qronika+3(335)

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
Wkuaze ar unda dadiodes~
aramed ukve gavxdi mediatorio.
orive mxarem unda davTmoT raRacebi,
raTa qveyana am mZime krizisidan
gamoviyvanoT.
_ daTmobaSi opoziciis par-
lamentSi Sesvla igulisxmeba?
_ dRevandel situaciaSi parlamentSi
Sesvla an arSesvla
arafers niSnavs. Cven mTavaria,
vipovoT gzebi, romliTac SeTanxmebas
SevZlebT. sxvanairad
qveyana SeiZleba, seriozuli dapirispirebis
winaSe davayenoT.
xelisuflebis dayolieba ioli
iqneboda, quCaSi 50 da 100 aTasi
adamiani rom gamodiodes an imdeni
adamiani mainc gamoviyvanoT,
„vardebis revoluciis”
dros rom gamovida. aseve Sei-
Zleboda imis gakeTebac, rac
faSinianma SeZlo somxeTSi. sam
TveSi aiyolia mTeli qveyana. Tu
amas SevZlebT, maSin xelisufleba
iolad wamova daTmobaze. mee-
Wveba, rom axla saqarTveloSi
amdeni xalxi gamovides quCaSi.
_ ratom geeWvebaT?
_ Cveni mosaxleoba, ZiriTadad,
imaze fiqrobs, Tu rogor
iSovos lukma-puri. am dros maT-
Tvis sulerTia, ra sistemiT
Catardeba arCevnebi. arc is ainteresebs,
iqneba Tu ara plebisciti.
Sesabamisad, arCevnebTan
dakavSirebuli moTxovnebiT qu-
CaSi aravin gamova.
_ 2003 welsac lukma-puris
Sovnaze iyo gadasuli mosaxle-
obis didi nawili, magram maSin
gamovida xalxi gareT.
_ maSin gamovida, axlac Sei-
Zleba gamovides, Tumca gami-
Wirdeba amis dajereba. simarTle
Tu gindaT, mirCevnia, xelisuflebebi
arCevnebis gziT icvlebodes,
vidre _ revoluciiT.
_ revoluciur gzas rom
arCevnebi sjobs, amaze arc
aravin daobs.
_ amitom unda vecadoT, rom
arCevnebiT SevcvaloT xelisuflebebi.
_ zemoT Tqven parlamentSi
Sesvla-arSesvlis sakiTxi ax-
seneT. „strategia aRmaSenebeli”
parlamentSi ar Sevida, magram
mainc aris mosazreba, rom sa-
kanonmdeblo organoSi apirebT
Sesvlas.
_ Cven mimarT aseTi damokidebuleba
usamarTlobaa. Tavidanac
usamarTlod moiqcnen, roca
amtkicebdnen, rom Cven SevidodiT
parlamentSi. isic usamarTlobaa,
roca viRaca ise
gangixilavs, rogorc „nacionalur
moZraobasTan” mikedlebuls.
usamarTlobad mimaCnia
isic, roca opoziciisgan odnav
gansxvavebuli pozicia gaqvs da
amis gamo „qocobas” gabraleben.
mgoni, droa, rom qveyanaSi politikuri
kultura ganvaviTaroT.
_ politikuri kulturis
ganviTarebaSi ras gulisxmobT?
_ gansxvavebuli pozicia miuRebeli
ar unda iyos. gansxvavebuli
poziciis gamo oponentebs
ar unda mivaweboT kliSeebi. aravin
aravisze naklebi patrioti
`xelisuflebas urCevnia, rom arc vadamdeli arCevnebi Catardes da arc -
plebisciti. magaTi neba rom iyos, aw da maradis ukuniTi ukunisamde iqnebodnen
xelisuflebaSi. Cven aseTi saxelmwifos aSeneba ar gvinda. Cven gvinda iseTi
qveyana, sadac xelisuflebam icis, rom xval an zeg opoziciaSi gadava~
ar aris da arc sxvaze naklebad
awuxebs is, rac dRes qveyanaSi
xdeba. CemTvis aseve miuRebelia
mesianizmi. ar SeiZleba, rom mxolod
erTi adamiani ambobdes
WeSmaritebas da yvela im gzas
daadges, rac mas miaCnia sworad.
_ aseT mesianizms xelisu-
flebis frontze gmobT Tu _
opoziciis?
_ mniSvneloba ar aqvs, sad iqneba.
ar SeiZleba, mxolod erTi
adamianis azri iyos swori. amis
winaaRmdeg yovelTvis waval.
_ opoziciaSi aris dRes imis
mcdeloba, rom erTi adamianis
azri moaxvion Tavs?
_ samwuxarod, aris amis mcdeloba.
erTxel da samudamod
unda davasruloT mesianizmi.
saswrafod dasawyebia sistemuri
ganaxleba. qveyanaSi unda Seiqmnas
funqciuri demokratia. Cveni
qveynis momavali da ganvi-
Tareba erT kacze ar unda iyos
damokidebuli. es unda gansazRvros
sistemam da xalxma.
_ Tqven ki xarT winaaRmdegi
mesianizmis, magram opoziciur
erTobaSi arian iseTebi, romlebic
erT konkretul politi-
koss miiCneven mesiad.
_ arian aseTebi, maTTvis mTavaria,
is konkretuli adamiani
ras ityvis. Cven vambobT, rom mesianizmi
unda damTavrdes. mesiebi
saWiro araa. mniSvneloba ar
aqvs, vin aris is.
_ am SemTxvevaSi xom mixeil
saakaSvilze saubrobT?
_ mixeil saakaSvilze vsaubrob
da vityvi, Tu ratom ar unda
iaros mTelma opoziciam mis azrze:
mixeil saakaSvils nebismier
sakiTxze SeuZlia Tavisi poziciis
dafiqsireba. is qveyanaSi
aris faqtori, rogorc pozitiuri,
aseve _ negatiuri. mas Seu-
`biZina ivaniSvilma am qveyanas bevri cudi
rame moutana. didi tragediaa, roca qveyanaSi
damkvidrda nihilizmi. Cvens mosaxleobas
momavalis imedi aRar aqvs. xalxi masobrivad
garbis qveynidan. am viTarebaSi `qarTul
ocnebas~ iseTi strategiuli xazi aqvs
arCeuli, amboben, rom awmyo cudia, magram
momavali kidev ufro mZime iqnebao. es ukve
gausaZliss xdis Cvens yofas~
Zlia „nacionaluri moZrobis”
momxreebis mobilizeba, magram,
amave dros, „qarTul ocnebas”
exmareba, rom maT mis winaaRmdeg
moaxerxon eleqtoratis mobilizeba.
SeiZleba Tu ara mixeil
saakaSvilis gakritikeba? ra Tqma
unda SeiZleba. vinc amas ar iRebs
da amis sawinaaRmdego argumentebiT
gamodis, maTTan politikur
debatebs ar vapireb.
_ „strategia aRmaSenebeli”
opoziciuri frontis warmomad-
genlebTan debatebs gaurbixarT.
arCevnebis win daiwyeT imaze
saubari, rom rac ar unda gv-
lanZRon opozicionerebma, Cven
amas lanZRviT ar vupasuxebT. ax-
lac amave poziciaze dgaxarT?
_ ra Tqma unda. es „strategia
aRmaSeneblis” strategiidan gamomdinareobs.
Cven erTgulebi
varT Cveni ideebis. migvaCnia. rom
energia, rasac erTmaneTTan dapirispirebaSi
vxarjavT, mimarTuli
unda iyos erTianobisa
da aRmSeneblobisken. aqedan gamomdinare,
ar gvinda opoziciasTan
dapirispireba. garwmunebT,
Zalian kargad viciT, Tu ra unda
vuTxraT opozicias da ra _ xelisuflebas,
magram ar vakeTebT.
ar vakeTebT erTi martivi mizezis
gamo _ yvelas rom mivaxaloT
simarTle, maSin aravin dar-
Ceba iseTi, visac SeiZleba xeli
CamovarTvaT. amitom ar gvinda
opoziciasTan dapirispireba da
maTgan wamosul lanZRvas ar vpasuxobT.
_ oponents raRacas Tu
etyvi, xeli ratom veRar unda
CamoarTva? mTeli politikuri
speqtri erTmaneTis lanZRvazea
gadasuli, magram mSvenivrad
arTmeven xels.
_ eg maTi arCevania, me sxvanairad
vuyureb am sakiTxs. Cemze
rom iyos damokidebuli da ase-
Ti mZime viTareba ar hqondes
qveyanas, opoziciaSi myofi pirebis
90%-s xels ar CamovarTmevdi.
_ am gancxadebiT, faqtobri-
vad, gamolanZReT opoziciis
didi nawili.
_ ar gamilanZRavs, vTqvi, rom
xels ar CamovarTmevdi.
_ ratom ar CamoarTmevdiT?
_ es adamianebi xelisufleba-
Si yofnis dros sxvas laparakobdnen,
iqidan wamosvlis Semdeg
ki sul sxvanairad daiwyes
saubari. es pativiscemas ar imsaxurebs.
_ amis miuxedavad, xom axerx-
ebT maTTan dialogs?
_ imitom, rom axla qveyanas
ase sWirdeba. „strategia aRmaSeneblis”
strategiidan gamomdinare,
pirovnul da partiul
dapirispirebaze uars vambobT
da amitom vsxedvarT molaparakebebis
magidasTan. es imas sulac
ar niSnavs, rom yvela erTmaneTSi
unda avirioT; rom simarTlesa
da tyuils Soris zRvari
waiSala. aseTi zRvari bunebrivia,
ar waSlila da verc waiSleba.
ubralod, axla erovnuli
Tanxmoba gvWirdeba. is energia,
rac erTmaneTTan dapirispireba-
Si unda davxarjoT, jobia, qveynis
aRmSeneblobas movaxmaroT.
es aris Cveni xazi da am xazs
bolomde davicavT.
biZina ivaniSvilma am qveyanas
bevri cudi rame moutana. didi
tragediaa, roca qveyanaSi damkvidrda
nihilizmi. Cvens mosaxleobas
momavalis imedi aRar aqvs.
xalxi masobrivad garbis qveynidan.
am viTarebaSi „qarTul ocnebas”
iseTi strategiuli xazi
aqvs arCeuli, amboben, rom awmyo
cudia, magram momavali kidev
ufro mZime iqnebao. es ukve gausaZliss
xdis Cvens yofas.
Cveni yofa rom gausaZlisi
gaxda, amaSi biZina ivaniSvils miuZRvis
lomis wili, magram isic
unda vicodeT, rom problema
mxolod pirovnebebSi ar aris da
is bevrad ufro Rrmaa. es imis
bralia, rom maRali politikuri
kultura da saxelmwifoebrivi
azrovneba ver davamkvidreT.
_ saxelmwifoebrivi azrovneba
rom ver damkvidrda, es biZi-
na ivaniSvilis brali namdvilad
ver iqneba.
_ mas amas ver davabralebT. es
yvela Cvenganis bralia. saxelmwifoebrivad
rom vazrovnebdeT,
ukeTesi mdgomareoba iqneboda
qveyanaSi.
_ saxelmwifoebrivad rom
vazrovnebdeT, ase iolad ar
SeveguebodiT, rom am pandemiis
Jams xelisuflebas erTi doza
vaqcinac ki ar aqvs Semotanili.
_ vaqcinis Semotanas Tavi davaneboT,
Cveni mosaxleobis naxevarze
meti acxadebs, rom ar aicreba.
roca mosaxleobis naxevarze
meti ase azrovnebs, iq razea
laparaki?! yvelafris miuxedavad,
momavals mainc imedianad
vuyureb. Cven gamousworebeli
optimistebi varT. Cveni optimizmi
realizmidan momdinareobs.
es realizmi maiZulebs vifiqro,
rom xelisufleba molaparakebebze
wava. mas sxva arCevani ar gaa-
Cnia. igive SemiZlia vTqva opoziciazec.
molaparakebebs isaic
unda dasTanxmdes.
N3 (335) 8.03-21.03.2021 w.
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