qronika+303

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
erTianoba warmoudgenlad mimaCnia~
sac Cven damoukidebloba gamovacxadeT,
maSinve miviReT signali
gorbaCovisgan, rom isini moaxdenen
zewolas avtonomiebze. amjerad
Cveni pirveli rigis amocana aris,
moviciloT es ivaniSvilis reJimi,
romelsac arc xalxis legitimacia
gaaCnia da Tanac kolaboracionistulia.
SemdegSi ki yvela samecniero
wrem, pilitikurma da samoqalaqo
organizaciebma, unda daiwyos
muSaoba, Tu ra gzebi unda davsaxoT
okupirebuli teritoriebis
mSvidobianad dasabruneblad...
_ okupirebuli teritoriebi
ar aris romelime calkeuli xe-
lisuflebis Tavis tkivili da
sazrunavi. es sakiTxi saerTo
erovnuli, saxelmwifoebrivi kon-
sensusis Tema unda iyos. Tema,
gnebavT, idea, romelzedac Tanxmdeba
ara mxolod romelime xe-
lisufleba, aramed politikuri
speqtri, sazogadoeba da saxelm-
wifos moqalaqeebi. xom ar fiqr-
obT, rom am Temaze diskusia unda
gaixsnas da Cven mivideT saerTo
niSnulamde, rodesac iqiTa mxares
zustad ecodineba _ diax, Cven ar
vTanxmdebiT damoukideblobas,
magram vTavazobT Tundac raRac
konkretuls?
_ diax, sworedac es aRvniSne
ukve. aucilebelia diskusia Cven
SigniT da aseve meti waxaliseba
samecniero wreebisa da SemoqmedebiTi
jgufebis, raTa maT izrunon
imisTvis, rom rusulma rbilma
Zalam, rusulma propagandam ar
daazianos kulturuli mexsiereba
Cveni istoriuli warsulis Sesaxeb.
Cven unda gaviazroT, rogor
muSaobda sabWoTa propagandis manqana
Cveni qveynis dasanawevreblad
da axla sworedac unda mivmarToT
mTeli Zalisxmeva aqeTken. Cven
axla varT gansakuTrebuli gamowvevebis
winaSe. damoukidebel
saqarTvelos unda hqondes Tavisi
axali narativi qveynis istoriuli
mexsierebis Sesaxeb, is teqsti,
romelic ganamtkicebs qveynis er-
Tianobas...
_ SesaZloa, auditorias, mkiTx-
vels gauCndes gancda, _ ratom
vmsjelobT ase gancalkevebulad
afxazeTze da imasve ar vimeorebT
e. w. yofili samxreT oseTis av-
tonomiur olqTan mimarTebiT?
Cven am mimarTulebiT saerTod
sxva gamowveva gvaqvs, _ vgulisx-
mob imas, rom cxinvals srulad
marTavs ruseTi da iq osebisTvis
ramis SeTavazeba Tavze nacris
gadaayraa. afxazeTSi ki saerTod
sxva realobaa. iqneb, amitom am
regionTan dakavSirebuli prob-
lemis Tqveneuli gadawyvetis
modeli gaaJReroT.
_ vfiqrob, rom midgoma erTnairi
unda gvqondes. sruliad uadgiloa,
rodesac Cveni warsulis gayalbebas
gvTavazoben imisTvis, rom
ar gavaRizianoT imperiuli Zalebi
an maT mier marTulebi. ar arsebobs,
yalb istoriaze raime realuri
aSendes. gvWirdeba mamaci
adamianebi, ase vTqvaT, „uvercxloni”.
Cven mZime amocanis winaSe vdgavarT
da kidev erTxel gavimeoreb,
es aris ivaniSvilis reJimis
mier imperiuli zemoqmedebis Sedegad
Seqmnili qaosi yvela mimarTulebiT.
gangaSi unda gamovacxadoT,
rogorc dakargul teritoriebze,
iseve qveynidan gadaxvewil
TiToeul moqalaqeze...
magram dRes aravis surs amis
gagoneba. daakvirdiT, nebismieri
`pirvel rigSi, araTu unda davelaparakoT afxazeTis mosaxleobas, aramed
Cven deklarirebuli gvaqvs yvela dokumentiT, rom afxazeTi saqarTvelos
ganuyofeli nawilia da es sakiTxi unda iyos cocxali da ara ise, rogorc
aq - simboluri afxazeTis mTavroba, romelic sruliad usicocxloa, rac
ufro dro gadis, raRac balzamirebul lenins magonebs, rom cocxalia, rom
unda gvaxsovdes, magram ar arsebobs...~
masmedia (albaT, vfiqrobT, drom
moitana) erideba nacionalur sakiTxebze
msjelobas. gasagebia, rom
es dReisTvis frTxil da gansxvavebul
midgomas moiTxovs. amas
mxolod Tqven akeTebT da aseTi
mediac Zalian iSviaTia, vinc Cveni
azriT dainteresdeba, im adamianebis
azriT, romelTac qveynis
damoukideblobisTvis ibrZoles.
_ mesmis Tqveni wuxili...
_ amas imitom vambob, rom mgonia,
meti pasuxismgeblobac gvaqvs.
Tumca inerciulad 1992 wlidan
xdeba Cveni marginalizacia. Cveni,
rogorc sakuTari, Tavisufali
azris mqoneTa. Torem ise bevrs
vicnob, vinc es warsuli ramdenime
politikur Zalaze kargad gayida
_ dawyebuli SevardnaZiT, Semdeg
saakaSvilTan, ivaniSvilTan da axlac
dadian erovnuli moZraobis
liderebis suraTebiT kabinetidan
kabinetebSi. vfiqrob da mawuxebs,
rodesac bevri Cemi kolega wers,
_ Cven damoukideblobis aqtze xelmomwerni.
minda ganvmarto, es xelmowera
imas ki ar niSnavs, rom
Cven movipoveT damoukidebloba,
aramed es aRniSnavs imas, rom Cven
erTmaneTs sityva miveciT, rom
davicavdiT damoukideblobis
principebs. amdenad, maqvs saTqmeli
da valdebuleba...
_ vaRiaroT, rom calkeul
SemTxvevebSi Cven istoriul orT-
abrZolaSi, anu sainformacio
omis farglebSi, istoriis war-
moCenaSi davmarcxdiT. amas hqon-
da ramdenime mizezi, erT-erTi ki
Cveni dardimandobac iyo. vgu-
lisxmob imas, rom imdenad darw-
munebulebi varT Cvens simarTle-
Si, ramis mtkicebac ki gveuxerxuleba
_ es msubuqad vTqvi. rodesac
mimdinareobs polemika istoriul
WrilSi, erTi umTavresi argumenti
gvaqvs _ ena da istoriuli
Zeglebi. ra iyo afxaz mTavar-
Ta (da ara marto) sametyvelo ena
da ra enazea warwerebi istoriul
Zeglebze? vgoneb, dResac vagebT
am sainformacio oms. sad xedavT
gamosavals da arsebobs Tu ara
SesaZlebloba, rom gardatexa
SevitanoT am mimarTulebiT?
rogoria am mxriv istorikosebis
roli da ramdenad arian isini aq-
tiurebi?
_ sworedac amaze vsaubrobdi,
rodesac zemoT mogaxseneT istoriul
mexsierebaze. amitomac vfiqrob,
rom namdvilad arsebobs Sesa-
Zlebloba, ufro meti sinaTle
SevitanoT am sakiTxSi. istoria
aris mecniereba, romlis interpretacia
xdeba droSi, Tumca es
srulebiTac ar niSnavs, rom mis
koniunqturas emsaxureba... Cven
bevri ram unda davZlioT, unda
viswavloT Sroma, drois ganawilebis
principi.
_ 2020 weli daiwyo. qarTuli
politikuri speqtris erTi nawili
miiCnevs, rom es iqneba umniSvnelovanesi
weli qarTuli sax-
elmwifosTvis. calkeuli pirebis
Sefasebebs Tu movismenT, erTgvari
deJavius mdgomareobaa, rad-
gan aseTive Sefasebebi iyo 1990
wels, 1995 wels, 2003 wels da
TviT 2012 welsac ki. Tqven ra
Sefaseba gaqvT am mxriv da rogo-
ria molodinebi?
_ mec vfiqrob, gardatexis weli
unda iyos, Tumca, rogorc Tqven
aRniSnavT, mec ase meCveneba, rom
SesaZlebelia, igive miviRoT, rac
Tqven mier dasaxelebul e. w. gardatexis
wlebSi moxda. Cven ar gvaqvs
gansazRvruli amocana, ra gvinda
qveynisTvis, ufro zustad, arc
arsebuli mdgomareoba gvaqvs Sefasebuli
Sesabamisad. ase brZola,
rodesac yvela irazmeba erTis winaaRmdeg,
anu erTaderTis winaaRmdeg,
konkretuli momentis samuSao
gegmad misaRebia. magram is erTaderTi
imdenad aris mniSvnelovani,
ramdenadac mas aqvs mTavari monis
roli. frCxilebi rom gavxsnaT,
vfiqrob, Cveni brZola rusuli imperiuli
Zalebis winaaRmdeg unda
iyos mimarTuli da ara erTi konkretuli
rusi bolSevizoidis Tu
oligarqis winaaRmdeg. unda vTqvaT,
rom arc filipe maxaraZe, arc
sergo orjonikiZe, arc kandid
Carkviani, arc eduard SevardnaZe
yofilan diqtatorebi, isini, ubralod,
rusuli imperiis daqiravebuli
monebi iyvnen, romlebic piradi
keTildReobisTvis yvelaferze
iyvnen wamsvlelebi. imaTTvis,
visTvisac gadamwyveti aris titulebi
da stomaqi, _ samSoblo,
qveyana, saxelmwifo, kanoni, samar-
Tali mxolod faratina sityvebia.
sworedac erT-erTi amaTgania bi-
Zina ivaniSvili da Tan, saubedurod,
ufro mdabio, yvela zemoT dasaxelebulTa
Soris, radganac mas
politikuri terminebiTac apelireba
ar SeuZlia da arc arasodes
yofila arc erT politikur Sekrebazec
ki, sanam xelisuflebaSi
movidoda da amdenad zemoT dasaxelebul
monebTan SedarebiTac ki
ufro rTul arsebasTan gvaqvs
saqme. is, ubralod, mejRanuaSvilis
tipis moazrovnea, romelmac
mxolod erTi sityva icis: yidva, _
albaT, sxvadasxva uRlebaSi.
_ magram politika ar aris mxolod
xelisufleba da cvlile-
bebi demokratiul samyaroSi
xSirad ukavSirdeba opozicias,
romlis amocanac xelisuflebaSi
mosvlaa...
_ axla meore mxare, opozicia...
aq Cven ar gvqonia da arc gvaqvs
opoziciuri moZraobis kultura.
Cems mowonebas mniSvnelovnad „nacionaluri
moZraoba” imdenad imsaxurebs,
ramdenadac es aris
pirveli im politikur partiaTagan,
romelmac SeZlo arseboba xelisuflebis
dakargvis Semdeg da
moRvaweoba, rogorc opoziciam. es
kargi niSania Cveni politikuri
ganviTarebisTvis, miuxedavad imisa,
rom CvenSi arsebuli Raribi
politikuri kulturis gamo xSirad
e. w. eqspertebisgan da Jurnalistebisgan
gvesmis, rom mmarTvelobaSi
am Zalis mobrunebas SeiZleba
ewodos revanSi. arada, rogor
fiqrobT, ganviTarebul dasavlur
qveynebSi ra xdeba?.. xom brundeba
is politikuri Zala xelisuflebaSi,
romelsac erTi periodi uari
uTxra amomrCevlma da uari uTxra
imitom, rom ar iyo kmayofili misi
politikiT. aq isev muSaobs e. w.
bolSevikuri „wminda Tu umwikvlo
partiis efeqti”. am dros xelisuflebaSi
isev is „umwikvlo bolSevikebi”
metyveleben.
_ es sxva polemikis Temaa, Tumca
opoziciuri partia dasavleT-
Si xelisuflebaSi brundeba gada-
`ar unda Seneldes qarTveli adamianis
mexsierebaSi afxazeTi da samaCablo...~
xalisebuli saxeebiT da axali
programiT, axali ideebiT. ara
mxolod imiT, rom „me” kargi
viyavi da „eseni” cudebi arian an
me amaTze ukeTesi viyavi... magram
amaze msjeloba axla Sors
wagviyvns da arc aris am inter-
vius mizani. is mainteresebs, ram-
denad xelovnuria politikuri
orpolusianoba, anu orad gayofili
politikuri speqtris da-
pirispireba?
_ ras niSnavs or banakad gayofili
da or RerZs Soris dapirispireba?
es miuRebelia... ise, rogor
fiqrobT, usufaSvili, meuRliTurT,
ar aris nawili „qarTuli
ocnebisa”? da ratom aris „nacionaluri
moZraobis” „damnaSave re-
Jimis” wevri nika melia? an Tundac
„nacionalebidan” wasuli ugulavabokeria
isev „nacionalebi” da qocebidan
wasuli beselia, WiWinaZe,
levan gogiCaiSvili, levan koberiZe
mesame Zala? an saidan gaxda
axal damoukidebel Zalad xazaraZe
da „qarTuli ocnebis” prezidentis
aparatis TanamSromlebi?..
es yvelaferi masmediis „monapovaria”.
erT-erTi sisuste isic aris,
rom politikuri dRis wesrigis SeqmnaSi
ufro miSvnelovan rols
masmedia asrulebs, xSirad dRis
wesrigsac qmnis. es miuTiTebs
politikuri Zalebis sisusteze.
_ geTanxmebiT. gansakuTrebiT
sustebi ki ara, umweoebi arian
politikosebi, rodesac brZnuli
saxeebiT akeTeben komentarebs
iseT sakiTxebze, romelzedac
arasodes ufiqriaT... iciT, ra
mainteresebs? _ politikuri
Zalebi amboben, rom bevri partia
parlamentSi da zedmetad Wreli
politikuri speqtri kargia
demokratiisTvis. Tqven ras
fiqrobT?
_ gansakuTrebiT mZimed meCveneba
is, rom iseve, rogorc SevardnaZem
1992 wels, parlamentSi Seiyvana
yvela politikuri Zala, misi
mTavari amocana iyo gamsaxurdias
erovnuli xelisuflebisadmi dapirispirebis
Seqmna. aseve moxda
2003 wels, rodesac mixeil saakaSvilma
gaaerTiana Tavisi politikuri
qudis qveS opoziciuri
Zalebi da 2012-Sic ase xdeboda.
ufro mZime is iyo, rac SualedSi
xdeboda, TiToeuli Sekrebili
politikuri Zala kerZo partiuli
miznebiT aRWurvili ibrZoda decentralizebisken.
axla Tu gadavxedavT
am politikur partiebs,
ufro sworad, figurebs, igive adamianebi
arian, romlebic xelisuflebaSi
mosvlis Tu parlamentSi
moxvedris mizniT erTiandeboda
Zlieri politikuri figuris qolgis
qveS. axla Cven SeiZleba biZinas
reJimis dasamarcxeblad gaverTiandeT,
magram Semdeg parlamentis
arCevnebis dros unda iyos meti
principuli da ideologiuri er-
Toba...
ufro unda gafarTovdes politikuri
speqtric da gansakuTrebiT
axali saxeebic gamoCndnen. ar
vfiqrob, rom es axali saxeebi maincdamainc
ucnobi adamianebi an
mxolod axalgazrdebi unda iyvnen,
axali SeiZleba iyos kargad daviwyebuli
Zvelic. minda, Zalian minda,
rom 2020 warmatebis weli iyos
Cveni qveynisTvis da didi imedic
maqvs. am imedis CasaxvaSi mniSvnelovani
iyo 2019 weli.
_ didi madloba saintereso
saubrisTvis.
N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.
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