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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com`gadamgdebi xelisuflebaparlamentis yofili Tavmj-Sorena marsagiSvilidomare, nino burjanaZe, didi599 92 16 22xania, rac politikaSia. mis Tval-win uamravma movlenam Caiara, maTSoris, teroristulma aqtebma. axsovs bankebis dayaCaRebebicda mZevlebis ayvanac. is ver ixsenebs SemTxvevas, roca saxelm-wifo iseTi uZluri iyo, rogorc gasul kviras, _ erTma SeiaraRebulmamZarcvelma mTeli saxelmwifo CamoSala. nino bur-janaZes arc is axsendeba, rom saqarTveloSi xelisuflebebsmZevlebi Tavisianebad da sxvisianebad daeyo. „qarTulma oc-nebam” am mxrivac gamoiCina Tavi. biZina ivaniSvili Tavisianadarasdros miiCnevda nino burjanaZes, miuxedavad imisa, rompolitikaSi mosvla im aqciis Semdeg gadawyvita, romelic bur-janaZem da misma Tanamoazreebma gamarTes. dRes arc „ocnebas”da arc ivaniSvils 26 maisis sisxliani darbeva aRar axsovT.ratom aris biZina ivaniSvil-isTvis miuRebeli figura? ratomar surs irakli kobaxiZezesaubari? ratom Tqva 2008 welsparlamentisgarantirebulTavmjdomareobaze uari? Tanam-Sromlobs Tu ara „nacionalebT-an”? ra dagvanaxa gasul kviraszugdidSi bankis Zarcvam? _ amisSesaxeb „erTiani saqarTvelo _demokratiulimoZraobis”lideri nino burjanaZe „qroni-ka+”-s esaubreba:_ qalbatono nino, dRes qvey-anaSi mTavari salaparako TemazugdidSi bankis dayaCaRebaa,romlis drosac erTma mZarcvel-ma lamis saxelmwifo CamoSala.aseTi ususuri xelisufleba jeraravis unaxavs. Tavad xelisu-fleba am operacias warmatebulsuwodebs. Tqven ras gvetyviT amisSesaxeb?_ Zalian mniSvnelovania, rom esambavi usisxlod da msxverplisgareSe dasrulda. es kargia daamaze aravin daobs, magram saxelmwifosaxelmwifoa da rodesac isTavis funqcias srulyofiladver asrulebs, es Zalian SemaSfoTebelia.is faqti, rom mZarcvelmaaiRo fuli da Tavad gaaTavisuflamZevlebi, imaze miuTiTebs,rom Cven saxelmwifo argvyavs. roca am intervius vwerT,bankis Zarcvidan ramdenime dReagasuli da mZarcvelis Sesaxebaranairi informacia ar gagvaCnia.am SemTxvevam TvalsaCino gaxadasaxelmwifos ususuroba da vercoperacias vuwodeb warmatebuls,miT umetes, aranairi specoperaciaar Catarebula _ ubralod,SeiaraRebulma adamianma fulimoiTxova da misces. am SemTxvevamkidev erTxel dagvarwmuna, Tu ramZime dReSia Cveni saxelmwifo.qveyanaSi sruli ganukiTxaobaa._ xelisufleba sulac arfiqrobs ase. Tavidan undodaT,es Zarcva opoziciisTvis, kerZodki „nacionaluri moZraobisTvis”daebralebinaT mxolod imitom,rom mZevalTa Soris am partiismxardamWeri aRmoCnda._ yvelam icis Cemi damokidebuleba„nacionaluri moZraobis”mimarT da Zalian bevr rameze SemiZliamaT pretenzia wavuyeno, magramis, rac xelisuflebam ikadra,sruliad warmoudgeneliiyo. Tu rame odnavi bma maincarsebobs am Zarcvasa da „nacionalurmoZraobas” Soris, xelisuflebamgadakrulad ki ar undaisaubros, pirdapir Tqvas amisSesaxeb. Tu amis damamtkicebelisabuTebi ar gaaCniaT, maSin rauflebiT arRveven udanaSaulobisprezumfcias da ra uflebiTabralebs, praqtikulad, teroristulaqts politikur organizacias,romelic arCevnebSia CarTuli?!es aris ukanono meTodebi dabrZola wesebis gareSe. gasul kvirasdavinaxeT xelisuflebis namdvilisaxe _ maT mZevlad ayvaniliadamianebi politikuri niSniTdayves. „qarTuli ocneba” qveynismoqalaqeebs ganixilavs Tavis momxreebadda yvela danarCenad. amdanarCenis bedi xelisuflebas aradardebs. „qarTul ocnebas” aseveori samarTali aqvs, erTi maTimomxreebisTvisaa da meore _ danarCenisTvis.xelisuflebas, romelicsaqarTvelos moqalaqeebsTavisianebad da sxvisianebadyofs, xelisuflebas, romelsacmiaCnia, rom mxolod imaTze undaizrunos, vinc arCevnebze 41 nomersSemoxazavs, qveynis saTaveSidarCenis moraluri ufleba araqvs. isini Tavisi nebiT, ra Tqmaunda, ar wavlen. „qarTuli ocneba”xalxma unda gauSvas._ rogor ggoniaT, gauSvebsxalxi im xelisuflebas, romelic,rogorc Tqven ambobT, adamianebsTavisianebad da sxvisiane-bad yofs? Cvens sazogadoebascota ucnauri gadawyvetilebeb-is miReba uyvars._ Cveni sazogadoeba Zalianbevrs iTmens, magram darwmunebulivar, xelisuflebas sakadrisspasuxs gascems. mosaxleobis didnawils Zalian uWirs. „qarTuliocneba” xalxis siduxWiriT usindisodsargeblobs da yidulobsmaT xmebs. erTi mxriv, Cven adamianebsveubnebiT, rom ar SeiZleba,maT sakuTari Svilebis momavali50 larad gayidon, magram, meoremxriv, cduneba didia, roca adamianimSieria da wamlis yidvis sa-Sualebac ar gaaCnia. saqarTvelosmosaxleobam, visac fuls sTavazobsxelisufleba, unda aiRosTanxa, magram xma misces imas, visacsaWirod miiCnevs._ fuli aiRon da xelisufle-ba gadaagdon?_ es ar aris gadagdeba, miuxedavadimisa, rom „qarTuli ocneba”gadamgdebi xelisuflebaa dais imsaxurebs gadagdebas. Tanxa,romelsac xalxs sTavazoben, arisbiujetis Tanxa, is Tanxaa, romelicCven amogviRes jibidan da axlaam fuliT apireben xmebis yidvas.winasaarCevno periodSi TiTqmismTeli saqarTvelo moviare daZalian bevr adamians Sevxvdi. Sem-nino burjanaZe:`arCevnebiminimaluristandartebisdacviT Tu Catarda,opozicia igebs~iZlia giTxraT, rom „qarTuliocnebis” momxre, ubralod, arSemxvedria. sajaro seqtorSidasaqmebulTa ojaxis wevrebic kiar arian bolomde xelisuflebismomxreebi. isini Zalian kargad xedaven,ra viTarebaa dRes qveyana-Si. aqedan gamomdinare, SemiZliagiTxraT, rom minimaluri standartebiTCatarebuli arCevnebicki mogvcems imis SesaZleblobas,rom umravlesoba aiRos opoziciamda ara _ „qarTulma ocnebam”._ Tqveni azriT, Catardeba esarCevnebi minimaluri standart-ebis dacviT? gasul kviras gavi-geT, rom evrokavSiri sadamkv-irveblo misias ver gamoagzavnis._ marTalia, evrokavSiris misiaver Camodis, magram, sabednierod,saqarTveloSi arian ucxoelidamkvirveblebi. Cvens yvela Sexvedraseswrebodnen euTo-odirisdamkvirveblebi. saqarTveloSiakreditebulma elCebma bevri gaakeTesimisTvis, rom maTi qveynebidanCamosuliyo garkveuliraodenobis damkvirvebeli. amprocesSi Tavad saelCoebis TanamSromlebicCaerTvebian. opoziciurmapartiebma SevqmeniT xmebisdacvis Stabi, rac Zalian mniSvnelovania.koordinebulad vimoqmedebTda vimuSavebT imisTvis,rom erTmaneTis xmebi maqsimaluraddavicvaT. yvela darRvevisSesaxeb mivawvdiT informaciassaerTaSoriso damkvirveblebs.Cems kolega opozicionerebTanerTad movamzadeT werilebi,romlebic saelCoebSi gavagzavneT.aq detalurad weria, Turogor apirebs xelisuflebaarCevnebis gayalbebas da ras undamiaqcion damkvirveblebma yuradReba.am informaciis miwodebissurvili Tavad damkvirveblebmagamoTqves.Zalian mniSvnelovania isic,rom Cvenma mosaxleobamac daicvasTavisi xmebi. ar unda ayves panikasda aucileblad mividesarCevnebze. arCevnebze dabali aqtivoba„qarTul ocnebas” awyobs.`Tu rame odnavi bma mainc arsebobs am Zarcvasada `nacionalur moZraobas~ Soris,xelisuflebam gadakrulad ki ar undaisaubros, pirdapir Tqvas amis Sesaxeb. Tu amisdamamtkicebeli sabuTebi ar gaaCniaT, maSin rauflebiT arRveven udanaSaulobis prezumpfciasda ra uflebiT abralebs, praqtikulad,teroristul aqts politikur organizacias,romelic arCevnebSia CarTuli?! es arisukanono meTodebi da brZola wesebis gareSe~kovidi mniSvnelovani gamowvevaa,magram arCevnebze wasvla umniSvnelovanesia.usafrTxoebis wesebisdacvis SemTxvevaSi kovidisganTavis dacva Zalian martivia. veranairadgamova ise, rom adamianmagaresamyarosTan mTlianad gawyvitoskavSiri. am xalxma arCevnebiciseT movaleobad unda miiCnios,rogorc maRaziaSi Casvla da bavSvisTvissaWmlis amotana._ saarCevnod Zalian aqtualuriakvlevebi. bevr politi-koss kvlevis Sedegebze mwvavereaqcia aqvs. Tqveni partiis war-momadgenlebi amboben, rom maT-Tvis es sakiTxi umniSvneloa.Tqvenc ase uyurebT kvlevisSedegebs?_ ra Tqma unda. me Zalian kargadvici, Tu vin da rogoratarebs am kvlevebs. SeuiaraRebeliTvaliTac ki Cans, Tu romelikvleva romeli partiis interesebsgamoxatavs. Cveni partiaivaniSvilis xelisuflebaSi mosvlamdefizikuri wnexis qveS iyo.2012 wels es fizikuri wnexi moixsna,magram axla Cveni partia moralurida finansuri wnexis qveSaa.Cvens momxreebs martivad eubnebodnendRevandeli xelisuflebiswarmomadgenlebi, _ muSaobisdawyeba Tu ginda, burjanaZispartiidan wamodi. ase rom Cvenimomxreebi araviTar SemTxvevaSiar amboben, Tu romel partias uWerenmxars. me Tavad veubnebi, romar Tqvan amis Sesaxeb. 2016 welsxelisuflebas Cveni momxreebissia hqonda. maTTan midiodnen daeubnebodnen, _ Tu burjanaZis mxardamWerixar da sxvisTvis xmismicemas ar apireb, ise mainc gaakeTe,rom arCevnebze saerTod arwaxvideo._ ratom iyo aseTi moTxovna?dRes rom „qarTuli ocneba” xe-lisuflebaSia, es xom 2011 wlis26 maisis damsaxurebaa. ivaniSvil-ma Tqva, rom am sisxliani RamisSemdeg gadawyvita politikaSimosvla. es aqcia Tqvenma partiamda saxalxo krebam moawyo. „qarT-uli ocnebis” liderisTvis aSk-arad ad miuRebeli figura xarT dara aris amis mizezi?_ biZina ivaniSvili da „qarTuliocneba” arasdros amboben, romCveni partiis aqtiurobis Sedegadmovidnen xelisuflebaSi. esec6 N26 (328) 27.10-.2.11.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.comarCevnebze unda gadavagdoT~rom ar iyos, „ocnebis” liderisTvisburjanaZe, rogorc figura,miuRebelia. misTvis miuRebelianebismieri damoukidebeli adamiani.misTvis miuRebelia aseve ise-Ti adamiani, romelsac masze kargadicnoben diplomatiuri korpusiswarmomadgenlebi da ucxoelipolitikosebi. Zalian ar minda,misi ojaxis wevrebs Sevexo,magram erT-erT interviuSi misiSvili ambobs, rom biZinas ise elaparakebian,rogorc Sua saukuneebisdid mefeebs. araviTar SemTxvevaSiar vapireb ivaniSvils isevesaubro, rogorc qveSevrdomielaparakeba mefes. aqedan gamomdinarearis misTvis burjanaZe miuRebeli._ amasTan erTad, Tqven prin-cipulic xarT: 2008 wlisarCevnebis win, principebis gamo,uari TqviT saarCevno siis prvelnomrobaze da momavali parlamentisspikerobaze. maSin iTqva,rom siaSi Tqveni gundis Cas-mis ufleba ar mogces da amitomwaxvediT._ „nacionalebma” maSin aseTipiari aagores: nino burjanaZe imitomki ar wavida, rom raRacebiar moswonda, aramed imitom, rommisi xalxi ar Caweres saarCevnosiaSio._ wasvlis erT-erTi mizezixom esec iyo?_ ra Tqma unda. „nacionalebs”egonaT, rom maT mier agorebulipiari Cemze cudad imoqmedebda.maxsovs, maSin Jurnalistebi niSnismogebiT meubnebodnen, _ Tqvenimitom waxvediT, rom siaSi Tqvenixalxi ar Cawereso. mimaCnia, romZalian swori gavakeTe, es gadawyvetilebarom miviRe. mxolodmandatze ar miTqvams uari, me parlamentisgarantirebul TavmjdomareobazecvTqvi uari. uarivTqvi, imitom rom ar mindoda,mxolod parlamentis sxdomebiswamyvani vyofiliyavi._ 2004-2008 wlebSi gyavdaTparlamentSi Tqveni gundi? maSi-nac xom parlamentis spikeriiyaviT?_ 2004-2008 wlebis mowvevisparlamentSi Cemi avtoriteti jerkidev maZlevda imis SesaZleblobas,rom saakaSvilisa da „nacionalebis”gadawyvetilebebze zegavlenamomexdina._ mere ra moxda? rogordaikarga es gavlena?_ me kargad vxedavdi, rom dro-Ta ganmavlobaSi isini momagrdnenda Cemi sityva sul ufro naklebiwonis matarebeli iqneboda, Tukime parlamentSi ar meyolebodasakuTari gundi. amis gamo vTqviuari qveyanaSi meore piris Tanamdebobazeda wavedi opoziciaSi. esim dros gavakeTe, roca qveyanaSiavtokratiuli mmarTveloba iyo._ opoziciaSi Tqvenma gadasvlamTqvens meuRlesac daakargv-ina Tanamdeboba. badri biwaZesasazRvro policiis ufrosi gax-ldaT._ ase iyo. dRemde mimaCnia, rommaSin Zalian swori da principuligadawyvetileba miviRe. 31 oqtombersukve mosaxleobam undamiiRos principuli gadawyvetileba.„qarTuli ocnebis” warmomadgenlebimidian Cvens momxreebTanda eubnebian, nino burjanaZe maincver mova xelisuflebaSi da mis-Tvis xmis micemas ra azri aqvs,amitom arCevnebis dRes saxlSidasxediTo. „qarTuli ocnebisa”da Cveni momxreebis gasagonadunda vTqva, rom Cven aucilebladmovalT xelisuflebaSi, oRondara erTpirovnulad. Cven xelisuflebaSikoaliciur mTavrobasTanerTad movalT, romelsacmravalpartiuli parlamenti daakompleqtebs.aseT dros didimniSvneloba aqvs TiToeul xmas.udidesi mniSvneloba aqvs imasac,Tu ramdeni kaci meyoleba parlamentSi.ramdenime kacs Cveni partiauproblemod gaiyvans sakanonmdebloorganoSi, magram CvengvWirdeba ufro meti._ risTvis gWirdebaT es ufrometi adamiani parlamentSi?_ Tundac im mniSvnelovaniprogramis gansaxorcieleblad,romelic araerTxel warvadgineT.eqspertebma Cveni programa erTerTsaukeTesod aRiares. es pro-N26 (328) 27.10-.2.11.2020 w.`marTalia, evrokavSiris misia ver Camodis, magram, sabednierod,saqarTveloSi arian ucxoeli damkvirveblebi. Cvens yvela Sexvedraseswrebodnen euTo-odiris damkvirveblebi. saqarTveloSi akreditebulmaelCebma bevri gaakeTes imisTvis, rom maTi qveynebidan Camosuliyogarkveuli raodenobis damkvirvebeli. am procesSi Tavad saelCoebisTanamSromlebic CaerTvebian~grama rom ganvaxorcieloT, parlamentSiseriozuli Zala gvWirdeba._ Tqveni partiis mimarT „oc-nebas” uamravi pretenzia aqvs.erT-erT maTgans sazogadoebisnawilic iziarebs. amboben, rogordajda burjanaZe „nacionalebTan”,romelmac mas da mis mo-mxreebs 26 maisi mouwyoo. argagiWirdaT maTTan erTad daj-doma?_ me Zalian mkafiod vTqvi, romCveni TanamSromloba vano merabiSvilTangamoricxulia. isicnaTlad vTqvi, rom Tu merabiSviliiqneboda maJoritarobis kandidati,nika meliasgan gansxvavebiT,mas arasdros davuWerdiTmxars. nika melia marTalia, „nacionalebis”wevria, magram masaqvs Cveni mxardaWera._ ratom aqvs nika melias Tqve-ni partiis mxardaWera?_ ubralod, usamarTlobaa,nika melias wauyeno pretenziebi„nacionalebis” gafuWebul saqmeebze.Zalian kargad vici, rom 2007`me Zalian mkafiod vTqvi, rom CveniTanamSromloba vano merabiSvilTangamoricxulia. isic naTlad vTqvi, rom TumerabiSvili iqneboda maJoritarobiskandidati, nika meliasgan gansxvavebiT, masarasdros davuWerdiT mxars. nika meliamarTalia, `nacionalebis~ wevria, magram masaqvs Cveni mxardaWera~wlis 7 noembers nika melia saprotestoaqciaSi monawileobda da„naconalebis” sapirispiro mxaresidga._ Tqven maSin „nacionalebis”mxares iyaviT. magram darbevisdros Tqveni brZanebiT gaaResparlamentis ezos kari, sadacbevrma adamianma Seafara Tavi._ amas, ratomRac, ar ixseneben.mimaCnia, rom maSin swori gadawyvetilebamiviRe. viRacebi cdiloben,rom 7 noemberi Cems Savlaqad warmoaCinon, rac namdviladusamarTlobaa._ aba, ras gerCiT „ocneba”,romlis didi nawili 7 noembrisdarbevas taSs ukravda? gan-sakuTrebiT irakli kobaxiZisagresiaa auxsneli. misi mSoblebiTqvens partiaSi iyvnen wlebismanZilze._ irakli kobaxiZis Sesaxeb imisTqma SemiZlia, rom is, pirvel rig-Si, sakuTar Tavs erCis. mas veravindauSavebda imdens, rac am adamianmasakuTar Tavs dauSava. isudavod niWieri axalgazrdaa,iurisprudencia kargad icis. masSeeZlo saqarTvelos istoriaSiZalian pozitiuri da kargi rolieTamaSa. amis magivrad man Zaliancudi kvali datova, me es mwyins._ ratom gwyinT?_ is sxvanairi maxsovs. Zalianwesieri, moridebuli da kargadaRzrdili axalgazrda iyo. is Cvenipartiis ofisSi xSirad modioda.misi mama, batoni gia kobaxiZe,Cveni partiis generaluri mdivaniiyo. gias meuRle da iraklis dedaCveni partiis politsabWos wevrigaxldaT. rodesac irakli kobaxiZegamodis da ambobs, rom TurmeburjanaZes raRac cudi saqmeebiukeTebia, es misi mxridan uxerxuladJRers. sxva Tu araferi, misimSoblebi Cveni partiis Zalian aqtiuriwevrebi iyvnen.irakli kobaxiZeze bevri saubariar minda, magram gverds veravuvli im Seuracxyofas, rac manJurnalistebs miayena. „mTavari”da „pirveli arxi” „glavni” da„pervi kanalebad” moixsenia. biZinaivaniSvilis partiisgan qarTuliarxebis rusul enaze moxseniebaZalian uxerxulia. sxva Tuaraferi, „qarTuli ocnebis” lidermaiSova 5 miliardi dolariruseTSi. Cven Zalian kargad viciT,rogor keTdeba ruseTSi fuli.viciT isic, Tu rogor keTdebodaam qveyanaSi gasuli saukunis90-ian wlebSi fuli. isic viciT,rogor gamodis mere am naSovnifulidan aseulobiT milioniruseTidan. Tu ameebs ar gagvaxseneben,maTTvisve iqneba ukeTesi.rac metad axsenebs kobaxiZe „pervikanals” da „glavni kanals”,amiT verc ki xvdeba, rom, pirvelrigSi, biZina ivaniSvils urtyams.ruseTTan mimarTebiT gamoyenebulinebismieri araswori isariivaniSvilisken wava. ruseTTan mimarTebiTswori politika „qar-Tulma ocnebam” ver dagvanaxa,magram is namdvilad gvaCvena, Turogor unda gadmoitano ruseTis90-iani wlebi saqarTveloSi._ mas Semdeg, rac opoziciadialogis magidas miujda, TqvenruseTume politikosis iarliyimogSordaT. yvelas gaukvirda,roca Tqven „mTavar” arxzeTqviT, ruseTi okupantia da masCemi qveynis teritoriebi aqvs ok-upirebulio._ me amas adrec vambobdi, magrammainc ruseTumed mTvlidnen.es imis problema iyo, rom adamianebsar hqondaT sruli informacia.unda iTqvas, rom boloerTi wlis manZilze yvela televizia,„imedis” garda, opoziciisTvisgaxsnilia. gamonaklisi arcme var. aman saSualeba momca, romamoWrebis gareSe melaparaka is,rasac aqamde vfiqrobdi. „mTavar”arxze axali araferi miTqvams.ruseTis centralur arxze gamosvlisasori wlis winaT vTqvi, romCemi qveynis teritoriaze rusuliCeqma ar unda iyos. es Cvens moqalaqeebamdear mivida.2008 wlidan Cveni partiisamocana iyo saqarTvelos evrostruqturebSigawevrianeba, CrdiloatlantikuraliansTan daaxloeba,xolo ruseTTan pirdapiridialogis warmoeba, raTa gamoricxuliyoam qveyanasTan konfrontacia.„nacionalebis” drosaraerTi preskonferencia maqvsCatarebuli. Jurnalisti mekiTxeboda,_ qalbatono nino, TqvenwaxvalT moskovSi? me amaze vpasuxobdi,_ me waval yvela qveynisdedaqalaqSi, sadac wasvla Cemsqveyanas dasWirdeba, mniSvnelobaar aqvs, es briuseli iqneba, vaSingtoni,Tu moskovi. Cems gancxadebebsCexdnen, eTerSi gadiodamxolod es fraza, _ me wavalmoskovSi. aseT triukebs wina xelisuflebaxSirad iyenebda. aseTrameebze uars arc „qarTuli ocneba”ambobs. Zalian uxerxulia,roca „qarTuli ocneba” „nacionalebTan”kavSirSi madanaSaulebs.„ocnebam” damnaSave „nacionaleb-Tan” mSvenivrad gadainawila biznesebida axla erTmaneTis biznespartniorebiarian. me imis gamomsayveduroben, qveynisTvismniSvnelovan sakiTxze ratom davjeqimolaparakebis magidasTan.CemTvis „nacionalebTan” erTaddajdoma ioli ar yofila, magramroca es qveyanas sWirdeba, maSinmosisxle mterTan erTadac undadajde molaparakebebze.7
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