ZIP DOBYNS (Astrology) - Film Score Rundowns

ZIP DOBYNS ON COUNSELING
(Sunday, December 2, 1979)
Bernard Rosenblum is a psychotherapist M.D. in New York City, and he gave this
outline which happens to have twelve points. They are not related to the Zodiac signs--it
just happens to come out twelve. But we can relate them to some extent to factors in the
chart, and that is what I found as an interesting exercise to do. He tried to do it just a
little bit in his lecture, but he knows very little astrology. He's a very good therapist with,
I think, a very good understanding of psychology. Here I can bring in more of the
astrological correlates as we go along.
Not necessarily in order of importance, the following first point is nevertheless
very important:
(1) THE NEED FOR A SUPPORTIVE, NONJUDGMENTAL, INTERESTED,
OBJECTIVE ATTITUDE WHICH MUST BE GENUINE.
In other words, if you are going to work with someone, you need to be able to be
supportive & nonjudgmental (not looking down on them) but having respect for them,
accepting them as they are, and wanting to help them find a better life. It is the need to
be interested in them. It has to be genuine, sincere, and yet you also have to be objective.
If you get totally wrapped up in their problems, you are probably not going
to be of any help--you're going to be in there right with them. That's the difference
between seeing someone going down in quicksand and standing outside throwing a rope
OR crawling in with them.
For a counselor to have these qualities, we would want some water in the nature
for the person to be supportive and nurturing and empathic. We would want some air for
the counselor to be nonjudgmental, interested, and objective. So water and air really are
the elements of psychotherapy--the conscious and unconscious mind. It is the ability to
tune into the other person through the unconscious (water), and bring it up into
consciousness, and communicate it (air). If there is too much fire and earth, they are
going to be more likely to push or carry the client or just get impatient and give up. So
water and air, which are relatively passive elements, are still the good ones for
psychotherapy.
(2)THE CLIENT'S NEED TO BE UNDERSTOOD.
This is where the astrologer, on the one hand, has an enormous opportunity and
advantage over the psychotherapist; on the other hand, it is an enormous danger because
we think by looking at the chart we can really understand the person. This is true
sometimes if we are really good at what we are doing so that we can understand them
even before they say anything. It is also true that we do not have final answers in
astrology, and very frequently astrologers will jump to conclusions about the person
which are not true and will end up laying a trip on the client. And if the person is
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