me Cems miTosur samyaroSi avidgi fexi

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12 interviu _ modiT, upirveles yovlisa, Tqveni pirveli leqsebi da pirveli publikaciebi gavixsenoT, batono mamuka, rogori atmosfero dagxvdaT, rogor iwyeboda poeti mamuka wiklauri? _ rac Tavi maxsovs, sul leqsiTa da moleqseebiT var garemoculi. Cemma siymawvilem xalxuri leqsis aRiarebuli mTqmelebis wiaRSi gaiara da, cxadia, bunebrivi iyo, rom Cemi pirveli `cdebic~ xalxuri poeziisTvis damaxasiaTebel Temebze da motivebze Seiqmna. bevri ganTqmuli mTqmeli iyo imdroindel gudamayarSi: mose pata- Suri (`mebaRe~), sijanaT mosika (`qera~), goga beqauri (`gamsiveli~), givi Coxeli (`SuRliaTi~), pavle wiklauri (`tyis kaci~), giorgi wiklauri (`yaCa- Ri~)... maTi leqsebi `quxda~ _ gadadioda piridan _ pirze, soflidan _ sofelze. erTmaneTs aleqsebdnen, erTmaneTSi kafiaobdnen da gardacvlilsac leqsiT istumrebdnen. leqsi am xalxis nawilad iqca _ leqsi iyo xatobebSi da qorwilebSi, leqsiT esaubrebodnen RvTisSvilebsa da angelozebs. amaT Soris yvelaze ufro saxelgavardnil moleqses giorgi wiklaurs (`yaCaRi~) me veRar moveswari _ igi cnobili represiebis dros taSkentSi gadaasaxles da iqidan aRar dabrunebula. sikvdilmisjil poets stalinisTvis patiebis Txovna leqsad miuweria: àRmosavleTis prokurors da dasavleTis mesias: Txovna maqvs dido stalino, Txovna vaJkacis wesia, cocxali gamogadgebi, mkvdari ki _ araferSia!~ ai, am garemocvaSi avidgi fexi... mogvianebiT wavikiTxe qarTuli poeziis klasikosebi da samudamod gavebi leqsis maxeSi. _ publikaciebi?.. _ rac Seexeba beWdur publikaciebs, es ufro gvian, studentobis wleb- Si moxda. Tumca, rom vTqva, erTbaSad vifeTqe-meTqi, ar iqneba swori. maSindel TbilisSi mxolod sami literaturuli gamocema iyo: `literaturuli gazeTi~, `mnaTobi~ da `ciskari~. arc erT amaTgans, rom ityvian, gulze ar vexate, da Cemi leqsebis beWdvas samive erideboda... ufro `mowyaled~ miyurebda gazeT àxalgazrda komunistis~ redaqcia, sadac maSin cnobili prozaikosi Tamaz bibiluri muSaobda... erTi Cemi publicisturi poema daibeWda gamomcemloba `nakadulis~ mier gamocemul axalgazrda mweral- Ta saerTo krebulSi... im xanebSi Catarda raRac `sakavSiro konkursi~ axalgazrda poetebs Soris. saqar- Tvelodan sxva or, Tu sam poetTan erTad, konkursSi mec gavimarjve da am faqtTan dakavSirebiT, Cemi ramdenime leqsi daibeWda `literaturul gazeTSi~. eg iyo da eg, sxva mniSvnelovani araferi momxdara Cemi pirveli wignis gamosvlamde. erTi sityviT, redaqciebs Tavi ver movawone _ etyoba, iseT raRacas `vaCmaxebdi~, rac ar jdeboda socialisturi realizmis Stampebsa da im droisTvis gamefebul `zogad gemovnebaSi~. _ Cemma Taobam da momdevno Taobis axalgazrdebma mxolod gadmocemiT da yurmokvriT ician komunistebis saliteraturo politikis Sesaxeb. rogorc gadmogvcemen am politikis qvakuTxedi cenzura da Sesabamisi ideologiuri samsaxurebi iyo. mxatvruli literaturis wignad gamocemis dros aucilebeli iyo `koniunqturuli xarki~, romelsac literaturuli literaturuli gazeTi gazeTi literaturuli gazeTi 25 ivnisi - 8 ivlisi 2010 mamuka wiklauri: `me Cems miTosur samyaroSi avidgi fexi~ `... vfurclav `Tovlis qrizanTemebs~... sul ufro da ufro vrwmundebi, rom saqme maqvs ara poeturi alegoriiT aRbeWdili, fifqiviT spetaki yvavilis msubuq xilvebTan, rac SeiZleba wignis saTaurma winaswar Segiqmnas, aramed granitis lodis namtvrevebTan, da pirveli SegZneba, riTac erTbaSad gboWavs mamuka wiklauris leqsi _ esaa wona, wona striqonisa, moulodneloba poeturi xilvisa da siRrme gancdisa, azrisa da, rasakvirvelia, is madli, rac aduRabebs amas yvelafers _ gulwrfeloba! isic, jiuti! aq yvelaferi dinji, tkiviliT gamsWvaluli fiqrisa da gancdis gamxelaa. iqneb swore es aZlevs poetis kilos sxvagvar damajereblobas, Tavisebur kolorits, tragikul elfers... TiTqmis yoveli leqsi didi Tu momcro granitis natexiviTaa da iqneb amitomac tovebs es patara krebuli granitis lodis StabeWdilebas...~ (lado avaliani, `didi siCumis~ eqo~). avtorebi `paravozebsac~ uwodebdnen... _ diax, mTeli sistema iyo gamogonili imisTvis, rom mtkiced daecvaT maqsim gorkis mier Camoyalibebuli etaloni sabWoTa mwerlisa. magaliTisTvis _ leqsebis krebuls aucileblad unda wamZRvareboda ramdenime `paravozi~, anu ramdenime iseTi leqsi, romlebSic gandidebuli iqneboda oqtombris revolucia, komunisturi partia, lenini, sabWoTa kavSiri... unda `gemRera~ volga-donis arxisTvis, bamis mSenelobisTvis, engurhesisTvis... erTi sityviT, unda gewama is, rac ar gwamda; siyvaruliT unda gelaparaka imaze, rac gZulda. ase rom, is politika, arc meti, arc naklebi, mwerlis garyvnisTvis iyo gamogonili. garyvnil mweralze didi ubedureba ki ar arsebobs, radgan aseTi mwerali sxva, aTasobiT mkiTxvels ryvnis. SemTxveviTi arc is iyo, rom ieriSi upirvelesad axalgazrda literatorebze mihqondaT _ kargad icodnen, rom Tu erTxel `SeWame~ _ meored, mesamed da measedac ar ityvi uars `Wamaze". _ zemoT Tqveni pirveli wigni axseneT. Tqvenc gadaixadeT amgvari ìdeologiuri xarki"? _ Cemi wigni TiTqos advilad Seitanes gamomcemloba `meranis~ 1968 wlis Tematur gegmaSi, magram misi gamocema mere gaWirda. wignis redaqtorad daniSnes `meranis~ TanamSromeli oTar kuprava. redaqtirebaze er- Tad wavimuSaveT da maisisTvis xelnaweri ukve mzad iyo sastambod. wesisamebr, gamzadebuli wigni xelmosawerad (vizis misacemad) gamomcemlobis mTavar redaqtors, cnobil sabWoTa mwerals grigol Ciqovans gadaeca... da swored aq amoxta xifaTi _ Ciqovanma waikiTxa da uaris niSnad xeli gaasavsava: me am ùideo~ wigns xels ar movawero!.. arao da arao! _ ar gaWra Txovnam. maSin oTar kupravam damaimeda _ movicadoT, ivlisis TveSi grigoli SvebulebaSi midis da viza gamomcemlobis direqtors karlo kalaZes mivaceminoTo _ eg teqstebs arasodes ar kiTxulobs, ise awers xelso. ar ewera am gegmas ganxorcieleba _ Ciqovani ki wavida SvebulebaSi, magram wasvlis win daibara: es wigni uCemod ar gauSvaT stambaSi dasabeWdado. rogorc ityvian àdamianis gonebas ra SeaCerebs~ da oTar kupravam sxva gegma moifiqra: sxva gza ar aris, unda davweroT oTxi-xuTi `paravozi~, CavdoT wignis dasawyisSi, Camova redaqtori, CaTvlis Tavis survils asrulebulad da xels moawerso. mere ki isev amoviRoT is `paravozebi~ da wigni gadavnomroTo. es imdenad gonebamaxviluri gegma, iyo, rom yvelani aRvfrTovandiT da gadavwyviteT, aRsani- Snavad TiTo boTli Rvino dagvelia erT iaf sasadiloSi, romelic `dinamos~ stadionTan iyo da, romelsac mwerlebma `sevdis baRi~ Searqves. sufras oTxni vusxediT: me, yaraman kikviZe, murman qoiava da ìdeis~ avtori oTar kuprava. barem ambavs davasruleb _ Camovida Svebulebidan Ciqovani, davaxvedreT Cemi `paravozebiani~ wigni. waikiTxa. moiwona. _ ase ar sjobso? _ Segvaqo da moawera xeli... _ Tqvens Taobas `samocdaa- Tianelebis~ saxelwodebiT moixsenieben kritikosebi da mkiTxvelebi. ra siaxleebi moitana qarTul literaturaSi am Taobam da, saerTod, rogor uyurebT `Taobas~, rogorc literaturul termins? _ CemTvis Zalian Zvirfasi, Seuleveli da Seucvlelia is xalxi, visac Tqven `samocdaaTianelebSi~ gulisxmobT. amas winaT erTi `CvenTaobeli~ Semxvda da Semomtira: yvela wavida, CvenRa davrCiTo. marTlac, bevrni wavidnen da amouvsebeli sicariele datoves. Cven erTad viyaviT, Cveni ojaxebi axloblobdnen, Cveni Svilebi erTad izrdebodnen... maSin, TiTqos, wignebis udidesi mozRvaveba iyo, magram zogierTi wigni mainc Zalian Znelad iSoveboda da aseT iSviaT wigns erTi Tu iSovida, yvelani rigrigobiT vkiTxulobdiT. ase wavikiTxeT kavabata, alber Sveiceri, solJenicini, egzistencialistebis naSromebis krebuli èsTetika~, saocari Cineli poeti tao iuan mini, aseve saocari Zveli iaponuri poeziis satomeuli `maniusiu~ da sxv. erTmaneTi marTla gviyvarda da Cvens Soris aravin iyo ise- Ti, vinc zneobriv principebs gadauxvevda, vinc raRac bnel samsaxurebTan TanamSromlobas ikadrebda... `Taoba~, rogorc literaturuli cneba _ me cota bundovnad mesmis misi mniSvneloba. me mgonia, rom mweralTa asakobriv dajgufebas Zalze umniSvnelo kavSiri aqvs literaturul SemoqmedebasTan. aseTi `koleqtiuri~ da `tomuri~ cnbebi bevrs verafers gveubneba literaturuli procesebis asaxsnelad. literatura èrTeulTa sportia~ da mwerali yovelTvis martoa Tavis brZolaSi da SromaSi, Tavis fiqrebTan da uZilod gatexil RameebTan... sxvaTaSoris, me piradad yovelTvis bevr saerTos vpoulobdi Cemze ufros kolau nadiraZesTan, vaxtang WeliZesTan, oTar CxeiZesTan, akaki gawereliasTan... da meores mxriv _ umcrosebTan Tamaz baZaRuasTan, rostom CxeiZesTan, uCa SerazadiSvilTan, giorgi lobJaniZesTan... _ axlaxan, erTma Cvenma literatorma eWvis TvaliT Sexeda galaktionis Semdgomdroindel mTel qarTul poezias _ `dananebiT~ aRni- Sna, rom galaktionis Semdeg qarTuli poezia galaktionis CrdilqveS moeqca da Semdeg Tvisobrivad saintereso araferi momxdarao... ra komentars gaakeTebdiT amaze? _ am gamosvlaze Tavisi komentarebi gaakeTes tariel Wanturiam da givi alxaziSvilma da me `dasamatebeli~ aRaraferi maqvs. erTs ki vityodi naxevradxumrobiT _ aseTi kategoriuli da SiSveli gamoTqmebisagan Tavi unda SevikavoT _ am dros Zir-fesviani analizi da gamowvlilviTi daskvnebia mTavari da ara kategoriuli gambedaoba... is literatori Cemi umcrosi megobaria da mis balRur akviatebas _ ar arsebobs, ar arsebobso, balRurive paTosiT vupasuxebdi: sebobs! sebobs! Cemo batono-meTqi. _ isev galaktionze minda gkiTxoT: rogor warmogidgebaT igi didi qarTuli poeziis mTagrexilSi da ra gavlena moaxdina man piradad Tqvens Semoqmedebaze? _ galaktion tabiZe, CemTvis, ise- Ti erTiani da msoflmxedvelobrivad mTliani Semoqmedi ar aris, rogoric vTqvaT, guramiSvili, ilia, akaki, vaJa. galaktion tabiZis poeziis erTi nawili, romelsac me, marina cvetaevas wabaZviT, `Cems galaktions~ davarqmevdi, Zalian miyvars da ver warmomidgenia Cemi literaturuli samyaro umisod... xolo meore nawili, ase vTqvaT `revoluciuri nawili~, romelSic igi nametani `yelgadagdebiT~ umReris leninsa da komunizms, did literaturad ar mimaCnia... rac Seexeba zegavlenas _ vimeoreb, rom `Cemi galaktioni~ me Zalian miyvars da raki miyvars, albaT, raRac gavlenac unda vigulisxmoT, xolo konkretulad amaze saubari, cxadia, Cemi saqme araa... _ `wiTeli mwerlis~ fenomeni _ me maxsendeba Tqveni publicisturi werilebis seriali ìeriSebi ukanasknel imperiaze~. am serialSi Tqven komunisturi imperiisa da misi jiSjilagis saboloo fazaze werdiT da am konteqstSi moiazrebdiT `wiTeli mwerlis~ gaCenisa da `srulyofis~ mTel istorias. Tqveni azriT, dRes sadaa es `wiTeli mwerali~, gadaSenda Tu isev agrZelebs Tavis `wiTel saqmes"? _ `wiTeli mwerlis~ fenomeni arc iseTi martivia, rogorc es erTi SexedviT Cans. garvekveul momentSi wiTel teqstebs werdnen namdvili mwerlebic da mwerlobaSi komkavSiruli sagzuriT mivlinebuli kalmosnebic. amaT Soris ki Zalian didi gansxvaveba iyo. namdvili mwerlebi aseT rameebs werdnen imitom, rom Tavi gadaerCinaT komunisturi represiebisgan. lozungi _ `vinc CvenTan araa, Cveni mteria~ _ didi, Savi asoebiT ewera komunistur giliotinaze; xolo maqsim gorkis nabi- Wvrebi werdnen imas, rasac Tavisi savse stomaqi da carieli Tavi karnaxobda. erTxel sabWoTa kavSiris `kagebes~ maSindel meTaurs andropovs maSindeli ssrk mweralTa kavSiris TavmjdomarisTvis ukaTxavs: ramdeni mwerali iricxeba dReisaTvis Tqvens kav- SirSio? _ amdeni da amdeni aTasio, _ upasuxia Tavmjdomares; _ ara, cdebio, _ Sepasuxebia andropovi, _ aTaseulebi ki ara, erTeulebia, Cemi azriT, sul ociode namdvili mwerali Tu iqneba da es aTaseulebi swored im erTeulebis moraluri ganadgurebisTvis gvWirdebao. ase iyo CvenTan, saqarTveloSic _ erT xidze gahyavdaT erTis mxriv, mixeil javaxiSvili, grigol robaqiZe, tician tabiZe, pavle ingoroyva, konstantine gamsaxurdia... meores mxriv ki asi da aTasi sio xidisTaveli da yvelas `sabWoTa mwerali~ erqva. samwuxarod, `wiTeli mwerlis~ bacila sakmaod sicocxlisunariani aRmoCnda _ wiTeli mwerlis gamocvlil kanSi isev wiTeli suliskveTeba TuxTuxebs... _ ra TvalSisacemi procesebi midis dRevandel qarTul poeziaSi? ra gavlena moaxdina am procesebze erovnulma damoukideblobam da Tavisuflebis principebis damkvidrebam? _ rTuli kiTxvaa. ver gavkadnierdebi da amomwurav pasuxze ver davdeb Tavs. Cemi zerele STabeWdilebiT mdgomareoba arcTu saxarbieloa da isev andropovis gamonaTqvami maxsendeba oci namdvili mwerlisa da maT CasaxSobad mobilizebuli aTaseulebis Sesaxeb; wamovida erTxans dagubebuli uniWo xelnawerebis niaRvari da ibeWdeba yvelaferi, Tuki fuli gaqvs. arc dabeWdvamdea vinme ramis ganmxilveli da arc dabeWvdis Semdeg. mkixvelmac TiTqos alRo auRo Seqmnel situacias da arc cuds kiTxulobs da arc _ kargs. am mdgomareobas zustad Seesabameba erTi adgili markesis romanidan `Zneli droeba~: `padres cxvirze xelis moWeram ver uSvela da orjer mWaxed daacemina. _ acxikine,
25 ivnisi - 8 ivlisi 2010 padre, _ gauRima alkaldma, _ Cven- Tan demokratiaa...~ _ ras unda mivaweroT aseTi xazgasmuli sevdianoba Tqvens leqsebsa da poemebSi? am sevdianobaze jer kidev guram asaTiani miuTiTebda Tqveni erT-erTi pirveli wignis ganxilvisas... _ ras unda mivaweroT da, albaT, imas, razec pirSimTqmeli oTaraanT qvrivi migviTiTebs: àdamians varami da Wiri alaparakebs. qveyanaze Wiri rom ar iyos, adamiani enasac ar amoidgamda. meti bargia. lxins ra laparaki unda? ZaRls rom uxarian, kudis qiciniTac ityvis xolme~. poeziac dasabamidan, or umTavres burjze dgas _ poetur sevdaze da poetur filosofiaze. ai, ras werda erTi literatori semuel beketze: `...im wuTas, misi, erTi SexedviT, orazrovani sityvebi gamaxsenda: `diax, marTlac yvelaferi dasasrulisken mieqaneba~. ai, es _ dasasrulisken maradiuli srbola badebs poetur sevdasa da poetur filosofias. _ batono mamuka, Cveni inteligenciis erTma nawilma pirdapir sabrZolo gangaSi gamoacxada _ ariqa, viRupebiT, erovnebas gvarTmeven, Cvens kulturas da sarwmunoebas ebrZvian da integraciis mRvrie mdinareSi daRupva gveliso. cxadia, esec dasavluri politikuri orientaciis winaaRmdeg mimarTuli propagandis nawilia da viciT, saidanac modis... sainteresoa Tqveni azri, marTla aseTi apokalifsuri movlenebi gviaxlovdeba? _ zogjer mgonia, rom aseTi Sexedulebis adamianebs saqarTvelos samyarosgan mowyvetil iseT kunZulad warmodgena surT, sadac mxolod robinzoni da parskeva cxovroben. ara, ase ar aris! yvelaferi erovnul simtkicezea damokidebuli. myari fsiqologiis erebi jer aravis waulekavs da swored aseTi erebis ricxvs miekuTvneba Cveni eric. man araerTxel daamtkica, rom ar arsebobs aseTi fsiqologiis mqone eris damamxobeli Zala. ai, is ki saTqmelia, rom frTxilad unda viyoT da qedi ar movuxaroT aRzevebul kulturebs. me, rogorc mwerals, mtkiced mwams, rom qarTuli literatura erT-erTi didi literaturaa dedamiwis zurgze da, poetis Tqmisa ar iyos, am literaturas sxvisi misabaZi araferi sWirs. _ laparakoben mwerlobis, da saerTod, kulturis warmmarTvel rolze sazogadoebriv cxovrebaSi. cota xom ar azviadeben am rols? _ ara, ar azviadeben, Tumca sapirispiro mosazrebebic arsebobs. germaneli mwerali, nobelis premiis laureati herta miuleri ambobda, rom cxovrebas sasacilodac ar hyofnis mwerlobao; amerikelma jon steinbekma ki sul sxva ram Tqva TbilisSi yofnisas _ samoqalaqo omi amerikaSi hariete biCer-stous `bi- Zia Tomas qoxma~ gamoiwviao. gansxvavebuli azri hqonda mwerlobaze aSS prezidents jon adamss: `literatura SeiZleba gamoyenebuli iqnas rogorc kanonierebis dasacavad, ise usamarTlobisa da tiraniis gasamefeblad, rogorc siqvelis dasanergad, ise uzneobis dasamkvidreblad~. Cven ilias eri varT da viciT, ras niSnavs, roca qveynisTvis gansakuTrebul Jams mwerali mozared gamodis da ers xifaTis moaxloebas amcnobs. dRes Cvens qveyana- Si TiTqmis sul aRar ismis mwerlisTvis niSandoblivi moqalaqeobrivi xma da es Zalian cudia. mwerlisgan dacarielebul sivrces ki veraferi Seavsebs... Tumc amaze laparaki Sors, Zalian Sors wagviyvans da modi, es saubari momavlis- Tvis gadavdoT... _ Tqven literaturul Sromas TiTqmis yovelTvis uTavsebdiT oficialur samsaxurs, romelsac adre `sazogadoebriv moRvaweobas~ uwodebdnen. rogor ggoniaT bevrs kargavs mwerali am `sazogadoebrivi moRvaweobiT"? _ Zalian bevrs... da es danakargi aunazRaurebelia. qarTul literaturaSi TvalSisacemia simravle iseTi mwerlebisa, vinc swored am `sazogadoebrivi moRvaweobis~ wyalobiT ver moaswro sakuTari SemoqmedebiTi potencialis realizeba _ nikoloz baraTaSvili, grigol orbeliani, aleqsandre yazbegi, niko samadaSvili da sxva mravali. yvelaze ufro saSinel dReSi ki, albaT, vaJa-fSavela iyo _ igi tye-RreSi, saxnav-saTesSi, saTibsamkalSi daatarebda Tavis dauwerel leqsebsa da moTxrobebs. gavixsenoT folkneris ocneba _ sadme Ramis yaraulis adgili eSova da ewera. Tqven meubnebiT _ uTavsebdiTo... ara, ver vuTavsebdi da Cemi dro daundoblad mihqonda praqtikul `miznebsa da amocanebs~. bolos ki amas vityodi _ xSirad laparakoben mwerlis daxmarebaze da Tuki marTla vinmes aqvs daxmarebis survili, mwerals werisTvis Sesabamisi pirobebi unda Seuqmnas (miTumetes Cvennair qveyanaSi, sadac wignebis tiraJi ukiduresad dabalia da honorari praqtikulad ar arsebobs). _ 70-iani wlebis Sua xanebSi mZafri polemika gaimarTa qarTuli Tavisufali leqsis problemebze. polemikis centrSi Tqven da SoTa niSnianiZe moeqeciT. im polemikis eqo Semdgomac araerTxel gaisma qarTul literaturul kritikaSi da SeiZleba iTqvas, rom es Tema dResac `cocxalia~. ras ityodiT _ wlebis Semdegac imave azrze dgaxarT, Tu raime Seicvala Tqvens poziciaSi? _ ara, Cems SexedulebebSi araferi Secvlila da arc SeiZleboda Secvliliyo, radganac am wlebis manZilze mravali mniSvnelovani uriTmo leqsi Seemata Cveni poeziis mdinares da Tavisufali leqsi ueWvel faqtad iqca. me elementarul rames vambobdi _ qarTuli riTmiani leqsis gverdiT arsebobis ufleba uriTmo leqssac aqvsmeTqi. Cemi oponentebi ki mrisxaned aprotestebdnen _ verlibris adgili Cvens literaturaSi araao. ise ki, wlebis Semdeg, Tu rames vnanob, ai, amas vnanob: _ ar unda Cavreuliyavi am provinciul kamaTSi. Tumca... esec unda iTqvas: verlibris winaaRmdeg mowyobil laSqrobas TviT partiis centraluri komitetis mdivnebi xelmZRvanelobdnen da qveSevrdom literatorebs avalebdnen, moeSalaT es ùideobis bude~. SemTxveviTi ar iyo, rom im xanebSi Catarebul Tbilisis partiul konferenciaze gamosulma cekas kulturis ganyofilebis gamgem nikoloz jaSma sastikad gaakritika Jurnal `ciskarSi~ dabeWdili Cemi ùideo~ leqsebi. es iyo realoba da masze reagireba aucilebeli iyo. ise ki, bolos unda vTqva, rom poezia maincdamainc did mniSvnelobas ar aniWebs tanisamoss... _ Tqveni gaxmaurebuli poema `TorRva Zagani~, ase vTqvaT, `tradiciuli riTmiani leqsiTaa~ dawerili, Tqveni poeziis did nawilSi ki uriTmo leqsis formebs iyenebT. ase rom, orive saleqso formas erTnairi warmatebiT flobT. mainteresebs, maS ratom aZlevT upiratesobas uriTmo leqss? iqneb imitom, rom es forma ufro moergo Tqvens SemoqmedebiT bunebas, Tqvens fsiqologias, Tqvens mxatvrul-literaturul principebs? _ marTali brZandebiT, geTanxmebiT... magram aqve isic minda vTqva, rom riTmiani da uriTmo leqsis urTierTmimarTebis Tema Zalian saintereso Temaa da aq am Temis ganxilva-amowurvas ver SevZlebT _ Zalian Sors wagviyvans. _ leqsebTan erTad Tqven xarT mravali esses, kritikuli gamokvlevis, Tu publicisturi werilis avtori. Tqveni werilebi yovelTvis interess iwvevda sazogadoebaSi Tavisi konkretuli mizandasaxulobiTa da mZafri publicisturi toniT. axla ki, ager, ramdeni xania, rac Tqveni werili aRar Semxvedria periodikaSi. arada, dRes iseTi droa, rom bevri sazogadoebrivi da literaturuli problema moiTxovs pasuxis gacemas, azris gamoTqmas, mwerlis aqtiurobas... _ Cems `mTavar saqmed~ mainc leqsi mimaCnia da mTel dros da energias swored leqsebs vaxarjav. iyo dro, roca megona, rom win Zalian, Zalian didi dro mqonda da risi gakeTebac msurda, yvelafers movaswrebdi; mego- literaturuli literaturuli gazeTi gazeTi na, raRac saqmeebis `gadaweva~ Sei- Zleboda. axla egre aRaraa. ager, TiTqmis uecrad da moulodnelad wamomadga cifri 70 da garkveviT gamomicxada _ moemzadeo... Tumca, mTlad upatronodac ar mimitovebia Cemi werilebi da esseebi. vfiqrob, erT krebulad gamovce Cemi `dokumenturi proza~ _ dRiurebi, dokumenturi moTxrobebi, esseebi, sxvadasxva drois prozauli Canawerebi (`gaufiltravi fiqrebi~) da a.S. vfiqrob, uintereso wigni ar unda gamovides... vnaxoT... _ `dokumentur prozaze~ gamaxsenda _ am bolo dros Tqvens SemoqmedebaSi prozac gamoCnda _ ase vTqvaT, `dokumenturi proza~. me momeCvena, rom es prozauli monakveTebi raRac didi moculobis nawarmoebis fragmentebia. ras gvetyodiT, biografiuli romanis daweras xom ar apirebT? _ ara, ara! Cems ujrebSi uamravi prozauli Canaweria: legendebi, gadmocemebi, mamaCemisgan, Cemi dedisZmisgan, xeobis saintereso adamianebisgan monayoli tragikuli, Tu iumoristuli ambebi... am masalas seriozuli Cajdoma da damuSaveba sWirdeba da am saqmes Sors aRar gadavdeb. yovelive amas zemoTnaxsenebi dokumenturi prozis wignSi gavaerTianeb. Cems Taobas mrisxane Jami wamoewia _ mkvdari da sikvdilze mimdgari soflebiTaa savse Cveni xeobebi... me ar maqvs ufleba, xelSi kalami meWiros da maT guSindel dReze araferi vTqva. rac Seexeba `biografiul romans~, icocxle, kargi ideaa, magram yovelives Tavisi dro da Sesabamisi Zalebi sWirdeba... mimaCnia, rom es dro wasulia da amxela tvirTis awevis Zalac aRara maqvs. _ Tqven araerTi poeturi krebulis avtori xarT. mainc romel wigns gamohyofdiT am krebulebidan, pirvelad romel wignSi igrZeniT literaturuli damoukidebloba, pirvelad romel wignSi gamoikveTa Tqveni SemoqmedebiTi individualoba? _ me yvelaze metad Cemi leqsebis meore krebuli `Tovlis qrizanTemebi~ meZvirfaseba. zedmetad zogad gamoTqmebs ("literaturuli damoukidebloba~, `SemoqmedebiTi individualoba~) rom Tavi davaneboT, es wigni `Cems gemoze~ davwere da gamoveci. Sromac bevri waiRo _ TiTqos araferi, magram mTeli Svidi weliwadi vwerdi am mcire formatis krebulSi Setanil leqsebs. `Tovlis qrizanTemebi~ 1975 wels gamovida. am droisTvis aSkarad Sesustda ideologiuri wnexi redaqciebsa da gamomcemlobebSi _ axla aRaravin laparakobda `paravozebsa~ da msgavs rameebze. ùZraobis wlebma~ aSkarad sxvagvarad aamoZrava SemoqmedebiTi Zalebi. krebulis gamocemas mowonebiT gamoexmaura cnobili prozaikosi lado avaliani. misi vrceli werili gazeT `literaturul saqarTveloSi~ daibeWda. amas mohyva guram asaTianis, Teimuraz doiaSvilis werilebi da, cota iumori rom gamovurio, ase viqeci ìmedismomcem axalgazrda poetad~. _ tradiciebsa da novatorobaze ras ityodiT _ rogor gamoiyureba am ori cnebis urTierTmimarTeba Tanamedrove qarTuli poeziis fonze? _ es Temac CaRrmavebul, gamowvlilviT gansjas moiTxovs da me aq mxolod ramdenime arsebiTi faqtoris aRniSvniT davkmayofildebi. `socialisturi realizmis~ Teoriam da praqtikam principulad uaryo qarTuli literaturis umTavresi tradicia _ simarTle (`marTals vityvi, Seviqmnebi tyuilisa moambe rad... vinc ara hgavs kaxabersa, me ver vityvi kaxaberad!~). diax, literaturis dedaboZi _ simarTle _ gamocxadda dromoWmul cnebad da `sabWoTa mwerali~ aRviraxsnili siyalbis ruporad iqca. osip mandelStami gakvirvebuli werda: `RmerTo, raoden umniSvneloa vaJa-fSavelas zegavlena axal qarTul poeziaze!..~ rac Seexeba novaciebs _ dRevandel qarTul poeziaSi aSkarad ismis ramdenime poetis axali xma da aseve aSkarad igrZnoba SemarTeba `socialisturi realizmis~ ideologTa mier SemoRebuli Stampebis aRmosafx- interviu 13 vrelad. Tumca, aqve, isic SeiZleba dabejiTebiT iTqvas, rom zogierTi `novatori~ mwerali `siaxlis~ ucxoeTidan `gadmowapnvas~ ufro eswrafvis, vidre mSobliuri literaturis wiaR- Si Ziebebs... _ axalgazrda poetebi. vis kiTxulobT, vis gamoyofT, ra axali motivebi gesmiT maT mier Seqmnili teqstebidan? _ vcdilob wavikiTxo, Tumca isic vici, rom waukiTxavi ufro meti mrCeba. amitom ver gavkadnierdebi, xmas ver daviboxeb da Tundac `Cemi azris~ gamoTqmis uflebiT ver vilaparakeb. ise ki, zedapiruli STabeWdilebiT mgonia, rom televiziis aRorZinebis epoqa Tavis saqmes akeTebs _ TviTon axalgazrda mwerlebi ufro Canan, vidre maTi nawarmoebebi... aseve zerele STabWedilebiT mgonia, rom leqsebSi nametani xSirad ismis me, me... me da Sen... gasagebia, rom subieqtur motivebs lirikidan ver ganvdevniT, magram arc isaa kargi, roca mwerali ganuwyveteli me-dan da sakuTari saojaxo wridan ver gadis. locviT ki, guliTadad vlocav Cems axadgazrda Tanamokalmeebs _ poetebs, prozaikosebs, kritikosebs... Cven erTad varT _ `Zvelebic~ da àxlebic~ erT saqmes vakeTebT... mwerlebi xom asakiT ki ara, upirvelesad talantiT gansxvavdebian erTmaneTisgan.... _ miTosi da Tqven. miTosuri samyarodan amoizarda Tqveni poema `TorRa Zagani~, aseve miTosiTaa nasazrdoebi Tqveni Semoqmedebis didi nawili. miTosuri nakadi kidev ufro gaZlierda am bolo dros gamoqveynebul leqsebsa da poemebSi. mainc saidan amdeni devi, macili, qaji da al-qaji?.. ras ebrZvian da ra ar asvenebT RvTisSvilebs pirimzes, zegardas, cecxlis jvars, lomisas, kopalas, iaxsars? _ es Cemi siyrmis samyaroa, am mi- Tosur samyaroSi avidgi fexi. Cveni xeoba Cveni da Cveni winaprebis salocavi xatebiT, xevisberebiT, dasturebiT, xatis veeba ifnebze dakidebuli zarebiT, spilenZis didi salude qvabebiT iyo savse. am xeobaSi erTad cxovrobdnen xatebi da adamianebi. xati iyo xalxis mfarveli da imedi, xati aSinebda da Cvens erdoebSi SemoRwevas ar anebebda avsulebs; xatebze iyo damokidebuli sicocxle da sikvdili, bedniereba da ubedureba, dari da avdari; meores mxriv ki adamianebi gansazRvravdnen xatebis Zlevamosilebas _ sanTels unTebdnen, saklavs uklavdnen, leqsebiTa da simRerebiT ganadidebdnen... gavida dro da TviT Cemive warsuli da Cemive mama-biZani iqcnen miTologiad _ ai isini: faris ufrosi ninia, romelic Wrel mindorze Wreli windebiT mocekvave RvTisSvilad warmomidgeba xolme; mWedeli beJia, romelic bumbulis simsubuqiT iqnevs veeba uros da gavarvarebul rkinas bRuja-bRuja yvavilebi scviva; mewisqvile jirkva, romelic devis qals yvarobs da is qali wisqvilis saRvaridan Sedis Ram-RamobiT jirkvasTan... ai, am samyarodan gadmovidnen Cemi leqsebi da es Zalian bunebrivia _ mercxalsac uyvars Tavisi bude... _ did madlobas gixdiT am saubrisaTvis da bolos erTsac SegekiTxebiT: samomavlod ra gegmebi gaqvT, ris daweras da gamoqveynebas apirebT am uaxloes xanebSi? _ me erTi ucnauroba mWirs: rasac vgegmav, verasodes vasruleb. erT xans erTad varT xolme me da Cemi `samomavlo gegma~, mere ki vSordebiT, gegma sul qreba, me ki Cems daugegmav samuSaos vasruleb. amgvarad, rasac vgegmav, winaswarve vici, rom ver Sevasruleb; xolo Tu ufro praqtikul gegmaze vilaparakebT _ minda gamovce anda gamosacemad mainc movamzado Cemi nawerebis oTxtomeuli (pirveli tomi _ poezia, meore _ literaturuli werilebi, mesame _ dokumenturi proza, meoTxe _ publicistika), Tumca isic kargad vici, rom es Canafiqric ocneba ufroa, vidre realoba. esaubra xaTuna alxaziSvili
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Page 7 and 8: 25 ivnisi - 8 ivlisi 2010 prologi i
Page 9 and 10: 25 ivnisi - 8 ivlisi 2010 arel ormo
Page 11: 25 ivnisi - 8 ivlisi 2010 debiuti b
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me Cems miTosur samyaroSi avidgi fexi

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