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98 I YASUTANI ' s INTERVIEws WITH WESTERNERShave a sign put above my place saying I should not be struck with thekyosaku? Is it because you feel I am hopeless?ROSHI: I was under the impression that you, like most W estemers,did not like to be struck. The senior monitor has been striking everyonehard, and I thought if you were struck it might interfere withyour zazen. You don't mind being hit?STUDENT [smiling] : Well, most of the time I don't, if I'm not hittoo hard.ROSHI: Yesterday the young woman sitting opposite you, whohappens to be Japanese, was struck with a great deal of force, to spurher on of course. It was the first time she had been hit and she wasso surprised and bewildered that she left the sesshin immediately.Fortunately she came back today and told me what had happened,so I had a sign placed over her saying she was not to be struck.STUDENT: Anyway, I am glad to learn you don't think I am ahopeless case.This is my next point: Feeling energetic this morning, I began tothink: "I must empty my mind of useless thoughts so that wisdommay enter." Then, realizing that this was the work of the ego, I becamecliscouraged. I felt like a donkey that could be made to moveonly by having a carrot dangled before its eyes.Rosm: Do you wish enlightenment?STUDENT: I don't know what enlightenment is. Yesterday I toldyou I wanted to banish my ego so that I could become a little wiser.I suppose I am more interested in getting rid of ego than in attainingenlightenment.ROSHI: Intrinsically there is no ego-it is something we ourselvescreate. Still, it is this self-created ego that leads us to zazen, so it isnot to be despised. Zazen, as you have probably realized, brings aboutan attrition of the ego. You can also get rid of ego by abiding by therules of sesshin instead of following your own inclinations. If, forexample, you don't want to rise when the bell rings for everyone to getup and walk around, you are catering to your ego and so enhancingit. The same is true of eating. You surrender to your ego each timeyou decide to forego eating communally and go off to eat by yoursel£Now, since ego is rooted in the subconsciousness, the only wayto uproot it is by a thoroughgoing enlightenment.* * *