ST/A/R-50-54 (Seiteneindrücke)

10 ST/A/R/T +
B: Was that a series? How lang d;d you do that for?
T: About 40 pictures over two year s. Theo I photographed the
pictures and put them on my website. They still exist there , my gift
back to the internet.
B: Let 's talk about your curre11t pictures . You 've already said that you
mai11/y paint wome11 's bodies , in intimate or private activi,;es such as
washing on the toilet. Situations in whic/1 they are not normally por ­
trayed; sometimes the situatio11 also appears 1111pleasa11t, dislocated,
like the picture where the womanfigure is sta11di11g 011 a wash basin
with one leg pointing upwards. The red paint nm11ingfro111 the tap
brings up the associatio11 with blood, or what ab011t the brightfigure
in front of a dark backgrou11d with a yellow spot in the upper part of
the pich1re?
T: That 's a light bulb. Forme these women figure s are all very
light and joyful , full of zest for life and fun. Maybe women understand
me better there than men, as it seems to me just now.
When it's a question ofwomen , men easily project their ideas or
desire s onto something that 's presented in a different way. Art
is anyway generally dominated by men ancl to be an artist as a
women always means tough competition. I also thought this with
my prior decision to mainly depict women's bodies in my picture s.
A lot of artists insist on putting men on their canvas, they ignore
the figure ofthe opposite sex. l'm not criticising that , it's simply a
fact. But when it comes to the point, what l ' m doing now is almost
something like revenge. I don't think that l 'm already so important
that it has an effect but it 's an answer to the completely male
history of art. I really once searched for women figures in contemporary
artists ' work and didn't find a single one. Apparently only
the male world exists for these men!
B: Competition itself is often seen as such a male principle that our
society forces wome11 to submit to if they wa11t to count for something
You raise two issues that we can follow up, the depiction of women
in art a11d women as artists. My disposition to see somethi11gfull of
sujfering in representatio11al portrayal can, if anything , probably
be explained by my Catlwlic origi11, which is of course also heavily
burde11ed in relation to the role of women . How is it with your relation
to women artists,for example what da Ci11dy Shen11an or, in Austria,
Valie Export with Peter Weibel an the lead, who have taken the role of
women in art as a subject , mea11 to you ?
T: They have nothing to do with my art. lt 's almost a tragedy , for
me men as arti sts were ahvays more important ancl more interesting,
not least becau se I wanted to fight against their influence. A
reverse effect often even happens , feminists talk so much about
men that men gain in importance again because of it.
B: Let 's talk more about women . Women as artists have bee11 the
exceptio11 in art history. In the Renaissance , where strong , socially
influential women were courted a11d there were women patrons and art
collectors, as a woman painter only Sofonisba Anguissola comes to
mind. Besides her self-portraits she mai11ly pai11ted women . And thi11k
of the depictions of women beginningfrom biblical scenes , Susa1ma
in the Bath, but not only woman as an erotic object of male desire but
also idealised as Venus or in the many pictures of the Virgin Mary . So
maybe you 're right about the Jack of depictions of wome11 as far as
men in today 's art scene are concerned . Instead there are now more
female artists wlw often experiment with seif- portrayal
Nr. 50/2016
T: Either they portray themselves , like Elke Kry stufek, or the y
portray themselves inclirectly, like Tracey Emin, who even if they
don 't show themselves , always circle around themselves. Theo
Emin shows her bed with all her private things , dirty sheets, like
she's the victim of men . She became a kind of pop star or celebrity
because she only told about herself and her misfo rtune , her difficult
childhood and so on. That 's also a way to become famous. I
want to depict women but in a more general way, not fixated on
myself and also not only on women. What I am now showing at
the Wittgensteinhaus is a series, a kind of research proj ect, but I
don 't want myselfto become the counterpart ofthose artists for
whom only the male world exist s. As far as the depictions of women
you mentioned before are concerned, think ofwhat situations
they are mostly pictured in. In Vermeer they are only allowed to
open lette rs, they probably can't read at all, or in Daumier the y
are allowed to yawn while they 'r e doing the ironing. Or Millet, the
poor, bent-over women with two or three dirt y children. In these
cases there are no men to be seen of course. Toulouse-Lautrec then
depict s them as courtesans , Degas shows them at least in the better
position of ballet dancers. They are all object s of the desiring,
male gaze. With female philosophers it will be about the same as
with female artists, but Wittgenstein at least built the house in
which we're exhibiting for his sister.
B: Perhaps you would now like to go into more detail about what you
before called your prior decisions? We ca11 combine it with you talking
about one or more of your pictures . There 's this picture where
a woma11 is depicted in profile andfrom a red contai11er in the upper
right- hand corner a red hose leads to her behind.
T: That 's a very nice pink enema . Ancl this picture also has perspective
depth , which, as you remarked, isn 't there in the other
pictures.
B: Is there a special reasonfor you choosing to depict an enema?
T: No special one. On the one band the point is that something is
being washed out, something comes in from outside and something
comes out again. Naturally that is also intended to say something
allegorical. And I try to transform the bathroom in my house in
the picture.
B: The slwrtened perspectives , the space appears to collapse in on
itself. Most of your pictures have a title. Tltis 011e too?
T: lt 's simply called „Klistier " (,,Enema"). lt will soon be shown at
the Albertina in the Mozart exhibition, along with another picture
that 's called „Kotzen " (,,Puking").
B: But puking can 't now also be considered as a pleasurable situati-
011!
T: lt can, it's totall y funny , meant comically. The title already has
something of a joke about it.
B: Good, being sick ca11 be the consequence of a successful evening
when too much was dnmk. There 's another picture, I think it 's called
,,Picknick mit Drogen" (,,Picnic with Dmgs' '). What dmgs?
T: Happy-maker s and anti-depre ssants. The picnic takes place in
bed between pillows, so once again it's something that normally
happens outside ancl has been moved inside .
B: So what look like domino pieces are in fact the tablet packages .
A11d a mouse-like animal is coming across the bedspread, what 's that?
T: lt 's a fart, the result ofthe happy-makers. But careful, ifwe go
on talking like this , people will think we're stoned. What kind of
animal did you think? A snake ?
B:A mouse .
T: But then what's that long thing there ?
B: Its tail.
T: lt 's aliens that I depict, or a cross between aliens and people.
Freaks, in fact. And they can also have a tail. But I like the fact
that people can interpret thin gs into my pictures. As an artist I
don 't want to control what the representation will be seen as. Beforehand
you spoke about this watercolour effect. The pictures are
also very airy, they have no weight in their presentation, they 'r e
not concrete , heavy material. The pictures can be seen in the attitude
of „bad painting", but only as one aspect. At the same time
the colours are very light , with an impre ssionistic cheerfulness.
Anyway, my pictures should be flexible.
Textfrom:,,Der Ficker" Second Series, Haus Wittgenstein, Schlebriigge/Vien11a
2006, p. 156-163
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Installation views from Tamuna Sirbiladze
Charim Ungar Contemporary, Berlin, 2010