qronika+324

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com

yovelkvireuli gazeTi

gamodis samSabaTobiT N22 (324) 29.09

09.20

.2020

fasi 2 lari

gv. 4

rogor mokles

`qarTuli

ocnebis~

aqtivisti 2012

wels da ra

kavSiri aqvs

mkvlelobasTan

enzel mkoians?

Tornike SaraSeniZe:

ìvaniSvili

xvdeba _

misi

gamoCena

xalxs

gaaRizianebs~

gv. 6

Tamar mayaSvili:

`52 welia,

saburTaloze

vcxovrob

da

araferi

Secvlila~

gv. 30

valeri gelbaxiani:

`saakaSvils Zalian martivad

SeuZlia, rom saqarTvelos

premier-ministri gaxdes~

gv. 2

gv. 2

zviad gogiaSvili: `saxelmwifo

TaRliTebis interesebs icavs~

gv. 24

kote ioseliani:

`qarTuli

ocneba~

saakaSvilSi

realur

konkurents

xedavs~

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

nato CxeiZe:

`soflebSi

xalxs zeTisa

da brinjis

nacvlad ori

cali pirbade

misces!!~

gv. 8 gv. 10 gv. 16

kote kemularia:

òri-sami dRe

macadeT da

òcnebis~ mama

abraamis batknebze

srul simarTles

gaigebT!~

1


òpoziciuri partiebidan yvelaze didi

bolo wuTamde opozicia koal-

giorgi abaSiZe

iciur mTavrobaze saubrobda, Tumca

ramdenime dRis winaT saqarTvelos

mesame prezidentma am sakiTxze skandaluri gancxadeba gaa-

keTa. kerZod, erT-erT satelevizio interviuSi saakaSvilma

calsaxad Tqva, rom partiebs Soris koalicias ver xedavs: „me

vxedav koalicias sazogadoebis. me saerTod ar vxedav partiul

koalicias, me saerTod ar mjera politikuri partiebisa da partiukebis,

saerTod ar mjera zogadad politikanobisa da poli-

tikosobis viwro gagebiT. am arCevnebze umravlesobas aiRebs an

„nacionaluri moZraoba”, an saqarTvelo daiRupeba. Cveni gamarjvebis

Semdeg iqneba farTo sazogadoebrivi interesebiT war-

modgenili mTavroba, iq SeiZleba iyos sxva partiebic”.

saakaSvilis zemoxsenebuli

gamosvla sxva opoziciurma partiebma,

cxadia, upasuxod ar datoves

da mxolod miSa ki ara,

mTeli „nacionaluri moZraoba”,

lamis, cocxlad daasamares.

amasobaSi, premierobis msurvelTa

ricxvic gaizarda, anu Tu

aqamde vicodiT, rom qveynis ministrTa

kabinetis meTaurobis

survili giorgi vaSaZes, mixeil

saakaSvils, „lelosa” da „evropul

saqarTvelos” hqondaT, axla

am sias Salva naTelaSvilic miemata.

„me mzad var, davikavo saqarTvelos

premier-ministris posti,

Tu iqneba xalxis neba, mxardaWera

da RmerTis neba, ris Semdegac

meore dRes Cven gaviRvi-

ZebT sruliad sxva saqarTvelo-

Si, sadac ar iqnebian mSieri, gaWirvebuli,

Rataki, uimedo, umuSevari

da qveynidan gaqcevis msurveli,

daCagruli, usamarTloba-

Si mcxovrebi, represirebuli

adamianebi”, _ ganacxada naTelaSvilma

partiis proporciuli siis

wardgenisas.

erTi sityviT, win friad saintereso

peripetiebi gvelodeba.

am procesebs valeri gelbaxiani

„ori oqros mandatis” TamaSs eZaxis,

rac imas niSnavs, rom 31 oqtombris

Semdeg saqarTvelos premieri

SesaZloa, im partiis warmomadgeneli

gaxdes, romelic parlamentSi

yvelaze cota mandatiT

Seva.

amasTan, „qronika+”-sTan

saubrisas gamocdili iuristi

imis albaTobasac uSvebs, rom

opoziciam koaliciuri umravlesobisa

da, Sesabamisad, mTavrobis

dakompleqteba ver moaxerxos da

gazafxulze dRis wesrigSi dadges

vadamdeli saparlamento

arCevnebis Catarebis sakiTxi.

„qronika+~ gTavazobT inter-

vius valeri gelbaxianTan:

_ batono valeri, rogor

xarT, arCevnebamde erTi TviT

adre rogori winaTgrZnoba

gaqvT?

_ qveyanaSi seriozuli dadebiTi

Zvrebia mosalodneli.

_ e. i., imedovnebT, rom „ocneba”

xelisuflebaSi mesame va-

diT veRar darCeba?

_ ki ar vimedovneb, darwmunebuli

var, rom am arCevnebSi

qarTveli xalxi gaimarjvebs!

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom „ocneba”

arCevnebs ar gaayalbebs? sx-

vaTa Soris, erT-erTi bolo ga-

mokiTxviT, yvela maJoritarul

olqSi mmarTveli partiis kandi-

dati liderobs.

_ lideroba ras niSnavs?

_ anu pirvel adgilzea. yov-

el SemTxvevaSi, „rusTavi 2-is”

dakveTiT britanelebis mier

Catarebuli kvleva aseTia...

_ simarTle giTxraT, ar vici,

es kvleva sandoa Tu ara, miT

umetes, rom saqarTvelos sxvadasxva

kuTxeSi davdivar da sruliad

sxva suraTs vxedav. xalxis

ganwyoba xelisuflebis mimarT

absoluturad uaryofiTia da

ramdenic undaT, imdeni kvleva

Caataron.

_ xelisuflebis uaryofiTi

ganwyoba imas ar niSnavs, rom

xalxs opozicia moswons.

_ diax, magram opoziciis mimarT

xmebi gaSlilia.

_ anu?

_ erT opozicias xmas aravin

aZlevs, magram opoziciuri partiebidan

zogi erT procents

miiRebs, zogi _ 5-s, zogi _ 15-s

da a. S.

_ e. i., es e. w. gaSlili xmebi

koaliciuri mTavrobis Camoyal-

ibebis safuZveli gaxdeba, ara?

_ diax. „ocnebam” arCevnebi

romc gaayalbos, gardauvalia,

rom amas eskalacia an vadamdeli

arCevnebi ar mohyves. es ki amTaviTve

imas niSnavs, rom „ocneba”

Zalauflebas veRar moipovebs!

_ SeiZleba, magram mixeil

saakaSvili koaliciur mTavrobas

gamoricxavs, anu misi mtki-

cebiT, axali mTavroba mTlianad

„nacionalurma moZraobam” unda

daakompleqtos. es realisturi

scenaria, batono valeri?

_ saakaSvili am gancxadebas

zustad iseTive ritorikiT ake-

Tebs, ra ritorikiTac „ocneba”

ambobs, am arCevnebs me movigebo.

saerTod, Tu arCevnebs „nacionaluri

moZraoba” moigebs, zustad

ise moxdeba, rasac saakaSvili

ambobs, Tumca misi es gancxadeba

ufro xmebis mobilizebazea

gaTvlili. ar vici, aqedan ra gamova,

magram dRevandeli monacemebiT,

„nacionalur moZraobas”

cudi mdgomareoba namdvilad ar

aqvs. yovel SemTxvevaSi, rasac me

vuyureb, opoziciuri partiebidan

yvelaze didi mxardaWera

swored „nacionalur moZraobas”

eqneba.

_ sxvaTa Soris, saakaSvilis

zemoxsenebul gancxadebas opo-

ziciaSi didi aJiotaJi mohyva.

Sesabamisad, saqme iqamde xom ar

miva, rom „antiocnebelebi” br-

Zolas „ocnebas” ki ara, erTmaneTs

dauwyeben da es opozici-

urad ganwyobil eleqtoratze

valeri gelbaxiani:

`saakaSvili

Tu saWiroeba

iqneba,

dabrundeba, Tu

ar iqneba, ar

dabrundeba~

uaryofiTad imoqmedebs?

_ ar mgonia, rom opoziciurad

ganwyobilma eleqtoratma gadawyvetileba

amis mixedviT miiRos.

opoziciurad ganwyobil adamianebs

TavianTi xedva aqvT da ama

Tu im partiasac swored amis

mixedviT aZleven xmas. xom iciT,

zogs viri moswons da zogs _

viris patroni.

_ ukacravad, arCevnebTan viri

da misi patroni ra SuaSia?

_ imis Tqma minda, rom gemovnebaSi

veravis SevedavebiT da

ver vetyviT, ama Tu im partias

vin ratom uWers mxars, magram ise

araa, rom xalxis ganwyoba imis

mixedviT iqmnebodes, televiziiT

vin ras ityvis. politikaSi elementaruli

WeSmariteba arsebobs.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ romeli partia daarwmunebs

sazogadoebas, rom misi xedvebi

Tu programebi ufro realuria

da xalxTanac axlos dgas? _ gadamwyveti

swored esaa, Torem

opoziciaSi rac unda Cxubi iyos,

is, visac ar unda, rom „ocnebas”

xma misces, mainc ar dauWers mxars,

anu opoziciis kinklaobiT

„ocnebas” araferi emateba! sxva-

Ta Soris, yvelaferi es Taviseburi

konkurenciaa. aba, warmoudgenelia,

arCevnebis dros konkurencia

rom ar iyos.

_ ise, batono valeri, Tqveni

ar vici, piradad me ki mgonia,

rom wlevandeli saarCevno kampania,

winamorbedebisgan gansxvavebiT,

erTob mSvidad mim-

dinareobs.

_ jer ra iciT, mSvidad mim-

`Tu `qarTuli ocnebisTvis~ SeiZleboda, rom

safrangeTis moqalaqe salome zurabiSvili

prezidenti gamxdariyo da igive safrangeTis

moqalaqe biZina ivaniSvili - premieri, maSin

ratom ar SeiZleba, rom premieri saakaSvilic

gaxdes? erTi sityviT, rTuli barierebi

arsebobs, magram Tu politikuri neba iqneba,

samarTlebrivad yvelafris gakeTeba SeiZleba~

dinareobs Tu ara? jer siebi

bolomde dazustebuli ar aris.

es procesi or dReSi dasruldeba

da amis Semdeg vnaxavT, ra moxdeba.

SeiZleba, eqscesebic iyos.

_ muSti-krivs, dedis ginebasa

da „ocnebis” mxridan provoka-

ciebs elodebiT?

_ me ki ara, amas aSS-is saelCo

da sxva samsaxurebic amboben, rom

saqarTvelos xelisufleba destabilizaciis

wyaros warmoadgens

da amitom sazogadoeba

frTxilad unda iyos, anu roca

saarCevno kampaniis piki iqneba da

„ocneba” dainaxavs, arCevnebs agebs,

iseT xerxebs mimarTavs, rom

Zalaufleba SeinarCunos, magram

meore sakiTxia, Tundac am xerxebiT

Zalauflebas SeinarCunebs

Tu vera.

_ weRan vadamdeli arCevnebi

axseneT da, sxvaTa Soris, bevri

varaudobs, rom meaTe mowvevis

parlamenti vadas ver amowuravs

da gazafxulze vadamdeli arC-

evnebi Catardeba. batono val-

eri, Tqveni azriT, vadamdelis

daniSvnis sababi ra SeiZleba

gaxdes?

_ Tu opozicia umravlesobasa

da, Sesabamisad, mTavrobaze ver

Camoyalibda, amas, yvela SemTxvevaSi,

vadamdeli arCevnebi mohyveba.

_ dRevandeli gadasaxedidan,

opozicia mTavrobaze SeTanxme-

bas moaxerxebs?

_ TiTqmis yvela opoziciur

partias premierobis sakuTari

kandidati hyavs da yvela Tavis

ministrTa kabinetze, ase vTqvaT,

ocnebobs. es ki, saboloo jamSi,

xels SeuSlis, rom axali parlamenti

stabiluri ar iyos da, metic,

uunaro aRmoCndes. SeiZleba,

konsensusi Sedges, magram axali

parlamenti yovel wuTs mainc

daSlisa da vadamdeli arCevnebis

Catarebis winaSe idgeba. mokled,

mgonia, rom am arCevnebiT

myari an SeTanxmebuli koalici-

2 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


mxardaWera `nacionalur moZraobas~ aqvs!~

uri umravlesoba miviRoT.

_ vadamdeli arCevnebi Cveni

saxelmwifosTvis kargi iqneba

Tu cudi?

_ yvela qveyana, sadac aseTi

krizisi da gardamavali periodia,

cdilobs, rom myari da stabiluri

xelisufleba Seqmnas, anu

vadamdeli arCevnebi safrTxis

Semcveli arsad yofila da arc

CvenTan iqneba. piriqiT, vadamdeli

arCevnebi stabilizaciis garantiaa.

gavixsenoT, magaliTad,

italia an saberZneTi _ albaT,

gaxsovT, sami-oTxi wlis winaT ra

dReSic iyvnen, magram dalagdnen.

_ ki batono, magram italiisa

Tu saberZneTisgan gansxvavebiT,

saqarTvelos ekonomika zomaze

myifea. im fonze, roca lari

rekordulad ufasurdeba, vad-

amdeli arCevnebi uaresad ar

dagvaqcevs?

_ saberZneTSi bevrad cudi

viTareba iyo _ defoltis winaSe

idga, magram vadamdeli arCevnebiT

politikuri stabilizacia

daiwyo da procesic ne-nela dalagda.

sxvaTa Soris, igive procesebi,

Tavis droze, espaneTSic

iyo da portugaliaSic. mokled,

vadamdeli arCevnebi ekonomikisTvis

SeiZleba, safrTxea, magram

es dauZleveli faqtori araa.

saerTod, ekonomikisTvis politikuri

stabluroba yovelTvis

garantiaa da es gza gasavleli

gvaqvs. yvelaferi es martivad,

ucbad da xelis erTi mosmiT ar

moxdeba...

_ maSasadame, 31 oqtombris

Semdeg qarTul politikaSi

ufro saintereso procesebi

daiwyeba, ara?

_ ra Tqma unda. xalxi ufro

met Zalas igrZnobs da ufro

jansaRi procesebi daiwyeba.

Cven xom beladomania gvWirs _

amas vera da ver avcdiT. am krizisidan

gamosvliT ki, pirvel rig-

Si, es beladomania moispoba da

Tavisufali konkurencia daiwyeba.

Tavisufal konkurenciaSi ki,

cxadia, yvela politikur Zalas

meti Sansi eqneba, rom xalxis realuri

ndoba da, Sesabamisad,

Zalauflebac moipovos. dRemde

Catarebul nebismier arCevnebSi

gadamwyveti mniSvneloba erT

qarizmatul liders hqonda. axla

swored es suraTi icvleba,

anu jansaRdeba.

_ e. i. wlevandel arCevnebze

mixeil saakaSvilis aqtiurobas

gadamwyveti mniSvneloba aRar

eqneba?

_ saakaSvili Tavisi partiis

àSS-is saelCo da sxva samsaxurebic amboben,

rom saqarTvelos xelisufleba

destabilizaciis wyaros warmoadgens da

amitom sazogadoeba frTxilad unda iyos, anu

roca saarCevno kampaniis piki iqneba da

òcneba~ dainaxavs, arCevnebs agebs, iseT

xerxebs mimarTavs, rom Zalaufleba

SeinarCunos, magram meore sakiTxia, Tundac am

xerxebiT Zalauflebas SeinarCunebs Tu vera~

mxardaWeraze muSaobs. is rom

gaCerdes da tempi Seanelos,

bunebrivia, viRac ifiqrebs, „nacionalebi”

arCevnebs, mgoni, ageben

da gulgatexilebi amitom

ariano. saakaSvili saarCevno kampaniis

dros aseT suraTs ar Seqmnis.

piriqiT, muxts rac SeiZleba,

maRla awevs da Seecdeba, sakuTari

amomrCeveli daarwmunos,

rom am arCevnebs swored „nacionaluri

moZraoba” igebs.

_ sxvaTa Soris, saakaSvilma,

roca ganacxada, vbrundebio,

muxti, marTlac, awia, Tumca maleve

ganacxada, maSin davbrundebi,

roca qveyanaSi destabili-

zaciis safrTxe ar iarsebebso

da am meore gancxadebam igive

„nacmoZraobis” gulSematkivre-

bi, cota ar iyos, daabnia...

_ saakaSvils ar uTqvams,

saqarTveloSi xval vbrundebio.

iciT, es rogori gancxadeba iyo?

_ rogori?

_ saakaSvili Tu saWiroeba

iqneba, dabrundeba, Tu ar iqneba,

ar dabrundeba.

_ Tqveni azriT, dRes saakaS-

vilis saqarTveloSi dabruneb-

is saWiroeba arsebobs?

_ dRes qveyanaSi yovel mxriv

umZimesi viTarebaa _ pandemia,

ekonomikuri kolafsi, politikuri

aSliloba da aseve arastabiluri

politikuri garemos

Seqmnaa mosalodneli. aseT situaciaSi

saakaSvili maprovocirebeli

iqneba Tu ara, es Tavad

maszea damokidebuli, Tumca is

bavSvi ar aris _ saxelisuflebo,

ase vTqvaT, rgoli gavlili aqvs

da saxelmwifos problemebi, ase

Tu ise, icis.

_ diax, magram es ra SuaSia?

_ saakaSvils raSi awyobs, rom

saqarTveloSi situacia airios,

daiZabos da umarTavi gaxdes?

sxvaTa Soris, es aravis interes-

Si ar Sedis.

_ batono valeri, iqidan ga-

momdinare, rom gamocdili

iuristi xarT, erT kiTxvas dag-

isvamT: „nacionalurma” moZraobam

mixeil saakaSvili, romelzedac

saqarTveloSi e. w. Sida Zeb-

naa gamocxadebuli da romelic

am qveynis moqalaqec araa, pre-

`lukaSenkos xelisufleba myari iyo, magram

biZinas xelisuflebaze ver vityviT, rom

myariao. es moryeuli xelisuflebaa da isic

ki waaqcevs, suli rom SeuberoT. ar mgonia,

aseTma aramyarma xelisuflebam represiebi

daiwyos - saamisod energia ar eyofa~

mierobis kandidatad daasaxela.

vTqvaT, 31 oqtombers arCevnebi

yofilma mmarTvelma partiam

moigo. ra meqanizmi arsebobs,

rom ucxo qveynis Zebnili mo-

qalaqe, anu mixeil saakaSvili,

Cveni premieri gaxdes?

_ saakaSvils Zalian martivad

SeuZlia, rom saqarTvelos premier-ministri

gaxdes.

_ amixseniT, rogor martivad?

_ Tu opozicia umravlesobis

Seqmnas moaxerxebs da am umravlesobaSi

dominanti „nacionaluri

moZraoba” iqneba, maSin parlamentis

pirvelsave sxdomaze

saakaSvils im braldebebs, romelic

wayenebuli aqvs, mouxsnian.

_ parlaments braldebebis

moxsnasTan ra xeli aqvs? saami-

sod xom sasamarTloa saWiro?

_ mesmis, magram arsebobs parlamentis

cnobili dadgenileba,

romelic politpatimrebs exeba,

anu saakaSvili politpatimrad an

politikur devnilad iqneba miCneuli

da mis winaaRmdeg yvelanairi

devna parlamentis dadgenilebis

Sesabamisad Sewydeba. garda

amisa, meore gzac arsebobs.

_ kerZod?

_ axal parlaments mTavrobis

dasakompleqteblad 20 dRe aqvs.

amitom sasamarTlo sxdoma daCqarebulad

Catardeba da savsebiT

SesaZlebelia, rom sasamarTlom

saakaSvils yvela braldeba

erT kviraSi mouxsnas. amis Semdeg

ki is saqarTvelos moqalaqeobis

aRdgenas moiTxovs.

_ ra garantia arsebobs, rom

prezidenti salome zurabiSvili,

romlis qarTul poli-

tikaSi damkvidrebac swored

saakaSvilis damsaxurebaa da

romelic dRes miSas dasanaxad

ver itans, mas saqarTvelos mo-

qalaqeobas aRudgens?

_ Tu zurabiSvili saakaSvils

saqarTvelos moqalaqeobas ar

aRudgens, maSin es saqme sasamarTloSi

gasaCivrdeba da sasamarTlo

prezidentis brZanebas gaauqmebs.

_ yvelaferi es droSi gai-

weleba. amitomac zogs hgonia,

rom saakaSvilis premierobis

kandidatad dasaxelebiT „nacio-

nalurma moZraobam”, ubralod,

sakuTari amomrCevlis mobili-

zeba moaxdina, Torem miSa

saqarTveloSi dabrunebas Sesa-

Zloa, saerTodac ar apirebs...

_ ki batono, arsebobs konstituciuri

SezRudva, rom premieri

saqarTvelos moqalaqe unda

iyos, magram xom gvaqvs precedentebi,

roca maRal Tanamdebobaze

iseTi piri dainiSna, romelic

saqarTvelos moqalaqe ar iyo?

_ magaliTad?

_ igive prezidenti, anu Tu

„qarTuli ocnebisTvis” SeiZleboda,

rom safrangeTis moqalaqe

salome zurabiSvili prezidenti

gamxdariyo da igive safrangeTis

moqalaqe biZina ivaniSvili _

premieri, maSin ratom ar SeiZleba,

rom premieri saakaSvilic

gaxdes?

erTi sityviT, rTuli barierebi

arsebobs, magram Tu politikuri

neba iqneba, samarTlebrivad

yvelafris gakeTeba SeiZleba.

sxvaTa Soris, parlaments premierobis

kandidatis wardgenis,

ase vTqvaT, ori vada aqvs. pirveli

vada 7-dRian proceduras

iTvaliswinebs, meore vada ki _

orkvirians. saerTo jamSi, 21 dRe

gamodis. Tu parlamenti prezidentis

mier wardgenil premieris

kandidaturas Caagdebs, amis

Semdeg kidev axali 21-dRiani

procedura daiwyeba. Tu parlamentma

premieris kandidatura

meoredac Caagdo, aseT SemTxveva-

Si vadamdeli saparlamento arCevnebi

unda dainiSnos.

_ ise, raki momaval premierobaze

vsaubrobT, barem gkiTxavT

_ TiTqmis yvela opoziciur

partias premierobis saku-

Tari kandidati hyavs. ramdenime

dRis win am Tanamdebobaze pretenzia

gamoTqva „leiboristebis”

lidermac _ Salva naTelaS-

vilis TqmiT, igi mzadaa, rom

saqarTvelos mTavrobis meTau-

ri gaxdes. mokled, batono valeri,

premierobis uamravi kan-

didatia.

_ diax, yvelas premierobis

Tavisi kandidati hyavs _ „lelodan”

dawyebuli, „startegia aRmaSenebliT”

damTavrebuli. yvela

es gancxadeba imazea mibmuli,

Tu ra fasi daedeba im mandatebs,

romelsac TiToeuli partia

arCevnebSi miiRebs, anu arsebobs

albaToba, rom premieri yvelaze

mcire zomis partiis warmomadgeneli

gaxdes.

_ es rogor?

_ davuSvaT, samma opoziciurma

partiam koalicia Seqmna, magram

imisTvis, rom mTavroba daakopleqtos,

ori mandati akldeba.

aseT SemTxvevaSi es ori mandati

„oqros mandati” iqneba, anu

am ori „oqros mandatis” mqone

partia ityvis, ki batono, koaliciaSi

Semoval, magram premieris

Tanamdeboba momeciT. Tu ar momceT,

maSin meore banakSi wavalo.

erTi sityviT, politikuri Tama-

Si „oqros mandatebiT” daiwyeba.

am TamaSs, gnebavT, spekulacia

davarqvaT. im adamianebs, romlebic

Tavs premierobis kandidatad

asaxeleben, albaT, es suraTi

aqvT warmodgenili. mokled,

premier-ministris bedi SesaZloa,

erTma mandatma gadawyvitos!

_ maSasadame, reziume rom

gavakeToT, cudi araferi

gvelodeba, batono valeri?

_ ara! erTaderTi cudi varianti

SesaZloa, is iyos, rom biZinam

arCevnebi gaayalbos da lukaSenkos

scenari gaimeoros, magram

sxva saqmea, biZinas xelisufleba

lukaSenkos scenars gau-

Zlebs Tu vera.

_ ratom ver gauZlebs?

_ lukaSenkos xelisufleba

myari iyo, magram biZinas xelisuflebaze

ver vityviT, rom myariao.

es moryeuli xelisuflebaa

da isic ki waaqcevs, suli rom

SeuberoT. ar mgonia, aseTma aramyarma

xelisuflebam represiebi

daiwyos _ saamisod energia ar

eyofa.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

3

_ me var diana aruTuniani,

levan vardanianis da. 2012 wels

Cemi Zma iyo opoziciaSi, ninowmindaSi

„qarTuli ocnebis” aqtivisti

gaxldaT. is iyo erT-erTi

pirveli, romelic „ocnebas” SeuerTda.

arCevnebamde da arCevnebis

dros masTan xSirad iyo Semo-

Tavazebebi da muqarebi „nacionaluri

moZraobidan”, rom an gaCerebuliyo,

an maT mxares gadasuliyo.

am dros „nacionalur

moZraobas” Cvens regionSi enzel

mkoiani warmoadgenda. levani saxlSi

sul ambobda, rom mudmivad

uTvalTvalebdnen, yoveli misi

wasvla ninowmindidan Tbilisisken

saxifaTo iyo.

im dRes, roca is scemes, saxl-

Si marto viyavi bavSvebTan erTad.

CemTan movida Zalian SeSinebuli

erTi misi megobari da mekiTxeboda,

_ sadaa levani? vurekav da

ver vukavSirdebio. Cems Zmas sami

telefoni da sxvadasxva nomeri

hqonda. me movaxerxe mis erT-erT

nomerze darekva da vuTxari, rom

viRac roma mas saxlSi elodeboda.

Cemma Zmam miTxra, roma saxl-

Si ar SemeSva, ezoSi dalodeboda

da 15 wuTSi movidoda. asec moxda.

movida Cemi Zma. maT taqsiSi

daZabuli saubari hqondaT. roma

aSkarad SeSinebuli iyo, es ukanaskneli

mxolod ramdenjerme

myavda nanaxi, roca saarCevnod

levans exmareboda. amis Semdeg

Cemi Zma saxlSi Semovida da miTxra,

rom is sadRac gamoiZaxes,

Tan gamafrTxila, saxlSi rom davbrundebi

da karze davakakuneb,

maSinve ar gamiRoT, mxolod meore

dakakunebisa da daZaxebis Semdeg

gaaReTo. telefonzec roca

dagirekavT, Tu Cavaxveleb, e. i.

safrTxeSi var da es niSani iqnebao.

Cems sityvebs aRar daujer-

eliso kilaZe

599 17 12 12

levan vardaniani „qarTuli ocnebis”

wevri 2011 wels, politikaSi biZina ivaniSvilis gamoCen-

isTanave, gaxda da arc imdroindel xelisuflebas Sepuebia

da arc skandalurad cnobil enzel mkoians, romelic maSin-

deli xelisuflebis saxe iyo samcxe-javaxeTSi da aqtiurad

ibrZoda „qarTuli ocnebis” winaaRmdeg. Tumca amas xeli ar

SeuSlia „ocnebisTvis”, mkoiani sakuTar rigebSi mieRoT da

mis warsulze Tvali daexuWaT.

ra viTarebaSi gardaicvala

levan vardaniani da ra kavSiri

aqvs mis mkvlelobasTan enzel

mkoians? rva wlis mere „qronika+”-sTan

dumils arRvevs gardacvlilis

da _ diana aruTuni-

ani:

_ diana, gmadlobT, rom interviuze

damTanxmdiT da sajar-

od gadawyviteT, Tqveni ojaxis

tragediaze „qronika+~-is meSve-

obiT isaubroT.


oT, rasac getyviTo.

dedaCemi mezobelTan iyo. dabindda,

CemTan movida adgilobrivi

policiis TanamSromeli,

romelmac miTxra, rom Cemi Zmis

ucxouri pasporti unda, magram

me uari vuTxari, _ sanam Cemi Zma

ar damirekavs, pasports ar mogcemT-meTqi.

policieli gabrazda,

_ me Tqveni naTesavi var, daxmareba

minda, ar mendobi da ra xdebao?!

me isev uari vuTxari, _ Zmas

ver vukavSirdebi, 9 saaTze gavida

da 11 saaTia, jer isev ar Cans,

sanam Tavad ar damirekavs, pasports

ar gagatanT-meTqi. _ kargi.

waval da vecdebi, Sens Zmas dagalaparakoo,

_ miTxra policielma.

cota xanSi mirekavs ucnobi

nomeri, Cemi Zmis xma ki gavigone,

magram ver vicani. ramdenjerme

CavekiTxe, _ namdvilad Sen xarmeTqi?

razedac gabrazebulma

mipasuxa, _ rasac geubnebian, is

gaakeTeo da Tan Caaxvela. es iyo

niSani imisa, rom is safrTxeSi

imyofeboda.

me vifiqre, radgan policieli

Cveni naTesavia, Cems Zmas exmareba-meTqi.

isic ki miTxres, rom

Cems Zmas „ocneba” emuqreboda,

misi mokvla undodaT da policia

exmarebao. dedaCemis dabrunebis

Semdeg mTeli Ramis ganmavlobaSi

vrekavdiT Cemi Zmis

nomrebze, magram mas yvela telefoni

gamorTuli hqonda. diliT

mezoblebi Semovidnen, kiTxvebs

gvisvamdnen, _ levani sadaao? magram

Cven araferi vicodiT. amasobaSi

gairkva, rom goga Jvania

da beJan gunava Camovidnen ninowmindaSi,

Cems Zmas eZebdnen, mitingic

ki moawyves.

imave Rames CvenTan movidnen,

karis Semomtvrevac undodaT,

policiac movida, _ sadaa Tqveni

Svilio? magram es iyo speqtakli.

roca Cems Zmas scemdnen, mTeli

policia iq iyo. mogvianebiT, Cemi

Zma ambobda, rom policiis ufrosi

arsen petrosiani adgilze imyofeboda,

marTalia, is piradad

ar scemda, magram iqve idga da

yvelafers uyurebda.

dedaCemma policias hkiTxa, _

sadaa Cemi Svili, ra daaSava, miTxariTo?

magram aravin araferi

gviTxra. ubralod, agvixsnes, rom

Cemma Zmam raRac daaSava da ainteresebdaT,

saxlSi iyo Tu ara.

Cveni protestis mere, rom qalebsa

da bavSvebs gvaSinebdnen, policielebi

wavidnen. maT ainteresebdaT,

vicodiT Tu ara momxdarze.

_ rodis gaigeT simarTle?

_ simarTle gavigeT meore

diliT, roca saxlSi mezoblebi

movidnen. erTma naTesavma, romelmac

mTxova, misi vinaoba ar

damesaxelebina, miTxra, rom Cemi

Zma somxeTis mimarTulebiT waiyvanes.

meore diliT isev movidnen

policielebi da raRac dokumentebi

moitanes. radgan qarTuli

ar viciT, maT gviTxres, rom xeli

unda mogvewera dokumentebze,

TiTqos Cemi Zma nebayoflobiT

rogor mokles

`qarTuli

ocnebis~ aqtivisti

2012 wels da ra

kavSiri aqvs

mkvlelobasTan

enzel mkoians?

wavida somxeTSi. sinamdvileSi,

sul sxva rames gveubnebodnen.

Cvenma naTesavma gagvafrTxila,

rom xeli araferze mogvewera.

amis mere Cemma Zmam Tavad dagvireka

somxuri nomriT. rodesac

is somxeTSi gadaiyvanes, pasporti

waarTves, rom ukan veRar dabrunebuliyo.

Cemma Zmam miTxra,

rom aravis ndoba ar SeiZleboda,

radgan mas da mTel Cvens ojaxs

uTvalTvalebdnen. am zaris mere

CvenTan isev is naTesavi policieli

movida, _ diana, levans sxva

nomeri xom ar aqvs, saidanac

girekavs, iqneb, es nomeri me momce,

rom mas dabrunebaSi davexmaroo.

magram am momentisTvis

Cems Zmas ukve gafrTxilebuli

vyavdi da mas nomeri davumale.

somxeTidan levanma fotoebi

gamoagzavna, Cemi Zma sastikad iyo

nacemi. fotoebi mitanili gvaqvs

prokuraturaSi, magram gveubnebian,

rom enzel mkoiani deputatia

da misi dakiTxvis ufleba

ar aqvT. roca Cemi Zma gaitaces

da SenobaSi Seiyvanes, mas zurgidan

TavSi Sampanuris boTli

Caartyes da igi waiqca. es iyo hamlet

nanaiani. Semdeg ocdaaTi kaci

wixlebiT Sedga da scema. erTaderTi,

rac moaswro, xelebiT

Tavi daifara, rom TavSi wixlebi

ar moxvedroda, guli misdioda,

wyliT asulierebdnen da xelaxla

scemdnen, roca gons modioda.

_ saidan iciT, rom Tqveni Zmis

cemaSi enzel mkoiani monawile-

obda?

_ Cemma Zmam Tavad moyva, rom

im momentSi, roca mas sastikad

scemdnen, enzel mkoiani iqve iyo

da wixlebiT scemda mas Tavis

TanamzraxvelebTan erTad. enzel

mkoianTan iyvnen samvel iritiani,

policiis ufrosi arsen petrosiani,

romelic axla kandidatia,

kostia varTaniani _ enzelis

dacvis TanamSromeli. bolo momentSi,

roca enzel mkoianma iaraRi

amoiRo, rom Cemi Zma moekla,

policiis ufrosma arsen petrosianma

SeaCera, _ cema sakmarisia,

ar moklao. ar misca mokvlis

ufleba, magram rogorc mere gavige,

mas gadasces, rom „ocnebis”

wevrebi axalcixeSi iyvnen Camosulebi

da amitomac ver gabedes

Cemi Zmis mokvla. am momentSi

Camoacves Tavze tomara da somxeTis

sabaJos mimarTulebiT waiyvanes,

rom sastikad nacemi aravis

enaxa. yvela foto ara mxolod

prokuraturaSi mivitaneT, aramed

e. w. fleSkazea Cawerili. goga

Jvaniasac miveci, magram rogorc

miTxra, is „fleSka” daikarga.

_ rodis dabrunda Tqveni Zma

saqarTveloSi?

_ mas Semdeg, rac „ocnebam” ar-

Cevnebi moigo, Cemi Zma saqarTveloSi

dabrunda, axalcixeSi Camovida

da yvelaferi momiyva, _

rac gaviare da vnaxe, aqamde megona,

mxolod kinoebSi Tu xdeboda,

magram, rogorc Cans, Tavad

cxovrebaa kinoo. vkiTxe, _ levan,

ra moxda aseTi-meTqi? mipasuxa, _

xSirad Tu xedav erTsa da imave

saxeebs, romlebic gzaze gxvdebian?

rogorc mivxvdi, mas CveniT

emuqrebodnen. amis Semdeg mkacrad

gamafrTxila, _ diana, yovel

15 wuTSi damireke, rom miTxra,

kargad xaro. misi cemidan erTi

Tve iyo gasuli, magram saxesa da

xelebze iarebi isev etyoboda,

Caqcevebi hqonda Tirkmlis are-

Si. Cemi Zmis dabrunebis Semdeg

enzel mkoiani da misi banda Zalian

SeSinebuli iyo. Cemma Zmam maT

gamoucxada, rac dammarTeT, arasodes

gapatiebTo. erTi maTgani

saxlidan gvian RamiT gamoiyvana,

_ 30-ma kacma rom mcemeT, icodeT,

aravis arafers gapatiebTo!

amis mere Cems Zmas avtoavaria

SeemTxva, _ Tbilisidan ninowmindaSi

brundeboda. mas mudmivad

uTvalTvalebdnen, avtomanqana

daajaxes, saswaulebrivad gadaurCa

sikvdils, avariis mere ki

miTxra, rom is mowamles da kidec

ganmimarta, rom es enzel mkoianma

moawyo. Cemi Zmis enzels Zalian

eSinoda, radgan icoda, rom is piradad

icnobda biZina ivaniSvils,

ramdenjerme Sexvda mas da SeeZlo.

simarTle eTqva misTvis, rac

CvenTan xdeboda, amitomac enzelma

is Tavidan moiSora. Cveni

am saubris mere Cemi Zma or dRe-

Si mokvda. eqspertizam pirvelad

daskvnaSi Cawera, rom Cemi Zma iyo

mowamluli. sanam vglovobdiT,

meore eqspertiza Caatares da

gardacvalebis mizezad Trombi

daasaxeles. „aramiancSi” analizebis

pasuxebi moviTxove, magram

aravin araferia gvaCvena. iurists

dauZaxes, romelmac miTxra, rom

aranairi problema analizebSi ar

iyo, magram, aba, rogor, roca Cemi

Zma 90 kg.-s iwonida da oc dReSi

40 kg. darCa? mas mere vcxovrobT

SiSSi, magram gadawyvetili maqvs,

rom bolomde vibrZolo. Cemi Zmis

mkvlelebis dasasjelad minda,

biZina ivaniSvils mivawvdino xma

da Sevaxseno misi erTguli TanamebrZolis,

levan vardanianis

Sesaxeb, romelic mxolod imitom

moiSora Tavidan enzel mkoianma,

rom „qarTuli ocnebis” gamarjvebisTvis

ibrZoda. Cemi Zmis mkvlelobis

saqme am dromde gamouZiebelia

da mkvlelebi Tavisuflad

dadian.

4 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

maka mosiaSvili

599 97 25 55

sami mowvevis milioner depu-

tats, romelic mmarTveli partiis msxvili Semomwirvelia,

erTi SexedviT, kaxeTTan araferi akavSirebs, radgan ukanaskne-

li sami mowvevis parlamentSi 2-jer „erTiani nacionaluri

moZraobis” saxe iyo, xolo 2016 wlidan, arc meti arc nakle-

bi, „gaqocda”. raWa-leCxumi-svaneTis, jer kidev, moqmed da aw

ukve kandidat maJoritar goCa enuqiZeze giambobT.

sazogadoebisTvis saintereso

arasdros yofila, ijda TavisTvis

daTvis bunagSi da arc Canda da

arc xmaurobda. rogorc sxva danarCeni

umravlesoba, arc mas

gaugiJebia Tavi sakanonmdebloblo

organoSi didi aqtiurobiT.

Tumca is ukve 12 welia, parlamentaria.

ar gaikvirvoT _ marTla

parlamentaria. arc erTxel ukadrebia

partiuli siiT Sesvla, is

samivejer xalxis individualuri

rCeuli aRmoCnda. rogorc zemoT

vTqviT, arc meti arc naklebi,

sul raRac, 2 partia aqvs gamocvlili.

orjer „nacionali” iyo,

erTxel _ „ocnebidan” da axla angariSi

rom gaaTanabros, isev „ocnebaa”.

amoboben, misi Cauqrobeli

politikuri varskvlavis saidumlo

mis milionebs ukavSirdebao.

magram arc imdeni milioni aqvs,

ramdenic, wesiT, bolo periodSi

unda moegrovebina.

sanam „qronika+~ Tavis eqskluzivs

gamcnobT, manamde am Cveni

Raribi da daqceuli qveynis milioneri

deputatis qonebas gadagaxedebT:

goCa enuqiZis qonebis Rirebuleba,

daaxloebiT, 5 181 800

laria. is, rogorc wesi, saxelisuflebo

politikuri partiebis

erT-erTi msxvili Semomwirvelia

xolme. magaliTad:

2017 wlis pirvel seqtembers

man „qarTuli ocnebis” angariSze

Caricxa 50 000 lari, 2016 wlis 29

ivliss ki 55 000 lari. manve 2012

wlis saparlamento arCevnebisTvis

„nacionaluri moZraoba” 60 000

lariT daafinansa.

misi qonebrivi deklaraciiT

vigebT, rom hyavs meuRle _ dea

melaZe da da 2 Svili _ TinaTini

da giorgi.

goCa enuqiZe flobs 346,78 kv.m.

farTobis sacoxvrebel saxls ambrolaurSi,

romelic miwis nakveTTan

erTad 2018 wels SeiZina;

2398 kv.m. farTobis miwis nakveTs

aseve ambrolaurSi, romel-

Sic 2018 wels 125 000 lari gadaixada;

agaraks bakurianSi, romelic

2017 wels aaSena da 200 000 lari

daujda;

memkvidreobiT miRebuli aqvs

136 kv.m. farTobis sacxovrebeli

saxli TbilisSi;

flobs 169 kv.m. farTobis miwis

nakveTs TbilisSi, 643 kv.m. farTobis

sacxovrebel saxls TbilisSi,

diRomSi;


bakurianSi, romelSic gadaxdilia

30 000 aSS dolari;

65,8 kv.m. farTobis binas TbilisSi,

WavWavaZeze, romelic 2016

wels 160 000 laradaa SeZenili;

aseve binas TbilisSi, romlic

2002 wels 27 600 larad SeiZina;

deklaraciis mixedviT, mis

mflobelobaSia 1018 kv.m. farTobis

miwis nakveTi ambrolaurSi,

romelic 2007 wels nasyidobis

saxiT aqvs aRebuli;

binas wyneTSi, romelSic 2009

wels gadaxdilia 18 600 lari;

43 kv.m. farTobis avtofarexs

TbilisSi, romelic 2014 wels 35

084 laradaa SeZenili;

kidev erT, 22,6 kv.m. farTobis

avtofarexs, romlis Rirebuleba

17 542 lari iyo;

isev Tbilisi _ bina, romelSic

2016 wels gadaxdilia 494574,01 lari.

is flobs msubuq avtomanqana

Porshe Cayenne GTS-s, romelSic 2016

wels 120 000 laria gadaxdili;

goCa enuqiZes wlebis ganmavlobaSi

SeZenili aqvs fasiani qaRaldebi,

aris „liberTi bankis” fasiani

qaRaldebis mflobeli, sadac

1 201 278 laris fasian qaRalds

flobs;

fasiani qaRaldebi aqvs SeZenili

aseve Bank of Georgia Group PLC-

Si, romelTa raodenobaa 4500 da

romelSic gadaxdili aqvs 62697,64

girvanqa sterlingi;

enuqiZes fasiani qaRaldebi

SeZenili aqvs TBC Bank Group PLC-

Sic, maTi raodenobaa 3400, jamuri

fasi ki 48 453,86 girvanqa sterlingia;

5000-is raodenobis fasiani

qaRaldebi aqvs Georgia Healthcare

Group PLC-Si, romelTa jamuri

odenobaa 10 511,4 girvanqa sterlingi

da 3000 fasiani qaRaldi

Georgia Capital PLC-Si, jamuri odenoba

ki 30 811,46 girvanqa sterlingia.

goCa enuqiZem 2018 wlis 12 Tvis

ganmavlobaSi saqarTvelos parlamentis

wevrobisTvis anazRaurebis

saxiT aiRo 53 580 lari. uWirda

da xelfasze uars rogor ityoda?

qonebrivi deklaraciis Tanaxmad,

goCa enuqiZes „saqarTvelos

bankis” anabarze aqvs 27 500 evro,

xolo Semosavali miiRo 412,5

evro;

„Tibisi bankSi” hqonda 300 000

evros odenobis sesxi, xolo am

sesxis gasavalma saangariSo periodSi

Seadgina 106849,54 evro.

rac Seexeba sxva xarjebs, goCa

enuqiZes ojaxis dasvenebisa da samogzauro

xarji hqonda 25 000

lari, rac parlamentaris mTeli

erTi wlis xelfasis naxevars Seadgens.

es goCa enuqiZis mcire finansur-ekonomikur

mimoxilvad CavTvaloT.

axla gadavideT ufro mni-

Svnelovanze _ sad aqvs mas wilebi

da mTavari kiTxva, _ visTan er-

Tad? 2016 wlamde mosuli gulmxurvale

„nacionali” rogor SeiZleboda

gamxdariyo moulodnelad

„qoci”?

maS, ase! _ goCa da kompaniebi

Sps „galaqsi investis” 50%-iani

wilis mflobeli;

is aris akademikos egnate fifias

saxelobis Tbilisis samedicino

institutis 20%-iani wilis

mflobeli;

is aris Sps „iberkompanis” 100%-

iani wilis mepatrone;

Sps „alians motors-Tbilisis”

12,5%-ian wilis mepatrone;

Sps „kasleTi 1-is” 45%-ian

wilis mflobeli;

Sps „arqi Taueris” 25%-iani

wilis mflobeli.

goCa enuqiZis ojaxis wevrTa

qoneba arcTu urigoa. parlamentaris

meuRle dea melaZe flobs


saguramoSi, romelic 2016 wels

saCuqris saxiT miiRo; kidev erT

miwis nakveTs saguramoSi, romel-

Sic 2000 wels 6000 laria gadaxdili;

1300 kv.m. farTobis miwis

nakveTs saguramoSi, romelic 2006

wels 23 563 laradaa SeZenili. dea

melaZis sakuTrebaSia 750 kv.m. far-

Tobis agaraki saguramoSi, romelic

2000 wels misma meuRlem aaSena

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


ramdeni nabiji

aSorebs uCa

mamacaSvils

milioner goCa

enuqiZis qonebamde?!

da 500 000 dolari daujda. melaZe

flobs 250 kv.m. farTobis miwis nakveTs

bakurianSi, romelic 2015

wels 25 000 laradaa SeZenili. enuqiZis

meuRlis sakuTrebaSia msubuqi

avtomanqana Toyota LandCriuser-i,

romelic 2016 wels 55 000 laradaa

SeZenili. deklaraciis mixedviT

dea melaZe aris Sps „gamas” 25%-

iani wilis mflobeli. enuqiZis qaliSvili,

TinaTin enuqiZe, aris Sps

„evro testis” 25%-iani wilis

mflobeli, aseve Sps „jgufi bafis”

erT-erTi partniori, Sps „iberkompanisa”

da Sps „ibervainis” direqtori,

Sps „riversaid diRmis” direqtori,

Sps „sqai baTumis” direqtori

da Sps „viem maSinis” direqtori.

erTi SexedviT, patara oligarqis

qoneba iseTivea, rogorc sxva

danarCeni regionis oligarqebis.

magram aq aris erTi saintereso

„magram”, _ misi qaliSvili, sul

raRac, 2017 wlidan Cndeba Sps

„jgufi bafis” partniorad. arada,

es Sps im partniorebs aerTianebs,

romlebic goCa enuqiZis sxva kompaniebSic

aqtiurad figurireben.

magaliTad, zaza vaSakiZe, kaxa qurasbediani,

nazi liparteliani, nikoloz

pataraZe, goCa xabuliani

da sxvani. yvela zemoT CamoTvlili

erTsa da imave dRes uceb er-

Tad moiwadinebdnen xolme da erTsa

da imave saaTze SehqondaT Sesawiri

xan „nacmoZraobasTan” da xan

_ „ocnebasTan”. Sesabamisad, daskvna

martivia: Sps „jgufi bafi” ara

viRacebis, aramed goCa enuqiZis e.

w. pexotaze gaformebuli kompaniaa,

romelic „jgufi bafis” bu-

Raltruli aRricxvianobis formirebisTvis

arsebobs. ras saqmianobs

„jgufi bafi”, amaze Semdeg nomerSi

visaubrebT, Tumca manamde

saintereso sxva ramea, _ uceb, ase

mowmendil caze, am kompanias kidev

erTi mewile gamouCnda _ 2017

wels, goCa enuqiZis qaliSvilisa

da siZis samegobros garda, kompaniis

TamaSSi Sedis uCa mamacaSvilis

colisZma _ koka kokolaSvili.

„qronika+~-is wyaros infor-

maciiT:

_ enuqiZes ndoba-arndoba ar

aris aq mniSvnelovani. mniSvnelovani

isaa, rom mas mere, rac 2016

wlidan is uCa mamacaSvilis kurTxeviT

xdeba „qarTuli ocnebis” saxe

parlamentSi, iq mamacaSvils ukve

sxva interesebi aqvs. anu enuqiZis

biznesSi Tavisi despani jer mcire

doziT _ 8%-iT unda gagzavnos.

mamacaSvili iseve endoba cota adamians,

rogorc Tavad misi deidaSvili

ivaniSvili. amitom misi er-

TaderTi dasayrdeni misi colisZmaa.

_ ra ganaTleba aqvs am colisZ-

mas?

_ ganaTleba ar sWirdeba mamacaSvils,

mas sWirdeba maxvili

yuri, kargi smena, cocxali Tvalebi

da gamWriaxi goneba. rogorc

vici, kokolaSvils amis yvela unari

aqvs. is warmoSobiT kaxeTidan

aris. kaxeTSi dabadebuli da

gazrdilia isic da misi dac. ase

rom, mamacaSvili kaxelebis siZea.

marTalia, ojaxi rusTavSi cxovrobs,

magram mTavaria colisZma,

romelic uCas marjvena xelia.

_ enuqiZes rom davubrundeT...

_ goCa enuqiZes sxva arCevani ar

hqonda. is ukve wlebia, uCas tyvea.

misi biznesi, praqtikulad, mamacaSvilis

skanirebis qveSaa. Tu

unda, rom SeinarCunos raRac nawili,

mainc mas unda daemorCilos.

Tu winaaRmdegi wava, mas gasagebad

auxsna 2015 wlis bolos mamacaSvilma,

rogor ganviTardeboda

milioneri deputatis bedi biznes-

Sic, qarTul p-litikaSic da cixeSic...

amitom rolebi Seicvala da

ase gaxda goCa enuqiZe „nacionalebidan”

„ocnebis” mxardamWeri. es

ician „nacionalebmac”

_ ise, enuqiZe arasdros yofi-

la oratori da mWevrmetyveli

parlamentSi...

_ enuqiZe parlamentSi arasdros

SeuyvaniaT salaparakod... is

yovelTvis msxvili safule iyo.

wina xelisufleba xels uwyobda

safulis gazrdaSi da mogebasac

iRebda iqidan. magram axla safulis

CamorTmevisa da gayofis

gadawyvetileba miaRebina uCam.

asea, _ mamacaSvili xan iq aris,

sadac mas ar elian. sainteresoa,

ramdeni nabiji aSorebs mamacaSvils

enuqiZis qonebis srul dapatronebamde?!

kompania „jgufi bafis” daaxloebiT

20-wliani saintereso istoriis

Sesaxeb momdevno nomreb-

Si mogiyvebiT...

`qronika+~ komentarisTvis goCa

enuqiZes daukavSirda: madloba

komentaris saSualebisTvis, aqve

aRvniSnav, rom aranairi Sexeba `bafi

jgufTan~ ar maqvs da ar mqonia”,

- ganucxada `qronika+”-s goCa

enuqiZem.

5


ìvaniSvili xvdeba _ misi

„Cemi azriT, ricxvebi, savarau-

nene injgia

dod, ase dajdeba: „qarTul oc-

591 71 39 98

nebas”, daaxloebiT, 41% proporciul

nawilSi, maJoritaruli olqebidan

25-s moigebs da es sruliad eyofa umravlesobis dasako-

mpleqteblad. wesiT, dRevandeli gadasaxedidan ase iqneba, Tu

manamde rame ar Seicvala”, _ amis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-sTan eqspertma

Tornike SaraSeniZem ganacxada. misive TqmiT, „qarTuli ocnebis”

es kabineti gacilebiT sjobs yvela sxva kabinets da premieri

gaxaria Zalian Tavdajerebuli adamianis STabeWdilebas tovebs.

ra SemTxvevaSi SeiZleba ver SeinarCunos xelisufleba „qarTul-

ma ocnebam”? ra roli aqvs saakaSvils 2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebis konteqstSi? ramdenad logikurad moqmedebs ivaniS-

vili, romelic, ubralod, kulisebidan ar gamodis?

591 71 39 98 Tornike SaraSeniZe:

am da sxva mniSvnelovani Temebis

Sesaxeb „qronika+~ Torni-

ke SaraSeniZes esaubreba:

_ batono Tornike, rogor

SeafasebT winasaarCevno kampa-

nias? ramdenad sainteresod

mimdinareobs is procesebi,

rasac axla vuyurebT?

_ Sevafaseb, rogorc komikurs,

raSic, pirvel rigSi, imas

vgulisxmob, rom, ZiriTadad,

opozicia dakavebulia erTmane-

Tis lanZRviT da amis Semdeg,

maT, ratomRac, molodini aqvT,

rom ivaniSvils daamarcxeben.

roca opozicia erTmaneTs daereva

xolme, Tan aseTi mZime formebiT,

ar unda hqondeT imis

iluzia, rom mTavrobas daamarcxeben.

miT umtes komikuria, roca

winaswar inawileben skamebs.

_ mmarTveli gundi sakmaod

mSvidad aris, maT amjerad arc

agresiuli winasaarCevno kampa-

nia aqvT da arc aqtiurobiT

gamoirCevian. riT axsniT amas?

_ albaT, ifiqres, rom aRaraa

saWiro agresiuli, negatiuri

kampania. principSi, gaumarTlaT

kidec. maT gadawyvites, rom ar

CarTuliyvnen CxubSi, elaparakaT

politikur miRwevebze. Sei-

Zleba, bevri politikuri miRweva

ar gaaCniaT, magram Tavi daanebes

oponentebis lanZRvas. ise-

Ti isteriuli kampania aRar

aqvT, rogoric 2018 wels hqondaT.

magram ramdenad gaumarTlebdaT

maT es strategia, sakiTxavia,

rom ar momxdariyo is,

razedac ukve vilaparakeT. amasobaSi,

opozicia erTmaneTs daeria.

opoziciam gaakeTa is, rac

unda gaekeTebina „qarTul ocnebas”,

rom elanZRa opozicia. es

ar gaxda saWiro, radgan opozicia

erTmaneTs TviTon lanZRavs.

principSi, „qarTuli ocnebisTvis”

mSvenieri ganlageba gamovida.

TviTon laparakoben

kargs, ar erevian CxubSi, sxvebi

asruleben maT saqmes, sakuTari

xeliT.

_ mmarTveli gundisTvis ko-

ronasTan efeqtiani brZola

wamyvani Temaa da swored amas

eyrdnobian winasaarCevnod. sab-

oloo jamSi, iqneba Tu ara

kovid-19 bolomde efeqtiani

partniori xelisuflebisTvis

arCevnebis konteqstSi?

_ qarTuli andazaa: qaris motanils

qari waiRebso. swored es

iTqmis koronaze. koronam moutana

maT reitingi gazafxulze,

magram koronas afeTqebam reitingi

ukan waiRo, Sesabamisad, axla

„qarTuli ocneba” sabrZolvelad

gamosulia yvelanairi im

qulebis gareSe, romelic koronasTan

efeqtiani brZoliT daiwera

gazafxulze. „qarTuli ocnebis”

aqtivSi aRar aris korona,

mis aqtivSia mxolod „qarTuli

ocneba” Tavisi raRac reitingiT

da administraciuli resursiT.

maTi reitingi ufro dabalia,

vidre gazafxulze iyo, magram

„qarTuli ocnebis” mier dakarguli

xmebi avtomaturad ar aisaxeba

arc „nacionaluri moZraobis”

da arc „evropuli saqarTvelos”

xmebSi. visac es ori partia

ar uyvars, „qarTulma ocnebam”,

rac ar unda dakargos

xmebi, es partiebi am xmebs ver

miiRebs. Sesabamisad, „qarTuli

ocnebis” xmebi, romelic bolo

periodSi dakarga, patara partiebis

aqtivSi wava. magaliTad,

„strategia aRmaSenebelTan”, „patriotTa

aliansTan” da a. S.

_ ra gaZlevT imis Tqmis

safuZvels, rom es xmebi ar wava

„nacionalur moZrabaSi” an

„evropul saqarTveloSi”?

_ neitraluri amomrCeveli,

romelsac moewona mTavrobis

strategia kovid-19-Tan brZola-

Si da amitom aZlevda xmas „qar-

Tul ocnebas”, ar iyo „nacionaluri

moZraobis” amomrCeveli.

im etapze am amomrCevels ubralod

moewona, Tu rogor ebrZoda

koronaviruss „qarTuli ocneba”,

axla ki mmarTvelma gundma

maTi xmebi dakarga, Tumca es imas

ar niSnavs, rom es adamianebi „nacionalur

moZraobas” dauWeren

mxars.

_ Tqven axseneT dapirispireba

opoziciaSi, es dapirispire-

ba „nacionalur moZraobasa” da

„evropul saqarTvelos” Soris

Zalian mwvavea. ra daskvnebis

gamotana SeZeliT imis fonze,

rac axla xdeba opoziciaSi?

_ SigniT rac xdeba, amaze sruli

informacia ar gamaCnia, magram

faqti is aris, rom gareT

rac gamodis, azianebs maTsave

saqmesa da gegmebs. amas ki xvdeba

ivaniSvili. opoziciaSi gamudmebiT

erTmaneTis lanZRva, bunebrivia,

maTsave amomrCevlis demotivacias

uwyobs xels, bevri

gawbildeba da ar wava arCevnebze,

rac, bunebrivia, awyobs „qarTul

ocnebas”. CemTvis gaugebaria,

nuTu opoziciuri speqtri

am yvelafers ver xvdeba? seriozulad

mikvirs.

_ ubralod ver xvdebian, Tu

romelime maTgani gamiznulad

iwyebs konfliqts da SesaZloa,

maTsave interesSia?

_ ar TamaSoben, isini ver malaven

erTmaneTis mimarT agresias,

es hgavs ojaxur Cxubs,

ufro sworad, yofili col-qmris

Cxubs, sadac ver malaven

agresias da romelia marTali da

romeli _ mtyuani, Zalian rTuli

gasarCevia. orive maTgani

marTalia da orive _ mtyuani.

_ Tqven ra daskvnis gakeTeba

SegiZliaT am or partias Soris?

meti pasuxismgebloba romels

eniWeba?

_ simarTle giTxraT, aRar

mainteresebs, radgan sakmarisze

meti dro iyo, erTmaneTSi gaerkviaT

raRacebi da Camoyalibebuliyvnen.

orive erTmaneTs ra-

Racebs abralebs. me dRemde seriozul

politikosebad mimaCnia

orive partiis warmomadgenlebi.

òpoziciis mier

erTmaneTis

lanZRvis kampania

komikuria!~

Tu maT surT ivaniSvilis damarcxeba,

wesiT, seriozul politikosebs

amdeni xnis ganmavlobaSi

unda daelagebinaT raRacebi.

_ ra roli aqvs saakaSvils am

procesebSi, romelic bolo pe-

riodSi gansakuTrebiT mSvidia

da araradikaluri gancxadebe-

biT gamoirCeva? raze mianiSnebs

misi simSvide?

_ ar aris gamoricxuli, rom

raRac arsebobs misTvis ukraina-

Si. SesaZloa, premier-ministrad

daniSnon, aqedan gamomdinare,

Tavdajerebulia. bunebrivia, es

premier-ministroba mas oqtombris

arCevnebamde ver mouswrebs, Tu

daniSnaven, es iqneba arCevnebis

Semdeg. ramdenad SeinarCunebs is

premier-ministrobis posts ukrainisnair

arastabilur qveyanaSi

2024-mde, es sakiTxavia. 2024-mde

Tu SeinarCuna, misTvis es didi

Zala iqneba da aseve Zalian gaZlierdeba

„nacionaluri moZraoba”.

àr aris gamoricxuli, rom raRac arsebobs

misTvis ukrainaSi. SesaZloa, premier-ministrad

daniSnon, aqedan gamomdinare, Tavdajerebulia.

bunebrivia, es premier-ministroba mas

oqtombris arCevnebamde ver mouswrebs, Tu

daniSnaven, es iqneba arCevnebis Semdeg.

ramdenad SeinarCunebs is premier-ministrobis

posts ukrainisnair arastabilur qveyanaSi

2024-mde, es sakiTxavia. 2024-mde Tu SeinarCuna,

misTvis es didi Zala iqneba da aseve Zalian

gaZlierdeba `nacionaluri moZraoba~

manamde Tu „qarTulma ocnebam”

ver moagvara Zireuli sakiTxebi,

rogoric aris laris kursi, „qar-

Tul ocnebas” seriozulad Seeryeva

poziciebi, TavisTavad cxadia.

SesaZloa, amis gamoa mSvidi

saakaSvili.

_ saakaSvili Tavisi gancxadebebiT

xels xom ar uwyobs polarizebas?

is ambobs, rom xe-

lisuflebaSi umravlesobiT

unda movides „nacionaluri mo-

Zraoba”, aseve premierad misi ka-

ndidatura dasaxelda, rac SesaZloa,

polarizebis xelSemwyo-

bi faqtori iyos: biZina vs miSa?

_ igi am gancxadebebiT saku-

Tari amomrCevlis mobilizacias

axdens, magram, Cemi azriT, mis

amomrCevels didi mobilizacia

ar sWirdeba, radgan misi amomrCeveli

isedac sakmaod motivirebulia.

Tumca msgavsi gancxadebebiT

igi neitralur amomrCevels

afrTxobs, romlis mozidvis

Sansic arsebobs da romlis

mozidvis Sansic hqonda grigol

vaSaZesa da sxva axal liderebs.

rac Seexeba „nacionaluri moZraobis”

gancxadebas, rom saakaSvili

unda iyos premieri, es, principSi,

logikuricaa, radgan Tu

opozicia gaimarjvebs, wamyvani

xma eqneba „nacionalur moZraobas”,

es orjer ori oTxia. albaT,

imedi aqvT, rom es revoluciur

scenars gamoiwvevs, yvelaferi

Tavidan daiwyeba, zurabiSvili

daubrunebs moqalaqeobas

da gaxdeba premieri. ar

aris gamoricxuli, rom maT amis

imedi marTlac hqondeT, magram

im TamaSis wamowyebiT, rom miSa

premierad vixiloT da miSa bi-

Zinas winaaRmdeg, ra Tqma unda,

isini afrTxoben neitralur

amomrCevels. am situaciaSi ki

opoziciis SigniT, erTmaneTze

gadakidebiT, neitraluri amomrCeveli

kidev ufro metad fr-

Txeba. Sesabamisad, maTi gamarjvebis

Sansi qvemoT iwevs.

_ rogorc neitralur amomrCevels

afrTxoben, aseve „oc-

nebis” wisqvilzec asxamen wyals.

„ocnebas” es polarizeba raRac-

nairad awyobs. Tqven rogor

fiqrobT?

_ TavisTavad cxadia. neitr-

6 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


gamoCena xalxs gaaRizianebs~

`ramdenjerac opoziciur arxebze gadamerTveba, sul opozicia ekamaTeba

erTmaneTs. es am situaciaSi ver warmomidgenia, rogor unda daamarcxon

ivaniSvili, romelsac aqvs Tavisi miliardebic da administraciuli

resursic. 2012 wels miSas mxolod administraciuli resursi hqonda,

miliardebi ki - biZinas. aseve biZinas garSemo darazmuli iyo mTeli

opozicia, axla opozicia daqsaqsulia da administraciuli resursi da

miliardebic biZinas mxaresaa. ar vici, ras apirebs opozicia, risi imedi

aqvs? maTi baqibuqic mesmis xolme da, amasTan erTad, mwared mecineba~

aluri amomrCeveli polarizaciis

dros saxlSi rCeba da am

dros „qarTuli ocneba” arCevnebze

miiyvans administraciul resurss.

aseT arCevnebSi, roca

polarizaciaa, gadamwyveti roli

eniWeba administraciul resurss

da mmarTveli partia igebs.

faqtia, rom visac ivaniSvilis

damarcxebis Sansi aqvs, es isev

„nacionaluri moZraobaa”. opoziciur-koaliciuri

mTavrobis

SemTxvevaSi yvelaze meti xma

eqneba „nacionalur moZraobas”.

am partiis xmebi naxevari mainc

aris miSasi, amas veravin gaeqceva.

amitom „nacionaluri moZraoba”

miSas Tavs ver daaRwevs, miSas

dakargva avtomaturad niSnavs,

sul cota, xmebis 50%-is

dakargvas, magram saqme is aris,

rom Tu „nacionalur moZraobas”

surs neitraluri amomrCevlebis

xmebis mizidva, maT wina planze

unda wamowion axali liderebi.

am etapze axali liderebi naklebad

Canan.

_ ukve cnobilia „qarTuli

ocnebisa” da „nacionaluri

moZraobis” maJoritari kandi-

datebi. „qarTulma ocnebam”

„axal saxeebze” gaakeTa aqcenti.

sabolood, rogor SeafasebT am

ori mTavari politikuri

partiis kandidatebs?

_ Tu opozicia maJoritarul

olqebSi adgilobriv mdidar adamianebs

ar daayenebs, mgoni, ma-

Joritarebis nawilSi didi mniSvneloba

ar aqvs, vin iqneba kandidati,

radgan maJoritarul

olqebSi mmarTvel partias yovelTvis

didi upiratesoba aqvs.

opoziciis rigebSi ori msgavsi

adamiani vipove, eseni arian: Co-

Celi da oqriaSvili, romelTac

aqvT fuli da regionSi avtoriteti.

maT marTlac SeiZleba

hqondeT gamarjvebis Sansi, iqaurebi

arian, arCevnebis mogebis

gamocdileba da finansuri resursi

aqvT, rac Zalian mniSvnelovania.

aseve raRac Sansebi aqvT

nika melias gldanSi, grigol

vaSaZes quTaisSi, radgan isini

Zlieri politikuri figurebi

arian. am oTxi maJoritari kandidatis

garda, sxvebis Sansebs seriozulad

ver Sevafaseb. ra

Tqma unda, maJoritari sistema

yovelTvis didi foraa mmarTveli

partiisTvis.

_ bolo periodSi araerTi

winasaarCevno kvleva gamoqvey-

nda, maT Soris, Edison research-isa

da IRI-is kvlevebi, romelTa

mixedviT gadauwyveteli amom-

rCevlis ricxvi maRalia. rogorc

wesi, gadauwyveteli amomrCevlis

umravlesoba opozici-

uri ganwyobisaa. win kidev ara-

erTi kvleva gvelis. amjerad,

romeli asaxavs yvelaze metad

realur suraTs?

_ rogorc xdeba xolme, aseTi

kvlevebi unda aviRoT, saSualo

ariTmetikuli gamoviyvanoT da

WeSmariteba sadRac iq iqneba. ra

Tqma unda, sul sxvaa realuri

ganwyoba mosaxleobaSi da sul

sxvaa arCevnebis Sedegebi. arCevnebze

zogi rCeba saxlSi, mmarTveli

gundi iyenebs administraciul

resurss da, Sesabamisad,

misi mopovebuli xmebi ufro metia,

vidre mosaxleobaSi arsebuli

realuri ganwyoba. Cemi azriT,

ricxvebi, daaxloebiT, ase

dajdeba: „qarTul ocnebas” 41%

proporciul nawilSi; maJoritaruli

olqebidan, savaraudod,

25-s moigebs da es sruliad eyofa

umravlesobis dasakompleqteblad.

wesiT, dRevandeli gadasaxedidan

ase iqneba, Tu manamde

rame ar Seicvala. ismis optimisturi

ganwyoba, rom 2012 welsac

ase iyo da kvlevebiT maSin Zalian

cota procenti hqonda „qar-

Tul ocnebas” da sabolood ki

„qarTulma ocnebam” moigo. vinc

òpoziciur-koaliciuri mTavrobis

SemTxvevaSi yvelaze meti xma eqneba

`nacionalur moZraobas~. am partiis xmebi

naxevari mainc aris miSasi, amas veravin

gaeqceva. amitom `nacionaluri moZraoba~

miSas Tavs ver daaRwevs, miSas dakargva

avtomaturad niSnavs, sul cota, xmebis 50%-

is dakargvas, magram saqme is aris, rom Tu

`nacionalur moZraobas~ surs neitraluri

amomrCevlebis xmebis mizidva, maT wina

planze unda wamowion axali liderebi. am

etapze axali liderebi naklebad Canan~

amas ambobs, maT minda Sevaxseno,

rom 2012 wels, bolo kvlevebis

mixedviT, „nacionaluri moZraoba”

seriozulad uswrebda „qar-

Tul ocnebas”. swored amis Semdeg

ifeTqa „cocxebis skandalma”,

ramac radikalurad Semoatriala

yvelaferi. manamde, Tu Zalian

bevr adamians eSinoda „qar-

Tuli ocnebis misamarTiT mxardaWeris

dafiqsireba, bevric nihilisturad

da neitralurad iyo

ganwyobili, Tumca am skandalis

Semdeg sakmao raodenobiT gamovida

da Riad dauWira mxari „qarTul

ocnebas”. maT Soris neitralurma

amomrCevelmac xma

misca „nacionaluri moZraobis”

winaaRmdeg. Sesabamisad, analogis

gavleba arasworia 2012 wel-

Tan.

_ davazustoT, Tu cocxebis

Temis msgavsi masStaburi skandali

ar agorda, „qarTuli oc-

neba” xelisuflebaSi rCeba?

_ Tu msgavsi tipis skandali

ar iqneba, „qarTul ocnebas”

arCevnebis mogebis kargi Sansi

aqvs. maT ar eqnebaT sakonstitucio

umravlesoba, Tumca Cveulebrivi

umravlesobiT SeZleben

xelisuflebis SenarCunebas.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom erTia

mosaxleobis ganwyoba da meorea

arCevnebis Sedegebi. ratom ver

iyenebs opozicia saTavisod

mosaxleobaSi arsebul ganwy-

obas? Tqven xSirad giTqvamT

CvenTan interviuSi, rom oros-

nebis xelisufleba gvyavs. Tun-

dac amas ratom ver iyenebs

opoziciuri speqtri?

_ orosnebis xelisufleba

aRaraa, axla ukve 4-osnebis xelisuflebaa,

radgan ramdenime

ministri namdvilad kompetenturia.

TviTon premier-ministric

sakmaod kompetenturia, miT

umetes „qarTuli ocnebis” fonze

Zalian Tavdajerebuli adamianis

STabeWdilebas tovebs. Sesabamisad,

„qarTuli ocnebis” es

kabineti gacilebiT sjobs yvela

sxva winamorbeds. aSkarad kompetenturia

finansTa ministri, ekonomikis

ministri Zveli kadria

da veravin daabralebs qocobas,

radgan maSinac ekonomikis ministris

moadgile iyo. rac Seexeba

imas, Tu ratom ver moqmedebs

opozicia, maSin, roca 2012 wels

pirvelad da jerjerobiT ukanasknelad,

arCevnebis gziT Seicvala

xelisufleba, mTeli opozicia

gaerTianebuli iyo, erTmaneTTan

konfrontaciaSi ar Sedioda.

axla ki ramdenjerac opoziciur

arxebze gadamerTveba,

sul opozicia ekamaTeba erTmaneTs.

es am situaciaSi ver warmomidgenia,

rogor unda daamarcxon

ivaniSvili, romelsac aqvs

Tavisi miliardebic da adminis-

traciuli resursic. 2012 wels

miSas mxolod administraciuli

resursi hqonda, miliardebi ki _

biZinas. aseve biZinas garSemo

darazmuli iyo mTeli opozicia,

axla opozicia daqsaqsulia da

administraciuli resursi da

miliardebic biZinas mxaresaa. ar

vici, ras apirebs opozicia, risi

imedi aqvs? maTi baqibuqic mesmis

xolme da, amasTan erTad,

mwared mecineba.

_ opoziciis daqsaqsulobaSi

biZinas xels ver xedavT?

_ diax, vxedav, magram, simar-

Tle giTxraT, dakonkreteba ar

minda, imitom, rom ar msurs,

vinmes vawyenino.

_ nu dakonkretdebiT, mig-

vaniSneT.

_ Tavs Sevikaveb. yvelas vicnob,

yvela erTmaneTis megobaria

da vinmeze rom vTqva, opoziciaSi

daqsaqsulobis Setanaze

biZinas xeli urevia-meTqi, gaminawyendebian.

patara qveyanaa da

yvela erTmaneTs vicnobT. vinc

politikaSi erkveva, simarTle

yvelam icis.

_ am SemTxvevaSi kiTxvaze pa-

suxi mkiTxvelisTvis mWirdeba,

romlis nawils, SesaZloa, politikis

kuluarul ambebTan wv-

doma ar hqondes.

_ (icinis), mkiTxveli Caukvirdeba

raRac-raRacebs da martivad

mixvdeba.

_ „pirveli qva iman isrolos,

visac biZinas fuli ar auRia!” _

ramdenime dRis win socialur

qselSi es fraza daposteT. esec

am Temas exeboda?

_ es sxva konteqstia. magali-

Tad, me vxedav, rom gamodis gubaz

sanikiZe da 24 saaTi lanZRavs

biZina ivaniSvils. 2006 wels, ma-

Sin, roca me natos sainformacio

centris direqtori viyavi, aranairad

ar vyofilvar „nacionaluri

moZraobis” aqtivisti da

pirdapir eTerSi sanikiZem miSas

apologeti miwoda. axla gamodis

gubazi da Wkuas gvaswavlis, rom

miSa kargia da mxari unda davu-

WiroT, _ aseT raRacebze mecineba.

me meCxubeboda, miSas fani

xaro, arada, partiis wevric ar

vyofilvar, fanobaze zedmetia

saubari, axla ki miSas aqebs da

biZinas aginebs.

_ rac Seexeba biZina ivaniS-

vils, is bolo periodSi wina

planze ar gamodis, rogor

fiqrobT, ratom?

_ diax, is naklebad Cans, wina

planze ar gamodis, cdilobs,

wina planze warmatebuli saxeebi

gamouSvas, magaliTad, gaxaria.

2018 wlis saprezidento arCevnebis

pirveli turis Semdeg ivaniSvili

gamovida da xalxs sTxova,

rom kidev erTi Sansi momeciTo.

axla, albaT, xvdeba, rom

misi gamoCena eleqtorats gaaRizianebs.

principSi, Zalian Wkvianuradac

iqceva. is 2018 wels gamovida

da patieba iTxova, Tqva,

rom yvelafers gamoasworebda,

Tumca arc araferi gamousworebia.

amitomac sjobs, rom TavisTvis

wynarad iyos.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

7


`qarTuli ocneba~ saakaSvilSi

„qarTuli ocneba” winasaarCe-

nene injgia

vno periodSi misTvis uCveulo

591 71 39 98

simSvidiT gamoirCeva. 2018 wlis

saprezidento arCevnebTan Sedar-

ebiT, wels arc agresiul kampanias atarebs da arc „sisxlian 9

wels” gvaxsenebs mudmivad. ramdenad aqvs aseTi Tavdajerebulobis

mizezi da mSvidad yofnis fufuneba, es arCevnebis Sede-

gebiT gamoCndeba, manamde ki opoziciur speqtrSi politikuri

kinklaoba grZeldeba. gansakuTrebiT TvalSi sacemia „nacionaluri

moZraobisa” da „evropuli saqarTvelos” dausrulebe-

li dapirispireba. ra tipis konfliqtia yofil Tanagundelebs

Soris da ramdenad uaryofiTad aisaxeba igi neitralur amom-

rCevelze? ras upirispirebs opozicia ivaniSvilis finansur

da administraciul resurss? afrTxobs Tu ara neitralur

amomrCevels saakaSvilis aqtiuroba?

am da sxva mniSvnelovani Te-

mebis Sesaxeb „qronika+” „erTiani

nacionaluri moZraobis” politikuri

sabWos wevr kote iose-

lians esaubra:

_ kote,ras upirispirebT op-

ozicia ivaniSvilis miliardebsa

da administraciul resurss?

opoziciuri speqtri Tavdajerebuli

acxadebT, rom xelisufle-

ba Seicvleba, magram ras akeTebT

amisTvis, garda imisa, rom erT-

maneTTan kinklaobT?

_ erTmaneTTan kinklaoba absoluturad

sxva xarisxis faqtoria

da ar SeiZleba misi Sedareba

realur saarCevno procesTan imitom,

rom Cven axla saxelmwifo-

Si vcvliT rogorc sagareo veqtors,

aseve yvela im komponents,

romelic qveynis ganviTarebisTvis

aris saWiro. ivaniSvili

miliarderia, suss akontrolebs,

monebi hyavs parlamentSi, Tu

raRac gavlena aqvs, rac Semdgom-

Si mas qmnis erTpirovnul mmar-

Tvelad, es arafers niSnavs, radgan

meore mxares dgas mTeli eri,

romelic gadaRlili da dastresilia.

mTel ers yoveldRiuri

nerviulobisgan saxe aqvs dakarguli

gauTaveblad mSvidobis SenarCunebis

mcdelobebis gamo. miuxedavad

imisa, rom „qarTuli

ocnebis” amomrCevlebi Riad acxadeben,

rom „ocnebas” uWeren mxars,

rogorc ki Ramis 12 saaTi

dadgeba da maTi Tineijeri Svili

saxlSi ar aris, damijereT, isinic

seriozulad iwyeben nerviulobas

da es viTareba, rac qveyanaSia,

maTac ar moswonT. ar moswonT

is korufcia, romelmac

gaaRariba maTi biznesebi imitom,

rom konkurentebs ufro meti

kavSirebi hqondaT xelisuflebis

maRalCinosnebTan da sxvebi

Seaviwroves; maTac ar moswonT

erovnuli valutis gacvliTi

kursi. da miuxedavad imisa, rom

„qarTuli ocnebis” burjad rCeba

biZina ivaniSvili, TviTon ivaniSvili

aris yvelanairad gakotrebuli.

rogorc moqalaqes, rogorc

politikoss, mas aRaravin

scems pativs. rogorc Tavisi partiis

liders, mas ukve seriozulad

aravin aRiqvams. is dgas kompromatebze,

daSinebaze, Zalovani

struqturebis borotad gamoyenebis

praqtikaze. amitom „qarTuli

ocneba” axla SeiZleba fafxurobs

da winasaarCevno kampania-

Si maTi konsultantebis mier micemul

rekomendaciebs iTvaliswi-

nebs, rom raRac konkretuli teqsti

unda Tqvan, Sesabamisi saxeebiT

gamovidnen, viTom unda asxivebdnen

imas, rom isini marTla

Rirsni arian, rom mosaxleoba maT

kidev erTxel miscems ramis keTebis

mandats. Tumca yvela Sinaganad

vgrZnobT da haerSi trialebs

is realuri situacia, Tu ra iqneba

momavalSi. es aris warmavali,

momakvdavi, agoniaSi myofi reJimi,

romlis gadarCenac aRaravis

unda. saxelmwifo Tavis funqcias

veRar asrulebs. Cven vqmniT saxelmwifos

imisTvis, rom yvelas-

Tvis Tanabrad SevZloT konkretuli

sikeTeebis gadanawileba,

risi generirebac xorcieldeba

konkretul teritoriaze. es ZiriTadi

RerZi saqarTveloSi mor-

Rveulia. aqedan gamomdinare, partia,

romelic tenderebSi gamarjvebas

ebRauWeba, aseve imas, rom

mxolod erT ojaxs ar dauberos

civma niavma, dasrulebulia, radgan

mxolod amaze arian gadarTulebi

da saxelmwifoebrivi Tvalsawieri

SezRuduli aqvT. meore

mxares ki mTeli eri dgas, romelsac

am saxelmwifos warmatebac

nanaxi aqvs, Tundac „nacionaluri

moZraobis” mmarTvelobis dros,

istoriuli faqtebi gaugia da,

realurad, komunikacia aqvs danarCen

samyarosTan. „qarTuli ocnebis”

Tavgacxelebuli liderSipi

qaRaldis jariskacebad meCveneba,

romlebic cecxlis omSi Sevardebian

da daiwvebian, magram

isini amas ver aTviTcnobiereben.

Tu ivaniSvili gadawyvets da mis

saqmes dasWirdeba, nebismier moqmed

ministrs, Tavis ojaxis wevrebTan,

erTad „efesbes” gadascems

da mas veraferi gaaCerebs. amitom

am ministrebze paikebis wodeba

aRmatebulic ki SeiZleba iyos,

radgan paikebze ufro mcirea ma-

Ti realuri Rirebuleba da isinic

grZnoben amas. saxelmwifoSi

urTulesi situaciaa da amas moSes

dagegmili piarsvlebiT an konsultantebis

mier gacemuli rekomendaciebis

SesrulebiT verafers

uSvelian da Zalian mZime

Sedegi daudgebaT arCevnebze.

Tumca maT mouwevT amasTan Segueba.

maT didi mandati hqondaT

xalxisgan miRebuli, Tumca imedebi

gaucrues. „qarTul ocnebas”

yvelafris gakeTeba SeeZlo da,

realurad, araferi gaakeTa sasikeTo,

piriqiT, bevri boroteba

da kanondarRveva Caidina. bevri

cudi ram xdeba Cvens saxelmwifo-

kote ioseliani:

ès aris

warmavali,

momakvdavi,

agoniaSi myofi

reJimi, romlis

gadarCenac

aRaravis unda~

Si da biZina ivaniSvilis miliardebi

Tu vinmes ainteresebs, es iqneba

ruseTis „efesbe”, prokuratura

da Sinagan saqmeTa saministro.

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom Tqven

axla Zalian muq ferebSi aRwerT

realobas, mmarTveli gundi winasaarCevnod

Zalian mSvidad gamoiyureba,

maT Soris, arc agresiuli

kampania aqvT. am yvelaf-

ris paralelurad ki opoziciuri

partiebi erTmaneTTan kin-

klaoben. ra tipis konfliqtia es

da ar fiqrobT, rom igi uary-

ofiTad aisaxeba neitralur

amomrCevelze?

_ es partiebi „qarTuli ocnebisgan”

gansxvavebulebi arian im

TvalsazrisiT, rom erTi azris

vertikali ar arsebobs. „qarTul

ocnebaSi”, rasac biZina ityvis,

RaribaSvilis damlagebelic igives

imeorebs. am partiebSi ki yvelas

aqvs Tavisi azris gamoxatvis

SesaZlebloba. Sesabamisad, romelime

partiis wevri sakuTar Tavs

vinmes gamolanZRvis uflebas Tu

miscems, es misi piradi problema

da Tavisi Tvisebebis wina planze

gamowevaa. rac Seexeba, „nacionalur

moZraobas”, „girCsa” da

„evropul saqarTvelos”, is incidenti,

rac moxda „girCTan” dakavSirebiT,

es ar yofila eqscesi

partiebs Soris, es moxda or adamians

Soris, romlebic TavianT

partiebs warmoadgendnen. am or

adamians Soris problema mogvardeba.

ar mgonia, rom saarCevno

omia „nacionalur moZraobasa” da

„girCs” Soris, rasac ver vityvi

„evropul saqarTveloze”, romelic

absoluturad sxva masStabis

sakuTar piarkampanias axorcielebs

winasaarCevnod. maT qmedebeb-

Sic siaxle araferia. rodesac

`Tu ivaniSvili gadawyvets da mis saqmes

dasWirdeba, nebismier moqmed ministrs, Tavis

ojaxis wevrebTan, erTad èfesbes~ gadascems da

mas veraferi gaaCerebs~

mouwiaT „nacionaluri moZraobidan”

wasvla da calke partiad

daregistrireba, imis mere maTi

qmedebebi ar Secvlila: lanZRaven

Cvens liderebs, gveZaxian beladomanebs,

uamrav sazizRrobas

kadruloben. aranairi eTika ar

arsebobs imisa, Tu rogor unda

gamoxatos sakuTari pozicia adamianma

debatebsa Tu feisbuqpostebSi.

ukve me-4 welia, es procesi

grZeldeba. samwuxarod,

„evropul saqarTveloSi” ar esmiT,

rom es ar aris gza, riTac

isini SeZleben sakuTari identobis,

konturebis gamokveTas, radgan

xalxma jer kidev ver gaigo,

ra partiaa „evropuli saqarTvelo”.

me vurCevdi maT, rom Secvalon

Tavisi identobis gamoWedvis

meqanizmebi da sxvanairad scadon.

erTaderTi, rac SeiZleba

ifiqros adamianma, aris is, rom

nebismieri aqtivoba, romelic mimarTulia

„nacionaluri moZraobis”

winaaRmdeg, orkestrirebulia

araswori motivaciebidan gamomdinare.

Tu Sen ebrZvi biZina

ivaniSvils, maSin gWirdeba partniorebi

masTan sabrZolvelad.

partniorebs lanZRavde, aseve

wyvetde yvela kavSirs maTTan,

ramac SeiZleba saerTo interesebamde

migiyvanos da Tan biZina

ivaniSvils ebrZode da ver ambobde,

ra ginda sinamdvileSi am politikur

sivrceSi, _ es xom warmoudgenelia.

Cven Zalian gvinda

parlamentSi moxvedra da amisTvis

yvelafers vikadrebT, _ ase-

Ti STabeWdileba SeiZleba gamoitano

„evropuli saqarTvelos”

saqcielidan. yvelaze amas ver

ityvi, magram maTac rom hyavT ZiriTadi

qaRaldis jariskacebi,

isini amaze wamsvlelebi arian,

uaress mocemulobaSic iseTive

mxneobiT CaerTvebian, Tumca imedi

maqvs, rom metad aRar gauaresdeba

situacia. „nacionaluri

moZraoba” mag xarisxis komunikaciaSi

ar vapirebT aravisTan Sesvlas.

konkretuli mizani gvaqvs:

8 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


realur konkurents xedavs~

damTavrdes rusuli gavlenebi

saqarTvelosa da centralur xelisuflebaSi!

Semdeg ki qveyana

daubrundes ganviTarebis normalur,

civilizebul, demokratiul,

samarTlebriv sivrceSi moqceul

procesebs. amisTvis specialuri

gegmac gvaqvs da „nacionalur

moZraobas” namdvilad aqvs

imis inteleqtualuri resursi,

rom saxelmwifo marTos, gamoiyvanos

im krizisidan, sadac SevediT

am istoriuli Secdomis gamo,

romelsac „qarTuli ocneba”

hqvia, Tavisi yvelafriT, maT

Soris, sateliti da raRacnairi

partiebiT. sinamdvileSi, yvelam

yvelaferi icis. Cemma megobarma

miTxra, ocnebad meqca, rom am

qveyanaSi gadauwyveteli amomrCeveli

viyoo. SeiZleba, viRac

ar afiqsirebs Riad sakuTar azrs,

ambobs, rom arc erTi partia ar

moswons, magram sinamdvileSi yvelam

viciT, ras vizamT arCevnebis

dRes. amaze cudi, rac axla qveyanaSi

xdeba, ra SeiZleba iyos?!

Cveni cxovrebis saukeTeso wlebi

fuWad gavida. SeiZleba, istoriisTvis

30 weli araferia, magram

CvenTvis mTeli cxovrebaa, Cveni

biografiis saukeTeso periodi,

roca vfiqrobT, rom yvelaferi

SegviZlia da viciT. am dros energia

ikargeba da sinergia ifanteba.

SesaZleblobebs xelidan

vuSvebT, es ki awyobs imas, visac

unda, rom saqarTvelo iyos CamorCenili

saxelmwifo. Cven dRes

varT funqciebisgan daclili

qveyana. Tavs movityuebT, Tu vityviT,

rom regionSi ama Tu im

sakiTxSi, kvlevebis mixedviT, vliderobT.

piradad ver vgrZnob,

rom Cemi saxelmwifo raRac mocemulobaSi,

indeqsebiT aris lideri.

biZina ivaniSvilis 7 miliardis

„efeqti” vnaxeT, _ rac mogvca,

imaze mets veRar mogvcems, amitom

am 7-ma miliardma fasi

dakarga. yoveldRiurad Zalian

bevr adamianTan maqvs urTierToba

da erTsulovnebaa imaze, rom

amis ase datoveba, rac axla qveyanaSi

xdeba, ar SeiZleba. amas amboben

„qarTuli ocnebis” mxardamWerebic.

_ Tqven ki aRniSneT, rom

„qarTuli ocnebis” mxardamWerebic

amboben, ase gagrZeleba Seu-

Zlebeliao, magram yvela kvleva-

Si calsaxad liderobs mmarTveli

gundi. konkretulad mipasuxeT,

ra gaZlevT imis Tqmis safuZvels,

rom xelisufleba icvle-

ba, maSin roca erT mxares dgas

ivaniSvili Tavisi miliardebiTa

da administraciuli resursiT,

meore mxares ki daqsaqsuli opo-

zicia, romelic winasaarCevnod

mudmivad erTmaneTTan kamaTobs

da romelic axals verafers

sTavazobs amomrCevels?

_ ver dageTanxmebiT, nene, rom

winasaarCevno periodSi opoziciur

partiebs Soris mudmivad kamaTs

vusmenT. opoziciur partiebs

Soris aris kamaTic da konsensusic

konkretul sakiTxebze,

aseve aris TanamSromloba da

konkurencia.

_ rogor dasrulda opozici-

`ratom unda misces erTma adamianma mTeli cxovreba erT partias xma?! es

Cvens qveyanaSia ase damkvidrebuli, rom mTeli cxovreba erT partias

aZleven xmas, miuxedavad imisa, Tu ra aris realoba. es nel-nela icvleba

da Zalian kargia, viRac SeiZleba aqamde erT partias aZlevda xmas, axla

SeiZleba am mocemulobaSi sxva partia moewonos da mas dauWiros mxari.

jansaRi procesia, roca partiebi cdiloben, erTmaneTis amomrCevelze

moaxdinon sakuTari xmebis kapitalizacia. ukeTesi iqneba, Tuki am process

araeTikurobis komponenti Camoscildeba da amas vimedovneb~

uri erTobis mcdeloba, Tundac

maJoritarebis nawilSi, es xom

vnaxeT.

_ opoziciuri erToba aris

imaze, rom „qarTuli ocneba”

unda wavides xelisuflebidan da

opoziciaSi gadavides. es aris

xelSeuxebeli SeTanxmeba. amis

irgvliv zogi partia konkretul

saarCevno olqSi TanamSromlobs,

zogic konkurenciaSia erTmaneT-

Tan; zogic, SesaZloa, erTmaneTs

lanZRavs kidevac, magram es xom

epizoduri sakiTxebia da ar aris

sayovelTao procesi. Cven Tu am

process araeTikurobis Semadgenels

CamovacilebT, jansaRi

procesia, roca partiebi erTmaneTTan

kamaToben da cdiloben,

erTmaneTis amomrCevelze moaxdinon

kapitalzacia, es Cveulebrivi

demokratiuli procesia. ratom

unda misces erTma adamianma mTeli

cxovreba erT partias xma?! es

Cvens qveyanaSia ase damkvidrebuli,

rom mTeli cxovreba erT partias

aZleven xmas, miuxedavad imisa,

Tu ra aris realoba. es nelnela

icvleba da Zalian kargia,

viRac SeiZleba aqamde erT partias

aZlevda xmas, axla SeiZleba

am mocemulobaSi sxva partia moe-

`Cven Zalian gvinda parlamentSi moxvedra da

amisTvis yvelafers vikadrebT, - aseTi

STabeWdileba SeiZleba gamoitano èvropuli

saqarTvelos~ saqcielidan~

wonos da mas dauWiros mxari.

jansaRi procesia, roca partiebi

cdiloben, erTmaneTis amomrCevelze

moaxdinon sakuTari

xmebis kapitalizacia. ukeTesi

iqneba, Tuki am process araeTikurobis

komponenti Camoscildeba

da amas vimedovneb. danarCeni

Cveulebrivi procesia, „qarTuli

ocnebis” saqme gadawyvetilia, umravlesobaSi

veRar mova. am SemTxvevaSi

mniSvnelovania, mravalpartiul

SemadgenlobaSi vin ra mxardaWeriT

isargeblebs. sazogadoeba

TviTon miiRebs gadawyvetilebas,

vis dauWiros mxari arCevnebze,

magram calsaxad naTelia,

rom „qarTul ocnebas” araferi

SesaTavazebeli ar aqvs, Tundac

im gadauwyveteli amomrCevlisTvis,

romelmac Zalian kargad icis,

sinamdvileSi vis dauWers mxars.

didi suraTi yvelas kargad

aqvs danaxuli, miuxedavad imisa,

is kvlevebSi figurirebs Tu ara,

rogorc gadauwyveteli amomrCeveli.

rac Seexeba kvlevebs, gasagebia,

rom politikuri partiebis

reitingi am kvlevebSi calkea

gamotanili, magram kvlevebSi

danarCenili Semadgenelic arsebobs

da calsaxad yvela gamokiTxuli

ambobs, rom ar moswonT

laris kursi. gamokiTxulTa umravlesoba

fiqrobs, rom qveyana

araswori mimarTulebiT viTardeba,

SimSilia, umuSevrobaa, teritoriuli

mTlianobis problemaa

da a. S. sinamdvileSi am problemebis

erToblioba SemdgomSi rogor

korelaciaSi mova im realur

reitingTan, romelic „qarTul

ocnebas” aqvs, es arCevnebze gamo-

Cndeba. vxedavdiT, wina kvlevebi

ramdenad Seesabameboda saarCevno

Sedegebs. es arCevnebic ar iqneba

gamonaklisi. organizaciebi, romlebic

kvlevebs atareben, maT interesSia,

rom zedapirze amoswion

problemebi, politikur partiebs

aCvenon maTi reitingebi, Tu

ra nawilSi aqvT Cavardna da ra

ainteresebs xalxs. xalxs ki ainteresebs:

umuSevroba, jandacva,

ganaTleba, ekonomika, usafrTxoeba,

Sesabamisad, politikurma

partiebma TavianTi politikuri

kampania am sakiTxebze unda aagon.

_ ramdenime Tvis win mixeil

saakaSvilisgan movismineT, rom

qarTuli politikisTvis dro ar

hqonda, dRes ki is „nacionaluri

moZraobis” premier-ministrobis

kandidatad dasaxelda da pro-

cesebSi distanciurad aqtiurad

erTveba. misi faqtori uwyobs

Tu ara xels polarizebas, rac

„qarTul ocnebas” yvelaze metad

awyobs da aseve kampania „daavale

miSas” xom ar daafrTxobs nei-

tralur amomrCevels?

_ Tu vinmes afrTxobs miSa

saakaSvilis gaaqtiureba, es aris

„qarTuli ocneba”, neitraluri

amomrCeveli calsaxad Camoyalibebulia,

rom qveyanaSi arsebuli

viTarebis SenarCuneba aRar Sei-

Zleba. ara mxolod neitraluri

amomrCeveli, „qarTuli ocnebis”

amomrCevelic ase fiqrobs.

_ Tumca neitraluri amom-

rCevlis garkveuli nawili miSas

alternativad ar ganixilavs...

_ amas arc erT kvlevaSi aravin

ambobs, magram es mesiji „qarTuli

ocnebis” wiaRidan aris wamosuli,

rom TiTqos neitraluri

amomrCeveli miSas ar ganixilavs,

rogorc alternativas. ar vicnob

arc erT adamians, romelic neitraluria

im gagebiT, rom am

qveyanaSi surs cvlilebebi, aRar

moswons biZina ivaniSvili da

amavdroulad calsaxa pozicia

hqondes, rom yvelaferi unda gakeTdes

miSa saakaSvilis gareSe.

yvelas gaazrebuli aqvs, rom miSa

saakaSvili namdvilad aris

„qarTuli ocnebis” antipodi da

rasac „qarTuli ocneba” afuWebs,

imis ukeTesobisken Semobruneba

miSa saakaSvils SeuZlia _ mas aqvs

amis sruli ufleba, aseve didi

mxardaWera. Tqven rom TqviT,

Tavidan ar surda qarTul politikaSi

aqtiuroba da Semdeg gaaqtiurdao,

es bunebrivi momentia.

SeiZleba, Tavidan raRac ar gvindodes

da Semdeg SevicvaloT

azri. rogorc CerCili ambobda,

„vinc azrs ar icvlis, is verasdros

verafers cvlis”, amitom me

problemas ver vxedav. vici adamianebi,

romlebic ramdenime Tvis

win politikiT ar iyvnen dainteresebulebi,

magram axla aqtiurad

arian CarTulni, politikuri

partiac Seqmnes da sakmaod dinamikur

saarCevno kampaniaSi CaerTnen,

Tundac „lelo”. rac meti

aqtori da aqtiuri resursi iqneba

im procesebSi Casxmuli, romelic

am qveyanaSi biZina ivaniSvilis

Camocilebas Seuwyobs

xels, miT ukeTesi. biZina ivaniSvili

panacea ki ar aris, misi mmarTvelobaa

panacea. wavides, icxovros,

rogorc SevardnaZem icxovra,

rac unda is akeTos, iyos

isev „qarTuli ocnebis” Tavmjdomare,

magram ar SeiZleba, am

qveyanaSi maRal eSelonebSi moRvaweobdes

adamiani, romelsac

aranairi politikuri da iuridiuli

uflebamosileba ar gaaCnia

da is niSnavdes pirad eqims jandacvis

ministrad, pirad dacvas

Zalovani uwyebis xelmZRvanelad,

pirad klerks ki xan premier-ministrad

da xan Tavdacvis ministrad.

ar SeiZleba, ojaxuri biznesis

msgavsad gardaqmnas qveyana.

albaT, viRacas, Tavis droze,

egona, rom am meTodebiT marTva

saintereso iqneboda, magram yvelani

vxedavT, sadamdec mivediT.

yvela Camoyalibebulia, rom ase

gagrZeleba aRar SeiZleba, amitom

arc biZina ivaniSvilis pirad

faqtors, arc mis 7 miliards fasi

aRar aqvs, xalxma ukve miiRo

gadawyvetileba _ mas surs, Svilebma

usafrTxo garemoSi icxovron,

ganaTlebaze xelmisawvdomoba

hqondeT da ekonomikuri procesebi

ukeTesobisken Semotrialdes.

xalxs surs, rom siRaribesa

da SimSilSi ar amoxdes bolo

dReebi da amas veraferi SeewinaaRmdegeba.

amitom Zalian mniSvnelovania,

mTelma sazogadoebam

es yvelaferi biZina ivaniSvilamde

imgvarad mivitanoT, rom mas

xeli ar waucdes da wasvlis win

cudad ar moiqnios kudi, rame

sisulele ar Caidinos. yvelaferi

unda gakeTdes saerTaSoriso,

civilizebuli samyaros wesebis

mixedviT. amiT yvela kmayofili

iqneba, maT Soris, TviTonac.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

9


àm arCevnebs òcneba~

„guSin saRamos Cemi saarCevno

giorgi abaSiZe

plakatebi gaakres. Ramis 3-4 saa-

Tze is viRacebma Camoxies da

nagvis urnebTan miyar-moyares, RvTismSoblobis Rames xeva-

fxrewisTvis moicales. kanoniT akrZalulia vandalizmi da vin

arRvevs kanons? _ cxadia, is, visac kanonis dacva evaleba.

wina dRes aseTi viTareba iyo

soflis orRobeebSi: Cems sam

plakatze erTi duglaZis

plakati modioda da mosaxle-

obasTan Sexvedrisas aRvniSne

kidec _ 3:1 vigebT-meTqi.

didi yurebi aqvs „ocnebas”,

didi yurebi, magram patara Tavi

_ meore dRidanve, sadac Cemi

plakati naxes, 3-3 duglaZe

miusves gverdiT. da TavianTi 4-

aTastiraJiani kandidati rom

aRar eyoT, mere Cemi plakatebis

Camoxeva daiwyes.

ver dameweviT, ramdenic unda

xioT! arc tiraJi geyofaT, arc

_ novacia, arc _ energia da arc

_ Wkua!

„ocneba” ubedurad agebs am

arCevnebs! ubedurad!” _ dawera

ramdenime dRis winaT socialur

qselSi xaSuris, qarelisa da

goris soflebis „Zala erToba-

Sias” maJoritarobis kandidatma,

„moZraoba xalxisTvis” poli-

tikurma liderma nato CxeiZem.

ise, zogs gaukvirda, am

arCevnebze nato CxeiZe xuTianis,

ase vTqvaT, qveS rom gamodis.

ratom miiRo es gadawyvetileba

politikosma qalbatonma? _ am

da sxva Temebis Sesaxeb „qroni-

ka+~ nato CxeiZes esaubra:

_ qalbatono nato, arCevani

„Zala erTobaSiaze” ratom SeaC-

ereT?

_ is partia, anu „moZraoba saxelmwifo

xalxisTvis”, romlis

politikuri lideric wels gavxdi,

„Zala erTobaSias” damfuZnebelia.

sxvaTa Soris, am blokma

saprezidento arCevnebze amomrCevlebis

sakmaoze meti mxardaWera

moipova. mokled, Tu viTarebas

realurad SevxedavT, aSkaraa,

rom „nacionaluri moZraoba” da,

saerTod, „Zala erTobaSia”, Zlieri

opoziciuri gaerTianebaa. saqarTveloSi

dRes arsebuli oligarqiuli

reJimi yvela patiosani

adamianisTvis miuRebelia da

misi damarcxeba mxolod Zlier

opozicias SeuZlia. sxvaTa Soris,

opoziciurad ganwyobili amomrCeveli

bevri imitomaa, rom

ivaniSvilis reJimma saqarTvelo-

Si yovlad gausaZlisi pirobebi

Seqmna...

_ yvelaferi es gasagebia, ma-

gram xuTianis, ase vTqvaT, qveS

Tqvens gamoCenas garkveuli

kiTxvis niSnebi moyva. hoda, yve-

laferi es Tavidan rom agecilebinaT,

ar SegeZloT, arCevneb-

Si damoukideblad an romelime

sxva opoziciuri frTis saxeliT

migeRoT monawileoba? ise, op-

ozicia proporciul arCevnebs

iTxovda. hoda, ra aucileblo-

bas warmoadgenda, rom saarCevno

kampaniaSi maJoritarobis kandi-

datis statusiT CarTuliyaviT?

_ opozicia, romlis gaerTianebuli

gadawyvetilebebis miRebaSi

mec vmonawileobdi, diax,

proporciul arCevnebs iTxovda

da Zalian didi Zalisxmeva das-

Wirda, rom proporciulTan axlos

myofi saarCevno sistemisTvis

mieRwia. proporciul sistemasTan

SedarebiT axlos myofi ki

120.30-ze sistemaa.

_ diax, vici, magram sxva ram

gkiTxeT, anu ratom miiReT gada-

wyvetileba, rom maJoritarad

geyaraT kenWi?

_ axla mTavaria, rom ivaniSvilma

parlamentSi rac SeiZleba,

naklebi mandati miiRos.

_ amis miRweva proporciuli

sistemiTac SeiZleba...

_ gasagebia, magram „ocnebis”

wevrebi sakuTar Tavs amxneveben,

didi procentebi gvaqvso, magram

ase namdvilad ar aris da

rogorc aqamde, am xelisuflebasac

maJoritarebis imedi aqvs,

anu unda, rom ocdaaTive maJoritaruli

mandati misi iyos. amitom

opoziciam gadawyvita, maJoritarobis

kandidatebad is adamianebi

daesaxelebina, romlebic

yvelaze konkurentunarianebi

arian. aseT Sansze ki, cxadia, uars

ar da ver vityodi.

_ e. i., fiqrobT, me-16

saarCevno olqSi konkuren-

tunariani xarT?

_ konkurentunariani ki ara,

Zalian unariani kandidati var da

am olqSi Zalian bevri mxardam-

Weric myavs!

_ SeiZleba, magram is usiam-

ovneba, romelic, Tavis droze,

„nacionalebTan” gqondaT, daivi-

wyeT?

_ saerTod, adamianebi arafers

iviwyeben, magram maxsovroba araswori

gziT ar unda mimarTo.

_ anu?

_ aqamdec miTqvams da axlac

gavime-reb: roca politikaSi xar,

Seni azri da fiqri mxolod da

mxolod saxelmwifoebrivi, anu

sazogadoebrivi interesebisken

unda iyos mimarTuli. Sesabamisad,

yvelaferi, maT Soris, piradi

ganwyobebic unda gadado da imis

mixedviT unda imoqmedo, rac

qveynisa da mamulisTvis ukeTes

gzad migaCnia!

_ pasuxi misaRebia, magram,

ratomRac, mgonia, rom „qocebi”

ar mogasveneben. provokaciebs

elodebiT?

_ provokaciebi yovelTvis

xdeba da, miT umetes, maSin, roca

maJoritarobis kandidati xar da

ambob, arCevnebs movigebo. aseT

dros mxolod provokaciebi ki ar

iqneba, aramed, „botebi” da

„trolebic” gaaqtiurdebian.

_ mokled, dasaSvebia, rom

„ocnebam” „iberiis” 2004 wlis

saqmeze sasamarTlo procesebi

nato CxeiZe:

`soflebSi xalxs

daxmarebas

dahpirdnen da

zeTisa da brinjis

nacvlad ori cali

pirbade misces!!~

ganaaxlos da maSindeli xelisu-

flebis warmomadgenlebs, anu

Tqvens dRevandel politikur

partniorebs, ganaCeni gamoutanos.

amis gamo garkveul ux-

erxulobas ar igrZnobT?

_ jer erTi, „iberiis” saqmeze

pirveli procesi ukve damTavrda.

meorec, me uxerxuloba ratom

unda Semeqmnas?

_ imitom, rom isini, romlebic

maSin „iberiis” daxurvaSi figurirebdnen,

axla Tqveni poli-

tikuri Tanamoazreebi arian.

_ saerTod, nebismier partia-

Si uamravi adamiania. aqedan zogierTs

gadacdoma mosdis, zogierTi

danaSauls sCadis, zogier-

Ti ki arafers aSavebs. es politikuri

cxovrebaa. im pirovnebebs,

piradi Tu sxva interesis gamo,

Tanamdebobrivi gadacdoma mouvidaT,

razedac pasuxi sasamarTloTi

unda moekiTxoT! sxvaTa

Soris, roca „iberiis” saqmeze

pirveli instanciis sasamarTlom

gadawyvetileba gamoitana, maSinve

vTqvi, es politikuri gadawyvetilebaa-meTqi.

_ ase ratom ifiqreT?

_ 2018 wlis movlenebi rom ar

yofiliyo, sasamarTlo araTu ganaCens

gamoitanda, aramed arc

CainiSneboda.

_ anu 2018-Si am kuTxiT sasa-

marTlo cnobili „oTxi TiTis”

epizodis gamo gaaqtiurda?

_ diax, xelisuflebas imis

Cveneba undoda, rom mediis mimarT

TiTqos obieqturia. arada,

„omegas” Zveli saqme sasamarTlosTvis

arc gadauciaT.

òmega~, anu zaza oquaSvili, ivaniSvilTan

korufciaSi ar Sevida da òcnebis~

saqmianoba, romelic sazogadoebas, ratomRac,

uniaTod miaCnda, amxila. sinamdvileSi ki es

mTavroba uniaTo ki ara, gamomZalveli da

reketioria, romelic mxolod

momxveWelobiTaa dainteresebuli da adamiani,

romelsac miliarderi hqvia, sigaretis TiTo

yuTidan or-naxevar TeTrs dasdevs! ai, amis

mxileba da warmoCena òcnebisTvis~ cecxlis

danTebis tolfasi iyo!~

sarTod, sasamarTlos nebismieri

gadawyvetileba ivaniSvilis

survilebzea damokidebuli. mas

ki sworad ar miaCnia, rom „omega”

rameSi marTali gamodges. mokled,

igive „iberiis” saqmeze meore

instanciis sasamarTlom

rogori gadawyvetilebac unda

gamoitanos, es samarTlebrivi ki

ara, politikuri gadawyvetileba

iqneba. amitom, CemTvis sul erTia,

Cvensa Tu sxvis saqmeze sasamarTlo

ra gadawyvetilebas miiRebs.

am gadawyvetilebebs ivaniSvilis

mTavrobis garda, aravin aRiarebs

_ Cvens evropel da amerikel partniorebs

miaCniaT, rom saqarTveloSi

sasamarTloc politizebulia

da _ prokuraturac.

_ ise, sityvam moitana da

ivaniSvilma Tvali ratom daad-

ga da misTvis „omega” miuRebeli

ratom gaxda?

_ „omega”, anu zaza oquaSvili,

ivaniSvilTan korufciaSi ar Sevida

da „ocnebis” saqmianoba,

romelic sazogadoebas, ratom-

Rac, uniaTod miaCnda, amxila. sinamdvileSi

ki es mTavroba unia-

To ki ara, gamomZalveli da reketioria,

romelic mxolod momxveWelobiTaa

dainteresebuli

da adamiani, romelsac miliarderi

hqvia, sigaretis TiTo yuTidan

or-naxevar TeTrs dasdevs!

ai, amis mxileba da warmoCena „ocnebisTvis”

cecxlis danTebis

tolfasi iyo!

_ Tqveni azriT, „ocneba” am

mxilebas ar eloda?

_ albaT, ar eloda, radgan

fiqrobda, rom biznesi misi mor-

Cili iseve unda yofiliyo, rogorc

sxva yvelaferi daimorCila an

damorCilebis survili hqonda.

_ qalbatono nato, ra amis

pasuxia da, gulaxdilad miTx-

ariT _ „patriotTa aliansSi”

ufro komfortulad grZnobdiT

Tavs Tu „Zala erTobaSias” gaer-

TianebaSi ufro komfortulad

xarT?

_ partiaSi yofna da, saerTod,

aranairi saqmianoba komforts ar

ukavSirdeba. komfortulad Sei-

10

10 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


ubedurad agebs!~

Zleba, maSin igrZno Tavi, roca

TeatrSi an kinoSi midixar da isveneb.

_ SeiZleba, magram „patriotebisa”

da „Zala erTobaSias” sa-

gareo xedvebi erTmaneTisgan

radikalurad gansxvavdeba, anu

„aliansi”, minimum, saqarTvelos

neitralitets iTxovs, Tqveni

amJamindeli bloki ki dasav-

leTzea orientirebuli...

_ gasagebia, magram „patriot-

Ta aliansma” neitralitetis, ufro

sworad, miumxroblobis Temis

aqtiuri afiSireba 2019 wlidan

daiwyo, me ki am partiidan 2018

wels wamovedi. ase rom, „partiuli

aliansis” partiuli mimarTulebebi

Cemi, ase vTqvaT, saqme

aRar iyo.

_ anu TqvenTvis ufro axlos

dasavluri Rirebulebebia, ara?

_ dasavleTi CemTan ufro ki

ara, Zalian axlosaa. sxvaTa Soris,

2017 wels, roca sakonstitucio

cvlilebebis komisiis wevri

viyavi, preambulas, sadac weria,

saqarTvelo dasavleTis gziT

mavali qveyanaao, mxari davuWire.

mokled, dasavleTi CemTvis kiTxvis

niSnis qveS arasodes mdgara!

_ keTili, magram raki gulwrfelad

vsaubrobT, barem, miTx-

ariT: „patriot” deputatebTan

erTad moskovSi wasvlas Secdo-

mad miiCnevT Tu ara?

_ ar vici, vin rogor gamigebs,

magram gulwrfelad getyviT:

saWiro rom gaxdes da im blokis

gezma, romelsac axla miaCnia, rom

ruseTTan saubari ar SeiZleba,

sxva mimarTuleba miiRos, moskov-

Si kidev waval! sxvaTa Soris,

roca opoziciuri fraqcia moskovSi

arasaparlamento mivlinebiT

midis da dumis wevrebs esaubreba,

cxadia, ramis molodini ar

unda iyos, anu piradad me imis interesi

mqonda, is adamianebi

menaxa, romelTac miaCniaT, rom is

teritoriebi, romlebic CemTvis

mSobluria, maTia. diax, am adamianebTan

Sexvedra Zalian saintereso

iyo!

_ saerTod, cxovreba da, miT

umetes, politika moulod-

nelobebiTaa savse, anu imis Tqma

minda, rom maSin, roca moskovSi

midiodiT, albaT, verc warmoid-

gendiT, gamoxdeboda xani da,

rogorc maJoritarobis kandidati,

saokupacio zolTan mcxovreb

adamianebs pirispir SexvdebodiT.

am xalxisTvis saTqme-

li ra gaqvT, qalbatono nato?

_ saTqmeli is maqvs, rom ramdenime

dRis win xviCa mRebriSvili

okupantebis ukanono patmrobisgan

ganTavisuflda da Tundac

is 8-dRiani karantini, romelSic

saqarTveloSi iqneba, mis-

Tvis didi Svebaa! mokled, xviCasa

da mis ojaxs am tyveobidan gan-

Tavisuflebas vulocav da visurveb,

Cveni im ori TanamoqalaqisTvisac,

vinc aseve tyveobaSia, okupantTa

cixis kari male gaiRos.

diax, Cven yvelas gvsurs, rom rac

xdeba, aRar moxdes, magram mainc

xdeba da im soflebSi, sadac davdivar,

saokupacio xazi pirdapir

`xalxi RimiliT ambobs, es kovid-19 ki ara, kovid-41-iao. sxvaTa Soris,

soflebSi am koronasi didad arc sjeraT. miTxres, - dagvpirdnen, daxmareba

unda mogceTo da yvelani gaviqeciT, hoda, zeTisa brinjis nacvlad ori

cali pirbade mogvceso. xalxi icinoda, mindvris garda arsad davdivarT da

es pirbade sad unda gavikeToTo?~

adamianebis saxlebsa Tu baRebze

gadis. iq xalxi yoveldRiur SiS-

Si cxovrobs. mosaxleobas ugzoobasTan,

uwyloobasa Tu uwamlobasTan

erTad, daucvelobis

gancdac aqvs.

_ anu saokupacio xazTan mcxovrebi

xalxi miiCnevs, rom xe-

lisufleba mas ar icavs?

_ is adgilobrivi Tu saerTa-

Soriso patrulireba aRar mimdinareobs,

rac 2012 wlamde iyo

da rac qmnida gancdas, rom am

adamianebs saxelmwifo icavda.

„upatronod varT”, _ amboben iqaurebi

da swored am patrons

elian.

_ Tqveni azriT, saxelmwifom

es adamianebi ratom miatova?

_ saxelmwifom mxolod eseni

ki ara, yvelani miatova, im mcire

jgufis garda, romelTanac danaSaulebrivi

garigebebi aqvs.

_ konkretulad romel

jgufebs gulisxmobT, qalba-

tono nato?

_ im jgufebs, romlebic „ocnebasTan”

arian daaxloebulni...

`roca opoziciuri fraqcia moskovSi

arasaparlamento mivlinebiT midis da dumis

wevrebs esaubreba, cxadia, ramis molodini ar

unda iyos, anu piradad me imis interesi

mqonda, is adamianebi menaxa, romelTac

miaCniaT, rom is teritoriebi, romlebic

CemTvis mSobluria, maTia. diax, am

adamianebTan Sexvedra Zalian saintereso iyo!~?

_ Tundac am m-t-vebis gamo

sazogadoeba

xelisuflebis

SecvlaSi darwmunebulia?

_ diax, sazogadoebas aqvs ganwyoba,

rom xelisufleba unda Seicvalos.

rac mTavaria, cvlilebebi

axalgazrdebs undaT da maT

31 oqtombramde darCenili

drois gasvla Zalian eCqarebaT!

_ 31 oqtomberi, cxadia, mova,

magram Tu ise moxda, rom „ocnebam”

xelisuflebaSi mesame va-

diT darCena gadawyvita, anu arCevnebi

gaayalba, amis sawinaaRmde-

god opozicias ra gegma aqvs?

_ „ocneba” kargad dafiqrdeba,

arCevnebi unda gaayalbos Tu

ara.

_ ase ratom ggoniaT?

_ ver vityviT, rom kiTxva ar

ician, anu im mesijebs, romelsac

mTeli welia, Cveni dasavleli

partniorebisgan iReben, mSvenivrad

kiTxuloben, rom arCevnebze

Zaladoba, zemoqmedeba da gayalbeba

aRar unda moxdes. erTi sityviT,

Tu „ocnebis” xelisufleba

Zaladobas dagegmavs da gabedavs,

amaze aRaravin daxuWavs

Tvals!

_ viciT, rom bevri socialu-

rad daucvelia, zogi ki sajaro

seqtorSia dasaqmebuli. hoda,

„ocnebas” swored maTi imedi

aqvs, anu adamianebs socialuris

moxsnisa Tu samsaxuridan gan-

Tavisuflebis SiSiT Tavis

sasargeblod miaceminebs xmas.

_ diax, es momentic arsebobs,

anu xalxTan midian da eubnebian,

rom opozicias mxari ar dau-

Wiros, magram iciT, adamianebi

ras amboben?

_ ras?

_ socialurs am wuTas ver

mogvixsnian, mere ki „ocneba” aRar

iqnebao. mokled, xalxs aseTi

raRacebis aRar eSinia, Tumca

konfliqti ar unda.

_ anu?

_ sazogadoeba „ocnebas”, ubralod,

uRimis da „ocnebis” wargzavnilebi

am Rimils TavianT

mxardaWerad miiCneven, magram

saarCevno yuTTan misuli adamianebi

ise moiqcevian, rom es

mTavroba Seicvalos!

_ mTavroba ki Seicvleba, magram

xalxis cxovrebac Tu Se-

icvleba da gamoswordeba?

_ diax, xalxi cvlilebebs dainaxavs.

mTeli opozicia SeTanxmebulia,

rom adamianebs kanonierebis,

samarTlisa da sasamarTlosi

sjerodeT, anu yvelaze

mTavari sasamarTlo reforma da

aseve korufciis aRmofxvraa! Cveni

sazogadoeba ukan swored korufciam

dawia, anu korufciam

siRaribe, dausaqmebloba da inflacia

moitana _ rasac unda

daabralon, ai, koronaa da sxvaganac

ase xdebao, magram pirveli

mizezi, ris gamoc erovnuli valuta

ukan-ukan midis, garRveuli

biujetia. am biujets mTavroba

maxrasaviTaa Seseuli, TavSive

iwriteba da xalxamde aRaraferi

midis!

_ sityvam moitana da mosaxle-

obas koronis ufro eSinia Tu _

siRaribis?

_ xalxi RimiliT ambobs, es

kovid-19 ki ara, kovid-41-iao. sxvaTa

Soris, soflebSi am koronasi

didad arc sjeraT. miTxres, _

dagvpirdnen, daxmareba unda mogceTo

da yvelani gaviqeciT, hoda,

zeTisa brinjis nacvlad ori

cali pirbade mogvceso. xalxi

icinoda, mindvris garda arsad

davdivarT da es pirbade sad

unda gavikeToTo? inficirebul-

Ta mateba, ra Tqma unda, arasasiamovno

mosasmenia da garkveul da-

Zabulobasac qmnis, magram sofelSi

yvelaferi es aradamajerebelia.

saerTod, xalxs am mTavrobis

aRaraferi sjera da ambobs,

mTavrobis warmomadgenelma rom

gviTxras, ai, wvimso, lamis, amasac

aRar davijerebo.

_ qalbatono nato, mesmis, rom

maJoritaris funqcia gzis gay-

vana an wylis problemis mogvar-

eba ki ara, kanonSemoqmedebiTi

saqmianobaa, magram imisTvis mzad

xarT, rom xalxsa da aRamasrulebel

xelisuflebas Soris Sua-

mavlis funqcia SeasruloT?

_ sxvaTa Soris, maJoritars

gzis gayvanac SeuZlia.

_ rogor?

_ kontroli unda gavuwio,

rom Cems samaJoritaro olqSi

dagegmili yvela proeqti bolomde

mivides. ai, magaliTad, wyali

arsadaa. arada, TiTqmis yvela

sofelSi wylis saTavo nageboba

gakeTebulia, magram wyali imitom

araa, rom, vTqvaT, milebisTvis

Tanxa daakldaT.

_ anu isev korufciasTan

mivdivarT, ara?

_ ra Tqma unda.

erTi sityviT, roca maJoritari

deputati yvelafer amas

gaakontrolebs da korufcias ar

dauSvebs, mosaxleobac amoisunTqavs.

_ bolos, qalbatono nato,

Cveni saubari SevajamoT, anu 31

oqtombrisgan ras elodebiT?

_ 31 oqtombers mosaxleoba

saarCevno yuTebTan miva.

_ da Tu nihilizmia, xalxi

arCevnebze miva?

_ diax, miva, radgan nihilizmi

aRaraa, radgan TiToeulma adamianma

icis, rom is cvlileba, romelic

Zalian unda, mis xelTaa!

_ ise, ra amis pasuxia da, „Zala

erTobaSias” proporciul siaSic

iqnebiT?

_ sia ramdenime dReSi gamoqveyndeba

da yvelani vnaxavT...

_ Tqveni meuRle, zaza oquaSvili,

qarTul politikaSi dab-

runebas apirebs?

_ zaza oquaSvili investoria,

romelsac saqarTvelosTvis

Zalian bevri ram aqvs gakeTebuli.

axla igi londonSi cxovrobs

da saqmianobs...

_ da mainc, im skandaluri

„oTxi TiTis” kadrebs odesme

vnaxavT?

_ sazogadoeba yvelafers naxavs,

rac sanaxavia!

_ anu es kadrebi realurad

arsebobs?

_ isev ise gipasuxebT: sazogadoeba

yvelafers naxavs, rac sanaxavia!

_ keTili. bolo sityva miTx-

ariT da dagemSvidobebiT...

_ qveyanaSi cvlilebebia saWiro.

am cvlilebebis Semoqmedi ki

Tavad xalxia. sazogadoebas imis

rwmena unda hqondes, rom 31 oqtombers

es cvlilebebi marTla

moxdeba da TiToeulma Cvenganma,

romelic xelisuflebaSi movalT,

yvelaferi unda gavakeToT, raTa

adamianebs rwmena kidev ufro

gauZlierdeT!

11


`saakaSvils, rac bolo Sexvedrisas

giorgi abaSiZe

xangrZlivi pauzis Semdeg po-

litikaSi brundeba _ marina

molodini „patriotTa aliansis”

proporciuli siis oceulSia. saerTod, vinc qarTul politikas

kargad icnobs, moexseneba, rom am qalbatons didi poli-

tikuri begraundi aqvs da mis kuluarebSic kargad erkveva.

is ki arada, qalbatoni marina im ramdenime adamianTagan erT-

erTia, romelmac aw gansvenebul premiers ar uRalata da

dRemde zurab Jvanias megobrad miiCnevs Tavs.

ratom gadawyvita aqtiur

politikaSi dabruneba? ratom

SeaCera arCevani maincdamainc

„patriotTa aliansze”? moi-

wonebda Tu ara zurab Jvania

mis nabijs? _ am Temebis Sesaxeb

marina molodinma eqsklu-

ziuri interviu „qronika+~-s

misca da isic agvixsna, Tu ra-

tom ar iyris kenWs maJoritar

kandidatad:

_ marina, 12-wliani pauzis

Semdeg politikaSi brundebiT

_ „patriotTa aliansis” pro-

porciuli siis oceulSi, Tu

ar vcdebi, meTormete xarT.

politikaSi dabrunebis gadaw-

yvetileba ratom miiReT?

_ 12 wlis winaT, roca parlamentidan

wamovedi, TiTqmis

davifice, rom politikaSi aRar

davbrundebodi, miT umetes,

rom zurab Jvania cocxali aRar

iyo, magram politikaSi dabrunebis

gadawyvetileba im gundma

mimaRebina, romelTan erTadac

axla var.

_ anu „patriotebs” gulisx-

mobT?

_ diax, ufro konkretulad,

daviT Tarxan-mouravsa da irma

inaSvils. sxvaTa Soris, oTxi

wlis win, roca irma sagarejos

maJoritarad iyrida kenWs, seriozulad

arc mifiqria, rom

partiuli muSaoba gamegrZelebina.

ubralod, irmas ojaxi

Cemi Zalian axlobelia da vexmarebodi,

magram es adamianebi

da maTi programa axlos gavicani

da gadawyvetileba miviRe,

rom qveyanaSi gamefebuli usamarTlobisa

da sibinZureebis

winaaRmdeg maTTan erTad mebr-

Zola! dRes ase vfiqrob da mimaCnia,

rom Cemi gadawyvetileba

sworia! metic: sanam iseTi

saqarTvelo ar aSendeba, rogorzedac

qarTveli eri ocnebobs,

am adamianebis gverdiT viqnebi!

_ miTxariT, 2016-Si imaze

meti sibinZure da usamarTlo-

ba naxeT, rac, magaliTad, wina

xelisuflebis dros xdeboda?

_ maSindeli sibinZureebi da

usamarTloba ar damTavrda da

dResac grZeldeba. iciT, kohabitacia

ra iyo?

_ ra?

_ „nacionaluri moZraobis”

gacocxleba da misi politika-

Si dabruneba, Sesabamisad, es partia

danawevrda da dRes sxvadasxva

frontidan imisTvis ibrZvis,

rom xelisuflebis saTaveSi

mobrundes da isev is ubedureba

daatrialos, rasac 9

weli atrialebda!

_ „nacionalebis” 9-wlian

mmarTvelobaze bevri Tqmula

da dawerila, Tan imaTi 9 weli

amaTma, e. i., „ocnebis” 8 welma

„gadawona”. amitomac kiTxvas

sxvanairad dagisvamT: mgoni,

aravin kamaTobs, rom 2012-Si

ivaniSvilis gundi xelisuflebaSi

swored „patriotebis” li-

derTa damsaxurebiT movida,

Tumca dRes Tarxan-mourav-inaSvilis

tandemi „ocnebisTvisac”

iseve miuRebelia, rogorc,

vTqvaT, „nacionalebi-

sTvis”. marina, amas riT xsniT?

_ „patriotTa aliansi” „ocnebisTvis”

miuRebeli imitomaa,

rom „ocnebaSi” misi namdvili

momxreebi da is adamianebi, romlebic

9-wliani reJimisa da ma-

Sindeli usamarTlobis winaa-

Rmdeg ibrZodnen, TiTqmis aRar

arian, anu kohabitacia moxda.

gadavxedoT.

_ ras gadavxedoT?

_ Tanamdebobebze isev „nacionalebi”

arian, anu „ocnebam”

yofili „nacionalebi” Seisisxlxorca

da maTTan mdinaraZeebi

Tu kobaxiZeebi mSvenivrad

TanamSromloben! „patriotTa

aliansi” ki im ideebisTvis ibrZvis,

romlis realizebac mxolod

Cemi ki ara, mTeli qarTveli

xalxis ocnebaa!

_ ise, marina, ramdenime wlis

winaT „ocnebas” rom SemoeTavazebina,

mis partiul saqmianobaSi

CarTuliyaviT, dasTan-

xmdebodiT?

_ ara!

_ ratom?

_ weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos,

zurab Jvanias gardacvalebis,

ufro sworad, mkvlelobisa da

aseve sxva Cemi megobrebis _

batoni guram SaraZisa da quCa-

Si daxocili axalgazrdebis

Semdeg, gadawyvetileba miviRe,

politikidan wamovsuliyavi.

saerTod, maSin Zalian bevri

ubedureba trialebda _ adamianebs

qonebebs arTmevdnen.

yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT,

marto sulxan molaSvilis

wameba rad Rirs. mokled,

roca amas vuyurebdi, rogor

SemeZlo, rom politikaSi davr-

Ceniliyavi?

ise, 2010 wels „nacionalebis”

winaaRmdeg brZola vcade _

noRaidelis partiaSi viyavi da

rac SemeZlo, gavakeTe, magram

am Zalis damarcxeba maSin

aravis warmoedgina.

_ es gavige, magram sxva ram

gkiTxeT, anu „ocnebas” mis

gverdiT dadgoma rom SemoeT-

avazebina, dasTanxmdebodiT?

_ ara!

_ damisabuTeT, ratom?

marina molodini:

`Jvanias saqme

rom gaixsnas,

opoziciis bevri

lideri

damnaSavis skamze

aRmoCndeba!~

`zurab Jvanias gardacvalebis, ufro sworad,

mkvlelobisa da aseve sxva Cemi megobrebis -

batoni guram SaraZisa da quCaSi daxocili

axalgazrdebis Semdeg, gadawyvetileba miviRe,

politikidan wamovsuliyavi. saerTod, maSin

Zalian bevri ubedureba trialebda - adamianebs

qonebebs arTmevdnen. yvelafers Tavi rom

davaneboT, marto sulxan molaSvilis wameba rad

Rirs. mokled, roca amas vuyurebdi, rogor

SemeZlo, rom politikaSi davrCeniliyavi?~

_ Zalian maleve, rogorc ki

xelisuflebaSi movida, yvelam

davinaxeT, rom „ocnebam” Tama-

Si daiwyo.

_ „TamaSSi” ras gulisxmobT,

marina?

_ kohabitacias, rac CemTvis

miuRebeli iyo. zustad vicodi,

rom yvelaferi ase damTavrdeboda

da erTmaneTSi ise aiTqvifeboda,

rogorc axla vxedavT!

sxvisi ar vici, piradad

me ki mimmaCnia, rom dRes „ocnebaSi”

Zveli saxeebi aRar arian.

mxolod mdinaraZes, kobaxiZesa

da maT erT muWa megobrebs,

anu gacocxlebul „nacionalebs”

vxedavT!

_ marTalia, „ocnebis” fani

arasodes vyofilvar, magram

geTanxmebiT _ ZirZveli ocnebelebi

aRarsad Canan. ise, marina,

politikaSi didi gamoc-

dileba gaqvT da miTxariT,

dRes sazogadoebaSi aris gan-

wyoba, rom xelisufleba

aucileblad unda Seicvalos?

_ diax, xalxSi es ganwyoba

aris, magram muSaoba mainc

saWiroa.

_ anu?

_ „nacionaluri moZraobis”

daSliT Seqmnili partiebi xelovnuri

opoziciaa.

_ amas ratom ambobT?

_ es partiebi imisTvis ar

muSaoben, rom xelisufleba Seicvalos!

_ aba, risTvis muSaoben?

_ erTaderTi, vinc dRes xelisuflebaSi

mosasvlelad ibrZvis,

„patriotTa aliansia”.

amitomac „patriotebis” winaaRmdeg

yvela partia gaerTianebulad

ibrZvis.

_ gasagebia, „ocnebisa” da

igive „nacionaluri moZraobisTvis”

Tqveni partia miuRebeli

ratomacaa, magram e. w. Sua-

Sisturi partiebi, magaliTad,

kaxa kukava an daviT WiWinaZe

„patriotebis” gverdiT ratom

ar dganan?

_ Cveulebrivi konkurencia

midis _ gaZlierebuli politikuri

Zala aravis unda. arada,

naTelia, rom dRes saqar-

TveloSi yvelaze Zlieri opoziciuri

partia swored „patriotTa

aliansia”.

_ marina, am partiis wevri

xarT da cxadia, ase unda TqvaT,

magram damisabuTeT, „pa-

triotTa aliansi” yvelaze

Zlieri opoziciuri partia

ratomaa?

_ uamravi mxardamWeri gvyavs

_ quCaSi aseulobiT adamiani

araerTxel gamoviyvaneT, rac

verc erTma sxva opoziciurma

partiam verasodes moaxerxa!

opozicia imisTvis ki araa

mowodebuli, rom ideisTvis ibrZolos

da es qveyana gaWirvebidan

amoiyvanos, aramed „patriotTa

aliansisTvis” Cirqis

mocxebiTaa dakavebuli.

sxvaTa Soris, 3 oqtombers

Tavisuflebis moedanze Zalian

did aqcias vawyobT. romelime

opoziciurma partiam gabedos

12

12 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


vuTxari, yvelaferi ausrulda!~

da imdeni xalxi gamoiyvanos,

ramdensac Cven gamoviyvanT!

mokled, yvelaferi es Suria

da sanam saqarTveloSi Suri,

boRma, RvarZli da erTmaneTis

lanZRva-gineba ar damTavrdeba

da sanam qarTveli xalxi ar mixvdeba,

rom mTavaria ideisTvis

brZola, am qveyanas namdvilad

araferi eSveleba! dRes medroveebi

isev skamebisTvis ibrZvian

da ara _ imisTvis, rom

qveyanas rame eSvelos! simar-

Tle giTxraT, Zalian mikvirs,

„ocnebis” Zveli saxeebi xmas

ratom ar iReben da imaze ratom

ar wuxan, rom maTi adgilebi

„nacionaluri moZraobis”

warmomadgenlebma daikaves?

„ocnebis” Zveli saxeebi gasusulebi

da SeSinebulebi arian!

_ marina, imasac mizanmima-

rTul Sav piarad miiCnevT, rom

Tqvens partias prorusuloba-

Si sdeben brals Tu saamisod

„patriotTa aliansi” garkveul

sababs iZleva?

_ diax, es mizanmimarTuli

kampaniaa! yvelam Zalian kargad

dainaxa, rom qarTveli xalxi

„patriotTa alianss” aRiarebs.

Cveni gamokiTxvebiT, „patriot-

Ta aliansi” „ocnebasac” uswrebs

da Cven winaaRmdeg es kampaniac

swored amitom daiwyo.

gekiTxebiT, brali raSi unda

dagvdon? _ ver ityvian, korumpirebulebi

xarT da danaSauli

CagideniaTo. amitom es Tema

gamoZebnes, magram es sacodavebi

amasac ver axerxeben!

Cveni partia gamokiTxvas

atarebs da unda, rom saqarTvelos

miumxrobloba gamoacxados,

rac imas niSnavs, rom Cvens

qveyanaSi aravis, maT Soris, arc

_ ruseTis, arc _ aSS-is da arc

TurqeTis jari ar unda idges.

hoda, Tu ruseTis varT, am ideisTvis

vibrZolebdiT?

es Zlieri politikuri partiis

winaaRmdeg Cveulebrivi

antipiaria!

_ sxvaTa Soris, jer kidev

2012 wels „ocneba” pirobas

debda, rom yvela gaxmaurebul

saqmes, maT Soris, zurab Jvanias

gardacvalebasac, gamoZie-

bda, magram am kuTxiT axali

araferia. marina, Tqveni versiiT,

„ocnebam” Jvanias saqme ra-

`Tanamdebobebze isev `nacionalebi~ arian, anu

òcnebam~ yofili `nacionalebi~ Seisisxlxorca da

maTTan mdinaraZeebi Tu kobaxiZeebi mSvenivrad

TanamSromloben! `patriotTa aliansi~ ki im

ideebisTvis ibrZvis, romlis realizebac mxolod

Cemi ki ara, mTeli qarTveli xalxis ocnebaa!~

tom ar gamoiZia?

_ ar unda, rom es saqme gaixsnas!

_ ratom ar unda?

_ es saqme rom gaixsnas, Zalian

bevri, visac dRes opoziciuri

partiis liderad moaqvs

Tavi, damnaSavis skamze unda

dasxdes! Jvanias saqme Taroze

Segnebuladaa Semodebuli!

_ hoda, Tuki Jvanias saqmis

kvali dRevandeli opoziciis

liderebamde midis, „ocneba”

maT xels ratom afarebs?

_ giTxariT da kidev geubnebiT:

dRes „ocneba” „ocneba”

aRar aris! es „nacionaluri ocnebaa!”

_ CvenSi darCes da, amas bevri

ambobs... ise, marina, parla-

mentSi ris gakeTebas apirebT,

anu ra motivacia gqondaT,

roca „patriotebs” proporciul

siaSi Caweraze dasTanxm-

diT?

_ parlamentidan ise wamovedi,

rom is idea, romlisTvisac

Tavis droze iq Sevedi, bolom-

`dRes òcnebaSi~ Zveli saxeebi aRar arian.

mxolod mdinaraZes, kobaxiZesa da maT erT

muWa megobrebs, anu gacocxlebul

`nacionalebs~ vxedavT!~

de ver miviyvane.

_ e. w. mTis kanons gulisx-

mobT?

_ diax. yvelaze kargad iciT,

rom mTiani regionebis ga-

ZlierebisTvis brZola ramdenime

wlis winaT daviwye da 1999

wels „mTis kanoni” swored Cemi

ZalisxmeviT damuSavda, Tumca

„nacionalebis” dros es kanoni

SeCerda. „ocnebam” ki aamoqmeda,

magram kanoni ise gaafuWa, rom

mTas didi SeRavaTebi mainc ar

aqvs. amitomac pirveli, risTvisac

parlamentSi brZolas daviwyeb,

swored mTa iqneba, anu

yvelafers gavakeTeb, rom mTa

ise ganviTardes, rogorc warmomidgenia.

amas garda, TanagundelebTan

erTad „patriotTa aliansis”

programis realizebisTvis vibrZoleb.

Zalian saintereso

programa gvaqvs. sxvaTa Soris,

Tavis droze, frankofonuri

saparlamento asambleis delegaciis

xelmZRvaneli viyavi da

politikidan rom wamovedi, parlamentis

sxvadasxva fraqcias

vTxove, muSaoba gaegrZelebinaT,

raTa saqarTvelo am asambleis

wevri gamxdariyo (Cems

dros damkvirveblis statusi

gvqonda), magram amis gakeTeba

dRemde ver moxerxda, arada, am

asambleis wevroba saqarTvelosTvis

erT-erTi Zlieri tribuna

iqneba, radgan evroparlamentarebis

TiTqmis umravlesoba

am asambleis wevria.

erTi sityviT, Zalian bevri

mizani maqvs, rom xalxi sidux-

Wiridan rogorme amoviyvanoT.

ise, igive 90-ian wlebSi gvegona,

rom imaze uaresi, rac maSin

xdeboda, aRaraferi iqneboda,

magram dRes xalxs saWmlis

fuli ar aqvs! adamianebSi saocari

nihilizmia da saerTod,

sakiTxavia, arCevnebze xalxi

mova Tu ara!

_ Tuki xalxi arCevnebze ar

miva, es „ocnebis” wisqvilze

daasxams wyals, ara?

_ ra Tqma unda. amitomac

xalxTan vmuSaobT da varwmunebT,

rom arCevnebze aucileblad

unda mivides.

iciT, sazogadoebaSi rogori

ganwyobaa?

_ rogori?

_ Zalian mcire nawili „ocnebasa”

da sxva opoziciur partiebs

uWers mxars, umetesoba

ki _ „patriotTa alianss”. mar-

Talia, raRac sisuleleebs aqveyneben,

magram realoba sxvanairia.

quCaSi gavidnen da naxaven,

rac xdeba _ Zalian bevrs gadawyvetilic

ar aqvs, arCevnebze

wava Tu ara!

_ marina, weRan unda mekiTxa

da damaviwyda, parlamentSi Sesvlis

mere zurab Jvanias, gur-

am SaraZisa da sxva saqmeebis

gamoZebis sakiTxs Tu daayen-

ebT?

_ aucileblad da vibrZoleb,

rom es saqmeebi gaixsnas!

_ ise, dRes rom Jvania

cocxali iyos, „patriotebTan”

Tqvens wasvlas moiwonebda? am-

as imitom gekiTxebiT, rom aw

gansvenebuli premieri mkveT-

rad prodasavluri politikis

mimdevari iyo da saqarTvelos

neitralitets mxars ar uWer-

da...

_ vin giTxraT, rom „patriotTa

aliansi” dasavleTTan

urTierTobas uaryofs? Cven

evropasTanac araCveulebrivi

urTierToba gvaqvs, aSS-sTanac

da ruseTTanac! saerTod, Tu

partia xar, diplomatiuri

urTierToba yvela qveyanasTan

unda gqondes, Tumca yvelasTan

sakuTari qveynis politika unda

gaataro. amitom ise nu CaTvliT,

rom „patriotTa alianss”

diplomatiuri urTierToba mxolod

ruseTTan aqvs da briuselTan

Tu vaSingtonTan _

ara! mokled, darwmunebuli

var, rom zura Cems nabijs Zalian

moiwonebda. es partiac zustad

imisTvis ibrZvis, risTvisac

Jvania ibrZoda! „patriotTa

aliansis” prorusulobaze

saubari sasacilo iciT,

kidev ratomaa?

_ ratom?

_ 12 wels, rogorc giTxariT,

frankofonuri saparlamento

asambleis delegaciis xelmZRvaneli

viyavi da swored am

asambleaze gveubnebodnen, rom

saqarTvelos urTierToba yvelasTan

unda hqondes. sxvaTa

Soris, is kidev sxva Temaa, evropul

qveynebSi amerikanizaciis

winaaRmdeg rogor ibrZvian!

_ marina, erTsac gkiTxavT:

Tavis droze duSeTis maJoritari

iyaviT. wels mcxeTa-

mTianeTis maJoritarad kenWs

ratom ar iyriT?

_ partiaSi es sakiTxi ar dasmula,

Tumca rom dasmuliyo,

viyridi. simarTle giTxraT,

CemTvis ufro sainteresoa, rom

politikaSi axali saxeebi movidnen.

wlebis ganmavlobaSi mxolod

duSeTis maJoritari ki

ara, deputati partiuli sii-

Tac viyavi. sakuTar Tavze laparaki

ar miyvars, magram rac

SemeZlo, yvelaferi gavakeTe.

_ ise, marina, ivaniSvilsa da

saakaSvils rom SexvdeT, ras

hkiTxavT?

_ ivaniSvils vkiTxav: rad

uRirda, rom kohabitacias Seuwyo

xeli da isev is Zala moiyvana,

romlis winaaRmdegac amdeni

energia daxarja da yvelaferi

gaakeTa, rom am mkvlelebisa

da naZiralebisgan politikuri

veli gaeTavisuflebina?

rac Seexeba saakaSvils, yvelaferi

is, rac bolo Sexvedrisas

vuTxari, ausrulda da swored

amas gavaxsenebdi.

_ da bolo Sexvedraze miSas

ra uTxariT?

_ Seni gundi dagRupavs-meTqi.

_ anu fiqrobT, rom saqar-

Tvelos mesame prezidenti

sakuTrama gundam daRupa?

_ diax, daRupa!

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

13


ìvaniSvilma kobaxiZe

arCevnebamde erTi TviT adre

giorgi abaSiZe

politikuri ara, magram ekonomikuri

procesebi dramatulad vi-

Tardeba, anu erovnuli valuta TiTqmis yoveldRe ufasurd-

eba da Tu ase gagrZelda, SesaZloa, isec moxdes, rom 31 oq-

tombers, anu arCevnebis dRes, erTi amerikuli dolari 4.1

laric ki Rirdes. amis paralelurad, qveyanaSi epidviTare-

bac rTuldeba da saqme iqamdec ki mivida, rom ramdenime dRis

win msoflios koronarukaze saqarTvelom mwvane statusi

dakarga da e. w. yviTel zonaSi gadavida. sxvaTa Soris, xelisufleba

ambobs, rom kovidinficirebulTa matebis miuxe-

davad, sagangaSo araferia, magram nebismieri Cvengani xvdeba,

rom is sayovelTao aRtaceba, rac koronobis pirvel talRas

axlda, TiTidan iyo gamowovili, anu koronas meore talRam

dagvanaxa, rom xelisuflebis kargi krizismenejeroba Cveu-

lebrivi sapnis buSti yofila da meti araferi.

ratom gaeqca „ocnebas” koronas

marTvis sadaveebi? _ albaT,

mova dro da am Temaze kompetenturi

adamianebi ufro argumentirebulad

isaubreben. manamde

ki politikuri moZraoba „tribunis”

warmomadgeneli, kote kemularia,

ambobs, rom koronavirusi,

romelic, Tavis droze, „ocnebis”

mokavSired miiCneoda, axla

xelisuflebisTvis Wirad iqca.

sxvaTa Soris, Cveni respondenti

erT skandalur gancxadebasac

akeTebs, anu kote kemularia

„qronika+”-s eubneba, rom ramdenime

dReSi „ocnebis” regionuli

liderebis mxilebas daiwyebs da

sazogadoebas maTze xmaurian

masalebs gaacnobs.

visze da ra masalebs gamoaqveynebs

„tribunis” warmomadgeneli?

_ amas ramdenime dReSi

gavigebT, manamde ki kote kemularia

Cvens gamocemasTan interviuSi

sxvadasxva sociologiur

kvlevas afasebs da ambobs, rom im

SemTxvevaSi, Tu „ocneba” xelisuflebaSi

darCenas mesame vadiTac

daapirebs, maSin movlenebi Sesa-

Zloa, 2003 wlis noembris an

ukrainis „meidnis” scenariT ganviTardes.

vin gajora kobaxiZe da ra

moxdeba 31 oqtombers? _ „qron-

ika+” gTavazobT intervius kote

kemulariasTan:

_ batono kote, arCevnebamde

Tveze naklebia darCenili. sxvadasxva

organizacia kvlevas kvlevaze

aqveynebs, magram miTx-

ariT, Tqveni prognozi rogoria

_ 31 oqtombers ra moxdeba?

_ prognozamde mocemulobaze

visaubroT, anu garkveuli siaxleebia.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ „ocnebac” da „nacionalebic”,

romlebic arCevnebis mTavar

monawileebs eZaxian Tavs, 31 oqtombers

sakmaod daZabulebi

xvdebian, radgan orive gundis

SigniT raRac iseTi viTarebaa.

_ kerZod?

_ regionebSi xalxTan mudmivi

kontaqti gvaqvs da „ocnebis”

yofili wevrebi Zalian ukmayofiloni

arian. isini CvenTan, anu

„tribunaSi” arcTu cota raodenobiT

gadmovidnen. am adamianebs

Rirseba SenarCunebuli aqvT da

fiqroben, rom qveyanaSi iseTi

viTareba araa, rasac uflebebis

dacva, progresi da ganviTareba

hqvia. mokled, es xalxi cdilobs,

urTierToba im politikur ZalebTan

daamyaros, romelsac mxolod

sazogadoebasTan misasvleli

piri ki ara, imis resursic

aqvs, rom qveyana ganaviTaros.

mokled, xalxi Zvel partiebs

tovebs.

_ anu, batono kote, imas am-

bobT, rom xalxi „nacionalur

moZraobasac” tovebs?

_ diax. sxvaTa Soris, axla

raRacebs vazusteb da ramdenime

dReSi presasTan konkretuli

faqtebiT vilaparakeb, Tu ra

mdgomareobaa, magaliTad, samegreloSi.

_ mainc, ra viTarebaa?

_ yofili xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi

dRes ise pozicionireben,

rogorc „ocnebis”

wevrebi. metic, mmarTveli partia

cdilobs, es adamianebi mama

abraamis batknebad warmoaCinos,

magram ori-sami dRe macadeT da

am viTom mama abraamis batknebze

srul simarTles warmogidgenT!

_ adamianebi, romelTa mxile-

basac gegmavT, „ocnebis” rigiTi

wevrebi arian?

_ ara, Zalian maRali rangis

poziciebi ukaviaT.

_ sainteresoa, Tumca amis

miuxedavad, yvela kvleviT, „oc-

neba” arCevnebs igebs, „tribuna”

ki reitingebSi saerTod araa.

_ „tribuna” reitingebSi verc

iqneba, radgan yvelam viciT, es

reitingebi rogorc tardeba,

Tumca gamokiTxvebs Cvenc vatarebT

da Zalian kargad viciT,

ra viTarebacaa. ise, ar vambob,

yofil da axlandel saxelisuflebo

partiebs reitingi saer-

Tod ar aqvT-meTqi, magram, magaliTad,

„ocnebis” reitingi, Tu

gaxsovT, 70-ze meti iyo, axla ki

21-25 procentia.

_ SeiZleba, Tumca mamuka mdi-

naraZe acxadebs, rom „ocneba”

arCevnebSi xmebis 60 procentze

mets aiRebs...

_ mdinaraZeze drosac ar

davkargav da rasac ambobs, mis

sindis-namusze iyos. sxvaTa Soris,

kobaxiZem, Tavis droze, daviT

narmanias gamarjveba miuloca,

magram aRmoCnda, rom meore

turi iyo da amis gamo uxerxul

mdgomareobaSi Cavarda. mdinara-

Zeebi, kobaxiZeebi da xaindravebi

salomesac TaigulebiT miadgnen,

kote kemularia:

òri-sami dRe

macadeT da

òcnebis~ mama

abraamis batknebze

srul simarTles

gaigebT!~

magram aqac aRmoCnda, rom es gamarjvebac

blefi iyo da saprezidento

arCevnebSic meore turi

dainiSna. wesiT, sazogadoebas

isic unda axsovdes, kobaxiZem

rom Tqva, 50 procentsac ver

movagrovebTo, magram mere scemes

_ saxeze raRacebi etyoboda

da zustad erT dReSi sakuTari

naTqvami gadaTqva.

_ kobaxiZes vin scema?

_ biZina ivaniSvilma, Tumca

cemas gadataniTi mniSvnelobiT

vambob, anu kobaxiZe seriozulad

gajores da es unamuso kaci meore

dRes gamovarda, _ ras

`sxvaTa Soris, kobaxiZem, Tavis droze, daviT

narmanias gamarjveba miuloca, magram aRmoCnda,

rom meore turi iyo da amis gamo uxerxul

mdgomareobaSi Cavarda. mdinaraZeebi,

kobaxiZeebi da xaindravebi salomesac

TaigulebiT miadgnen, magram aqac aRmoCnda,

rom es gamarjvebac blefi iyo da saprezidento

arCevnebSic meore turi dainiSna. wesiT,

sazogadoebas isic unda axsovdes, kobaxiZem rom

Tqva, 50 procentsac ver movagrovebTo, magram

mere scemes - saxeze raRacebi etyoboda da

zustad erT dReSi sakuTari naTqvami gadaTqva~

laparakobT, „ocnebas” 62-procenti

aqvso... „ocnebis” warmomadgenlebs

arc namusi aqvT da

sazogadoebis winaSe arc pasuxismgeblobas

grZnoben. erT dRes

erTs amboben, meore dRes ki _

meores, radgan ase avaleben. amitom

maTze saubarSi dro ar

davkargoT... sxvaTa Soris, igive

gamokiTxvebidan Cans, rom sazogadoebis

58 procenti ar ambobs,

xmas vis aZlevs. es adamianebi

„ocnebis” mxardamWerebi rom

iyvnen, amis Sesaxeb, cxadia, iyvirebdnen

da xelisuflebis winaSe

Tavs moiwonebdnen, magram faqtia,

sazogadoebis es nawili „ocnebas”

xmas ar aZlevs.

_ SeiZleba, magram amomrCev-

lis is nawili, romelic sakuTar

politikur simpaTias xmamaRla

ar afiqsirebs, ratom ggoniaT,

rom maincdamainc „tribunas”

miscems xmas?

_ es arc me mgonia. ubralod,

imas vambob, rom es amomrCeveli

opoziciis mxardamWeria da

swored arCevnebamde darCenil

erT TveSi gadawydeba, es adamianebi

romel opoziciur partias

miscemen xmas. saerTod, namdvili

saarCevno kampania axla iwyeba da

31 oqtombramde darCenil erT

TveSi politikosebma xelebdakapiwebulebma

unda viSromoT _ amomrCevlebs

SevxvdeT, maTi moTxovnebi

Tu survilebi movisminoT

da Cveni samoqmedo gegmac swored

amis mixedviT SevadginoT!

ise, politikosebi iseT raRacebs

laparakoben, rac mxolod logikaSi

ki ara, saarCevno samarTal-

Sic ar jdeba. ai, magaliTad, amboben,

erTianebi unda viyoTo,

magram Cven konkurentebi varT

da azri ar aqvs, amomrCevlis

ndobis mopovebas vcdilobdeT,

anu imis damalvas, Tu vinme ar

mogvwons, maT Soris, opoziciidanac.

Tu amas davmalavT, aragulwrfeli

TamaSi gamova, rac

xalxisTvis Zalian advili Sesam-

Cnevia. aseT aragulwrfelobaze

wasvla ki politikaSi TviTmkvlelobis

tolfasia.

erTi sityviT, politikosebi

gulwrfelebi unda viyoT da

xalxs Cveni profesionalizmi Tu

gamocdileba davanaxoT. diax,

mosaxleobas ar unda davumaloT,

rom misi fuli mevaxSeeebs, mikrosafinanso

organizaciebsa da

maT ukan mdgar bankebs aqvT miTvisebuli

da es fuli ukan unda

dabrundes! xalxs isic unda vu-

TxraT, rom Cveni qveynis, ase vTqvaT,

sakontrolo paketi ram-

14

14 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


seriozulad gajora!~

denime komerciuli bankis xelSia,

magram maTi socialuri pasuxismgebloba,

praqtikulad, nulia,

anu komerciuli bankebi xalxze

ki ara, mxolod sakuTar mogebaze

zrunaven. Cven swored es usamarTloba

unda gavasworoT! Tu

ase ar moxdeba, maSin saxelmwifo

aRar gveqneba, radgan xazinaSi

aaraferia, erovnuli banki mxolod

komerciul bankebze

muSaobs _ erTmaneTTan garigebuli

arian. Sesabamisad, garedan

Semosuli nasesxebi fulic komerciul

bankebSi ideba da xalxi,

mapatieT da, xaxamSrali rCeba!

_ batono kote, komerciuli

bankebis mxileba „tribunis”,

rogorc ityvian, mTavari

saarCevno „fiSkaa”, magram mx-

olod am TemiT xalxs rogor

daarwmunebT, rom xelisufleba

Sesacvlelia?

_ normalur viTarebaSi qveynis

ekonomikis, maqsimum, 25 procenti

ori komerciuli bankis

xelSi unda iyos, magram dRes am

komerciul bankebs qveynis

ekonomikis lamis 65 procentze

meti ukanonod aqvs miTvisebuli,

rac paTologiaa _ rogor Sei-

Zleba, qveynisa da xalxis amxela

qoneba da kapitali komerciuli

bankebis xelSi iyos?! yvelafers

Tavi rom davaneboT, xalxisgan

amoRebuli fuli, e. w. dagrovebiTi

pensia, romelic 560 milionia,

komerciul bankebSi devs, rac

arajansaRia. qveyanas saxelmwifo

sadazRveo kompaniac ki ar gaaCnia,

rom pensiebi daazRvios da

komerciulma bankma moxucebi ar

gaRlitos. mokled, Cven balanss

sasamarTlos meSveobiT gava-

TanabrebT da saxelmwifo qonebis,

minimum, 55 procenti saxelmwifosve

daubrundeba. saerTod,

saxelmwifos politikuri movaleoba

xalxze zrunvaa. amis Semdeg

laparaki pensiebis garomagebazec

SeiZleba da mosaxleobis

darRveuli uflebebis aRdgenac!

_ batono kote, yvelaferi es

gasagebia, magram sxva rames gekiTxebiT,

anu 2012 wlis ms-

gavsad, sazogadoebas dResac

aqvs ganwyoba, rom xelisufleba

aucileblad unda Seicvalos?

sxvaTa Soris, analitikosTa nawili

ambobs, Tuki opozicia erTmaneTTan

kinklaobas gaagr-

Zelebs, „ocnebas” safrTxe ar

emqureba da xelisuflebaSi me-

same vadiTac darCebao...

_ simarTle giTxraT, ar vici,

amis Tqma romel analitikoss

mouvida azrad. igive ucxouri

organizaciebis gamokiTxvebiT,

mosaxleobis 76 procenti xelisuflebis

Secvlas araTu

elodeba, aramed, iTxovs! amasTan,

70 procentze meti miiCnevs, rom

saxelmwifo araswori gziT vi-

Tardeba. aqedan gamomdinare, Zneli

misaxvedri araa, xalxis ganwyoba

rogoria, magram weRandeli

Tqmisa ar iyos, opoziciam

arCevnebi raRac erTiani siiT ki

ar unda moigos, aramed TiToeuli

opoziciuri Zala, da aseTi

`Tu realurad vimsjelebT, òcnebis~ reitingi, maqsimum, 26-27 procentia. es

cifri ki ar moimatebs, piriqiT, daiklebs, magram mmarTveli partiis

reitingi 30-is farglebSic rom darCes, erTi analitikosic ki, sul rom

Worvilidan biZinas biZaSvili iyos, ver ityvis, es reitingi òcnebas~

saparlamento umravlesobisTvis, anu 76 mandatisTvis eyofao~

bevrni varT, amomrCevelTan unda

mivides da daarwmunos, rom sxvadasxva

opoziciuri ZalisTvis

micemul xmebs, saboloo jamSi,

xelisuflebis Secvla mohyveba!

ai, es gzaa swori da is, vinc ambobs,

rom „ocneba” xelisuflebaSi

mesame vadiTac darCeba,

analitikosi ki ara, biZinas daqiravebulia!

politikaSi sakmaod

didi gamocdileba maqvs da, me Tu

mkiTxavT, opozicia axla swor

gzaze dgas, anu imas ki ar unda

velodoT, rom raRac jgufuri

aRlumebi gveqneba, aramed pasuxismgebloba

TiToeulma unda avi-

RoT da adamianebi davarwmunoT,

rom xelisufleba aucileblad

unda Seicvalos, ris Semdegac

iseTi mTavroba da xelisufleba

gveyoleba, romelic xalxis

winaSe pasuxismgebeli iqneba.

_ sxvaTa Soris, mixeil saakaSvilic,

praqtikulad, amas ambobs,

anu erT-erTi bolo gamosvlisas

eqsprezidentma ganacxa-

da, aranairi koalicia, axali

mTavroba mTlianad „nacionalurma

moZraobam” unda daako-

mpleqtoso.

_ me amas ar vambob.

_ aba, ras ambobT, batono

kote?

_ yvelaferi arCevnebis Sedegebze

iqneba damokidebuli.

_ diax, mesmis, Tumca isic

cnobilia, rom „tribuna” ar

apirebs, koaliciuri mTavroba

„nacebs” an „qocebs” Seuqmnas...

_ ki batono, asea.

_ hoda, TqvenTvis ra mniS-

vneloba aqvs, koaliciisTvis

xmebi romel politikur Zalas

daakldeba?

_ axla yvela partia imisTvis

ibrZvis, rom xmebis maqsimaluri

raodenoba miiRos. sxva rameze ki

arCevnebis damTavrebis Semdeg

vilaparakoT...

_ keTili, es Tema arCevnebis

Semdeg ganvavrcoT, magram

iziarebT Tu ara mosazrebas,

rom „nacionalebisa” da Tundac

„evrosaqebis” kinklaoba „ocneb-

is” saarCevno wisqvilze asxams

wyals?

_ Cemi mxridan sxva partiebis

survilebis komentireba arc koreqtuli

iqneba da arc _ Sedegis

momtani, magram roca erTic

`rogor SeiZleba, qveynisa da xalxis amxela

qoneba da kapitali komerciuli bankebis xelSi

iyos?! yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT,

xalxisgan amoRebuli fuli, e. w. dagrovebiTi

pensia, romelic 560 milionia, komerciul

bankebSi devs, rac arajansaRia. qveyanas

saxelmwifo sadazRveo kompaniac ki ar gaaCnia,

rom pensiebi daazRvios da komerciulma bankma

moxucebi ar gaRlitos. mokled, Cven balanss

sasamarTlos meSveobiT gavaTanabrebT da

saxelmwifo qonebis, minimum, 55 procenti

saxelmwifosve daubrundeba~

da meorec amtkicebs, mTavari

varo, es „Suas gakrefis” pozicia

da, vfiqrob, fuWi mcdelobaa.

_ ratom?

_ wina arCevnebisgan gansxvavebiT,

axla politikaSi sami velia.

_ anu?

_ 1. xelisufleba, 2. e. w. mTavari

opozicia, rogorc zemoxsenebuli

partiebi sakuTar Tavs

eZaxian da 3. opozicia, romelic,

realurad, adamianis uflebebisTvis

ibrZvis da sakuTar Tavs

arc „nacebSi” xedavs da arc _

„ocnebaSi”.

_ batono kote, CamizusteT:

„nacmoZraoba” da „evropuli

saqarTvelo” joxis erT bolod

migaCniaT Tu ara?

_ amaze verafers getyviT.

jobia, amis Taobaze maT hkiTxoT,

Tumca informaciam gamoJona,

rom parlamentis momaval Tavmjdomareze

molaparakebebs awarmoebdnen

da aqedan daskvnas amomrCeveli

gaakeTebs.

_ da mainc, batono kote, Tuki

ise moxda, rom „ocneba” xelisuflebaSi

darCenas mesame vadi-

Tac gadawyvets da 31 oqtombers

Tavs gamarjvebulad gamo-

acxadebs, Tqveni azriT, pirvel

oqtombers, anu arCevnebis meore

dRes, ra moxdeba?

_ vxedavT, rom iseTi avtoritetuli

da miukerZoebeli saer-

TaSoriso organizaciebis gamokiTxviT,

rogoric, magaliTad, „endiai”

Tu „airaia”, „qarTuli ocnebis”

reitingi 30-procentis

farglebSia. sxvaTa Soris, es kvlevebi

maSinaa Catarebuli, roca

pandemiis Sedegebi garTulebuli

ar iyo. axla ki jandacva, praqtikulad,

CamoSlilia da „ocnebas”

korona Wirad eqca. Cemi informaciiT,

gamokvlevebis savele

samuSaoebi axlac tardeba.

_ sxva rame gkiTxeT da, ukac-

ravad, es ra SuaSia?

_ mokled, imis Tqma minda, rom

Tu realurad vimsjelebT, „ocnebis”

reitingi, maqsimum, 26-27

procentia. es cifri ki ar moimatebs,

piriqiT, daiklebs, magram

mmarTveli partiis reitingi 30-

is farglebSic rom darCes, erTi

analitikosic ki, sul rom Worvilidan

biZinas biZaSvili iyos,

ver ityvis, es reitingi „ocnebas”

saparlamento umravlesobisTvis,

anu 76 mandatisTvis eyofao.

arc is dagvaviwydes, rom sakonstitucio

cvlilebebiT proporciul

arCevnebSi, ase vTqvaT,

sakontrolo paketi 40 procentia.

hoda, „ocneba” am 40 procents

ver moagrovebs.

_ es Teoriulad, magram, da-

vuSvaT, mmarTvelma gundma

arCevnebi totalurad gaayalba

da Tavi gamarjvebulad gamoacx-

ada. ai, amis Semdeg ra xdeba?

_ amis Semdeg is moxdeba, rac

2003 wels saqarTveloSi an, Tavis

droze, ukrainasa da mezobel

somxeTSi moxda.

_ anu revolucia?

_ roca sakuTar xalxs konstutucias,

strategiul partniorebs,

maT Soris, aSS-s mis mier

Catarebul kvlevebs Tavze axev,

imas miiReb, rasac aseT dros

Rebuloben xolme _ sanqciebi

iqneba!

_ movlenebis am scenariT gan-

viTareba realuria?

_ yvela saerTaSoriso organizacia

ambobs, rom 31 oqtombris

arCevnebi testi iqneba, saqarTveloSi

demokratia gagrZeldeba

Tu ara. im SemTxvevaSi, Tu am

tests ver Caabarebs, Zneli gamosacnobi

araa, rom am xelisuflebas

Zalian mZime momavali elis!

_ vnaxoT, ra da rogor iqne-

ba, magram im fonze, roca lari

rekordulad ufasurdeba da

socialuri fonic mZimdeba, 31

oqtombramde xalxi rogor mi-

aRwevs?

_ imis Sesaxeb, ra gamosavalic

31 oqtombris Semdegaa, ukve visaubreT

_ saxelmwifom is saxsrebi,

romelic gaflangulia, unda

daibrunos da sakuTar moqalaqeebze

fiqri daiwyos. rac Seexeba im

nabijebs, romlebic 31-mde unda

gadaidgas, Tu „ocnebaSi” vinme

Wkviani mainc aris, imaze unda ifiqros,

rom am erT TveSi soflis

meurneobis produqtebis gadamuSaveba

daiwyos. dRes Cven Tavidan

bolomde imaze varT damokidebuli,

rom saWmeli ucxoeTidan

SemovitanoT. xorblis Semotanac

mTlianad ruseTs miabes...

pandemia mxolod CvenTan ki ara,

mTel msoflioSia da, Sesabamisad,

produqtebi yvelagan Zvirdeba.

Cven ki mxolod muSaxeli ki ar

gyavs, aramed miwac gvaqvs da wyalic,

rom saWmeli vawarmooT.

amitom sakvebi prduqtebis warmoeba

xvalidanve unda daiwyos,

magram mTeli parlamenti da mTavroba

_ Ss ministris moadgile

xaniSvilidan dawyebuli TurnavaTi

damTavrebuli, importis

lobistebiTaa savse da ar undaT,

rom kitri, kartofili Tu pomidori

saqarTveloSi modiodes. ai,

swored amis gamosworeba unda

daviwyoT da maragebi SevqmnaT, magram,

samwuxarod, es amaT TavSi ar

Sedis da am ekonomikuri krizisis

daZlevas xalxisTvis 200 laris

darigebiT cdiloben. arada, yvela

vxvdebiT, rom es krizisi fulis

darigebiT ver daiZleva!

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

15


`Cveni saerTaSoriso partniorebic mixvdnen,

saqmes iseTi piri uCans, rom

Sorena marsagiSvili

oqtomberi politikurad cxeli

599 92 16 22

iqneba. aSkaraa, xelisufleba

Zaladobaze uars ar ityvis. ama-

Si eWvi arc arasamTavrobo organizacia „Secvales” erT-erT

damfuZnebel dimitri biZinaSvils epareba. is Tavis megobar

levan xabeiSvils saarCevno kampaniis warmoebaSi exmareba.

xabeiSvili samgoris maJoritarad iyris kenWs. cota xnis winaT

mas afrikis dasaxlebaSi ofisi daurbies. darbeva dRisiT-

mzisiT moxda, magram damrbevebi aravis gamouvlenia. biZinaS-

vili darwmunebulia, rom msgavsi faqtebi kidev iqneba, ma-

gram es verc opozicias daaSinebs da verc _ amomrCevels.

vis unda CamoerTvas qone-

ba? vin unda wavides cixeSi?

rogor atyuebs ivaniSvili

amomrCevels? gaWris Tu ara

am arCevnebze kidev erTxel

oligarqis triukebi? ratom

aRar surT dasavlel partniorebs

masTan TanamSromlo-

ba? ra aris „qarTuli ocneb-

is” prioriteti? _ am Temebis

Sesaxeb „qronika+”-s dimitri

biZinaSvili esaubreba:

_ batono biZina, opozicia

da uflebadamcvelebi Civian,

rom winasaarCevno periodSi

„qarTuli ocneba” oponentebis

winaaRmdeg Zaladobriv me-

Todebs iyenebs. Tqven aqtiurad

xarT saarCevno proces-

ebSi CarTuli da ras gvetyviT

amis Sesaxeb?

_ Zaladoba TvalSi sacemia.

mogexsenebaT, Cems megobar levan

xabeiSvils vexmarebi da

xSirad miwevs amomrCevelTan

Sexvedrebze siaruli. Cven

roca amomrCevels vesaubrebiT,

Tu rogor unda amovides

qveyana am Waobidan, „ocnebis”

momxreebi qvebs agroveben da

gvesvrian. yvelam iciT, rom

afrikis dasaxlebaSi xabeiSvilis

Stabs qvebi dauSines da

minebi Calewes. es ar iyo levanisTvis

nasroli qvebi, „ocnebam”

qvebi simarTles dauSina.

es SuSebi rom Calewes, kriminali

aRmoifxvra Tu lari

gamyarda? an, iqneb, gaWirveba

aRar aris? TbilisSi Zalian

bevrs uWirs, magram samgoris

raioni erT-erTi yvelaze

gaWirvebuli ubania. imis nacvlad,

rom maTi mdgomareobis

Semsubuqebaze izrunon, qvebi

moimarages da oponentis Stabs

dauSines. es qvebi Tavad „qar-

Tul ocnebas” moxvdeba, arCevnebze

sakadriss pasuxs miiReben

xalxisgan.

am Zaladobis fonze, ukiduresad

gaWirvebul raionSi,

saxelisuflebo kandidati dadis

da amomrCevels eubneba,

Tu amirCevT, raRacebs gavakeTebo.

arada, es kaci rva welia,

rac xelisuflebaSia da

ramis gakeTeba rom sdomoda,

amisTvis sakmarisi dro hqonda.

samgorSi aucileblad waikiTxaven

Tqvens gazeTs da maT minda

mivmarTo: Tu undaT, rom

araferi Seicvalos, maSin sozar

subari airCion. es adamiani

arafers gaakeTebs da

samgoris mosaxleobis problemebi

kvlav gadauWreli darCeba.

oponentebze Tavdasxmebi da

Zalmomreoba „qarTuli ocnebis”

maxasiaTebelia. imis nacvlad,

rom qveynis Cixidan gamoyvanaze

ifiqron, qvebs agroveben

da isvrian. arc erTi danapirebi

ar SeusrulebiaT xalxisTvis.

amis gadafarvas ZaladobiT

cdiloben.

_ xelisuflebis mtkicebiT,

TiTqmis yvela danapirebi Ses-

rulebulia. maTi erT-erTi

lideri mamuka mdinaraZe am-

bobs, uamravi sawarmo gaixsna,

rac xelisuflebaSi movediTo.

_ fulis Sovnis sawarmoebi

marTla gaxsnes farcxalaZeebma,

uCa mamacaSvilebma da vano

CxartiSvilebma. ivaniSvilis

garemocva Tavze daajda qveyanas

da Cvens xarjze Soulobs

milionebs. aseulobiT milioni

lari mopara am jgufma Cvens

moqalaqeebs. am fuliT uamravi

saqmis gakeTeba SeiZleboda. ar

dagvaviwydes, rom ganviTarebul

qveynebSi adamianebi 10

wliT ufro didi xniT cxovroben,

vidre saqarTveloSi,

radgan Rirseuli pensia aqvT

da naklebad nerviuloben. arc

medikamentebis SeZenis problema

aqvT da arc _ eqimTan misvlis.

am yvelafridan gamomdinare,

Tamamad SegviZlia vTqvaT,

rom „qarTuli ocneba”

fulTan erTad Cvens mosaxleobas

sicocxlesac hparavs. amitom

keTili vineboT da

SevcvaloT arsebuli viTareba.

oligarqma ivaniSvilma da misma

garemocvam aucileblad

unda daabrunon is Tanxebi,

rac saqarTvelos mosaxleobas

mohpares.

_ moparul Tanxebs vin

abrunebda, amaT rom daabr-

unon?

_ odesme xom unda daisajos

viRac xalxis fulis moparvisTvis?

darwmunebuli var,

rom moparulis dabruneba mouwevT.

_ TqviT, rom keTili unda

vineboT da SevcvaloTo. cv-

lilebebi xalxis gareSe ar

gamova. bevr adamians xvdebiT

da ras amboben, arian cvlile-

bebisTvis mzad?

_ xalxi didi xania, ukve cvlilebebs

iTxovs. Cvens arasamTavrobo

organizacias amitomac

davarqviT „Secvale”. xalxi

mzadaa cvlilebebisTvis, amas

yovel wams vgrZnob. ase cxovreba

ukve SeuZlebelia. arian

adamianebi, romlebc lukmapuris

saSovnelad ibrZvian.

aris dReebi, rodesac verafers

Souloben da mSivrebi

dimitri biZinaSvili:

àxla asfaltic aRar

aris, rom SeWamo.

sruli seriozulobiT

geubnebiT, asfalti

aRar aris~

rCebian. kargad vici, rom

saqarTveloSi xalxs uWirs, magram

iman, rac samgorSi vnaxe,

yovelgvar molodins gadaaWarba.

aseT gaWirvebas verc

warmovidgendi. aris ubnebi,

sadac gavlac ki SeuZlebelia.

ra ganviTarebazea saubari,

roca Tbilisis erT-erT uban-

Si ganaTebis, gzisa da kanalizaciis

problemebia. rodesac

ivaniSvili politikaSi Riad

gamoCnda, xalxma ifiqra, rom

miliarderi maT cxovrebas

ukeTesobisken Secvlida; rom

ivaniSvils maTi fulebi ar

undoda. xalxi mwared motyuvda.

miliarderi qveynis biujets

daepatrona, romelsac

misi garemocva xravs. xalxi ki

kidev ufro gaaRataka.

_ 2013 wels gviTxra, Cems

mosvlas Tqvens jibeebze igrZnobTo

da marTlac vigrZen-

iT.

_ vigrZeniT da Tanac rogor.

kidev ufro Raribebi varT

vidre 2012 wlamde viyaviT. amasTan,

kidev ufro bevri vali

gvaqvs, vidre „ocnebis” mosvlamde

iyo. 2012 wlamde erT

adamianze 2000 laris odenobis

vali modioda. axla erT adamianze

7000 lari vali modis.

2012 wlamde es valebi imitom

dagrovda, rom infrastruqturuli

proeqtebi xorcieldeboda.

axla valebis gasastumreblad

araferi keTdeba, vali

ki izrdeba da izrdeba. ase Tu

gagrZelda, rogorc saxelmwifo,

SeiZleba gavkotrdeT. amaze

qarTveli xalxi unda dafiqrdes

da arCevani civi gonebiT

gaakeTos. sazogadoeba unda

Camoyalibdes, ra surs mas _ ke-

TildReoba, Tu isev am WaobSi

darCena? kriminalma ise moimata,

bavSvebis gareT gaSvebis eSiniaT

mSoblebs. 36%-iT iklo

danaSaulis gaxsnis maCvenebelma.

`samgorSi aucileblad waikiTxaven Tqvens

gazeTs da maT minda mivmarTo: Tu undaT,

rom araferi Seicvalos, maSin sozar subari

airCion. es adamiani arafers gaakeTebs da

samgoris mosaxleobis problemebi kvlav

gadauWreli darCeba~

_ Ss ministri gomelauri

ambobs, rom araferi gan-

sakuTrebuli da sagangaSo ar

xdeba.

_ sagangaSo rogor ar xdeba?

parlamentis Tavmjdomare

arCil TalakvaZes saxli orjer

gautexes. parlamentis

Tavmjdomaris saxls orjer

rom texaven, moqalaqeebi daculi

rogor iqnebian? baTumsa

da quTaisSi susis maRalCinosnebs

gautexes saxlebi. zestafonSi

mosamarTlis saxlSi

SeaRwies mZarcvelebma. „nacionalebis”

mmarTvelobis dros

raRac problemebi da gadacdomebi

ki iyo, magram kriminalis

aRmofxvra mainc moxerxda.

am Secdomebis gaTvaliswinebiT

kriminalTan brZolis politika

unda gagrZelebuliyo. „ocnebam”

sxva gza airCia da dRes

Zalian mZime kriminogenuri vi-

Tarebaa. samwuxarod, samar-

Taldamcvelebi arc ki cdiloben

damnaSaveebTan brZolas.

saqmeebi ar ixsneba.

_ „nacionalebis” xelisu-

flebidan gaSveba im kadrebis

damsaxurebaa, romelic 2012

wlis arCevnebamde erTi kvir-

iT adre gavrcelda. iq Canda,

rom patimrebs aupatiurebd-

nen. axla vigebT, rom gldanis

cixeSi dawesebulebis xelmZRvaneli

patimrebs gaupatiurebiT

daemuqra. patimrebma protestis

niSnad TviTdazianebe-

bi miiyenes.

_ aranairi gaupatiureba

cixeSi maSin ar yofila. kadrebi,

romelmac mTeli saqarTvelo

SeZra, dadgmuli speqtakli

iyo. es rom asea, „patriotTa

aliansis” warmomadgenlebmac

aRiares. irma inaSvilma pirdapir

wamoaZaxa „ocnebas”, rom

ara Cveni dadgmuli kadrebi,

Tqven xelisuflebaSi ver moxvidodiTo.

es marTlac ase iyo,

_ es kadrebi rom ar gasuliyo

eTerSi, ivaniSvili arCevnebs

ver moigebda. cixeebSi rac ma-

Sin xdeboda, es Zalian cudi

iyo, magram arc axlaa kargi vi-

Tareba. „qarTuli ocnebis”

erT-erTi dapireba iyo, rom

adamianebis uflebebs daicavda.

xalxi am uflebebis dar-

16

16 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


rom ivaniSvilis saxiT aferistTan aqvT saqme~

Rvevis gamo iyo Sewuxebuli,

Torem miSa saakaSvils aravin

edaveboda, ratom gaalamaze

baTumi, siRnaRi an mestiao. „nacionalebis”

mimarT kritikulad

ganwyobil adamianebsac ki

moswondaT, rom axali gzebi

igeboda.

_ bevrs arc es moswonda,

xSirad ambobdnen, _ asfalti

vWamoTo?

_ axla asfaltic aRar aris,

rom SeWamo. sruli seriozulobiT

geubnebiT, asfalti

aRar aris.

_ sad aRar aris asfalti?

_ bevrgan. sul vmoZraob

Tbilisis quCebSi da saocrebebs

vxedav. samgoris raionSia

bevri iseTi quCaa, sadac asfalti

saerTod ar agia. bevrgan

gavla, ubralod, SeuZlebelia.

rva welia, rac xelisuflebaSi

arian da es sakiTxic

ki ver moagvares.

_ gaxariam Tqva, amis gasa-

keTeblad rva weli ar gveyoo.

kaci Cioda, „nacebma” iseTi

areuli qveyana dagvitoves,

imis dalagebas movandomeT am-

deni welio.

_ es ukve dacinvaa. warmodgenac

ar minda, Tu ra moxdeboda,

SevardnaZis wasvlis Semdeg

saqarTvelos xelisuflebis

saTaveSi „qarTuli ocneba”

rom mosuliyo. axla Tu amboben,

rom rva weli ar gveyoo,

SevardnaZis Semdeg raRacebis

gasasworeblad 30 welic ar

eyofodaT. bera ki ambobs, rom

mamaCemi mefeao, magram erTi

Cveulebrivi adamiania da mas

faraoniviT sicocxlis bolomde

aravin datovebs xelisuflebis

saTaveSi. Zalian mniSvnelovani

arCevnebi gvelodeba

win. am arCevnebma unda gadawyvitos,

qveyana viqnebiT Tu _

yana? ivaniSvili gveubneba,

saqarTvelo erTi patara sofeliao.

Tavis mona gaxarias isic

ki aTqmevina, rom saqarTvelosTvis

ganviTarebis modeli

unda iyos saCxereo. arada, jer

kidev cota xis winaT saqarTveloSi

iseT rameebi keTdeboda,

amaze mTeli msoflio laparakobda.

axlac SegviZlia avalaparakoT

msoflio.

„qocebs” undaT dagvarwmunon,

rom Cven varT zarmacebi,

arafris Seqmna ar SegviZlia da

amitom gamudmebiT mama-marCenals

unda vuyuroT xelebSi.

Cveni istoria sapirispiros

amtkicebs. Cvenma winaprebma

uamravi rame Seqmnes da Cvenc

SegviZlia saswaulebis moxdena.

Cveni xalxi yovelTvis gamoir-

Ceoda kreatiulobiT. es unari

arc axla dagvikargavs. biZina

ivaniSvili Tavad xom arafers

qmnis, istoriasac gvinadgurebs.

imisTvis, rom gamdidrebuliyo,

saydrisi agvifeTqa. saqarTvelos

ganviTarebis unari

aqvs. gavimeoreb, rom Cven saswaulebis

moxdenac SegviZlia.

imas ver SevZlebT, rom yvelaze

ganviTarebuli qveyana viyoT,

magram yana namdvilad ar viq-

`darwmunebuli var, am saqmesac gamoiZieben. amaT oRond fuli iSovon da

sul ar ainteresebT `ce~ hepatitiT daavadebuli saqarTvelos moqalaqe. ar

dagvaviwydes, rom am mkurnalobis erTi kursi 80.000 dolaria. amden fuls

Souloben, sasaxleebs iSeneben da mere gveubnebian, rom, Turme, 20.000

larad aiSenes~

nebiT. arc patara soflad viqceviT,

risi survilic biZina

ivaniSvils aqvs. es adamiani Riad

da daufaravad ambobs, rom

saqarTvelos ganviTareba da

fexze dayeneba mis gegmebSi ar

Sedis. namdvilad ar vici, ra

kategoriis xalxma SeiZleba

misces xma mis partias.

_ „ocnebisTvis” xmis mice-

mas bevri apirebs.

_ apireben da ar mesmis, ratom,

magram adamianebsac gaaCnia.

cota xnis winaT morigi

kvlevebi daido, sadac gamokiTxulTa

1% ambobs, rom laris

kursi gamyardao. arc ki vici,

ra vTqva. aseTi adamianebi mas

xmas miscemen, magram sajaro

moxeleebis didi nawili ar

Semoxazavs 41-s. sajaro mox-

eleebi yvelaze ukeT xvdebian,

Tu risi yidvis saSualeba

hqondaT adre da risi saSualeba

aqvT axla. darwmunebuli

var, arCevnebis dasrulebis

Semdeg ivaniSvili Tavisi partuli

aqtivis amara darCeba. am

adamianebs mxolod piradi

keTildReoba ainteresebT. isini

bolomde ibrZoleben, rom

xelisuflebaSi darCnen. laris

gaufasurebaze erovnuli

bankis erT-erTma xelmZRvanelma

pirma Tqva, amas gamyareba

mosdevso. oRond ar dauzustebia,

rodis gamyarda lari gaufasurebis

Semdeg. rva welia,

lari sul ufasurdeba da ufasurdeba.

imdenad unamusoebi

arian, pandemiis drosac ki uamravi

milioni iSoves. ko-

`rodesac ivaniSvili politikaSi Riad

gamoCnda, xalxma ifiqra, rom miliarderi

maT cxovrebas ukeTesobisken Secvlida; rom

ivaniSvils maTi fulebi ar undoda. xalxi

mwared motyuvda. miliarderi qveynis biujets

daepatrona, romelsac misi garemocva xravs.

xalxi ki kidev ufro gaaRataka~

rufciisTvis am Jamianobis

drosac gamonaxes gzebi.

_ premierma Tqva, eg koruf-

cia araa, qarTuli jigruli

pontiao.

_ magari jigruli pontia.

gviTxres, 9 miliardi visesxe-

To. mainteresebs, vis an ras

moaxmares es 9 miliardi? qarTul

jigrul pontSi saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebze dakidebuli

9-miliardiani vali erTmaneTSi

gainawiles. am jigrul

pontSi akeTeben yvelafers.

rodesac „qarTuli ocneba”

xelisuflebaSi modioda, ramdenime

qeisi hqondaT, razedac

gamudmebiT saubrobdnen. axla

imdenia salaparako, rom maviwydeba

kidevac zogierTi maTgani.

arasdros daviviwyeb

farcxalaZesTan dakavSirebul

erT istorias. am adamianma saxelmwifosgan

200.000-ad iyida

miwis nakveTi da ramdenime Tvis

Semdeg 1.200.000-ad mihyida saxelmwifos.

erT weliwadSi kacma

araferSi milioni gaakeTa.

„ocnebis” warmomadgenlebma

saqarTvelos rkinigzaSi saTadarigo

relsi da vagoni ar

datoves. yvelaferi waiRes da

jarTSi Caabares. ician, rom

arCevnebs ageben da Tuki rame

resursi aqvs qveyanas, yvelafers

yidian da anadgureben.

ai, aseT xalxs abaria dRes

saqarTvelo. amaT xelSi winsvla

da ganviTareba ar gveRirseba.

amaTi devizi da mizani

rac SeiZleba meti fulis

Sovnaa. fuli rom ar ainteresebdeT,

biZina ivaniSvilTan ar

gaCerdebodnen. dRemde ver

vxdebi, am kacma rogor SeZlo

xelisuflebis xelSi Cagdeba

da mTel qveyanas amdeni

tyuili rogor daajera?!

_ SeiZleba, arc gvjeroda

am tyuilebis, magram ise gvin-

doda „nacionalebis” Secvla,

rom vijerebdiT.

_ esec aris, magram es saocar

tyuilebs ambobda. sanam

erTs bolomde gaviazrebdiT,

axals gveubneboda.

_ triukebsac atarebda,

amis Sesaxeb Tavad Tqva.

_ ki batono, marTlac triuki

Cagvitara da axla am triukiT

gamowveuli Sedegebis

pirispir davrCiT.

_ faqtia, rom am kacs triukebis

Catareba kargad gamos-

dis da arCevnebzec xom ar

Cagvitarebs morig triuks?

_ ara mgonia, kidev SeZlos

triukis Catareba. xalxma ukve

icis, Tu vin aris ivaniSvili.

Cveni saerTaSoriso partniorebic

mixvdnen, rom aferistTan

aqvT saqme. diplomatiuri

korpusis warmomadgenlebi

pirdapir gveubnebian, rom

biZina ivaniSvilTan TanamSromloba

aravis surs. isinic daiRalnen

am adamianTan muSaobiT.

_ isini ram daRala?

_ Cveni dasavleli megobrebi

dainteresebuli arian, rom

saqarTvelo ganviTardes da

win wavides, amisTvis uamrav

daxmarebas gvaZleven. C hepatitis

samkurnalo programa

dagvifinanses da amasac „qocebi”

ibraleben, Cven gamo gakeTdao.

sinamdvileSi, amerikelebma

naxes, rom Zalian bevri qarTveli

kvdeboda am daavadebiT

da seriozuli programa

gvaCuqes.

_ am programam bevrs uSve-

la, magram wlis dasawyisSi

gavigeT, rom naxevari miliardi

laris Rirebulebis wamlebs

vada gauyvanes. yovel Sem-

TxvevaSi, Cven ase gveubnebian.

_ naCuqari uZviresi medikamentebi

sakuTar mosaxleobas

moakles da gadayares. didi

albaTobiT, ar gaufuWebiaT,

mesame qveynebSi yiddnen. amis

Sesaxeb raRac informaciebi

iyo.

_ amerikelebma Tavad ipov-

es es wamlebi ruseTis Sav

bazarze da amas didi skanda-

li mohyva.

_ darwmunebuli var, am saqmesac

gamoiZieben. amaT oRond

fuli iSovon da sul ar ainteresebT

„ce” hepatitiT daavadebuli

saqarTvelos moqalaqe.

ar dagvaviwydes, rom am

mkurnalobis erTi kursi 80.000

dolaria. amden fuls Souloben,

sasaxleebs iSeneben da

mere gveubnebian, rom, Turme,

20.000 larad aiSenes. xelisuflebidan

rom wavlen, 20.000

lari unda misce da am fuliT

sasaxles Tu ver aaSeneben, is

aSenebuli sasaxleebi unda

CamoarTva da cixeSi gauSva.

Zalian minda, rom am korumpirebulebma

pasuxi agon, magram

arc is minda, es sadamsjelo

operacias hgavdes. sasurvelia,

Seiqmnas damoukidebeli

sasamarTlo sistema, romelic

gvetyvis, Tu ramdenad korumpirebulebi

da damnaSaveebi iyvnen

konkretuli pirovnebebi.

ar minda, sazogadoebaSi imis

gancda gaCndes, rom viRaca

usamarTlod daisaja.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

17


òcnebas~ aqvs Sansi, kidev

opoziciaSi mimdinare procese-

Sorena marsagiSvili

bi Tavad opozicionerebsac

599 92 16 22

aRelvebs. amis miuxedavad, bevri ar

aRiarebs, rom am uTanxmoebam Sesa-

Zloa, seriozuli problemebi Seqmnas arCevnebze. mosalodnel

garTulebebze xmamaRla saubrobda leiboristuli partiis erT-

erTi yofili lideri, giorgi giuaSvili. man partia cota xnis

winaT datova. igi fiqrobs, rom opoziciur flangze arajansaRi

procesebi viTardeba da Tu opoziciam erTmaneTTan qiSps Tavi

ar daaneba, gamarjveba „qarTul ocnebas” darCeba. mas arc imis

imedi aqvs, rom opozicia xmebis dasacavad quCaSi gamova. amaSi

is maSin darwmunda, roca opoziciam srulad proporciuli

saarCevno sistemisTvis brZola Sua gzaze Sewyvita.

ratom datova leiboristuli

partia? ra xdeba opozicia-

Si? ramdeni maJoritaris gay-

vana SeuZlia xelisuflebas?

ratom unda movidnen poli-

tikaSi sufTa da gausvreli

adamianebi? unda hqondes Tu

ara amomrCevels imis imedi,

rom maTi xmebi daculi iqneba?

_ amis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s

borjomis sakrebulos dam-

oukidebeli deputati, giorgi

giuaSvili esaubreba:

_ batono giorgi, Tqven

wlebis ganmavlobaSi lei-

boristuli partiis erT-erTi

lideri iyaviT. cota xnis

winaT es politikuri Zala datoveT.

leiboristebisgan ad-

amianebi xmauriT modian

xolme, Tqven raRac Zalian

Cumad wamoxvediT iqidan.

_ Cumad imitom ar wamovsulvar,

rom saTqmeli araferi

mqonda. bevri rame SemeZlo me-

Tqva, magram dumili vamjobine.

am dumils arc momavalSi davarRvev.

amiT, pirvel rigSi,

sakuTar Tavs vcem pativs, radganac

im partiaSi wlebi gavatare.

vdumvar partiaSi darCenili

adamianebis gamoc, romlebsac

Zalian did pativs vcem.

wamosvliT imitom wamovedi,

rom partiul xelmZRvanelobasTan

mqonda uTanxmoeba.

_ Tqven Soris raRac uTanxmoeba

rom iyo, es CvenTvis mocemuli

interviuebidanac Can-

da, magram maSin ar ambobdiT,

rom uTanxmoeba iyo. raze ver

TanxmdebodiT Tqven da lei-

boristebis xelmZRvaneloba?

_ gansxvavebulad vuyurebdiT

mTel rig sakiTxebs. Sida

da gare mimarTulebebze me sxva

pozicia mqonda, imaT _ sxva.

Zalian bevr rameSi ar veTanxmebodi.

aqedan gamomdinare, partiidan

wamovedi da axla borjomis

sakrebulos damoukidebeli

deutati var.

2000 wlidan moyolebuli aqtiur

politikaSi Sevedi. arc

erTi arCevnebi gamomitovebia,

yvelaSi vmonawileobdi. zogjer

warmomadgeneli viyavi, zogjer

_ damkvirvebeli. xan romelime

kandidats vuWerdi mxars.

am arCevnebze sxvanairad

iqneba _ ar vici, ra gavakeTo.

_ 2020-is arCevnebze das-

veneba gadawyviteT?

_ dasveneba ar gadamiwyvetia,

magram imdenad gamiWirda leiboristebidan

wamosvlis Sem-

18

599 92 16 22

giorgi giuaSvili:

deg, ver warmoidgenT. partiebSi

gadaxtoma-gadmoxtoma

didad ar miyvars da arc maxasiaTebs.

romc yofiliyo es Cemi

damaxasiaTebeli Tviseba, partias

ver vnaxavdi, sadac Sevidodi.

arc erTi opoziciuri

partia ar iwvevs CemSi simpa-

Tias. romelime maTganSi gawevrianeba

ki ara, iseTi partiac

ar aris, rom arCevnebSi mxari

davuWiro.

_ aseTi saSineli opozicia

gvyavs, rom xmis micemac ki ar

SeiZleba romelime maTgan-

isTvis?

_ katastrofuli viTarebaa

opoziciaSi. Cveni sazogadoeba,

politikosebi da media ver gamovidnen

Zveli CarCoebidan. media

da politikosebi mxolod

sakuTar mrevlze muSaoben da

danarCeni ubralod ar ainteresebT.

es situacia Zalian kargad

aisaxeba gamokiTxvebSi, sadac

naTlad Cans, rom mosaxleobis

didi nawili an ar midis

arCevnebze, an Tu wava, arc erT

partias ar miscems xmas da yvelas

gadaxazavs. opozicia imiT

imSvidebs guls, rom amdeni

gadauwyveteli amomrCevelia.

maT adgilze me ase arxeinad ar

viqnebodi.

_ ratom ar iqnebodiT arxeinad?

miiCneva, rom gadauw-

yveteli amomrCevlis xmebi

opoziciisken midis.

_ gadauwyveteli amomrCevlis

xmebi yovelTvis opoziciisken

ar midis. axlac am SemTxvevasTan

gvaqvs saqme. es adamianebi

ver xedaven iseT Zalas,

romelsac SeiZleba, xma miscen.

amitomac arian gadauwyvetelebi.

mosaxleobis didi nawili

„qarTul ocnebas” aginebs da

Zalian gauxardeba, Tu biZina

wava, magram arc opozicias aklebs

lanZRvas, rac Zalian

guls mtkens. arc opozicias da

arc Cems yofil partias ar

moswonda, aseT rameebs Riad

rom vambobdi, yvelas unda, rom

aqo, adido da taSi daukra. Tu

raRac ar mogwons da amaze

Riad saubrob, maTTvis miuRebeli

xdebi. SeiZleba, mtradac

gamogacxadon. simarTlis mosmena

aravs moswons, arc qocebsa

da arc opozicias.

politikosebs, ratomRac,

hgoniaT, rom raRacebze an sul

gaCumdnen, anda Selamazebulad

ilaparakon. cdiloben, TavSekaveba

gamoiCinon, raTa vinmes ar

ewyinos. aseTi damokidebuleba

CemTvis miuRebelia. samwuxaroa,

rom mosaxleoba politikuri

monobis mentalitetidan

ver gamovida. amitom

veranairad vityvi, rom dRevandeli

sazogadoeba brZenia. yvelaze

ar vambob, magram mosaxleobis

sakmaod didi nawili

politikuri monobis qveSaa.

samwuxarod, Zalian bevri amomrCeveli

isev „qarTuli ocnebisTvis”

apirebs xmis micemas.

_ saidan iciT, rom mosaxleobis

didi nawili isev „qarT-

ul ocnebas” aZlvs xmas?

_ xalxTan maqvs urTierToba,

yoveldRiurad vusmen maT

da vici maTi ganwyobebi.

_ aba, opoziciis didi nawili

ratom ambobs, rom, faqto-

brivad, Cven gvaqvs arCevnebi

mogebulio?

_ ar vici, ra aZlevT amis

Tqmis safuZvels. ar vici, vis-

Tan aqvT urTierToba da verc

imas vxvdebi, Tu ras zeimoben

winaswar. arCevnebi jer ar

Catarebula da premieris posts

iyofen. es satirali rom ar

iyos, Zalian sasacilo iqnebo-

ès opozicia

xmebs ver

daicavs~

da. winasaarCevno kampania ki

ara, namdvili maskaradia gamarTuli.

imis magivrad, rom „qarTul

ocnebas” daupirispirdnen,

erTmaneTs daerivnen. es

garedan Zalian cudad Cans, rac

amomrCevlis Tvalsa da yurs

cudad xvdeba. amaT qiSpsa da

ubedurebas rom uyureben, ar-

Cevnebze wasvlisgan Tavs ikaveben.

an midian da yvelas xazaven.

es, saboloo jamSi, opozicisTvis

Zalian cud Sedegs moitans.

_ cud SedegSi ras gulisx-

mobT? 2020-is arCevnebs

„qarTuli ocneba” moigebs?

_ „qarTul ocnebas” Zalian

didi resursi aqvs saimisod,

rom am arCevnebSi maT darCeT

gamarjveba. amas borjomis magaliTze

geubnebiT. kidev erTxel

vambob, xalxTan maqvs kontaqti

da vici misi ganwyoba. mosaxleobaze

Zalian cudad moqmedebs

opoziciis SigniT arsebuli

ganxeTqileba. es opozicias

xmebs akargvinebs. amasoba-

Si „qarTuli ocneba” agrovebs

xmebs. opoziciis momxreebi maT

xmebs ar miscemen, magram xe-

`dasveneba ar gadamiwyvetia, magram imdenad

gamiWirda leiboristebidan wamosvlis Semdeg,

ver warmoidgenT. partiebSi gadaxtoma-

gadmoxtoma didad ar miyvars da arc

maxasiaTebs. romc yofiliyo es Cemi

damaxasiaTebeli Tviseba, partias ver vnaxavdi,

sadac Sevidodi. arc erTi opoziciuri partia

ar iwvevs CemSi simpaTias. romelime maTganSi

gawevrianeba ki ara, iseTi partiac ar aris,

rom arCevnebSi mxari davuWiro~

lisuflebas aqvs resursi, rom

sajaro seqtorSi dasaqmebuli

adamianebis sruli mobilizacia

moaxdinos.

_ opozicia ratom ver Se-

Zlebs amomrCevlis mobilize-

bas?

_ rogor unda SeZlos? _

erTmaneTs ebrZvian. erTi gaiZaxis,

_ daavale miSaso, meore, _

gugava movao, mesame, _ aleko

gismenTo. amas Tavi daanebeT,

erTmaneTs Wamen Tanamdebobebis

gulisTvis da ra amomrCevlis

mobilizebazea laparaki?

sazogadoebas kidev bevri rame

ar moswons. magaliTad is, rom

gubaz sanikiZe „qarTuli ocnebidan”

„nacionalebSi” gadabargda.

_ gubaz sanikiZis feri-

scvaleba saocaria. saSineli

sityvebiT lanZRavda saakaS-

vils da axla saakaSvilis

xalxs gulSi Caekra.

_ amis Sesaxeb ramdenjerme

vTqvi da opoziciur wreebSi

seriozuli kritika davimsaxure.

_ gubazi iqiT-aqeT darbis

da kritika Tqven daimsaxureT?

_ ase gamovida. arada, rogor

ar vTqva saTqmeli? _ wlebis

ganmavlobaSi mixeil saakaSvils

lanZRavda. mere moinania, aRiara,

damnaSave var, biZinas rom

vuWerdi mxarso. axla saakaSvilze

saubrobs. „nacionalebic”

aqeben. gaiZaxian, qarTuli

politikis metriao. gansaku-

TrebiT misi saubari moswonT.

_ saubriT gubazi marTla

lamazad saubrobs.

_ ki batono. kargad saubrobs

da Zalian ganaTlebuli

adamianicaa. mimaCnia, rom aseTi

ganswavluli pirovneba usamsaxurod

ar unda darCes, magram

ar SeiZleba, rom gamsvlel

siaSi Caweron. Tan am partiaze

gubazi iseTebs ambobda, rom ar

vici. me iseTi rameebi maqvs

mosmenili, saswaulia, pirdapir.

es gancxadebebi farTo sazogadoebisTvis

cnobili araa. am

Temaze opoziciaSic visaubre

da vTqvi, rom kargiT, gubazi

ganaTlebulia, moinania, biZina

ivaniSvilis gverdiT rom idga,

gamosworda, magram ratom

18 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


erTxel moipovos umravlesoba~

gamoricxaven, rom gubaz sanikiZes

kidev CaeZineba parlamentis

sxdomaze? vinaa amis garanti?

_ CaZinebas ra uWirs, ra ga-

rantia aqvs opozicias, rom

gubazi kidev sadme ar gadax-

teba kidev erTxel ar moin-

aniebs amjerad imas, rom „na-

cionalebs” daudga gverdiT?

_ arc amis garantia aris,

amitom iyo misi gamoCena miuRebeli.

arc kaxa oqriaSvilis

opoziciur banakSi gadabargebas

mivesalmebi. partiebs ramdenime

TviT adre sxvanairad

unda daewyoT moqmedeba. wina

planze mebrZoli da gausvreli

adamianebi unda gamoeyvanaT.

isini unda gaepiarebinaT da

amoeqoqaT. xalxi Zalian iolad

miiRebda axal saxeebs. Zveli da

gasvrili saxeebi yvelas yelSi

aqvs amosuli. samwuxarod, aqcenti

isev am politnexvze keTdeba.

_ opozicioneri kolegebi am

SefasebisTvis arakoreqtulo-

baSi dagdeben brals.

_ vambob imas, rac realobaa.

ukve wlebia, erTi da igive

politnexvi tivtivebs. xelisuflebebi

icvlebian, magram

keTildReoba mxolod am motivtiveebis

ojaxebisTvisaa,

xalxze aravin fiqrobs. amomrCeveli

ukve kargad afasebs am

viTarebas. danaxva ar undaT

politikosebis. yvela saSinlad

ezizRebaT. aseTi ganwyobebia

xalxSi da mere nu gaukvirdebaT,

Tu arCevnebze xmebs ver

aiReben. xmebi romc miiRon, misi

damcveli aravin aris.

_ xom gaaformes SeTanxmeba,

rom xmebs daicaven? ratom ge-

parebaT eWvi?

_ ra mniSvneloba aqvs, qa-

Raldze ras daweren? es saqmiT

unda daamtkicon. saqmiT es ver

daamtkices. ramis Tavi Tu

hqondaT, ivaniSvilisTvis srulad

proporciuli saarCevno

sistema unda waeglijaT. ramdenime

Tve idgnen quCaSi. es

mocemuli piroba ver daicves

da xmebs daicaven? xmebi rom

daicva, xalxi unda gamoiyvano

quCaSi. quCaSi xalxi ar gamova.

manamde igive xalxi arCevnebze

unda miiyvano, rom Semogxazos.

am xalxs kidev aRar unda

arCevnebze wasvla. asarCevi,

faqtobrivad, aravinaa.

_ gasagebia, rom opozicia

cudia, magram xalxi Tavisi

nebiT ar unda gamovides quCa-

Si? davijero, saerTod araf-

eri awuxebs? sxva yvelafers

rom Tavi davaneboT, lari gaiqca

da es mainc gaaprotest-

on.

_ aqac opoziciam unda iaqtiuros.

imisTvis, rom xelisufleba

Seicvalos, bevri xalxi

unda mivides arCevnebze. rogorc

wesi, xelisufleba maSin

agebs xolme arCevnebs, roca bevri

amomrCeveli midis. xalxs

uamravi ram awuxebs, magram gareT

mainc aravin gamodis. darwmunebuli

var, Segnebulad Seiqmna

msgavsi viTareba. xelisufleba

aseTi principiT moqmedebs:

xalxi gaWirvebaSi Caagde

da ibatone.

_ erTxelac xom SeiZleba,

xalxs es yvelaferi yelSi

amouvides. rodemde gauZlebs

mosaxleoba am mZime yofas?

_ geTanxmebiT, rom erTxelac

amouva xalxs yelSi yvelaferi,

magram am viTarebaSi

msgavss raRacas ar velodebi.

_ ratom ar elodebiT?

_ amis winapirbebi ar Cans.

opoziciis SigniT kinklaoba

seriozul Seferxebebs iwvevs

xalxSi. opozicia erTiani rom

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

`kaxa oqriaSvils davubrundebi, - misi miReba

rogor SeiZleboda? kaci mTeli cxra weli

`nacionalebSi~ iyo, 2012 wels `qarTul

ocnebaSi~ gadavida da axla isev aq dabrunda.

amboben, rom Tavis olqSi bevri amomrCeveli

hyavs da misi mosvla momgebiani iqnebao~

yofiliyo, xalxic ufro iolad

miiRebda gadawyvetilebas. axla

opozicia erTmaneTTan brZoliT

aris dakavebuli.

_ gadamwyvet momentSi opozicias

erTad dadgoma Seu-

Zlia. 2003 welsac ase moxda.

_ opozicia SeiZleba gaerTiandes,

magram socialuri foni

xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad gadamwyveti

momenti arasdros

yofila. mainc politikurad angaJirebuli

xalxi awyobs xolme

revoluciebs. Cveni mosaxleoba

ar gamodis TavisiT. mas winamZRoli

da kargi lideri sWirdeba.

iseTi lideri, romelsac

xalxi gahyveba. aseTi lideri

kidev didxans ar gamoCndeba.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom ar

gamoCndeba?

_ imitom, rom arc politikosebs

ainteresebs xalxis problemebi.

sakuTar Tavze fiqroben

mxolod. brZola rom sdomodaT,

bolomde ibrZolebdnen

proporciuli sistemisTvis. axla

ki ra xdeba? ivaniSvilma ZvaliviT

gadmougdo principi

120/30-ze da am adgilebisTvis

Wamen da glejen erTmaneTs. opozicia

ramdenime maJoritarul

olqSi aucileblad moipovebs

`sazogadoebas kidev bevri rame ar moswons.

magaliTad is, rom gubaz sanikiZe `qarTuli

ocnebidan~ `nacionalebSi~ gadabargda~

gamarjvebas, magram meeWveba,

rom es maJoritarebi parlamentSi

umravlesobis mosapoveblad

sakmarisi iyos.

_ Tqveni prognoziT, opozicia

ramden maJoritarul olq-

Si moipovebs gamarjvebas?

_ 30 olqidan, daaxloebiT, 5

olqSi SeZlebs opoziciis mier

wardgenili kandidati gamarjvebas.

_ mxolod 5 olqSi?

_ xuTic Tu moiges, kargi

iqneba.

_ pirvel turze saubrobT

Tu meoreze?

_ pirvel turze. meore

turamde Tu mivida saqme, CaTvaleT,

rom opozicias yvela

olqi wagebuli eqneba.

_ ratom eqneba opozicias

meore turSi yvela olqi wage-

buli?

_ imitom, rom meore turi

aRar Catardeba. arCevnebi iqneba

pirdapiri specoperacia, sadac

„ocneba” yvelaferze wava.

_ gaaCnia, proprciul arCe-

vnebze ra Sedegebi eqneba an

opozicias an „qarTul oc-

nebas”.

_ amas gadamwtveti mniSvneloba

eqneba. proporciulSi „qocebma”

40% Tu dades, es opoziciisTvis

namdvili katastrofa

iqneba. es ivaniSvilis partias

gamarjvebis mopovebaSi

daexmareba.

_ Tqveni saubridan aSkarad

Cans, rom didad imedianad ar

xarT ganwyobili.

_ uimedod ar var, magram

winaswar rogor vizeimo gamarjveba,

roca vxedav, rom Zalian

rTulad aris saqme? opozicia

ki winaswar zeimobs da arCevnebamde

erTi TviT adre acxadebs,

rom gamarjvebulebi arian.

_ aba, ra qnan, gamovidnen da

iZaxon, vagebTo?

_ ara, arc es unda iZaxon.

mosaxleobaze raRac gavlenas

iqoniebs imis yvirili, rom xelisufleba

damarcxdeba, magram

didi molodinebi mainc ar

unda Seuqmna xalxs. jobia, uaresisTvis

moamzado, vidre ra-

Rac molodini Seuqmna da mere

imedebi gaucruvdes.

Zalian bevr Secdomas uSvebs

opozicia: igive kaxa oqriaSvils

davubrundebi, _ misi miReba

rogor SeiZleboda? kaci

mTeli cxra weli „nacionaleb-

Si” iyo, 2012 wels „qarTul ocnebaSi”

gadavida da axal isev aq

dabrunda. amboben, rom Tavis

olqSi bevri amomrCeveli hyavs

da misi mosvla momgebiani iqnebao.

raRac kuTxiT SeiZleba

momgebiani iyos misi faqtori,

magram, saboloo jamSi, mainc

ar moitans karg Sedegs.

igive SemiZlia giTxraT CoCelze.

isini xom uprincipo, uideo

vaWrebi arian. maT wminda

araferi gaaCniaT. amas xalxic

xom xedavs? da es faSisti milionerebi

mxolod Tavisi interesebisTvis

ibrZvian. ra garantiac

ar unda dagidon, rom amden

da amden Tanxas daxarjaven,

SeiZleba, ufro bevri waago.

maT SeiZleba, maJoritaroba

moigon, magram maTma opozicia-

Si gamoCenam SesaZloa, mTeli

saqarTvelos masStabiT 5 mandati

dagakargvinos. xalxi

dasanaxad ver itans am medrove

milionerebs. arc gubazis iqiTaqeT

siaruli moswonT.

_ ise, gubazs kargi alRo

aqvs _ 2003 wels tradicionalistebTan

erTad burjanaZe-

Jvanias gunds Seekra, 2012

wels _ ivaniSvils da axlac

mesame cdaze midis.

_ sul iqiT-aqeT dadis. Sei-

Zleba, Zalian kargi alRo aqvs,

magram es CemTvis miuRebelia.

mas Semdeg, rac leiboristebisgan

wamovedi, ramdenime partiidan

mqonda SeTavazeba, magram

aravisTan wavedi. opoziciurad

var ganwyobili, maram iqiT-aqeT

wowiali ar minda.

_ arCevnebze Tu waxvalT?

_ aucileblad.

_ opozicias miscemT xmas?

_ ra Tqma unda. mTel Cems

resurss movaxmar „qarTul ocnebasTan”

brZolas. Cvens olq-

Si gamarjvebis Sansi aqvs vaJa

CitaSvils da mas davuWer mxars.

_ „nacionalebis” kandi-

dats?

_ mere ra? mas aqvs gamarjvebis

Sansi. „nacionalebis” politikaSi

bevri rame ar momwons,

magram vaJa Rirseuli kandidatia.

_ partiuladac maT miscemT

xmas?

_ partiulad ar vici, jer

gadawyvetileba miRebuli ar

maqvs. didi albaTobiT, yvela

partias gadavxazav. CitaSvils

davuWer mxars da opoziciasac

gverdiT davudgebi. amas imitom

gavakeTeb, rom „qocebma” unda

waagon. iciT, ratom unda

waagon qocebma? _ iq rac ar

unda kargi adamiani iyos, is

kaitipobas ver SeZlebs.

_ kargi adamiani Tu aris, kai

tipobas ratom ver SeZlebs?

_ „qocebSi” es gamoricxulia.

rac ar unda kargi adamiani

iyo, parlamentSi „ocnebidan”

Tu Sexvedi, biZina ivaniSvilis

Cveulebrivi mona gaxdebi.

monebi kargi tipebi ver iqnebian,

radgan monebs aravin arafers

ekiTxeba. gadawyvetilebis

miRebaze laparakic xom zedmetia.

19

ras ver iyofen yofili Tan-

amebrZolebi? ra gegma CaeSala

biZina ivaniSvilsa da giga bok-

erias? ras apirebs saakaSvili?

ratom arafers ambobs xelisu-

fleba vano merabiSvilze da

vis eSinia misi alaparakebis?

ratom ifeTqa koronam aWara-

Si? _ amis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s

„nacionaluri moZraobis” wev-

ri, jelal qiqava esaubreba:

_ batono jelal, „naciona-

lur moZraobasa” da „evropul

saqarTvelos” Soris seriozu-

li dapirispireba daiwyo.

arCevnebis win es ramdenad

normaluria? imis nacvlad,

rom opoziciuri partiebi xelisuflebas

upirispirdebo-

deT, erTmaneTs ebrZviT?

_ es dapirispireba axla ar

dawyebula es didi xania, rac

midis. amaTi gzebi gaiyo 2016

wlis saparlamento arCevnebis

Semdeg. im xalxma, „evropul

saqarTvelos” rom uwodebs

Tavs, ivaniSvils saparlamento

arCevnebi „gauprava” da mere

„nacionalebidan” wamovida.

iqidan mas Semdeg wamovidnen,

rac partiaSi gadatrialeba ver

moawyves. „nacionalebs” es ambebi

kargad axsovT. gasaocaria,

Tu ratom ukvirs xalxs is dapirispireba,

rasac axla maT

Soris vxedavT. es normaluri

procesia.

_ aqamde es, ase Tu ise, nor-

malur procesad Canda, magram

arCevnebis win ramdenad adek-

vaturia, Tan maSin, roca

opozicia erTianobis aucileblobaze

saubrobs? amaze „na-

cionalebsac”

araerTxel

gaukeTebiaT gancxadeba.

_ gasagebia, rom opoziciis

erTianoba aucilebelia, magram

amis gamo yvelaferze Tvalebs

xom ar davxuWavT? xalxma simarTle

xom unda gaigos? simarTlis

Tqma, Cemi azriT, yvelaze

mniSvnelovania.

_ ra simarTleze saubrobT?

_ imaze, rom „evropuli saqarTvelo”

Seqmna biZina ivaniSvilma.

biZina ivaniSvilis dakve-

TiT isini partiaSi gadatrialebis

mowyobas apirebdnen,

magram ar gamouvidaT. Catarda

yriloba da erTma xmam gadawona

is, rom maT partia ver wai-

Res. bokerias gundma verc ofisebi

wagvarTva. bokeria da misi

frTa ivaniSvils dahpirdnen,

rom mixeil saakaSvils gawevdnen,

magram ver gawies.

_ saidan unda gaewiaT miSa?

_ partiidan.

20


ìvaniSvils bokeriasTvis unda

arCevnebis win, rogorc wesi,

Sorena marsagiSvili

opoziciasa da xelisuflebas

599 92 16 22

Soris situacia mwvavdeba xolme.

CvenSi am mxrivac gansakuTrebu-

li viTarebaa. opoziciis erT nawils saerTod daaviwyda xelisuflebis

arseboba da erTmaneTis WamiT dakavda. am mimarTulebiT

„nacionalebma” da „evropulma saqarTvelom” gam-

oiCines Tavi. amaTi Semxedvare, kaci ver ifiqrebs, rom odes-

Rac isini erT gunds warmoadgendnen. arada, marTla ase iyo.

wlebis manZilze erTad iyvnen da erTmaneTze bevri rame ician.

wamosaZaxebelic Zalian bevri aqvT. „nacionalebi” fiqroben,

rom „evropuli saqarTvelo” biZina ivaniSvils Seekra.

_ miSa partiidan xom isedac

gaweuli iyo. is im dros ukrainaSi

saqmianobda da arc sa-

qarTvelosTvis ecala da arc

_ partiisTvis.

_ mere ra, rom ukrainaSi

moRvaweobda? is aqtiurad iyo

CarTuli partiis saqmianobaSi.

qarTul politikaSi yvelaze

seriozuli moTamaSe gaxldaT

da axlac asea. es faqti ivaniSvils

aRizianebda da axlac aRizianebs.

amitom SeuTanxmda bokerias

frTas, rom miSas gawevdnen.

erTaderTi kaci, visic bi-

Zinas eSinia, es aris saakaSvili.

_ ratom unda eSinodes

ivaniSvils saakaSvilis?

_ imitom, rom mxolod miSas

SeuZlia am oligarqis waqceva.

sxva danarCeni biZinas ar ainteresebs.

is bokerias dahpirda,

rom Tu miSas gverdze gawevda,

4 wlis Semdeg xelisuflebas

mas gadaabarebda.

_ rodis dahpirda bokerias

ivaniSvili amas?

_ 2016 wels.

_ Tu marTlac aseTi piroba

daido, ivaniSvils wels uwevs

bokeriasTvis xelisuflebis

gadabareba.

_ gadabareba aRar moxdeba.

miSa gevrdze rom gaewiaT, gadaabarebda,

magram miSas CamoSorebis

operacia ar gamovida. „nacionalebma”

da saakaSvilma daamtkices,

rom isini yvelaze mZlavr

Zalas warmoadgenen saqarTveloSi.

_ partiis simZlavre raSi

gamoixateba?

_ bevr rameSi. 8 welia, mTavari

opoziciuri partiaa, yvela

mas ebrZvis, magram milionamde

kaci hyavs mxardamWeri. es

patara saqme ar aris da amiT

bevri ramea naTqvami. „evropuli

saqarTvelos” Semotevebi

verafers daaklebs Cvens politikur

Zalas.

_ ise, raRa arCevnebis win

mogindaT „nacionalebsa” da

„evropul

saqarTvelos”

saqmeebis garCeva?

_ axla dadga dRis wesrigSi

es sakiTxi. es dapirispireba

„evropulma saqarTvelom” daiwyo.

Cven dapirispirebis aranairi

survili ar gvqonia. imaT

saamisod mizezi hqondaT.

_ ra mizezi?

_ mixvdnen, rom arCevnebi

waages da axla cdiloben, Cven

gvesrolon talaxi. aSkarad zomaze

metad ganerviulebulebi

arian. roca adamiani nervebmoSlilia,

bevr Secdomas uSvebs.

Scdomas Secdomaze uSveben „evropuli

saqarTvelos” warmomadgenlebic.

_ „nacionalebic” ganervi-

ulebulebi CanxarT. Tqveni

partiis

warmomadgenlebic

yvelas eCxubebian.

_ „nacionalebi” Zalian kargad

iqcevian. Cven umizezod

aravis vupirispirdebiT, arc

aravis veCxubebiT, arc opoziciaze

gviTqvams cudi rame.

_ aba, „girCsa” da giorgi

vaSaZis partias Tavs rom es-

xmiT?

_ Tavs sad davesxiT? msgavsi

rame ar momxdara. miSa saakaSvilma

erTi Tqva vaSaZeze da amiT

damTavrda yvelaferi. Tqva,

rom roca me ukranaSi mklavdnen

da damdevdnen, giorgi vaSaZe

poroSenkosTan wavida samuSaodo.

me ar mikvirs, rom miSa

vaSaZes aRar endoba. adamiani

aseT rames rom gaakeTebs, mas

veRar endobi.

_ Tu ar endoboda, maSin

rogor Caabares saprezidento

arCevnebis dros grigol vaS-

aZis saarCevno Stabi? grigol

vaSaZe xom „nacionalebis”

wardgenili kandidati iyo. „nacionaluri”

moZraoba am gadawyvetilebas

saakaSvilis gar-

eSe ar miiRebda.

_ ar vici da ver getyviT, Tu

ratom Caabares giorgi vaSaZes

saarCevno Stabi. politikis titanebTan

ar maqvs kavSiri. Sesabamisad,

raRac-raRacebi ar vici,

politikaSi bevri ucnauroba

xdeba. dRes SeiZleba, gapation

raRac, magram mere saWiro

gaxdes da warsuls wamogaZaxeben.

_ gindaT TqvaT, rom poli-

èvropuli saqarTvelo~ Seqmna biZina

ivaniSvilma. biZina ivaniSvilis dakveTiT isini

partiaSi gadatrialebis mowyobas apirebdnen,

magram ar gamouvidaT. Catarda yriloba da

erTma xmam gadawona is, rom maT partia ver

waiRes. bokerias gundma verc ofisebi

wagvarTva. bokeria da misi frTa ivaniSvils

dahpirdnen, rom mixeil saakaSvils gawevdnen,

magram ver gawies~

jelal qiqava:

`vano

merabiSvils

bevri ramis

Tqma

SeuZlia~

tikaSi yvelaferi mosula, xan

SeWamen erTmaneTs, xanac

miuteveben?

_ me rom Sevxede, davrwmundi,

rom politikaSi marTla

yvelaferi mosula. politika

aseTia da Cven ver SevcvliT.

_ TqviT, politikis ti-

tanebTan kavSiri ar maqvso,

magram xalxTan xom gaqvT kav-

Siri?

_ xalxTan rogor ar maqvs

kavSiri. gadasarevad vici maTi

azri, maTi problemebi, ganwyobebi.

uamrav adamians Sevxvedrivar,

uamravisTvis momismenia.

_ es xalxi ras geubnebaT

opoziciaSi arsebul dapiri-

spirebaze?

mosaxleoba

opoziciisgan xom erTianobas

iTxovda.

_ me im adamianebTan maqvs

urTierTobebi, romlebic „nacionalur

moZraobas” uWeren

mxars. isini fiqroben, rom „evropuli

saqarTvelo” arasworad

moiqca. arasworad moiqcnen

maSinac, roca partia datoves

da arasworad iqcevian axlac,

roca cdiloben, rom miSas

opoziciaSi iyvnen. amas aranairi

gamarTleba ar aqvs. amas

arc xalxi amarTlebs.

_ Tqven arasdros yofilxarT

miSas sawinaaRmdego mx-

ares? sul opoziciaSi iyaviT

da amitom gekiTxebiT.

_ 2011 wlamde „nacionalebs”

opoziciaSi ar Cavdgomivar.

2011 wels „nacionalebma” Zalas

gadaametes da mec opoziciaSi

Cavudeqi. dResac ase mimaCnia,

rom 2012 wels isini unda wasuliyvnen.

_ Tqvenc ivaniSvilis mxar-

damWeri iyaviT?

_ ase gamovida. megona, rom

ivaniSvili miliarderi kacia da

am qveyanas raRacas gaukeTebda.

namdvilad ver vifiqrebdi, Tu

is saqarTvelos aseT mZime dRe-

Si Caagdebda.

_ arCevnebamde erTi Tve

rCeba. mosaxleobis didi naw-

20 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


gadaebarebina xelisufleba~

ili gadauwyvetelia, ar icis,

vis dauWiros mxari. SeZlebs

opozicia maTi mxardaWeris

mopovebas?

_ wesiT, ar uda gauWirdes

opozicias maTi xmebis mopoveba.

mosaxleobis 95% „qarTuli

ocnebis” saqmianobiT ukmayofiloa.

bolo dros cota

ufro naklebi kontaqti maqvs

xalxTan, magram misi ganwyobebi

vici. koronis gamo ukve mesamed

var TviTizolaciaSi. axla

mTeli aWara Caketes da virusis

afeTqebas sazRvao sezons

abraleben. sinamdvileSi, yvelaferi

dendrologiuri parkis

bralia. aWaraSi turisti

manamdec Camodioda, magram korona

ar afeTqebula. viTareba

ivaniSvilis dendroparkis gaxsnis

Semdeg Seicvala.

_ amas aravin adasturebs.

_ amas xelisufleba rogor

daadasturebs. ivaniSvils vin

daupirispirdeba? amaze arc

bokerias „evropelebi” ityvian

rames. bokerias gundi mixvda,

rom TamaSic waages da _ arCevnebic,

amitom axla mavneblobaze

gadavidnen. cdiloben, rom

maqsimalurad daazianon „nacionaluri

moZraoba”.

_ Tu aseTi mavneblebi ari-

an, „nacionalebma” „evropul

saqarTvelosTan”

rogor

gaaformes SeTanxmeba, rom isi-

ni amomrCevlis xmebs daicaven?

am SeTanxmebas sxva opozici-

uri partiebic uerTdebian.

_ sxva partiebis imedi namdvilad

maqvs, rom xmebs daicaven

da quCaSi gamovlen, magram „evropul

saqarTveloze” ra giTxraT.

maxsovs, 2016 wels rogor

„gauprava” am gundma biZina ivaniSvils

saparlamento arCevnebis

Sedegebi. miSa didi politikosia

da bokerias gunds es

misTvis ar unda gaekeTebina.

_ didi politikosi Tu aris,

ratom Casva es xalxi siaSi?

saakaSvilma ar Cawera isini

saarCevno siaSi?

_ miSa iyo kievSi da aq arsebul

viTarebas bolomde ver

akontrolebda. etyoba, man bokerias

daxmarebiT Seadgina es

sia. maTi aseTi saqcieli ar yofila

moulodneloba, magram

Tengiz gunavasgan amas namdvilad

ar velodi. ar megona, Tu

ès dapirispireba axla ar dawyebula es didi

xania, rac midis. amaTi gzebi gaiyo 2016 wlis

saparlamento arCevnebis Semdeg. im xalxma,

èvropul saqarTvelos~ rom uwodebs Tavs,

ivaniSvils saparlamento arCevnebi `gauprava~

da mere `nacionalebidan~ wamovida. iqidan mas

Semdeg wamovidnen, rac partiaSi

gadatrialeba ver moawyves. `nacionalebs~ es

ambebi kargad axsovT. gasaocaria, Tu ratom

ukvirs xalxs is dapirispireba, rasac axla

maT Soris vxedavT. es normaluri procesia~

isic ase moiqceoda.

_ gunavasgan ase moqcevas

ratom ar elodiT?

_ miSasTan Zalian kargad

iyo.

_ egre bokeria da miSac kar-

gad iyvnen erTmaneTTan.

_ vin ambobs, rom kargad ar

iyvnen? bokeria aris Wkuis kolofi

da sainteresoa, ratom

ver gaTvala, roca biZina ivani-

Svils gaurigda? es TamaSi man

Zalian mwared waago miSasTan.

winaswar yvelafris gaTvla Wkuis

kolofebsac uWirT xolme.

_ magaliTad, ra ver

gaTvales?

_ is, rom bolomde ver gaqa-

Cavdnen. amiT Tavad dazaraldnen,

Torem miSasa da „nacionalur

moZraobas” isev uamravi mxardamWeri

hyavs. amas arCevnebzec

vnaxavT. imasac vnaxavT, Tu

vin daakompleqtebs mTavrobas.

_ fiqrobT, rom es „nacio-

naluri moZraoba” iqneba?

_ damoukideblad verc erTi

partia ver daakompleqtebs

mTavrobas. da vinc ar unda movides

xelisuflebaSi, Zalian

codo iqneba. winaswar TanavugrZnob

am adamianebs.

_ codo ratom iqneba?

_ imitom, rom „qarTulma

`Tavs sad davesxiT? msgavsi rame ar momxdara.

miSa saakaSvilma erTi Tqva vaSaZeze da amiT

damTavrda yvelaferi. Tqva, rom roca me

ukrainaSi mklavdnen da damdevdnen, giorgi

vaSaZe poroSenkosTan wavida samuSaodo. me ar

mikvirs, rom miSa vaSaZes aRar endoba. adamiani

aseT rames rom gaakeTebs, mas veRar endobi~

ocnebam” mTeli qveyana aaoxra.

yvela sfero fexzea dasayenebeli.

amas koaliciuri mTavroba

gaakeTebs. gauWirdebaT, magram

mainc gaakeTeben. gansakuTrebiT

axalgazrdebis imedi maqvs.

vcdilobT, rac SeiZleba meti

axalgazrda movides xelisuflebaSi.

Cveni gundi axalgazrdebiTaa

savse.

_ „nacionalebis” maJoritarebs

Tu gadavxedavT, axal-

gazrdebi ariano, ver vityviT.

_ SemarTebiT axalgazrdebi

arian da Zalian bevr karg saqmes

gaakeTeben. saqmis gakeTeba

rom SeuZliaT, es erTxel ukve

daamtkices.

_ am partiis erT-erTi mTavari

figura iyo vano merabiS-

vili. axla is gverdiT gawies

da viRacebi mas kbenen kidevac.

ra xdeba?

_ wlebis winaT vano merabiSvili

iyo am partiis Tavmjdomare.

man im dros Tqva partiis

Tavmjdomareobaze uari, roca

partiis bedi wydeboda da amas

ver patioben. es Cemi azria. Sei-

Zleba, sxva mizezia.

_ am yvelafris Semdeg mer-

abiSvili Tu darCeba partiaSi?

_ vano yovelTvis iqneba am

partiaSi. mas zurgs vin aqcevs?

_ imdeni rame aqvs qveynisTvis

gakeTebuli.

_ vano biZinasac moswons.

sul ambobda, kargi menejeri-

ao.

_ magi aris arakaci da magas

arc erTi sityva ar daejereba.

kargi menejerobis gamo gamoketa

vano cixeSi? mas xalxi endoba.

biZinasgan gansxvavebiT

vanos sityva _ sityvaa.

_ ise, „qocebi” merabiSvilze

saeWvod dadumdnen da ra xde-

ba, ratom aRar lanZRaven mas?

_ ar lanZRaven imitom, rom

maTTvis ase ajobebs. vano Ss

ministri iyo da Zalian bevri

informaciis matarebelia.

_ amis gamo arian Cumad?

_ amis gamoc. vanos bevri

ramis Tqma SeuZlia maTze.

_ „qocebsac” bevri ramis

Tqma SeuZliaT vanoze.

_ mere Tqvan, ratom ar amboben?

xelisuflebaSi egeni arian.

rame aqvT saTqmeli da amxela

monstri Cumadaa? ar mjera.

_ monstrio, TqviT xelisu-

flebaze da arCevnebze mag

monstrTan brZolas rogor

apirebT?

_ Zalian mSvidad. Cveni sazogadoeba

ukve gaizarda politikurad.

arCevnebic ise velurad

aRar tardeba. imas yvela vaRiarebT,

rom yuTebSi tomrebiT

aRar yrian biuletenebs. axla

iqamde unda mivideT, rom yvelam

viswavloT arCevnebze misvla.

_ arCevnebze wasvla didad

ar gviyvars.

_ ar gviyvars, magram aucilebelia.

marto feisbuqze azris

dafiqsirebas ra azri aqvs?

ramis Secvla Tu marTla surs

adamians, is arCevnebze unda

mivides. imedi maqvs, arCevnebze

siarulsac viswavliT. 2020

wels sapalamento arCevnebze

bevri xalxi wava.

_ korona amaSi xels ar Seg-

viSlis?

_ ra vici, ra giTxraT? es

oxeri korona saxlSi maqvs.

_ ras niSnavs, saxlSi gaqvT?

_ Cems Svils daemarTa da

mTeli ojaxi TviTizolaciaSi

varT.

_ axla rogor aris Tqveni

Svili?

_ kargad aris. axalgazrdaa

da iolad gadaitana. axla saavadmyofoSia

da male gamoweren,

aravin Tqvas, rom korona ar

arsebobs. arsebobs, magram

raRacebi mainc saeWvoa.

_ ra aris saeWvo?

_ saeWvoa, rom yvelas koronas

uweren, maT Soris, imaTac,

vinc gaciebulia da axvelebs.

SeiZleba, amas sifrTxilis gamo

sCadian, magram mgonia, rom

fuls akeTeben. Cemi Svili Tavidan

sastumroSi, sakarantino

sivrceSi hyavdaT. mere gadaiyvanes

saavadmyofoSi. saavadmyofSi

xom wevs Cemi Svili, magram

im nomris fuls saxelmwifo

kidev ixdis, sadac Cemi Svili

iyo. sxva inficirebulebis Sem-

TxvevaSic asea. baTumis sastumroebi

da saavadmyofoebi gadavsebulia.

koronainficirebulebi

Tbilissa da quTaisSi gadahyavT.

imedi maqvs, rom es yvelaferi

male gadaivlis da

saparlamento arCevnebisTvis

situacia dalagdeba. arCevnebi

aucileblad unda Catardes da

es xelisufleba Seicvalos.

xelisufleba Tu ar Seicvala,

aq ubedureba daiwyeba. kriminali

kidev ufro moimatebs.

samuSaoebi araa, yvelaferi Zvirdeba.

mSieri xalxi iZulebuli

gaxdeba, moiparos. gazrdili

kriminalis alagmva da gaCerebuli

saqarTvelos amuSaveba

Cvens xelT aris. amisTvis arCevnebze

unda mivideT da „qarTul

ocnebas” uari vuTxraT.

darwmunebuli var, asec iqneba.

„evropuli saqarTvelo” ras

izams, ar vici. imedi maqvs, gadamwyvet

wams isini isev ivaniSvilis

gverdiT ar dadgebian.

erTxel ukve waitexes kiseri.

maTi bedi naklebad maRelvebs.

me is mawuxebs, rom mavneblobaze

arian gadasulebi da mTavar

opoziciur Zalas azianeben. ase

Tu gaagrZeles, Cvenganac miiReben

pasuxs. maTze bevri rame

viciT. aravis daviwyebia, Tu

rogori moZaladeebi iyvnen da

rogor iSoves amdeni fuli.

_ isini maSin Zaladobdnen

da mainc iSoves fuli, roca

„nacionalur

moZraobaSi”

iyvnen. egeni iyvnen tartaro-

zebi da sxvebi _ angelozebi?

_ Secdomebi yvelam dauSva,

magram „evropulma saqarTvelom”

Tavi moiWra. ukve mixvdnen,

rom am arCevnebze maTi saqme

damTavrdeba da axla mavnebloben.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

21

vin Rebulobs gadawyvetile-

bebs „nacionalur moZraobaSi”?

ratom unda Sewyvitos opozi-

ciam erTmaneTisTvis talaxis

srola? ra standarti unda

damkvidrdes qarTul politika-

Si? ratom ar aqvs alternativa

opoziciis erTad dadgomas? ar-

sebobs Tu ara giorgi vaSaZeze

kompromatebi? aris Tu ara is

biZina ivaniSvilis proeqti? vin

unda mixedos sakuTar naTesav-

ebs? ratom ar swyaloben meorad

politikosebs „strategia aR-

maSenebelSi”? _ amis Sesaxeb

„qronika+”-s paata manjgalaZe

esaubreba:

_ paata, mas Semdeg, rac giorgi

vaSaZem ganacxada, rom pre-

mier-ministrobis ambicia aqvs,

„strategia aRmaSenebeli” opozic

iciis iis mxridan Tavdasxmebis

obieqti gaxda. yvelaze xirad

„nacionalebi” da „evropuli

saqarTvelo” gesxmodaT Tavs.

gasul kviras maT ukve erTmaneTs

gamoucxades omi. es dapirispireba

arCevnebSi xels ar Seg-

iSliT opozicias? ki eZaxiT

mmarTvel partias damsxvreul

ocnebas, magram jer maT damsx-

vrevaze saubari naadrevia.

_ „strategia aRmaSenebels”

gvaqvs mkafiod Camoyalibebuli

aRmSeneblobis strategia. Cven

avirCieT gza, romelsac araviTar

SemTxvevaSi ar gadavuxvevT.

aqedan gamomdinare, ar gvainteresebs,

Tu ras ityvis Cvenze ama

Tu im partiis lideri an wevri.

Cven danarCeni partiebisgan is

gangvasxvavebs, rom ar vmonawileobT

kinklaobaSi, ar visvriT talaxs.

talaxs arc im SemTxvevaSi

visvriT, Tu Cven gvesvrian. amaSi

imitom ar vmonawileobT, rom

viciT, Tu rogor daiRala xalxi

am yvelafriT.

xalxs aRar unda, gamudmebiT

kinklaobas usminos. mas ainteresebs

saubari saqmeze. Cven mxolod

saqmian saubars vapirebT. amomrCevels

unda vuTxraT, Tu ris

gakeTebas vgegmavT.

kargad gvaqvs gacnobierebuli,

rom axla saWiroa opoziciis er-

Tianoba. aseTi kinklaobiT erToba

ar iqneba. biZina ivaniSvili

gamova da gvetyvis, es aris Tqveni

erTianoba da saxeo. rom

opozicia erTmaneTs ZalauflebisTvis

ebrZvis.

erTmaneTisTvis talaxis srolis

kampania saqarTveloSi aTwleulebia,

damkvidrda. Cven ar mogvwons

es. uars vambobT oponentebisTvis

talaxis srolaze. arc

isaa Cveni mizani, rom politikuri

mowinaaRmdege CavZiroT. Cven

orientirebuli varT saqmeze.

Cvens Zalas SemTxveviT ki ar

davarqviT „strategia aRmaSenebeli”.

aRmSenebloba Cveni cxovrebisa

da politikis filosofiaa.

migvaCnia, rom is energia, rasac

wlebis manZilze erTmaneTTan

22


ùars vambobT oponentebisTvis talaxis srolaze~

„strategia aRmaSenebelma” da

Sorena marsagiSvili

misma liderma giorgi vaSaZem

599 92 16 22

araerTxel ganacxades, rom

opoziciasTan dapirispirebaSi ar

Sevidodnen. opozicionerebma isini bevrjer SeaCvenes, magram

amaze pasuxi ar gauciaT. es Jesti opoziciam didad ar daafasa

da maTi SeCvenebis politika dRemde grZeldeba.

dapirispirebaze vxarjavT, unda

mivmarToT qveynis aRmSeneblobisken.

amis saTqmelad varT

politikaSi mosuli. Zalian gvinda,

rom qarTul politikaSi es

standarti davamkvidroT.

mTel qveyanas am ideiT movivliT.

darwmunebuli var, saboloo

jamSi es idea gaimarjvebs.

_ Zalian kargia, rom oponen-

tebis CaZirva ar gindaT da maT

Tu talaxi gesroles, pasuxis

gacemas ar apirebT. magram,

rogorc amboben, dumili Tanx-

mobis niSaniao da Tqveni dumili

vinmem xom SeiZleba ise aRiqvas,

rom oponentebs eTanxmebiT ima-

Si, rasac Tqvenze amboben?

_ es is dumili araa, romelic

Tanxmobas niSnavs. arc imitom

varT Cumad, rom pasuxebi ar gvaqvs.

yvelasTvis kargad SegviZlia

pasuxis gacema. ar vpasuxobT imitom,

rom ar gvinda, isedac negatiuri

foni kidev ufro davZaboT.

aravis egonos, Cven mimarT

wamosul pretenziebs ugulebelvyofT.

roca saWiro iqneba,

yvelas gavcemT pasuxs da vetyviT

Cvens saTqmels. magram Cveni

saarCevno strategia araa opoziciur

xmebze nadiroba. opoziciis

dazaraleba ar gvinda.

„starategia aRamaSeneblis”

mTavari samizne aris biZina ivaniSvili

da misi „qarTuli ocneba”.

Cven imaTTan varT dapirispirebuli,

vinc qveyanaSi krizisi Seqmna

da vinc SimSilamde miiyvana xalxi.

opoziciis opozicioneroba

miuRebelia. es Cveni amocana arasdros

iqneba. Cveni mTavari

amocanaa, rac SeiZleba male CamovaSoroT

biZina ivaniSvili xelisuflebas.

rac ufro adre gaiazreben

amas opoziciuri partiebis

liderebi, miT male gavuSvebT

am xelisuflebas.

_ ratom ver iazrebs amas

opozicia? erTmaneTis kritika-

Si garTulebs sul daaviwydaT

„qarTuli ocnebisa” da biZina

ivaniSvilis arseboba?

_ gavixsenoT saqarTvelos

pirveli prezidenti zviad gamsaxurdia

_ is zneobrivi da maRali

idealebis matarebeli politikosi

iyo. am adamianTanac ki ver

gamonaxa saerTo ena imdroindelma

opoziciam. iaraRi esroles im

adamians, romelic Tavis momxreebs

mouwodebda, SeiaraRebuli

mowinaaRmdegisTvis yvavilebi

esrolaT. dRes qarTul politikaSi

imaTi Camomavlebi arian,

vinc gamsaxurdias zarbaznebi esrola

da ratom gvikvirs, rom

opoziciis warmomadgenlebi erTmaneTTan

saerTo enis gamonaxvas

ver axerxeben?

_ dRevandel qarTul politikaSi

mxolod imaTi STamomav-

lebi ar arian. isinic arian, vinc

uSualod isroda iaraRs.

_ aseTebic arian. amis naTeli

magaliTia goga xaindrava. kidev

paata manjgalaZe:

`giorgi vaSaZeze

kompromatebi

rom hqonodaT,

aqamde cxrajer

aafrialebdnen~

bevria, magram axla saxelebsa da

gvarebs ar CamovTvli. es gautanlobis

metastazi modebulia

mTel qarTul politikas. swored

am metastazebis Casarecxad modis

politikaSi „strategia aRmaSenebeli”.

im adamianebis adgili

qarTul politikaSi ar unda

iyos, vinc erTmaneTis CaZirvisa

da erTmaneTisTvis talaxis srolis

standarts amkvidrebs.

es xalxi erTxel mainc ar

dafiqrebula, vis interesSia, rom

saqarTveloSi mudmivad daZabuloba

iyos? ar ufiqriaT imaze,

Tu vis ar awyobs, rom qarTvelebma

konsensuss mivaRwioT?

mtrisa da moyvris garCeva rom ar

viciT, es vis awyobs? vis awyobs

es yovelive da Cvens mters. Cven

ar gvinda, rom Cveni mtris wisqvilze

davasxaT wyali. amitomac

vemijnebiT erTmaneTisTvis talaxis

srolas.

_ Tqven TqviT, Cveni mizani

opoziciisTvis xmebis warTmeva

ar aris, gvinda, rom ivaniSvili

davamarcxoTo. zogierTi opozi-

cioneri Riad acxadebs, zogic

miniSnebiT ambobs, rom Tqveni

partiis lideri giorgi vaSaZe

aris biZina ivaniSvilis proeqti.

amis Sesaxeb ras gvetyviT?

_ amboben, magram amas damtkiceba

xom unda? riT amtkiceben,

rom es asea? aranairi argumentic

ki ar warmoudgeniaT imis dasamtkiceblad,

rom giorgi vaSaZe

„qarTuli ocnebis” lideris proeqtia.

ra aZlevT imis Tqmis sababs,

rom Cven ivaniSvilis proeqti

varT? Cvenze mets ibrZvian,

Cvenze mets amxelen biZina ivaniSvils?

roca aqciebi tardeboda

rusTavelze, Cvenze metad idgnen

im siciveSi? sadac saWiro iyo

brZola, yvelgan vibrZodiT.

Cvenze metad moiares regionebi?

Cvenze bevr xalxs Sexvdnen?

Cvenze meti finansebi daxarjes

sakuTari danazogebidan? aba, ratom

amboben, rom giorgi vaSaZe

ivaniSvilis proeqtia?! amas imitom

amboben, rom sxva araferi

darCeniaT, garda imisa, talaxi

gvesrolon.

amis garda, amoCemebuli aqvT,

rom giorgis meuRle vano CxartiSvilis

naTesavia. sxva araferi

aqvT saTqmeli. rame mtkicebuleba

rom hqonodaT, amas xom cxrajer

aafrialebdnen. am adamianebs

salaparako ar aqvT.

piradad me meamayeba, rom

giorgi vaSaZesa da „strategia

aRmaSenebelze” amis garda

saTqmeli araferi aqvT. arc

aranairi kompromati aqvT.

politikuri qulebis dasawerad

ojaxis Rirsebas aravin unda

Seexos da yvelam Tavis ojaxs,

naTesavsa da mamidas mixedos.

_ yvelam rom sakuTar naTe-

savebs mixedos, ar iqneba cudi.

TiTqmis yvela opozicioners

hyavs naTesavi xelisuflebaSi.

_ es Zalian kargi iqneboda,

magram sxvas esvrian talaxs.

giorgize saTqmeli rom araferi

aqvT, CxartiSvilio, gaiZaxian. es

hgoniaT kompromati. namdvili

kompromati rom hqonodaT, amas

cxrajer aafrialebdnen.

_ Tqvenma liderma giorgi

gaxaria debatebSi gamoiwvia. es

populisturi gamowveva iyo? man

xom Tavidanve kargad icoda, rom

moqmedi premieri mis gamowvevas

ar miiRebda.

_ ratom iyo populisturi

gamowveva? an ratom unda yofiliyo

giorgi imaSi darwmunebuli,

rom giorgi gaxaria debatebs ar

dasTanxmdeboda? Cven xom vambobT,

rom evropuli tipis qveynis

aSeneba gvinda?

dasavluri standartebisa da

ganviTarebuli saqarTvelo Tu

gvinda, es niSnavs imas, rom premierobis

kandidatebi debatebSi

monawileoben da saarCevno programebs

ajibreben erTmaneTs. gaxariac

xom premierobis kandidatia?

maSin, adges da dasTanxmdes

am debatebs.

dasavleTSi aseT debatebs

didi yuradRebiT adevnebs amomrCeveli

Tvalyurs. iq mosaxleobas

isic ainteresebs, Tu ra

programebi aqvT politikur partiebs.

„qarTulma ocnebam” amomrCevels

saarCevno programac ki ar

SesTavaza. xalxs rom arafrad

agdeben da cxvris fara hgoniaT,

magitom gamoiwvia vaSaZem gaxaria

debatebSi. qveyanaSi krizisia, mosaxleoba

yoveldRe Raribdeba,

koronapandemiis dros Cinovnikebi

gamdidrdnen, amasTan dakav-

SirebiT gvaqvs kiTxvebi, rac pasuxebs

saWiroebs. es pasuxebi gaxariam

pirdapir eTerSi, debatebis

dros unda gagvces.

_ giorgi vaSaZe opoziciaSi

pirveli iyo, vinc Tqva, rom pre-

mierobis kandidati viqnebio,

rasac didi agresia moyva. vaSaZes

premierobaze rom ar hqono-

da pretenzia, iqneboda Tqveni

partiis mimarT aseTi agresia?

_ ar miyvars farisevloba rwmenaSi,

ar miyvars farisevloba

cxovrebaSi da ar miyvars farisevloba

politikaSi. is xalxi, vinc

mesame-meoTxe vadiT apirebs xelisuflebaSi

mosvlas, ra namusiT

unda gmobdes giorgi vaSaZis

sapremiero ambiciebs?

22 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

gagrZeleba 37-e gv.

Tamar rostiaSvili

577 10 07 06

„qronika+~ amjerad gTavazobT

wlis (da ara marto) yvelaze ucnaur sasamarTlo procesebs,

romelic mimdinare politikuri vnebaTaRelvis fonze sazoga-

doebis yuradRebis miRma darCa...


gmirTa moedanze, samSoblosTvis

daRupuli meomrebis memorialTan

moawera xeli.

ai, axla rac waikiTxeT, imedia,

kargad gaiazreT. bolo orze

gavamaxvilebT yuradRebas: komisiis

erT-erTi wevri imitom

ver itans an piriqiT, zedmetad

kargad itans konkursSi monawiles

da „personaluri damokidebulebis”

gamo uars ambobs

komisiis wevrobaze. komisiis meore

wevri ki komisiis Semajamebel

oqms gmirTa memorialTan

awers xels... rogorc yarsis xelSekrulebas.

aseve beJan xoravam aRniSna,

rom komisiam calkeuli kandidatebi

obieqturi kriteriumebiT

ver Seafasa, radganac gadamwyveti

gaxda ara samecniero na-

Sromebis Sefaseba, aramed gamarjvebul

konkursantebTan piradi

urTierTobebi. visTan?!

Tmis davarcxnisTvis ganTavisuflebuli menejeri

da `TBC bankis~ terminatori-eqsperti

2020 wlis 21 ivliss Tbilisis

saqalaqo sasamarTlos samoqalaqo

saqmeTa kolegiam, brendul

iaponur maRaziaTa qsel

„minisos” saqarTvelos warmomadgenlobis

winaaRmdeg, samsaxuridan

genderuli niSniT ma-

Raziis yofili menejeris gan-

Tavisuflebis saqmeze, pirveli

sxdoma CainiSna. menejers qorwilSi

taS-fanduri ar apaties.

dacvis mxares warmoadgendnen

„axalgazrda advokatebi”.

ufro detalurad saqmis arsi

aseTia: megobris qorwilis Semdeg

kompaniam maRaziis menejeri

Tanamdebobidan gaaTavisufla.

ganTavisuflebis gadawyvetilebaSi

mizezad aRniSnulia Sinaganawesis

uxeSi darRveva, rac gamoixata

dasaqmebulis qmedebiT.

kerZod, dasaqmebuli mis daqvemdebarebaSi

myof oTx Tanam-

SromelTan erTad, samuSao adgilze,

ikeTebda makiaJs da isworebda

Tmas.

ar vxumrobT!

ganTavisuflebuli menejeris

ganmartebiT, man kompaniis menejmentTan

winaswari SeTanxmebiT

aiRo e. w. Day Off, vinaidan mejvaris

statusiT unda daswreboda

megobris qorwils. menejeri

dRis pirveli saaTisTvis unda

gamocxadebuliyo iusticiis

saxlSi xelmoweris RonisZiebis-

Tvis. vinaidan misi samsaxurebrivi

adgili mdebareobda iusticiis

saxlTan axlos, gadawyvita,

rom aRebuli erTdRiani Svebulebis

miuxedavad, mainc gamocxadebuliyo

samsaxurSi da

iqidan gadaadgilebuliyo daniSnulebis

adgilze. mokled, mivida

samsaxurSi, moemzada saqorwino

RonisZiebisTvis _ makia-

Ji gaikeTa! am process xeli ar

SeuSlia maRaziis funqcionirebisTvis.

ijda sadRac Tavis oTaxSi

menejeri da lamazdeboda.

menejerma sasamarTlos 6 dekembers

mimarTa sarCeliT, dazustda

calkeuli moTxovnebi

da igi warmoebaSi miiRes 2020

wlis 27 ianvars. kompaniam sar-

Celze warmodgenili SesagebliT

menejeris sasarCelo moTxovnebi

_ ganTavisuflebis brZanebis

baTilad cnoba, samsaxur-

Si aRdgena, iZulebiTi ganacduris

anazRaureba, _ ar cno da

mxaresTan morigebis SesaZleblobac

gamoricxa. oficialuri

informaciiT, iaponur maRazia-

Ta qseli „miniso” msoflios 79

qveyanaSi 3500-ze meti filialiTaa

warmodgenili, saqarTveloSi

ki 2016 wlidan saqmianobs da

amJamad 15 filialiTaa warmodgenili.

aq patara detali unda davazustoT:

„minisos” qseli silamazisa

da Tavis movlis aqses-

uarebs, maT Soris, parfiumeriis

erT-erTi umsxvilesi realizatoria.

ase rom, menejeris gan-

Tavisufleba im mizeziT, rom is

qorwilisTvis lamazdeboda da

amisTvis Tavisi samsaxuri gamoiyena,

cota ucnaurad JRers.

***

kidev ufro absurdulia zviad

gogiSvilis saqme, romelsac

bankis sesxebis inspeqtori daexxa

Tavs. Tbilisis gldani-naZaladevis

raionuli prokuraturis

dadgenilebiT, mosarCele

dazaralebulad cnes. bankma

TanamSromeli samsaxuridan ki

daiTxova, magram Cveneba ar Seucvlia

da zviad gogiaSvilis mimarT

damdgari Sedegi TviTdazianebad

Seafasa.

dacvis mxarem arCil kaikaciSvilis

xelmZRvanelobiT banks

sajaro bodiSis moxdisken mouwoda

da aRniSna, rom strategiul

samarTalwarmoebas iwyebda.

TBC banks daevala moqalaqis

cemis faqtis amsaxveli video

saTvalTvalo kamerebis Canaweris

gacema, romelmac TvalsaCino

gaxada SemTxvevis adgilze

movlenis ganviTareba.

axla, ra igulisxmeba fizikur

ZaladobaSi _ bankis sesxebis

eqspertma marjvena xelis

muSti daartya dazaralebuls

cxviris midamoSi, ramac gamoiwvia

cxviris areSi motexiloba.

gogiSvilma saswrafod mimarTa

samedicino centrs, sadac daudgines

qalasa da saxis Zvlebis

mravlobiTi motexiloba. aleqsandre

aladaSvilis saxelobis

klinikaSi mas gaukeTes saxis

Zvlebis mravlobiTi motexilobis

Casworeba da imobilizacia,

ybebis an saxis Zvlebis osteoplastika

Zvlovani graftis

gamoyenebiT, aseve sxva rekonstruqciuli

operaciebi ybebze.

klinikis mier gacemuli dokumentis

Tanaxmad, mosarCelis mimarT

ganxorcielda Semdegi saxis

momsaxureba da daisva Semdegi

saxis diagnozi: S600161 S02.7/

S02.8 qalasa da saxis Zvlebis

mravlobiTi motexiloba/qalasa

da saxis sxva Zvlebis motexiloba

AASD99 EES EFS EDS EGS EKS

sxva operaciebi Tavis travmis

gamo, zeda ybis qirurgia, ybebis

Sereuli qirurgia, qveda ybis

qirurgia, safeTqel-qveda yba.

amasTan, klinikis Canaweris mixedviT,

moqalaqe klinikaSi moTavsda

TviTdinebiT da saWiroebda

operaciul Carevas.

mokled, gogiSvilma iseTi

dazianeba miiRo, rom bankis TanamSromelma

erTi muSti Caartya

cxvirSi ki ara, TiTqos terminatorma

pentagonis gumbaTs xe-

Tqa... yvelaze saintereso is iyo,

Tu ra ganmarteba misca am yvelafers

bankma. ra Tqma unda,

sakuTari TanamSromeli unda

daicva, magram is, rom gamoZiebas

ganucxado, TiTqos gogiSvilma

TviTdazianeba miiyena da

Cems eqsperts TiTi ar daukarebiao,

xvdebiT xom, ra absurdia!

samarTaldamcvelebis kiTxvaze,

erTi agvixseniT, rogor unda

miiyenos adamianma qalasa da saxis

Zvlebis mravlobiTi motexilobebi,

zeda da qveda ybebis Zvlebis

CamoSla, isic bankis SenobaSio?

banks amaze pasuxi aRar

hqonda da Tavisi terminatori,

sesxebis eqsperti, samsaxuridan

gaaTavisufla.

Tumca bankma sarCeli ar cno.

eg araferi, rogorc dakiTxvis

oqmSi aris aRniSnuli, gogiSvilma

gamoZiebis procesSi Tavdamsxmeli

amoicno. anu ra gamodis?

_ vinaidan amocnobisken

wavida saqme, bankSi Sesul gogiSvils

uceb spaidermeniviT

Tavs daesxa sesxebis inspeqtori

da yba saxe Cungria?! moqalaqes

mravlobiTi operacia Cautares,

lamis mTeli saxe Tavidan aRudgines

da banki dRemde ar cvlis

Cvenebas TviTdazianebis

miyenebis Sesaxeb _ TviTon gaierTiana

cxvirpirio.

***

axla ki „sulieri aRelvebis”

Sesaxeb da xangrZliv sasamarTlo

procesebze mogiyvebiT:

ivane javaxiSvilis saxelobis

Tbilisis saxelmwifo universtetis

damoukidebel samecniero-kvleviT

erTeulSi _ istoriisa

da eTnologiis institutSi

_ Catarebuli konkursebis

kanonierebis saqmeze. mowmis

saxiT damatebiT dakiTxulma

sakonkurso komisiis samma wevrma:

darejan kldiaSvilma, nino

abakeliam da beJan xoravam sasamarTlos

aRiarebiTi Cveneba

misces. darejan kldiaSvilma

ganacxada, rom konkretuli kandidatebis

sasargeblod, mis mimarT

ganxorcielda zewola,

rac momdinareobda sabiujeto

da arasabiujeto dawesebuleba-

Si dasaqmebuli pirebisgan. komisiis

wevris gancxadebiT, kandidatebis

SerCevis dros upiratesoba

mieniWa maTTan axloblobasa

da aRniSna, rom warmoadgenda

komisiis Tavmjdomare

zaza abaSiZesTan naTelmironobiT

dakavSirebul pirsac. kandidatebis

mimarT piradi SexedulebebiT

Sefasebaze isaubra

komisiis wevrma nino abakeliam,

romelmac aRniSna, rom vinaidan

ar surda konkursSi monawile

calkeuli mecnierebis mimarT

personaluri damokidebulebis

dafiqsireba, komisiis sxdomeb-

Si muSaobaze uari ganacxada.

rac Seexeba beJan xoravas, aRniSnulma

mowmem daadastura,

rom komisiis Semajamebel oqms

`megobris qorwilis Semdeg kompaniam maRaziis menejeri Tanamdebobidan

gaaTavisufla. ganTavisuflebis gadawyvetilebaSi mizezad aRniSnulia

Sinaganawesis uxeSi darRveva, rac gamoixata dasaqmebulis qmedebiT.

kerZod, dasaqmebuli mis daqvemdebarebaSi myof oTx TanamSromelTan

erTad, samuSao adgilze, ikeTebda makiaJs da isworebda Tmas~

jer sad xarT! Tbilisis saqalaqo

sasamarTlos samoqalaqo

saqmeTa kolegiam Tsu-s mecnierebis

saqmeze mowmeTa gamokiTxvisas

saqmeze komisiis sul 5 wevri

gamoikiTxa. sakonkurso komisiis

Tavmjdomare, istorikosma

zaza abaSiZem aRiara, rom

Semajamebel oqms komisiam quCa-

Si moawera xeli, imitom, rom

mecnierebis SesarCevi konkursi

„bakqanaliaao”.

Tbilisis saxelmwifo universtetis

mimarT davas oTxi mosarCele

hyavda: nino RambaSiZe,

lola saraliZe, rusudan laba-

Ze da manana xvedeliZe. dadgenilia,

rom Tsu-is reqtoris

brZanebiT, gamocxadda konkursi

institutSi samecniero personalis

samsaxurSi misaRebad.

amave brZanebiT dadginda konkursSi

monawile pirTa mimarT

moTxovnebi, romelic srulad

daakmayofiles mosarCeleebma.

am wlis ivnisSi, komisiam profesiuli

gamocdilebis Seusabamobis

motiviT, moulodnelad, uari

Tqva mosarCeleebis vakantur

Tanamdebobebze arCevaze, miRebuli

gadawyvetileba ki gansxvavebuli

azriT gaaprotesta

Tavad komisiis orma wevrma.

Tsu-is reqtoris brZanebiT, konkursSi

gamovlenili darRvevebis

Sesaswavlad Seqmna droebi-

Ti komisia. sasamarTlom moismina

informacia, rom sakonkurso

komisiis wevrebma komisiis muSaobaSi

uari Tqves maTi „sulieri

aRelvebis” gamo. oTxivem ase

ganacxada, _ sulieri aRelvebis

gamo komisiaSi monawileobas

ver miviRebTo. mogvianebiT gairkva

maTi „sulieri aRlevebis”

namdvili mizezic _ konkursSi

gamarjvebuli erT-erTi piri

Zveli qveynebis istoriis ganyofilebaSi

nasamarTlevi aRmoCnda.

mokled, sakmaod cnobil

mecniers konkursSi gamarjveba

imiT ananes, rom gauxmovanes is,

rasac 20 weli malavda.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

23


`saxelmwifo TaRliTebis

„jaba kreditis” dazaralebul

nene injgia

kreditorTa asociaciis damfuZn-

591 71 39 98

ebeli da direqtori, zviad gogiaSvili,

„qronika+~-sTan im krim-

inalur sqemaze saubrobs, romelic, misi TqmiT, wlebia, ukve

saqarTveloSi arsebobs. rogorc gogiaSvili acxadebs, kriminalur

sqemebSi CarTuli arian maRalCinosnebi. ufro konkre-

tulad, ris safuZvelze acxadebs gogiaSvili, rom kriminalur

sqemebSi saxelmwifo pirebi monawileoben? ra etapzea „jaba

kreditis” saqme? ras gegmaven dazaralebulebi?

aRniSnuli Temebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+~ zviad gogiaSvils

esaubra:

_ kompania „jaba krediti” Tavisi

statusiT Sps iyo, Tumca „mikrosafinanso

bazarze” sakmaod

aqtiurad moRvaweobda. Tavdapirvelad,

es kompania indmewarme

zanda gogolaZes ekuTvnoda da

2012 wlis 10 Tebervlidan arsebobda,

rogorc lombardi da

valutis gacvlis kompania, magram

2015 wlis 5 marts statusi

Seicvala da gaxda Sps. Tavdapirvelad,

am axali Sps-s erTaderTi

direqtori da 100%-iani

wilis mflobeli zanda gogolaZe

gaxldaT, magram 2016 wlis

pirvel marts, anu erTi wlis

Semdeg, rodesac kompaniis meore

direqtori ukve gaxldaT zanda

gogolaZis meuRle baqar bolo-

TaSvilic, kompaniis 100%-iani

wilis mflobeli gaxades Tavian-

Ti Svili jaba boloTaSvili,

romelic 2005 welsaa dabadebuli

da im droisTvis 11 wlisac

ki ar iyo (Tavad kompaniac am

bavSvis saxels atarebs). amJamad

jaba boloTaSvili 15 wlisaa da

jer kidev arasrulwlovania. savaraudod,

mSoblebma kompania

sakuTar Svils im gaTvliT gadauformes,

rom isini TaRliTuri

saqmianobis warmarTvas apirebdnen

da amiT Seecadnen, rogorc

kompaniis mflobelebs, pasuxismgebloba

Tavidan aeridebinaT.

realurad, problemebi „jaba

kredits”, rogorc kompanias,

2017 wels daewyo, Tumca Cven

amis Sesaxeb gvian gavigeT. 2017

wlis zafxulSi baqar boloTaSvilis

erT-erTi kompania „jaba

qargos” gadamzidi avtomanqana

daakaves saqarTvelo-TurqeTis

sazRvarze da manqanaSi 10 kilogrami

oqro aRmoaCines. saqarTvelos

finansTa saministros sagamoZiebo

samsaxurma am oqros,

iseve rogorc avtomanqanis, konfiskacia

moaxdina. wesiT, baqar

boloTaSvili da avtomanqanis

mZRoli xangrZlivi droiT patimrobaSi

unda aRmoCeniliyvnen,

Tumca prokuraturam orive maTgans

saproceso garigeba gauforma

da sasjelic mxolod pirobiTi

msjavriT Semoifargla. rogorc

CemTvis Tavad finansTa saministros

sagamoZiebo samsaxuris

maRalCinosnebisgan gaxda

cnobili, es saproceso SeTanxmeba

baqar boloTaSvils, daaxloebiT,

erTi milioni lari daujda!!!

aqve unda aRvniSno, rom „jaba

kreditma”, bolo periodSi, kerZod,

2018 wlis bolos, daafuZna

Svilobili kompaniebi, sadac

gadaanawila Tamasuqebi. aseTi

gaxldaT ori kompania: „kredit

grupi” da „boa krediti”. am ori

gamoyofili saqmis prokuror

giorgi gagniZesTan Sexvedrisas

ki aRmoCnda, rom swored is gaxldaT

aradeklarirebuli oqros

kontrabandis saqmis prokurori

da man gauforma baqar boloTaSvilsa

da mis mZRols saproceso

SeTanxmeba. am faqtma Cemi daufaravi

aRSfoTeba gamoiwvia,

radgan ver warmomidgenia, rogor

SeiZleboda aseTi „morigebis”

daSveba maSin, rodesac jar-

Tis „moparvis” gamo adamians cixeSi

ramdenime wliT svamen, xolo

10 kilogrami oqros kontrabandaSi

mxilebul adamians gareT

toveb saproceso SeTanxmebis

safuZvelze! am gamoSvebiT ki mas

mieca igive saqmianobis gagr-

Zelebis saSualeba da baqar boloTaSvilmac

kvlav gaagrZela

Tavisi „biznesi”. prokuratura

„gaxmaurebul saqmeebze” sazogadoebis

maRali interesidan gamomdinare

mediisTvis brifingebs

marTavs xolme, magram,

ratomRac, „jaba kreditis” damfuZneblis

dakavebisa da 10 kilogrami

oqros konfiskaciis

Sesaxeb brifingi ar gaumarTavT.

mimaCnia, rom es saqme swored ma-

Rali sazogadoebrivi interesis

kategorias ganekuTvneboda, radgan

2017 wlisTvis „jaba kreditis”

cnobadoba TiTqmis 100%

iyo agresiuli sareklamo kampaniidan

gamomdinare, rac presiTa

da televiziiT mimdinareobda

da, amavdroulad, „jaba kredits”

bevri Tamasuqaric hyavda,

romelTac didi odenobis Tanxa

SehqondaT kompaniaSi, romlis

xelmZRvanelic kanonsawinaaRmdego

saqmianobaSi iyo Cabmuli!

Sesabamisad, Cven unda gvcodnoda

momxdari dakavebis Sesaxeb.

rogorc dRes gamoZieba gvimtkicebs,

2017 wlidan Tanxebis didi

nawili, romelic am kompaniaSi

Sedioda, ar brunavda da bolo-

TaSvili am Tanxebs wlebis ganmavlobaSi

iTvisebda.

_ Tqven ra Semxebloba gqon-

daT „jaba kreditTan”?

_ kompaniam nel-nela moixveWa

momxmareblis ndoba. 2017 wlamde

nebismieri raodenobis Tanxis

Setana da gamotana uproblemod

SeeZloT momxmareblebs. Tavdapirvelad

gveSinoda, rom Sesa-

Zlebeli iyo, ganmeorebuliyo is,

rac 90-ian wlebSi xdeboda, rodesac

xalxisgan fuls iRebdnen

da Semdeg garbodnen. Tumca „jaba

kreditis” mflobelebma moaxerxes

da iluzia Segviqmnes, rom

kompania viTardeboda. isini atarebdnen

did sareklamo kampanie-

zviad gogiaSvili:

ès gvafiqrebinebs,

rom am saqmis

saTaveebi midis

swored iqiT, saidanac

kontroldeba

òqros biznesi~

`Tavad zanda gogolaZe acxadebda kompaniis

klientebTan kerZo saubrebSi, visac Tamasuqi

Sehqonda `jaba kreditSi~, rom maT 30 milioni

aSS dolaris oqro udevT `Tibisi bankSi~,

amitom ar unda eSinodeT, rom `jaba kredits~

raime finansuri problemebi Seeqmneba. am

yvelafridan gamomdinare, gonivruli eWvi

gviCndeba, rom es ar iyo erTi kerZo piris

mier mofiqrebuli sqema. am TaRliTur sqemaSi

aucileblad CarTuli iyvnen saxelmwifo

maRalCinosnebi, romlebic mfarvelobdnen

zanda gogolaZesa da baqar boloTaSvils,

maTi mfarvelobiT ki isini axerxebdnen oqros

kontrabandis ganxorcielebas~

bs. am fonze mec da bevri adamianic

vendeT am kompanias, SevitaneT

Tanxa. me piradad 2015 wels

gavxseni pirvelad Tamasuqi. „jaba

krediti” mosaxleobisgan Tanxebs

iRebda sesxis an igive Tamasuqis

saxiT, razedac formdeboda

xelSekruleba da amis sanacvlod

gvixdida yovelTviurad

saprocento sargebels. saxelmwifos

ki Cveni misaRebi sargeblidan

Tanxis 5% mihqonda. xelSekrulebiT

ase iyo gaTvaliswinebuli,

Tumca, rogorc aRmoCnda,

bolo periodSi saxelmwifos ar

uxdidnen am 5%-sac da TviTon

iTvisebdnen mas.

2017 wlis oqtomberSi „jaba

kredits” „Tibisi bankma” giravnobis

xelSekruleba gauforma,

romliTac „jaba kreditis” saku-

TrebaSi arsebuli da momavalSi

SeZenili yvela qoneba daitvir-

Ta, maT Soris, „oqros lombardis”

sasesxo portfeli. am xelSekrulebis

gaformebidan erTi

wlis Semdeg „jaba kreditis”

damfuZneblebma, zanda gogola-

Zem da baqar boloTaSvilma, Tavad

„Tibisi bankis” xelSewyobiT,

daafuZnes axali kompania „grand

finansi”, Tumca im kompaniis

Tavdapirveli mflobeli nominalurad

zanda gogolaZis axlo

megobari, ana gabunia iyo. xelSekrulebiT

oqros lombardi gadasces

„grand finanss”. rogorc

„Tibisi bankis” maRali Tanamdebobis

pirebma CemTan da Cveni

asociaciis kidev erT damfuZnebelTan

Sexvedrisas ganacxades,

es xelSekruleba bankSi gaformda

da realuri finansuri tranzaqciac

„Tibisi bankSi” Sesrulda.

„jaba kreditis” oqros lombardi

iyida „grand finansma”,

Tanxa ki „Tibisi bankis” sesxis

saxiT gaica. es xelSekruleba im

notariusis mier aris gaformebuli,

romlis ofisic „Tibisi

bankis” saTavo ofisSi, marjaniSvilis

7 nomerSi mdebareobs. rodesac

me, rogorc „jaba kreditis”

dazaralebul kreditorTa

asociaciis direqtorma, notariusTa

palatas am xelSekrulebis

aslis gadmocemis moTxovniT

mivmarTe, uari miTxres, radgan

xelSekrulebis monawile mxare

ar varT da ar gvaqvs kerZo garigebis

aslebis miRebis ufleba,

Tumca sasamarTlos wesiT Cven

amas aucileblad movipovebT.

ris mopovebac SevZeli, es aris

sajaro reestrSi registrirebuli

giravnobis xelSekrulebebi,

sadac SaviT TeTrze weria, rom

roca „grand finansisTvis” gadacemuli

„oqros lombardis” sasesxo

portfelis uzrunvelyofis

sagani didia, msesxebels

aqvs ufleba, 30 milioni aSS dolari

an misi ekvivalenturi Tanxa

sesxis saxiT miiRos „Tibisi

bankisgan”! Sesabamisad, 30 milioni

aSS dolaris an misi ekvivalentis

moculobis sakredito xazis

sapirwoned arsebobs Sesabamisi

oqros odenobis uzrunvelyofa!

me SemiZlia 100%-iT giTxraT,

rom es ver iqneboda mosaxleobis

mier dagiravebuli oqro,

miT umetes, xelSekrulebaSi weria,

rom „jaba krediti”, xolo Semdgom

„grand finansi” warmoadgenda

giravnobis sagnis mflobels.

_ ra faqtebze dayrdnobiT

ambobs amas?

_ Tavdapirvelad, roca „Tibisi

bankma” 2017 wlis 24 oqtombers

„jaba kreditTan” gaaforma

giravnobis xelSekruleba, masSi

fiqsirdeba 15 milioni aSS dolari,

rogorc maqsimaluri Tanxis

odenoba, romlis moTxovnis

uflebac hqonda damgiravebels;

Semdeg 21 milioni; zustad erTi

wlis Semdeg ki, 2018 wlis 12 oqtombris

giravnobis xelSekrulebaSi,

30 milioni aSS dolari weria.

Tqven gjeraT, rom erTi

wlis ganmavlobaSi 15 milioni

aSS dolaris ekvivalenti oqro

miiRo „jaba kreditma” mosaxleobisgan

salombarde sesxebis sanacvlod

da daisakuTra es oqro,

radganac mosaxleobam ver gadaixada

sesxi? me _ ara. garda amisa,

Tavad zanda gogolaZe acxadebda

kompaniis klientebTan kerZo

saubrebSi, visac Tamasuqi Sehqonda

„jaba kreditSi”, rom maT 30

milioni aSS dolaris oqro udevT

„Tibisi bankSi”, amitom ar unda

eSinodeT, rom „jaba kredits”

raime finansuri problemebi Seeqmneba.

am yvelafridan gamomdinare,

gonivruli eWvi gviCndeba,

rom es ar iyo erTi kerZo piris

mier mofiqrebuli sqema. am Ta-

RliTur sqemaSi aucileblad

CarTuli iyvnen saxelmwifo ma-

RalCinosnebi, romlebic mfarvelobdnen

zanda gogolaZesa da

baqar boloTaSvils, maTi mfarvelobiT

ki isini axerxebdnen oqros

kontrabandis ganxorcielebas.

_ Tu boloTaSvils maRalCi-

nosnebi mfarvelobdnen, Cndeba

logikuri kiTxva, _ ratom dai-

Wires is?

24

24 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


interesebs icavs~

_ zanda gogolaZem aRiara,

rom 5-7 kilo oqro uproblemod

Semoitanes, Tumca baqar boloTaSvili

10 kilo oqros Semotanaze

daiWires. rogorc Cans, es

„Warbi” raodenoba „zemoT” ar

hqondaT SeTanxmebuli. etyoba,

baqar boloTaSvils „mada gaexsna”

da Tavisi mfarvelebis motyueba

gadawyvita im mizniT, rom

mas meti sargebeli mieRo. savaraudod,

swored amis gamo daakaves.

_ am etapze ramdeni dazaralebulia

oficialurad aRi-

arebuli?

_ Cven varT 339 oficialurad

aRiarebuli dazaralebuli, Tumca

garkveulma nawilma, visac

sakmaod soliduri Tanxebis Tamasuqebi

hqonda gaxsnili, uari

Tqva gamoZiebasTan TanamSromlobaze

sxvadasxva mizezis gamo.

„jaba kreditis” 339 dazaralebulis

garda, arian „kredit

grupisa” da „boa kreditis” dazaralebulebic,

TiToeul kompaniaSi

19 dazaralebulia. Tumca

maT, jerjerobiT, ar aqvT dazaralebulis

statusi. dRemde

mimdinareobs gamoZieba, Tumca

arc reviziis daskvnaa da arc

vinmes aqvs brali wayenebuli.

roca es saqme movikiTxe, mipasuxes,

bolomde ar varT saqmeSi

garkveulebio. maSin, roca „jaba

kreditis” saqmis gamoZieba Cveni

zewolis Sedegad 8 TveSi dasrulda

da reviziis aqti SarSan

25 dekembers gamoica. 339 adamianis

Tamasuqebis Seswavla 8 Tve-

Si moxerxda da 38 adamianis saqme

dRemde ver gamoiZies?!

_ ra etapzea amjerad saqme?

_ gasul kviras zanda gogolaZisa

da baqar boloTaSvilis

sasamarTlo procesis bolo sxdoma

Catarda. boloTaSvili

dauswreblad gaasamarTles.

orives 8-8 weli miesaja, Tumca

Cven moviTxovT, rom isini maqsimalurad

daisajon, radgan es

muxli iTvaliswinebda 11 wlamde

sasjels. moviTxovT am gadawyvetilebis

gasaCivrebas, vinaidan

darwmunebulebi varT, rom

Tu maT mimarT maqsimalurad mkacr

sasjels ar gamoitanen, isini

Tanxebis dabrunebas ar gadawyveten.

Cvens saqmeze samjer Seicvala

prokurori, Tavidan iyo

mixeil sadraZe, Semdeg giorgi

miqelaZe, axla ki aris ziniko

qobalia. gamoyofil saqmes giorgi

gagniZe uwevs zedamxedvelobas.

minda aRvniSno, rom mixeil

sadraZe aseve iyo gigi ugulavas

saqmis prokurori da am ori saqmis

„gaZRolis” Semdeg daawinaures.

daskvnebi mkiTxvelma gamoitanos.

samarTlebrivad, pirveli

etapi dasrulda, magram cxadia,

gogolaZisa da boloTaSvilis

interesebis damcvelebi gaasaCivreben

da vidre uzenaesi

sasamarTlos CaTvliT ar dasruldeba

procesebi, manamde es saqme

daxurulad ver CaiTvleba.

rac Seexeba qonebriv davas, es

dRemde ar daviwyeT imitom, rom

Cven gvindoda, gamoZiebas daedgina,

sad wavida qoneba, radgan

amis gareSe, roca faqtobrivad

„jaba kredits” dRes qoneba ar

gaaCnia, samoqalaqo davis dawyeba

uazrobaa. am SemTxvevaSi maTi

qoneba, gadaformebulia da mTeli

aqtivebi gadatanilia sxva

subieqtebSi. samoqalaqo davis

dawyebisas ki mosamarTles mtkicebulebebi

unda warvudginoT.

es mtkicebulebebi gamoZiebas

unda moepovebina. gamoZiebas vekiTxebiT:

sad wavida is fuli,

romelic „Tibisi bankSi” „grand

finansTan” gaformebuli garigebis

Sedegad miiRo „jaba kreditma”?

rogor SeiZleba, gaqres

milionobiT lari, romelsac,

rogorc gamoZieba gvimtkicebda,

naRdi fulis saxiT agrovebda

baqar boloTaSvili da zanda

gogolaZe. rogor gaitana sazRvarze

(Tu gaitana)? ori variantia:

an qveynidan aris gatanili,

an aq aris dabandebuli da „gadamaluli”.

Tu aq aris, maSin unda

gamoiZion da dagvibrunon. am mimarTulebiT

gamoZiebas konkretuli

Sedegi ar gaaCnia. gamoZieba

gveubneba, rom unda davjerdeT

raRac miwis nakveTebs (xilis

baRebs) da kariers, romelic

baqar boloTaSvilis dedis saxelzea

gaformebuli da swored

2018 wlis noemberSi aris SeZenili,

mas Semdeg, rac „grand finansma”

gadauricxa Tanxa „jaba kredits”.

rogorc Cans, am karieris

SeZena anakliis portis mSeneblobas

ukavSirdeboda, maSin „Tibisi

banki” anakliis konsorciumSi

iyo CarTuli da boloTaSvilis

gaTvlebiT es mas did sargebels

moutanda. mTeli sqemebi hqondaT

mofiqrebulli, magram „saqme”

ise ar gamovida.

_ ra aris Tqveni mTavari

moTxovna?

_ pirvel rigSi, viTxovT

dagvibrundes Tanxebi. CvenTvis

ar aris gadamwyveti, zanda gogolaZe

cixeSi iqneba Tu gaaTavisufleben.

ra Tqma unda, damnaSaveebi

unda daisajon, magram ubralod

boloTaSvilisa da gogolaZis

cixeSi CasmiT dazaralebulebis

problemebi ar gvardeba.

mTavaria Tanxebis dabruneba.

Cven saxelmwifosgan saqmis bolomde

miyvanas moviTxovT. 2019

wlis Tebervlis bolos an martis

dasawyisSi saxelmwifom boloTaSvils

qveynis datovebis

saSualeba misca maSin, roca kompaniis

angariSebs ukve inkaso

edo, saxelmwifos winaSe sam milion

larze meti davalianeba

hqondaT dagrovili, aseve finansuri

policia „jaba kreditis”

finansuri darRvevebis saqmes

iZiebda. „biznesis keTebis mizniT

gavdivaro, ase ganacxada da ra

gveqna, xels xom ar SevuSlidiT?”

_ ase amixsna es faqti finansTa

saministros sagamoZiebo

samsaxuris mTavari sammarTvelos

ufrosma. boloTaSvili TurqeTidan

ekontaqteba Tavisi

ojaxis wevrebs, advokatebs. me

gavige misi telefonis nomeri,

romelic „interpols” oficialuri

werilis saxiT mivawode. sxvaTa

Soris, „interpolis” erovnuli

biuro „Camoalaborantes”

da aRar aris calke mdgomi

damoukidebeli struqtura da

Sss-s erT-erTi sammarTvelo

gaxlavT dRes. maTgan araadekvaturi

pasuxi miviRe, rom Turme

boloTaSvili registrirebulia

„interpolis” saitze da wiTeli

cirkulariT iZebneba, magram

realurad ra etapzea es Zebna,

pasuxi ver miviRe. saxelmwifom

Tvalebze xelebi aifara da baqar

boloTaSvilis qveynidan „gaparva”

„gamorCa”. „jaba kreditis”

TanamSromlebi, romlebic momxmarebels

TvalebSi uyurebdnen

da atyuebdnen, rom Tanxebi SeetanaT,

Turme damnaSaveebi ar yofilan.

prokurorma rogorc amixsna,

isini TavianT movaleobas asrulebdneno.

rodesac maT icodnen,

rom danaSauls sCadionen da

mainc ganagrZnobdnen saqmianobas,

es TaRliTobaSi Tanamonawileoba

ar aris?! iseTi gancda

gvaqvs, rom saxelmwifo cdilobs,

ara Cveni, dazaralebulebis,

aramed TaRliTebis interesebi

daicvas. is, rom am saqmeze

gamoZieba 8 TveSi dasrulda, es

Cveni, dazaralebulebis permanentuli

aqtiurobis Sedegi iyo:

mudmivad aqciebs vmarTavdiT,

Tema mediis saSualebiT Suqdeboda.

ase rom, sazogadoebrivi

azris gavleniTac es saqme SedarebiT

swrafad dasrulda, magram

erTia, damnaSaveebis daWera

da meorea dazaralebulebisTvis

Tanxebis dabruneba.

_ Tqven araerTxel aRniSneT,

rom maRalCinosnebi mfarvelobdnen

damnaSaveebs da TaRli-

Tur sqemebs. ris safuZvelze

fiqrobT amas?

_ Cven mivmarTeT absoluturad

yvela uwyebas: generalur

prokuraturas, Sinagan saqmeTa

saministros, finansTa saministros,

aseve mivediT „qarTuli

ocnebis” ofisSi. werilobiT mivmarTeT

„qarTuli ocnebis” generalur

mdivan kaxa kalaZes, is

aseve qalaqis meria da dazaralebulebis

umravlesoba swored

Tbilisis mcxovreblebi varT.

nebismier SemTxvevaSi es sakiTxi

merias exeba. Tumca aranairi reagireba

mas ar hqonia. samjer

SevxvdiT parlamentis adamianis

uflebaTa da samoqalaqo integraciis

komitetis Tavmjdomare

sofio kilaZes, safinanso-sabiujeto

komitetis Tavmjdomare

irakli kovzanaZes, erTxel erovnuli

bankis vice-prezident

papuna leJavas. aseve piradad me

da kidev ori dazaralebuli orjer

SevxvdiT iusticiis ministr

Tea wulukians. pirveli Sexvedris

dros is keTilganwyobili iyo,

gviTxra, rom yovelTvis daicavda

dazaralebulebis interesebs,

Tumca meore Sexvedris dros

radikalurad Secvlili dagvxvda

da piradad me misayvedura,

TiTqos araswori mimarTulebiT

vakeTeb aqcentebs da „raSi mainteresebs

oqros warmomavloba?”

„me vesaubre vano maWavarians da

man miTxra, rom „Tibisi banki”

xels ver mohkidebs im oqros,

romelic iq devs. erovnuli banki

uwevs zedamxedvelobas am oqros

moZraobas, ase rom, es oqro arsad

wava”, _ swored es sityvebi

gviTxra Tea wulukianma. gasagebia,

rom es oqro arsad wava da

ver „aorTqldeba”, magram Cven

aranairi wvdoma aRar gvaqvs im

oqroze da aravin apirebs am aqtivis

gamoyenebas Cveni zianis

asanazRaureblad. mokled, Sexvedrebi

da saubrebi darCa saubrebad,

xolo CvenTvis moyenebuli

zianis anazRaurebis sakiTxi er-

Ti nabijiTac ki ver wavida win!

swored es gvafiqrebinebs, rom am

saqmis saTaveebi midis swored

iqiT, saidanac kontroldeba

„oqros biznesi”. Cveni varaudiT,

„jaba krediti” ar gaxldaT er-

TaderTi, romelic amdagvar

saqmianobaSi iyo CarTuli, radgan

sxva kompaniebic, magaliTad,

„evro krediti” da „nano krediti”

analogiurad gakotrda. im

saqmeebSic „saqarTvelos banki”

da „Tibisi banki” figurireben.

_ ras gegmavT im SemTxvevaSi,

Tu Tqveni interesebi ar dakmay-

ofildeba?

_ Tu gamoZieba ver gamokveTs,

sad wavida aqtivebi da Tanxebi,

strasburgis gziT vibrZolebT,

imitom, rom ukve sakmarisad dagrovda

saxelmwifos mier daSvebuli

„Secdomebi” da realur

gamoZiebaze Tavis arideba. safu-

Zvlebi sakmarisi iqneba, radgan

zarali Zalian didia, rac oficialurad

dadasturebulia da

es aris 14-17 milioni lari.

25


`qarTuli ocneba~ saarCevnod

saqarTveloSi arsebul mZime

Sorena marsagiSvili

politikur suraTs Cvens same-

599 92 16 22

zobloSi dawyebuli SeiaraRebu-

li dapirispireba kidev ufro

amZimebs. somxeTsa da azerbaijans Soris saomari moqmedebebi

isev ganaxlda. orive Cveni mezobeli saxelmwifoa da Tu iq

droze ar daregulirda viTareba, saqarTvelosac Seeqmneba

problemebi. leiboristuli partiis wevri beJan naTelaSvili

imedovnebs, rom qarTveli politikosebi yarabaRis konfliqt-

Tan dakavSirebiT gonivrul gancxadebebs gaakeTeben. naTelaS-

vils gansakuTrebiT salome zurabiSvilis teqstebi aSinebs.

is xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebs mosiarule bombebs

uwodebs. leiboristuli partiis wevrs eWvebs uCens xelisuflebis

simSvide koronainficirebulebis zrdasTan dakavSire-

biT. igi fiqrobs, rom „qarTul ocnebas” raRac aqvs Cafiqre-

buli da arCevnebis win koronas karts gaaTamaSebs.

ratom aris saSiSi salome

zurabiSvilis

gancxadebebi?

rogor unda moiqces saqarTve-

los xelisufleba, Tu yarabaRis

konfliqti gamwvavda? rogor

unda vuSveloT lars? uSvebs Tu

ara Secdomebs opozicia? _ amis

Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s beJan naTe-

laSvili esaubreba:

_ batono beJan, Cvens samezob-

loSi seriozulad gamwvavda

situacia. eqspertebi varaudoben,

rom somxeT-azerbaijanis Seiar-

aRebuli dapirispireba saqar-

Tvelozec iqoniebs uaryofiT

gavlenas. Tqveni azriT, ra sa-

frTxeebi gvemuqreba?

_ saqarTvelo SeiZleba seriozuli

safrTxis winaSe dadges.

xumroba saqme xom araa, rom Cveni

ori mezobeli saxelmwifo omis

qarcecxlSi Caeba. saqarTvelos

politika am sakiTxis mimarT

maqsimalurad frTxili unda

iyos. Cveni politikosebi sanam

rames ityvian, asjer unda gazomon

da erTxel gaWran.

_ Cveni xelisuflebis warmo-

madgenlebs aseTi diplomatia ar

axasiaTebT. salome zurabiSvil-

ma iseTi gancxadebebi gaakeTa,

rom azerbaijanma daviTgareja

wagvarTva. axla ras elodebiT

zurabiSvilisgan? saqarTveloSi

bevrs eSinia, Tu ra gancxadebebs

gaakeTebs mTavarsardali.

_ samwuxaroa, rom qveynis uma-

Rlesi mTavarsardali aseTi araprognozirebadia.

isic da

„qarTuli ocnebis” sxva wevrebic

qarTuli saxelmwifoebriobisTvis

mosiarule bombebi arian. Zalian

miWirs imis prognozireba, Tu

ra pozicias daikaveben saqarTvelos

umaRlesi eSelonebi yarabaRis

konfliqtTan dakavSirebiT.

rTul mdgomareobaSi imyofeba

Cveni qveyana. iseTi xelisufleba

gvyavs, jobia, sul upatronod

viyoT darCenili. principSi, upatronoebi

varT. eseni mxolod sakuTar

Tavze zrunaven. qveyana da

xalxis bedi saerTod ar aRelvebT.

amaTi wyalobiT somxeT-azerbaijanis

SeiaraRebuli konfliqti

SeiZleba, CvenTvis Zalian

mZime aRmoCndes. Tavs rame ubedureba

rom ar dagvatydes, maqsimaluri

sifrTxile unda gamovi-

CinoT. yvelam gaviWirvoT da oqtomberi

rogorme gadavagoroT,

mere aucileblad gveSveleba.

mTavaria, erTi Tve ramenairad

gavZloT.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom oqtomb-

ers Tu gadavagorebT, gveSvele-

ba?

_ 31 oqtombers saparlamento

arCevnebi tardeba. am dRes saqar-

Tvelos sxeulidan erTxel da

samudamod unda amovkveToT is

avTvisebiani simsivne, romelsac

„qarTuli ocneba”, anu saqoceTi

hqvia. am saqoceTma qveyana yvela

mimarTulebiT CamoSala. sfero

ar datoves, sadac katastrofuli

viTareba ar Seqmnes. am mavneblurma

Zalam saqarTvelosa da

msoflios isic daanaxa, rom maTi

gaumaZRroba usazRvroa. arc ki

vici, maT qmedebas ra davarqva.

Wamen, Wamen da ver ZRebian.

_ aseT mdgomareobas bulemia

hqvia.

_ amaT bulemia kvadratSi

sWirT. rva welia, Wamen, magram

verafriT danayrdnen. Tavis

qonebas rom Wamdnen, xmas ar amoviRebdi,

magram biujetisa da

xalxis fulebiT ikvebebian. amaTi

dauokebeli madis damsaxurebaa,

rom Cveni erovnuli valuta

saSineli siswrafiT gaurkveveli

mimarTulebiT garbis.

_ „qarTul ocnebaSi” laris

Tavawyvetil sirbils sagangaSod

ar miiCneven.

_ parlamentis yofili Tavmjdomare

irakli kobaxiZe ambobs,

rom lars Cveni Tanadgoma sWirdebao.

„gvekaifeba”, eg SeCvenebuli,

Tu marTla aseTi azrebi mosdis

TavSi? am adamianis nebismieri gancxadeba

cocxali anekdotia. mis

gamoTqmebze pirdapir morgebulia

Semdegi fraza _ sasaciloa, satirali

rom ar iyos. am kululebiani

biWis yoveli piris gaReba

Cveni qveynisTvis tragediaa.

_ qveynisTvis ratom aris tra-

gedia?

_ imitom, rom es persona ramdenime

weli saqarTvelos parlamentis

Tavmjdomare iyo. ivaniSvilma

misi gaspikerebiT saqarTvelos

Seuracxyofa miayena. erovnul

valutas marTlac sWirdeba

Svela, oRond larisTvis gverdSi

amodgoma aranair Sedegs ar gamoiRebs.

erTmaneTs mTeli saqarTvelo

unda daudges gverdiT, politikuri

gansxvavebebi droebiT

unda gadavdoT da es ugunurebi

moviSoroT. 31 oqtombers maTi

bogini unda dasruldes. bedis

ukuRmarTobiT Tu Cveni daudevrobiT

davisviT isini Tavze. axla

maTi gaSvebis droa. isedac didi

xani avitaneT. qveyana am simsivnisgan

unda ganvkurnoT. amas mx-

beJan naTelaSvili:

ìvaniSvilma

politika

savaWro

daxlad

gadaaqcia~

olod erTad dgomiT SevZlebT.

amaT xelisuflebidan rom gavuSvebT,

laric dastabilurdeba da

kriminalic daiklebs, korufciac

gaqreba, samuSao adgilebic gamo-

Cndeba da xalxi SimSiliT aRar

daiRupeba. amaT xelSi weliwadSi

ramdenime aseuli bavSvi iRupeba

SimSiliT, aTeulobiT aTasi bavSvi

ki naxevrad mSieri dadis. darwmunebuli

var, rom arCevnebis

Semdeg saqarTvelos eyoleba koaliciuri

mTavroba, romelic yvela

im gamowvevas gaumklavdeba,

rac dRes Cveni qveynis winaSea.

_ imisTvis, rom qveyanas koaliciuri

mTavroba hyavdes, opozi-

ciam erTmaneTTan saerTo ena

unda gamonaxos. arsebul situa-

ciaSi es ramdenad realuria? da-

Wames opoziciurma partiebma

erTmaneTi.

_ arCevnebi kars mogvadga da

aseT dros emociebi sWarbobs

xolme. ismis mkvaxe da mwvave gancxadebebi,

magram piradad me amaSi

tragedias ver vxedav. sxvebsac

migiwodebT, rom dramatulad nu

aRiqvamT am procesebs. ifiqreT

imaze, rom bevri saerTo aqvs

opoziciur Zalebs. es maZlevs

imis Tqmis uflebas, rom arCevnebis

Semdeg koaliciuri mTavroba

gveyoleba.

`parlamentis yofili Tavmjdomare irakli

kobaxiZe ambobs, rom lars Cveni Tanadgoma

sWirdebao. `gvekaifeba~, eg SeCvenebuli, Tu

marTla aseTi azrebi mosdis TavSi? am adamianis

nebismieri gancxadeba cocxali anekdotia. mis

gamoTqmebze pirdapir morgebulia Semdegi fraza

- sasaciloa, satirali rom ar iyos. am

kululebiani biWis yoveli piris gaReba Cveni

qveynisTvis tragediaa~

_ ra aqvT saerTo opoziciur

partiebs, rac gafiqrebinebT,

rom koaliciuri mTavroba gvey-

oleba?

_ yvelas gvinda, rom xelisufleba

Seicvalos. SeTanxmebulebi

varT saerTo maJoritarul kandidatebze.

rac ar unda lanZRon

opozicionerebma erTmaneTi, molaparakebebis

magidasTan miRweuli

SeTanxmebebi ZalaSi rCeba. konkurentul

garemoSi Cveulebrivi

ambavia, roca erTi opoziciuri

partia meores kbens. aseTi wakbenebi

arCevnebis Tanmdevi procesia.

bednieri var, rom opozicia

swored leiboristuli partiis

ofisSi SeTanxmda erTobliv moqmedebebze.

marTalia, „qocebma”

Cvens Tavyrilobebs fanCaturi

daarqves, magram mTavaria is Sedegi,

rac Cven davdeT. Cvenma brZolam

moitana is, rom momaval parlamentSi

73 muqTaxora aRar gveyoleba.

mxolod 30 maJoritari

iqneba umaRles sakanonmdeblo

organoSi. 2024 wels ki srulad

proporciul sistemaze gadava

qveyanas. amis Sedegad politika

daemsgavseba politikas da ara

savaWro daxls. politika savaWro

daxlad swored maJoritarebma

aqcies. maJoritarebi aqamdec kargad

vaWrobdnen, magram xelisuflebaSi

ivaniSvilis mosvlis Semdeg

namdvili vaWroba gaCaRda.

Cven amas wertils davusvamT da

xalxi naxavs, Tu ra aris namdvili

politika.

_ Tqveni saubridan gamom-

dinare is, rac opoziciaSi xdeba,

Cveulebrivi ambavia da amis gamo

nerviuloba ar Rirs. marTla ase

fiqrobT, Tu amomrCevels uke-

TebT guls?

_ marTla ase vfiqrob. aseTi

ambebi arCevnebis dros Cveulebrivi

ambavia. bevr rameze ki Sev-

TanxmdiT, magram iseT saswauls

namdvilad ver movaxdendiT, rom

26

26 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


koronas karts gaaTamaSebs~

opozicionerebs erTmaneTze rame

augi ar wamoscdenodaT. SeiZleba,

es cudi mosasmenia,

_ magram es wamocdenebi „qocebis”

wisqvilze rom asxams wy-

als, amaze ar gifiqriaT?

_ ratom asxams „qocebis” wisqvilze

wyals? Cveulebrivi saar-

Cevno garemoa opoziciaSi. Cven ar

gadavqceulvarT erT partiad.

opoziciuri partiebi konkretuli

sakiTxebis garSemo gaerTiandnen.

aris Temebi, sadac yvelas

sxvadasxva mosazreba gvaqvs. arCevnebis

win, gnebavT, sxva drosac,

dasavleTsa da aRmosavleTSi

politikuri oponentebi erTmaneTs

kbenen xolme. es politikis

Tanmdevi nawilia. amis gareSe politika

warmoudgenelia. is ufro

cudi iqneboda, yvela erT azrze

rom viyoT.

_ rodesac Seni konkurenti

miliarderia, maSinac gamarTle-

bulia erTmaneTis wakbenebi?

_ konkurencia yovelTvis gamarTlebulia.

rac Seexeba biZina

ivaniSvils, is opoziciis konkurenti

araa, is saqarTvelos dauZinebeli

mteria. iseTi saSineleba

damarTa qveyanas, rom saqarTvelosTvis

amdeni monRolebs, osmalebs,

sparselebsa da rusebs

erTad aRebuli ar dauSavebiaT. is

saqarTveloSi Cvenma okupantma

mezobelma Semoagdo. is realurad

putinis gubernatoria da ara

damoukidebeli qveynis xelisufali.

is rom unda wavides, amaze ori

azri ar arsebobs. opozciaSi asebuli

dapirispireba miTqma-moTqmisa

da xalxis dapanikebis sababi

ar unda gaxdes.

_ imasac xom gaaCnia, ra xarisxiT

kbenen opozicionerebi erT-

maneTs?

_ ra Tqma unda, esec mniSvnelovani

momentia, magram Zalianac

rom ukbinon, arc es iqneba tragedia.

gvelaSapi ki gvyavs mosa-

Sorebeli, magram arCevnebi mainc

arCevnebia da opoziciis SigniT

konkurencia sul iqneba. ase uceb

ver gadavalT im kulturaze, rom

yvelafrisgan Tavi SevikavoT da

mxolod mozomili gancxadebebi

vakeToT.

_ qarTvelebisTvis Tavis

Sekaveba cota rTuli iqneba.

_ cota ki ara, Zalian rTuli

iqneba. mogexsenebaT, emociuri

xalxi varT. am dapirispirebaze

rom amden yuradRebas vamaxvilebT,

imaze ratom ar vsaubrobT,

ramxela winsvla aqvs opoziciur

partiebs.

_ ra winsvlaa?

_ molaparakebebis magidasTan

iseTi opoziciuri partiebis warmomadgenlebi

dasxdnen, romlebic

erTmaneTs gamarjobasac ki ar

eubnebodnen. gamarjobis Tqmas vin

Civis, ukanaskneli sityvebiT lan-

ZRavdnen da aginebdnen erTmaneTs.

amaT erTi magidis garSemo roca

moiyares Tavi, qarTul politika-

Si sruliad axali etapi daiwyo.

es aris yvelasTvis kargi. pirvel

rigSi, es amomrCevels unda uxarodes.

_ amomrCevels ratom unda

uxarodes?

_ imitom, rom arCevnebze auci-

`samwuxaroa, rom qveynis umaRlesi mTavarsardali aseTi

araprognozirebadia. isic da `qarTuli ocnebis~ sxva wevrebic qarTuli

saxelmwifoebriobisTvis mosiarule bombebi arian. Zalian miWirs imis

prognozireba, Tu ra pozicias daikaveben saqarTvelos umaRlesi eSelonebi

yarabaRis konfliqtTan dakavSirebiT. rTul mdgomareobaSi imyofeba Cveni

qveyana. iseTi xelisufleba gvyavs, jobia, sul upatronod viyoT darCenili.

principSi, upatronoebi varT~

leblad dadgeba Sedegi, kamaTic

iqneba, wakbenebic, magram avtomatebs

aravin aiRebs xelSi. es gamoricxulia.

me Tu mkiTxavT, opozicia

bevrad naklebad lanZRavs

erTmaneTs, vidre es wina wlebSi

iyo. Tanac es araa lanZRva, es

mxolod konkurenciaa. viRacebis

gamosvlebi arc me momwons da amis

Sesaxeb vsaubrob. im dRes, magaliTad,

miSa saakaSvili gavakritike.

amaSi cudi araferia. jansaRi

kritika mxolod misasalmebelia.

_ fiqrobT, rom rac xdeba,

normaluria? isic normalurad

migaCniaT, rom yvela partias

Tavisi premierobis kandidati

hyavs?

_ Cemi azriT, esec normaluri

ambavia. Cvenc warvadgineT premierobis

kandidati. is Salva naTelaSvilia.

Zalian soliduri wardgena

gvqonda. yvelaferi lamazad

gavakeTeT.

_ Tqven mogewonaT, magram

„qarTuli ocnebis” wevrebma da

momxreebma mxreebma amaze magrad ixalis-

es.

_ raRacebi mec movismine da

erT gacveTil frazas vityvi maTze:

eseni arian Semodgomis buzebiviT

da mwared ikbinebian. Semodgomis

buzis kbena saSiSi araa,

radganac Semodgomis buzisTvis

modis zamTari. amaTTvisac mova

politikuri zamTari. samagierod,

ìvaniSvilisgan kargs arafers unda elodos

kaci. korona rom ifeTqebda, amas maSin

mivxvdi, kojris tyeSi qocebis maJoritarebis

wardgenaze infeqcionistebi rom davinaxe.

rogorc ki maT saxeebs movkari Tvali, gulma

reCxi miyo da vTqvi, rom xvalidan daiwyeba

koronainficirebulebis rekorduli mateba-

meTqi. ise agixdaT yvelaferi kargi, rogorc

Cemi winaswarmetyveleba axda. mjera, rom

korona arsebobs, magram ar mjera, rom amdeni

adamiani dainficirda~

CvenTvis modis politikuri gazafxuli.

_ TqvenTvis ki modis politikuri

gazafxuli, magram qvey-

nisTvis rodis mova gazafxuli?

_ am Semodgomaze mova politikuri

gazafxuli. roca vambob

CvenTvis, vgulisxmob xalxsac da

qveyanasac. „qarTul ocnebas” rom

gavuSvebT, qveyana nel-nela

dadgeba fexze. yvela kargi saqme

mercxlis WikWikiviT iwyeba. mercxlis

WikWiks ki gazafxuli mosdevs

xolme. eWvi ar mepareba, rom

es gazafxuli noemberSi dadgeba.

_ ratom xarT aseTi darwmu-

nebuli?

_ imitom, rom saarCevno sistema

proporciulTan maqsimalurad

miaxloebuli gaxda. aseTi sistemiT

Catarebuli arCevnebi Zalian

Sedegiani iqneba. rac mTavaria,

feodalebad qveuli maJoritarebi

regionebSi adamianebs veRar

iyidian. fuliani tomrebis, yidvamosyidvisa

da daxlis vaWrebis

dro warsuls CavabareT.

_ 30 maJoritari xom darCa,

isini ver iyidian?

_ Seecdebian, magram sad 73 da

sad 30 maJoritari. sazogadoebac

da mec am arCevnebs didi imediT

velodebiT.

_ aris varaudi, rom es

arCevnebi gadaideba da koronain-

ficirebulTa raodenobis zrda

swored amis winapirobaa. amaze

ras ityviT?

_ ivaniSvilisgan kargs arafers

unda elodos kaci. korona rom

ifeTqebda, amas maSin mivxvdi,

kojris tyeSi qocebis maJoritarebis

wardgenaze infeqcionistebi

rom davinaxe. rogorc ki

maT saxeebs movkari Tvali, gulma

reCxi miyo da vTqvi, rom xvalidan

daiwyeba koronainficirebulebis

rekorduli mateba-meTqi. ise agixdaT

yvelaferi kargi, rogorc

Cemi winaswarmetyveleba axda.

mjera, rom korona arsebobs,

magram ar mjera, rom amdeni adamiani

dainficirda. CemTvis cota

gaugebari da miuRebelia koroniT

dainficirebulTa vinaobis

damalva. kidev uamravi gadamdebi

daavadeba arsebobs, magram arc

daavadebulebi da arc eqimebi ar

malavdnen diagnozs. Cemi azriT,

es imitom aris gasaidumloebuli,

rom roca rogor moundebaT, imden

inficirebuls daasaxeleben.

es yvelaferi arCevnebs ukavSirdeba.

undaT, maqsimalurad daamZimon

situacia, SezRudon arCevnebze

ucxoel damkvirvebelTa daswreba.

saqoceTs Zalian aSinebs

ucxoeli damkvirveblebi. isini

darRvevebze Tvals ar daxuWven.

arc adgilobrivi damkvirveblebi

axatia gulze ivaniSvils.

iseT viTarebas Seqmnian, rom adgilobrivi

damkvirveblebic veRar

gaZleben saarCevno ubnebze. yvelanairad

SezRudaven da xels

SeuSlian muSaobaSi.

arc imas gamovricxav, rom

sadRac 20 oqtombridan daiwyos

inficirebulTa raodenobis kleba.

arCevnebis wina dRes gamogvicxadeben,

naxeT, ra magari

biWebi varT, koronis meore tal-

Rac davamarcxeT da saqarTvelo

gadavarCineTo. imasac daamateben,

rais daviT aRmaSenebeli modiT

da Cvenze iloceTo.

_ sadac saCxere gaxades

saqarTvelosTvis sasurvel mod-

elad, iq gaxaria aRmaSeneblad

gamoacxadon, ra gasakviria.

_ gaxaria aRmaSeneblobas araviTar

SemTxvevaSi ar moindomebs,

amaSi 100%-iT var darwmunebuli.

_ aRmaSenebels ras uwunebs

premieri?

_ aRmaSenebels arafers uwunebs,

magram kargad icis, rom am

tituls biZina ivaniSvili aravis

dauTmobs. amitom gaxaria Wyondidelobas

ufro dasTanxmdeba.

_ ratom dasTanxmdeba Wyon-

didelobas, raki giorgi hqvia?

_ Tundac, magitom. aRmaSeneblad

gamocxaddeba biZina, romlis

gakeTebulma dendrologiurma

parkma Sva axali klasteri. amas

ar axmaureben. samagierod, ar gamovricxav,

rom leiboristebs

dagvabralon raime klasteris

Seqmna.

_ Tqven ratom unda dagabral-

on klasteris Seqmna?

_ opozicia xom Cvens ofisSi

ikribeboda, es dRemde ver mounelebiaT.

ar SercxvebaT imis Tqma,

rom viRac am Sexvedraze dainficirda.

iseTebi daubralebiaT

CvenTvis, amasac gadavitanT. Zalian

saintereso movlenebi gvelis:

„qarTuli ocneba” arCevnebis win

koronas karts gaiTamaSebs, rac

aranair Sedegs ar gamoiRebs. xalxi

ukve kargad xvdeba, rom aferistobasTan

aqvs saqme. yvela sirTulis

miuxedavad, mjera, rom

opozicia arCevnebSi gaimarjvebs

da saqarTvelos eyoleba koaliciuri

mTavroba. bevri saqme iqneba

gasakeTebeli. sfero araa dar-

Cenili, sadac situacias gamosworeba

ar sWirdeba. sporti rom

sportia, isic kriminaluri garCevebis

adgilad aqcies. TiTqos

quCis kriminali ar gveyofoda.

amas wertili unda davusvaT. erT

Tvec gaviWirvoT da noembridan

yvelaferi Seicvleba.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

27

ise, mxolod qalbatoni lela

ki ara, mTeli saqarTvelo

naTlad xedavs, rom am qveyanas,

rogorc ityvian, deda aRar

hyavs, Tumca amis miuxedavad,

„ocneba” siraqlemis pozicias

irCevs, e. i., TvalSi nacars mxolod

Cven ki ara, Tavadac iyris

da amtkicebs, rom yvelaferi

kargadaa, anu arc lari gaufasurebula

da epidviTarebac

kontrols eqvemdebareba. kargi,

davuSvaT, rom epidemia mar-

Tlac kontrols eqvemdebareba,

magram lars ra movuxerxoT? _

Tu am kiTxvas romelime „qocs”

dausvamT, igi ar daibneva da

irakli kobaxiZis frTian frazas

mogaxliT, _ lars Tanadgoma

sWirdeba da mere lari ekonomikas

iqiT daexmarebao.

mokled, kobaxiZe ocnebobs,

lela jejelava ki qveyanaSi

arsebul realobas ase asaxavs:

„mSieri monebi aSenebdnen piramidebso,

wers qarTveli mwerali.

bavSvobidan gamudmebiT

vukirkitebdi am azrs, naxevari

saukunis Semdeg zustad vici,

rom yvelaze saxifaTo maZRari

monaa. msoflios istorias qmnidnen

idealistebi, mSieri monebi

maT ideebs axorcielebdnen,

maZRar monebs ki sZuldaT erTnic

da meorenic...

giliotinebisa da eSafotebis

gziT iara evropulma

demokratiam, rom maZRari monis

fenomeni daeZlia. maZRari monebis

mxardaWeraze dgas ivaniSvilis

xelisuflebac. arsad,

arc erT droSi, arc erTi xelisuflebisTvis

maT zianis

garda araferi moutaniaT! ase-

Tia istoriuli kanonzomiereba,

romelic, yvelafris miuxedavad,

ucvlelia!”

mokled, vin arian maZRari

monebi? ratom ar unda daamyaros

imedi „ocnebam” eklesiis

administraciis gadawyvetilebebze?

ratom aris xelisuflebis

cvlileba gardauva-

li? _ am da bevr sxva kiTxvaze

pasuxs lela jejelavas winam-

debare interviudan miiRebT!

_ qalbatono lela, rogor

brZandebiT, arCevnebamde erTi

TviT adre rogori ganwyoba

gaqvT? sxvaTa Soris, vidre intervius

daviwyebdiT, „rusTavi

2-ma” axali kvleva gamoaqve-

yna, romlis mixedviTac, yvela

maJoritarul olqSi „ocnebis”

kandidati upirobod lider-

obs...

_ aba, sxva ra molodini gqondaT?

_ „rusTavi 2" Tu „imedi”

sxvanair kvlevas gamoaqveynebs?

Cemi azriT, am kvlevebs arsebi-

Ti mniSvneloba arc aqvs.

_ SeiZleba, magram vaRiaroT,

rom opoziciis mier Cata-

rebuli kvlevebiTac „ocneba”

28


ìvaniSvilis xelisufleba

„epidemia mainc gaiqca, ekonomi-

giorgi abaSiZe

ka daiqca, krizismenejmenti waiq-

ca. rogorc amboben, imedi kvdeba

bolos Tu ocneba?” _ es ritorikuli kiTxva ramdenime dRis

winaT socialur qselSi „eTnikur da konfesiur urTierTo-

baTa centris” xelmZRvanelma, lela jejelavam dasva.

liderobs.

_ diax, magram, jamurad,

opozicias xmebis mainc meti

raodenoba aqvs.

_ e. i., darwmunebuli xarT,

rom am arCevnebs „ocneba” waag-

ebs da xelisuflebaSi mesame

vadiT veRar darCeba?

_ me erT rameSi var darwmunebuli.

_ raSi?

_ demokratiul qveynebSi

mmarTvelobis, maqsimum, rvawliani

cikli tyuilad araa Semo-

Rebuli. sxvaTa Soris, es mxolod

politikuri axireba araa da

Zalian bevri aqtoriT aris ga-

Tvaliswinebuli, anu rva weli

is maqsimumia, roca xelisuflebis

resursi iwureba. aqve, imasac

getyviT, rom resursSi

mxolod xalxis mxardaWeras ki

ara, politikur SesaZleblobebsac

vgulisxmob. amasTan,

arc is unda dagvaviwydes, rom

8 weli is periodia, roca eleqtorati

sruliad icvleba da

gadaxalisdeba.

_ anu?

_ arCevnebSi monawileobas

sruliad sxva Taoba iRebs _

wels 2000-ian wlebSi dabadebulebmac

unda miscen xma. es

Taoba ki situacias absoluturad

sxva parametrebiT, ganwyobiTa

da, rogorc ityvian, markerebiT

afasebs. mokled, politikisTvis

8-wliani ciklis Semdeg

xelisuflebis Secvla gardauvali

kanonzomierebaa. iciT,

es rogoraa? _ zog mcenares

yvavilobis vada erTi weli aqvs,

zogs _ meti, anu politikaSic

yvelaferi bunebriv potencialzea

damokidebuli da ara

imaze _ vinme mogvwons Tu ara.

erTi sityviT, diax, darwmunebuli

var, rom „ocnebis” xelisufleba

Seicvleba! yovel

SemTxvevaSi, rvawliani ciklis

Semdeg politikuri cvlilebebisTvis

yvela pirobaa momwifebuli.

am politikuri cvlilebebis

gansaxorcieleblad eleqtoratic

mzadaa da, Sesabamisad,

arCevnebis beds ukve sxva

maxasiaTeblebi ganapirobebs.

_ qalbatono lela, es politikuri

algoriTmi gasagebia,

magram arsebobs erTi „ma-

gram”, anu opozicia, rbilad

rom vTqvaT, sustia. yovel Se-

mTxvevaSi, „antiocnebelebi”

erTmaneTs ki ar kortnian, ara-

med, Wamen da TiTqmis yvela

liders premierobis ambicia

aqvs. yvelaferi es, dameTanxmeT,

eleqtoratze cudad mo-

qmedebs da adamianebi amboben

kidec, amaT koaliciuri mTav-

roba rom Seqmnan, erTmaneTis

Wamas gadahyvebian da qveyanas

mainc araferi eSvelebao...

_ amixseniT, arCevnebis bedi

iman ratom unda ganapirobos,

magaliTad, saakaSvilsa da bokerias

erTmaneTi moswonT Tu

ara? marTla ggoniaT, rom xalxisTvis

saakaSvil-bokerias an

nebismieri sxva politikosebis

urTierTdamokidebuleba ufro

mniSvnelovania, vidre _ gaufasurebuli

lari, xelidan

gaqceuli epidemia, Camoqceuli

ekonomika da waqceuli krizismenejmenti?

_ cxadia, ar mgonia, rom

xalxs gaufasurebul larze

metad saakaSvil-bokerias kinklaoba

ufro ainteresebs, ma-

gram bolo dros ramdenime

regionSi viyavi da mosaxleoba

yvelgan erTsa da imaves am-

bobs _ politikosebis aRar

gvjera da aRarc magaTi da-

pirebebis mosmena gvindao, anu,

qalbatono lela, gamoricx-

avT, rom 31 oqtombers xalxma

arCevani e. w. SeCveuli Wiris

principiT gaakeTos?

_ xalxis ganwyobas, rasakvirvelia,

mec vecnobi da vici,

rom adamianebi Zalian cud mdgomareobaSi

arian, magram xalx-

lela jejelava:

`koronas

adamianebis

sikvdili ar

unda, korona

elitebs erCis!~

ma isic icis, rom am mdgomareobamde

swored „ocnebis” xelisuflebam

miiyvana. es faqtia,

romelic gadaxedvas ar eqvemdebareba!

diax, xelisuflebas

ukve aRar Seswevs unari, rom

problemebs gaumklavdes! gasagebia,

rom adamianebs imedi aRar

aqvT, magram ratom ggoniaT,

rom amis gamo gulze xels daikrefen

da cvlilebebs ar moindomeben?

_ SeiZleba, gulze xeli ar

daikrifon, magram arCevnebs

boikoti gamoucxadon. es ki,

bunebrivia, „ocnebis” wisqvil-

ze daasxams wyals. vcdebi?

_ diax.

_ ratom?

_ axalgazrdebi arCevnebze

aucileblad mivlen. es amomrCevlis

patara raodenoba araa

da 31 oqtombers arCevnebis

beds swored axalgazrdebi gadawyveten!

_ keTili, magram Tuki ise

moxda, rom raRac maqinaciebiT

„ocneba” xelisuflebaSi mesame

vadiTac darCa, Tqveni azr-

àrCevnebSi monawileobas sruliad sxva Taoba

iRebs - wels 2000-ian wlebSi dabadebulebmac

unda miscen xma. es Taoba ki situacias

absoluturad sxva parametrebiT, ganwyobiTa

da, rogorc ityvian, markerebiT afasebs.

mokled, politikisTvis 8-wliani ciklis Semdeg

xelisuflebis Secvla gardauvali

kanonzomierebaa~

iT, ra moxdeba?

_ aseTi SemTxvevaSi is moxdeba,

rac „ocnebisTvis” imaze

uaresi iqneba, vidre xelisuflebis

arCevnebiT daTmobaa!

_ revolucias prognozi-

rebT?

_ ar vici, amas revolucia

daerqmeva, ajanyeba Tu xalxis

TviTgadarCenis instinqti, magram

xelisufleba mSieri xalxis

pirispir aRmoCdeba! mSieri

xalxis pirispir aRmoCenas ki

iseTi xelisuflebisTvisac ver

visurveb, rogoric „qarTuli

ocnebaa”.

_ zogierTi miiCnevs, rom

„ocnebas” koronis imedi aqvs _

xalxs, pandemiis sababiT, fuls

urigebs, amasTan, lokalur

lokdaunebsac iyenebs. ai, ma-

galiTad, baTumi Caiketa, anu

yvelaferi es xelisuflebis

wisqvilze ar daasxams wyals?

_ Tu ar meSleba, gia xuxaSvilma

Tqva, xelisufleba qevyanas

sikvdilisa da SimSilis Si-

SiT marTavso, magram ase didxans

aravis umarTavs, anu roca

Seni saukeTeso mokavSire SimSili

da sikvdilia, yvelaze didi

safrTxis qveS Tavad dgaxar!

_ ratom?

_ pasuxi martivia: adamianebs

arc SimSili uyvarT da arc _

sikvdili! Sesabamisad, „ocnebisTvis”

cudi arCevani iqneba,

Tu gadawyvets, rom mokavSired

sikvdilisa da SimSilis SiSi

gaixados!

_ e. i., „ocneba” fons verc

200 Tu 300-lariani koronadax-

marebiT gava?

_ fasebi yovelwuTierad

izrdeba da am viTarebaSi Tundac

300-lariani daxmareba

ojaxs ramden xans eyofa?

_ e. i., gazafxulisgan gansxvavebiT,

dRes korona „oc-

nebis” mTavari mokavSire

aRaraa?

_ diax, aRaraa! „ocnebaze”

uari koronamac Tqva! xelisuflebas

ki gansakuTrebiT lari

_ qarTuli erovnuli valuta

erCis!

28 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


maZRari monebis mxardaWeraze dgas!~

_ me rom „qoci” viyo, auci-

leblad SegekamaTebodiT da

getyodiT, rom lari „ocnebas”

ar erCis. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

ekonomikis ministr, qalbaton

Turnavas rwmeniT, erovnuli

valuta iseTi myari, rogoric

axlaa, arasodes yofila.

_ simarTle giTxraT, qalbaton

Turnavas fiqrebze komentaris

gakeTeba Zalian Znelia.

_ ratom?

_ 2012 wels, roca „nacionaluri

moZraobis” Semwirveli

iyo, qalbatoni Turnava, albaT,

fiqrobda, rom „nacionaluri

moZraoba” gaimarjvebda. amitom

mis fiqrebze komentari Cemgan

cota uxerxulia. saerTod, mas

SeuZlia, bevri ram ifiqros,

magram realuri suraTi aseTia

_ ekonomika, praqtikulad,

Camoqceulia. adamianebi SimSilis

zRvarze arian da Tu

laris vardna ase gagrZelda, es

zRvari, rasakvirvelia, gadailaxeba.

amasTan, kidev Zalian bevri

saSinao Tu sagareo garemoeba

mniSvnelovan rols iTamaSebs,

rom „ocneba” xelisuflebaSi

veRar darCes da es

kanonzomieri iqneba!

_ ra amis pasuxia da, am

dReebSi, sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

gendireqtorad bord-

ma „ocnebis” favoriti airCia.

xaTuna lagaziZe, romelic gendireqtorobis

erT-erTi kan-

didati iyo, am arCevnebs 31

oqtombris repeticiad miiC-

nevs. qalbatono lela, am azrs

Tqvenc iziarebT?

_ iluzia ar mqonia, rom sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis direqtoris

arCevnebi gansxvavebuli

iqneboda, anu xelisufleba,

winamorbedebis msgavsad, am

SesaZleblobas ar gauSvebda.

sxvaTa Soris, zviad gamsaxurdias

xelisuflebis rRveva swored

iqidan daiwyes, roca televizias

TanamSromlebisTvis

arasasurveli direqtori dauniSnes.

mokled, yvela xelisufleba

cdilobs, rom sazogadoebrivi

mauwyebeli, ase vTqvaT,

Tavis ubeSi hyavdes, magram roca

dasasruli modis, es televizia

romelime xelisuflebas

adgeba?

_ geTanxmebiT, rom ar adge-

ba, magram sxva ram gkiTxeT,

anu sazmaus gendireqtoris

arCevis scenars „ocneba” 31

oqtombersac xom ar gamoiy-

enebs?

_ „ocnebis” gayalbebul da

Zaladobriv arCevnebs legitimurad

aravin cnobs! sxvaTa

Soris, amaze „ocnebam” evropasa

Tu aSS-sgan uamravi gafrTxileba

miiRo.

_ ise, amerikeli kongresme-

nebi bolos dros maincdamainc

aRar aqtiuroben...

_ maT Zalian mniSvnelovani

gancxadeba gaakeTes.

_ kerZod?

_ qalbaton degnans yuradRebiT

mousmineTo. saerTod, aSSs

saqarTveloSi Zalian Zlieri

diplomati hyavs, romelic aq

`xelisuflebas iseTi masStaburi testireba, rogorsac axla atarebs, Tavis

droze rom Caetarebina, maSinac sxva maCveneblebi gveqneboda, magram, pirvel

etapze, xelisuflebam masobriv testirebaze uari imitom Tqva, rom imiji

Seeqmna, TiTqos pandemias Tavi kargad gaarTva. albaT, gaxsovs, qveynis

SigniTa Tu gareT rogori Sefasebebi keTdeboda, ai, batoni gaxaria

warmatebuli menejeri aRmoCndao~

mimdinare politikur procesebze

zust informacias araCveulebrivad

flobs. elCis gancxadebebi

imis srul safuZvels

maZlevs, vifiqro, rom Cveni partniori,

anu aSS, Zaladobriv

da gayalbebul arCevnebs ar

aRiarebs. sxvaTa Soris, inauguracia

konspiraciulad lukaSenkomac

Caatara, magram es imas

ar niSnavs, rom xelisuflebaSi

didi dRe aqvs, anu roca mmarTveli

inauguracias konspiraciulad

atarebs, es imas niSnavs,

rom is dasrulebulia!

_ principSi, asea... qalbatono

lela, weRan korona axsen-

eT, Tqveni azriT, „ocnebis”

sanaqebo krizismenejmenti sad

gaqra da ratom CamoiSala, anu

pandemiis marTvis sadaveebi

ratom gaeqca?

_ xelisuflebas iseTi mas-

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

Staburi testireba, rogorsac

axla atarebs, Tavis droze rom

Caetarebina, maSinac sxva maCveneblebi

gveqneboda, magram, pirvel

etapze, xelisuflebam masobriv

testirebaze uari imitom

Tqva, rom imiji Seeqmna,

TiTqos pandemias Tavi kargad

gaarTva. albaT, gaxsovs, qveynis

SigniTa Tu gareT rogori Sefasebebi

keTdeboda, ai, batoni

gaxaria warmatebuli menejeri

aRmoCndao. magram sayovelTao

Termoskriningze, anu sicxis masobriv

gazomvaze axlac meRimeba.

_ ratom?

_ TiTqos xalxs imis Sesa-

Zlebloba ar hqonda, rom sicxe

saxlSi gaezoma. erTi sityviT,

Tavidanve realur Sedegs masobrivi

testireba aCvenebda, magram,

albaT, gaxsovT, opozici-

`2012 wels, roca `nacionaluri moZraobis~

Semwirveli iyo, qalbatoni Turnava, albaT,

fiqrobda, rom `nacionaluri moZraoba~

gaimarjvebda. amitom mis fiqrebze komentari

Cemgan cota uxerxulia. saerTod, mas

SeuZlia, bevri ram ifiqros, magram realuri

suraTi aseTia - ekonomika, praqtikulad,

Camoqceulia. adamianebi SimSilis zRvarze

arian da Tu laris vardna ase gagrZelda, es

zRvari, rasakvirvelia, gadailaxeba~

is gancxadebas, sakmarisi testebi

ar ariso, ra Sefasebac mohva

_ am gancxadebis gamo opozicia

lamis jvars acves, magram

rogorc ki masobrivi testireba

daiwyo, inficirebulTa

raodenobamac geometriuli

progresiiT daiwyo zrda.

_ sxvaTa Soris, masobrivi

testireba, mgoni, aRar tarde-

ba.

_ diax da, rogor fiqrobT,

es swori menejmentia?

_ albaT, ara... erTi sityviT,

koronis SiSiT „ocneba” mosax-

leobaze zegavlenas veRar

moaxdens, ara?

_ rasakvirvelia, veRar

moaxdens... rogorc Cans, am viruss

adamianebi, xSir SemTxvevaSi,

albaT, ufro msubuqad

gadaitanen, magram jandacvis

sistemam amden SemTxvevas Tavi

rom ver gaarTvas, es ukve kolafsi

iqneba! testireba swored

amitom Sewyvites da iciT, es

ra aris? _ mxolod mosaxleobas

ki ara, sakuTar Tavsac

atyueben, magram mosaxleoba ar

tyuvdeba!

_ qalbatono lela, ra amis

pasuxia da, rogor fiqrobT,

„ocnebis” sasargeblod sapa-

triarqoc xom ar CaerTveba

winasaarCevno kampaniaSi? sxva-

Ta Soris, ramdenime dRis win

mmarTveli gundis partiul

RonisZiebas, romelic imereT-

Si gaimarTa, sasuliero pire-

bi daeswrnen...

_ CemTvis sruliad cxadia,

rom orive institucias _ xelisuflebasa

da eklesiis

mmarTvel struqturasac _ seriozuli

problemebi aqvs. amitom

isini erTmaneTTan TviTgadarCenis

instinqtma miiyvana,

Tumca piradad me, xelisuflebis

adgilas rom viyo, eklesiis

gadawyvetilebebTan dakavSirebiT

imedianad ar viqnebodi!

_ erTsac gkiTxavT, qalbatono

lela: lari ufasurdeba,

produqti Zvirdeba, krimi-

nali imatebs, anu yvelaferi es

imas niSnavs, rom warsulSi, e.

i., 90-ianebisken vbrundebiT?

_ situaciis ase daxasiaTeb-

is winaaRmdegi var!

_ es xom realobaa da

winaaRmdegi ratom xarT?

_ warsulSi veravin dabrundeba!

marTalia, yvelas saxlSi

saaTi erTsa da imave dros

aCvenebs, TiToeuli Cvengani,

ufro sworad, Cven da xelisufleba,

mainc sxvadasxva droSi

vcxovrobT.

_ anu?

_ mokled, 90-ian wlebSi ver

davbrundebiT! 2020 weli mosaxleobisTvis,

bevri mizezis gamo,

arcTu sasiamovnod mosagonari

iqneba, magram, Cemi varaudiT,

es weli imiT dasruldeba,

rom epidemia msofliosTvis aseTi

saSiSi aRar iqneba da amas-

Tan, bevr qveyanaSi mmarTveli

elita Seicvleba! erTxel vTqvi

da axlac gavimeoreb: koronas

adamianebis sikvdili ar unda,

korona elitebs erCis!

_ es rogor?

_ imis Tqma minda, rom elitaTa

cvlilebebi namdvilad

moxdeba da 2020 welic istoriaSi

swored amiT darCeba!

_ qalbatono lela, opti-

mizmi kargia, magram simarTle

giTxraT, ver vxvdebi, Tqveni

optimizmi ras efuZneba?

_ jer erTi, safuZveli ar

maqvs, pesimisturad viyo ganwyobili.

meorec, Cven warsulSi

ki ara, axla vcxovrobT. is vi-

Tareba, romelic axlaa, ar

mogvwons, magram dRevandeli

dRe xval ukve warsuli iqneba.

_ ki batono, magram sanam

dRevandeli dRe warsuli

gaxdeba, ra vqnaT, anu realo-

ba rogor SevcvaloT?

_ imisTvis, rom dRevandeli

dRe, romelic ar mogvwons da

gvinda, rom xval aRar iyos da

SevcvaloT, ukeTesi molodini

unda gvqondes! yovel dRes aq

da axla vqmniT. amitom dRes

Cveni gakeTebuli arCevani Cvensave

xvalindel dRes ganapirobebs!

_ geTanxmebiT, magram mSier

xalxs yvelafer amis gasagebad

nervebi aRar hyofnis, qalba-

tono lela...

_ zedmeti filosofia mSieri

xalxisTvis ki ara, saerTod aravisTvis

araa saWiro! adamianebi

gadawyvetilebas imis mixedviT ki

ar iReben, ra ician, aramed imis

mixedviT, rasac dRes grZnoben!

imaze, rasac dRes xalxi grZnobs,

warmodgena gvaqvs. amitomac 31

oqtombris Semdeg cvlilebebi

aucilebad iqneba!

_ vnaxoT... cvlilebebis saw-

inaaRmdego,

bunebrivia,

araferi maqvs.

_ erT rameSi dameTanxmeT.

_ raSi?

_ cvlileba yvelas unda, magram

ambobs, is da es ar momwonso.

amis miuxedavad, faqtia:

raki yvelani vTanxmdebiT, rom

cvlileba aucilebelia, es cvlileba

namdvilad moxdeba!

_ politikurma RmerTebma

inebon, rom cvlilebebi mar-

Tlac moxdes! warmatebas gi-

survebT, qalbatono lela!

29


Tamar mayaSvilis politikuri gegmebi

msaxiobi Tamar mayaSvili poli-

giorgi sakaruli

tikaSi modis da is saparlamento

555 42 42 81

arCevnebSi sakanonmdeblo orga-

nos mandatisTvis damoukideblad

ibrZolebs. ambobs, rom wlebis manZilze xedavs erTsa da imave

xalxs da ubnisTvis, qalaqisTvis sasikeTo araferi keTdeba.

gadawyvetileba erTi mizeziT miiRo is Seecdeba, daamsxvri-

os stereotipi, „arCevnebs fuli igebs”. „saburTaloze, Cems

ubanSi, 61 nomriT upartiod, damoukideblad viyri kenWs.

mjera, rom davamsxvrev stereotips TiTqos arCevnebs fuli

igebs. me amis ar mjera. naxavs yvela, rom imiT gamoval, ri-

Tac Seval, mTavari principulobaa.

movdivar ufulod da upartiod.

movdivar gulwrfeli adamianebisTvis,

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rad mzad arian cvlilebebisTvis.

yovelgvar dafinansebul saarCevno

kampaniaze uars vambob. sabur-

Taloelebi aqcents fulze ki

ara, Rirebulebebze akeTeben”, _

uTxra „qronika+~-s Tamar mayaS-

vilma.

_ qalbatono Tamar, ratom

gadawyviteT awyviteT politikaSi mosvla?

Tqveni es nabiji, mgoni, yvelas-

Tvis moulodneli iyo.

_ TiTqmis yvelasTvis. sul vambobdi,

rom adamians bevri fiqris

dro ar unda hqondes. es xumrobiT,

magram 3 Tvis manZilze viweqi,

fexze problema mqonda da televizors

iZulebiT vuyurebdi. kiTxva

ar SeiZleboda, amitom 24 saaTi

sainformacio mqonda CarTuli. am

yvelaferma ise CamiTria, rom politikuri

ambebiT davinteresdi.

aqamde Tu ar vicodi, vin iyo Cveni

qveynis premier-ministri, axla vici.

erT mSvenier dRes daido informacia,

rom saburTaloze ar

aris maJoritari deputati da xumrobiT

vTqvi, rom xom ar wavide

politikaSi-meTqi? Tumca adge da

waxvide, ar aris aseTi martivi. Sesabamisad,

daviwye kiTxva, gavecani

kanonebs da bevri saWiro informacia

miviRe. politikosad aravin

ibadeba da miT umetes, maJoritar

deputatobas ar sWirdeba didi

politikosoba. rasakvirvelia, Tavisi

politikuri orientacia unda

hqondes, magram adamiani, romelic

Suamavalia sakanonmdeblo organosa

da amomrCevels Soris, is Sei-

Zleba iyos mebrZoli. me kidev Cems

TavSi vxedav, rom mebrZoli adamiani

var, qveyanam icis, rom samarTliani

var da bevrma miTxra, Sen xar

iseTi adamiani, rom amas gaitano.

52 welia, saburTaloze vcxovrob,

am wlebis manZilze araferi Secvlila.

adamianebs, romlebsac vir-

CevT, 3 weli da 10 Tve yvelas vaviwydebiT

Cveni problemebianad. mere

isev es kampaniad wodebuli sirbili

da fotosesiebi iwyeba.

xom SeiZleba, weliwadSi erTxel

gamoCndes Seni ubnis deputati

da ikiTxos, Tu ra uWirs xalxs,

riT SeuZlia misi daxmareba. msgavsi

midgoma aravisgan gvigrZnia.

mere davjeqi, davfiqrdi da vTqvi,

_ ratomac ara-meTqi! me var saqar-

Tvelos moqalaqe, vgiJdebi Cems

qveyanaze, Cems qalaqze da modi,

movsinjav am yvelafers-meTqi. es

aris elementaruli: jdebi, swavlob

kanonmdeblobas, saparlamento

regulacias da avtomaturad

xdebi xidi xalxsa da sakanonmdeblo

organos Soris. ilias sityvebs

gavixseneb da vityvi, rom xidCatexilobaa

dRevandel dRes sakanonmdeblo

organosa da xalxs Soris.

Cven vuyurebT mxolod imas, Tu vin

rodis ra gaafuWa, ase movdivarT

mTeli cxovreba da xalxisTvis

araferi keTdeba. arc im politikosebis

mesmis, romlebic amboben,

_ Cven movalT, xelfasebs mogimatebT

da am gaWirvebidan gamoxvalTo.

veranairad gamovalT da ar

mjera aseTi sisuleleebis, radgan

ar SemiZlia, saxlSi mxarTeZoze

wamowolili viyo da viRacis dapirebis

amara vicxovro. ratom

unda daminiSnos xelfasi? wadi da

gainZeri. amitom gadavwyvite, _ me

viqnebi adamiani, romelic gaxdeba

despani da xmamaRla vambob, rom

rogorc ki Seval pirobiTad „cali

kaloSiT” parlamentSi damoukidebel

deputatad, aseve gamoval.

vTqvi, rom me yovelTvis mecleba

Cemi moqalaqeebisTvis da asec iqneba.

mTeli cxovreba isedac miCveuli

var, rom viRacisTvis raRacas

vakeTeb. wyali Camodis, _ Tamara!

raRac gafuWda _ Tamara! ko-

Rom ukbina, _ Tamara! da ratomac

ara?! mogexsenebaT, rom garkveuli

wlebis winaT Cemi qalaqis meezoveoba

mindoda da es iyo absoluturad

gulwrfeli survili, radgan

umuSevrad visxediT mTeli

ojaxi. es rom gaiges, sasacilod ar

eyo aravis, Sen ar unda dagavoo.

da ratom ar unda davgavo _ Cinmedlebi

CamomerTmeva, gvariSvilobas

davkargav Tu ra? rodemde

unda vicxovroT im azrovnebiT,

rom me es ar mekadreba? ratom?

Zalian kargadac mekadreba! ase

rom, gadavwyvite, yvelaferi

TeTri furclidan daviwyo.

_ pirveli nabijebis gadadgma

saidan daiwyeT?

_ daviwye yvelafris garkveva.

mivedi nomer mesame saolqo ubanze,

araCveulebrivi adamiani damxvda

ubnis Tavmjdomare da man miTxra,

_ qalbatono Tamar, saWiro

aris sainiciativo jgufis Camoyalibeba,

radgan Tqven partiidan

ar modixarT da damoukideblad

iyriT kenWso. zogadad, partiulobis

momxre ar var. Seikriba Cemi

xuTi megobari, dawera gancxadeba,

gaviareT ramdenime instancia, CavabareT

da miiRes gancxadeba. Semdeg

saWiro iyo xmebis mogroveba.

dRe da Rame viareT da sakmarisze

meti xma movagroveT. didi gulSematkivroba

vigrZeni xalxisgan. ar

movaduneb arc mosaxleobas da

arc xelisuflebas _ saburTaloelebi

aqtiurad CaerTvebian ubnisTvis

saWiro saqmeebis gakeTeba-

Si, mTavrobas ki aucileblad mouwevs

maTze zrunva. Cems kars eqneba

warwera: „sul mcalia Cemi moqalaqeebisTvis”.

am principiT vcxovrob.

_ ra iqneba Tqveni mTavari da-

pireba?

_ me viqnebi xalxis xma, romelic

yovelTvis gaaJRerebs maT problemebs

sakanonmdeblo organoSi.

_ rogor apirebT carieli xe-

lebiT politikur cxovrebaSi

`52 welia,

saburTaloze

vcxovrob da

araferi

Secvlila~

Cabmas? ar gagiWirdebaT? miT ume-

tes, ukve dawyebulia saarCevno

kampania, qalaqi aWrelebulia ua-

mravi baneriT, Tqveni ki ar momx-

vedria TvalSi. ratom?

_ me ar maqvs imis saSualeba,

rom saxlSi wynarad vijde da banerebi

davbeWdo, rom quCaSi roca

gamoxval, saxeze afarebuli gqondes.

amitom vfiqrob da varRvev im

stereotips, rom iqneb, ufulodac

SeiZleba saqmis keTeba. flaers

imitom ar vbeWdav, rodesac quCa-

Si daarigeb, viRaca aucileblad

Zirs daagdebs da Cems saxeze unda

iaron, es ki namdvilad ar minda da

is quCa mainc Cemi dasalagebeli

iqneba. am stiliT ar vapireb monawileobis

miRebas, uari vTqvi flaerebis

dabeWdvasa da aqamde aprobirebul

aqtivobebze. mxolod

protokolis gamo miwevs plakatis

dabeWdva da sul ramdenimeTi Semovifarglebi.

visi banerebicaa

gakruli, arc erTs ar vuyureb,

radgan Zalian daviRale mTeli cxovreba

erTi da igive saxeebis yurebiT.

Sedegs ver vxedav.

_ parlamentSi dRes sakmaod

bevri msaxiobi da momRerali

gvyavs. am realobidan gamomdinare,

ratom unda endos amom-

rCeveli Tamar mayaSvils?

_ profesiidan gamomdinare mekiTxebiT?

maSin, is miTxariT, ratom

unda vendoT politikoss?

adamiani politikosad ar ibadeba

da swored is msaxiobebi, momRerlebi

rom Sevidnen am parlamentSi,

araferi gaukeTebiaT. risTvis

Sediodnen, Tu arafris Tavi ar

hqondaT? Tavis dasaqnevad? nu

aqnev Tavs, Tu saqmis gamkeTebeli

ar xar. garkveuli wlebis winaT

Zalian bevrma partiam SemomTavaza,

rom maT gundSi vyofiliyavi da

mTel rig dafinansebas Sempirda,

magram uariT gavistumre yvela. ar

minda, viRacis mRaRadebeli viyo,

me neitraluri adamiani var, yvela

momwons da yvelas udides pativs

vcem, magram mikerZoebuloba

ar maxasiaTebs. swored es stereotipi

unda davarRvio, _ Tundac

100 kacidan 20 Tu mainc dainaxavs,

rom saqmis gamkeTebeli var, es

didi bednierebaa.

_ Tqven gaqvT sufTa warsuli

da xalxis Zalian didi siyvaru-

li, Tumca arsebobs konkurencia

da ar geSiniaT?

_ risi unda meSinodes? adamiani

unda iyo gulwrfeli da xalxi

yvelafers xedavs.

_ ra imedebi gaqvT?

_ ar vici, amas dro gviCvenebs.

me dRevandeli dRiT vcxovrob.

erTma Jurnalistma damireka da

aseTi kiTxva damisva: imitom xom ar

gindaT parlamentSi Sesvla, rom es

fulis Sovnis kargi saSualeba

ariso? vupasuxe, _ Tqven iciT ase-

Ti kargi gzebi-meTqi? me Tu umu-

Sevari var, es Cemi problemaa. Tqven

rogor ggoniaT, ar SemiZlia,

TeatrSi mivide da StatSi Cavjde?

magram ar maqvs magis aRarc dro

da aRarc nervi, simarTle rom

giTxraT. biWebi mezrdebian saxl-

Si, viRacisTvis Zalian sul erTia

es yvelaferi, wavlen, gavardebian

da martoebs toveben saxlSi, magram

me ar SemiZlia.

_ am periodSi Zalian bevri

„keTilismsurveli” „kritikosi”

gamogiCndebaT da ramdenad mzad

xarT am oromtrialSi Casab-

melad?

_ weron da ikiTxon. adamiani,

romelic 24 saaTi socialur qsel-

Si zis, e. i. man funqcia dakarga,

ar icis, riT gaixalisos cxovreba.

amas winaT quCaSi erTi qalbatoni

meubneba, ra gacinebso da

mere ise movefere im qals, rom

miTxra _ Sen gaixare, qalbatonoo.

ara uSavs, zogi ras getyvis, zogic

_ ras da rogor SeiZleba, yvelas

pasuxi gasce? _ piriqiT, moefere

da ise gauSvi. me roca karg

xasiaTze ar var, arc telefons

viReb, arc kars vaReb da oTaxSi

viketebi, radgan aravis sWirdeba

Tamar mayaSvili, romelsac zeTi

Camosdis. movsinjav, gamova _ gamova,

ar gamova da Cin-medlebic ar

CamomerTmevas.

_ damarcxebis SemTxvevaSi

gaagrZelebT politikur saqmi-

anobas?

_ aucileblad gavagrZeleb.

ufro mets vimecadineb.

_ ra aris is, rac gansakuTre-

biT gawuxebT?

_ yvelaferi mawuxebs: ubnis

mouvleloba, yofiTi problemebi,

magram yvelaze metad mawuxebs ganaTleba

da kultura. Cven CamovediT

ganaTlebis zRvars qvemoT.

Cveni qveyana saswaulad didi kulturis

matarebeli iyo da gardamaval

procesebSi am yvelafers

morgeba sWirdeba, ar unda vicxovroT

Zvel wlebSi, unda avyveT

Tanamedroveobas, ar SeiZleba

CavrCeT me-11, me-12 saukuneebSi.

_ ojaxis wevrebi rogor Sex-

vdnen Tqvens gadawyvetilebas?

_ sasacilod ar eyoT, magram

Cemi meuRle gia movida da miTxra:

nu usmen nuravis, Sen Tu ginda,

gaakeTeo. mosinje, aravis arafers

arTmev da aravin arafers garTmevso.

gaixaros gia yifSiZem da Cemma

ramdenime megobarma, romlebmac

miTxres, rom Cven raSic gamogadgebiT,

gverdiT dagidgebiTo.

_ ras etyviT Tqvens amomrCev-

els?

_ Cemi saxlis kari yvela moqalaqisTvis

Riaa. arTqmas Tqma

sjobs, arkeTebas _ keTeba da ardajerebas

_ dajereba.

30

30 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


`saxelmwifom gamwira, gaCumebas ar vapireb!~

„iusticiis saxlis xelmZRv-

nene injgia

anelobam 2020 wlis pirvel aprils,

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yofilma TanamSromelma, ivane afciaurma ganacxada. misive

TqmiT, is pandemiis periodSi samsaxuridan usafuZvlod gaaTavisufles.

axla ivane afciauri sakuTari uflebebis aRsad-

genad ibrZvis. rogorc is acxadebs, mas surs daamtkicos, rom

ubralo xalxsac aqvs muSaobisa da sicocxlis ufleba.

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„qronika+~ ivane afciaurs

esaubra:

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dadiodnen, safrTxe

didi iyo, _ aqtiurad da Cveul

reJimSi vmuSaobdiT. ukve martis

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yvela iusticiis saxli da misi

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ar vici, ubralod, erTs getyviT,

Cemi meore ojaxiviT iyo samsaxuri,

mTel codnasa da energias

vdebdi am saqmeSi da Tan

pandemiis dros aseT rames

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

ivane afciauri:

ìusticiis saxlis

xelmZRvanelobam

moralurad

gamanadgura~

mteric ar gaukeTebs adamians.

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minda, mkiTxvelma kargad gaigos,

ra moxda, kargad mixvdes,

rom arafers vamateb. diax, es

Cemi cxovreba iyo da saqmis siyvarulTan

erTad, mTisa da Cemi

kuTxis siyvaruli aTmagad mmatebda

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Tavidan idealuri Sefaseba

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Sefaseba TqvenTvis

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es gaakeTes mizanmimarTulad,

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es iyo Zalian arakompetenturi

da naCqarevi Sefaseba, Tan im

periodSi, rodesac muSaobis gansakuTrebul

reJimze gadavediT

qveyanaSi Seqmnili pandemiis

gamo. rogor daweres Cemi Sefaseba,

rodesac aranairi komunikacia

ar gvqonia?! ar yofila

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var, minda, yvelam gaigos,

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uridan Tqveni ganTavisufleba?

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ori kviriT adre gafrTxilebas.

ase gagvwira am sistemam.

vinc ginda mkiTxos, yvelas

detalurad movuyvebi, ra

moxda! ratom an risTvis, amas

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codnasa da energias vdebdi am saqmeSi da Tan

pandemiis dros aseT rames mteric ar

gaukeTebs adamians. diax, gagvwires! diax,

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saqme idealurad keTdeboda.

iciT, ramdeni kiTxva damigrovda?!

iciT, ra Znelia momavlis

gagrZeleba maSin, rodesac

codniTa da siyvaruliT

aSenebul kedels dagingreven?!

am qveyanaSi dRemde mZvinvarebs

nepotizmi, yvelgan patroni unda

gyavdes, romelic zurgs gagimagrebs.

stresma Zalian cudad

gamxada da klinikaSi viweqi

maRali sicxeebiT. vin aminazRaurebs

moralur zians, am gacdenil

Tveebs?! ar momerideba

amis Tqma da kidev bevrjer vityvi:

gamwires! gaCumebas ar vapireb,

Tu ar gamaCumes da sadme

mipoves, mere araferia gamoricxuli.

_ nepotizmi axseneT. visT-

vis mzaddeboda es adgili?

_ ar vici, xels veravis davadeb

da tyuils ar vityvi, magram

darwmunebuli var, es iyo

winaswar dagegmili saqme, rom

gaveSviT. male naxavT, vis moiyvanen

_ naTesavebs. ubralod, am

etapze Tavi Seikaves Cvens adgilze

vinmes moyvanisgan, radgan

Cven ar gavCumdiT. mTavari SekiTxva

iciT, ra aris? _ qveyanaSi

krizisia? problemaa samuSao

adgilebi? ratom gviSveben

adgilobriv kadrebs da

mohyavT goridan, rusTavidan,

Jinvalidan? maT uxdian xelfass,

mivlinebasa da sastumros

xarjebs unazRaureben. es xdeba

maisidan dRemde. ratom

flangavs iusticiis saxli amxela

Tanxebs, rodesac Cven elementaruli

Semosavlis gareSe

davrCiT?! Cven ukan ojaxebia.

470 lari, rasac viRebdiT, esec

ar SegvarCines da amdeni Tve

amxela Tanxebs flangaven.

rogor muSaobda centri

Cvens dros da ra xdeba axla?

pirveli ianvridan, rodesac

oficialurad iusticiis saxlis

daqvemdebarebaSi gadavediT

da erTwliani xelSekruleba

daido, ratom ar Catarda

treningi? koordinatoric ar

gvyolia, radgan nel-nela lagdeboda

situacia, ivnisSi igegmeboda

testireba, manamde treningebs

velodebodiT da daaCqares,

martis bolos daiwera is

samarcxino da arakompetenturi

Sefaseba da pirvel aprils

gagvaTavisufles.

gagrZeleba 33-e gv.

31


ganaTlebis saministro

ganaTlebis saministro didi

Tamar rostiaSvili

skandalis mijnaze dgas. ar aris

577 10 07 06

gamoricxuli, rom saqarTvelos

skolebSi Sesuli me-8 klasis

qimiis erTaderTi saxelmZRvanelo ukan „gamoixmon”. mizezi

gaxlavT grifirebis konkursis wesebis sruliad darRveviT

Catareba da saxelmZRvanelos me-4-kurseli avtori.

„qronika+~-s qimiis maswavlebelTa

asociaciis Tavmj-

domare, qimiis mecnierebaTa

doqtori, lela metreveli es-

aubreba:

_ ganaTlebis saministros

mier saskolo saxelmZRvaneloebis

grifirebis konkursi

2019 wlis oqtomberSi gamocxadda.

konkursi Catarda me-8

klasze da aseve me-7 klasis zogierT

saxelmZRvaneloze. mogexsenebaT,

qimia saSualo skolebSi

me-8 klasidan iswavleba.

Sesabamisad, Cven grifirebis

konkursze warvadgineT me-8

klasis qimiis saxelmZRvanelo,

anu dadgenil vadaSi davasruleT

saxelmZRvanelos wera da

e. w. grifirebis eleqtronul

sistemaSi avtvirTeT. saxelmZ-

Rvanelo ori wignisgan Sedgeba:

moswavlis wignisgan _ riTac

bavSvi swavlobs da maswavleblis

wignisgan. konkursze wardgenili

iyo qimiis sul eqvsi saxelmZRvanelo,

romlebsac ori

sagnobrivi jgufi amowmebda.

_ ra moxda mas Semdeg, rac

saxelmZRvanelo Sesafaseblad

eqspertebis xelSi gadavida?

_ atvirTvidan garkveuli

drois Semdeg is gadaeca sagnobrivi

recenzentebis jgufs.

_ anu eqspertebs?

_ diax. magram iuridiul

enaze maT sagnobrivi recenzentebi

hqviaT.

_ ramdenkaciania es jgufi?

_ jgufi 6 kacisgan Sedgeba,

aqedan oTxi qimikosia, erTi _

filologi da erTic _ fsiqologi.

oTx qimikoss Soris Tavmjdomare

aris erovnuli saswavlo

gegmis specialisti da

aqve aris dargis mecnieri, aseve

skolis ori maswavlebeli.

_ ra moxda mas mere, rac sax-

elmZRvanelo gansaxilvelad

am jgufs gadaeca?

_ amis Semdeg gamomcemloba,

romelic Cvens wigns gamoscems,

saministrodan iRebs pasuxs,

rom Cven gadavlaxeT meore etapze

gadasasvleli saWiro bar-

32

ieri. informaciisTvis getyviT,

rom meore etapze gadasasvlelad

qulebis 90% mainc unda

moagrovo. meore etapze gadavida

ori saxelmZRvanelo _ Cveni

da amJamad grifirebuli, anu

gasuli wigni. amasTan erTad,

mogvivida Sejerebuli recenzia

oTxive qimikosi eqspertisa,

calke _ fsiqologisa da

filologisa, winaswar dadgenili

kriteriumebis mixedviT.

zogierT kriteriumSi iwereba

qula, zogierTSi ki is, Tu ra

moTxovnebs akmayofilebs an

nawilobriv akmayofilebs an ar

akmayofilebs naSromi. rogorc

ukve aRvniSne, es etapi warmatebiT

gadavlaxeT. Sejerebul recenziaSi

arsebuli SeniSvnebi

wignis avtorebs unda gagvevlo

dargobriv recenzentebTan er-

Tad da srulad unda davTanxmebuliyaviT

an nawilobriv

anda saerTod ar davTanxmebuliyaviT.

SeniSvnebi ki sakmaod

mravalricxovani iyo, Tanac,

erTi da igive SeniSvna mravaljer

meordeboda. iyo aseve

urTierTsawinaaRmdego frazebi,

dabali klasebis standartis

arcodniT gamowveuli mi-

TiTebebi da a. S.

_ am SeniSvnebis mixedviT

unda Casworebuliyo sax-

elmZRvanelo?

_ diax. me Cems TanaavtorTan

erTad didi samuSao gavwie, rom

es SeniSvnebi kategoriebad

dagveyo _ ras veTanxmebodiT

da ras ar veTanxmebodiT. Semdeg

es yvelaferi grifirebis

eleqtronul sistemaSi avsaxeT.

wesis mixedviT, is SeniSvnebi,

romlebsac ar daveTanxmeT,

avtomaturad saCivrad gadaiqca.

saCivars kidev ganixilavs e.

w. saapelacio komisia, romel-

Sic dargis specialists an moiwveven,

an _ ara. da Tu moiwveven,

misi xma mainc ar aris

gadamwyveti. amitom Cven ukan

gamoviTxoveT es saCivari im

imediT, rom sagnobriv eqspertebTan

erTad davsxdebodiT da

movagvarebdiT CvenTvis sadavo

sakiTxebs. rac ar unda iyos,

isini specialobiT kolegebi

arian _ qimikosebi.

_ ra moxda amis Semdeg?

_ amis Semdeg Sedga Cveni pirveli

Sexvedra dargobriv recenzetebTan

im Temebze, romlebsac

veTanxmebodiT. Sexvedris

dros garkveuli sakiTxebi

maTTan SevaTanxmeT: ras gulisxmobdnen

SeniSvnaSi, rogor

sjobda sakiTxis formulireba

da a. S. gvqonda aseve meore Sexvedra,

romelzedac ukve ganvixileT

CvenTvis sadavo sak-

ratom swordeba

saxelmZRvaneloebi

sxvadasxva standartiT?

iTxebi. es garCeva sami saaTi

gagrZelda. am Sexvedris Semdeg

dargobriv recenzentebs unda

SeedginaT oqmi. Semdeg ukve

sxva (Secvlili) recenzia dades

_ zogierTi SeniSvna amoiRes,

zogierTi SeniSvna gamorCaT,

zogierTze ki Tavad Cven daveTanxmeT.

dRes Cven am saubris

audioCanawers ar gvaZleven im

motiviT, rom personalur informacias

Seicavso. arada, rac

iq vilaparakeT da rogorc

SevTanxmdiT, zustad ise CavasworeT

saxelmZRvanelos maketi.

_ da ra, mogatyues?

_ bevri rom aRar gavagr-

ZeloT, dargobriv recenzentebTan

SeTanxmebuli Sesworebuli

maketi saministroSi gavagzavneT.

amaze pasuxi miviReT,

rom SeniSvnebi ar gasworda ise,

rogorc maT igulisxmes, _ ar

aris avTentikurio.

_ gasagebia, anu „gada-

gagdes”?

_ ase gamodis. amis Semdeg

Cveni saapelacio saCivari daiwera

da aqac saapelacio komisiam

Cveni mosazrebebi ar gaiziara.

_ ratom?

_ amaze oqmi gvaqvs, magram iq

konkretulad ar Cans, vin ra da

rogor Tqva. am avTentikurobaze

pasuxSi darRveuli aris yvela

wesi da kanoni. gvaZleven

iseT SeniSvnebs, romlebic winaT

ar yofila gamoTqmuli. xedaven,

rom wigni SevasworeT da

amboben, ar gaasworeso. mokled,

Zalian ucnauri rameebi

weria maT recenziaSi. Semdeg

gancxadebiT mivmarTeT ganaTlebis

saministros, parlamentis

ganaTlebisa da mecnierebis

komitets. gamoviTxoveT

dokumentacia, maT Soris,

konkursSi gamarjvebuli saxelmZRvanelos

Tavdapirvelad

wardgenili maketi, raTa recenzentebis

midgoma Segvedarebina

Cveni da am saxelmZRvanelosadmi,

magram amazec uari

gviTxres im motiviT, rom mas

icavs kanoni saavtoro uflebebis

Sesaxeb. axla ukve gamovida

saxelZRvanelo da wavikiTxeT.

Tumca es wigni rogori Sevida

konkursze, es aris saintereso.

_ ra kuTxiT aris sain-

`gavida TinaTin buTxuzis, sofiko facacias,

marine kuWuxiZisa da Tamar xatisaSvilis

wigni. pirveli sami gaxlavT maswavlebelTa

profesiuli ganviTarebis centris treneri;

marine kuWuxiZe aris quTaisis maswavleblis

saxlis koordinatori; Tamar xatisaSvili

gaxlavT erovnuli saswavlo gegmebis qimiis

jgufis ufros gia xatisaSvilis Svili, da rac

yvelaze sainteresoa, agraruli universitetis

me-4 kursis studenti~

tereso?

_ rogorc giTxariT, Cven

wamogviyenes iseTi SeniSvnebi,

romlebic, pirvel etapze, ar

yofila. anu SeniSvna recenziidan

amoRebulia da am araarsebul

SeniSvnaze gveubnebian, ar

gaiTvaliswineTo. sainteresoa,

aseve miudgnen Tu ara konkretuli

recenzentebi grifirebul

saxelmZRvanelos?

_ yovelive amis gamo Tqvenma

wignma grifireba ver gai-

ara?

_ diax, ver gaiara am e. w. araavTentikurobis

gamo da yvela

es SeniSvna, avTentikuric rom

ar iyos, imdenad umniSvneloa,

rom wigns arc arafers hmatebs

da arc aklebs.

_ fiqrobT, rom saxelmZRv-

anelo Segnebulad Cagigdes?

_ diax, Cveni saxelmZRvanelo

Segnebulad Caagdes, rom bazarze

erTaderTi saxelmZRvanelo

darCeniliyo. magaliTad,

meore jgufma giuli andronikaSvilis

saxelmZRvanelo gaaswora

da iq sityva „siTbotevadobis”

amoReba dargobrivma

eqspertebma ar moiTxoves, imitom

rom misaRebad miiCnies,

xolo me momTxoves amis Casworeba,

_ me-8 klasSi ratom

iyenebTo? Cven mogvweres, rom

wylis qimiuri Tvisebebi araprogramulia,

magram imave giuli

andronikaSvils amis gamo

SeniSvnas ar aZleven. xom ar SeiZleba,

saxelmZRvaneloebi sxvadasxva

standartebiT swordebodes?

me xom ar momiTxovia,

rom maincdamaic am sagnobriv

32 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


didi skandalis mijnaze

jgufSi moxvedriliyo Cemi saxelmZRvanelo?..

_ visi saxelmZRvanelo gavi-

da?

_ gavida TinaTin buTxuzis,

sofiko facacias, marine kuWuxiZisa

da Tamar xatisaSvilis wigni.

pirveli sami gaxlavT maswavlebelTa

profesiuli ganvi-

Tarebis centris treneri; marine

kuWuxiZe aris quTaisis maswavleblis

saxlis koordinatori;

Tamar xatisaSvili gaxlavT

erovnuli saswavlo gegmebis

qimiis jgufis ufros gia xatisaSvilis

Svili, da rac yvelaze

sainteresoa, agraruli universitetis

me-4 kursis studenti.

_ ki magram, rogor SeiZle-

ba, skolis saxelmZRvanelos

avtori iyos adamiani, romel-

sac ar aqvs diplomi?

_ diplomis garda saxelmZRvanelos

dawera moiTxovs Zalian

did praqtikasa da gamocdilebas.

wignis avtorebma oficialurad

gadauxades madloba

konsultaciisTvis studentis

mamas, b-n gia xatisaSvils.

_ ise, mamas unda gadaexada

maTTvis madloba, Svili rom

Causves avtorebSi da finansur

zvinze dasves...

_ rac Seexeba maTi wignis xarisxs,

amaze mTeli rigi qmedebebis

Catarebas vapirebT. grifirebuli

(gasuli) saxelmZRvanelo

yuradRebiT wavikiTxeT.

davwereT recenzia, SevadgineT

cxrili, sadac Sepirispirebuli

aris, raze gvaZleven Cven SeniSvnas

eqspertebi da motanilia

analogiuri adgilebi grifirebuli

saxelmZRvanelodan, romlebic

saerTod Riad aris datovebuli,

anu maT ar aZleven

SeniSvnas. maTi Sesworebebis araavTentikurobas

ar amCneven da

Cvens SemTxvevaSi _ amCneven, Tanac,

sadac ar aris, iqac ki. aRmaSfoTeblad

usamarTlodaa

Catarebuli grifirebis konkursi.

_ qalbatono lela, sasamarTloSi

ukve SeitaneT sar-

Celi?

_ diax, sasamarTloSi ukve

SevitaneT sarCeli. rac mTavaria,

grifirebis konkursi mimdinareobda

ukanonod, vinaidan

Cvens meilze gvigzavnidnen daumtkicebel

sagnobriv standarts,

iq CarTuli iyo sabazo safexurze

me-8-10 klasebi, kanoniT

ki me-10 klass ar Seicavs

sabazo safexuri. saministrom

werilSi standartebis Sesaxeb

mogvwera, maTi cvlileba uaxloes

momavalSi moxdebao. Tu

es asea, maSin erTi wliT adre

ar unda damawerino saxelmZRvanelo

daumtkicebeli standartebis

mixedviT. specialobiT

iuristic var da vfiqrob,

arsebobs samarTlebrivi safuZveli,

rom saerTod gauqmdes

grifirebis konkursis Sedegebi.

2020 wlis 21 Tebervals rom

unda agvetvirTa saxelmZRvanelos

maketi da 21 ianvars miviReT

bolo versia sagnobrivi

standartisa, anu wignis dasrulebamde

erTi TviT adre,

uxeSi darRveva ar aris?! jer

unda damtkicebuliyo standarti

da mere unda gamocxadebuliyo

grifirebis konkursi.

_ am yvelaferze pasuxismge-

beli vin aris saministroSi?

_ grifirebis brZanebas xels

awers Tavad ganaTlebis, mecnierebis,

kulturisa da sportis

ministri, magram ramdenadac CemTvis

cnobilia, misi moadgile

eka dgebuaZe xelmZRvanelobda

grifirebis porcess. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

me Cems gancxadebasTan

dakavSirebiT Semxvdnen eka

dgebuaZe da mariam Ciqobava.

_ ra giTxres?

_ miTxres, rom, albaT, raRac

iyo, Torem es xom ar moxdebodao?

da a. S. mikvirs, ratom

ar gaiTvaliswina Cveni argumentebi

saapelacio komisiam? imas

mainc ver Sexeda, rom erTi SeniSvnis

gamo sam sxvadasxva kriteriumSi

araavTentikurobis

iarliys gvakereben?!

„qronika+“ agrZelebs am Temis

Sesaxeb muSaobas da Semdeg

nomerSi SemogTavzebT korufciul

sqemas grifirebis komisiaSi.

ivane afciauri: ìusticiis saxlis

xelmZRvanelobam moralurad gamanadgura~

31-e gverdidan

_ Tqven garda pandemiis periodSi

sxvebic gaaTavisufles da isini ras

ukavSireben ase dramatulad ganvi-

Tarebul movlenebs?

_ rogorc ukve aRvniSene, fasanauris

sazogadoebrivi centridan 2 TanamSromeli

gagviSves _ me da irine baraTaSvili,

romelmac Cemze erTi wliT adre daiwyo

muSaoba da, Sesabamisad, gamocdili, Tavisi

saqmis mcodne da Zalian kargi menejeri

iyo. ar gaiTvaliswines arc misi

codna da kompetencia da arc is, rom sami

Tvis dabrunebuli iyo dekretuli Svebulebidan

da ori patara bavSvi hyavs.

igive mdgomareobaSia duSeTis sazogadoebrivi

centri, romlis menejeric gaxldaT

Tamar patenko, isic Zalian didi

gamocdilebiTa da profesionalizmiT.

ramdenime sazogadoebrivi centria kidev,

sadac analogiuri SemTxveva dafiqsirda

pirvel aprils TiTqos dagegmilad da

SerCevis principiT. yvelas gvaqvs eWvi,

varaudebi, romelsac aucileblad gavarkvevT,

Tu ra iyo Cveni gaSvebis mizani.

_ mTavari moTxovna ra gaqvT?

_ Cemi mTavari moTxovnebia: Cemi gan-

Tavisuflebis brZaneba baTilad cnon!

Sefaseba baTilad cnon! aminazRauron

moraluri ziani da gacdenili Tveebi!

mTavari mizania, davamtkico simarTle

da erTi adamianisTvis mainc gavxde magaliTi,

rom saxelmwifo struqturaSi

maRal Tanamdebobaze yofna ar aris

berketi, rom yvelas ver moiSoreb, yvelas

ver gaaCumeb, yvelas ver daaSineb!

minda davamtkico, rom ubralo xalxsac

gvaqvs muSaobisa da sicocxlis ufleba!

minda davamtkico, rom Cemi codniT

aSenebul kedels didi Zala aqvs! me

Zalian rTuli cxovreba gaviare, Seu-

Zlebeli SevZeli, rom universitetSi

Camebarebina da Semdeg damemTavrebina,

magistraturis studentic var ukve da

ramdenime dReSi diploms davicav. gaviare

uamravi treningi, proeqti, aviRe

sertifikatebi da iciT, mTavari mizani

ra iyo? _ mizeruli anazRaurebis miuxedavad,

mTa ar dametovebina. mTas davubrudi,

mixaroda Cems xalxTan, Cems

ojaxTan yofna, yoveli dilis gaTeneba

da samsaxurSi wasvla. CemTvis bedniereba

iyo yoveli gaRimebuli da kmayofili

moqalaqe! da ra gaakeTa am sistemam?!

ra gaakeTa iusticiis saxlma?! davijero,

aravis gauCnda kiTxva?! aravin dainteresda

am saqmiT?! ra aris maTi mizani?!

es aris iusticiis saxlis prestiJi?

`Cemi mTavari moTxovnebia: Cemi ganTavisuflebis brZaneba

baTilad cnon! Sefaseba baTilad cnon! aminazRauron

moraluri ziani da gacdenili Tveebi! mTavari mizania,

davamtkico simarTle da erTi adamianisTvis mainc gavxde

magaliTi, rom saxelmwifo struqturaSi maRal

Tanamdebobaze yofna ar aris berketi, rom yvelas ver

moiSoreb, yvelas ver gaaCumeb, yvelas ver daaSineb!~

ubralod, ikiTxeT, Cveni muSaobis dros

ra xarisxi da momsaxureba iyo da SeadareT

axlandels.

_ sasamarTloSi sarCeli SeitaneT

da saqme ra etapzea?

_ Zalian kargi adamianebi gamoCndnen,

romlebic gverdiT dagvidgnen. gvyavs

saukeTeso, profesionali da gamocdili

advokatebi. sarCeli SevitaneT mcxeTis

saqalaqo sasamarTloSi. velodebiT

procesis CaniSvnas. Tu saWiro iqneba,

mTeli regioni mzad aris, xeli moaweros

imis dasturad, rom moswondaT

Cveni momsaxureba da muSaoba, rom undaT

Cveni dabruneba da esec daerTveba

saqmes. gasaTvaliswinebelia, rom moqalaqisgan

arc erTi saCivari ar gvqonia.

da mTavari: maSin, rodesac kerZo struqturebs

mouwodeben, rom pandemiis

dros kadrebi ar gauSvan, ratom gagvwira

iusticiis saxlma sagangebo mdgomareobis,

pandemiis periodSi?! bolos

getyviT, rom es sakiTxi CemTvis Zalian

mtkivneulia. sul vfiqrob _a maTi

qmedeba arc kanonTan aris axlos da

arc gamarTleba aqvs. ra iqneba xval?

vici, bevri waikiTxavs am statias,

bevrs daafiqrebs igi. brZolas yovel-

Tvis aqvs azri, arasdros SevuSindeT

usamarTlobas. diax, me saxelmwifom gamwira

pandemiis periodSi, pirvel aprils,

erTi xelmoweriT. gaCumebas ar

vapireb!

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

33


nanuka JorJolianamde ramdeni Jurnalisti

nanuka JorJolianis maJoritar-

rezo SatakiSvili

obis kandidatad dasaxelebas, ras-

597 94 42 50

ac hqvia, didi mieTmoeTi moyva.

miTqma-moTqma gamoiwviaa im faqt-

ma, rom nanuka JorJolianma im olqebSi (vanis, samtrediis, xonisa

da wyaltubos) generali devi WankotaZe Caanacvla. zogierTma

ivarauda ra generlis ganawyeneba, mis advokatobaze dado Tavi

da ayayanda. cxadia, maTi mizani nanuka JorJolianze Sturmi iyo.

magaliTad, Tamar CergoleiSvilma

kinaRam Tma daiSala da

Talxi Caicva ariqa, devi WaknotaZe

gadaagdeso, magram maleve

Wreli kabis Cacma mouwia _ tragedia

ar Sedga, Tema gaberwda,

devi WankotaZe siaSia da arc wyenisa

etyoba rame.

amis Semdeg ki nanuka JorJolianis

winaaRmdeg ukve mis Jurnalistobasa

da telewamyvanobas

iyeneben da ise abraxuneben

taStebsa da Zirgavardnil „laxankebs”,

gegoneba an aqamde arc

erTi Jurnalisti ar mjdara

parlamentSi, an Jurnalists

ufleba ar hqondes, ginda politikaSi

mosvlis, ginda, parlamentSi

kenWisyris.

yvelafers rom Tavi davaneboT,

dRevandeli, jerac kidev

moqmedi parlamenti, gamotenilia

warsulSi JurnalistebiTa da

wamyvanebiT.

zogs SesaZloa, igive giga bokeria

politikosad an enjeo-

Snikad dabadebuli hgonia, magram

giga bokeria 1992 wlidan eweoda

Jurnalistur saqmianobas _

1992 wels gazeT „Svidi dRis”

Jurnalisti iyo, Semdeg gazeT

„mimomxilvelis” politikis ganyofilebis

redaqtori (1992-93

ww.), muSaobda radioSi da iyo

„pikis saaTis” Jurnalisti (1993

wels), radio „Tavisuflebis” Jurnalisti

(1994), gazeT „argumentis”

politikuri redaqtori

1995-1996 wlebSi, „rusTavi 2-is”

sadiskusio programa „aqcentebis”

wamyvani (1996).

2005-2007 wlebSi sapatriarqos

radios wamyvani iyo parlamentari

zaza gabunia. deputati giorgi

kandelaki ki inglisurenovan

yoveldiur gazeT „24 saaTis”

redaqtoris moadgile (2003-2005

wlebSi). parlamentis vice-spiker

irma inaSvils Jurnalistikis

fakulteti aqvs damTavrebuli

da muSaobda kidec televiziaSi:

1993-2005 wlebSi „pirvel arxze”,

2003 wlidan ki „obieqtivSi”. Jurnalistikis

fakulteti aqvs damTavrebuli

deputat enZela ma-

Wavariansac, romelic 1989-1990

wlebSi gazeT „soflis cxovrebis”

korespondenti iyo, 1990-1992

wlebSi _ gazeT „kabadonis” ganyofilebis

gamge, 1992-95 wleb-

Si „qarTveli eris” redaqtori,

2014-2016 wlebSi telekompania

„jidiesis” mTavari prodiuseri.

deputat giorgi mosiZes samedicino

ganaTleba aqvs da am specialobiT

muSaobda kidec, magram,

paralelurad, 1996 wlidan

iyo avtori da wamyvani gadacemisa

„ra? sad? rodis?”, romelic

sxvadasxva dros, sxvadasxva

arxze gadioda. deputat zurab

WiaberaSvils filosofiis fakulteti

aqvs damTavrebuli, magram

1993-1997 wlebSi sxvadasxva

Tanamdebobaze muSaobda gazeT

„rezonanssa” da gazeT „mimomxilvelSi”.

Jurnalistikis

fakulteti arc deputat irma

nadiraSvils aqvs damTavrebuli,

magram igi, Tavis droze, cnobili

teleJurnalisti iyo _

„rusTavi2-is” korespodenti gaxldaT

1994-2005 wlebSi, 2008-2009

wlebSi gadacema „post skriptumis”

mTavari prodiuseri iyo,

2009-2010 wlebSi sainformacio

samsaxurs xelmZRvanelobda. deputati

erekle tripolski 1995-

2003 wlebSi telekompania „me-9

arxis” gendireqtori iyo, 2004-

2008 wlebSi telekompania „mzeze”

muSaobda, iyo sazogadoebrivi

televiziis sameurveo sabWos

Tavmjdomare (2008), telekompania

„erTsulovnebis” samxatvro

xelmZRvaneli (2009-2011),

telekompania „me-9 arxis” gendireqtoris

mrCeveli (2011-2012).

wlebis manZilze televiziaSi

sxvadasxva poziciaze (redaqtori,

ufrosi redaqtori, ganyofilebis

gamge, mTavari redaqtori)

muSaobda deputati Teimuraz

Wkuaseli. deputati zaza

xuciSvili 2000-2002 wlebSi

musikalur proeqtebs xelmZRvanelobda

„studia maestroSi”,

2008-2010 wlebSi radio „ucnob-

Si” „monkavSiri” mihyavda, 2012-

2013 wlebSi „maestroze” mihyavda

gadacema „pirdapiri saubari”,

2015-2016 wlebSi sazogadoebriv

radioSi „pikis saaTi” mihyavda. am

mowvevis parlamentis wevri iyo

da Semdeg uflebamosileba SeuCerda

(piradi gancxadebis safuZvelze)

oTar Crdilels, romelic

1997-2003 wlebSi iyo gazeT

„alias” Jurnalisti, 2004-2005

wlebSi ki saqarTvelos teleradiomauwyeblobis

korespondenti.

2012-2016 wlebis parlamenti

oTar Crdileli wina mowvevis,

anu 2012-2016 wlebis parlamentis

deputatic iyo, iseve rogorc

giorgi kandelaki, Teimuraz

Wkuaseli, erekle tripolski,

irma nadiraSvili. maT garda

im parlamentSi sxva Jurnalistebic

iyvnen. magaliTad, ani mirotaZe,

romelsac Jurnalistikis

fakulteti aqvs damTavrebuli.

1996-2002 wlebSi gazeT „axali

Taobis” Jurnalisti iyo, 1998-

2000 wlebSi redaqtorobda gazeT

„Tbilisis siaxlens”, 2002-

2003 wlebSi pirvel arxze mihyavda

gadacema „pres-ekrani”, Semdeg

muSaobda telekompania „202"-ze,

Semdeg Tavisi sainfiormacio

saagento hqonda _ „pirveli”.

im mowvevis parlamentis wevri

iyo cnobili Jurnalisti eliso

CafiZe, romelic gazeT „rezonansis”

Jurnalisti da redaqtoris

moadgile gaxldaT 18 wlis

manZilze _ 1994 wlidan 2012

wlamde. bevrs SeiZleba aRarc ki

axsovs, rom giga bokerias msgavsad,

politikosobamde da enjeoSnikobamde,

sami mowvevis

(2004-2008, 2008-2012, 2012-2016)

parlamentari givi TargamaZec

Jurnalisti iyo. givi TargamaZe

qarTulenovani „jorjian Taimsis”

Jurnalisti iyo 1993-1995

wlebSi, gazeT „argumentis” mTavari

redaqtoris moadgile 1994-

95 wlebSi, „dilis gazeTis” Jurnalisti

1995-1996 wlebSi. bevrs

arc is emaxsovreba, rom goka

gabaSvili telegadacema „azris”

avtori iyo 2000-2002 wlebSi. im

mowvevis deputati daviT dar-

CiaSvili ki 1990-1991 wlebSi redaqtorobda

tradicionalistebis

gazeT „qarTvel ers”, 1992-

1993 wlebSi ki saavtoro gadacema

mihyavda „iberviziaze”. deputati

nugzar wiklauri ki gazeT

„Tavisufali saqarTvelos” korespondenti

iyo 1995-1997 wleb-

Si. xolo daviT berZeniSvili

„radio Tavisuflebis” politikuri

mimomxilveli 1998-2003

wlebSi. Jurnalistikidan iyo

goga xaCiZec, romelic 1994 wlidan

moyolebuli muSaobda

saqarTvelos televiziis pirvel

da meore arxebze, „iberviziaSi”,

„rusTavi 2-Si”, „202-Si”, radio

105-Si, radio „rezonansSi”, gazeT

„rezonansSi”... im mowvevis

parlamentis wevri iyo marika verulaSvili,

romelic pirvel

arxze „macnes” korespondenti

gaxldaT 1994-1997 wlebSi.


Jurnalistebi da wamyvanebi

arc manamdel, anu 2008-2012

wlebis parlaments aklda. araTu

aklda, iq, saerTod, calke iyo

warmodgenili Jurnalistebis

partia _ qristian-demokratebis

saxiT. am partiidan iyo magdalina

anikaSvili, romelic dilis

gadacemebis wamyvani iyo jer

„mecxre arxze”, Semdeg „rusTavi

2-ze”, 2006-2008 wlebSi ki „qronika”

da „Ria eTeri” mihyavda „teleimedze”.

amave partias warmoadgenda

giorgi axvlediani, romelic

„teleimedamde” pirvel arxze

muSaobda 1994 wlidan. iyo

„moambis” Jurnalisti, 1997-2000

wlebSi „moambe” mihyavda, Semdeg

_ „alioni”. Semdeg „teleimedis”

Juranlisti da wamyvani iyo 2008

wlamde. amave partias warmoadgenda

teleprodiuseri levan vefxvaZe,

romelic „teleimedamde”

jer „moqalaqeTa kavSiris” presmdivani

iyo, Semdeg TBC-TV studiis

gadacema „ras fiqrobs xalxis”

mTavari konsultanti, Semdeg

sainformacio gadacema „mzeris”

prodiuseri telekompania

„mzeze”, 2003-2008 wlebSi ki

„droebis” priodiuseri „imedze”.

am mowvevis parlamentSi iyo amave

partiis lideri giorgi TargamaZe,

romelic 1992-93 wlebSi

„iberviziaSi” muSdaobda, iyo

diqtori, sainformacio programa

„monitoris” mTavari redaqtori,

1993-95 wlebSi aWaris

damoukidebeli teleradiokompaniis

direqtori, Semdeg, 1995-

97 wlebSi, telestudia „baTumis”

direqtori, 1997-99 wlebSi

xelmZRvanelobda aWaris uzenaesi

sabWos pressamsaxurs, aseve

iyo saqteleradio korporaciis

aWaris ganyofilebis korespondenti,

2003 wlidan „droebis”

wamyvani da arxis sazogadoebrivpolitikuri

programis direqtori.

saqarTvelos teleradio

departamentis sainformacio gadacemebis

wamyvani iyo deputati

giorgi godabreliZec (enm) 1992-

1993 wlebSi. deputati Tamaz diasamiZe

(enm) 1992-1994 wlebSi iyo

gazeTebis _ „Tavisufali sityvisa”

da „qarTuli karibWis” gamomcemeli

da redaqtori.

34

34 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


da telewamyvani iyo deputati?

gansvenebuli nika rurua ki

gazeT „24 saaTis” iuridiuli

eqsperti iyo 2002-2004 wlebSi.

leiboristebis siiT gasuli nugzar

ergemliZe ki aWaris televiziis

prodiuseri 2005-2007 wleb-

Si, 1983-2004 wlebSi ki saqteleradio

komitetSi muSaobda. amave

parlamentis wevrebi iyvnen

zemoT ukve naxsenebi givi TargamaZe,

marika verulaSvili, goka

gabaSvili, daviT darCiaSvili,

giorgi kandelaki, nugzar wiklauri.


am mowvevis parlamentis wevrebi

iyvnen zemoT ukve naxsenebi

nika rurua, goga xaCiZe, givi

TargamaZe, marika verulaSvili,

Tamaz diasamiZe, giga bokeria,

daviT berZeniSvili. maT garda am

mowvevis parlamentis deputati

iyo Jurnalisti van baiburTi,

romelic gaxldaT saqarTvelo-

Si gamomaval somxurenovan gazeT

„vrastanis” redaqtori 1987-

1999 wlebSi, manamde ki gazeT

„sovetski sportis” sakuTari

korespondenti somxeTSi (1967-

1968 ww.), „komsomolecis” ganyofilebis

gamge (1968-1969 ww.), gazeT

„komsomolskaia pravdas” korespondenti

(1969-1974 ww.), moskovis

axali ambebis saagentos sakuTari

korespondenti saqarTveloSi

(1977-1986 ww.).

am mowvevis parlamentari iyo

gansvenebuli nodar grigalaSvili,

romelic, Tavis droze,

redaqtorobda jer „saxalxo

frontis” gazeT „saqarTvelos”,

Semdeg ki mis mierve dafuZnebul

„axal saqarTvelos”.

amave mowvevis parlamentis

wevri brZandeboda vasil maRlaferiZe,

romelic iyo gazeT

„kavkasionis” damfuZnebeli da

mTavari redaqtori.


deputati iyo fiqria CixraZe,

romelic 1995 wels redaqtorobda

gazeT „iveria-eqspress”,

amis garda realurad swored igi

gaxldaT im telesixSiris mesakuTre,

romelzedac mauwyeblobda

„rusTavi 2".

am mowvevis deputati iyo

telekompania „TrialeTis” gendireqtori

badri nanetaSvili.

aseve daviT zurabiSvili, romelic

1995-96 wlebSi gazeT „arguments”

redaqtorobda, aseve

ivliane xaindrava, romelic saagento

„praim-niuss” warmoadgen-

da 1997-98 wlebSi, 1998-99 wleb-

Si radio „saqarTvelos”, 1999-

2003 wlebSi ki _ radio „Tavisufali

evropa _ Tavisuflebas”.


am mowvevis parlamentSi iyvnen

zemoT ukve naxsenebi nodar

grigalaSvili, van baiburTi, vasil

maRlaferiZe, fiqria CixraZe,

giorgi TargamaZe, maT garda

im mowvevis parlamentis wevri

iyo arCil gogelia, romelic sxvadasxva

dros iyo gazeT „lelos”,

Jurnal „skola da cxovrebis”

redaqtori, gazeT „komunistis”

redaqtoris moadgile,

gazeT „Tbilisis” redaqtori,

gazeT „dronis” redaqtori, 1992

wels saqarTvelos beWdviTi sityvisa

da informaciis ministri,

saqarTvelos respublikis teleradio

departamentis Tavmjdomare,

Semdeg 1999 wlamde saqarTvelos

teleradiomauwyeblobis

Tavmjdomare.


wevri iyo dali abaSiZe, romelic

Telavis raionul gazeT

„alaznis ganTiadis” redaqtori

(1988-1990 ww.) gaxldaT.

amave mowvevis deputati iyo

ilia TavberiZe, romelic jer

gazeT „TvalsawierSi” muSaobda,

Semdeg _ telekompania „guriaSi”.

aseve nana devdariani, romelic

1996-1998 wlebSi gazeT „samSoblo

fortes” redaqtorobda, manamde

ki wlebis manZilze muSaobda

televiziaSi.

amave mowvevis deputati iyo

geno kalandia, romelic sxvadasxva

dros iyo afxazeTis saolqo

gazeTis korespondenti,

soxumis raionuli gazeTis korespondenti,

afxazeTis radios

diqtori.

am parlamentis wevri iyo poeti

muxran maWavariani, romelic

sxvadasxva dros gaxldaT Jurnalebis

„dilasa”, „pioneris”

redaqtori; aseve elizbar javeliZe,

romelic redaqtorobda

„literaturul saqarTvelos”,

„saqarTvelos samreklos”. iseve

rogorc jansuR Carkviani,

romelic sxvadasxva dros saTaveSi

edga Jurnal „droSas”, Jurnal

„ciskars”, Jurnal „dilas”.

1995-1999 da 1992-1995 wlebis

parlamentebi

1995-1999 wlebis parlamentSi

warmodgenili iyvnen zemoT ukve

xsenebuli jansuR Carkviani,

fiqria CixraZe, geno kalandia,

dali abaSiZe; 1992-1995 wlebis

parlamentSi ki Tamaz diasamiZe,

geno kalandia, jansuR Carkviani,

nana devdariani. rac Seexeba ivliane

xaindravasa da daTo

berZeniSvils, isini im mowvevis

parlamentSi ki iyvnen, magram Jurnalisturi

moRvaweoba maSin ar

hqondaT aqtivSi, Semdeg daiwyes.

1992-95 wlebis parlamentSi

maT garda warmodgenili iyvnen

„televizionSiki” luiza SakiaSvili

da wamyvani valeri kvaracxelia,

asvee „vestnikis” cnobili

wamyvani mark rivkini.

uzenaesi sabWo

uzenaesi sabWos wevri iyo akaki

ZiZiguri, romelic sxvadasxva

dros muSaobda

saqarTvelos radios redaqtorad,

pasuxismgebel redaqtorad,

mTavar redaqtorad, saqarTvelos

televiziisa da radiomauwyeblobis

saxelmwifo komitetis

Tavmjdomaris moadgiled

da Tbilisis telestudiis direqtorad,

Jurnal „droSis” redaqtorad,

saqarTvelos televiziis

xelmZRvanelad. uzenaesi sab-

Wos wevri iyo poeti muxran ma-

Wavariani (romelzedac ukve

mogaxseneT), aseve mwerali nodar

wuleiskiri, romelic sxvadasxva

dros iyo saqarTvelos televiziis

redaqtori, ufrosi redaqtori,

Jurnal „dilis” pasuxismgebeli

mdivani, Jurnaleb „mnaTobisa”

da „ciskris” ganyofilebis

gamge da a. S.

uzenaesi sabWos wevri iyo

gazeT „komunistis” redaqtori

mindia ugrexeliZe, aseve merab

balarjiSvili, romelic televiziaSi

sxvadasxva poziciaze muSaobda

1974-1985 wlebSi, 1988 wlidan

ki gazeT „axalgazrda komunists”

(SemdgomSi „axalgazrda

iverieli”) redaqtorobda.

uzenaesi sabWos wevri iyo mwerali

irina taliaSvili, romelic

TanamSromlobda sxvadasxva Jurnal-gazeTTan,

muSaobda teleradiomauwyeblobaSi

sxvadasxva

poziciaze. uzenes sabWoSi iyo

Jurnal „saqarTvelos komunistis”

redaqtori varlam keSelava,

gazeT „saxalxo ganaTlebis”

korespondenti emzar goguaZe,

sagarejos raionuli gazeTis

redaqtoris moadgile aleqsi

arabuli, walenjixis raionuli

gazeTis korespondenti zurab

guCua, Jurnal „saqarTvelos komunistis”

redaqtoris moadgile

valerian SariqaZe, gazeT „ekranis

ambebis” TanamSromeli salome

zviadaZe, galis raionuli

gazeTis TanamSromeli jemal

Sonia, warsulSi „zaria vostokas”

redaqtori guram kankava...

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

35

Tu wlebis ganmavlobaSi, anu wina

giorgi sakaruli

xelisuflebis dros, momRerali eka

555 42 42 81

kvaliaSvili iblokeboda, SeiZleba

iTqvas, momRerlis cxovrebasa Tu

SemoqmedebaSi dResac ar gaxlavT saxarbielo mdgomareoba.

vin da ratom blokavs dResac

momRerlebs? sad xedavs qarTuli

estradis varskvlavi gamo-

savals? am da sxva saintereso

sakiTxebis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s

momRerali eka kvaliaSvili es-

aubreba:

_ eka, Tqven socialur qsel-

Si aseTi saxis statusi geweraT:

„davibeni... vin var me? dawereT,

mipasuxeT, gamarkvieT”. Tqven

gvipasuxeT, _ vin aris eka kval-

iaSvili?

_ Cems saqmeSi _ lomi! eka

kvaliaSvili aris momRerali,

romelic yvelas axsovs. me ar var

30-ian wlebSi moRvawe momRerali

deb iSxnelebTan erTad. 90-ianebis

koncerti tardeba da me ar

meZaxian. Sesabamisad, giCndeba

kiTxva: ratom?! vin var me? da

zustad es SekiTxva davsvi socialur

qselSi. ase xdeboda

wlebis manZilze da ase xdeba axlac.

nuTu, Cems kolegebs Tval-

Si arasodes davklebivar da ar

ukiTxavT, Tu sad viyavi? me, magaliTad,

yovelTvis mikiTxavs

Cemi kolegebi, rodesac isini

koncertze ar daminaxavs. yvelas

Semoqmedebas Zalian did pativs

vcem, Cemi kolegebi arian, kolegialuri

var da yovelTvis aseTad

davrCebi, magram me ar var is

axlad gamoCekili momRerali,

romelic SeiZleba, rom ar gaaxsendes

viRacas. arasdros gamikeTebia

piari, mxolod Souspeqtakli

„imperia “ davdgi.

_ problemas sad xedavT, _

koncertis organizatorebsa Tu

kolegebSi?

_ problemas saerTod arafer-

Si vxedav, ubralod, mikvirs is,

rom es xdeba wlebis ganmavloba-

Si da amdeni xnis manZilze, nuTu,

arc erT Cems kolegas TvalSi ar

davakldi?

_ SeiZleba iTqvas, rom

dResac iblokebiT koncerte-

bze?

_ wina mTavrobis periodSi

dablokili viyavi, radgan namdvilad

ver daviwyebdi yvirils

imaze, vis avkargianobaSic Tvi-

Ton ar viyavi darwmunebuli,

xalxs namdvilad ver movatyuebdi.

amis gamo Zalian bevri raRac

gamoviare, didi gaWirveba da a. S.

mere videqi da madlobas vuxdidi

maRal RmerTs, rom amxela

moTmineba da gamZleoba momca.

madloba ufals, rom keTili adamianebi

gamomiCina, romlebic damexmarnen.

gadavlaxe Zalian rTuli

9 weliwadi da mainc gausaZlis

mdgomareobaSi viyavi. erT

dRes me da mama petre daTo arCvaZis

mosanaxuleblad mivediT

klinikaSi. iqidan gamosvlis Semdeg

mama petrem telefonSi dawera

statusi, _ ratom unda iyos

eka kvaliaSvili aseT mdgomare-

36


vin da ratom blokavs

obaSio?!

_ ra gamoxmaureba moyva am

statuss?

_ ramdenime dRis Semdeg damikavSirda

erTi qalbatoni da miTxra:

Tqven gaxdiT „qarTu fondis”

stipendianti. Tavidan davibeni,

magram mivxvdi, rom „qarTu

fondi” bevr xelovans exmareba

da saarsebo saSualeba dameniSna,

razedac madlobeli var.

_ arsebobisTvis da, zogadad,

cxovrebisTvis

aucilebelia

fuli, magram rodesac Tqven am-

bobT, rom wina xelisuflebis

dros koncertebze viblokebodio,

dRes ra Seicvala am kuTx-

iT?

_ araferi!

_ ratom? axla xom xelisu-

flebaSi „qarTuli ocnebaa”?

dRes ra xdeba?

_ Sen Jurnalisti xar da vimedovneb,

mogiwevs im adamianebTan

Sexvedra, romelTac xelewifebaT

es yvelaferi da eg kiTxva

maT dausvi. ra pasuxi gagce, mar-

Tla ar vici, gulwrfelad geubnebi.

_ xedavT Tu ara sakuTar Tav-

Si problemas?

_ ar vici, SeiZleba, iseTi aqtiuri

ar var, rogorc sxva, ufro

sworad, ver var da getyviT,

ratomac: me gaxlavarT im wlebis

Svili, rodesac televizia

TviTon gvirekavda, TviTon akeTebda

koncertebs, anu Jargonulad

rom vTqvaT, arasodes „mi-

CaliCia”, koncerti gamekeTebina

da a. S. sul meZaxdnen, vmonawileobdi,

majildoebdnen da or

dReSi erTxel gadaReba gvqonda.

Cemi meore saxli filarmonia

iyo, televizia _ pirveli saxli

da gamomdinare iqidan, rom sul

ekranze viyaviT, koncertebi

tardeboda, Cveni Taoba Zalian

cnobili iyo, yvelas araCveulebrivi

urTierToba gvqonda.

Semdeg, 2000 wlebidan, roca sxva

Taoba wamovida, saWiro gaxda

klipebi. im periodSi Zalian modaSi

iyo da aqtiurad iRebda

klipebs basa focxiSvili, zaza

oraSvili da kidev ramdenime.

sul pirvelad klipebi ise gadamiRes,

rom TviTonve modiodnen

iniciativiT da am yvelafers

miveCvie. rodesac realoba Seicvala

da axalma Taobam aqtiurad

daiwyo klipebis gadaReba, maSin

ar mqonda fuli, finansurad ve-

Rar SevZeli. Zalian mindoda,

rom basasTan gadameRo klipi, magram

amis saSualeba ar mqonda.

_ Tqven ver gaxdebiT sxva

stilis momRerali, Tundac

„fanoRs” rom uwodeben, magram

xom ar gifiqriaT, repertuari

SegecvalaT, CageweraT axali

simRerebi an meti aqtiuroba

dagewyoT?

`ra hqvia kulturis

ministrs? gvyavs

saerTod?!~

_ arcTu ise didi xnis winaT

sakuTari simRerebi maqvs Cawerili.

magaliTad, „rogor miyvarxar”

ramdenime gadacemaSi vimRere

da yvelas Zalian moewona. luba

uspenskaiam erT-erTi simRera

mompara, magram me am simRerebze

klipebi ver gadaviRe. badri patarkaciSvilma,

Tavis droze,

Zalian didi daxmareba gamiwia,

mTliani Souspeqtakli „imperia”

damifinansa da 9 Tve vakeTebdi

am Sous. mere vifiqre, rom ramdenime

simReras gadaviReb-meTqi,

badris holdingSi erT-erTi

direqtori iyo gogi jaoSvili,

visTanac mivedi da man miTxra, _

Sen klipi rad ginda, isedac popularuli

xaro. _ swored rom

popularuli var, imitom minda

klipi-meTqi. mokled, is dafinanseba,

rac „imperiaze” iyo gamoyofili,

cot-cota raRacebs davakeli

da simRera „sofeloze”

klipi gadaviRe. es simRera iseTi

popularuli gaxda, rom dRemde

yvelas axsovs. mecineba, TiTqos

sxva araferi mimReria. vimeoreb:

Tu ise ver vaqtiurob, rogorc

saWiroa, isev da isev, ufinansobis

gamo, magram ar minda, vinmem

ise gaigos, rom rameze vwuwuneb,

piriqiT, samyaros madlobeli

var. vcxovrob naqiraveb binaSi,

aseve Cemi Svili Tavis qmar-Svil-

Tan erTad cxovrobs naqiraveb

binaSi. gadavixdi binis qiras, komunalurebs

da mere mTeli Tve

vzivar ase da velodebi momdevno

Tves, rodis Cairicxeba Tanxa,

rom igive procedurebi gaviaro.

_ luba uspenskaiam daukiTxavad

aiRo Tqveni simRera da mR-

eris. samarTlebriv zomebs ar

mimarTavT?

_ ra Tqma unda, aucileblad,

Tumca rodis, amas presiT namdvilad

ar gavaxmovaneb winaswar.

qalma absoluturad yvelanairi

wesi daarRvia, simRera ise miitaca,

arc acxadebs, rom Cemia. mis

erT-erT direqtors davukavSirdi,

romelmac, faqtobrivad, Seuracxyofa

momayena da masTan

Zalian mSvidad davasrule

saubari. ase rom, luba uspenskaias

male moeTxoveba pasuxi.

_ bevri momRerali mosula

da wasula ise, rom aRaravis ax-

sovs maTi saxeli da gvari. is,

rom qarTuli Soubiznesis baz-

arze stabilurad modixarT da

yvelam icis, Tu vin aris eka

kvaliaSvili, rogor fiqrobT,

risi damsaxurebaa?

_ namdvilad ar vici. albaT,

Cemi niWierebisa da gulwrfelobis.

bevri Wori amigores, TiTqos

cudi xasiaTi maqvs, agresiulobiT

gamovirCevi, magram absoluturad

sapirispiro adamiani var.

_ specialurad avrcelebdnen

am xmebs?

_ ra Tqma unda. Jurnalistebi

CemTan SeSinebulebi javSanJiletebiTa

da CafxutebiT modiodnen

da Sua saubris dros meubnebodnen,

Tqvenze sul sxva rames

ambobdnen, am dros ki saerTod

sxvanairi yofilxarTo. roca

adamiani Wors givrcelebs, es mis

sisusteze miuTiTebs. e. i. me

Zalian magari vyofilvar. madloba

maT imisTvis, rom amiT

ufro maZliereben.

_ ramdenad rTulia dRevan-

deli mdgomareoba TqvenTvis?

_ sul maqvs raRac ideebi,

bevr proeqts vwer da mova dro,

rodesac aucileblad ganvaxorcieleb.

simRera roca menatreba,

ager maqvs dinamikebi, ori mikrofoni,

instrumenti da vmReri

xolme.

_ Tumca scena xom momR-

erlisTvis aucilebelia?

_ ra Tqma unda, scena aucilebelia,

magram rom ar aris, ra

vqna? sadme xom unda vimRero?

bevri kargi idea maqvs, romelsac

jer ar ganvaxorcieleb.

_ ratom?

_ imdenad Seusabamobaa am axal

regulaciebSi, rom warmoudgenelia,

rame idea ganaxorcielo da

proeqti wamoiwyo. Seusabamobaa

Tundac is, rom ojaxSi 10 kacze

meti stumris miRebis ufleba ar

gaqvs da erTi ram mainteresebs:

Tu 11 adamiani cxovrobs ojaxSi,

me-11 unda gadaagdon? an manqana-

Si win jdoma rom ar SeiZleboda

da pirbade rom unda hkeTeboda

col-qmars da saxlSi erTad rom

36 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.


eka kvaliaSvils?!

wvanan, ase ar gadaedebaT araferi?

anu manqanaSi gadaedebaT da

sawolSi _ ara? mivmarTav sazogadoebas,

rom arc ifiqroT

da arc akadroT sakuTar Tavs

aranairi agresia, iyaviT mSvidad,

wynarad, siyvaruli savseni.

rogorc giWirT Tqven, ase miWirs

mec. ar daiwyoT imaze laparaki,

neta, Sen ra genaRvleba, qveynis

fuli gaqvso. ar maqvs.

_ ramdenad rTulad SegexoT

es pandemia?

_ gaaCnia, rogor Seixeb raRacas.

ver Semexo da iciT, ratom?

_ cota ufro maRla vdgavar

aseT raRacebze. rac SeiZleba

unda geWiroT bevri sinaTle da

siyvaruli. veravis verafrisken

movuwodeb. iyaviT maRal ganwyobaze,

maRal cnobierebaSi, siyvaruliT

savse, nu jujRunebT,

nu SegSurdebaT, ar iyoT agresiulebi.

aris Tavisufali neba,

kosmiuri kanoni da am nebas arc

erTi RvTisnieri adamiani ar ar-

Rvevs, mxolod dabal vibraciaSi

myofi adamianebi Zaladoben. ZaliT

arasodes araferi gaakeToT.

_ Tumca es Tavisufali neba

TavisTavad gvezRudeba, roca

konkretul raRacas kanoni

gvikrZalavs da kanons unda

daemorCilo.

_ kanonma rom giTxras, TviTmfrinavidan

uparaSutod gadaxtio,

gadaxtebi?

_ ara.

_ da kanoni Tu geubneba, gadaxtio?

amitom, Cemo Zvirfaso,

adamians aqvs neba da sakuTari azric.

me imitom gavakeTe es patara

Sedareba, rom daaxloebiT

unda mixvdes adamiani, Tu rogor

unda moiqces. viRaca Tu cuds

misurvebs, sakuTar Tavs blokavs,

mis cxovrebaSi ukve iseTi kvanZi

gakeTda, romelic unda moimuSakos,

rom raRacas eRirsos cxovrebaSi.

_ arsebobs kulturis poli-

tika?

_ kulturis politika rom arsebobdes,

gamosvlebs ki ar moiTxovda

es xalxi. erT raRacas vetyvi

yvelas: gamosvlebi ar gindaT,

xalxo. es nervebs mogiSliT,

dagajaxebT viRacebs, ar gindaT

agresia. Tqven xom xelovani adamianebi

xarT, romlebsac evalebaT,

rom mudmiv siyvarulSi iyvnen.

mesmis, rom giWirT, magram nu

geSiniaT. yvelaferi kargad iqneba.

_ es gamosvlebi xom bevris-

Tvis tribunaa da xmis miwvdenis

erT-erTi saukeTeso saSualeba?

_ da Sen rogor fiqrob, ar

ician? am gamosvlebiT mxolod

da mxolod guls ifxanen, aris

saSineli energiis gamostyorcna

da am dros araferi keTdeba.

rame moxda wlebis ganmavlobaSi?

rame Seicvala?

_ gamosavals sad xedavT?

_ dawynardnen. yvela unda

`koncerti tardeba da me ar

meZaxian. Sesabamisad, giCndeba

kiTxva: ratom?! vin var me? da

zustad es SekiTxva davsvi

socialur qselSi. ase xdeboda

wlebis manZilze da ase xdeba

axlac. nuTu, Cems kolegebs

TvalSi arasodes davklebivar

da ar ukiTxavT, Tu sad

viyavi? me, magaliTad,

yovelTvis momikiTxavs Cemi

kolegebi, rodesac isini

koncertze ar daminaxavs~

davwynardeT. yvelam unda vimuSaoT

sakuTar Tavze, rom rac

SeiZleba meti sinaTle avanToT.

_ saqmis mxriv ra iqneba?

_ ar vici, ra hqvia kulturis

ministrs? gvyavs saerTod?! wlebis

ganmavlobaSi sul imas gavyviri,

rom SegvxvdiT, vinc raRacas

vazrovnebT, dagvelaparakeT,

gagviziareT da gagiziarebT

Cvens mosazrebas. me vici, rom

erTi Sexvedra kaxi kalaZem gaakeTa

xelovan adamianebTan, magram

CemTan aravis daurekavs.

_ Zalian martivad rom vTqvaT,

aravis ainteresebs kul-

turis sfero?

_ xedavT vinmes interess? me

_ ara.

_ bevri problemis miuxeda-

vad, Zalian pozitiuri xarT da

ar vardebiT depresiaSi. Zlieri

adamiani brZandebiT?

_ ra Tqma unda, lomi var.

rogor SeiZleba, depresiaSi Cavardna?

siyvaruli aris yvelaze

maRali vibracia da siyvaruli

aris RmerTi. depresia da sasowarkveTa

dabali vibraciaa. Tu

gindaT, rom yvelaferi kargad

iyos, gadadiT maRal vibracieb-

Si, anu siyvarulSi. gaaTavisufleT

Tqveni goneba da mxolod

kargze ifiqreT.

_ cxovrebis gakveTilebidan

ra iswavleT?

_ Zalian bevri ram. am cxovrebam

maswavla moTmineba, pozitivisa

da sinaTlis daWera, rogor

unda gaviTavisuflo goneba da

tvini yvelanairi negatiuri azrovnebisgan

da viswavle is, Tu

rogori kargia es samyaro. rogorc

dainaxav da dagegmav yvelafers,

ise iqneba Seni cxovreba.

Cven varT Semoqmedi RmerTis

Svilebi da CvenSic aris is Semoqmedeba.

Tqveni warmosaxva qmnis

Tqvens realobas. Tu rwmena myaria,

yvelaferi gamodis. patara

magaliTs moviyvan: rodesac ieso

qriste midis da ukan mihyveba bevri

xalxi, mas erTi qali daedevneba,

samoselis bolos mohkidebs

xels da ganikurneba. es qali wlebis

manZilze iyo sisxlmdeni, mas

Seuwydeba sisxldena, ganikurneba.

motrialdeba ieso qriste da

qali eubneba mas, _ madloba,

ufalo, rom Sen me momarCine.

ieso ki pasuxobs, _ me ara, Senma

rwmenam gadagarCina.

Tu kargad daukvirdebiT am

sityvebs, maSin Zalian bevr raRacas

mixvdeba Tqveni lamazi da

RvTaebrivi goneba.

ùars vambobT oponentebisTvis talaxis srolaze~

22-e gverdidan

- namdvili lideri CemTvis is adamiania,

vinc sxva liderebs aZlevs SesaZleblobas,

warmatebas miaRwion.

_ isev vaSaZis mimarT wamosul agresias

davubrundebi. is opoziciam er-

Toblivad daasaxela maJoritar kandi-

datad, magram rac sapremiero ambiciebi

gauCnda, „nacionalebma” mas xatia de-

kanoiZis kandidatura dauyenes. isanSi

isedac rTulad iyo saqme da dekanoiZis

gamoCena xom kidev met problemas

gaaCens?

_ Zalian dasanania, rom „nacionaluri

moZraobis” zogierTi lideri ver gascda

viwro partiul interesebs. am partiaSi

bevr adamians vicnob da bevr maTgans pativs

vcem. isinic pativs gvcemen Cven. samwuxarod,

maT gadawyvetilebebis miRebaze

xeli ar miuwvdebaT. gadawyvetilebebis

miRebaze im adamianebs miuwvdebaT xeli,

romlebic viwropartiul merkantilur

interesebs ver gascdnen.

Zalian samwuxaro ram moxda isanSi. giorgi

vaSaZes SeeZlo, am olqSi pirvelive

turSi gaemarjva, magram xatia dekanoiZis

kandidaturis dayenebiT „nacionalebma”

meore turis Sansi misces biZina ivaniSvils.

samwuxaro da dasanania, ase rom moxda,

magram ara uSavs. Cven am winaaRmdegobasac

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

gadavlaxavT. opozicias mainc ar davupirispirdebiT.

SevecdebiT, isev gamovnaxoT

maTTan saerTo ena.

Cven dRes erTmaneTi gvWirdeba. unda

gvaxsovdes, rom Cveni mTavari samizne

„qarTuli ocneba” da biZina ivaniSvilia,

amitom yvelam unda vipovoT erTmaneTTan

misasvleli gzebi. axla saqarTvelos

Zalian sWirdeba Cveni erTianoba. darwmunebuli

var, rom erTmaneTTan misasvlel

gzebs yvela vipoviT.

_ erTmaneTTan misasvlel gzebs

„evropuli saqarTvelo” da „naciona-

lebic” ipovian? bolo debatebSi Zalian

cudad gamoCnda orive mxare.

_ sxva gza gvaqvs, rom erTmaneTTan

saerTo ar gamovnaxoT? warmatebis miRweva

da ivaniSvilis damarcxeba Tu gvinda,

erTmaneTTan misasvleli gzebi unda vipovoT.

is dro, rasac dapirispirebaze vxarjavT,

„qarTuli ocnebis” winaaRmdeg

mivmarToT. es energia umuSevrobisa da

siRaribis winaaRmdeg sabrZolvelad rom

migvemarTa, saqarTvelo nomer pirveli

qveyana iqneboda.

„strategia aRmaSenebeli” orientirebulia

momavalze, erTianobasa da aRm-

Seneblobaze. amomrCeveli amas aucileblad

dainaxavs.

mivmarTav imaT, vinc am intervius waikiTxavs:

Tqven ra ggoniaT, giorgi vaSaZe

ver Sekrebda e. w. meorad politikosebs?

dRe ar gava, rom aseTebi ar movidnen Cven-

Tan, magram kategoriul uars vambobT maT

miRebaze. uars vambobT, radgan gvinda,

„strategia aRmaSenebeli” sufTa da axali

adamianebiT iyos dakompleqtebuli.

axal adamianebs rom vambob, sruliad

ucnob personebs ar vgulisxmob. isini

politikaSi ar yofilan, Torem TavianT

sferoSi warmatebulebi arian. maT Seu-

ZliaT saqmis keTeba. Cvenc saqmis sakeTeblad

movediT politikaSi da Cveni mizani

konkurentebis CaZirva ar aris.

_ politikaSi sxva Tu ar CaZire, ise

arCevnebs ver moigeb.

`mivmarTav imaT, vinc am intervius waikiTxavs: Tqven ra

ggoniaT, giorgi vaSaZe ver Sekrebda e. w. meorad

politikosebs? dRe ar gava, rom aseTebi ar movidnen

CvenTan, magram kategoriul uars vambobT maT miRebaze.

uars vambobT, radgan gvinda, `strategia aRmaSenebeli~

sufTa da axali adamianebiT iyos dakompleqtebuli~

_ Cven vamkvidrebT standarts, rom

arCevnebSi warmatebis miRweva konkurentis

CaZirvis gareSec SesaZlebelia. mTavaria,

Tavad sazogadoebam moindomos es cvlileba.

_ unda sazogadoebas es cvlileba?

_ veravin damajerebs, rom sazogadoebas

cvlileba ar unda.

_ ratom ver dagajerebT amaSi ver-

avin?

_ imitom, rom Tu sazogadoebas cvlileba

ar unda, es imas niSnavs, rom mas

moswons SimSili, maRali sabanko procentebis

gadaxda, 300%-iT gaZvirebuli

medikamentebi;

sazogadoebas cvlilebebi Tu ar unda,

es imas niSnavs, rom mas moewona, rogor

iSova koronapandemiis dros ivaniSvilis

xelisuflebam milionebi.

darwmunebuli var, sazogadoebas ar

moswons is, rac dRes qveyanaSi xdeba. amitom

mjera, xalxs cvlilebebi unda. es

maZlevs imis imeds, rom Cven yvelani vipoviT

erTmaneTTan misasvlel gzas da

saqarTvelos momavlisTvis gaverTiandebiT.

unda vimuSaoT imaze, rom xalxs nihilizmi

gauqres. xalxi unda davarwmunoT,

rom yvela erTi araa da viRac aucileblad

izrunebs maTze. Tu gvinda SevcvaloT

realoba, unda SevcvaloT arCevani,

romelic axali Taobis sufTa politikosebs

ekuTvnis.

37


saSineleba

gilocavT, megobrebo: „dinamo”

wina xuTSabaTis saRamos yvelaze

wyalwaRebuli gundi ar yofila.

slovakeTis „dunaiska stredam”

avstriul „laskTan” sulac 0:7 waago.

mxolod imas SegaxsenebT, rom

am uwyalwaRebulesma „dunaiska

stredam” ori wlis winaT es Cveni

„dinamo” aTria...

axla ki seriozulad: vikipediaSi

amovikiTxe, rom pol kletstardi

farereli mamakacisTvis

iseTi Cveuli saqmianobiTac aris

dakavebuli, rogoric mecxvareoba

da veSapebze nadirobaa.

pol kletstardma „dinamos”

sami burTi gautana.

vikipedia am kacze am mwiri informaciiT

Semoifargleba, me ki

darwmunebiT getyviT, rom pol

kletstardi kargi mecxvarea,

Tavisi saqme kargad icis.

es me saidan vici? saidan da guglSi

davZebne, rom saSualo statistikuri

farereli saSualo

statistikur qarTvelze 15-jer

mdidaria. erT sul mosaxleze

mTliani Sida produqtis gadanawilebis

maCvenebeli amas gveubneba.

xom xvdebiT, kletstardi da

sxva farerelebi cudi meTevzeebi

da mecxvareebi rom iyvnen, Cvenze

15-jer mdidrebi ver iqnebodnen.

simdidre kidev fulis Sovnis

garda mis yairaTianad xarjvasac

niSnavs.

da Sen, saSualo statistikuro

qarTvelo, verasdros iqnebi mdidari,

radgan saqarTvelos saxelmwifo

asobiT milions imaSi xarjavs,

rom qarTuli saklubo fexburTi

muqTa fulis saSovnelad

darazmuli adamianebis TavSeyris

adgilad iqces. saSinelebaa!..

finalis piroba

„los-anjeles leikersi” mimdinare

NBA-s sezonis pirveli davtovoT. kargad viciT, risTvis

da, erTmaneTs Sepireba Sepirebad

finalistia. dasavleT konferenciis

gadamwvet seriaSi „leikersonati

movigoT. saamisod ki oTxi

varT „leikersSi”. gvsurs, Cempima”

4:1 daamarcxa „denver nagiTsi”. mogeba gvWirdeba. es niSnavs, rom

kalifornielTagan moedanze saukeTesoebi

iyvnen lebron jeimsi (38 lebroni grZnobs, rom Tu Cempi-

mizans kidev ufro mivuaxlovdiT.

qula, 16 moxsna, 10 pasi) da entoni onebi ver gavxdebiT, me gamawbilebs.

igives vfiqrob Tavadac da

devisi (27 qula).

namatCevs devisma Tqva, rom Tu ar vapireb lebronis gawbilebas”,

„leikersi” sezons ver moigebs, ganacxada devisma.

misi da lebronis Cavardna iqneba. „NBA-s finalSi „los-anjeles

„rodesac gundSi mivedi, lebronma

miTxra, rom pirvel saCempiben.

maiamelebma aRmosavleT kon-

leikersi” da „maiami hiti” iTamaSeono

beWeds momagebinebda. mec vupasuxe,

rom misi finalSi dabruneeqvse

matCSi ligis yvelaze tituferenciis

finaluri seriis meba

minda. albaT gaxsovT, rom Sar- lovani gundi „boston seltiqsi”

San lebroni finals miRma darCa (17 Cempionoba) dasces 125:113 da

xeli travmam SeuSala. Cven ar gvin-

saerTo jamSi 4:2 moiges.

serena da simona

parizSi rolan garosi daiwyo da ruminelma simona halepma pirve-

li wre iolad daZlia, Tumc aqamde ramdenime dRiT adre halepma

romSi pirveloba gaasama _ zedized mesame turniri moigo. misma

metoqem, Cexma karolina pliSkovam, finalSi winaaRmdegoba travmis

gamo 0:6, 1:2 angariSisas Sewyvita.

28 wlis rumineli amJamad msoflios meore Cogania da mxolod

eSli bartis CamorCeba. 2013 wels man karieraSi pirvelad moigo

WTA-is tituli da mas Semdeg jamSi 22-jer ipirvela.

amave periodSi ufro meti turniri mxolod serena uiliamss aqvs

mogebuli _ 27. aSS-is wlevandeli Ria pirveloba simona halepma

garTulebuli pandemiuri fonis gamo gamotova. arada, simonas

dRevandeli formis gaTvaliswinebiT, iqac upirveles favoritTa

Soris iqneboda.

alisas ambavi

alisa Smidti didi

sportuli miRwevebiT

ver daikvexnis.

mZleosnobaSi

20-wlamdelTa evropis

Cempionatze

dakavebuli meore

adgili misi maqsimumi

iyo.

samagierod, 2017

wels gamocema Busted

Coverage-m planetis

yvelaze seqsualur

sportsmenad

daasaxela da popularobac

wamSi movida.

socqselebSi mis

aqaunTebze xelmomwerTa

raodenoba

karga xania, milions

gadascda. hoda, es

Cveni lamazmani dortmundis

„borusias”

mZleosnobis

mwvrTneli gaxda.

alisam gundis

moTelvas uxelmZRvanela,

mere ki maTs

humelsTan erTad

400-metriani distanciac

gairbina.

Sedegi? guSin

„borusia” sensaciurad

damarcxda

„augsburgTan” 0:2.

qalebi dagRupaven

Tqven!

38

38 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

nadiraZis

msoflio

vercxli

saqarTvelos kanoes erovnuli

nakrebis liderma zaza nadiraZem,

ungreTis qalaq segedSi mimdinare

niCbosanTa msoflio Tasze vercxlis

medali moipova.

nadiraZem 200 metr distanciaze

naxevarfinalur gacurvaSi pirveli

adgili daikava, finalSi ki man-

Zili 40.38 wamSi dafara da sabolood

meore adgilze gavida.

ungreTis msoflio Tasze, 200

metr distanciis finalSi,

saqarTvelos nakrebis kidev erTi

wevri _ murman malaniac moxvda,

romelmac finaluri gacurva

merve adgilze daasrula.


mesis

rekordebi

dauTvales

saqarTveloSi myofi borjRalosnebi „Sevardenis” sanakrebo

bazaze Sekrebaze Sevidnen da 11 oqtombramde Semodgomis

matCebisTvis mzadebis pirvel etaps iqve gaivlian.

saqarTvelos ragbis kavSiris oficialuri saitis cnobiT,

COVID-19-is pandemiis gamo, jandacvis saministros rekomendaciis

gaTvaliswinebiT, mTeli es periodebi borjRalosnebi

TviTizolaciaSi iqnebian da gare samyaros moswydebian. Sesabamisad,

varjiSebic daxuruli iqneba, raTa SotlandiaSi da

„Semodgomis erTa Tasze” gamgzavrebamde minimumamde davides

nakrebis wevrebis dainficirebis riski.

11 oqtombers borjRalosnebi safrangeTSi miemgzavrebian,

sadac maT legionerebic SeuerTdebian da mzadebis meore etaps

gaivlian.

SegaxsenebT: 23 oqtombers Sotlandias „marifildze” testmatCSi

SevxvdebiT; pirvel noembers ruseTTan TbilisSi ragbi

evropis Cempionatis gadadebul matCs gavmarTavT; 14 noembridan

ki „Semodgomis erTa TasSi” CaverTvebiT, sadac pirvel dRes

ingliss „Tviqenhemze” veTamaSebiT, 21 noembers uelss SevxvdebiT,

29-Si ki „avivaze” irlandias verkinebiT. 5 dekembers

turniris daskvniTi dRea da jgufSi dakavebuli adgilis

mixedviT meore jgufis (safrangeTi, Sotlandia, italia, fiji)

imave reitingis nakrebs SevxvdebiT.

amasobaSi ki gairkva, rom saqarTvelos 2019 wlis saukeTeso

msaji nika amaSukeli „Semodgomis erTa Tasis” or matCs moemsaxureba.

22 noembers is „marifildze”, Sotlandiisa da safrangeTis

nakrebebis SexvedraSi uein barnsis, xolo 28 noembers, imave

„marifildze”, Sotlandiisa da fijis matCSi endriu brisis

damxmare iqneba.

N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

saqarTvelos

rva erSi

msajic

mihyveba

yvelaze mdidrebi evropaSi

evropeli statistikosebis daTvliT „liverpuli” msoflios

yvelaze Zvirfasi klubi gamodga. es statusi mersisaidelebma

zafxulis, erTi SexedviT, mokrZalebuli nasyidobebis wyalobiT

SeiZines.

gasul kviras „wiTlebma” daimates tiago alkantara da diogo

Jota, ris Sedegadac maTi fasi TiTqmis miliardi girvanqa,

zustad ki 986,7 milioni gaxda.

erTi SexediT gasakviria, rom iurgen klopis gundi ufro

xarjiani aRmoCnda, vidre „manCester siti”, romelic ybadaRebuli

arabuli fuliTaa „naSenebi”. gansxvaveba 50 milionia.

klops hyavs ori varskvlavi, romelTa fasic saTiTaod 100

milionze metia. laparakia mohamed salahsa da sadio maneze.

orive 108 milion girvanqad aris Sefasebuli.

trent aleqsander-arnoldis fasi 99 milioni girvanqaa,

kidev xuTi fexburTeli ki 50 milionze meti Rirs.

zemoT „manCester siti” vaxseneT. „qalaqelebis” gundi 933

milioni Rirs da uswrebs „barselonas”, romlis fexburTelTa

jamuri Rirebuleba 910 milionis tolia.

meoTxe adgilzea „Celsi”. gamodis, rom fexburTelebis fasis

mixedviT oTxeuli premierligis klubebs aqvT dapyrobili.

„lurjebma” am zafxuls Svidi axali fexburTeli SeiZines,

maT Soris: kai haverci, timo verneri da ben Cilueli.

gasakviria, rom „manCester iunaitedi” am siaSi mxolod meSvide

adgilzea. is „liverpuls” TiTqmis 300 milioniT Camouvardeba.

CamonaTvalSi „manCesteri” „realisa” da „baiernis” Semdeg modis.

siis bolo, me-20 adgilzea portugaliuri „benfika”.

„barselonam” axali sezoni

Sin „viliarealis” 4:0 gadagurebiT

daiwyo. Sesabamisad, meto-

qeTa rbevas Seudga msoflios

eqvsgzis saukeTeso fexburTe-

li leo mesi. espanurma mediam

ki am ambavs im oTxi rekordis

CamonaTvali miuZRvna, romelTa

damxobasac „barsas” lideri am

sezonSi Seecdeba.

1. pirveli rekordi dasamyareblad

yvelaze iolia _ kvi-

ras, „viliarealTan” SexvedraSi,

Seadgams Tu ara mesi mindorze

fexs, daafiqsirebs, rom man

„barsas” SemadgenlobaSi 17 sezonSi

miiRo monawileoba. aqam-

de narsaSi amden xans mxolod

Cavisa karles reSaks hqondaT

naTamaSevi. reSakma, romelic

dRes 73 wlisaa, 1964-1981 wleb-

Si la liga mxolod erTxel

moigo, 40 wlis Cavim ki 1998-2015

wlebSi jamurad 25 jildo moi-

pova;

2. cnobilia, rom mesi erTi

klubis kacia da am klubis is-

toriaSi is ukve gaxlavT la

ligis, CempionTa ligisa da el

klasikos saukeTeso bombardi-

ri. ai, espaneTis samefo Tasze

ki argentinels yvelaze meti

goli ar aqvs gatanili _ misi

monagari 53-Sedegiani dartymaa,

anu Jozep samitieris (1919-1932)

rekordamde 13 goli aklia;

3. kidev, axal sezonSi leo

mesi SeiZleba gaxdes „barsas”

maisuriT yvelaze meti TamaSis

monawile. jerjerobiT, reko-

rdsmeni aris Cavi, romelmac 767

SexvedraSi miiRo monawileoba.

mesis Cavimde 36 Sexvedra aklia

da Tu sezons srulad Caatar-

ebs, yofili partnioris Sedegs

jer gaimeorebs, xolo Semdeg

moxsnis kidec _ marto espane-

Tis CempionatSi xom 38 turi

tardeba, „barselonas” kapitani,

jerjerobiT, erT klubSi mopovebuli

titulebis raodenobi-

Tac ar aris pirveli. sadReisod

yvelas raian gigzi uswrebs,

romelmac „manCesterSi” 36 jil-

do moigo. mesis Sedegia 34;

4. da ai, bolos, pelesac mivadeqiT.

„fexburTis mefes” san-

tosis SemadgenlobaSi 643 goli

aqvs gatanili. „ucxoplaneteli”

barsaSi jerjerobiT 634 gol-

zea gaCerebuli. „barselonaSi”

Tavisi me-17 sezonis win leo

mesi oTx axal rekords umizn-

ebs. arada, sul cota xnis winaT

ise Canda, TiTqos argentinelma

blaugranas

SemadgenlobaSi

Tavisi bolo matCi ukve Caatara.

39

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

kviris horoskopi

verZi

Tqvens garemocvaSi Zalian popularuli

adamiani iqnebiT, amitom migiwveven

sadResaswaulo RonisZiebebze, rac aucileblad

dagamaxsovrdebaT. savaraudod,

mogiwevT sasmisis aweva sxvadasxva samegobro

kompaniaSi: dRes – aq, xval – iq.

moemzadeT garTobisTvis!

kuro

axla gsurT SeisvenoT da kargad

dafiqrdeT imaze, Tu ra xdeba Tqvens

cxovrebaSi. gadawyvetilebaze, romlis

misaRebadac axla emzadebiT, bevri ram

aris damokidebuli im adamianebis cxovrebaSi,

romlebsac Zalian uyvarxarT. es

mxedvelobaSi miiReT da ar iCqaroT.

tyupi

Tqveni dro modis da irgvliv yvelaferi

naTel ferebSia. samsaxurSi yvelaferi

kargad wava. savaraudod, axloblebi

Zalebs gaaerTianeben da namdvilad mefur

saCuqars mogarTmeven, romelzec arc

ki giocnebiaT.

kirCxibi

planetebis ganlageba Tqvens energias

da fulis Sovnis unars warmoudgenel

simaRlemde gazrdis. imdenad aqtiuri

iqnebiT, rom Tavadve gaocdebiT. azradac

ar mouva vinmes, ar mogceT is, rac samarTlianad

gekuTvniT. SesaniSnavia –

daagroveT maragebi.

lomi

pasuxis gacema ar gagiWirdebaT da

sakadriss miagebT yvelas, vinc gabedavs da

Tqveni da Tqveni axloblebis mimarT ukmayofilebas

gamoxatavs. es saukeTeso periodia

sajarod gamosvlisa da sakuTari

azris dasacavad. Tqven mogismenen.

qalwuli

Tqven amayobT Tqveni axloblebiT, da

axloblebi – TqveniT. gafaseben, uyvarxarT

da pativs gcemen. ojaxis megobrebi aRfr-

Tovanebulebi arian Tqveni unariT, SeqmnaT

harmonia ojaxSi. es namdvilad aris sababi

imisTvis, rom TviTSefaseba aimaRloT.

saswori

Tqven garSemo myofi adamianebis

emociebi gamZafrdeba da situacia kidev

ufro daiZabeba. Tumca Tqveni daxvewili

intuicia saSualebas mogcemT ganasxvavoT,

Tu rodis da ras ar unda miaqcioT yuradReba

da sad Rirs Tamamad CaebaT brZolaSi.


yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi

erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba

saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze

yovelkvireuli

gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari

pirveli gverdi:

1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;

meore-mesame gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;

Sida gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;

bolos wina gverdi:

1sm 2 _2 lari;

bolo gverdi:

1sm 2 _ 3 lari,

maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;

mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _

1000 sm 2;

reklama CanarTis saxiT:

A3 3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;

A4 4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;

mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)

kviris horoskopi

morieli

srulad akontrolebT yvelafers, rac

Tqvens Tavs xdeba, da akontrolebT aseve

Tqveni sxeulis yvela organos. darwmunebulni

xarT, rom TqvenTan yvelaferi kargadaa.

mSvenieri droa dasvenebisa da

gantvirTvisTvis – waikiTxeT saintereso

wignebi, kargad gamoiZineT.

mSvildosani

Tqveni sayvareli adamianis statuss

did gavlena aqvs im grZnobebis si-

Zliereze, romlebic mis mimarT gaqvT.

Tqvens warmosaxvaSi axla siyvaruli da

siRaribe saerTod ver eTavsebian erTmaneTs.

vin icis, iqneb raRacaSi marTalic

xarT?

Txis rqa

mudmivad SeCereba da zomaze metad

gaTamamebuli kolegis Wkuis swavleba

mogiwevT. erTi mxriv, ra Tqma unda, unda

SeZloT sakuTari Tavis kontroli, magram,

meore mxriv, zogjer „orTqlis gamoSvebac“

saWiroa, amitom gulTan axlos

nu miitanT yvelafers.

merwyuli

Tqveni samuSaosTvis imdens ver miiRebT,

ramdensac moeliT, magram,

zogadad, Tqven mimarT damokidebuleba

Seicvleba, ufro pativiscemiT mogekidebian.

TandaTanobiT, magram saWiro qulebs

daagrovebT axali statusisTvis. imave

suliskveTebiT gaagrZeleT.

Tevzebi

planetebis wyalobiT, Tqvens quCaze

dResaswauli dadgeba. maRalia dawinaurebis,

karieruli zrdis albaToba da es yvelaferi

– gavlenian adamianebTan megobrobis

wyalobiT. didi warmatebebi geliT

– ar dakargoT es kavSirebi.

1 aSS dolari

3.3203

1 evro

3.8708

1 girvanqa sterlingi

4.2819

100 rusuli rubli

4.2140

amindi

samSabaTi

oTxSabaTi

xuTSabaTi

paraskevi

SabaTi

kvira

orSabaTi

Tbilisi

21-23 0

18-20 0

17-20 0

19-21 0

22-24 0

20-22 0

21-23 0

quTaisi

27-29 0

24-26 0

25-27 0

23-25 0

26-28 0

25-27 0

26-27 0

baTumi

28-30 0

27-28 0

23-25 0

24-26 0

25-26 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

zugdidi

29-31 0

28-30 0

25-27 0

26-28 0

25-27 0

24-26 0

23-25 0

gori

20-22 0

17-19 0

16-18 0

18-20 0

21-23 0

19-21 0

18-20 0

Telavi

22-24 0

21-23 0

20-22 0

22-24 0

24-26 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

foTi

27-29 0

26-28 0

24-26 0

25-28 0

24-25 0

25-28 0

24-27 0

40

saredaqcio kolegia

yvela ufleba daculia;

`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli

masalebis nebismieri saxiT

gamoyeneba da gavrceleba

redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad

akrZalulia!

gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul

masalebs aqvT sareklamo

xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia

SeiZleba ar daemTxves

redaqciis Sexedulebas.

mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)

marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22

rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06

SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50

mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55

injgia nene 591 71 39 98

sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 81

qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40

mamulaZe xviCa 598 41 12 26

deviZe daviT

stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;

redaqciis misamarTi:

Tbilisi, gudauris N3,

pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;

tel.: 294 69 77;

sareklamo ganyofileba,

gavrcelebis samsaxuri

Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10

gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~

ISSN 2346-8025

294 69 77;

qronikaqronika@gmail.com

40 N22 (324) 29.09-.05.10.2020 w.

qronika+324

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