis

aqtiuroba ruseTsa da

masTan mavneblur

kolaboraciaSi myof

politikosebs aSinebT~

saerTod, „evrosaqebisa” da

„nacionalebis” brZola axla

ar dawyebula da, Sesabamisad,

am Temaze msjelobiT irakli

RlontTan saubrisas dro ar

damikargavs. respondentTan

imis garkvevas Sevecade, sad

aris da ras saqmianobs igi mas

Semdeg, rac partia „kanoni da

samarTali” datova?

mokled, gTavazobT inter-

vius irakli RlontTan:

_ irakli, rogor xar? vici,

rom „Zala erTobaSias” guriis

maJoritarobis StabSi imyofe-

bi, magram aqtiur politikur

cxovrebas ratom CamoSordi?

_ mogesalmebiT, bolo 8 welia,

aqtiuri politikuri cxovrebis

miRma arasdros vyofilvar,

yovelTvis iq viyavi da

var, sadac Cemi xalxisa da qveynis

interesebi gadis! Sesabamisad,

ar mgonia, rom kiTxva sworadaa

formulirebuli.

_ neba momeci, kiTxva ise

davsva, rogorc minda...

_ aqtiuri politikis miRma

ar var, ubralod, am droisTvis

arc erTi politikuri partiis

wevri ar gaxlavarT, Tumca saqarTvelos

aqtiuri moqalaqe da

opozicioneri var, romelmac,

rigi mizezebis gamo, partiul

Tanamdebobaze, aseve wevrobaze

uari Tqva da qveynis samsaxur-

Si am statusebis gareSe ise

vdgavar, rogorc SemiZlia!

saerTod, 2012 wlidan, anu im

dRidan, roca „ocneba” movida

da mravals eZina, eSinoda an va-

Wrobda, opoziciaSi var... davafuZne

politikuri partia, var

mravali politikuri aqciis avtori

an Tanaavtori, bevri mni-

Svnelovani adgilobrivi Tu saerTaSoriso

politikuri formatis

monawile, TiTqmis yvela

saprotesto aqciis spikeri da

a. S., Tumca sakuTar samSoblo-

Si meti ambicia maqvs, vidre Tanamdebobaa.

axla mSobliur guriaSi var,

Cemi Zmis, Cempionis, manuCar

kvirkvelias gverdiT da movigebT

arCevnebs ruseTis winaa-

Rmdeg, movigebT guriisTvis,

saqarTvelosTvis!

diax, guriaSi, Cems xalxTan

erTad, sasicocxlod mniSvnelovan

cvlilebebs vuWer mxars

20

da im kacis gverdiT vdgavar,

visac gulwrfelad vendobi da

meimedeba. es adamiani Cemi megobari,

olimpiuri Cempioni manuCar

kvirkveliaa. mimaCnia,

rom manuCari yvelaze sasurveli

da saimedo kandidatia, vidre

gurias odesme hyolia!

sxvaTa Soris, is mTeli guriis

kandidatia da ara _ mxolod

„Zala erTobaSias” blokis.

amaSi yoveldRiurad vrwmundebi,

rac Cvens xalxTan masTan

erTad davdivar da manuCarisadmi

sazogadoebis damokidebulebas

vxedav.

guriaSi, romelic erT dros

namdvilad sicocxlis samosaxlo

iyo, axla siduxWirem, siRaribem,

daucvelobam da usamarTlobam

fesvebi gaidga da

amis aRkveTa iseT kacs SeuZlia,

vinc brZolis, Sromisa da gamarjvebis

fasi icis.

_ ise, rogorc garedan may-

urebeli, rogor fiqrob,

xalxi xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad,

ufro sworad, imisTvis

mzadaa, rom xelisufle-

baSi axali an, Tundac, yofili

mmarTveli partia daabrunos?

_ am kiTxvaze SemiZlia, damajereblad

gipasuxoT: diax,

Cvens xalxs cvlileba safuZvlianad

surs da swor arCevans

akeTebs!

aq saubari erTi romelime

partiisadmi erTpirovnul

ndobaze araa, xalxma opoziciur

politikur subieqtTa er-

Tianoba sworad miiRo da sworad

dainaxa, rom qveyanaSi koaliciuri

marTvis damkvidreba

ualternativoa. es meti demokratiaa

da cxadia, amis alternativas

ver vxedav! es qveyana

erT oligarqs an romelime erT

partias ar ekuTvnis! es qveyana

yvelasia da yvelam unda miiRos

monawileoba rogorc problemebis

daZlevaSi, ise qveynis

aRmSeneblobaSi.

8-wliani marTvis pirobebSi,

Tuki amas SeiZleba marTva vuwodoT,

xalxma saxelmwifo instituciebis

mizanmimarTuli ganadgureba

da CamoSla naxa, amasTan,

okupanti qveynisadmi sakuTari

xelisuflebis ususuroba

da „dawolis” politika sakuTar

Tavze gamovcadeT da im-

`Cven Tvalwinve mogvikles giga oTxozoria,

mogvtaces da mere, Cveni Zmis - arCil

tatunaSvilis dasaxiCrebuli gvamis dabruneba

gvaxvewnines. mokled, xalxi brma ar aris!

xalxma naxa, rom oligarqia saSiSia da qveynis

momavals spobs!~

asac yoveldRiurad vxedavdiT,

rogor Zlierdeboda kriminaluri

samyaros gavlenebi,

korufcia da nepotizmi.

samwuxarod, „Cadebebic” gr-

Zeldeboda, politikuri wnexic

da zewolac, romelsac Cemi megobris,

baCana Sengelias dedis,

Rirseuli pedagogisa da qalbatonis

sicocxle Seewira. Cven

Tvalwinve mogvikles giga oTxozoria,

mogvtaces da mere, Cveni

Zmis _ arCil tatunaSvilis

dasaxiCrebuli gvamis dabruneba

gvaxvewnines.

mokled, xalxi brma ar aris!

xalxma naxa, rom oligarqia sa-

SiSia da qveynis momavals spobs!

ise, 2012 wels cvlilebebi

aSkara iyo, Tumca vai, rom amiT

rusulma Zalam isargebla da e.

w. qarTulma ocnebam Cems xalxs

patriotul Zalad SeasaRa Tavi.

saerTod, xelisuflebis mimarT

pretenziebze saubari

Sors wagviyvans, Tumca mainc

vityvi, zemoTqmulis garda,

„ocnebis” mimarT kidev ra pretenzia

maqvs: esaa instituciebis

mizanmimarTuli ngreva, ekonomikuri

da socialuri krizisi,

mosaxleobis daucveloba,

zewola Tavisufal, gansakuTrebiT

ki sakuTari azris mqone

sajaro mosamsaxureebze, isedac

krizisSi myofi sasamarTlos

sruli ganadgureba, zewola

da terori Tavisufal sityvasa

da mediaze, SantaJi politikosebsa

da Jurnalistebze

da rac mTavaria, qveynisa da Cemi

xalxis istoriuli sagareo

arCvanis ignorireba da bneli,

rusuli sivrcisken swrafva!

ar SemiZlia e. w. xelisuflebas

vapatio, rom mis ugunurebas,

ususurobasa da mavneblobas

Cemi bevri Tanamoqalaqe, igive

oTxozoria, tatunaSvili,

maCalikaSvili, Seewira!

me ar vapireb, Seveguo xelisuflebis

upasuxismgeblobas

1 700 000-ze meti qarTveli emigrantis

mimarT! aseve ar vpatiob

ivaniSvilis reJims evropul

da evroatlantikur sivrcesa

da qveynis mTavar strategiul

partniorTan mizanmimarTulad

gauaresebul kavSirs.

„ocnebas” amis ufleba ar hqonda,

Tumca evropeli da amerikeli

partniorebis zusti ganwyoba

maimedebs _ maT ician, rom

kavSirebis ngrevis mxares xelisufleba

dgas da ara _ Cveni

xalxi.

bevrjer vTqvi da axlac gavimeoreb:

erTaderTi teritoria,

romelic daculi da uzrunvelyofilia,

es oligarqis

piradi sivrce, misi flora da

faunaa! danarCeni saqarTvelo

ki mzrunvelobis miRmaa darCenili

da Cemi xalxi totalur

umuSevrobas, socialur usamarTlobasa

da kriziss ganicdis!

_ sxvaTa Soris, Senze sul

dadioda xma, rom faruli

„naci” iyavi. mas Semdeg, rac

„Zala erTobaSias” maJoritar-

obis kandidatis gverdiT gam-

oCndi, es xma ufro gamyarda.

irakli, marTla, „faruli

naci” xar?

_ Tqvengan am SekiTxvas ar

velodi!

_ ratom?

_ pativiscemiT gipasuxebT,

rom Cemi xedvebi, damokidebulebebi

da azrebi arasodes

damimalavs! me Tavisufali qveynis

Tavisufali Svili var da

saerTod gaugebaria, „faruli

naci” ras niSnavs? damaluli da

dafaruli araferi maqvs, maT

Soris, arc is, rom „nacionalur

moZraobas” ise vuyureb, rogorc

partniors ruseTTan br-

ZolaSi da Tu axla guriaSi Cemi

megobris, manuCar kvirkvelias

gverdiT var, es am partiasTan

Cems met kavSirs ar niSnavs!

sxvaTa Soris, manuCari „nacionaluri

moZraobis” kandidati

araa, anu is „nacionaluri

moZraobis” garda, gaerTianebuli

opoziciis _ „Zala erTobaSias”

kandidatia da am blok-

Si damoukidebel partia „progresi

da TavisuflebiT” aris

gaerTianebuli.

ise, Tu sakuTar Tavs „nacionalur

moZraobaSi” davinaxav,

merwmuneT, dasamali araferi

meqneba, amaze gancxadebas sajarod

gavakeTeb. manamde ki yvelas

movuwodeb, usafuZvlo eW-

20 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


politikuri wnexic da zewolac~

vebi da Worebi Sewyviton! me iq

var, sadac var, var Tamamad,

Riad da daufaravad.

_ keTili, magram premiero-

bis kandidatobaze pretenzia

marTla gqonda? anu fiqrob,

rom am qveynis marTva realu-

rad SegiZlia?

_ mimaCnia, rom qveynis mar-

TvaSi monawileoba da Cemi aguris

dadeba aqtiurad SemiZlia,

magram premir-ministrobaze ambicia

arsad gamicxadebia. ase

rom, esec Woria da gavaqarwyloT:

Tu amisTvis mzad viqnebi,

amazec gancxadebas sajarod

gavakeTeb. premieri is lideri

unda iyos, romelsac yvelaze

meti eleqtoraluri mxardaWera

aqvs. sxvaTa Soris, mimaCnia,

rom amaze fiqri naadrevia. axla

mTavari gamowveva qveynisTvis

saWiro cvlilebebi da am

politikur procesSi aqtiuri

monawileobaa. ai, premier-ministrisa

da sxva Tanamdebobebsac

qarTveli xalxi gankargavs, rogorc

ki uzurpirebul Zalauflebas

daibrunebs!

_ „nacionalebis” dros

araerTi cudi moxda. qonebeb-

is CamorTmevasa da adamianis

sxva uflebebis darRvevaze

rom aRaraferi vTqvaT, ager,

axla gaxda cnobili, rom, Turme,

daviTgarejis miwebi gaiyida.

irakli, Sen, rogorc iur-

ists, amaze ra azri gaqvs?

_ kargi da cudi yvela xelisuflebis

dros iyo da, cxadia,

gamonaklisi arc „nacionaluri

moZraobaa”. ubralod, am

Zalis mmarTvelobis dros qar-

Tulma saxelmwifom yvelaze meti

sargebeli miiRo da amis araRiareba

umaduroba iqneba. ise,

adamianisa da sakuTrebis uflebebis

xelyofaze uari arc

moqmed xelisuflebas uTqvams.

_ ras gulisxmob?

_ amis Sesaxeb iciT da mets

aRar ganvavrcob...

rac Seexeba daviTgarejis

miwebs, am sakiTxs gansxvavebulad

vxedav, vidre opoziciidan

an xelisuflebidan Cemi

kolegebi xedaven.

_ mainc, rogor xedav?

_ vidre daviTgarejaSi Seqmnil

ukidures mZime situacaze

visaubrebT, miniSnebas mogcemT.

_ raze?

_ yvelafris mizezi „qarTuli

ocnebis”, ruseTisa da iranis

xelisuflebebis naxevrad

farul kavSirebSi unda veZeboT.

_ anu?

_ mezobeli azerbaijani Tavs

verasodes gaimarTlebs, magram

axla is SemiZlia giTxraT, rom

es qveyana kedelTan miayenes da

31 oqtombridan aRniSnuli mwvave

sakiTxi samudamod daixureba.

daviTgareja Cveni saganZuria

da es TiToeulma azerbaijanelma

icis... mokled, „qarTuli

ocnebis” damarcxebas davelodoT

da es problemac, garwmunebT,

ramdenime TveSi amoiwureba.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

`bevrjer vTqvi da axlac gavimeoreb: erTaderTi

teritoria, romelic daculi da

uzrunvelyofilia, es oligarqis piradi sivrce,

misi flora da faunaa! danarCeni saqarTvelo

ki mzrunvelobis miRmaa darCenili da Cemi

xalxi totalur umuSevrobas, socialur

usamarTlobasa da kriziss ganicdis!~

_ ise, unda gauqmebuliyo

Tu ara samSoblos Ralatis

muxli?

_ imaze mZime da saSiSi, vidre

sakuTari qveynisa da eris Ralatia,

ra unda iyos?! samSoblos

Ralati saqarTvelos kanonmdeblobiT

dasjadia! ise, xSirad

xataven, rom saqarTveloSi kanonmdeblobaSi

problemebia,

rac zusti araa, anu kanonis aRsrulebis

meqanizmebSi problemebia

da umjobesia, yvela amis

winaaRmdeg vkoncentrirdeT.

_ irakli, vTqvaT, ise moxda,

rom „ocnebam” demokrati-

is yvela principi daarRvia da

xelisuflebaSi mesame vadiTac

darCa, aseT SemTxvevaSi ras

prognozireb?

mezobeli azerbaijani Tavs verasodes

gaimarTlebs, magram axla is SemiZlia

giTxraT, rom es qveyana kedelTan miayenes da

31 oqtombridan aRniSnuli mwvave sakiTxi

samudamod daixureba. daviTgareja Cveni

saganZuria da es TiToeulma azerbaijanelma

icis... mokled, `qarTuli ocnebis~ damarcxebas

davelodoT da es problemac, garwmunebT,

ramdenime TveSi amoiwureba.

_ saqarTveloSi qarTuli

demokratiis winaaRmdeg wasvla

bevrma scada, magram veravin Se-

Zlo da cxadia, verc „qarTuli

ocneba” SeZlebs. amJamindelma

xelisuflebam fexqveS gaTela

isedac koWladmyofi demokratia,

magram damajereblad

msurs giTxraT, rom 31 oqtombridan

es dasruldeba da Cvens

qveyanaSi demokratiis mSenebloba

da ganmtkiceba daiwyeba.

zedmeti filosofia saWiro

araa, me vici, ra surs Cems xalxs

_ es „qarTul ocnebasTan”

ganSorebaa da amis winaaRmdeg,

merwmuneT, veraviTari Zala ver

wava!

_ saerTod, iziareb Tu ara

mosazrebas, rom mZime epidemi-

ologiuri viTarebis gamo

arCevnebi unda gadaidos?

_ Cemi mizani da interesi

Cemi xalxis usafrTxoebaa, Tumca

ukve gviania amaze saubari.

_ ratom?

_ 2 kviraSi arCevnebi unda

Catardes. ise, vwuxvar, rom am

seniT gveTamaSebian da cdiloben,

pandemia sakuTari viwro

partiuli miznebisTvis gamoiyenon.

_ aseTi eWvi bevrs aqvs, anu

irakli, Senc geCveneba, rom

pandemias xelisufleba poli-

tikuri miznebisTvis iyenebs?

_ ki ar meCveneba, darwmunebuli

var! sxvaTa Soris, am situacias

xalxi ukve RimiliT uyurebs.

cota xnis win samma moqalaqem

erT-erT samedicino dawesebulebas

testirebis Catarebis

mizniT mimarTa, gaiares

registracia, Tumca didi rigi

iyo da testirebas ver daelodnen.

saRamos erT-erT moqalaqes

klinikidan daukavSirdnen

da acnobes, rom kovid-19-is matarebelia.

axla daskvnebi Tavad

gamoitaneT, _ kacma, romelmac

Seavso sabuTebi da ar Cautarebia

testireba, Setyobineba

miiRo, rom infeqciis matarebelia.

mokled, verc pandemiis

gamoyeneba da verc sxva resursi

ver gadawonis qarTveli

xalxis protests am xelisuflebis

mimarT. amitom oligarqs

vurCev, xalxs danebdes da is

daabrunos, rac xalxis saku-

Trebaa.

_ gasagebia, rom „ocneba”

cudia, magram opozicias xeli-

suflebis Secvlis muxti aqvs?

_ opozicia da xalxi axla

erT mxares dgas, calke aRebuli

opozicia ar aris xelisuflebis

cvlilebis mxares, es

aris qarTveli xalxis dakveTa

da Cveni mizani xalxis dakveTis

aRsrulebaa! opozicia yvelafers

gavakeTebT, rom qaTvelma

xalxma „qarTuli ocnebis” mier

mitacebuli Zalaufleba daibrunos

da garwmunebT, amis muxtic

gvaqvs, Zalac da sakmarisi

resursic.

_ Seni azriT, am arCevnebze

aris Tu ara mixeil saakaSvi-

lis aqtiuroba gadamwyveti?

_ mixeil saakaSvili, garda

imisa, rom Cveni qveynis mesame

prezidentis statuss atarebs

yvelaze didi eleqtoraluri

mxardaWeris mqone politikuri

partiis wamyvani lideria, cxadia,

mis monawileobas mniSvnelovani

roli aqvs. metic, am adamians

personalurad endoba da

mxars uWers asobiT aTasi moqalaqe

da ar meguleba saqarTveloSi

politikosi, visac am

gulmxurvale momxreebis meaTedi

raodenobis xalxis mxarda-

Wera hqondes. erTaderTi, visac

saakaSvilis aqtiuroba aSinebs,

es ruseTi da ruseTTan mavneblur

kolaboraciaSi myofi

politikosebi arian! samwuxarod,

vxedavT, rom maT opozicia-

Si aqa-iq gavlena aqvT, magram

esec gadaivlis.

_ ise, ivaniSvilTan saTqme-

li ra gaqvs?

_ naxvamdis!

_ weRan unda mekiTxa da dam-

aviwyda: uaxloes momavalSi

romelime axal partiaSi xom ar

gixilavT?

_ axla amaze ar vfiqrob...

ise, SemoTavazeba yvela wamyvani

politikuri partiidan, maT Soris,

proporciul siaSi adgilzec

mqonda, magram, garkveuli

gadawyvetilebebis gamo, TavSekaveba

varCie. minda, yvelam icodes,

rom CemTvis mTavari mizani

qveynis ganTavisufleba da

uzurpirebuli Zalauflebis

xalxisTvis dabrunebaa.

saerTod, mimaCnia, rom partia

da partiuli Tanamdeboba

aucilebeli araa saimisod, rom

xalxisa da qveynis samsaxurSi

iyo! mokled, 31 oqtombers, Cven

mxolod arCevnebi ki ara, bevrad

Sinaarsiani da erovnuli

RonisZieba unda CavataroT!

diax, yvelani erTad, umniSvnelovanes

referendums CavatarebT,

sadac sabolood davadgenT,

ra surs saqarTvelos

namdvil mepatrones, qarTvel

xalxs _ ngreva Tu Seneba!

31 oqtombers Cven gvaqvs Sansi,

sakadrisi pasuxi gavceT gadamgdeb

dajgufebas da mTel

msoflios davanaxvoT, rom saqarTveloSi

mSvidobisa da keTildReobis

dauZinebeli mteri _

okupanti da misdami morCilebaSi

myofi kolaboraciuli warmonaqmnebi

fexs verasdros

moikideben!

31 oqtombers Sedgeba Rirsebis

morigi sayovelTao aqti!

win didi gamarjveba gvelis,

win momavali da imedia!

21

ras fiqrobs aWaraSi xalxi

yofil da moqmed xelisufle-

bebze? aqvs Tu ara baTumSi

opozicias gamarjvebis Sansi?

ra religuri jgufebi xsnian

regionSi saswavleblebs? ra

safrTxeebis winaSe SeiZleba

aRmoCndes qveyana? _ amis

Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s merab

bladaZe esaubreba:

_ batono merab, aWaraSi ko-

ronavirusis gamo Zalian mZime

mdgomareobaa. am fonze 16 oqtombers

gaerTianebulma op-

oziciam baTumSi xalxmravali

aqcia moawyo. ase bevri momxre

hyavs yofil xelisuflebas,

rom pandemiis drosac ki amde-

ni xalxis gamoyvana SeuZlia?

_ arCevnebis win veridebi

xolme partiebis moqmedebebisa

da programebis kritikas.

wels sul ar gavakritikeb vinmes,

radganac Tavad ar vapireb

arCevnebSi monawileobas. amas-

Tan vityvi, rom nebismieri politikuri

aqcia aris farsi.

_ farsi ratom aris?

_ Cven xom yvelam kargad

viciT, Tu rogor kreben partiebis

mxardamWerebs. xalxs

pirdapir uxdian fuls. ase

xdeba „qarTuli ocnebis”, „patriotTa

aliansis”, „nacionaluri

moZraobisa” Tu sxvaTa

aqciebze. imis Cveneba, rom me

amdeni mxardamWeri myavs,

arafers niSnavs. imas ar vityvi,

rom aWaraSi „nacionalebs” mxardamWerebi

ar hyavT, xalxis

nawili maT miscems xmas, magram

aqciaze xalxis gamoyvana arafers

niSnavs, radgan iq yvelas

fuls aZleven. rogorc giTxariT,

ase iqceva yvela partia.

amis Sesaxeb mosaxleobac informirebulia

da zogierTma

mSvenieri biznesi gaikeTa. sadac

ar unda mixvide da mosaxleobas

uTxra, aqcias vatareb

da wamodio, yvela jibeze

giyurebs, ise miaCvies amaTma

fulis gadaxdas.

aWaraSi „nacionalur moZraobas”

uamravi momxre hyavs.

bevri momxre hyavs „qarTul

ocnebas”, momxreebs arc „patriotTa

aliansi” uCivis, magram

aqciaze ideiT aravin aRar

gamodis. yvela fulis gadaxdis

Semdeg midis.

_ ambobT, rom „nacionalur

moZraobas” aWaraSi uamravi

momxre hyavs. Tqveni azriT,

ratom uWers xalxi mxars yo-

22


àWaraSi `nacionalur moZraobas~

16 oqtombers gaerTianebulma

Sorena marsagiSvili

opoziciam baTumSi xalxmravali

599 92 16 22

aqcia moawyo. „qarTuli ocneba”

aqamde opoziciis yvela aqciaze

ambobda, rom cota xalxi iyo, axla ki erTxmad Seicxada, _ es

ramdeni kaci gamoiyvaneso. maT gonebis gaxsnaSi kovid-19 daexmara.

avadsaxsenebel koronas xalxmravali Tavyrilobebi uyvars,

amitomac SeimCnia „ocnebam” amdeni xalxi da axla „nacionalebs”

amunaTebs _ es rogor gaakeTeTo?! Tavad opozicia

Tavs damnaSaved ar miiCnevs. xalxmravali aqciidan gamom-

dinare ki amtkicebs, rom aWaris regionSi arCevnebi mogebuli

aqvT. aWaris umaRlesi sabWos deputati merab bladaZe ve-

rafer gansakuTrebuls ver xedavs imaSi, rom poziciis aqciaze

amdeni xalxi mivida. is „qronika+~-Tan acxadebs, rom mosax-

leobis nawilma aqciebze siaruli biznesad aqcia.

599 92 16 22 merab bladaZe:

fil xelisuflebas?

_ Cemi samegobrodanac bevria

„nacionaluri moZraobis”

mxardamWeri. am partiis momxreebi

Cemi bavSvobis megobrebic

arian. roca vekiTxebi, Tu

ratom uWeren yofil xelisuflebas

mxars, maTgan fanatikur

pasuxs viReb: „qarTul

ocnebas” araferi gaukeTebia,

miSam ki amdeni gaakeTa! marTla

ver vxsni, ratom uWeren „nacionalebs”

mxars. amas ufro

filosofiuri axsna sWirdeba.

_ politikuri axsna ar

aqvs?

_ politikuri axsna CemTvis

ar aqvs. „nacionalebis” momxreebi

amboben, rom miSam ba-

Tumi aaSena da amitom arian

misi mxardamWerebi. baTumi mi-

Sas ar auSenebia. es qalaqi miT

umetes ar auSenebia levan

varSalomiZes. es iyo amerikis

proeqti. vaSingtonidan wamovida

Zalian didi fuli da am

fuliT gakeTda baTumi.

_ visi fuliT gakeTda, es

sxva ambavia, faqtia, rom ba-

Tumi Zalian gaalamazes.

_ baTumi gaakeTes da gaalamazes,

magram am qalaqisTvis

gamoyofili Tanxebis 1/4 jibe-

Si Caides da dRemde am fuliT

arseboben da gaaqvT Tavi. igive

SemiZlia vTqva patrulzec.

jer vano merabiSvili amtkicebda,

me Sevqmeni patrulio,

axla es irakli oqruaSvilmac

daibrala.

_ patrulis Seqmnas saku-

Tar damsaxurebad miiCnevs

levan izoriac.

_ egec ibralebda, magram ar

mjera, rom magaT gaakeTes. eseni

patrulis Semqmnelebi rom

yofiliyvnen, msgavss proeqts

ukrainaSic xom ganaxorcielebdnen.

reformatorebis jgufi

xom iyo Casuli ukrainaSi,

magram maT ver gaamarTles.

patruli iyo amerikelebis

mier brwyinvaled dawerili

proeqti. „nacionalebma” es,

ubralod, Seasrules.

_ da Zalian kargadac

gamouvidaT.

_ sapatrulo policia rom

Seiqmna, es Zalian kargi iyo.

Zalian kargi iyo isic, rom ba-

Tumi gaalamazes.

_ „qarTul ocnebas” ba-

TumisTvis araferi gaukeTe-

bia? maT drosac xom bevri

rame aSenda?

_ vin ambobs, rom ar gakeTda?

amaT drosac aSenda raRacebi.

mTavari, rac am partiam gaakeTa,

isaa, rom cixeebSi iseTi

Zaladoba aRar aris, rogorc

„nacionalebis” dros iyo. arc

quCaSi apatimreben adamianebs

tyuilubralod. baTums rac

Seexeba, yvela xelisufali, romelic

aWaraSi modioda, cdilobda

fuli ekeTebina. bolo

periodSi saSineli Senobebi

aSenda. korpusebi erTmaneTzea

midgmuli. bevri usaxuri Senoba

aaSenes, samagierod, Tavisufleba

mogvces.

_ me ver vityodi, rom

„qarTulma ocnebam” mogvca

Tavisufleba. vinc Tavisufa-

li iyo, is „nacionalebis”

drosac Tavisuflad axerxeb-

da protestis gamoxatvas.

_ Tavisufleba aris mowodeba.

roca Tavisufali xar, veravin

SegiSlis xels sakuTari

àr ginda

`nacionaluri~

moZraobis dabruneba?

adeqi da sxva partias

dauWire mxari, raRa

òcnebas~ emxrobi?~

azris gamoxatvaSi. „qarTulma

ocnebam” yvelas misca amis SesaZlebloba.

„nacionalebis”

dros yvela ver bedavda saku-

Tari azris Riad dafiqsirebas.

_ ambobT, rom „nacionaleb-

Tan” SedarebiT „ocnebam” Tav-

isufleba mogvitanao da imaze

ra azris xarT, rom mmarTvel

partiaSi umetesoba swored

„nacionalebi” arian?

_ es saSinelebaa. „qarTuli

ocneba” dRes am meTodiT muSaobs,

rom maT garda asarCevi

aravin gvyavs. maT Tu ar avir-

CevT, SeiZleba isev „nacionalebi”

movidnen. „ocneba” am me-

Tods rom iyenebs, es maT interesebSia,

magram ar mesmis,

ratom ahyva xalxi maT TamaSs?

ar ginda „nacionaluri” moZraobis

dabruneba? adeqi da sxva

partias dauWire mxari, raRa

„qarTul ocnebas” aZlev xmas?

saqarTveloSi uamravi partiaa.

`baTumi gaakeTes da gaalamazes, magram am

qalaqisTvis gamoyofili Tanxebis 1/4 jibeSi

Caides da dRemde am fuliT arseboben da gaaqvT

Tavi. igive SemiZlia vTqva patrulzec. jer vano

merabiSvili amtkicebda, me Sevqmeni patrulio,

axla es irakli oqruaSvilmac daibrala~

_ imdeni xania, or partias

Soris gviwevs arCevanis gakeTeba,

rom es ukve Cvevad gveq-

ca.

_ geTanxmebiT. am mxriv cota

gaurkveveli xalxi varT. etyoba,

politikuri ganaTlebac

gvaklia. ar viciT, arCevani

rogor gavakeToT. imis SiSiT,

rom „naci” ar dabrundes, xmas

vaZlevT „qocs”. seriozul

problemad iqca amomrCevlis

mosyidva. amas xalxic mieCvia

da sxvanairad veRar warmoudgenia.

amas winaT CemTan ori

kaci iyo mosuli. egonaT, rom

arCevnebSi vmonawileobdi. pirdapir

SemomTavazes, Tu Tanxas

gadaixdi, Cems sofelSi amden

da amden xmas mogigrovebo.

es erTgvar biznesad gadaiqca.

arian aferistebi, romlebic

pirdapir yidian xmebs.

_ e. i. partiebi ki ar yiduloben

xmebs, amomrCeveli sTa-

vazobs maT, rom xmebi iyidon?

_ asea, asea! aris adamianTa

jgufebi, romlebic xmebiT

vaWroben. erTgvari Semosavlis

wyaroa es maTTvis. saqme rom

aqamde mivida, am xelisuflebis

bralia.

_ am xelisuflebis brali

ratom aris?

_ imitom, rom ase gaamaTxovres

xalxi.

_ wels am mxriv uaresi

mdgomareoba iqneba. pandemiam

biznesi mokla da xalxi uluk-

mapurod darCa.

_ axla rom aseTi viTarebaa,

amaSi „qarTul ocnebas” ver davadanaSaulebT.

mTel msoflioSi

aseTi viTarebaa. am koronas

ver Svelis veravin. bankebi

ki Zalian cudad iqcevian. 2008

wels omi rom daiwyo, qobule-

Ti erT dReSi daicala. xalxi

Semosavlis gareSe darCa, radgan

turistebi gaiqcnen. qobuleTelebs

mxolod kreditebi

darCaT. bankebma es kreditebi

ar apaties da procentis procenti

mosTxoves. bevrs saxlkaris

gayidva mouwia.

axlac Zalian cudad iqcevian

bankebi. pandemiis gamo aWaraSi

welsac Cavarda turistuli

sezoni. ki Camovidnen viRa-

22 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


uamravi momxre hyavs~

`nacionalebis~ momxreebi amboben, rom miSam baTumi aaSena da amitom arian

misi mxardamWerebi. baTumi miSas ar auSenebia. es qalaqi miT umetes ar

auSenebia levan varSalomiZes. es iyo amerikis proeqti. vaSingtonidan

wamovida Zalian didi fuli da am fuliT gakeTda baTumi~

cebi, magram amiT sastumroebma

mxolod Suqis fuli Tu gadaixades.

axla bankebi maT kreditebis

dabrunebas sTxoven.

amis gamo wlebis winaT „nacionalur

moZraobas” pretenziebs

vuyenebdiT, „qarTuli

ocnebis” wevrebic xSirad ambobdnen

imas, Tu rogor ar

Camoaweres xalxs procentebi.

axla am pandemiis dros, roca

yvelas gauWirda, Tavadac

igives akeTeben. am xalxma ra

gaakeTos? sad naxos fuli, rom

kreditebi gadaixados? aqedanac

kargad Cans, rom yvela

mTavroba erTnairia.

_ bankebi ase Tavxedurad ar

moiqceodnen, maT mTavrobis

zurgi rom ar hqondeT.

_ ra Tqma unda, maTi zurgiT

moqmedeben. Zalian di pativs

vcemdi isko dasens. es kaci parlamentis

wevria. axlaxan gavige,

rom mikrosafinanso organizacia

hqonia da fuls aprocentebs.

Tea wulukiani, jer

kidev, 2013 wels Segvpirda,

rom mevaxSeobis Sesaxeb kanons

miiRebda. mas Semdeg Svidi weli

gavida da es kanoni ar Cans.

_ msgavsi kanonis miRebas

axla mamuka xazaraZe gvpirde-

ba. misi azriT, mevaxSeoba

kanoniT unda aikrZalos.

_ amis Sesaxeb man sajarod

gaakeTa gancxadeba, magram ar

mjera. rogorc ukve giTxariT,

msgavsi kanonis miRebas wulukiani

7 wlis winaT dagvpirda.

xazaraZe xom Seva parlamentSi,

vnaxoT daayenebs Tu ara

mevaxSeobis kanonis miRebaze

sakiTxs. mTavaria, ras gaakeTeben

xelisuflebaSi mosvlis

SemTxvevaSi. arCevnebis win yvela

partia saocrebebs gvpirdeba.

yvela partia ekonomikuri

aRmavlobis pirobas gvaZlevs.

_ am danapirebs asruleben,

_ xelisuflebaSi mosvlis Semdeg

maTi ekonomikuri mdgomareoba

mniSvnelovnad um-

jobesdeba.

_ esec dasturia imisa, rom

yvela mTavroba erTnairia.

_ wels saparlamento arC-

evnebis paralelurad aWaraSi

umaRlesi sabWos arCevnebic

Catardeba. am mimarTulebiTac

igive xdeba?

_ ra Tqma unda, umaRlesi

sabWos arCevnebic igivenairad

Catardeba, rogorc _ saparlamento.

rac aWaris umaRlesi

sabWo arsebobs, yvelaze efeqtiani

jer isev moqmedi umaRlesi

sabWo iyo. vnaxoT, rogori

iqneba momavali umaRlesi

sabWo.

_ umaRlesi sabWos efeq-

tianoba raSi gamoixateboda,

ufro xmaurianebi iyaviT?

_ ara, xmauri efeqtianobas

ar niSnavs. bevri sakiTxis ganxilva

movaxerxeT. me piradad

kmayofili var umaRles sabWo-

Si Cemi muSaobiT. sxvebi ras

fiqroben, ar vici.

_ zemoT miTxariT, rom

arCevnebSi monawileobis miRe-

bas aRar vapirebo da ratom

miiReT aseTi gadawyvetileba?

_ aWaris umaRles sabWoSi

„patriotTa aliansidan” Sevedi.

piradi uTanxmoeba momivida

da partiidan wamovedi.

roca partiis xelmZRvanelTan

konfliqti gaqvs, Sen unda waxvide,

aba, partiis xelmZRvaneli

xom ar wava? „patriotTa

aliansidan” rom wamovedi, „nacionalebis”

garda TiTqmis

yvela partiam SemomTavaza,

rom maTTan gadavsuliyavi. amas

veranairad gavakeTebdi. ar SemiZlia

im partiaSi Sesvla, romlis

programac CemTvis miuRebelia.

romeliRac partiaSi

imis gamo namdvilad ver Seval,

rom Semdeg parlamentSi an

umaRles sabWoSi movxvde. me

ase ver vicxovreb, amitom umjobesia,

axla gavCerde.

_ partiebis programebi axseneT

da „patriotTa alian-

sis” programas iziarebdiT?

_ aliansis programas bolo

dros cudi ganvrcoba mieca,

`Zalian di pativs vcemdi isko dasens. es kaci

parlamentis wevria. axlaxan gavige, rom

mikrosafinanso organizacia hqonia da fuls

aprocentebs. Tea wulukiani, jer kidev, 2013

wels Segvpirda, rom mevaxSeobis Sesaxeb

kanons miiRebda. mas Semdeg Svidi weli gavida

da es kanoni ar Cans~

Torem Tavidan Zalian normaluri

iyo. am organizacias

misaRebi pozicia hqonda natosTan

dakavSirebiTac ki.

_ natosTan dakavSirebiT

„patriotebs”

normaluri

damokidebuleba hqondaT?

_ ase iyo. programaSi eweraT,

natoSi ki gvinda, magram ar

gvRebulobeno. daxurul Sexvedrebze

ras ambobdnen, ar vici,

magram Riad ase acxadebdnen.

msgavsi pozicia CemTvs misaRebi

iyo. nato ki, Tavis mxriv,

sul gaiZaxoda, aucileblad

migiRebTo.

_ axla amasac aRar gveub-

nebian.

_ axla amaze saubari SeaCeres,

Torem manamde yovel Tve

gveubnebodnen, ai, axla ukve

gaiRo TqvenTvis kario, magram

SigniT aravin gviSvebda. „patriotTa

aliansi” kiTxvas svamda,

_ sadac ar gvRebuloben, iq

ramdeni xani unda akakuno

karzeo?

_ natosTan maTi damokidebuleba

normalurad migaCni-

aT. sainteresoa, ras fiqrobT

aWarasTan dakavSirebiT gakeTebul

gancxadebebze? par-

tiis liderebs araerTxel

uTqvamT, rom aWara Turqebs

miaqvT.

_ adre arc amaze saubrobdnen.

aWaris Temaze bolo dros

daiwyes yuradRebis gamaxvileba,

rom es kuTxe Turqebs miaqvT.

aRsaniSnavia isic, rom

amaze gancxadebebs partiis Tavmjdomare

ar akeTebs. daviT

Tarxan-mouravs amis Sesaxeb

araferi ganucxadebia. partiis

SigniT mokalaTebulebi amaxvilebdnen

amaze yuradRebas,

egonaT, patriotobdnen da am

dros sisuleleebs ambobdnen.

„patriotTa aliansma” ba-

TumSi ramdenime aqcia gamarTa.

am aqciaze adgilobrivebic

gamovdiodiT sityviT. vcdilobdiT,

mozomili gancxadebebi

gagvekeTebina. am dros viRacebi

gamoxtebodnen da iwyebdnen

islamis Zagebas. kiTxulobdnen

sulelur leqciebs

da xalxi Wkiudan gadahyavdaT.

mivdiodiT am gamomsvlelebTan

da veubnebodiT, reebs

laparakobT, Cven islams saer-

Tod ar vebrZviT. Cven mxolod

is gvinda, rom TurqeTma regionze

zedmeti gavlenebi ar

moipovos-meTqi.

_ moipova TurqeTma aWaris

regionze zedmeti gavlenebi?

_ rogor giTxraT. erT istorias

mogiyvebiT da Tavad

gansajeT: ramdenime wlis winaT

CvenTan gaixsna Turquli skola.

skolis gaxsnis sazeimo ceremonialze

dasaswrebad TurqeTis

ganaTlebis ministri Camovida.

es ise gakeTda, rom amis

Sesaxeb saqarTvelos xelisufleba

informirebuli iyo. ise

Caatares skolis gaxsnis sazeimo

ceremonia, rom masze saqarTvelos


ar miuwveviaT.

arc amaT icodnen rame, rom

misuliyvnen.

_ ucxo qveyana Sens teritoriaze

skolis gaxsnis saze-

imo ceremonials rom awyobs,

es rogor ar unda icode?

_ faqtia, rom ar icodnen.

arc Turqulma mxarem Tqva

rame amis Sesaxeb. es qarTuli

saxelmwifos abuCad agdebaa.

_ cota daujerebelia, rom

saqarTvelos xelisuflebam

amis Sesaxeb araferi icoda.

susi ras akeTebda?

_ amis Sesaxeb SevekiTxoT

suss.

_ Turquli skola axseneT

da am mxriv Tqvens regionSi

sakmaod mZime viTarebaa. islams

aravin erCis, magram adg-

ilobrivebi Zalian wuxan, rom

TurqeTi amden skolas xsnis

aWaraSi.

_ aWaraSi islams aravin er-

Cis. aq xalxi tradiciuli islamis

mimdevaria. am rwmeniT

gaizardnen Cveni bebiebi da babuebi.

axla ra aris? Semodian

raRac seqtanturi dajgufebebi

da isini xsnian skolebs.

_ ra seqtantur dajgufebe-

bze saubrobT?

_ zogs suleiman jemi hqvia,

zogs mahmud jemi da a. S. vis

sWirdeba es seqtebi? am seqtebs

raRac jgufebi afinanseben

da maTi saqmianoba Zalian

saSiSia. es seqtebi axlos aris

vahabizmTan. aWaraSi ukve arian

vahabizmis mimdevrebi.

_ es seriozuli Saria, vahabizmi

bevr muslimur qveya-

naSi miuRebelia.

_ amas namdvilad unda gamovucxadoT

brZola. saWiroa

kontroli, magram es Zalian

rTulia.

_ rTuli ratom aris?

_ ganaTlebis saministros

ar aqvs imis ufleba, rom Seamowmos,

Tu ras aswavlian am seqtebis

mier gaxsnil skolebSi

bavSvebs. msoflios arc erT

qveyanaSi aseTi Tavisufleba

ar aris. Cven amiT ras vamtkicebT,

rom evropaze metad demokratiulebi

varT? igive briuselSi

uamravi meCeTi da islamuri

saswavlebelia, magram

amas Tavad belgiis xelisufleba

afinansebs. adgilobrivma

xelisuflebam Zalian kargad

icis, Tu ras aswavlian

religiur skolebSi.

belgia demokratiuli qveyanaa,

magram rac saSiSia, yvelaferi

akrZalulia. vahabizmi

saSiSi mimdinareobaa da is aikrZala.

iqac arian vahabizmis mimdevrebi,

magram Cumad moqmedeben.

CvenTan isini skolebs

xsnian. saqarTvelos xelisufleba

imasac ki ar akeTebs, rom

gaigos, ras aswavlin vahabitebis

mier gaxsnil skolebSi.

Cven seqtebis muSaoba gvawuxebs,

Torem arc medreseebis

gaxsnas vaprotestebT da arc

_ meCeTebis. tradiciuli religia

saSiSi araa. yvela tradiciuli

religia moyvasis siyvarulsa

da patiosnebas qadagebs.

gaurkvevel seqtebs seriozuli

yuradReba unda mieqces.

_ vahabizmis mimdevrebi

aWaraSi mravlad arian?

_ ramdeni arian, ver getyviT,

magram arian. Zalian safr-

Txiloa es sakiTxi da xelisuflebam

amas yuradReba unda miaqcios.

Cven imazedac ki ar gvaqvs

warmodgena, ra ideologiiT

zrdian am skolebSi bavSvebs.

23

„qarTuli ocnebis” mier saarC-

Sorena marsagiSvili

evnod dadgmul speqtakls daviT-

599 92 16 22

garejis Temaze sapirispiro Sede-

gi mohyva. sazogadoebam ar daij-

era xelisuflebis zRapari. xalxis uaryofiTi ganwyobis mi-

uxedavad, mmarTveli partia isev apelirebs sakiTxze da STag-

vagonebs, TiTqos daviTgareja dagvibruna. am Temaze erT-erTma

pirvelma gigla baramiZem daiwyo saubari. „erTiani saqarTvelo

_ demokratiuli moZraobis” generaluri mdivani „qroni-

ka+~-sTan ambobs, rom wlebis manZilze garejis Temaze gakeTe-

buli yvela gancxadeba „qarTulma ocnebam” uyuradRebod datova.

arada, baramiZec da sxvebic acxadebdnen, rom male gare-

jaSi qarTvel momlocvelebs aRar SeuSvebdnen.

ratom gaxda garejis Tema aq-

tualuri? ainteresebs Tu ara

sazRvrebis dadgena saqarTve-

los xelisuflebas? sad unda

veZeboT saTanado dokumentebi?

ra daaanonsa „qarTulma ocne-

bam” arCevnebamde cota xniT ad-

re? _ amis Sesaxeb gigla barami

ami-

Ze „qronika+”-s esaubreba:

_ gigla, Tqven erT-erTi

pirve

veli iyaviT, vinc daviTgarejaSi

Seqmnil problemebze dai-

wyo saubari. jer kidev 4 wlis

winaT mianiSnebdiT mosalodnel

garTulebebze, magram „qarTul

ocnebas” arc maSin da arc gasul

wels, roca es Tema uki-

duresad gamwvavda, gareja ar

gaxsenebiaT. axla ram gadariaT?

_ sanam uSualod daviTgarejis

Temaze daviwyebde saubars,

iveri melaSvilisa da natalia

iliCovas dakavebas minda gamovexmauro.

isini ukanonod arian

dakavebulebi. „qarTuli ocneba”

cdilobs, rom viRacas raRac

gadaabralos.

oTxi welia, rac presiT Tu

televiziiT gaviZaxi, rom sademilitacio-sademarkacio

komisia

ar muSaobs. es komisia sagareo

uwyebas eqvemdebareba. vambobdi

imasac, rom mTel rig mimarTulebebzea

problemebi. samwuxarod,

gareja erTaderTi satkivari araa.

kidev bevr monakveTze gvaqvs

sazRvari daudgeneli. saqarTvelos

xelisufleba ar iyenebs im

rukebs, romelic unda daimowmos.

vambobdi da axlac gavimeoreb:

sademilitacio-sademarkacio

komisiis muSaoba gamWvirvale

unda iyos. yvela unda Cagvayenon

saqmis kursSi. sazRvrebis dadgena

sakuTari baRCa-baRebis SemoRobva

ar aris. es saqarTvelos

saxelmwifo sazRvaria da yvelam

unda icodes, Tu sad gadis Ti-

Toeuli santimetri. sazRvrebis

dadgenaSi mTeli saqarTvelos

potenciali unda CaerTos. samwuxarod,

sagareo saqmeTa saministrom

uari Tqva gamWvirvaled

muSaobaze da es sakiTxi Cqmales

da males.

gasaZlierebelia sademilitacio-sademarkacio

komisiis Semadgenloba.

ratom unda iyos es

komisia mxolod CinovnikebiT

dakompleqtebuli? ori mecnieri

zrdilobis gamo Seiyvanes komisiaSi.

es maSin, roca am saqmis

uamravi specialisti gvyavs. am

sakiTxebTan arc me var Sors.

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebs

araerTxel SevuTvale, rom maT-

24


`qarTulma ocnebam~ arCevnebis

599 92 16 22

gigla baramiZe:

Tvis saintereso informaciis

miwodeba SemeZlo, magram Tavi

Sors daiWires. gatrunulebi

arian da xmas ar iReben.

_ radgan am sakiTxebSi kar-

gad erkveviT, im rukaze ras

ityviT, vinme daviT xidaSelma

moskovidan rom Camoitana?

_ masala ar aris cudi, magram

gacilebiT mniSvnelovani dokumentebis

moZebna SeeZlo qarTul

mxares. lomonosovis saxelobis

universitetis damfuZnebel ekaterine

meoresTan erTad iyo

qarTveli ufliswuli. im arqivebSi

saintereso masalebia daculi,

romlebic saqarTvelos sazRvrebs

exeba. CvenTvis saintereso

masalebi inaxeba vladimiris

monasterSi. mosaZebnia masalebi

samaryandisa da buxaris

arqivebSi. vici, rom iq CvenTvis

mniSvnelovani dokumentebi inaxeba.

saintereso masalebi Segvi-

Zlia moviZioT parizisa da londonis

arqivebsa Tu kerZo koleqciebSi.

CemTvis gaugebaria, Tu ratom

ar iyenebs Cveni xelisufleba

msoflios kartografTa asociaciis

specialistebs?! es asociacia

parizSi 1961 wels Camoyalibda.

rogorc gaeroa mZlavri,

aRniSuli organizaciac aseTive

Zlieria. am asociaciaSi 84 qveyanaa

gawevrianebuli. gainZres

„qarTuli ocneba” da iqidanac

Camoiyvanos specialistebi.

am absoluturad uvic xelisuflebas

Sevaxseneb, rom 1919-

1920 wlebSi azerbaijan-somxeTis

omi midioda imave sakiTxebze,

razedac axla ganaxlda konfliqti

mTian yarabaRSi. erTi

saukunis winaT lamis amoxoces

somxebma da azerbaijanelebma

erTmaneTi. roca maTi gaSveleba

veravin SeZlo, baqomac da erevanmac

TbilisSi gamoagzavnes

delegaciebi. isini damfuZnebel

krebasTan mividnen da sTxovdnen,

iqneb, gagvaSveloTo.

am dros damfuZnebeli kreba

ra sakiTxs ganixilavda? _ qarTuli

kartografiis sakiTxebs!

muSaobdnen saxelmwifo sazRvrebis

dadgena-dakonkretebaze.

damfuZnebelma krebam droebiT

Sewyvita sazRvrebis dadgenaze

muSaoba da konfliqtis mogvarebaSi

CaerTo. arqivebSi Zalian

bevri masalaa daculi. amas moZieba

unda. sazRvrebTan dakavSirebiT

bevri mniSvnelovani informacia

inaxeba pavle ingoroyvas

pirad arqivSi. bevr saintereso

rames vnaxavT eqvTime TayaiSvilis

arqivSi. ar moiZies es sabuTebi

da amitomac varT aseT dRe-

Si!

_ magaT eqvTime TayaiSvilad

biZina hyavT gamocxadebuli da

imas, kidev, aseTi dokumentebi

ar gaaCnia. amitom hgoniaT, rom

msgavsi araferi arsebobs.

_ ase rom hgoniaT, magitomac

varT aseT dReSi. 4 welia veubnebi,

rom aq da aq SeiZleba sabu-

Tebis moZieba. iq, sadac mecnierebs

apatimreben, wignebsac dawvaven

da mere adamianebis dawvazec

gadavlen.

_ Tqvengan „ocneba” rCeva-

darigebas ar moismens. maTTvis

Tqveni partia miuRebelia.

_ namdvilad miuRebelia maT-

Tvis Cveni partia, magram droebiT

gverdze gadaedoT politika

da rogorc mecnierisTvis, ise

ekiTxaT. araferi moiZies da

iliCovasa da melaSvilze gadatexes

joxi. TiTqos am ori adamianis

gadasawyveti yofila, Tu

sad gaivlida saqarTvelos saxelmwifo

sazRvrebi.

_ isic unda gaviTvaliswinoT,

rom am adamianebs arafer-

ze mouweriaT xeli.

_ amaT ra ufleba hqondaT,

rameze moeweraT xeli? aseT sak-

ìq, sadac mecnierebs

apatimreben,

wignebsac dawvaven~

iTxebs parlamenti wyvets da

prezidenti awers xels.

_ prezidenti vaxseneT da

garejis mimarTulebiT mas Sem-

deg daiZaba situacia, rac iq

salome zurabiSvili avida da

provokaciuli

gancxadebebi

gaakeTa. mas ratom aravin sTx-

ovs pasuxs?

_ samxedro formaSi gamowyobili

zurabiSvili uSnod dakuntruSobda

garejaSi. rasac ki

gaekara, yvelaferi gaafuWa.

sainteresoa, am ambavs ratom ar

ixseneben? an zezeulad mkvdar

sagareo saqmeTa ministrs ratom

aravin usvams kiTxvebs? demilitacia

da demarkacia magas exeba.

_ exeba, magram azrze araa.

azerbaijanma garejis mima-

rTulebiT gzis gayvana rom

daiwyo da traqtorebiT gadauara

Ceens teritorias, zalka-

lianma amis Sesaxeb mediidan

gaigo. arada, sami dRe midioda

gzis mSenebloba.

_ magas ar vCivi, rom araferi

ician. es is zalkaliani araa,

erT-erT partias rom warmoadgenda?

am partiis lideri ministrobidan

rom gadadga, sagareo

saqmeTa ministris moadgile iyo.

viTom solidaroba gamoucxada

`samxedro formaSi gamowyobili zurabiSvili

uSnod dakuntruSobda garejaSi. rasac ki

gaekara, yvelaferi gaafuWa. sainteresoa, am

ambavs ratom ar ixseneben? an zezeulad

mkvdar sagareo saqmeTa ministrs ratom

aravin usvams kiTxvebs? demilitacia da

demarkacia magas exeba~

partias, posti datova da maleve

ukan dabrunda, amjerad ukve sagareo

saqmeTa ministris rangSi.

_ es gadaxtoma daufases da

lamis eqvsi welia, rac sagareo

saqmeTa ministria.

_ maTTvis misaRebi figuraa

da ratom Scvlian. garejis mimarTulebiT

sul iyo raRac problemebi,

magram momlocvelebisTvis

iqauroba aravis dauketia.

„qarTuli ocnebis” mosvlis Sedeg

momlocvelebi garejaSi asvlas

veRar axerxebdnen. „qarTulma

ocnebam” „cianids saqmiT”

qarTul eklesias umZimesi dartyma

miayena. axla sazRvris gadawevas

iliCovasa da melaSvils

abraleben. ar gamikvirdeba, rom

afxazeTisa da cxinvalis regionis

okupaciac am or adamians

dabraldes.

_ Tema SevcvaloT da korona-

pandemiazec visaubroT. mTeli

gazafxuli meocnebeebi Tavs im-

iT iwonebdnen, rom kovid 19-s

gaumklavdnen. maSin Tu moeriv-

nen, axla ram SeuSalaT xeli?

_ arc maSin gamklavebian koronas.

ubralod, adgnen da Cagvketes,

saxlidanac ki ar gviSvebdnen.

marto „ocnebis” Cinosnebi

daqrodnen jipebiT. maSinac Zalian

bevri inficirebuli iyo, ubralod,

testireba ar tardeboda.

ramdenjerac moviTxoveT

testirebis Catareba, imnaZe-gamyreliZe-cercvaZis

sameuli gvpasuxobda,

rom saWiro araao. axla

aRmoCnda, rom saWiro yofila. is

xelisufleba verafers gaakeTebs,

romlis muSaobis stilic

jigruli pontia. sad aris warmatebuli

krizismenejeri an vin

daarqva krizismenejeri? _ lari

gaiqca; fasebi katastrofulad

gaizarda; farmacevtul sfero-

Si oligarqebi gvyavs.

_ erTi aseTi oligarqi „qo-

cebs” „nacebTan” gaeqcaT.

_ im oligarqma, bodiSi da,

politikurad kargad miawuwa

„qarTul ocnebas”. kriminali

yvavis da raSi gamoixateba gaxarias

krizismenejeroba? an risi

imedi gvqonda, lamaziseuli jandacvis

ministri rom gvyavs, romelmac

Tavadac ki ar icis, ras

bJuturobs?! aseTi krizismenejerebi

rom gvyavs, magitomac

aris ase mZimed saqme.

_ bevri Tqveni kolega

24 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

fiqrobs, rom xelisufleba ko-

rona statistikas saarCevnod

iyenebs. Tqvenc ase ar fiqrobT?

_ eseni yvelafers ikadreben.

ar gamovricxav, rom Segnebulad

zrdian statistikas. aRar undaT,

rom xalxi opozicias Sexvdes.

winaswar iWeren Tadarigs,

rom arCevnebis Semdeg saprotesto

gamosvlebi ar iyos.

_ Tqveni azriT, dasWirdeba

opozicias arCevnebis Semdeg

saprotesto aqciebis mowyoba?

_ 63%-s Tu daiweren, gamova

xalxi. xalxi rom ar gamovides,

kovidinfeqcias amoefarebian da

Cagvketaven.

_ ramdeni Tve Cagvketaven?

ase usasrulod xom ar gagr-

Zeldeba?

_ ase usasrulod ar gagr-

Zeldeba, magram ramdenime Tves

xom moigeben.

_ rogor ggoniaT, gabedavs

ivaniSvili 63%-is daweras?

_ iseT madaze arian, rom undaT

am cifris dawera. dRes

„qarTuli ocneba” „kavkasieli

tyve qalis” personaJis rolSia,

romelic ambobs, _ ori gza maqvs:

an zaqsSi mivdivar, an im gogos

prokuraturaSi mivyavar. „ocnebac”

mag dReSia, _ an wavlen qorwilSi,

anu ar aRigavebian pirisagan

miwisa da gadavlen opoziciaSi,

an midian prokuraturaSi

da politikidan mouwevT wasvla.

_ sociologiur kvlevebTan

dakavSirebiT aJiotaJi ar cxreba.

TiTqmis yvela partia ukmayofiloa.

kmayofili arc „er-

Tiani saqarTvelo _ demokrati-

uli moZraoba” unda iyos.

_ es kvlevebi politikur koniunqturas

aris ayolili da

yvelas interesi ukve Tavxedurad

da Riad Cans. aranairad ar

SeiZleba, kaci am kvlevebs endos.

CvenTvis erTaderTi da WeSmariti

barometri sazogadoebis azria.

xalxis ganwyoba zepirad viciT

_ ninowmindidan dawyebuli,

lagodexiT damTavrebuli. amitom

amaTi kvlevebi politikuri

analizisTvis gamousadegaria. me

Tu mkiTxavT, arCevnebamde yvela

aseTi kvlevis gamoqveyneba unda

aikrZalos. arCevnebis win partiebisTvis

procentebis dawera

sazogadoebaze gavlenis moxdenaa

da meti araferi.

saqarTvelo erTaderTi qveyanaa,

romelsac erovnuli sazogadoebrivi

azris Semswavleli

damoukidebeli saagento ar gaaCnia.

yvela sxva qveyenas aqvs. Cven-

Tan ki msgavss kvlevebs ucxouri

institutebi atareben da, faqtobrivad,

maTi dRis wesrigiT

vcxvrobT. es sircxvilia. gadamTieli

ar unda midgendes saqar-

TveloSi xalxis ganwyobas. maTi

teqnologiebi ukve zepirad vici.

CemTvis ufro sando iqneboda,

Tu msgavss kvlevebs qarTvelebi

Caatarebdnen. dailia saqarTveloSi

sociologebi? Zalian kargi

sociologebi gvyavs da isini

SesaniSnavad Seiswavlian sazogadoebriv

azrs. amisTvis mxolod

damoukidebeli saagentos Seqmna

aris saWiro. es saagento biujetma

unda daafinansos, im biujetma,

romelsac Cven vavsebT.

damoukidebeli qveyana Tu varT,

sazogadoebrivi azris Semswavleli

erovnuli saagento unda

SevqmnaT.

_ bolo dros sityva erovnuli

da patriotizmi Zalian ga-

ufasurda.

_ „qarTulma ocnebam” yvelafers

fasi daukarga.

_ Tqven politikuri devni-

lobidan 2013 wels dabrundiT

samSobloSi. maSin Tu warmoid-

gendiT, rom „qarTuli ocneba”

aseT dReSi Caagdebda qveyanas?

_ namdvilad ar velodi, rom

ase moxdeboda. biZina ivaniSvili

sazogadoebaSi Zalian maRali

ndobiT sargeblobda. ndoba

hqonda mis gundsac. Zalian male

mivxvdiT, ra gundic iyo „qarTuli

ocneba” da ukve 2013 wlis

Semodgomaze daviwyeT maTi kritika.

„qarTulma ocnebam” TviTmkvlelis

instinqti CairTo. ase-

Ti avtoriteti gqondes da ase

gamoiWra yeli, warmoudgenelia.

asi gamokiTxulidan asive „qarTul

ocnebas” aginebs, misi ase da

aseo. kidev vityvi, rom ar velo-

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


gayalbeba daaanonsa~

`vambobdi da axlac gavimeoreb: sademilitacio-sademarkacio komisiis

muSaoba gamWvirvale unda iyos. yvela unda Cagvayenon saqmis kursSi.

sazRvrebis dadgena sakuTari baRCa-baRebis SemoRobva ar aris. es

saqarTvelos saxelmwifo sazRvaria da yvelam unda icodes, Tu sad gadis

TiToeuli santimetri~

di, gana imitom ar velodi, rom

dauSveblad mimaCnda, amxela aRtyinebiT

rom mogiyvans xalxi da

mxolod samarTlianobis aRdgenas

gTxovs, ase ar unda moiqce.

ivaniSvils yvela berketi xelT

hqonda, rom samarTlianoba aRedgina.

amis nacvlad azila, mizila,

mozila da gvaqvs is, rac suraTic

dRes aris. saqarTvelo

msoflios qveynebis saTvalavSi

ukve aRar Sedis.

amis Tqma ar minda, magram

yarabaRSi mimdinare konfliqtidan

gamomdinare miwevs am Temaze

saubari. Cvens qeyanas, faqtobrivad,

aRar aqvs samxedro potenciali.

is verc ki Seedreba

somxeTsa da azerbaijans. maT

fonze saerTod gvaqvs raime potenciali?

isev sazRvrebs davubrundebi

da am uvic xelisuflebas vetyvi,

rom saqarTvelos sazRvris Semofargvlis

unikaluri da ganumeorebeli

tradiciebi aqvs. daviT

aRmaSeneblis darma mefe farnavazma

Seqmna saxelmwifoebrioba.

man pirvelma Cauyara safuZveli

qarTul saxelmwifos _

gaaerTiana egrisi da qarTli. am

kacma kartografiuli sizustiT

`risi imedi gvqonda, lamaziseuli jandacvis

ministri rom gvyavs, romelmac Tavadac ki ar

icis, ras bJuturobs?! aseTi krizismenejerebi

rom gvyavs, magitomac aris ase mZimed saqme~

moxaza saqarTvelos sazRvrebi _

kaxeTidan dawyebuli, samaCablo-

Ti da samxreT saqarTveloTi damTavrebuli.

farnavazma aseve kartografiuli

sizustiT dayo

saqarTvelo mxareebad. axla rom

aiRo saqarTvelos mxareebi da

sazRvrebi, erTi-erTSi emTxveva

farnavazis versias. es didebuli

mefe Cv.w.aR.-mde moRvaweobda. sazRvrebis

Semofargvlis tradicia

qristemde gvaqvs da am ugunurebma

gareja dagvakargvines.

_ „qarTul ocnebas” Tu davujerebT,

daviTgareja „nacionalurma

moZraobam” dagvakargv-

ina.

_ wina xelisuflebamac ar daaklo,

magram daviRaleT „nacionalebze”

saubriT. ukve mecxre

welia, rac qveynis xelisuflebis

saTaveSi „qarTuli ocnebaa”.

_ ise, „nacionalebze” rogor

laparakoben, roca partiasa da

maRal Tanamdebobebze sul yo-

fili „nacebi” hyavT.

_ magitomac aris saubari Zneli

Zvelsa da axalze. aviRoT

„qarTuli ocnebis” saarCevno

sia. iq 80% wina xelisuflebis

warmomadgenelia. ver gaarCev,

sad iwyeba „nacmoZraoba” da sad

mTavrdeba „qarTuli ocneba” an

_ piriqiT. daviRaleT amaze saubriT.

etyoba, erTni arian. gansxvaveba

isaa, rom wina xelisuflebis

dros garejaSi mosalocad

SevdiodiT, axla amasac

veRar vaxerxebT.

_ moaxloebul arCevnebsa da

opoziciazec visaubroT. opozicia

rom ver gaerTianda gav-

igeT, magram ase erTmaneTis

lanZRva vis gaugia? Tqveni par-

tia ki aravis lanZRavs, magram

arc romelime partiasTan aris

axlos.

_ mgonia, rom normaluri pozicia

gvikavia. ar SeiZleba, partia

TeTreuliviT icvlides principebs.

„erTianma saqarTvelo

_ demokratiulma moZraobam” Tavidanve

vTqviT, rom Cven opoziciasTan

molaparakebebze saerTo

miznis misaRwevad mivdivarT. am

miznis miRweva ki qarTvelma xal-

xma mogvTxova. sazogadoebas surda

opoziciis gaerTianeba, ra-

Ta saarCevno sistema Secvliliyo,

rom mravalpartiuli parlamenti

da koaliciuri mTavroba

migveRo. Cven amisTvis varT

opoziciasTan erTad. arasdros

gviTqvams, rom vinmesTan bloks

SevqmnidiT. damoukideblad viyridiT

yovelTvis kenWs da axlac

ase iqneba. wina xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi dReisTvis ramdenime

partiaSi gadanawildnen.

maT erTmaneTs pretenziebi wauyenes,

rac am viTarebaSi kategoriulad

miuRebelia. opoziciis

opozicioneroba dRes gaumarTlebelia.

Cvens partias es arasworad

miaCnia.

_ Tqvens partiasa da piradad

Tqven vici, ra damokidebulebac

gaqvT yofili xelisuflebis

mimarT, magram Tqvenc ki ar

wamogiZaxebiaT, iseTebi wamoaZa-

xes erTmaneTs „evropulma saq-

arTvelom” da „nacionalurma

moZraobam”.

_ Zalian bevris wamoZaxeba da

gaxseneba SegviZlia, magram xmas

ar viRebT. gansxvavebis, kategoriulad

miuReblobisa da politikuri

mtrobis miuxedavad, Cven

miRweul SeTanxmebas ar varRvevT.

varT opoziciasTan da er-

Tad vcdilobT, „qarTuli ocneba”

davamarcxoT, romelmac am

qveyanas cudis meti araferi moutana.

„nacionaluri moZraoba”

da „evropuli saqarTvelo” ratom

Wams erTmaneTs, ver gamigia.

rodidanaa, rom bokeria da saakaSvili

sxvadasxva arian? SeiZleba,

axla gansxvavebuli azrebi

aqvT, magram sajarod nu esxmian

erTmaneTs Tavs. es Zalian cudad

Cans.

_ opoziciam maSin gadawyvi-

ta gaerTianeba, roca gasul

wels „qarTulma ocnebam” sakon-

stitucio cvlilebebi Caagdo.

sxvebTan erTad Tqveni partia

miujda molaparakebebis magidas.

maSin ivaniSvilma kaci gamogigzavnaT

da raRacebis sanacvlod

gTxovaT, rom opozici-

uri erToba dagetovebinaT. ase

iyo marTla?

_ iyo mcdelobebi, rom am molaparakebebis

magididan avmdgariyaviT,

magram es ar gavake-

TeT, radganac xalxis dakveTa

iyo, rom saarCevno kodeqsSi cvlilebebi

Sesuliyo. CvenTvis

Zalian mniSvnelovani gaxldaT

sakonstitucio cvlilebebi da

es veraferma gadawona. vibrZviT

damoukideblad, magram varT

opoziciasTan erTad.

_ 31 oqtombris arCevnebisgan

ras elodebiT?

_ es ar iqneba ioli arCevnebi.

ioli rogor iqneba, roca

„qarTulma ocnebam” arCevnebis

gayalbeba daaanonsa?

_ sad daaanonsa?

_ biZina ivaniSvilma Tqva,

63%-s aviRebTo. aseTi procentebis

aRebas rom apireben, iq

seriozul gayalbebasTan gveqneba

saqme. mkvdar sulebs ar daatrialeben,

magram sxva meTodebiT

gaayalbeben. saarCevno komisiebi

maTia. teqnikur sakiTxebze

ar Rirs saubari, magram amxela

procentebs rom aanonseben,

aSkaraa, rom didi gayalbeba igegmeba.

25


òcneba~ koronaaferiT

naadrevad izeima „qarTulma

Sorena marsagiSvili

ocnebam” gazafxulze koronaviru-

599 92 16 22

sis damarcxeba. movida Semodgoma

da vnaxeT krizismenejerisa da sam

muSketerad Seracxuli eqimebis Zala. inficirebulebis raode-

noba katastrofulad izrdeba da win kidev uaresi gvelodeba.

muSketerebi ar imCneven, magram aSkarad niri aqvT wamxdari.

leiboristuli partiis wevri nino metreveli qveyanaSi Seqm-

nil epidviTarebas katastrofuls uwodebs, magram ar sjera,

rom dReSi 1000 da meti inficirebuli gvyavs. opozicioneri

varaudobs, rom xelisufleba raRac triukisTvis emzadeba da

es triuki 31 oqtombers dagegmil arCevnebs ukavSirdeba.

ra eWvebi aqvs opozicias?

ratom gainavarda ase laRad

koronam saqarTveloSi? ratom

unda moSordnen politikas bi-

znesmenebi? ra aRar uSvelis iv-

aniSvils? ratom gaCerda dasav-

leTi? _ am Temebze nino metrev-

eli „qronika+~-s esaubreba:

_ qalbatono nino, koronis

gavrcelebasTan dakavSirebiT

saocrebebi xdeba. roca gazafx-

ulze dReSi 3-4 SemTxveva iyo

Cagvketes, axla yoveldRe 1000

inficirebulia da gveubnebian,

sapanikod ar gvaqvs saqmeo.

_ am virusis mimarT „qarTuli

ocnebis” midgoma sakvirveli

da saocaria. albaT, gemaxsovrebaT,

ra xdeboda gazafxulze:

dReSi 2-3 SemTxvevazec ki isterikaSi

vardebodnen eqimebi da

xalxsac zafravdnen. gveubnebodnen,

rom raRac saswauli

xdeboda. axla dReSi 1000 da meti

inficirebulia da simSvide

sufevs. es, bunebrivia, eWvebs

iwvevs.

_ Tqven ar gjeraT, rom am-

deni adamiania dainficirebuli?

_ korona rom veragi virusia,

amaze ar vkamaTob, me eqimebis

simSvide maeWvebs. arc xelisuflebis

reaqcia aris adekvaturi.

2-3 SemTxvevaze Tu isterikaSi

iyvnen, axla auxsnelia maTi simSvide.

aSkarad raRac xdeba. am

simSvidiT SeiZleba, TavianT uniaTobas

malaven. yvela imaze saubrobda,

rom virusis meore tal-

Ra Semodgomaze iqneboda. amisTvis

yvela qveyana moemzada. amaT

ra qnes? is fuli, romelic koronasTan

sabrZolvelad iyo

gamoyofili, SeWames. bunebrivia,

gviCndeba kiTxvebi, ratom ar

moemzadnen meore talRisTvis?

es kiTxvebi maTac rom ar davusvaT,

ise iqcevian, viTom araferi

sagangaSo ar xdeba, da yvelaferi

ise midis, rogorc saWiroa.

arc is aris gamoricxuli, rom

inficirebulTa raodenoba mcdaria

da es uxarisxo testebis

bralia. ramdenma Tqva, rom testebis

pasuxi araswori iyo. Cem

irgvliv Zalian bevrma gadaamowma

am testebis pasuxebi da korona

ar aRmoaCnda. es gadamowmeba

imdenad Zviri siamovnebaa, rom

amaze yvelas ar miuwvdeba xeli.

imis magivrad, rom uxarisxo

testebsa da mTlianad CamoSlil

jandacvis sistemas mixedon, isev

opoziciisTvis undaT yvelafris

dabraleba. gasul kviras „nacionalebma”

baTumSi aqcia gamarTes

da epidsituaciis afeTqebas

am Tavyrilobas abraleben,

nino metreveli:

`jandacvis

sistema

mTlianad

CamoiSala~

arada, am aqciamde bevrad adre

afeTqda. igive xalxs daaviwyda,

mTeli zafxuli dendroparkSi

rom ireodnen: qarTvelebi xom

mihyavdaT da mihyavdaT, rus turistebsac

daaTvalierebines bi-

Zinas Semoqmedeba. ruseTi koronis

gavrcelebis mxriv msoflioSi

erT-erT pirvel adgilzea.

vin icis, ramdeni virusiani rusi

turisti dadioda dendropark-

Si. es aisaxa kidevac aWaraze _ epidsituacia

afeTqda! mtkicebiTi

formiT arafris Tqma ar minda,

magram, ratomRac, mgonia, rom

saarCevnod inficirebulebis raodenobas

specialurad zrdian.

_ amis gakeTeba risTvis

sWirdebaT, xalxi arCevnebze

rom ar wavides?

_ SeiZleba, amazec fiqroben,

magram me sul sxva versia maqvs:

isev gazafxuls gavixseneb, saxlSi

rom visxediT dazafrulebi.

erT dResac gviTxres, rom

virusi damarcxebulia. im periodSi

„qarTuli ocnebis” reitingi

TiTqmis gaormagda. 2019

wlis 20 ivnisis sisxliani Ramis

Semdeg ivaniSvilisa da misi partiis

reitingi minimumze iyo dasuli.

am gazafxulze ki es

reitingi TiTqmis gaormagda.

xalxma, etyoba, xelisufleba

patronad miiCnia, romelic mas

virusisgan icavda. ar gamikvirdeba,

rom arCevnebis win inficirebulTa

raodenoba mkveTrad

Semcirdes. xelisuflebis pirveli

pirebi gamovlen da amayad

gvetyvian, rom mokle droSi Se-

Zles virusTan gamklaveba. amiT

mmarTveli partiis reitingi kidev

moimatebs da 31 oqtombers

maT sasargeblod gakeTdeba

arCevani.

inficirebulTa aseTi rekorduli

zrda SeiZleba xalxis

daSinebas isaxavs miznad. „ocnebisTvis”

ukeTesia, Tu cota amomrCeveli

miva ubnebze. Tavis momxreebs

miiyvanen da arCevnebsac

moigeben. garda amisa, ukve viciT,

rom vinc saavadmyofoSi,

karantinSi an TviTizolaciaSia,

arCevnebze ver wava. maTTan gadasatan

yuTebs miitanen. gadasatani

yuTi ki arCevnebis gasayalbeblad

saukeTeso saSualebaa.

ivaniSvilma tyuilad ki ar Tqva,

63%-is aReba SegviZliao. koronis

daxmarebiT Tavisuflad

dadeben maTTvis misaReb Sedegs.

xalxi da opozicia aseTi Sedegis

gamocxadebas protestiT

Sexvdeba, daanonsdeba saprotesto

aqcia, „qarTuli ocneba” adgeba

da yvelafers Caketavs. sagangebo

mdgomareobis dros

aqciis gamarTva akrZalulia. mokled,

aSkaraa, rom koronaaferiT

apireben arCevnebis mogebas.

_ arCevnebis Semdeg Caketvas

bevri elodeba, xalxi ase mar-

tivad Sexvdeba am gadawyvet-

ilebas?

_ ara mgonia. es qveyana kidev

erT Caketvas veRar gadaitans.

ekonomika Tavze dagvemxo. xalxs

elementarulad puris fuli

aRar aqvs. xalxi arc arCevnebis

gayalbebas dauSvebs.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom xalxi

arCevnebis gayalbebas aRar

dauSvebs?

_ „ocnebam” es qveyana umZimes

mdgomareobaSi Caagdo. sazogadoebas

gaTavisebuli aqvs, rom

Tu cvlilebebi, keTildReoba

da ganviTareba unda, xelisuflebis

Secvlaa saWiro.

_ xalxs cvlilebebic unda

da xelisuflebis Secvlac, magram

opozicia ukargavs moti-

vacias.

_ ratom vukargavT motivacias?

Cven mosaxleobas vTxovT,

rom arCevnebze movides da xelisufleba

Secvalos.

_ am mowodebebiT ki gamodix-

arT, magram erTmaneTs rom WamT

opoziciuri partiebi, xalxs

motivacia ekargeba.

_ Cveni erTmaneTTan dapirispireba

SeiZleba lamazi sanaxavi

araa, magram es xalxs motivacias

ver daukargavs. Cven erTmaneT-

Tan arasdros vyofilvarT Sexmatkbilebulebi.

_ bolos xom SexmatkbildiT?

_ ki ar SevxmatkbildiT, mivxvdiT,

rom mxolod erTiani

ZalebiT SevZlebdiT, ivaniSvilisTvis

wagveglija sakonstitucio

cvlilebebi. srulad proporciul

sistemaze gadasvla

`vinc saavadmyofoSi, karantinSi an

TviTizolaciaSia, arCevnebze ver wava. maTTan

gadasatan yuTebs miitanen. gadasatani yuTi ki

arCevnebis gasayalbeblad saukeTeso

saSualebaa. ivaniSvilma tyuilad ki ar Tqva,

63%-is aReba SegviZliao. koronis daxmarebiT

Tavisuflad dadeben maTTvis misaReb Sedegs~

ver movaxerxeT, magram imdens

mivaRwieT, rom wels arCevnebi

proporciulTan miaxloebuli

sistemiT tardeba. yvelas gagvixarda

aseTi seriozuli saerTa-

Soriso mxardaWera. opozicia

erTad rom ar damdgariyo, aseT

mxardaWeras ver miviRebdiT.

_ arCevnebis gayalbebis

SemTxvevaSi Tu geqnebaT aseTi

seriozuli saerTaSoriso mx-

ardaWera?

_ ra Tqma unda, gveqneba. evropelma

da amerikelma politikosebma

araerTxel gausves xazi

imas, rom saqarTveloSi arCevnebi

demokratiulad unda Catardes.

arCevnebi Tu gayalbdeba,

evropidan da vaSingtonidan

mwvave reaqciebic ar daayovnebs.

_ im SemTxvevaSic vixilavT

dasavleTis mxardaWeras, Tu

opoziciur partiebs Soris da-

pirispireba iqneba?

_ am brZolaSi opozicia er-

Tiania. Cven SevTanxmdiT, rom

erTad davicavT xmebs. dasavle-

Ti amaSi Zalian did daxmarebas

gagviwevs. mTelma msofliom gaigo,

rom „qarTuli ocneba” matyuara

xelisuflebaa da misi ndoba

ar SeiZleba. evropam da amerikam

isic icis, rom „ocnebis”

dedac da mamac aris ruseTi da

isini saqarTveloSi mxolod

ruseTis interesebs atareben. im

SemTxvevaSi, Tu isev „ocneba”

darCa xelisuflebaSi, dasavle-

Ti regionSi mis erTaderT

dasayrdens dakargavs.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ „qarTuli ocnebis” xelisuflebaSi

darCena niSnavs, rom aq

rusuli interesebi gatardeba.

saqarTvelo ki am regionSi dasavleTis,

pirvel rigSi ki amerikis

erTaderTi dasayrdenia.

vaSingtonma ramdenime aTeuli

miliardi dolari daxarja, rom

saqarTvelo damoukidebel qveynad

Camoyalibebuliyo. dagvexmara

jaris aRWurvaSi. gvexmareba

demokratiuli institutebis

26

26 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


apirebs arCevnebis mogebas~

mSeneblobaSi. Tundac pragmatuli

TvalsazrisiT amerikelebi

Cvenze uars ar ityvian, amden

miliards qars ar gaatanen.

_ saqarTveloze ase martivad

uars arc ruseTi ityvis.

_ ruseTis neba rom iyos,

saqarTvelos arasdros Seeleoda.

sabednierod, am samyaroSi

kidev arian sxva didi qveynebi,

romlebic moskovs saqarTvelos

gadaylapvis saSualebas ar aZleven.

„qarTuli ocneba” Tu darCa

qveynis xelisuflebaSi, marTla

ruseTis lukma gavxdebiT. am safrTxeze

araerTi gancxadeba

gaakeTes amerikelma politikosebma.

amerikelebi imis Sesaxebac

gvafrTxileben, rom ruseTi 31

oqtombris arCevnebSi Caereva.

_ bolo xanebSi amerikelebma

TiTqos miiviwyes saqarTvelo

da „qarTulma ocnebamac” aiw-

yvita.

_ „qarTulma ocnebam” marTla

aiwyvita da yvela zRvars gadavida.

me ver vityvi, rom amerikelebs

saqarTvelo daaviwydaT.

amerikas Tavisi Sida saqmeebic

mosagvarebeli aqvs. aq 3 noembers

saprezidento arCevnebi tardeba

da mTeli yuradReba am movlenazea

gadatanili. es imas sulac

ar niSnavs, rom vaSingtoni

saqarTveloSi mimdinare procesebs

aRar akvirdeba. amerika gamadidebeli

SuSiT uyurebs 31 oqtombris

arCevnebs. igives izams

evropac.

_ damkvirveblebs, albaT, ver

gamoagzavnian.

_ koronapandemiis gamo bevri

ucxoeli damkvirvebeli ver Camova,

magram aq aris euTos sadamkvirveblo

misia, romelic am

arCevnebs aucileblad daakvirdeba.

arCevnebis dasrulebis Semdeg

dasavleTs mouwevs protestis

gamoxatva.

_ ratom? ggoniaT, rom

„qarTuli ocneba” arCevnebis

Sedegebis gayalbebas Seecdeba?

_ ki ar mgonia, darwmunebuli

var. „qarTuli ocnebis” beladma

tyuilad ar axsena 63%. aSkaraa,

rom arCevnebi gayalbdeba.

_ gayalbebis gareSe amxela

procentebs ver aiReben? Tavad

amboben, rom uzarmazari mx-

ardaWera aqvT.

_ 63%-s „qarTuli ocneba” ver

aiRebs. aseTi Sedegi maSinac ki

ver dades, roca popularobis

pikSi iyvnen. 2012 wels ivaniSvilis

partiam 52% miiRo. mas Semeg

„ocnebam” yovelgvari ndoba

dakarga da saidan moaqvT es

cifrebi? davijero, ivaniSvils

normaluri mrCeveli ar hyavs,

rom am sisuleleze xeli aaRebinos?

amxela procentis daweras

didi ambebi mohyveba. xalxi dam-

Seulia, kriminali saSinlad gazrdilia

da aseT dros mmarTveli

partia amxela procentebs

ver aiRebs.

_ arc SarSandeli 20 ivnisis

sisxliani darbeva unda dagvaviwydes.

amanac didi gavlena moax-

dina xalxze.

_ 20 ivnisis sisxliani Rame

`ruseTi koronis gavrcelebis mxriv msoflioSi erT-erT pirvel adgilzea.

vin icis, ramdeni virusiani rusi turisti dadioda dendroparkSi. es aisaxa

kidevac aWaraze - epidsituacia afeTqda! mtkicebiTi formiT arafris Tqma

ar minda, magram, ratomRac, mgonia, rom saarCevnod inficirebulebis

raodenobas specialurad zrdian~

Savi laqaa „ocnebisTvis”. mosaxleoba

ase SimSilis piras rom ar

mieyvanaT, SeiZleboda xalxs am

darbevaze Tvalebi daexuWa da

„ocnebisTvis” kidev mieca Sansi.

pirdapir vTqvaT: adamianis interesebi

xSirad kuWze gadis.

Cveni mosaxleobis did nawils

kuWi SimSiliT uxmeba. erTi rame

namdvilad vici, Zalauflebis

SesanarCuneblad biZina uamrav

fuls daxarjavs.

_ didi xani iyaviT Jurnal-

istikaSi da, albaT, xvdebiT,

rodis saubroben politikosebi

damajereblad da rodis imx-

neveben Tavs. „qarTuli ocneb-

is” liderebi roca arCevnebis

mogebaze saubroben, damajere-

blad gamoiyurebian Tu Tavs

imxneveben?

_ damajerebloba akliaT.

„ocnebis” liderebi damarcxebas

grZnoben, magram ar imCneven, sakuTar

Tavs amxneveben da sxvebsac.

Wiris dros rom simamacis

gamovlena undaT da SiSi aweriaT

saxeze, ase arian ivaniSvili da

misi garemocva. „qarTul ocnebas”

am arCevnebis Zalian eSinia,

radgan bevri rame aqvs dasakargi.

normalurebi rom iyvnen

da amdeni ram ar hqondeT dasakargi,

ori vadis amowurvis Semdeg

xelisuflebaSi darCenaze

ifiqrebdnen? es gamoricxulia.

arc saqarTveloSi da arc sxva

qveynebSi xelisuflebebi ori

vadis Semdeg aRar rCebian, isini

icvlebian.

_ yvelgan ase ar aris. Cvens

mezobel azerbaijanSi, belarusSi,

Sua aziis respublike-

bSi gansxvavebuli suraTia. iq

imis daTvlac SeuZlebelia,

meramdene vadiT aris erTi kaci

xelisuflebaSi.

_ imedi maqvs, „qarTuli oc-

`vaSingtonma ramdenime aTeuli miliardi

dolari daxarja, rom saqarTvelo

damoukidebel qveynad Camoyalibebuliyo.

dagvexmara jaris aRWurvaSi. gvexmareba

demokratiuli institutebis mSeneblobaSi.

Tundac pragmatuli TvalsazrisiT

amerikelebi Cvenze uars ar ityvian, amden

miliards qars ar gaatanen~

neba” am qveynebs ar edreba. Cven

xom evropisken gvaqvs gezi aRebuli.

vambobT, rom dasavleTi

mogvwons da demokratiuli qveynis

aSeneba gvinda. demokratiul

qveyanaSi or vadaze meti xniT vin

rCeba xelisuflebaSi? iq aseTi

rame, ubralod, gamoricxulia.

Cvenc xom demokratiis Suquroba

gvindoda. daiviwya es dapireba

ivaniSvilma. ase ar SeiZleba.

_ ivaniSvils demokratiis

Suquroba ar surda, is qarTuli

demokratiiT evropis gaoce-

bas apirebda.

_ evropas namdvilad vaocebT,

magram ara demokratiiT. etyoba,

ivaniSvils mesame vadiT surs

evropis gadareva. es Tu moxda,

dasavleTi marTla gadaireva da

gaocdeba.

_ amaSi mTavari meocnebe

aSkarad putins baZavs. is ukve

avadsaxsenebelia 20 welia, rac

xelisuflebis saTaveSia.

_ araa gamoricxuli, marTla

putins baZavdes. Zalian xSirad

axsenebs 2030 wels. etyoba,

Caifiqra, rom 2030 wlamde iqneba

saqarTvelos saTaveSi.

_ am TariRs tyuilad ar

aikviatebda da marTla 2030

wlamde ar darCes.

_ ara mgonia. Tu darCa, maSin

am qveynis saSveli aRar iqneba,

sabolood gadavalT rusul relsebze

da maTi gubernia gavxdebiT.

_ ivaniSvilma arc erTi da-

pireba ar Seasrula da raRa

2030 wlamde darCenis pirobas

Seasrulebs?

_ erTi danapirebi xom unda

Seasrulos. amas xumrobiT vambob.

RmerTma dagvifaros, rom

„qocebi” xelisuflebaSi 2030

wlamde darCnen. biZinas erTi

suli aqvs, aqedan rogorme gagvyaros.

pirdapir eTerSi ganacxada,

aq samuSao adgilebs ver SevqmniT

da sazRvargareT wadiTo.

wasasvlelad iaf aviabileTebsac

dagvpirda. bevri ukve gaqceuli

iqneboda qveynidan, magram koronam

SeuSala xeli ivaniSvils

ganzraxvis SesrulebaSi.

_ amazea naTqvami, zogi Wiri

margebeliao.

_ korona marTla dagvexmara,

rom Cvens samSobloSi davrCiT.

erTi suli aqvT, rodis wavalT

aqedan. Cvens adgilze sxvebs daasaxleben,

kaxa kalaZe da misi biznespartniori

ivliane wulaia

tyulad ki ar aSeneben amden

korpuss. qocebi ukve xalxis dacinvaze

gadavidnen. saprezidento

arCevnebis win kartofilisa

da xaxvis darigeba gadavxarSeT.

am zafxuls xalxs kitri, pomidori

da badrijani dauriges. saarCevnod

kidev daarigeben raRacebs.

bolo or kviraSi „ocnebis”

fondSi 4 milioni lari Sevida.

aSkaraa, rom mmarTveli partia

didi fulis daxarjvas apirebs.

_ fulis daxarjva yovelTvis

araa Sedegi. 2018 wels 200 mil-

ioni daxarjes, magram salome

zurabiSvili Zlivs gaiyvanes

prezidentad.

_ ivaniSvili fulis daxarjvas

am arCevnebze ar moerideba,

oRond Tavis pirad kapitals ar

Seexeba. partiuli SemowirulobebiT

da sabiujeto saxsrebiT

Seecdeba xalxis mosyidvas.

Zalian Tu gauWirda da es fuli

ar eyo, Tavis muTaqebsac moxsnis

pirs, rasac Semdeg aTmagad

amoiRebs. magis fuli rom ar

daxarjuliyo, magitom Casves

„ocnebis” siaSi oligarqebi da

biznesmenebi. parlamentSi mosaxvedrad

es adamianebi did fuls

daxarjaven. arafers moeridebian,

radganac ician, rom sakanonmdeblo

organoSi Tu moxvdebian,

TavianT bizness aayvaveben.

normalur qveynebSi biznesmenebi

parlamentSi ar midian. iq bizness

„kriSa” ar sWirdeba. aq Tu

didi fulis Sovna da biznesis

awyoba ginda an seriozuli

mfarveli unda gyavdes, an Tavad

unda moxvde parlamentSi da sakuTari

biznesi Tavad „dakriSo”.

leiboristebi wlebia gaviZaxiT,

rom biznesmenebi da oligarqebi

politikas unda movaSoroT.

_ odesme SeZlebs saqarTvelo

biznesisa da politikis gam-

ijvnas?

_ ar SeZlebs da ganviTarebaze

arc unda ifiqros. rasac ni-

Snavs oligarqebis xelisufleba-

Si yofna, yvelam gamoscada. miliarderia

ivaniSvili, magram mainc

biujetisken gaurbis Tvali.

Tavis pirad safuled aqcia igi.

mSvenivrad grZnobs Tavs da am

mdgomareobas ar Seeleva. Tavisi

nebiT ar wava, is xalxma unda

gauSvas. xelisuflebis Secvla-

Si dasavleTic dagvexmareba. isini

gayalbebul arCevnebs ar aRiareben.

ivaniSvili Tu Tavisas ar

moiSlis, dRis wesrigSi misi qonebis

dayadaRebis sakiTxic dadgeba.

amerikas SeuZlia amis gake-

Teba. es „qarTuli ocnebis” lidermac

kargad icis, magram mainc

Seecdeba, rom gariskos.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

27


`statistika sando araa,

dramatulad

gauaresebuli

giorgi abaSiZe

epidsituaciis fonze „strategia

aRmaSeneblis” erT-erTi lideri,

sergo CixlaZe, jandacvis ministr ekaterine tikaraZes disku-

siaSi iwvevs.

„epidemiologiuri situacia yoveldRe uaresdeba, aseve

yoveldRe uaresdeba epidsituaciis marTva qveyanaSi. mTlianad

morRveulia testireba-diagnostikis komponenti, gaurkveveli

da urTierTgamomricxavi informacia vrceldeba sawolfondTan

dakavSirebiT, savalalo mdgomareobaa e. w. kovidsastumroebSi,

112 da saswrafo daxmareba droulad da, rig SemTxvevebSi, saer-

Tod ver reagirebs moqalaqeebis jandacvis saWiroebebze. ar

gvaqvs informacia, ra mdgomareobaa samedicino saxarji masaleb-

is an wamlebis kuTxiT. samedicino personalis gadamzadeba da

jandacvis sferoSi adamianuri resursebis efeqtianad mobilizeba

kvlav ar xdeba. sruliad gaumWvirvalea kovidTan mimarTebiT

mobilizebuli da ucxouri daxmarebis saxiT miRebuli miliardobiT

laris xarjva. amasTan, dRiTidRe uaresdeba adamianeb-

isa da qveynis ekonomikuri mdgomareoba.

sergo CixlaZe:

`gaurkvevelia,

kovidfondidan

milionebi sad wavida

da pasuxismgebel pirebs

seriozuli pasuxebis

gacema mouwevT!~

ukve yovel dRes aqvs gadamwyveti

mniSvneloba, radgan efeqtiani

gegmisa da strategiis

gareSe yoveli dRis dayovneba

damatebiT gardacvlil, aTasobiT

dainficirebul da aseve aTasobiT

siRaribisa da SimSilisTvis ganwirul

adamians niSnavs.

amitom dauyovnebliv viTxov

sajaro diskusias jandacvis ministr

tikaraZesTan da vusvam

konkretul kiTxvebs: 1. ra gaake-

TeT ganvlil 6 TveSi jandacvis

sistemis epidemiis talRisTvis

mosamzadeblad da sad daixarja

kovidze mobilizebuli Tanxebi?

2. ratom gveRupeba adamianebi e.

w. kovidsastumroebSi da ratom

rCeba aseT sivrceebSi pacienti

yovelgvari samedicino zedamxedvelobis

gareSe? 3. ratom ver aawyveT

testireba-diagnostikis komponenti

qveyanaSi gasuli 6 Tve-

Si? 4. ratom ar muSaobs 112 da

saswrafo samedicino daxmarebis

komponenti qveyanaSi da ratom

uwevT moqalaqeebs saaTobiT lodini

saWiro samedicino daxmarebis

misaRebad? 5. ratom ar daiwyeT

jer kidev gazafxulze ojaxis

eqimebis masobrivi treningi da

momzadeba pacientebis binaze samarTavad?

6. ratom ar daiwyeT

molaparakeba kerZo seqtorTan

saWiro sawolfondisa da samedicino

personalis mobilizaciisa

da mosamzadeblad da ratom iwyebT

amaze fiqrs mxolod axla,

oqtomberSi, rodesac situacia

kontrolidan gageqcaT? 7. ra

gegema gaqvT epidemiis samarTavad?”

_ acxadebs sergo CixlaZe da

qalbaton tikaraZes mouwodebs,

rom konkretuli, droSi gawerili

da gansazRvrul indikatorebze

dafuZnebuli gegma warmoadginos.

Tumca jandacvis ministri, romelic

saswrafos 4-6-saaTian dagvianebas

normalurad miiCnevs, sergo

CixlaZis gamowvevas, jerjerobiT,

ar gamoxmaurebia da, didi

albaTobiT, arc gamoexmaureba.

zemoTqmulis garda, kidev ra

pretenziebi aqvs xelisuflebasTan

da rogor unda davaRwi-

oT Tavi koronapandemias? _

„qronika+” „strategia aRmaSeneb-

lis” gamsvleli proporciuli

siis wevrs, jandacvis eqspert

sergo CixlaZes esaubra:

_ sergo, Tqven, rogorc

eqsperti, saqarTveloSi kovidin-

ficirebulTa moulodnel reko-

rdul zrdas riT xsniT?

_ kovidinficirebulTa raodenoba

rekordulad imitom izrdeba,

rom kontrolis meqanizmi miSvebuli

iyo. Sesabamisad, infeqciam

erTbaSad ifeTqa. sxvaTa Soris,

jer kidev mart-aprilSi vsaubrobdiT,

rom saWiro iyo mwvave sadiagnostiko

qselis awyoba, radgan

erTi SemTxvevac ar gagvparvoda

da adamianTa izolacia droulad

mogvexdina. samwuxarod, es ar gakeTda

da dResac ki sul 22 laboratoriaa,

romelic testebis

Catarebas ver audis. erTi sityviT,

epidemiis winaaRmdeg brZolidan

drouli diagnostika, adamianTa

izolireba da saWiroebis

SemTxvevaSi, mkurnaloba amovardnilia.

Sesabamisad, inficirebul-

Ta cifrebic „gaiqca”. saerTod,

infeqcia sazogadoebaSi grovdeba,

anu akumulirdeba da gadadebis

maCvenebelic izrdeba. garda

amisa, saxelmwifoc modunda.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ zafxulis ganmavlobaSi wesebis

dacvaze erTi axali sainformacio

klipi mainc ginaxavT?

_ simarTle giTxraT, ara.

_ hoda, yvelaferi es imaze mianiSnebs,

rom mTavroba modunda

da daijera, rom marTla Zalian

magaria da korona daZlia. mokled,

sazogadoebasTan komunikaciisa

da informirebulobis

komponenti dairRva.

_ SeiZleba, magram samarTlianobisTvis

unda vTqvaT, koro-

naSemTxvevebi mxolod saqar-

TveloSi ki ara, mTel msoflio-

Si imatebs.

_ diax, magram igive evropaSi

koronaSemTxvevebi im fonze izrdeba,

roca ekonomika amoqmedebulia,

sazRvrebi ki _ gaxsnili. Cven-

Tan ki sazRvrebi Caketilia da,

miuxedavad amisa, saxelmwifos

pandemia mainc „gaeqca”. metic, cifrebiT

Tu vimsjelebT, erT sul

mosaxleze kovidinficirebuli

Cven ufro bevri gvyavs, vidre _

evropas an romelime sxva qveyanas.

_ aravin uaryofs, rom xelisufleba

koronas veRar akon-

trolebs, magram rogorc yvela

medals, koronamedalsac aqvs

meore mxare, anu xSiria SemTx-

vevebi, roca adamians koronas

udgenen, Tumca mere aRmoCndeba

xolme, rom es feik-dadasture-

baa. sxvaTa Soris, amis naTeli

magaliTia msaxiob nanka kalato-

ziSvilis arasruwlovani Svilis

SemTxveva _ bavSvs korona daudgines,

Tumca gairkva, rom diag-

nozi araswori iyo. hoda, bevri

fiqrobs, rom kovidstatistika

xelovnuradaa gaberili da yve-

laferi erTgvari politikuri

TamaSebia. am kuTxiT risi Tqma

SegiZliaT?

_ aseTi varaudi aqamdec gvqonda

da axlac gvaqvs, Tumca mTavrobis

logikidan amovideT.

_ anu?

_ mTeli am Tveebis ganmavlobaSi

mTavroba Tavs imiT iwonebda,

rom magari krizismenejeria,

epidemias marTavs da koronis 10-

15 SemTxvevaze meti TiTqos swored

amitomac ar gvqonda. aqedan

gamomdinare, arCevnebis win xelisuflebisTvis

koronaricxvebis

gazrda momgebiani araa. „ocnebisTvis”

momgebiani iqneboda, rom

statistika, vTqvaT, 200-mde gazrdiliyo,

Tumca xelisuflebas

eTqva, yvelafers isev vmarTavo,

magram amasobaSi sikvdilianobac

gaizarda da gardacvlilTa raodenoba

ukve asze metia. paralelurad,

klinikebi seriozuladaa

gadatvirTuli da igive aWaraSi

adgilebic aRaraa. amitom adamianebi,

romelTac kovidi udasturdebaT,

kovidsastumroebSi

gadahyavT. sxvaTa Soris, am kovidsastumroSi

41 wlis qali ise gardaicvala,

rom masze zedamxedvelobac

ar arsebobda.

simarTle giTxraT, statistikaSi

eWvi mec mepareba, radgan

sando araa, vis rodis testaven da

ra pasuxs eubnebian, anu iqiTken

vixrebi, rom SesaZloa, SemTxveva

bevrad metia, magram amasac Tavi

davaneboT da davuSvaT, rom

ityuebian da zedmet statistikas

aqveyneben, magram faqtia, rom

sikvdilianoba izrdeba da,

rogorc giTxariT, klinikebic

gadatvirTulia. yvelaferi es ki

mTavrobis interesSi ar Sedis.

_ sxvaTa Soris, zogs kiTxvis

niSnebi sikvdilianobis gazrdazec

aqvs. ai, magaliTad, samcxejavaxeTSi

gardacvlili erT-

erTi pacientis ojaxs ar sjera,

rom gardacvalebis mizezi korona

gaxda. mokled, arsebobs versia,

rom damZimebuli epidviTareba

postsaarCevno periods ukav-

Sirdeba, roca arCevnebis SedegebiT

ukmayofilo aTasobiT adami-

anma SesaZloa, quCaSi gamosvla

daapiros. xelisufleba ki am sap-

rotesto talRis SeCerebas im

sagangebo mdgomareobiT Seecdeba,

romelsac koronis sababiT ga-

moacxadebs...

_ geTanxmebiT, es gegma namdvilad

arsebobs, anu darwmunebuli

var, rom arCevnebis Semdeg

àrCevnebi 31 oqtobers unda Catardes, radgan

xelisufleba droulad Seicvalos da iseTi

movides, romelic jandacvis, ekonomikisa Tu

sxva mimarTulebiT rames realurad gaakeTebs!~

„ocneba” qveyanas marTla Caketavs,

magram am „SeTqmulebis Teorias”

mxolod im nawilSi ar viziareb,

ai, xelisuflebas awyobs

da dainficirebulTa ricxvs amitom

zrdiso. im epidviTarebiT,

rac dRes qveyanaSia, xelisufleba

mxardamWerebs kargavs. saer-

Tod, xelisuflebas cifrebiT

manipulireba SeuZlia, magram is

Tanmxlebi movlenebi, rac yvelafer

amas axlavs, manipulirebadi

araa.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ yvelas, miT umetes, maT, vinc

jandacvis sferoSi varT, saavadmyofoebTan,

klinikebsa da

eqimebTan kontaqti gvaqvs da viciT,

rom samedicino dawesebulebebi

gadatvirTulia, anu cifrebis

mogoneba SesaZlebelia, magram

arsebobs garkveuli indikatorebi,

romliTac realoba dgindeba.

_ mesmis, magram sergo, ratom

ar uSvebT albaTobas, rom klini-

kebSi yvela koviddadebiTi ki

araa, aramed zogs sezonuri gri-

pi sWirs?

_ gripis sezoni jer ar dawyebula...

_ Sors rom ar wavideT, ai, nika

gvaramiac werda socialur qsel-

Si, rom TbilisSi, kovidis garda,

sxva umZimesi virusicaa modebu-

li...

_ sezonuri gripi oqtombris

bolos iwyeba, piks noembris bolos

an dekemberSi aRwevs. mokled,

ver vityvi, rom is, rac klinikebSi

xdeba, mogonilia.

_ hoda, Tu viTareba, mar-

Tlac, aseTi dramatulia, xe-

lisufleba mkacr RonisZiebebs

ratom ar atarebs?

_ „ocnebas” unda, rom viTareba

rogorme 31 oqtombramde

miagoros, mere ki qveyana daketos.

sxvaTa Soris, sxva mimarTulebi-

Tac waval.

_ romeli mimarTulebiT, ser-

go?

_ xelisufleba Tavs imiTac

aRar imarTlebda, ekonomika ratom

ver gamarTa an samuSao adgilebi

ratom ver Seqmna. misi er-

TaderTi koziri is iyo, rom korona

kargad marTa. am koziris

gaSveba mis interesebSi ar Sedioda

da asec hqonda Cafiqrebuli,

rom oqtombris bolos inficirebulTa

raodenoba gaizrdeboda

da sanam sazogadoeba gonze mov-

28

28 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


koronaSemTxvevebi bevrad metia!~

doda da ityoda, xelisuflebas

korona, Turme, kargad ver umar-

Tavso, arCevnebi „ocnebisTvis” xelsayrel

pirobebSi Catadeboda,

magram iciT, ra xdeba?

_ ra?

_ korona „ocnebas” azrs ar

ekiTxeba da, aqedan gamomdinare,

epidsituacia ufro adre afeTqda,

vidre xelisufleba elodeboda.

ise, mTavrobaSi mec rom viyo,

ra Tqma unda, bolomde vecdebodi,

rom zemoxsenebuli koziri SemenarCunebina,

miT umetes, viciT,

rom „ocneba” Tavis karg krizismenejerobaSi

sazogadoebis did

nawils ajerebda.

_ asea Tu ise, politikur

wreebSi TandaTan mwifdeba azri,

rom arCevnebi unda gadaidos.

saqme saqmeze rom midges,

arCevnebis gadadebas „strategia

aRmaSenebelic” dauWers mxars?

_ ara! arCevnebi ar unda gadaidos.

es azri, Tu ar meSleba,

„lelom” gaaJRera da Tavisi reitingidan

gamomdinare, SeiZleba,

ukmayofiloa da fiqrobs,

arCevnebis gadadeba ukeTesiao,

Tan fuladi resursebis problemac

ar aqvs da, albaT, urCevnia,

kampania gaagrZelos da arCevnebi

mogvianebiT Catardes, magram

arCevnebi ratom unda gadaidos?

_ imitom unda gadaidos, rom

qveyanaSi sagangaSo epidsitua-

ciaa.

_ gasagebia, magram arCevnebi

rom gadaidos, ra, „ocneba” rames

gaakeTebs da erTi Tvis mere

ukeTesoba iqneba? diaxac, arCevnebi

31 oqtobers unda Catardes,

radgan xelisufleba droulad

Seicvalos da iseTi movides,

romelic jandacvis, ekonomikisa

Tu sxva mimarTulebiT rames realurad

gaakeTebs!

_ xelisuflebis Secvlis

winaaRmdegi aravinaa, magram 31

oqtombers saarCevno ubnebze,

sadac uamravi adamiani iqneba,

koronausafrTxoebis

zomebs

rogor davicavT?

_ ki batono, magram saarCevno

ubnebze Tu sadezinfeqcio saSualeba

iqneba da xalxi niRbebiT

miva, es didi riski araa.

_ sxvaTa Soris, 31-Si saar-

Cevno ubnebze sicxes ar gagvizomaven,

anu masobrivi Termosk-

riningi ar iqneba.

_ es Termoskriningi isedac

„truxa” raRacaa da masze didi

warmodgena arasodes mqonia, Tumca

saarCevno ubnebze usafrTxoebis

wesebis dacva martivia. mokled,

arCevnebis CatarebaSi did

problemas ver vxedav da, weRandeli

Tqmisa ar iyos, arCevnebi

romc gadaidos, xelisufleba

mainc verafers gaakeTebs, Tan

isic aravin icis, koronavirusi

CvenTan ramden xans darCeba.

_ problemas verc imaSi xe-

davT, rom 19 oqtombridan

umaRles saswavleblebSi swavla

auditoriebSi ganaxlda?

_ arCevnebze erTmniSvnelovani

azri maqvs _ ar unda gadaidos.

swavlis auditoriebSi dawyebas ki

ufro frTxilad mivudgebodi.

_ ratom?

_ sanam koronavirusis SemTxvevebis

aseTi maRali cifrebi gva-

`statistikaSi eWvi mec mepareba, radgan sando araa, vis rodis testaven da

ra pasuxs eubnebian, anu iqiTken vixrebi, rom SesaZloa, SemTxveva bevrad

metia, magram amasac Tavi davaneboT da davuSvaT, rom ityuebian da zedmet

statistikas aqveyneben, magram faqtia, rom sikvdilianoba izrdeba da,

rogorc giTxariT, klinikebic gadatvirTulia. yvelaferi es ki mTavrobis

interesSi ar Sedis~

qvs, swavlis auditoriebSi ganaxlebisgan

Tavs Sevikavebdi.

_ ise, Tqveni dakvirvebiT, koronis

meore talRa saqarTvelo-

Si rodemde gagrZeldeba?

_ amis Tqma zustad aravis Seu-

Zlia, magram aseTi maRali cifrebi,

albaT, ori-sami Tve iqneba, miT

umetes, rom amas sezonuri gripic

daerTveba, rac damatebiT

problemas Seqmnis. erTi sityviT,

gazafxulamde, albaT, rTuli

situacia iqneba.

_ masobrivi Tu ara, lokaluri

„lokdaunebis” momxre xarT?

_ yvelanairi Caketvisa da „lokdaunis”

winaaRmdegi var, Tumca

seqtoruli SezRudvebi SesaZlebelia,

magram amaze xelisufleba

ar saubrobs. sxvaTa Soris, jer

kidev seqtembris dasawyisSi vki-

TxulobdiT, vTqvaT, yoveldRe

asi SemTxvevis dros ra SeizRudeboda

da ra _ ara.

_ xelisuflebam restornebsa

da gasarTob centrebs 22:00 saa-

Tis mere muSaoba ukve aukrZala.

_ gaxarias, albaT, aravin uTxra,

rom gasarTobi centrebi didi

xania, daxurulia. amasTan, am gaWirvebis

fonze restornebSi jgufurad

siarulic didi xania, ar

minaxavs. problemac swored egaa,

rom xelisuflebas gegma ar gaaCnia,

koronavirusis SemTxvevebis

matebisas ra unda gaakeTos. ai,

magaliTad, germaniaSi yvela municipalitetma,

qalaqma Tu federalurma

mTavrobam zustad icis,

rom Tu asi aTass mosaxleze

35 da meti axali SemTxveva iqneba,

maSin garkveuli tipis SezRudvebi

unda daawesos. 50 da met SemTxvevaze

es SezRudvebi kidev ufro

gamkacrdeba da a. S., anu yvela

niSnulze sxvadasxva SezRudva

arsebobs, romlisTvisac ucxoeT-

Si mxolod mTavrobebi ki ara,

xalxic momzadebulia. CvenTan ki

msgavsi araferi arsebobs da mTavrobas

swored amas veubnebiT,

Tqvas, ra niSnulze rogor viqceviT.

rac unda moxdes, transporti

ar unda aikrZalos, magram is

mainc unda daregulirdes, rom

samarSrutoSi adamianebi fexze ar

idgnen. msgavsi raRacebi Zalian

martivi gasakontrolebelia.

_ obieqturobisTvis unda vTq-

vaT, rom bolo ramdenime dRea,

metrosadgurebTan policia dgas

da koronawesebis dacvisken mou-

wodebs xalxs, vTqvaT, visac ar

aqvs, pirbades aZlevs da a. S....

àmiran gamyreliZem 4 oqtombers Tqva, ojaxis

eqimebis gadamzadebis piloturi programa guSin

daviwyeTo. amaze martidan vlaparakobT da

piloturi programa oqtomberSi unda daewyoT?~

_ amis gakeTeba manamdec xom

SeiZleboda, sanam dReSi aTasze

meti SemTxveva gveqneboda?

_ albaT, SeiZleboda, magram

aqamde Tbilisi mwavne zonad iTv-

leboda, sergo.

_ es Zalian mcdari Sexedulebaa,

anu roca SemTxvevebi gaizrdeba,

zomebi maSin unda gavamkacroT?

amiran gamyreliZem 4 oqtombers

Tqva, ojaxis eqimebis gadamzadebis

piloturi programa

guSin daviwyeTo. amaze martidan

vlaparakobT da piloturi programa

oqtomberSi unda daewyoT?

xelisuflebam isic Tqva, sawolfondis

mobilizebisTvis 48 milioni

lari gamovyaviTo, magram es

axla ki ara, roca adgilebi aRaraa,

aramed martsa da aprilSi unda

gakeTebuliyo. problemis gamosworebaze

fiqrs problemis gaCenis

Semdeg rom iwyeben, ai, swored

esaa mavne da mcdari menejmenti!

_ sergo, gasagebia, rom xe-

lisuflebis koronamenejmenti

mavnea, magram „strategia aR-

maSenebeli” moqalaqeebs ras

gvirCevs, rogor unda moviqceT,

rom koronas gadavurCeT?

_ infeqciis kontrolisTvis

ori ZiriTadi gza arsebobs:

swrafi gamovlena, anu diagnostika

da inficirebulis izolireba

an misi samkurnalo dawesebuleba-

Si gadayvana. amitom farTomasStabiani

sadiagnostiko qseli mTeli

qveynis masStabiT unda aewyos,

raTa meti adamianis testireba da

diagnostireba moxdes. sxvaTa

Soris, saqarTvelos mcire mosaxleobidan

gamomdinare, amis gakeTeba

Zalian martivadaa Sesa-

Zlebeli. garda amisa, saswrafod

unda Seivsos yvelanairi maragi,

samedicino personalis damcavi

ekipirebidan dawyebuli, testebiT

damTavrebuli.

paralelurad, kerZo seqtor-

Tan unda daiwyos molaparakeba.

_ raze?

_ damatebiTi sawolfondis

mobilizebaze. isic mavne praqtikaa,

xelisufleba rom ambobs, koronaSemTxvevebis

zrda Cemi brali

ki araa, xalxma regulaciebi

daarRviao. arada, sinamdvileSi,

xalxs araferi daurRvevia. xalxi

ise iqceva, rasac eubnebian!

_ medikosebi gvafrTxileben,

pirbade atareT da distancia

daicaviTo, magram gulwrfelad

vTqvaT, rom umetesoba arc dis-

tancias vicavT da pirbadesac

koronamodisTvis, nikapze va-

tarebT. ho, marTla: iziarebT

gaxarias Segonebas, rom pirbadis

tareba patriotizmia?

_ pirbadis tareba patriotizmi

ki ara, daxurul sivrceSi Cveulebrivi

rekomendaciaa. saerTod,

es sadRegrZeloebi da raRacebi

TavianTTvis Seinaxon da amas jobia,

saqme gaakeTon! ise, Tu pirbadis

tarebazea laparaki, weRandeli

Tqmisa ar iyos, mTeli zafxuli

ise gavida, erTi sainformacio

bukleti ar gamouciaT da adamianebisTvis

ar uTqvamT, ra da

rogor unda gaakeTon.

samwuxarod Tu sabednierod,

martis mere araferi Secvlila,

anu rekomendaciebi igivea _

konkretul adgilebSi pirbadis

tareba, xelebis xSiri dabana da

Sesabamisma uwyebebma isic unda

uzrunvelyon, rom dawesebulebebs

dezobarierebi Tu antiseptikuri

xsnarebi hqondeT!

garda amisa, samedicino personalis

_ eqimebisa da eqTnebis _

gadamzadebac aucilebelia, radgan

rac SeiZleba meti resursis

mobilizeba SevZloT. reanimatologebis,

infeqcionistebisa

Tu kargi kvalifikaciis Terapevtebis

kuTxiT isedac SezRudulebi

varT.

_ ra amis pasuxia da, aravin

icis, kovidfondSi akumulirebuli

milionobiT Tanxa sad daix-

arja. „strategia aRmaSenebeli”

am fondis Seswavlas xom ar

moiTxovs?

_ diax, am fondis Seswavla

aucilebelia, miT umetes, maqvs

informacia, rom fondidan Tanxebi

aramiznobrivad daixarja,

Tumca am informacias, jerjerobiT,

vamowmeb. sxvaTa Soris, laparaki

mxolod am fondze ki ara,

biujetidan gamoyofil Tanxazecaa.

ai, magaliTad, kovidTan sabrZolvelad

jandacvis biujeti

242 milioniT gaizarda. amasTan,

ucxoeli partniorebisgan ramdenime

miliardis daxmareba mivi-

ReT, saidanac miliard larze meti

jandacvis sistemis gasaZlierebladaa

gankuTvnili, magram

gaurkvevelia, es fuli sad wavida

_ saxarji masalebisa da testebis

deficiti gvaqvs, eqimebis treningic

ar Catarebula da sawolfondze

damatebiTi Tanxac axla

gamoiyo. verc imaze miviReT informacia,

ramdeni damatebiTi

sasunTqi aparati Semovida.

yvelafer amis paralelurad,

kovidTan brZolis pirvel xazze

myofi samedicino personali xelfasebs

ver iRebs. warmogidgeniaT,

ra xdeba?! eqimebisa da eqTnebis

xelfasi, umetesad, 300-dan

500-laramdea, anu mizerul Tanxebzea

laparaki da am dros aravin

icis, zemoxsenebuli milionebi

sad wavida.

mokled, am kuTxiT seriozuli

kiTxvebi arsebobs da pasuxismgebel

pirebsac seriozuli pasuxebis

gacema mouwevT!

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

29


ès aSkarad marTuli

giorgi lobJaniZe mwerali da

giorgi abaSiZe

aRmosavleTmcodnea. rom giTxraT,

politika ar ainteresebs-

meTqi, mogatyuebT, magram arc politikaSi ereva da arc _

politikur gancxadebebs akeTebs xolme, Tumca, rogorc

ityvian, xaTri veRar gamitexa da sakmaod vrcel interviuSi

ramdenime politikur kiTxvazec mipasuxa. ise, vin-vin da,

giorgi lobJaniZem Zalian kargad icis, rom saqarTvelosTvis

ukeTesi iqneboda, ruseTi Cveni mezobeli rom ar iyos, magram...

am realobis Secvla ar SegviZlia, anu rogorc ityvi-

an, „aq vdgavarT da sxvagvarad ar ZalgviZs”. amitom, rogorc

giorgi ambobs, realobas Tvali unda gavusworoT da raki

ruseTi Cveni mezobelia, amis gamo ar unda movdundeT!

saerTod, bevri ramis gamo

ar unda movdundeT. ai, magal-

iTad, Tundac imitom ar unda

movdundeT, rom koronam ar

wagvlekos. aseve moduneba,

ufro sworad, Tvalis daxuW-

va arc imaze SeiZleba, rom

Cvens qveyanaSi wignis mimarT

interesi TandaTan ufro ikargeba

da simarTles Tvali gavusworoT

da vTqvaT _ gaunaTlebloba

lamis ukve erovnuli

tragediaa! hoda, am Temebze

saubrisas Cems respon-

dents vkiTxe, koronainfeqcia

ufro saSiSia Tu gaunaTlebloba-meTqi?

mweralma mkvi-

rcxlad momigo, orive da arc

erTio. CavekiTxe, es rogor-

meTqi?

„orive, ase Tu ise, mkurnalobas

eqvemdebareba. saer-

Tod, saSiSi yvelaferi isaa,

rasac xels miuSveb, rasac

kritikulad da Semoqmedebi-

Tad aRar miudgebi: gind xor-

cieli Wiri iyos da gind _

sulieri”.

mokled, bevri rom aRar

gavagrZelo, girCevT, winamdebare

interviu guldasmiT waikiTxoT

da garkveuli das-

kvnebic gamoitanoT:

_ giorgi, rogor xar?

_ vcdilob, kargad viyo da

ar avyve im sayovelTao sigiJeebs,

rac axla, lamis, mTel

msoflioSi trialebs.

_ am gadareul cxovrebaSi

mwerlis cxovreba rTulia Tu

martivi?

_ roca sayrdeni gaqvs, amas

adamiani Znelad, magram mainc

moaxerxeb.

_ da sayrdeni Tu gaqvs?

_ Cemi sayrdeni Cemi saqme da

adamianebis siyvarulia. aseve

rwmena, rom am samyaros didi

kanonzomiereba _ sikeTe da samarTlianoba

marTavs.

_ kargia, imedianad rom xar,

magram dRevandel saqarTveloSi

mwerals sakuTari pro-

fesiiT cxovreba, e. i., ojaxis

Senaxva SeuZlia?

_ ra Tqma unda, ara, Tumca

mxolod saqarTveloSi ki ara,

es mTel msoflioSic asea.

_ anu rogor?

_ mwerloba Semosavliani

profesia arasodes yofila, magram

isec arasodes momxdara,

rogorc axlaa.

_ da axla rogoraa?

_ literatura mTlianad hobis

donezea darCenili.

_ mxolod hobis doneze ki

araa darCenili, mwerloba

dums. arada, mwerali, wesiT,

garemoebis sayviria. bolo

dros qveynisTvis aqtualur

sakiTxebze sakuTar pozicias

Zalian cota kalmosani gamo-

Tqvams. am dumils riT xsni?

_ ver vityodi, rom mwerloba

dums. piriqiT, mwerlebi

Zalian aqtiurad erevian yvela

sazogadoebriv problemaSi da

Cven Soris iseTebic arian,

romlebic am problemebSi TaviT

eSvebian da, lamis, sakuTari

saqmec ki daiviwyon. ubralod,

maT laparaks, samwuxarod,

aRaravin aqcevs yuradRebas. is,

rom ar vdumvarT, amis magali-

Ti SeiZleba, es interviuc

iyos, magram mere ra?!

_ mere is, rom Sens xmas sa-

zogadoeba gaigebs da viRac

mainc gaiTvaliswinebs mas. sae-

rTod, mwerloba politikaa

Tu ara?

_ didi azriT, rasakvirvelia,

mwerlobac iseTive politikaa,

rogorc sxva yvelaferi

danarCeni.

_ giorgi, ra amis pasuxia

da, aRmosavleTmcodne xar.

kiTxva, romelsac axla dagis-

vam, SesaZloa, pirdapir Sens

profesias ar ukavSirdeba, ma-

gram bolo dros axlo aRmosavleTi,

ufro zustad, samxr-

eT kavkasia, cxeli wertilia _

somxeT-azerbaijanis ganaxle-

bul konfliqts vgulisxmob.

mokled, rogoria Seni winaTgrZnoba

_ es konfliqti far-

TomasStabian omSi xom ar gadaizrdeba,

romelSic saqarT-

veloc iqneba CaTreuli?

_ Cemi azriT, es konfliqti,

mTeli misi simwvavis miuxedavad,

farTomasStabian omSi ar

unda gadaizardos.

_ damisabuTe, ase ratom

fiqrob?

_ am konfliqts sul sxva warmmarTveli

hyavs, romelsac

dasustebuli kavkasia unda, magram

bolomde daqceuli arc

somxeTi awyobs da arc _ sabolood

gaCanagebuli azerbaijani.

amitom is yovelmxriv Seecdeba,

rom konfliqti dakonservdes

da didmasStabian ngrevaSi

ar gadaizardos.

sxvaTa Soris, saqarTveloc

mudmivad im saSiSroebaze unda

hyavdes gamobmuli, rom ara mxolod

es konfliqti, aramed,

saerTod, yvelanairi negatiuri

situacia mis teritoriaze

gaavrcelos. ubralod, Cven

Wkua unda gveyos, rom Tu SegveZleba,

am konfliqtis mogvarebaSi

sikeTiT CaverioT, magram

ar davuSvaT, rom aRmovCndeT

mxare da Cveni neitraliteti

davTmoT.

giorgi lobJaniZe:

`kanonis winaSe

yvela religiuri

institucia

erTnairad

pasuxismgebeli

da valdebuli

unda iyos!~

_ „sxva warmmarTvelSi,” al-

baT, ruseTs gulisxmob. hoda,

aqve CagekiTxebi: ruseTi Cveni

mezobeli rom ar iyos, saqa-

rTvelosTvis ukeTesi xom ar

iqneboda?

_ eh, zogjer ocneba ra kargia...

netav, marTlac, ase yofiliyo,

magram... yovelTvis realobidan

unda amovideT. realoba

ki isaa, rom ruseTi Cveni

mezobelia da es modunebis

saSualebas arasodes mogvcems.

àr minda, usamarTlo da umaduri viyo da

vityvi, rom am xnis ganmavlobaSi bevri ram

gakeTda (iseve rogorc bevri ram kargi

gakeTda saakaSvilis mTavrobis pirobebSic),

magram faqti isaa, rom im sistemur

problemebTan gamklaveba, romelTac Cveni

qveynisTvis sasicocxlo safrTxe SeiZleba

Seqmnan, jerjerobiT, verc òcnebam~ moaxerxa

da rac mTavaria, ucvleli darCa ZiriTadi

sakiTxebi, ramac saakaSvilis mTavrobasTan

Cemi, rogorc am qveynis moqalaqis, yvelaze

didi gaucxoeba gamoiwvia~

_ ocnebaze gamaxsenda: Tu

ar meSleba, Tavis droze, „ocnebis”

mxardamWeri iyavi. „oc-

nebam” Seni imedi da ocneba

gaamarTla?

_ arc erTi politikuri

partia ise ar mainteresebs,

rom romelimes zRvargadasuli

mxardamWeri viyo, Tumca vinmes

mimarT iseTi akviatebuli ziz-

Ri da miuRebloba arc winaswar

maqvs, rom mosvlisTanave lan-

ZRva davuwyo da megonos, rom

igi qveynis dasaqcevadaa movlenili.

saerTod, Zalian frTxili

adamiani var da mxardaWerasac

yovelTvis frTxilad

gamovxatav, Tumca Cemi bunebidan

gamomdinare, Tavidan

siaxleebs upirobod vendobi

xolme. yovel SemTxvevaSi, aqamde

imis, rasac adamiani, ara

mxolod saarCevno dapirebebisas,

aramed pirispir, erTi er-

Tze meubneboda, yovelTvis

mjeroda. mjera adamianis ke-

Tili nebisa da Tavs uflebas

ar vaZlev xolme, rom viTarebis

gaumjobesebisa da cxovrebis

Secvlis keTilSobiluri da

sruliad bunebrivi survilebi,

merkantiluri mosazrebebiT

nakarnaxev martiv vireSmakobad

miviCnio! amitom Tavidan arc

aravis, arc erTi politikuri

Zalis mowinaaRmdege ar var,

sanam TviTon misi gakeTebuli

an gafuWebuli saqmeebi sapirispiroSi

ar damarwmunebs.

_ es gavige, magram „ocneb-

is” mxardamWeri iyavi Tu ara?

_ „ocneba” Zalian didi da

mkafio dapirebebiT movida im

fonze, roca wina mTavrobam

Cemi ndobisa da moTminebis yovelgvari

resursi amowura. aq

mxolod martiv Secdomebs ar

vgulisxmob.

_ aba, kidev ras gulisxmob?

_ saqme ise midioda, rom

mTeli mTavroba lamis sistem-

30

30 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


politikuri procesia...~

am konfliqts sul sxva warmmarTveli hyavs, romelsac dasustebuli kavkasia

unda, magram bolomde daqceuli arc somxeTi awyobs da arc sabolood

gaCanagebuli azerbaijani. amitom is yovelmxriv Seecdeba, rom konfliqti

dakonservdes da didmasStabian ngrevaSi ar gadaizardos.

sxvaTa Soris, saqarTveloc mudmivad im saSiSroebaze unda hyavdes

gamobmuli, rom ara mxolod es konfliqti, aramed, saerTod, yvelanairi

negatiuri situacia mis teritoriaze gaavrcelos~

ur damnaSaved iqca, Torem Secdoma

yvelas mosdis da ra gasakviria,

bevri ram maSindel prezidentsac

SeSloda, romelic

Tavisi yovlad umsgavsi garemocvis

wyalobiT (rac aseve misi

didi Secdoma iyo), sabolood,

mTel am simaxinjesTan pirispir

Setovebuli aRmoCnda da

im idealisti miSasagan, rogorsac

Tavidan aRviqvamdi da

momwonda kidec, praqtikulad,

aRaraferi darCa.

amitomac, bunebrivad moxda,

rom me, rogorc erTma adamianma,

am qveynis erTma moqalaqem,

romelsac politikuri sinamdvilis

gardaqmna, sxvaTa

Soris, sulac ar SeuZlia, wina

mTavrobasTan nebismieri saxis

TanamSromlobaze uari vTqvi

da im axali Zalis gverdiT davdeqi,

romelic mjeroda, rom

mTeli am Seqmnili problemebis

mogvarebaze seriozulad

izrunebda.

ar minda, usamarTlo da umaduri

viyo da vityvi, rom am

xnis ganmavlobaSi bevri ram

gakeTda (iseve rogorc bevri

ram kargi gakeTda saakaSvilis

mTavrobis pirobebSic), magram

faqti isaa, rom im sistemur

problemebTan gamklaveba, romelTac

Cveni qveynisTvis sasicocxlo

safrTxe SeiZleba Seqmnan,

jerjerobiT, verc „ocnebam”

moaxerxa da rac mTavaria,

ucvleli darCa ZiriTadi

sakiTxebi, ramac saakaSvilis

mTavrobasTan Cemi, rogorc am

qveynis moqalaqis, yvelaze didi

gaucxoeba gamoiwvia.

_ da es ra sakiTxebia?

_ saqarTvelosa da misi bunebis

gaCanageba, msoflios veluri

kapitalizmis oligarqiuli

klanebis interesTa gaTvaliswinebiT,

qveynis sasicocxlo

sivrcis mospoba (saydrisi

da hesebi); qarTuli soflis

ngrevisa da gaCanagebis xelSewyoba

Tu ara, am procesisaTvis

winaaRmdegobis gawevis usurviloba

Tu uunaroba; qveynis

saerTaSoriso ganviTarebis

strategiis uqonloba da, saer-

Tod, warumatebeli saerTaSoriso

politika; adamianis, rogorc

umTavresi Rirebulebis,

arsebiTi upativcemuloba, rac

Tundac misTvis saTanado Sromis

pirobebisa da samuSao adgilebis

arSeqmnaSi gamoixateba;

sistemuri korufcia, romli-

Tac profesionalizmisa da

profesionalTa ugulebelyofa

naTesauri da finansuri

klanebisaTvis sasurveli xelis

biWebis sasargeblod xdeba

da a. S.

_ sxvaTa Soris, amas winaT

socialur qselSi ixumre, mamao

atarebs pradoso, anu sa-

interesoa, mwerali giorgi

lobJaniZe qarTul eklesiaSi

ra problemebs xedavs da xom

ar fiqrob, rom axali ruis-

urbnisia saWiro?

_ ideurad var marTlmadidebeli

qristiani, magram vinaidan

Tavs ukve didi xania am

(aseTi!) eklesiis wevrad aRar

miviCnev, amitomac arc iq arsebul

im problemebze vilaparakeb,

rasac Soridan vxedav.

saerTod, CemTvis problema

rwmenis politizeba da, miT

umetes, rwmenis safuZvelze

adamianTa socialuri segregaciaa,

Tumca yvelaferi es TiTqmis

yvela religiis, ara _ rogorc

msoflmxedvelobrvi si-

stemis, aramed, rogorc Camoyalibebuli

instituciisTvisaa

damaxasiaTebeli da amitomac

am instituciebTan axlos gakarebis

survili aRar maqvs. rac

Seexeba kiTxvis meore nawils,

ruis-urbnisi ki ara, dRes

samoqalaqo kanonis uzenaesobis

saWiroebaa.

_ kerZod?

_ kanonis winaSe yvela aRmsareblobis

adamiani da, miT umetes,

yvela religiuri institucia

erTnairad pasuxismgebeli

da valdebuli unda iyos!

`saqme ise midioda, rom mTeli mTavroba lamis

sistemur damnaSaved iqca, Torem Secdoma

yvelas mosdis da ra gasakviria, bevri ram

maSindel prezidentsac SeSloda, romelic

Tavisi yovlad umsgavsi garemocvis wyalobiT

(rac aseve misi didi Secdoma iyo), sabolood,

mTel am simaxinjesTan pirispir Setovebuli

aRmoCnda da im idealisti miSasagan, rogorsac

Tavidan aRviqvamdi da momwonda kidec,

praqtikulad, aRaraferi darCa~

_ gasagebia, rom eklesiis

problemebze saubari ar ginda,

magram daviTgarejis saqmeze

ra azris xar _ es politikuri

procesia Tu, realu-

rad, samSoblos Ralati?

_ samwuxarod, detalebSi kargad

ver verkvevi. erTi, rac

SemiZlia vTqva, es aSkarad mar-

Tuli politikuri procesia,

romelic marTuli kia, magram,

realurad, mas arc azerbaijani

warmarTavs da arc _ saqarTvelo.

_ aba, vin warmarTavs?

_ orive es qveyana mxolod

saTamaSo Tojinad Cans im Zalis

(an Zalebis) xelSi, visac am

Temis ase gamwvaveba swadia.

_ SesaZloa, arc uamisobaa,

magram, rogor fiqrob, daviT-

garejis Temis gaaqtiureba

azerbaijanTan, romelic Cveni

strategiuli

partnioria,

urTierTobas xom ar gagvi-

rTulebs?

_ Tu igive kiTxvas saqarTvelosTan

mimarTebiT azerbaijanic

dasvams, maSin urTier-

Tobac aRar garTuldeba. saer-

Tod, partnioroba, keTilmezobloba

da keTilganwyoba ormxrivi

cnebaa da yvelaferi es

mxareTa keTilgonierebaze, ke-

Til nebasa da samarTlianobis

SegrZnebaze igeba. nebismier

urTierTobaSi SeuZlebelia,

mudam erTi Tmobdes meoris

sasargeblod da amas Tundac

imiT amarTlebdes, viTarebis

gamwvavebas veridebio. kargi

isaa, rom azerbaijanTan, Cven

mTeli istoriis ganmavlobaSi

SeiaraRebuli konfliqti arasodes

gvqonia da es orive mxares

bevr rames gvavaldebulebs

da gveubneba, yvelaferi es

orive qveynis sibrZnesa da siyvarulze

metyvelebs.

_ giorgi, politikas Tavi

gavaneboT da miTxari, Seni

azriT, sazogadoeba wigns ratom

daSorda _ amis mizezi mZ-

ime socialur-ekonomikuri

mdgomareobaa Tu Tanamedrove

teqnologiebi?

_ ra Tqma unda, orive er-

Tad.

_ ufro konkretulad?

_ didubeSi gavla-gamovla

xSirad miwevs xolme da swored

Cems avtobusebis gaCerebasTan

iseTi bukinisturi wignebi iyideba,

romlebzedac bavSvoba-

Si vocnebobdi, magram versad

vSoulobdi. maSin wignze finansurad

yvelas miuwvdeboda

xeli, magram arc amdeni kargi

wigni iyo da arc _ am wignebis

martivad yidvis saSualeba.

dRes xalxi am saukeTeso gamocemebTan,

romelebic kapikebad,

pirdapir Sua quCaSi yria,

midi-modis da yuradRebasac

aRar aqcevs mas. mesmis, rom adamians,

rodesac im alternativis

winaSe dgeba, Tu ra unda

iyidos _ puri Tu wigni _ arCevani,

praqtikulad, ar aqvs, magram

verc imas vityvi, ra ufro

Znelia _ sulieri Tu xorcieli

SimSili da am SimSiliT

nel-nela mtanjveli kvdoma...

_ agresias, romelic dRes

sazogadoebaSia, riT xsni?

_ gaunaTleblobiTa da sixarbiT!

gaunaTlebloba ganapirobebs,

rom adamians cxovrebiseuli

prioritetebi arasworad

aqvs dalagebuli. sixarbe

ki yoveli mankierebis Tavia.

amitomac gveubneba saxareba

ase dabejiTebiT: sZlie sixarbesa

Sensa.

_ iqneb, eri daberda da yve-

la ubedureba amitom gvWirs?

_ aseTi azric aris, magram

ar mgonia, swori iyos.

_ ratom?

_ erebisaTvis „sibere” didi

simdidrecaa _ goniereba, sibrZne

da sxva siRrmiseul

Rirebulebze orientacia.

_ ise, korona ufro saSiSia

Tu gaunaTlebloba?

_ orive da arc erTi.

_ es rogor?

_ orive, ase Tu ise, mkurnalobas

eqvemdebareba. saSiSi

yvelaferi isaa, rasac xels

miuSveb, rasac kritikulad da

SemoqmedebiTad aRar miudgebi:

gind xorcieli Wiri iyos da

gind _ sulieri.

_ bolos, giorgi, ra gaqvs

saTqmeli politikur eli-

tasTan?

_ ratomRac, cnobili rusuli

fraza maxsendeba, magram vinaidan

uxamsoba ar miyvars da

Tavs am tipis frazebze maRla

vayeneb, amitom isev biblias,

„eklesiastes” maradiul sibr-

Znes gavixseneb: „naTesavi movals

da naTesavi warvals da

qveyanai hgies ukunisamde”.

_ warmatebebs gisurveb,

giorgi!

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

31


àm qveyanaSi mxolod uCa

opozicia amtkicebs, rom xe-

Sorena marsagiSvili

lisufleba arCevnebs gaayalbebs.

599 92 16 22

amis miuxedavad, is darwmunebulia,

rom „qarTul ocnebas” Zalaufleb-

is gadabareba mouwevs. biZina ivaniSvils opoziciaSi rom mouwevs

gadasvla, amaSi arc „nacionaluri moZraobis” warmomadgenel

Saqro terteraSvils epareba eWvi. is imaSic darwmunebulia, rom

„ocnebas” mxardamWerebi ukve 31 oqtombris saRamos aqceven

zurgs. optimisturi prognozis gakeTebis sababs mas xalxis gan-

wyoba aZlevs. ambobs, rom 5-6 sofeli rom moiaro kaxeTSi,

mmarTveli partiis mxardamWers ver naxav. Tu vinme mainc aRmoCn-

da iseTi, is sabiujeto organizaciaSia dasaqmebuli.

rodis apirebda „qarTuli

ocneba” daviTgarejis Temaze

skandalis agorebas? ratom iC-

qares am Temis gaaqtiureba? aris

Tu ara maT arsenalSi skan-

daluri Canawerebi? vin moipova

saqarTveloSi Tavisufleba?

ratom ar nanobs „nacionaluri

moZraoba” baTumSi aqciis gama-

rTvas? _ am Temebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+”-s Saqro terteraS-

vili esaubreba:

_ batono Saqro, 16 oqtomb-

ers gaerTianebulma opozicia

„Zala erTobaSiam” baTumSi

xalxmravali aqcia gamarTeT.

sakmaod bevri xalxi gamovida

gareT, imdeni, rom tv „imedmac”

ki SeimCnia. koronapandemiis

dros aseTi aqciis gamarTva Sei-

Zleboda? Tan aqciis monawi-

leebs pirbadeebi ar ekeTaT.

gaqvT imis garantia, rom „ocne-

ba” epidafeTqebas opozicias ar

daabralebs?

_ amis garantia rogor gveqneba?

yvelafers Cven gvabraleben

da Tu qveyanaSi epidviTareba

gauaresda, amasac Cven dagvabraleben.

arada, qveyanaSi korona

Cvens aqciamde karga xniT adre

gaxda umarTavi. Cveni brali mxolod

isaa, rom am aqciis dros

saTanado sifrTxile ar gamovi-

CineT da yvelas ar movTxoveT

pirbadeebis gakeTeba.

_ aseT dros sifrTxile

rogor ar gamoiCineT?

_ ase gamovida. gulwrfelad

vityvi, rom vwuxvar amis gamo. xelisufleba

axla Cvenken gamoiSvers

xels. maTTvis amis sababi ar

unda migveca. miT umetes, rom

aWaraSi epidsituaciis afeTqeba

„qarTuli ocnebis” damsaxurebaa.

kovidis dros bevri xalxis

Sekrebis tradiciasac mmarTvelma

partiam da biZina ivaniSvilma

Cauyares safuZveli.

mTeli zafxuli vuyurebdiT,

Tu rogor mihyavdaT regionebidan

xalxi dendrologiuri

parkis dasaTvaliereblad. sazogadoebas

aCvenebdnen, ai, ra

magar rameebs akeTebs biZinao. es

yvelaferi xelisuflebis mier

organizebuli iyo. meeWveba,

mTel saqarTvelos erTad gasCenoda

survili, dendrologiuri

parki daeTvalierebina. waiyvanes

xalxi dendrologiurSi da imas

umtkicebdnen, rom es kaci marTla

xeglejia ki ar iyo, aramed

raRac sanaxaoba Seqmnao.

dendrologiur parkSi namdvili

zedaxora iyo. opoziciis

aqcia sul raRac erTi saaTi

gagrZelda, dendologiurSi

xalxi saaTobiT elodeboda, Tu

rodis Sevidodnen parkSi. arc

pirbadeebi hkeTebia vinmes. ase

rom, pandemiis dros xalxmravloba

„ocnebis” mier damkvidrebuli

tradiciaa. xels sanam

sxvisken gaiSveren, jer sakuTar

Tavs Sexedon da TavianTi saqcieli

gaaanalizon. amdeni xalxi

rom gamovida quCaSi kovidis

dros, mgoni, bevr rameze metyvelebs.

„ocneba”, wesiT, imas unda

aanalizebdes, Tu ram gamoiyvana

aseT dros xalxi gareT.

_ magas Zalian kargad xvdebian

da kargad rom xvdebian, amitomac

wyevlian opozicias. Tumca

es Tqvens gaufrTxileblo-

bas ar amarTlebs.

_ qveyanaSi saSineli mdgomareobaa.

xalxs Zalian aSinebs korona,

magram imasac acnobierebs,

rom am virusze uaresic arsebobs.

koronaze uaresi „qarTuli

ocnebaa”. ar aris sasurveli, roca

pandemiis dros bevri adamiani

ikribeba, magram aris iseTi ra-

Racebi, rasac xalxi yvela viTarebaSi

adekvaturad pasuxobs.

_ Tqveni azriT, sxva region-

ebSic aseTive xalxmravali aqcia

iqneboda, rogoric aWaraSi

Sedga?

_ albaT! xalxs yelSi amouvida

„qarTuli ocneba”. sifrTxile

yvelgan unda gamoviCinoT. sifrTxilis

gamoCenisken „qarTul

ocnebasac” movuwodeb. egeni, lamis,

yoveldRe atareben daxurul

darbazebSi Sexvedrebs koordinatorebTan.

Sexvedrebs 200-

300 kaci eswreba. daxurul sivrceSi

amdeni adamianis erTad yofna

Zalian saSiSia. Ria sivrceSi

bevri xalxis erTad yofna nakleb

riskebs Seicavs.

_ baTumSi gamarTuli xalxmravali

aqciiT aSkarad kmay-

ofilebi xarT. zedmetad xom ar

daijereT sakuTari SesaZle-

blobebis? ase iolad ar daT-

mobs „ocneba” poziciebs. Tan

aravin icis, rodis ra Canawereb-

sa da kadrebs gamoagdeben.

_ „nacionaluri moZraoba”

araa is partia, romelsac SeiZleba,

cru molodinebi gauCndes.

Zalian didi praqtika da gamocdileba

gvaqvs. 9 weli xelisuflebaSi

viyaviT da mecxre weli

daiwyo, rac opoziciaSi gadavediT.

aqciebic bevri Cagvitarebia

da _ arCevnebic. aqedan gamomdinare,

situacias emociurad

arasdros vafasebT.

rac Seexeba imas, rom xelisufleba

raRac kadrebs gamoagdebs,

amas mTeli saqarTvelo elodeba.

kadrebs elodebian rogorc

„ocnebisa “ da opoziciis

momxreebi, aseve sruliad apolitikuri

adamianebi. ukve yvelam

gaigo, Tu ras warmoadgens sinamdvileSi

„qarTuli ocneba”. garejis

Tema SemTxveviT ar wamouweviaT

arCevnebis win. Tavadve aRiareben,

es ambavi adrec vicodiT,

magram rogorc jokers, ise vinaxavdiTo.

rac ar unda gamoagdon,

xalxze gavlenas veRar moaxdenen.

maTi nebismieri qmedeba

xalxis gaRizianebas iwvevs.

_ anu aRar gadardebT, ras

gamoagdeben? ggoniaT, rom

xalxi „ocnebaze” ufro gaRizi-

andeba?

_ viciT, risi mkadrebelicaa

„qarTuli ocneba”, amitom yvelafrisTvis

mzad varT. gamoagdon,

rac undaT. erTi ram yvelam

icodes: am sibinZureebis yvela

Semoqmedi Tavis droze pasuxs

agebs kanonis winaSe. „ocnebis”

Saqro terteraSvili:

`xalxs erTi

suli aqvs, rodis

dabrundeba miSa~

mier gamogdebuli nebismieri sibinZure

Tavad ivaniSvilsa da mis

partiaze imoqmedebs cudad.

_ Tqven aqtiurad xarT Car-

Tuli winasaarCevno kampaniaSi

da kaxeTis magaliTze SegiZli-

aT gviTxraT, aris Tu ara opo-

ziciis mxardamWerebze zewola?

_ rogor ara! TviTmmarTvelobebi,

susi, policia „qarTuli

ocnebis” saarCevno Stabebad

iqcnen. kaxeTSi 4 sofeli SeiZleba

ise moaro, rom „ocnebis” erTi

mxardamWeric ver naxo. ramdenime

kviris win dafuZnebuli partiis

momxre SegiZlia naxo, magram

xelisuflebas aRaravin uWers

mxars. mmarTvel partias momxreebi

mxolod sabiujeto organizaciebSi

hyavs. ivaniSvils Zalauflebis

daTmoba ar surs da

xelisuflebaSi dasarCenad absoluturad

yvela zomas mimarTavs.

cdiloben, rom ramenairad moaxdinon

TavianTi amomrCevlis mobilizeba.

vinmem miTxras, sussa

da policias ra unda „qarTuli

èvropuli saqarTvelo~ sakuTar Tavsa da

sakuTar sindiss upirispirdeba. Cven maT

mowinaaRmdegeebad ar ganvixilavT Tavs. Cveni

mTavari samizne biZina ivaniSvili da misi

kriminaluri reJimia. saerTod ar mainteresebs

èvropuli saqarTvelo~ an ratom unda

mainteresebdes? vis dakargvia giga bokeria an

sxva romelime agresiuli lideri?~

ocnebis” saarCevno StabebSi?!

susisa da policiis maRalCinosnebi

ojax-ojax dadian da iTxoven,

rom xalxma 41 nomeri

Semoxazos arCevnebze. ivaniSvilis

partia xSirad iwonebs Tavs

imiT, rom apolitikuri policia

gvyavso. apolitikuri policia

Tu gvyavs, ratom aiZulebs xalxs

saxelisuflebo partiisTvis xmis

micemas.

_ apolitikuri policia arc

arasdros hyolia saqarTvelos,

maT Soris, arc maSin, roca xe-

lisuflebaSi

„nacionalebi”

iyaviT.

_ samwuxarod, verc erTma xelisuflebam

ver SeZlo, rom

policia apolitikuri yofiliyo,

magram axla nametani politizebulia

policia. „qarTulma ocnebam”

rac kargi gvqonda, is daiviwya

da rac cudi gvqonda, is

daitova.

_ es arc unda gagvikvirdes,

„qarTuli ocneba” portirebuli

da uvargisi „nacionalebiT” aris

savse.

_ iq arian gadabargebuli da

aTas raRacas maimunoben. irakli

kobaxiZis gamocxadebuli procentebis

aravis sjera. am qveyanaSi

adamianebi erTmaneTs elaparakebian

da yvelam kargad icis,

ra xdeba da romel partias ra

mxardaWera aqvs. „qarTulma ocnebamac”

kargad icis, ra Sav

dReSic aris. is brZeni kaci ki

ambobs, 63%-iani mxardaWera gvaqvso,

magram ityueba. amxela mxardaWera

rom hqondeT, garejis

Temas axla ar gamoitandnen.

_ am Temis gamogdebam, mgoni,

magaTze imoqmeda cudad. jokerad

Tu miaCndaT, cota niWi-

erad ver gaaTamaSes?

_ sxvanairad apirebdnen am

kartis gaTamaSebas, magram „mTavarma”

arxma daaanonsa es Tema.

amaTac iCqares da siCqareSi bevri

Secdoma dauSves. „mTavari”

arxi rom ara, garejis Temas

arCevnebamde 4 an 5 diT adre gamoagdebdnen.

_ aseT SemTxvevaSi niWierad

gaaTamaSebdnen karts?

_ arCevnebamde 4-5 dRiT adre

rom gamoetanaT es Tema, veravin

32

32 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


mamacaSvilia Tavisufali~

gaigebda, Tu ra moxda sinamdvileSi.

_ ratom ver gavigebdiT?

_ arCevnebamde ramdenime

dRiT adre am sakiTxis Sesaswavlad

aravis ecleboda. aba, daakvirdiT,

ra mesijebiT saubroben

xelisuflebis warmomadgenelbi.

iseT gancxadebebs akeTeben,

romelic arCevnebis win iqneboda

efeqtiani.

_ ra gancxadebebze

saubrobT?

_ gaiZaxian, „nacionalebma”

gareji gayideso. arCevnebis wina

dReebSi es fraza ufro met

wonas SeiZenda. xalxs raRacnairad

daajerebdnen, miuxedavad imisa,

rom aranairi SeTanxmeba ar

arsebobs miwis gasxvisebaze. xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi

Seumdgar faqtze saubroben.

arCevnebis win rom elaparakaT

amaze, xalxi emociis doneze miiRebda

gadawyvetilebas, rogrc

es 2012 wels barbare rafaliancis

SemTxvevaSi moxda. arCevnebis

wina Rames daajeres mTeli

saqarTvelo, rom „nacionalebma”

9 Tvis bavSvi qvevrSi CaaxrCves.

axla es triuki aRar gauvaT.

_ garda imisa, rom opozici-

ur partiebs xelisuflebasTan

giwevT brZola, erTmaneTsac

gamoucxadeT omi. „nacionaleb-

isa” da „evropuli saqarTvelos”

dapirispirebam ukve Zalian

mwvave xasiaTi miiRo. es nor-

maluria?

_ vfiqrob, rom „evropuli

saqarTvelo” sakuTar Tavsa da

sakuTar sindiss upirispirdeba.

Cven maT mowinaaRmdegeebad ar

ganvixilavT Tavs. Cveni mTavari

samizne biZina ivaniSvili da misi

kriminaluri reJimia. saerTod

ar mainteresebs „evropuli

saqarTvelo” an ratom unda mainteresebdes?

vis dakargvia giga

bokeria an sxva romelime agresiuli

lideri?

_ gasagebia, rom bokeria ar

gainteresebT, magram es kin-

klaoba xmebs ar dagakargvinebT?

_ ara mgonia, ufro piriqiT

unda iyos eg ambavi. amomrCeveli

ukeTesad Camoyalibdeba. xmebs is

partiebi dakargaven, romlebic

opozicias esxmian Tavs.

_ Tqvenganac xom modis agresia?

nacionalebic xom upirispirdebiT

sxva opoziciur par-

tiebs?

_ roca gvlanZRaven, sapasuxo

reaqcia gvaqvs xolme. am dapirispirebis

iniciatorebi arasdros

viqnebiT, opozicia arasdros

iqneba Cveni samizne. Cveni survilia,

rom rac SeiZleba meti

opoziciis mxardamWeri mivides

arCevnebze. ase ufro iolad

davasrulebT „qarTul ocnebas”.

_ Tqveni lideri mixeil

saakaSvili Zalian gaaqtiurda.

igi cota xis winaT aTenSi

qarTvel emigrantebs Sexvda.

axla italiaSi apirebs msgavsi

Sexvedris mowyobas. sazRvargareT

Zalian aqtiurad gadaadg-

ildeba da aq rodis apirebs

`sxvanairad apirebdnen am kartis gaTamaSebas, magram `mTavarma~ arxma

daaanonsa es Tema. amaTac iCqares da siCqareSi bevri Secdoma dauSves.

`mTavari~ arxi rom ara, garejis Temas arCevnebamde 4 an 5 diT adre

gamoagdebdnen~

Camosvlas?

_ amis prognozireba cota

rTulia. es bevr ramezea damokidebuli.

pirvel rigSi imaze, Tu

rogor dasruldeba saparlamento

arCevnebi. Zalian bevri komponenti

iqneba gasaTvaliswinebeli.

misi gaaqtiureba aravis unda

ukvirdes. miSa erT-erTi yvelaze

Zlieri opoziciuri gaer-

Tianebis premierobis kandidatia

da misgan aqtiuroba normaluria.

Tumca saakaSvili rac politika-

Si gamoCnda, sul aqtiuria.

_ is sul aqtiuria, magram

winasaarCevno aqtiurobas „oc-

neba” saTavisod gamoiyenebs da

kidev erTxel moawyobs isteri-

kas, rom Cven Tu ar agvirCevT,

miSa dabrundebao.

_ es meTodi aRar gaWris da

piriqiT, Cvens wisqvilze daasxams

wyals. rac metjer ityvian „qocebi”,

miSa dabrundebao, imdenjer

gaimeorebs amomrCeveli, _

Zalian kargi, Tu dabrundebao.

am tendencias aSkarad vamCnev.

`darwmunebuli var, rom damarcxdebian. sadac

ginda gaiaroT, yvelgan òcnebas~ agineben.

erTi sabiujeto organizaciebSi dasaqmebulebi

amboben, rom ivaniSvils uWeren mxars. ar

gamovricxav, rom amas samsaxuris dakargvis

SiSiT ambobdnen da sinamdvileSi opoziciis

mxardamWerebi iyvnen~

miSas dabrunebas is xalxic ki

uWers mxars, romelic 2016 wlamde

gahyviroda, _ miSa ar Camovideso!

axla es adamianebi amboben,

oRond ivaniSvili wavides da

visac unda, is Camovideso. yvela

xvdeba, rom miSas SeuZlia amaTi

gaSveba, amitom imis yvirili, rom

miSa Camova, axla ukve Cven

sasargeblod imuSavebs.

_ xalxi fiqrobs, rom oRond

ivaniSvili wavides da vinc unda

is Camovideso. 2003 wels gvegona,

rom SevardnaZe Tu wavido-

da, mas nebismieri ajobebda. 2012

wels vfiqrobdiT, rom saakaSvi-

lis wasvla iyo aucilebeli da

yvela masze ukeTesi iqneboda.

ivaniSvilis SemTxvevaSic msgavss

realobas xom ar vixilavT? mis

Semdeg mosuli xelisufleba

winaze uaresi xom ar gaxdeba?

_ 2003 wels xalxi sworad

fiqrobda, rom SevardnaZes yvela

ajobebda. miSam rom ajoba,

amas rad unda Tqma. WaobSi CaZiruli

saqarTvelo normalur saxelmwifod

iqca. 2012 wels xalxs

namdvilad araswori molodinebi

gauCnda da egona, rom yvela, maT

Soris, biZina, saakaSvilze ukeTesi

iqneboda. ivaniSvili uaresi

gamodga, Tan Zalian.

_ marTalia, „ocnebam” ver

ivarga, magram sazogadoebis naw-

ili amtkicebs, ivaniSvilma

Tavisufleba mogvcao.

_ susi ojaxidan ojaxSi rom

dadis da iTxovs, „qarTul ocnebas”

mieciT xma, es rogori Tavisuflebaa?

biznesmenebs pirdapir

eubnebian, Tu xelisuflebas

mxars ar dauWerT, problemebi

SegeqmnebaTo. amas hqvia Tavisufleba?

iqneb, sxvagan sadmea Tavisufleba

da me ver vamCnev? sazogadoebis

ra giTxraT. magram

ivaniSvilma Tavis deidaSvil uCa

mamacaSvils namdvilad misca Tavisufleba.

mamacaSvils bevri ramis

ufleba aqvs, maT Soris, imisic,

ra fasadac unda, im fasad

iyidis yurZens.

_ uCasa da misnairebis dawese-

bulma fasma _ 80 TeTrma _ kaxelebis

didi aRSfoTeba gamoi-

wvia.

_ kaxelebi Zalian gabrazebulebi

arian. usircxvilo irakli

qadagiSvili gamodis da ambobs,

mere ra, Tu erTi kilo yurZeni

80 TeTri Rirs, wina wlebSi 70

TeTri Rirdao. yvela mimarTulebiT

uaresdeba situacia,

rasac mosaxleoba kargad xedavs.

mosaxleobas Tavi gavaneboT da

qveyanaSi rom mZime mgomareobaa,

es Tavad ivaniSvilma aRiara. 2018

wlis bolos is gamovida da Tqva,

erTi weli momeciT da yvelafers

gamovasworebo. kargad rom

yofiliyo saqme, xom ar ityoda,

gamovasworebo? am gamosvlidan

TiTqmis ori weli gavida, magram,

aba, miTxariT ra gaumjobesda?

biZina ivaniSvils araferi Seucvlia.

_ rogor ar Seucvlia: premieri

gamocvala _ mamuka bax-

taZe giorgi gaxariam Caanacvla.

_ mere, esaa cvlileba?! ra

mniSvneloba aqvs, premieris kabinetis

karze gakrul abraze visi

gvari ewereba?! Tan premieris

Secvlam ra gamoaswora?! _ lari

ufro metad gaufasurda! kriminalma

moimata! ufro meti sagareo

vali aviReT da a. S. „qarTuli

ocneba” pirad saqmeebs kargad

agvarebs, magram qveyanas ver mar-

Tavs. 31 oqtombers Cven bevri

ramis Secvla SegviZlia.

_ Secvla SegviZlia, magram

SevcvliT? ra prognozebi

gaqvT?

_ velodebi „qarTuli ocnebis”

opoziciaSi gadabargebas.

_ ase martivad gadavlen

opoziciaSi?

_ martivad rom ar Tmoben,

magitom kadruloben yvela sisaZagles.

amis dasturia garejis

saqme. roca xalxis seriozuli

mxardaWera aRar gaqvs, Zalian

Znelia, karSi gaiboto da wasvlaze

uari Tqva. Zalianac rom

movindomoT opoziciam, „qarTuli

ocneba” xelisuflebaSi veRar

darCeba. momxreebi aRar hyavs

am partias. xom giTxariT, 4-5

sofels ise moivliT, am partiis

mardamWers ver naxavT. viRacam

Tu mainc giTxraT, rom „qarTul

ocnebas” uWers mxars, pirdapir

unda hkiTxo, romel sabiujeto

organizaciaSi muSaobs. sxva adamianebi

amaT mxars ar uWeren. an

rogor unda dauWiron? _ mTeli

qveyana Tavdayira daayenes. erTi

jandacviT da sayovelTao daz-

RveviT amayobdnen. axla es sistemac

amouyiravdaT. aqamde Tavs

iwonebdnen, rom korona-pandemias

kargad gavumklavdiTo. magaliTisTvis

amerikac ki mohyavdaT,

iq amdeni inficirebulia da

CvenTan ase cotao. imaze ki ar

ufiqriaT, Tu ramdeni milioni

kaci cxovrobs amerkaSi. procentulad

inficirebulebis raodenobiT

amerikasac vuswrebT da

sxva qveynebsac. sadRac pirvel

sameulSi SevdivarT.

amaT, yvela sikeTesTan erTad

ekonomikac CamoSales. ekonomikis

CamoSla iwvevs konkretuli adamianebis

mdgomareobis gauaresebas.

es yvelas kargad unda gvesmodes.

uazro regulaciebi

daaweses, verc korona SeaCeres

da ekonomikac gaanadgures.

_ inficirebulTa raodenoba

saeWvod izrdeba. ar gifiqriaT,

rom es arCevnebs ukavSirdeba?

aqciebis dawyebis SemTxvevaSi

Caketaven qveyanas?

_ aba, erTi gaayalbon arCevnebi

da qveynis Caketva-arCaketvas

magaT vin hkiTxavs. 31 oqtombers,

saRamos cxris naxevarze, „ocnebas”

xalxic ki ar darCeba StabebSi.

_ ase Zalian xarT magaT dam-

arcxebaSi darwmunebuli?

_ darwmunebuli var, rom damarcxdebian.

sadac ginda gaiaroT,

yvelgan „ocnebas” agineben. erTi

sabiujeto organizaciebSi dasaqmebulebi

amboben, rom ivaniSvils

uWeren mxars. ar gamovricxav,

rom amas samsaxuris dakargvis

SiSiT ambobdnen da sinamdvileSi

opoziciis mxardamWerebi iyvnen.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

33

xviCa mamulaZe


„winandlis premiis gamarjvebuls” mxatvrul literatura-

Si, roin abuseliZes, baTumeli axalgazrda poetis wodeba mien-

iWa. vin aris roin abuseliZe? ras gegmavs samomavlod poeti?

„qronika+~-ma gadawyvita,

baTumeli axalgazrda poeti,

roin abuseliZe, Tavis mkiTxv-

els axlodan gaacnos

_ gamarjoba, roin, SegiZli-

aT gviTxraT, ras niSnavs iyo

poeti?

_ mogesalmebiT. pirvel rig-

Si, didi madloba, CemTan intervius

Caweris survili rom gamo-

TqviT... rac poezias Seexeba,

yovelTvis mecvleboda damokidebuleba

mis mimarT, Sesabamisad,

cneba poeti da me _ poeti,

yovelTvis sxvadasxvanairad

mesmis. am SemTxvevaSi, albaT,

poeti aris sarke, im eris, xalxis,

tradiciebisa da mimdinare

movlenebis, rac Cven irgvliv

xdeba. Sinaganad vgrZnob, rom

Zalian maRalia da faseulia,

gerqvas poeti, magram... „poezia

imaze gacilebiT metia, rac

aqamde uTqvamT.

_ rodis daiwyeT wera?

_ vwerdi bavSvobidan, Zalian

miyvarda leqsebi, martivad

viTvisebdi saskolo programa-

Si Setanil poeziasac. erT

dResac vcade damewera. cxadia,

Tavidan es yvelaferi bavSvuri

gataceba iyo, magram nel-nela

seriozuli saxe miiRo da universitetis

dasrulebis Semdeg

ufro yuradRebiT movekide.

iyo mcire da xangrZlivi pauzebi,

magram poezia CemSia da es

cecxli xan Rvivis, xanac,

ubralod, minavlulia.

_ vin iyo Tqveni - liter-

aturaSi?

_ gzamkvlevs rac Seexeba,

albaT, isev is poetebi, romel-

Ta fesvebzec aRmovcendiT,

romelTa nayofsac vagemovnebT

da romelTa mxrebzec vdgavarT,

raTa ufro win gavixedoT.

galaktion tabiZesa da

zurab gorgilaZes gamovarCevdi

Cemi sayvareli avtorebidan,

magram es sia, raRa Tqma unda,

vrcelia. gavlena iqonia oTar

WilaZem, terenti granelma,

mirza gelovanma, SoTa niSnianiZem

da sxvebma.

_ ratom gadawyviteT, es

saqme gekeTebinaT?

_ ar vfiqrob, rom es me gadavwyvite

an ase erTi gadawyvetilebiT

viqeci poetad, es

ufro sxvagan wydeba, ufro

maRla, es TavisTavad moxda,

TavisiT movida da yvela nervi

daikava. saqmes ver davarqmev, es

gatacebaa, sicocxlea, sikvdilia,

omia, siyvarulia, yovlismomcvelia.

_ inspiraciis wyaro ra

aris?

_ STagonebis wyaros sxvanairad

vxedav: aris movlenebis

grZeli asxma, grZnobebis

erTianoba, gancdebi, tkivilebi,

rac, ubralod, grovdeba da

sadRac unda gadavides. Cems

SemTxvevaSi es furcelze gadadis.

rogorc aseTi muza, Tilisma

da STagonebis konkretuli

wyaro ar arsebobs, CemTvis weris

procesi wyvdiadis ganTavisuflebaa,

romelic grovdeba

da aucilebelia, is gareT gamovuSva.

_ araerTi premiis laureati

xarT ...

_ tyuilad ar gavrjilvar...

magram saerTod ar niSnavs premia

an jildoTa nakleboba iqces

far-xmlis dayris sababad, es

ubralod minimaluri wamaxalisebeli

jildoa, rasac konkretuli

adamianebi wyveten. ra

Tqma unda, sasixaruloa da saamayoa.

ubralod, poezia yvelaferze

maRla dgas, yvela premiaze.

_ ras niSnavs TqvenTvis ba-

Tumeli?

_ gulis gulTan kavSiria

baTumi... ufro vrclad leqsiT

gipasuxeb:

roin abuseriZe:

`radgan wavida Jini

da movida analitika...~

baTums

verc ise saSiS

wvimebis xSiri

da mxiaruli ultimatumi,

SesZlebs rom gulis

gulTan kavSiri

Seswyvitos...

ise miyvars baTumi _

TviT baTumia amis mizezi,

baTumi Cveni qveynis kelia

da am qalaqSi

xSirad ise wvims

rwmundebi

wvimac baTumelia.

lampionebze

Rrublebs abamen

quCebi, dRea Sarmis morgeba

roca amindi

rZisfer saRamos

moiqargavs da moiqolgeba.

sxedan Citebic

sarecx Tokebze,

sxedan da kenken

qalaqs vnebians,

Cerdeba wvima

xolo qolgebi

sokoebiviT ikrifebian.

leqsi ki rCeba

rogorc baraqa,

mTvares rom etrfis,

Ramis _ bairaRs

da mTels qalaqSi

mTeli qalaqi

bednieria raRacnairad!..

_ SegiZliaT gviTxraT rome-

lia Tqveni sayvareli leqsi?

_ gamorCeulad miyvars galaktionis

„efemera”.

_ rodis velodoT axal

wigns?

_ Zalian male gamova Cemi,

niaz zosiZisa da sulxan wulukiZis

saerTo krebuli „sulerTia

ocdaaTis mere?!” sadac

Sesulia leqsebi da novelebi.

vnaxoT, rogor Sexvdeba axal

wigns mkiTxveli...

_ ras etyodiT mkiTxvels?

_ zogadad mkiTxvels verafers

vetyodi. iyo mkiTxveli,

es ukve Zalian mniSvnelovania.

piriqiT, maTgan miviRebdi

rCevebs, xolo Cems mkiTxvels

minda vuTxra, rom Zalian

nu gamibrazdeba, Tu Cemi axali

leqsebi iseT enTuziazmsa da

axalgazrdul elfers aRar

atarebs, rogorc uwin, radgan

wavida Jini da movida analitika...

Tumc mainc _ „poezia upirveles

yovlisa”...

da erT qolgaSi

myofi wyvilebi,

mravldeba

TiTo-TiTo tiraJiT,

erTmaneTi

rom uyvarT, wvimaSi _

mixvdebi kaci

danamdvilebiT.

àr vfiqrob, rom es me gadavwyvite an ase

erTi gadawyvetilebiT viqeci poetad, es ufro

sxvagan wydeba, ufro maRla, es TavisTavad

moxda, TavisiT movida da yvela nervi daikava.

saqmes ver davarqmev, es gatacebaa, sicocxlea,

sikvdilia, omia, siyvarulia, yovlismomcvelia~

34

34 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

giorgi sakaruli

555 42 42 81

miuxedavad imisa, rom moda

mudmivad icvleba, Savi da TeTri tansacmeli yovelTvis aq-

tualuria yvelaze qaluri brendis koleqciebSi: Versace, Gucci,

Carolina Herrera da a. S. dizainerebi srul pativs miageben

50-70-iani wlebis tendencias, rodesac es kombinacia hiti iyo.

naTeli ferebis fonze, romelsac

wels TiTqmis yvela modis

saxli gvTavazobs, SeiZleba Savi

da TeTri mosawyenad gamoiyurebodes.

magram es ase ar aris. miuxedavad

imisa, rom am sezonze

mTavari aqcenti gakeTebulia,

Sav-TeTris klasika kvlav bevr

koleqciaSia.

magaliTad, xaTuna kobaxiZe

sxva dizainerebisgan swored

gansxvavebuli stiliT, araordinalurobiTa

da ori feriT

gamoirCeva. misi Sav-TeTri,

tyaviT gawyobili samosi ki SeumCneveli

namdvilad ar dagr-

CebaT. rac yvelaze mTavaria,

„xaTkos” xelweras yvelasgan da

yvelafrisgan gamoarCevT.

miuxedavad imisa, rom qarTuli

brendi „xaTko” bazarze ukve

oTxi welia, arsebobs, is wamyvani

brendebis gverdiT mowinave

poziciebs ikavebs da yovelwliurad

farTovdeba.

socialur qsels Tu Tvals

gadavavlebT, mixvdebiT, rom

„xaTkos” samosi TiTqmis yvela

cnobili qarTveli selebriTis

garderobSia, romlis oficialuri

saxec msaxiobi maka SalikaSvili

gaxlavT.

xaTuna kobaxiZe, dizaineri:

_ maRazia „malsSi” vmuSaobdi

menejerad, rodesac patar-patara

nivTebis gakeTeba daviwye.

dRisiT Tu samsaxurSi viyavi,

saRamos saxlSi mivdiodi da

aqsesuarebs vakeTebdi. Semdeg

gadavwyvite, rom Cemi namuSevrebi

socialur qselSi ametvirTa,

rasac Zalian didi gamoxmaureba

moyva da bevrs moswonda igi.

amis mere daviwye CanTebze muSaoba.

zustad 6 TveSi gadavwyvite

sakuTari maRaziis gaxsna. pekinze

aviRe farTi da pirvelive

dRes Zalian kargi Sedegi mqonda.

nel-nela davixvewe, maRazias

sxvadasxva nivTi Sevmate da ga-

vakeTe is, rac yovelTvis mindoda.

_ pirad saubrebSi miTxariT,

rom samoss ar vxatavo. sainteresoa,

rogor iqmneba „xaT-

ko”?

_ namdvilad ar vxatav. arafers

vgegmav. mivdivar, Sevxedav,

momwons da vqmni modelebs.

Targs ar vakeTeb, pirdapir vWri

da vkerav kostiums.

_ inspiracia am SemTxvevaSi

vin an ra aris?

_ inspiracia isev sakuTari

Tavia. vqmni da vakeTeb imas,

rasac me Cavicvam. iseT samoss

vTavazob momxmarebels, raSic

piradad me vgrZnob Tavs komfortulad.

arasdros vuyureb

sxvas, vin ras akeTebs. me maqvs

Cemi saqme, Cemi stili da mxolod

amas vuSveb.

_ gaamarTla am principma?

_ ra Tqma unda, Zalian gaamarTla.

dRes ukve brend „xaTkos”

xuTi maRaziaa da kmayofili var.

quTaisSi vapireb maRaziis gaxsnas,

radgan iqac Zalian didi

moTxovnaa.

_ Tqvens garderobs Tu gadavxedavT,

ZiriTadad, Sav-

TeTri samosi dominirebs. ra-

tom Savi, imitom xom ara rom

qarTvelebs gansakuTrebulad

gviyvars es feri, Tu piradad

Tqven grZnobT am ferSi Tavs

komfortulad?

_ Savi da TeTri Cemi sayvareli

ferebia, Tumca sxva feris

samossac vakeTeb. ZiriTadad ki

namdvilad Savi feris samosia.

_ da yvela samoss aqvs tyavis

detali, ratom? raime mniS-

vnelovani datvirTva aqvs amas

TqvenTvis?

_ amasTan dakavSirebiT patara

istorias mogiyvebiT: roca

es saqme daviwye, kerva ar vicodi

da samosis daboloebas ver

vakeTebdi, ise rogorc saWiro

iyo, amitom gadavwyvite, tyavis


xaTuna kobaxiZe:

`pandemiis dros

fasebi gavanaxevre

da momxmarebeli

ar damikargavs~

detalebiT SemefuTa es yvelaferi.

mas Semdeg nebismier Cems

samoss tyavis detali unda hqondes,

ramac Zalian gaamarTla.

mTavari da mniSvnelovani is

aris, rom yvelaze didi aqcenti

keTdeba xarisxze.

_ ra masalaze muSaobT?

_ sportul masalaze vmuSaob

_ Cemi ufro qeJuali stilia.

_ pirveli Tqveni koleqcia

amerikaSi wavida. rogor moax-

erxeT es yvelaferi?

_ pirveli warmateba amerikas

ukavSirdeba: saqarTveloSi ori

amerikeli wyvili iyo Camosuli,

romelic Cems SourumSi imyofeboda.

maT TavianTTvis SeiZines

samosi, cota xanSi damikavSirdnen

da miTxres, rom didi Sekve-

Tis gakeTeba surdaT, razedac

siamovnebiT davTanxmdi. ase moxvda

Cemi samosi amerikaSi da es

iyo CemTvis Zalian didi stimuli,

radgan sruliad marto

vmuSaobdi. dRemde aris gamowerebi,

Zalian aqtiurad gadis

Cemi samosi baqoSi.

_ didi konkurenciaa modis

sferoSi. bevri niWieri dizaineri

qmnis samoss, uamravi axerx-

ebs realizebas, bevric _ vera.

rodesac am saqmes iwyebdiT, ar

SegeSindaT konkurenciis?

_ zogadad, arafris meSinia.

am sferoSi sakmaod didi gamocdileba

maqvs da zustad vici,

ra dros rogor da ranairad unda

moviqce. pandemiis dros radikalurad

Sevcvale midgomebi,

fasebi gavanaxevre, onlain gamowerebze

gadavediT da momxmarebeli

ar damikargavs. aqedan gamomdinare,

siaxleebis arasdros

meSinia. Cemi radikalurad gansxvavebuli

stilia da konkurentad

aravis miviCnev.

_ riT gansxvavdeba dRes

„xaTko” sxva dizainerebisgan?

_ bevri ramiT: Cemi xaziT,

stiliTa da individualizmiT.

_ elodebodiT aseT mokle

periodSi warmatebas?

_ imdenad did Sromas vdeb am

saqmeSi, rom vfiqrob, yvelaferi

Zalian kargad wava. albaT, velodebodi,

radgan yovelTvis imas

veubnebi sakuTar Tavs, rom win

unda wavide da jer kidev bevri

kargi ram maqvs gasakeTebeli.

_ ra aris is, ris gamoc

gaxdiT warmatebuli dizain-

eri? oTxi weli bazarze xarT

da am mcire drois monakveTSi

Tqveni samosiT uamravi cno-

bili adamiani imoseba.

_ albaT, imitom rom gansxvavebuls

vqmni. garda amisa, aqam-

de didad ar miyvarda sxvadasxva

adgilebSi siaruli, prezentaciebsa

da a. S. axla vTqvi, _

ratomac ara? uamravi megobari

damidga gverdiT. Cemi brendis

saxea uniWieresi msaxiobi da

Cemi megobari maka SalikaSvili,

eka mgalobliSvili, aseve sofo

boWoriZe, romelic yvelaferSi

gverdiT midgas. isini meubnebodnen,

rom unda gamoCnde, sazogadoebam

unda gagicnoso.

vfiqrob, rom droa, farTo

sazogadoebam gaicnos „xaTko”

da gamicnos me. aqamde, simarTle

giTxraT, am yvelafers Tavs varidebdi,

ar vaZlevdi interviuebs,

ar vCandi, mxolod CemTvis

viyavi da mSvidad vakeTebdi

saqmes.

_ marTalia, mSvidi cxovre-

ba TqvenTvis prioriteti iyo,

magram es simSvide namdvilad

aRar geqnebaT Jurnalistebisa

eqskluzivi

`droa, farTo

sazogadoebam gaicnos

`xaTko~ da gamicnos me~

da sxva cnobili adamianebis

xelSi. es xumrobiT, magram

axla ufro sxva pasuxismgeblo-

bas grZnobT?

_ ra Tqma unda. axla yvelaferi

sxvanairadaa, ginda-ar

ginda sul yuradRebis centrSi

xar da sul formaSi unda iyo.

_ pandemiis periodma ramdenad

uaryofiTi gavlena moaxdi-

na biznesze?

_ ver getyviT, rom uaryofiTad

imoqmeda, radgan am periodSi

onlain SekveTebi Zalian

gaaqtiurda. yvela Cemi TanamSromeli

muSaobda saxlidan, va-

Zlevdi SekveTebs, isini keravdnen

da Semdeg momxmareblamde

midioda.

_ personaluri Cvenebis ga-

keTebas apirebT?

_ ra Tqma unda. am etapze ver

visaubreb, raRacebs siurprizad

davtoveb.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

35


àraRiarebisa da daufaseblobis

miuxedavad imisa, rom dRevande-

giorgi sakaruli

li situaciidan gamomdinare qveya-

555 42 42 81

naSi yvelaferi gaCerebulia da

araferi xdeba, pandemiis dros mom-

Reralma markus metrevelma sakmaod bevr proeqts Cauyara safuZ-

veli, romlis ganxorcielebasac nel-nela iwyebs. sul axlaxan

momReralma axali simRerebi Cawera, ramdenime maTganze ki kli-

pis gadaRebas uaxloes momavalSi gegmavs, Tumca iqamde markusma

da samodelo saagento „katrinis” patara modelebma, anastasia

bakuraZem da mariam berZeniSvilma, erToblivi simRera „guli

TqveniT Tbeba” Caweres, romelzedac videoklipi gadaiRes.

mariam berZeniSvili:

`markusi Zalian

momTxovni da

Sromismoyvarea~

rogorc „qronika+~-sTan momRerali

acxadebs, klipi erT-

erTma telekompaniam dabloka.

ratom? _ ucnobia. „araprofe-

sionalizmi da klanuri mmarT-

veloba”, _ ase Seafasa markus

metrevelma aRniSnuli qmedeba.

„qronika+~ klipSi monawile

samive maTgans gaesaubra:

_ markus, sanam klipze, mis

dablokvaze, gadaRebebsa da

gegmebze visaubrebdeT, iqamde

mogviyeviT, sad da rogor gaa-

tareT pandemiis periodi?

_ pandemiis dros viyavi germaniaSi,

koncerti mqonda berlinSi,

romelsac eswrebodnen germanelebi,

holandiebi, frangebi

da yvelaferma Zalian kargad Caiara.

Semdeg saqarTveloSi davbrundi

orkvirian karantinSi. es

periodic sakmaod pozitiurad

gadavagore, radgan vmuSaobdi

sakuTar Tavze, axal simRerebze,

vuyurebdi filmebs da a. S.

_ Tqvennairi aqtiuri adamianisTvis

ar iyo rTuli karan-

tini?

_ Zalian ucxo iyo da rTulic,

magram gamomdinare iqidan,

rom Zalian mniSvnelovani gaxldaT

CemTvis gantvirTva, davisvene.

_ ras akeTebdiT pandemiis

dros?

_ ZiriTadad, vvarjiSobdi,

yovelTvis formaSi viyavi da

Cems sxeulze vzrunavdi. vkiTxulobdi

da, ra Tqma unda, axal

simRerebze vmuSaobdi, romelic

pandemiis Semdeg periodSi unda

gamosuliyo.

_ xmis Camweri studiebi

muSaobda?

_ muSaobda, oRond yvelanairi

wesis dacviT. kabinaSi Sedioda

erTi momRerali da, Sesabamisad,

imis saSualeba gvqonda,

rom Cagvewera da Cveni namuSevari

gamogveSva.

_ dResac Zalian rTul mdgo-

mreobaSi varT. yvelaze didi

ziani miadga kulturas, Soubi-

zness. marTalia, es mxolod saqarTveloSi

araa, magram evro-

pis sxva qveynebSi xelovan xalxs

sxva xelSemwyobi pirobebi aqvT

da saxelmwifo zrunavs maTze.

qveyanaSi Seqmnili epidsituaci-

iT gamowveuli es mdgomareoba,

ramdenad giqmniT diskom-

forts?

_ Zalian rTulia rogorc

CemTvis, aseve Cemi kolegebisTvis.

Cveni Semoqmedebis realizacia

veRar xerxdeba, koncertebi

aRar tardeba, rac finansurad

gvazaralebs. garda amisa,

es realoba Zalian rTulad

aisaxeba Cems nervul sistemaze,

meSinia, axlos ver vuaxlovdebi

adamians da Tu vinmes gadavkocni,

mgonia, rom mec virusi maqvs.

_ sad xedavT gamosavals?

_ jerjerobiT ver vxedav.

gamosavali, albaT, is aris, rom

saxelmwifo ufro metad unda

zrunavdes xelovan adamianebze,

rogorc germania, safrangeTi,

amerika da bevri sxva qveyana. Cveni

erTaderTi Semosavali simReridanaa

da esec Tu gaCerdeba,

finansebis gareSe davrCebiT.

_ Tqveni azriT, am situaciam

ramdeni nabijiT ukan dawia

qarTuli Soubiznesi?

_ wels viyavi baTumSi da Zalian

bevri koncerti Catarda.

ver vigrZeni, rom ukan davixieT.

mxolod da mxolod ekonomikurad

dagvwia ukan, magram koncertebi

koncertebze imarTeboda.

_ imitom xom ara, rom xalxi

monatrebuli iyo garTobas?

_ SeiZleba, egec iyo, radgan

imdeni xalxi modioda restornebsa

Tu klubebSi, rom gverds

ver auvlidi. Semdeg ukve gamocxadda

Tu ara baTumi cota problemur

zonad, yvelaferi daiketa

da Cvenc davsxediT saxlSi.

_ davijero, kolegebi ar

ikribebiT ibebiT da ar saxavT gegmebs,

rom raime saxis gamosavali naxoT

am konkretuli situaci-

idan?

_ ra Tqma unda, diskusia arsebobda

momRerlebSi, rom Cveni

xma migvewvdina saxelmwifosTvis,

Tumca es daqsaqsulad ar Segvi-

Zlia. aq unda gaverTiandeT, rom

gunduri xma mivawvdinoT mTavrobas.

_ kulturis saministros Tu

gamouTqvams TqvenTan Sexved-

ris interesi?

_ ara, Tumca meriam ramdenime

koncerti Caatara Ria cis qveS,

anastasia bakuraZe:

`bednieri viqnebi,

Tu es korona male

gaqreba da yvelani

kargad viqnebiT~

sadac mec vmonawileobdi da

vfiqrob, esec erTgvari daxmarebaa.

_ markus, aRsaniSnavia, rom

swored maSin, rodesac mTeli

qveyana paralizebuli iyo da

araferi muSaobda, Tqven da

samodelo saagento „katrinis”

patara modelebma, anastia

bakuraZem da mariam berZeniSvilma,

CawereT simRera, gadaiReT

maRali donis saerTa-

Soriso videoklipi. ufro

dawvrilebiT mogviyeviT am

proeqtis Sesaxeb.

_ anastasia bakuraZe da mariam

berZeniSvili, faqtobrivad,

Cemi Svilebi arian, radgan TiTqmis

Cems xelSi gaizardnen. isini

„katrinis” modelebi arian da

swored maTi survili iyo, rom

dueti CemTan CaeweraT. eka mgalobliSvilis

idea gaxldaT, pandemiis

dros Segveqmna raRac gansxvavebuli

da kargi proeqti. 40

gradus sicxeSi mimdinareobda

klipis gadaReba. specialurad am

klipisTvis Seiqmna kostiumebi,

daiwera axali simRera, ramdenime

lokaciaze mimdinareobda

gadaReba, yvelaferi Zalian ma-

Ral doneze gakeTda. bavSvebi

super profesionalebi arian.

bevr momReralTan mimuSavia, magram,

simarTle giTxraT, aseTi

tandemi aravisTan mqonia,

rogorc am bavSvebTan.

_ gadaRebebi sad mimdinare-

obda?

_ ramdenime lokaciaze. naxevari

saqarTvelo SemoviareT.

erT-erTi iyo aeroporti da ase-

Ti sicxis miuxdavad, bavSvebi

araCveulebrivad muSaobdnen. ar

sWirdebodaT zedmeti miTiTeba,

36

36 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


sindromi gvaqvs qarTvelebs~

Tu ra unda gaekeTebinaT. aseT

klipebs dRes saqarTveloSi zrdasruli

momRerlebi Zlivs

iReben da SeiZleba iTqvas, rom

verc iReben, radgan kargi da

maRali xarisxis klipis gadaReba

sakmaod did finansebs moiTxovs.

rac Seexeba simReras, is

ekuTvnis Zalian niWier kompozitorsa

da musikos boriko Sxians,

teqsti ekuTvnis saocar poet

nana cincaZes da Cawera „bravo

rekordSi” aleko berZeniSvilma

daabalansa. klipis reJisori ki

Zalian niWieri sani nadiraZea.

muSaoba davasruleT da gadavwyvite,

es produqcia erT-erTi

telviziisTvis SemeTevazebina,

sadac klipis premiera Sedgeboda,

magram uari miviReT.

_ ratom?

_ mizezi rogorc Tqven ar

iciT, ise ar vici mec. Zalian

mainteresebs, nuTu amaze ukeTesi

xarisxis videoklipebi gadis

maT eTerSi?! Cven musikaluri

arxi ar gagvaCnia da maTTvis

bedniereba unda iyos, rom Cveni

produqcia gauSvan eTerSi. pasuxi

iyo aseTi: am etapze ara da

morCa! magram konkretuli pasuxi

ar viciT, Tu ratom.

_ politikurad aqtiur periods

xom ar ukavSirebT am yvelafers,

radgan Sesabamisi for-

mati da saeTero dro ver

gamonaxes?

_ ara, arafer SuaSia eg, aq iyo

dilis gadacemaze saubari. sim-

Rera Zalian pozitiuria da

gaalamazebda dilis eTers. ar

vici, SeiZleba cud xasiaTze

gaiRviZes prodiuserebma im momentSi,

rodesac pasuxi gamces da

Tu asea, e. i. Zalian bevri araprofesionali

muSaobs im televiziaSi

da konkretulad am gadacemaSi,

radgan maTi xasiaTis

mixedviT ar unda wydebodes, Tu

romeli momRerlis ra produqcia

romel gadacemaSi gava. yvelam

kargad iciT, Tu rogori

apolitikuri var. CemTvis mTavaria,

saqarTvelo waiwios win.

ar vici, es dablokva saidan wamovida

an visi iniciativiT, Tumca

Zalian kargad vxvdebi, Tu vis

interesSi Sedioda. dakonkretebisgan

Tavs Sevikaveb. sabednierod,

erT-erTi wamyvani televiziisgan

velodebi axla pasuxs

da premiera sxvagan gakeTdeba.

_ aqamde Tu gqoniaT msgavsi

SemTxveva?

_ cxovrebaSi arasdros mqonia

msgavsi SemTxveva da CemTvis imdenad

ucxo iyo es pasuxi, rom

Zalian gamecina. rodesac yvelanairi

mizezis gareSe gblokaven,

e. i. maTze ukeTesi xar da Seni

gamoCenis eSiniaT. arasdros, arc

erTi Cemi kolegisTvis ar mikadrebia

erTi cudi da zedmeti

sityvac ki.

_ piradi interesebi ufro

ikveTeba?

_ rasakvirvelia. zustad vici,

saidan modis es yvelaferi, magram

ar davecemi maT donemde da

ar gamovekidebi maT mdabio pasuxs.

es maTi interesi unda iyos,

rom Cemi produqcia, siaxle gaa-

Suqos televiziam. Zalian didi

madloba minda gadavuxado nino

CxeiZes, radgan es klipi da sim-

Rera mis orive musikalur teleradio

sadgurSi trialebs:

„dardimandi” da „afxazeTis xma”.

aseve „miuziq boqsSi” gadis Cemi

yvela video.

_ aq gasaTvaliswinebelia

bavSvebis fsiqologiuri faqtoric,

radgan swored maT hqon-

daT Zalian didi molodini, rom

am videorgolis prezentacia

Sedgeboda erT-erT arxze da

uceb maTTvis gaugebar mizezTa

gamo klipi iblokeba.

_ eg mewyina yvelaze Zalian. am

or araCveulebriv bavSvTan ususuri

aRmovCndi. ar maqvs pasuxi,

verc erTs da verc meores ver

veubnebi, Tu ra mizeziT ar Sedga

premiera. verc mixvdebian amas.

bavSvebs, romelTac xuTi saer-

TaSoriso konkursi aqvT mogebuli,

103 qveyanas Soris erTi

granpri gaica tailandSi da isic

qarTvelma anastasia bakuraZem

wamoiRo, mariam berZeniSvilma ki

2019 wels aiRo granpri; saqar-

Tvelos saxeli am asakSi gaaqvT

sazRvrebs gareT da asaxeleben

Cvens qveyanas; bavSvebs, romlebsac

vogis, milanis, parizis modis

kvireulebze icnoben, ase

guls stkenen. roca klipis anonsi

gavrcelda, sxvadasxva qveynis

televiziam mogvwera, _ klipi

mogveciT, rom saeTero badeSi

CavuSvaTo. bulgareTma, albane-

Tma, rumineTma Zalian didi interesi

gamoiCines da gvTxoves,

rom inglisuri titrebiT gagvekeTebina.

me da anastasias erTi

dueti gvaqvs, romlis premierac

gia jajaniZis SouSi gakeTda,

meore simRera Cavwere da nanuka

JorJolianTan gvqonda premiera.

axla am situacias orive bavSvs

ver auxsni, Tu ras niSnavs sityva

dablokva, radgan arasdros

problema ar gvqonia.

_ da im fonze, roca ucxouri

media interesdeba da gTxovT,

rom klipis gaSveba maT undaT,

cota sasaciloa, roca saku-

Tari qveynis erTi televizia

uars ambobs, isic piradi inter-

esis gamo.

_ es aris araprofesionalizmi

da klanuri mmarTveloba! me

rasac vakeTeb, pirvel rigSi, Cemi

qveynisTvis minda. araRiarebisa

da ar daufaseblobis sindromi

gvaqvs qarTvelebs.

_ Tqven xarT adamiani, romelic

yovelTvis muSaobs, ar gamoirCeva

xmauriani gancxadebebiT,

politikuri Sexedulebe-

biT, statusebiT, sruliad apo-

litikuri xarT da, principSi,

yvela kolegasTan araCveulebrivi

damokidebulebiT xasiaT-

debiT. miuxedavad amisa, mainc

viRac gerCiT. rogor fiqrobT,

ratom? ra undaT Tqvengan?

_ vfiqrob, rom es wyena gamowveulia,

erT-erT gadacemaSi

Cemi armisvliT, radgan sxva arxze,

sxva gadacemaSi viyavi. pirvelad

maT Sevpirdi da, savaraudod,

Zalian ewyina im arxs, sadac

davibloke. mas Semdeg Sicvala

es arxi CemTan damokidebulebaSi.

es piradi wyenaa.

„qronika+~ aseve samodelo

saagento „katrinis” patara

modelebsac gaesaubra, romlebic

am videoklipis ori mTa-

vari gmiria:

anastasia bakuraZe _ modeli,

momRerali:

_ markusi Cemi ufrosi megobaria.

rac Tvali gavaxile, mas

Semdeg vxedav nini Sermadins,

Tamuna gomarTels, qeTi orjonikiZes,

markus metrevels, fatuna

buSiheds, kristi yifSiZes,

nana melqaZes, gia nikolaZes, maka

SalikaSvils, qeTi gomarTels,

veriko turaSvils, xaTuna kobaxiZes

da ar minda kidev vinme gamomrCes,

romlebic Zalian miyvars

da yovelTvis vakvirdebi

maT Semoqmedebas. yvelaze didi

misabaZi magaliTi ki Cemi dedikoa.

rac Seexeba, Tavad markus

metrevelTan muSaobas, is Zalian

miyvars, Tavisi saqmis profesionalia,

TiToeul detals akvirdeba

da maRal doneze maswavlis,

es ukve mesame simReraa, rac

markusTan Cavwere.

_ rogoria markusi muSaobis

procesSi?

_ masTan muSaoba komfortulia.

markusisTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania

yvela detali. magaliTad,

saukeTeso xmis Camweri

studia, kompozitori, poeti,

klipmeikeri, varcxniloba, meiqafi,

lokaciis adgilebi da a. S.

is, marTalia, Zalian momTxovnia,

magram ar miWirs masTan muSaoba

da davalebis Sesruleba, radgan

rogorc ukve aRvniSne, dabadebidan

vuyureb mas.

_ riT iyo gamorCeuli es sim-

Rera da videorgoli sxva dan-

arCeni namuSevrebisgan?

_ gamorCeuli imiT iyo, rom

pandemiis periodSi, maSin, roca

TiTqmis yvela saxlSi ijda, Cven

vmuSaobdiT. klipis gadaRebebi

erTi kviris ganmavlobaSi mimdinareobda

da naxevari saqarTvelo

SemoviareT. Zalian cxeloda,

magram me da mariami xmas ar

viRebdiT, piriqiT, vcdilobdiT,

yvelaferi kargad gagvekeTebina.

davfrinaviT caSi, davcuravdiT

iaxtiT zRvaSi da a. S. xuTi luqi

gvacvia klipSi, erT-erTi lakis

Sarvali da zedaa da, warmoidgineT,

40 gradus sicxeSi sul

svelebi viyaviT, magram xma ar

amogviRia, arc im dros SemeSinda,

rodesac markom piloti Secvala

da Tavad marTavda TviTmfrinavs.

Zalian miyvars is saqme,

rasac vakeTeb da imedi maqvs,

isev saxlebSi ar CaviketebiT.

_ dabolos, ras gvetyviT sa-

momavlo gegmebis Sesaxeb?

_ samomavlo gegmebi wlidan

wlamde TiTqmis gawerili mqonda.

sxvadasxva saerTaSoriso samodelo

konkursis gamarjvebuli

var, Sesabamisad, „sabavSvo Jiuris

wevrad” mimiwvies, agreTve

aqtiurad vmonawileob sxvadasxva

qveyanaSi gamarTul modis kvireulebze,

axla ki ar vici, sad

da rodis waval. saqarTveloSi

ki davdivar skolaSi, samodelo

saagento „katrinSi”, veriko

turaSvilis musikalur studia-

Si, musikos laliko beraZesTan,

me-10 musikalurSi, curvaze,

aseve qarTul brend „xaTkos” sabavSvo

xazis saxe var, maqvs gadaRebebi

uniWieres fotograf

vandekampTan da vemzadebi „samefo

karis mejlisisTvis”, romelic

sul male gaimarTeba da

Zalian bednieri viqnebi, Tu es

korona male gaqreba da yvelani

kargad viqnebiT.

mariam berZeniSvili _ mode-

li da momRerali:

_ markusTan simReris Cawera

imitom gadavwyvite, rom Zalian

miyvars rogorc pirovneba da

misi simRerebi.

_ rogoria muSaobis proces-

Si markusi. momTxovnia?

_ diax. rTulia, magram sasiamovnoa

masTan muSaoba. is Zalian

momTxovni da Sromismoyvarea.

muSaobis procesSi misgan Zalian

bevr rames swavlobs adamiani.

_ konkretulad, ras swav-

lob?

_ Tundac kamerasTan muSaobas,

moZraobas, bevr rCevas ga-

Zlevs, romelsac viTvaliswineb.

_ ra dagamaxsovrda, ra iyo

yvelaze saintereso gadaRebis

procesSi?

_ yvelaze saintereso momenti

maSin iyo, rodesac vertmfreniT

gavfrindiT, Tan pirvelad

vijeqi da dRemde momyveba

is emociebi. zogadad, es proeqti

gamorCeuli iyo, radgan klipi

gadaviRe cnobil momReral-

Tan. miuxedavad imisa, rom gada-

Rebis dros Zalian daviRaleT,

SedegiT kmayofili var.

_ mariam, samomavlo gegmebze

ras gvetyvi?

_ aqtiurad minda, rom gavagr-

Zelo muSaoba samodelo sfero-

Si, aseve vimRero, ar gavCerde,

Cavwero bevri simRera da warmatebuli

viyo.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

37

Tormetamde...


usiamovno iyoo, rom vTqvaT,

araferi gamova naTqvami. zedized

meore matCia, saqarTvelos nakrebi

mosagebs bolo sam wuTSi atans

qars.

CrdiloeT makedoniasTan mat-

Cis Semdeg SeiZleba msajobaze

saubari, magram aqamde ar unda miiyvano

saqme, miT umetes, kacnaklul

metoqesTan.

vladimir vaisma mis kvalifikaciasTan

dakavSirebul isedac

bevr kiTxvas gasuli erTi kviris

ganmavlobaSi Zaxilis niSani dausva.

sami Sexvedra. sami metoqe _

belarusi, somxeTi, Crd. makedonia

_ samive antifexburTis ki

arada, saerTod ver moTamaSe.

paradoqsi isaa, rom uefas axali

formati vaiss ara marto yoyoCobis,

jgufSi gapirvelebis

uflebas aZlevs.

mogebuli TamaSis bolo wuTebze

dacvaSi Cajdoma da panikuri

reaqciebi swored Cveni nakrebis

mTavari mwvrTnelis „damsaxurebaa”.

misi stilia belarusis, CrdiloeT

makedoniisa da Tundac

somxeTis lamis evrograndebad

Seracxva. roca baton vladimirs

preskonferenciaze vkiTxeT, _

amiT nakrebSi fsiqologiur klimats

xom ar afuWebTo? _ sruliad

federaciam iwyina, es mxolod

metoqis saTanadod dafasebaao.

CrdiloeT makedoniis fexburTi

ar gaiSvas magaze CrdiloeTiT.

amazrzenebi iyvnen maspin-

Zlebi, magram Cvenebma ra ifrines?

xviCa kvaracxelias goli Tu

ar dagvibindavs qomagur bunebas,

am gunds erTa ligis B divizion-

Si araferi esaqmeba.

ara, fexburTelebi sakmaod

da sakmarisze kargi

gvyavs. roca gundzea saubari,

Tavkaci igulisxmeba,

romlis eqsperimentebis

prognozireba SeuZlebelia.

saqarTvelos nakrebma

or uniaTo metoqesTan 4

qula gaaniava, mTavari mwvrTneli

ki, savaraudod,

or gasvliT SexvedraSi ori

quliT moiwonebs Tavs.

saboloo jamSi, azarts

ra vuTxari, Torem B divizionamde

Zalian Soria.

am matCma mxolod erTi

gviCvena: CrdiloeT makedonia

metismetad umweoa,

rom 12 noembris Sedegi eWvqveS

davayenoT. batono vais,

valdebuli xarT, is

umTavresi matCi moigoT,

Tumc amiT Tqven mimarT

kiTxvebs misxalic ar moakldeba.

mane barSi jeimsis blati

neimari pelea?

msoflios 2022 Cempionatis sakvalifikacio Sexvedra-

Si braziliam peru 4:2 dajabna. Sexvedra heT-TriqiT

daasrula neimarma, vinc jer ori penalti aqcia golad,

matCis bolosken ki TamaSidanac gaitana. amiT braziliis

nakrebSi gatanili golebis raodenoba 64-mde gaizar-

da da ronaldus oriT gadaaswro.

ufro meti goli braziliis saxeliT (77 goli) mx-

olod peles aqvs gatanili. iseTi piri uCans, neimari

mefesac gadaaswrebs da amas Tavisi axsna aqvs: Seicvala

saerTaSoriso turnirebis sakvalifikacio da finaluri

etapebis formati, ramac sanakrebo matCebis raodenoba

gazarda.

gacilebiT xSiria amxanaguri Sexvedrebic, Tumca es

mis miRwevas veranairad ver akninebs. axla neimars pe-

les miRwevis gaumjobesebis didi Sansi aqvs. saukeTeso

braziliel megoleTa xuTeulSi peles, neimarisa da

ronaldus garda romario (55 goli) da ziko (48 goli)

Sedian.

ramdenjerme mqonda „bedniereba”, umayureblo fexbur-

TisTvis tribunidan meyurebina. maT Soris erTi amas winaT,

TbilisSi gamarTuli saqarTvelo-belarusi iyo.

vaRiareb: sjobs, metoqis fanebiT gadaWedil stadionze

stumrad iTamaSo, vidre Sin, magram sicarielis genialuri

akustikis TanxlebiT.

sporti sanaxaobaa, romelsac mayurebeli da cocxali

emocia sWirdeba. teleekrans miRma darCenili emocia saTvalavSi

ar miiReba. samwuxarod, realoba aseTia, magram

STabeWdileba iqmneba, rom yvela moswrebazea.

klubebi saxelfaso fondis Semcirebas cdiloben, fexburTelebi

ki iseT moTxovnebs ayeneben, TiTqos sxva samyaroSi

cxovrobdnen. Tu klubma bileTebi da atributika

ver gayida, saidan fuli?

umayureblo fexburTs telemayurebelic rom naklebi

hyavs, xom faqtia?

anu sanaxaoba da emocia aRar aris, miTxovnebi ki izrdeba.

es ukve aRar gaxlavT sporti. es sufTa biznesia da

moedanzec sportsmenebis nacvlad biznesmenebi darbian,

romlebsac moednis miRma erTi batalioni elodeba agentebi,

menejerebi, finansuri konsultantebi, piradi

mcvelebi, fitnes-mwvrTnelebi da kulinarebi…

bavSvobaSi wakiTxuli maxsovs: braziliis nakrebi sastumroSi

daabinaves. mane garinCam fanjridan dainaxa, rom

mopirdapire mxares gverdigverd mdebare ori baridan erTi

gadaWedili iyo, meoreSi ki aravin Sedioda. Cavida da im

meore barSi Seabija. Camojda, ludi daukveTa, ylupi mowrupa

da sastumroSi dabrunda. baris patronma skami wamSi

kedelze miaWeda da daawera: „aq ijda garinCa”. bari wamSi

gaivso klientebiT. mere nakrebis menejerma hkiTxa:

mane, ase Zalian gindoda ludi?

ara, magram ase xom ufro samarTliania?

maSin fexburTi mxolod sporti iyo da manem siRatake-

Si daasrula cxovreba…

„klivlend kavaliersis” yofilma mwvrTnelma, devid

blatma, yofili Segirdis, lebron jeimsis Sesaxeb

isaubra da misi roli kalaTburTis istoriaSi Seafasa.

„yovelTvis mekiTxebian, iTvleba Tu ara lebroni

NBA-s yvela drois saukeTeso kalaTburTelad? Cemi

SexedulebiT, saukeTesod erTi kalaTburTelis aRiareba

ar SeiZleba. yvela aTwleuls Tavisi supergmiri hyav-

da da maTi Sedareba, minimum, araseriozulia. vfiqrob,

60-ian wlebSi aseTebi iyvnen uilt Cemberleni da bil

raseli; 70-ian wlebSi qarim abdul jabari; 80-ianebSi

mejiq jonsoni da lari berdi; 90-ianebs hyavda maikl

jordani, xolo 21-e saukunis saukeTeso jeimsi aris.

arian adamianebi, romlebic sxvagvarad fiqroben da

lebrons ar aRiareben da argumentebic mohyavT, Tumca

esec kanonzomieria yvelas Tavisi Sexeduleba aqvs.

ai, Tu visaubrebT lebronisa da entoni devisis

wyvilze, vfiqrob, isini saukeTesod ugeben erTmaneTs.

maTi erTad naTamaSevi pirveli sezoni idealuri iyo.

isini avseben erTmaneTs, ar Zunwoben sakuTari statis-

tikis gasaumjobeseblad da gunds wina planze ayeneben.

ra iqneba momavalSi, amasac erTad vnaxavT. amjerad, es

wyvili NBA-Si saukeTesoa”, ganacxada blatma.

38

38 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.


saqarTvelo nicaSi

saqarTvelos nakrebi Semodgomis

erTa Tasze (igive rva eri) asparezobisTvis

mzadebas ganagrZobs.

Tumca iqamde borjRalosnebs 23

oqtombers test matCi eliT edinburgSi,

SotlandisTan. TbilisSi

ki pirvel noembers ruseTis nakrebs

daupirispirdebian ragbi

evropis Cempionatis bolo matCSi.

saqarTvelos nakrebi safrange-

TSi, nicasTan axlos dabanakda.

Sinaur CempionatSi moTamaSe moragbeebs

legionerebic SeuerTdnen.

aqve arian levan maisaSvilis axali

asistentebi: sebastian bruno,

nil doki da devid hemfrizic.

axlaxan BBC-sTvis micemul interviuSi

devid hemfrizma Tqva:

„saqarTveloSi ragbi Zalian

popularulia, mowinave qarTveli

moragbeebi safrangeTis topdivizionebSi

TamaSoben. Semodgomis er-

Ta Tasze miRebuli gamocdileba

aucileblad gamoadgeba erovnul

nakrebs. am yvelafers dro unda.

saerTaSoriso sportSi iolad

araferi xdeba. axla saqarTvelo

elitisken pirvel nabijs dgams.

ara marto msoflios Tasze, aramed

mis miRmac gundma unda daamtkicos,

rom konkurentunariania da

progresireba SeuZlia”.

saqarTvelos nakrebi

pirveli xazi: mixeil nariaSvili

(monpelie), guram gogiCaSvili

(rasingi), leqso yaulaSvili (bordo),

Salva mamukaSvili (lester

taigersi), jaba bregvaZe (sanvulvzi),

giorgi WyoiZe (lokomotivi

penza), giorgi meliqiZe (stad franse),

luka azariaSvili (biarici).

meore xazi: nodar WeiSvili

(aia), grigor qerdiyoSvili (lelo),

laSa jaiani (armazi), giorgi

javaxia (oriaki)

mesame xazi: beqa gorgaZe (bordo),

beqa saRinaZe (oriaki), oTar giorgaZe

(brivi), giorgi TxilaiSvili

(baTumi), Tornike jalaRonia (biarici),

ioane iaSaRaSvili (baioni)

N:9: vasil lobJaniZe (brivi),

gela afrasiZe (monpelie), giorgi

margalitaZe (lelo)

N:10: Tedo abJandaZe (brivi),

laSa xmalaZe (baTumi)

N:12-13: merab SariqaZe (ugundo),

giorgi kveselaZe (armazi), Tamaz

mWedliZe (rueni), deme TaflaZe

(lelo)

N:11-14: akaki tabucaZe (lelo),

sandro Todua (baTumi), zurab

ZnelaZe (aia), sandro svaniZe (armazi)

N:15: soso maTiaSvili (akademia),

daviT niniaSvili (xvamli)

aurevs korona?

pasportSi

ar ixedeba

yvelaze meti

Cempionma izarala

uefas prezidentma aleqsandr Ceferinma gaisad gasa-

marT evropis Cempionatze isaubra. yvelaferi rigze ver

aris, koronavirusma bevri ram auria da SesaZloa, kidev

aurioso.

axla mxolod imis Tqma SegviZlia, rom evropis Cempionati

aucileblad Catardeba. Tumca SesaZloa, maspin-

Zeli qalaqebis ricxvi Semcirdes, anu evro-2020 ara 12

qalaqSi, aramed 11-Si an 6-Si an 5-Si gaimarTos. araa

gamoricxuli, rom erT konkretul qveyanaSi Catardes,

Tqva uefas prezidentma.

rogorc iciT, evro 2020 gaisad ki Catardeba, magram

saxeli SeinarCuna _ isev 2020 iqneba.

Cempionati 12 qalaqSia dagegmili, magram, didi alba-

TobiT, maspinZlebs baqo da sankt-peterburgi pirvele-

bi gamoakldebian…

SegaxsenebT: saqarTvelos nakrebi evropaze Tu gavida,

jgufSi ori matCi buqarestSi uwevs da erTi amsterdamSi.

Tumca rogorc davwereT, SesaZloa, yve-

laferi Tavdayira dadges.

gsmeniaT ezeldin bahaderze? veWvob, ara. is 74 wlis

egvipteli fexburTelia. diax, fexburTeli _ wina uqmeebze

ki egviptis Cempionatis mesame ligis matCSi iTamaSa

da penalti ver gaitana...

ezeldin bahaderi ginesis rekordebis wignSia. is 3

noembers 75 wlis xdeba. rom hkiTxes, _ isedac rekordsmeni

xar da amjerad ratomRa iTamaSeo? _ ase upasuxa: „jer

erTi, TamaSi momenatra. meorec, minda, rom rekordsmenad

davrCe da vinc Cems gadaswrebas moindomebs, saqme gavurTulo”.

bahaderma wleuls meored iTamaSa: pirvelad martSi

da maSin penalti gaitana. meored ki mekarem auRo _ epatieba.

koronavirusma didi gavlena moaxdina NBA-s gasul

sezonze. regularuli sezoni Semcirda, garda amisa, „bab-

lis” sistemiT erT qalaqSi gagrZelda da umayureblod

CamTavrda. cxadia, am yvelaferma, gundebis finansur

mdgomareobaze imoqmeda.

buRalteria imitom moigones, rom es yvelaferi da-

eTvalaT. hoda, specialistebi Camosxdnen da pandemiiT

gamowveuli krizisis danakargebi daiangariSes. jamurad,

30-ma klubma 694 milioni dolari dakarga.

yvelaze meti sezonis Cempionma, „los-anjeles leik-

ersma” izarala. marto saSinao matCebis dakargviT maT

xazinaSi damatebiT 52.7 milioni dolari ar Sevida. meore

adgilzea „niu-iork niqsi” 45 milioni, xolo mesa-

meze „golden steiti” 42.5 milioni.

yvelaze iolad „memfis grizli” gamoZvra maTi dan-

akargi 10.4 milionia.

N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

39

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

kviris horoskopi

verZi

moemzadeT romantikuli periodisTvis,

magram icodeT: albaToba imisa, rom

Tqvens winadadebaze dadebiT pasuxs miiRebT,

mcirea. am dReebSi sasargebloa

dakavdeT TviTganaTlebiT im sferoSi,

romelic yvelaze metad gainteresebT. es

periodi kargia maTTvisac, vinc didi xania

bavSvis yolaze ocnebobs.

kuro

gamoiCineT cnobismoyvareoba da Tqven

winaSe nebismieri kari gaixsneba. amasTan,

gaiTvaliswineT: amjerad raimes dasawyebad

didi Zalisxmeva dagWirdebaT. winaswar

gaTvaleT yvelaferi, rogor daiwyoT.

am kviraSi daZabuloba dRiTidRe moimatebs.

winaswar dagegmeT nebismieri Sexvedra.

tyupi

Tavdajerebuloba am periodSi sakmarisze

meti geqnebaT. isargebleT amiT da

Tqvens ufross anazRaurebis gazrda an

dawinaureba sTxoveT. SabaT-kvira maqsimalurad

sasargeblod gamoiyeneT. daasruleT

saSinao saqmeebi, daexmareT axloblebs,

maSinac ki, Tu isini daxmarebas ar

gTxoven.

kirCxibi

SeiZleba marto yofnis survili gagiCndeT.

sakuTar Tavs amaze uars nu etyviT.

axali nacnoboba am periodSi warmatebas

mogitanT. SabaT-kvira SemoqmedebiTad gaatareT.

am mimarTulebiT nebismieri wamowyeba

warmatebuli iqneba.

lomi

mzad iyaviT finansuri danakargebisTvis,

magram biujeti male Seivseba! ojax-

Si SeiZleba Cxubi da uTanxmoeba moxdes

seriozuli sakiTxis gamo, romlis mogvareba

uaxloes momavalSi SeuZlebeli

iqneba. samagierod bavSvebi gagaxareben: ara

marto sakuTari warmatebiT, aramed sa-

Tanado qceviTac.

qalwuli

droa gamoavlinoT Tqveni organizatoruli

unarebi. aiReT yvelaze Zneli samuSao

da nu daeWvdebiT, rom warmatebas

miaRwevT. fulTan dakavSirebiT am periodis

ganmavlobaSi yvelaferi SesaniSnavad

iqneba, ase rom, SegiZliaT sakuTari Tavi

raRaciT gaanebivroT.

saswori

iyaviT ufro loialuri Tqveni axloblebis

mimarT: maT axla Tqveni Tanadgoma

sWirdebaT. samsaxurSi damsaxurebuli warmateba

geliT. dae, zogierT kolegas nu

gauxardeba, amas yuradRebas nu miaqcevT.

am kviridan daiwyeT Tanxis dazogva: male

is didi SenaZenisTvis dagWirdebaT.


yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi

erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba

saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze

yovelkvireuli

gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari

pirveli gverdi:

1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;

meore-mesame gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;

Sida gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;

bolos wina gverdi:

1sm 2 _2 lari;

bolo gverdi:

1sm 2 _ 3 lari,

maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;

mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _

1000 sm 2;

reklama CanarTis saxiT:

A3 3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;

A4 4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;

mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)

kviris horoskopi

morieli

uaxloes dReebSi bevri Sexvedra gelodebaT:

sasixaruloc da usiamovnoc. miiReT

movlenebis nebismieri Sedegi. zogierTi

nacnobi Tqveni cxovrebidan unda amoSaloT.

Tu amas ar gaakeTebT, Ralati geliT.

am periodis ganmavlobaSi SeiZleba warmoudgeneli

daRliloba igrZnoT.

mSvildosani

kargi ganwyoba saSualebas mogcemT yvela

dawyebuli saqme daasruloT. erTader-

Ti, rac am periods daamZimebs – es aris

ojaxTan SesaZlo uTanxmoeba, magram male es

problemac mogvardeba. mzad iyaviT

datvirTuli grafikisa da samsaxurSi dayovnebisTvis.

axloblebi amisTvis winaswar

moamzadeT.

Txis rqa

varskvlavebi nebas grTaven, am periodSi

rTul saqmeebs mohkidoT xeli. ubralod,

SeecadeT fuli jer ar daxarjoT. minimum,

uari TqviT did sayidlebze. mzad iyaviT

sakuTar Tavze Worebis mosasmenad. gaxsovdeT,

saukeTeso reaqcia – reaqciis arqonaa.

merwyuli

nebismieri problema, romelic am periodSi

warmoiqmneba, TqvenTvis daitoveT,

aravis uTxraT maT Sesaxeb – Tavad

gaumklavdebiT. mzad iyaviT cvlilebebisTvis.

Tavidan isini SegaSineben, magram Semdeg

mixvdebiT: yvelaferi ukeTesad warimarTa.

urTierTobebi minavldeba. cota

moicadeT, sanam es periodi gaivlis.

Tevzebi

Tu am periodSi mniSvnelovani Sexvedrebi

gaqvT dagegmili, umjobesia gadadoT.

axla Sesaferisi momenti ar aris. daisveneT

da dauTmeT dro sakuTar Tavsa da Tqvens

ojaxs. amas seriozulad da guliT miudeqiT.

ar dazogoT fuli!

1 aSS dolari

3.2117

1 evro

3.7763

1 girvanqa sterlingi

4.1678

100 rusuli rubli

4.1332

amindi

samSabaTi

oTxSabaTi

xuTSabaTi

paraskevi

SabaTi

kvira

orSabaTi

Tbilisi

22-24 0

19-21 0

17-20 0

20-22 0

19-21 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

quTaisi

16-18 0

18-20 0

23-25 0

22-24 0

25-27 0

24-26 0

23-25 0

baTumi

18-20 0

20-23 0

21-23 0

20-22 0

21-24 0

22-23 0

21-23 0

zugdidi

17-19 0

19-20 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

24-26 0

25-26 0

23-25 0

gori

16-18 0

15-17 0

17-19 0

19-20 0

21-23 0

20-22 0

21-23 0

Telavi

25-27 0

18-20 0

19-21 0

21-23 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

24-26 0

foTi

18-20 0

20-22 0

21-23 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

22-24 0

21-22 0

40

saredaqcio kolegia

yvela ufleba daculia;

`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli

masalebis nebismieri saxiT

gamoyeneba da gavrceleba

redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad

akrZalulia!

gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul

masalebs aqvT sareklamo

xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia

SeiZleba ar daemTxves

redaqciis Sexedulebas.

mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)

marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22

rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06

SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50

mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55

injgia nene 591 71 39 98

sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 81

qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40

mamulaZe xviCa 598 41 12 26

deviZe daviT

stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;

redaqciis misamarTi:

Tbilisi, gudauris N3,

pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;

tel.: 294 69 77;

sareklamo ganyofileba,

gavrcelebis samsaxuri

Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10

gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~

ISSN 2346-8025

294 69 77;

qronikaqronika@gmail.com

40 N25 (327) 20.10-26.10.2020 w.

qronika+327

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