Горизонт N2/831

RUSSIAN DENVER / HORIZON
8
BY NIKOLAUS BLOME,
KAI DIEKMANN and DANIEL
BISKUP (Fotos)
BILD: Mr President, 25 years
ago, we celebrated the end of
the Cold War. Now we have just
had a year of more crises and
wars than ever before. What
went so horribly wrong in the
relationship between Russia
and the West?
Vladimir Putin: That is the
big question. We have done everything
wrong.
BILD: Everything?
Putin: From the beginning,
we failed to overcome Europe’s
division. 25 years ago, the Berlin
Wall fell, but invisible walls were
moved to the East of Europe.
This has led to mutual misunderstandings
and assignments
of guilt. They are the cause of all
crises ever since.
BILD: What do you mean?
When did this development escalate?
Putin: Back in 2007, many
people criticized me for my talk
at the Munich Security Conference.
But what did I say there?
I merely pointed out that the
former NATO Secretary General
Manfred W?rner had guaranteed
that NATO would not expand
eastwards after the fall of the
Wall. Many German politicians
had also warned about such a
step, for instance Egon Bahr.
(Putin has his spokesperson
hand him a thin folder. It contains
transcripts of talks that, among
others, Bahr led in Moscow back
then. “This had never been published,”
Putin says.)
BILD: What kind of talks
were these?
Putin: Over the course of the
year 1990, the then Chancellor
Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister
Hans-Dietrich Genscher
had many conversations with
President Gorbachev and other
Soviet officials.
(Now Putin reads out, in Russian,
the transcript of an exchange
with Egon Bahr. His index finger
follows each line on the paper.)
Putin: This, for instance, is
what Egon Bahr said on June 26,
1990: “If we do not now undertake
clear steps to prevent a division
of Europe, this will lead to
Russia’s isolation.” Bahr, a wise
man, had a very concrete suggestion
as to how this danger
could be averted: the USA, the
then Soviet Union and the concerned
states themselves should
redefine a zone in Central Europe
that would not be accessible
to NATO with its military structures.
Bahr even said: If Russia
agreed to the NATO expansion,
he would never come to Moscow
again. (Putin laughs quietly.)
BILD: Did he ever come
back to Moscow?
Putin: (still laughing) To be
honest, I don’t know.
BILD: But seriously: the
central European states wanted
to become NATO members by
their own volition. They expected
security for themselves
from this step.
Putin: I have heard this a
thousand times. Of course every
state has the right to organize its
security the way it deems appropriate.
But the states that were
already in NATO, the member
states, could also have followed
their own interests – and abstained
from an expansion to the
east.
BILD: Should NATO just
have said no? It wouldn’t have
survived that, because…
(Putin asks back, suddenly in
German, ignoring the interpreter):
Why not?
BILD: Because it is part of
NATO’s rules and self-understanding
to accept free countries
as members if they want to
and if they fulfill certain conditions.
Putin: (still in German) Who
has written these rules? The politicians,
right?
(The President then switches
back to Russian.)
Putin: Nowhere is it written
that NATO had to accept certain
countries. All that would have
been required to refrain from
doing so was the political will.
But people didn’t want to.
BILD: Why, do you think,
was this the case?
Putin: NATO and the USA
wanted a complete victory over
the Soviet Union. They wanted
to sit on the throne in Europe
alone. But now they are sitting
there, and we are talking about
all these crises we would otherwise
not have. You can also see
this striving for an absolute triumph
in the American missile
defense plans.
BILD: But the USA’s missile
defense shield – should it ever
be installed – is merely defensive,
isn’t it?
Putin: In 2009, US President
Obama said that the missile defense
only serves as protection
from Iranian nuclear missiles.
But now there is an international
treaty with Iran that bans Tehran
N02/831 от 01.15.2016 e-mail: info@gorizont.com Simply the best
Vladimir Putin: The Interview
ВНИМАНИЮ ВЛАДЕЛЬЦЕВ КРУПНЫХ,
СРЕДНИХ И МАЛЫХ БИЗНЕСОВ!
Закаленный в победах доблестный отряд
славных вебмастеров газеты "Горизонт"
объявляет о начале грандиозного строительства...
единой русской электронной общины Колорадо.
by Islamist terrorism not create
a new commonality between
Russia and the West?
Putin: Yes, we should cooperate
much more closely in fighting
terrorism, which is a great challenge.
Even if we do not always
agree on every aspect, nobody
should take this as an excuse to
declare us as enemies.
BILD: Since you are talking
about a great challenge: is
Crimea, by comparison, really
worth damaging Russia’s relationship
with the West that
severely?
Putin: What do you mean by
“Crimea”?
Интернет сайты ВСЕХ русских
BILD: The
бизнесов
one-sided movement
of borders in a Europe
и частных предпринимателей that is based, in particular, on
на одном гигантском портале. respecting state borders.
from developing a potential military
Russian relationship today? Putin: For me, it means: hunational
nuclear project. The Inter-
Все бизнесы Putin: We могут had a принять very good участие man beings. в проекте
Atomic Energy Agency situation in 2005. The common BILD: Human beings?
is controlling this, the sanctions budget
СОВЕРШЕННО
had a volume of 80
БЕСПЛАТНО
billion
dollars от особенностей per year. Thousands других in the видов Ukrainian рекламы. capital of Kiev
Putin: The nationalists’ coup
against Iran are lifted – but независимо still
the US are working on their missile
of jobs were created in Germany in February 2014 has hugely
defense system. Only recent-
by Russian investments. At the scared 2.5 million Russian people
ly a treaty with Spain was Это signed, same Новогодний time, a large number подарок
of living on Crimea. So what did we
a deployment in Romania is being
prepared, the same will hap-
in Russia. There were countless have not fired, not a single per-
German companies invested do? We have not gone to war, we
от газеты "Горизонт"
pen in Poland in 2018, and in
Для
cultural
этого
and social
надо
contacts.
занести
And
информацию
son was killed. Our soldiers have
Turkey, a radar unit is being installed.
What is the point of this?
today? The trade volume is half merely prevented the Ukrainian
о своем
as much,
бизнесе
only about
ДО НОВОГО
40 billion
ГОДА
troops
по
on
адресу
Crimea from impeding
the freedom of expression of
BILD: You have now explained,
in detail, the mistakes www.gorizont.com/letmein
BILD: Would the Munich the people. In the referendum –
Euros.
that, from Russia’s perspective, Security Conference be a good which was still decided to take
the West has made. Has Russia opportunity to improve the place by the Crimea’s old parliament
– the majority of citizens
itself not made any mistakes? Все вопросы mood? по тел. 720-436-7613
Putin: Yes, we have made Putin: I will not come to Munich.
voted for belonging to Russia.
mistakes! We were too late. If
This is democracy, the people’s
we had presented our national BILD: What do you think will.
interests more clearly from the about the theory that there are BILD: But one cannot simply
beginning, the world would still two Vladimir Putins? One, until
challenge European state
be in balance today. After the
2007, the friend of the West, borders.
demise of the Soviet Union, we close friends with Chancellor Putin: For me, it is not borders
had many problems of our own Schr?der. And the other one after
and state territories that
for which no one was responsible
that: the cold warrior. matter, but people’s fortunes.
but ourselves: the economic Putin: I have never changed. BILD: What about international
downfall, the collapse of the welfare
I feel as young as I always did
law?
system, the separatism, and and remain close friends with Putin: Of course one always
of course the terror attacks that Gerhard Schr?der. But things has to follow international law.
shook our country. In this respect,
are different in the international This was also the case in Crimea.
we do not have to look for relations between states. In this According to the Charter of the
guilty parties abroad.
respect, I am neither a friend, United Nations, every people has
BILD: In your last interview nor bride or groom. I am the the right to self-determination.
with BILD, ten years ago, you president of 146 million Russians.
Just take Kosovo: back then,
said that Germany and Russia
I have to represent their UN bodies decided that Kosovo
had never been as close as in interests. We are willing to settle should become independent of
2005. What is left today of this this without any conflicts and to Serbia and that the interests of
special relationship?
search for compromises on the Serbia’s central government had
Putin: The mutual sympathy basis of international law. to be subordinated. You can read
of our peoples is and will remain Vergr??ern
that in all the records, also in the
the foundation of our relations. BILD: In the year 2000, you German ones.
BILD: And nothing has said that the most important BILD: But prior to that,
changed?
lesson from the Cold War is the Serbian central government
(Before speaking the next that there should never be any
had waged war against
sentence, the President starts to confrontation in Europe again. the Kosovo Albanians and had
sneer.)
Today this confrontation is driven thousands of them away.
Putin: Even with the help back. When will we get the first That’s a difference.
of anti-Russian propaganda in Putin back, the friend of the Putin: The fact is that there
the mass media, Germany has West?
was a long war in which Serbia
not succeeded in damaging this Putin: Once again, I’m still and its capital Belgrade were
sympathy…
the same. Take the fight against bombarded and attacked with
BILD: Do you mean BILD? terrorism: after the attacks of missiles. It was a military intervention
Putin: I do not mean you personally.
September 11, I was the first to
of the West and NATO
But of course Germany’s side with US President Bush. against the then rump Yugo-
media are heavily influenced by And now, after the attacks in slavia. Now I’m asking you: if
the country on the other side of Paris, I have done the same with the Kosovars have the right to
the Atlantic Ocean.
the President of France, Hollande.
self-determination, why should
BILD: That’s news to us. So
Terrorism threatens us all. people on Crimea not have it?
what is the state of the German- BILD: Does the threat posed I would say: everyone should