qronika+230
You also want an ePaper? Increase the reach of your titles
YUMPU automatically turns print PDFs into web optimized ePapers that Google loves.
mapatieT, magram israelma aSS limoniviT<br />
gamowura _ aSS-dan israelSi<br />
miliardebi Sedis, magram<br />
ivriTuli warwerebis garda sxva<br />
enaze warweras ver naxavT! israelma<br />
aSS-sTan pirdapiri samokav-<br />
Sireo xelSekruleba dado da<br />
qarTveli rom xar, unari unda<br />
gqondes, gamyidveli ar iyo, Torem<br />
nebismieri Ceqmis qveS moeqcevi!<br />
ise, saukuneebis ganmavlobaSi<br />
dapyrobilebi viyaviT, magram Cveni<br />
Ceqmis qveS moqceva veravin<br />
moaxerxa. amerikelebi qarTvelobas<br />
gvarTmeveno, im mcire frTis<br />
mogonilia, romelic gamokveTilad<br />
rusul uSiSroebaze muSaobs.<br />
gaxsovT, amas winaT, diplomatiuri<br />
warmomadgenlobebis saxelze<br />
werili rom gaagzavnes?<br />
_ im werils gulisxmobT, rezo<br />
amaSukeli, elizbar javeliZe da<br />
kidev ramdenime pirovneba rom<br />
awerda xels?<br />
_ diax. roca gaiges, rom, sinamdvileSi,<br />
am werilSi sxva ram<br />
ewera, mxatvarma Temo gocaZem,<br />
akademiis prezidentma kvesitaZem<br />
da reJisorma gogi qavTaraZem xelmowerebi<br />
ukan waiRes. es adamianebi<br />
asakovnebi arian, raRac<br />
amonaridi miutanes, sadac absurdi<br />
ewera, aSS gvTxovs, natoSi afxazeTisa<br />
da samaCablos gareSe unda<br />
SexvideTo. es Segnebulad iyo<br />
gakeTebuli, magram rogorc ki<br />
gaskda, rom es tyuili iyo, am xalxma<br />
xelmowera ukan waiRo. saer-<br />
Tod, es werili imitom ar dawerila,<br />
rom rame Seicvleboda.<br />
_ aba?<br />
_ ruseTs sabWoTa kavSiris SegrZnebebi<br />
mohyveba. hoda, es werilic<br />
ase gaJRerdeboda _ xels<br />
awers cnobili reJisori, mxatvari,<br />
akademiis prezidenti da ai,<br />
batono, dokumentio. am „dokuments”<br />
rusebi saqarTvelos winaa-<br />
Rmdeg momavalSi, anu maSin gamoiyenebdnen,<br />
roca saqarTveloSi Semosvla<br />
dasWirdebodaT. yvelaferi<br />
es 90-ian wlebSi gaviareT da<br />
simarTle giTxraT, ramdenime adamiani,<br />
romelic maSin aqtiurobda,<br />
axlac mecno da dResac igives<br />
akeTebs, magram aRar wamovegeT!<br />
mokled, es provokacia CaiSala<br />
da, rogorc ityvian, Citi brdRvnad<br />
Rirda!<br />
_ es provokacia Tqven CaSa-<br />
leT, Tako!<br />
_ ase ver vityvi, magram, albaT,<br />
patara wvlili Sevitane, anu Cem-<br />
Tvis uZvirfases adamianebs, mama-<br />
Cemis megobrebs droulad mivawode<br />
informacia, gatyueben-meTqi!<br />
_ jansuRi cocxali rom yo-<br />
filiyo, Tavis megobrebs ras<br />
etyoda?<br />
_ gaisaubrebdnen da yvelafers<br />
gaarkvevdnen. weRandeli Tqmisa<br />
ar iyos, Cven, yvelam, 90-iani wlebi<br />
Zalian mZimed da mtkivneulad<br />
gadavitaneT. yvelaferi is inspirirebuli<br />
iyo, Torem 60-ianelTa<br />
Zalian bevri vaJkaci warmomadgeneli<br />
da erovnuli moZraoba erTad<br />
rom yofiliyo, amiT saqarTvelosTvis<br />
udidesi saqme gakeTdeboda,<br />
magram maSin „dayavi da ibatones”<br />
principma imuSava. roca amas<br />
vambob, viRacebs swyinT, magram<br />
mudmivad vityvi: damnaSave mxolod<br />
erTi mxare ar yofila!<br />
_ ras gulisxmobT?<br />
_ gvars ar davasaxeleb, magram<br />
gamgebi gaigebs: Tavis droze gamsaxurdias<br />
gverdiT rom ideqi,<br />
dRes kremlis momxre rogor xar?<br />
Canergili maSin iyavi Tu axla<br />
xar? Cemi azriT, Canergili maSin<br />
iyo, axla ki, ubralod, lustracia<br />
moxda da dRes yvelam icis,<br />
vin vinaa! erTxel vTqvi da axlac<br />
gavimeoreb: zviad gamsaxurdias<br />
generaluri prokurori, romelsac<br />
batoni anzor burjanaZe axlda,<br />
CvenTan, saxlSi movida da jansuRs<br />
uTxra, saqarTvelo datoveo.<br />
siac moitana da am siaSi eldar<br />
Sengelaiac iyo, lana RoRoberiZec,<br />
merab kokoCaSvilic...<br />
_ anu vaxtan razmaZem Tqva,<br />
rom zviad gamsaxurdia, TiTqos,<br />
am adamianebis daWeras sTxovda,<br />
ara?<br />
_ diax, razmaZem Tqva, sanqcias<br />
mTxovs, magram amas rogor vikadrebo?<br />
maSin yvelaferi es Cven<br />
davijereT. sxvaTa Soris, mere<br />
batonma razmaZem erT-erT gazeTs<br />
interviu misca da Tavad Tqva,<br />
diax, gamsaxurdia am xalxis daWeras<br />
mTxovdao.<br />
_ iqneb, marTla sTxovda?<br />
_ es sia TandaTan izrdeboda.<br />
erTi wuTiT davuSvaT, rom zviad<br />
gamsaxurdia viRacebs ahyva, magram<br />
gonebasusti ar iyo, rom generaluri<br />
prokurorisTvis 120-kaciani<br />
sia mieca da literaturaSi,<br />
mxatvrobasa Tu reJisuraSi yvelaze<br />
cnobili adamianebis daWera<br />
moeTxova! amas axla veravin damajerebs!<br />
amitomac, mgonia, rom yvelaferi<br />
es muSaobis Sedegi iyo.<br />
jansuRTanac modiodnen da eubnebodnen,<br />
zviadi amas ambobs Senze<br />
da imas ambobso. maxsovs, jansuRze<br />
ubinZuresi werilic daibe-<br />
Wda, romelic Zalian mZimed gadaitana.<br />
_ ratom?<br />
_ ratom da, garda imisa, rom<br />
orjer TavdebSi daudga, kadrebic<br />
arsebobs, roca zviad gamsaxurdia<br />
da jansuRi mitingze<br />
gverdigverd dganan, adamianuradac<br />
kargi urTierToba hqondaT...<br />
_ hoda, enis momtanebs ratom<br />
ujerebda? ar sjobda, piradad<br />
zviadTan gaerkvia?<br />
_ ver gaarkvia.<br />
_ ratom?<br />
_ ver naxa. dedaCemic cdilob-<br />
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
da, magram amaod... maxsovs, kako<br />
baqraZe da jansuRi zviad gamsaxurdias<br />
dilis aTis naxevarze<br />
unda Sexvedrodnen, „rusTavelis<br />
sazogadoebidan” daurekes da<br />
uTbilesad isaubres, amis momswre<br />
ramdenime adamiania.<br />
_ am dros razmaZes e. w. Savi<br />
sia ukve motanili hqonda?<br />
_ ara, ara, roca razmaZe movida,<br />
viTareba ukve daZabuli iyo.<br />
akaki baqraZe da jansuRi zviads<br />
maSin unda Sexvedrodnen, universitetTan<br />
saprotesto aqciebi<br />
ukve dawyebuli rom iyo. mokled,<br />
batoni akaki da mama dilis aTis<br />
naxevarze mividnen, magram dacvam<br />
ar SeuSva, prezidents TqvenTan<br />
saubari ar surso da amis Semdeg<br />
kavSiri absoluturad gawyda. sxvaTa<br />
Soris, dedaCemi da zviad<br />
gamsaxurdia literaturis institutSi<br />
erTad muSaobdnen da Zalian<br />
normaluri urTierToba hqondaT.<br />
is ki arada, zviad gamsaxurdias<br />
„bodleri” pirvelad jansuRma<br />
gamosca. koko gamsaxurdiam<br />
sajarodac dawera, _ cixeSi<br />
rom iyo, mamaCemma miTxra, Tu rame<br />
gagiWirdeba, jansuRs miakiTxeo.<br />
isic gaxmaurebuli ambavia, jansuRma<br />
zviad gamsaxurdias mweral-<br />
Ta kavSiridan garicxvas xeli rom<br />
ar moawera da amis gamo didi usiamovneba<br />
Sexvda.<br />
_ Tako, roca am ambebs yvebi,<br />
zogi ambobs, jansuRi disidenti<br />
ar yofilao.<br />
_ ara, disidenti arc jansuR<br />
Crkviani iyo, arc _ muxran maWavariani,<br />
arc _ oTar WilaZe da<br />
arc _ nodar dumbaZe. disidentoba<br />
iatakqveSa antisabWoTa saqmianoba<br />
iyo. sxvaTa Soris, muxran<br />
maWavariani, Tamaz WilaZe, nodar<br />
dumbaZe da jansuR Carkviani Jurnalebis<br />
redaqtorebad vasil<br />
mJavanaZis dros dainiSnen da es<br />
Zalian mniSvnelovania.<br />
_ ratomaa Zalian mniSvnelovani?<br />
vasil mJavanaZec xom ko-<br />
mpartiis nawili iyo?<br />
_ ki, magram 60-ianelTa Zalian<br />
vaJkacTa gundi _ Wabua amirejibi,<br />
nodar dumbaZe, guram fanjikiZe,<br />
otia paWkoria, romelic<br />
`mamas hkiTxes, zviad gamsaxurdiaze ra azris xarTo? imxanad<br />
mweralTa kavSiris Tvmjdomaris arCevnebi unda Catarebuliyo<br />
da erT-erTi kandidati mama iyo. jansuRma kiTxvaze upasuxa, -<br />
ar vici, zviad gamsaxurdia imas, rac Cafiqrebuli aqvs, rogor<br />
ganaxorcielebs, magram zviads saqarTvelo uyvars, amaSi eWvi<br />
arasodes Semparvia da arc Semeparebao~<br />
politikurze ijda da romelic<br />
jansuRma moadgiled maSin waiyvana,<br />
sanam misi reabilitacia moxdeboda<br />
_ mTel Jurnalebs moedo.<br />
gavkadnierdebi da imasac vityvi,<br />
rom Jurnali „ciskari” flagmani<br />
iyo, sadac yvelaze mwvave da Tamami<br />
nawarmoebebi ibeWdeboda. es<br />
urCxulTan garkveuli brZola<br />
iyo... amas winaT sruliad tutucma<br />
„Snikma” ikiTxa, jansuR Carkviani<br />
Cumad werdao? Cumad ki ar<br />
werda, aramed, „rwmenis kedeli”<br />
Tu „himni Tavisuflebas” yvela<br />
krebulSia Setanili...<br />
_ jansuRs leninzec xom aqvs<br />
leqsi dawerili?<br />
_ ra Tqma unda, magram zustad<br />
am leqsis gamo jansuRi Zalian<br />
magrad „aTries”.<br />
_ anu?<br />
_ gazeTSi werili gamoqveynda,<br />
sadac ewera, jansuR Crkviani belads<br />
Tavisi Cveuli cinizmiT axsenebso.<br />
sxvaTa Soris, am leqsSi<br />
aseTi striqonebia:<br />
„vumReriT lenins,<br />
vadidebT lenins<br />
Cven, visac erTxel<br />
ar gvinaxavs Zia lenini!”<br />
sxvaTa Soris, muxrans hqonda<br />
striqonebi: „daarqviT brodveis<br />
leninis quCa”, magram me muxranis<br />
„saba” miyvars! galaktioni werda:<br />
„koleqtivis mxardamxar, mxardamxaro”,<br />
magram me galaktionis<br />
„iisferi Tovli” miyvars!<br />
maSinac isini „muSaobdnen”, vinc<br />
axla muSaobs! maSinac ori frTa<br />
arsebobda: erTi ideologiuri<br />
seqtoris frTa iyo, meore ki _<br />
SedarebiT progresuli. am progresul<br />
gzas SevardnaZe adga da<br />
cdilobda, igive 60-ianelebTan<br />
emegobra. ideologiis garkveuli<br />
tipebi ki mxolod am xalxis ganadgurebas<br />
cdilobdnen. magali-<br />
Tad, roca jansuRma „ciskarSi”<br />
mcxeTis jvarTan dakavSirebiT<br />
rezo jafariZis Zalian gaxmaurebuli<br />
werili dabeWda, Jurnalis<br />
mTeli tiraJi „merve polkma”<br />
„StikebiT” „daxvrita”.<br />
_ am dros ideologiis seq-<br />
tors vin xelmZRvanelobda?<br />
_ devi sturua.<br />
...adamianebis Zalian patara<br />
gunds qveynis ruseTisken wayvana<br />
unda. saakaSvilis xelisuflebis<br />
mowinaaRmdege viyavi da 7 noembers<br />
quCaSi videqi, magram 26 maisis<br />
mitingebze quCaSi aRar gavsulvar.<br />
_ ratom?<br />
_ ratom da liderebSi ramdenime<br />
is saxe davinaxe, romelic 90-<br />
ian wlebSi Cvens ojaxSi modioda<br />
da ena mohqonda, aseve, gamsaxurdiasTanac<br />
midioda da ena mihqonda.<br />
mokled, roca davinaxe, rom<br />
garkveuli adamianebi „bela Caos”<br />
mRerodnen, vTqviT, marTalia,<br />
saakaSvilis xelisuflebis mimarT<br />
protesti gvaqvs, magram frTxilad<br />
unda viyoT, rom Cvens simarTles<br />
isev rusuli tanki ar Semohyves,<br />
rogorc 90-ian wlebSio.<br />
jansuRis opozicioneroba<br />
erovnuli iyo _ ar undoda, rom<br />
misi miwa-wyali erT larad gayiduliyo<br />
da cixeebSi ubedureba<br />
momxdariyo, imas ar dauSvebda,<br />
rom es protesti rusuli narativis<br />
xalxs gamoeyenebina! sowred<br />
es Tqva jansuRma inga grigolias<br />
gadacemaSi, romelic sabediswero<br />
aRmoCnda: „adre gvebrZodnen musulmanebi,<br />
axla gvebrZvian rusulmanebio”.<br />
swored es gamoiyenes<br />
erT-erT ruseTume gazeTSi, sadac<br />
avtori vinme d. mxeiZe werils<br />
ase iwyebda, axla mkvlelobas<br />
Cavdivaro. es Seasrula _ diax, man<br />
mkvleloba Caidina! werilis wakiTxvidan<br />
oc wuTSi mamas insulti<br />
daemarTa, magram daaviwydaT: adamianebi<br />
Svilebs im ganwyobiT<br />
zrdian, rasac qveynis damoukidebloba<br />
da siyvaruli hqvia. me da<br />
mamuka swored ase gavizardeT.<br />
mamukas, SeiZleba, laparaki ar<br />
uyvars, magram jansuRis leqsze _<br />
„himni Tavisuflebas”, romelic<br />
1972 welsaa dawerili, simRera<br />
afxazeTis dakargvis dros dawera!<br />
CvenSi patriotizmisa da qveynis<br />
siyvarulis kodi devs!<br />
vici, rom Cemi qveyana evropis<br />
ojaxis srulfasovani wevri unda<br />
gaxdes! pirvelad 1972 wels gavige,<br />
tyvia mizanSi mosaxvedriao.<br />
maSin 12-13 wlis viyavi da es CemSi<br />
darCa.<br />
sxvaTa Soris, mamas 50 wlis<br />
iubile rom iyo filarmoniaSi,<br />
maSin zviad gamsaxurdia cixeSi<br />
ijda. yvelam icis, rom ceka-s<br />
erT-erTma mdivanma darbazi datova<br />
da amis Sesaxeb mzia xe-<br />
Taguris mogonebebSia saubari.<br />
_ ratom datova?<br />
_ mamas hkiTxes, zviad gamsaxurdiaze<br />
ra azris xarTo? imxanad<br />
mweralTa kavSiris Tvmjdomaris<br />
arCevnebi unda Catarebuliyo da<br />
erT-erTi kandidati mama iyo. jansuRma<br />
kiTxvaze upasuxa, _ ar vici,<br />
zviad gamsaxurdia imas, rac Cafiqrebuli<br />
aqvs, rogor ganaxorcielebs,<br />
magram zviads saqarTvelo<br />
uyvars, amaSi eWvi arasodes<br />
Semparvia da arc Semeparebao. am<br />
sityvebis Tqma iyo da ceka-s ideologiuri<br />
seqtoris xelmZRvaneli<br />
wamodga da filarmoniis darbazi<br />
datova. mzia xeTaguri wers:<br />
mwerlebma erTmaneTs gadavulaparakeT,<br />
jansuRi mweralTa kav-<br />
Siris Tavmjdomare veRar gaxdebao.<br />
asec moxda _ jansuRi mweralTa<br />
kavSiris Tavmjdomared aRar<br />
miuSves!<br />
N9 (230) 20.03-26.03.2018 w.<br />
7
Change language