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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />

ciaSi korufciaa-meTqi.<br />

_ kaklisa da Txilis nergebis<br />

garda, korufciis sxva magaliTe-<br />

bis dasaxeleba SegiZliaT?<br />

_ yvelafers gadamowmeba unda.<br />

xom vambobdi, veluri nergebi Semodis-meTqi.<br />

ai, axla, komisiis Seqmnas<br />

moviTxov, raTa Semowmdes,<br />

aWaris soflis meurneobaSi korufcia<br />

aris Tu ara.<br />

sxvaTa Soris, bujetidan araer-<br />

Ti arafrismomcemi proeqti dafinansda,<br />

raSic kolosaluri Tanxa<br />

daixarja. arada, savsebiT SesaZlebeli<br />

iyo, rom es Tanxa sxva sferos<br />

ganviTarebas moxmareboda.<br />

_ aWaris umaRlesi sabWos „oc-<br />

nebis” umravlesoba, ase vTqvaT,<br />

antikorufciuli komisiis Seqmnas<br />

mxars dauWers?<br />

_ Tu ar dauWers, sazogadoeba<br />

amasac gaigebs.<br />

_ sxvaTa Soris, wlebis ganmav-<br />

lobaSi yuradRebas kidev erT<br />

problemaze amaxvilebdiT da am-<br />

bobdiT, aWaraSi aralegaluri<br />

saswavleblebi arsebobs, sadac<br />

muslim sasuliero pirebs amzade-<br />

beno. umaRles sabWoSi am Temasac<br />

xom ar wamowevT?<br />

_ ra Tqma unda, wamovwev. simar-<br />

Tle giTxraT, jer bolomde ar<br />

var garkveuli, reglamentiT risi<br />

ufleba maqvs, magram erTi cxadia:<br />

aWaraSi raRac religiuri saswavleblebi<br />

ixsneba.<br />

_ es saswavleblebi safrTxis<br />

Semcveli ratom aris?<br />

_ saerTod, tradiciuli islamis<br />

winaaRmdegi ar var _ aWaraSi<br />

tradiciuli islami iyo da axlac<br />

aris, magram amas garda, aWaraSi<br />

sxvadasxva muslimuri dajgufeba<br />

arsebobs.<br />

aseve salafitebic arian. salafizmi,<br />

rogorc vici, vahabizmis<br />

erT-erTi ganStoebaa, rasac unda<br />

SevebrZoloT imitom, rom es terorizmis<br />

budea. iciT, didi memed<br />

abaSiZe ras ambobda? _ Cvens qarTvel<br />

ZmebTan erTad muslimi Zmebic<br />

varTo. vahabistebisTvis ki qarTveli<br />

Zma ar arsebobs! maTTvis Zma<br />

mxolod muslimia da meti aravin!<br />

xvdebiT, ra Sorsmimavali gegmebi<br />

aqvT?<br />

mokled, Cven unda SevecadoT,<br />

im muslimuri skolebis saswavlo<br />

programebi ganaTlebis saministrom<br />

daamticos. dRes aravin icis,<br />

aseT saswavleblebSi ras aswavlian!<br />

amas garda, iciT, kidev ra<br />

kanonia misaRebi?<br />

_ ra kanoni?<br />

_ maT, vinc TurqeTSi, iransa Tu<br />

arabeTSi religiur ganaTlebas<br />

miiRebs da ukan dabrundeba, saqar-<br />

TveloSi maRali Tanamdebobis<br />

dakavebis ufleba ar unda hqondeT!<br />

_ ratom?<br />

_ magaliTad, TurqeTSi erdoRanma<br />

kanoni miiRo, romlis<br />

Tanaxmadac, molas, romelsac ganaTleba<br />

sxva qveyanaSi aqvs miRebuli,<br />

Tanamdebobis dakavebis<br />

ufleba ar aqvs da mas SeuZlia,<br />

ubralod, mola iyos da sasuliero<br />

ierarqiaSi win ver wava.<br />

_ SeiZleba, meSleba, magram<br />

analogiuri kanoni, mgoni, azer-<br />

baijanSic moqmedebs.<br />

_ aseTi kanoni saqarTveloSic<br />

unda miviRoT da ratom ar SeiZleba,<br />

rom, magaliTad, Tbilisis saxelmwifo<br />

universitetSi specialuri<br />

fakulteti gaixsnas, sadac axalgazrdebi<br />

Teologias Seiswavlian?<br />

_ ucxoeTSi religiis skolad-<br />

amTavrebulma xalxma saqarTvel-<br />

oSi maRali Tanamdeboba mainc,<br />

ratom ar unda daikavos?<br />

_ imitom, rom am xalxis mentaliteti<br />

Secvlilia da qarTul<br />

interesebs veRar gaatarebs.<br />

`roca aikrZaleba, `nacionalur moZraobasTan~ ai, maSin aRar viTanamSromleb!<br />

minda, sworad gamigoT, laparaki razea: vTqvaT, `nacionaluri moZraoba~<br />

konstruqciuli winadadebiT gamovida da raxan `nacionaluri moZraobaa~, ra<br />

vqna, am konstruqciul winadadebas ignorireba gavukeTo? yvelafers, rac Cemi<br />

kuTxisTvis sasikeTo iqneba, aucileblad davuWer mxars!~<br />

_ am iniciativis Tundac kanonproeqtis<br />

doneze ganxilva, vf-<br />

qirob, did aJiotaJs gamoiwvevs.<br />

_ SeiZleba, magram Tu Teologiis<br />

Seswavla ginda, maincdamainc<br />

TurqeTSi ratom unda waxvide? Tu<br />

vinmes muftoba unda, keTili inebos<br />

da religiuri ganaTleba<br />

saqarTveloSi miiRos!<br />

damerwuneT, im axalgazrdebis<br />

99 procenti, vinc religiur ganaTlebas<br />

TurqTsa da iranSi iRebs,<br />

saqarTveloSi qarTuli azrovnebiT<br />

aRar brundeba. swored es<br />

xalxi qmnis dRes aWaraSi problemebs<br />

da meti aravin!<br />

_ batono merab, am sakiTxs,<br />

vatyob, kargad icnobT da isic<br />

gecodinebaT, axalgazrdebi TurqeTSi,<br />

iransa da sxva aziur qveynebSi<br />

religiuri ganaTlebis mis-<br />

aRebad rogor xvdebian?<br />

_ Zalian didi dafinanseba modis,<br />

specialurad gaWirvebul<br />

ojaxebs arCeven, maTi Svilebi mihyavT<br />

da yvelanair privilegias<br />

uqmnian _ aswavlian, sacxovrebli-<br />

Ta da sakvebiTac uzrunvelyofen.<br />

_ anu eWvobT, rom yvelafer<br />

amis ukan ucxouri specsamsaxure-<br />

bi dganan?<br />

_ diax.<br />

sxvaTa Soris, zogs ar unda<br />

aRiaros, magram arsebobs Turqe-<br />

Tis sagareo saqmeTa yofili ministris,<br />

daviT oRlus satelevizio<br />

gancxadeba, sadac is pirdapir<br />

akeTebs miniSnebas, odesme baTums<br />

aucileblad davibrunebTo.<br />

_ batono merab, ukve kanonmde-<br />

beli, anu sajaro piri xarT da<br />

Tqveni nebismieri gancxadeba sa-<br />

zogadoebis mxridan SesaZloa,<br />

sxvanairad iyos aRqmuli. amasTan,<br />

imiTac unda dainteresdeT, ram-<br />

N5 (266) 19.02-25.02.2019 w.<br />

denime dRis win baTumSi moRvawe<br />

Turqma investorma rom ganacxa-<br />

da, _ CemTan movidnen da miTxres,<br />

saqarTvelo unda davtovo,<br />

Torem problemebi Semeqmnebao.<br />

_ pirvel rigSi, uflebadamcveli<br />

var da Tu es adamiani mommar-<br />

Tavs, mis uflebebs, ra Tqma unda,<br />

davicav, magram CemTvis ar moumar-<br />

Tavs.<br />

_ Turqma biznesmenma muqaris<br />

Sesaxeb sajaro gancxadeba gaake-<br />

Ta da es sakmarisi ar aris, rom<br />

misi uflebebi daicvaT?<br />

_ gjeraT, rom masTan vinme mivida<br />

da uTxra, aqedan wadi, Torem<br />

problemebi Segeqmnebao?<br />

_ amaSi daujerebeli ra aris,<br />

miT umetes, rom TurqeTisa Tu<br />

iranis moqalaqeebis winaaRmdeg<br />

saqarTveloSi saprotesto aqcia<br />

araerTxel gamarTula.<br />

_ me ar mjera.<br />

_ ratom ar gjeraT?<br />

_ imitom ar mjera, rom SeiZleba,<br />

am adamians rame danaSauli<br />

hqonda Cadenili, Torem ver warmomidgenia,<br />

dRes aWaraSi vinme investorTan<br />

mivides da qveynis datoveba<br />

mosTxovos. piriqiT, investorebs<br />

mivesalmebiT.<br />

_ sxvaTa Soris, im politikuri<br />

partiis warmomadgeneli xarT,<br />

romelic baTumSi meCeTis mSene-<br />

blobis winaaRmdeg gamarTuli<br />

aqciebis avangardSi idga.<br />

_ ara, es Zalian didi Secdomaa.<br />

_ Secdoma ratom aris? ra, „pa-<br />

triotTa aliansi” baTumSi meCeT-<br />

is mSeneblobas ar aprotestebda?<br />

_ piradad me var imis iniciatori,<br />

rom baTumSi ase vTqvaT,<br />

erTi qolgis qveS aSendes meCeTic,<br />

marTlmadidebluri da kaTolikuri<br />

eklesiebi da aseve sinagogac.<br />

sxvaTa Soris, es idea, jer<br />

kidev, maSin gaJRerda, roca qalaqis<br />

Tavi andronikaSvili iyo, magram<br />

maSin am ideis ganxorcielebas<br />

pirvelma msoflio omma SeuSala<br />

xeli. am ideis Sesaxeb molaparakebebi<br />

muslimebTan gvaqvs, romlebmac<br />

es wamowyeba kargad miiRes.<br />

axla am ideis Sesaxeb molaparakebas<br />

sapatriarqosTan vapirebT.<br />

„patriotTa aliansi” qarTuli<br />

meCeTis aSenebis winaaRmdeg arasodes<br />

gamosula. es tyuili da<br />

cudi Jurnalistebis mier aris<br />

interpretirebuli!<br />

_ ukacravad, Jurnalistebs<br />

raSi gvdebT brals?<br />

_ Cven azizies saxelobis meCe-<br />

Tis winaaRmdegebi viyaviT, romelic<br />

TurqeTis daJinebuli moTxovniT<br />

baTumis centrSi unda<br />

aSenebuliyo. sinamdvileSi, es meCe-<br />

Ti ki ara TurqeTis dazvervis<br />

raRac centri iqneboda.<br />

Tu meCeTi gvinda, mas adgilobrivi<br />

mosaxleobis gamokiTxviT<br />

avaSenebT da ara _ TurqeTis moTxovniT!<br />

_ batono merab, Tqveni ganvlili<br />

cxovreba imis Tqmis safuZvels<br />

maZlevs, rom revolucionerad<br />

da meamboxed Segracx-<br />

oT. amboxebebsa da minirevolu-<br />

ciebs aWaris umaRles sabWoSic<br />

xom ar moawyobT xolme?<br />

_ ara, me mxolod da mxolod simarTles<br />

vityvi! weRandeli Tqmisa<br />

vin aris da ra gegmebi aqvs<br />

zaza oquaSvilis Semcvlels?<br />

ar iyos, Casafrebuli ar var!<br />

_ anu „ocnebas” SeurigdiT?<br />

_ ara! „ocnebas” rogor Sevurigdebi,<br />

roca Cemi qveyana ukan<br />

da ukan midis, magram xom SeiZleba,<br />

rame kargi gaakeTos da amas<br />

mxolod mivesalmebi! Tu „ocneba”<br />

sisuleleebs gaakeTebs, ra Tqma<br />

unda, Tavs Sevaklav!<br />

_ Svidi welia, „ocneba” xelis-<br />

uflebaSia da Tu pirvel periods<br />

ar CavTvliT, mmarTvel gunds mudam<br />

akritikebT da ratom ggoni-<br />

aT, rom axla kargs gaakeTebs?<br />

sxvaTa Soris, maxsovs, aqtiurad<br />

ibrZodiT baTumis „ocnebis qala-<br />

qis” mosaxleobis uflebebisTvis,<br />

aseve bankebisa da kerZo mevaxSee-<br />

bisgan dazaralebulebsac icav-<br />

diT. es problemebi arc dRes<br />

mogvarebula...<br />

_ ras hqvia, es problemebi damaviwyda?<br />

ipoTekiT dazaralebul-<br />

ebs dResac gverdiT vudgavar.<br />

_ umaRles sabWoSi am kuTxiT<br />

ar imuSavebT?<br />

_ ra Tqma unda, aucileblad.<br />

saerTod, problema uamravia.<br />

sxvaTa Soris, iTqva, rom „ocnebis<br />

qalaqSi” asi milioni Caideba,<br />

magram sainteresoa, rodis?<br />

„ocnebis qalaqis” mcxovreblebi<br />

iTxovdnen, miwa mogveciT, anu<br />

sadme dagvasaxleTo, magram es<br />

problema meSvide welia, gaiwela.<br />

bavSvebi gaizardnen da am xalxis<br />

pirobac Seicvala.<br />

_ „ocnebis qalaqis” mosaxleo-<br />

ba dRes ras iTxovs?<br />

_ baTumSi gazrdili bavSvi<br />

sacxovreblad ninowmindasa da<br />

walkaSi aRar wava. amitom xelisuflebam<br />

sakuTari Secdoma Tavadve<br />

unda gamoasworos da „ocnebis<br />

qalaqis” adgilas korpusebi aaSenos,<br />

sadac es xalxi dasaxldeba. es<br />

moTxovna xelisuflebam gaigo da<br />

ramdenime kviris win riJvaZem ganacxada,<br />

am teritoriaze korpusebis<br />

mSenebloba daiwyebao. es ar<br />

unda gamixardes da amas ar unda<br />

mivesalmo? ai, aseT konstruqciul<br />

urTierTobazea saubari.<br />

_ gasagebia, magram Tqvens kon-<br />

struqciulobas zogma SesaZloa,<br />

sxva sarCuli gamoakeros da Tqvas,<br />

„patriotebi” ocnebasTan Tan-<br />

amSromlobeno.<br />

_ „qarTuli ocneba” „patriot-<br />

Ta alianss” ufro ebrZvis, vidre<br />

_ „nacionalur moZraobas”!<br />

_ es saidan moitaneT?<br />

_ axlave getyviT: igive saprezidento<br />

arCevnebSi iZulebulebi<br />

viyaviT, salome zurabiSvilisTvis<br />

migveca xma da Cveni mxardamWerebis<br />

mobilizeba gagvekeTebina.<br />

_ ratom gaxdiT iZulebuli,<br />

rom zurabiSvilisTvis dageWiraT<br />

mxari?<br />

_ iZulebulebi imitom gavxdiT,<br />

rom „nacionalebis” dabrunebis<br />

winapiroba ar Seqmniliyo. or kedels<br />

Sua amitomac gaviWyliteT, magram<br />

imedi maqvs, rom Zalian male<br />

kidev ufr gavZlierdebiT da xalxic<br />

mixvdeba, rom „patriotTa aliansi”<br />

is politikuri Zalaa, romelsac<br />

saxelmwifos marTva SeuZlia.<br />

_ mainc ver damisabuTeT, raSi<br />

gamoixateba, rom „qarTuli ocne-<br />

ba” „patriotTa alianss” Tundac<br />

aWaraSi ebrZvis?<br />

_ 2016 wels gagaxsenebT, roca<br />

arCevnebamde zustad 20 dRiT<br />

adre „patriotTa aliansma” baTumis<br />

eras moedanze, daaxloebiT, 20-<br />

25 aTasi adamiani SevkribeT, magram<br />

iciT, ceskom ra dawera?<br />

_ ra?<br />

_ ceskom dawera, rom aWaraSi<br />

TiTqos mxolod xuTi aTasma amomrCevelma<br />

mogvca xma. es xom absurdia<br />

da vin daijerebs? saboloo<br />

jamSi, aWaris umaRles sabWoSi<br />

erTi kaciT SevediT da es maSin,<br />

roca, minimum, oTxi deputati<br />

unda gvyoloda.<br />

_ laparakia, rom SesaZloa, va-<br />

damdeli saparlamento arCevnebi<br />

dainiSnos. Tu ase moxda, deputa-<br />

tis mandatis datoveba mogiwevT.<br />

am mocemulobaSi, ar gerCiaT, rom<br />

isev garedan gebrZolaT?<br />

_ giTxariT da kidev geubnebiT:<br />

CemTvis aWaris umaRlesi sabWos<br />

wevroba Tanamdeboba ki ara, tribunaa,<br />

rom xelisuflebas Cemi<br />

kuTxis, Cemi aWaris mosaxleobis<br />

satkivari metad davanaxo!<br />

rac Seexeba vadamdel arCevnebs,<br />

jer amaze partiis liderebTan ar<br />

misaubria, Tumca Cems pirad pozicias<br />

getyviT: aWaraSi „patriotTa<br />

alianss” Zalian didi reitingi aqvs<br />

da Tu undaT, vadamdeli arCevnebi<br />

xvalve daniSnon! xalxi xedavs,<br />

rom mis gverdiT vdgavarT da diax,<br />

swored Cven varT is Zala, romelsac<br />

SeuZlia, raRac gaakeTos!<br />

17

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