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us f YASUTANI ' s INTERVIEws wiTH WESTERNERSAnd if it has shape or form, it is not Mu. What you have in yourmind is merely a picture of Mu. You must discard it-STUDENT [interrupting] : I can assure you I have no pictures in mymind!nosm: Mu is beyond meaning and no-meaning. It cannot heknown either by the senses or by the discursive mind. Get rid ofyour false notions, and Awareness will abruptly come to you. Butyou must apply yourself more fervently. You must cling to Mumore tenaciously, like a hungry dog with its hone. ConcentrateMu! Mu ! Mu! with all your heart.* * *nosm: I can tell from the way you walk in here that you are stillnot one with Mu. You are wobbling-your mind is ,distracted.If you were one with Mu, you would come befo re me with anWlhurried yet firm gait, wholly absorbed, as though you werecarrying the most precious treasure in the world.STUDENT: Anyway, I am no longer in duality as I used to be.When I laugh I don't think "I am laughing" hut "just laughing."The same when I feel pain, and the same with everything else.ROSHI: That is all right, hut if you want to realize your Truenature,you must not pause to indulge in self-congratulation. If youdo, you will separate yourself fr om Mu and land in the very dualityyou are trying to escape from. For enlightenment all you need do isachieve total oneness with Mu, nothing more. You must empty yourmind of all delusive notions and become like a sleepwalker carryinga fragile treasure that could be broken with one misstep. There mustbe no wobbling, not the slightest.STUDENT: I feel I am not far from enlightenment, but somehow Ican't summon up that last push.nosm: The realization of your Self-nature can he compared tothis [placing the palm of one hand over the palm of the other]. Thistop hand is like a large stone. It represents the average person's mind,a mind dominated by delusive thought. The bottom hand representsenlightenment. In reality these are merely two aspects of the One.Now, in order to turn over the top hand you must use tremendousforce, for this mind is heavy with delusion. "Force" means unremittingconcentration. If you merely "raise" this mind on top slightlyand then let it "drop" again, you will never experience your True-