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arsebobs TanamSromlobis Zalian<br />
seriozuli formatebi. Tumca<br />
vfiqrob, rom is procesebi, rac<br />
axla midis amerikis SeerTebul<br />
StatebSi, saboloo jamSi, gamoaCens<br />
da cxads gaxdis, rom ideologiuri<br />
dapirispireba dasavleTsa<br />
da ruseTs Soris arsad wasula<br />
da grZeldeba. SesaZloa, aman<br />
garkveuli cvlilebebic gamoiwvios<br />
saqarTvelosTan da ukrainasTan<br />
mimarTebiT. vnaxoT, rogor<br />
dasruldeba es procesi, magram,<br />
yovel SemTxvevaSi imas, rasac Cven<br />
dRes vuyurebT amerikaSi, gamofxizlebis<br />
procesad SeiZleba Cai-<br />
Tvalos, ruseTTan mimarTebiT.<br />
_ anu isini, realurad, axla<br />
acnobiereben ruseTis namdvil<br />
saxes da imas, rac SeuZlia rus-<br />
eTs?<br />
_ 11 seqtembris cnobili teroristuli<br />
Tavdasxmis Semdeg, Zalian<br />
didxans, amerikis safrTxeebis<br />
Sefasebis sistemaSi terorizmi da,<br />
Sesabamisad, sxva regionebi gaxda<br />
prioriteti amerikisTvis, es iyo<br />
maTTvis mTavari gamowveva da ruseTma<br />
am nusxaSi qvemoT Camoinacvla.<br />
ruseTi ukve aRar iyo dapirispirebuli<br />
dasavleTTan, yovel<br />
SemTxvevaSi, deklarirebulad, arc<br />
aranairi ideologiuri baza ar gaaCnda<br />
im etapisTvis da aravin moiazrebda,<br />
rom Sedioda, an hqonda<br />
potenciali, an interesi, rom Sesuliyo<br />
seriozul ideologiur<br />
grZelvadian dapirispirebaSi dasavleTTan,<br />
amerikasTan. aRmoCnda,<br />
rom es molodini mcdari iyo. realurad,<br />
ideologiuri dapirispireba<br />
ruseTsa da dasavleTs Soris<br />
aqaa da viTardeba swored<br />
Cvens qveyanaSi, ukrainaSi, region-<br />
Si. regionSi ruseTis mTavari amocanaa<br />
daamtkicos, rom dasavluri,<br />
demokratiuli, liberaluri sistemebi<br />
ar aris funqcionirebadi,<br />
rom ar arsebobs civilizaciis is<br />
modeli, romelsac SeuZlia iarsebobs<br />
yofil sabWoTa sivrceSi. am<br />
ideologiur dapirispirebaSi ruseTi<br />
demokratias moiazrebs sisusted<br />
da, amave dros, swored<br />
demokratiuli sistemis gamoyenebiT<br />
cdilobs igi manipulirebas<br />
sxva qveynebSi. es moxda amerikaSi,<br />
es xdeba sxva qveynebSic, es<br />
moxda saqarTveloSic. ruseTi demokratias<br />
iyenebs demokratiis winaaRdeg.<br />
es kargad gamoaSkaravda<br />
amerikis arCevnebzec. vfiqrob,<br />
aqedan unda daiwyos raRac gamojanmrTelebis<br />
procesi im TvalsazrisiT,<br />
rom rodesac dainaxav<br />
problemas da daignozi gaqvs, iqidan<br />
iwyeba mkurnalobis procesic.<br />
_ anu seqtembris teraqtisas,<br />
rodesac aSS-m realurad gaiazra<br />
terorizmis safrTxe, im re-<br />
aluri gaazrebisas ukan morCa<br />
sxva safrTxe, kerZod, ruseTis da<br />
ukve axla, kiberTavdasxmis Sem-<br />
deg, gaacnobieres, rasTan da<br />
visTan aqvT saqme?<br />
_ diax, isini dganan Tanamedrove<br />
gamowvevebis winaSe, romelsac<br />
maT ruseTi uqmnis.<br />
_ da dRes, rodesac isini amx-<br />
ela gamowvevis winaSe dganan, da<br />
gasarkvevi aqvT, ramdenad iyo<br />
Careuli ruseTi maT arCevnebSi<br />
da TviTon am procesSi maTi<br />
dRevandeli prezidenti trampi,<br />
ar scaliaT saimisod, rom mixe-<br />
don ukrainas, saqarTvelos, ri-<br />
Tac sargebloben ivaniSvilic,<br />
poroSenkoc.<br />
_ ara, me ase ar vityodi, imitom<br />
rom es ideologiuri dapirispireba,<br />
romelic gamoaSkaravda<br />
ruseTsa da amerikas Soris, Cvenc<br />
gvexeba, imitom rom Seexeba swored<br />
demokratias da demokratiuli<br />
sistemis arsebobas am regionSi.<br />
amitom me vfiqrob da darwmunebuli<br />
var, rom am mimdinare gamowvevebis<br />
fonze, Cvens qveynebSi<br />
demokratiisa da demokratiuli<br />
mmarTvelobis xelSewyoba amerikis<br />
prioritetad darCeba. minda, kidev<br />
erTxel vTqva: me ver vxedav, rom<br />
dRes am regionSi amerikis interesebi<br />
Sesustebulia. amerika imitom<br />
aris globaluri moTamaSe da<br />
zesaxelmwifo, rom aqvs strategiuli<br />
interesebi, romelic ar<br />
qreba.<br />
_ geTanxmebiT, me imas ar vambob,<br />
rom amerikis myarma insti-<br />
tutebma xeli aiRes saqarTvelos<br />
mxardaWeraze, an TanamSromlobis<br />
dawyebuli formatebi gzaSi miatoves,<br />
laparakia uSualod prez-<br />
identis administraciaze. rog-<br />
orc wina prezidentebi ereodnen<br />
aqtiurad, amas ver vxedavT dRes.<br />
_ aSS-s yvela prezidents Tavisi<br />
prioritetebi, Tavisi dRis wesrigi<br />
aqvs. Tu imas vambobT, rom<br />
rogorc iyo buSebis mmarTvelobisas<br />
msoflioSi demokratiis mxardaWera<br />
prioriteti, dRes ase<br />
marTlac araa trampis adminis-<br />
N5 (<strong>226</strong>) 20.02-26.02.2018 w.<br />
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
`biZina ivaniSvils<br />
mixeil saakaSvilis<br />
dapatimreba ar unda<br />
sakuTari<br />
interesebidan<br />
gamomdinare.<br />
yofili prezidentis<br />
cixeSi Casma Zalian<br />
seriozul dartymas<br />
miayenebs `qarTul<br />
ocnebas~, maT Soris,<br />
sagareo asparezzec~<br />
traciis pirobebSi da amaSi, garkveulwilad,<br />
dageTanxmebiT. amerikeli<br />
amomrCevlis dakveTa iyo<br />
Sidaproblemebis mogvareba, maT<br />
Soris, ekonomikuri problemebis<br />
gadaWra. trampi movida swored im<br />
dapirebebiT, rom saxelmwifo politikas<br />
moargebs Cveulebrivi adamianis<br />
saWiroebebs. amitom mis-<br />
Tvis prioriteti ekonomikaa da sagareo<br />
politikasac ufro pragmatulad,<br />
iqidan gamomdinare udgeba,<br />
ra Sedis amerikis ekonomikur<br />
interesebSi.<br />
_ rodesac Cven vsaubrobT am<br />
xelisuflebis mavneblobaze, aris<br />
is sakiTxebi, problemebi, romel-<br />
sac yoveldRiurad veCexebiT ma-<br />
Ti gamoisobiT, magram gacilebiT<br />
didia is ubedureba, rac moxda<br />
maTi xelisuflebaSi yofnisas, sa-<br />
qarTvelo gaqra msoflio rukidan,<br />
rogorc saerTaSoriso moTamaSe.<br />
dartyma miadga qveynis sa-<br />
gareo kurss, bundovani gaxda sa-<br />
gareo veqtori, araferi keTdeba<br />
natoSi integraciis Tvalsazri-<br />
siT. vizaliberalizaciac ufro<br />
isev evropis SemoCeCebulia, vi-<br />
dre amaTi Zalisxmevis Sedegi,<br />
rom dasavleTs mTlad ruseTisT-<br />
vis ar daeTmo regioni. rogor<br />
fiqrobT, ase gagrZelebis SemTxvevaSi,<br />
Semdegi gaCereba ra iqne-<br />
ba?<br />
_ sagareo frontze veraferi<br />
moxdeba iseTi, rac gamijnulia<br />
qveyanaSi mimdinare procesebisgan.<br />
dRevandeli xelisuflebis gatarebuli<br />
politikis Sedegad saqar-<br />
Tvelo araTu win ver midis, ukve<br />
problemebi eqmneba im sikeTeebsac,<br />
rac miviReT. samwuxarod, vxedavT,<br />
rom kriminaluri viTarebis gamo<br />
da imis gamo, rom saqarTvelo<br />
kriminalur eqsports eweva sazRvargareT,<br />
ukve SeiZleba evropaSi<br />
uvizo reJimis gauqmebaze daiwyos<br />
saubari. is, risTvisac aTi da meti<br />
weli viomeT, ukve safrTxis qveS<br />
daayena am xelisuflebis mier gatarebulma<br />
politikam. imitom rom<br />
esaa xelisufleba, romelic dazavebulia<br />
kriminalTan, ar qmnis im<br />
sistemas, romelic Seakavebs kriminalis<br />
eqsports evropaSi. problemebia<br />
ekonomikaSi, gvaqvs Tavisufali<br />
vaWrobis xelSekruleba<br />
evropasTan, wesiT, qveyanaSi unda<br />
iqmnebodes samuSao adgilebi, vi-<br />
Tardebodes ekonomika, magram aranairi<br />
Sedegi ar aris, saqarTvelo<br />
ekonomikuradac ver viTardeba, da<br />
axla ukve gamoqveynda amerikis<br />
dazvervis samsaxuris angariSi, sadac<br />
miTiTebulia, rom dRevandeli<br />
xelisuflebis mizani aris opoziciis<br />
Seviwroeba da saxelmwifo<br />
zedamxedvelobis institutebis<br />
CamoSla qveyanaSi. anu, faqtobrivad,<br />
mimdinareobs mizanmimarTuli<br />
procesi, romelic angrevs saxelmwifos,<br />
angrevs Cvens ekonomikur,<br />
politikur, socialur struqturebs<br />
da TavisTavad am qveyanas ukve<br />
aRar eqneba potenciali imisTvis,<br />
rom sadme imoZraos, evrokav-<br />
SirSi iqneba Tu natoSi. amis paralelurad,<br />
Zalian nelTbilad, diax,<br />
isev saubroben imaze, rom diax,<br />
Cven gvinda nato, Cven gvinda evrokavSiri.<br />
_ mase cariel Tqmas win ra<br />
udgas?<br />
_ diax, Tqmas win ra udgas da<br />
amis garda, am qveyanaSi umravlesobas<br />
unda evrokavSirsa da nato-<br />
Si gawevrianeba da ra Tqma unda,<br />
nebismieri adamiani, vinc Riad ityvis,<br />
rom am mizans upirispirdeba,<br />
ganwirulia politikuri kraxisTvis.<br />
Cven vxedavT, rom igive ruseT-<br />
Si Cveni politikosebis yvela viziti,<br />
madloba RmerTs, jerjerobiT,<br />
qarTveli xalxisgan isjeba.<br />
qarTveli xalxi aris brZeni da<br />
icis mteri da moyvare.<br />
_ erTi mxriv, mag survilTan<br />
ar Sedian winaaRmdegobaSi, Tan<br />
aranair Zalisxmevas ar iTxovs<br />
Tqvan, rom undaT nato, evrokav-<br />
Siri da rac mTavaria, swored ama-<br />
Sia maTi mTavari mavneblobac, maT<br />
gadasarevad ician, rom rodesac<br />
adamianebs amianebs raRac mravali wlis<br />
manZilze esmiT da ar xdeba, es<br />
iwvevs imedgacruebas da miraJ-<br />
uls xdis natosa da evrokavSirs.<br />
esec xom araa swored maTi amoca-<br />
na, miraJad aqcion nato?<br />
_ ki, ra Tqma unda, es angrevs<br />
rwmenas da zustad magitom „qarTul<br />
ocnebas” aranairad ar miviCnev<br />
prodasavlur politikur Zalad.<br />
„qarTuli ocneba” _ es aris<br />
Zalian Senelebuli moqmedebis da<br />
efeqtis proeqti, rom es qveyana<br />
sabolood daubrundes ruseTis<br />
orbitas. me ar miviCnev „qarTul<br />
ocnebas” realurad im miznebisa da<br />
amocanebis gamtarebel politikur<br />
Zalad, romelic maT aqvT deklarirebuli.<br />
maT arc hqondaT<br />
sxva gamosavali, maT unda moeweraT<br />
xeli asocirebis xelSekrulebaze,<br />
imitom rom es maT momzadebuli<br />
miiRes memkvidreobiT, maT<br />
ar hqondaT sxva Sansi, rom ar gaeformebinaT<br />
is, rac daxvdaT, rac<br />
miiRes memkvidreobiT. axla 6 weli<br />
gavida da vxedavT, rom araferi axali<br />
ar iqmneba da rac daxvdaT,<br />
nel-nela mimdinareobis imis Camo-<br />
Sla. rodesac premier-ministri<br />
davosSi acxadebs, rom demokratia<br />
aris qveynis Tavdacvis mTavari<br />
sistema da swored demokratia uzrunvelyofs<br />
qveynis natoSi integracias,<br />
albaT, unda esmodes, rom<br />
paralelur reJimSi qveyanaSi<br />
damoukidebeli mediis devna, prodasavluri<br />
opoziciis devna, saxelmwifo<br />
zedamxedvelobis institutebis<br />
CamoSla, politpatimrebisa<br />
da politdevnilebis arseboba<br />
ar uwyobs xels demokratiis<br />
ganmtkicebas.<br />
_ kriminalis eqsporti axse-<br />
neT, am procesSi cxadia, Tavisi<br />
wili pasuxismgebloba ekisreba<br />
xelisuflebas, imitom rom qveya-<br />
naSi araa normaluri cxovrebis,<br />
muSaobis pirobebi da xalxi maso-<br />
brivad garbis, magram Tu gaviTvaliswinebT<br />
swored krimina-<br />
lis eqsportis masStabs, Cndeba<br />
sxva eWvic, xom ar gvaqvs saqme<br />
raRac sxva fenomenTan? rodesac<br />
ase erTbaSad Tavi Seircxvines ge-<br />
rmaniaSi, SveicariaSi, ager ital-<br />
iaSi axal saketebs igoneben da<br />
„antijorjianos” arqmeven, raRac<br />
ufro did procesTan xom ar gvaqvs<br />
saqme, vidre ubralod am xelisuflebis<br />
mavnebluri poli-<br />
tikis rigiT SedegTan?<br />
_ kriminaluri qselebi iqmneba<br />
iq, sadac amis SesaZleblobaa. rogorc<br />
Cans, am qselebs CvenTan advilad<br />
qmnian da, albaT, uvizo mimosvlis<br />
erT-erTi Sedegi isic<br />
aris, rom gaadvilda am xalxis<br />
gadaadgileba da es problema Zalian<br />
male gamovlinda. rac Seexeba<br />
mizezebs, isev xelisuflebis politikas<br />
davadanaSauleb, imitom<br />
rom es aris xelisufleba, romelmac<br />
masobrivi amnistia gamoacxada,<br />
romelic dResac eyrdnoba ar-<br />
Cevnebis dros kriminalur dajgufebebs<br />
da Zalian aqtiurad iyenebs<br />
maT sakuTari politikuri Zalauflebis<br />
SenarCunebisTvis. es aris<br />
xelisufleba, romlis Zalian ma-<br />
Rali eSelonis warmomadgenlebi<br />
SemCneuli arian kriminalur samyarosTan<br />
kavSirSi da cnobilia<br />
maTi kavSirebis Sesaxeb organizebul<br />
TanaSaulTan. ase rom, rodesac<br />
aseTi Semadgenlobis xelisufleba<br />
gyavs saTaveSi, ra Tqma unda,<br />
kriminali gaZlierdeba da es<br />
aris xelisuflebis mier gatarebuli<br />
politikis Sedegi. arsebobs<br />
cirkularuli migraciis proeqti,<br />
romelSic saqarTvelo Tu miiRebs<br />
monawileobas, es SesaZlebels gaxdis,<br />
rom Cvenma moqalaqeebma legalurad<br />
moipovon evropaSi moklevadiani<br />
samuSao ufleba. Tu<br />
saqarTvelo CaerTveba am proces-<br />
Si, garkveuli xalxisTvis garkveuli<br />
pirobebiT iarsebebs evropaSi<br />
muSaobis legaluri ufleba, garkveuli<br />
tipis samuSaoebze. vfiqrob,<br />
rom es asaTvisebeli SesaZleblobaa,<br />
rac SeiZleba meti adamiani,<br />
visac aqvs amis survili da SesaZleboba,<br />
legalurad wavides da<br />
imuSaos. Tumca, ra Tqma unda, mniSvnelovania,<br />
rom aq Seiqmnas samuSao<br />
adgilebi da Cveni moqalaqeebi<br />
aq cxovrobdnen.<br />
13
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