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148 / YASUTANI ' s INTERVIEWS WITH WESTERNERSSTUDENT: In questioning "Who am I?" I have come to the conclusionthat I am this body, that is, these eyes, these legs, and so forth.At the same time I realize that these organs do not exist independently.If I were to take out my eye and place it in front of me, for example,it could not function as an eye. Neither could my leg functionas a leg if it were separated from my body. For walking, my legs neednot only my body but also the ground, just as my eyes need objectsto perceive in order to perform the act of seeing. Furthermore, whatmy eyes see and what my legs walk on are part of the universe.Therefore I am the universe. Is this correct?ROSHI: You are the universe all right, but what you have just givenme is an abstraction, a mere reconstruction of reality, not reality itsel£You must direcdy grasp reality.STUDENT: But how do I do that?Rosm: Simply by questioning "Who am I?" until abrupdy youperceive your True-nature with clarity and certainty. Remember, youare neither your body nor your mind. And you are not your mindadded to your body. Then what are you? If you would grasp thereal You and not merely a figment, you must constandy ask yourself"Who am I?" with absolute devotion.* * *STUDENT: Last time you said I was not my mind and not my body,I don't understand. Ifl am neither of these nor a combination of them,what am I?ROSHI: Were you to ask the average person what he is, he wouldsay, "My mind" or "My body" or "My mind and body," but noneof this is so. We are more than our mind or our body or both. OurTrue-nature is beyond all categories. Whatever you can conceive orimagine is but a fragment of yourself, hence the real You cannot befound through logical deduction or intellectual analysis or endlessimagining.If I were to cut off my hand or my leg, the real I would not bedecreased one whit. Stricdy speaking, this body and mind are alsoyou but only a fraction. The essence of your True-nature is no differentfrom that of this stick in front of me or this table or this clockinfact every single object in the universe. When you directly experiencethe truth of this, it will be so convincing that you will ex-