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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`ivaniSvils unda, rom
8-9 ivnisis sisxliani Rame Savi
Sorena marsagiSvili
asoebiT Seva saqarTvelos isto-
599 92 16 22
riaSi. „gavrilovis Rames” xelisuflebam
daamtkica, rom Zalauflebis
SesanarCuneblad yvelafers ikadrebda. aqedan gamom-
dinare, opozicia darwmunebuli iyo, rom xelisufleba Zalas
axlac gamoiyenebda. Tumca aravis egona, ivaniSvils nervebi
pirvelsave dRes umtyunebda. is, rac ceskos SenobasTan mox-
da, murman dumbaZisTvis mosalodneli iyo. opoziciis erT-
erTi lideri ambobs, rom „qarTuli ocnebis” Tavma mxolod
ZaladobiT icis problemis mogvareba. dumbaZe ar gamoricx-
avs, rom es darbeva ivaniSvilisTvis morigi triuki iyos.
ra SeiZleba idges am darbevis
ukan? risTvis emzadeba ivaniS-
vili? rogor unda imoqmedos
opoziciam? visi eSinia „qarTuli
ocnebis” liders? _ am Temebis
Sesaxeb murman dumbaZe „qroni-
ka+~-s esaubreba:
_ batono murman, ceskosTan
xalxis darbevas elodebodiT?
_ biZina ivaniSvilisgan yvelaferia
mosalodneli. aqedan gamomdinare,
sruliad ar gamkvirvebia,
rac 8-9 noembris Rames ceskosTan
moxda. ivaniSvili aris is kaci,
romelic patara SekamaTebis gamo
damemuqra. me masTan erTad davafuZne
„qarTuli ocneba”. Cven er-
Tad did dros vatarebdiT da
TanamebrZolebi viyaviT. xelisuflebaSi
mosvlis Semdeg ivaniSvilma
raRac sisuleleebis Cadena
daiwyo. amaze mivuTiTe da Cven
Soris uTanxmoeba Camovarda. misi
qmedebebi sajarodac gavakritike.
amiT gabrazebulma ivaniSvilma
damireka da pirdapir miTxra,
frTxilad iyavi, quCaSi araferi
dagemarToso.
_ es gafrTxileba rodis miiReT,
„ocnebidan” rom wamox-
vediT, Tu manamde?
_ jer kidev „ocnebis” wevri
viyavi. ivaniSvils premieris posti
ekava. Tanamdebobasac ki ar moerida
da damemuqra. es 2013 wlis
TebervalSi moxda. es adamiani
bunebiT aris kriminali da qmedebebic
kriminalis aqvs. is ufro
gamikvirdeboda, darbevaze rom ar
wasuliyo.
_ aseTi darbevebis Semdeg
xalxi ufro brazdeba da gac-
ilebiT meti adamiani gamodis
quCaSi. es ar icis ivaniSvilma?
_ icis, magram adamiani bunebiT
kriminalia da sxvanairad ver
moiqceva. is iqceva, rogorc gasuli
saukunis 90-iani wlebis ruseTSi
moqmedebda. darbeva, Tvalebis
daTxra, samagieros gadaxda
misTvis ucxo ar aris.
_ darbeviT saakaSvilic arbev-
da opozicias, magram xalxi ver
daaSina.
_ verc ivaniSvili daaSinebs.
amaze is aucileblad agebs pasuxs.
am darbevebisTvis saakaSvilmac
ago pasuxi da dRes samSoboSi ver
brundeba. me didi xani viyavi miSas
oponenti. araerTi aqcia movawyve
mis winaaRmdeg. 2011 wlis 26
maissac aqciaze videqi. es iyo sastiki
darbeva, magram ivaniSvilis
darbevebisgan gansxvavebiT, am darbevas
raRac gamarTleba mainc
hqonda.
_ Tqven 26 maisis darbevas am-
arTlebT?
_ am sastik darbevas ver gavamarTleb,
magram miSas im aqciis
dasarbevad sababi hqonda. 26 maiss
rusTavelis gamzirze samxedro
aRlumi unda gamarTuliyo. misi
CaSlis nebas aravin mogvcemda.
sisastike rom ar gamoeCinaT, am
aqciis daSlis gamo miSas veravin
Seedaveboda. misgan gansxvavebiT,
ivaniSvili Tavs ver gaimarTlebs.
_ ukve bevri darbevaa ivaniS-
vilis angariSze. cotac da miSas
gadaaswrebs.
_ Tu gaviTvaliswinebT, rom
miSas dros darbevebs amarTlebda,
CaTvaleT, rom didi xnis win
gadaaswro. Cvenma sazogadoebam am
Zaladobaze Tvali ar unda daxu-
Wos. mTeli qveynis masStabiT unda
gaimarTos aqciebi. marto Tbilisi
da baTumi ar kmara. mTeli saqarTvelo
unda gamovides quCaSi.
_ gamova da mTeli qveynis mas-
StabiT daiwyeba darbevebi.
_ ramdens daarbevs? am xalxze
darbeva ar Wris. Cvens mosaxleobaSi
Zaladoba uaress protests
iwvevs.
_ Tqven ivaniSvils kargad
icnobT da rogor ggoniaT,
pirdapir darbevaze ratom gada-
dis? ase male SeiZleba, rom kacs
nervebma umtyunos?
_ man Zaladobis garda sxva
araferi icis. ase iSova fuli da
ase cdilobs am qveynis dapatronebas.
am darbevebs rac Seexeba, ar
gamovricxav, es ruseTs ukavSirdebodes.
_ ruseTi avalebs, aqcia daar-
bieo? Tu ruseTis saameblad
akeTebs amas?
_ SeiZleba, erTic aris da _
meorec, arc mesame variants gamovricxav.
ivaniSvili putinzea
damokidebuli da misi Zalian eSinia.
putini mas ar aZlevs imis
uflebas, rom xelisufleba daTmos.
am darbevebiT revolucias
CaliCobs. putins etyvis, ra vqna,
xom xedav, xalxma Camomagdoo. ar
gamikvirdeba, amas ukavSirdebodes
amdeni adamianis cema da dasaxi-
Creba. ivaniSvilis bolo mainc
wiTeli moedania. amas Tavadac
xvdeba da Tadarigs iWers.
darbevebi momavalSic iqneba,
magram es protests ver gaaCerebs.
opozicia dRes iseTi erTiania,
rogorc arasdros. es erTianoba
aucileblad gamoiRebs Sedegs.
„ocnebam” arCevani mogvpara da mas
aucileblad davibrunebT.
biZina ivaniSvilma katastrofuli
Secdoma dauSva, roca Sereuli
sistema datova. srulad opoziciur
sistemaze rom gadavsuliyaviT,
amxela ayalmayal aRar iqne-
murman dumbaZe:
`misi bolo
aris wiTeli
moedani!~
boda. arCevnebi dasruldeboda 31
oqtombers da is dasruldeboda
opoziciis gamarjvebiT. ivaniSvilma
Secdoma dauSva, rom igive
ar gaimeora, rac saakaSvilma 2012
wlis pirvel oqtombers gaakeTa.
_ Tqven sul imas ambobdiT,
rom ivaniSvili arCevnebSi dama-
rcxebas aRiarebso.
_ megona, rom ase moiqceoda,
radgan es misTvis ukeTesi iyo. mas
SeeZlo, kargad Sesuliyo saqar-
Tvelos istoriaSi. samwuxarod,
man sxva gza airCia. mogexsenebaT,
Tu ra didi gamocdileba maqvs
politikaSi. am gamocdilebis
gaTvaliswinebiT Tamamad geubnebiT,
rom ivaniSvilis „ocneba”
aris SevardnaZis „moqkavSiri” da
abaSiZis „aRorZineba”.
_ ras gulisxmobT?
_ imas, rom „ocnebac” iseve
gardaicvala, rogorc „moqkavSiri”
da „aRorZineba”. ivaniSvilis
bolo iqneba moskovi, wiTeli
moedani. es ukeTess SemTxvevaSi.
araa gamoricxuli, cixeSic aRmoCndes.
man xalxs arCevnebi mohpara,
qurdoba ki danaSaulia.
_ opozicia sul ambobda, rom
arCevnebis gayalbebas ar Seegueboda.
Tqveni azriT, ratom wavi-
da ivaniSvili aseT gayalbebaze?
ra egona, protesti ar iqneboda?
_ mas sufTad TamaSi ar Seu-
Zlia. ivaniSvili ZaladobiT aRwevda
yovelTvis mizans. is verc
politikosad Camoyalibda. politikosi
rom yofiliyo, amaze ar
wavidoda. mas win hqonda SevardnaZisa
da abaSiZis magaliTebi.
qarTveli xalxi gayalbebas ar
patiobs. mixeil saakaSvils bevri
nakli aqvs da bevri Secdomac
dauSvia, magram is politikosia.
man 2012 wels aRiara arCevnebSi
`ivaniSvili aris is kaci, romelic patara
SekamaTebis gamo damemuqra. me masTan erTad
davafuZne `qarTuli ocneba~. Cven erTad did
dros vatarebdiT da TanamebrZolebi viyaviT.
xelisuflebaSi mosvlis Semdeg ivaniSvilma
raRac sisuleleebis Cadena daiwyo. amaze
mivuTiTe da Cven Soris uTanxmoeba Camovarda.
misi qmedebebi sajarodac gavakritike. amiT
gabrazebulma ivaniSvilma damireka da
pirdapir miTxra, frTxilad iyavi, quCaSi
araferi dagemarToso~
damarcxeba da darCa politikaSi.
ivaniSvili ki darCa xelisuflebaSi,
magram darCa politikis miRma.
_ es ranairad?
_ Cveulebrivad. ivaniSvili ki
darCa xelisuflebaSi, magram
politikis miRmaa da amas araferi
eSveleba. arsebul viTarebaSi gamosavalic
Zneli sapovnelia. wesiT,
man xelaxali arCevnebi unda
daniSnos, romelic Tavisufal
garemoSi Catardeba. es naklebad
savaraudoa, biZina amaze ar wava.
amis sapasuxod opoziciam swori
nabiji gadadga.
_ aqciebia swori nabiji?
_ aqciebic, magram aranakleb
mniSvnelovania bariergadalaxuli
partiebis gadawyvetileba. maT
erTxmad ganacxades, rom parlamentSi
ar Sevlen. ivaniSvili parlamentSi
iqneba marto. es mis Zalas
did uxerxulobas Seuqmnis. maT
aucileblad mouwevT daTmobaze
wasvla.
_ ise, „ocneba” bolomde Tavs
gamarjvebulad ar miiCnevs.
arCevnebis mogeba ramdenime wu-
Tiani zeimiT aRniSna mxolod.
amas riT axsniT?
_ arCevnebis periodSic da
axlac baTumSi var. baTumSi viyavi
arCevnebis Ramesac. „qarTuli
ocnebis” ofisi Cveni ofisis gverdiT
aris. Zalian civilizebuli
urTierToba gvqonda da erTi kamaTic
ki ar mogvsvlia, miuxedavad
imisa, rom erTmaneTs mwvaved
vakritikebdiT. roca ceskom Sedegebi
gamoacxada, „ocnebis” baTumis
ofisSic xanmokle zeimi gaimarTa.
mere daiSalnen. arCevnebis
mogebas ase xanmokle zeimiT aravin
aRniSnavs. „qarTuli ocnebis”
mokrZaleba pirdapir kavSirSia
gayalbebasTan. am partiaSi yvelaze
ukeT ician, Tu ra doziT gaayalbes
arCevnebi. ise gaayalbes, rom
gamarjvebis aRniSvnisac ki SercxvaT.
darwmunebuli var, ivaniSvilic
ar zeimobs am gamarjvebas. man
kargad icis, ra Caidina da imasac
acnobierebs, ra SeiZleba amis gamo
miiRos. mas dasavleTic mosTxovs
pasuxs. pirvel rigSi ki am
qveynis moqalaqeebisTvis mouwevs
pasuxis gacema. zeviT giTxariT,
rom ivaniSvili ki darCa xelisu-
6 N28 (330) 10.11-16.11.2020 w.