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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.comskandaluri interviuopozicia „ocnebis” mxilebasgiorgi abaSiZesaerTaSoriso asparezze iwyebs,rac imas niSnavs, rom e. w. Sav siasadgens, sadac Seyvanil Tanamdebobis pirebs, wesiT da rigiT,dasavleTma garkveuli sanqciebi unda dauwesos. sanqciebi,SesaZloa, xmamaRali naTqvamia, magram arsebobs molodini, romadamianebs, romlebic zemoxsenebul siaSi moxvdebian, minimum,evropis qveynebSi gadaadgileba aekrZalebaT. am etapisTvis„Sav siaSi” mxolod xelisuflebis dabali eSelonebis ramden-ime iseTi warmomadgenelia Seyvanili, romelTa saxelebi dagvarebic farTo sazogadoebas arafers eubneba. swored amitom„Savi siis” SedgenaSi partia „kanoni da samarTali” ar monawileobs.amasTan, Tako Carkvianis politikurma gundma opoziciisis sakoordinacio sabWoc datova, romelic propor-ciuli arCevnebis sakiTxze muSaobs.arsebobs Tu ara garkveuliuTanxmoeba opoziciis SigniT? _am Temaze „qronika+“ „kanoni dasamarTlis” erT-erT liders,irakli Rlonts esaubra. Cven imiTacdavinteresdiT, saparlamentoarCevnebSi „kanoni da samarTa-li” damoukideblad gamova Tu„Zala erTobaSiasTan” erTad iqne-ba? am Temaze Rlontma saubari arisurva. samagierod, vrcel inter-viuSi ramdenime skandaluri min-iSneba gaakeTa da arc imis Tqmasmoerida, rom opoziciis calkeu-li liderebi saqmis sxvisi xeliTgakeTebas arian miCveulebi._ irakli, „kanoni da samarTa-li” e. w. Sav sias, rbilad romvTqvaT, abulingebs. ra xdeba _did opoziciur erTobas bzariSeepara?_ siamovnebiT gipasuxebT mizezebze,ris gamoc e. w. Savi sia amSinaarsiT miuReblad miviCnieT._ mainc, ra mizezebia?_ daviwyoT imiT, rom Cvenaravis vabulingebT._ aba, ras akeTebT?_ im pozicias vafiqsirebT,romelic mosaxleobis interesebTanmaqsimaluradaa daaxloebuli.saerTod, xalxis dakveTa xelisuflebismarionetebisa da zonderebismxileba araa, rasac politikosebzeukeT Jurnalistebi SesaniSnavadakeTebT da amisTvis madlobasgeubnebiT. xalxis didi nawiliopoziciisgan met efeqtian dazust moqmedebas iTxovs xelisuflebiswinaaRmdeg, romelic yoveldRiuradiseT Sav laqebs qmnis,rac qarTul interesebs gamousworebelzians ayenebs da qveyana,praqtikulad, daclilia _ qarTvelTamigracia 2 milionamdea gazrdilida maT mdgomareobas, vincjer kidev darCenilia, yvelani vxedavT.mokled, romel Sav sias davuWiroTmxari, romlis saTaveSic mTavarifigurebi ar arian? im Sav siasdavuWiroT mxari, romlis pirvelnomrad uzurpatori ivaniSvili arfigurirebs? Cveni kritikis mizaniopoziciis gaZlierebaa. kolegebmaunda gaacnobieron: mas Semdeg,rac xalxis namdvili dakveTis Sesrulebas,anu xelisuflebis damarcxebasSevZlebT, kanonma im pirebisSavi sia unda Seadginos, romelTacsaxelmwifos saxeliT braldebaspolitikuri gavlenebisgandaclili prokuratura wauyenebsda, obieqturi gamoZiebis safuZvelze,samarTliani sasamarTlosgziT moxdeba rogorc xelisuflebismTavari figurantebis,aseve maTi marionetebis mxileba dasamarTlebrivi pasuxisgeba. iciT,ra xdeba?_ ra?_ vakvirdebi da aSkaraa, rombevri opoziciuri partia da liderisaqmis sxvisi xeliT gakeTebasmieCvia._ ras gulisxmobT?_ ai, magaliTad, partiebis garkveulinawili Jurnalistebs zurgzegawevT da imiT kmayofildebian,roca mediiTa da presiT agorebulsakiTxebze komentarebsakeTeben, anu fiqroben, rom es sakmarisia,magram ara, batonebo, estivtivia da ara _ funqcionireba.zemoxsenebuli siac, Tavisi SinaarsiT,am mocemulobasTan axlosdgas, anu opoziciuri partiebiqveynis dasavlel partniorebs impirTa nusxas awvdian, visac gadaadgilebisSezRudvebi undadaudginon._ mere amaSi cudi ra aris?_ e. i. mavans aqac sxvisi xeliTsurs saqmis gakeTeba. qveynis SigniTqveynis xsna Jurnalistebs miandes,qveynis gareT ki _ ucxoelpartniorebs? aba, aq sad Cans amopozicionerTa funqcia?e. w. Savi siis figurantebs qveynisdasavlelma partniorebma sanqciebi,maT Soris, Tavisufaligadaadgilebis SezRudva undadaudginon, magram gvaviwydeba, romes arcTu martivi saqmea da Tukigvsurs, rom am saqmes qirurgiulisizustiT mivyveT, ki batono, magramCavrToT avtoritetuli arasamTavroboorganizaciebi, raTaigive qveynis partniorebTan es siaise ar wardges, rogorc opoziciurpartiaTa subieqturi xedvisproduqti, aramed, rogorc qveyanaSimoqmedi sazogadoebrivi da politikuriklasis erToblivi Sexeduleba,Tumca vimeoreb: am siasmxolod maSin davuWerT mxars,Tuki pirvel nomrad oligarqi damis karze mdgari xelis biWebi dasaxeldebian,amis Semdeg ki _ sakanonmdeblo,aRmasrulebel da sasamarTloxelisuflebaSi CanergiliyurmoWrili borotmoqmedebi._ gare damkvirveblisTvis iseCans, rom opozicia sakuTariprincipebis erTguli araa. ase,magaliTad, „Zala erTobaSia” mudmivadprodasavlurobiT ape-lirebda da irwmuneboda, romprorusuli orientaciis partie-bTan saerTo arasodes araferieqneboda, Tumca prodasavluriZalebi nino burjanaZis gverdiTmSvenivrad grZnoben Tavs. es or-magi standarti araa?_ opoziciur partiaTa gaer-Tianeba, kerZod, „Zala erTobaSia”,Tavidan bolomde proqarTul dailuzoruli erToblioba, sadacbevri ver gebulobs, roiali saddgas.saprotesto muxts isic anadgurebs,rom bevri opozicionerilideri telekompaniebSi xSiri vizitiTkmayofilia da fiqrobs,rom xalxTan ase ufro axlos dgas.arada, saprotesto muxts is dabalistandarti amcirebs, romelsacopozicia aseTi uprincipo er-TianobiTa da svlebiT gamoxatavs.sworad gamigeT: am nawilSi me daCemi gundi mesame pirSi vsaubrobTda es principuli gadawyvetilebaa.dRes Semdegi mocemuloba gvaqvs:aravin aRar kamaTobs, rom xelisuflebaunda Seicvalos, magram Tuopozicia xalxs maRal standartsver SevTavazebT da ver davarwmunebT,rom es brZola pirdapir xalxsekuTvnis da TiToeuli opozicionerixalxis namdvili nebis gamomxatvelivarT, muxti ki ar daziandeba,TviTon procesi Seva Cix-Si, anu xalxs opoziciis mimarTndoba daekargeba, rasac oligarqida misi klani, teqnikuri da administraciuliresursis gamoyenebiT,marjved gamoiyenebs. amisdaSveba ki ar SeiZleba da sworedamitomac vambobT, rom meti efeqtianoba,sizuste, siTamame da xalxTanmeti axlo kavSiria saWiro.amas garda, mTavaria, saqarTvelosTiToeuli moqalaqe davarwmunoT,rom am brZolis Semoqmedi opoziciaki ara, qveynis interesebia!diax, xalxs simarTle Tamamad dadamajereblad unda vuTxraT, romCveni mizania, biZinas xelisuflebamravalpartiuli politikurispeqtriT CavanacvloT, raTa parlamentSimeti pluralisturi sivrceda demokratia iyos. isic saTqmelia,rom biZina ivaniSvils mixeilsaakaSviliT an romelime sxvamaRalreitinguli lideriT ar vcvliT.ufro xmamaRla unda davadeklariroT,rom ivaniSvils mravalpartiulikoaliciuri ZaliTvcvliT, sadac yvela xalxis mierminiWebuli mandatis farglebSiunda iyos!_ irakli, gulwrfeli iyavi daTqvi: opoziciidan vinmeze xom argaqvs eWvi, rom farulad „oc-nebasTan” TanamSromlobs?_ xelisuflebasTan mokavSireobamravali formiT xdeba. erTerTipirdapiri garigeba politikuriangarebaa, meore ki _ ara-irakli Rlonti:`bevriopoziciurilideri saqmissxvisi xeliTgakeTebasmieCvia!~dasavlur politikur platformazemyarad mdgari erTianobaa daamaSi vinmes mxridan eWvis Setana anmizanmimarTuli qmedebaa, an _ sibriyve.uaxloes warsulSi am gaer-Tianebam yvelaze nayofieri opoziciuriasparezoba SeZlo, raccifrebSia gamoxatuli da racsakmaod mimzidvelad gamoiyureba.gulwrfeli rom viyo, piradad me,irakli Rlonts, ufro meti moTxovnebimaqvs igive am gaerTianebasTan,radgan sakmaod TviTkritikulivar da mimaCnia, rom amformatisgan ufro meti aqtiurobada sizustea saWiro, raTa originalurobada ar daikargos da mosaxleobismaRali ndobis xarisxiSeinarCunos da ganaviTaros._ sxvaTa Soris, isic, albaT,mxolod qarTuli opoziciisTaviseburebaa, rom taim-autebsiRebs. piradad me STabeWdilebameqmneba, rom saprotesto muxtismizanmimarTuli dasusteba xdeba.vcdebi, irakli?_ da vinmem ganacxada, rom taimautsacxadebs? amis Sesaxeb ar msmenia.axali weli iyo da am drospiketireba da quCis saprotestoaqciebi saWiro araa, Tumca, albaT,naxeT, bevri opozicioneri axalwels parlamentis win Sexvda imissimboluri ilustrirebisTvis,rom brZola grZeldeba da manam ardasruldeba, vidre xalxi da qveyanaklanisa da rusuli uRlisganar ganTavisufldeba. ai, rac Seexebasaprotesto muxts, is formatebi,romelic sazogadoebis mxardaWerasar iwvevs, namdviladazianebs. magaliTad, es arafrism-Tqmeli e. w. Savi sia da ideologiursimyares gacdenil partiaTa`maSin, roca me da sxvebi aqtiuradvupirispirdebodiT ruseTs saqarTveloSi,korufcias, kriminals, nepotizms, ironiulgadawyvetilebebs, xalxis mizanmimarTulgaRaribebasa da oligarqs, batoni mamuka RiaTu konspiraciul vizitebs awyobda amukanasknelTan. Tuki me 2012 wels, axalgazrdakaci, vxedavdi rusul safrTxes `ocnebis~saxiT, ratom ver dainaxa es am adamianma?cxadia, dainaxa, magram maSin misTvis ufromniSvnelovani biznesi iyo~2828 N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.comirakli RlontTanpirdapiri msaxureba. mirCevnia,arapirdapir mokavSireobaze visaubro,Torem pirdapir mokav-Sireebs xalxi isedac cnobs davimedovneb, yvela subieqtis axlandeligadawyvetilebis lustrirebamoxdeba. saerTod, gansakuTrebiTpatara qveynebSi SeuZlebelia,rom vinmem rame damalos. amitommirCevnia, arapirdapir mokavSireobazevisaubro. am tipis kavSirimaSin yalibdeba, roca opozicionerizustad ver aanalizebs process,xalxis nebisgan Sors dgas daimiT kmayofildeba, rom politikurtoqSouebSi Cans da kvlevebSicTavi damkvidrebuli aqvs. ai, esaayvelaze didi problema. zogadad,nebismier saqmeSi saWiroa dauRalaviSroma, yoveldRiuri fiqriprogresze, siaxleze. tyuilad arvTqvi, rom „Zala erTobaSiam”, romelicZlieri da rezultaturierTianobaa, originaluroba arunda dakargos, radgan es gamousworebeliTviTziani iqneba. rocaxalxi Sengan yoveldRiur problemebzeaqcentirebas iTxovs da rocaemigracia, sikvdilianoba, korufcia,nepotizmi da komunalurservisebze fasebi maRalia, amas-Tan, bavSvic SimSilobs da moxucic,aseve gazrdilia tarifitransportze, sawvavze, samedicinoservisebze, medikamentebze dadaucveloba Tu dausjeloba ukvestandartia, ai, aq unda iyos opoziciamaxvilgonieri da swored amTemebze unda axdendes aqcentirebas,raTa xalxi darwmundes, romopozicia mis xedvebTan TanxvedraSia.aba, Tu opozicioneric imstandarts sTavazobs, rasac xelisufali,xalxma ra qnas?sxvaTa Soris, xelisuflebiswisqvilze im opozicionerTapoziciebic asxams wyals, romlebsacmaRali ndoba aqvT, magram maTiquCaSi an televiziiT danaxvaxalxs aRizianebs. amis miuxedavad,isini yvela Zvel Tu axal resurssiyeneben, rom tribunasa TuteleviziiT yelmoRerebulni gamoCndnen.es swori midgoma ki ara,sakuTari Tavisa da qveynis Ralatia.diax, bevri e. w. lideri xalxsZalian mobezrda da axal kadrebs,axal liderebs iTxovs! didi bodiSi,magram liderebi cidan arcviva, anu saprotesto muxts isicazianebs, roca zogierTi yvelaresurss iyenebs sakuTari TviTrealizebisTvis,axalgazrdebs asparezsar uxsni da yvelgan eCxirebi,raTa poziciebi SeinarCuno. imedia,qadags aravin damiwyebs, romliderma es mojadoebuli wreunda gaarRvios da asparezi moipovos.es Teoriaa, rac bevrjervcade. sirTuleebi Cems politikursaqmianobas axlda da, principSi,axlac asea, Tumca bevriTanatolisgan gansxvavebiT, arviRlebi da brZolas vagrZeleb!yovelTvis erTi pozicia mqonda:vinmes sateliti ver viqnebi! Tu amtipis kavSiri mogwonT, TqvengaxdiT Cemi sateliti!_ zogadad, gasagebia, rom yve-laferze _ kargi iqneba Tu cudi,rac qveyanaSi xdeba, pasuxismgebe-li xelisuflebaa, magram mgonia,rom garkveuli pasuxismgeblobaopoziciasac ekisreba. Seni gadasaxedidanrazea opozicia pasux-ismgebeli?_ Cemi gadasaxedidan, patara`garwmunebT, kremlSi Seqmnilikrizisi, siRaribe ruseTSi dakremlis Sovinizmi saqarTvelosTvismale pozitiviT dasruldeba!~qveynis mimarT maRali pasuxismgeblobaxelisuflebasac aqvs da _opoziciasac. TiToeuli politikosiam Sinaarsis azrs unda atarebdes,Torem politikur TeoriebSira weria, es meorexarisxovania.diax, xelisufleba, pirvel rigSi,valdebulia xalxis winaSe, magramroca xedav, rom Seni xelisufalivaldebulebiT kavSirSi sakuTarxalxTan ki ara, kremlTanaa, opoziciamyvelaferi unda gaakeTos,rom kremlis figurireba dasruldesda es mxolod maSin iqnebaSesaZlebeli, roca misi nebis gamtarixelisuflebis mmarTvelobadasruldeba! Cemi saxelmwifoebrivixedvebidan da damokidebulebebidangamomdinare, dRes yvelapasuxismgeblobas vakisreb opozicias,cxadia, aq sakuTar Tavsacmoviazreb _ 2012 wlidan moyolebuli,roca sxvebs eZinaT an am xelisuflebiskarze idgnen, me aqciebsise vaorganizebdi, rogorcSemeZlo da gamomdioda. dRes, amsituaciaSi, opoziciam unda vikisroTpasuxismgebloba yvelasirTulis daZlevaze, rac am klanisdemontaJiT unda daiwyos!_ Cven, yvelam viciT, rom pro-porciuli arCevnebi demokratiiskuTxiT wingadadgmuli nabijia,magram irakli, adamianebs, rom-lebsac SiaT, arCevnebis Catareb-is wesi naklebad ainteresebT.hoda, gana, ukeTesi ar iqneba, romopoziciam strategia Secvalosda wina planze ufro populis-turi Temebi wamowios?_ opozicia xalxTan ufro axlosrom iyos da mxolod televiziiTki ara, pirdapir, erTierTzeesaubrebodes mas, merwmuneT,es SekiTxva dRis wesrigidanmoixsneboda, magram radgan eskiTxva aqtualuria, isev Cvens, anuopoziciis sisustes vxedav, romsworad ver agvixsnia, ramdenadmniSvnelovania saarCevno sistema`kremlis msaxuri e. w. prezidentis`intronizaciaSi~ wvlili mamuka xazaraZemSeitana da amis Camorecxva advilad ar gamouva!sxvaTa Soris, es qalbatoni, Cemi azriT,saqarTveloSi rusuli specsamsaxurebiserTguli elCia. mokled, kritikuli var mamukasmimarT, magram yvela opoziconers, maT Soris,gvian gaRviZebulsac, warmatebas vusurveb!~da swored amiT iwyeba moqalaqeebiswinaSe mdgari yvela sirTulisdaZleva!_ ise, gulwrfelad rom vTq-vaT, xalxs iseTi opoziconerebisar sjera, rogoric, magaliTad,mamuka xazaraZea. „lelosTan”kiTxvebi Senc xom ar gaqvs?_ ara, ar maqvs, radgan me pauxebimaqvs, „leloSi” bevr adamiansdid pativs vcem, iq vxedav sainteresoda progresul axalgazrdapotenciur liderebs, romlebmacaraerTi mimarTulebiTmiaRwies warmatebebs, magram amadamianebs batoni mamukas faqtorinaklebad saxarbielo mdgomareobaSiayenebs._ ratom?_ maSin, roca me da sxvebi aqtiuradvupirispirdebodiT ruseTssaqarTveloSi, korufcias, kriminals,nepotizms, ironiul gadawyvetilebebs,xalxis mizanmimarTulgaRaribebasa da oligarqs, batonimamuka Ria Tu konspiraciulvizitebs awyobda am ukanasknel-Tan. Tuki me 2012 wels, axalgazrdakaci, vxedavdi rusul safrTxes„ocnebis” saxiT, ratom ver dainaxaes am adamianma? cxadia, dainaxa,magram maSin misTvis ufro mniSvnelovanibiznesi iyo. is droc magondeba,roca gzis fulic ki argvqonda axalgazrdebs, ar vmuSaobdiT,ar gveqonda Semosavalis wyaroda xSirad fexiT davdiodiTaqciebidan aqciebze, diplomatebTan,brifingebs vawyobdiT daxom ar ggoniaT, rom vinmes vinmezenaklebad SegveZlo pirad interesebzemorgeba da konformistulsivrceSi yofna? rogor ggoniaT,„dalagebebi” didi sirTulea amqveyanaSi? ubralod, arsebobs SublisZarRvi da arsebobs principi,romelsac zogi Ralatobs da zogi_ ara. an xar lideri an ara da armjera droebiTi liderebis! batonmaxazaraZem Tavad axsena, romruseTidan valdebulebebis gareSeSeuZlebelia kapitalis gatana. Tuamdeni ici da gesmis, raRas esaubrebiam kacs amerikul proeqtzemaSin, roca pirdapir geubneba, romar esmis, ra unda aSS-s Sav zRvaSi?rac mTavaria: kremlis msaxuri e.w. prezidentis „intronizaciaSi”wvlili mamuka xazaraZem Seitanada amis Camorecxva advilad ar gamouva!sxvaTa Soris, es qalbatoni,Cemi azriT, saqarTveloSi rusulispecsamsaxurebis erTgulielCia. mokled, kritikuli var mamukasmimarT, magram yvela opoziconers,maT Soris, gvian gaRviZebulsac,warmatebas vusurveb!_ zogadad, xom ar movida dro,rom politikaSi sruliad axalisaxeebi movidnen?_ eg dro didi xania, mosulia,ager, ramdenime dRis win vnaxe igive„lelos” erT-erTi warmomadgenlis,daviT usufaSvilis gancxadeba,rom momaval xelisufleba-Si mzadaa, kvlav parlamentisTavmjdomare gaxdes. Zalian gama-Riziana am damokidebulebam! armesmis, Tavad ar uqmniT es momxveWelobada „nagloba” uxerxulobas?!axali kadrebis, potenciuriliderebis gareSe fass dakargavsnebismieri procesi da es unda gaigosyvela opoziciurma subieqtma.opoziciaSi ai, aseTi adamianebiarian xelisuflebis pirdapiri Tuarapirdapiri dasayrdenebi_ yovelive zemoTqmulidan ga-momdinare, opozicias ra meqa-nizmi aqvs, rom 2020-is arCevnebi„ocnebam” ar gaayalbos?_ jer arCevnebamde mivideT...mgoni, vCqarobT. meqanizmi gulwrfelobada, vimeoreb, xalxTan axlosyofna da qveynis dasavlelpartniorebTan meti muSaobaa._ kidev erTi Tema: vladimirputinma mTavroba gadaayena. irak-li, Seni azriT, es saqarTvelozera gavlenas iqoniebs?_ garwmunebT, kremlSi Seqmnilikrizisi, siRaribe ruseTSi dakremlis Sovinizmi saqarTvelosTvismale pozitiviT dasruldeba!_ „endiais” kvlevebiT, kaxakalaZe „ocnebis” yvela liderzereitingulia, es imas xom ar niSnavs,rom Tbilisis mers „ocneba-Si” problemebi Seeqmneba?_ ar vici, ver getyvi... eWvianida kompleqsebiani kacia biZina,RmerTma uwyis, am faqtze rogorireagirebs._ rac Seexeba momaval saparlamentoarCevnebs, „kanoni da sa-marTali” damoukideblad gamovaTu „Zala erTobaSiasTan” erTadiqneba?_ amaze komentars axla ar gavakeTeb,radgan gundSi siRrmiseulimsjeloba ar gvqonia. Cven vmuSaobT,vcdilobT, xalxTan axlosviyoT da jer kidev bevri gvaqvssamuSao. erTs ki anonsad getyviT:„kanoni da samarTali” rusuli interesebisgamtar erT partiasTanerTad ar iqneba da amis SesaxebTavmjdomarem, qalbatonma TakoCarkvianmac, detalurad ganmarta._ sxvaTa Soris, „endiais” bolokvlevaSi „kanoni da samarTali”ver moxvda. amas riT xsni?_ „kanoni da samarTali” axalgazrdapolitikuri Zalaa, Tanrogorc giTxariT, jer isev bevrigvaqvs samuSao, vmuSaobT da Sedegebiciqneba._ bolos, irakli, ra uSvelisam qveyanas?_ korufciis Semcireba, nepotizmissircxvilad qceva da kriminalizeba,progresuli axalgazrdaliderebis qveynis samsaxurSiCayeneba, mokekluce, fuqsavatipolitikosebis arenidan gawveva dameti demokratia. xelisuflebasxalxi unda marTavdes da ara xelisufleba_ xalxs!N1 (303) 21.1-27.1.2020 w.29
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