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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
`ocnebam~ xelidan gauSva~<br />
premieric, romelic finansebsa da<br />
ekonomikas kurirebda da is finansTa<br />
ministric, romelic amas kurirebda,<br />
yvelaze rbilad rom vTqvaT,<br />
orive interesis sagania, radgan<br />
gamodis, rom isini am procesebSi<br />
raRacnairad iyvnen CarTuli.<br />
axla me rom viRacam mipasuxos, adgilobriv<br />
mrewvelobas xeli rom<br />
ar SeSloda, yvelafers vakeTebdi-<br />
To, amasac miviReb, magram yvelafers<br />
xom sazRvari aqvs? SeiZleba,<br />
raRac SeRavaTi misce erTi-orjer,<br />
magram Svidjer ratom unda<br />
misce SeRavaTi?! aqedan gamomdinare,<br />
mimaCnia, rom aq korufciis<br />
Zalian seriozuli niSnebi ikveTeba.<br />
amis danaxvas ar sWirdeba sagamoZiebo<br />
moqmedeba, es SeuiaraRebeli<br />
TvaliTac kargad Cans.<br />
_ ivaniSvilis saxeli elitur<br />
korufciaSi figurirebs, rogor<br />
fiqrobT, am garemoebam xom ar<br />
Seuwyo xeli elituri korufci-<br />
is amotivtivebas?<br />
_ vfiqrob, araformalur<br />
mmarTvelobaze saubari gadaWarbebulia<br />
imitom, rom Tu oquaSvilis<br />
ambavi amotivtivda, ivaniSvili, am<br />
SemTxvevaSi, araformaluri mmarTveli<br />
ar aris, is partiis xelmZRvanelia.<br />
im saqmeSi figurirebdnen<br />
adamianebi, romlebic ivaniSvilamdec<br />
am saqmiT iyvnen dakavebuli.<br />
oquaSvilsa da CxartiSvils vgulisxmob.<br />
isini wlebis ganmavlobaSi<br />
TavianT bizness ase akeTebdnen,<br />
maT biznesis keTeba 90-ian wlebSi<br />
daiwyes da oquaSvilTan dakavSirebuli<br />
uamravi skandali maxsovs,<br />
elizebis, CaCuas saqme da a. S. ikve-<br />
Teba aseve farcxalaZis faqtori,<br />
romelic ivaniSvilzea mibmuli.<br />
samwuxarod, ar var aseT saqmeSi<br />
Caxeduli, Cemi specifika usafrTxoebis<br />
sistemebia, islami da a. S.,<br />
magram, zogadad, rasac vismen da<br />
vigeb, rasakvirvelia, garkveulwilad,<br />
ivaniSvilis saxelTanaa dakavSirebuli,<br />
magram Cven ar viciT,<br />
ivaniSvilis saxels iyenebs vinme<br />
Segnebulad, Tu es yvelaferi ivaniSvilTan<br />
bmaSia? cota xnis win<br />
logikaze mkiTxe, verafriT vxvdebi<br />
logikas, raSi unda sWirdebodes<br />
ivaniSvils 4 milioni, romelzedac<br />
oquaSvili saubrobda?<br />
_ ivaniSvils es 4 milioni, Sesa-<br />
Zloa, piradi moxmarebisTvis su-<br />
lac ar sWirdebodes, Tumca<br />
sWirdebodes Tavisi partiisTvis.<br />
amaze ras ityviT?<br />
_ 2012 wels partia „qarTuli<br />
ocnebis” wevri viyavi da arCevneb-<br />
Si vmonawileobdi. ar maxsovs, rom<br />
problema yofiliyos viRacis<br />
mxridan fulis motana da a. S. unda<br />
gaigoT, rom 4 milioni ivaniSvilisTvis<br />
fuli ar aris. unda icnobde<br />
ivaniSvils da mixvdebi, rom es<br />
adamiani magaze ar ilaparakebs.<br />
roca oquaSvilma Tqva, rom ivaniSvilma<br />
TiTiT maniSna, oTxio, gamecina.<br />
es naTqvami im xalxzea gaTvlili,<br />
vinc ivaniSvils ar icnobs,<br />
vinc piradad icnobs, man icis, rom<br />
ivaniSvili oTx milions saerTod<br />
ar axsenebs. me masTan urTierToba<br />
2011-2013 wlebSi mqonda da erTxel<br />
ar gamigia, rom fulze elaparakos<br />
an es termini exmaros. es mis<br />
xasiaTSi ar aris, sxvanairad mowyobili<br />
adamiania. kargia Tu cudia,<br />
amaze ar vsaubrob, me mis Tvisebaze<br />
vambob.<br />
_ iqneb, ar damdgara imis<br />
saWiroeba, rom ivaniSvils fulze<br />
TqvenTan elaparaka?<br />
_ rogor ar iyo: saarCevno procesi<br />
midodida da erT-erTi mimarTulebis<br />
regionuli samsaxuris<br />
ufrosi viyavi. zustad CemTan iyo<br />
saWiro am Temaze saubari, Tumca<br />
es Tema ivaniSvilisTvis mniSvnelovani<br />
ar iyo. me SemiZlia giTxraT,<br />
rom maSin Tanxebis ganawilebas<br />
`javasa da cxinvals Soris sofeli msxlebia, me<br />
vxedavdi am adgilas, rogor xdeboda cocxali<br />
Zalis mobilizacia da samxedro<br />
infrastruqturis mSenebloba. amis Sesaxeb<br />
vacnobe kidec saakaSvils, Tumca reaqcia -<br />
araviTari. Zalian kargad vxedavdi, ruseTi<br />
maxes agebda imisTvis, rom rogorme<br />
provokaciaze wamoego saqarTvelo. ruseTs<br />
Zalian didxans gaugrZelda am provokaciaze<br />
saqarTvelos wamogeba, amisTvis yvelaferi<br />
gaakeTa da, saboloo jamSi, wamoago kidec~<br />
N32 (253) 16.10-22.10.2018 w.<br />
`simarTle rom giTxraT, iciT, rogori<br />
STabeWdileba damrCa? - gaerTianebulma<br />
opoziciam rodesac vaSaZis kandidatura<br />
daayena, fiqrobda ra, rom misi susti<br />
wertili moskovuri biografiaa, amitom<br />
gadawyvita, piarkampania salomes RalatSi<br />
dadanaSaulebaze aego. rac Seexeba<br />
sazogadoebis didi nawilis aRSfoTebas,<br />
unda giTxraT, rom sazogadoebis didi<br />
nawili aRSfoTda maincdamainc ara<br />
salomes am gancxadebaze, aramed imaze,<br />
rom salome aris `qarTuli ocnebis~<br />
mxardaWerili kandidati. garda amisa, am<br />
didi nawilis meore nawili imaze<br />
aRSfoTda, rom Jurnalistebmac Seqmnes<br />
Sesabamisi foni da, rasakvirvelia,<br />
salomem Zalian cudi Secdoma dauSva~<br />
sxva adamianebi kurirebdnen, magram<br />
TviTonac damiwyia saubari,<br />
radgan raRacaSi Tanxa iyo saWiro.<br />
ivaniSvili ki yovelTvis gaurboda<br />
am saubars, radgan misTvis es<br />
ar iyo salaparako Tema. am Temaze<br />
is oquaSvilTan ar dailaparakebda.<br />
rac Seexeba ivaniSvilis faqtors,<br />
ar vici, es sakiTxebi masTan<br />
bmaSi aris Tu ara, Tumca eWvi mepareba.<br />
ar momwons, rom „qarTuli<br />
ocnebis” saTaveSi yofnis period-<br />
Si zogierTi adamiani zedapirze<br />
amotivtivda, es adamianebi mTeli<br />
cxovrebis ganmavlobaSi arafers<br />
warmoadgendnen da darwmunebuli<br />
var, arc momavalSi warmoadgenen<br />
rames, magram axla amotivtivdnen<br />
da Zalian didi fuli iSoves. vgr-<br />
Znob, rom es fuli keTilsindisieri<br />
muSaobiT ar aris naSovni. am<br />
adamianebis gvarebs ar davasaxeleb.<br />
_ fiqrobT, rom es adamianebi<br />
ivaniSvilis saxels iyeneben?<br />
_ ase gamodis, rom ivaniSvilis<br />
saxels iyeneben, amas ver uarvyof.<br />
am adamianebTan piradi urTierToba<br />
ar maqvs, presaSi da satelevizio<br />
eTerebSi rasac vxedavT, Jurnalistebi<br />
amboben, rom sxvadasxva<br />
pirma saubrebSi ivaniSvilis saxeli<br />
gamoiyena. Cven vismenT frazas,<br />
rom amboben: „ivaniSvilma dagvavala”.<br />
eWvi mepareba, rom ivaniSvilma<br />
daavala, magram is adamianebi<br />
rom viRacisTvis saWironi arian<br />
da, aqedan gamomdinare, ase Tavisuflad<br />
grZnoben Tavs, es faqtia.<br />
_ visTvis SeiZleba iyvnen<br />
saWiro da saintereso?<br />
_ etyoba, xelisuflebis garkveuli<br />
StoebisTvis arian saWiro,<br />
romelic, albaT, ivaniSvilTanac<br />
arian kontaqtSi. me ivaniSvils ki<br />
ar vamarTleb, verc gavamarTleb<br />
da verc gavamtyuneb, SemiZlia<br />
erTi ram giTxraT, rom rac saku-<br />
Tari TvaliT ar minaxavs da ar momismenia,<br />
imaze ver visaubreb. elituri<br />
korufcia qveyanaSi raRac<br />
formiT rom arsebobs, es namdvilad<br />
faqtia. es ar SeiZleba ar<br />
vTqva, araelituric rom arsebobs,<br />
esec faqtia. izrdeba korufciis<br />
kritikuli masa da amasTan brZolaa<br />
saWiro.<br />
_ Tqven TqviT, rom ivaniSvili<br />
fulTan dakavSirebiT ar saubrobda<br />
da am sakiTxs sxvebi kur-<br />
irebdnen, amasobaSi sadaveebi xom<br />
ar gaeqca xelidan da erT-erTi<br />
mizezi es xom ar iyo?<br />
_ sadaveebis gaqcevasTan dakav-<br />
SirebiT geTanxmebiT da vfiqrob,<br />
rom partiaSi misi mobruneba sadaveebis<br />
gaqcevam ganapiroba. arasdros<br />
damimalia da arc axla ar<br />
davmalav, rom Cinovnikebis garkveuli<br />
nawili pasuxismgeblobas<br />
erideboda. maT eSinodaT an Tavis<br />
atkieba ar surdaT. iseTi xalxi Cinovnikur<br />
aparatSi SerCeuli gansakuTrebiT<br />
regionul rgolebSi.<br />
saidan moxvdnen, ar vici. es xalxi<br />
ar minaxavs 2011 wels, arc 2012-<br />
2013 wlebSi, am xalxis didi nawili<br />
CemTvis absoluturad miuRebelia,<br />
amanac ganapiroba partiidan Cemi<br />
wamosvla. „qarTuli ocnebis” erTma<br />
deputatma miTxra: CinovnikTan<br />
kabinetSi rom Sevdivar, gamarjobas<br />
meubnebian, magram xels ar<br />
marTmeveno. _ ratom-meTqi? _ skams<br />
ver uSveben, eSiniaT, rom ar gamovacaloo.<br />
_ Cinovnikebi TavianT Tanamde-<br />
bobebze SemTxveviT, sruliad<br />
daumsaxureblad moxvdnen?<br />
_ SemTxveviT moxvedrilebi arian,<br />
klanuri mmarTvelobis elementebia,<br />
naTesavebisa da megobrebis<br />
erTguli adamianebis moyvana da a.<br />
S. saqarTveloSi yovelTvis iyo da<br />
axlac aris _ xSir SemTxvevaSi adamianebs<br />
arCevdnen ara profesiuli<br />
niSniT, aramed erTgulebis niSniT.<br />
ase daniSnulebi ki arafers<br />
warmoadgendnen, isini isxdnen TavianT<br />
skamebze, arafers akeTebdnen,<br />
iRebdnen danamatebs, premiebs<br />
da gadasarevad grZnobdnen Tavs.<br />
meore nawili ki dakavebuli iyo<br />
korufciiT, sakuTari keTildReobis<br />
SeqmniT, mesame nawili, ukve<br />
maRali Tanamdebobis pirebi, praqtikulad,<br />
saxelmwifos funqcionirebis<br />
sabotaJs awarmoebdnen,<br />
rasac sadaveebis xelidan gaqceva<br />
hqvia da rogorc vxvdebi, aman gamoiwvia<br />
ivaniSvilis dabruneba partiis<br />
Tavmjdomaris postze da<br />
SemdgomSi premierisa da mTeli am<br />
gundis cvlilebebi. piradad am axalgazrda<br />
premieris imedi maqvs, _<br />
ac vTqvi, am TvalsazrisiT situacias<br />
radikalurad Secvlis. CemTvis<br />
mTavari is ki ar aris, rom adamianma<br />
fuli gaakeTa da saxlSi waiRo,<br />
mTavari is aris, rom biujetidan<br />
ar moiparos. qarTuli quCuri<br />
gamonaTqvamic arsebobs: waiRos<br />
fuli saxlSi, magram saqmec gaake-<br />
Tos. me ver vxedav qveynis swrafi<br />
ganviTarebis bazas, rom, magali-<br />
Tad, ganviTareba xval daiwyeba.<br />
amisTvis uzarmazari resursi gvaqvs,<br />
Tumca arasworad gamoyenebuli.<br />
rodesac Cinovniki xar da pasuxismgeblobis<br />
geSinia, saqmes ver<br />
gaakeTeb. vfiqrob, axali premieri<br />
zustad im kategorias ganekuTvneba,<br />
romelsac pasuxismgeblobis<br />
aReba ar aSinebs. es Cemi piradi<br />
STabeWilebaa da imedi maqvs, am<br />
TvalsazrisiT situacia ukeTesobisken<br />
Seicvleba. korufcia yovelTvis<br />
iqneba, magram gaaCnia, mas-<br />
Stabebs.<br />
_ bolo ori wlis ganmavloba-<br />
Si bevri ram amotivtivda da<br />
mmarTveli gundis problemebic<br />
gamoikveTa. SegviZlia vifiqroT,<br />
rom mmarTvelobis pirvel wleb-<br />
Si ukeTes formaSi iyvnen da Sem-<br />
deg krizisi arasworma sakadro<br />
politikamac ganapiroba?<br />
_ sakadro politika rom mmarTveli<br />
gundis sisustea, es asea. rac<br />
Seexeba mmarTvelobis pirvel<br />
wlebs, am periodSi formaSi rom<br />
yofiliyvnen, partiidan ar wamovidodi.<br />
CemTvis partiaSi yofnis<br />
mTavari mizani da amocana samarTlianobis<br />
aRdgenis procesis<br />
dawyeba iyo. mimaCnda, rom im 9 wlis<br />
ganmavlobaSi, rac saakaSvili iyo<br />
xelisuflebaSi, usamarTlo ambebi<br />
moxda da sazogadoebaSi uzarmazari<br />
uaryofiTi muxti dagrovda,<br />
rasac ganmuxtva sWirdeboda. kohabitaciis<br />
winaaRmdegi ar viyavi,<br />
oRond im formiT ara, ra damaxinjebuli<br />
formac miiRo. roca masobrivad<br />
xdeboda „nacionaluri<br />
moZraobis” kadrebis portiteba<br />
„qarTul ocnebaSi”, amis winaaRmdegi<br />
viyavi. CemTvis misaRebi iyo<br />
kohabitaciis msubuqi forma, magram<br />
adamianebs, romlebsac uamravi<br />
tkivili miayena wina xelisuflebam<br />
(mxolod qonebis warTmevaze<br />
ar aris saubari, maT Rirseba<br />
ayares), swored maTTvis Rirsebis<br />
dabrunebisa da reabilitaciis momxre<br />
viyavi. dRes iciT, ra xdeba?<br />
_ vinc maSin yvelaferi gadado da<br />
im reJims ebrZoda, sadac Tvali<br />
dakarga, axla dgas da saxelmwifo<br />
kancelariasTan maTxovrobs (konkretul<br />
pirovnebaze vsaubrob), kereseliZea<br />
gvarad, am dros ki, paralelurad,<br />
viRaca, visac maSinac<br />
mowyobili hqonda Tavisi cxovreba<br />
da sxvas Cagravda, isev muSaobs,<br />
isev Cagravas viRacas da gadasarevad<br />
grZnobs Tavs. amis winaaRmdegi<br />
var axlac am yvelafers er-<br />
TobliobaSi hqvia samarTlianobis<br />
araRdgenis survili.<br />
_ maSin Cndeba logikuri kiTxva:<br />
saidan modioda samarTlianobis<br />
araRdgenis survili? vis in-<br />
teresebSi iyo igi?<br />
_ jer erTi, Cveni dasavleli<br />
partniorebis zedmeti CarTuloba,<br />
meorec, _ maSinve gaCnda imis<br />
niSnebi, rom adamianebi, romlebic<br />
erTmaneTTan dapirispirebul partiebSi<br />
iyvnen da dapirispirebul<br />
mxareebs TamaSobdnen, sinamdvile-<br />
Si erTmaneTis axloblebi iyvnen,<br />
zogs naTesauri, zogs megobruli,<br />
zogs ki finansuri interesebi hqonda,<br />
ramac bevr yofil Tanamdebobis<br />
pirs, romelsac danaSauli<br />
hqonda Cadenili, adgili Seunar-<br />
Cuna. axla ukve veranairi samarTlianoba<br />
veRar aRdgeba.<br />
gagrZeleba meoce gv.<br />
9
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