SENATE

20 SENATE Thursday, 13 October 2016
that there is something not quite right and not yet quite good enough about how our parliamentary oversight of
these matters is conducted and managed, I take that very seriously.
I know that these amendments are just adjustments in the way we currently operate; but they are important
adjustments and they were put forward by no less than former Senator John Faulkner, who himself has reflected
very carefully on these issues. What is proposed is the removal of the current constraints on the membership of the
committee to provide that except for a minimum representation of one government member and senator and one
opposition member and senator the balance of the 11 members of the committee can be drawn from either
chamber. The current rules on who is eligible to be a member are fairly arbitrary in terms of saying we have this
many from this chamber and that many from that chamber. That does not give the Labor Party, which takes this
matter very seriously—or, for that matter, other parties—the capacity to appoint the people who are best placed to
scrutinise these issues.
When you have six members and five senators, that is a very arbitrary thing to do. So it is important that this
parliament has more flexibility in determining the membership of this joint committee. It will allow for the joint
committee to be made up of members who are more expert in this field, without the constraint of whether they are
a member or a senator. For example, I remember discussing with my new colleague Anne Aly MP, the member
for Cowan, the fact that, while she has considerable expertise in this area, it is very difficult for her to get a
position on the committee—because, by the time you put the shadow defence minister on the committee, or the
Leader of the Opposition or others who are also a priority, there is no room left for her to be on the committee. So
perhaps someone in the Labor Party might like to make a decision that a Labor senator might be able to give up
their place for someone like Anne Aly. These constraints also mean that our shadow Attorney-General, the
Honourable Mark Dreyfus, has been unable to serve on the committee because of the limited number of positions
available to opposition members of the House of Representatives. So having more flexible membership
provisions, without affecting the political balance of the committee, would enable the committee to benefit from
this experience and expertise.
As previous senators have noted, this bill does not amend the requirement for the government to hold a
majority on the committee. As a senator who has been a member of a number of committees and a chair of a
committee, I think I am in a good position to reflect on the operation of committees. We are constantly faced with
leading to deliberate on and renew our sense of how we balance our decision-making and deal with important
national issues. We need to ensure that we connect in this place good decision-making to proper processes that
scrutinise all avenues and outcomes of legislation.
The bill provides the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security capacity to conduct its own
motions and inquiries after consultation with the responsible minister. I certainly think this is an important
provision. When there is public debate about issues such as arbitrary intention or the quality of the intelligence
that the parliament and the committee are receiving, there may not always be alignment between the views of the
committee and the views of the minister. That means if a committee wants to interrogate those issues further they
really need to be able to say to the minister: 'There is an important national security issue at stake here. It is time
for us to be able to look more deeply into these issues.' This is an important extension but an essential one to
enhance the oversight role of this committee.
This would bring the parliamentary joint committee in line with equivalent parliamentary committees in the US
and the UK, which already have this power. But here in the Australian parliament our legislatures have,
comparatively speaking, handed more power to government and more power to the agencies, while our
parliamentary committees have been relatively more constrained in their capacity for scrutiny. In 2013 the UK's
Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament was reformed by the passage of the Justice and Security Act
2013. So we now need to be able to keep up with these international movements.
The PRESIDENT: The time for the debate has expired, so we will now move on to other items on the agenda.
Are there any notices of motion to be given for another day? Senator Kakoschke-Moore.
NOTICES
Carly Ryan Foundation
Withdrawal
Senator KAKOSCHKE-MOORE (South Australia) (12:07): I wish to withdraw general business notice of
motion No. 89 standing in my name and Senator Xenophon's name.
Senator Siewert to move:
That the Senate—
Presentation
CHAMBER