qronika+266

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
unda moxdes is, rasac dahpirda.
2019-dan 2020-mde sazogadoebam
im cvlilebebis gaazreba unda
SeZlos, rac moxdeba.
_ Tqven eka beselias Tanamoazred
miiCneviT, piradi cx-
ovrebis amsaxveli kadrebis
SemTxvevaSic pirvelma ganacxa-
deT prokuraturaSi. rogor
fiqrobT, visTan midis kvali?
_ simarTle giTxraT, „nacionaluri
moZraobis” imdeni wevria
gadmobargebuli „qarTul ocnebaSi”,
rom sad aris „qarTuli
ocneba” da sad _ „nacionaluri
moZraoba”, ver gaigebT. Tan vxedavT,
rom „ocnebis” „Zvel saxeebs”
aviwroeben. rac Seexeba kadrebs,
mxolod am formiT ar
iyo Seviwroeba, amas win uZRoda
sxvadasxva statia, „feik niusebi”,
razedac reagireba ar yofila,
amitom adamianebma miiCnies, rom
dausjelobis sindromi iyo.
verc imas gamovricxav, rom „qar-
Tul ocnebaSi” miRweuli SeTanxmebis
darRveva surda vinmes.
msgavsi xifaTi garedan naklebad
xdeba, ufro Signidan modis. is
reaqciebi, rac mosamarTleebs am
TemasTan dakavSirebiT hqondaT,
sruliad miuRebeli iyo. isini
ambobdnen, rom TiTqos beselias
interesSi iyo am kadrebis gavrceleba,
rom SemdegSi gmirad
warmoCeniliyo _ warmogidgeniaT,
ramdenad amoraluri unda
iyo adamiani, rom ase ifiqro?!
gava dro da yvelafers naTeli
moefineba, Tu am xelisuflebis
pirobebSi ara, sxva xelisuflebis
dros.
_ mas Semdeg, rac mosamarTleebis
Tema wina planze wamov-
ida, aqtiurad saubrobdnen, rom
beselia da „Zvelebi” saTavisod
iyenebdnen Temas, TiTqos sa-
marTlianobisTvis ibrZodnen.
amis sapirwoned ras ityviT?
_ „qarTuli ocneba” Tavisi
daarsebis dRidan samarTlianobisTvis
ibrZoda. es gamowveva ar
unda Secvliliyo. Tavis droze,
2014-2015 wlebSi, mosamarTleebis
mimarT gadadgmuli nabijebi,
romelic Tavad ivaniSvilma
gadadga, iyo gverdiT gadadgmuli
nabiji, ramac xalxSi gaurkvevloba
gamoiwvia. maSin aRmoCnda,
rom arcTu ise swor gzaze
mdgara „qarTuli ocneba”. rodesac
es wiTel xazad iqca, am gamyofma
xazma gamoiwvia gundSi gayofac.
Cemi azriT, qveyanaSi samarTlianobas
murusiZeebiT da
CinCalaZeebiT verasdros miaRwev,
radgan es adamianebi dakve-
TasTan arian asocirebulebi.
roca ori adamiani erTmaneTs
uCivis, iq, SesaZloa, saxelmwifo
interesebi ar ikveTebodes da
sasamarTlo samarTliani iyos.
aseTi gamonaklisebi miSas drosac
iyo. Cven viciT, rom, jerjerobiT,
arc erT gaxmaurebul
saqmeze sasamarTlos samarTliani
gadawyvetileba ar miuRia. saxelmwifos
swored Tavisi interesebis
gasatareblad sWirdeba es
adamianebi.
_ ambobT, rom saxelmwifos
Tavisi interesebisTvis sWird-
eba „murusiZe-CinCalaZeebi”. me
geubnebiT, rom SesaZloa, bese-
lias Tavisi gavlenebisTvis sWi-
rdeba sxva saxelebi da gvarebi.
amaze ras metyviT? es Cemi azri
ar aris, sazogadoebis didi nawilic
ambobs, rom beselias piradi
interesebi da sasamarTlos
gavlenis survili ikveTeba.
aqve SegaxsenebT, rom beselias
saxeli patimrebidan fu-
lis aRebas ukavSirdeba.
_ pirveli, rac yvelaze mniSvnelovania,
saubaria mosamarTleebis
uvadod daniSvnis SeCerebaze.
es imas niSnavs, rom saku-
Tari kadrebis daniSvnaze saubari
ar aris. Tu reformis mTavari
Semadgeneli nawilia iusticiis
umaRlesi skolis reformireba
da axali, Tanamedrove standartis
mosamarTleebis gamoSveba,
vin iqnebian, es winaswar aravin
icis. Tu beselia iseTi yovlis-
SemZlea, rom skolac Tavad daakompleqtos
da Semdeg vinc saWirod
miaCnia, is gaamwesos, mgoni,
cota gadaWarbebulia. es imdenad
gawelili procesia, mag
droisTvis SesaZloa, arc qalbatoni
eka iyos politikaSi da arc
bevri Cvengani. realurad, sasamarTlo
reforma 2025 wlamdea
gawerili. es iTqva kidec, rom
SegiZliaT, gaaCeroTo. Tu dRes
yvela mosamarTle uvadod dainiSna,
maSin raRa azri aqvs iusticiis
umaRlesi skolis reformirebas?!
maSin raRa azri aqvs
axali mosamarTleebis gazrdas,
Tu maTi dasaniSni adgilebi aRar
iqneba qveyanaSi?! Cven politikosebi
varT da, pirvel rigSi, sazogadoebis
dakveTa unda SevasruloT
da xalxis survili
avsaxoT kanonmdeblobaSi.
_ erTi ram cxadia, _ beseliam
sazogadoebis TvalSi avtoriteti
dakarga. aman xom ar ganapiroba,
rom ivaniSvili mis dis-
tancirebas cdilobs? aqtiurad
ganixilaven, _ ivaniSvilis sti-
lia periodulad konkretuli
wevrebisgan partiis gawmendao.
ramdenad aris es misTvis damax-
asiaTebeli?
_ ara mgonia, reputaciis Selaxvis
gamo damatovebines partia.
mec xom gadamwies, e. i. mxolod
gawmendis logika ar muSaobs.
vfiqrob, iuridiuli komitetis
Tavmjdomaris posti beseliam
zustad imitom datova, rom
sxdomis Catareba SeuZlebeli
gaxda. komitetis sxdoma rom
Catarebuliyo, mniSvneloba ar
N5 (266) 19.02-25.02.2019 w.
eqneboda komitetis daskvnas. es
veRar gaaCerebda plenarul sxdomaze
am mosamarTleebis siis
gayvanas. winasaaxalwlo periodi
iyo da damerwmuneT, aseT dros
adamianebi modunebulebi da sxva
Temebze gadarTulebi arian. Sesabamisad,
ityodnen, rom saswrafod
unda gaevloT es sakiTxi da
uceb miiRebdnen gadawyvetilebas,
rogorc xdeba xolme. xSir
SemTxvevaSi adamianebs saSualebas
ar aZleven, siRrmiseulad
Caixedon konkretul sakiTxSi.
saerTo CaTSi gamoagzavnidnen
mesijs, rom mniSvnelovani sakiTxia
da uceb unda mieRoT gadawyvetileba.
Sesabamisad, bevri
miscemda xmas, ase araerTxel
gaukeTebia „pativcemul” Tavmjdomares.
Tundac „sazogadoebriv
mauwyebelTan” mimarTebiT
iyo aseTi SemTxveva. beseliam
Tavisi gadadgomiT mosamarTleebis
daniSvnis es procesi SeaCera.
rogorc axla vxedavT, Turme,
yvela Tanaxma yofila, rom axali
kriteriumebi Camoyalibebuliyo,
Tumca manamde xmas ar
iRebdnen. Tu es kriteriumebi ar
arsebobda, maSin vis daniSvnas vapirebdiT?!
axla taSs ukraven,
Turme ra kargi procesi yofila,
kriteriumebi unda gavwero-
To, amis gareSe ras izamdnen _
ukriteriumod daniSnavdnen?! es
swored zerele damokidebulebasa
da TvalTmaqcobaze mianiSnebs.
Tu adamians reputacia aqvs
Selaxuli, mosamarTleebi ki ara,
veravin uSvelis. Cveni sazogadoeba
sakmaod maRali moralis
matarebelia, Tu vinmes rame eSleba,
amas Zalian kargad imaxsovrebs.
zogadad, kargi mexsiereba
gvaqvs, Tumca roca gvinda,
maSin SegviZlia daviviwyoT, magaliTad,
roca gvinda, adamians
axali Sansi mivceT. ara mgonia,
iseTi danaSaulebebi hqondes
vinmes, vinc axla am procesis
winaaRmdegia, rom es iyos gundidan
maTi gaSvebis meqanizmi da
amiT gundis gasufTavebis Sesa-
Zlebloba hqondeT. sruliad
absurdia is, rom, erTi mxriv,
aseT xalxs uSvebde da, meore
mxriv, imaT tovebde, vinc sazogadoebisTvis
miuRebelia.
_ dapirispirebis gamwvaveb-
is pirvel dReebSi beseliam
sazogadoebas gancda gauCina,
rom is raRac Zalian mniSvnelo-
vans ityoda. bevrma isic ifiqra,
rom ivaniSvilis winaaRmdegac
wavidoda, Tumca mas arc arafe-
ri uTqvams. gasagebia, rom es mi-
si politikuri taqtika iyo, Tu-
mca Tqveni gadmosaxedidan ro-
gor xsniT, beselia ukan misabr-
unebel gzas itovebs ivaniSvil-
Tan?
_ beseliam Tqva is, rac Tqva ,
ar mgonia, rom es ukan dasabrunebeli
gzis datoveba iyos. damijereT,
mas arc aravin agdebs.
Tu wamosvlas apirebs, ar vfiqrob,
rom axla vinmes imis saSualebas
miscems, ukan dasabrunebeli
gza daitovos, radgan es ukve
politikuri dapirispirebaa. aqedan
gamomdinare, Tu rame kidev
`kobaxiZem ganacxada: `germanelebma
meore msoflio omis Semdeg ifiqres
da gadawyvites, rom pasuxismgebloba
liderebisTvis daekisrebinaT da
mcire donis moxeleebisTvis, maT
Soris, mosamarTleebisTvis - ara~.
vfiqrob, es erT-erTi seriozuli
skandalis Temaa. germaneli eri
dRemde solidarul pasuxismgeblobas
grZnobda, am adamianma ki ise
gamoiyvana, TiTqos, iq araferi
momxdara. is TviTgvema, rasac
germaneli xalxi amdeni wlis
ganmavlobaSi eweva, kobaxiZis
gadasaxedidan, Turme, araferi
yofila. ar SeiZleba, sakuTar
qveyanaSic ki is msoflio tragedia
ise daapataravo da iseTi umniSvnelo
gaxado, rom saqarTveloSi mimdinare
procesebs Seadaro~
saTqmelia da dagrovilia, am yvelafris
Tqmas Tavisi etapebi da
dro aqvs. ar SeiZleba, Zalian ma-
Rali temperaturiT daiwyo da
mere qvemoT Camoxvide. duRilis
temperatura unda imatebdes da
ara klebulobdes. vxedavT, rom
sxva procesebi midis, dRes ukve
sakanonmdeblo iniciativebiT
mimdinareobs brZola. Tu sakanonmdeblo
iniciativebi CixSi
Seva, sazogadoebisa da xalxis
interesi ugulebelyofili iqneba,
ra Tqma unda, brZola sxva
formatSi gadava. Tu politika
parlamentSi ver lagdeba, Sesabamisad,
politika quCaSi gamodis.
swored amisTvis unda iyos
resursebi datovebuli da temperaturis
awevac am dros unda
moxdes.
_ beseliam amisTvis Seinaxa
mTavari skandali?
_ albaT, asea saWiro, radgan
misi mTavari saTqmeli rom eTqva
da darCeniliyo, alogikuri
iqneboda.
_ aqtiurad saubroben, rom
SesaZloa, beselia Tavis Tanamo-
azreebTan erTad „qarTul oc-
nebas” gamoeyos. rogorc misi
Tanamoazre da aqtiuri mxardam-
Weri, _ xedavT Tu ara mis gver-
diT sakuTar Tavs?
_ kidev erTxel xazgasmiT vityvi:
me Cemi gza avirCie. rodesac
parlamentSi deputatebis
garkveuli raodenoba iqneba, nebismieri
formati, rac Tanam-
Sromlobis saSualebas mogvcems,
ra Tqma unda, viTanamSromleb.
mimaCnia, rom sasamarTlo sakiTxebSi
maT sakmaod maRali kompetencia
aqvT, magram am qveyanaSi
ara mxolod sasamarTloa problema.
erT-erTi problematuria
ybadaRebuli sabanko sfero. am
nawilSi vinc CemTan iTanamSromlebs,
gamixardeba.
_ garkveul sakiTxebTan dakav
avSirebiT TanamSromloba ga-
sagebia, magram me gekiTxebiT,
beselias gundis wevrad momavalSi
sakuTar Tavs Tu moiaz-
rebT?
_ aravisze naklebi politikuri
gamocdileba da ambicia ar
gamaCnia, aqedan gamomdinare, veravis
gundis wevri veRar gavxdebi.
Cvens qveyanaSi naxevrad Camoyalibebuli
politikosebi arian.
isini mxolod da mxolod Teoriuli
da politikuri kuTxiT arian
ganviTarebulebi, mxolod es
ar aris sakmarisi, amas Zalian
cxovrebiseuli, praqtikuli gza
sWirdeba, rom adamianebis kargad
gesmodes. dRevandeli politikuri
speqtris warmomadgenlebi,
roca Cveni qveyana damoukidebeli
gaxda, maSin Zalian patarebi
iyvnen, iqidan ki pirdapir politikaSi
CaerTnen. unda icode,
rogor aaSeno damoukidebloba.
erTi da igive wreze vtrialebT,
Cveni gamowvevebi bolo 30 wlis
ganmavlobaSi ar Secvlila. yvelas
hqonda xelisuflebaSi yofnisa
da raimes Secvlis saSualeba,
Tumca SeZles warmatebiT Tavis
garTmeva?! rac Semexeba me,
vinmes gundSi yofnas didi xania,
Tavi davanebe.
_ Tqven TqviT, rom 30 welia,
erTi da igive wreze vtrialebT.
rogor fiqrobT, „qarTulma
ocnebam” ratom ver SeZlo am
wris garRveva _ resursi ar eyo,
Tu amis politikuri neba ar
iyo?
_ 2012 wlis dapirebebidan
romelime Seasrules? _ ara.
vfiqrob, mxolod saarCevno dapirebebi
Zalian cudi praqtikaa.
dapirebebs Sesruleba sWirdeba.
erTi ram zustad vici, _ Cems
amomrCevels 2016 wels 4-punqtiani
gegmis Sesrulebas ar vpirdebodi.
me vpirdebodi bankebTan
brZolas da am dapirebas vasruleb.
merwmuneT, 4 wlis Semdeg
bankebi im mdgomareobaSi aRar
iqnebian, raSic 2016 wels iyvnen.
„ocnebam” dapirebebi ar Seasrula,
mas iseTi mxardaWera hqonda,
rom nebismieri dapirebis Sesruleba
SeeZlo. realurad, saxelmwifosa
da xalxis vali gaizarda,
gasayidic aRaraferi dar-
Ca.
_ am gadmosaxedidan rogori
momavali aqvs im partias, rom-
lis wevric iyaviT?
_ „qarTul ocnebas” iseTive
momavali eqneba, rogoric „moqalaqeTa
kavSirs”. xelwera zustad
erTnairi aqvT _ sakuTar
TavSi Caketilebi, aravis naTqvami
ar esmodaT. vfiqrob, rogorc
„moqalaqeTa kavSiri” aRar
axsovs aravis, ise aRaravis emaxsovreba
„qarTuli ocneba”, Tu
ase gaagrZeles. 1 weli, Semodgoma,
_ es aris Zalian mniSvnelovani
TariRi, Torem am qveyanaSi
seriozulad daiwyeba deocnebizacia.
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