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laSa berulava<br />
577 20 86 13<br />
„erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis”<br />
erT-erTi lideri, nika melia, miiCnevs, rom giga bok-<br />
eriam enm-Si sadamsjelo eqspedicia moawyo da es maSin, roca<br />
partiidan wasvla ukve gadawyvetili hqonda. misi TqmiT, bokeria<br />
imdenad gaaRiziana politsabWos kenWisyris dros dama-<br />
rcxebam, rom berketebis flobis SemTxvevaSi, partiaSi droe-<br />
biTi dakavebis izolatorsac ki gaxsnida da masac da sxvebsac<br />
Casvamda. „qronika+”-Tan saubrisas nika melia arc gigi ugulavas<br />
kritikas moridebia da pirdapir Tqva, rom is politpa-<br />
timrad da „nacionaluri moZraobis” wevrad Sevida cixeSi, ma-<br />
gram iqidan ukve sxva partiis wevrad gamovida.<br />
pirveli SekiTxva, rac nika me-<br />
lias davusviT, cixeSi myof<br />
partiis generalur mdivans, vano<br />
merabiSvils ukavSirdeboda:<br />
_ Tu aris garkveuli da cnobili,<br />
viwro wreSi mainc, ra pozi-<br />
cia aqvs vano merabiSvils da<br />
apirebs Tu ara is am poziciis<br />
gamJRavnebas?<br />
_ vano merabiSvili politpatimaria,<br />
Cveni partiis generaluri<br />
mdivani da Cven yvela misi poziciis<br />
dafiqsirebas velodebiT. Cemi<br />
informaciiT, is am dromde am dapirispirebaSi<br />
ar Careula da arc<br />
erTi mxare ar dauWeria, magram,<br />
Cveni azriT, man Tavisi pozicia<br />
unda gamoxatos da me mjera, rom<br />
gamoxatavs kidec.<br />
_ uSvebT SesaZleblobas, rom<br />
is partiis yrilobis Catarebas<br />
elodebodes, rom an gadairCion,<br />
an xelaxla airCion generalur<br />
mdivnad, mxardaWeris xarisxs<br />
daakvirdes da gadawyvetileba<br />
amis Semdeg miiRos?<br />
_ amaze verafers getyviT, danamdvilebiT<br />
mxolod imis Tqma SemiZlia,<br />
rom vano merabiSvili politikuri<br />
patimaria, is Cveni partiis<br />
genmdivania da, rasakvirvelia, yrilobaze,<br />
misi nebis sawinaaRmdegod<br />
an masTan SeuTanxmeblad ar vapirebT<br />
mis gadarCevas da sxva<br />
piris arCevas. yvelani velodebiT<br />
mis pozicias imasTan dakavSirebiT,<br />
Tu sad xedavs sakuTar Tavs.<br />
_ gigi ugulavam ganacxada, rom<br />
is, jer kidev, 2013 wels upir-<br />
ispirdeboda mwvaved mixeil<br />
saakaSvils, roca is prezidenti<br />
iyo da eubneboda, rom qveynis<br />
pirveli piris postisTvis miexe-<br />
da, xolo partiis Tavmjdomare<br />
sxva yofiliyo. Tqven, vinc 2013<br />
wels mixvediT enm-Si, gsmeniaT Tu<br />
ara Tavad ugulavasgan, an vinme<br />
sxvisgan am dapirispirebis arse-<br />
bobis Sesaxeb?<br />
_ ara, rasakvirvelia, aranairi<br />
msgavsi dapirispirebisa da saubris<br />
Sesaxeb ar msmenia da, saerTod,<br />
gigi ugulavas gamonaTqvamebi Cem-<br />
Si did gaocebas iwvevs, radgan „nacionalur<br />
moZraobaze” ise saubrobs,<br />
rogorc ar saubroben yvelaze<br />
mwvave kritikosebic ki „qarTuli<br />
ocnebidan”. samwuxaroa, magram<br />
faqtia. iciT, ra xdeba? gareT<br />
rom gaxvide da TavSi aguri dageces,<br />
SeiZleba, es marTlac SemTxveviToba<br />
iyos, magram cxovrebaSi aris<br />
epizodebi, roca TavSi aguris<br />
dacemas SemTxveviTobas ver miawer...<br />
_ anu kidev erTxel adas-<br />
turebT, rom rasac gigi ugulava<br />
akeTebs da, zogadad, rac enm-Si<br />
moxda, ivaniSvilis xels xedavT?<br />
_ rasakvirvelia, ar viqnebi gulwrfeli,<br />
am kiTxvaze Tu gipasuxebT,<br />
rom ivaniSvilis xels ver vxedav.<br />
ivaniSvilis xeli rom Cans gigi<br />
ugulavas gamoSvebaSi, esec cxadze<br />
cxadia, sxvagvarad vinme fiqrobs?<br />
vinmes eWvi epareba, rom ugulava<br />
ivaniSvilma daiWira da ivaniSvilmave<br />
gamouSva? adre vTqvi da axlac<br />
gavimeoreb, me is ufro maocebs,<br />
rom es kaci, vinc ivaniSvilma<br />
daiWira da ivaniSvilma gamouSva,<br />
saakaSvilze brazobs. samwuxaroa,<br />
magram faqtia, rom gigi ugulava<br />
biZina ivaniSvilma daiWira, rogorc<br />
„nacionaluri moZraobis” wev-<br />
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
nika melia:<br />
ri, magram is cixidan gamouSva,<br />
rogorc ukve sxva partiis wevri...<br />
_ is, rom gigi ugulava ivaniS-<br />
vilis gamoSvebulia, arc giga bo-<br />
kerias uaruyvia, oRond, is amb-<br />
obs, rom, adre Tu gvian, yvela po-<br />
litpatimari ganTavisufldeba<br />
da, ubralod, ugulavasTan mima-<br />
rTebiT es adre moxda, radgan<br />
sxvadasxva faqtorma, ZiriTadad<br />
ki, saerTaSoriso zewolam imoqme-<br />
da...<br />
_ me kidev erTxel gavimeoreb,<br />
rom gigi ugulava politpatimari<br />
iyo da cixidan gamosvlis Semdeg<br />
is rom mosuliyo partiaSi, xelebi<br />
daekapiwebina da eTqva, aba, axla<br />
saqmes mivxedoTo, vis moubrundeboda<br />
ena mis sawinaaRmdegod? magram<br />
is, rac man ganTavisuflebis<br />
Semdeg gaakeTa, aranair logikaSi<br />
ar jdeba: mas unda warmoaCinos,<br />
rom partia daingra da daiSala,<br />
rac ase aranairad araa. rogor Sei-<br />
Zleba, ase iyos, Tuki partiaSi rCeba<br />
umravlesoba da mxolod mcire<br />
nawili midis? ase ingreva partia?<br />
cxadia, ara. gigi ugulavas pozicia<br />
cixis karebSive gaxda cnobili,<br />
roca gamovida da „biblioTekis<br />
uklonistebi” uwoda jgufs, romelic<br />
axla umravlesobaSia. es iyo<br />
misi pirveli gzavnili, xolo Semdeg<br />
muSaoba swored am mimarTulebiT<br />
gaagrZela, rom warmoeCina,<br />
TiTqos partia daingra da daiSala...<br />
_ TqvenTvis winaswar iyo cno-<br />
bili imis Sesaxeb, Tu ra pozicias<br />
daikavebdnen giga bokeria da misi<br />
mxardamWerebi?<br />
_ diax, CemTvis am jgufis sajaro<br />
gancxadebamde erTi TviT adre<br />
iyo cnobili ori ram: rom bokeria<br />
da misi gundi partiidan gegmavda<br />
gasvlas da rom ivaniSvili gigi<br />
ugulavas yrilobamde gamouSvebda.<br />
amis Sesaxeb me saubari mqonda<br />
giga bokeriasTanac da gigi ugulavasTanac,<br />
roca mas sasjelaRsrulebis<br />
dawesebulebaSi Sevxvdi...<br />
_ anu Tavdapirveli gegma eg<br />
iyo? partiidan gasvlas vgulisx-<br />
mob. Tu enm-Si darCenas da, ro-<br />
gorc am process Searqves, „saakaSvilisTvis<br />
partiis axevas” cdi-<br />
lobdnen?<br />
`giga bokerias<br />
rom berketebi<br />
hqonoda,<br />
partiaSi<br />
droebiTi<br />
dakavebis<br />
izolators<br />
gaxsnida~<br />
_ ara, rasakvirvelia, Tavdapirveli<br />
gegma ar yofila partiis<br />
datoveba, isini amas ar apirebdnen,<br />
giga bokerias gunds rom politsabWos<br />
kenWisyris dros ar waego,<br />
sadac 7-aTasiani yrilobis Catareba<br />
gadawyda. es wageba iyo gadamwyveti<br />
faqtori, ris gamoc giga bokeriam,<br />
mis gundTan erTad, partiis<br />
datoveba gadawyvita da, rac<br />
yvelaze metad samwuxaroa, gadawyvita,<br />
partia ise daetovebina, rom<br />
maqsimalurad evno misTvis: misi<br />
iniciativiT partiis centraluri<br />
ofisidan gaaTavisufles uamravi<br />
adamiani, TanamSromlebi, romlebic<br />
mas ar eTanxmebodnen da mis mxardamWerebad<br />
ar moiazrebodnen,<br />
aseve, bokeriam partiuli siidan<br />
amoyara is adamianebi, romlebic<br />
mas mxars ar uWerdnen da es yvelaferi<br />
gaakeTa maSin, roca partiidan<br />
wasvla ukve gadawyvetili<br />
hqonda...<br />
_ ukve meored axsenebT, rom<br />
partiidan wasvla hqondaT gadaw-<br />
yvetili. rodidan hqondaT es<br />
gadawyvetili?<br />
_ rogorc ki giga bokeriam 30<br />
noembris politsabWos kenWisyraze<br />
waago, sadac gadawyda, rom mravalaTasiani<br />
yriloba Catardeboda,<br />
isic da misi momxreebic sajarod<br />
Riad gamoTqvamdnen mzadyofnas,<br />
rom yrilobis samzadisSi miiRebdnen<br />
monawileobas, rom emorCilebi-<br />
giga bokeria<br />
an politsabWos gadawyvetilebas,<br />
rom swored es aris Sidapartiuli<br />
demokratia... sinamdvileSi ki<br />
sapirispiros sCadiodnen, yvelaferi<br />
gaakeTes imisTvis, rom partiisTvis<br />
evnoT... sadRac, 5 dekembers,<br />
me maT Sevxvdi da velaparake.<br />
maSin ukve vicodi, rom partiis datovebas<br />
apirebdnen, magram maSin<br />
ambobdnen, rom isini ar apirebdnen<br />
partiidan wasvlas adgilobrivi<br />
TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebamde,<br />
rac ar iyo gulwrfeli da<br />
damajerebeli. es Semdeg maleve<br />
gamoCnda kidec.<br />
faqti ki isaa, rom rac im kenWisyris<br />
wagebis Semdeg giga bokeriam<br />
gaakeTa, swored amis gamo iyo,<br />
rom „nacionaluri moZraobis”<br />
mmarTvelobas ver itandnen _ es<br />
iyo angariSsworeba, sadamsjelo<br />
eqspedicia... swored es mesmoda<br />
amomrCevlebisgan sul enm-s Sesaxeb,<br />
rom ki, isini moazrovne xalxia,<br />
SeuZliaT reformebis gatareba,<br />
magram am reformebis gzaze yvelafers<br />
ikadreben da yvelafers gadauvliano...<br />
es daadastura swored<br />
giga bokerias imdroindelma saqcielma,<br />
radgan is, elementarulad,<br />
damarcxebas ver Seegua...<br />
axla warmoidgineT, rom giga<br />
bokerias im minimalur berketze<br />
meti hqonoda, rasac partiaSi berketis<br />
floba gulisxmobs, Tundac,<br />
saxelisuflebo... albaT, misi neba<br />
rom yofiliyo, partiaSi droebi-<br />
Ti dakavebis izolators gaxsnida<br />
da iq Camsvamda mec da yvela sxvasac,<br />
imdenad ver Seegua imas, rom<br />
damarcxda...<br />
_ axla ori sityviT Tqveni<br />
kievuri Sexvedrebis Sesaxeb mixeil<br />
saakaSvilTan. vici, rom konfidencialuri<br />
saubris detaleb-<br />
is gamJaRvnebas ar apirebT, magram<br />
vTqvaT, imaze Tu ilaparakeT,<br />
rom, magaliTad, 20 ianvars yri-<br />
lobacaa da aSS-is prezidentis<br />
inauguraciac, sadac saakaSvilia<br />
miwveuli?<br />
_ diax, ra Tqma unda, roca teqnikur<br />
detalebze visaubreT, es<br />
sakiTxebic gaviareT. cnobilia,<br />
rom yrilobaze dagegmilia mixeil<br />
saakaSvilis CarTva, rom man enm-s<br />
yrilobis delegatebsa da mowveul<br />
stumrebs mimarTos da es ise<br />
unda gavakeToT, trampis inauguraciaze<br />
yofnis gamo xeli ar See-<br />
Salos...<br />
_ ise, „ocnebis” mxardamWerebi<br />
da „SuaSistebis” nawili rom am-<br />
boben, inauguraciis bileTebi<br />
Cveulebriv iyideba da yvelas<br />
SeuZlia misi yidva, saakaSvilmac<br />
swored ase iyidao, eg Tu icis?<br />
_ Tundac ase SeiZlebodes bileTis<br />
yidva, Zalian sasaciloa<br />
imis mtkiceba, rom mixeil saakaSvili<br />
iq miwvevis gareSe mividoda.<br />
rasakvirvelia, me detalebi ar<br />
vici, magram, cxadia, rom mixeil<br />
saakaSvili inauguracias miwveuli<br />
stumris statusiT daeswreba.<br />
_ zogadad, ganaxlebuli enm-s<br />
marTvaze, distanciis problemaze<br />
saubari Tu gqondaT?<br />
_ mixeil saakaSvilis pozicia am<br />
sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT Secvlili<br />
ar aris: is miiCnevs, rom partia<br />
ekuTvnis mis mxardamWerebs, aqtivistebs,<br />
romlebic adgilze politsabWos<br />
wevrebs ndobas gamoucxadeben.<br />
ZiriTadi gadawyvetilebebi adgilze<br />
miiReba, rasakvirvelia, mixeil<br />
saakaSvilTan konsultaciiT, Tumca<br />
misi iniciativaa swored is, rom<br />
gadawyvetilebebi adgilze iyos<br />
miRebuli, rasac Semdeg is mxars<br />
dauWers. da, zogadad, „erTiani nacionaluri<br />
moZraobis” ganaxleba<br />
aris ara is, rom partiuli siis pirveli<br />
aTeuli ganaxldeba, aramed<br />
swored is, rom partiis marTvis stili<br />
Seicvleba da is daubrundeba<br />
xalxs, aqtivistebsa da mxardamWerebs,<br />
vis mxrebzec gadadis ivaniSvilis<br />
araformalur mmarTvelobasTan<br />
brZolis mTeli simZime...<br />
6 N1 (178) 17.01-23.01.2017 w.
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