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IIO/ YASUTANI ' s INTERVIEWS WITH WESTERNERSing one hand against the other] . Once you realize Mu, you knowthat nothing can be opposed to it, since everything is Mu.Now you can begin to appreciate why the kyosaku is used-tohelp you exert yourself beyond your normal capacity. But as youdislike the kyosaku, I can ask the chief monitor to slap you hard onthe back from time to time. With that as a spur you can mobilizegreater strength and energy than you have up to now.* * *ROSHI: Were this a certain large monastery and you came beforethe roshi in dokusar. as you are now doing, he would sharply demand:••show me Mu!" If you couldn't show him, he would warn you notto return until you could. Dismayed, you would find excuses to stayaway from dokusan fo r fear of being rebuked because you had noreal answer to Mu yet. On the other hand, if you didn't go voluntarily,you would be yanked off your seat by the head monks andpushed or dragged into dokusan. Not knowing which way to turn,you might out of sheer desperation produce the answer to Mu.For a variety of reasons we don't employ such measures here.But exert this pressure on yoursel£ Come before me feeling that,come what may, you will demonstrate the truth of Mu. Now goback to your place and do your best !* * *ROSHI: I see you still haven't penetrated Mu . ... Why not? • • •You begin by concentrating intensely, then you slacken off. For atime you hold on to Mu the way I am holding on to my baton[grasping baton tightly with both hands]. Then you relax like this[dropping baton]. That will never do ! When you walk only Muwalks, when you eat only Mu eats, when you work only Mu works,and when you come before me only Mu appears. Prostrating yourself,it is Mu that prostrates. Speaking, it is Mu that speaks. Lyingdown to sleep, it is Mu that sleeps and Mu that awakens. Havingreached the point where your seeing, your hearing, your touching,your smelling, your tasting, and your thinking are nothing but Mu,suddenly you directly perceive Mu.* * *ROSHI: To come to the realization of Mu you must get into thestate of a lover who has a mind only fo r his beloved. The average