Is THEM Guilty of Shirk? - Dr. Wesley Muhammad

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"himself" as a man, "he" already existed in order to create "himself." So, there is always something prior to that which is created.‖ While these are indeed relevant philo-theological questions, they are easily answerable. He is correct: if God ‗created‘ Himself, He had to in some way have already existed in order to create Himself. This is consistent with both the Supreme Wisdom of the Hon Elijah Muhammad, who taught that Allah first existed as a ‗force‘ within Triple Darkness, then He created His own Black body out of the matter of the pre-cosmic space; and the Sacred Science of Kemet, according to which the Great God first existed as a formless force and then, through His own Divine Will, created His own body. Where was He before He created the cosmos? The quote above from the Papyrus of Nes-Amsu provides a partial answer when it mentions: ―Heaven did not exist, and earth had not come into being and creeping things had not come into existence in that place and I raised them from out of Nu (the abyss) from a state of inactivity. I found no place there whereon I could stand. I worked a charm upon my own heart and I laid a foundation in Maat…‖ There was ‗no place for Him to stand‘, precisely as Bro Mubaashir suggests, until He ―laid a foundation‖ in Maat (whatever that might actually mean). Ironically, the Sunna answers this very question. According to a hadith on the authority of the Companion Abū Razin, found in Tirmidhi, Jāmia‟ al-Sahih, sura 11:1; Ibn Mājah, Sunan, 1, # 182; Ibn Hanbal, Musnad 12:17-20;and Tabari, Tafsir, 11:7, the Prophet was asked: ―Where was our Lord before he created the heavens and the earth?‖ The Prophet replied: ―He was in a cloud, with(out) air above him or below him. Then he created his throne on the water.‖ This is a beautiful example of the convergence of Egyptian Sacred Science and Islam. May Allah be please with Baba Rafiq Bilal. I await my Brother‘s responses. Salaam Bro Wesley 10.] Imam Salim Mu‟min Response Dr. Westley yes we are family and I am loving you more and more as you write. I will reply to this thread soon. I do have an engagement this weekend to prepare for, but i will respond. In the mean time think on what my Mama told me when i was a lil boy. She said, "Son if you put it in your head no one can take it from you. They may be able to lock your body up in prison but they can't lock up your mind once its free." Well, i guess im a Mama's boy. 11.] Dr Wesley Muhammad Response to Imam Salim Mu‟min Yes Sir Beloved. I sincerely love you as well and pray that we three can be instrumental in uniting the communties. This does not have to be unity on the basis of theological agreement. It can be untity on the basis of brotherhood/sisterhood and a common legacy going back to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and on the new basis of mutual respect for and respectful dissagreement with each other's interpretation of the Din. I know you love the Din, I hope you now know that I love the Din; this should be the factor that allows us to transcend our interpretive differences and unite unite the communities. I too must tend to other buisness as well now, so take your time. 42
Salaam 12.] Kyle J. Ismail –Response ASA family, I've watched this conversation for weeks and have enjoyed being a part of the audience. I interject at this point mainly to say that I really love the dialogue that is taking place and also adab or decorum of the discussion. I hope that no one thinks less of me for being entertained at the lack of decorum in some instances :)...It seems that some of us believe that consensus can be reached via ridicule or mischaracterizing the views of others. Not only do I believe that this is not the method.....hoping to come to an agreement is also not the goal. The goal instead is deep empthetic and compassionate listening that causes all involved to grow. As a supporter of Imam Mohammed many of us have not involved ourselves in debates and discussion of this nature and quality. His presence was always enough to put an end to any need to debate with great vigor because we trusted him (may Allah have mercy on him). I'm encouraged to speak now also because I feel that such a conversation, if properly valued, can help bring our communities together as believers and as spiritual descendants of the hon. Elijah Muhammad. Truthfully we need it, both in Imam Mohammed's (r.a.) affliation and in the NOI. This conversation is a reflection of how far we‘ve come and how conversant we‘ve become as students of quran, sunnah, and the classical tradition. Any time we engage in a public discourse on theology the process is more important than any specific goal – the goal to be closer to Allah (swt) and to one another (being that our relationship with Him is both vertical and horizontal). It doesn‘t take long to conclude (as nascent students of the classical tradition) that this argument is a very legitimate one. Anyone who‘s read anything of Ibn Taymiyya, ibn Qayyim Jawziyyah, and their leader Ahmed ibn Hanbal they indeed leaned in the direction of very conservative interpretations regarding how the text is to be approached and the arguments of immanence vs. transcendence emerged and re-emerged and I suppose will continue to as a part of what seems to be a historical dialectic in terms of how human beings see God in relation to themselves in society. What I appreciate most about the hon. Elijah Muhammad‘s conclusions about the nature of God is that he appreciated how inextricably tied together the notion of God to our social and anthropological realities. While Imam Mohammed dealt very deliberately with the notion of Fard being God (he engaged many things with nuance but he made haste in dealing with this concept) having had a tremendous amount of experiential knowledge he wanted to make a specific stand that he felt would connect us with Al-Islam proper. Dr Wesley I'm sure that you are aware that your ideas, and I believe them to be firmly within the boundaries of theological tolerance (to Borrow Ghazali via Dr. J), You may be creating some controversy inside the NOI because many of my friends within this org don‘t seem ideologically situated where you are. In any case I‘ve gone on a bit longer than what I intended. I‘d love for those who have participated in this conversation to blog about how we can come together as the spiritual heirs of Elijah Muhammad and get back on post for our community. – submissions@NewMuslimAmerican.com (on fb - http://www.facebook.com/NewMuslimAmerican). w/peaceSee More 13.] Nazim Abdul-Latif Response As Salaamu Alaikum my brothers and sisters of this group. I am currently reading the book my our brother Imam Michael Saahir THE HONORABLE ELIJAH MOHAMMED: The Man Behind The Men". In the 8 on pages 131 to 134, Imam Saahir discusses how Imam W.D. Mohammed took on a role of striking a death nell to a racial superiority of supremacy with the CRAID movement. I think this is worthy of our reading. No, I am not at this time answering Qur'an with Qur'anic text per se. However, I am attempting to establish Qur'anic and prophetic inspired actions to solve real world problems.Racism 43
Page 1 and 2: Is THEM Guilty of Shirk? The Long O
Page 3 and 4: ARGUMENT 1 First, Dr. Wesley refers
Page 5 and 6: your Allah is one Allah. So stand t
Page 7 and 8: "He ran the race." "He ran up the b
Page 9 and 10: He adds to his case by saying that
Page 11 and 12: Allah, only to turn around and say,
Page 13 and 14: In his review Bro Mubaashir display
Page 15 and 16: 1. Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal affirmed t
Page 17 and 18: came to the Prophet as a young man.
Page 19 and 20: Sunna is a formless, invisible God
Page 21 and 22: Salaam Bro Dr Wesley Muhammad 3.] D
Page 23 and 24: ―When the Prophet tells his peopl
Page 25 and 26: This issue of the significance of t
Page 27 and 28: ―So if it is said (by the believe
Page 29 and 30: When Imam Mubaashir stated; ―As a
Page 31 and 32: 7.] Dr Wesley Muhammad - Response P
Page 33 and 34: ownership rights over this Islam th
Page 35 and 36: secondary meaning ―He manifested
Page 37 and 38: 9.] Dr Wesley Muhammad - Response P
Page 39 and 40: people say, ―He (God) is solid,
Page 41: ―Within the pages of the Holy Qur
Page 45 and 46: 14.] Dr Wesley Muhammad Response As
Page 47 and 48: To negate an act of the past we may
Page 49 and 50: Fakhr al-Din Razi (d. 1209) who, am
Page 51 and 52: which He bestowed on Mary, and a sp
Page 53 and 54: After all, how could we believe thi
Page 55 and 56: things, whoever says any of which,
Page 57 and 58: We are all familiar with the Greek
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Page 63 and 64: different opinions between the Saha
Page 65 and 66: Ru‘ya, with one possible exceptio
Page 67 and 68: In the Pushkin State Museum of Fine
Page 69 and 70: the sociological enigma of the mode
Page 71 and 72: 23.] Imam Salim Mu‟min Response t

Is THEM Guilty of Shirk? - Dr. Wesley Muhammad

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